From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 02:37:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i217bgSd008605 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 02:37:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i217b5cP021173; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 00:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i217b3Kj068870; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 00:37:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i217b0Kj068807 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 00:37:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bee2.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.226]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 07F685EE06C for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:36:56 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001f01c3ff5f$fc9253d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:37:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] periods for pearls X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i217bgSd008605 Status: RO Hi, Forgot to tell you, that if you are interrested, i could send you a picture of the choker. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 07:59:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21CxRSd010032 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:59:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21CtWcP012409; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 05:55:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21CtVKj073529; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 05:55:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21CtSKk073492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 05:55:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i21Csd7j007918 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:54:39 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 07:54:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <404332C2.2040906@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 07:55:30 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Question References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO otsisto wrote: > Actually I was thinking of a different style of costume, later period than a > houppelaude. I don't recall having seen houppelaudes with pearls. Doesn't > mean that there wasn't just I have not come across them. Sorry; I got two discussions conflated. Right, I've never seen houps with all-over pearls either. About the most they tend to have is one decorated sleeve. One. Delightfully silly. (I believe when beading was used, it would be in actual shapes, and not just dots all over; something that seems to escape some embellishers in the SCA.) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 09:29:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21ETuSd011722 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:29:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21ETGcP017370; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:29:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21ETDKj008241; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:29:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21ET9Kj008126 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:29:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i21ESuT22777.; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:28:56 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:28:56 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:28:34 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Odd costume-related question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> jauncourt@verizon.net 28/02/04 20:04:59 >>> wrote... [snip] >So, has anyone out there seen references to shawls or other accessories >being used to carry baby in either Early Modern Europe or the Colonies? How about Rembrandt's "Beggars receiving alms at the door of a house" - see http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/r/rembran/graphics/etching/index.html ? Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 10:55:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21FtSSd012187 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:55:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21Fq4cP023948; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:52:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21FpsKj051821; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:51:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14004.mail.yahoo.com (web14004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i21FpqKj051790 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:51:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040301155152.95700.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 15:51:52 GMT Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:51:52 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] popular periods for pearls To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001001c3ff5f$487db600$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would like to see that please. --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hello Elizabeth. > At the exhibition on Castle Rosenborg here in > Copenhagen about the Queens Dresses, there was a > kind of Choker or what ever you would call it. A > heavily beaded piece to cover the decolletage. It > was a piece that Caroline Mathilde actually made > herself, she was our queen in 1766. > Many kinds of beads was used in this piece, multi > coloured. I also noticed some long beads, like > suction pipes. > So it was used in 18th. century. > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 10:59:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21FxTSd012217 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:59:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21FtScP024221; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:55:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21FtOKj053795; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:55:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i21FtMKj053766 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:55:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040301155312.42042.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 15:53:12 GMT Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:53:12 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.amiperiodornot.com ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 11:07:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21G70Sd012249 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:07:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21G5BcP025213; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:05:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21G58Kj059988; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:05:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21G55Kk059946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:05:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i21G4F7j008324 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:04:15 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:04:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40435F33.6070708@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:05:07 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. References: <20040301155312.42042.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040301155312.42042.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: > http://www.amiperiodornot.com I read it too -- some of the comments are useful, but a great many are extremely harsh or plain ill-informed. And then there are the folks who post naked women or men in bad quality chain mail. But some of the images posted are really great, particularly the pre-1400s stuff, which is all too often ignored in the SCA (the Elizabethan and so on get more of the attention). -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 11:26:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21GQhSd012307 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:26:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21GPvcP028495; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:25:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21GPrKj074136; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:25:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14001.mail.yahoo.com (web14001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i21GPjKj074075 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:25:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040301162539.72537.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:25:39 GMT Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:25:39 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a painting To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <003701c3fd6d$ee332e20$1d64a8c0@algx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.geocities.com/ailithmac/portraits.html There are 2 portraits of Eleonora de Toldeo wearing pearled partlets. --- Cyn Bucheger wrote: > I need to find a painting pretty quick that is > similar to this one, in that > the lady is wearing one of these pearled partlets. > The one in particular > that I am looking for the lady is wearing a necklace > of simple garnet beads > with a large pendent. I've made the partlet, and > would like to have a > necklace similar to the garnet one, but can't for > the life of me remember > what the pendent was or what it looked like. > > Thanks for any help > Cyn > > http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/c/p-clouet5.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 11:27:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21GRlSd012315 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:27:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21GQocP028681; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:26:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21GQkKj074927; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:26:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav73.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21GQjKj074861 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:26:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:09:23 -0800 Received: from 24.58.109.191 by bay1-dav73.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:09:23 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.109.191] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040301155312.42042.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> <40435F33.6070708@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:09:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2004 16:09:23.0893 (UTC) FILETIME=[901CBE50:01C3FFA7] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah sadly I'm boycotting AIPON until something can be done over the flaming. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. > Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: > > > http://www.amiperiodornot.com > > I read it too -- some of the comments are useful, but a great many are > extremely harsh or plain ill-informed. And then there are the folks who > post naked women or men in bad quality chain mail. > > But some of the images posted are really great, particularly the > pre-1400s stuff, which is all too often ignored in the SCA (the > Elizabethan and so on get more of the attention). > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > Vote early, vote often! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 11:32:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21GWKSd012335 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:32:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21GSDcP029124; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:28:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21GS1Kj075916; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:28:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21GRrKj075802 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:27:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.150] (pm5-150.eos.net [205.133.149.150]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21GRgx0022101; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:27:43 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:27:43 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: , Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200403011555.i21FtnKk054034@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: babywearing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 3/1/04 10:55 AM,Kate Bunting at h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > How about Rembrandt's "Beggars receiving alms at the door of a house" - > see http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/r/rembran/graphics/etching/index.html > ? > That is an interesting sketch. The lady has strange, button-on oversleeves. I've never seen anything like that before, but I don't look at that period much. The baby looks adorable, but the fabric sling/backpack/whatever doesn't actually seem to attach to the lady, whose bodice (as far as I can tell) looks completely normal. No bulging, bunching, knotted/tied/laced/buttoned sling. It looks to me as if Rembrandt didn't want to draw the attaching part. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 11:40:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21GekSd012360 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:40:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21GbRcP000968; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:37:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21GbNKj083306; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:37:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21GbLKj083284 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:37:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.150] (pm5-150.eos.net [205.133.149.150]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21GRgx0022101; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:27:43 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:27:43 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: , Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200403011555.i21FtnKk054034@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: babywearing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 3/1/04 10:55 AM,Kate Bunting at h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > How about Rembrandt's "Beggars receiving alms at the door of a house" - > see http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/r/rembran/graphics/etching/index.html > ? > That is an interesting sketch. The lady has strange, button-on oversleeves. I've never seen anything like that before, but I don't look at that period much. The baby looks adorable, but the fabric sling/backpack/whatever doesn't actually seem to attach to the lady, whose bodice (as far as I can tell) looks completely normal. No bulging, bunching, knotted/tied/laced/buttoned sling. It looks to me as if Rembrandt didn't want to draw the attaching part. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 11:49:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21GnaSd012390 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:49:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21GmscP002960; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:48:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21GmqKj091631; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:48:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9404.mail.yahoo.com (web9404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i21GmlKj091589 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:48:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040301164847.17402.qmail@web9404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:48:46 PST Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:48:46 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <40435F33.6070708@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I thought there were a lot of very good looking outfits---and I also agree --that some of the comments seemed very harsh or ill -informed. The little ones dressed up were particularly charming! Albra Cynthia Virtue wrote: Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: > http://www.amiperiodornot.com I read it too -- some of the comments are useful, but a great many are extremely harsh or plain ill-informed. And then there are the folks who post naked women or men in bad quality chain mail. But some of the images posted are really great, particularly the pre-1400s stuff, which is all too often ignored in the SCA (the Elizabethan and so on get more of the attention). -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 11:52:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21GqZSd012407 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:52:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21GpocP003403; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:51:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21GpnKj093767; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:51:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21GpkKj093679 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:51:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 531CB42615 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:05:14 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40436BE3.2010007@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 10:59:15 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. References: <20040301155312.42042.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> <40435F33.6070708@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <40435F33.6070708@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: > >> http://www.amiperiodornot.com > > > I read it too -- some of the comments are useful, but a great many are > extremely harsh or plain ill-informed. And then there are the folks who > post naked women or men in bad quality chain mail. I agree with that, and am not likely to post pics of anything of my own. It's difficult to really judge authenticity of something from a flat pic, you can't see the fabric well at all, or how the layers work. Despite the acidity of many of the comments, if you read them long enough you start to see trends. Outfits without hats or sleeves seems to be a big button-pusher. Mixing elements from different periods, or fanatsy elements is another, as is wrong/lack of accessories. > > But some of the images posted are really great, particularly the > pre-1400s stuff, which is all too often ignored in the SCA (the > Elizabethan and so on get more of the attention). Agree with that too. I do like to go cruise for ideas and to just see what other people are making and wearing. Even with the internet I sometimes feel very cut off from the rest of the costuming community. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 12:32:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21HWNSd012729 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:32:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21HVMcP009256; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:31:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21HVIKj023840; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:31:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out007.verizon.net (out007pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21HVFKl023804 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:31:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jauncourt@verizon.net) Received: from verizon.net ([4.12.175.251]) by out007.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040301172501.FGHI28276.out007.verizon.net@verizon.net> for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:25:01 -0600 Message-ID: <404371F7.7060000@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:25:11 -0600 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-CA; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en, en-ca MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Odd costume-related question References: <200403011555.i21FtnKk054034@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out007.verizon.net from [4.12.175.251] at Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:25:01 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: "Kate M Bunting" wrote: > How about Rembrandt's "Beggars receiving alms at the door of a house" >- see >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/r/rembran/graphics/etching/index.html Thanks! this is wonderful. I fugured it was something so commonplace as to be considered uninteresting, and possibly something done only by the poor. This does help to bear that out. M. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 12:48:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21Hm5Sd012815 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:48:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21Hk7cP010581; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:46:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21Hk5Kj034560; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:46:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i21Hk1Kj034513 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:46:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sarah@modehistorique.com) Received: from unknown (HELO modehistorique.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@69.104.41.11 with plain) by smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2004 17:46:01 -0000 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:45:57 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of Catherine Parr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200402292233.20818.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-Id: <4B60B2D8-6BA8-11D8-9530-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I should clarify. I was speaking about Starkey's television specials, not his books. I'm sure others will be swift to disagree with me on this point as well, but hey. That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it. ;) Sarah http://www.modehistorique.com On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 07:33 PM, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > On Friday 27 February 2004 12:50 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: >>> That's really what bugs me about Starkey. He's very sensationalistic >>> and he makes his subjects sound as though they were nothing more than >>> sex-crazed drama queens. I can understand wanting to "sex things up" >>> for a modern audience, but to me, Starkey often crosses the line and >>> winds up sounding like a salacious old man who thinks every woman >>> back >>> in the Renaissance was solely concerned with what was going on >>> between >>> her legs. Either that or they're portrayed as airheads... >> >> Interesting. I just finished Starkey's 6 wives and it was the first >> time I'd seen any of the queens (with the exception of K. Parr) >> depicted as anything but stupid or airhead or sex maniacs. > > ????? The only queen I've ever seen depicted as stupid *or* a sex > maniac was > Catherine Howard--who arguably was both anyway. > > Either way, though, it sounds like Starkey's Six Wives is worth > reading. > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven > Wright > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _________________________________________________ http://www.elizabethanlady.com "Those who are willing to sacrifice their basic liberties to assure their security deserve neither..." Benjamin Franklin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 12:52:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21Hq8Sd012825 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:52:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21HpOcP011118; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:51:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21HpMKj038325; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:51:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scc075.its.state.nc.us (scc075.its.state.nc.us [207.4.22.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21HpGKj038204 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:51:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Ellen.Dappert@ncmail.net) Received: from scc075.its.state.nc.us (127.0.0.1) by scc075.its.state.nc.us (6.5.029) id 401CD43E00155630 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:51:11 -0500 Received: from ncmail.net (207.4.90.6) by scc075.its.state.nc.us (6.5.029) id 401CD43B0015028E for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:51:10 -0500 Message-ID: <40437828.57EBABA3@ncmail.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 12:51:36 -0500 From: Ellen Dappert Organization: NC-DJJDP / District 26 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200402291428.i1TER9Kk094437@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:busks, stomachers and bulges X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am the one with the wrinkled- 18 cent front. In reading through the responses, and thinking out my alternatives, I'm beginning to think I have several issues going on. One is that my present stays are front-and-back laced. My old stays were back-only laced. While the front and back laced are tremendously more wearable for me, in addition to being convenient and adjustable, more of me bulges out. Even when I lace edge to edge in the front (Remember, I could kindly be described a plump little woman) All through this last season, I have been thinking BUSK? as a solution to the problem, but haven't gotten to actually making or buying one (the wonderful man from Wooded Hamlet who has ribbons and tapes now makes busks and they are reasonably priced as are all his goods) Mia Dappert of HM 64th In Charlotte, NC _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 13:04:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21I4GSd012881 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:04:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21I29cP012257; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:02:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21I25Kj046724; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:02:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21I1pKj046545 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:01:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.130.133]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC5956A63D for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:01:40 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 10:01:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of Catherine Parr Message-ID: <40430A0F.8039.1868C86A@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <200403010019.17422.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <9e.4887dac.2d7416d4@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > And there are so many different views about almost > every > topic with regard to the Tudors, I think the only way to > develop a really > balanced opinion, is to read 'em all! LOL > > > That's usually what I end up doing with any historical area I become > interested in--read as much of what's out there as I can get my hands > on. :-) Amen to that! But the ones I pay the most attention to are the ones which support their opinions with things like the Letters and Papers which were written at the same time as the actions were occurring (as opposed to those written 30 years later or those written by Victorians or other historians, which so many of the books seem to do.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 13:06:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21I6QSd012888 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:06:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21I5ScP012577; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:05:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21I5PKj049358; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:05:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f29.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21I5NKj049270 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:05:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:48:00 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:48:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:48:00 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2004 17:48:00.0280 (UTC) FILETIME=[568DC180:01C3FFB5] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: tudor shoes II X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Hilary Davidson >now that I'm with the program and have read the rest of yesterday's >digest, sorry to double up on Marc's info! I'll go back to lurking in >my fog of deadlines now.... Honestly, I think you posted before I did on this one, and since at any given time we never know who's lurking or not, it's a good idea to post anyway -- I just want to know why THIS message (dated Feb 19th didn't show up in my digest until today (Mar 1). These are the vagaries of email, I suppose. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 13:28:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21ISHSd012997 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:28:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21IMfcP014407; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:22:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21IMaKj061658; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:22:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21IMVKj061586 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:22:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 154611D250 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:22:28 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p360.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.106]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1C645C510 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:22:22 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:22:33 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <40435F33.6070708@thibault.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is this a site that one needs to be a member to access? De Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: > http://www.amiperiodornot.com -costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 13:30:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21IU5Sd013007 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:30:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21ITFcP015209; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:29:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21ITCKj066615; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:29:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21IT7Kk066553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:29:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i21ISF7j008836 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:28:15 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:28:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <404380EF.2080507@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:29:03 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO otsisto wrote: > Is this a site that one needs to be a member to access? Nope. It is, however, on limited bandwidth, so if it's not loading for you, try again later. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 13:38:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21IcRSd013054 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:38:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21IbWcP016098; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:37:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21IbUKj072588; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:37:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21IbNKj072479 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:37:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.228]) by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (v93.12) with ESMTP id RELAYIN10-b404382d722e; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:37:11 -0500 Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.14.) id 6.17.432b19ea (24895) for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:31:55 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <17.432b19ea.2d74db9b@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:31:55 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:busks, stomachers and bulges To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/1/2004 12:52:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ellen.Dappert@ncmail.net writes: > (Remember, I could > kindly be described a plump little woman) > An asset when being corseted...IMHO. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 13:55:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21ItVSd013116 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:55:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21IsicP017996; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:54:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21IsdKj085200; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:54:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aardvark.edurostream.com (aardvark.edurostream.com [12.17.11.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21Is6Kj084757 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:54:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sue@victorianmillinery.com) Received: from D7W6QR21 (ddu138-66.xecu.net [216.127.138.66]) by aardvark.edurostream.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 6.0.6) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:47:03 -0500 Message-ID: <002101c3ffbd$1f612d70$428a7fd8@D7W6QR21> From: "Sue" To: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:43:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] waists on ebay X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have put up 5 beautifull waists on ebay. Cordially, Sue Shatto 401 Fairview Ave Frederick, MD 21701 http:\\www.VictorianMillinery.com 301-694-8950 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 14:11:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21JBYSd013199 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:11:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21J8BcP019472; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:08:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21J87Kj094719; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:08:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14009.mail.yahoo.com (web14009.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i21J82Kj094684 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:08:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040301190802.10313.qmail@web14009.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14009.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 19:08:02 GMT Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:08:02 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <404380EF.2080507@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO i think everyone on the list visited it today because its running really slow. --- Cynthia Virtue wrote: > otsisto wrote: > > > Is this a site that one needs to be a member to > access? > > Nope. > > It is, however, on limited bandwidth, so if it's not > loading for you, > try again later. http://www.amiperiodornot.com > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 14:15:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21JFiSd013223 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:15:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21JDecP020013; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:13:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21JDZKj098432; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:13:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21JDXKj098352 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:13:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 774924 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:13:27 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:13:26 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040301190802.10313.qmail@web14009.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i21JDXKj098352 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd be happy for slow; I've been trying off and on since 8:30 PST and still can't get on. I try to check it out once a month but it's been a few months since I looked. Last time, my brother-in-law was voted best costume. That was a big chuckle in the family. LynnD On 3/1/04 11:08 AM, "Catalina Saravia Quicedo" wrote: > i think everyone on the list visited it today because > its running really slow. > > > --- Cynthia Virtue > wrote: >> otsisto wrote: >> >>> Is this a site that one needs to be a member to >> access? >> >> Nope. >> >> It is, however, on limited bandwidth, so if it's not >> loading for you, >> try again later. > http://www.amiperiodornot.com > >> >> -- >> Cynthia Virtue and/or >> Cynthia du Pré Argent >> >> > > ===== > Señora Catalina > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 14:42:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21JgeSd013317 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:42:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21JePcP022863; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:40:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21JeKKj017973; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:40:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21JeHKj017926 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:40:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-34-186.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.34.186]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21JdH5T000435 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:39:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040301112840.00dc4680@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:28:52 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] waists on ebay In-Reply-To: <002101c3ffbd$1f612d70$428a7fd8@D7W6QR21> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Where? >I have put up 5 beautifull waists on ebay. >Cordially, >Sue Shatto >401 Fairview Ave >Frederick, MD 21701 >http:\\www.VictorianMillinery.com >301-694-8950 > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 15:48:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21KmZSd013655 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:48:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21KkCcP029463; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:46:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21Kk2Kj077019; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:46:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:DYovCbiawc0NU5+r9jRW9yRv1JMulGIa@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21KjsKj076945 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:45:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i21KjqNH009956 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:45:53 -0500 Message-Id: <200403012045.i21KjqNH009956@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:45:41 -0000 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mid 18th c. busks and stomachers From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Stevie, >Indeed, but by definition a book published 50 years ago, before even >the Kyoto Costume Institute existed, can hardly have reflected the >holdings of that museum. Norah Waugh died in 1966, also long before >the foundation of the KCI. I'm not sure what you mean here. I was suggesting Corsets & Crinolines as a source for more examples of stays. I didn't think C&C had drafts of any of the stays in Kyoto, I think they are from English collections. >No, it doesn't. Incidentally, Norah Waugh gives the diagram etc. of >'corps a l'anglaise' under the heading "Eighteenth-century Tailors' >and Dressmakers' Patterns' at page 107 The Cut of Women's Clothes, >No.12 at the top of the page. I found the Diderot plates here: http://www.contouche.de/en/1700/schnitte/s1700a.shtml The web page identifies the English stays as closed front, and there is a set of open-front French stays, which are both front & back lacing. Diderot did illustrate other stays that are not on this page, so maybe you're citing a different plate. >Actually, what I said was 'I think [it] was reasonably common practise >judging from my research so far'. Right, and I wondered about that because I and other researchers think that front-lacing-only was uncommon. There are a few examples, certainly enough that making stays that way is correct. Most people I know are looking for what was the most common or average when making repro clothing. >My question was as to the statistical basis of any sampling exercise; >peoples' conclusions are not relevant to that question. But I should, >of course, be most interested in any published research you can point >me to on the question of aristocratic womens' stays in England during >the relevant period. If you want to hear more about what is out there in other books, museums, and private collections, I still recommend the 18cWoman list. Most listmembers focus on American costume of the 1770s, but have looked at earlier & later examples. As a colony of England, the prevailing fashion in America was the same, both from imported goods and fashion magazines that came from England. I think it would be interesting to take a survey of what the listmembers have studied; we did something similar with printed textiles a couple years ago. It would be nice if you would introduce the topic to the list, otherwise I may ask about it. Back to front-lacing stays - the main disadvantage of front lacing stays is you don't have the horizontal bones that give such a nice rounded shape at the top. The effect is most pronounced in the 1780s, but the horizontal bones were used earlier. My favorite draft is from Corsets & Crinolies, a mid-century set of stays that lace both front & back, with a stomacher as part of the stays. Bjarne described another set of extant stays he saw that were made this way. The stomacher has horizontal bones, and the stays themselves are easily adjusted both for size changes and the position of the straps. The back can be drawn tight and the front looser for that pulled-back shoulder look, or the opposite to make them less restrictive to wear. They're great for long-term use. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 15:53:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21Kr6Sd013677 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:53:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21KnTcP029752; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:49:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21KnSKj079494; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:49:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav34.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21KnQKj079413 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:49:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:31:57 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav34.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:31:57 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040301155312.42042.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com><40435F33.6070708@thibault.org> <40436BE3.2010007@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:32:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2004 20:31:57.0462 (UTC) FILETIME=[3DF89B60:01C3FFCC] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >> http://www.amiperiodornot.com > > I read it too -- some of the comments are useful, but a great many are > > extremely harsh or plain ill-informed. And then there are the folks who > > post naked women or men in bad quality chain mail. > Despite the acidity of many of the comments, if you read them long > enough you start to see trends. Outfits without hats or sleeves seems to > be a big button-pusher. Mixing elements from different periods, or > fanatsy elements is another, as is wrong/lack of accessories. What puts me off is the comments along the lines of wanting to ram from behind or saying someone looks gay. I'm not ever going to post there. I don't mind criticism, but I'm not about to put myself through reading some of those things about myself. I was disgusted enough reading them about other people! Now I very rarely read comments, I mostly just look at pictures. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 16:13:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21LCxSd013791 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:12:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21LBwcP002136; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:11:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21LBqKj095891; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:11:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out014.verizon.net (out014pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21LBmKj095840 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:11:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp ([4.62.21.200]) by out014.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040301205318.HNGO5247.out014.verizon.net@brandyscomp>; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:53:18 -0600 Message-ID: <027301c3ffcf$3a97dcd0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> From: "Brandy Deming" To: "Historic Costume List" , "SCA Costumes" Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:53:18 -0800 Organization: Better Times for Small Business MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out014.verizon.net from [4.62.21.200] at Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:53:18 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] My fortune is now gone.... LOL X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i21LCxSd013791 Status: RO Went to the sewing expo this weekend in puyallup, wa. What great fun. I especially enjoyed all the diversity of the craft. The booth that got my fortune this year was Vogue Fabric. High quality, designer fabric at VERY reasonable prices (some as little as $3.99 a yard, most around 5-7.99 a yard). Their website is http://www.voguefabricsstore.com/ Id appreciate any other fabric deal sites too!!! :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 16:35:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21LZPSd013969 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:35:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21LXBcP004433; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:33:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21LX6Kj011625; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:33:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21LX1Kj011478 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:33:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bee2.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.226]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id F3493262895 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:32:55 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <009f01c3ffd4$cfca09e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:33:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] silk ribbon embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i21LZPSd013969 Status: RO Hi, I have tryed very hard to find any informations about when silk ribbon embroidery was invented. A swedish website told me that it was used in the end of 18th century, for gentlemens waistcoats and jackets. It also told me that there were examples to se at Nordiska Musset in Stockholm. I know this is a little hassardious job i have done, but i absolutely fell in love with this embroidery and started to make myself a waistcoat: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm I now have 9 days to make the right side of the waistcoat + 2 pocket flaps and assembly of the waistcoat. I simply wont go without this waistcoat. Travelling to the gustavians in Sweden next thursday. Does any of you know how old silk ribbon embroidery is? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 17:54:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21MsCSd014326 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:54:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21MoZcP012055; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:50:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21MoTKj068778; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:50:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i21MoOKj068684 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:50:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VClLxuto+JJDzo5EsqoQ1L7YZKA7+vb3XRw==">; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:50:15 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JPNYYXZB; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:50:15 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:46:07 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] My fortune is now gone.... LOL Message-ID: <20040301.164607.-457085.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-8,10-24 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: antir-costumers@antir.sca.org, h-costume@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ha! You think you've got it bad? I used to live only 2 miles away from their flagship store in Evanston, Illinois and I still live only about 4 miles from their 'outlet' store (small but enthusiastic) in Lansing, Illinois. A truly evil place....EVIL I tell you! Karen On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:53:18 -0800 "Brandy Deming" writes: > Went to the sewing expo this weekend in puyallup, wa. What great fun. > I especially enjoyed all the diversity of the craft. The booth that > got my fortune this year was Vogue Fabric. High quality, designer > fabric at VERY reasonable prices (some as little as $3.99 a yard, > most around 5-7.99 a yard). > Their website is http://www.voguefabricsstore.com/ > > Id appreciate any other fabric deal sites too!!! :) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 18:05:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21N5oSd014385 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:05:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21N4lcP014586; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:04:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21N4eKj078480; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:04:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i21N4cKj078458 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:04:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BCFD1CF8E for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:04:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p078.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.216.80]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id F2385C5ED for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:04:36 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:04:51 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I finally got on the site. Fascinating! Was only able to browse a bit but have not found the harsh comments people have spoken of. Though it does say that some AOL person's comments have been removed. Thank you for introducing me to this site. Arian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 20:14:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i221ESSd014762 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:14:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i221CPcf024756; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:13:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2216AKj052624; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:06:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zinc.btinternet.com (zinc.btinternet.com [194.73.73.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22167Kj052597 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:06:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stevie.gamble@btinternet.com) Received: from [81.129.139.49] (helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1AxswO-0004lF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 19:19:00 +0000 Message-ID: <009001c3ffc2$4ffc9f00$318b8151@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200402291428.i1TER9Kk094437@net.indra.com> <40437828.57EBABA3@ncmail.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:busks, stomachers and bulges Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:20:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mia wrote: > I am the one with the wrinkled- 18 cent front. Thank you; I've now managed to turn up your original post! > In reading through the responses, and thinking out my alternatives, I'm beginning to think I have several issues going on. > > One is that my present stays are front-and-back laced. My old stays were back-only laced. While the front and back laced are tremendously more wearable for me, in addition to being convenient and adjustable, more of me bulges out. Even when I lace edge to edge in the front (Remember, I could > kindly be described a plump little woman) I think that one aspect is that female fronts tend to be more squishy than female backs, if that makes sense. The front lacing stays at Kyoto seem to have a wide flap which extends behind the lacing, and I intend to put one on mine when I put the lining in. I'm assuming that even if the flap wasn't boned it would have been made of serviceable and reasonably stout fabric, which allows a smoother line. It also would make smoothing the chemise under the stays rather easier, which I think is important. > All through this last season, I have been thinking BUSK? as a solution to the problem, >but haven't gotten to actually making or buying one (the wonderful man from Wooded >Hamlet who has ribbons and tapes now makes busks and they are reasonably priced as >are all his goods) Well, I should be interested to know how that turns out. The flap I mentioned above could be made to have a pocket in it for a busk... Going on to other aspects mentioned in your original post; you were quoting from Joanna Hobbins: >'in fact, the shape of the corset may be taken from the > dress bodice pattern' my understanding, at least so far, is that the stays would have been used as a foundation to drape the bodice rather than the other way around. This would make a substantial difference, I think. Nora Waugh suggests that the bodice would have been lined with a firm unbleached linen, which should minimise wrinkling. Cotton would be more problematical. Also, have you boned the bodice at all? Again, the bodice of a robe a l'anglaise may have been boned as well as the stays. I don't know if you have 'Fashion' by the Kyoto Costume Institute; there is a particularly good example of large pictures of a 1770 English polonaise at pages 80, 82-3 and 84-5 which had 5 bones in the bodice back. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be on the website. There is a 1780 robe a l'anglaise shown at page 89, which is boned at the centre back; this is on the website: 'White, pink and green striped Lyons silk satin; sabot sleeves; fastened at the front with hooks, compère style; boned at center-back. Inv. AC1926 79-1-78 The url isn't very helpful http://www.kci.or.jp/collection/collset-e.html and the picture shows the front, not back, but at least it is an indication that the 1770 gown isn't a one-off:-) I look forward to hearing more about your project, and indeed, to seeing your ensemble when you come to England next year! best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 20:44:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i221iaSd014830 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:44:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i221TXcP025739; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:29:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i221SqKj063986; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:28:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i221SkKk063937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:28:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i221UR8v031578 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:30:27 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i221URF4031576 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:30:27 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of Catherine Parr Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:30:27 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <9e.4887dac.2d7416d4@aol.com> <40430A0F.8039.1868C86A@localhost> In-Reply-To: <40430A0F.8039.1868C86A@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403012030.27008.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 01 March 2004 01:01 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > And there are so many different views about almost > > every > topic with regard to the Tudors, I think the only way to > > develop a really > balanced opinion, is to read 'em all! LOL > > > > > > That's usually what I end up doing with any historical area I become > > interested in--read as much of what's out there as I can get my hands > > on. :-) > > Amen to that! If only because I never have any idea how to find the best sources directly. :-) > > But the ones I pay the most attention to are the ones which support > their opinions with things like the Letters and Papers which were > written at the same time as the actions were occurring (as opposed to > those written 30 years later or those written by Victorians or other > historians, which so many of the books seem to do.) Agreed. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 20:50:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i221nvSd014841 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:50:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i221ZScP026078; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:35:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i221ZRKj066970; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:35:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i221VEKk065066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:31:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i221Ww8v031619 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:32:58 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i221WwHU031617 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:32:58 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:32:57 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403012032.57762.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 01 March 2004 01:22 pm, otsisto wrote: > Is this a site that one needs to be a member to access? Nope, not at all. But it has been flaky today for some reason. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 20:50:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i221oNSd014846 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:50:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i221aUcP026157; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:36:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i221aTKj067497; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:36:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i221Y2Kk066309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:34:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i221XA7j011814 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:33:10 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:33:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4043E48C.3000805@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:34:04 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO otsisto wrote: > I finally got on the site. Fascinating! Was only able to browse a bit but > have not found the harsh comments people have spoken of. Here's two examples for those of you who are curious but can't get to the site; mine and a recent one by someone else: I posted a picture of me in one of my middle-class hat attempts, to see if people posting were at least warned that comments could be stupid/rude/ignorant, which I think would be only fair. (answer: no; I did send a note to that effect to the webmistress, who participates in many costume email lists.) Below is my description, the votes so far, and all the comments. If you want to see the photo, follow the links. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Description: Middle-class outfit; see source [see picture]. Wool gown over linen shift and kirtle, can't see them of course. That's a repro pin holding neckline closed. With 20/400+ eyesight, chose to use glasses despite. Permanent link to vote page: http://amiperiodornot.com/?image_id=322 Permanent link to details page: http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=322 Average vote: 7.2 Vote breakdown: 1 (1) 2 (2) 3 (1) 4 (3) 5 (22) 6 (10) 7 (14) 8 (24) 9 (19) 10 (14) Comments: While I love your interpretation, I'm giving you a 7. Linen should be finer, with more creases, pin should be bigger, top veil should be arranged differently. This is mostly because you are trying to emulate the refernce image. Otherwise - FANTASTIC! MdeJ i agree- veil top should be arranged differently. and honestly, you could be wearing bellbottoms and snowboots, and none of us would know- please show the whole costume next time! i cant just judge on the hat. WAhhh. Try voting on what you can see As I can only see the wimple and veil, that's all I'm commenting on. I'll give a 7, because I strongly feel that you should have a lighter linen. I do like the effect you have achieved. It frames your face nicely. ms154{at}cornell.edu anyone who bitches about glasses can bite me. I would -love- to hear from you about how you built this headgear - I've tried myself and not done so well. alia 'at' swcp.com have to agree you need a finer linen, and cant see the dress For portrait, you might have taken glasses off rather than make excuses. You strongly resemble the model in the original! Hems on your wimple/veil too heavy. More likely cut and glue-finished. Linen should be finer weight, should completely cover hair, look at source... I think the wimple/vieling is great, I too would suggest perhaps silk gauze? if you can't find thin enough linen? I love how it looks and the top of the gown is great I can see that you took from the pic and you are not saying it is a complete 'copy'. I suspect the original's hairline is plucked so I'm not bothered by seeing your hair, though I do thin the whole assemblage should sit a wee bit more forward. And, yes, lighter veil. 8 I assume the phot was a candid, hence the glasses on. I think this is about an 8, but I'm giving you a 10 to make up for the person who apparently doesn't know you need glasses to _see_. I'd love a period cite for "glue finish." Extant piece or text cite, not conjecture. What a wonderful hat! Yours seems longer than the original, any reason why? Perhaps it should be starched a bit more to retain the top center creases? -Alienor Colours too dark remarkably well done. Kudos to you! Love it! Wanna see it full-length! Creases would fall out of linen as it went through the day . I'm not requireing plucked hairlines for high marks. And I can't see without my glasses either! This ROCKS! Good try, but not quite there yet. Get some lighter weight linen for the veil, get the hair under control And get a deeper "V" on the neckline. But a very good start. Poster speaking: you can see info on this hat-draft at http://www.virtue.to under middle class hat. you have heard the call for lighter linen nice hat. gives a period feel to be sure, but try to obscure hairline a bit more Judging soley on the hat: It could be the picture but the material in the picture is much thinner than yours. Her hair doesn't show but I'm sure thats because she's plucked it back, I understand why you wouldn't want to shave or pluck back your hairline neato! doesn't seem to fall off your head in quite the same way, and would be better in a very fine crisp linen (can see fold marks in painting). I love the pins! close to perfect! In fact, it probably is perfect, I just don't do that time period. An 9 only becaue of the glasses and the hair. Superb Glasses? Wonderful job. I always love your hats. Very nice, huzzah! Perfect! Bad vision/Doctor's orders are always period in my opinion. 10 very good facsimile I know you need the glasses, but if you are having the photo taken, please remove them for a moment. Otherwise, perfect! This is inspiring. I join the call for lighter linen and glue-finished hems, but the hang is still excellent! I think your veil needs some starch. nicely done, good reproduction Dress is not quite the same as picture, but not wrong for the period. adn we all know medical aids are invisible. pity you couldn't hide all your hair like original. 10 anyway Elizabeth_Beaumont(at)livinghistory.co.uk Glasses people glasses! How long does it take to remove them for a photo? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here's one that got more heated: Description: Silk dress und underdress, hand woven. 12th century. Short hair :-( Permanent link to vote page: http://amiperiodornot.com/?image_id=569 Permanent link to details page: http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=569 Average vote: 4.7 Vote breakdown: 1 (5) 2 (4) 3 (4) 4 (2) 5 (8) 6 (5) 7 (6) 8 (0) 9 (1) 10 (2) Comments: this has no resemblance to what I would call 12th century, but perhaps you have data to prove your right? the veil is a strange fabric and is draped in a modern way. Silk dresses and no jewelry, strange huge belt with mishmash of ornaments? This would be an attempt at a bliaut, right? Love the fabric and the dresses embellishment, Can we see a stand up? Bodice might need a tighter fit... Princess Buttercup? Shows way too much Skin, Style is more fairy tale then Medieval, belt looks like a childrens toy, go and read some oeriod books maid... AND: Next time, use Photoshop to remove the kissing marks on your shoulder... Neckline wrong. Veil wrong. Hair wrong, but if veil was worn correctly, who would know?, Belt wrong, This just isn't 12th century except in bad movies Beautiful - would look much better with good veil arrangement, though. the neckline is way too low. you need a wimple and better veil arrangement. i think the belt is ok. Color is luscious and very appropriate for a noblewoman. I would suggest that the neckline too scooped, the veil and hair arrangement completely modern, and the plaque belt doesn't quite work . Look at more period examples. Lovely fit and overall look. Headress as said, belt is more 14th century, neckline too low but sleeves are actually pretty good. What is handwoven? I don't believe the fabric is but it looks like maybe your trim is? Do tell! 6 Pretty but screams Eowyn Sheild Maiden. Bring up the neckline, loose the harsh leather belt (Tablet woven maybe?) and look at some period veil drapings to pull this together. I also suggest a self supporting underdress. O.k. butterbutt, no need to insult me, stay at criticizing the clothes. The silk is handwoven by kids workers in India! And sorry for my skin, but there are no kissmarks on it and I am not YOUR maid, giek! Would give you a 10 for Disneyland, but for medieval ? What's hand woven silk good for, if the complete garb don't fit (mistakles mentiond above) ? Oh yes, i forgot. It's made by the hands of some forced-to-work children... Yeah, be proud of it, dumpass. Whatever happened to civility and treating each other with courtesy? Love the colour. - for neckline, veil and belt, it's been said before. The only real problem is the neckline since it's damn hard to fix. If fabric is Fair Trade, it should be fine--it is beautiful. Problems have already been mentioned. Glad to see someone at least attempting a veil. I'd live to see a standing pic to see how it really drapes. Looks like I might need to fit tighter through the torso. Veil and belt comments have already been made. Sad about child labor. :-( 6 Looks like she's probably a fighter who needs a mantle to protect her collarbone... Love the colour and the fabric (fair trade products rock), but there's lots of docu for more period veil drapings, see #262 OK, dress would get a 5 for the work, altough not slightly period... But for, apperntly even beeing proud of, supporting childrens labor you get a 1 for the Dress, a -10 for Character... Admins, please delete this shameless person, its a shame for SCA! it's really fantasy especialy the headdress. the cut of this dress is way more 15th century. at least wear a smock of some sort, chemise or wimple to cover your chest. Fabric too shinny for that period.Cover your hair, wear a real veil, loose the necklace Gourgeous fabric, love the sleeves, but can't possibly be 12th century with that neckline and that veil/hair. So sorry, I know you can't fix the neckline. Bodice needs to be tightly side laced - not princess seamed. Don't do a curved armscye. Neckline should be v or keyhole not scoop. Veil should be square or oval. Leather belt 13th century, not 12th. Nice trim and color on dress. medieval movie prop as a result of gaining knowledge without reading a book. Shame om You. Would LOVE to see you standing up ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 20:54:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i221sFSd014856 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:54:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i221rMcP027218; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:53:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i221rLKj075619; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:53:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i221g8Kj070162 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:42:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m49.in-tch.com [216.166.191.49]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i221JOs10362 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:19:24 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4043E72F.4070400@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 18:45:19 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of Catherine Parr References: <4B60B2D8-6BA8-11D8-9530-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> In-Reply-To: <4B60B2D8-6BA8-11D8-9530-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mmmm...haven't read the books, but would have to agree with you about the "flavor" of the t.v. specials...pretty sensationalistic. --sue Sarah wrote: > I should clarify. I was speaking about Starkey's television specials, > not his books. I'm sure others will be swift to disagree with me on > this point as well, but hey. That's my opinion and I'm sticking with > it. ;) > > Sarah > http://www.modehistorique.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 20:55:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i221t7Sd014863 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:55:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i221r7cP027189; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:53:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i221qxKj075375; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:52:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i221clKj068568 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:38:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m49.in-tch.com [216.166.191.49]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i221G5s08749 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:16:05 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4043E668.2050807@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 18:42:00 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for a painting References: <20040301162539.72537.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040301162539.72537.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the link. That 1540 Florentine noblewoman in a green gown (by Bronzino) has always been one of my favorites....just seeing it is almost enough to haul me back into the 16th c. (not from the 21st, understand ;o), but from the 14th where I'm currently trying to establish a persona....) --maire Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: > http://www.geocities.com/ailithmac/portraits.html > > There are 2 portraits of Eleonora de Toldeo wearing > pearled partlets. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 21:19:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i222JkSd014948 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:19:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i222HgcP028776; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:17:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i222HZKj087381; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:17:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav44.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i222HYKj087325 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:17:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:00:08 -0800 Received: from 24.58.109.191 by bay1-dav44.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 02:00:08 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.109.191] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4043E48C.3000805@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:00:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2004 02:00:08.0273 (UTC) FILETIME=[169BEC10:01C3FFFA] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And yet people keep using the site. Too bad it can't be moderated. No instead we must hear nit picking about "change the linen" "move the hickey" (do they know hickeys are period?) I've also tended to notice that the more respected the costumer is (or the more pictures they have on AIPON) the more they get slammed. Or worse the more accurate the effort the gown the look the harder it gets slammed. There is no one up there with perfection for comments without criticism unless someone has put their cute child sporting the Barbie does Rapunzel look at the local Renfaire. Why not be constructive? And don't sit and tell me that people on these lists aren't among those making the rude comments. This site may have it's occasional lurker from outside our cherished circle of costumers from h-cost and yahoo but I find it a bit hard that such a genre geared site aimed at only people who do ren costume or are SCAdian minded is getting slammed by mundanes. That makes me worried. These are comments from what are essentially very sad snarks with no life except to pick and critisize. These are the people who at events make stink eye at someone at her first event wearing a CW hoop under her generic wench skirt. Instead of being nice and guiding the poor girl (who may not even WANT help to start with) in the correct direction I've seen these shrews put these poor girls in tears. Yep Bice just ranted and will get off her soapbox. Sorry it won't happen for another 6 months at least. Most of you know me know those hot spots for me tend to be far and few between but this is a biggie. Bice (who isn't called The Bitch for nothing) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 21:25:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i222PNSd014959 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:25:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i222MEcP028948; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:22:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i222MCKj089429; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:22:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out011.verizon.net (out011pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i222M9Kj089390 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:22:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kathysmassmail@verizon.net) Received: from outgoing.verizon.net ([192.168.1.7]) by out011.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040302020914.LQIW18566.out011.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:09:14 -0600 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.12 (webedge20-101-197-20030912) From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:09:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out011.verizon.net from [192.168.1.7] at Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:09:14 -0600 Message-Id: <20040302020914.LQIW18566.out011.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I posted a picture of me in one of my middle-class hat attempts, to see > if people posting were at least warned that comments could be > stupid/rude/ignorant, which I think would be only fair. Ok, since I know very little about these hats and I'm curious, _which_ of their posts were anywhere near the mark or where they all totally wrong? I loved the one about having glued it on (????). How on earth can you tell without handling the dern thing? --Kathy K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 21:43:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i222h6Sd015049 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:43:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i222fJcP029894; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:41:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i222fFKj097813; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:41:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i222fAKk097781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:41:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i222eJ7j012993 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:40:19 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 21:40:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4043F44A.2070406@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 21:41:14 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Middle class hat/My guilty pleasure. References: <20040302020914.LQIW18566.out011.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <20040302020914.LQIW18566.out011.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO kathysmassmail@verizon.net wrote: > Ok, since I know very little about these hats and I'm curious, > _which_ of their posts were anywhere near the mark or where they all > totally wrong? I loved the one about having glued it on (????). How > on earth can you tell without handling the dern thing? Yeah, I'd like to know what people meant by "glue finish." Someone theorized that the posters thought I'd used Stitch Witchery (a fusable) to hem it instead of a real hem (it's a .25" machine hem). Someone else thought that it meant you'd cut the edge and then use some sort of glue to "finish" it without folding it as for a hem. I've never heard of this as an option; it would certainly work for modern glues, but I wouldn't expect a period glue to do that sort of thing well (this is a guess.) The comments that were correct were: lighter linen. It's cotton muslin; light linen would be great. Linen, even thin, would stand up better to follow the picture. Hair showing: maybe. If the model's hair were blonde, it might not show much. Hard to say if it's really a problem. Glasses: in the context of the SCA, glasses aren't a big deal. If I were doing re-enactment/living history for the public, I'd hunt down some contact lenses. The biggest problem with the hat isn't even addressed by the commentators: it's a sham. By which I mean, I don't think that my solution for the underpinnings is likely to be the way it was really done. I say as much on the webpage I wrote about it. The underpinnings are basically a square bonnet; it folds flat; ties under my chin, and the ties are hidden by the wimple drape. It works well for camping and rough events, and I can put it on without a mirror. Wouldn't work well in the wet; the buckram (!) inside the bonnet would get all soggy and floppy. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 1 21:48:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i222moSd015076 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:48:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i222lccP000498; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:47:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i222laKj000776; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:47:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop2a.ripco.com (root@pop2a.ripco.com [209.100.227.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i222lYKj000762 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:47:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zski@ripco.com) Received: from ripco.com (tcr112.dynip.ripco.net [209.100.226.112]) by pop2a.ripco.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i222lUGp021326 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:47:31 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4043F5BC.4040807@ripco.com> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:47:24 -0600 From: zski User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200403020147.i221cQKl068374@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE:My fortune is now gone.... LOL X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Went to the sewing expo this weekend in puyallup, wa. What great fun. I especially enjoyed all the diversity of the craft. The booth that got my fortune this year was Vogue Fabric. High quality, designer fabric at VERY reasonable prices (some as little as $3.99 a yard, most around 5-7.99 a yard). Their website is http://www.voguefabricsstore.com/ ------------------------------ Hee hee - I work walking distance from the Evanston location! We call it "Vague Fabrics" because it is a great place to drop in if you have a vague idea of what you want. If you go in looking for 60" wide-wale emerald green courduroy, you will pay waaay too much. If, however, you go in thinking "I need a new skirt, and I'm thinking blue or green" you will clean up! Currently have a faire skirt in the works from navy blue $1/yd "mystery fabric". Prolly some kind of blend, but the weave is right and it goes with my new brocade bodice. Wendy Z now I need chemise fabric in Chicago, IL (After a brush with a drunk woman sporting a fresh henna tattoo at MiRF last year ruined my favorite one.....waaah) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 00:50:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i225oRSd015672 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 00:50:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i225njcP009868; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:49:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i225naKj075071; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:49:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out012.verizon.net (out012pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i225nXKj075036 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:49:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp ([4.62.21.200]) by out012.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040302054932.NFIG18295.out012.verizon.net@brandyscomp> for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:49:32 -0600 Message-ID: <030c01c4001a$2519e420$c8153e04@brandyscomp> From: "Brandy Deming" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200403020147.i221cQKl068374@net.indra.com> <4043F5BC.4040807@ripco.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:My fortune is now gone.... LOL Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:49:35 -0800 Organization: Better Times for Small Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out012.verizon.net from [4.62.21.200] at Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:49:32 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO LUCKY LUCKY LUCKY YOU!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "zski" To: Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 6:47 PM Subject: [h-cost] RE:My fortune is now gone.... LOL > Went to the sewing expo this weekend in puyallup, wa. What great fun. I > especially enjoyed all the diversity of the craft. The booth that got my > fortune this year was Vogue Fabric. High quality, designer fabric at > VERY reasonable prices (some as little as $3.99 a yard, most around > 5-7.99 a yard). > Their website is http://www.voguefabricsstore.com/ > ------------------------------ > Hee hee - I work walking distance from the Evanston location! > > We call it "Vague Fabrics" because it is a great place to drop in if you > have a vague idea of what you want. If you go in looking for 60" > wide-wale emerald green courduroy, you will pay waaay too much. If, > however, you go in thinking "I need a new skirt, and I'm thinking blue > or green" you will clean up! > > Currently have a faire skirt in the works from navy blue $1/yd "mystery > fabric". Prolly some kind of blend, but the weave is right and it goes > with my new brocade bodice. > > Wendy Z > now I need chemise fabric in > Chicago, IL > (After a brush with a drunk woman sporting a fresh henna tattoo at MiRF > last year ruined my favorite one.....waaah) > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 01:52:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i226qGSd015817 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 01:52:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i226oQcP012122; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:50:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i226oOKj097373; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:50:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i226oMKj097351 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:50:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.128.142]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48A2D6F95F for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:50:21 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 22:53:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of Catherine Parr Message-ID: <4043BEF7.16238.1B2B7077@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4B60B2D8-6BA8-11D8-9530-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> References: <200402292233.20818.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I should clarify. I was speaking about Starkey's television specials, > not his books. I'm sure others will be swift to disagree with me on > this point as well, but hey. That's my opinion and I'm sticking with > it. ;) That may explain people's reactions to him then. I've never seen one of the specials but I've read 3 of his books and been impressed by the scholarship compared to most people writing on the same topics. Sometimes things on TV are "sexed up" because that seems to be what gets ratings which bring in money. So, I don't believe I'd judge his knowledge by that sort of thing. (Any more than I judge Zahi Hawess on what he says in those awful Egyptian TV things he sometimes does. His written scholarship is solid, even if he does end up in the same program as a guy who thinks that the pyramids were from space traveling people.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 05:58:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22AwBSd010481 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 05:58:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22AvBcP020534; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 03:57:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22Av0Kj083046; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 03:57:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12905.mail.yahoo.com (web12905.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i22AswKj082231 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 03:56:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20040302102816.50534.qmail@web12905.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.48.41.31] by web12905.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 05:28:16 EST Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 05:28:16 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] anyone ever see this picture before? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.ac-creteil.fr/louise/dossiers/henri4/jeuneroi/mariage.jpg Does anyone know more about it? I'm brewing up another one of my theories again, this might be the link I am needing to connect the whole crazy idea together. Kathy --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 09:02:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22E25Sd013914 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:02:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22E16cP028640; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:01:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22E10Kj052378; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:01:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22E0rKj052335 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:00:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i22E0rT29080.; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:00:53 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:00:51 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:00:36 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] anyone ever see this picture before? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Judging from the website, it would appear to be the wedding of Henri IV of France (don't know to which of his 2 wives). >>> caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca 3/2/04 10:28:16 AM >>> http://www.ac-creteil.fr/louise/dossiers/henri4/jeuneroi/mariage.jpg Does anyone know more about it? I'm brewing up another one of my theories again, this might be the link I am needing to connect the whole crazy idea together. Kathy --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ _____________ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 09:41:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22EfRSd014285 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:41:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22EWLcP000255; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:32:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22EWIKj065732; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:32:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14003.mail.yahoo.com (web14003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i22EWFKj065688 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:32:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040302143214.8145.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:32:14 GMT Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:32:14 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] anyone ever see this picture before? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I believe this is his marriage to Margaret of Valois since it says marriage of the young king. Even though he wasn't king when he married her. --- Kate M Bunting wrote: > Judging from the website, it would appear to be the > wedding of Henri IV > of France (don't know to which of his 2 wives). > > >>> caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca 3/2/04 10:28:16 AM >>> > http://www.ac-creteil.fr/louise/dossiers/henri4/jeuneroi/mariage.jpg > > > Does anyone know more about it? I'm brewing up > another one of my > theories again, this might be the link I am needing > to connect the whole > crazy idea together. > > Kathy > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > _______________________________________________ > _____________ > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 10:12:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22FCESd014529 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:12:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22F9pcP002287; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:09:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22F9lKj084560; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:09:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22F9hKj084524 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:09:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.149] (pm5-149.eos.net [205.133.149.149]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22F9Zx0021417 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:09:36 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:09:27 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200403020141.i221cQKk068374@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia: Thanks for posting those samples. I forgot about this site, which I quite enjoyed the first few times I looked at it. The pictures are fun. The comments, especially on the second one you posted, are really shocking! What is the matter with people that they say such things? Just because you are anonymous doesn't mean you have the right to be nasty. I am tired of what passes for "just being honest" these days. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 10:26:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22FQaSd014749 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:26:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22FOZcP003252; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:24:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22FOTKj092704; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:24:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22FOQKj092578 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:24:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0867.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.100]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6974FBE786 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:24:17 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4044A721.4020706@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:24:17 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maby some of them are just jealous? The most stupid thing someone made about my dress: is just a nice wedding dress with a historic feel to it. That made me really angry. And the commants about cotton velvet. I have seen it in the Netherlands for 150 Euro per meter and they had it only in red. Ordering from internet is way to expensive since I have to pay import duty wich is quite high. What about tabs at the waist.... It is frustrating that you put a link on the site where is explained how I made the dress, but most people who give comments don't read it. http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=476 Gail & Scott Finke wrote: >Cynthia: > >Thanks for posting those samples. I forgot about this site, which I quite >enjoyed the first few times I looked at it. The pictures are fun. The >comments, especially on the second one you posted, are really shocking! What >is the matter with people that they say such things? Just because you are >anonymous doesn't mean you have the right to be nasty. I am tired of what >passes for "just being honest" these days. > >Gail Finke > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 10:29:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22FTZSd014799 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:29:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22FSvcP003615; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:28:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22FStKj095393; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:28:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22FSoKj095358 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:28:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_28810+JAGae91741)/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA24216 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:28:48 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Portrait of Catherine Parr Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:28:48 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4043BEF7.16238.1B2B7077@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have his series on Elizabeth I and Six Wives and they are not no much "sexed-up" as "dumbed down" for a general audience. Also in the introduction to the book "Six Wives" he explains how it evolved from a companion book to the series on TV to almost a separate work and much more weightly in volume and scope. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of kat@grendal.rain.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 12:54 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of Catherine Parr > I should clarify. I was speaking about Starkey's television specials, > not his books. I'm sure others will be swift to disagree with me on > this point as well, but hey. That's my opinion and I'm sticking with > it. ;) That may explain people's reactions to him then. I've never seen one of the specials but I've read 3 of his books and been impressed by the scholarship compared to most people writing on the same topics. Sometimes things on TV are "sexed up" because that seems to be what gets ratings which bring in money. So, I don't believe I'd judge his knowledge by that sort of thing. (Any more than I judge Zahi Hawess on what he says in those awful Egyptian TV things he sometimes does. His written scholarship is solid, even if he does end up in the same program as a guy who thinks that the pyramids were from space traveling people.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 10:44:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22FiQSd014978 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:44:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22FfMcP004676; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:41:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22FfIKj003038; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:41:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22FfAKj002909 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:41:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF70D42615 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:54:38 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4044ACDE.8000408@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:48:46 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] anyone ever see this picture before? References: <20040302102816.50534.qmail@web12905.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040302102816.50534.qmail@web12905.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathy Page wrote: > http://www.ac-creteil.fr/louise/dossiers/henri4/jeuneroi/mariage.jpg > > Does anyone know more about it? I'm brewing up another one of my theories again, this might be the link I am needing to connect the whole crazy idea together. > I haven't seen this image before, but something about it just screams 20th century (Victorian) to me. Maybe I need more caffeine. In any case, the image is too small for me to see details very clearly on my current monitor. What are you looking for? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 12:07:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22H7WSd015942 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:07:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22H3qcP012690; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:03:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22H3dKj069621; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:03:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22H3bKj069533 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:03:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.94] (pm7-094.eos.net [205.133.149.94]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22H3Yx0028415 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:03:35 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:03:26 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200403021541.i22FffKk003283@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: know more about this picture X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What exactly do you want to know? Just glancing at it, I would judge it to be a Victorian illustration or inexpensive painting. Are you trying to document some garment to Victorian interpretations of actual clothes? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 12:28:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22HSBSd016187 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:28:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22HP2cP015063; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22HOxKj000365; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:24:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22HOtKj099741 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:24:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i22HOIT19974.; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:24:18 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:24:18 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:24:04 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] anyone ever see this picture before? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040302, clamav-milter version 0.67j X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040302, clamav-milter version 0.67j Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: >I haven't seen this image before, but something about it just screams >20th century (Victorian) to me. Maybe I need more caffeine. You do - I think you mean 19th century! :-) Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 13:47:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22IlJSd016678 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:47:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22IjIcP023491; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:45:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22Ij5Kj061351; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:45:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22Ij2Kj061256 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:45:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.197.265df88f (4320) for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:39:48 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <197.265df88f.2d762ef3@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:39:47 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040302, clamav-milter version 0.67j X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040302, clamav-milter version 0.67j Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/2/2004 9:25:16 AM Central Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: It is frustrating that you put a link on the site where is explained how I made the dress, but most people who give comments don't read it. Oh, gosh, hon ... the comments on your dress are as kind and supportive as they get on that site! You looked absolutely stunning and your gown was gorgeous; don't let anyone else intrude on your memories of how you felt that day. Besides, white may not have been de-rigeur for brides in the 16th century, but you could always have been following Mary Stuart's example ::smile::. I've seen a fellow seamstress from eBay post a photo of a gown, which I thought was quite lovely, on that site. Granted there were things about it that were not entirely correct, but the comments she got were absolutely brutal. I thought the intent of that site was for people to give *constructive* commentary with an eye to improving accuracy, but people told her horrible things like "keep your day job...oh, wait, this IS your day job, how sad" and crap like that. It was really sick. -Tiffany Reflections*of*Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 14:00:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22J08Sd016825 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:00:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22IwncP024879; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:58:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22IwiKj071339; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:58:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22IwdKk071223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:58:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i22Ivg7j017164 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:57:42 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:57:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4044D95C.7050500@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:58:36 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot References: <197.265df88f.2d762ef3@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <197.265df88f.2d762ef3@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040302, clamav-milter version 0.67j X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040302, clamav-milter version 0.67j Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com wrote: > thought the intent of that site was for people to give *constructive* > commentary with an eye to improving accuracy, but people told her horrible things This is the biggest problem: there is NO GUIDANCE about what sort of comments. Nowhere does it say "be constructive." -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 14:06:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22J6ISd016866 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:06:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22J2tcP025467; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:02:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22J2sKj074581; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:02:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22J2VKj074215 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:02:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.21.3b353d29 (4320) for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:02:23 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <21.3b353d29.2d76343f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:02:23 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040302, clamav-milter version 0.67j X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040302, clamav-milter version 0.67j Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/2/2004 12:59:27 PM Central Standard Time, cvirtue+dated+1093805862.841067@thibault.org writes: This is the biggest problem: there is NO GUIDANCE about what sort of comments. Nowhere does it say "be constructive." Yeah ....I'm usually the idealist who's running around with a goofy grin, thinking that everyone's being nice, when it turns out they were actually plotting an assassination of some sort. -Tiffany Reflections*of*Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 14:21:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22JLaSd016918 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:21:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22JGMcP027102; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:16:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22JGKKj084856; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:16:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14004.mail.yahoo.com (web14004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i22JGFKj084798 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:16:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040302191614.94398.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:16:14 GMT Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:16:14 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4044D95C.7050500@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040302, clamav-milter version 0.67j X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040302, clamav-milter version 0.67j Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Somehow I managed to figure out that they were looking for constructive criticism. I have seen the SCA garb list get pretty nasty at times in the past. I personally wouldn't post my stuff on this site, but I like to see pictures of what other people are doing. We don't travel much so I get to see the same old garb style at every event. --- Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com wrote: > > thought the intent of that site was for people to > give *constructive* > > commentary with an eye to improving accuracy, but > people told her horrible things > > This is the biggest problem: there is NO GUIDANCE > about what sort of > comments. Nowhere does it say "be constructive." > ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 14:21:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22JLaSd016919 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:21:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22JHKcP027220; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:17:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22JHKKj085581; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:17:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14009.mail.yahoo.com (web14009.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i22JHHKj085547 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:17:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040302191714.38979.qmail@web14009.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14009.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:17:14 GMT Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:17:14 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot- 1643 To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4044D95C.7050500@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040302, clamav-milter version 0.67j X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040302, clamav-milter version 0.67j Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO where would you direct someone to for post-1643 cavalier type garb? I don't do that myself, but I have been asked in the past. ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 14:23:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22JNoSd016936 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:23:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22JB1cP026636; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22JAwKj080880; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:11:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i22JAsKj080844 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:10:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040302191039.31350.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:10:39 GMT Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:10:39 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4044A721.4020706@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040302, clamav-milter version 0.67j X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040302, clamav-milter version 0.67j Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I really liked this dress. Have you ever looked at message boards on new sites? There are sick, juvenile people out there cruising for places to make obscene and rude comments. I'd like to see more of your work. > The most stupid thing someone made about my dress: > is just a nice wedding dress with a historic feel to > it. > That made me really angry. > And the commants about cotton velvet. I have seen it > in the Netherlands > for 150 Euro per meter and they had it only in red. > Ordering from internet is way to expensive since I > have to pay import > duty wich is quite high. > What about tabs at the waist.... > It is frustrating that you put a link on the site > where is explained how > I made the dress, but most people who give comments > don't read it. > http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=476 > ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 14:46:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22JkpSd017194 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:46:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22JgWcP029459; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:42:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22JgSKj004106; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:42:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22JgQKj004010 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:42:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i22JgKT28207.; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:42:20 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:42:20 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:42:09 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot- 1643 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> ladyforbeys@yahoo.com 3/2/04 7:17:14 PM >>> > where would you direct someone to for post-1643 >cavalier type garb? I don't do that myself, but I have >been asked in the past. "English" Civil War (1642-51) is a very popular period for reenactment in the UK, but I don't know of any sites that discuss photos of garb in this way. The Sealed Knot and English Civil War Society have websites with picture galleries, and discussion forums where costume is among the subjects discussed. For contemporary illustrations, try http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/17thlinks.htm Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 14:48:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22JmgSd017221 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:48:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22JkGcP029977; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:46:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22Jk9Kj007105; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:46:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80404.mail.yahoo.com (web80404.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i22Jk8Kj007026 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:46:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jenniferfleury@sbcglobal.net) Message-ID: <20040302193922.84921.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.122.24.140] by web80404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:39:22 PST Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:39:22 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Fleury To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200403021901.i22J1cKk073578@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] amiperiodornot.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I always thought that if people had to put their email address and "join" the site, they would be less inclined to be nasty. And my pic didn't even get some of the worst comments (I'm #176). A friend of mine got comments calling him "fatto" and such. You have to just decide that it's not for the purposes of research, help or constructive criticism, and take it as the joke it is. Respectable costumers and researchers wouldn't be so nasty. Jennifer Fleury Assistant Property Master "Century City" Universal Network Television _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 15:50:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22KoYSd018000 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:50:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22KiDcP004973; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:44:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22Ki7Kj048997; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:44:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22Ki4Kj048945 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:44:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i22KZRZ18884 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:35:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AyGbu-00069F-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:35:27 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] anyone ever see this picture before? Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:35:42 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c40095$ef2da690$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i22Ki4Kj048945 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, so what is it about those pictures which screams Victorian? I felt the same way about it and have been trying to figure out what it is in my own head. Is it the realisim? Also the angle of her head seems Victorian to me....does that sound weird or what? -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kate M Bunting Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 10:24 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] anyone ever see this picture before? Dawn wrote: >I haven't seen this image before, but something about it just screams >20th century (Victorian) to me. Maybe I need more caffeine. You do - I think you mean 19th century! :-) Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 16:03:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22L3aSd018063 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:03:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22KxjcP006565; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:59:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22KxhKj060355; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:59:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22KxcKj060249 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:59:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97F7942615 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:13:08 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4044F785.7040506@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:07:17 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] amiperiodornot.com References: <20040302193922.84921.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040302193922.84921.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jennifer Fleury wrote: > > I always thought that if people had to put their email address and "join" the site, they would be less inclined to be nasty. I agree that the anonymity is a major factor behind the more abusive comments. A friend of mine "fixed" his out of control message board by turning on the software that logged the IP address of each visitor. When people posted they could use a pseudonym to log in, but it would always post their IP next to their name. It stopped people from using multiple names just to be argumentative or from returning under a new name if they got flamed off the board. And it gave him --the person in charge of the site-- a way to track the wost offenders and report them to their ISP. Unlike an email address, it's much harder to fake an IP address, and in this case it seemed to get the message across that abuse would not be tolerated. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 16:06:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22L6lSd018074 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:06:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22L49cP007046; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:04:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22L47Kj063672; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:04:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from thrednedlestrete.com (mail02.enterhost.com [69.93.13.234]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22L41Kj063556 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:04:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:03:54 -0600 Message-Id: <200403021503.AA410648790@thrednedlestrete.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] amiperiodornot.com X-Mailer: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh that is you Jennifer, I followed you around trying to look inconspicuous last Fresno Fair just trying to get a better view of your gown. It was very well done. I've always been afraid that that much machine embroidery would make the sleeves too stiff but that was not apparent at all. You looked georgous, truely. Lisa Sinervo ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Jennifer Fleury Reply-To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:39:22 -0800 (PST) > > >I always thought that if people had to put their email address and "join" the site, they would be less inclined to be nasty. And my pic didn't even get some of the worst comments (I'm #176). A friend of mine got comments calling him "fatto" and such. You have to just decide that it's not for the purposes of research, help or constructive criticism, and take it as the joke it is. Respectable costumers and researchers wouldn't be so nasty. > > >Jennifer Fleury >Assistant Property Master >"Century City" >Universal Network Television > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 16:19:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22LJvSd018153 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:19:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22LG9cP008123; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:16:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22LG6Kj072633; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:16:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22LG2Kj072535 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:16:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB7B942615 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:29:35 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4044FB60.3000504@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:23:44 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] anyone ever see this picture before? References: <000001c40095$ef2da690$6a01a8c0@SG01> In-Reply-To: <000001c40095$ef2da690$6a01a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > Yeah, so what is it about those pictures which screams Victorian? I felt > the same way about it and have been trying to figure out what it is in my > own head. Is it the realisim? Also the angle of her head seems Victorian to > me....does that sound weird or what? It may be the soft pastel tile floor. I can't see the faces clearly enough, but they have that soft, delicate petite featured look to them that was popular in the mid 1800's. Something about the poses of the men doesn't feel right for 16th century, and the entire composition seems too informal. I think the biggest thing I see is the way the woman in yellow is holding her overskirt gathered up in her right hand. I've never seen that pose in a 16th century portrait. Hmmn, it could just be the poor resolution, but it seems to be that none of the men are wearing codpieces. There's a hint of one on the man standing at center right, but I can't be sure. Yeah, I think in part it is the realism. A side effect of the growing fad for photography. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 16:34:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22LY7Sd018371 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:34:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22LRJcP009172; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:27:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22LRFKj080877; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:27:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22LQmKk080540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:26:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i22LPt7j017674 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:25:55 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:25:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4044FC1A.6080605@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:26:50 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] anyone ever see this picture before? References: <000001c40095$ef2da690$6a01a8c0@SG01> <4044FB60.3000504@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <4044FB60.3000504@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: > Something about the poses of the men > doesn't feel right for 16th century, and the entire composition seems > too informal. I'm no expert, but I did notice the delicate cock of the men's hands, and the way they have their non-weight leg bent 'just so.' The man in a helmet on the left is interesting and incongruous, as he has on tights and is otherwise not armored. So does someone know the real story of this picture? Did I miss a post with the details? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 16:37:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22LbDSd018406 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:37:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22LY3cP009871; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22LY1Kj086144; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:34:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22LXuKj086052 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:33:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.2d.3a76be9f (4362) for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:28:38 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <2d.3a76be9f.2d765686@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:28:38 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/2/2004 1:59:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, cvirtue+dated+1093805862.841067@thibault.org writes: > Nowhere does it say "be constructive." > Well, that's gonna guarantee positive comments! You guys are way too sensitive. Most cutting remarks [like the one above] are to show how clever the author is. It's comments like "white was not for weddings in 15-whatever blah blah blah...." that are the most annoying. What's the point they're trying to make? That no one EVER wore white at a wedding then? That this is actually 15-whatever? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 17:27:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22MRvSd018781 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:27:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22MQWcP014658; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:26:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22MPnKj024091; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:25:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk (fmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.218]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22MPkKj024055 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:25:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hbgd103@soton.ac.uk) Received: from [195.92.193.20] (helo=tmailm1.svr.pol.co.uk) by fmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1AyHcU-0000PQ-B3 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:40:06 +0000 Received: from modem-273.ballistic.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.25.137.17] helo=soton.ac.uk) by tmailm1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1AyHcN-0004VA-Du for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:39:59 +0000 Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:40:49 +0000 Subject: [h-cost] Catherine Parr Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Hilary Davidson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200403011856.i21Iu2Km086144@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <457A0935-6C92-11D8-BFF8-000A9567E116@soton.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > > I just want to know why THIS message (dated Feb 19th didn't show up in > my digest until today (Mar 1). I was wondering that too. On the subject of Parr vs Grey, I was flicking through an old costume book the other day, and was suprised to see the portrait attributed then as Catherine Parr.The book is Fashion: From Ancient Egypt to the Present Day, edited by James Laver, and published in 1965, p.138. The portrait was then in the Novarro Collection. I know it's a fairly generic costume history, but I was intrigued at the time and meant to follow it up. So if it was originally thought to be her, when was it decided to be Lady Jane? Did the historian who re-attributed it mention this? Cheers, Hilary > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 17:47:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22MlpSd018860 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:47:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22MkGcP016343; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:46:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22MjbKj037421; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:45:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i22MjZKj037334 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:45:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A72342615 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:59:09 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4045105E.2060101@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:53:18 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] anyone ever see this picture before? References: <000001c40095$ef2da690$6a01a8c0@SG01> <4044FB60.3000504@reddawn.net> <4044FC1A.6080605@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <4044FC1A.6080605@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > > So does someone know the real story of this picture? Did I miss a post > with the details? It's from this webpage: http://www.ac-creteil.fr/louise/dossiers/henri4/jeuneroi/mariage.html Navigation on the site is somewhat tricky, I haven't figured out the route from the main page, and there are no nav buttons within the section on Henri Quatre so I'm stabbing in the dark with Google trying to figure this out. I did notice that the alternate text for that image says "Tableau d'Edmond Lechevallier-Chevignar". Edmond Lechevallier-Chevignard (with a D) is the author (compiler?) of a book called _European Costume of the 16th Through the 18th Centuries_ which is line drawing repros of period portraits. He compiled or wrote a couple other titles on architecture and design which don't seem to be currently in print. More importantly, he was a painter who lived and worked in France, from 1825-1902. He seems to have been a contemporary of, and possibly in the same field of work as Auguste Racinet, whose costume book we are also familiar with. Henri of Navarre, later king of France, husband of the infamous Queen Margot, of recent movie fame is practically a saint as far as the French are concerned. Depictions of him have continued through to the present day. I'm not surprised scenes from his life were painted only 140 years ago. He's treated rather like George Washington or Abraham Lincoln is in the US. Regrettably, I cannot find any other examples of Lechevallier-Chevignard's work to compare the painting to, or even another example of that painting in a context that would prove he is the artist. If somebody has an art book for 19th century French painters that would be a good place to look. Dawn Now caffeinated and with way too much time on her hands today _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 19:26:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i230QTSd019367 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:26:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i230KEcP024960; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:20:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i230KBKj001801; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:20:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i230K4Kj001749 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:20:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i22MaEc27248 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:36:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-67.74.234.19.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.234.19] helo=HELENPINTO) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AyIUm-0006Ae-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:36:12 -0800 Message-ID: <032601c400a6$c29321d0$13ea4a43@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c40095$ef2da690$6a01a8c0@SG01> <4044FB60.3000504@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] anyone ever see this picture before? Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:36:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef3d30e7fe3e0abad3e1de224aa755fbcb350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It bothered me, too; but I couldn't put my finger on just why it struck me as a 19c. painting. Maybe the roundness of all the figures? Anyway, I tracked the painting back to the original site; the hot link is in the last line on the bottom of the page. Click on "mariage" and it will bring you to a page with two paintings. The one in question is the second one. If you mouse over it, it is identified as a painting by our old friend Edmond Lechevallier-Chevignard (1825-1902), author/illustrator of _European Costume of the 16th through 18th Centuries_. He was also a painter of portraits and murals, mostly from the same period, and also did architectural and non-portrait work. Everyone's instincts were correct. FYI, the first painting is by Jacopo Chimenti (aka Jacopo da Empoli, 1554-1610), at least a comtemporary. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 20:04:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2314nSd019661 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:04:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i230xncP028849; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:59:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i230xkKj024415; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:59:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zinc.btinternet.com (zinc.btinternet.com [194.73.73.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i230xgKj024379 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:59:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stevie.gamble@btinternet.com) Received: from [81.129.28.31] (helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1Ay9DN-0006Op-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:41:37 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c40053$f7a6b600$1f1c8151@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Popular periods for pearl decorations ? Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:43:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Elisabeth wrote: > I'm interested in re-creating a gown decorated with pearls. I realize that > pearls have been very popular for ornaments & jewellery for centuries but am > wondering about periods when they were actually sewn right onto the > garments. 'Pearls : a natural history' by Neil H. Landman ... [et al.]. - New York : (Harry N. Abrams in association with the American Museum of Natura, 2001) has wonderful information and pictures of pearls directly embroidered onto garments ranging from red velvet boots (Russian 16th century if my memory serves me) to helmets (Chinese) and all points in between. Have fun! best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 20:12:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i231CkSd019835 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:12:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2319FcP029570; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:09:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2319EKj029332; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:09:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2319AKj029272 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:09:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (pcp03026555pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.37.232.18]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i2318tRR008699 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:09:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040302112436.05614230@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:35:20 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell In-Reply-To: <200403010332.i213VpKk085266@net.indra.com> References: <200403010332.i213VpKk085266@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Reliability of Norah Waugh publications? (WAS: Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 138) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:32 PM 2/29/2004, Stevie Gamble wrote: >Indeed, but by definition a book published 50 years ago, before even >the Kyoto Costume Institute existed, can hardly have reflected the >holdings of that museum. Norah Waugh died in 1966, also long before >the foundation of the KCI. Hmm. This poses an interesting monkey wrench in a matter I've been wondering about for a bit over a year... In their "Extreme Beauty" exhibit, the Costume Institute of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York had a cotton gauze standing collar with wire supportasse which the exhibit card dated from 16th-Century Italy. (This item is *not* in the collection catalogue, sad to say.) Because of some questions Bella mentioned concerning the fiber and because "Italy" is a rather vague description for the period, I did some further checking in the museum's main library. The accession number on the item's exhibit card was not consistent with the museum's standards for accessions, nor could the librarian and I figure out any other method of accessing information about the acquisition, so it's been something on my mind for getting up my courage to make an appointment to visit the Costume Institute's library. Shortly afterwards, while browsing through the museum's giftshop and bookstore, I saw an almost-exact functional diagram of the supportasse in _The Cut of Men's Clothes_. Waugh dated the design in the 1610-1620 range. So I have curious as to not just the fiber information (which I think could be figured out by viewing the piece under a very strong magnifier or a weak microscope) and city-state of origin, but also the apparent inconsistency in dating this piece. The idea that Waugh's publication is over 35 years old now makes me wonder even more... *sigh* Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 20:15:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i231F8Sd019885 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:15:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i231C3cP029718; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i231C0Kj030761; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:12:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20601.mail.yahoo.com (web20601.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i231BuKj030740 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:11:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from abundance89721@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040303010513.44615.qmail@web20601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.151.41.205] by web20601.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:05:13 PST Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:05:13 -0800 (PST) From: Morgen Marshall To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200403030100.i2310GKl024692@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] pearl decorations X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Message: 16 Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:43:30 -0000 From: "Stevie Gamble" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Popular periods for pearl decorations ? To: Message-ID: <000901c40053$f7a6b600$1f1c8151@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Elisabeth wrote: > I'm interested in re-creating a gown decorated with pearls. I realize that > pearls have been very popular for ornaments & jewellery for centuries but am > wondering about periods when they were actually sewn right onto the > garments. 'Pearls : a natural history' by Neil H. Landman ... [et al.]. - New York : (Harry N. Abrams in association with the American Museum of Natura, 2001) has wonderful information and pictures of pearls directly embroidered onto garments ranging from red velvet boots (Russian 16th century if my memory serves me) to helmets (Chinese) and all points in between. Have fun! best wishes Stevie __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 20:15:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i231FvSd019903 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:15:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i231D0cP029886; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:13:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i231CvKj031298; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:12:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20609.mail.yahoo.com (web20609.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.167]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i231CqKj031259 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:12:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from abundance89721@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040303010611.40103.qmail@web20609.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.151.41.205] by web20609.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:06:11 PST Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:06:11 -0800 (PST) From: Morgen Marshall To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200403030100.i2310GKl024692@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] pearl decorations X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've always found the 17th century to be a popular place to use pearls on bodices... Morgen Marshall Elisabeth wrote: > I'm interested in re-creating a gown decorated with pearls. I realize that > pearls have been very popular for ornaments & jewellery for centuries but am > wondering about periods when they were actually sewn right onto the > garments. 'Pearls : a natural history' by Neil H. Landman ... [et al.]. - New York : (Harry N. Abrams in association with the American Museum of Natura, 2001) has wonderful information and pictures of pearls directly embroidered onto garments ranging from red velvet boots (Russian 16th century if my memory serves me) to helmets (Chinese) and all points in between. Have fun! best wishes Stevie __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 20:29:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i231TISd019992 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:29:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i231RrcP001581; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:27:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i231RkKj038745; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:27:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i231RiKk038731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:27:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i231Qp7j023474 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:26:51 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:26:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40453493.20500@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:27:47 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot References: <2d.3a76be9f.2d765686@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <2d.3a76be9f.2d765686@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >>Nowhere does it say "be constructive." > Well, that's gonna guarantee positive comments! I know it can't be guaranteed, but it at least would give some direction. It's clear tht some of the people commenting think that being snarky is the point of the site. Some think it's a lighthearted site. Some think that anything silly is a criminal waste of their time, because the site is serious, serious, serious. And more to my main concern, there are novice costumers out there who think it's going to be useful, post their pictures, and are blasted out of the water by gratuitiously nasty remarks. It's these folks I'd most like to protect by some sort of warning notice. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 20:56:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i231usSd020109 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:56:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i231qscP004126; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:52:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i231qqKj050317; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:52:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i231qlKj050293 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:52:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-34-186.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.34.186]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i231qgd7005401 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:52:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040302172422.060125f0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:25:12 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] anyone ever see this picture before? In-Reply-To: <4044ACDE.8000408@reddawn.net> References: <20040302102816.50534.qmail@web12905.mail.yahoo.com> <20040302102816.50534.qmail@web12905.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>http://www.ac-creteil.fr/louise/dossiers/henri4/jeuneroi/mariage.jpg >> >>Does anyone know more about it? I'm brewing up another one of my theories >>again, this might be the link I am needing to connect the whole crazy >>idea together. >> > >I haven't seen this image before, but something about it just screams 20th >century (Victorian) to me. Maybe I need more caffeine. In any case, the >image is too small for me to see details very clearly on my current monitor. The poses of all the people, and the angle from which it was painted, all look 19th century to me. I agree - it "tastes" wrong. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 21:07:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2327kSd020150 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:07:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2320IcP004722; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:00:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2320HKj053541; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:00:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2320CKj053432 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:00:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Georgeren2@aol.com) Received: from Georgeren2@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.31.44bcba90 (18707) for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:54:52 -0500 (EST) From: Georgeren2@aol.com Message-ID: <31.44bcba90.2d7694ec@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:54:52 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] amiperiodornot.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5007 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has anyone ever challenged those people with ignorant comments to post their pictures. Geez! These people really take all the want and desire out of reenactment. The people posting their pictures are at least trying and at that one should encourage and guide them in a positive way. Come on people with ignorant comments. Post your pictures! So that we can get a look at you. Patrice Betancur (AKA: Dona Isabeau Adrienne de Tejelo) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 21:15:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i232FESd020220 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:15:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i232DscP005953; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:13:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i232DpKj059391; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:13:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20729.mail.yahoo.com (web20729.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.119]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i232DlKj059358 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:13:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040303021347.75527.qmail@web20729.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.237.35.90] by web20729.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 18:13:47 PST Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:13:47 -0800 (PST) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] Odd costume-related question To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <404371F7.7060000@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO RE: baby carriers > From: "Kate M Bunting" > wrote: > > How about Rembrandt's "Beggars receiving alms at > the door of a house" > >- see > > >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/r/rembran/graphics/etching/index.html I see a twisted strip of material along both of the woman's shoulders at about a normal shoulder/sleeve seam & across her upper chest. Looks like a back pack support system there, although the soft material around the baby is unlike any backpack I know. Ann in CT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 22:00:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2330XSd020726 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:00:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i232tVcP009387; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:55:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i232tSKj077834; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:55:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i232tQKj077785 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:55:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Georgeren2@aol.com) Received: from Georgeren2@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.35.442c8c85 (17079) for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:50:07 -0500 (EST) From: Georgeren2@aol.com Message-ID: <35.442c8c85.2d76a1df@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:50:07 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5007 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/2/2004 7:25:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=476 Your gown is beautiful. You are on the right track my dear. Keep up the good work! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 2 22:45:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i233jaSd020983 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:45:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i233j9cP014213; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:45:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i233j5Kj000208; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:45:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12902.mail.yahoo.com (web12902.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i233j2Kj000195 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:45:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20040303033821.96985.qmail@web12902.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.48.41.31] by web12902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 22:38:21 EST Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:38:21 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200403030100.i2310GKj024692@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: has anyone seen this painting before? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, I had no idea who it was attributed to, nor did I know who the artist was, I only knew who was in the painting. I have been knawing away at this curious theory. I think I had mentioned something about it in the past about Venetian collar ruffs. I have suspected that the Venetians got the fashion from the French, but I am not having an easy time of if proving my theory. Everything I find is either some annoying Vic reprint or falls out of the timeline. If I can find a French portrait that has the standing open ruff with the appropriate provenance, I'll be content. I suspect that it showed up in Venice when Henri III arrived. (first evidence of this type of collar that I have found is http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/Lido1574.jpg) After that one, they become popular through the 1580's through the early 1600's. All of this hinges on the point that Henri III arrived in Venice in 1574, one of the Henri's from France marries Margot in 1572, which this painting depicts, and her wearing the collar in question. If Henri III happened to have a woman in his entourage, and she ha! ppened to bring in the fashion... 1+1=2. My whole point for banging my head against this particular wall? I want to reasonably justify using a supportasse or other support mechanism for the collar that you can't reallllllly see in Venetian portraiture, but I have in French. Kathy Helen wrote: It bothered me, too; but I couldn't put my finger on just why it struck me as a 19c. painting. Maybe the roundness of all the figures? Anyway, I tracked the painting back to the original site; the hot link is in the last line on the bottom of the page. Click on "mariage" and it will bring you to a page with two paintings. The one in question is the second one. If you mouse over it, it is identified as a painting by our old friend Edmond Lechevallier-Chevignard (1825-1902), author/illustrator of _European Costume of the 16th through 18th Centuries_. He was also a painter of portraits and murals, mostly from the same period, and also did architectural and non-portrait work. Everyone's instincts were correct. FYI, the first painting is by Jacopo Chimenti (aka Jacopo da Empoli, 1554-1610), at least a comtemporary. -Helen/Aidan --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 00:27:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i235RESd021500 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 00:27:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i235QjcP024175; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:26:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i235QdKj050665; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:26:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i235QbKj050639 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:26:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m149.in-tch.com [216.166.191.149]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i2353ts06658 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:03:55 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <40456D4F.8000304@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 22:29:51 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot References: <4044A721.4020706@kabelfoon.nl> In-Reply-To: <4044A721.4020706@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rude raspberries to the complainers! You love beautiful in that gown and your husband is really yummy, too! --sue Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Maby some of them are just jealous? > The most stupid thing someone made about my dress: > is just a nice wedding dress with a historic feel to it. > That made me really angry. > And the commants about cotton velvet. I have seen it in the Netherlands > for 150 Euro per meter and they had it only in red. > Ordering from internet is way to expensive since I have to pay import > duty wich is quite high. > What about tabs at the waist.... > It is frustrating that you put a link on the site where is explained how > I made the dress, but most people who give comments don't read it. > http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=476 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 00:38:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i235cBSd021550 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 00:38:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i235aucP024875; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:36:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i235atKj055215; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:36:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i235arKj055206 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:36:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F4151D494 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:36:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p342.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.88]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5A299D432 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:36:52 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:37:09 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <2d.3a76be9f.2d765686@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Surely there wasn't a comment that white was not for weddings in the 1500s. There is at least one painting that shows a woman in a (off white) dress and it is listed as her wedding dress. Ok, so it was Germanic and not English but it may have happened but not painted. Arian -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of AlbertCat@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 3:29 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot In a message dated 3/2/2004 1:59:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, cvirtue+dated+1093805862.841067@thibault.org writes: > Nowhere does it say "be constructive." > Well, that's gonna guarantee positive comments! You guys are way too sensitive. Most cutting remarks [like the one above] are to show how clever the author is. It's comments like "white was not for weddings in 15-whatever blah blah blah...." that are the most annoying. What's the point they're trying to make? That no one EVER wore white at a wedding then? That this is actually 15-whatever? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 01:07:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2367kSd021734 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 01:07:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2367CcP027226; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:07:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23678Kj067589; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:07:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23675Kj067570 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:07:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 130C01D215 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 00:07:05 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p342.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.88]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E89C1D3EA for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 00:07:03 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 00:07:21 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <197.265df88f.2d762ef3@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, The orange gown. Looked beautiful, almost period. Great for an average ren fest. Commentors got vicious. Now I understand what people were talking about. I'll still go and look and add comments where I know. There was a picture what I call the kilted blue boy (light heartedly). Instead of letting him know that a the shirt really should be in the white range or saffron in color they poked fun at his kilt. They said he didn't wrap his kilt right and it needed pleats. There is a period wrap that I was told that had the pleats in the back but it was smooth in the front and there is another wrap that does not have pleats. De -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 12:40 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot In a message dated 3/2/2004 9:25:16 AM Central Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: It is frustrating that you put a link on the site where is explained how I made the dress, but most people who give comments don't read it. Oh, gosh, hon ... the comments on your dress are as kind and supportive as they get on that site! You looked absolutely stunning and your gown was gorgeous; don't let anyone else intrude on your memories of how you felt that day. Besides, white may not have been de-rigeur for brides in the 16th century, but you could always have been following Mary Stuart's example ::smile::. I've seen a fellow seamstress from eBay post a photo of a gown, which I thought was quite lovely, on that site. Granted there were things about it that were not entirely correct, but the comments she got were absolutely brutal. I thought the intent of that site was for people to give *constructive* commentary with an eye to improving accuracy, but people told her horrible things like "keep your day job...oh, wait, this IS your day job, how sad" and crap like that. It was really sick. -Tiffany Reflections*of*Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 01:52:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i236qaSd022092 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 01:52:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i236pvcP000102; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:51:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i236pqKj083325; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:51:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i236poKj083279 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:51:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A08740076; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 00:51:51 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0546260112; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 00:51:00 -0600 Message-ID: <005201c400eb$dd472b80$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 01:50:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: OSRELAY: Please stop using relays.osirusoft.com X-RBL-Warning: WEIGHT5: Weight of 5 reaches or exceeds the limit of 5. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Books and Plays X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i236qaSd022092 Status: RO I am working on making an online Costume Encyclopedia. I need one or two people who are well read in *1900 and older* books and plays to help me determine their setting locations and dates. These are books and plays are from all over the world. The people who help me on this project will receive at least a year's subscription to my online Library. If you all want, I can post some of the books and plays on the list. Whoever can answer the most settings correct from the letters A & B sections will get the job. Since so many people will depend on work, I can't afford someone who wants to guess. The given work will have to be verified through reference websites. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 02:15:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i237FpSd000961 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 02:15:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i237FJcP001437; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 00:15:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i237FHKj091424; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 00:15:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i237FFKj091395 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 00:15:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A6061B0090; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 01:15:18 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A5E355D01DE; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 01:14:43 -0600 Message-ID: <006f01c400ef$2b56a960$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 02:14:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-RBL-Warning: OSRELAY: Please stop using relays.osirusoft.com X-RBL-Warning: WEIGHT5: Weight of 5 reaches or exceeds the limit of 5. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Books and Plays Listing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i237FpSd000961 Status: RO Please email your answers to me privately, penny@costumegallery.com . Provide the information if the character was from a book or play, time period (in years), and location. Some I am not sure if they might just be a person of someone's court or an artist and a painting. Here are my questionable characters from the *A* section of my encyclopedia. Please, please, please email me off-list with your answers. Make sure to back up your answers with a website for reference. There are plenty of literary websites. If you know 10 of them, please stop there. There are 18 characters below. Alice Bridgenorth (Peveril of the Peak) Altreval (in Ladies' Battle) Angot, Fille de Madame (Clairette) Anne of Geierstein (Sir Walter Scott) Anne Page (Merry Wives of Windsor) Annie Laurie (character in a Scotch song... need time period) Annot Lyle (Legend of Montrose) Arabelle (Babiole) Arblay, Madame D' Ariel (Tempest) Archite (Chaucer) Arlequinette / Harlequinette Armida (Tasso's Jerusalemme Liberata) Arrah-na-pogue (Irish Peasant) Aslanga (Fouque's Aslanga's Knight) Audrey (As You Like It) Aveline (La Marjolaine) Azucena (Il Trovatore) Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 03:55:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i238tTSd016113 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 03:55:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i238jxcP006770; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 01:46:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i238joKj024603; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 01:45:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [194.63.250.95]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i238jlKk024584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 01:45:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ingridgs@techarea.net) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [127.0.0.1]) by decna.com (8.12.11.Beta0/8.12.11.Beta0/Debian-1) with ESMTP id i238fRFG029141 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:41:27 +0100 Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by decna.com (8.12.11.Beta0/8.12.11.Beta0/Debian-1) with ESMTP id i238fRuQ029137 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:41:27 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: decna.com: ingridgs owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:41:27 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= X-X-Sender: ingridgs@decna.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Decna-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id i238jlKk024584 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pictures from an event in Sweden, last summer X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, all! I only just realized that they've put up pictures from a wonderful event I attended last summer, Hantverkslägret (Camp of Crafts) in Kronoberg, Sweden. It was a mixed-period event, ranging mostly from 9th/10th to late 14th century, where the participants came to perform period crafts together for a bit over a week. I thought maybe some of you would enjoy the pictures. :) Unfortunatly it was so hot that a lot of people left their wool layers off for the workday, especially those working around fires, so some of the best costumes aren't pictured because it was so dark when people put them on. :/ The main site is here http://www.hantverkslagret.org/hantverkslagret/index.asp , and a direct link to the picture galleries is here : http://www.hantverkslagret.org/hantverkslagret/tidigare_verksamhet/kronoberg_2003/s_2003.asp . It's all in Swedish I'm afraid, but the seven picture galleries should be easy enough to navigate anyway. :) Ingrid -- This email has been scanned for viruses & spam by Decna as - www.decna.no Denne E-post er sjekket for virus & spam av Decna as - www.decna.no _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 04:04:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2394ZSd016391 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 04:04:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23944cP007838; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 02:04:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23942Kj030676; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 02:04:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23940Kj030649 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 02:04:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0867.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.100]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8322B19FB7C for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:03:52 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <40459F7A.9050107@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:03:54 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, http://aipon.50megs.com/14to16.htm I am looking for pictures of number 114. Unfortionally her site has been deleted. Since I want to recreate this dress too I would love to see how this person has done it. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 06:54:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i23BsISd018207 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 06:54:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23BrfcP017988; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 04:53:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23BrbKj089011; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 04:53:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out009.verizon.net (out009pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.131]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23BrZKj089002 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 04:53:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebarefoot.contessa@verizon.net) Received: from computer ([151.198.112.21]) by out009.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040303114657.OGKH29216.out009.verizon.net@computer> for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 05:46:57 -0600 Message-ID: <006101c4011e$224dfec0$1570c697@computer> From: "EIW" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040303033821.96985.qmail@web12902.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: has anyone seen this painting before? Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 06:50:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out009.verizon.net from [151.198.112.21] at Wed, 3 Mar 2004 05:46:54 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It looks like a Frans Hals, a Rubens of VanDick. Most probably 17th century. It could go into the 18th c being a Gillot, like the Italian Comedy paintings, the whole Rococo thing and the influence of Venetian paintings and Boucher. If I had the full painting I may be able to tell more. Hope this helps, Elizabeth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:38 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: has anyone seen this painting before? > Thanks, I had no idea who it was attributed to, nor did I know who the artist was, I only knew who was in the painting. > > I have been knawing away at this curious theory. I think I had mentioned something about it in the past about Venetian collar ruffs. I have suspected that the Venetians got the fashion from the French, but I am not having an easy time of if proving my theory. Everything I find is either some annoying Vic reprint or falls out of the timeline. If I can find a French portrait that has the standing open ruff with the appropriate provenance, I'll be content. I suspect that it showed up in Venice when Henri III arrived. (first evidence of this type of collar that I have found is http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/Lido1574.jpg) After that one, they become popular through the 1580's through the early 1600's. All of this hinges on the point that Henri III arrived in Venice in 1574, one of the Henri's from France marries Margot in 1572, which this painting depicts, and her wearing the collar in question. If Henri III happened to have a woman in his entourage, and she ha! > ppened to > bring in the fashion... 1+1=2. My whole point for banging my head against this particular wall? I want to reasonably justify using a supportasse or other support mechanism for the collar that you can't reallllllly see in Venetian portraiture, but I have in French. > > Kathy > > > > Helen wrote: > It bothered me, too; but I couldn't put my finger on just why it struck me > as a 19c. painting. Maybe the roundness of all the figures? > Anyway, I tracked the painting back to the original site; the hot link is in > the last line on the bottom of the page. Click on "mariage" and it will > bring you to a page with two paintings. The one in question is the second > one. If you mouse over it, it is identified as a painting by our old friend > Edmond Lechevallier-Chevignard (1825-1902), author/illustrator of _European > Costume of the 16th through 18th Centuries_. He was also a painter of > portraits and murals, mostly from the same period, and also did > architectural and non-portrait work. Everyone's instincts were correct. > FYI, the first painting is by Jacopo Chimenti (aka Jacopo da Empoli, > 1554-1610), at least a comtemporary. > -Helen/Aidan > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 07:42:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i23CgvSd018540 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 07:42:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23CgTcP019966; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 05:42:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23CgSKj006026; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 05:42:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23CgOKk005996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 05:42:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i23CfU7j026174 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 07:41:30 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 07:41:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4045D2B3.3050604@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 07:42:27 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot References: <40459F7A.9050107@kabelfoon.nl> In-Reply-To: <40459F7A.9050107@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Deredere Galbraith wrote: > I am looking for pictures of number 114. > Unfortionally her site has been deleted. > Since I want to recreate this dress too I would love to see how this > person has done it. Someone started a Yahoo Group to discuss things on the site; asking there might be a good start. It's linked from the AIPON site. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 07:43:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i23ChsSd018545 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 07:43:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23ChKcP020051; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 05:43:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23ChIKj006350; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 05:43:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23ChFKj006333 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 05:43:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i23ChET06189.; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 12:43:14 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 12:43:13 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 12:42:56 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures from an event in Sweden, last summer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> ingridgs@techarea.net 03/03/04 08:41:27 >>> The main site is here http://www.hantverkslagret.org/hantverkslagret/index.asp , and a direct link to the picture galleries is here : http://www.hantverkslagret.org/hantverkslagret/tidigare_verksamhet/kronoberg_2003/s_2003.asp . What stunning pictures! I like the rebec-player's pouch with an owl embroidered on it. _____________ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 10:04:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i23F42Sd019427 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:04:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23F3BcP000857; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:03:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23F35Kj072493; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:03:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from uranium.btinternet.com (uranium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23F33Kj072463 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:03:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stevie.gamble@btinternet.com) Received: from [81.129.18.73] (helo=dan) by uranium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1AyXtl-0005l7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 15:03:02 +0000 Message-ID: <005701c40130$e3957f60$49128151@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200403012045.i21KjqNH009956@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mid 18th c. busks and stomachers Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:04:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carol wrote: > > >Indeed, but by definition a book published 50 years ago, before even > >the Kyoto Costume Institute existed, can hardly have reflected the > >holdings of that museum. Norah Waugh died in 1966, also long before > >the foundation of the KCI. > > I'm not sure what you mean here. I was suggesting Corsets & Crinolines as > a source for more examples of stays. I didn't think C&C had drafts of any of > the stays in Kyoto, I think they are from English collections. I'm getting more confused. Waugh only gives one example of a real set of 18th century stays before 1780 and those are front lacing, dated 1730-40 of unspecified origin; see page 39. Why therefore do you suggest that Corset and Crinolines supports the view that the most common English 18th century stays were back lacing? Indeed, she stated at page 41 "There is variation also in the methods of lacing, centre back, centre front, or both; a side lacing seems to have been used for pregnancy'. Her references to Garsault and Diderot's work contained several errors, which she partially rectified in 'The Cut of Women's Clothes'. Unfortunately, her instructions on how to construct an 18th century corset on pages 153-5 of C&C reproduce those errors, and it is those comments, starting with 'There are two kinds of stays; those which are laced up the back only, and those which are laced up both back and front.' which are cited and relied upon by people who cannot be bothered to read the full text of this and all her later works. But in any event, why do you imagine that a French publication, even if she had managed to get it right, is an authoritative source on English clothing construction? I am interested in reproducing the stays worn by English aristocratic women between approximately 1750 and 1770. The relevant stays in the Kyoto collection are of English origin, and by definition are of direct relevance for my purposes. They could not have been cited by Waugh in her work published in 1954 since she did not know about them. By the time of her death in 1966 ('The Cut of Women's Clothes' was published posthumously in 1968) Norah Waugh had become aware of at least some of her errors in Garsault's work, as noted above, and its identification of corps a l'anglaise, the front lacing English stays, hence its inclusion in her last book. To take another example of the dangers of relying uncritically on her work: Waugh states categorically that hooks and eyes were not used in 18th century clothes production. That is simply not true. > > >No, it doesn't. Incidentally, Norah Waugh gives the diagram etc. of > >'corps a l'anglaise' under the heading "Eighteenth-century Tailors' > >and Dressmakers' Patterns' at page 107 The Cut of Women's Clothes, > >No.12 at the top of the page. > > I found the Diderot plates here: > http://www.contouche.de/en/1700/schnitte/s1700a.shtml You are confusing Diderot with Garsault, see my notes above. As I noted in the part of my earlier post which you have cut: > >Incidentally, Garsault asserts, in 'Description des Artes et > >Metiers', Paris, 1769, in his observations on stay makers, that > >English stays (corps a l'anglaise) lace in front, and he gives a > >diagram. > The web page identifies the English stays as closed front, and there is a > set of open-front French stays, which are both front & back lacing. Diderot > did illustrate other stays that are not on this page, so maybe you're citing a > different plate. I am citing the original plates created for Garsault's work, not the subsequent rehashes thereof. If you had read further down the web page you are citing you would have seen that the creator of the webpage gives the source as follows: 'Source: Diderot, Denis, and d'Alembert. Recueil des Planches sur les Sciences, les Arts Liberaux, et les Arts Mechaniques: Vol. IX, 1771 Note: The plates these patterns were hand-copied from are very similar to those from Description des Arts et Métiers by Garsault 1769 but still slightly different. The maker of the plates probably copied much of Garsault's "L'art du tailleur", whose plates date to the 1750s/60s.' The whole point of carefully considering the origins of illustrations and articles of any kind is that it is only too easy for alterations and errors to creep in as they are copied. > > >Actually, what I said was 'I think [it] was reasonably common practise > >judging from my research so far'. > > Right, and I wondered about that because I and other researchers think > that front-lacing-only was uncommon. But you still haven't cited any evidence which you base your opinions on. > There are a few examples, certainly > enough that making stays that way is correct. Most people I know are looking > for what was the most common or average when making repro clothing. Not, I hope, when reproducing a high fashion garment and its underpinnings. I try for accuracy. Common and average is the last thing which I want, and an English aristocratic woman of the period would have been incredulous at the idea. > >My question was as to the statistical basis of any sampling exercise; > >peoples' conclusions are not relevant to that question. But I should, > >of course, be most interested in any published research you can point > >me to on the question of aristocratic womens' stays in England during > >the relevant period. > > If you want to hear more about what is out there in other books, museums, > and private collections, I still recommend the 18cWoman list. Most listmembers > focus on American costume of the 1770s, but have looked at earlier & later > examples. As a colony of England, the prevailing fashion in America was the > same, both from imported goods and fashion magazines that came from England. I am not aware of any fashion magazines in England sent to the English colonies in America before 1770 or so. Perhaps you would identify these sources for me? The entire concept of a fashion magazine didn't exist before the early 1770's; see pages 61-63 Dress in Eighteenth Century Europe, Ribeiro, rev. edition, 2002. Dressed dolls were sent from England, predominantly to Boston, where they were hired out for people to copy, mostly not very well. As for the belief that American fashion could mirror the heights of the art achieved in Western Europe during that period, I am not aware of any garment created in the colonies which could make that claim. Again, I would be most interested in any example you could point to. I do appreciate that it may appear undemocratic, but haute couture exists on the bedrock of luxury trade and luxury industries, none of which existed in America at the time. Importing silks from Europe was, of course, possible, but without the people with the skills needed to create the garments there could be no haute couture. For that matter, the cheap knock-offs of couture garments which are mass produced today depend on an industrial revolution which had not taken place. There were no ready made dresses; all individuals in the colonies who aspired to something beyond 'Barbie dressed as an English gentlewoman' could do was to send their measurements and thus import expensive knock-offs which bore little resemblance to the real thing, or visit Europe in the hope of getting gowns made which were the real thing, but which were out of date by the time the ship had reached America on their return voyage. > > Back to front-lacing stays - the main disadvantage of front lacing stays > is you don't have the horizontal bones that give such a nice rounded shape at > the top. The effect is most pronounced in the 1780s, but the horizontal bones > were used earlier. Your assumption is ill founded; I am constructing my front lacing stays with horizontal bones, and it creates a rounded shape. Again, if you look at page 130, Fashion, you will see that the front lacing stays do have horizontal bones. > > My favorite draft is from Corsets & Crinolies, a mid-century set of stays > that lace both front & back, with a stomacher as part of the stays. I can't find these, what page are they on, please? best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 10:24:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i23FOXSd019497 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:24:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23FNwcP002778; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:23:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23FNtKj084378; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:23:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23FNqKj084295 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:23:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.1e1.1a65fb15 (14374) for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:18:33 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1e1.1a65fb15.2d775148@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:18:32 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: amiperiodornot To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/2/2004 11:37:23 PM Central Standard Time, otsisto@socket.net writes: Ok, so it was Germanic and not English but it may have happened but not painted. Arian There is also a Venetian portrait of a bride wearing off-white. It wasn't "customary" as it is today, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't done. In fact, it would have indicated the wealth and prosperity of the bride's family ::smile::. -Tiffany Reflections*of*Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 10:33:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i23FXESd019527 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:33:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23FWecP003561; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:32:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23FWdKj089525; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:32:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23FWPKj089346 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:32:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be62.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.98]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2980F262859 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:32:17 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <007c01c40134$bdfd0760$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:32:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] mid18th century busks and stomachers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i23FXESd019527 Status: RO Dear Stevie, Are you construkting your stays after garsaults pattern then? That will be very interresting to se. I have never made after those old patterns, but used Norah Waughs and Janet Arnold. In Köhlers History of Fashion, there also is an interresting pair of stays. They are back laced. The front has a linning wich is narrower than the outer fully boned part, wich makes the pointed waist curve outwards. I made this pair of stays once, and it almost killed my fingers, because it was so hard to sew the narrow piece to the larger outer layer. But the result was very beautifull. It also is very hard for the finger muscles to sew the horizontal bones on top of the vertical ones. It is a shame that you dont have a webpage, do you take any pictures of the stays you are making? I would not mind posting those on my server. I am sure that many of us would be very very interrested in seing your stays. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 13:30:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i23IUOSd020451 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:30:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23ITfcP025161; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:29:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23ITZKj020315; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:29:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20201.mail.yahoo.com (web20201.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i23ITSKj020239 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:29:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040303182246.75476.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:22:46 PST Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:22:46 -0800 (PST) From: Angela Kessler Subject: RE: [h-cost] ...this picture? and a Request To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000001c40095$ef2da690$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: > Yeah, so what is it about those pictures which > screams Victorian? I felt > the same way about it and have been trying to figure > out what it is in my > own head. Is it the realisim? Also the angle of her > head seems Victorian to > me....does that sound weird or what? > Interesting and timely (for me) discussion, as I'm currently reading "Seeing Through Clothes" by Anne Hollander. It's a very academic discussion of this very topic, the idea that at any point in history (including today) there was a general idea of what looked "normal" and "natural", and painters (and other visual artists) laid historical and allegorical details on top of that. Given the accepted baseline, a Victorian audience would see this painting as clearly historical, while our eye, at a distance, sees it as Victorian. An interesting read. ***On a related note, I would like to make a general request that when you're discussing a painting, please keep the URL in your message, even if you delete everything else from previous messages. Many of these followup comments sounded good, but I couldn't look for myself because I deleted the original post yesterday. And I have tried simply keeping the original post in case of further discussion, but then my mailbox gets cluttered with old messages because there's no trigger that a discussion is over and I can go back and delete the original reference. Thanks! -Angela __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 16:13:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i23LDmSd022150 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:13:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23LCncP014546; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:12:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23LCbKj046162; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:12:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23LCUKj046073 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:12:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f71.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.113]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CE1B25EE095 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:12:27 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003701c40164$419c5ba0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:12:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] writing an artikle X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i23LDmSd022150 Status: RO Hi, I just want to burst out a little. An american magazine called CQMagOnline has asked me to make an artikle about the waistcoat i am making with silk ribbon embroidery. This will be great fun Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 16:27:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i23LRJSd022245 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:27:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23LQNcP016220; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:26:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23LQJKj056276; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:26:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23LQIKj056194 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:26:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6280242615 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:39:57 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40464F54.107@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 15:34:12 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Modern Fashion in Detail X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can anyone tell me more about this book? I'm having a hard time finding out what the contents are, other than a single review which compares it to _Fashion in detail - 17th & 18th Century_. Is it entirely pictures? Is there any commentary? Diagrams? What are the years that are covered? My husband's employer is offering books from this publisher at half price, and this is about the only costume book we can find on the list. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 16:34:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i23LYASd022284 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:34:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23LSfcP016434; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:28:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23LScKj057869; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:28:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23LSaKj057845 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:28:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06940299pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.138.19.18]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B25061616B for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:28:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] writing an artikle Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:37:42 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003701c40164$419c5ba0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Congratulations!!! Perhaps you will get some of the recognitions you most honorably deserve for such incredible work!!! -Megan Bjarne wrote: Hi, I just want to burst out a little. An american magazine called CQMagOnline has asked me to make an artikle about the waistcoat i am making with silk ribbon embroidery. This will be great fun _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 16:39:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i23LdOSd022298 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:39:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23LKDcP015426; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:20:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23LK6Kj051664; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:20:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23LJwKj051545 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:20:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BE921B2FCB for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:19:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 24104-08 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:19:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5E1541B2FA2 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:19:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <055c01c40165$462808d0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003701c40164$419c5ba0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] writing an artikle Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:19:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Congratulations, Bjarne! You're going to be famous, and we will all say "We knew him when..."! Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:12 PM Subject: [h-cost] writing an artikle Hi, I just want to burst out a little. An american magazine called CQMagOnline has asked me to make an artikle about the waistcoat i am making with silk ribbon embroidery. This will be great fun Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 17:03:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i23M3qSd022420 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:03:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23M2icP020461; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:02:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23M2WKj083319; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:02:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f28.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23M2TKj083214 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:02:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from distantdesigns@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:45:09 -0800 Received: from 24.21.37.141 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:45:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.21.37.141] X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com] X-Sender: distantdesigns@hotmail.com From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pictures in Sweden, last summer Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:45:09 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Mar 2004 21:45:09.0554 (UTC) FILETIME=[CCB02920:01C40168] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On the last page of pictures, the second and third pics show a head wrap. Can anyone tell me how to make/wear one? It's just white with some way of wrapping it, but I love the look. Since I'm launching into 11th century I hope it fits. Either way, if someone knows how or where to find out how, please email me at distantdesigns@hotmail.com . Thanks, Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! >From: Ingrid G. Storrø >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] Pictures from an event in Sweden, last summer >Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:41:27 +0100 (CET) > >Hi, all! I only just realized that they've put up pictures from a >wonderful event I attended last summer, Hantverkslägret (Camp of Crafts) >in Kronoberg, Sweden. It was a mixed-period event, ranging mostly from >9th/10th to late 14th century, where the participants came to perform >period crafts together for a bit over a week. I thought maybe some of >you would enjoy the pictures. :) Unfortunatly it was so hot that a lot >of people left their wool layers off for the workday, especially those >working around fires, so some of the best costumes aren't pictured >because it was so dark when people put them on. :/ > >The main site is here >http://www.hantverkslagret.org/hantverkslagret/index.asp >, and a direct link to the picture galleries is >here : >http://www.hantverkslagret.org/hantverkslagret/tidigare_verksamhet/kronoberg_2003/s_2003.asp >. > >It's all in Swedish I'm afraid, but the seven picture galleries should >be easy enough to navigate anyway. :) > >Ingrid > >-- >This email has been scanned for viruses & spam by Decna as - www.decna.no >Denne E-post er sjekket for virus & spam av Decna as - www.decna.no > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage – 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 17:28:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i23MSmSd022522 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:28:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23M4pcP020718; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:04:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23M4lKj084985; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:04:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out008.verizon.net (out008pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23M4hKj084907 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:04:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp ([4.62.21.200]) by out008.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040303214652.IFHF27801.out008.verizon.net@brandyscomp> for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:46:52 -0600 Message-ID: <003c01c40169$0b6af7d0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> From: "Brandy Deming" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003701c40164$419c5ba0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] writing an artikle Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:46:53 -0800 Organization: Better Times for Small Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out008.verizon.net from [4.62.21.200] at Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:46:52 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Way to go, I am so excited for you :):):) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:12 PM Subject: [h-cost] writing an artikle Hi, I just want to burst out a little. An american magazine called CQMagOnline has asked me to make an artikle about the waistcoat i am making with silk ribbon embroidery. This will be great fun Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 17:52:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i23MqDSd022614 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:52:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23MorcP025903; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:50:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23MolKj020973; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:50:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i23MojKj020881 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:50:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Og3QVP/AcTb9HmmxWyOUR/4=">; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:50:05 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JPT5R4KP; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:50:05 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:33:45 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] writing an artikle Message-ID: <20040303.144905.1424.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-6,8-15 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Huzzah, Bjarne!! 8) Warmest congratulations, and hope this is but the start of your writing career! Arlys On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:12:37 +0100 "Bjarne og Leif Drews" writes: > Hi, > I just want to burst out a little. An american magazine called > CQMagOnline has asked me to make an artikle about the waistcoat i am > making with silk ribbon embroidery. > This will be great fun > > Bjarne ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 17:55:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i23MtxSd022625 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:55:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23MtFcP026364; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:55:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23MtEKj024055; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:55:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23MtBKj024015 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:55:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-38-155.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.38.155]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23MsBEo025712 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:54:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040303145109.06012100@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:54:59 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Modern Fashion in Detail In-Reply-To: <40464F54.107@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Can anyone tell me more about this book? Buy it. >I'm having a hard time finding out what the contents are, other than a >single review which compares it to _Fashion in detail - 17th & 18th Century_. It covers all of the 20th century, as well as can be expected from a book as short as it is. >Is it entirely pictures? Is there any commentary? Diagrams? What are the >years that are covered? Mostly images - nice clear color close-ups, with enough diagrams that you know what you're seeing in the image, and enough text to get a feel for what you're looking at. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 18:08:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i23N8FSd022693 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:08:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23N7LcP027624; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:07:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i23N7HKj032541; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:07:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i23N7CKj032493 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:07:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2004 23:00:29 -0000 Message-ID: <012901c4016c$1940f640$91e67643@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003701c40164$419c5ba0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] writing an artikle Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:08:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO woo hoo! Go Bjarne. Well, I can say how we are all NOT very surprised! Bout time, huh? Perhaps this is the beginning! I can't wait to see you on Fashion Eye for the Costume Guy... a ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:12 PM Subject: [h-cost] writing an artikle Hi, I just want to burst out a little. An american magazine called CQMagOnline has asked me to make an artikle about the waistcoat i am making with silk ribbon embroidery. This will be great fun Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 20:37:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i241bXSd023339 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:37:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i241SEcP011060; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:28:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i241S4Kj018616; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:28:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simq3-srv.bellnexxia.net (simq3.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.153]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i241RxKj018526 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:28:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.70.4.36]) by simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040303182600.GEKY21310.simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:26:00 -0500 Message-ID: <004801c4014d$7b5e3e60$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:29:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New addy, just testing... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, just checking to see if things are up and running properly... Sheridan *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* You are only young once, but you can stay immature indefinitely. Ogden Nash _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 21:07:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2427GSd023478 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:07:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2426acP014011; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:06:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2426YKj037264; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:06:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2426VKj037246 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:06:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-38-155.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.38.155]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2426LOr015151 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:06:28 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040303180550.05a37100@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:06:11 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] writing an artikle In-Reply-To: <055c01c40165$462808d0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> References: <003701c40164$419c5ba0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >and we will all say "We >knew him when..."! When what? He's famous here. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 21:17:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i242HaSd023563 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:17:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i242H1cP014768; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:17:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i242GwKj042224; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:16:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i242GuKj042203 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:16:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2424VZ08342 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:04:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AyiDu-0005Wm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:04:30 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] writing an artikle Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:04:49 -0700 Message-ID: <004501c4018d$13308560$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <003701c40164$419c5ba0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Its about time! Now we just have to get you into the Vintage Costume Mag where you so rightfully belong! Congratulations! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 21:54:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i242shSd023649 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:54:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i242rBcP017342; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:53:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i242r9Kj058954; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:53:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i242r4Kj058924 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:53:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.176.69]) by smail1.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 7833603 for ; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:48:10 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] silk ribbon embroidery Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:53:05 -0600 Message-ID: <00d801c4018b$70196190$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-reply-to: <009f01c3ffd4$cfca09e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne-- I just got back from a visit to London, and saw an example of silk ribbon embroidery on a waistcoat and jacket at Kensington Palace. The date was about 1780. The funny thing is, I thought immediately of you when I saw it. KIM -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 3:33 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] silk ribbon embroidery Hi, I have tryed very hard to find any informations about when silk ribbon embroidery was invented. A swedish website told me that it was used in the end of 18th century, for gentlemens waistcoats and jackets. It also told me that there were examples to se at Nordiska Musset in Stockholm. I know this is a little hassardious job i have done, but i absolutely fell in love with this embroidery and started to make myself a waistcoat: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm I now have 9 days to make the right side of the waistcoat + 2 pocket flaps and assembly of the waistcoat. I simply wont go without this waistcoat. Travelling to the gustavians in Sweden next thursday. Does any of you know how old silk ribbon embroidery is? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 22:43:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i243hCSd023811 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:43:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i243bdcP019823; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:37:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i243bbKj078745; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:37:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i243bUKk078708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:37:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net (acty3235.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.248.235]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i243bWgS007935 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:37:33 -0500 Message-ID: <4046A475.5050800@dandy.net> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:37:25 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. References: <4043E48C.3000805@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. I just had to chime in on this one... When I first saw this site, I thought "oh, gee, here's a place where you can go and get picked apart by any knucklehead that has an opinion" (and we know what opinions are like, yes?, and how everyone has one?) Let's face it, if you don't like potential abuse, you are probably best not suited for this site. It has the opportunity to be all bad things to all people, regardless of where their costume/clothing tradition stems from. I would like to see someone try a test... submit pictures of some well-known professionals' work and see how brutal it can get. It seems like a site where those folks who are desperate to pass on some misfortune they may have had in their life, perhaps someone who made fun of them in school or some such thing. I would hope that, aside from the odd lurk here and there from those who are looking to see how things are with the unfortunate, sad people, that most of the professionals here (and I do consider y'all to be, for the most part, professionals at historical clothing/costuming) would shy away from such obvious sophomoric shenanigans. Mike T. (who hasn't been called Bitch, at least in recent memory, and never without a "suitable" response) Bice d'Este wrote: >And yet people keep using the site. >Bice (who isn't called The Bitch for nothing) > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 3 23:44:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i244icSd024016 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:44:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i244ggcZ025038; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i244OlKj000549; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:24:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zinc.btinternet.com (zinc.btinternet.com [194.73.73.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i244OfKj000503 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:24:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stevie.gamble@btinternet.com) Received: from [81.129.18.73] (helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1AybbM-0006uH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 19:00:16 +0000 Message-ID: <008201c40152$07d71a20$49128151@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: "Historical Costume" References: <007c01c40134$bdfd0760$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] mid18th century busks and stomachers Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:02:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne wrote: >Are you construkting your stays after garsaults pattern then? As best I can, yes. I think it's probably more of a diagram than a pattern, though:-) I am more concerned with getting it to fit my somewhat unusual shape. I am very low waisted, and the gap between my ribcage and hip bone is about 3-4 cms (less than 2 inches) so bog standard tabs don't really work. It's a useful reminder that garments of these kinds had to be individually made for each person. I am adding a horizontal bone on each side at the front top. >In Köhlers History of Fashion, there also is an interresting pair of stays. They are back >laced. The front has a linning wich is narrower than the outer fully boned part, wich >makes the pointed waist curve outwards. I made this pair of stays once, and it almost >killed my fingers, because it was so hard to sew the narrow piece to the larger outer >layer. >But the result was very beautifull. >It also is very hard for the finger muscles to sew the horizontal bones on top of the vertical ones. I know! I've put the vertical and diagonal bones in machined channels in two layers of linen, but the horizontal bones I've enclosed in tape. I've then hand sewn that to the linen inside of the stays. I've put some tension on bracing the ends so that the rounded curve remains, but my fingers really don't like it! The English 'Fashion' stays show horizontal as well as vaguely vertical bones, but I don't know whether there are two layers or one. The French stays with horizontal bones seem to have two layers of boning. >It is a shame that you dont have a webpage, do you take any pictures of the stays you are making? >I would not mind posting those on my server. I am sure that many of us would be very >very interrested in seing your stays. That's very kind. What I really need is a camera which will take close-ups; my present one has to be 4 feet away, which isn't going to enlighten anyone. I shall be making another set later on, so by then I may have a camera which would be of some use best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 00:11:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i245BSSd024062 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:11:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i245AtcP027682; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:10:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i245ArKj021438; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:10:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i245AnKj021414 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:10:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A3DA1D138 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:10:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p054.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.56]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 52347C456 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:10:48 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pictures in Sweden, last summer Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:11:09 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This looks like the common working class head wrap. There are various ways to wrap and I can't seem to be able to describe how to in writing. You will need a rectangular piece of linen, silk or cotton. De From: Ingrid G. Storrø >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] Pictures from an event in Sweden, last summer >Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:41:27 +0100 (CET) > >Hi, all! I only just realized that they've put up pictures from a >wonderful event I attended last summer, Hantverkslägret (Camp of Crafts) >in Kronoberg, Sweden. It was a mixed-period event, ranging mostly from >9th/10th to late 14th century, where the participants came to perform >period crafts together for a bit over a week. I thought maybe some of >you would enjoy the pictures. :) Unfortunatly it was so hot that a lot >of people left their wool layers off for the workday, especially those >working around fires, so some of the best costumes aren't pictured >because it was so dark when people put them on. :/ > >The main site is here >http://www.hantverkslagret.org/hantverkslagret/index.asp >, and a direct link to the picture galleries is >here : >http://www.hantverkslagret.org/hantverkslagret/tidigare_verksamhet/kronober g_2003/s_2003.asp >. > >It's all in Swedish I'm afraid, but the seven picture galleries should >be easy enough to navigate anyway. :) > >Ingrid > >-- >This email has been scanned for viruses & spam by Decna as - www.decna.no >Denne E-post er sjekket for virus & spam av Decna as - www.decna.no > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage – 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 00:21:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i245LHSd024079 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:21:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i245KZcP028401; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:20:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i245KXKj025647; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:20:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i245KVKj025625 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:20:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.50]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AyiO6-0001jB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:15:02 -0800 Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AyiO2-0000Bl-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:15:00 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] ...this picture? and a Request Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:15:14 -0700 Message-ID: <004b01c4018e$8a073b10$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <20040303182246.75476.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks so much for the lead on a new read....I'll try to remember to not delete urls...makes sense to me~ Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Angela Kessler > Interesting and timely (for me) discussion, as I'm currently reading "Seeing Through Clothes" by Anne Hollander. It's a very academic discussion of this very topic, the idea that at any point in history (including today) there was a general idea of what looked "normal" and "natural", and painters (and other visual artists) laid historical and allegorical details on top of that. Given the accepted baseline, a Victorian audience would see this painting as clearly historical, while our eye, at a distance, sees it as Victorian. An interesting read. ***On a related note, I would like to make a general request that when you're discussing a painting, please keep the URL in your message, even if you delete everything else from previous messages. Many of these followup comments sounded good, but I couldn't look for myself because I deleted the original post yesterday. And I have tried simply keeping the original post in case of further discussion, but then my mailbox gets cluttered with old messages because there's no trigger that a discussion is over and I can go back and delete the original reference. Thanks! -Angela __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 01:05:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2465bSd024172 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 01:05:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24657cP001702; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:05:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24654Kj043641; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:05:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i24650Kj043616 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:05:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sarah@modehistorique.com) Received: from unknown (HELO modehistorique.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@69.105.94.28 with plain) by smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2004 05:58:20 -0000 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:58:12 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4046A475.5050800@dandy.net> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday, March 3, 2004, at 07:37 PM, michael tartaglio wrote: > would like to see someone try a test... submit pictures of some > well-known professionals' work and see how brutal it can get. Well, I don't know if you'd consider us "professionals" but people with well-known and widely referenced websites (myself and Drea, for instance) have put costumes up on AIPON and taken some pretty brutal snarking as a result. It's not like you can win either way. If people want to be jerks, they will stop at nothing. I'd also like to address the misconception that if you put Elizabethan clothing up on that site, people respond to it better. Sorry, but it's just not true. I think some of the harshest criticism has been directed at people who post late-period clothing, both fancy and "middle class". Read through the comments on the following pictures: http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=91 http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=94 http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=138 And then my personal favorite comment left regarding the image I submitted: "Your getting a one for the same reason the girl Kobe raped, you deserve it . Show some skin to win! " Yeah. We're dealing with the cream of the crop here. Also there's the vote abusers. The people who post things to people's pictures (particularly late period folks) saying "I'm giving this a 1 because I hate that everyone does Elizabethan clothing". So they vote about a zillion times, regardless of the "vote abuse" thing that logs repeat offenders' IP addresses at the bottom of most of the pages, either driving down the score or driving it up insanely high. The thing with IP addresses is that not every service provider offers a binded IP address to each subscriber. In fact, most major service providers don't do this. AOL, SBC, Earthlink, they all have multiple IP addresses so any time you log on, you're assigned a different address. So logging IP addresses is basically useless because the chances of anyone tracking it back to you via Whois or google is pretty darn slim. Anyway, I'm getting off the point. The point is that the site was originally intended to be a joke. Kirrily started it to poke fun at the "am I hot or not" sites that were popular a few years back. Whether or not it's still a joke site is in the eye of the beholder... Sarah http://www.modehistorique.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 02:02:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2472lSd025789 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 02:02:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2471WcP005064; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:01:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2471QKj064906; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:01:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2471PKj064898 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:01:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECB061CF38 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 01:01:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p054.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.56]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A94B3C4BD for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 01:01:23 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 01:01:23 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO #91 The comment about the top not being smooth or well fitted amazes me. Do they think that people in that time period have well fitted non wrinkled clothing. So people back then worked in the nude so they wouldn't have wrinkles in their cloths? Huh? #94 I came across that last night. OMG Gorgeous! Some of the people voted her less period because she used a cotton velvet, Reasoning - others used "period" fabrics on other sites (which were earlier period styles). These people do not take into account the complexity of the outfit nor do they read the reasons she ended up with choosing the cotton material. The more I look through this website the more I need to see it only once a week so that I do not get swept up in some of the stupidity (for lack of a better description). Anyway, there is not enough space to write my comments. And there seems to be commenters with hat or head cover fixation. I think it was #473 they kept saying she needed a hat (I think 90% of the sites say outfit needs a hat or head covering). Though she said it was a portrait of Isabelle of Portugal 1535, it is actually a 1548 portrait. All but 1 portrait that I have found of Isabella have no hats or head coverings. Just braid work and a few jewels. De PS other than #94 as my fav. #291 is my second fav. :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 02:35:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i247ZtSd017932 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 02:35:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i247YocP007065; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:34:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i247YiKj077154; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:34:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i247YfKj077127 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:34:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp21.pop1.net [209.102.125.71]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA07474; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:34:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp21.pop1.net [209.102.125.71] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <4046DC08.3070909@pcez.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:34:32 -0800 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume , Cathedral Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Update about pomander X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings One and All, For everyone who is interestested in hearing about my progress with the 14th-15th C. pomander. Well, last term in my jewelry class - the project hit a snag. Because my instructor insisted that I used two types of metals. Unfortunately, I found out that sterling silver and German silver do not work well together on larger pieces. But where I failed, I did get a great pair of earrings and necklace pendant (when I get the web site up and going I will place the pictures of them on the site). I was able to talk my instructor in taking me on as an independent study. This means during this coming fall term, I will be able to completely concentrate on the pomander and do it the way I want to do it. Hurray! I also found recent reference to a copper pomander of the 14th C. that was enameled, hoping to research it more and maybe recreate it in the future Even with some of these setbacks and such, I did win an art scholarship for this term and also was placed on the Dean of Education's honor roll list. -blush- Must go back to the books.... Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 02:48:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i247mMSd018172 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 02:48:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i247llcP007797; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:47:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i247lhKj082260; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:47:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i247ldKj082240 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:47:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sarah@modehistorique.com) Received: from unknown (HELO modehistorique.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@69.105.94.28 with plain) by smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2004 07:47:38 -0000 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:47:30 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <30C9FE9A-6DB0-11D8-892A-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > #91 The comment about the top not being smooth or well fitted amazes > me. Do > they think that people in that time period have well fitted non > wrinkled > clothing. So people back then worked in the nude so they wouldn't have > wrinkles in their cloths? Huh? What, doesn't everyone know that wrinkles aren't period? Seriously. Because of AIPON I've compiled a huge database of portraits painted between 1500 and 1600 of women in gowns with clearly defined stress wrinkles across the front of their bodices. I'm so sick of people either implying or saying outright that wrinkles on bodices is historically incorrect! There's a HUGE difference between a bodice that wrinkles because it's poorly fitted and one that wrinkles because it's well fitted. :P > #94 I came across that last night. OMG Gorgeous! Some of the people > voted > her less period because she used a cotton velvet, Reasoning - others > used > "period" fabrics on other sites (which were earlier period styles). > These > people do not take into account the complexity of the outfit nor do > they > read the reasons she ended up with choosing the cotton material. > The more I look through this website the more I need to see it only > once a > week so that I do not get swept up in some of the stupidity (for lack > of a > better description). My dress has a couple of comments directed at my choice of materials, too. Basically, you can rationalize and explain why you did XYZ thing in this outfit until you're blue in the face, but it goes right past 'em. Yeah, like any of us can afford true silk brocade with 100% gold threads woven through it. For me, lurex works just as well and it's affordable. Cotton velvet is totally acceptable in my book, too, especially because it has a denser quality to it than any other fiber used in affordable velvet. But there seems to be a contingency of people on AIPON who like to insist that if you can't afford to do an upper class Elizabethan gown in totally 100% historically available fabrics, you shouldn't bother. Generally, however, it's been accepted by the AIPON community that the definition of "Am I period or not" translates into "Can you plop me down in X Century and I'll blend in so well with the locals that no one would notice I'm a 21st century costumer, regardless of the fiber content of my outfit?" Because, like, everyone went around burn testing everyone elses' clothing back in the day just to make sure... ;) Sarah http://www.modehistorique.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 02:54:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i247ssSd018213 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 02:54:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i247sFcP008429; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:54:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i247sAKj085171; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:54:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i247s1Kj085126 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:54:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kendra@tweedlebop.com) Received: from unknown (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.119.192.249 with login) by smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2004 07:54:00 -0000 Message-ID: <001501c401bd$db19e2d0$0202a8c0@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:54:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Western Mass. costume museums? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I'm going to be spending next week in Northampton, Mass. doing research at Smith College. While I'm there I'm going to have one morning (Weds.) free, and I'm wondering if there are any good costume museums I should see while I'm out there? I know Historic Northampton has a costume collection, but I'm not sure what they have on view... I was all excited about going to the Memorial House Museum at Old Deerfield, but found out they don't open until later in the year :( Any recommendations? I will have a car, but like I said I'll only have until about noon for fun activities. Thanks, Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 03:26:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i248QqSd018400 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:26:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i248QFcP010506; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 01:26:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i248QBKj097464; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 01:26:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i248QAKj097448 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 01:26:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kendra@tweedlebop.com) Received: from unknown (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.119.192.249 with login) by smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2004 07:59:30 -0000 Message-ID: <000b01c401be$9f526e10$0202a8c0@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:59:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Western Mass. costume museums? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, and I should mention that I used to live in Boston, so that plus time constraints means I'm definitely looking for things to do in the Northampton area. Thanks! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 05:11:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24AB8Sd019297 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 05:11:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24A9UcP016977; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:09:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24A9PKj032975; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:09:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [194.63.250.95]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24A9MKk032939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:09:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ingridgs@techarea.net) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [127.0.0.1]) by decna.com (8.12.11.Beta0/8.12.11.Beta0/Debian-1) with ESMTP id i24AD8PE011151; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:13:08 +0100 Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by decna.com (8.12.11.Beta0/8.12.11.Beta0/Debian-1) with ESMTP id i24AD8rX011146; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:13:08 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: decna.com: ingridgs owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:13:08 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= X-X-Sender: ingridgs@decna.com To: Jennifer Sena Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pictures in Sweden, last summer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Decna-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: h-costume@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Jennifer Sena wrote: > On the last page of pictures, the second and third pics show a head wrap. > Can anyone tell me how to make/wear one? It's just white with some way of > wrapping it, but I love the look. Since I'm launching into 11th century I > hope it fits. That second picture on the last page is me (caught in an extremely unflattering moment, I must say, on top of being disheveled after standing over a dye pot and a fire in the sun all day. :) ) There's a better pic of the head wrap (and me, in an appropriate wool dress not just my underwear...) on page six, right pic in the second to last row, where you can see the wrap a bit better the way it's supposed to look. As De said these are usually done with rectangles of fabric, fine linen works well. I misplaced mine before the event however, so I used a linen triangle that I had made for some other headgear some years ago. The end result looks pretty much the same though, although I did find that I got the Maciejowski Bible look a bit better with the triangle than a rectangle. That may just mean that I've wrapped my rectangle wrong, though. :) I'll try to explain how I wrap these with words, since I'm completely unable to draw this. I start with my hair in a bun somewhere between the middle of my head and the nape of the neck. With a triangle: My triangle is a bit more than a metre long on the longest side, and about half a metre from that side down to the point. I think; I don't have it here at work to measure it. How large it needs to be also depends on head size and the amount of hair you have, so experiment with cheap fabric first. (0) if you want the look with a horizontal "stripe" across your forehead like the one I have in the pic with the red dress, make one pleat before you go to 1). )) 1) Find the middle of the longest edge and place that in the middle of your forehead, covering as much of the forehead as you want the wrap to do. 2) pull the ends back and cross them at the neck, below your bun and beneath the flap that the triangle leaves. You'll tuck that in later. 3) twist the ends so that they become fairly tight spiralled rolls 4) wrap the twisted ends up on your head 5) wrap the ends tightly along each other like when you start to tie a knot but don't actually complete it; just spiral them down each other's lengths. Pin if you need more security; I don't for this type of wrap. 6) in the back, tuck the flap down in under the rest of the now tight wrap to keep it out of the way and to cover the bun completely. With a rectangle: I find that a rectangle of about 1/2 metre x 2 metres is good, although that gives a bit more body to the wrap than what you see in the pics of me in the triangle one. Others may prefer a shorter one. (0) if you want the look with a horizontal "stripe" across your forehead like the one I have in the pic with the red dress, make one pleat before you go to 1). )) 1) Find the middle of the longest edge and place that in the middle of your forehead, covering as much of the forehead as you want the wrap to do. 2) pull the ends back and cross them at the neck, below your bun. Make sure the bun is covered with fabric. 3) twist the ends so that they become fairly tight spiralled rolls 4) wrap the twisted ends up and back down again around your head. Fiddle with it until it looks nice. 5) Depending on the length of your wrap, you may now either just wrap the ends tightly along each other like when you start to tie a knot but don't actually complete it; just spiral them down each other's lengths. Or, if you have a lot of fabric left you can bring it up to the side of you face again and pin it in place there. Is it appropriate for 11th century? I have no idea, although I have a feeling that it may not be. Where I've seen it most is 13th and early 14th century, but that may be because that's the only place I've really looked for it. ;) Ingrid -- This email has been scanned for viruses & spam by Decna as - www.decna.no Denne E-post er sjekket for virus & spam av Decna as - www.decna.no _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 05:47:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24AlISd019462 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 05:47:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24AkicP019338; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:46:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24AkfKj044887; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:46:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts12.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24AkcKj044862 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:46:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.70.4.174]) by simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040304050747.ZWNU22720.simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:07:47 -0500 Message-ID: <008501c401a7$16fc0d80$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures in Sweden, last summer Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:07:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi! All you need is a large square piece of linen or cotton folded into a triangle, (or simply a large triangular piece) that once placed will have corners long enough to wrap around your head at least once. Fold your square cloth into a triangle and center the folded part of the cloth comfortably on your forhead. Grab the two corners hanging off the sides of your head and tie them once under your hair at the back of your neck. Now to get the look in the pictures all you need to do is individually twist the heck out of the two pieces you just tied, then wrap them back over your forehead and either tuck them back in on themselves, or if they are long enough, tie them back under your hair again. To get that nice tidy cap look, now all you need to do is tuck your hair up under the remaining corner at the back of your head, grab the loose corner and tuck it in at the nape of your neck under the knot. Done! Turban style head wraps are very comfortable, and once you figure out the look you like, very easy to do. A tip I learned a few years ago for those hot hot summer events, either soak the headwrap in water before you put it on, or if you are wearing a particularily bulky wrap, tuck icecubes in around the hairline. Mmmm, frosty! :-) I hope this was helpful! Sheridan Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pictures in Sweden, last summer > On the last page of pictures, the second and third pics show a head wrap. > Can anyone tell me how to make/wear one? It's just white with some way of > wrapping it, but I love the look. Since I'm launching into 11th century I > hope it fits. Either way, if someone knows how or where to find out how, > please email me at distantdesigns@hotmail.com . > > Thanks, > > > Jennifer Sena > Distant Designs > http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi > > I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! > > > > > > >From: Ingrid G. Storrø > >Reply-To: Historical Costume > >To: h-costume@indra.com > >Subject: [h-cost] Pictures from an event in Sweden, last summer > >Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:41:27 +0100 (CET) > > > >Hi, all! I only just realized that they've put up pictures from a > >wonderful event I attended last summer, Hantverkslägret (Camp of Crafts) > >in Kronoberg, Sweden. It was a mixed-period event, ranging mostly from > >9th/10th to late 14th century, where the participants came to perform > >period crafts together for a bit over a week. I thought maybe some of > >you would enjoy the pictures. :) Unfortunatly it was so hot that a lot > >of people left their wool layers off for the workday, especially those > >working around fires, so some of the best costumes aren't pictured > >because it was so dark when people put them on. :/ > > > >The main site is here > >http://www.hantverkslagret.org/hantverkslagret/index.asp > >, and a direct link to the picture galleries is > >here : > >http://www.hantverkslagret.org/hantverkslagret/tidigare_verksamhet/kronober g_2003/s_2003.asp > >. > > > >It's all in Swedish I'm afraid, but the seven picture galleries should > >be easy enough to navigate anyway. :) > > > >Ingrid > > > >-- > >This email has been scanned for viruses & spam by Decna as - www.decna.no > >Denne E-post er sjekket for virus & spam av Decna as - www.decna.no > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _________________________________________________________________ > Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage – 4 plans to choose from! > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 06:49:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24BnDSd019768 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 06:49:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24BmbcP022359; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 04:48:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24BmWKj065494; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 04:48:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com (equinox.shaysnet.com [12.178.72.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24BmTKj065474 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 04:48:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ceu@equinox.shaysnet.com) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id i24BstLd027704; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 06:54:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 06:54:53 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis Subject: Re: [h-cost] Western Mass. costume museums? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001501c401bd$db19e2d0$0202a8c0@hopperflop2> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I live in Northampton and have only ever heard of the museum in Old Deerfield and the one at Smith. However, this year is our 350th anniversary and there are supposed to be some special exhibits/events going on. (Though, frankly, I expected a bit more. So far it's been a lecture here and there on semi-famous people who lived in the last ~150 years.) There might be something going on that hasn't been advertised. If you're going to Smith, I would actually ask them. I hear they have a fairly nice costume shop in the theatre dept plus that museum of theirs. There are also four other colleges in the area (Mt. Holyoke, UMASS at Amherst, Hampshire and Amherst College) that might have some sort of exhibit or would know of any interesting ones around. The other people I might ask are the SCAdians in the area. I'm not in the SCA (yet), but do know that NOrthampton is in Bergental (www.bergental.org?) Now that I think of it, I believe there is some sort of exhibit in Sturbridge, MA at Sturbridge Village, but it is 1 1/2 hours away from NOrthampton. Please feel free to email me privately if you have more questions about Northampton! (ceu@shaysnet.com) Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 10:09:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24F9SSd020919 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:09:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24F8bcP006643; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:08:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24F8WKj044578; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:08:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14008.mail.yahoo.com (web14008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i24F8UKj044556 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:08:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040304150147.18402.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:01:47 GMT Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:01:47 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think because RenFaires have been so popular for awhile now, than many people consider themselves experts in late period clothing. If there were more fairs that focused on 12th, 13th & 14th century eras, the same phenomena might occur for that. I'd like to have some of that gold fabric from 291. > > I'd also like to address the misconception that if > you put Elizabethan > clothing up on that site, people respond to it > better. Sorry, but it's > just not true. I think some of the harshest > criticism has been > directed at people who post late-period clothing, > both fancy and > "middle class". Read through the comments on the > following pictures: > > http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=91 > http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=94 > http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=138 > > And then my personal favorite comment left regarding > the image I > submitted: > > "Your getting a one for the same reason the girl > Kobe raped, you > deserve it . Show some skin to win! " > > Yeah. We're dealing with the cream of the crop > here. > > Also there's the vote abusers. The people who post > things to people's > pictures (particularly late period folks) saying > "I'm giving this a 1 > because I hate that everyone does Elizabethan > clothing". So they vote > about a zillion times, regardless of the "vote > abuse" thing that logs > repeat offenders' IP addresses at the bottom of most > of the pages, > either driving down the score or driving it up > insanely high. The > thing with IP addresses is that not every service > provider offers a > binded IP address to each subscriber. In fact, most > major service > providers don't do this. AOL, SBC, Earthlink, they > all have multiple > IP addresses so any time you log on, you're assigned > a different > address. So logging IP addresses is basically > useless because the > chances of anyone tracking it back to you via Whois > or google is pretty > darn slim. > > Anyway, I'm getting off the point. The point is > that the site was > originally intended to be a joke. Kirrily started > it to poke fun at > the "am I hot or not" sites that were popular a few > years back. > Whether or not it's still a joke site is in the eye > of the beholder... > > Sarah > http://www.modehistorique.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 10:12:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24FCaSd020942 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:12:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24FBfcP006976; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:11:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24FBeKj046417; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:11:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24FBYKj046363 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:11:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bede.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.222]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5418847FE98 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:11:25 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002401c401fa$fd6f2d30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00d801c4018b$70196190$0201a8c0@kimathlon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk ribbon embroidery Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:11:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Kim. A big big hug to you for that! To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 2:53 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] silk ribbon embroidery > Bjarne-- > > I just got back from a visit to London, and saw an example of silk > ribbon embroidery on a waistcoat and jacket at Kensington Palace. The > date was about 1780. The funny thing is, I thought immediately of you > when I saw it. > > KIM > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 3:33 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] silk ribbon embroidery > > Hi, > I have tryed very hard to find any informations about when silk ribbon > embroidery was invented. A swedish website told me that it was used in > the end of 18th century, for gentlemens waistcoats and jackets. It also > told me that there were examples to se at Nordiska Musset in Stockholm. > I know this is a little hassardious job i have done, but i absolutely > fell in love with this embroidery and started to make myself a > waistcoat: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillesuit.htm > I now have 9 days to make the right side of the waistcoat + 2 pocket > flaps and assembly of the waistcoat. I simply wont go without this > waistcoat. Travelling to the gustavians in Sweden next thursday. > Does any of you know how old silk ribbon embroidery is? > > Bjarne > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 10:39:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24FddSd021070 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:39:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24FcNcP009494; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:38:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24FcIKj062178; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:38:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9407.mail.yahoo.com (web9407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i24FcFKj062144 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:38:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040304153815.37245.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:38:15 PST Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:38:15 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update about pomander To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4046DC08.3070909@pcez.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Congrats --and well done!--cannot wait to see the pics-- Albra Roscelin wrote: Greetings One and All, For everyone who is interestested in hearing about my progress with the 14th-15th C. pomander. Well, last term in my jewelry class - the project hit a snag. Because my instructor insisted that I used two types of metals. Unfortunately, I found out that sterling silver and German silver do not work well together on larger pieces. But where I failed, I did get a great pair of earrings and necklace pendant (when I get the web site up and going I will place the pictures of them on the site). I was able to talk my instructor in taking me on as an independent study. This means during this coming fall term, I will be able to completely concentrate on the pomander and do it the way I want to do it. Hurray! I also found recent reference to a copper pomander of the 14th C. that was enameled, hoping to research it more and maybe recreate it in the future Even with some of these setbacks and such, I did win an art scholarship for this term and also was placed on the Dean of Education's honor roll list. -blush- Must go back to the books.... Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 10:48:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24FmUSd021105 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:48:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24FlrcP010501; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:47:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24FlnKj068148; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:47:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from TheWorld.com (pcls2.std.com [192.74.137.142]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24FlkKj068112 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:47:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sparrow@TheWorld.com) Received: from shell.TheWorld.com (root@shell01.theworld.com [192.74.137.71]) by TheWorld.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i24Fh67O023425 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:43:06 -0500 Received: from localhost (sparrow@localhost) by shell.TheWorld.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24246423 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:43:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shell01.TheWorld.com: sparrow owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:43:06 -0500 From: "M. Burns" X-X-Sender: sparrow@shell01-g To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Western Mass. costume museums? In-Reply-To: <200403041509.i24F9OKl045032@net.indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > something going on that hasn't been advertised. If you're going to > Smith, I would actually ask them. I hear they have a fairly nice costume > shop in the theatre dept plus that museum of theirs. There are also four > other colleges in the area (Mt. Holyoke, UMASS at Amherst, Hampshire and > Amherst College) that might have some sort of exhibit or would know of > any interesting ones around. > Now that I think of it, I believe there is some sort of exhibit in > Sturbridge, MA at Sturbridge Village, but it is 1 1/2 hours away from > NOrthampton. Hello - I'm a Sturbridge native and a Smith alum. I've worked in the Smith costume shop, but unfortunately I do not believe that they have much in the way of actual period garments there, nor if memory serves anywhere to display them if they did. Deerfield would be the only obvious choice in the neighborhood that I know of, but sadly they are seasonal. I would call Historic Northampton (www.historic-northampton.org) and see whether they might be able to show you some of their collection, as they have a large and fascinating collection including all kinds of clothing, quilts, etc. Sturbridge is an hour from Northampton along the Mass Pike. I don't believe that Old Sturbridge Village a clothing exhibit up at the moment, though it's a pleasant enough "living history" museum. It's probably not worth the drive if you're only interested in costume items, though admission is half price through the end of March. Cheers, Maura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 10:58:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24FwfSd021139 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:58:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24FtjcP011130; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:55:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24FtfKj072977; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:55:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scc074.its.state.nc.us (scc074.its.state.nc.us [207.4.22.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24FteKj072915 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:55:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Ellen.Dappert@ncmail.net) Received: from scc074.its.state.nc.us (127.0.0.1) by scc074.its.state.nc.us (6.5.029) id 401CD5830017798E for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:55:33 -0500 Received: from ncmail.net (207.4.90.6) by scc074.its.state.nc.us (6.5.029) id 401CD58000171AA5 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:55:33 -0500 Message-ID: <4047518F.5899A7A6@ncmail.net> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 10:55:59 -0500 From: Ellen Dappert Organization: NC-DJJDP / District 26 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200403041509.i24F9OKk045032@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] random thoughts from a damaged short term memory X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kyoto is a wonderful reference. I sleep with mine sometimes. But I suspect they have their own slant on things. Like, their curatorial slant is toward things that are shiny. And things that are Oriental/Japanese inspired or European/American but made of oriental Fabric. I still love both the Revolution In Fashion books and that big Fashion book the one with all the 18th , 19th/ and 20th cent stuff. I just wish the Big Fashion book had a few more footnotes and accession information. When comparing pictures and notes in Revolution in Fashion and pictures in Big Fashion, I suspect that some of the articles and accessories pictured are reconstructions, or remakes using original and period materials. And thanks for the comments on Patterns of fashion. I've slept with that too. Knowing that the pieces are not proofed like comercial patterns, and might not fit together quite right/tight is a great help. Mia in Charlotte next week, HM 64th of Foot _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 11:02:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24G2OSd021231 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:02:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24G0JcP011594; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:00:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24G0HKj075984; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:00:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m3.nyc.untd.com (m3.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i24G04Kj075740 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:00:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from btana@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"MW/ewWa+Q2FG65sHxVDc3VwNtHx2emBXFjtVpAeME2QdCGQRiAmz1Q==">; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:59:52 PST Received: (from btana@juno.com) by m3.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JPVYPNYU; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:59:52 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:03:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY Message-ID: <20040304.090515.952.0.btana@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,3-12,27,40,44-47,49-51 From: btana@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:01:47 +0000 (GMT) =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= writes: > I think because RenFaires have been so popular for > awhile now, than many people consider themselves > experts in late period clothing. If there were more > fairs that focused on 12th, 13th & 14th century eras, > the same phenomena might occur for that. > I'd like to have some of that gold fabric from 291. > You know, I've been reading this thread, and read the comments that were posted at the site about a couple pieces someone had put up there. Considering what I've seen said, just on the few notes here about the pictures posted, I've been considering posting some of the "period" stuff I've done, just to see how "period" they comment that it is. It all depends on the period, (Granted I KNOW we're discussing actual HISTORICAL periods here) but at least at the AZ Ren, folks knew what my hubby was talking about when he would say 10th Age (or whatever it was) of the Hyborean period. I love historical costume and am capable of doing it, but I do more fantasy "historical" as witnessed on my costume website listed in my sig (index page loads slow). It's just that there's too much that you have to worry about alot of the time, especially for LH groups. The advantage to fantasy is, I can easily take anything they would say with a grain, because we don't do actual, factual historical garb. The group I'm with (in Denver, CO area) takes their costume ideas from various fantasy based movies and television. Alot of them are the Hyborean period, one has a more mongolian look to him, I come more out of Xena and Hercules television programs. Heck, one of my planned pieces of armor is from old pictures of Thor, when they had the episode with him on the old Bill Bixby series, "The Incredible Hulk". I've also got some dragon warrior armor that I want to do, and it will be a matched set with hubby's. So, if anyone is going to the convention at the Marriot in Denver April 16th-18th, give a shout. The barbarian horde with be wandering about, as well as hanging out in the bar. I'll see about getting a pic posted of the best group shot currently available (not everyone was there... including myself), somewhere on the net and if you're interested, I'll post the link back here. OK, time for breathing medicine again. Got three days off work because of it, so I need to also hit the fabric for some costume accessories I need to get done by con as well. So much to do, so little time! Astrid Never argue with a dragon, for thou art crunchy and go well with Brie. http://www.geocities.com/tul_juriss - for links to ALL my current sites http://www.geocities.com/astridofthehorde - costumes I've made http://www.geocities.com/house_qul_mupwi - The noble Klingon House http://www.geocities.com/klingon_pirates_guild - The Klingon Pirate's Guild ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 11:50:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24GoXSd021453 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:50:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24GnDcP016621; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:49:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24Gn8Kj009468; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:49:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24Gn3Kj009375 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:49:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.199.26b47271 (3699) for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:43:49 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <199.26b47271.2d78b6c4@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:43:48 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/4/2004 10:01:14 AM Central Standard Time, btana@juno.com writes: I love historical costume and am capable of doing it, but I do more fantasy "historical" as witnessed on my costume website listed in my sig (index page loads slow). I think my biggest problem with killing myself for accuracy is this: no matter HOW HARD you try, how much time you put in, how much research you do, how much money you spend, you will STILL arrive at your first event in your ultra accurate garb, and some self-appointed Garb Grand Pooh-Bah will walk up to you, look you over head to toe, and comment upon the fact that your trim is inaccurate and your bodice doesn't have the right silhouette. So I try to stay within the bounds of reason, and just have fun. If people have a problem with it they can go discuss it with the guy in the plaid flannel kilt. -Tiff _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 11:58:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24GwbSd021487 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:58:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24GdecP015630; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:39:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24GdaKj002836; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:39:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24GdVKj002724 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:39:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.14.) id 6.54.242e99ea (3699) for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:34:12 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <54.242e99ea.2d78b484@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:34:12 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] My personal favorite critique ROFL To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Spot on. What wonderfully awful period colors. Is it Goose Turd or Flea?" -Tiff _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 12:00:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24H0PSd021494 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:00:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24GxBcP017673; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:59:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24Gx6Kj016363; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:59:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24Gx3Kj016312 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:59:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu (vcs077.vet.cornell.edu [128.253.111.77]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i24Gx2FM001385 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:59:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040304115420.01a5d898@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:59:06 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: <199.26b47271.2d78b6c4@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Not quite so bad: was LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Tiff... With respect, I disagree with your statement. Tiff wrote: "no matter HOW HARD you try, how much time you put in, how much research you do, how much money you spend, you will STILL arrive at your first event in your ultra accurate garb, and some self-appointed Garb Grand Pooh-Bah will walk up to you, look you over head to toe, and comment upon the fact that your trim is inaccurate and your bodice doesn't have the right silhouette." I know this scenario has happened to some folks, but not to everyone, and not everytime. Sincerely, Bridgette _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 12:06:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24H6aSd021521 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:06:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24H52cP018234; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24H50Kj020355; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:05:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24H4uKj020264 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:04:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.114.2faafb39 (3699) for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:04:45 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <114.2faafb39.2d78bbad@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:04:45 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Not quite so bad: was LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/4/2004 10:59:39 AM Central Standard Time, ms154@cornell.edu writes: I know this scenario has happened to some folks, but not to everyone, and not everytime. Sincerely, Bridgette It was meant to be kind of humorous and tongue-in-cheek. Everyone who researches historical costume has arrived at a unique view on what is and is not period because they've all gotten there through different sources. What I have read in one source is absolutely documented and accurate, someone else may have read in a different source is a total anachronism. So especially when you're trying to recreate Medieval or Renaissance era garb, you can come up with what your research has told you is perfectly period, but still have others (who are also well-educated and researched) disagree with what you're wearing. If Drea Leed is getting snarked at on that site, then *no one* is safe! -Tiff _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 12:31:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24HVNSd021625 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:31:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24HDUcP019302; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:13:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24HDQKj026352; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:13:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24HDOKj026247 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:13:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2FE42615 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:27:07 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40476598.8040100@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:21:28 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks (was: LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY References: <199.26b47271.2d78b6c4@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <199.26b47271.2d78b6c4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > you will STILL arrive at your first event in your ultra > accurate garb, and some self-appointed Garb Grand Pooh-Bah will walk up to you, > look you over head to toe, and comment upon the fact that your trim is > inaccurate and your bodice doesn't have the right silhouette. You know, I've made some pretty awful 'garb' in the past, and a lot of fantasy inspired apparel, and worn it to all kinds of events, and nobody has ever said an unkind thing to me about it. Well, one person did comment that I was "dressed down" once, but I don't know if I could call that an insult, as I was wearing a rather plain t-tunic at the time. I have received lots of compliments, anywhere from 'you look nice' unspecific ones, to words like "I love the hat" and "you look very period." And my personal favorites, overheard by friends and told to me later, are when bystanders who think they are out of earshot whisper "I want THAT outfit" when I walk past. I kind of wish that 20 years ago someone had said something to me, and pointed me on the right track, because as a beginner I had no clue what I was doing. On the other hand, I have no idea how to approach someone who probably needs help, now that I do know what I'm doing. Which is probably why I have the passive website for people who are looking to find. Anyway, has anyone here ever really had a 'garb snark' in their face? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 12:32:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24HW1Sd021630 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:32:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24HV1cP021210; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24HUtKj039784; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:30:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24HUhKj039619 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:30:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.130.142]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C67B6FEC1 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:30:40 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:34:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY Message-ID: <4046F80A.25496.27C26446@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199.26b47271.2d78b6c4@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I think my biggest problem with killing myself for accuracy is this: > no matter HOW HARD you try, how much time you put in, how much > research you do, how much money you spend, you will STILL arrive at > your first event in your ultra accurate garb, and some self-appointed > Garb Grand Pooh-Bah will walk up to you, look you over head to toe, > and comment upon the fact that your trim is inaccurate and your bodice > doesn't have the right silhouette. I think that this does happen. I certainly happened to me. However, despite the feeling that it is, in the SCA, the "Laurels" doing this, it's been my observation that it is more than likely a laurel- wannabee. You know, the ones who think that they know something but it isn't reflected in what they say or do. My very first event I had made a 12th C gown based on some drawings in Kohler (hey, it was one of the few around, but I didn't go for the "breast bag" stuff. I used it mostly for the sleeves.) I had made the pattern myself (although now I know it should have been rectangular construction rather than a modified princess seamed dress.) I was quite proud of it, but knew that there were problems. (I had put the train on wrong on the pattern and didn't discover it until I had cut it so I had to do some creative recutting to switch the sides of just the bottom of the train. I had also used a zipper over which I had put criss-crossed lacings.) I was standing after dinner looking out the window when a woman in a vaguely Italian Renaissance costume made of acetate lining taffeta with some of the worst gathering at the waist comes up to me and says, "Your train should be lined" and walks up. No preamble to a conversation, just "wham!" and walks off. I stood there in amazement that someone in such a badly constructed, badly fitted dress could do that. Her husband must have seen it and been embarrassed because he came up and told me "she must really admire your work. She rarely criticizes anything anyone does unless she thinks they know what they are doing. By the way, she is the one who helps people make their clothing and has made most all of the clothes that people in our canton wear. I'm so proud of her. She just got her award of arms (the lowest level award in the SCA) last week." Then he just walked off. (I still hadn't said a word to either of them. I just stared in continued amazement. However, at least I knew it wasn't one of the *real* top level costumers.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 12:39:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24HdTSd021696 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:39:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24HcOcP021844; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:38:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24HcHKj044938; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:38:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24HcGKj044917 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:38:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu (vcs077.vet.cornell.edu [128.253.111.77]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i24HcFFM012921 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:38:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040304123626.01a7ca10@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:38:18 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Not quite so bad: was LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY In-Reply-To: <114.2faafb39.2d78bbad@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AH! I didn't see your intent. ooops. Now I understand. - Thanks for the clarification... ; > Bridgette >It was meant to be kind of humorous and tongue-in-cheek. > >-Tiff _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 12:50:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24HojSd021804 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:50:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24HnqcP023377; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:49:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24HnlKj054027; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:49:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from thrednedlestrete.com (mail02.enterhost.com [69.93.13.234]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24HngKj053856 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:49:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:49:35 -0600 Message-Id: <200403041149.AA448004352@thrednedlestrete.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Cc: Subject: [h-cost] getting period colours right X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just thought I would mention that Aurora Silk offers a thread chart see http://www.aurorasilk.com/shop/thread_samples.shtml which contains samples of silk dyed with natural dyes. Comes with a listing of what dyestuff was used for which threads. I'm finding it most useful to assist in my colour/thread selections! Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 12:57:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24HvMSd021841 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:57:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24HtecP024058; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:55:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24HtZKj058270; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:55:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav20.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24HtXKj058181 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:55:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:38:09 -0800 Received: from 24.58.109.191 by bay1-dav20.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:38:05 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.109.191] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <199.26b47271.2d78b6c4@aol.com> <40476598.8040100@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks (was: LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:37:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Mar 2004 17:38:09.0963 (UTC) FILETIME=[75EFC7B0:01C4020F] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To be blunt. Hell yes. Years ago I had gone to one of my first SCA-type events and wore what was admittedly a really bad gown I was last minute attending and hadn't even planned on going. Some worthy walked up and began to pick the dress apart. I stood silently while she circled and said not a thing until she was done and standing in front of me. She was still bitching about machine stitches and lack of effort and how this was wrong and I wasn't making an attempt at accuracy in my clothing etc. While she continued to talk I simply reached up and took her glasses off her face polished them ostentatiously and placed them back on her startled face, bowed and walked away. She still avoids me at events (the few I attend) and when someone asked me why I had done it I explained that the incongruity of her screaming about no effort at looking period while she wore black cat's eye glasses was simply too much for me. (I wear contacts to events) What's sad is it's not the only time I've been *snarked*. And don't even start on my Cow-hardie. Bice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks (was: LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY > Anyway, has anyone here ever really had a 'garb snark' in their face? > > > > Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 13:11:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24IBRSd021940 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:11:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24IAScP026233; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:10:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24IAMKj069361; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:10:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9402.mail.yahoo.com (web9402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i24I9lKj068926 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:09:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040304180946.90499.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 10:09:46 PST Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:09:46 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4046F80A.25496.27C26446@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually I agree , that it is more frequently the 'Laurel wannabees' that I've heard the must blunt remarks from in the SCA. And I've heard stuff off and on for the whole 32 years I've been in. I received a Laurel 20 some odd years ago. But we all continue to try to grow and hopefully get better with age---and as I've learned something new --and gotten better research sources--(not least of which has been all the wonderful shared knowledge and inspirations from you folks!)I've tried to incorporate this 'newly found' knowledge--into my latest clothing. But no matter ---while I've often gotten encouraging remarks--or constructive critcism--(which I always welcome)--there is usually some Self Styled Grand Pooh-Bah---with an indelicately worded comment--or sometimes it just takes the form of "The Look". You know the one I'm talking about---you can watch the eyes track every single item on your outfit that does not meet with their approval, as they silently purse their lips .! When I wear my Laurel medallion I won't hear many comments to my face--although I might get "The Look'. However, if I go to an multiKingdom event---without that medallion around my neck--I might hear ALL sorts of comments. Usually NOT from other Laurels. Although, one of my very favorite was --'Really , My Lady, you need to show this to a Laurel':) I take it all with a wheelbarrow's worth of salt anymore.I'm going to continue to learn all I can and keep trying to reproduce the best re-creation clothing I possibly can--but above all to enjoy it --and the like-minded folks I've met along the way! Cheers and Best-- Albra kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > I think my biggest problem with killing myself for accuracy is this: > no matter HOW HARD you try, how much time you put in, how much > research you do, how much money you spend, you will STILL arrive at > your first event in your ultra accurate garb, and some self-appointed > Garb Grand Pooh-Bah will walk up to you, look you over head to toe, > and comment upon the fact that your trim is inaccurate and your bodice > doesn't have the right silhouette. I think that this does happen. I certainly happened to me. However, despite the feeling that it is, in the SCA, the "Laurels" doing this, it's been my observation that it is more than likely a laurel- wannabee. You know, the ones who think that they know something but it isn't reflected in what they say or do. My very first event I had made a 12th C gown based on some drawings in Kohler (hey, it was one of the few around, but I didn't go for the "breast bag" stuff. I used it mostly for the sleeves.) I had made the pattern myself (although now I know it should have been rectangular construction rather than a modified princess seamed dress.) I was quite proud of it, but knew that there were problems. (I had put the train on wrong on the pattern and didn't discover it until I had cut it so I had to do some creative recutting to switch the sides of just the bottom of the train. I had also used a zipper over which I had put criss-crossed lacings.) I was standing after dinner looking out the window when a woman in a vaguely Italian Renaissance costume made of acetate lining taffeta with some of the worst gathering at the waist comes up to me and says, "Your train should be lined" and walks up. No preamble to a conversation, just "wham!" and walks off. I stood there in amazement that someone in such a badly constructed, badly fitted dress could do that. Her husband must have seen it and been embarrassed because he came up and told me "she must really admire your work. She rarely criticizes anything anyone does unless she thinks they know what they are doing. By the way, she is the one who helps people make their clothing and has made most all of the clothes that people in our canton wear. I'm so proud of her. She just got her award of arms (the lowest level award in the SCA) last week." Then he just walked off. (I still hadn't said a word to either of them. I just stared in continued amazement. However, at least I knew it wasn't one of the *real* top level costumers.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 13:30:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24IUfSd022199 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:30:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24HjocP022836; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:45:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24HjkKj050794; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:45:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24HjhKk050672 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:45:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i24Hxoo8002230 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:59:51 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040304094144.00ba6bc8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:45:36 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance In-Reply-To: <199.26b47271.2d78b6c4@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] the guy in the plaid flannel kilt X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey! That's my hubby you're snarking! It's made from a nice warm flannel sheet and I think he looks *oh so handsome* in it! > the guy in the plaid flannel kilt. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 13:35:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24IYxSd022263 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:35:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24IY6cP028764; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:34:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24IY2Kj086609; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:34:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24IXtKk086527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:33:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i24IWw7j002982 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:32:59 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 13:32:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40477696.2060304@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 13:33:58 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks References: <199.26b47271.2d78b6c4@aol.com> <40476598.8040100@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bice d'Este wrote: > And don't even start on my Cow-hardie. You're not the lady with the delightfully silly cowhardie (cotehardie out of cow print fabric) in western PA, are you? I saw one there years ago when visiting an event with a friends' family. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 13:46:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24IkQSd022386 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:46:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24IidcP029730; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:44:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24IibEa093835; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:44:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out006.verizon.net (out006pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24IiVEa093781 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:44:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jauncourt@verizon.net) Received: from verizon.net ([4.12.175.251]) by out006.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040304183204.HULI1634.out006.verizon.net@verizon.net> for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:32:04 -0600 Message-ID: <40477637.7090309@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:32:23 -0600 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-CA; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en, en-ca MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] My personal favorite critique ROFL References: <200403041756.i24HuNKk058840@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [4.12.175.251] at Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:32:04 -0600 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com wrote: > "Spot on. What wonderfully awful period colors. Is it Goose Turd or Flea?" Mine is from one of my entries http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=16 : "If you're a Norman, why viking dress?" That one has me rolling on the ground with its sheer cluelessness everytime i look at the comments page, but overall, most of the comments that this one got, save for the TRULY out there, were curious or positive. I was pretty surprised, really. I also got wrinkles =/= period on this one: http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=133 Which has a lot of things wrong with it, most obviously that the headgear is 100 years after the gown... Which nobody really picked up on! More commentary on how it's bright blue (No, really , I had not noticed that..), people disliked the background I chose (It's garish, but garish IS period), etc. Lots of people like this one too. Note to Robin: Please don't take my necessarily curt descriptions of the sleeve cut on this gown badly. I used your name so that readers would be able to immediately know the method of cut I used. While I did cut these sleeves very like the method you give in your TI article (which I do have a copy of), and was happy with them at the time (1998), AND I think the shape is a period shape, I don't really think that they were constructed in this manner. It's too wasteful of fabric, and I don't like how the seam makes them hang (Especially the bias part). I'm putting up a page on my theory of how this particular sleeve was possibly cut and I'll let teh list know when I've got it done and up. OTOH, I had some REALLY horrible reactions to both of the images of my German gown that I posted (A group image and then a requested detail of only me and my gown). Someone out there really dislikes me, or someone who looks like me, personally, I guess. I got quite a number of accusations, claiming that I must have psted my face on someone else's image, and in general lots of very cruel and unnecessary comments. http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=164 http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=174 I'm not really sure why this gown is so much more likely to cause abusive reactions than the others. M. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 13:58:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24IwTSd022466 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:58:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24IuccP000863; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:56:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24IuUEa002287; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:56:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav48.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24IuQEa002169 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:56:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:39:04 -0800 Received: from 24.58.109.191 by bay1-dav48.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:39:04 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.109.191] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <199.26b47271.2d78b6c4@aol.com> <40476598.8040100@reddawn.net> <40477696.2060304@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:39:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Mar 2004 18:39:04.0328 (UTC) FILETIME=[F81BA080:01C40217] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't think it is although I have done events in PA. It was a silly garment though tragically lost in a rubbermaid tote on a concret flor in a storage unit. But man it was a fun dress. B~ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks > Bice d'Este wrote: > > > And don't even start on my Cow-hardie. > > You're not the lady with the delightfully silly cowhardie (cotehardie > out of cow print fabric) in western PA, are you? I saw one there years > ago when visiting an event with a friends' family. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > Vote early, vote often! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 14:16:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24JGLSd022545 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:16:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24J44cP001791; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:04:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24J40Ea007864; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:04:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24J3pEa007747 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:03:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AFC21D3B6 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:03:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p421.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.167]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7E095D4AF for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:03:48 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:03:50 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <20040304150147.18402.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Whole new meaning to the Golden Fleece. :) De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 14:26:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24JQmSd022586 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:26:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JG6cP003245; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:16:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JG5Ea017106; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:16:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JG1Ea017063 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:16:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08586 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:46:28 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:46:28 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My personal favorite critique ROFL In-Reply-To: <40477637.7090309@verizon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, Maura Folsom wrote: > Note to Robin: Please don't take my necessarily curt descriptions of > the sleeve cut on this gown badly. Oh, I hadn't even seen it! But now I've looked. Not to worry. I expect people will have different ways of doing things; it's in the comparison and discussion that we learn. I'll be interested in seeing what you came up with in the "subsequent research" you mentioned. I also generally figure things weren't just done one way -- there's a lot of time and geography to cover, and lots of room for variation within a style. The reason I came up with the method I use, as the article explains, is that I believe that the sleeve shape with the narrow hanging cuffs developed out of the offcut of the body pieces, as the body cutting changed to be more fitted. I also like the fact that the entire dress, using that method, can be cut without any measuring or marking tools, numeric calculations, or patterns. I can certainly make a slightly more economical cut, but it requires having a pattern. (Theoretically, after the original dress is done, a second could be made with a different cut, using the sleeve shape from the first as a template, though I don't think the gain is significant.) But I'm curious what you found wasteful. Even cut as is, mine don't have a lot of waste -- the shavings you take off to make the curves are quite minimal. Oh -- I see -- you were referring to the earlier (trumpet-sleeve) cut? Yes, I think that can be done in a number of ways. But even the way I have is not particularly wasteful, and does satisfy my "can I do it patternless" criterion. I'd be interested in knowing of other methods that produce the same shape and can be done straight from brain to cloth, on period-width fabric, without measuring devices or calculations. I will confess that I didn't spend a lot of time looking for variants to achieve the trumpet-shape. My interest was on the "why" regarding the weird and counterintuitive narrow cuff fashion, which turned out to be concurrent with the body changes -- something I don't think was coincidental. I included the trumpet-sleeve version in the article as a starting point, to illustrate the contrast that occurred with the later, stranger cut. Whoa-ho. I just re-read your post: > While I did cut these sleeves very like the method you give in your TI > article (which I do have a copy of), and was happy with them at the > time (1998), AND I think the shape is a period shape, I don't really > think that they were constructed in this manner. It's too wasteful of > fabric, and I don't like how the seam makes them hang (Especially the > bias part). So you weren't working from my article (originally published in the Costume Research Journal in 2001, reprinted in 2002). Hmm, take a closer look. Perhaps what you did *wasn't* the same as I have it. BTW, the sleeves with the pendant cuffs are pieced, mid-arm. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 14:27:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24JRpSd022594 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:27:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JO6cP003936; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:24:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JO2Ea025744; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:24:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JNwEa025673 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:23:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257F71D4CA for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:23:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p421.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.167]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id EE2C2D4B1 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:23:56 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] My personal favorite critique ROFL Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:23:59 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <40477637.7090309@verizon.net> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=16 : "If you're a Norman, why viking dress?" *I can't believe the fake braid comment. I want to say, here let me find out who you are and come over and shear your head for some real hair for her. Then it won't look fake. *I noticed that on #174 that though you say ignore the hat, they critic it anyway. (Have some theories about construction of this style of dress but haven't had the time to do the research.) De > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 14:28:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24JRxSd022597 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:28:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JBpcP002806; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:11:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JBnEa013578; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:11:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JBiEb013522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:11:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i24JAl7j003516 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:10:47 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:10:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40477F72.5080102@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:11:46 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My personal favorite critique ROFL References: <200403041756.i24HuNKk058840@net.indra.com> <40477637.7090309@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <40477637.7090309@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maura Folsom wrote: > http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=164 > http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=174 > > I'm not really sure why this gown is so much more likely to cause > abusive reactions than the others. I think it's the photo, not the gown. You had to do a lot to the image to make it of any use (as you say), and thus there are lots of little color/contrast things that just don't read as natural. So these subtle problems just make people react badly, without understanding why, and they come up with rationalizations about the gown or the hat or whatever. I bet if you had a photo taken of you in natural/outdoor light, against an anonymous background, and posted it, you wouldn't get the weird and illogical comments. Since we're talking about illogical, this one is also my, um, work. I posted it to see what the reaction would be to a nonstandard medieval image (weird hat, extra long train, figured lining on a houp.) Clearly some folks enjoyed having something that wasn't a real person to pretend to be as vicious as others were to real folks, but some had fits of the "we're too serious to have fun" variety. I particularly like criticsms of photoshop technique, considering it only took me about 10 minutes. http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=312 -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 14:33:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24JXTSd022634 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:33:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JUhcP004589; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:30:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JUeEa032733; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:30:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JUbEa032702 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:30:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bede.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.222]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AF65548015A for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:24:25 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001e01c4021e$5bdd22f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:24:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] garb snarks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i24JXTSd022634 Status: RO Hi. Last year when i came to my first event ever in "Gustafs Skål" in Sweden, i was velkomed very warmhearted. The worst critic told me i was the best he had ever seen. That warmed my heart! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 14:36:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24JaJSd022649 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:36:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JZAcP005024; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:35:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JZ7Ea035887; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:35:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav72.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JYxEa035735 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:35:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:17:35 -0800 Received: from 24.58.109.191 by bay1-dav72.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:17:35 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.109.191] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200403041756.i24HuNKk058840@net.indra.com><40477637.7090309@verizon.net> <40477F72.5080102@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My personal favorite critique ROFL Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:17:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Mar 2004 19:17:35.0543 (UTC) FILETIME=[59B30C70:01C4021D] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yup. You just earned more of my respect Cynthia. Delightfully naughty. Makes me want to put my cat in a ruff and attifet and post her picture. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] My personal favorite critique ROFL > Maura Folsom wrote: > > http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=164 > > http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=174 > > > > I'm not really sure why this gown is so much more likely to cause > > abusive reactions than the others. > > I think it's the photo, not the gown. You had to do a lot to the image > to make it of any use (as you say), and thus there are lots of little > color/contrast things that just don't read as natural. So these subtle > problems just make people react badly, without understanding why, and > they come up with rationalizations about the gown or the hat or whatever. > > I bet if you had a photo taken of you in natural/outdoor light, against > an anonymous background, and posted it, you wouldn't get the weird and > illogical comments. > > Since we're talking about illogical, this one is also my, um, work. I > posted it to see what the reaction would be to a nonstandard medieval > image (weird hat, extra long train, figured lining on a houp.) Clearly > some folks enjoyed having something that wasn't a real person to pretend > to be as vicious as others were to real folks, but some had fits of the > "we're too serious to have fun" variety. I particularly like criticsms > of photoshop technique, considering it only took me about 10 minutes. > > http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=312 > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > Vote early, vote often! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 14:49:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24JntSd022727 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:49:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JkKcP005986; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:46:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JkFEa043366; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:46:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JkCEa043343 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:46:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bede.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.222]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9967326294E for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:46:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004901c40221$678089f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:46:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] pictures from an event in Sweden X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i24JntSd022727 Status: RO Dear Ingrid, Lovely pictures, enjoyed the sights very much. How wonderfull it must have ben to participate. Thanks for the link Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 14:56:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24JuMSd022747 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:56:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JqNcP006457; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:52:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JqMEa047302; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:52:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24JqJEb047265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:52:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i24JpN7j003852 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:51:23 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:51:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <404788F7.1050604@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:52:23 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My personal favorite critique ROFL References: <200403041756.i24HuNKk058840@net.indra.com><40477637.7090309@verizon.net> <40477F72.5080102@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bice d'Este wrote: > Yup. You just earned more of my respect Cynthia. Delightfully naughty. Makes > me want to put my cat in a ruff and attifet and post her picture. They get really grumpy, y'know... http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/cat_hat_s2.jpg -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 15:04:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24K4WSd022795 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:04:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24K14cP007180; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:01:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24K0uEa053048; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:00:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from incoming.SIGENETICS.com ([209.172.110.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24K0tEa052975 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:00:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sbuchler@silicongenetics.com) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:01:31 -0800 Message-ID: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90CB665@incoming.sigenetics.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 148 thread-index: AcQB+0TtzPEvgMgxQZaQ+Bv0UyKP/gAJ9Zzw From: "Sunny Buchler" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i24K0tEa052975 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tangent to the AIPON discussion X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=94 Does anyone know more about this dress? Does the lady have a website? It's absolutely beautiful and I'd love to learn more about the construction, and research, and see more details...Somehow I find the 2 line descriptions on the AIPON site insufficient... :-) Thanks! -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 15:07:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24K7FSd022808 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:07:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24K34cP007400; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:03:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24K32Ea054598; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:03:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:VEQjcJqPK6nC+CmpwSg0GNppWxm2m8Ju@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24K2vEa054546 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:02:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i24K2tql020086; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:02:55 -0500 Message-Id: <200403042002.i24K2tql020086@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:02:42 -0000 To: Historical Costume From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Stays, research, etc. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Stevie, I may be able to get to my books over the weekend, but meanwhile Mara Riley was kind enough to look up some examples in her library. Mara is the author of _Whatever Shall I Wear_, and has been working on stays research for the last few years. >I'm getting more confused. Waugh only gives one example of a real set >of 18th century stays before 1780 and those are front lacing, dated >1730-40 of unspecified origin; see page 39. Why therefore do you >suggest that Corset and Crinolines supports the view that the most >common English 18th century stays were back lacing? Ok, I see where you’re getting confused. I mentioned Corsets & Crinolines as one of the many books that describes/drafts 18thC stays, aside from those you cited from the Kyoto collection. I was not looking at C&C for the conclusions, I was looking for more examples of stays that are out there. While there may be mistakes, I do not think she changed the location of the lacings of stays in her drafts. >But in any event, why do you imagine that a French publication, even >if she had managed to get it right, is an authoritative source on >English clothing construction? You’re the one who cited Garsault. Isn’t that French? Also the Kyoto collection and _Revolution in Fashion_ are Japanese. Mia mentioned that this collection may also have a bias. >I am interested in reproducing the >stays worn by English aristocratic women between approximately 1750 >and 1770. >You are confusing Diderot with Garsault, see my notes above. Ok, you’re right there, sorry about that. So Diderot only copied Garsault’s work and did not actually research the lacing configurations himself? Also a French (Garsault’s) idea of what was English, is actually what was commonly worn in England? >> >Actually, what I said was 'I think [it] was reasonably common practise >> >judging from my research so far'. >> >> Right, and I wondered about that because I and other >> > researchers think that front-lacing-only was uncommon. > >But you still haven't cited any evidence which you base your opinions on. Ok, here goes! _Corsets and Crinolines_ p. 39 - 1730-1740: laces front (over stomacher) and back. Yellow brocade... p. 42, 1780, half-boned stays in red silk damask: lace in back only. ------------------------- _What Clothes Reveal_: Two English, one American, all back-lacing. p. 40, woman's stays from Britain , 1770-1785: Back-lacing only, silk outside covering, no straps. p. 122 -- leather stays (children's, according to the caption), Britain, 1760- 1780 -- lace back, front and sides. p. 150 -- front-lacing stays, strapless, possibly American, 1760-1775. (comments below are Mara Riley’s) Yes, front lacing only -- these are the exception to the rule. The covering fabric is wool. They're lined with blue/white checked linen; definitely working class. Linda Baumgarten, curator of cotum at the De Witt Wallace Gallery, Williamsburg says about these stays: "Stays with front lacings may have served as maternity clothing and would have been equally useful during breast-feeding. A pair of front-lacing stays has a rather large waist in proportion to the bust, suggesting maternity wear; they measure thirty-two-nand-a-half inches at the chest and twenty-nine inches at the waist (fig. 208). The stays are quite heavy, constructed from brown worsted wool, boned with baleen, and lined with coarse linen." p. 211, three pairs of stays 1st -- Strapless, from Britain, 1740-1760, linen boned with baleen and wood, waist tabs removed at a later date (possibly for use as boys' stays) Back lacing only, plain fabric. 2nd -- Beige stays with straps, Britain, 1780, cotton lined with linen, boned with baleen. This has that partial lacing in front, stopping about halfway down. 3rd -- white stays with straps, New York, probably worn by Ann Van Renselaer, 1780-1790, cotton boned with wood or cane. Again, partial lacing in the center front. ----------------------- _Revolution in Fashion_: p. 47, 49: Corset, English, c. 1775, cotton and whalebone, back lacing, center front sewn together (laces part-way down). p. 100: Left: Corset, c. 1760, with laced-on sleeves. Laces front and back. Center: Child's corset, back-lacing, mid-18th c. Right: corset, early 18th c., back and side lacing, pocket for busk at center front. There's a picture (English) of a woman being laced into stays on p.152 of RIF. They lace in front, and you can't see the back. So, we have front & back lacing, and back lacing only, and only one set of front-lacing-only stays, which are utilitarian and possibly for maternity/ nursing wear, not high fashion. Mara could not tell which stays in _Revolution in Fashion_ you thought were front-lacing only. Is it a different book that you are citing? >> There are a few examples, certainly >> enough that making stays that way is correct. Most people I know >> are looking for what was the most common or average when making >> repro clothing. > >Not, I hope, when reproducing a high fashion garment and its >underpinnings. I try for accuracy. Common and average is the last >thing which I want, and an English aristocratic woman of the period >would have been incredulous at the idea. I meant “common or average” as the most likely thing being worn, as opposed to a rare example. I did not mean common as in lower class. As you said, >> >Actually, what I said was 'I think [it] was reasonably common practise >> >judging from my research so far'. So I thought you meant what was normally worn by most people, not that you were looking for examples for lower class. >I am not aware of any fashion magazines in England sent to the English >colonies in America before 1770 or so. Ok, so since your cut-off date is 1770, anything after that is irrelevant to your project? > As for the belief that American fashion could mirror the heights >of the art achieved in Western Europe during that period, I am >not aware of any garment created in the colonies which could >make that claim. There was imported clothing and that which the English governors and their wives brought with them. Probably not as high a quality as the king or queen would wear, no. And again, I was looking at your statement of “reasonably common practise”, which to me is different from the height of fashion. >all individuals in the colonies who aspired to something beyond >'Barbie dressed as an English gentlewoman' could do was to send >their measurements and thus import expensive knock-offs which >bore little resemblance to the real thing, or visit Europe in >the hope of getting gowns made which were the real thing, but which >were out of date by the time the ship had reached America on their >return voyage. Most of the original stays I’ve examined have been in American museums. Not everything in American museums was used in America, they buy at international auctions, have items that were purchased by collectors who bought in other countries, etc. Many times what survives, and ends up in major collections, is the haute coture. So this is included in what I’m talking about when I mention reenactors who are studying stays. Though reenacting a particular era, we look at whatever we can to get a sense of what existed both before and after our period of interest. That items worn in America in the 18th century were out of date - well, sure, three months to the major ports and six months to reach the frontier. But while three months behind London, someone in Philadelphia would be on the cutting edge of fashion in that city. Three months is not much time compared to the twenty year time span of your interest. >Your assumption is ill founded; I am constructing my front lacing >stays with horizontal bones, and it creates a rounded shape. Again, if >you look at page 130, Fashion, you will see that the front lacing >stays do have horizontal bones. So you’re using two horizontal bones, split in the middle? There must be a balance, then, of the flexibility of the bones. On some originals, the horizontal boning is thick enough that it would form a point in the front if it were divided, rather than making a curved front as it does with a solid piece. But with a thinner piece of baleen it may work. I'll also be interested to hear about your results! >> My favorite draft is from Corsets & Crinolies, a >> mid-century set of stays that lace both front & back, >> with a stomacher as part of the stays. > >I can't find these, what page are they on, please? Page 39. Anyway, I don’t know if this makes any difference in your project. Mara and I are both interested in the idea of a survey of as many sets of stays as we can track down. Great idea! It will help us determine what is consistent and it will be fun ot see where there are variations in the apparent norm. Thanks! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 15:15:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24KExSd022831 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:15:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KATcP008175; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:10:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KAREa060029; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:10:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KALEa059881 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:10:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.15.2433b4e9 (4312) for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:04:53 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <15.2433b4e9.2d78e5e5@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:04:53 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks (was: LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/4/2004 11:15:02 AM Central Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: Anyway, has anyone here ever really had a 'garb snark' in their face? I have never had anyone make a nasty or hateful comment to my face, but I *have* had people "constructively" tell me what I could "improve" on my garb LOL. I just say thank you and go on ... if their intentions were truly good then there's no harm done; and if they were trying to be snarky, then not giving them the satisfaction of a debate is the best thing to do. Incidentally, I have been a witness to a really bad garb-snarking scene. At a Twelfth Night banquet for the SCA, a lady had come in her new Elizabethan, which was very striking but not very period-correct. I happened to be walking into the restrooms at the same time as she did, and two other women who were already inside stalls in the restroom were quite loudly poking fun at this woman's dress, not realizing that she had just walked into the bathroom ahead of me. It was NOT a pleasant moment for anyone involved. -Tiff _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 15:15:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24KFeSd022840 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:15:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KBQcP008309; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:11:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KBOEa060758; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:11:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m3.nyc.untd.com (m3.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i24KBJEa060649 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:11:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from btana@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"MW/ewWa+Q2FG65sHxVDc3S7RPYk6wOHKuW/sV2xNJuU=">; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:10:53 PST Received: (from btana@juno.com) by m3.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JPWE3AGM; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:10:53 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:48:25 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks (was: LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY Message-ID: <20040304.131556.1344.3.btana@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-7,23-27,29-31 From: btana@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:21:28 -0600 Dawn writes: > > Anyway, has anyone here ever really had a 'garb snark' in their > face? > Just had to relate this little tidbit. Last year at Ren here in Colorado, my hubby and the male faction of the horde were approached by a guy, also dressed in garb (I wasn't there so I don't know how period he was), but the guy definitely seemed to think that the horde had no business there because our stuff wasn't "fighting period". Everyone told him that we were based in fantasy, but the guy just wouldn't let it go. Now, I don't know if the guy was at the final joust or not, but for not being period, anyone there for the final joust on opening or closing weekend will most likely realize who the horde is. Even the jousting KNIGHTS bring us into the action with threats of bathing us in the "blood" of our favorite knight! Of all the people in the audience, the horde is singled out. And the King has been really kewl about us as well. (Hubby ALMOST dared me to prance up and just plop in the King's lap once. Perhaps this summer, I might just do that. Of course, I'll have the camera ready as well. But then, the good King seems to have an eye for the barbarian women. ) Anyhow, even us fantasy folk get the garb snark once in a great while. Astrid Never argue with a dragon, for thou art crunchy and go well with Brie. http://www.geocities.com/tul_juriss - for links to ALL my current sites http://www.geocities.com/astridofthehorde - costumes I've made http://www.geocities.com/house_qul_mupwi - The noble Klingon House http://www.geocities.com/klingon_pirates_guild - The Klingon Pirate's Guild ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 15:16:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24KG1Sd022845 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:16:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KBfcP008332; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:11:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KBdEa060925; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:11:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m3.nyc.untd.com (m3.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i24KBJEa060653 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:11:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from btana@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"MW/ewWa+Q2FG65sHxVDc3S7RPYk6wOHKPsArWEGs+Wc=">; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:10:53 PST Received: (from btana@juno.com) by m3.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JPWE3AGT; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:10:53 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:02:27 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks (was: LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY Message-ID: <20040304.131556.1344.5.btana@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-6, 7, 9-11, 13, 15, 17-18, 20, 22, 24-26, 28, 30, 32, 34-37, 47, 54-55, 57-59, 61-32767 From: btana@juno.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:37:09 -0500 "Bice d'Este" writes: > To be blunt. Hell yes. Years ago I had gone to one of my first SCA-type > events and wore what was admittedly a really bad gown I was last minute > attending and hadn't even planned on going. Some worthy walked up and began > to pick the dress apart. I stood silently while she circled and said not a > thing until she was done and standing in front of me. She was still bitching > about machine stitches and lack of effort and how this was wrong and I > wasn't making an attempt at accuracy in my clothing etc. While she continued > to talk I simply reached up and took her glasses off her face polished them > ostentatiously and placed them back on her startled face, bowed and walked > away. > > She still avoids me at events (the few I attend) and when someone asked me > why I had done it I explained that the incongruity of her screaming about no > effort at looking period while she wore black cat's eye glasses was simply > too much for me. (I wear contacts to events) What's sad is it's not the only > time I've been *snarked*. And don't even start on my Cow-hardie. I LOVE the way you set her back on her heels. Job well done, and without saying a word! I just LOVE IT!!! The sad fact is that, while there are several in all the various SCA group locations who are going for as accurate and authentic as they can possibly get, there are also those that will attend event after event and never make improvements, using whatever they can pull off the rack... sweatpants being one of them (though this is being said from knowledge of over 10 years ago, don't know if it's changed much since then though.) Using things like you did with the glasses will have a more lasting affect, especially if they're going to pick you apart. The one thing that I have finally figured out.... if I'm doing something that needs to be researched and I've done plenty of it to validate what I'm making... or if I'm doing something that is for my enjoyment only and only resembles period in the styling of it... I am the one who decides how good it looks and if it's "good enough" to pass. I only listen to those who I know and trust, and go on what they say, nothing more. Never argue with a dragon, for thou art crunchy and go well with Brie. http://www.geocities.com/tul_juriss - for links to ALL my current sites http://www.geocities.com/astridofthehorde - costumes I've made http://www.geocities.com/house_qul_mupwi - The noble Klingon House http://www.geocities.com/klingon_pirates_guild - The Klingon Pirate's Guild _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 15:16:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24KGBSd022851 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:16:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KBwcP008373; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:11:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KBuEa061149; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:11:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m3.nyc.untd.com (m3.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i24KBJEa060650 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:11:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from btana@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"MW/ewWa+Q2FG65sHxVDc3S7RPYk6wOHKa1M0XWShz7M=">; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:10:53 PST Received: (from btana@juno.com) by m3.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JPWE3AGQ; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:10:53 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:50:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY Message-ID: <20040304.131556.1344.4.btana@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-6,7-9,11,13,15-16,18,20-23,35,51,53-56,58-60,62-32767 From: btana@juno.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:43:48 EST Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com writes: > I think my biggest problem with killing myself for accuracy is this: > no matter HOW HARD you try, how much time you put in, how much research you do, how > much money you spend, you will STILL arrive at your first event in your ultra > accurate garb, and some self-appointed Garb Grand Pooh-Bah will walk up to you, > look you over head to toe, and comment upon the fact that your trim is > inaccurate and your bodice doesn't have the right silhouette. So I try to stay > within the bounds of reason, and just have fun. If people have a problem with it > they can go discuss it with the guy in the plaid flannel kilt. I more than agree. Let's see, I've heard them called authenti-police, garb nazis, thread-counters, and the latest to come across one of the lists... For those of us who are true clothes horses and fiber geeks,we can spot fake linen at 20 paces!... I agree, we do it to have fun. Unless someone is more well-versed (or at least as well versed) as I in that situation, they'd be able to tell, but if you don't have the research and knowledge, you see beautiful garb, and assume that it's correct for the period. Nit-pickin'... leave it at home and have fun. People do what they can afford and have time for. So that viking trim isn't hand woven tablet weaving... it looks similar, let it pass and let it go, ya know? (sorry, popped in my head and came out the fingers. But that's my take on things) The Horde makes sure that we let people know that we're based in FANTASY. Unfortunately, there is a Viking at a Ren fair that, as soon as I have the full shot, as well as his contact information, will HOPEFULLY be treated with lessons in accuracy. What he's wearing is like what the Horde wears... fantasy, with distant relation to actual historical finds, but he's claiming it is ALL historical. Vikings never HAD horned helmets! That's the most blatant one visible. I've only done cursory research, have been asked if I would be interested in a semi-local Viking LH group, and can only LAUGH at this so called Viking. And he had the gall to complain about carrying his axe all day! (It was plywood covered with tinfoil, and informed the horde that if he were to carry a real axe of that size, he couldn't do it all day!) Hubby informed me of this, and I laughed, responding with... "Your axe would KILL him to carry all day! He's such a wimp!" Hubby had to agree. His double headed axe weighs in at 10lbs (axe alone), and in the heat of June and July, it feels like a whole lot more. If'n y'all wanna see that so-called Viking, I'll be glad to post a pic somewhere when I get it. Let me know. Astrid Never argue with a dragon, for thou art crunchy and go well with Brie. http://www.geocities.com/tul_juriss - for links to ALL my current sites http://www.geocities.com/astridofthehorde - costumes I've made http://www.geocities.com/house_qul_mupwi - The noble Klingon House http://www.geocities.com/klingon_pirates_guild - The Klingon Pirate's Guild _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 15:18:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24KIWSd022865 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:18:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KDucP008568; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:13:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KDsEa062503; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:13:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav58.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.193]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KBmEa060971 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:11:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:54:26 -0800 Received: from 24.58.109.191 by bay1-dav58.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:54:26 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.109.191] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200403041756.i24HuNKk058840@net.indra.com><40477637.7090309@verizon.net> <40477F72.5080102@thibault.org> <404788F7.1050604@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My personal favorite critique ROFL Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:54:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Mar 2004 19:54:26.0371 (UTC) FILETIME=[7F74A130:01C40222] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO LMAO. Oh gods now I MUST inflict poor Moo and Farli with hats. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] My personal favorite critique ROFL > Bice d'Este wrote: > > > Yup. You just earned more of my respect Cynthia. Delightfully naughty. Makes > > me want to put my cat in a ruff and attifet and post her picture. > > They get really grumpy, y'know... > http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/cat_hat_s2.jpg > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 15:22:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24KMWSd022905 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:22:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KGvcP008968; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:16:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KGtEa064718; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:16:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KGnEa064614 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:16:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (v93.12) with ESMTP id RELAYIN5-640478d6e2c1; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:11:26 -0500 Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.65.23a43c50 (4312) for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:06:13 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <65.23a43c50.2d78e632@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:06:10 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] the guy in the plaid flannel kilt To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/4/2004 11:47:38 AM Central Standard Time, Katie@katiesorchids.com writes: Hey! That's my hubby you're snarking! It's made from a nice warm flannel sheet and I think he looks *oh so handsome* in it! Good lord ... doesn't it ITCH???? LOL -Tiff _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 15:38:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24KcLSd022976 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:38:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KXBcP010559; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:33:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KX7Ea075893; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:33:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14005.mail.yahoo.com (web14005.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i24KX4Ea075857 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:33:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040304203259.24617.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:32:59 GMT Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:32:59 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001e01c4021e$5bdd22f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] garb snarks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was with a friend who does lovely late 14th century clothing. She has one hat that she will never wear agian even though its a good hat. We call it the coffee filter hat. Yoo're supposed to wear a white veil over it. She was wearing it at an event when someon came up and asked her if she was trying to be the singing nun. In a sage green linen dress no less! ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 15:44:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24KieSd023010 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:44:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KdhcP011075; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:39:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KdfEa080384; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:39:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KdaEb080351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:39:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i24Kce7j004105 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:38:40 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:38:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4047940B.8030900@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:39:39 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] garb snarks References: <20040304203259.24617.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040304203259.24617.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: > I was with a friend who does lovely late 14th century > clothing. She has one hat that she will never wear > agian even though its a good hat. We call it the > coffee filter hat. Yoo're supposed to wear a white > veil over it. She was wearing it at an event when > someon came up and asked her if she was trying to be > the singing nun. In a sage green linen dress no less! Sometimes they have veils, but by no means always. I like those hats! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 15:45:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24KjlSd023019 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:45:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24Kf3cP011176; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:41:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KewEa081453; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:40:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14007.mail.yahoo.com (web14007.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i24KesEa081398 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:40:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040304203412.78032.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:34:12 GMT Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:34:12 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] garb snarks To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001e01c4021e$5bdd22f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, you are the incarnate god of embroidery. Your stuff is always good. --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi. > Last year when i came to my first event ever in > "Gustafs Skål" in Sweden, i was velkomed very > warmhearted. > The worst critic told me i was the best he had ever > seen. > That warmed my heart! > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 15:50:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24KoTSd023049 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:50:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KjbcP011611; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:45:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KjXEa084644; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:45:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KjVEa084611 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:45:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAAE01D24E for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:45:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p421.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.167]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8D38CD4AF for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:45:30 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] the guy in the plaid flannel kilt Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:45:33 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <65.23a43c50.2d78e632@aol.com> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was think more in the line of it tickling his fancy but wasn't going to say anything until your comment. :) D _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 15:55:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24KtqSd023068 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:55:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KotcP012251; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:50:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KoqEa088258; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:50:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav34.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24KolEa088135 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:50:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:50:41 -0800 Received: from 24.58.109.191 by bay1-dav34.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:50:41 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.109.191] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040304203259.24617.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] garb snarks Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:50:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Mar 2004 20:50:41.0775 (UTC) FILETIME=[5B5A67F0:01C4022A] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That bites. Big time. Support her and encourage her to wear the hat again. I love those hats!! ============================= http://my.lulu.com/kristalori Elizabethan Ladies Calendar Rolled Florentine Cap Pattern http://kristalori.com ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catalina Saravia Quicedo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 3:32 PM Subject: [h-cost] garb snarks > I was with a friend who does lovely late 14th century > clothing. She has one hat that she will never wear > agian even though its a good hat. We call it the > coffee filter hat. Yoo're supposed to wear a white > veil over it. She was wearing it at an event when > someon came up and asked her if she was trying to be > the singing nun. In a sage green linen dress no less! > > ===== > Señora Catalina > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 16:22:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24LM5Sd023220 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:22:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LGMcP014742; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:16:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LGAEa006746; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:16:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LFrEa006561 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:15:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CA7C1D063 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:15:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p421.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.167]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A6F17D432 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:15:50 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:15:53 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <20040304.131556.1344.4.btana@juno.com> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are examples of horns on the helmets but they are metal not actual horn. On a few Nordic (dislike using the term Viking as most of my research shows Vikings to be more of a "profession" like pirating then the general populace) lists I have heard the "I can tell fake linen [so many #]yards away. And "I can tell hand stitched from machine stitched 5 yards away". Some years back at a contest a friend entered a tunic that was hand stitched. Her grandmother taught her and she could sew straight even stitches. One of the judge docked points because "it is obviously machine stitched and not hand sewn." Really, didn't know you could buy wool thread on a machine spool. (bit O' sarcasm) De -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of btana@juno.com Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:51 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:43:48 EST Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com writes: > I think my biggest problem with killing myself for accuracy is this: > no matter HOW HARD you try, how much time you put in, how much research you do, how > much money you spend, you will STILL arrive at your first event in your ultra > accurate garb, and some self-appointed Garb Grand Pooh-Bah will walk up to you, > look you over head to toe, and comment upon the fact that your trim is > inaccurate and your bodice doesn't have the right silhouette. So I try to stay > within the bounds of reason, and just have fun. If people have a problem with it > they can go discuss it with the guy in the plaid flannel kilt. I more than agree. Let's see, I've heard them called authenti-police, garb nazis, thread-counters, and the latest to come across one of the lists... For those of us who are true clothes horses and fiber geeks,we can spot fake linen at 20 paces!... I agree, we do it to have fun. Unless someone is more well-versed (or at least as well versed) as I in that situation, they'd be able to tell, but if you don't have the research and knowledge, you see beautiful garb, and assume that it's correct for the period. Nit-pickin'... leave it at home and have fun. People do what they can afford and have time for. So that viking trim isn't hand woven tablet weaving... it looks similar, let it pass and let it go, ya know? (sorry, popped in my head and came out the fingers. But that's my take on things) The Horde makes sure that we let people know that we're based in FANTASY. Unfortunately, there is a Viking at a Ren fair that, as soon as I have the full shot, as well as his contact information, will HOPEFULLY be treated with lessons in accuracy. What he's wearing is like what the Horde wears... fantasy, with distant relation to actual historical finds, but he's claiming it is ALL historical. Vikings never HAD horned helmets! That's the most blatant one visible. I've only done cursory research, have been asked if I would be interested in a semi-local Viking LH group, and can only LAUGH at this so called Viking. And he had the gall to complain about carrying his axe all day! (It was plywood covered with tinfoil, and informed the horde that if he were to carry a real axe of that size, he couldn't do it all day!) Hubby informed me of this, and I laughed, responding with... "Your axe would KILL him to carry all day! He's such a wimp!" Hubby had to agree. His double headed axe weighs in at 10lbs (axe alone), and in the heat of June and July, it feels like a whole lot more. If'n y'all wanna see that so-called Viking, I'll be glad to post a pic somewhere when I get it. Let me know. Astrid Never argue with a dragon, for thou art crunchy and go well with Brie. http://www.geocities.com/tul_juriss - for links to ALL my current sites http://www.geocities.com/astridofthehorde - costumes I've made http://www.geocities.com/house_qul_mupwi - The noble Klingon House http://www.geocities.com/klingon_pirates_guild - The Klingon Pirate's Guild _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 16:26:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24LQCSd023235 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:26:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LKtcP015210; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:20:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LKpEa010296; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:20:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LKnEa010221 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:20:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53D5242615 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:34:31 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40479F95.8020806@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:28:53 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <20040304203259.24617.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Another bronze age find X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/3532395.stm They mention jewelry, but nothing about surviving fibers. Still, I can't wait to see the pictures from this one. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 16:31:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24LV0Sd023251 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:31:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LPxcP015819; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:25:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LPwEa013753; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:25:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LP6Ea013155 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:25:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAE9A1D4FA for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:25:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p421.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.167]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7BF29D4AF for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:25:05 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garb Snarks Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:25:07 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <40477696.2060304@thibault.org> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I suddenly got a picture of cow print and little cow buttons going up the arms and front. Then I saw a sideless surcote made from the the hawiian flame print material interchange with stripes of black, like wrotiron. for "Gates of hell" Must file this for future costumes. :) De -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Cynthia Virtue Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:34 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks Bice d'Este wrote: > And don't even start on my Cow-hardie. You're not the lady with the delightfully silly cowhardie (cotehardie out of cow print fabric) in western PA, are you? I saw one there years ago when visiting an event with a friends' family. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 16:34:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24LY5Sd023258 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:34:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LPBcP015713; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:25:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LP9Ea013167; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:25:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LP5Ea013143 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:25:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 438171D4FA for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:25:05 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p421.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.167]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 08E70D432 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:25:04 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garb Snarks (was: LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:25:06 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The question is did she get a clue or did she take your actions as a threat to her person and is still walking around quite ignorant? De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 16:40:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24Le3Sd023281 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:40:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LcscP017188; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:38:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LcpEa022636; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:38:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LclEa022549 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:38:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.9e.4dfa09b (3874) for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:38:38 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <9e.4dfa09b.2d78fbde@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:38:38 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/4/2004 3:26:31 PM Central Standard Time, otsisto@socket.net writes: Must file this for future costumes. :) De My favorite garb piece ever is my leopard print bodice ::grin::. -Tiff _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 16:40:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24Le5Sd023284 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:40:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LUMcP016226; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:30:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LUIEa016717; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:30:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LUGEa016666 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:30:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bede.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.222]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5FB2D262AD4 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:24:28 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000c01c4022f$1abdeeb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:24:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] stays research X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i24Le5Sd023284 Status: RO Carol! This is very interresting points you made with Mara. Still i am in question. Why did Garsault write that english stays are front laced and vise versa? Could this be that Garsault actually knew nothing at all about english style stays? The french and the englishmen were enemies - at war all the time, and could this just be a mob to the english, that they were so stupid that they laced their corsets in the front? Many other books writes the same, but i guess this is because they rely on Garsault. Any thoaghts about this? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 16:51:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24LpLSd023330 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:51:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24Lm7cP018201; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:48:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24Lm2Ea029008; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:48:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav29.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LlwEa028898 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:48:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:30:33 -0800 Received: from 24.58.109.191 by bay1-dav29.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 21:30:33 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.109.191] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:30:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Mar 2004 21:30:33.0289 (UTC) FILETIME=[ECCE7B90:01C4022F] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you play someplace where an open mind is welcome then there are so many things you can do to have fun with fabric and middle age clothing. We can get delightfully evil here or contact me off list for some of my evil plotting. ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 4:25 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garb Snarks > I suddenly got a picture of cow print and little cow buttons going up the > arms and front. Then I saw a sideless surcote made from the the hawiian > flame print material interchange with stripes of black, like wrotiron. for > "Gates of hell" > > Must file this for future costumes. :) > > De > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Cynthia Virtue > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:34 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks > > > Bice d'Este wrote: > > > And don't even start on my Cow-hardie. > > You're not the lady with the delightfully silly cowhardie (cotehardie > out of cow print fabric) in western PA, are you? I saw one there years > ago when visiting an event with a friends' family. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > Vote early, vote often! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 16:54:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24LsOSd023336 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:54:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24LrBcP018745; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:53:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24Lr8Ea032632; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:53:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24Lr7Ea032613 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:53:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.232]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AyuIt-00014K-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 06:58:27 -0800 Received: from 209-165-40-250.jps.net ([209.165.40.250] helo=pavilion) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AyuIr-0001RL-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 06:58:25 -0800 Message-ID: <000801c401fa$b17b0de0$fa28a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4046DC08.3070909@pcez.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update about pomander Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:09:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Congrats! PLEASE DO let us know when photos are available! I'd love to see them. Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roscelin" To: "H-Costume" ; "Cathedral" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:34 PM Subject: [h-cost] Update about pomander > Greetings One and All, > > For everyone who is interestested in hearing about my progress with > the 14th-15th C. pomander. Well, last term in my jewelry class - the > project hit a snag. Because my instructor insisted that I used two > types of metals. Unfortunately, I found out that sterling silver and > German silver do not work well together on larger pieces. But where I > failed, I did get a great pair of earrings and necklace pendant (when I > get the web site up and going I will place the pictures of them on the > site). > I was able to talk my instructor in taking me on as an independent > study. This means during this coming fall term, I will be able to > completely concentrate on the pomander and do it the way I want to do > it. Hurray! I also found recent reference to a copper pomander of the > 14th C. that was enameled, hoping to research it more and maybe > recreate it in the future > Even with some of these setbacks and such, I did win an art > scholarship for this term and also was placed on the Dean of Education's > honor roll list. -blush- > Must go back to the books.... > > Roscelin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 17:00:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24M0dSd023370 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:00:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24Lx5cP019280; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:59:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24Lx2Ea036625; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:59:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav9.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.113]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24Lx0Ea036548 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:59:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:41:36 -0800 Received: from 24.58.109.191 by bay1-dav9.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 21:41:36 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.109.191] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks (was: LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:41:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Mar 2004 21:41:36.0850 (UTC) FILETIME=[7851DB20:01C40231] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh no. Later I made it real clear why I had done it. She knew at the time and in fact as I walked away she called me an arrogant bitch. (like I haven't heard that one before) and complained before I even spoke to others on my reasons for doing it that I was an arrogant know it all and thought I knew more than her about costuming and LARP etc etc I think frankly she just wanted to find someone to be nasty to and picked the wrong person. She avoids me still to this day and I'm told flinches when my name is brought up. Good. Next time she gets nasty maybe she'll think twice and go off someplace else. I don't know her lit her fuse that day but she didn't get the reaction she wanted I'm sure. Anyone who knows me also speaks of the highly "disdainful" look I tend to get on my face in the presence of snarkiness and I understand that just the look on my face alone has stopped many a snarking episode in my hearing because I flat out won't allow it done to me or anyone in my presence. It's a disgusting habit and I have no patience for it. I've been known to grip a snark firmly by the arm smile politely and offer to take her for a small walk while we discuss appropriate behavior at an event. And yeah I've done it to those who know better and have little medals. Up here for a while I ran a local LARP (still do even though it's mildly defunct at the moment) and have to autocrat most everything on my own. I want people to have fun and the last thing the need is some garb Nazi on a mission in their face at worst making them cry (had it happen) ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 4:25 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garb Snarks (was: LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY > > > ostentatiously and placed them back on her startled face, bowed and walked > away. > > She still avoids me at events.> > > The question is did she get a clue or did she take your actions as a threat > to her person and is still walking around quite ignorant? > > De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 17:10:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24MAtSd023415 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:10:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24M5VcP019956; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:05:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24M5TEa041088; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:05:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24M5OEb041005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:05:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i24MJao8009562 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:19:37 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040304140056.02571ea8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:05:18 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks In-Reply-To: <9e.4dfa09b.2d78fbde@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmmm .... I think I *will* take that plaid flannel sheeting and make a couple of Kass's leinte for hubby and me. Carry wooden sticks with a line and hook on each. And hang signs on our backs that say "Trolling for Garb Snarks" ... Katie At 04:38 PM 3/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 3/4/2004 3:26:31 PM Central Standard Time, >otsisto@socket.net writes: >Must file this for future costumes. :) > >De > >My favorite garb piece ever is my leopard print bodice ::grin::. > >-Tiff >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 17:58:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24Mw6Sd023703 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:58:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24MrYcP024675; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:53:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24MrSEa073753; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:53:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:7f5HM1zTQE1qOFKT2N1WaJ+HnMJCQiZI@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24MrPEa073713 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:53:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i24MrOql030386 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:53:24 -0500 Message-Id: <200403042253.i24MrOql030386@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:53:11 -0000 To: Historical Costume From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Other countries' names X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Bjarne, Well, there is the Robe Anglaise, also named for English. On the other hand, the English named certain diseases after the French, and I don't think the French were the only ones to have them. In England today, they call chocolate chip cookies "Maryland" cookies, but here is the US I've never heard them attributed to any one state or place. I don't know why things are named after certain places, does it really come from that place or is it just a way to call something that's different? -Carol Bjarne og Leif Drews said: > Carol! > This is very interresting points you made with Mara. > Still i am in question. Why did Garsault write that english stays are front laced and vise versa? > Could this be that Garsault actually knew nothing at all about english style stays? > The french and the englishmen were enemies - at war all the time, and could this just be a mob to the english, that they were so stupid that they laced their corsets in the front? > Many other books writes the same, but i guess this is because they rely on Garsault. > Any thoaghts about this? > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 18:17:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24NHwSd023763 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:17:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24NHCcP026991; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:17:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24NH8Ea089889; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:17:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20723.mail.yahoo.com (web20723.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i24NGxEa089801 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:17:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040304231017.35955.qmail@web20723.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.237.165.132] by web20723.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:10:17 PST Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:10:17 -0800 (PST) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] Western Mass. costume museums? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hello - a Smith alum. I've worked in the > Smith costume shop, but unfortunately I do not > believe that they have much > in the way of actual period garments there, nor if > memory serves anywhere to display them if they did. Smith actually has a rather nice costume collection from about mid-19th century throught the 20th. I especially remember a Bright Yellow silk hoop-era gown that looked like neon--bright as any nylon, and this after 120 years (at the time). But, nowhere to display it. I saw it as a January course. Ann in CT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 19:00:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2500iSd023986 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:00:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24NxjcP001218; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:59:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24NxSEa017031; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:59:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i24NxQEa016999 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:59:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10201 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:29:54 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:29:54 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Book on linen industry X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A librarian friend sends me this citation. I haven't seen the book, but he says it includes medieval material (and I know some people on this list will be interested in the later stuff): The European linen industry in historical perspective, ed. Brenda Collins & Philip Ollerenshaw (Oxford UPr, 2003)> --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 20:54:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i251siSd024512 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:54:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i251rscP009263; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:53:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i251rjEa075693; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:53:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i251rhEa075671 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:53:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i251jpe13154 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:45:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from user-2inilbd.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.85.109] helo=[165.121.81.43]) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Az4Od-0007uZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:45:04 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200403041756.i24HuNKl058840@net.indra.com> References: <200403041756.i24HuNKl058840@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:44:56 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 149 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:56 AM -0700 3/4/04, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >probably why I have the passive website for people who are looking to find. > >Anyway, has anyone here ever really had a 'garb snark' in their face? > > >Dawn Oh yeah! I was wearing an undergown dyed with stinky pot indigo, only to be informed the color was "tooooooo brite" by someone that fancied themselves an expert! Me n a few others just laughed ourselves silly after said person left Funny thing was, I was uncertain enough about the *cut*, but the color was spot on so to speak... And on the other hand I've had a tunic I sewed for someone complemented on the wonderful linen it was made from (5 foot rule!)...it was 100% poly, 25 cents a yard...so much for the "I can spot real linen at 20 feet" rule! Life is just full o surprises! Next biiiig project will probably be a hand spun/woven cloak or coat of LOTR Fellowship style cloth---so tell me it's not *authentic* Elf re-enacting can be very relaxing! Especially when taking a break from tryin to fit a corset by oneself ta Carol, feeling silly tonight -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 21:12:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i252CHSd024561 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:12:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i252BTcP010171; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:11:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i252BREa084002; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:11:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m3.nyc.untd.com (m3.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i252BNEa083934 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:11:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from btana@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"MW/ewWa+Q2FG65sHxVDc3T2vL+lIEeuTnLVcwU9S6uqAZJgQtVnvmA==">; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:10:24 PST Received: (from btana@juno.com) by m3.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JPW3MLPT; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:10:24 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:15:34 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY Message-ID: <20040304.191535.2884.3.btana@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3,5,7,9,11-13,15-22,32,46-49,51-53 From: btana@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:15:53 -0600 "otsisto" writes: > There are examples of horns on the helmets but they are metal not actual > horn. On a few Nordic (dislike using the term Viking as most of my research > shows Vikings to be more of a "profession" like pirating then the general > populace) lists I have heard the "I can tell fake linen [so many #]yards > away. And "I can tell hand stitched from machine stitched 5 yards away". > Some years back at a contest a friend entered a tunic that was hand > stitched. Her grandmother taught her and she could sew straight even > stitches. One of the judge docked points because "it is obviously machine > stitched and not hand sewn." > Really, didn't know you could buy wool thread on a machine spool. > (bit O' sarcasm) > > De According to "Viking" LHers, there have been no horned helms found, what's been found has been merely what APPEARS to be a horned helm. And if they HAD been metal, then the horns would have remained. Believe me, these LHers are WAY serious about what they do. I've seen their standards for kit. They'll accept machine stitched, but anything VISIBLE needs to be hand sewn. The list goes on. Heck, they aren't even considering safety glasses for folks like the blacksmith, whose RL job is the same and their livelihood. Anyhow, I have to agree, you can't tell a blasted thing, because some folks are just TOO good at what they do. And I'm very pleased with myself, spent about 3 hours today correcting the bust sizing of my new armor for this summer (my others gets a little too warm, but now wench burn is going to take on a whole new meaning) to stay a bit cooler. Now, three SG1 tactical vests by mid-April, and then another laced leather shirt for sharing with my oldest daughter for RF. Once those are done, I'll start to work on some of my winter garb... my long leather tunic and my leather pants.... once I find my pieces for my pants again. Anyhow, need to get hubby to put his stuff away so that I can use my cutting table tomorrow. Need to pack some things up and get some other things out, to work on for the cool nights of camping as well. (That coyote cloak needs to be bigger, so I need to get that done as well by Ren) Guess I better get to work. (Dang, for a lurker, I've said more today than the whole of the time I've been on this list! ) Astrid Never argue with a dragon, for thou art crunchy and go well with Brie. http://www.geocities.com/tul_juriss - for links to ALL my current sites http://www.geocities.com/astridofthehorde - costumes I've made http://www.geocities.com/house_qul_mupwi - The noble Klingon House http://www.geocities.com/klingon_pirates_guild - The Klingon Pirate's Guild ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 21:12:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i252CvSd024564 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:12:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i252C3cP010215; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i252C3Ea084275; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:12:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i252BtEa084225 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:12:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.131.158]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A529974DE for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:11:52 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:15:17 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] My guilty pleasure. Message-ID: <40477235.31780.299F9DA5@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4046A475.5050800@dandy.net> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I > would like to see someone try a test... submit pictures of some > well-known professionals' work and see how brutal it can get. I don't believe we need to test. All you have to do is watch how people talk about the costumes of any of the costume dramas out there. ;) The only difference is that if you place your work in a forum for "feedback" you can expect some people to respond negatively and should be prepared for that. A professional doesn't ask for feedback yet they get it unasked all the time. I think that for the amiperiodornot website, that anyone who submits should ignore the stupid/uniformed comments and take the reasoned ones to heart. (And glory in every positive comment.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 21:42:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i252gxSd024743 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:42:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i252f2cP011937; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i252f0Ea002653; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:41:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i252eDEf001895 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:40:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040304235715.XRPU3598.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost> for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:57:15 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.10 (webedge20-101-191-20030113) From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] Garb Snarks Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:57:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [127.0.0.1] using ID at Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:57:15 -0500 Message-Id: <20040304235715.XRPU3598.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- Speaking of silly garb.... http://members.tripod.com/nicolaa5/images/hockey.jpg (Picture's a little dark, the numbers on the tippets have changed, and I've actually rebuilt it in somewhat nicer fabric, but you get the idea...) This comes out once per year at most, usually at Twelfth Night. Susan ...who enjoys the odd break from the authentic 1 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 21:45:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i252jDSd024762 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:45:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i252eNcP011902; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:40:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i252eHEa001994; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:40:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i252eDEd001895 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:40:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040304234927.XPPZ3598.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost> for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:49:27 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.10 (webedge20-101-191-20030113) From: To: Historical Costume , "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] garb snarks Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:49:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [127.0.0.1] using ID at Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:49:27 -0500 Message-Id: <20040304234927.XPPZ3598.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > > I was with a friend who does lovely late 14th century > > clothing. She has one hat that she will never wear > > agian even though its a good hat. We call it the > > coffee filter hat. Yoo're supposed to wear a white > > veil over it. She was wearing it at an event when > > someon came up and asked her if she was trying to be > > the singing nun. In a sage green linen dress no less! Well, it wasn't at an event, but at a school demo once I was heading out to the parking lot in my deep green silk surcote and veil and wimple, and heard someone say, "Look, a nun!" and point to me. It *was* a Catholic school, and I know nuns in habit aren't as common these days, but I didn't think they were that unfamiliar that they would mistake one wearing deep green silk for one. Susan 1 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 22:23:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i253NUSd024973 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:23:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i253MmcP014069; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:22:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i253MeEa027462; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:22:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.k12.hi.us (honu.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.214]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i253MbEa027445 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:22:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from makani (makani.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.195]) by smtp.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id A16F4506DB for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:18:30 -1000 (HST) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:20:55 -1000 (HST) From: annora X-X-Sender: To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20040304234927.XPPZ3598.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: being mistaken for a num X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Well, it wasn't at an event, but at a school demo once I was heading > out to the parking lot in my deep green silk surcote and veil and > wimple, and heard someone say, "Look, a nun!" and point to me. It > *was* a Catholic school, and I know nuns in habit aren't as common > these days, but I didn't think they were that unfamiliar that they > would mistake one wearing deep green silk for one. This isn't really historical costume related but it reminded me of something funny that happened at work yesterday. I have hip-length black hair which I often leave down. Yesterday I was wearing a long, rather full white skirt. Someone who was walking behind me from the parking lot later came and told me that from the back at a distance she thought I was a nun! St. Elizabeth's Catholic school is nearby and some of the nuns do wear white habits with black veils :>. annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 22:33:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i253XtSd025007 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:33:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i253WxcP014532; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:32:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i253WuEa032250; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:32:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out005.verizon.net (out005pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.143]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i253WrEa032225 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:32:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp ([4.62.21.200]) by out005.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040305032452.GDCV2677.out005.verizon.net@brandyscomp> for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:24:52 -0600 Message-ID: <00af01c40261$6ee19fa0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> From: "Brandy Deming" To: "Historical Costume" References: <199.26b47271.2d78b6c4@aol.com> <40476598.8040100@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks (was: LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:24:54 -0800 Organization: Better Times for Small Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AC_01C4021E.5FA0BAA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out005.verizon.net from [4.62.21.200] at Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:24:52 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AC_01C4021E.5FA0BAA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, it was most embarrassing. Kept me away for 6 years (1st event). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks (was: LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY > > > > you will STILL arrive at your first event in your ultra > > accurate garb, and some self-appointed Garb Grand Pooh-Bah will walk up to you, > > look you over head to toe, and comment upon the fact that your trim is > > inaccurate and your bodice doesn't have the right silhouette. > > You know, I've made some pretty awful 'garb' in the past, and a lot of > fantasy inspired apparel, and worn it to all kinds of events, and nobody > has ever said an unkind thing to me about it. Well, one person did > comment that I was "dressed down" once, but I don't know if I could call > that an insult, as I was wearing a rather plain t-tunic at the time. > > I have received lots of compliments, anywhere from 'you look nice' > unspecific ones, to words like "I love the hat" and "you look very > period." And my personal favorites, overheard by friends and told to me > later, are when bystanders who think they are out of earshot whisper "I > want THAT outfit" when I walk past. > > I kind of wish that 20 years ago someone had said something to me, and > pointed me on the right track, because as a beginner I had no clue what > I was doing. On the other hand, I have no idea how to approach someone > who probably needs help, now that I do know what I'm doing. Which is > probably why I have the passive website for people who are looking to find. > > Anyway, has anyone here ever really had a 'garb snark' in their face? > > > > Dawn > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------=_NextPart_000_00AC_01C4021E.5FA0BAA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------=_NextPart_000_00AC_01C4021E.5FA0BAA0-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 22:37:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i253bZSd025021 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:37:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i253akcP014748; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:36:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i253akEa033917; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:36:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i253aiEa033885 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:36:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-38-170.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.38.170]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i253agw9017823 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:36:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040304192843.053b0510@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:33:56 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Other countries' names In-Reply-To: <200403042253.i24MrOql030386@jefferson.patriot.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In England today, they call chocolate chip cookies "Maryland" > cookies, but >here is the US I've never heard them attributed to any one state or place. Toll House cookies, named for the first place someone put broken bits of chocolate into cookie dough - the Toll House Restaurant in Massachusetts. Go to http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/story047.htm for the Nestle Chocolate Company's version of this invention. Obligatory costume content - on the page is a picture of the inventoress in a c.1930 dress. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 22:38:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i253cDSd025025 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:38:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i253bEcP014795; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:37:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i253bEEa034132; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:37:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i253anEa033945 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:36:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-38-170.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.38.170]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i253agwB017823 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:36:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040304193435.053af8f0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:36:39 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: being mistaken for a num In-Reply-To: References: <20040304234927.XPPZ3598.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO annora writes, in a message sent 05:20 PM 3/4/04 -1000: > > Well, it wasn't at an event, but at a school demo once I was heading > > out to the parking lot in my deep green silk surcote and veil and > > wimple, and heard someone say, "Look, a nun!" and point to me. It > > *was* a Catholic school, and I know nuns in habit aren't as common > > these days, but I didn't think they were that unfamiliar that they > > would mistake one wearing deep green silk for one. > > This isn't really historical costume related but it reminded me of >something funny that happened at work yesterday. I have hip-length black >hair which I often leave down. Yesterday I was wearing a long, rather >full white skirt. Someone who was walking behind me from the parking lot >later came and told me that from the back at a distance she thought I was >a nun! St. Elizabeth's Catholic school is nearby and some of the nuns do >wear white habits with black veils :>. A number of years ago I encountered a Carmelite nun in a craft store. I think they were the last to wear long Medieval-ish habits. I asked her about the outfit, and got lucky in having asked a nun who knew about the history of what she was wearing and who would answer a question or two about it. This must have been 30 years ago, and I don't know if Carmelites still wear long habits. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 22:40:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i253eTSd025037 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:40:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i253dVcP014926; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:39:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i253dPEa035080; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:39:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out003.verizon.net (out003pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i253dNEa035058 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:39:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp ([4.62.21.200]) by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040305033922.YRIN2031.out003.verizon.net@brandyscomp>; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:39:22 -0600 Message-ID: <00ea01c40263$752b0cf0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> From: "Brandy Deming" To: "SCA Costumes" , "Historic Costume List" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:39:24 -0800 Organization: Better Times for Small Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [4.62.21.200] at Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:39:21 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fw: [STEPS] OT: Looking For... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim Mays" To: "BAO" ; "AnTir" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:45 AM Subject: [STEPS] OT: Looking For... > I am searching for a Puget Sound (preferably Pierce or King county) company > to manufacture Aluminum Shield Blanks for The Badgers Den. If you have > information or can send me in the right direction, it would be greatly > appreciated. We're also looking for a local welder (same area range) who > can make sword / shield baskets in bulk. > > Please direct all responses to owner@badgersden.com > > Thanks > Kim Mays, Owner > www.badgersden.com > > > > > > > -------------------- << "steps@antir.sca.org" >> -------------------- > The Cathedral Steps - Kingdom of An Tir email list > To unsubscribe, e-mail: steps-unsubscribe@antir.sca.org > For additional commands, e-mail: steps-help@antir.sca.org > --=-- > Please behave yourself: http://www.antir.sca.org/Lists/guide.html > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 4 23:22:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i254MjSd025184 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:22:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i254LncP017220; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:21:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i254LiEa054097; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:21:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i254LYEb054016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:21:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i254KQ7j006607 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:20:26 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:20:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40480047.5010606@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:21:27 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: being mistaken for a num References: <20040304234927.XPPZ3598.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost> <4.3.1.2.20040304193435.053af8f0@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040304193435.053af8f0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was at a huge SCA event several years ago. I had on a tunic-cut dress with huge gores, in vertically striped red and cream and other colors, somewhat faded. And veils and bands, and I was greeted by a stranger on the road "Good morning, Sister!" -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 00:30:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i255UNSd025392 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 00:30:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i255QpcP020815; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:26:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i255QkEa083039; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:26:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav27.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i255QhEa082993 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:26:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:09:23 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav27.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 05:09:22 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040304203259.24617.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] garb snarks Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 00:10:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2004 05:09:23.0015 (UTC) FILETIME=[05CD4D70:01C40270] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > That bites. Big time. Support her and encourage her to wear the hat again. I > love those hats!! I have a coffee filter hat too, and I love it. People are mostly curious about it. Once I got a comment along the lines of "it looks like a coffee filter!" to which I answered something along the lines of "Yes, it does". But aside from that, since I'm one of the only ones who bother wearing a hat, people are generally interested in it :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 01:29:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i256T4Sd025639 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 01:29:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i256S7cP023874; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:28:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i256RxEa008009; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:28:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pengo.systems.pipex.net (pengo.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.193]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i256RtEa007976 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:27:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by pengo.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 796FE4C0006D for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 05:58:01 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <002a01c40276$c7b5e680$97725651@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040304234927.XPPZ3598.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost> <4.3.1.2.20040304193435.053af8f0@mail.frys.com> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 05:57:44 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Carmelite Habit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 3:36 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: being mistaken for a num > > A number of years ago I encountered a Carmelite nun in a craft store. I > think they were the last to wear long Medieval-ish habits. I asked her > about the outfit, and got lucky in having asked a nun who knew about the > history of what she was wearing and who would answer a question or two > about it. This must have been 30 years ago, and I don't know if Carmelites > still wear long habits. > Two of my friends are Carmelite nuns, so I can tell you that their habit was modernised following the order by the Second Vatican Council to all religious orders to consider how they could renew themselves in modern times. The Council began in 1962, but it took years for them to work through all the work, and then the various religious orders took some time to consider how to completely rewrite their constitutions without losing their original spirit, so the change in dress didn't work through to the ordinary nun until maybe the beginning of the 1970s. They still wear clothes which look superficially like the old habit in length, colour and style, but now they are made from what look to me like man-made fibres. Also, they wear modern underwear and sandals. They are still committed to poverty, so make and mend as much as they can, and are always grateful for Christmas presents of things like a warm vest or packets of pop-socks. (Pop-socks - is this an English term? - they look like nylon stockings but only reach to somewhere between ankle and knee.) If anyone is really interested, I could write to ask for more information. There are still nuns alive who can tell you all about the details of their old clothing and how it was worn, which was often preserved in every detail from the day their order was founded. That includes everything from woollen hose and early Medieval underwear to pinned-on sleeves and complicated head-dresses. It seems to me that these nuns are a great resource for anyone who wants to research the costume of the particular time and place of the founders - but a resource which will soon be lost forever. Linda Walton, (in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 02:23:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i257NJSd012354 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 02:23:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i257LIcP025354; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 00:21:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i257KpEa028365; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 00:20:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i257KmEa028345 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 00:20:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-38-170.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.38.170]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i257Kkw9011761 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:20:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040304224725.05a53e20@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:50:11 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carmelite Habit In-Reply-To: <002a01c40276$c7b5e680$97725651@bella> References: <20040304234927.XPPZ3598.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost> <4.3.1.2.20040304193435.053af8f0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Two of my friends are Carmelite nuns, so I can tell you that their habit was >modernised following the order by the Second Vatican Council to all >religious orders to consider how they could renew themselves in modern >times. The Council began in 1962, but it took years for them to work >through all the work, and then the various religious orders took some time >to consider how to completely rewrite their constitutions without losing >their original spirit, so the change in dress didn't work through to the >ordinary nun until maybe the beginning of the 1970s. > >They still wear clothes which look superficially like the old habit in >length, colour and style, but now they are made from what look to me like >man-made fibres. Also, they wear modern underwear and sandals. They are >still committed to poverty, so make and mend as much as they can, and are >always grateful for Christmas presents of things like a warm vest or packets >of pop-socks. (Pop-socks - is this an English term? - they look like nylon >stockings but only reach to somewhere between ankle and knee.) They're called "knee-highs" in California. >If anyone is really interested, I could write to ask for more information. >There are still nuns alive who can tell you all about the details of their >old clothing and how it was worn, which was often preserved in every detail >from the day their order was founded. That includes everything from woollen >hose and early Medieval underwear to pinned-on sleeves and complicated >head-dresses. It seems to me that these nuns are a great resource for >anyone who wants to research the costume of the particular time and place of >the founders - but a resource which will soon be lost forever. Wow, thanks. Is there a book about this? An online resource? I don't know where to start asking questions. I guess what I want is a dress-able doll wearing all the parts, and the book of the history and description to go with it. Failing which, I can probably go ask at the same nunnery that Carmelite lived in. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 04:06:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2596cSd019856 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 04:06:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2594mcP028527; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 02:04:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2594cEa070760; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 02:04:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2594TEa070701 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 02:04:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from scourney@nwlink.com) Received: from susan (ip157.usw235.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [207.202.235.157]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 938C76AADD; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 00:46:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <027801c4028e$da14bbe0$0200a8c0@susan> From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" , References: <40464F54.107@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Modern Fashion in Detail Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 00:50:01 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have it checked out of the library right now. It covers the 20th c. And like the historic one, has nice pictures of clothing details with line drawings of the entire dress. Has a pretty wide variety of designers, with a few generic. I like it just for seeing the way designers work with fabric. It's easy seeing the odd stuff that get published in the paper and magazines to dismiss name designers as not being relevant. But the more I look and learn about how they design adn how they work with fabric, the more I admire what they do. If you have any specific questions, let me know. Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:34 PM Subject: [h-cost] Modern Fashion in Detail > Can anyone tell me more about this book? I'm having a hard time finding > out what the contents are, other than a single review which compares it > to _Fashion in detail - 17th & 18th Century_. Is it entirely pictures? > Is there any commentary? Diagrams? What are the years that are covered? > > My husband's employer is offering books from this publisher at half > price, and this is about the only costume book we can find on the list. > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 07:12:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25CCJSd020851 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:12:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25CBJcP004977; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 05:11:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25CBCEa039215; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 05:11:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25CBAEa039200 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 05:11:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8A741D461 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 06:11:09 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p446.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.192]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CC9E4D3EE for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 06:11:08 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garb Snarks Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 06:11:13 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040304140056.02571ea8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I actually invisioned when you said that was, flannel plaid made into norse garb and carrying axes, with a sign that says "I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK.... Ah where the mind will go when on pain killers. De -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Katie Pleasance Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 4:05 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks Hmmm .... I think I *will* take that plaid flannel sheeting and make a couple of Kass's leinte for hubby and me. Carry wooden sticks with a line and hook on each. And hang signs on our backs that say "Trolling for Garb Snarks" ... Katie At 04:38 PM 3/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 3/4/2004 3:26:31 PM Central Standard Time, >otsisto@socket.net writes: >Must file this for future costumes. :) > >De > >My favorite garb piece ever is my leopard print bodice ::grin::. > >-Tiff >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 09:25:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25EPvSd021456 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:25:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25EP5cP010560; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:25:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25EP3Ea090519; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:25:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25EOwEb090475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:24:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i25EscWm015186 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:54:38 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AE0C28E7005A; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:26:20 -0500 Received: from itsloaner3.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.122]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:26:19 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <008901c402be$5a631060$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200403042253.i24MrOql030386@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Other countries' names Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:29:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And in New England, it is "the Original Toll House Cookie" Kathleen----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 5:53 PM Subject: [h-cost] Other countries' names > Hi Bjarne, > > Well, there is the Robe Anglaise, also named for English. On the other > hand, the English named certain diseases after the French, and I don't think > the French were the only ones to have them. > > In England today, they call chocolate chip cookies "Maryland" cookies, but > here is the US I've never heard them attributed to any one state or place. > > I don't know why things are named after certain places, does it really > come from that place or is it just a way to call something that's different? > > -Carol > > > Bjarne og Leif Drews said: > > > Carol! > > This is very interresting points you made with Mara. > > Still i am in question. Why did Garsault write that english stays are front laced and vise versa? > > Could this be that Garsault actually knew nothing at all about english style stays? > > The french and the englishmen were enemies - at war all the time, and could this just be a mob to the english, that they were so stupid that they laced their corsets in the front? > > Many other books writes the same, but i guess this is because they rely on Garsault. > > Any thoaghts about this? > > > > Bjarne > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 09:41:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25EfTSd021602 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:41:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25EeVcP011472; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:40:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25EePEa097368; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:40:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25EeLEa097348 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:40:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a216.in-tch.com [66.62.107.16]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i25EHas07031 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:17:36 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <40489218.5080906@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 07:43:36 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Other countries' names References: <200403042253.i24MrOql030386@jefferson.patriot.net> <008901c402be$5a631060$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <008901c402be$5a631060$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, great! Now the choc. chips in the cupboard are calling to me. It's a cold and rainy/snowy day, so it's *perfect* for making cookies. Regardless of whether I actually have to go to work! --sue Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > And in New England, it is "the Original Toll House Cookie" > Kathleen----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 5:53 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Other countries' names > > > >>Hi Bjarne, >> >> Well, there is the Robe Anglaise, also named for English. On the > > other > >>hand, the English named certain diseases after the French, and I don't > > think > >>the French were the only ones to have them. >> >> In England today, they call chocolate chip cookies "Maryland" > > cookies, but > >>here is the US I've never heard them attributed to any one state or place. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 09:52:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25EqaSd021684 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:52:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25EpscP012127; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:51:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25EppEa002996; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:51:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25EpnEa002959 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:51:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a216.in-tch.com [66.62.107.16]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i25ET3s12491 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:29:03 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <404894C8.7020906@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 07:55:04 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oooh. That's evil. I might have to steal it! I've got two "fun" outfits in the planning stages. One is a fitted gown and surcoat combination--Teddy's fault, as he was the one who challenged me to actually *do* something from pink and orange. The fitted gown is fuschia-pink worsted wool (with a matching pink linen lining), and the surcoat is tangerine-orange velvet. I should look like a large sunrise in it! I'll wear it on Saturday mornings at SCA camping events as a "hangover revenge" outfit, since I don't stay up late and party... I'm also known as a "stealth laurel" (old, long in-joke), and I've been threatening for years to show up at some future peer-laden event or meeting dressed in Camo Elizabethan, but I heard that's been done. So I've been thinking, maybe Urban Camo? Inexpensive twill fabric that I could paint and distress and add things like possible 16th c. graffiti to? --sue otsisto wrote: > I suddenly got a picture of cow print and little cow buttons going up the > arms and front. Then I saw a sideless surcote made from the the hawiian > flame print material interchange with stripes of black, like wrotiron. for > "Gates of hell" > > Must file this for future costumes. :) > > De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 10:06:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25F6vSd021769 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:06:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25F2LcP012673; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:02:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25F28Ea007918; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:02:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25F26Ea007885 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:02:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13882 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:32:36 -0600 Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:32:35 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garb Snarks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, otsisto wrote: > I actually invisioned when you said that was, flannel plaid made into > norse garb and carrying axes, with a sign that says "I'm a lumberjack > and I'm OK.... I sympathize. Every time I see this subject line, my brain reads it as "Garb Snacks." > Ah where the mind will go when on pain killers. Or cough medicine. --Robin, coughing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 10:10:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25FAhSd021776 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:10:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25F76cP012979; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:07:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25F74Ea010573; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:07:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25F6YEa010130 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:06:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i25F6FT26970.; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:06:15 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:06:15 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:06:01 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Other countries' names Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> aquazoo@patriot.net 04/03/04 22:53:11 >>> wrote: > In England today, they call chocolate chip cookies "Maryland" >cookies, but here is the US I've never heard them attributed to any one >state or place. The product name "Maryland cookies" was used by the first biscuit manufacturer to market such things in the UK 30 or 40 years ago, and you can still buy that brand, but it isn't the universal name for them now the concept is well known. > I don't know why things are named after certain places, does it really >come from that place or is it just a way to call something that's different? Yes, often it is - e.g. French knitting for lucet-type work on 4 pins. (Better not start another long OT thread here...) Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 10:13:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25FDwSd021790 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:13:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25FDPcP013419; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:13:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25FDKEa014193; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:13:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25FDHEb014166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:13:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i25FCK7j010969 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:12:20 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:12:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40489912.7030902@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:13:22 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks & silliness References: <404894C8.7020906@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <404894C8.7020906@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Years ago at Pennsic, one morning I saw down the road, a woman dressed in a full-skirted something made entirely of lavender lurex (metallic fabric). I don't know if it was a prom dress that she thought looked Elizabethan, or a joke outfit, or if she was in all seriousness, having made it herself. But the image has stayed with me for lo these 20 years. One event in the West held a "silly hat" competition. I entered the hat of Mistress Sebastian, St. Sebastian's younger sister, who (so I explained in the documentation) died in much the same was as he did. The hat was a truncated cone butterfly style with the veil held up with arrow shafts instead of wires. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 10:33:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25FXkSd021878 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:33:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25FWxcP014843; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25FWsEa025055; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:32:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25FWnEa025034 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:32:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu (vcs077.vet.cornell.edu [128.253.111.77]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i25FWkmR025533 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:32:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040305102908.00bbbd88@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:32:50 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: <404894C8.7020906@in-tch.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Silliness: was - Garb Snarks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Some of these ideas are great- I must admit that I have one in the works... based on my nickname of "Poodle Lady"... Elizabethan in black with a screaming pink forepart... and on the forepart a silver chain running down to a black appliqued poodle. Think 1950s poodle skirt, gone 1550s... And that's it. Bridgette. >Oooh. That's evil. I might have to steal it! >I've got two "fun" outfits in the planning stages. One is a fitted gown >and surcoat combination--Teddy's fault, as he was the one who challenged >me to actually *do* something from pink and orange. The fitted gown is >fuschia-pink worsted wool (with a matching pink linen lining), and the >surcoat is tangerine-orange velvet. I should look like a large sunrise in >it! I'll wear it on Saturday mornings at SCA camping events as a >"hangover revenge" outfit, since I don't stay up late and party... >I'm also known as a "stealth laurel" (old, long in-joke), and I've been >threatening for years to show up at some future peer-laden event or >meeting dressed in Camo Elizabethan, but I heard that's been done. So >I've been thinking, maybe Urban Camo? Inexpensive twill fabric that I >could paint and distress and add things like possible 16th c. graffiti to? >--sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 10:41:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25FfqSd021933 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:41:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25Fe8cP015437; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:40:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25Fe4Ea029209; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:40:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i25FdvEa029123 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:39:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040305153957.52333.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 07:39:57 PST Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:39:57 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garb Snarks To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is that like little cookies made into clothing shapes?? Albra (getting these funny little visuals of gingerbread elizabetheans doublets ---and choking tea all over her keyboard!) Robin Netherton wrote: On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, otsisto wrote: > I actually invisioned when you said that was, flannel plaid made into > norse garb and carrying axes, with a sign that says "I'm a lumberjack > and I'm OK.... I sympathize. Every time I see this subject line, my brain reads it as "Garb Snacks." > Ah where the mind will go when on pain killers. Or cough medicine. --Robin, coughing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 10:53:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25FrwSd022045 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:53:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25FrGcP016549; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:53:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25Fr7Ea036892; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:53:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25FqxEa036781 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:53:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:52:53 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Beta Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:52:44 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think I have subconciously repressed any memories of garb snarking from my early years in SCA and the local renfaire except for one, and the garb in question wasn't even present. Several of us were having a general garb farble at some event and I mentioned I was making a cotehardie for my brother-in-law who plays the lute to wear at his gigs. Someone jumped on me and said they weren't period with lutes. My mind immediately jumped to the period illumination I was using for research but since the book was at home and I couldnt' remember the name I kept mum. Probably the reason I remember this, it helped me to start keeping better track of my sources :). I have definately mellowed over the years and found that I roll with the punches easier than I used to. Having helped too many rennies costume on a budget I am also probably a little more tolerant of good modern substitutions, as my own viking apron dress (made from $1 yard poly that looks like wool) and brooches ('70's shoebuckles) can attest. Except for competitions naturally. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 11:10:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25GAZSd022181 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:10:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25G9pcP017802; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:09:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25G9kEa047317; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:09:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25G9QEa047124 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:09:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14267 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:39:57 -0600 Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:39:57 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garb Snarks In-Reply-To: <20040305153957.52333.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > Is that like little cookies made into clothing shapes?? > Albra > (getting these funny little visuals of gingerbread elizabetheans > doublets ---and choking tea all over her keyboard!) That sounds a lot more appetizing than fabric made into cookies, which is where my mind was going. I think I'm going to go bake something. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 11:49:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25Gn7Sd022411 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:49:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25GmIcP021324; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:48:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25GmDEa072572; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:48:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25Gm9Ea072523 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:48:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i25G3QZ27942 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:03:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-65.58.148.189.dial1.pittsburgh1.level3.net ([65.58.148.189] helo=HELENPINTO) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AzHnI-000084-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 08:03:24 -0800 Message-ID: <011a01c402cb$62086330$bd943a41@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <404894C8.7020906@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:03:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef0ff9d7d9304b65b16223395f1fd1e34e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue wrote: I've been > threatening for years to show up at some future peer-laden event or > meeting dressed in Camo Elizabethan, but I heard that's been done. Guilty as charged, but that was a long time ago- early 80's. Nearly 50 yds of black piping went on it, too. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 12:01:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25H1SSd022499 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:01:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25H0RcP022541; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:00:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25H0NEa080920; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:00:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from thrednedlestrete.com (mail02.enterhost.com [69.93.13.234]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25H0KEa080830 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:00:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:00:13 -0600 Message-Id: <200403051100.AA350093572@thrednedlestrete.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks X-Mailer: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just had lunch in a wonderful new bakery/cafe yesterday with some workmates. Looking at the princess cakes draped with marzipan reminded me that those doll cakes seem to be passe now. But I was thinking how easy it would be to make the marzipan fall into pleats such as on top of a "catherine wheel" ........... oh never mind. Lisa Sinervo ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Helen Pinto" Reply-To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:03:15 -0500 >Sue wrote: >I've been >> threatening for years to show up at some future peer-laden event or >> meeting dressed in Camo Elizabethan, but I heard that's been done. > >Guilty as charged, but that was a long time ago- early 80's. Nearly 50 yds >of black piping went on it, too. > -Helen/Aidan > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 12:03:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25H3qSd022502 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:03:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25H2qcP022816; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:02:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25H2mEa082494; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:02:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9407.mail.yahoo.com (web9407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i25H2fEa082430 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:02:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040305170241.2593.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:02:41 PST Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:02:41 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <011a01c402cb$62086330$bd943a41@HELENPINTO> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Di you ever wear it to a West Coast Costumner's College? I think I saw it! I loved it:) Albra Helen Pinto wrote: Sue wrote: I've been > threatening for years to show up at some future peer-laden event or > meeting dressed in Camo Elizabethan, but I heard that's been done. Guilty as charged, but that was a long time ago- early 80's. Nearly 50 yds of black piping went on it, too. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 12:08:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25H8RSd022523 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:08:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25H7rcP023437; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:07:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25H7pEa085888; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:07:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25H7nEb085861 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:07:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i25H6p7j011471 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:06:51 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:06:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4048B3E9.3060801@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:07:53 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks References: <20040305170241.2593.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040305170241.2593.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>threatening for years to show up at some future peer-laden event or >>meeting dressed in Camo Elizabethan, but I heard that's been done. > > Guilty as charged, but that was a long time ago- early 80's. Nearly 50 yds > of black piping went on it, too. I think, then, there must have been several instances of independent invention, as I know of another which wasn't you. An idea whose time had come! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 12:27:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25HR1Sd022659 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:27:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25HQEcP025142; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:26:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25HQBEa098872; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:26:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25HQ6Ea098824 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:26:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i25HF9Z13783 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:15:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-65.58.148.189.dial1.pittsburgh1.level3.net ([65.58.148.189] helo=HELENPINTO) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AzIug-0002IK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:15:06 -0800 Message-ID: <01a301c402d5$665f0790$bd943a41@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040305170241.2593.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:15:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9efe448bc09ed153617085cc1090d3738d6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No, never been to the West Coast. In any case, it wasn't for me- I made it for the Pennsic autocrat. I don't know if she wore it any place other than Coopers'. -Helen/Aidan ----- Original Message ----- From: "KATHRYN WOLTERS" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 12:02 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks > Di you ever wear it to a West Coast Costumner's College? I think I saw it! I loved it:) > Albra > > Helen Pinto wrote: > Sue wrote: > I've been > > threatening for years to show up at some future peer-laden event or > > meeting dressed in Camo Elizabethan, but I heard that's been done. > > Guilty as charged, but that was a long time ago- early 80's. Nearly 50 yds > of black piping went on it, too. > -Helen/Aidan > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 12:50:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25HoBSd022789 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:50:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25HlEcP027259; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:47:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25Hl5Ea013994; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:47:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:ukOup96xkbgpkiflgjbOsRYmD/9V7/Yt@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25Hl2Ea013955 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:47:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i25Hl1Xh008686 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:47:01 -0500 Message-Id: <200403051747.i25Hl1Xh008686@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:46:48 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Kinsey said: > Several of us were having a general garb farble at some > event and I mentioned I was making a cotehardie for my > brother-in-law who plays the lute to wear at his gigs. > Someone jumped on me and said they weren't period with lutes. I don't think of this as snarking, I think snarking is when you're at an event, having a good time, and someone makes negative comments on what you are wearing. I've had plenty of conversations about things that I or someone else was thinking of making, and sharing what we thought was correct or not. Sounds like the person was not polite about it, but that happens with strong opinions. Whether the garb is correct or not, whether the snarker knows the topic or not, it's a matter of "correcting" someone at a time when they can't change it. I may be able rearrange something that isn't quite right, but I'm not going to haul out a dyepot and change the color of my dress. It's a shame that it's so rampant in the SCA, because bad garb is still an attempt at garb, and therefore "right" according to the SCA rules. Reenactment groups sometimes have written standards and clothing inspectors, to be sure everything worn is within the standards. Other groups are more lax, and more snarking occurs. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 13:07:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25I7gSd022904 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:07:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25I6vcP028930; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:06:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25I6qEa027554; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:06:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25I6oEa027519 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:06:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AzJih-0008Tn-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:06:48 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:26:56 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures in Sweden, last summer References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't think it would be period for 11th century, although of course we have so few sources for people working, getting their veils out of the way. Certainly don't do the version with the tightly twisted band, that's quite distinctively 14th. It depends where you are from in the 11th century, I think Viking styles tend to be more "liberated" than Saxon, but mostly the headcovering is draped across the front of the neck and chest. Jean Jennifer Sena wrote >On the last page of pictures, the second and third pics show a head >wrap. Can anyone tell me how to make/wear one? It's just white with >some way of wrapping it, but I love the look. Since I'm launching into >11th century I hope it fits. Either way, if someone knows how or where >find out how, please email me at distantdesigns@hotmail.com . > >Thanks, > > >Jennifer Sena >Distant Designs >http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi > >I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! > > > > > >>From: Ingrid G. Storrø >>Reply-To: Historical Costume >>To: h-costume@indra.com >>Subject: [h-cost] Pictures from an event in Sweden, last summer >>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:41:27 +0100 (CET) >> >>Hi, all! I only just realized that they've put up pictures from a >>wonderful event I attended last summer, Hantverkslägret (Camp of Crafts) >>in Kronoberg, Sweden. It was a mixed-period event, ranging mostly from >>9th/10th to late 14th century, where the participants came to perform >>period crafts together for a bit over a week. I thought maybe some of >>you would enjoy the pictures. :) Unfortunatly it was so hot that a lot >>of people left their wool layers off for the workday, especially those >>working around fires, so some of the best costumes aren't pictured >>because it was so dark when people put them on. :/ >> >>The main site is here >>http://www.hantverkslagret.org/hantverkslagret/index.asp >>, and a direct link to the picture galleries is >>here : >>http://www.hantverkslagret.org/hantverkslagret/tidigare_verksamhet/kron >>oberg_2003/s_2003.asp >>. >> >>It's all in Swedish I'm afraid, but the seven picture galleries should >>be easy enough to navigate anyway. :) >> >>Ingrid >> >>-- >>This email has been scanned for viruses & spam by Decna as - www.decna.no >>Denne E-post er sjekket for virus & spam av Decna as - www.decna.no >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_________________________________________________________________ >Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage – 4 plans to choose >from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 13:08:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25I8hSd022910 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:08:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25I83cP029026; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25I81Ea028348; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:08:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25I7uEa028243 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:07:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19E5342615 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:21:43 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4048C3EA.2030503@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:16:10 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks References: <200403051747.i25Hl1Xh008686@jefferson.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <200403051747.i25Hl1Xh008686@jefferson.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > It's a shame that it's so rampant in the SCA, because bad garb is still an > attempt at garb, and therefore "right" according to the SCA rules. Reenactment > groups sometimes have written standards and clothing inspectors, to be sure > everything worn is within the standards. Other groups are more lax, and more > snarking occurs. > One of the funniest conversations I overheard about 8 years ago was a couple of fantasy LARPers ripping up someone elses' outfit because "that's not what they wore back then." Back when? One of the people doing the complaining wasn't even dressed as a human. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 13:40:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25IeCSd023044 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:40:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25IdTcP003303; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:39:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25IdIEa050857; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:39:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25IdGEa050744 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:39:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.a0.6c9726d (4116) for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:39:06 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:39:06 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/5/2004 12:08:47 PM Central Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: Back when? One of the people doing the complaining wasn't even dressed as a human. Dawn OMG ROFLMAO - thank you, Dawn! I haven't had this good a laugh in DAYS! ::grumbling my way through a courtesan outfit that has a few too many elements:: -Tiff _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 13:41:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25IfcSd023050 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:41:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25IercP003421; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:40:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25IepEa052054; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:40:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25IejEa051924 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:40:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (pcp03026555pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.37.232.18]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i25IeP6a007670 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:40:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040305132710.0578ad98@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:39:27 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Ouch! BAD memories! (WAS: Re: Re: [h-cost] LATE 15TH CENTURY THROUGH 16TH CENTURY) In-Reply-To: <200403041756.i24HuKKk058794@net.indra.com> References: <200403041756.i24HuKKk058794@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:43:48 EST, Tiff wrote: >...So I try to stay within the bounds of reason, and just have fun. If >people have a problem with it they can go discuss it with the guy in the >plaid flannel kilt. Cripes -- I've seen that guy! Well, a similarly-dressed guy. <*shudders*> One of the folk who, for a while, was hanging out with the rennies in our STAR TREK club. First time I met him, he was bragging about his supposed experience fitting young women's corsets, embellishing his description with... I'd call them obscene gestures, except that he was *performing* the acts he was describing. <*shudder*> At least he kept his hands on himself <*shudder*> The first faire after that we went to, he wore a cotton flannelette "kilt"; it was beyond laughable (especially compared to the fellow he was trying to imitate)... I really did *not* need those images popping back into my brain, *thank* you! Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 13:48:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25ImKSd023087 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:48:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25IlZcP004076; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:47:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25IlYEa056814; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:47:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25IlSEa056764 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:47:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([207.68.60.205]) by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040305184250.BIMR9273.out002.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:42:50 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:42:48 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <4048C3EA.2030503@reddawn.net> Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [207.68.60.205] at Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:42:49 -0600 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Years ago in California there was a Fantasy Faire (maybe it still happens I don't know). I was reading a review of the first one in the L.A. Times and they interviewed one of the participants. I will have to paraphrase as it was years ago, but she said something like." I am a 13th century Elf, this is a dirk, that's the sort of knife that elves carried in the 13th century". I always wondered where she got her documentation! Cheers, Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Dawn > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 1:16 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks > > > > > > It's a shame that it's so rampant in the SCA, because bad > garb is still an > > attempt at garb, and therefore "right" according to the SCA > rules. Reenactment > > groups sometimes have written standards and clothing > inspectors, to be sure > > everything worn is within the standards. Other groups are more > lax, and more > > snarking occurs. > > > > One of the funniest conversations I overheard about 8 years ago was a > couple of fantasy LARPers ripping up someone elses' outfit because > "that's not what they wore back then." > > Back when? One of the people doing the complaining wasn't even dressed > as a human. > > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 14:03:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25J3hSd023181 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:03:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25J2icP005405; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:02:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25J2fEa067330; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:02:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20206.mail.yahoo.com (web20206.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i25J2FEa066960 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:02:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040305185532.73480.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:55:32 PST Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:55:32 -0800 (PST) From: Angela Kessler To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <40489218.5080906@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Silliness/Other countries' names X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > Oh, great! Now the choc. chips in the cupboard are > calling to me. It's > a cold and rainy/snowy day, so it's *perfect* for > making cookies. > Regardless of whether I actually have to go to work! > --sue > One of the funniest cartoons I ever saw ("Randolph Itch 2:00am"): Motivational poster: That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Guy's thought bubble: A few chocolate chip cookies wouldn't kill me. Later thought bubble: Suddenly I feel strong enough to finish the whole box. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 14:44:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25JilSd023399 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:44:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25Ji3cP009061; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:44:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25JhwEa096932; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:43:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14005.mail.yahoo.com (web14005.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i25JhqEa096881 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:43:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040305194350.49562.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 19:43:50 GMT Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 19:43:50 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] renfair follies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Whenever my 16th century friends and I go out to a renfair, we refer to outlandishly dressed people as "Irish" because certainly, we've never seen anyone dressed that way back in Valencia. And we have heard what barbarians the "Irish" are. Catalina p.s. My granmother was an O'Flaherty so it is all meant in fun. ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 14:56:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25Ju1Sd023446 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:56:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25JtGcP009959; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:55:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25JtDEa004751; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:55:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f35.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25Jt9Ea004646 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:55:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from distantdesigns@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:12:13 -0800 Received: from 24.21.37.141 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 19:12:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.21.37.141] X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com] X-Sender: distantdesigns@hotmail.com From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:12:13 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2004 19:12:13.0476 (UTC) FILETIME=[C4254640:01C402E5] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] thanks and one more? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO First I want to thank Ingrid for the approximate dimensions!! Can't get it right if I don't have the size. These measurements will get me started. :) And Thank you Jean for the time clarification. darn my hubby's choice of cent. I really like the look of this wrap and I will at least wear it to keep my hair under control for set-up, working in the yard at home, etc. My town is used to seeing my family and me running around in bits of our garb. Now, does anyone know what the French were wearing on their heads in the eleventh century. I started years ago with a French personna and would rather focus my research on a French lady's habits and needs. I've got the saxon part for my hubby and while I am traveling with his "mercenary band" and would therefore be influenced by living in Saxon/Norman England, I also want to know more about the French fashions, fabrics, and trims. I want to work out a decent blend and then start working on getting the right fabrics and even *gasp* hand finishing where needed. Thank you all for willingly sharing the treasure that is your knowledge, Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – download MSN Toolbar now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 15:41:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25Kf9Sd023702 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:41:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25KeRcP013623; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:40:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25KePEa035873; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:40:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25KeHEa035812 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:40:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i25KZtD22301 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:35:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from 209-165-41-003.jps.net ([209.165.41.3] helo=[209.165.47.136]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AzM2w-0008DX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:35:50 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002a01c40276$c7b5e680$97725651@bella> References: <20040304234927.XPPZ3598.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhos t> <4.3.1.2.20040304193435.053af8f0@mail.frys.com> <002a01c40276$c7b5e680$97725651@bella> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:33:20 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Carmelite Habit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 5:57 AM +0000 3/5/04, Linda Walton wrote: >If anyone is really interested, I could write to ask for more information. >There are still nuns alive who can tell you all about the details of their >old clothing and how it was worn, which was often preserved in every detail >from the day their order was founded. That includes everything from woollen >hose and early Medieval underwear to pinned-on sleeves and complicated >head-dresses. It seems to me that these nuns are a great resource for >anyone who wants to research the costume of the particular time and place of >the founders - but a resource which will soon be lost forever. I'd encourage some caution, though. It's good that you've found some nuns who are genuinely well educated about the subject, but few monks or nuns are costume experts. The idea that religious clothing is _completely_ unchanged from the date of the Order's founding is commonly believed, especially by members of a group who were told this in their novitiate years, but it's not necessarily true, and deserves to be tested against other contemporary evidence like any other hypothesis. For instance, there are surviving 13th-century habits that belonged to St. Francis of Assisi and St. Antony of Padua, and a mantle that belonged to St. Clare, which can yield a good deal of information about the original clothing of the Franciscan Orders at least. It's interesting that Orders with origins in the 16th century and earlier (like the Carmelites) tend to have relatively simple clothing. The Poor Clares and some Benedictines also are still wearing essentially T-tunics, wimples, and unstarched veils. In my experience, the elaborate headdresses that many groups of nuns wore before Vatican II tend to belong to the multitudes of teaching and nursing orders that were founded in the 18th and 19th centuries, derived from the elaborate "peasant" costumes worn by many ethnic communities in Europe at the time. I know there are a few people around who are studying monastic clothing, but it's an area where not a lot of solid research has been done, or at least where it's not yet made its way into common discussion. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 15:59:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25KxgSd023780 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:59:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25KwscP015272; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:58:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25KwiEa048280; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:58:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25KwYEa048150 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:58:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i25KZqe11249 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:35:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from 209-165-41-003.jps.net ([209.165.41.3] helo=[209.165.47.136]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AzM2u-0008DX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:35:48 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200403051747.i25Hl1Xh008686@jefferson.patriot.net> References: <200403051747.i25Hl1Xh008686@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:16:02 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Kinsey said: > Several of us were having a general garb farble at some > event and I mentioned I was making a cotehardie for my > brother-in-law who plays the lute to wear at his gigs. > Someone jumped on me and said they weren't period with lutes. I'd never heard it called a "garb farble" before, but I love it . At 5:46 PM +0000 3/5/04, wrote: > I don't think of this as snarking, I think snarking is when you're at an >event, having a good time, and someone makes negative comments on what you are >wearing. I'm not so sure. I would also class discussing someone else's garb with my friends as "snarking," even though the person isn't present and may not (and hopefully won't) find out what was being said about them. Granted, providing the person _doesn't_ ever hear about it and the friends you're talking to charitably forget your comments, this doesn't do _nearly_ as much harm as walking up to someone and telling them what's "wrong" with their clothing. We all need to let off steam and make fun of things sometimes, and many of the attempts people make to look "medieval" are genuinely quite funny if you're amused (as I am) by the odd ideas people get about what "medieval" is supposed to look like and how things are made. In my opinion, what each of us needs to watch carefully is our own attitude and tone of voice. If I'm amused by someone's ideas, but I respect and appreciate the effort they've made and genuinely would like to help them, that's one thing. If I'm using the topic of someone's garb as a way to call them stupid, incompetent, dishonest or flaky, or for that matter to take out my irritation with them over something else, or as a vent for any free-floating anger I have lying around, that's quite another. I do, unfortunately, catch myself in the latter attitude more often than I'd like. To me it also seems that "group snarking" is more likely to go in that direction, and I've been in enough such situations to know that _that_ kind of discussion only tends to get worse, and to have bad effects on people's attitudes in the long run. For what it's worth, BTW, snarking is not a phenomenon confined to costuming. I used to do quite a bit of folk dancing, and people are just as likely to make comments that a particular dance or style isn't authentically "ethnic," and jokes and grumbles about the supposed "Ethnic Police" who walk up to people and tell them they're doing it all wrong. :) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 16:48:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25LmGSd024087 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:48:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25LlJcP020751; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:47:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25Ll3Ea082169; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:47:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:CL3P/EJLayp+qJ1dDYSdARXuTwBi5lEj@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25LkwEa082114 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:47:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i25Lku1S008025 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:46:56 -0500 Message-Id: <200403052146.i25Lku1S008025@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:46:43 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chris Laning said: > I'm not so sure. I would also class discussing someone else's garb > with my friends as "snarking," even though the person isn't present > and may not (and hopefully won't) find out what was being said about > them. Oh, I thought that was good old fashioned cattiness! Snark was one word suggested to replace a certain German political term for people who are critical. But certianly the terms vary depending on the group, etc. > Granted, providing the person _doesn't_ ever hear about it and the > friends you're talking to charitably forget your comments, this > doesn't do _nearly_ as much harm as walking up to someone and telling > them what's "wrong" with their clothing. And sometimes it's an honest effort to educate a third party. "See that? don't do it!" It could be anywhere from bunny fur bikinis not being correct, to sharing a fitting trick that eliminates the wrinkles you see on dresses of a certain era. But the topic comes up because you see an example at the event. Often when people have something that's wrong, it's a compromise they made deliberately. They're more than happy to talk about it if invited into a conversation. And yes, some people really would rather have a new garment every event made from cheap fabric rather than saving up for one really correct outfit. > If I'm using the topic of someone's garb as a way to call them > stupid, incompetent, dishonest or flaky, or for that matter to > take out my irritation with them over something else, or as a > vent for any free-floating anger I have lying around, that's > quite another. Oh, absolutely! It does make life very difficult, however, if the person is any of those things and has very authentic garb. What do you pick on? It's infuriating! :-) > For what it's worth, BTW, snarking is not a phenomenon confined to > costuming. I used to do quite a bit of folk dancing, and people are > just as likely to make comments that a particular dance or style > isn't authentically "ethnic," and jokes and grumbles about the > supposed "Ethnic Police" who walk up to people and tell them they're > doing it all wrong. :) It's definitly part of being human! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 17:37:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25MbJSd024326 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:37:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25MaTcP025885; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:36:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25MaOEa016634; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:36:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out010.verizon.net (out010pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25MaIEa016586 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:36:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jauncourt@verizon.net) Received: from verizon.net ([4.12.175.251]) by out010.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040305221713.HEXQ26728.out010.verizon.net@verizon.net> for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:17:13 -0600 Message-ID: <4048FC6C.9050400@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:17:16 -0600 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-CA; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en, en-ca MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] My personal favorite critique ROFL References: <200403042012.i24KCBEb061376@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out010.verizon.net from [4.12.175.251] at Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:17:13 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is necessarily jumbled. I'm quoting your comments out of order, because my reply will make more sense that way. If has any chance of making sense, that is. Sigh. > Robin Netherton wrote thusly, quoting me: >> While I did cut these sleeves very like the method you give in your TI >> article (which I do have a copy of), and was happy with them at the >> time (1998), AND I think the shape is a period shape, I don't really >> think that they were constructed in this manner. It's too wasteful of >> fabric, and I don't like how the seam makes them hang (Especially the >> bias part). > So you weren't working from my article (originally published in the > Costume Research Journal in 2001, reprinted in 2002). Hmm, take a closer > look. Perhaps what you did *wasn't* the same as I have it. Argle. That rustling sound you've been hearing is me hunting for the copy of TI, which seems to be MIA. Not really surprising, since I moved recently, and my my house (and studio/office) is pure unadulterated chaos (or so it seems to me). Hang on. I'll straighen up a bit. I don't want to have a discussion with only half the facts and a vague recollection! Argh. A day later, office all straightened, books finally put where they belong, and I only seem to have half of my periodicals. It must be in the storage unit. In one of the dozens of boxes marked, oh-so-descriptively "books." Well, I'll do my best with my fuzzy reccollections. Please forgive misremembrances. > But I'm curious what you found wasteful. Even cut as is, mine don't have a > lot of waste -- the shavings you take off to make the curves are quite > minimal. Oh -- I see -- you were referring to the earlier (trumpet-sleeve) > cut? Yes, I think that can be done in a number of ways. But even the way I > have is not particularly wasteful, and does satisfy my "can I do it > patternless" criterion. I'd be interested in knowing of other methods that > produce the same shape and can be done straight from brain to cloth, on > period-width fabric, without measuring devices or calculations. (Actually, I am referring to the boat-shaped sleeve. I think the trumpet-shape was probably done with gores, set in on seams or cuts in the cloth, like a tunic's skirt is constructed.) Okay, from what I recall, having had the blue gown, my partially constructed red wool gown (same cut, different color, never got it done...), and the article in hand at the same time, the sleeve cut seemed wasteful *to me.* And I mean 'wasteful' in that there was something left over besides the circlular off cut from the neckline and perhaps a square or small rectangle of cloth. Waste is also defined, to me, by how useful any leftover bits would be. It's a very subjective thing, this. Any odd little elliptical-pointy shreds that I cannot reuse just set off some kind of alarm in my head. The sleeve cut isn't completely identical, obviously, as I learned it from a lady named Melisande in 1996, and not from your article. What is similar is the general shape (a boat-shape, though I did not curve the bottom of my cuff) and the back curve from a narrower sleeve to a wide cuff being cut into the sleeve, rather than peiced in. What's mostly different is the scale, as my blue gown's sleeves are cut as a Very Large exaggerated bell that goes into a boat-shaped cuff, where your diagrammed sleeves are somewhat more conservative in size. The blue gown's sleeves are actually large enough that I could successfully recut them to a gusseted curve from what cloth is there, if I wanted to. I may do so, actually. i'll just feel better aobut wearing it. > BTW, the sleeves with the pendant cuffs are pieced, mid-arm. So are mine :) I think that's just costume-common-sense. Mine have a strip of trimming over the seam. > The reason I came up with the method I use, as the article explains, is > that I believe that the sleeve shape with the narrow hanging cuffs > developed out of the offcut of the body pieces, as the body cutting > changed to be more fitted. I also like the fact that the entire dress, > using that method, can be cut without any measuring or marking tools, > numeric calculations, or patterns. I can certainly make a slightly more > economical cut, but it requires having a pattern. (Theoretically, after > the original dress is done, a second could be made with a different cut, > using the sleeve shape from the first as a template, though I don't think > the gain is significant.) This is exactly how I cut all of my gowns, though I don't assume a specific loom-width to start with - I usually cut my cloth just about in half, which happens to equate to about half of my high hip measure. It's very intuitive, but particularly hard to explain to people without being in the same room with them. I cut the body, cut the gores, and the leftovers are used to make the sleeves. The main difference between your method and mine is that I piece in the curve below the arm with a square gusset, rather than cutting a curve into the sleeve shape. That works quite nicely when doing it "by eye and arm" rather than with a measuring tape and some graphpaper. The size of the long cuff and square gore is really dictated by the amount of fabric left after cutting the skirt gores. There's some archeological evidence for this method (but without a pendant cuff), in Cristina Frieder Waugh's article _Well Cut Through the Body_ that was published in Dress a few years ago (That's also in storage, apparently). I cut my pendant cuffs as rectangles, my sleeves as rectangles, and piece in the curve with a square gusset to form the curve. It works nicely, without any stiffenss along the curve, such as a seam may cause. That stiffness, from a seam on the bias, plus the fact that a shaped pattern piece (even if one is not using a pattern) is counter to the idea of rectangular construction, are the factors that make me uncomfortable with using that method. > I will confess that I didn't spend a lot of time looking for variants to > achieve the trumpet-shape. My interest was on the "why" regarding the > weird and counterintuitive narrow cuff fashion, which turned out to be > concurrent with the body changes -- something I don't think was > coincidental. I included the trumpet-sleeve version in the article as a > starting point, to illustrate the contrast that occurred with the later, > stranger cut. This bit, I'd HAVE to have your article in front of me, unfortunately to answer. I remember thinking that I agreed with everything in the article *except* how the boat-shaped sleeves were cut. It may just be a matter of opinion, which means we either argue until we are blue in the face, or we can agree to disagree, since we have come to different conclusions based on very similar lines of research. Subjective is subjective :) Some of those narrow cuffs, BTW, may not actually have been narrow. One of the ladies at Chartres with what appear to be narrow pendant cuffs actually has fine vertical pleats carved on her cuffs, which would seem indicate that it's a wider rectangle that's been pleated into a narrow shape... Norman High Fashion is as capricious as modern Haute Couture, it would seem. Thanks for the reply, BTW. M. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 17:44:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25MiYSd024373 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:44:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25Mi5cP026565; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:44:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25Mi0Ea021651; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:44:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25MhwEb021607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:43:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i25Mgu7j013258 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:42:56 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 17:42:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <404902AE.1030301@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 17:43:58 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks References: <200403052146.i25Lku1S008025@jefferson.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <200403052146.i25Lku1S008025@jefferson.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: >>For what it's worth, BTW, snarking is not a phenomenon confined to >>costuming. > It's definitly part of being human! Yeah. We all like feeling superior to some other subset of humanity. Good manners means we try and keep it in check, and at least not in public! I know I fail, sometimes, but I can't imagine anyone I know pouncing upon someone and offering unsolicited commentary. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Vote early, vote often! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 18:47:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25NlfSd024685 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:47:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25NklcP005118; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:46:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25Nkdtb065970; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:46:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25NkXtb065816 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:46:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.11b.2eea9f52 (4592) for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:46:20 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <11b.2eea9f52.2d7a6b4c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:46:20 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/5/2004 3:48:34 PM Central Standard Time, aquazoo@patriot.net writes: And yes, some people really would rather have a new garment every event made from cheap fabric rather than saving up for one really correct outfit. And then there's the ones like me, who want a really expensive brand new outfit for every event. This is why I learned to sew in the first place LOL - and I STILL can't seem to make my budget match my clotheshorsing! -Tiff _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 18:51:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25NpBSd024700 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:51:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25NoWcP005647; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:50:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25NoTtb068814; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:50:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i25NoOtb068722 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:50:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.230]) by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (v93.12) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-44049123362; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:50:11 -0500 Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.15a.2f379c31 (4592) for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:44:59 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <15a.2f379c31.2d7a6afb@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:44:59 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/5/2004 2:59:41 PM Central Standard Time, claning@igc.org writes: To me it also seems that "group snarking" is more likely to go in that direction, and I've been in enough such situations to know that _that_ kind of discussion only tends to get worse, and to have bad effects on people's attitudes in the long run. How very true! I've been guilty of it as well and have consciously tried to stop this habit. But honestly, when you see the woman wandering around the 1533 renaissance faire wearing a chain mail bikini (and more often than not, there are rolls hanging out every edge of said bikini), it can be VERY difficult to keep that resolution!!! I will say this: I think that for *most* of us, what comments we make on garb tend to be more about the blatant, glaring, or wilfully ignorant errors - meaning, people who either didn't spend any time or effort on what they're wearing at all, or just can't be bothered to try to get it right. If I see someone who very obviously gave it their best shot for their current knowledge, then I can be a lot more charitable about the stuffed mushroom that they seem to be wearing on their head. What really brings out my snarky side are things like lame', fringe, too much skin covered by FAR too little fabric, and the teenagers in all-black "garb" wandering the lanes as though there really were a bunch of vampires roaming freely about Medieval England. -Tiff _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 19:36:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i260a8Sd024863 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 19:36:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i260ZJcP011610; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:35:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i260ZGtb098695; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:35:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i260ZAtb098627 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:35:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16699 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:05:43 -0600 Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:05:42 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4048FC6C.9050400@verizon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Norman sleeves (was: My personal favorite critique ROFL) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Maura Folsom wrote: > (Actually, I am referring to the boat-shaped sleeve. I think the > trumpet-shape was probably done with gores, set in on seams or cuts in > the cloth, like a tunic's skirt is constructed.) I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing, then. I wouldn't necessarily use "boat-shaped" to describe the sleeve shape I was analyzing. But then again, I'm not sure what "boat-shaped" means for a sleeve. I think you might want to reserve judgment on comparing methods till you can get your hands on my article again. The cuff pieces in my method are essentially the offcuts of the body, trimmed slightly to round/smooth out the edges. Not terribly wasteful, no more than other trimming/rounding/smoothing that's seen on other garments of roughly this period. And, given that the pieces do begin as geometrics, it's not counter to "rectangular construction" (which means that the pieces are originally cut geometrically, but can involve some shaping to the pieces after that cutting). The same type of shaping is done in this period at the sides of the torso, for instance, particularly as side-lacing to narrow the waist was introduced -- yet that's still fundamentally a geometric cut. > The sleeve cut isn't completely identical, obviously, as I learned it > from a lady named Melisande in 1996, and not from your article. What > is similar is the general shape (a boat-shape, though I did not curve > the bottom of my cuff) and the back curve from a narrower sleeve to a > wide cuff being cut into the sleeve, rather than peiced in. What's > mostly different is the scale, as my blue gown's sleeves are cut as a > Very Large exaggerated bell that goes into a boat-shaped cuff, where > your diagrammed sleeves are somewhat more conservative in size. Hmm. I think you'll want to read the article (not just look at the diagram) to follow my logic, which relates the changing proportions of the sleeve to the changing proportions in the body. As the body pieces changed shape, the offcuts changed shape, and the new sleeve shape emerged. However, I don't think this approach would generate a cuff on a bell sleeve, and thus what you call a difference in "scale" is actually pretty fundamental difference in approach. (Also, fabric width is a crucial issue here, because it affects the angles of the body gores, which in turn affects the angles of the offcuts.) That's not to say that your approach wouldn't be logical as well, but it does sound like you're coming up with something quite different from what I was focusing on, and so the method of getting there would necessarily differ. > The main difference between your method and mine is that I piece in > the curve below the arm with a square gusset, rather than cutting a > curve into the sleeve shape. I am intrigued by your mention of a square gusset. My method does have a square underarm gusset (actually, a double triangle, which I find both strong and flexible), but I'm guessing you mean a gusset facing the other way, to create an expansion in the sleeve as you approach the cuff? A square guesset seems a logical way to create such an expansion, but this does tell me that you're almost certainly dealing with a different sleeve shape, as mine does not do that -- it's a reasonably straight sleeve that drops suddenly into a long cuff as it nears the wrist. Here's one image of such a sleeve; there are many others in art, but I don't know if they're online. This is from the Bayeux Tapestry. Look at the small lady in the building in the center of the panel: http://www.hastings1066.com/pics/tap24.jpg ...and note the sudden drop-off of cuff from the straight sleeve. That's what I was working on. Looking only at my cutting diagram, you might get a different impression of the shape, because the cuff piece is cut to a double width, to be folded back. It looks much fatter laid out flat than it does in wear. This may have left you with the impression that it was a "boat-shaped" sleeve. The expansion into the cuff begins midway on the forearm. Once the cuff is folded back, it pretty much hides the junction of sleeve into cuff, creating the image of a straight sleeve with long perpendicular cuff. There's a photo of the dress in wear that shows this more clearly, with the article. (For those who have seen me lecture: This is the blue dress I use as an example of "pre-fitted" fashion in my Gothic Fitted Dress talk.) > > BTW, the sleeves with the pendant cuffs are pieced, mid-arm. > > So are mine :) I think that's just costume-common-sense. Mine have a > strip of trimming over the seam. I only mentioned it because your first message indicated that you thought mine were not. However, from your picture, I'm guessing yours are pieced over the bicep. Mine are pieced much further down, around the elbow, maybe lower. The cuff expansion begins below that. (BTW, to digress, have you found much evidence for an upper-arm trim band in this period in English or French art? I feel as though I've seen it, but when I go to look for it, I never find it. I wonder if I picked up the idea from some Victorian costume book. I'd be relieved to know it's out there, on someone who isn't a saint, queen, or allegorical figure.) > The size of the long cuff and square gore is really dictated by the > amount of fabric left after cutting the skirt gores. That's as it should be. ;-) You may well have a perfectly logical method to produce a different sleeve shape from the one I addressed in my article. > There's some archeological evidence for this method (but without a > pendant cuff), in Cristina Frieder Waugh's article _Well Cut Through > the Body_ that was published in Dress a few years ago (That's also in > storage, apparently). Bleah. I thought I could put my hands right on my copy, but it is evidently off having a beer with yours, or something. > I cut my pendant cuffs as rectangles, my sleeves as rectangles, and > piece in the curve with a square gusset to form the curve. It works > nicely, without any stiffenss along the curve, such as a seam may > cause. That stiffness, from a seam on the bias, plus the fact that a > shaped pattern piece (even if one is not using a pattern) is counter > to the idea of rectangular construction, are the factors that make me > uncomfortable with using that method. I think if you look closer at what I wrote, you'll find these are not issues after all. Essentially, my sleeves are rectangles, my pendant cuffs are geometric offcuts from the gores, and the "curve" where you have a gusset is nonexistent on mine. I only put some shaping into the offcut to smooth out the abrupt shift from sleeve to cuff. I could use a gusset to do that, but if I did, it would be no larger than the underarm gusset, that's how minimal the "curve" is. (I might play around and see if a gusset-based construction presents itself. The construction I'm using originally popped out at me because of the shape of the offcut when I cut a close-bodied tunic; I didn't have to do much fooling with it to produce the cuff -- it was a question of "take the leftover piece and stick it on the end of the sleeve." And that's why I suspect it may have happened the same way in the period, to produce the idea of the long hanging cuff where none had ever existed before. However, if you already have in your head that you're aiming for a long hanging cuff, you might go at it differently.) The other bit of shaping I do is to round off the point at the bottom. I note in the article that if there is enough material for underarm gussets from other trimmings, that the rounding can be done quite low, with only a shred of waste; if not, you nip off the bottom to use as underarm gussets, and end up with a shorter, broader cuff. Both variants -- long and almost pointy, short and squarish -- appear in the artwork. > Some of those narrow cuffs, BTW, may not actually have been narrow. > One of the ladies at Chartres with what appear to be narrow pendant > cuffs actually has fine vertical pleats carved on her cuffs, which > would seem indicate that it's a wider rectangle that's been pleated > into a narrow shape... Norman High Fashion is as capricious as modern > Haute Couture, it would seem. There are a lot of sleeve variations (and body variations) in the Chartres sculptures, many of which apparently no parallel in other media. THe specific development I was addressing was the sudden emergence of the hitherto unseen narrow hanging cuff, around the end of the 11th century. I would expect other, later developments to represent further changes in cutting technique. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 23:04:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2644LSd025784 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:04:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2643ScP022341; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:03:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2643Jtb090699; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:03:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2643Htb090685 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:03:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F07131D4D8 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:03:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t3p207.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.220.209]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 50F30D430 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:02:30 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garb Snarks Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:02:36 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <20040305153957.52333.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh my. Had a visual of an Elisabeth. Main fabric a gingerbread color with white and pink piping all over. Gumdrop coloured buttons with crystal beads sewn on top to simulate sugar. black freshwater pearls for bead strands that look like raisins, and a peppermint swirl drop for the fob. and licorice looking ties. This can be applied to Landsknecht with a peppermint swirl drop for the hat. De wrote: _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 23:33:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i264XPSd025890 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:33:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i264WmcP023721; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:32:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i264Wltb002381; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:32:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i264Wetb002352 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:32:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B83FD1D276 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:32:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t3p207.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.220.209]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 80FDCD4B0 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:32:39 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:32:45 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <15a.2f379c31.2d7a6afb@aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh yes the "I am period, I'm Gothic and vampires are period because of Vlad (sp?){the impaler} was a vampire and everyone wore black because they couldn't afford colors in that area." This honestly came from a white/bleached blond, raccoon eyed young woman (18?)wearing a Morticia Addams style dress with a studded collar, and blood red lipstick. Of coarse I wasn't the one to point out her discrepancies in attire for pre 1600s. My friend did. I usually don't at renfares. As for the women in chain mail bikinis that are not in shape to wear them. These women (and men) who wear so little who should wear so much. I am happy for them that they can be comfortable with their bodies that they have no problems showing it off in public. I apply the channel rule, If I don't like it I don't have to watch. But sometimes there are those moments that mesmerize you and you can't turn away cause you can't believe what your looking at. De -----Original Message----- How very true! I've been guilty of it as well and have consciously tried to stop this habit. But honestly, when you see the woman wandering around the 1533 renaissance faire wearing a chain mail bikini (and more often than not, there are rolls hanging out every edge of said bikini), it can be VERY difficult to keep that resolution!!! teenagers in all-black "garb" wandering the lanes as though there really were a bunch of vampires roaming freely about Medieval England. -Tiff ________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 23:38:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i264cdSd025929 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:38:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i264bxcP023914; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:37:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i264bwtb004426; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:37:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i264botb004351 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:37:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce ([64.0.176.13]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:37:54 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garb Snarks Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:37:58 -0600 Message-ID: <001c01c40334$cd412d80$0db00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Mar 2004 04:37:54.0113 (UTC) FILETIME=[CA577B10:01C40334] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That is _so_ evil -!! Can I be you in my next life? Pyro -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of otsisto Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:03 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garb Snarks Oh my. Had a visual of an Elisabeth. Main fabric a gingerbread color with white and pink piping all over. Gumdrop coloured buttons with crystal beads sewn on top to simulate sugar. black freshwater pearls for bead strands that look like raisins, and a peppermint swirl drop for the fob. and licorice looking ties. This can be applied to Landsknecht with a peppermint swirl drop for the hat. De wrote: _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 5 23:53:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i264rXSd026002 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:53:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i264qtcP024492; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:52:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i264qrtb010398; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:52:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i264qmtb010382 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:52:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DDDA1D4D0 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:52:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t3p207.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.220.209]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id F1BCED3EE for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:52:46 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:52:53 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh wow, does she have documentation for Valley elves? :) When I had the time I went to Powwows. I had a woman come up to me one time and she started telling what was wrong with my dance outfit. After 5 minutes of her railing on me about how my outfit was not a proper Cherokee dress, I informed her that it wasn't a Traditional Cherokee dress, its patterned after an 1800s Mohawk outfit. She then said in a small voice "oh" pursed her lips and stomped away. De -----Original Message----- Years ago in California there was a Fantasy Faire (maybe it still happens I don't know). I was reading a review of the first one in the L.A. Times and they interviewed one of the participants. I will have to paraphrase as it was years ago, but she said something like." I am a 13th century Elf, this is a dirk, that's the sort of knife that elves carried in the 13th century". I always wondered where she got her documentation! Cheers, Ron _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 00:13:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i265DkSd026201 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 00:13:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i265D3cP025516; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i265D0tb018700; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:13:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i265Cutb018677 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:12:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 620851D000 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:12:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t3p207.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.220.209]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 59E4DD3EE for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:12:55 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:13:01 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Way back when, in the early 80's a common misconception was that trousers did not exist and there was not such thing as belt loops. This was what was being taught in our shire and elsewhere. I happened to be at one of the shire's costume intro, the woman speaking was taking a little info and running 50 miles with it. Sadly I let some personal feelings motivate me to speak after the presentation instead of taking her aside and telling her about several things she said that were not period and were. I find that many of the people who snark tend to have knowledge of only one area of Europe. For example on AIPON some people were applying English style to a Portuguese outfit. You know, thinking through the past I come to realize that I may have been the first person in my section of the kingdom to have made a bliaut and Italian ren. As I made both of these in '82 while everyone wore standard t tunics. Oh well enough reminiscing. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 00:23:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i265NhSd026312 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 00:23:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i265N6cP026071; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:23:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i265N2tb022954; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:23:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i265N1tb022933 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:23:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ACBF1D47C for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:23:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t3p207.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.220.209]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D1B8BD3EE for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:22:58 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Silliness: was - Garb Snarks Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:23:05 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040305102908.00bbbd88@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maybe a partlet with a bright pink collar with rhinestones or crystal beads. And a black fuzzy hat with pink bows on each side along the hat band. Maybe the chain could be the belt that has the long extension down the front and connect to the poodle. De -----Original Message----- Some of these ideas are great- I must admit that I have one in the works... based on my nickname of "Poodle Lady"... Elizabethan in black with a screaming pink forepart... and on the forepart a silver chain running down to a black appliqued poodle. Think 1950s poodle skirt, gone 1550s... And that's it. Bridgette. >Oooh. That's evil. I might have to steal it! >I've got two "fun" outfits in the planning stages. One is a fitted gown >and surcoat combination--Teddy's fault, as he was the one who challenged >me to actually *do* something from pink and orange. The fitted gown is >fuschia-pink worsted wool (with a matching pink linen lining), and the >surcoat is tangerine-orange velvet. I should look like a large sunrise in >it! I'll wear it on Saturday mornings at SCA camping events as a >"hangover revenge" outfit, since I don't stay up late and party... >I'm also known as a "stealth laurel" (old, long in-joke), and I've been >threatening for years to show up at some future peer-laden event or >meeting dressed in Camo Elizabethan, but I heard that's been done. So >I've been thinking, maybe Urban Camo? Inexpensive twill fabric that I >could paint and distress and add things like possible 16th c. graffiti to? >--sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 01:13:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i266D0Sd026526 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 01:13:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i266CGcP028239; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:12:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i266CDtb042931; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:12:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i266CDtb042917 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:12:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E2E41D2A3 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 00:12:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t3p207.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.220.209]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6C499D419 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 00:12:11 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 00:12:17 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20040305132710.0578ad98@earthlink.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Off Kilter Was (RE: Ouch! BAD memories!) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- Oh lets one up this. At festival there were several men walking around (like peacocks) pretending to be Scots. All of them were wearing plaid of various fabric and print (no wool) but the design and pleating looked like it was from a Catholic school girl's skirt pattern. One of the "kilts" was a Catholic uniform skirt. Sadly, these men thought they were actually wearing kilts >...So I try to stay within the bounds of reason, and just have fun. If >people have a problem with it they can go discuss it with the guy in the >plaid flannel kilt. Cripes -- I've seen that guy! Well, a similarly-dressed guy. <*shudders*> One of the folk who, for a while, was hanging out with the rennies in our STAR TREK club. First time I met him, he was bragging about his supposed experience fitting young women's corsets, embellishing his description with... I'd call them obscene gestures, except that he was *performing* the acts he was describing. <*shudder*> At least he kept his hands on himself <*shudder*> The first faire after that we went to, he wore a cotton flannelette "kilt"; it was beyond laughable (especially compared to the fellow he was trying to imitate)... I really did *not* need those images popping back into my brain, *thank* you! Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 02:35:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i267ZBSd018329 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 02:35:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i267YRcP001383; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 00:34:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i267YItb075891; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 00:34:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i267YFtb075862 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 00:34:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sarah@modehistorique.com) Received: from unknown (HELO modehistorique.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@68.123.111.152 with plain) by smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2004 07:34:14 -0000 Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:34:04 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off Kilter Was (RE: Ouch! BAD memories!) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > -----Original Message----- > Oh lets one up this. > At festival there were several men walking around (like peacocks) > pretending > to be Scots. All of them were wearing plaid of various fabric and > print (no > wool) but the design and pleating looked like it was from a Catholic > school > girl's skirt pattern. One of the "kilts" was a Catholic uniform skirt. > Sadly, these men thought they were actually wearing kilts > >> ...So I try to stay within the bounds of reason, and just have fun. >> If >> people have a problem with it they can go discuss it with the guy in >> the >> plaid flannel kilt. Ugh. That's *exactly* a description of my ex-boyfriend and his friends. I'd try every thing in my arsenal to get them into even something vaguely more period than a badly wrapped plaid flannel sheet at SCA events, but every attempt was met with such enlightened rebukes like "That's gay. I'm not wearing that. I don't want to look stupid." So says the guy in the cheesy skirt. Sarah http://www.modehistorique.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 04:27:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i269RnSd021056 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 04:27:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i269R9cP004750; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 02:27:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i269R4tb021428; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 02:27:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i269R1tb021404 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 02:27:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5277A1D4E5 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 03:27:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p036.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.38]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0AA92D432 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 03:27:00 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 03:27:07 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have noticed though that a man in a late period outfit is usually considered: A. Gay B. Married C. Going to be married D. Momma sewed it. B & C reasoning is that no woman would go to all that trouble to make a late period garment for a man unless she's got him hook, line and sinker. Many men don't consider late period noblemen outfits to be manly, nor do they consider the outfits to be "babe" magnets. This type of thinking is usually found more among the younger men then the older more secure men. De -----Original Message----- Ugh. That's *exactly* a description of my ex-boyfriend and his friends. I'd try every thing in my arsenal to get them into even something vaguely more period than a badly wrapped plaid flannel sheet at SCA events, but every attempt was met with such enlightened rebukes like "That's gay. I'm not wearing that. I don't want to look stupid." So says the guy in the cheesy skirt. Sarah http://www.modehistorique.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 04:44:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i269iRSd021112 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 04:44:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i269hacP005272; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 02:43:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i269hXtb027880; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 02:43:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i269hVtb027861 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 02:43:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sarah@modehistorique.com) Received: from unknown (HELO modehistorique.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@68.123.111.152 with plain) by smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2004 09:43:31 -0000 Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 01:43:21 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I always said that if Mel Gibson had done a period movie set in the 16th century, wearing the hose and pumpkin pants with a codpiece, that 95% of the male population between the ages of 16 and 35 would have decided it was "manly" and rather than seeing a bunch of kilts at SCA events, you'd see a lot of late period personas. I kept trying to convince my ex that his ancestors must have had no problem finding dates while wearing slops, because he was here 500 years later. Didn't phase him. He still vehemently refused to wear anything other than the "great" kilt. Tried to convince him that medieval Irish (which he claimed was his persona) didn't wear kilts. Again, it was like talking to a brick wall. Finally, I gave up and dumped him. I know it sounds harsh, but I want a guy who is not afraid of tights! ;) No, seriously, the relationship ended for other reasons, but that's still a major sore spot for me to this day. I have very low tolerance for men in kilts as a result... Unless, of course, we're talking about Jacobian reenactors. *Rowr* ;) Sarah http://www.modehistorique.com On Saturday, March 6, 2004, at 01:27 AM, otsisto wrote: > I have noticed though that a man in a late period outfit is usually > considered: > A. Gay > B. Married > C. Going to be married > D. Momma sewed it. > > B & C reasoning is that no woman would go to all that trouble to make > a late > period garment for a man unless she's got him hook, line and sinker. > Many men don't consider late period noblemen outfits to be manly, nor > do > they consider the outfits to be "babe" magnets. This type of thinking > is > usually found more among the younger men then the older more secure > men. > > De > > -----Original Message----- > > Ugh. That's *exactly* a description of my ex-boyfriend and his > friends. I'd try every thing in my arsenal to get them into even > something vaguely more period than a badly wrapped plaid flannel sheet > at SCA events, but every attempt was met with such enlightened rebukes > like "That's gay. I'm not wearing that. I don't want to look stupid." > > So says the guy in the cheesy skirt. > > Sarah > http://www.modehistorique.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 06:18:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26BIOSd021344 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 06:18:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26BHncP009047; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 04:17:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26BHftb066807; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 04:17:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26BHctc066777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 04:17:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i26BGc7j017367 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 06:16:39 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 06 Mar 2004 06:16:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4049B355.7010101@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 06:17:41 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sarah wrote: > I always said that if Mel Gibson had done a period movie set in the 16th > century, wearing the hose and pumpkin pants with a codpiece, that 95% of > the male population between the ages of 16 and 35 would have decided it > was "manly" I had a .sig line for a while after Star Wars Ep I came out: "Darth Maul: Proof that men in skirts can be very butch." -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 06:33:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26BXLSd021415 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 06:33:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26BWhcP009419; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 04:32:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26BWetb072302; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 04:32:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26BWctb072271 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 04:32:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37D441BF350 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 06:32:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 09072-03 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 06:32:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 379F61BF351 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 06:32:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0a5601c4036e$b8c8f4c0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 06:32:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > B & C reasoning is that no woman would go to all that trouble to make a late > period garment for a man unless she's got him hook, line and sinker. > Many men don't consider late period noblemen outfits to be manly, nor do > they consider the outfits to be "babe" magnets. This type of thinking is > usually found more among the younger men then the older more secure men. > > De And the sad part is, a man in well fitting tights IS a babe magnet. What, do they think we don't look at butts? I saw a fellow at an event last year who looked like he had stepped out of an Italian Renaissance painting. It's actually one of my favorite event memories--it was early on a misty morning, and I was coming down from my cabin with the kids for breakfast, and there stood this perfectly dressed man, in front of a gorgeous pavilion. Juggling oranges. Just for a minute, I felt truly transported. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 08:01:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26D1jSd021728 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:01:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26D14cP012099; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 06:01:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26D11tb005480; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 06:01:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26D0utb005462 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 06:00:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i26Cp3E17653 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 04:51:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AzbGd-0002el-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 06 Mar 2004 04:50:59 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 05:51:25 -0700 Message-ID: <002b01c40379$bc561220$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <0a5601c4036e$b8c8f4c0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i26D0utb005462 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I second Dianne's sentiments, and love the image. There are a few people that truly just have the 'look'. (Some without clothes!). And for those of us who do look at butts (but calves too!) tights are the way to go! Sg > And the sad part is, a man in well fitting tights IS a babe magnet. What, do > they think we don't look at butts? I saw a fellow at an event last year who > looked like he had stepped out of an Italian Renaissance painting. It's > actually one of my favorite event memories--it was early on a misty morning, > and I was coming down from my cabin with the kids for breakfast, and there > stood this perfectly dressed man, in front of a gorgeous pavilion. Juggling > oranges. Just for a minute, I felt truly transported. > > Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 09:40:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26EeFSd022127 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 09:40:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26EdYcP014840; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 07:39:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26EdQtb044370; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 07:39:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26EdPtb044345 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 07:39:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-134-64.client.comcast.net[24.1.134.64]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004030614391901600gomafe>; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:39:20 +0000 Message-ID: <006501c40388$d0397ac0$40860118@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:37:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You left out ... E. Or Monarch of some group and someone one wants to show off their work ... for free! :) Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 3:27 AM Subject: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) : I have noticed though that a man in a late period outfit is usually : considered: : A. Gay : B. Married : C. Going to be married : D. Momma sewed it. : : B & C reasoning is that no woman would go to all that trouble to make a late : period garment for a man unless she's got him hook, line and sinker. : Many men don't consider late period noblemen outfits to be manly, nor do : they consider the outfits to be "babe" magnets. This type of thinking is : usually found more among the younger men then the older more secure men. : : De : : -----Original Message----- : : Ugh. That's *exactly* a description of my ex-boyfriend and his : friends. I'd try every thing in my arsenal to get them into even : something vaguely more period than a badly wrapped plaid flannel sheet : at SCA events, but every attempt was met with such enlightened rebukes : like "That's gay. I'm not wearing that. I don't want to look stupid." : : So says the guy in the cheesy skirt. : : Sarah : http://www.modehistorique.com : : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume : : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 10:17:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26FHeSd022378 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:17:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26FH3cP016508; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:17:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26FH1tb059737; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:17:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26FGvtb059711 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:16:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a226.in-tch.com [66.62.107.26]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i26EsAs15982 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 07:54:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4049EC2C.9080606@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 08:20:12 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 149 References: <200403041756.i24HuNKl058840@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm going to make (this summer) a hood from LoTR fellowship fabric. Well, it'll actually be a pattern *similar* to the Real Thing, which I definitely cannot afford. I don't have a big enough loom for cloak fabric. It's only a 24" table loom, and yeah, I suppose, technically, I could weave enough fabric on it for a cloak, but *my gawd* the warp would be long! --sue, who also wants a smocked hobbit shirt.... fastusminimus wrote: > Life is just full o surprises! Next biiiig project will probably be a > hand spun/woven cloak or coat of LOTR Fellowship style cloth---so tell > me it's not *authentic* Elf re-enacting can be very relaxing! > Especially when taking a break from tryin to fit a corset by oneself _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 10:32:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26FWUSd022450 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:32:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26FVscP017370; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:31:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26FVotb066144; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:31:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9405.mail.yahoo.com (web9405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i26FVmtb066123 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:31:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040306153148.66304.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 06 Mar 2004 07:31:48 PST Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 07:31:48 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: RE: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002b01c40379$bc561220$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was very lucky--at least for little while:) When my 'then soon to be husband' said he'd be willing to 'try' comeing to SCA events with me ---I put a costumne book in front of him --and flipped thru a lot a different time periods. Which one, I asked , did he feel most comfortable with?To my utter amazement , this rather shy, Dutch transplant to the US pointed out an Italian Ren outfirt --complete with tights--in bright red and gold, no less. So, that is EXACTLY what he got---and being the 6 ' 1" triathelete that he is, he MOST CERTAINLY has the bunns for this. It was amusing to watch all my friends --as well as complete strangers--both male and female-- openly drool and walk into walls looking at him. *Sigh* I guess the fact that a lot of triatheletes wear 'tight's anyway to work out in--totally diffused the issue of it being 'manly ' :) It was a pity, when , 5 years later, he decided that the SCA was just a little bit 'too time intensive for him '--and was cutting into his training workouts too much:( So, he put away his gorgeous Italian clothes--although , I still get to see him, in tights periodically:) (evil grin) Albra "Saragrace T. Knauf" wrote: I second Dianne's sentiments, and love the image. There are a few people that truly just have the 'look'. (Some without clothes!). And for those of us who do look at butts (but calves too!) tights are the way to go! Sg > And the sad part is, a man in well fitting tights IS a babe magnet. What, do > they think we don't look at butts? I saw a fellow at an event last year who > looked like he had stepped out of an Italian Renaissance painting. It's > actually one of my favorite event memories--it was early on a misty morning, > and I was coming down from my cabin with the kids for breakfast, and there > stood this perfectly dressed man, in front of a gorgeous pavilion. Juggling > oranges. Just for a minute, I felt truly transported. > > Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 10:36:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26FaZSd022466 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:36:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26FZwcP017526; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:35:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26FZvtb067843; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:35:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26FZqtb067824 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:35:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a226.in-tch.com [66.62.107.26]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i26FD6s22409 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:13:06 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4049F09C.9050504@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 08:39:08 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks References: <20040305153957.52333.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040305153957.52333.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It'd work better if done in marzipan! --sue, having her own mental parade of having "prizes" to hand out to snarks--make little gingerbread people dressed in marzipan clothing, which could be given out with a sweetly-voiced statement about hoping the treat improves someone's attitude..... KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote: > Is that like little cookies made into clothing shapes?? > Albra > (getting these funny little visuals of gingerbread elizabetheans doublets ---and choking tea all over her keyboard!) > > Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, otsisto wrote: > > >>I actually invisioned when you said that was, flannel plaid made into >>norse garb and carrying axes, with a sign that says "I'm a lumberjack >>and I'm OK.... > > > I sympathize. Every time I see this subject line, my brain reads it as > "Garb Snacks." > > >>Ah where the mind will go when on pain killers. > > > Or cough medicine. > > --Robin, coughing > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 10:37:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26FbuSd022484 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:37:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26FbGcP017600; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:37:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26FbFtb068413; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:37:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26FaZtb068102 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:36:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a226.in-tch.com [66.62.107.26]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i26FDms22682 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:13:49 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4049F0C6.5000903@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 08:39:50 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks References: <404894C8.7020906@in-tch.com> <011a01c402cb$62086330$bd943a41@HELENPINTO> In-Reply-To: <011a01c402cb$62086330$bd943a41@HELENPINTO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Where did you put all that piping? --sue/maire Helen Pinto wrote: > Sue wrote: > I've been > >>threatening for years to show up at some future peer-laden event or >>meeting dressed in Camo Elizabethan, but I heard that's been done. > > > Guilty as charged, but that was a long time ago- early 80's. Nearly 50 yds > of black piping went on it, too. > -Helen/Aidan > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 10:50:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26FoJSd022539 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:50:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26FnDcP018138; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:49:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26FnAtb073497; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:49:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12501.mail.yahoo.com (web12501.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.193]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i26Fn5tb073479 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:49:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sorepaws@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040306154905.16849.qmail@web12501.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.43.239.90] by web12501.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 06 Mar 2004 07:49:05 PST Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 07:49:05 -0800 (PST) From: Lil Sorepaws To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200403061301.i26D1ctd005739@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: Butting In .. (was Real men don't wear tights) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not sure if they still hold it, but MIRF used to have a "men in tights" contest that was truely droolworthy. A man wearing a nice set of tights (preferably NOT exercise or nylon biking tights that are half sheer and leave nothing to the imagination .. pardon the vulgarity but I would rather not be able to accurately estimate someone's ability to father children just by glancing at the front of his tights ;) and a doublet or even a well constructed shirt is to me far more sexy than some guy wearing a plaid sheet bundled at his waist with his fishbelly white potbelly hanging over the beltbuckle. (*thinks of her ex Bill and cackles at the memory*) Maybe I'm odd (*GRIN*) but one of my pet peeves with guys in tights is when they match those with short "shoes" or boots as opposed to knee of thigh boots. To me the ankles just look FUNNY in slippers or fitted short boots - giving their legs an almost drumstick effect. My boytoy wears a kilt with those fitted short boots (at least its an authentic kilt ... *sigh*) and I keep trying to get him into something sexier ... I even bought him NICE knee high cavalier boots and some very "pettable" tights (he has the buns for em - he just thinks tights are for sissies - LOL .. maybe PINK VELVET tights (thinking the fops at Faire ..) but a nicely shaped man in tights who has the tush for it ..... Now I know shoes were far more period than boots if we are to judge from the portraits etc.. but give me a man in manly boots any day .. ooh ;) - Lil (someone hand me a kerchief please? I'm drooling ;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 10:59:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26FxtSd022590 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:59:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26FxGcP018605; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:59:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26FxDtb077783; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:59:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26FxBtb077764 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:59:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a226.in-tch.com [66.62.107.26]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i26FaOs00382 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:36:25 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4049F612.4080409@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 09:02:26 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re:Norman gown was [h-cost] My personal favorite critique ROFL References: <200403041756.i24HuNKk058840@net.indra.com> <40477637.7090309@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <40477637.7090309@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, I like that one (the gown, that is!) One of your commentors mentions your website, but it's not in your sig line??? I'm asking because my local SCA group wants to do a workshop on Norman belts, and having some ideas, etc. on clothing to go with would be nice! --sue Maura Folsom wrote: > Mine is from one of my entries > http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=16 : > "If you're a Norman, why viking dress?" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 13:52:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26IqqSd023828 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:52:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26Iq5cP026602; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 11:52:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26Ipvtb055257; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 11:51:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26Ipttb055237 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 11:51:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net (firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i26I44Z08104 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:04:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-64.158.113.143.dial1.pittsburgh1.level3.net ([64.158.113.143] helo=HELENPINTO) by firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Azg9a-0004D3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 06 Mar 2004 10:04:03 -0800 Message-ID: <00c701c403a5$669f4e60$8f719e40@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <404894C8.7020906@in-tch.com><011a01c402cb$62086330$bd943a41@HELENPINTO> <4049F0C6.5000903@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:03:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9efb5586c5b716d1b656465e2518373ca60350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Where did you put all that piping? > --sue/maire > I shouldn't have called it piping- it was actually a 3/16" flat black braid. It was applied near the edges of all the tabs on the peplum and the epaulets and in a pattern following the seams and edges of the bodice. More than half went into bands on the skirt. If you're going to use the camo, you might as well just go all the way. It was just another one of those projects that got out of hand. On the other hand, it was fun to watch the heads snap out on the road. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 14:31:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26JVNSd024023 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:31:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26JUccP028571; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:30:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26JUZtb074398; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:30:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wapgw.hccnet.nl (wapgw.hccnet.nl [62.251.0.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26JUWtb074365 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:30:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Gelfling@dds.nl) Received: from smtp.hccnet.nl by wapgw.hccnet.nl via smtp.hccnet.nl [62.251.0.13] with ESMTP for id i26JUPmm011020 (8.12.10/1.200); Sat, 6 Mar 2004 20:30:25 +0100 (MET) Received: from Gelfling.dds.nl by smtp.hccnet.nl via fia19-74-100.dsl.hccnet.nl [80.100.74.19] with ESMTP for id i26JUNEe015234 (8.12.10/2.00); Sat, 6 Mar 2004 20:30:24 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20040306202621.00bb9930@pop.dds.nl> X-Sender: Gelfling@pop.dds.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:30:26 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Esther Stouten In-Reply-To: <200403061900.i26J0ote059368@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Woman's viking kaftan X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, Does anyone know where I can find more info on the woman's viking kaftan? I have a vikingweekend coming up around easter, and as it is still very cold here I would like to wear something over my tunic and apron dress. Esther Stouten aka lady Morwenna of Morwenstow _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 14:31:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26JVlSd024029 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:31:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26JVBcP028606; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:31:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26JV9tb074690; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:31:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts12.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26JUstb074489 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:30:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.70.4.36]) by simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040306190435.RXRK22720.simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:04:35 -0500 Message-ID: <002701c403ae$56870aa0$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <404894C8.7020906@in-tch.com><011a01c402cb$62086330$bd943a41@HELENPINTO><4049F0C6.5000903@in-tch.com> <00c701c403a5$669f4e60$8f719e40@HELENPINTO> Subject: Re: [h-cost]History with at twist (was Garb Snarks) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:07:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Years ago when I first got into costuming, I stumbled accross a book in the University of Saskatchewan library that had a stunning photograph of a lovely African lady in full Elizbethan. The catch: the fabrics used for her gown were all animal/African prints in shades of orange, black and brown - zebra, leapord, you name it! They had her sitting on a dock with a tall ship behind her. Lovely! As I recall this same book had some of the Elizabethan Blackadder costumes in it as well. Does anyone here know what this book is, I never wrote the title down as I had been looking for something else at the time... Sheridan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:03 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks > > > Where did you put all that piping? > > --sue/maire > > > > I shouldn't have called it piping- it was actually a 3/16" flat black braid. > It was applied near the edges of all the tabs on the peplum and the epaulets > and in a pattern following the seams and edges of the bodice. More than > half went into bands on the skirt. If you're going to use the camo, you > might as well just go all the way. It was just another one of those > projects that got out of hand. On the other hand, it was fun to watch the > heads snap out on the road. > -Helen/Aidan > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 14:38:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26Jc3Sd024156 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:38:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26JbRcP028969; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:37:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26JbOtb077454; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:37:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i26JbMtb077441 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:37:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: (qmail 11548 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2004 21:11:14 -0000 Received: from dialup-171.75.55.30.dial1.washington1.level3.net (HELO oldwaylane.net) (171.75.55.30) by shada.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2004 21:11:14 -0000 Message-ID: <404A2702.6020704@oldwaylane.net> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 14:31:14 -0500 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Woman's viking kaftan References: <5.1.1.6.0.20040306202621.00bb9930@pop.dds.nl> In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040306202621.00bb9930@pop.dds.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Esther Stouten wrote: > Hello, > > Does anyone know where I can find more info on the woman's viking kaftan? > I have a vikingweekend coming up around easter, and as it is still very > cold here I would like to wear something over my tunic and apron dress. Hi, You might try Folkwear's Turkish Coat. The style is very similar to some dress construction (ok, if you leave off the fancy ethnic stuff) - so it's basically like making an overdress that you've split up the center front and given an overlap. It also looks very similar to one of the Swedish silver figures who seems to be wearing a coat. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 15:06:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26K6pSd024368 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:06:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26K65cP000432; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:06:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26K5wtb090128; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:06:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26K5rtb090092 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:05:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m25.in-tch.com [216.166.191.25]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i26Jh7s06604 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:43:07 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <404A2FE5.2080402@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 13:09:09 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks References: <404894C8.7020906@in-tch.com><011a01c402cb$62086330$bd943a41@HELENPINTO> <4049F0C6.5000903@in-tch.com> <00c701c403a5$669f4e60$8f719e40@HELENPINTO> In-Reply-To: <00c701c403a5$669f4e60$8f719e40@HELENPINTO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, absolutely! ;o) --sue, still shuddering at the joint poodle-elizabethan that's evolving on the list Helen Pinto wrote: >>Where did you put all that piping? >>--sue/maire >> > > > I shouldn't have called it piping- it was actually a 3/16" flat black braid. > It was applied near the edges of all the tabs on the peplum and the epaulets > and in a pattern following the seams and edges of the bodice. More than > half went into bands on the skirt. If you're going to use the camo, you > might as well just go all the way. It was just another one of those > projects that got out of hand. On the other hand, it was fun to watch the > heads snap out on the road. > -Helen/Aidan > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 15:11:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26KBjSd024382 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:11:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26KB7cP000692; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:11:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26KB6tb092473; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:11:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26KB5tb092461 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:11:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m25.in-tch.com [216.166.191.25]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i26JmIs08519 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:48:19 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <404A311D.7020507@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 13:14:21 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]History with at twist (was Garb Snarks) References: <404894C8.7020906@in-tch.com><011a01c402cb$62086330$bd943a41@HELENPINTO><4049F0C6.5000903@in-tch.com> <00c701c403a5$669f4e60$8f719e40@HELENPINTO> <002701c403ae$56870aa0$cb6afea9@sherry> In-Reply-To: <002701c403ae$56870aa0$cb6afea9@sherry> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know about your book, let alone the UofS library , but I do remember the African Elizabethan. I *think* it's mentioned in an old _Threads_ magazine. I'll dig through my pile and look for it this weekend. --sue Shane & Sheridan wrote: > Years ago when I first got into costuming, I stumbled accross a book in the > University of Saskatchewan library that had a stunning photograph of a > lovely African lady in full Elizbethan. The catch: the fabrics used for her > gown were all animal/African prints in shades of orange, black and brown - > zebra, leapord, you name it! They had her sitting on a dock with a tall ship > behind her. Lovely! > > As I recall this same book had some of the Elizabethan Blackadder costumes > in it as well. Does anyone here know what this book is, I never wrote the > title down as I had been looking for something else at the time... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 15:51:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26KpTSd024594 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:51:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26KoYcP002430; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:50:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26KoWtb010324; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:50:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26KoStc010295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:50:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i26Kr35w027054 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:53:04 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garb Snarks or Snacks Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:52:24 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <01a301c402d5$665f0790$bd943a41@HELENPINTO> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I came back after being as a Symposium for a week and found 1150 unread messages. Unfortunately this thread was the first I looked at. I hate the topic, but it's worse than crack for addictiveness. (must read.. No! Just Say NO!... must read...) It was so wonderful when it turned from the negativity of Snark to Snack and the classic memory of seeing Sedalia in that cammo Tudor at Pennsic (that is who you made it for, wasn't it Aidan? (grin - what a very clear memory of her sailing into the wind with the big sleeves puffed up like balloons!) On one of my other lists, people mention being able to tell silk from other "silk like" fabrics by tasting. I can see it now. Someone coming up to see if your garb is a "period fabric" by nibbling on it. Or is you honestly have a real case of garb snark ... Might be even better than cleaning their glasses for them! Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey Never attribute to malice what can as easily be attributed to simple social ineptness > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Helen Pinto > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 9:15 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks > > > No, never been to the West Coast. In any case, it wasn't for me- > I made it > for the Pennsic autocrat. I don't know if she wore it any place > other than > Coopers'. > -Helen/Aidan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "KATHRYN WOLTERS" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 12:02 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks > > > > Di you ever wear it to a West Coast Costumner's College? I > think I saw it! > I loved it:) > > Albra > > > > Helen Pinto wrote: > > Sue wrote: > > I've been > > > threatening for years to show up at some future peer-laden event or > > > meeting dressed in Camo Elizabethan, but I heard that's been done. > > > > Guilty as charged, but that was a long time ago- early 80's. > Nearly 50 yds > > of black piping went on it, too. > > -Helen/Aidan > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster. > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 15:51:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26KpvSd024598 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:51:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26KpKcP002486; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:51:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26KpHtb010624; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:51:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i26KpFtb010593 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:51:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sarah@modehistorique.com) Received: from unknown (HELO modehistorique.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@69.105.202.251 with plain) by smtp811.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2004 20:44:34 -0000 Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:44:26 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost]History with at twist (was Garb Snarks) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <002701c403ae$56870aa0$cb6afea9@sherry> Message-Id: <0EA3A02D-6FAF-11D8-945E-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It was "The Costume Maker's Art". I don't think it's in print any more, but I have a copy. Would you like me to scan the image for you? Sarah http://www.modehistorique.com On Saturday, March 6, 2004, at 11:07 AM, Shane & Sheridan wrote: > Years ago when I first got into costuming, I stumbled accross a book > in the > University of Saskatchewan library that had a stunning photograph of a > lovely African lady in full Elizbethan. The catch: the fabrics used > for her > gown were all animal/African prints in shades of orange, black and > brown - > zebra, leapord, you name it! They had her sitting on a dock with a > tall ship > behind her. Lovely! > > As I recall this same book had some of the Elizabethan Blackadder > costumes > in it as well. Does anyone here know what this book is, I never wrote > the > title down as I had been looking for something else at the time... > > Sheridan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Helen Pinto" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:03 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks > > >> >>> Where did you put all that piping? >>> --sue/maire >>> >> >> I shouldn't have called it piping- it was actually a 3/16" flat black > braid. >> It was applied near the edges of all the tabs on the peplum and the > epaulets >> and in a pattern following the seams and edges of the bodice. More >> than >> half went into bands on the skirt. If you're going to use the camo, >> you >> might as well just go all the way. It was just another one of those >> projects that got out of hand. On the other hand, it was fun to >> watch the >> heads snap out on the road. >> -Helen/Aidan >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _________________________________________________ http://www.elizabethanlady.com "Those who are willing to sacrifice their basic liberties to assure their security deserve neither..." Benjamin Franklin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 17:03:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26M3DSd025135 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:03:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26M1ScP005973; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:01:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26M1Ktb042045; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:01:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26M1Dtb041993 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:01:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net (firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i26LKoZ25062 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:20:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-64.158.113.143.dial1.pittsburgh1.level3.net ([64.158.113.143] helo=HELENPINTO) by firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AzjDz-00008C-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 06 Mar 2004 13:20:47 -0800 Message-ID: <01e701c403c0$e1fb1830$8f719e40@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks or Snacks Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:20:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9eff1b17e9d9dfdb90815af19758749a191350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Regina wrote: > and the classic memory of seeing Sedalia in that cammo Tudor at Pennsic > (that is who you made it for, wasn't it Aidan? (grin - what a very clear > memory of her sailing into the wind with the big sleeves puffed up like > balloons!) Yup. It was for Sedalia. And if I knew then what I know now, or even ten years ago, it wouldn't have been an eight-piece bodice... And I might have made a pair of sleeves... -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 17:08:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26M82Sd025172 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:08:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26M7PcP006237; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:07:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26M7Otb044863; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:07:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26M7Htb044823 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:07:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64FC11D30D for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:07:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p132.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.134]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 47149D4AF for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:07:15 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garb Snarks Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:07:24 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <00c701c403a5$669f4e60$8f719e40@HELENPINTO> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If this is the Camo Elizabethan that was at Pennsic many years ago, it caused a stir. One woman who believed she was a costume expert (I had my doubts, most called her a period nazi) asked why would someone do all that work with camo. I replied "Maybe because they thought it would be fun and silly?" I believe that was the Pennsic that there was a contest on the best camouflaged mundane item. De -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Helen Pinto Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 12:04 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks > Where did you put all that piping? > --sue/maire > I shouldn't have called it piping- it was actually a 3/16" flat black braid. It was applied near the edges of all the tabs on the peplum and the epaulets and in a pattern following the seams and edges of the bodice. More than half went into bands on the skirt. If you're going to use the camo, you might as well just go all the way. It was just another one of those projects that got out of hand. On the other hand, it was fun to watch the heads snap out on the road. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 17:08:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26M8XSd025177 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:08:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26M7tcP006280; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:07:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26M7stb045158; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:07:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26M7Itb044834 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:07:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F18E81D45C for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:07:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p132.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.134]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D719BD4AF for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:07:16 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garb Snarks or Snacks Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:07:25 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Talk about a fiberous snack. Actually you can usually tell real silk by the smell. {Tasting it is a bit extreme and stores would rather you not damage the merchandise unless you intend to purchase.) I don't think you can smell silk 5 feet away unless your downwind from the person and you know what sweated in silk smells like. :P De -----Original Message----- On one of my other lists, people mention being able to tell silk from other "silk like" fabrics by tasting. I can see it now. Someone coming up to see if your garb is a "period fabric" by nibbling on it. Or is you honestly have a real case of garb snark ... Might be even better than cleaning their glasses for them! Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey Never attribute to malice what can as easily be attributed to simple social ineptness > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Helen Pinto > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 9:15 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks > > > No, never been to the West Coast. In any case, it wasn't for me- > I made it > for the Pennsic autocrat. I don't know if she wore it any place > other than > Coopers'. > -Helen/Aidan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "KATHRYN WOLTERS" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 12:02 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks > > > > Di you ever wear it to a West Coast Costumner's College? I > think I saw it! > I loved it:) > > Albra > > > > Helen Pinto wrote: > > Sue wrote: > > I've been > > > threatening for years to show up at some future peer-laden event or > > > meeting dressed in Camo Elizabethan, but I heard that's been done. > > > > Guilty as charged, but that was a long time ago- early 80's. > Nearly 50 yds > > of black piping went on it, too. > > -Helen/Aidan > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster. > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 17:18:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26MI8Sd025215 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:18:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26MHRcP006677; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:17:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26MHOtb049689; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:17:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26MHMtb049680 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:17:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C00D51D4D6 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:17:22 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p132.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.134]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B5577D4B6 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:17:21 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:17:30 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <006501c40388$d0397ac0$40860118@ches> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Though E. is possible if the man in late period is known. A -D is a list of what people usually think of the person in late period garb, not the reason the person is wearing the late period garb. De -----Original Message----- You left out ... E. Or Monarch of some group and someone one wants to show off their work ... for free! :) Chiara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 17:28:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26MSDSd025281 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:28:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26MRYcP007117; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:27:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26MRXtb054389; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:27:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26MRStb054365 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:27:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65AAB1D4EA for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:27:28 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p132.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.134]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 52CBFD3F0 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:27:27 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:27:36 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you can show men in "tights" being macho and fighting a bloody battle you stand a chance of getting them in late period garb. Braveheart increased the wearing of the kilt. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 18:48:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26NmDSd025830 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 18:48:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26NkbcP010368; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:46:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26NkWtb090888; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:46:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26NkUtb090832 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:46:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52B0742615 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:00:23 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <404A64D2.30204@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 17:54:58 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Turkey Red fabrics References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040229150903.00a13a00@pop-server.kc.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040229150903.00a13a00@pop-server.kc.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > To see them, go to Hancock Fabrics > http://www.hancockfabrics.com > and put the word "archive" in the search box > at the top of the page. > > Sheryl N-D I looked at these in my local store today. They are very nice. The fabric isn't too thin and it has a nice smooth finish and a good hand. I was sorely tempted to take some home with me. I did not see any kind of manufacturer's information on the bolts though. :( The prints aren't as small as I was expecting from the pictures, there was a brown stripe (it's pictured in the sale flyer) that would be a very nice dress, and I also liked the gold-brown check with the red dots on it. My store only carries about six each of the red and brown prints, I'll have to drive all over town to find the rest of them. I hope they decide to reproduce more colors from this period. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 18:58:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26Nw0Sd025900 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 18:58:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26NvNcP010894; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:57:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26NvLtb096217; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:57:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i26NvHtb096170 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:57:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net (firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i26N8lZ25350 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:08:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-64.158.113.143.dial1.pittsburgh1.level3.net ([64.158.113.143] helo=HELENPINTO) by firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AzkuR-0000mH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 06 Mar 2004 15:08:44 -0800 Message-ID: <023d01c403cf$f73b78c0$8f719e40@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 18:08:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9eff450ed89c91468c6b5f6ae3fa860049c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO De wrote: "Maybe because they thought it would be fun and > silly?" Exactly. -Helen/Aidan (And if you're going to do it, really do it.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 19:06:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2706KSd025990 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:06:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2705hcP011207; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:05:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2705ftb000436; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:05:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2705ctb000417 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:05:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-237-196.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.237.196]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2704ca4026180 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:04:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040306152341.00dc5cf0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 15:24:18 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost]History with at twist (was Garb Snarks) In-Reply-To: <002701c403ae$56870aa0$cb6afea9@sherry> References: <404894C8.7020906@in-tch.com> <011a01c402cb$62086330$bd943a41@HELENPINTO> <4049F0C6.5000903@in-tch.com> <00c701c403a5$669f4e60$8f719e40@HELENPINTO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The costume Maker's Art, Lark Books. I'm in it too. >Years ago when I first got into costuming, I stumbled accross a book in the >University of Saskatchewan library that had a stunning photograph of a >lovely African lady in full Elizbethan. The catch: the fabrics used for her >gown were all animal/African prints in shades of orange, black and brown - >zebra, leapord, you name it! They had her sitting on a dock with a tall ship >behind her. Lovely! > >As I recall this same book had some of the Elizabethan Blackadder costumes >in it as well. Does anyone here know what this book is, I never wrote the >title down as I had been looking for something else at the time... > >Sheridan > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Helen Pinto" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:03 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks > > > > > > > Where did you put all that piping? > > > --sue/maire > > > > > > > I shouldn't have called it piping- it was actually a 3/16" flat black >braid. > > It was applied near the edges of all the tabs on the peplum and the >epaulets > > and in a pattern following the seams and edges of the bodice. More than > > half went into bands on the skirt. If you're going to use the camo, you > > might as well just go all the way. It was just another one of those > > projects that got out of hand. On the other hand, it was fun to watch the > > heads snap out on the road. > > -Helen/Aidan > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 19:14:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i270E1Sd026078 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:14:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i270DPcP011480; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:13:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i270DLtb004101; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:13:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i270DHtb004056 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:13:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-237-196.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.237.196]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i270CHa4011869 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:12:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040306160625.05a52c60@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 16:07:37 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Speaking of macho in tights, forget Braveheart - go for Errol Flynn movies... >If you can show men in "tights" being macho and fighting a bloody battle you >stand a chance of getting them in late period garb. >Braveheart increased the wearing of the kilt. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 19:14:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i270EZSd026083 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:14:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i270DvcP011510; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:13:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i270Dutb004398; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:13:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i270DJtb004069 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:13:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-237-196.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.237.196]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i270CHa6011869 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:12:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040306160811.05c266a0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 16:12:48 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Turkey Red fabrics In-Reply-To: <404A64D2.30204@reddawn.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040229150903.00a13a00@pop-server.kc.rr.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20040229150903.00a13a00@pop-server.kc.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Although bed quilts are off topic, I think we have bed-quilt-makers to thank for the repro cotton prints we have available to us. Without them and the demand they create, some of us would have a much harder time of it. Speaking of which, does any company make pre-1800 prints? I'm looking for a broidery-perse-like print for doing mid- to late-1700s with. I know there were painted textiles from China before 1800, and printed ones from India, and the beginnings of a printed textile industry in France and England. But does anyone make passable repros of any of these? > > To see them, go to Hancock Fabrics >>http://www.hancockfabrics.com >>and put the word "archive" in the search box >>at the top of the page. >>Sheryl N-D > >I looked at these in my local store today. They are very nice. The fabric >isn't too thin and it has a nice smooth finish and a good hand. I was >sorely tempted to take some home with me. I did not see any kind of >manufacturer's information on the bolts though. :( > >The prints aren't as small as I was expecting from the pictures, there was >a brown stripe (it's pictured in the sale flyer) that would be a very nice >dress, and I also liked the gold-brown check with the red dots on it. > >My store only carries about six each of the red and brown prints, I'll >have to drive all over town to find the rest of them. I hope they decide >to reproduce more colors from this period. > > > >Dawn > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 19:50:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i270ovSd026260 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:50:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i270oHcP012757; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:50:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i270oEtb021637; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:50:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i270o8tb021564 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:50:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.119.2fe05128 (25098) for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:44:44 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <119.2fe05128.2d7bca7c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:44:44 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks or Snacks To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/6/2004 4:08:41 PM Central Standard Time, otsisto@socket.net writes: I don't think you can smell silk 5 feet away unless your downwind from the person and you know what sweated in silk smells like. :P De And right about here, let's separate the Snarks from the Snacks!!! ::putting down my cheeseburger. Yuck:: LOL -Tiff _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 19:56:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i270uMSd026280 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:56:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i270tecP013013; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:55:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i270tdtb023981; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:55:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i270tZtb023957 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:55:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a230.in-tch.com [66.62.107.30]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i270Wms21311 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:32:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <404A73CB.1010505@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 17:58:51 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks or Snacks References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can sure tell silk by the smell, but apparently not everyone can. I think it's been on this list (or maybe another....I'm on too many these days!), but it's apparently one of those recessive genetic thangs. I will say, though, that I've been fooled by the feel of some of the really good microfibers. And, oddly enough, I think that silk yarns and threads are more distinctly whiffy than silk fabric. Perhaps it's the process that the fabric goes through.... The merino wool I'm spinning doesn't smelly wooly at all until I'm rinsing a given skein to set the twist. And I do admit to having some indifferent difficulty with telling the difference at a distance between a 100% linen and a blend (either linen/cotton or linen/rayon), unless the blend's really nasty or overly shiny and non linenish. I've got all 3 in my fabric stash, and it's only when I work with one type, and then pick up another that I notice the difference--the 100% linen has a different "hand" to it, and irons up differently. The rayon/linen blend drapes a bit more softly--more like a well-worn linen. --sue, who's now getting really weird mental images of edible garb...... otsisto wrote: > Talk about a fiberous snack. > Actually you can usually tell real silk by the smell. {Tasting it is a bit > extreme and stores would rather you not damage the merchandise unless you > intend to purchase.) > I don't think you can smell silk 5 feet away unless your downwind from the > person and you know what sweated in silk smells like. :P > > De > -----Original Message----- > > On one of my other lists, people mention being able to tell silk from other > "silk like" fabrics by tasting. I can see it now. Someone coming up to see > if your garb is a "period fabric" by nibbling on it. Or is you honestly > have a real case of garb snark ... Might be even better than cleaning their > glasses for them! > > > Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey > Never attribute to malice what can as easily > be attributed to simple social ineptness > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On >>Behalf Of Helen Pinto >>Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 9:15 AM >>To: Historical Costume >>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks >> >> >>No, never been to the West Coast. In any case, it wasn't for me- >>I made it >>for the Pennsic autocrat. I don't know if she wore it any place >>other than >>Coopers'. >> -Helen/Aidan >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "KATHRYN WOLTERS" >>To: "Historical Costume" >>Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 12:02 PM >>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks >> >> >> >>>Di you ever wear it to a West Coast Costumner's College? I >> >>think I saw it! >>I loved it:) >> >>>Albra >>> >>>Helen Pinto wrote: >>>Sue wrote: >>>I've been >>> >>>>threatening for years to show up at some future peer-laden event or >>>>meeting dressed in Camo Elizabethan, but I heard that's been done. >>> >>>Guilty as charged, but that was a long time ago- early 80's. >> >>Nearly 50 yds >> >>>of black piping went on it, too. >>>-Helen/Aidan >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>h-costume mailing list >>>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>>--------------------------------- >>>Do you Yahoo!? >>>Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster. >>>_______________________________________________ >>>h-costume mailing list >>>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 20:02:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2712mSd026303 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 20:02:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27129cP013283; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 18:02:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27125tb027006; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 18:02:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i27120tb026976 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 18:02:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kendra@tweedlebop.com) Received: from unknown (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.121.147.0 with login) by smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2004 01:02:00 -0000 Message-ID: <004601c403df$cb615340$0202a8c0@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040229150903.00a13a00@pop-server.kc.rr.com><5.1.0.14.0.20040229150903.00a13a00@pop-server.kc.rr.com> <4.3.1.2.20040306160811.05c266a0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Turkey Red fabrics Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:01:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" > Speaking of which, does any company make pre-1800 prints? I'm looking for > a broidery-perse-like print for doing mid- to late-1700s with. I know > there were painted textiles from China before 1800, and printed ones from > India, and the beginnings of a printed textile industry in France and > England. But does anyone make passable repros of any of these? I actually just wrote a short article on 18th century printed cottons for the GBACG newsletter -- the online version should be up shortly. In the meantime, here's are the bit about repro sources straight from my article: For those on a budget: -- Andover Fabrics released a line a year or two ago called "Broderie Perse." Although these fabrics are more appropriate to nineteenth century reproductions (the designs are rather dense, the backgrounds rather dark, and the colors on some fabrics are too pink and green), they would work for eighteenth-century-esque - stick to the lighter background fabrics. These fabrics are somewhat hard to find online, and seem to run in the $9/yard range. -- P&B Textiles released a series of fabrics a few years ago based on the DAR Museum collection; #17E and #15E are in original colors and look like good reproductionss. However, I haven't been able to find any online dealers that still carry these fabrics so they may no longer be available. http://www.pbtex.com/html/dar.html For those with a bit more to spend: -- Reproduction Fabrics currently offers a fabric (#1S390L) in their "Other 1775-1825 Fabrics" category that is a reproduction of a Mulhouse (one of the French fabric mills) 1780 print for $15/yard. http://www.reproductionfabrics.com/ -- Mad Turban sells Indian blockprinted tapestries that could be used for reproduction clothing (about $25 for a 60"x90" piece). http://www.madturban.com/ -- Waverly fabrics has released a collection along with Colonial Williamsburg (the Tidewater Collection Vol. I), which feature a fabric called "Indienne." The Colonial Red and the Indigo colors look pretty darn good. These fabrics seem to run about $25/yard. http://www.waverly.com/wavis/waverly.asp For those willing to break the bank: -- Dutch Quilts offers a number of fabulous reproductions for 25 euros/meter; of their current offerings, the "Wilhelmina," "Hindeloopen," "Zaanstreek," and "Island Marken" fabrics (in ecru/madder red) look perfect for reproductions. http://www.dutchquilts.com/ -- French-Fabrics.com carries a reproduction of a 1790s Jouy (a French fabric mill) print (#INDI2) for about $33/yard (10% discount for orders of 10-20 yards; 20% discount for 20+ yards). http://www.french-fabrics.com/ -- The French Rendezvous currently offers a fabric (mrm1) that looks like a pretty good reproduction for $38/yard. http://www.frenchrendezvous OBLIGATORY HISTORICAL ACCURACY NOTE: Most modern cottons cannot perfectly reproduce fabrics created in the eighteenth century. Decorator fabric can be too heavy and have prints that are too large in scale; quilt fabric can be too light and too tightly woven. If you're a stickler for historical accuracy, you may want to stay away from cotton prints altogether. - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 20:27:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i271R7Sd026416 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 20:27:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i271QTcP014537; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 18:26:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i271QQtb038252; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 18:26:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i271QOtc038240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 18:26:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net (acty1020.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.242.20]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i271Qr11013064 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 20:26:53 -0500 Message-ID: <404A7A37.4060906@dandy.net> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:26:15 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks References: <200403051747.i25Hl1Xh008686@jefferson.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <200403051747.i25Hl1Xh008686@jefferson.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. Carol, you just hit the nail on the head. In any group with defined clothing (or costume) standards, there is a better chance that any comments will be of the constructive variety. In my old Regiment, winter meetings were for presenting current info, and helping members upgrade their gear. Anyone could discuss his or her findings, what other units were doing and the like. In all of the reenactment groups I have been in (since 1976 when I first started reenacting) there has been no "snarking" within the groups to which I have belonged. There is the famous "FARB" (far be it for me to comment on xyz...) aspect of reenacting, but there is certainly a lot less than there could be... Sometimes it goes the other way, like the "button-pissers", guys in ACW reenacting that "authentically" tarnish their buttons by using urine (possibly legendary, I don't personally know anyone that does it). I guess, then, that any group that has lax clothing standards is not in any position to complain when the clothes are not up to the nonexistant "standard" . Mike T. > It's a shame that it's so rampant in the SCA, because bad garb is still an >attempt at garb, and therefore "right" according to the SCA rules. Reenactment >groups sometimes have written standards and clothing inspectors, to be sure >everything worn is within the standards. Other groups are more lax, and more >snarking occurs. > > -Carol > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 21:10:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i272AZSd026674 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:10:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2729gcP016188; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:09:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2729btb062339; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:09:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2729Ztb062318 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:09:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Camelothorse@earthlink.net) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i271veZ22657 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:57:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-67.74.141.244.dial1.houston1.level3.net ([67.74.141.244] helo=diane) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AznXf-0004iY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 06 Mar 2004 17:57:25 -0800 Message-ID: <020c01c403e7$a69e08c0$e6834a43@diane> From: "Diane Maynard" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040306154905.16849.qmail@web12501.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Butting In .. (was Real men don't wear tights) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:58:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OMG---Just give me a MAN in tights !! Be still my heart !!! Don't they understand ? WE are just as bad as men about looking at the opposite sex. I want to see his LEGS !!!! ( and seeing his toosh does not hurt my feelings either---perhaps a nice broad include chest ). NO-----I do not want to see EVERYTHING explicitly. I can find that out for myself in private. AND----WHAT fun learning can be !!! BUT---are they THAT insecure that they do NOT want to show their assets ? If so, what a shame ! They are really missing out on a LOT of fun. Diane PS---to all you men out there----I am 5' 5" and weigh 125 lbs.-- not only wear Elizabethan but, also stay in persona while riding my horses. (astride and sidesaddle) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lil Sorepaws" To: Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 9:49 AM Subject: [h-cost] OT: Butting In .. (was Real men don't wear tights) > I'm not sure if they still hold it, but MIRF used to have a "men in > tights" contest that was truely droolworthy. A man wearing a nice set of > tights (preferably NOT exercise or nylon biking tights that are half sheer > and leave nothing to the imagination .. pardon the vulgarity but I would > rather not be able to accurately estimate someone's ability to father > children just by glancing at the front of his tights ;) and a doublet or > even a well constructed shirt is to me far more sexy than some guy wearing > a plaid sheet bundled at his waist with his fishbelly white potbelly > hanging over the beltbuckle. (*thinks of her ex Bill and cackles at the > memory*) > > Maybe I'm odd (*GRIN*) but one of my pet peeves with guys in tights is > when they match those with short "shoes" or boots as opposed to knee of > thigh boots. To me the ankles just look FUNNY in slippers or fitted short > boots - giving their legs an almost drumstick effect. My boytoy wears a > kilt with those fitted short boots (at least its an authentic kilt ... > *sigh*) and I keep trying to get him into something sexier ... I even > bought him NICE knee high cavalier boots and some very "pettable" tights > (he has the buns for em - he just thinks tights are for sissies - LOL .. > maybe PINK VELVET tights (thinking the fops at Faire ..) but a nicely > shaped man in tights who has the tush for it ..... Now I know shoes were > far more period than boots if we are to judge from the portraits etc.. but > give me a man in manly boots any day .. ooh ;) > > - Lil (someone hand me a kerchief please? I'm drooling ;) > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 22:37:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i273bMSd026913 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:37:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i273ajcP019568; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 20:36:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i273aatb001891; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 20:36:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i273aYtb001871 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 20:36:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-33-110.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.33.110]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i273aV1m027113 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:36:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040306192911.057c0410@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:36:25 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Turkey Red fabrics In-Reply-To: <004601c403df$cb615340$0202a8c0@hopperflop2> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040229150903.00a13a00@pop-server.kc.rr.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20040229150903.00a13a00@pop-server.kc.rr.com> <4.3.1.2.20040306160811.05c266a0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >-- P&B Textiles released a series of fabrics a few years ago based on the >DAR Museum collection; #17E and #15E are in original colors and look like >good reproductionss. However, I haven't been able to find any online dealers >that still carry these fabrics so they may no longer be available. >http://www.pbtex.com/html/dar.html These were exactly what I was looking for, so of course they're likely 'out of print'. OTOH, I may just block print my own - some of the really simple original stuff I've seen is no better than I could do. And it's just for lining so it doesn't have to be perfect. I've e-mailed my local quilt store to see if they can get these, or anything like them. Thank you so much. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 23:29:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i274TkSd027089 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:29:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i274SwcP021403; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:28:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i274Sqtb025330; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:28:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i274Sjtb025294 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:28:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D9671D58B for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:28:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p717.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.213.210]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CAF94D3F3 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:28:42 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:28:51 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <404A7A37.4060906@dandy.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I disagree. I have seen some LHs having standards and still there is snarking. Perhaps not as much as groups with little or no standards. I would like to point out that SCA does have standards but not as detailed as LHers because it covers a broad range of time and area. Also, there are many people who are in it for costuming or craft and not for the full authenticity experience. Most period police tend to forget that and then get annoyed at the person who they think is not authentic to their standards of periodness because it bursts they little bubble. De -----Original Message----- Hi, All. Carol, you just hit the nail on the head. In any group with defined clothing (or costume) standards, there is a better chance that any comments will be of the constructive variety. In my old Regiment, winter meetings were for presenting current info, and helping members upgrade their gear. Anyone could discuss his or her findings, what other units were doing and the like. In all of the reenactment groups I have been in (since 1976 when I first started reenacting) there has been no "snarking" within the groups to which I have belonged. There is the famous "FARB" (far be it for me to comment on xyz...) aspect of reenacting, but there is certainly a lot less than there could be... Sometimes it goes the other way, like the "button-pissers", guys in ACW reenacting that "authentically" tarnish their buttons by using urine (possibly legendary, I don't personally know anyone that does it). I guess, then, that any group that has lax clothing standards is not in any position to complain when the clothes are not up to the nonexistant "standard" . Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 23:41:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i274fOSd027138 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:41:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i274eccP021780; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:40:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i274eZtb030488; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:40:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav43.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i274eXtb030440 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:40:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 20:23:12 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav43.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 04:23:12 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:24:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Mar 2004 04:23:12.0607 (UTC) FILETIME=[E75616F0:01C403FB] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yep. That was my second best idea for the next Silly Liz contest :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 11:02 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garb Snarks > Oh my. Had a visual of an Elisabeth. Main fabric a gingerbread color with > white and pink piping all over. Gumdrop coloured buttons with crystal beads > sewn on top to simulate sugar. black freshwater pearls for bead strands that > look like raisins, and a peppermint swirl drop for the fob. and licorice > looking ties. This can be applied to Landsknecht with a peppermint swirl > drop for the hat. > > De > > > Albra > (getting these funny little visuals of gingerbread elizabetheans > doublets ---and choking tea all over her keyboard!) > > Robin Netherton wrote: > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 23:54:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i274sTSd027163 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:54:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i274rocP022260; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:53:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i274rmtb036105; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:53:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav55.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i274rjtb036059 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:53:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 20:36:22 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav55.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 04:36:22 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:37:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Mar 2004 04:36:22.0766 (UTC) FILETIME=[BE4EC8E0:01C403FD] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Many men don't consider late period noblemen outfits to be manly, nor do > they consider the outfits to be "babe" magnets. This type of thinking is > usually found more among the younger men then the older more secure men. I think some men just still don't understand what women find attractive... Nice clothes are always good, especially if they show off your butt. Daring is good too, if you're willing to wear "obvious" clothing, meaning it's involved enough that you know everyone's going to look at it, then women like that too. And many men just refuse to wear the codpiece... :-( _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 6 23:59:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i274xcSd027181 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:59:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i274x0cP022640; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i274wxtb038234; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:59:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i274wstb038220 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:58:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 766E61D502 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:58:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p717.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.213.210]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 375CED3F0 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:58:53 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:59:02 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040306160625.05a52c60@mail.frys.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Braveheart vs. Errol Flynn X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO But in Braveheart the men could be crude, show their arse to the enemy all that rip roarin' fighters stuff. Errol Flynn on the other hand shows a golly ol" good time. Not really blood an guts. Though many of the Errol Flynn and the like type movies did inspired many a young woman to want to wear the fairytale dresses though they were not necessarily period. De -----Original Message----- Speaking of macho in tights, forget Braveheart - go for Errol Flynn movies... >If you can show men in "tights" being macho and fighting a bloody battle you >stand a chance of getting them in late period garb. >Braveheart increased the wearing of the kilt. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 00:05:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2755SSd027197 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:05:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2754qcP022858; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:04:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2754otb040757; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:04:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f87.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2754mtb040715 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:04:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 20:47:27 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.9 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 04:47:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.9] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 22:47:26 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Mar 2004 04:47:27.0099 (UTC) FILETIME=[4A47F4B0:01C403FF] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just a side comment -- Historically accurate men -don't- wear tights :) They wear hose, hosen, or stockings "Tights" are a 19th century invention. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 00:12:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i275CASd027204 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:12:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275BXcP023294; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:11:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275BUtb043625; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:11:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out003.verizon.net (out003pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275BPtb043603 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:11:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([141.152.186.16]) by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040307051124.TBZG2031.out003.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:11:24 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:11:22 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [141.152.186.16] at Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:11:24 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of otsisto > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 4:27 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) > > > I have noticed though that a man in a late period outfit is usually > considered: > A. Gay > B. Married > C. Going to be married > D. Momma sewed it. > > B & C reasoning is that no woman would go to all that trouble to > make a late > period garment for a man unless she's got him hook, line and sinker. > Many men don't consider late period noblemen outfits to be manly, nor do > they consider the outfits to be "babe" magnets. This type of thinking is > usually found more among the younger men then the older more secure men. > > De > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Young men don't really know what women find attractive. Of course I wore tights when I was younger! I do have a problem with the above perceptions. I have never had a women make me an Elizabethan outfit, and I have worn many! Of course the same people who believe the above would categorize me as A. just upon hearing I sew! A similar difficulty is found with dancing. I used to do a good deal of Victorian Dancing before I moved to Dance Free Virginia. Often I would hear young men refusing to learn to dance because it wasn't manly. Through most of history however it was NOT dancing that was unmanly! Done right it most certainly is manly (just as you women mention are those tights). I laughed last however! It is unfortunate for the women, but it was great to be a young talented male (heterosexual) dancer surrounded by too many women lacking partners! Oh to be young again! Its interesting that this discussion is entangled only in Elizabethan. I work in the 18th century. Clothing in that period often are assumed in to mean much the same as the above letters. Well actually mostly A again. In fact it is a common stereotype in Popular culture. Hose, knee breeches, lace, floral embroidery, pastel colors, wigs all conspire with modern judgments that have nothing to do with the period. Cheers, Ron _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 00:15:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i275FZSd027207 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:15:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275EvcP023450; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:14:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275Ettb045161; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:14:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275Entb045087 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:14:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from 39jz301 ([63.139.56.203]) by fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040307051429.YUGJ411419.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:14:29 -0500 Message-ID: <004c01c40403$1ade5d50$cb388b3f@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <119.2fe05128.2d7bca7c@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks or Snacks Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:14:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [63.139.56.203] using ID at Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:14:29 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > In a message dated 3/6/2004 4:08:41 PM Central Standard Time, > otsisto@socket.net writes: > I don't think you can smell silk 5 feet away unless your downwind from the > person and you know what sweated in silk smells like. :P I sure can, particularly if it's silk noile, no sweat required, and probably from 10 feet. I remember freaking out some friends while we were in Target and wandering into the clothing department by suddenly sniffing the air and saying "I smell silk!" They thought I was nuts, but I was right.... Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 00:19:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i275JVSd027221 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:19:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275ItcP023651; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:18:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275Istb046864; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:18:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275Iotb046844 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:18:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sherylnd@kc.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com (CPE-65-30-107-115.kc.rr.com [65.30.107.115]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i275IjV7009022 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:18:48 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20040306231031.00a079d0@pop-server.kc.rr.com> X-Sender: sherylnd@pop-server.kc.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 23:20:26 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Modern Fashion in Detail In-Reply-To: <40464F54.107@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree with the other replies - this is worth buying. I did. Seriously though, as the others said, it covers 20th century designer clothing. The book is divided by type of item shown. For instance, there are chapters on buttons, seams, bows, applied decoration, etc. Each item featured has a full-page, close-up color photo of some detail that fits with the theme of the chapter. On the opposing page, there are 2 line drawings of the front and back of the full item of clothing from which the detail photo was taken. Under the drawings is a 2 or 3 paragraph description of the item and sometimes a little about the designer or the item's history. Since all of the items are owned by the Victoria & Albert Museum, the description also includes a brief mention of who donated the item to the museum and what I assume is the acquisition number. If you are interested in couture touches and small details, then this is a very worthwhile book to have. But please note...if you are a beginner, this will not give much historical detail or show you much of the fashionable silhouette. It is exactly what the title says - tiny details of modern fashions shown in glorious, exquisite photos. Sheryl N-D At 03:34 PM 3/3/04 -0600, you wrote: >Can anyone tell me more about this book? I'm having a hard time finding >out what the contents are, other than a single review which compares it to >_Fashion in detail - 17th & 18th Century_. Is it entirely pictures? Is >there any commentary? Diagrams? What are the years that are covered? > >My husband's employer is offering books from this publisher at half price, >and this is about the only costume book we can find on the list. > > > >Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 00:28:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i275SBSd027267 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:28:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275RYcP024043; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:27:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275RXtb050608; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:27:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out010.verizon.net (out010pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275RTtb050593 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:27:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([141.152.186.16]) by out010.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040307051851.TEDI26728.out010.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:18:51 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Braveheart vs. Errol Flynn Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:18:49 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out010.verizon.net from [141.152.186.16] at Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:18:51 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is some truth to this, but it has more to do with when the movies were made, and not the period represented. (Not that Braveheart had much to do with its period). Look at some of the great heros of Elizabethan England however. The expoits of Francis Drake, Phillippe Sidney, Roger Williams, John Norris. The battles in South America, Ireland, and Holland. All of these a bigger than life characters engaged in very heroic and often hard to believe adventures, and all crude, the period was crude. Much of the humour was low and scatalogical. These men were soldiers (well all but one). All four of the men I just mentioned had far more Huevos than any of these gutless wonders afraid to wear hose, and that is exactly the dress of all four of these men. R Carnegie > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of otsisto > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 11:59 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] Braveheart vs. Errol Flynn > > > But in Braveheart the men could be crude, show their arse to the enemy all > that rip roarin' fighters stuff. Errol Flynn on the other hand > shows a golly > ol" good time. Not really blood an guts. > > Though many of the Errol Flynn and the like type movies did > inspired many a > young woman to want to wear the fairytale dresses though they were not > necessarily period. > > De > -----Original Message----- > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 00:29:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i275TnSd027271 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:29:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275TDcP024092; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:29:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275TCtb051282; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:29:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275T6tb051259 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:29:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6FCE1D059 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:29:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p717.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.213.210]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 63D31D3F3 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:29:05 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:29:14 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just can't understand why they won't wear the cute red heart codpiece with the squeaker in it. :) De Need to stop now. Too many codpiece designs are starting to run through my head. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Audrey Bergeron-Morin Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 10:37 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) > Many men don't consider late period noblemen outfits to be manly, nor do > they consider the outfits to be "babe" magnets. This type of thinking is > usually found more among the younger men then the older more secure men. I think some men just still don't understand what women find attractive... Nice clothes are always good, especially if they show off your butt. Daring is good too, if you're willing to wear "obvious" clothing, meaning it's involved enough that you know everyone's going to look at it, then women like that too. And many men just refuse to wear the codpiece... :-( _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 00:36:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i275a0Sd027305 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:36:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275ZLcP024346; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:35:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275ZItb053939; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:35:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275ZDtb053909 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:35:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i275RjZ07326 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:27:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from user-12l237b.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.12.235] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AzqpA-00020u-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 06 Mar 2004 21:27:40 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20040306082110.021d2800@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 08:29:59 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200403051507.i25F7HEb010685@net.indra.com> References: <200403051507.i25F7HEb010685@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Nun's Habits X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nun's habits, of course, vary from order to order. Vatican II in no way required nun's to change or modernize their habits. Some did; some didn't . Their dress is still supposed to be distinctive. For example, here in Lincoln we have an order of cloistered nuns; The Sisters of Christ the King, also known as the pink sisters. Their habit is still the full, long style and is bright pink in color. Other orders have adopted a shorter style. Still others' are only minimally different from everyday dress. The only book I have found on the subject is "The Habit: A History of the Clothing of Catholic Nuns" by Elizabeth Kuhns, published by Doubleday. There are a couple of paper doll books available; but they are only pictures with minimal information. The ones I have are: "Holy Habits: Traditional Nun Paper Dolls: Mother Anthony Marie" "Holy Habits: Traditional Nun Paper Dolls: Sister Mary Grace" both by Laura Wattles and available from IHS Enterprises. Pierre "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 00:38:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i275cSSd027319 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:38:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275bpcP024412; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:37:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275bntb054983; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:37:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275bjtb054961 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:37:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3654D1D4CC for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:37:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p717.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.213.210]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 23B77D3F3 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:37:44 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:37:53 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Whatever you call them many men still won't wear them. Now there is a slow change of attitude with the gaining interest in the Landesknecht. De -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Marc Carlson Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 10:47 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] RE: Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) Just a side comment -- Historically accurate men -don't- wear tights :) They wear hose, hosen, or stockings "Tights" are a 19th century invention. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 00:57:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i275vMSd027377 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:57:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275uicP025025; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:56:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275uftb063414; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:56:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i275uctb063347 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:56:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C71F1D567 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:56:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p717.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.213.210]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CCE7ED3F3 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:56:36 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Braveheart vs. Errol Flynn Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:56:46 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree with you. It is the portrayal in the movies that "inspire" the men to wear an article of clothing, not the period. (From what I understand from my history buff husband, Braveheart took quite a few liberties with historical accuracies.) So far, (to my knowledge) no one have made an action packed movie about Drake, Sidney, Williams, or Norris. Napoleonic living history buffs increased their numbers with the BBC Horatio Hornblower series and Sharpie's men. Something that grips the man and says that is a man I want to be (or pretend to be) De -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Ron Carnegie Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 11:19 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Braveheart vs. Errol Flynn There is some truth to this, but it has more to do with when the movies were made, and not the period represented. (Not that Braveheart had much to do with its period). Look at some of the great heros of Elizabethan England however. The expoits of Francis Drake, Phillippe Sidney, Roger Williams, John Norris. The battles in South America, Ireland, and Holland. All of these a bigger than life characters engaged in very heroic and often hard to believe adventures, and all crude, the period was crude. Much of the humour was low and scatalogical. These men were soldiers (well all but one). All four of the men I just mentioned had far more Huevos than any of these gutless wonders afraid to wear hose, and that is exactly the dress of all four of these men. R Carnegie > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of otsisto > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 11:59 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] Braveheart vs. Errol Flynn > > > But in Braveheart the men could be crude, show their arse to the enemy all > that rip roarin' fighters stuff. Errol Flynn on the other hand > shows a golly > ol" good time. Not really blood an guts. > > Though many of the Errol Flynn and the like type movies did > inspired many a > young woman to want to wear the fairytale dresses though they were not > necessarily period. > > De > -----Original Message----- > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 01:21:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i276LBSd027436 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 01:21:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27678cP025274; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:07:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27676tb068549; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:07:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27672tb068537 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:07:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-236-91.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.236.91]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27670w9024220 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:07:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040306220100.05f836d0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 22:01:31 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Just a side comment -- > >Historically accurate men -don't- wear tights :) They wear hose, hosen, >or stockings "Tights" are a 19th century invention. OK, so tights are only sexy in the 19th century - I do lots of different centuries... CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 01:21:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i276LBSf027436 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 01:21:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i276DdcP025539; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:13:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i276Datb071379; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:13:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i276DWtb071361 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:13:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-236-91.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.236.91]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i276DVw9026566 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:13:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040306220825.05f7d2a0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 22:12:49 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I work in the 18th century. Clothing in that period often are assumed in to >mean much the same as the above letters. Well actually mostly A again. In >fact it is a common stereotype in Popular culture. Hose, knee breeches, >lace, floral embroidery, pastel colors, wigs all conspire with modern >judgments that have nothing to do with the period. Gay men are often sexy in ways hetero women can relate to, but they're still sexy. Just because I'm not on their diet doesn't mean I can't read the menu. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 01:21:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i276LBSh027436 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 01:21:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2767acP025292; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:07:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2767Ztb068759; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:07:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27673tb068544 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:07:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-236-91.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.236.91]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27670wB024220 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:07:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040306220150.05f87eb0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 22:03:25 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Braveheart vs. Errol Flynn In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20040306160625.05a52c60@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >But in Braveheart the men could be crude, show their arse to the enemy all >that rip roarin' fighters stuff. Errol Flynn on the other hand shows a golly >ol" good time. Not really blood an guts. > >Though many of the Errol Flynn and the like type movies did inspired many a >young woman to want to wear the fairytale dresses though they were not >necessarily period. I think we were talking abut sexy historical costumes. When Errol Flynn was acting in those films, he was sexy-looking for the period, and a lot of what he wore is still sexy today. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 06:38:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27BcBSd008345 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 06:38:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27BaMcP005651; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 04:36:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27BaCtb005561; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 04:36:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out001.verizon.net (out001pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27Ba9tb005546 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 04:36:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([162.84.113.178]) by out001.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040307113608.UAPM1464.out001.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 05:36:08 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Braveheart vs. Errol Flynn Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 06:36:05 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out001.verizon.net from [162.84.113.178] at Sun, 7 Mar 2004 05:36:07 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What a was suggesting perhaps to obliquely, is that these Elizabethans would be fine characters or provide excellent stories for a modern, crude, action packed film that could change these perceptions. No the majority of the names I mentioned have no meaning to current popular culture at all. R. Carnegie > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of otsisto > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 12:57 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Braveheart vs. Errol Flynn > > > I agree with you. It is the portrayal in the movies that "inspire" the men > to wear an article of clothing, not the period. (From what I > understand from > my history buff husband, Braveheart took quite a few liberties with > historical accuracies.) So far, (to my knowledge) no one have > made an action > packed movie about Drake, Sidney, Williams, or Norris. > Napoleonic living history buffs increased their numbers with the > BBC Horatio > Hornblower series and Sharpie's men. > Something that grips the man and says that is a man I want to be > (or pretend > to be) > De > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Ron Carnegie > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 11:19 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Braveheart vs. Errol Flynn > > > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 07:10:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27CAjSd008457 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:10:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27CA5cP006471; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 05:10:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27CA2tb018561; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 05:10:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out006.verizon.net (out006pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27C9vtb018495 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 05:09:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([162.84.113.178]) by out006.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040307120042.JFNG1634.out006.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 06:00:42 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:00:39 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [162.84.113.178] at Sun, 7 Mar 2004 06:00:41 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This comment sure surprised me. I always felt the codpiece were over worn. What I mean is applied to garments that as far as the art and extant garments suggest should never have had one in the first place. Of course part of that comes from the Bigglestone/Schultz book (er... who are they now I think its Savoy/Winter now. The most obvious example of this would be Elizabethan breeches or Venetians. By the Elizabethan period, as far as I can tell, codpieces only are found on trunk hose like what is commonly referred to today as "pumpkin slops" and their variations such as the german pluderhosen. Actually now that I think about it I seem to recall that they do survive longer and appear in other forms in Germanic clothing as well. I may be mistaken on this. So much of the famous german stuff is Landsknecht and really predates Elizabethan. You know this discussion reminded me of an outfit I made to play Romeo in several years ago. It was a 15th century Burgundian based costume. This is not a period that I have studied a lot, so my terms for the garments will probably be wrong. (I knew what they were called then, but I have forgotten). It was basically a short doublet made out of a silk jacquard I had around, with a v-necked velvet jerkin. These garments were skirted and either just covered my but, or half of it I can't remember which. I wore this with tights. As Marc mentioned it should have been hose, but this was a theatrical costume that was thrown together quickly and cheaply out of what I already had around the house. Outfit was only worn by me once (I sold it). When I put it on for the performance (the time it was worn) the actress playing the nurse saw me and quite startledly exclaimed, "How Butch" quite seriously. That always stayed with me. One because it was one of the first times I was referred to as butch, and two I sure didn't expect it wearing that outfit! Frankly it looked like a ballet costume to me, but then my mom used to check out the buts on the male baleet dancers so whose to say. Cheers, Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Audrey Bergeron-Morin > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 11:37 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) > > > > Many men don't consider late period noblemen outfits to be manly, nor do > > they consider the outfits to be "babe" magnets. This type of thinking is > > usually found more among the younger men then the older more secure men. > > I think some men just still don't understand what women find attractive... > Nice clothes are always good, especially if they show off your > butt. Daring > is good too, if you're willing to wear "obvious" clothing, meaning it's > involved enough that you know everyone's going to look at it, then women > like that too. And many men just refuse to wear the codpiece... :-( > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 09:48:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27EmkSd009208 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 09:48:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27Em9cP011670; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:48:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27Elwtb082884; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:47:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27Elutb082827 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:47:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.32.44fa8df3 (4568) for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 09:47:48 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <32.44fa8df3.2d7c9014@aol.com> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 09:47:48 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Braveheart vs. Errol Flynn To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/6/2004 11:27:59 PM Central Standard Time, r.carnegie@verizon.net writes: All four of the men I just mentioned had far more Huevos than any of these gutless wonders afraid to wear hose, and that is exactly the dress of all four of these men. Yes, but at the time, every other man walking around was wearing the same thing and there had not yet been spoof films made intimating that they might be a little light in the loafers for doing so. I don't think it's *just* a matter of gutlessness, I think to a certain extent it's about comfort as well. I've personally never worn a pair of slops and some knitted stockings, but you'd have to shanghai me to get me to do so to an outdoor faire in 90 degree heat. The huge advantage to wearing an admittedly un-period hoop skirt under my skirts (rather than layers and layers of petticoats) is that it provides central air conditioning. If I were a guy, I'd probably view kilts the same way. -Tiff _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 10:22:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27FMVSd009377 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:22:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27FLscP012778; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:21:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27FLotb097577; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:21:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12908.mail.yahoo.com (web12908.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.75]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i27FLmtb097561 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:21:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20040307151507.88797.qmail@web12908.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.48.41.31] by web12908.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 10:15:07 EST Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:15:07 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page Subject: RE: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200403070614.i276E8tb071609@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *giggles madly* I am in the planning stages of reproducing the Sture garments. The codpieces are for all intents and purposes big floofy bows of fabric.... the guy I am making it for has enough of a demented sense of humour to appreciate the notion of having a squeeky toy buried in the bows of the codpiece... I'm still giggling over the idea!!! Thanks! Kathy I just can't understand why they won't wear the cute red heart codpiece with the squeaker in it. :) De Need to stop now. Too many codpiece designs are starting to run through my head. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 10:37:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27FbSSd009411 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:37:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27FaocP013364; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:36:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27Faltb004333; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:36:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27Factb004291 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:36:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i27FVZZ20148 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:31:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B00Fa-0004fp-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 07:31:34 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:32:02 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c40459$5706a430$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <20040307151507.88797.qmail@web12908.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You have reminded me of my 'to do' list. I have a fellow who wants me to make him a pair of 'pants' with a cod piece which has one of these puppets on the end whose head is manipulated by a cable. They are pretty cool. I have actually seen patrons who can be convinced they are real (griffens, dragons etc)! Just when you think you have seen it all! Sg > I'm still giggling over the idea!!! Thanks! > > Kathy > > > I just can't understand why they won't wear the cute red heart codpiece with > the squeaker in it. :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 10:48:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27Fm9Sd009460 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:48:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27FlXcP013844; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:47:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27FlUtb008969; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:47:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i27FlStb008909 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:47:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Oj8M/EwW3Y9GLD9we4ZiSO8=">; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 07:46:43 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JP5N5RU7; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 07:46:43 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:26:34 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) Message-ID: <20040307.074554.1620.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-13 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend of our designed one which was a "bird in a gilden cage," as he put it. Arlys On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:29:14 -0600 "otsisto" writes: > I just can't understand why they won't wear the cute red heart > codpiece with > the squeaker in it. :) > > De > Need to stop now. Too many codpiece designs are starting to run > through my > head. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 10:48:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27FmLSd009463 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:48:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27FlkcP013861; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:47:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27Fljtb009053; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:47:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i27FlStb008908 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:47:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Oj8M/EwW3Y9GeepXsAbHzIk=">; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 07:46:43 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JP5N5RU4; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 07:46:43 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:25:22 -0800 Message-ID: <20040307.074554.1620.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A lot of women enjoy a shapely leg and butt in a man. Henry VIII was very well known for his, and he was proud of them. How period can you get? Arlys, definately a leg lady ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 11:13:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27GDvSd009518 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:13:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27GDJcP014782; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 09:13:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27GDEtb020451; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 09:13:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27GD8tb020431 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 09:13:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net (firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i27GBDZ09001 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:11:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-67.74.227.186.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.227.186] helo=HELENPINTO) by firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B00rv-0000tK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 08:11:11 -0800 Message-ID: <00ce01c4045e$cd999d50$bae34a43@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040307151507.88797.qmail@web12908.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:11:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9eff253f54e994699c0c95140cea1600e55350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > De wrote: > Need to stop now. Too many codpiece designs are starting to run through my > head. Forget squeaky toys- I have always wanted to make a codpiece that has mechanized fish-tail sticking out the side, possibly even with a motion sensor or a small button remote so it can flap upon close inspection or in response to the "what have you got in there" question... (Answer: My cod, of course...) -Helen/Aidan (who is frequently guilty of over-engineering) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 12:05:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27H5lSd009723 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:05:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27H57cP016717; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:05:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27H55tb044187; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:05:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27H51tb044164 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:05:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a253.in-tch.com [66.62.107.53]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i27GgDs11370 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 09:42:13 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <404B5701.5010609@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 10:08:17 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights References: <20040307151507.88797.qmail@web12908.mail.yahoo.com> <00ce01c4045e$cd999d50$bae34a43@HELENPINTO> In-Reply-To: <00ce01c4045e$cd999d50$bae34a43@HELENPINTO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How about one done in stumpwork? a big, green pea pod with smaller, fuzzy fabric peas inside comes to mind.... --sue, in a really evil frame of mind....;o) Helen Pinto wrote: >>De wrote: >>Need to stop now. Too many codpiece designs are starting to run through my >>head. > > > > Forget squeaky toys- I have always wanted to make a codpiece that has > mechanized fish-tail sticking out the side, possibly even with a motion > sensor or a small button remote so it can flap upon close inspection or in > response to the "what have you got in there" question... (Answer: My cod, > of course...) > -Helen/Aidan (who is frequently guilty of over-engineering) > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 12:25:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27HPXSd009817 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:25:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27HP0cP017508; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:25:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27HOstb053597; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:24:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27HOotc053572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:24:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i27HOdPV023181 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:24:39 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 12:24:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <404B5AE0.7030205@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 12:24:48 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights References: <20040307151507.88797.qmail@web12908.mail.yahoo.com> <00ce01c4045e$cd999d50$bae34a43@HELENPINTO> <404B5701.5010609@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <404B5701.5010609@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: > How about one done in stumpwork? a big, green pea pod with smaller, > fuzzy fabric peas inside comes to mind.... > --sue, in a really evil frame of mind....;o) A design of wild oats.... -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Oh, and while we're at it, God also really hates shrimp. Maybe you didn't know. Shrimp are evil, as are all shrimp eaters. Clams, too. Hey, it's in the Bible. You can look it up. -- Mark Morford _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 12:29:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27HTZSd009840 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:29:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27HSqcP017718; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:28:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27HSptb055380; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:28:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27HSmtb055359 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:28:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a253.in-tch.com [66.62.107.53]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i27H60s19413 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:06:00 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <404B5C94.1080409@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 10:32:04 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights References: <20040307151507.88797.qmail@web12908.mail.yahoo.com> <00ce01c4045e$cd999d50$bae34a43@HELENPINTO> <404B5701.5010609@in-tch.com> <404B5AE0.7030205@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <404B5AE0.7030205@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooooh....in gold embroidery! --sue Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Sue Clemenger wrote: > >> How about one done in stumpwork? a big, green pea pod with smaller, >> fuzzy fabric peas inside comes to mind.... >> --sue, in a really evil frame of mind....;o) > > > A design of wild oats.... > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 12:31:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27HVmSd009848 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:31:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27HVCcP017815; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:31:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27HV9tb056538; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:31:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27HV2tc056491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:31:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27HX6E6000468 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:33:06 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i27HX63t000466 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:33:06 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks or Snacks Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:33:05 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <119.2fe05128.2d7bca7c@aol.com> <004c01c40403$1ade5d50$cb388b3f@39jz301> In-Reply-To: <004c01c40403$1ade5d50$cb388b3f@39jz301> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403071233.05825.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 07 March 2004 12:14 am, Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > Greetings-- > > > In a message dated 3/6/2004 4:08:41 PM Central Standard Time, > > otsisto@socket.net writes: > > I don't think you can smell silk 5 feet away unless your downwind from > > the person and you know what sweated in silk smells like. :P > > I sure can, particularly if it's silk noile, no sweat required, and > probably from 10 feet. I remember freaking out some friends while we were > in Target and wandering into the clothing department by suddenly sniffing > the air and saying "I smell silk!" They thought I was nuts, but I was > right.... Noil *does* tend to stink to high heaven, but I haven't noticed any smell in other forms of silk. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 12:49:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27HnWSd009894 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:49:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27Hn3cP018648; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:49:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27Hmttb064887; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:48:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27Hmntc064832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:48:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i27HmbPV023728 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:48:37 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 12:48:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <404B607E.20204@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 12:48:46 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks or Snacks References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > It was so wonderful when it turned from the negativity of Snark to Snack At the Tate gallery (I think) in London, I saw a keen renaissance art form which really should be revived -- portraits of people done in colored beeswax, like super-fine fimo or something; built up on a flesh colored base, faces finely modelled, then the clothing put on in different colors, pearls, etc. They were maybe 3" high overall, low relief on a plaque. Not only would this be a neat A&S project, but you could also do them of marzipan -- Garb Snacks as discussed! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Oh, and while we're at it, God also really hates shrimp. Maybe you didn't know. Shrimp are evil, as are all shrimp eaters. Clams, too. Hey, it's in the Bible. You can look it up. -- Mark Morford _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 13:49:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27IndSd010280 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:49:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27ImxcP021233; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:48:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27Imvtb092846; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:48:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback-mx1.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@fallback-mx1.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.95]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27Imhtb092746 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:48:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from athurman@cybergal.com) Received: from mail7.atl.registeredsite.com (mail7.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.81]) by fallback-mx1.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i27IQjcZ011773 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:26:45 -0500 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) by mail7.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i27IQimE002768 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:26:44 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.34.246]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 12:26:42 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:26:36 -0500 Message-ID: <055901c40471$ba62cff0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Rcpt-To: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: manly men in tights X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know I'm coming in late to this thread, but I had to say: I think it's a damnable pity how few guys take the chance to wear period garb. While a guy with nice legs is quite appealing in a kilt, it would be nice to see some variety. I find it helps if you give a guy a weapon - even the most squeamish will dress in full Cavalier kit with lace and floppy hat if they're allowed to carry a sword ;) Also remind them "chicks dig it"! Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 14:12:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27JCWSd010382 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:12:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27JBrcP022539; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:11:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27JBptb004231; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:11:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27JBktb004131 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:11:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7290442615 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:25:43 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <404B75F8.2050206@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 13:20:24 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: manly men in tights References: <055901c40471$ba62cff0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> In-Reply-To: <055901c40471$ba62cff0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A.Thurman wrote: > > Also remind them "chicks dig it"! After talking to some of my male friends I think the main issue is that they find it uncomfortable. Not necessarily that the clothing fits badly, but that the style is so different, the short pants, the foofy sleeves, or the skirts and hose, and out of respect for the costumer's work they are afraid of ruining it. And they don't like fiddling with layers, especially in later period clothing. My husband absolutely HATES period closures. I'm making stuff with hidden snaps now because he will not do ties. The guys I know are not so much afraid of what people think about them in costume, or unable to get good costumes, they'd just much rather be outdoors in jeans. Secondarily, most of the single guys I know want chicks to dig them for who they are everyday, not because they dressed up in a costume. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 14:14:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27JEwSd010389 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:14:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27JENcP022716; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:14:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27JEMtb005512; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:14:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27JEGtb005464 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:14:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B03j2-0009ky-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 19:14:12 +0000 Message-ID: <5Q18EIKnBPSAJwlS@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:25:59 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carmelite Habit References: <20040304234927.XPPZ3598.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost> <4.3.1.2.20040304193435.053af8f0@mail.frys.com> <002a01c40276$c7b5e680$97725651@bella> In-Reply-To: <002a01c40276$c7b5e680$97725651@bella> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There was a recent Time Team (current series) where they were excavating a Gilbertine double house, and they found a burial with pins, or maybe just the marks of where pins had been, around the skull. They were able to contact an existing convent of the same order, where the nuns still wear the same veil and could show them exactly where those pins fitted in! Jean Linda Walton wrote >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 3:36 AM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: being mistaken for a num > > >> >> A number of years ago I encountered a Carmelite nun in a craft store. I >> think they were the last to wear long Medieval-ish habits. I asked her >> about the outfit, and got lucky in having asked a nun who knew about the >> history of what she was wearing and who would answer a question or two >> about it. This must have been 30 years ago, and I don't know if >Carmelites >> still wear long habits. >> > >Two of my friends are Carmelite nuns, so I can tell you that their habit was >modernised following the order by the Second Vatican Council to all >religious orders to consider how they could renew themselves in modern >times. The Council began in 1962, but it took years for them to work >through all the work, and then the various religious orders took some time >to consider how to completely rewrite their constitutions without losing >their original spirit, so the change in dress didn't work through to the >ordinary nun until maybe the beginning of the 1970s. > >They still wear clothes which look superficially like the old habit in >length, colour and style, but now they are made from what look to me like >man-made fibres. Also, they wear modern underwear and sandals. They are >still committed to poverty, so make and mend as much as they can, and are >always grateful for Christmas presents of things like a warm vest or packets >of pop-socks. (Pop-socks - is this an English term? - they look like nylon >stockings but only reach to somewhere between ankle and knee.) > >If anyone is really interested, I could write to ask for more information. >There are still nuns alive who can tell you all about the details of their >old clothing and how it was worn, which was often preserved in every detail >from the day their order was founded. That includes everything from woollen >hose and early Medieval underwear to pinned-on sleeves and complicated >head-dresses. It seems to me that these nuns are a great resource for >anyone who wants to research the costume of the particular time and place of >the founders - but a resource which will soon be lost forever. > >Linda Walton, >(in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.). > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 14:41:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27Jf2Sd010637 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:41:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27JeHcP024314; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:40:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27JeDtb018183; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:40:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27Je9tb018098 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:40:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 13:40:03 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Beta Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 13:39:52 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Real Men and Tights X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is a fairly large renfaire in my area and we are lucky to have 2 costume merchants who both make very good tights, complete with 'real' (ie; working) codpieces. The current Entertainment Director for the faire insists on most of the male members of the scenario cast (royal court with a plot) wear doublets and tights, no pants. Fortunately most of these roles involve swordfighting and so had a macho appeal. The admiration most of these guys received later in their tights sealed the deal :). And it was a good thing the tights had codpieces to preserve some period elements since the ED would not allow 'real' codpieces on those characters that were allowed to wear pants or Tudor skirted doublets. I knew I had been working with these costumes too long when I started to think of King Henry VIII as looking normal without a codpiece!!! Faire had a 'Mr. Romance' competition last year that all the men in the court are required to participate in. During part of the competition they have to pose in just their tights :). I guess it was pretty popular as it will be back this year. Catherine who occasionally works at T'gers and gets to help fit tights on mundanes :) :) :) :). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 15:06:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27K68Sd010727 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:06:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27K5RcP025342; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:05:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27K5Otb030213; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:05:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27K5Itb030169 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:05:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.232]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B02QV-00057I-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 09:50:59 -0800 Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B02QT-0000gx-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 09:50:58 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:51:26 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c4046c$d05e3330$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] FW: Replica Dress hooks available... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi guys, since our list doesn't support posting pictures and my website will be down for (a long) time, I thought I would let you know that there are pictures posted to the yahoo groups below. I know many of you are on several. If you can't view them for some reason there ,and are still interested, please contact me off list and I will send you the photos. Sg -----Original Message----- From: Saragrace T. Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 10:35 AM To: 'TheTailor@renaissancetailor.com'; 'thefrazzledfrau@yahoogroups.com'; 'GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com' Subject: Replica Dress hooks available... Hi guys, sorry for any cross posting. I have had many inquiries regarding this, so I thought I would share with you and hope that this isn't taken as a blatant promotion. I had a replica of an actual dress hook made for the folks in my Flemish class by a very nice and very talented fellow in Germany. His website is here: http://www.hr-replikate.de/ They may not actually be up on the website, but they look like they will cost about 5.5 Euros plus shipping. I have included a picture of the original (it is the dress hook on the right) and the replica itself. He does very nice work and is a super nice fellow. His English is excellent but he is happy to converse with you in his native language if you so desire. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 15:26:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27KQRSd010806 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:26:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27KPpcP026414; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:25:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27KPjtb040085; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:25:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i27KPftb040049 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:25:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sarah@modehistorique.com) Received: from unknown (HELO modehistorique.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@68.125.99.39 with plain) by smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2004 20:19:00 -0000 Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:18:50 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <004c01c40403$1ade5d50$cb388b3f@39jz301> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Silk Smells, was RE: Garb Snarks or Snacks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I sure can, particularly if it's silk noile, no sweat required, and > probably > from 10 feet. I remember freaking out some friends while we were in > Target > and wandering into the clothing department by suddenly sniffing the > air and > saying "I smell silk!" They thought I was nuts, but I was right.... I can tell the smell of silk noile and duipioni (very distinctive) from quite a distance as well. Silk satin doesn't seem to have that much of a smell, though. Sarah http://www.modehistorique.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 16:05:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27L5RSd010946 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:05:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27L4kcP028220; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:04:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27L4dtb058689; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:04:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27L4ctb058674 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:04:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Camelothorse@earthlink.net) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i27KiPZ24388 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:44:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-67.74.143.193.dial1.houston1.level3.net ([67.74.143.193] helo=diane) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B0583-0000qN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 12:44:10 -0800 Message-ID: <029001c40484$f79ef340$e6834a43@diane> From: "Diane Maynard" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20040306160625.05a52c60@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040306220150.05f87eb0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Braveheart vs. Errol Flynn Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:44:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Delurking for this------Errol Flynn----On the other hand, I would delurk or WHATEVER for Errol Flynn. Let's face it, This is a man that looked SEXY in whatever he wore ( or better yet didn't wear !) Errol Flynn, Clark Gable, Sean Connery, a few others-----Put them in ANYTHING and I would still drool. When someone knows who and what they are, they can carry off wearing any period of clothing and look great. Henry the 8 th would have been an imposing man in today's clothing. Designer suit of silk, custom fitted, loads of money, and his bearing would get him ANY wife he wanted. He just would not have had as much trouble getting his divorces and no doubt, with his wealth, would have had a great attorney drawing up his pre-nuptial agreements. Let's face it, even Prince Charles and Princess Diana were able to get a divorce without someone being beheaded or locked in the tower in this generation. Diane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Braveheart vs. Errol Flynn > > >But in Braveheart the men could be crude, show their arse to the enemy all > >that rip roarin' fighters stuff. Errol Flynn on the other hand shows a golly > >ol" good time. Not really blood an guts. > > > >Though many of the Errol Flynn and the like type movies did inspired many a > >young woman to want to wear the fairytale dresses though they were not > >necessarily period. > > I think we were talking abut sexy historical costumes. When Errol Flynn > was acting in those films, he was sexy-looking for the period, and a lot of > what he wore is still sexy today. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 17:07:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27M7pSd011144 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:07:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27M7AcP000826; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:07:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27M78tb088601; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:07:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out008.verizon.net (out008pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27M74tb088581 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:07:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([162.84.114.15]) by out008.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040307215925.XXFJ27801.out008.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:59:25 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Braveheart vs. Errol Flynn Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:59:20 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <32.44fa8df3.2d7c9014@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out008.verizon.net from [162.84.114.15] at Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:59:22 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Yes, but at the time, every other man walking around was wearing the same > thing and there had not yet been spoof films made intimating that > they might be a > little light in the loafers for doing so. > That's what I meant by "gutless". I mean the same way as "secure in masculinity" is used. These men are "scared" that some one will think them "light in the loafers" because of what they wear? Gutless! > I don't think it's *just* a matter of gutlessness, I think to a certain > extent it's about comfort as well. I've personally never worn a > pair of slops and > some knitted stockings, but you'd have to shanghai me to get me > to do so to an > outdoor faire in 90 degree heat. The huge advantage to wearing > an admittedly > un-period hoop skirt under my skirts (rather than layers and layers of > petticoats) is that it provides central air conditioning. If I > were a guy, I'd > probably view kilts the same way. > > -Tiff It is really not so difficult. (Though I agree that many assume it is) Several men in fact are doing this very thing. (or at least were when I was) When I was in St George's for the faires in California that sort of weather was not unusual and most of the men of the guild wore what you describe. Some of the gentry and most of the servants did not. Most cheated on the hose wearing tights instead. That was for ease of purchase rather than comfort however. Frankly what I wear every July for work is far warmer and the heat index here thanks to the humidity is usually worse than Devore ever was. (and Devore was worse than Agoura). The uniform I have to wear in July consists of wool broadcloth small clothes (in the period that means waistcoat and breeches, I only mention that because apparently to some smallclothes are underwear). At least the small clothes are white. A red double breasted regimental coat in broadcloth, a wig mad of yak hair. Leather gloves (they should be kid but they are not Military cocked hat (blocked from a caster blank, I believe in this case rabbit. A small sword (but that doesn't really effect the heat) cotton knit stockings (should probably be wool or silk, but cotton is not impossible) and riding boots. The whole time I get the pleasure of having all sorts of verbal abuse sent my way (though that part is can be fun though). There is no need for tights by the Elizabethan period anyway (or full hosen either). (Our Faire was based in that period, although referred to as Renaissance). You only need hose tall enough to reach high enough into your trunk hose, canions, or whatever. By that period there is usually another garment covering the ...uh...er.. lap area. 'fraid that hides part of what you women hoped to see however! ;). Frankly when I still wore tights something in that area was where most of my discomfort arose from! It also allows you to use better materials. Men's tights are usually horrible manmade materials which do not breath. (Limited colors as well). Great kilts (even proper wool ones ;) ) can be cooler temperature wise. At least they are when the drape is left down (my favorite look as well) and when you move them back and forth to create a breeze. Left to their own devices, hanging alongside your leg, they are not really very cool. They are in fact meant to provide the humbly with warmth! Of course that is less true of the cheaper flannel variety, and many today wear them with no upper body garment which is certainly cooler! Frankly I believe they were considered more manly even before Brave heart. Amongst faire and the SCA kilts have long seemed to have been admired as manly, though less so in normal society. I do Scottish Country Dance and spend a bit of time in modern kilts (and often wear jacobite stuff to highland games (err real Jacobite stuff rather than the strange waistcoats and polyester thong tied shirts sold as jacobite. I was just starting to reenact the period when I moved out here. R. Carnegie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 17:36:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27MaOSd011258 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:36:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27MZJcP002360; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:35:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27MZFtb002172; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:35:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27MZCtb002127 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:35:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B06rV-0004mT-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 22:35:09 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:23:31 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Carmelite Habit References: <4.3.1.2.20040304193435.053af8f0@mail.frys.com> <002a01c40276$c7b5e680$97725651@bella> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chris Laning wrote >At 5:57 AM +0000 3/5/04, Linda Walton wrote: >>If anyone is really interested, I could write to ask for more information. >>There are still nuns alive who can tell you all about the details of their >>old clothing and how it was worn, which was often preserved in every detail >>from the day their order was founded. That includes everything from woollen >>hose and early Medieval underwear to pinned-on sleeves and complicated >>head-dresses. It seems to me that these nuns are a great resource for >>anyone who wants to research the costume of the particular time and place of >>the founders - but a resource which will soon be lost forever. > >I'd encourage some caution, though. It's good that you've found some >nuns who are genuinely well educated about the subject, but few monks >or nuns are costume experts. The idea that religious clothing is >_completely_ unchanged from the date of the Order's founding is >commonly believed, especially by members of a group who were told this >in their novitiate years, but it's not necessarily true, and deserves >to be tested against other contemporary evidence like any other >hypothesis. For instance, there are surviving 13th-century habits that >belonged to St. Francis of Assisi and St. Antony of Padua, and a mantle >that belonged to St. Clare, which can yield a good deal of information >about the original clothing of the Franciscan Orders at least. > >It's interesting that Orders with origins in the 16th century and >earlier (like the Carmelites) tend to have relatively simple clothing. >The Poor Clares and some Benedictines also are still wearing >essentially T-tunics, wimples, and unstarched veils. In my experience, >the elaborate headdresses that many groups of nuns wore before Vatican >II tend to belong to the multitudes of teaching and nursing orders that >were founded in the 18th and 19th centuries, derived from the elaborate >"peasant" costumes worn by many ethnic communities in Europe at the time. > >I know there are a few people around who are studying monastic >clothing, but it's an area where not a lot of solid research has been >done, or at least where it's not yet made its way into common discussion. On the other hand, religious Orders are the kind of place where old records are kept forever. Certainly some convent/museums I have visited have either the written description of what the members are to wear, or actual models of the clothing so that future generations would not wander from teh original intention, and pictures of former Superiors, so you can find out whether the current habit is the same as the original. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 17:59:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27MxhSd011338 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:59:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27Mx6cP003275; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:59:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27Mx3tb013309; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:59:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tmailb1.svr.pol.co.uk (tmailb1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.168.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27Mwxtb013269 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:59:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hbgd103@soton.ac.uk) Received: from modem-919.beedrill.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.135.35.151] helo=soton.ac.uk) by tmailb1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1B07EQ-0005Tw-7k for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 22:58:50 +0000 Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:59:34 +0000 Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Hilary Davidson To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200403070614.i276E6te071585@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <19C5F0A7-708B-11D8-998C-000A9567E116@soton.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The killer is when they've figured out that late period is both manly > and a babe magnet, and accessorise said tights/hose/etc with a pair of > thigh high boots.... Fell for one of them once, with disastrous > results, when all I really wanted was his boots. I got my own pair, > went Bobbing, and was much better off. Still, if Errol Flynn ever > stopped by...sigh... >> Many men don't consider late period noblemen outfits to be manly, nor >> do >> they consider the outfits to be "babe" magnets. This type of thinking >> is >> usually found more among the younger men then the older more secure >> men. > > I think some men just still don't understand what women find > attractive... > Nice clothes are always good, especially if they show off your butt. > Daring > is good too, > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 18:33:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27NWxSd011437 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:32:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27NWHcP005076; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:32:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27NWFtb029094; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:32:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27NWAtb029053 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:32:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-236-91.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.236.91]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27NW8rB006905 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:32:08 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040307151636.05aa78e0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:20:02 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) In-Reply-To: <20040307151507.88797.qmail@web12908.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200403070614.i276E8tb071609@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >*giggles madly* I am in the planning stages of reproducing the Sture >garments. The codpieces are for all intents and purposes big floofy bows >of fabric.... the guy I am making it for has enough of a demented sense of >humour to appreciate the notion of having a squeeky toy buried in the bows >of the codpiece... >I'm still giggling over the idea!!! Thanks! > >Kathy > > >I just can't understand why they won't wear the cute red heart codpiece with >the squeaker in it. :) The Landsknecht codpiece is actually hollow under all those floofy bows, as Janet Arnold will tell you. But there's plenty of room for a squeaky toy inside, as I found out perhaps 20 years ago. I was wearing my cross-dressing Landsknecht outfit, and some wench came wriggling up to the gent in question and gave what she knew was there a squeeze. I almost lost my glued-on moustache I laughed so hard. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 18:41:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27Nf1Sd011453 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:41:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27NeOcP005525; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:40:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27NeMtb032988; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:40:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27NeItb032940 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:40:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.228]) by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (v93.12) with ESMTP id RELAYIN8-9404bb2d61fa; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 18:40:06 -0500 Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.1e.245c60bf (17377) for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:34:51 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1e.245c60bf.2d7d0b9b@aol.com> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:34:51 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Smells, was RE: Garb Snarks or Snacks To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/7/2004 3:26:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, sarah@modehistorique.com writes: I can tell the smell of silk noile and duipioni (very distinctive) from quite a distance as well. Silk satin doesn't seem to have that much of a smell, though. I think that is because what you are smelling is the gum that holds the threads together, and more of it is removed for the finer silks than the rougher ones. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 18:53:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27NrMSd011478 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:53:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27NqgcP006172; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:52:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27Nqftb038629; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:52:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i27Nqatb038573 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:52:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.dd.51da19b (17377) for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:52:27 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:52:27 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Turkey Red fabrics To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/6/2004 10:37:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, kayta@frys.com writes: These were exactly what I was looking for, so of course they're likely 'out of print'. OTOH, I may just block print my own - some of the really simple original stuff I've seen is no better than I could do. And it's just for lining so it doesn't have to be perfect. It is frustrating to find good prints that are appropriate for the early 19th century. I'll look and look and one will be okay, except for the shaded background, and one has one really off color in the print, and so it goes. I did find the one below at the store where I bought my sewing machine. They carry the yellow with red and green with black. I think the red with black could be okay, too, and maybe the black ground one. I haven't seen any other of the Michael Miller prints that seem appropriate, but I haven't been through them all. http://www.michaelmillerfabrics.com/collections/search_results.asp?page=1&Grou p_Name=Sprigs If one is doing a slightly later interpretation, Old Sturbridge Village came out with a line a few years ago--these would be circa 1830s and I'm not sure if they are still available, either. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 19:33:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i280X9Sd011617 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:33:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i280WPcP008269; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:32:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i280WJtb057373; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:32:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i280WBtb057312 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:32:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a240.in-tch.com [66.62.107.40]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i2809Ms23224 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:09:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <404BBFCF.9020901@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 17:35:27 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: manly men in tights References: <055901c40471$ba62cff0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> <404B75F8.2050206@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <404B75F8.2050206@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, but that's true as well for the single women I know, and we still seem to be pressured into dressing up more (makeup, hairstyles, restrictive shoe styles, etc.) to be thought attractive to *men.* (I'm equating some types of modern women's clothing with "costume" in this case.) I personally like to -uhm- watch guys who are comfortable with what they're wearing, whether that's something more formal and restrictive (Bjarne looks awfully good in his suits), or something less fragile--some men I know look awfully nice in a well-fitted tunic and trews! Or Cavalier, with all the lace. Or a nice cotehardie and hose. Or a nice pair of levi's. (yummmm! cowboys and chaps! ;o) --sue, going away before she starts drooling on the keyboard.... Dawn wrote: > The guys I know are not so much afraid of what people think about them > in costume, or unable to get good costumes, they'd just much rather be > outdoors in jeans. > > Secondarily, most of the single guys I know want chicks to dig them for > who they are everyday, not because they dressed up in a costume. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 19:52:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i280qHSd011665 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:52:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i280pZcP009078; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:51:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i280pYtb067755; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:51:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop2a.ripco.com (root@pop2a.ripco.com [209.100.227.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i280pUtb067736 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:51:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zski@ripco.com) Received: from ripco.com (tcr91.dynip.ripco.net [209.100.226.91]) by pop2a.ripco.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i280pRGp000624 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:51:28 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <404BC385.5030209@ripco.com> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 18:51:17 -0600 From: zski User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200403072353.i27NrFtd038883@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: codpiece fun X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just can't understand why they won't wear the cute red heart codpiece with >the squeaker in it. :) --------------------- One of the fops at MiRF two years ago had a vibrating codpiece, with a little string hanging out that you can pull to make it go "buzz". Last year, he did a design of filigree brass pieces on his now codpiece, so he had a "heart-on". (say it out loud). Another had his sculpted like a little peacoock's head, somplete with beak and feathers. The third was feeling left out, so one day he tied one of Her Majesty's extra sleeves to the front of his pants. And then there is the rogue who keeps his pocket-watch in there.... Wendy Z Missing MiRF already _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 20:13:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i281DhSd011731 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:13:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i281D4cP010175; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:13:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i281D2tb077649; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:13:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i281Cwtb077626 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:12:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2811XD13517 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:01:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from 209-165-47-203.jps.net ([209.165.47.203]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B0999-0002GB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 20:01:32 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040306082110.021d2800@pop.radiks.net> References: <200403051507.i25F7HEb010685@net.indra.com> <6.0.1.1.2.20040306082110.021d2800@pop.radiks.net> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:21:12 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Nun's Habits X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 8:29 AM -0600 3/6/04, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: >The only book I have found on the subject is "The Habit: A History >of the Clothing of Catholic Nuns" by Elizabeth Kuhns, published by >Doubleday. There are a couple of paper doll books available; but >they are only pictures with minimal information. There hasn't been as much research done on monastic clothing (especially women's) as I would like to see, and I'm not really in a position to be able to do much with primary sources myself. I do know a couple of people who are working in this area, one of whom (Susan Carroll-Clark) I know is on this list. The other people I know of are Thomas Izbicki at Johns Hopkins University (though I don't know what he's published), Desiree Koslin, and Cordelia Warr. Both of the latter have written PhD dissertations and various articles on the subject. Here's what I've been able to find: Desiree Koslin's PhD dissertation was on _The Dress of Monastic & Religious Women as seen in Art from the Early Middle Ages to the Reformation_. I was able to get a copy of this through UMI Dissertation Services (it's UMI #9917057), who have this and many other theses and dissertations on microfilm, and will print and send a paper copy for (I think it was) something like $35. They are at http://www.bellhowell.infolearning.com/hp/Products/Dissertations.html It's basically a photocopy of a microfilm, so many of the illustrations are black smears, but she gives the sources, so a dedicated person could probably track down many of them. I've also been told (haven't looked it up yet) that Cordelia Warr wrote a very interesting art history Phd for Warwick University in which she looked at Clarissan habits in detail: Female Patronage and Female Spirituality in Italian Art (1994). That one doesn't seem to be at UMI. There's a profile of her at http://www.art.man.ac.uk/ARTHIST/profiles/warr.html and an article of hers, "The Striped Mantle of the Poor Clares: Image and text in Italy in the Later Middle Ages," is in _Arte Cristiana_ 86 (1998) 415-430. It's a subject that doesn't seem to have made it into the non-academic literature yet. (Hey Susan, want to write a book?) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 20:14:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i281EFSd011735 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:14:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i281DbcP010238; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:13:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i281Datb077916; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:13:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i281DUtb077873 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:13:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kerowyn@mindspring.com) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i280vXe03333 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:57:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from dialup-171.75.245.137.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([171.75.245.137] helo=Dan) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B095H-0003o5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 19:57:32 -0500 Message-ID: <01f901c404a8$c0931ce0$89f54bab@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Real Men and Tights/codpieces Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:00:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Speaking of which, check the Costume Con website for the codpiece contest at CC16. I think there are pics. There was even a cod with a piece(small automatic) in the doll show. :-) Snow fallen on snow, and this evening, the full moon of November Basho ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 1:39 PM Subject: [h-cost] Real Men and Tights > There is a fairly large renfaire in my area and we are lucky to have 2 > costume merchants who both make very good tights, complete with 'real' > (ie; working) codpieces. The current Entertainment Director for the > faire insists on most of the male members of the scenario cast (royal > court with a plot) wear doublets and tights, no pants. Fortunately most > of these roles involve swordfighting and so had a macho appeal. The > admiration most of these guys received later in their tights sealed the > deal :). > > And it was a good thing the tights had codpieces to preserve some period > elements since the ED would not allow 'real' codpieces on those > characters that were allowed to wear pants or Tudor skirted doublets. I > knew I had been working with these costumes too long when I started to > think of King Henry VIII as looking normal without a codpiece!!! > > Faire had a 'Mr. Romance' competition last year that all the men in the > court are required to participate in. During part of the competition > they have to pose in just their tights :). I guess it was pretty > popular as it will be back this year. > > Catherine > who occasionally works at T'gers and gets to help fit tights on mundanes > :) :) :) :). > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 20:38:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i281cMSd011801 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:38:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i281becP011843; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:37:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i281bYtb089325; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:37:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i281bUtb089303 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:37:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i281XMD27387 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:33:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from 209-165-57-161.jps.net ([209.165.57.161]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B09dw-0006Mo-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 20:33:20 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:28:39 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: RE: [h-cost] Braveheart vs. Errol Flynn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 4:59 PM -0500 3/7/04, Ron Carnegie wrote: > Great kilts (even proper wool ones ;) ) can be cooler temperature wise. >At least they are when the drape is left down (my favorite look as well) and >when you move them back and forth to create a breeze. Left to their own >devices, hanging alongside your leg, they are not really very cool. I've always wondered about the guys who want to wear a "great kilt" with no shirt nor anything else on the upper part of their bodies. What the heck do they think they're going to pin the drape to? Ouch!!!! -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 21:05:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28254Sd011890 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:05:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2824OcP013181; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:04:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2824Ltb001358; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:04:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2824Jtb001297 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:04:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from 39jz301 ([63.139.56.203]) by fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040308020406.GBYQ411419.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:04:06 -0500 Message-ID: <008401c404b1$a9987540$cb388b3f@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1e.245c60bf.2d7d0b9b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Smells, was RE: Garb Snarks or Snacks Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:04:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [63.139.56.203] using ID at Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:04:06 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > I can tell the smell of silk noile and duipioni (very distinctive) from > quite a distance as well. Silk satin doesn't seem to have that much of > a smell, though. > I think that is because what you are smelling is the gum that holds the > threads together, and more of it is removed for the finer silks than the rougher I was told once that it was silkworm spit :-) Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 21:59:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i282xBSd012041 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:59:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i282wUcP016128; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:58:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i282wNtb021869; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:58:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i282wLtb021858 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:58:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sarah@modehistorique.com) Received: from unknown (HELO modehistorique.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@68.125.99.39 with plain) by smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2004 02:58:21 -0000 Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:58:10 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Smells, was RE: Garb Snarks or Snacks Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <008401c404b1$a9987540$cb388b3f@39jz301> Message-Id: <6EF11219-70AC-11D8-A4FB-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> I can tell the smell of silk noile and duipioni (very distinctive) >> from >> quite a distance as well. Silk satin doesn't seem to have that much >> of >> a smell, though. >> I think that is because what you are smelling is the gum that holds >> the >> threads together, and more of it is removed for the finer silks than >> the > rougher > > I was told once that it was silkworm spit :-) I agree. Of course, to be fair, there usually is a lot of sizing put into duipioni and shantung, but the smell is still there even after the fabric has been washed. Sarah http://www.modehistorique.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 22:09:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2839vSd012073 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:09:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2839LcP016904; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:09:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2839Itb027037; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:09:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2839Atb026962 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:09:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OqDwxv9lVfVuC4HJEUw8/Bc=">; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 19:08:09 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JP6V5GSA; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 19:08:09 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:06:46 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Braveheart vs. Errol Flynn Message-ID: <20040307.190740.912.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-32 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If we're thinking the same thing, they don't pin the top portion of the great kilt save to itself, and those who wear a skirt pin just pin it to the outer flap of the skirt to keep it from flapping--it's a fancy weight. Arlys On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:28:39 -0800 Chris Laning writes: > At 4:59 PM -0500 3/7/04, Ron Carnegie wrote: > > Great kilts (even proper wool ones ;) ) can be cooler > temperature wise. > >At least they are when the drape is left down (my favorite look as > well) and > >when you move them back and forth to create a breeze. Left to > their own > >devices, hanging alongside your leg, they are not really very cool. > > I've always wondered about the guys who want to wear a "great kilt" > with no shirt nor anything else on the upper part of their bodies. > > What the heck do they think they're going to pin the drape to? > Ouch!!!! > -- > _________________________________________________________ > O Chris Laning > | > + Davis, California > _________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 23:13:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i284DNSd012226 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 23:13:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i284CbcP020831; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:12:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i284CUtb056954; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:12:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i284CQtb056931 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:12:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B1D1D4C5 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:12:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p398.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.144]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1DFD8D4B1 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:12:24 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Silk Smells, was RE: Garb Snarks or Snacks Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:12:36 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <008401c404b1$a9987540$cb388b3f@39jz301> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, so thats why it slids over the body. :) De -----Original Message----- I was told once that it was silkworm spit :-) Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 23:23:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i284NBSd012272 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 23:23:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i284MWcP021261; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:22:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i284MVtb061674; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:22:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i284MRtb061657 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:22:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0A771D4D4 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:22:26 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p398.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.144]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E4600D4B0 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:22:25 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Braveheart vs. Errol Flynn Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:22:38 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh my, just had a picture of a punk Scot. and nipple piercing. De -----Original Message----- What the heck do they think they're going to pin the drape to? Ouch!!!! -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 7 23:53:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i284r5Sd012345 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 23:53:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i284qOcP022338; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:52:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i284qMtb075354; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:52:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i284qGtb075320 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:52:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42BFA1D584 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:52:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p398.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.144]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 164CED411 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:52:15 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: manly men in tights Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:52:27 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <055901c40471$ba62cff0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry I have to say this.. So the extra sword is in case the first one isn't as impressive. :P De So many puns screaming to come out....must restrain self. -----Original Message----- I find it helps if you give a guy a weapon - even the most squeamish will dress in full Cavalier kit with lace and floppy hat if they're allowed to carry a sword ;) Also remind them "chicks dig it"! Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 04:21:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i289L8Sd006699 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 04:21:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i289KHcP003324; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 02:20:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i289K3tb093724; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 02:20:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i289Jstb093558 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 02:19:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i289JcT02924.; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:19:38 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:19:38 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:19:13 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> otsisto@socket.net 06/03/04 09:27:07 >>> wrote: >I have noticed though that a man in a late period outfit is usually >considered: >A. Gay >B. Married >C. Going to be married >.D. Momma sewed it. When you say "late period", do you mean the later part of the period the SCA do? (Don't forget a lot of folks on this list are not SCA members.)_ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 09:54:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28EsmSd007941 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:54:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28ErpcP017764; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:53:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28EqUtb037934; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:52:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28EqKtb037858 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:52:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f26.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.38]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E3D9D5EE03F for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:52:15 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001401c4051c$f463c960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:52:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] waistcoat finished X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i28EsmSd007941 Status: RO Oh my, just cut down my waistcoat from the frame. I did it! So i will be able to have it finished for thursday when i go to the gustavians. Jahu................. rushing out to buy some sewing silk and buttonhole silk two.............. 40 meters of silk ribbon for this waistcoat in 4 colours. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 09:56:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28EuhSd007949 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:56:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28Eu4cP017885; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:56:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28Esqtb039163; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:54:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i28EsHtb038888 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:54:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040308145414.90516.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 14:54:14 GMT Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:54:14 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] KILTS X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Even that may be changing with the advent of the "utilikilt". This weekend I saw all sorts of men in "Utilikilts, tee-shirts and sneakers. Black and khaki seemed to be more popular than camo. "Frankly I believe they were considered more manly even before Brave heart. Amongst faire and the SCA kilts have long seemed to have been admired as manly, though less so in normal society. " ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 10:14:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28FEoSd008003 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:14:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28FE6cP019398; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:14:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28FE2tb050432; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:14:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14002.mail.yahoo.com (web14002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i28FDutb050368 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:13:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040308150708.89235.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:07:08 GMT Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:07:08 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <404B75F8.2050206@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] male costuming was Re: manly men in tights X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I spent 6 months on a 14th century outfit for my husband. He requested it for a court outfit. He was much happier with it once he figured out how to get in and out of it by opening only 8 out of 62 buttons. > > After talking to some of my male friends I think the > main issue is that > they find it uncomfortable. Not necessarily that the > clothing fits > badly, but that the style is so different, the short > pants, the foofy > sleeves, or the skirts and hose, and out of respect > for the costumer's > work they are afraid of ruining it. And they don't > like fiddling with > layers, especially in later period clothing. My > husband absolutely HATES > period closures. I'm making stuff with hidden snaps > now because he will > not do ties. > ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 11:12:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28GCRSd008236 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:12:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28GBgcP024685; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:11:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28GBZtb089845; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:11:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14005.mail.yahoo.com (web14005.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i28GBUtb089798 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:11:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040308161129.96509.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 16:11:29 GMT Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:11:29 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoat finished To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001401c4051c$f463c960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It sounds so wonderful. We need pics of the event. --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Oh my, just cut down my waistcoat from the frame. I > did it! > So i will be able to have it finished for thursday > when i go to the gustavians. > Jahu................. rushing out to buy some sewing > silk and buttonhole silk two.............. > 40 meters of silk ribbon for this waistcoat in 4 > colours. > Bjarne > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 11:16:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28GGMSd008273 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:16:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28GFhcP025192; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:15:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28GFdtb092877; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:15:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28GFVtb092713 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:15:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.8d.539a5a2 (14374) for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:15:24 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <8d.539a5a2.2d7df61c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:15:24 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] KILTS To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Speaking of kilts.... I'm getting ready to make one for a friend. Although I'm going to follow the proper procedure and make a "real" kilt....construction-wise....the wool is not really a tartan. It's an even plaid [looks good though....grey and brown-orange on black....the client chose it.] Anyway....the guy I'm making it for wants to be butch [Good luck! Did I say that???] and hates the socks. I told him he'd have to wear them. But then I started thinking.... What about boots...like riding boots. But would one wear a kilt riding? Do you have to ride side saddle in a kilt? "Shouldn't be riding astride with his kilt all flying up. "Tain't fittin' Jess t'ain't fittin'" OK...I'm kidding. But can one don boots with their kilt? I also thought gaiters. Not short white ones but more like military ones from the 18th or early 19th century [in a brown or natural duck] that come to or above the knee. The socks would be underneath them I assume...and could roll down over the top of knee high gaiters. But with lots of pewter buttons could look more butch than just socks. Are we straying too far from the correct path? He's not to look formal in any way. We've got a plain leather sporran and he's just wearing an early 19th century linen shirt. The guy's a big hairy bear and in truth would look butch in a tutu....but we aim to please the clientele. What about a hat? Is there anything broad brimmed that would work and, again, not be too off the mark? The idea is he's the hairy romance-novel-cover Pict of your dreams emerging from the forest to ravage you..... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 11:58:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28GwQSd008503 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:58:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28GvhcP000291; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:57:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28Gvctb024532; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:57:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m19.mx.aol.com (imo-m19.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28GvWtb024387 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:57:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.157.2f8036d2 (17228) for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:51:56 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <157.2f8036d2.2d7dfeac@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:51:56 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] KILTS To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/8/2004 10:16:21 AM Central Standard Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: Are we straying too far from the correct path? He's not to look formal in any way. My suggestion would be to see if he'll go with something like this: http://www.medievalmoccasins.com/cgi-bin/store/perlshop.cgi?ACTION=thispage&th ispage=TB.html&ORDER_ID=122873624 If the link doesn't work, it's Medieval Moccasins' tall boot style. They look great with kilts, without going so far as actual high boots - a lot of "Scots" have found them a good middle ground between "butch" and "goofy". They ain't cheap but I have a pair of med mocs that I've been wearing to faire for 4 straight years now, and they're still in phenominal shape. These people are the absolute nicest in the world, and their quality and customer service can't be beat. -Tiff _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 12:11:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28HB3Sd008580 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:11:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28HA6cP002000; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:10:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28HA4tb034645; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:10:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28H9wtc034556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:09:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i28H9iPV032539 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:09:44 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 12:09:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <404CA8E2.6070704@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 12:09:54 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Machine needle question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Aside from skipped stitches or pulled fabric threads while stitching, is there a generally-accepted way to tell if you need to change the needle on your sewing machine? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent From LoTR, the movie EE: Legolas: Lembas! One bite will fill a man's stomach! Pippin, to Merry: How many did *you* eat? Merry, whimpering: ... four... (belch) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 12:36:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28HaVSd008648 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:36:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28HZccP004884; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:35:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28HZYtb054794; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:35:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28HZUtb054669 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:35:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BE9742615 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:49:29 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <404CB0F0.8070709@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 11:44:16 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Machine needle question References: <404CA8E2.6070704@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <404CA8E2.6070704@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Aside from skipped stitches or pulled fabric threads while stitching, is > there a generally-accepted way to tell if you need to change the needle > on your sewing machine? > I change needles if I am using particularly heavy or delicate fabrics. I don't want to wait for pulls in sheer fabric to tell me the needle needs changing, and it is easier to get through heavy fabric with a fresh needle. I change needles for a new costume project. I finished a wool overgown for my husband last month, and it was a lot of sewing, so I will put a fresh needle in before I start the next big project. I'll also clean out the bobbin track. If I was quilting I would change the needle before starting a new quilt top. Needles are cheap. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 12:37:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28HbPSd008655 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:37:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28HaecP005054; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:36:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28Habtb055603; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:36:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i28HaXtb055555 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:36:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040308173632.90143.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:36:32 PST Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:36:32 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <00ce01c4045e$cd999d50$bae34a43@HELENPINTO> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Very cute, Aidan:) I also saw a fellow a VERY long time ago --come to an SCA Court Event--at which he made a presentation to the King and Queen --dressed in this splendid outfit --with a modest codpiece.However, as he made his presentation to the new Monarchs ---they exploded into laughter --and he eventually turned around for the the rest of the audience to see--a series of little blinking lights all leading straight to an arrow pointing to the tip of his codpiece:) Albra Helen Pinto wrote: > De wrote: > Need to stop now. Too many codpiece designs are starting to run through my > head. Forget squeaky toys- I have always wanted to make a codpiece that has mechanized fish-tail sticking out the side, possibly even with a motion sensor or a small button remote so it can flap upon close inspection or in response to the "what have you got in there" question... (Answer: My cod, of course...) -Helen/Aidan (who is frequently guilty of over-engineering) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 12:55:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28HtRSd008744 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:55:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28HsYcP006974; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:54:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28HsQtb069568; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:54:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14001.mail.yahoo.com (web14001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i28HsOtb069537 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:54:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040308175422.89514.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:54:22 GMT Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:54:22 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] KILTS To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <8d.539a5a2.2d7df61c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Medieval Moccasins tall boot style. Since its loosely based on the ghillie style bog shoe, its the most likely candidate to be worn with a kilt. They did wear "loincloths", for lack of a better word, under their kilts when there was need. No same man would want his huevos hanging loose and getting scrambled on a horse's back. You can do a google for "celtic bog shoe" and come up with several references. Catalina. --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > Speaking of kilts.... > > I'm getting ready to make one for a friend. Although > I'm going to follow the > proper procedure and make a "real" > kilt....construction-wise....the wool is > not really a tartan. It's an even plaid [looks good > though....grey and > brown-orange on black....the client chose it.] > > Anyway....the guy I'm making it for wants to be > butch [Good luck! Did I say > that???] and hates the socks. I told him he'd have > to wear them. But then I > started thinking.... > > What about boots...like riding boots. But would one > wear a kilt riding? Do > you have to ride side saddle in a kilt? "Shouldn't > be riding astride with his > kilt all flying up. "Tain't fittin' Jess t'ain't > fittin'" > OK...I'm kidding. But can one don boots with their > kilt? > > I also thought gaiters. Not short white ones but > more like military ones from > the 18th or early 19th century [in a brown or > natural duck] that come to or > above the knee. The socks would be underneath them I > assume...and could roll > down over the top of knee high gaiters. But with > lots of pewter buttons could > look more butch than just socks. > > Are we straying too far from the correct path? He's > not to look formal in any > way. We've got a plain leather sporran and he's just > wearing an early 19th > century linen shirt. The guy's a big hairy bear and > in truth would look butch in > a tutu....but we aim to please the clientele. > > What about a hat? Is there anything broad brimmed > that would work and, again, > not be too off the mark? > > The idea is he's the hairy romance-novel-cover Pict > of your dreams emerging > from the forest to ravage you..... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 13:42:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28IgBSd008974 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:42:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28IencP017091; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:40:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28Ieatb009232; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:40:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pengo.systems.pipex.net (pengo.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.193]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28IdItb008126 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:39:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by pengo.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 725A54C000BC for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:39:13 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <007e01c4053c$9e9d44a0$97725651@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200403051507.i25F7HEb010685@net.indra.com><6.0.1.1.2.20040306082110.021d2800@pop.radiks.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Nun's Habits Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:38:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What I had in mind when I suggested interviewing those nuns surviving from when their Order wore its old-style habit was to treat them as primary sources. It's quite likely that they won't substitute for books of other studies, but they do have unique experiences of wearing unusual costumes, and can tell it what it was like, when and how they wore it. If some costumes can be traced back to see how close it is to the original models, and then compared with the ordinary dress of the founder's own time and place, then that should be a useful sort of academic study, I would think. What worries me is that there are fewer of these treasures left every day, and their memories don't seem to be being recorded by anyone. Linda Walton, (High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.). Just to give you a taste of what I mean, I'll paste below some extracts from the autobiography of Monica Baldwin, (1896-1975): "I Leap Over The Wall". (First published 1949 by Hamish Hamilton Ltd, London, this well-known book has been in print almost ever since it was first published - so there are still lots of copies about.) I'd be intrigued to read the reactions of those of your who know about C14 ladies-wear. Page 266 In my convent, the upward ascent began with the reception of the postulant's habit. This took place as soon as possible after one's arrival. The 'the habit' was a thick black serge gown reaching to the heels and caught in at the waist with a narrow belt of its own material. Though the sleeves were long and loose, a second pair, longer and even more enormous had to be worn over the first on Sundays and feast-days as well as whenever the postulant went to the choir or parlour. The long, black, skewer-like pins which secured them to the shoulders were concealed by one's 'kerchief' -- a large, curiously pinned-and-folded piece of thick white linen, stiffly starched and faintly suggestive of a combined helmet and cuirass. A long dark blue cotton apron was worn for going about the house and garden. Whenever the postulant went to the choir or parlour this was removed, folded carefully according to a particular method and carried in one of the vast pockets which, rather like a pair of saddle-bags, were slung beneath the habit round one's waist. The second stage was that of white-veiled novice. . . . The novice now counted as a 'religious'; the black serge gown and linen kerchief were exchanged for a white veil and habit closely resembling that worn by the nuns who had made their vows. Page 8 October 26th, 1941. My sister Freda came to fetch me away . . . The crescendo of shocks which awaited me began abruptly with my first introduction to up-to-date underwear. Frankly, I was appalled. The garments to which I was accustomed had been contrived by thorough-going ascetics in the fourteenth century, who considered that a nice, thick, long-sleeved 'shift' of rough, scratchy serge was the right thing to wear next your skin. My shifts, when new, had reached almost to my ankles. However, hard washing and much indiscriminate patching soon stiffened and shrank them until they all but stood up by themselves. Stays, shoulder-strapped and severely boned, concealed one's outline; over them, too long serge petticoats were lashed securely round one's waist. Last came the ample habit-coat of heavy cloth, topped by a linen rochet and a stiffly starched barbette of cambric, folded into a score of tiny tucks and pleats at the neck. Page 10 The worst problem was my hair. For twenty-eight years it had been cropped convict-wise beneath the incredible system of headgear exacted by the Order to which I belonged. As a foundation, a ' snood', or long narrow strip of linen, was wound two or three times round the head. Over this, a close-fitting cap -- rather like those worn by bathers -- was pulled down to the ears. A piece of fine cambric, called a 'tip', was then bound tightly across the forehead and tied at the back with strings. Next came the 'head' -- a kind of wimple -- which covered the head and ears. It was gathered in closely at the neck and then frilled out as far as the shoulders beneath the starched barbette. Over this was pinned an erection of black cashmere which fell, gable-wise, on either side of the head to just above the elbows. Between this and its lining of starched white linen was a double cardboard stiffening with strips of cotton, fortified with yet more starched. Finally, the veil proper -- of thin, black material, rather like ninon -- was mounted on the underveil and firmly secured with pins. Eight thicknesses in all! In summer it was apt to give one headache. The wonder, of course, was that, having worn it was so many years, I had any hair left at all. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 14:07:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28J7fSd009069 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:07:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28J6ocP022668; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:06:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28J6ltb032005; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:06:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28J64tb031464 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:06:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.176.69]) by smail1.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 8407599 for ; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 12:01:03 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Machine needle question Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:06:39 -0600 Message-ID: <000201c40540$7cc68f90$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <404CA8E2.6070704@thibault.org> Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i28J64tb031464 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia-- You can usually hear a change in the sound if your needle becomes dull or bent. It's more of a thumping sound than your usual stitching. Other than having a damaged needle, you should also put in a new needle every time you start a new project. And it may help to use the correct kind of needle: Sharps (or denim or quilting) for woven fabrics, the heavier the fabric, the higher numbered needle you want Ball point for knits Universal needles are easy to find, and they are supposed to work for both wovens and knits. I don't care for them myself, I'd prefer to use the correct type. I do put universals in my serger, though. Embroidery or topstitch needle for larger threads There's also a special needle for leather. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Cynthia Virtue Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:10 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Machine needle question Aside from skipped stitches or pulled fabric threads while stitching, is there a generally-accepted way to tell if you need to change the needle on your sewing machine? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent From LoTR, the movie EE: Legolas: Lembas! One bite will fill a man's stomach! Pippin, to Merry: How many did *you* eat? Merry, whimpering: ... four... (belch) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 14:21:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28JL4Sd009178 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:21:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28JKDcP024050; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:20:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28JKAtb042425; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:20:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28JJstb042062 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:19:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.74.3953dd7c (4380) for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:19:42 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <74.3953dd7c.2d7e214e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:19:42 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] KILTS To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/8/2004 11:58:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com writes: > have found them a good middle ground between "butch" and "goofy". > These are great! It is amazing how they look fine on the Scottish gentleman [actually the look my friend is going for] and wonderfully hooty on the sex kittens. But he'll never spring for them. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 16:08:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28L8ESd009807 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:08:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28L73cP005267; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28L6qtb024194; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:06:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28L6mtb024143 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:06:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B89D81D527 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:06:47 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p379.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.125]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A01F5D3EE for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:06:46 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] KILTS Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:07:00 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20040308145414.90516.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have always understood that the Utility kilts are a modern design and therefore would not fit in at Renaissance faires, at least not for the cast. De -----Original Message----- Even that may be changing with the advent of the "utilikilt". This weekend I saw all sorts of men in "Utilikilts, tee-shirts and sneakers. Black and khaki seemed to be more popular than camo. "Frankly I believe they were considered more manly even before Brave heart. Amongst faire and the SCA kilts have long seemed to have been admired as manly, though less so in normal society. " ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 16:54:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28Ls0Sd010029 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:54:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28LrBcP010631; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:53:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28Lr8tb060725; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:53:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28Lr2tb060669 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:53:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4796D1D51C for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:53:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p379.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.125]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B5176D419 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:52:59 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] KILTS Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:53:13 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <8d.539a5a2.2d7df61c@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On a personal note, I don't believe such a thing as a "real" construction-wise kilt which identifies one way of construction (though I have been taught that the term "real" tartan is identifying the 1800's regimental kilt. You have through time specific styles of the kilt, starting with the wrap. Boots - If you are doing an early period outfit, the ghillies styled boot is expectable, from what I have been told there has been no proof of this style but that does not mean they did not exist. My friend said that if such a boot existed it would more then likely that it was wore by a person who rides horses. The most common early leg covering which became the sock, was a bias cut piece of material, sometimes plaid that was wrapped around the lower leg and bound. These were worn with or with/o ghillies type shoes. In the 1600's the wraps by this time were knitted knee hi "socks" or plaid bias knee high "socks" Very few tartans of present day are patterns used before 1600s. The tartan was banned in the late 1600s(time?)to try to stop feuding. There was an old textile book that had plaid patterns/samples in it but from what I understand the tartan patterns were associated by counties not family (though the counties were run by a specific family) The Oglvey's tartan is said to be close to the original plaid associated with the family and area. There are some kilt making companies that offer old pattern plaid that are taken from that old book. I believe that it was in the 1800s that the tartan was allowed to be worn and there was a resurgence of Scottish pride. In early period my friend said that in battle the men would tie up the genitals so that they don't bounce around. As for the loincloth, he didn't mention any loin cloth but wearing one during physical activity makes sense. Oh wait maybe not, these are Scottish men we're talking about. :) After writing this I found I missed the last part of your email. So from what I understand he is not wanting to be of any particular time period or is trying 1800s time period. If 1800's, the kilt was usually only worn for formal occasions. De -----Original Message----- Speaking of kilts.... I'm getting ready to make one for a friend. Although I'm going to follow the proper procedure and make a "real" kilt....construction-wise....the wool is not really a tartan. It's an even plaid [looks good though....grey and brown-orange on black....the client chose it.] Anyway....the guy I'm making it for wants to be butch [Good luck! Did I say that???] and hates the socks. I told him he'd have to wear them. But then I started thinking.... What about boots...like riding boots. But would one wear a kilt riding? Do you have to ride side saddle in a kilt? "Shouldn't be riding astride with his kilt all flying up. "Tain't fittin' Jess t'ain't fittin'" OK...I'm kidding. But can one don boots with their kilt? I also thought gaiters. Not short white ones but more like military ones from the 18th or early 19th century [in a brown or natural duck] that come to or above the knee. The socks would be underneath them I assume...and could roll down over the top of knee high gaiters. But with lots of pewter buttons could look more butch than just socks. Are we straying too far from the correct path? He's not to look formal in any way. We've got a plain leather sporran and he's just wearing an early 19th century linen shirt. The guy's a big hairy bear and in truth would look butch in a tutu....but we aim to please the clientele. What about a hat? Is there anything broad brimmed that would work and, again, not be too off the mark? The idea is he's the hairy romance-novel-cover Pict of your dreams emerging from the forest to ravage you..... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 16:55:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28LtmSd010041 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:55:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28LsgcP010796; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:54:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28Lsdtb061888; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:54:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out004.verizon.net (out004pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.142]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28LsXtb061826 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:54:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([141.152.145.189]) by out004.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040308214629.KAGF11989.out004.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:46:29 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] KILTS Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:46:25 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <8d.539a5a2.2d7df61c@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [141.152.145.189] at Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:46:28 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello I am not sure what the end result you are after is here. Is this for something historical? Is this something to walk around highland games in? I can give you some historic and modern kilt wearing information. First riding. Kilts are not worn for riding. In fact through most of kilt wearing history, kilts were worn by those not likely to be able to afford horses. The proper highland garment for riding are trews. These are very much like the hozen worn in Europe earlier. They are wool, often plaid and cut on the bias. They are very tight and will have most of the same issues (or benefits ;) ) as the tights that were being discussed earlier. These are gone sometime in the 18th century. By then a horsemen is likely to be dressed in European fashion, though it might be in plaid. What tends to referred to has trews today are simply tartan trousers and are not the garment I am discussing here. On the legs. This varies through history and with money. In the earlier days of the kilt (late 16th through the 17th century) it is not unusual to see Highlanders with NO footwear at all. Many sites today will give you difficulty with that. Most of the shoes seem to be similar to those worn elsewhere in the same periods. As far as boots are concerned, I have never seen a riding height boot in any period artwork and it would be disdained by modern Kilt etiquette. Modern Kilt etiquette does allow for low boots however. The British army uses these and hiking boots are common with appropriate clothing. These are usually worn with the high stockings. The British army and traditional hunters wear the same arrangement on the lower leg that you would see in modern times with the kilt. Actually so do British boy scouts. Wool stockings folded down on top, held up with a flash (a garter with a little flag of ribbon that hangs from the fold) and then the boot. Early on the stocking were not knit but were cut from cloth. These are not the baggy buskins you often see depicted (Rob Roy and the commercial pattern are two examples). I have no idea where that look comes from, and while it is easy to make they are ugly as sin. By the American Revolution it appears that there was about a fifty-fifty ratio of cut hose to knit hose being worn by Highland regiments. I am surprised by your clients reluctance to wear hose. Proper hose, even most of the commercially available varieties are not in the least bit unmanly. What looks awful is one people cheat. Modern crew socks, thin modern longer length dress socks, these do look awful. There are ways to cheat, but the stocking must have a little bulk to it to look good. Rag wool cross country stocking for instance are far cheaper than Kilt hose and look fine. The only gaiters I have ever seen worn with kilts are the short ones. Early 19th century already is short length by the way, at least in the British and American Armies. Most British regiments were discarding the higher gaiter by the American revolution. If you look at the depictions of the Highland Regiments of the 7 Years or French Indian war period by the way (Which is the High Gaiter period) you will see that the Highland regiments are wearing no gaiters at all, but simply shoes and hose. In the short gaiter period the highlanders do wear them, and the Military and bands still do. (I do actually have documentation for the 42nd (The Royal Black Watch) wearing high blue woolen gaiters in the American Revolution one winter for warmth, but they had discarded wearing kilts by the time. As far as brimmed hat well that depends on usage again. Today headgear doesn't seem to matter much (though some people feel only military should wear the Glengarry). In history, the closest thing I have seen to a brimmed hat worn with a kilt is the Foreign Service helmet often called a solar topee (sp?) or pith helmet. There are various models of these. There was also a period in the 19th century that a scotch cap was worn. These are like a modern diced balmoral but with a leather cap brim forward. Actually know that I mention them however, I am not sure I have seen them worn with a kilt. For a couple hundred years one of the most common articles of Scottish clothing was the Bonnet. Today these tend to have touries (pom poms) on top and come in many colors and often Tartan. They now go by the name of Tam-o-shanter or tam for short. Through most of history they were blue or blue with a red adjusting lace around the bottom. These really were the garment that marked you as Scottish in history more than the kilt. The have been worn through a longer period of history and in the lowlands as well as the highlands. I am not sure you would find the upper crust wearing them still however, unless trying to make a Statement such as with the Jacobites. I mention these bonnets not only because they are so common, but because when worn correctly the provide cover from the weather and the sun as any brimmed hat would. That was part of their purpose. Today they tend to be cocked over on one side which looks a little less goofy but was strictly a military style originally (to keep it from be jarred by a shouldered musket). This also removes much of their function! They should (unless in a British Highland Regiment, be cocked forward witch causes them to work very similarly to a driving cap. As far as Tartan is concerned, here it really depends upon purpose. Most scholars today will tell you that Family Tartan most likely did not exist at all until the early 19th century. There are some who believe that regional tartans may be earlier, but that they still may have only been colors rather than always restricted to the same sett (pattern of plaid). Historically, except for the simple tartans, you are probably better NOT using tartan. Today may be a different matter. By today I mean if his purpose is to hang out at highland games. Highland games have created their own culture based more upon myth and romance than history. Some of these people will look very much down their noses at someone wearing "pretend" tartans or Tartans they have no "right" to as well. Many of these same people have no difficulty with wearing the three feathers of the Laird in their bonnets however! Their is a modern etiquette to kilts today, but even the experts don't agree with some of the finer points however. We talked about "snarking" earlier, this is not unusual amongst the modern kilted crowd and it can be just as ill-informed as the comments on AIPON! There is even a webpage devoted to it! Slainte Ranald Carnegie > I also thought gaiters. Not short white ones but more like > military ones from > the 18th or early 19th century [in a brown or natural duck] that > come to or > above the knee. The socks would be underneath them I assume...and > could roll > down over the top of knee high gaiters. But with lots of pewter > buttons could > look more butch than just socks. > > Are we straying too far from the correct path? He's not to look > formal in any > way. We've got a plain leather sporran and he's just wearing an > early 19th > century linen shirt. The guy's a big hairy bear and in truth > would look butch in > a tutu....but we aim to please the clientele. > > What about a hat? Is there anything broad brimmed that would work > and, again, > not be too off the mark? > > The idea is he's the hairy romance-novel-cover Pict of your > dreams emerging > from the forest to ravage you..... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 17:30:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28MU5Sd010178 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:30:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28MT5cP013956; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:29:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28MT2TN088192; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:29:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28MSuTN088129 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:28:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F114A1D637 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:28:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t3p295.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.221.41]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A3D5ED411 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:28:54 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:29:09 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Late period = 1500's. Sorry, got wrapped up in the subject and assumed people were following the trail. De -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Kate M Bunting Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 3:19 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manly men don't wear tights (was: Off Kilter) >>> otsisto@socket.net 06/03/04 09:27:07 >>> wrote: >I have noticed though that a man in a late period outfit is usually >considered: >A. Gay >B. Married >C. Going to be married >.D. Momma sewed it. When you say "late period", do you mean the later part of the period the SCA do? (Don't forget a lot of folks on this list are not SCA members.)_ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 17:40:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28MecSd010221 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:40:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28MdWcP014901; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:39:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28MdPTN096012; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:39:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28MdLTN095939 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:39:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B0TP3-0001UN-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:39:17 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:33:10 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] KILTS References: <8d.539a5a2.2d7df61c@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8d.539a5a2.2d7df61c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Most guys these days wearing a kilt in non-formal situations wear low boots - desert boots, Doc Martens, or just hiking boots. They have the right tough look with comfort (trainers/sneakers look just stupid). Something big and chunky but low. I can't see it working with knee-high boots like riding boots - I think you want to avoid polished leather, and anything chunky that high is going to visually interfere with the impact of the kilt itself. Jean AlbertCat@aol.com wrote >Speaking of kilts.... > >I'm getting ready to make one for a friend. Although I'm going to follow the >proper procedure and make a "real" kilt....construction-wise....the wool is >not really a tartan. It's an even plaid [looks good though....grey and >brown-orange on black....the client chose it.] > >Anyway....the guy I'm making it for wants to be butch [Good luck! Did I say >that???] and hates the socks. I told him he'd have to wear them. But then I >started thinking.... > >What about boots...like riding boots. But would one wear a kilt riding? Do >you have to ride side saddle in a kilt? "Shouldn't be riding astride with his >kilt all flying up. "Tain't fittin' Jess t'ain't fittin'" >OK...I'm kidding. But can one don boots with their kilt? > >I also thought gaiters. Not short white ones but more like military ones from >the 18th or early 19th century [in a brown or natural duck] that come to or >above the knee. The socks would be underneath them I assume...and could roll >down over the top of knee high gaiters. But with lots of pewter buttons could >look more butch than just socks. > >Are we straying too far from the correct path? He's not to look formal in any >way. We've got a plain leather sporran and he's just wearing an early 19th >century linen shirt. The guy's a big hairy bear and in truth would look >butch in >a tutu....but we aim to please the clientele. > >What about a hat? Is there anything broad brimmed that would work and, again, >not be too off the mark? > >The idea is he's the hairy romance-novel-cover Pict of your dreams emerging >from the forest to ravage you..... >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 17:44:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28MihSd010232 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:44:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28MhxcP015431; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28MhxTN099692; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:43:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28MhoTN099538 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:43:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from 39jz301 ([63.139.56.203]) by fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040308020247.ZTFT3598.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:02:47 -0500 Message-ID: <006801c404b1$85fa6a80$cb388b3f@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <119.2fe05128.2d7bca7c@aol.com><004c01c40403$1ade5d50$cb388b3f@39jz301> <200403071233.05825.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks or Snacks Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:03:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [63.139.56.203] using ID at Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:02:47 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > Noil *does* tend to stink to high heaven, but I haven't noticed any smell in > other forms of silk. The silk in Target was actually a silk *knit*. Dupionni, especially if you buy it at an East Indian store, also has a distinctive smell that is somewhat different than noile. I can pick up either. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 17:54:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28MsUSd010250 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:54:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28MrmcP016316; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:53:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28MrNTN007167; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:53:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28Mr8TN006967 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:53:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.d9.530dd8f (17228) for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:52:58 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:52:58 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] KILTS To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/8/2004 4:55:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, r.carnegie@verizon.net writes: > I am not sure what the end result you are after is here. Is this for > something historical? Is this something to walk around highland games in? > It's for theatre. It's this daydream sequence so I could make it out of lame if I wanted! :-P It's almost a gag really....he just comes out and grabs one of the female characters and carts her off. [Hey....I'm not directing!] The guy is paying me to make it rather than rent something. He wants to keep it. I'm doing the modern construction with hand sewn pleats in the back [the sett & his measurements demand 28 of them...to the stripe] so after the show it will be basically acceptable if he wants to wear it to Highland Games. It will actually be a nice looking kilt. I like the plaid. I insist on a sporran because that is the best way to avert Catholic School girl impressions. Besides, they're a good detail. Basically I wanted to know if his black riding boots were out of the question. I think so now. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 18:36:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28NaOSd010446 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:36:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28NZIcP020138; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:35:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28NZDTN038784; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:35:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28NZ2TN038641 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:35:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.133.218]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BEEE6A8F2 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:34:59 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:38:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks or Snacks Message-ID: <404C9373.5825.3DA97814@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <006801c404b1$85fa6a80$cb388b3f@39jz301> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The silk in Target was actually a silk *knit*. Dupionni, especially > if you buy it at an East Indian store, also has a distinctive smell > that is somewhat different than noile. I can pick up either. If you buy it in an East Indian store it's going to have the distinctive odor of the incense that they burn in almost every shop I've been in. (I personally like it and it's one of the few incenses that doesn't make me have sneezing, watery eyes and itching body just being around it. Craft stores on the other hand...) But then, that's going to be nothing like what you smell in Target (which would probably be more likely to have the formaldehyde fumigation that most facric store warehouses have.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 20:28:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i291S0Sd010858 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:28:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i291RHcP029277; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:27:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i291R5TN010924; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:27:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i291R0TN010881 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:27:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a214.in-tch.com [66.62.107.14]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i2914Cs26588 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:04:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <404D1E28.8030604@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 18:30:16 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Machine needle question References: <404CA8E2.6070704@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <404CA8E2.6070704@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When it breaks? I've actually read, in the distant past, that it's a good idea to replace the needle with each new project, but it's not something I do. I tend to feel the tip for burrs and such, though. --sue Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Aside from skipped stitches or pulled fabric threads while stitching, is > there a generally-accepted way to tell if you need to change the needle > on your sewing machine? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 22:06:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2936DSd011460 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:06:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2935VcP005268; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:05:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2935RTN063918; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:05:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2935OTN063906 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:05:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i2935Nko025770 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:05:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.151] (tnt-1-206.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.142]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2935JiY025598 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:05:22 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002701c403ae$56870aa0$cb6afea9@sherry> References: <404894C8.7020906@in-tch.com><011a01c402cb$62086330$bd943a41@HELENPINTO><4 049F0C6.5000903@in-tch.com> <00c701c403a5$669f4e60$8f719e40@HELENPINTO> <002701c403ae$56870aa0$cb6afea9@sherry> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:53:43 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost]History with at twist (was Garb Snarks) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 2:07 PM -0500 3/6/04, Shane & Sheridan wrote: >Years ago when I first got into costuming, I stumbled accross a book in the >University of Saskatchewan library that had a stunning photograph of a >lovely African lady in full Elizbethan. The catch: the fabrics used for her >gown were all animal/African prints in shades of orange, black and brown - >zebra, leapord, you name it! They had her sitting on a dock with a tall ship >behind her. Lovely! > >As I recall this same book had some of the Elizabethan Blackadder costumes >in it as well. Does anyone here know what this book is, I never wrote the >title down as I had been looking for something else at the time... I believe the book you're thinking of may be: Boswell, Thom (ed.). 1992. Costume-Maker's Art. Lark Books, Asheville, NC. ISBN 0-937274-58-5 Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 22:07:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2937WSd011466 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:07:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2936ocP005362; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:06:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2936nTN064648; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:06:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2936HTO064364 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:06:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2938PE6007814 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:08:25 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i2938Ps9007812 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:08:25 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Machine needle question Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:08:25 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <404CA8E2.6070704@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <404CA8E2.6070704@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403082208.25246.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 08 March 2004 12:09 pm, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Aside from skipped stitches or pulled fabric threads while stitching, is > there a generally-accepted way to tell if you need to change the needle > on your sewing machine? I find that if my thread keeps breaking, changing needles solves the problem. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 22:11:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i293AxSd011482 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:11:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i293AIcP005659; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:10:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i293AHTN066478; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:10:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i293ACTO066437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:10:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i293CJE6007846 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:12:19 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i293CJwr007844 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:12:19 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks or Snacks Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:12:19 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <119.2fe05128.2d7bca7c@aol.com> <200403071233.05825.cathy@thyrsus.com> <006801c404b1$85fa6a80$cb388b3f@39jz301> In-Reply-To: <006801c404b1$85fa6a80$cb388b3f@39jz301> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403082212.19574.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 07 March 2004 09:03 pm, Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > Greetings-- > > > Noil *does* tend to stink to high heaven, but I haven't noticed any smell > > in other forms of silk. > > The silk in Target was actually a silk *knit*. Dupionni, especially if you > buy it at an East Indian store, also has a distinctive smell that is > somewhat different than noile. I can pick up either. You may well be right; I don't shop at Target very often, and my only local Indian store doesn't stock silk anything--it's mostly cotton and poly in various forms. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 22:22:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i293MtSd011508 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:22:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i293M9cP006296; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:22:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i293M3TN072635; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:22:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out005.verizon.net (out005pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.143]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i293LxTN072609 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:22:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp ([4.62.21.200]) by out005.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040309032159.WWJH2677.out005.verizon.net@brandyscomp>; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:21:59 -0600 Message-ID: <001401c40585$b0409bf0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> From: "Brandy Deming" To: "SCA Costumes" , "Historic Costume List" Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:22:00 -0800 Organization: Better Times for Small Business MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out005.verizon.net from [4.62.21.200] at Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:21:58 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bog Dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i293MtSd011508 Status: RO Does anyone know of good pictures or patterns for a Bog Dress? Sidhra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 22:29:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i293TESd011525 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:29:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i293STcP006756; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:28:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i293SSTN076089; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:28:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i293SNTO076046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:28:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i293x0Wm016876 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:59:01 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AA31247E001E; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:29:53 -0500 Received: from reaston.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.116]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:29:52 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <001b01c40587$4fdfb000$745183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] KILTS Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:33:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Interesting term...'Boots...Ghillies...exceptable-acceptable... Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 4:53 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] KILTS > On a personal note, I don't believe such a thing as a "real" > construction-wise kilt which identifies one way of construction (though I > have been taught that the term "real" tartan is identifying the 1800's > regimental kilt. You have through time specific styles of the kilt, starting > with the wrap. > Boots - If you are doing an early period outfit, the ghillies styled boot is > expectable, from what I have been told there has been no proof of this style > but that does not mean they did not exist. My friend said that if such a > boot existed it would more then likely that it was wore by a person who > rides horses. The most common early leg covering which became the sock, was > a bias cut piece of material, sometimes plaid that was wrapped around the > lower leg and bound. These were worn with or with/o ghillies type shoes. In > the 1600's the wraps by this time were knitted knee hi "socks" or plaid bias > knee high "socks" > Very few tartans of present day are patterns used before 1600s. The tartan > was banned in the late 1600s(time?)to try to stop feuding. > There was an old textile book that had plaid patterns/samples in it but from > what I understand the tartan patterns were associated by counties not family > (though the counties were run by a specific family) The Oglvey's tartan is > said to be close to the original plaid associated with the family and area. > There are some kilt making companies that offer old pattern plaid that are > taken from that old book. > I believe that it was in the 1800s that the tartan was allowed to be worn > and there was a resurgence of Scottish pride. > In early period my friend said that in battle the men would tie up the > genitals so that they don't bounce around. As for the loincloth, he didn't > mention any loin cloth but wearing one during physical activity makes sense. > Oh wait maybe not, these are Scottish men we're talking about. :) > After writing this I found I missed the last part of your email. > So from what I understand he is not wanting to be of any particular time > period or is trying 1800s time period. If 1800's, the kilt was usually only > worn for formal occasions. > > De > > -----Original Message----- > Speaking of kilts.... > > I'm getting ready to make one for a friend. Although I'm going to follow the > proper procedure and make a "real" kilt....construction-wise....the wool is > not really a tartan. It's an even plaid [looks good though....grey and > brown-orange on black....the client chose it.] > > Anyway....the guy I'm making it for wants to be butch [Good luck! Did I say > that???] and hates the socks. I told him he'd have to wear them. But then I > started thinking.... > > What about boots...like riding boots. But would one wear a kilt riding? Do > you have to ride side saddle in a kilt? "Shouldn't be riding astride with > his > kilt all flying up. "Tain't fittin' Jess t'ain't fittin'" > OK...I'm kidding. But can one don boots with their kilt? > > I also thought gaiters. Not short white ones but more like military ones > from > the 18th or early 19th century [in a brown or natural duck] that come to or > above the knee. The socks would be underneath them I assume...and could roll > down over the top of knee high gaiters. But with lots of pewter buttons > could > look more butch than just socks. > > Are we straying too far from the correct path? He's not to look formal in > any > way. We've got a plain leather sporran and he's just wearing an early 19th > century linen shirt. The guy's a big hairy bear and in truth would look > butch in > a tutu....but we aim to please the clientele. > > What about a hat? Is there anything broad brimmed that would work and, > again, > not be too off the mark? > > The idea is he's the hairy romance-novel-cover Pict of your dreams emerging > from the forest to ravage you..... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 22:45:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i293jkSd011571 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:45:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i293j4cP008029; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:45:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i293j1TN084902; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:45:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf30.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf30.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.230]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i293ixTN084820 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:45:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joedr@charter.net) Received: from charter.net (66.169.191.177.ts46v-16.otnh2.ftwrth.tx.charter.com [66.169.191.177]) by mxsf30.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i293cJ2u049735 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:38:20 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from joedr@charter.net) Message-ID: <404D3C2B.15EC32B1@charter.net> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 21:38:19 -0600 From: Joe Robertson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bog Dress References: <001401c40585$b0409bf0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do a search on Google or similar search engine for the Shinrone gown. There are patterns for it available online. Joe --- Joe Robertson, Psy.D. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 23:17:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i294HMSd011684 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:17:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i294GicP010088; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:16:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i294GgNe001322; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:16:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.k12.hi.us (honu.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.214]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i294GbNe001292 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:16:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from makani (makani.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.195]) by smtp.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E556506DB for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:12:29 -1000 (HST) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:14:54 -1000 (HST) From: annora X-X-Sender: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bog Dress In-Reply-To: <001401c40585$b0409bf0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Does anyone know of good pictures or patterns for a Bog Dress? Which bog dress are you thinking of? Someone else mentioned the Shinrone gown but when I hear "bog dress" the one that comes to mind is the one that's basically a Doric chiton. I think it was from the Bronze Age someplace in Northern Europe. --One length of fabric, narrow top fold, upper edges caught together with brooches at the shoulder. If you're SCA, Tournaments Illuminated had an article by Kass McGann a few years back on her study and reconstruction of the Shinrone gown. annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 23:32:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i294WDSd011756 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:32:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i294VTcP011309; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:31:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i294VONe008984; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:31:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i294VKNe008959 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:31:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02467 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:02:07 -0600 Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:02:07 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bog Dress In-Reply-To: <001401c40585$b0409bf0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Brandy Deming wrote: > Does anyone know of good pictures or patterns for a Bog Dress? The term "bog dress" seems to be used for a number of different things. (I've even heard it used to refer to the Greenland gowns, which were not in a bog!) Can you give us a clue as to which particular find you're thinking of -- if not by name, then by place, period, or style? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 23:41:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i294fbSd011767 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:41:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i294etcP011864; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:40:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i294erNe013718; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:40:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out009.verizon.net (out009pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.131]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i294elNe013691 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:40:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp ([4.62.21.200]) by out009.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040309043401.YYBC29216.out009.verizon.net@brandyscomp> for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:34:01 -0600 Message-ID: <001301c4058f$c0d25ad0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> From: "Brandy Deming" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001401c40585$b0409bf0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> <404D3C2B.15EC32B1@charter.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bog Dress Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:34:03 -0800 Organization: Better Times for Small Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out009.verizon.net from [4.62.21.200] at Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:34:01 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Robertson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bog Dress > Do a search on Google or similar search engine for the Shinrone gown. > There are patterns for it available online. > Joe > --- > Joe Robertson, Psy.D. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 8 23:50:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i294o9Sd011795 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:50:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i294nRcP012502; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:49:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i294nONe018099; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:49:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i294nKNe018078 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:49:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a231.in-tch.com [66.62.107.31]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i294QWs21998 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:26:33 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <404D4D95.5090601@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 21:52:37 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bog Dress References: <001401c40585$b0409bf0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> In-Reply-To: <001401c40585$b0409bf0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. There are a number of gowns called "bog dresses." Which kind are you thinking of? (It'd help if you could give us a time period and region.) --sue Brandy Deming wrote: > Does anyone know of good pictures or patterns for a Bog Dress? > > Sidhra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 00:00:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2950sSd011843 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:00:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29502cP013299; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29500Ne023510; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:00:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out014.verizon.net (out014pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i294xNNe023172 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:59:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([141.152.156.154]) by out014.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040309044535.QFHW5247.out014.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:45:35 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] KILTS Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:45:32 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out014.verizon.net from [141.152.156.154] at Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:45:35 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I believe the original poster was using the term "real" in relation to the Tartan rather than the "kilt". In the sense he meant real Tartan as in sett and color of plaid registered with the College of Lyons. The "great kilt", "a feilidh-mhor (great wrap), a breacan-feile (tartan wrap) is often referred to as a belted plaid or simply plaid as is the fake add on version that is worn with the modern kilt. I have never heard of a kilt referred to as a tartan however. The regimental kilt is referred to by that very name, though originally it seems to have been called by the gaelic "philabeg" or small kilt. There are four different versions of the small kilt that I am aware off. The early ones were box pleated according to Stuart Reid. This would have been in the late 18th century early 19th century. Modern regimental kilts are pleated in the regimental fashion, which is to say to a line of the tartan, much the way a belted plaid is folded. The other two are both civilian kilts styles and is really just two different ways of pleating the back of the kilt. One is "regimental" pleated like the proper military kilt, but built like a civilian kilt and most commonly pleated to sett. This is a complicated method of pleating which causes the sett (or pattern" of the tartan to still be visible from the rear just as it is on the unpleated apron at the front. It was the "Act of Proscription" that stopped the wearing of kilts and tartan. This was in response to the last of the Jacobite wars in 1746. It was only in effect for a few decades. Many claim that this cause earlier family tartan to vanish but the period was to short for that to be true. There is a very good discussion on the myth of family tartan in "So you want to wear the kilt". The early books giving these "early" patterns were created by a couple of polish men following the lifting of the proscriptions, while King George the IV was running around pretending to be a Scot. I can't find my copy around the house currently (too many books). The modern "ancient" tartans are not an attempt to recreate early tartans they are just the modern tartan woven in lighter shades to represent vegetable dyes that have faded over time. The better kilt makers will tell you this. The bias cut fabric wrapped around the leg is a buskin. I have no idea where these have come from. I have seen examples of this sort of thing done by other cultures very early (pre 1000) but have not seen documentation for Scotland. In fact the common reference I see is bare-legged. In fact highlanders are often referred to as red legs or shanks from this. The earliest artwork I am aware of depicting the belted plaid (1631) shows four highlander in service to King Gustavas Adolphus. Two of these men are completely barefoot. Of the other two one appears to be wearing simple shoes and the last, actually wearing breeches, appears to be wearing "cut" hose. By this I mean stockings sewn from woven cloth rather than knit. This is wear the Argyll stockings originated, as well as the regimental diced patterns. The belted plaid existence prior to 1600 is a much debated issue. There does seem to be ONE reference, but that is about it. Reconstructing History has a lot of good information regarding the history of Scottish clothing, as does one of the links from the Scottish Tartan Museum http://www.scottishtartans.org/ I remain R Carnegie > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of otsisto > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 4:53 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] KILTS > > > On a personal note, I don't believe such a thing as a "real" > construction-wise kilt which identifies one way of construction (though I > have been taught that the term "real" tartan is identifying the 1800's > regimental kilt. You have through time specific styles of the > kilt, starting > with the wrap. > Boots - If you are doing an early period outfit, the ghillies > styled boot is > expectable, from what I have been told there has been no proof of > this style > but that does not mean they did not exist. My friend said that if such a > boot existed it would more then likely that it was wore by a person who > rides horses. The most common early leg covering which became the > sock, was > a bias cut piece of material, sometimes plaid that was wrapped around the > lower leg and bound. These were worn with or with/o ghillies type > shoes. In > the 1600's the wraps by this time were knitted knee hi "socks" or > plaid bias > knee high "socks" > Very few tartans of present day are patterns used before 1600s. The tartan > was banned in the late 1600s(time?)to try to stop feuding. > There was an old textile book that had plaid patterns/samples in > it but from > what I understand the tartan patterns were associated by counties > not family > (though the counties were run by a specific family) The Oglvey's tartan is > said to be close to the original plaid associated with the family > and area. > There are some kilt making companies that offer old pattern plaid that are > taken from that old book. > I believe that it was in the 1800s that the tartan was allowed to be worn > and there was a resurgence of Scottish pride. > In early period my friend said that in battle the men would tie up the > genitals so that they don't bounce around. As for the loincloth, he didn't > mention any loin cloth but wearing one during physical activity > makes sense. > Oh wait maybe not, these are Scottish men we're talking about. :) > After writing this I found I missed the last part of your email. > So from what I understand he is not wanting to be of any particular time > period or is trying 1800s time period. If 1800's, the kilt was > usually only > worn for formal occasions. > > De > > -----Original Message----- > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 00:01:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2951eSd011852 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:01:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29511cP013376; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29510Ne024044; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:01:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav56.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.191]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2950uNe023973 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:00:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:43:33 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav56.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 04:43:32 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <055901c40471$ba62cff0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> <404B75F8.2050206@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: manly men in tights Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:44:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Mar 2004 04:43:33.0293 (UTC) FILETIME=[13BF7DD0:01C40591] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Secondarily, most of the single guys I know want chicks to dig them for > who they are everyday, not because they dressed up in a costume. No no! The nice clothing is just an attention-grabber! They should know that, if they ever saw a woman in the morning without makeup, dissheveled and puffy-eyed... We want the every day guy - but if we know that once in a while he can make himself look nice... hmmm... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 00:11:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i295BESd011891 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:11:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i295AccP014024; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:10:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i295AaNe028696; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:10:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-2.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-2.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i295AWNe028629 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:10:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from gallilelo (d14-69-189-68.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.68.189]) by pop-2.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i294Zdj17124 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:35:39 -0600 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bog Dress References: <001401c40585$b0409bf0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> <404D3C2B.15EC32B1@charter.net> Message-ID: From: Michelle Plumb Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=windows-1252 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 23:33:02 -0500 In-Reply-To: <404D3C2B.15EC32B1@charter.net> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Shinrone is nice, but I had the Moy bog gown in mind: http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/irish/moy.html Sigh, gorgeous. Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 00:11:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i295BoSd011895 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:11:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i295BBcP014089; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:11:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i295B9Ne028996; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:11:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out012.verizon.net (out012pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i295AlNe028790 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:10:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp ([4.62.21.200]) by out012.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040309051047.MKHB18295.out012.verizon.net@brandyscomp> for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:10:47 -0600 Message-ID: <003301c40594$e3b51290$c8153e04@brandyscomp> From: "Brandy Deming" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001401c40585$b0409bf0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> <404D4D95.5090601@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bog Dress Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:10:49 -0800 Organization: Better Times for Small Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out012.verizon.net from [4.62.21.200] at Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:10:47 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO for SCA so, preferably from 1300-1600s :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 8:52 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bog Dress > Hi. There are a number of gowns called "bog dresses." Which kind are > you thinking of? (It'd help if you could give us a time period and region.) > --sue > > Brandy Deming wrote: > > > Does anyone know of good pictures or patterns for a Bog Dress? > > > > Sidhra > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 00:20:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i295KVSd011924 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:20:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i295JpcP014494; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:19:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i295JoNe033370; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:19:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i295JjNf033341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:19:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net (acty4016.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.249.16]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i295Jgnf029216 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:19:44 -0500 Message-ID: <404D53EC.2040003@dandy.net> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 00:19:40 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. See notes of previous letter. I was discussing my experiences, which, although you are within your rights to disagree with, are still what has happened to me. See also comment about "FARB", which is a variant of snarking which exists in reenacting as a whole. To the best of my knowledge, the standard "an attempt at pre-17th Cent. clothing" leaves a lot of room, and could certainly be called "not as detailed" without prevarication. My point, which you were able to sum up well, was that, with a "loose" standard allows people to make up their own standards, and "fail" others who don't live up to them. Their "bubble" that is burst is the old standby of the old days, that a person was ruining someones "Dream" (aka, you're killing my buzz, man...) by not being sufficiently "period". This can occur in a setting, for example, mentioned on this list previously, where a costumed historical interpreter recognized the shortcomings of a person ostensibly responsible for setting the clothing and other standards at a site where they worked. One is seen as being a buzz-killer (being nothing more serious than a social faux-pas in a private organization), the other as a serious dimunition of a historical sites' ability to properly interpret history to the public. I intend no offence to an organization of which I have been a member for over 20 years, but I do realize it's shortcomings vis-a-vis historical interpretation, especially in the arena of historical clothing, an area which, like it's martial aspects, is one of the most vivid, visual and lasting elements it presents to both it's members and the public, which it has a public responsibility towards (501c3 etc. ) Mike T. otsisto wrote: >I disagree. I have seen some LHs having standards and still there is >snarking. Perhaps not as much as groups with little or no standards. I would >like to point out that SCA does have standards but not as detailed as LHers >because it covers a broad range of time and area. >Also, there are many people who are in it for costuming or craft and not for >the full authenticity experience. Most period police tend to forget that and >then get annoyed at the person who they think is not authentic to their >standards of periodness because it bursts they little bubble. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 00:24:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i295OISd011945 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:24:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i295NacP014766; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:23:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i295NZNe035204; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:23:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out014.verizon.net (out014pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i295NWNe035167 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:23:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp ([4.62.21.200]) by out014.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040309052331.QMRA5247.out014.verizon.net@brandyscomp>; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:23:31 -0600 Message-ID: <004f01c40596$ab69fde0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> From: "Brandy Deming" To: "SCA Costumes" , "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bog Dress Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:23:33 -0800 Organization: Better Times for Small Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out014.verizon.net from [4.62.21.200] at Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:23:31 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO WOW! Lots of options. I know that I can be really vague at times, but I am REALLY new to this. I looked at a ton of websites and will have to keep searching more on all the info that was sent. THANK YOU ALL!! I think I am going to go with a rendition of the Shinrone Gown. I picked up some OK pale blue fabric for the chemise and a patterned blue fabric for the over dress for my summer garb and think that it will go nicely. BTW, still working on Fortibra costumes. There was a woman from Everett who offered her assistance and I think I accidentally erased the email. Can you contact me privately again: queenscorner@verizon.net. Thanks again. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:02 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bog Dress > On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Brandy Deming wrote: > > > Does anyone know of good pictures or patterns for a Bog Dress? > > The term "bog dress" seems to be used for a number of different things. > (I've even heard it used to refer to the Greenland gowns, which were not > in a bog!) Can you give us a clue as to which particular find you're > thinking of -- if not by name, then by place, period, or style? > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 00:27:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i295R3Sd011956 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:27:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i295QOcP014921; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:26:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i295QLNe036495; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:26:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav33.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i295QKNe036445 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:26:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:08:57 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav33.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 05:08:57 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <404CA8E2.6070704@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Machine needle question Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:10:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Mar 2004 05:08:57.0933 (UTC) FILETIME=[A08117D0:01C40594] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I usually just touch the tip to my finger and decide, but that's probably not accurate in any way :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 PM Subject: [h-cost] Machine needle question > Aside from skipped stitches or pulled fabric threads while stitching, is > there a generally-accepted way to tell if you need to change the needle > on your sewing machine? > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > From LoTR, the movie EE: > Legolas: Lembas! One bite will fill a man's stomach! > Pippin, to Merry: How many did *you* eat? > Merry, whimpering: ... four... (belch) > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 00:29:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i295TSSd011972 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:29:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i295SqcP015131; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:28:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i295SpNe037662; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:28:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-3.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-3.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i295SoNe037620 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:28:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from Jupiter (d14-69-189-68.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.68.189]) by pop-3.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2956mi19574 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:06:48 -0600 From: Michelle Plumb To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:07:00 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403090007.00432.mplumb@wideopenwest.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bog dress pattern query. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was thinking of the Moy Bog dress as shown here: http://reconstructinghistory.com/irish/moy.html Sigh, gorgeous. Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 01:32:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i296WLSd012103 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 01:32:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i296VXcP018448; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:31:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i296VONe067179; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:31:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i296VKNe067159 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:31:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E90101D0F6 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:31:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p201.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.203]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8EA58C40E for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:31:18 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:31:34 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <404D53EC.2040003@dandy.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My disagreement was with one of the emails statement that there was no snarking among those groups with standards, not your experience. Sorry for not being clear. De -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of michael tartaglio Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:20 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks Hi. See notes of previous letter. I was discussing my experiences, which, although you are within your rights to disagree with, are still what has happened to me. See also comment about "FARB", which is a variant of snarking which exists in reenacting as a whole. To the best of my knowledge, the standard "an attempt at pre-17th Cent. clothing" leaves a lot of room, and could certainly be called "not as detailed" without prevarication. My point, which you were able to sum up well, was that, with a "loose" standard allows people to make up their own standards, and "fail" others who don't live up to them. Their "bubble" that is burst is the old standby of the old days, that a person was ruining someones "Dream" (aka, you're killing my buzz, man...) by not being sufficiently "period". This can occur in a setting, for example, mentioned on this list previously, where a costumed historical interpreter recognized the shortcomings of a person ostensibly responsible for setting the clothing and other standards at a site where they worked. One is seen as being a buzz-killer (being nothing more serious than a social faux-pas in a private organization), the other as a serious dimunition of a historical sites' ability to properly interpret history to the public. I intend no offence to an organization of which I have been a member for over 20 years, but I do realize it's shortcomings vis-a-vis historical interpretation, especially in the arena of historical clothing, an area which, like it's martial aspects, is one of the most vivid, visual and lasting elements it presents to both it's members and the public, which it has a public responsibility towards (501c3 etc. ) Mike T. otsisto wrote: >I disagree. I have seen some LHs having standards and still there is >snarking. Perhaps not as much as groups with little or no standards. I would >like to point out that SCA does have standards but not as detailed as LHers >because it covers a broad range of time and area. >Also, there are many people who are in it for costuming or craft and not for >the full authenticity experience. Most period police tend to forget that and >then get annoyed at the person who they think is not authentic to their >standards of periodness because it bursts they little bubble. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 02:23:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i297N8Sd028667 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 02:23:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i297MPcP019943; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:22:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i297MNNe089789; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:22:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i297MINe089757 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:22:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i297MGkq001477 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:22:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.151] (tnt-1-271.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.207]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i297M9iY001156; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:22:15 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001401c40585$b0409bf0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> References: <001401c40585$b0409bf0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:47:28 -0800 To: Historical Costume , "SCA Costumes" From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bog Dress Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 7:22 PM -0800 3/8/04, Brandy Deming wrote: >Does anyone know of good pictures or patterns for a Bog Dress? I've seen/heard about a dozen different garments, from nearly a 2000 year time span, referred to as a "Bog Dress". It probably isn't a useful label for getting information about a specific garment. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 02:23:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i297NKSd028783 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 02:23:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i297MfcP019975; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:22:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i297MfNe089931; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:22:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i297MKNe089770 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:22:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i297MIko001549 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:22:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.151] (tnt-1-271.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.207]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i297M9ia001156 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:22:17 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:50:51 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bog Dress Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 6:14 PM -1000 3/8/04, annora wrote: > > Does anyone know of good pictures or patterns for a Bog Dress? > > Which bog dress are you thinking of? Someone else mentioned the >Shinrone gown but when I hear "bog dress" the one that comes to mind is >the one that's basically a Doric chiton. I think it was from the Bronze >Age someplace in Northern Europe. --One length of fabric, narrow top >fold, upper edges caught together with brooches at the shoulder. The Huldremose dress -- late Iron Age rather than Bronze Age. The dating I've seen for it is around the 1st century CE. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 02:55:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i297tjSd005988 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 02:55:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i297t3cP021180; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i297spNe005282; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:54:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i297skNe005202 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:54:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be0b.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.11]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 0D9EB5EE050 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:54:39 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001601c405ab$c401b810$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:54:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] english/french stays X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i297tjSd005988 Status: RO I have thoaght about this could be a kind of mobbing of the english from france. They were enemies and at war all the time, the english and the french, and perhaps Garsault wanted to say, "look here. The English are so stupid, they lace their stays in the front" Even that he had no idea about it in the start. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 03:00:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2980cSd005997 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 03:00:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29800cP021376; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 01:00:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29800Ne007916; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 01:00:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i297xpNe007830 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:59:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be0b.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.11]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 208AB26288D for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:59:48 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <007c01c405ac$827d9ac0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:59:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] english/french stays X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2980cSd005997 Status: RO sorry about the last post. It was ment for another group. The topic has ben disgussed here, but i asked the same question in another group. Sorry Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 04:08:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2998oSd006643 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 04:08:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29989cP024103; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 02:08:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29979Ne037184; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 02:08:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.hccnet.nl (smtp.hccnet.nl [62.251.0.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29962Ne036795 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 02:07:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Gelfling@dds.nl) Received: from Gelfling.dds.nl by smtp.hccnet.nl via fia19-74-100.dsl.hccnet.nl [80.100.74.19] with ESMTP for id i297Xtru005573 (8.12.10/2.04); Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:34:00 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20040309081555.016c3598@pop.dds.nl> X-Sender: Gelfling@pop.dds.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 08:33:55 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Esther Stouten In-Reply-To: <200403090520.i295KCNh033581@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Bog dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Subject: [h-cost] Bog Dress >Message: 3 > >Does anyone know of good pictures or patterns for a Bog Dress? > >Sidhra Hello Sidhra, If by chance you do mean the Herjolfsnes finds, which as mentioned before actually aren't bog finds, but frequently are called that way. The National Museum of Denmark http://www2.natmus.dk/ has patterns of a female dress, a male tunic, a male coat and a hosen pattern available through their museumshop.shop@natmus.dk or info@natmus.dk , you can mail them and ask for the Herjolfsnes patterns. Every pattern includes a hood pattern. I made the patterns for myself as well as for my husband you can see them here, http://www.gelfling.dds.nl/wardrobe.html http://www.gelfling.dds.nl/herjolfsnes.html and http://home.hccnet.nl/r.vhallem/Dugald'sWorkshop/Wardrobe/14th_century.html They have also the pattern of the Bocksten man costume available. If you are good at drafting your own pattern than you should look here http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/bockhome.html A site with excellent information and diagrams. Good Luck, Morwenna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 09:25:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29EP6Sd009261 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:25:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29EMQcP007865; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:22:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29EMKNe076664; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:22:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14009.mail.yahoo.com (web14009.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i29EMINe076636 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:22:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040309142200.2608.qmail@web14009.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14009.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 14:22:00 GMT Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:22:00 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] KILTS- not just for costume anymore. To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I didn't mean for faire or costume, I meant real life. The comment was kilts have been considered manly among SCA and Faire people, but it appears their popularity is spreading to non-costuming people in the States. --- otsisto wrote: > I have always understood that the Utility kilts are > a modern design and > therefore would not fit in at Renaissance faires, at > least not for the cast. > > De > > -----Original Message----- > Even that may be changing with the advent of the > "utilikilt". This weekend I saw all sorts of men in > "Utilikilts, tee-shirts and sneakers. Black and > khaki > seemed to be more popular than camo. > > > "Frankly I believe they were considered more manly > even before Brave heart. Amongst faire and the SCA > kilts have long seemed to have been admired as > manly, > though less so in normal society. " > > ===== > Señora Catalina > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 10:12:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29FCSSd011660 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:12:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29FBecP011346; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:11:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29FBZNe004791; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:11:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29FBUNe004693 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:11:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.7b.23f30123 (3996) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:11:23 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <7b.23f30123.2d7f389b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:11:23 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] english/french stays To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/9/2004 3:00:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > sorry about the last post. It was ment for another group. > Worry not....that post made me think, the term "English stays" meaning front lacing stays could be really just like calling a sack a robe a la Francaise or a Watteau gown [yuk! I hate that term!]. Yes, it originates in France [and Watteau does paint them] but all are not from France and it is most certainly not only found in France. It's for easy reference. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 10:37:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29Fb9Sd011733 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:37:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29FaRcP013436; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:36:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29FaPNe021207; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:36:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29FaKNe021101 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:36:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 850D742615 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:50:20 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <404DE62B.4080108@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:43:39 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks References: <404D53EC.2040003@dandy.net> In-Reply-To: <404D53EC.2040003@dandy.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO michael tartaglio wrote: > See also comment about "FARB", which is a > variant of snarking which exists in reenacting as a whole. I've seen this word used in a couple different places and I'm not sure I'm getting the meaning of it. Can someone explain "farb" to me please? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 10:41:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29FfwSd011752 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:41:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29FeOcP013879; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:40:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29FeNNe024024; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:40:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from uranium.btinternet.com (uranium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29FeDNe023920 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:40:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stevie.gamble@btinternet.com) Received: from [81.129.116.221] (helo=dan) by uranium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1B0jKz-0005eI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 15:40:09 +0000 Message-ID: <01ae01c405ed$154be560$dd748151@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200403042002.i24K2tql020086@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stays, research, etc. Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:42:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carol wrote: > I may be able to get to my books over the weekend, but meanwhile Mara Riley was kind enough to look up some examples in her library. Mara >is the > author of _Whatever Shall I Wear_, and has been working on stays research for > the last few years. Please pass on my thanks to her! > >I'm getting more confused. Waugh only gives one example of a real set > >of 18th century stays before 1780 and those are front lacing, dated > >1730-40 of unspecified origin; see page 39. Why therefore do you > >suggest that Corset and Crinolines supports the view that the most > >common English 18th century stays were back lacing? > Ok, I see where you're getting confused. I mentioned Corsets & >Crinolines as one of the many books that describes/drafts 18thC stays, aside >from those you cited from the Kyoto collection. I was not looking at C&C for >the conclusions, I was looking for more examples of stays that are out >there. > While there may be mistakes, I do not think she changed the location of the > lacings of stays in her drafts. But the examples given do not support the conclusion you suggest. In your original post of 27th February you said 'From what I've seen, back-lacing stays are the norm... There are a few sets of extant stays that are both front and back lacing, and the back laces appear to be the way they were put on (the holes are more worn on the back). I think there are only one or two sets of front-only lacing stays around, they appear to be very rare. This includes strapless "common" stays that are found in some museum collections, they are also most commonly back-lacing.' Waugh doesn't actually give any provenance for the 3 sets of stays on pages 42-4 or the set on page 39, so we don't know whether these are English stays or not. Even if we assume, for the sake of argument, that they are, then the 1730-40 stays on page 39 are described by Waugh as front lacing, though the diagram also shows lacing holes at the back. There are no mid century stays, the next being dated 1780, after my period of interest, but those are backlacing only. The stays on page 43 dated to 1793 are short, lace centre front and back, and the stays on page 44 dated to the late 1790s are of unstiffened linen, and only lightly boned, and also lace back and halfway up the front. Thus there is only one pair of stays out of 4 in C&C for the relevant period which are only backlacing. This does not support the argument that these were 'the norm' > > >But in any event, why do you imagine that a French publication, even > >if she had managed to get it right, is an authoritative source on > >English clothing construction? > > You're the one who cited Garsault. Isn't that French? For the reasons I cited in my post of 29th February, which you seem to have missed, so I repeat it below: 'Garsault's front lacing corps a l'anglaise pattern was printed in 1769, which suggests that French tailors had been making front lacing stays long before the late 18th century, and regarded them as English in origin. ... Remember, I am interested in English stays of a particular period; an aristocratic Englishwoman with fashionable pretentions might well have bought stays in Paris, particularly if she was paying for new gowns to be made also, but that's the limit of the known world as far as fashion was concerned. Particularly when attending a Ball in Bath, fashionable Mecca for the upper classes...' There is no doubt that English styles, particularly in the first half of the 18th century, required dramatically different underwear to French fashions. The stays worn by the 'straitlaced' Englishwoman under those styles were higher at the neck and lower on the hip, and flattened the bust to the point of invisibility. It could not be worn under the sack or indeed, any of the fashions we recognise from the heyday of the Rococo in France. Englishwomen could, and indeed, did buy French styles of stays in Paris, or London. Nichole's 'French and English Staymaker' of 349 Oxford St, London, offered those different styles of stays (see Jane Ashelford, The Art of Dress' 1996, page 151). Take your pick between English stays made in France or French stays made in England... There is also no doubt that aristocratic women had a number of different sets of stays, to wear under different garments. The English Court set no fashions, since dress there was generally regarded as archaic to the point of lunacy, but women who attended the Court had to wear particular stays under Court dress. As late as 1773, when the English Court had at last admitted the sack-which naturally went out of fashion finally shortly afterwards- women were required to wear 'heart shaped stays'. These would have looked ludicrous under Vandyke costumes and even sillier under the tube dresses which had been popular for some years before they catapaulted into high fashion under the auspices of Marie Antoinette's chemise a la reine. Also the Kyoto > collection and _Revolution in Fashion_ are Japanese. Mia mentioned that this > collection may also have a bias. Um, since I have not cited 'Revolution in Fashion' I am not sure of its relevance... More seriously, all collections have bias. The Museum of London has very extensive clothing holdings, but for the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries high quality fashionable dress predominates. The Kyoto collection also is heavily biased in the same direction, with the difference that it is, of course, owned by Wacoal, which is one of Japan's largest lingerie manufacturers, and therefore has a particularly comprehensive collection of undergarments. It is therefore a very useful bias for someone in search of underpinnings for high fashion garments. Kyoto also has far more funds for purchases and specialist employees, to the extent where it has pioneered a new form of mannequin which is now used by a number of other museums. > >You are confusing Diderot with Garsault, see my notes above. > Ok, you're right there, sorry about that. So Diderot only copied > Garsault's work and did not actually research the lacing configurations > himself? Yes. All of the French enclycopedias were based on Garsault's work, which Aileen Ribairo describes as 'the most important treatise on tailoring in the period 1715-1789' see page 65 'Dress in Eighteenth Century Europe' revised edition 2002. You should note also that aristocratic Englishmen, with fashionable pretentions, as well as Englishwomen, had their suits made in Paris for most of the 18th century; again, Ribairo goes into very considerable detail. >Also a French (Garsault's) idea of what was English, is >actually what > was commonly worn in England? That isn't what I said, see above. > >But you still haven't cited any evidence which you base your opinions on. > Ok, here goes! > _Corsets and Crinolines_ > p. 39 - 1730-1740: laces front (over stomacher) and back. Yellow > brocade... > > p. 42, 1780, half-boned stays in red silk damask: lace in back only. You've omitted 2 other pairs of stays, see above. > _What Clothes Reveal_: I would note that the remainder of the title is: The Language of Clothing in Colonial and Federal America This is not an analysis of clothing in Europe, and I'm pretty sure that Linda Baumgarten would not wish anyone to claim that it was. Museum curators tend to be funny that way... >Two English, one American, all back-lacing. > p. 40, woman's stays from Britain , 1770-1785: Back-lacing only, silk outside > covering, no straps. I'm a bit confused here; which stays are dated when? > p. 122 -- leather stays (children's, according to the caption), Britain, 1760- > 1780 -- lace back, front and sides. Um, as far as I am aware children's stays were not indicative of the structure of women's stays. Unsurprisingly, really... > p. 150 -- front-lacing stays, strapless, possibly American, 1760-1775. > (comments below are Mara Riley's) > Yes, front lacing only -- these are the exception to the rule. The covering > fabric is wool. They're lined with blue/white checked linen; definitely > working class. I haven't seen any strapless stays in my review so far, and there is no mention of these in any of the standard texts on European clothes; I wonder if these are American style, possibly deriving from non-English settlors. The most common lower working class stays in England were leather, see Francis Place, cited by Ribeiro. > Linda Baumgarten, curator of cotum at the De Witt Wallace Gallery, Williamsburg > says about these stays: > "Stays with front lacings may have served as maternity clothing and would have > been equally useful during breast-feeding. A pair of front-lacing stays has a > rather large waist in proportion to the bust, suggesting maternity wear; they > measure thirty-two-nand-a-half inches at the chest and twenty-nine inches at > the waist (fig. 208). The stays are quite heavy, constructed from brown > worsted wool, boned with baleen, and lined with coarse linen." Indeed; obviously working class. I note again that she is speaking in the context of colonial and federal America. These hypotheses are interesting for that time and place, but her observations on women in society, also to be found on the Williamsburg website, are so clearly untrue of England in the 18th century that it emphasises, yet again, the dangers of taking comments out of context. The difficulty is that you are citing these observations as if they are some kind of universal truth, when all societies are particular... > p. 211, three pairs of stays > 1st -- Strapless, from Britain, 1740-1760, linen boned with baleen and wood, > waist tabs removed at a later date (possibly for use as boys' stays) Back > lacing only, plain fabric. Again, lower class. > 2nd -- Beige stays with straps, Britain, 1780, cotton lined with linen, boned > with baleen. This has that partial lacing in front, stopping about halfway > down. > 3rd -- white stays with straps, New York, probably worn by Ann Van Renselaer, > 1780-1790, cotton boned with wood or cane. Again, partial lacing in the center > front. It does not appear to have occurred to you that items which found their way to America, or were constructed there, might not have been a representative sample of items worn by the English, or indeed, European population of different classes. Again, these issues are central to historical study. I appreciate that many people find statistics to be boring, but an awareness of those principles is essential for the drawing of any kind of remotely reliable conclusions... _Revolution in Fashion_: > p. 47, 49: > Corset, English, c. 1775, cotton and whalebone, back lacing, center front sewn > together (laces part-way down). > > p. 100: Left: Corset, c. 1760, with laced-on sleeves. Laces front and back. > > Center: Child's corset, back-lacing, mid-18th c. > > Right: corset, early 18th c., back and side lacing, pocket for busk at center > front. > > There's a picture (English) of a woman being laced into stays on p.152 of RIF. > They lace in front, and you can't see the back. > > > So, we have front & back lacing, and back lacing only, and only one set of > front-lacing-only stays, which are utilitarian and possibly for maternity/ > nursing wear, not high fashion. Thank you. This still doesn't justify your original statement that back lacing stays were the norm, even if we forget the existence of two sets of stays in C&C and rely on only two other books, one of which is specifically about clothing in colonial and federal America. > Mara could not tell which stays in _Revolution in Fashion_ you thought > were front-lacing only. Is it a different book that you are citing? Yes. What I actually said (I seem to be repeating that phrase rather a lot) was: the three sets of 18th century women's English stays shown on pages 130-131 of 'Fashion', Kyoto Costume Institute are all front lacing. > So I thought you meant what was normally worn by most people, not that you > were looking for examples for lower class. I didn't say that either. A fashionable Englishwoman attending a ball in one of the most fashionable places in England would wear stays appropriate to her class and her gown, see above. Hence, my interest in that subject. > > >I am not aware of any fashion magazines in England sent to the English > >colonies in America before 1770 or so. > > Ok, so since your cut-off date is 1770, anything after that is irrelevant > to your project? The heyday of the Rococo was well and truly over by 1770, and since I am trying to construct a Rococo gown I need the right underpinnings. I have no intention of essaying the foot high hairstyle of post 1770, at least this year. > > As for the belief that American fashion could mirror the heights > >of the art achieved in Western Europe during that period, I am > >not aware of any garment created in the colonies which could > >make that claim. > There was imported clothing and that which the English governors and their > wives brought with them. Probably not as high a quality as the king or queen > would wear, no. And again, I was looking at your statement of "reasonably > common practise", which to me is different from the height of fashion. No, that was in reference to the lacing position of stays. Bath was a mecca for fashionable people, which by definition excluded the king and queen of England. > >all individuals in the colonies who aspired to something beyond > >'Barbie dressed as an English gentlewoman' could do was to send > >their measurements and thus import expensive knock-offs which > >bore little resemblance to the real thing, or visit Europe in > >the hope of getting gowns made which were the real thing, but which > >were out of date by the time the ship had reached America on their > >return voyage. > Most of the original stays I've examined have been in American museums. > Not everything in American museums was used in America, they buy at > international auctions, have items that were purchased by collectors who bought > in other countries, etc. Many times what survives, and ends up in major > collections, is the haute coture. You haven't actually cited these haute couture stays, though. >So this is included in what I'm talking > about when I mention reenactors who are studying stays. Though reenacting a > particular era, we look at whatever we can to get a sense of what existed both > before and after our period of interest. Indeed, but this emphasises my point about history being particular, not general. Aileen Ribeiro's masterwork on European dress is an attempt to patch together vast numbers of sources about a vast area. But she doesn't do so by making sweeping generalisations about one particular garment for the whole of the 18th century for the whole of Europe, much less two continents. > That items worn in America in the 18th century were out of > date - well, sure, three months to the major ports and six months to reach the frontier. High fashion for most of the 18th century was dominated by the French. At the beginning of the period silk patterns changed yearly, by mid-century silk patterns changed seasonally; it was physically impossible for those patterns to reach America before they had been superceded. To make matters worse, much of fashion lay in the trimmings which had to be replaced very quickly; silk gauze could not be washed, and silver or metal lace tarnished so quickly it was burnt to reclaim the metal, and new lace purchased. And of course the style of the trimmings changed very rapidly... > But while three months behind London, someone in Philadelphia would be on the > cutting edge of fashion in that city. Er, yes. But those gowns would have been laughed at by fashionable Europeans as being hopelessly demode. The French laughed at the English, who were a great deal closer... >Three months is not much time compared > to the twenty year time span of your interest. My interest is in the Rococo; hence the timespan. The underlying shape of the gown did not change all that much; the silks and the trimmings did. > >Your assumption is ill founded; I am constructing my front lacing > >stays with horizontal bones, and it creates a rounded shape. Again, if > >you look at page 130, Fashion, you will see that the front lacing > >stays do have horizontal bones. > So you're using two horizontal bones, split in the middle? There must be > a balance, then, of the flexibility of the bones. On some originals, the > horizontal boning is thick enough that it would form a point in the front if it > were divided, rather than making a curved front as it does with a solid piece. > But with a thinner piece of baleen it may work. I'll also be interested to > hear about your results! Well, I'm using Wissner's boning, which is not baleen; it is much stiffer due presumably to the larger width. But it seems to work fine, once the stays are laced. I don't regard my interest in the Rococo as justifying slaughtering whales! > > >> My favorite draft is from Corsets & Crinolies, a > >> mid-century set of stays that lace both front & back, > >> with a stomacher as part of the stays. > > > >I can't find these, what page are they on, please? > > Page 39. Which are actually dated 1730-40, in C&C, and described by Waugh as having a separate stomacher and front lacing, presumably from the wear patterns, hence my being unable to find them:-) > Anyway, I don't know if this makes any difference in your project. Mara > and I are both interested in the idea of a survey of as many sets of stays as > we can track down. Great idea! It will help us determine what is consistent > and it will be fun ot see where there are variations in the apparent norm. Well, I fear my statistics tutor brainwashed me to the extent that I still wince every time I hear the word norm misused, but I have arranged to visit the extremely understaffed Museum of London to examine the 18th century stays in their collection. I'll happily pass on my observations to you. thanks and best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 10:52:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29FqMSd011818 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:52:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29FpXcP014914; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:51:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29FpTNe032023; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:51:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from uranium.btinternet.com (uranium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29FpPNe031964 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:51:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stevie.gamble@btinternet.com) Received: from [81.129.116.221] (helo=dan) by uranium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1B0jVr-0006mn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 15:51:23 +0000 Message-ID: <01b801c405ee$a573c6c0$dd748151@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:53:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Museum of London: Good and bad news... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I was speaking to Edwina Ehrmann who is the Curator of the Dress and Decorative Arts department at the Museum of London yesterday, and she tells me that the Museum will have a major exhibition this autumn with an accompanying book, working title 'London: World Fashion City' with clothing from 1800 onwards. This is the good news. The bad news is that they have a very long delay in private visits to examine parts of the collection; my appointment there to examine their 18th century stays is not until 29th April. So anyone wishing to make a similar appointment should get on to them as soon as possible, bearing in mind also that such visits are only available on Thursdays. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 11:09:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29G9XSd011898 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:09:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29G8kcP016549; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:08:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29G8gNe044565; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:08:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9405.mail.yahoo.com (web9405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i29G8JNe044294 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:08:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040309160817.99982.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 08:08:17 PST Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:08:17 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Bog dress To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040309081555.016c3598@pop.dds.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Morwenna --thanks so much for sharing this site and info! Albra Esther Stouten wrote: >Subject: [h-cost] Bog Dress >Message: 3 > >Does anyone know of good pictures or patterns for a Bog Dress? > >Sidhra Hello Sidhra, If by chance you do mean the Herjolfsnes finds, which as mentioned before actually aren't bog finds, but frequently are called that way. The National Museum of Denmark http://www2.natmus.dk/ has patterns of a female dress, a male tunic, a male coat and a hosen pattern available through their museumshop.shop@natmus.dk or info@natmus.dk , you can mail them and ask for the Herjolfsnes patterns. Every pattern includes a hood pattern. I made the patterns for myself as well as for my husband you can see them here, http://www.gelfling.dds.nl/wardrobe.html http://www.gelfling.dds.nl/herjolfsnes.html and http://home.hccnet.nl/r.vhallem/Dugald'sWorkshop/Wardrobe/14th_century.html They have also the pattern of the Bocksten man costume available. If you are good at drafting your own pattern than you should look here http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/bockhome.html A site with excellent information and diagrams. Good Luck, Morwenna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 11:23:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29GNdSd012018 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:23:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29GMvcP018007; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:22:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29GMtNe055397; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:22:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29GMoNe055278 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:22:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.1e2.1ae33a95 (4206) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:17:32 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1e2.1ae33a95.2d7f481c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:17:32 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/9/2004 9:36:56 AM Central Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: I've seen this word used in a couple different places and I'm not sure I'm getting the meaning of it. Can someone explain "farb" to me please? Dawn http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/1422/forigin.html Dawn, here is the best article that I've ever been able to find on the origin of the term and what it was originally intended to mean. I think nowadays, what it refers to varies from group to group and even person to person. To some, it means the knowing and intentional wearing or using of anachronistic materials or objects in your impression. To others, it's anyone who's doing anything un-period, whether they realize it or not. The website also on other pages goes a bit into TBG (Tubby Bearded Guy) and firper (First Person). It's a good article, enjoy! -Tiff "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 11:30:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29GUDSd012045 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:30:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29GAOcP016790; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:10:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29GAONe045839; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:10:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29GANNe045757 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:10:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (v92.16) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-4404dec6424d; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 11:10:12 -0500 Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.98.54fd8b2 (4206) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:04:35 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <98.54fd8b2.2d7f4513@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:04:35 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] KILTS- not just for costume anymore. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/9/2004 8:23:25 AM Central Standard Time, ladyforbeys@yahoo.com writes: The comment was kilts have been considered manly among SCA and Faire people, but it appears their popularity is spreading to non-costuming people in the States. Like ... ummm ... Richard Hatch??? LOL -Tiff "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 12:11:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29HBiSd012211 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:11:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29GVDcP018984; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:31:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29GV9Ne061789; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:31:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29GV2Ne061628 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:31:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:30:55 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Beta Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:30:40 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > See also comment about "FARB", which is a > variant of snarking which exists in reenacting as a whole. I've seen this word used in a couple different places and I'm not sure I'm getting the meaning of it. Can someone explain "farb" to me please? Dawn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Me too, since I used the word farble, but around here it has a generally positive meaning, sort of a conversational amoeba :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 12:20:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29HKLSd012252 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:20:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29HJacP024219; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:19:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29HJWNe000986; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:19:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out007.verizon.net (out007pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29HJRNe000944 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:19:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([141.152.142.51]) by out007.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040309171335.UDAG28276.out007.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:13:35 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks and farbs Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:13:31 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <404DE62B.4080108@reddawn.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out007.verizon.net from [141.152.142.51] at Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:13:34 -0600 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Dawn > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:44 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks > > > michael tartaglio wrote: > > > See also comment about "FARB", which is a > > variant of snarking which exists in reenacting as a whole. > > I've seen this word used in a couple different places and I'm not sure > I'm getting the meaning of it. Can someone explain "farb" to me please? > > > > Dawn > Farb is a word used in the reenacting world as a derogatory comment towards another who is perceived to be less authentic then oneself, or more recently to describe inauthentic items themselves that may in fact be in you own possession. Some time in that later use it will be used as farby. Many LH groups are in fact very snarky, but thanks to groups having minimum standards the snarkiness is usual directed towards other groups. There used to be two definitions floating around describing the words origins, but the only one I remember is the one Michael (who is no farb) mentioned earlier, that being "Far be it (from either authentic or for me to say anything). Frankly I suspect that it started some other way entirely. When an SCA snark says your garb is inauthentic, or post period, the typical reenactor would say your uniform is farb, or would tell his "pards" that you or your unit was farb. The word is usually not meant to mean new recruits or fresh fish. Most units help these people by providing them with loaner gear, sometimes with a minimum time limit for them to provide there own, typically a year. By the way, I didn't use the word typical above (typical reenactor) to suggest a higher level of snarkiness at LH events. What makes a farb is in reality a sliding scale. There is a popular little joke with much truth to it that anyone less authentic then yourself is a farb, anyone more so is Anal retentive or a Stitch counter. This of course implies that the only one is has the correct balance is the observer himself! By the bye, there seemed to be some annoyance at the suggestion that the SCA has no standards, but it really doesn't. The only standard as set to paper is "a reasonable attempt at pre-1600". Now as a standard that is pretty loose, I mean how do you define reasonable attempt? Is my reasonable the same as yours? However even this standard has no enforcement. It is really a guideline rather than a standard. This was a busy thread over on the authentic-sca list some short time ago. Cheers, Ron _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 12:37:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29HbQSd012363 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:37:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29HaYcP025962; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:36:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29HaMNe014447; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:36:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:ddQ8ziNbgNYN1HzMQp/ai9eZMVjhMIgm@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29HaHNe014395 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:36:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i29HaGhO015615 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:36:16 -0500 Message-Id: <200403091736.i29HaGhO015615@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:36:02 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks and farbs From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ron Carnegie said: > When an SCA snark says your garb is inauthentic, or post period, the > typical reenactor would say your uniform is farb, or would tell his "pards" > that you or your unit was farb. The word is usually not meant to mean new > recruits or fresh fish. Most units help these people by providing them with > loaner gear, sometimes with a minimum time limit for them to provide there > own, typically a year. By the way, I didn't use the word typical above > (typical reenactor) to suggest a higher level of snarkiness at LH events. Also, a person who is a farb is the type who is not willing to change. Their motto - "I've been doing this since 1976 and it was fine back then!" Those new to the various periods might wear, own, or do something that is farby. There is a lot of misinformation out there, and suppliers eager to sell items that move well whether or not they are correct. We do try to be kind to the new people, but often they are overwhelmed with the (unsolicited) "helpful advice". Really it's in a perfect world where the new reenactor consults with the clothing inspector before making or buying anything. But often it's someone brought along by another member, who figures it's ok to be lax at their first event, etc. Having played both with the SCA and reenactment groups, I have found less snarkiness in reenactment. And maybe it's because the SCA snark stories are so much more colorful? :-) -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 12:51:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29Hp0Sd012408 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:51:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29HoNcP027419; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:50:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29HoKNe025945; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:50:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29Ho8Nf025781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:50:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i29HnlPV009665 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:49:47 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 12:49:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <404E03C5.5070700@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 12:49:57 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks and farbs References: <200403091736.i29HaGhO015615@jefferson.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <200403091736.i29HaGhO015615@jefferson.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Status: RO aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: > Having played both with the SCA and reenactment groups, I have found less > snarkiness in reenactment. And maybe it's because the SCA snark stories are so > much more colorful? :-) It's probably regional. I haven't encountered very much snarkiness in the SCA groups I've played in. And although snarking does happen in the SCA, the stories get passed around, so 10 people might tell a story about one incident, which makes in seem like there were really 10 incidents. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent From LoTR, the movie EE: Legolas: Lembas! One bite will fill a man's stomach! Pippin, to Merry: How many did *you* eat? Merry, whimpering: ... four... (belch) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 12:52:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29HqmSd012421 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:52:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29Hq9cP027673; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:52:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29Hq7Ne027521; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:52:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from thrednedlestrete.com (mail02.enterhost.com [69.93.13.234]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29Hq0Ne027367 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:52:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:51:49 -0600 Message-Id: <200403091151.AA64290884@thrednedlestrete.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks and farbs X-Mailer: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Really it's in a perfect world where the new reenactor consults with the >clothing inspector before making or buying anything. But often it's someone >brought along by another member, who figures it's ok to be lax at their first >event, etc. > The group I was in previously had an annual pre-season vetting session for all gear/clothing just to make sure that new knowledge was continuously applied. I love it! Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 13:25:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29IP5Sd012554 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:25:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29IO1cP000817; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29INwNe053412; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:23:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29INpNf053289 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:23:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i29IdZo8016918 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:39:36 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040309101540.070d6570@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:23:42 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks In-Reply-To: <200403091736.i29HaGhO015615@jefferson.patriot.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is there any kind of newbie dispensation? Should I wear a sign around my neck that says "I'm new and don't know much yet, but the next garb will be better"? I'll be attending my first SCA activity this weekend with my husband, each in a leine made from a plaid flannel sheet . The pattern is from Kass, but the fabric is what is at hand (the saffron linen hasn't arrived yet) ... Katie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 13:51:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29IpwSd012677 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:51:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29Ip8cP003524; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:51:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29Ip5Ne074421; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:51:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pd8mo3no.prod.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo2no.cg.shawcable.net [64.59.134.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29IovNe074274 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:50:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marga@shaw.ca) Received: from pd7mr1no.prod.shaw.ca (pd7mr1no-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.144.128]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HUB002SAO44VF@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 11:45:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from shaw.ca ([10.0.145.163]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HUB00MHOO44D9@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 11:45:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [10.0.144.81] by pd8ims1.prod.shaw.ca (mshttpd); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:45:40 -0800 Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:45:40 -0800 From: Margaret Sutherland Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks and farbs To: Historical Costume Message-id: <721f9072478b.72478b721f90@shaw.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Cynthia Virtue wrote: >I haven't encountered very much snarkiness in the SCA groups I've played in. I haven't either, in fact I find everyone has been incredibly kind and quick to praise even the smallest effort. I'm still a relative newbie - but people are still kidding me (in a good way) 'cause they remember I came to my first event wearing a head-veil secured with bands, which I got from Cynthia's site - thanks, eh!? *grin* http://www.virtue.to/articles/veils.html Alienor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 13:58:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29IwaSd012702 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:58:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29IvtcP004242; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:57:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29IvrNe079794; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:57:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29IvhNe079609 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:57:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.1df.1ae54658 (4206) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:57:30 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1df.1ae54658.2d7f6d9a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:57:30 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/9/2004 12:24:47 PM Central Standard Time, Katie@katiesorchids.com writes: Is there any kind of newbie dispensation? Should I wear a sign around my neck that says "I'm new and don't know much yet, but the next garb will be better"? Katie, In an ideal world, there would be no one who was ever rude to anyone else, by word or look, about their garb. Unfortunately every event you ever attend will also be attended by a large number of other human beings, who will run the gamut from friendly and accepting, to snotty and condescending. Even when you get your garb really well researched and established, you may still run into people who are just ugly to you. The best way to approach any type of event is simply to do what you can with what you have to do with, and then go with the mindset that if people have a problem with what you're wearing, it's *their* problem, *not* yours. For every nasty person you might possibly see, there will be two dozen who are friendly, helpful and glad that you're there. You may be fortunate enough to *never* run into anyone who's unkind, and I sincerely hope that is your experience. But don't ever, ever let anyone who is unkind, ruin or even dampen your fun - you're there for you, not them! -Tiff "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 14:39:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29Jd3Sd012878 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:39:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29Jc3cP007935; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:38:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29Jc0Ne010050; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:38:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14009.mail.yahoo.com (web14009.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i29JbqNe009962 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:37:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040309193750.56617.qmail@web14009.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14009.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 19:37:49 GMT Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:37:49 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200403091151.AA64290884@thrednedlestrete.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Garb help for newbies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > The group I was in previously had an annual > pre-season vetting session for all gear/clothing > just to make sure that new knowledge was > continuously applied. I love it! > > > Lisa Sinervo > > -Ideally you have a Clothier's Guild to help new people get garb and help with authenticity. I used to be Guildmistress for one, and I would have people come over to look at patterns, look at garb, etc. I also hosted a monthly "class" on some type of garb and arranged weekend "fabric outings" to help new people distinguish fabric types and learn what fabric is generally appropriate for what period. I found this to be helpful no matter what reenactment group you belong to. Catalina ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 14:46:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29JkiSd012907 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:46:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29JjtcP008729; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:45:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29JjrNe016357; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:45:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14003.mail.yahoo.com (web14003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i29JjmNe016281 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:45:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040309194546.22089.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 19:45:46 GMT Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:45:46 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] FARB. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO simply put, "Far Be it from me to criticize someone's less than authentic gear." >> > > > > See also comment about "FARB", which is a > > > variant of snarking which exists in reenacting > as a whole. > > > > I've seen this word used in a couple different > places and I'm not sure > > I'm getting the meaning of it. Can someone explain > "farb" to me please? > > > > > > > > Dawn ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 14:48:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29JmpSd012917 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:48:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29Jm6cP008967; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:48:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29Jm4Ne018044; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:48:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29JlxNe017926 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:48:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyro@comcast.net) Received: from lightfoot (pcp04615791pcs.gambrl01.md.comcast.net[68.50.121.37]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20040309194245016006o5ete>; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:42:45 +0000 Message-ID: <02b301c4060e$6a72be30$0500a8c0@lightfoot> From: "Ro" To: References: <200403091901.i29J12Nf082233@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:40:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wore a HUGE button to my first event. "I'm new - be nice to me" Didn't help.... Ro http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Ro Message: 10 Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:23:42 -0800 From: Katie Pleasance Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040309101540.070d6570@mail.katiesorchids.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Is there any kind of newbie dispensation? Should I wear a sign around my neck that says "I'm new and don't know much yet, but the next garb will be better"? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 14:50:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29JorSd012924 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:50:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29Jo7cP009182; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:50:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29Jo5Ne019548; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:50:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out009.verizon.net (out009pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.131]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29JnvNe019440 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:49:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([141.152.142.51]) by out009.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040309194018.FVEK29216.out009.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:40:18 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:40:13 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040309101540.070d6570@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out009.verizon.net from [141.152.142.51] at Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:40:16 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Don't let these discussions deter you. Threads like the current one can easily make these things seem worse than they are. Very few organizations that I have ever seen in any context consist of large numbers of people waiting around to insult others. It is not nearly as bad as conversations like this can make it seem. Cheers and good luck Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Katie Pleasance > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 1:24 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks > > > Is there any kind of newbie dispensation? Should I wear a sign around my > neck that says "I'm new and don't know much yet, but the next > garb will be > better"? > > I'll be attending my first SCA activity this weekend with my > husband, each > in a leine made from a plaid flannel sheet . The pattern is from > Kass, but the fabric is what is at hand (the saffron linen hasn't arrived > yet) ... > > Katie > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/m ailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 14:58:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29JwpSd012963 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:58:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29Jw4cP009990; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:58:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29Jw3Ne025711; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:58:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29JvwNe025590 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:57:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:57:52 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Beta Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:57:37 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Garb snarks and farbs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm still a relative newbie - but people are still kidding me (in a good way) 'cause they remember I came to my first event wearing a head-veil secured with bands, which I got from Cynthia's site - thanks, eh!? *grin* http://www.virtue.to/articles/veils.html Alienor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Love that site! But you reminded me of a snark; took a friend to her first SCA event a year or two ago. I had made her a pretty nice cotehardie (not up to Robin's standards, but not to bad if I do say so :) ) and she allowed me to try Cynthia's head-veil method on her. Half-way through the event one of our peers walked up to her, looked her up and down and said she should have pinned the veil in the front, then walked off. Fortunately my friend found it an amusing experience :). I do agree however that there is not an excessive amount of snarking in the SCA but rather that a lot of the SCA snarking stories get retold and retold. Hmmmm, maybe that helps remind folks to not snark :). Katie; go and have a ton of fun and if anyone snarks just thank them for being so kind and helpful to someone at their first event! Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 15:09:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29K9USd013027 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:09:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29JwmcP010063; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:58:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29JwkNe026307; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:58:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41306.mail.yahoo.com (web41306.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i29JweNe026179 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:58:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aureliarufinia@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040309195153.67675.qmail@web41306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.166.19.102] by web41306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 11:51:53 PST Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:51:53 -0800 (PST) From: Aurelia Rufinia To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200403091901.i29J12Ng082233@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was fortunate enough to have a decent skirt and bodice (generic, but acceptable) for my first set of garb. And then I Saw The Light and became Roman. ::grins:: The closest thing I've had to a garb snark is a few people saying (in varying degrees of snottiness) "But Romans don't _belong_ in the SCA!" To them I say, take a deep breath and deal. The thing is, there aren't a lot of people in the SCA who know much about Roman womens clothing (or much about Roman mens, either, but you can fake it pretty good with a t-tunic). And so every so often, I have people come up to me and expect me to be gushing over their new garb that, quote, they "made out of what they saw in _Gladiator_!" And I have to gently say that no, the women's costumes in Gladiator were mostly not even close (there was one where I could see where they thought they were going, but mostly didn't) and not seem snarky, and I think I pretty much fail every time. Even though I'm trying to be constructive, they take it as I'm just a mean person. (Most common retort: "Well, *I* like it!" and flouncing off.) Many people in my old Barony have used my methods in good ways, which is awesome, but it's still frusterating when people ask for my opion, and hten don't like what they think they hear. ::grumble:: Aurelia/Reidan (Who hasn't been too terribly amused with her household on this and similar subjects lately) ===== Baroness Aurelia Rufinia House Iron Maiden, Barony of Carolingia, East Kingdom, Northshield Ex-Pat "And was there a lesson in all this? Huh? What did we learn about beer?" "Foamy!" "Good. Just as long as that's clear." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 15:10:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29KALSd013043 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:10:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29JxXcP010133; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:59:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29JxWNe026899; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:59:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scc074.its.state.nc.us (scc074.its.state.nc.us [207.4.22.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29JxQNe026772 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:59:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Ellen.Dappert@ncmail.net) Received: from scc074.its.state.nc.us (127.0.0.1) by scc074.its.state.nc.us (6.5.029) id 401CD583001A7824 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:59:19 -0500 Received: from ncmail.net (207.4.90.6) by scc074.its.state.nc.us (6.5.029) id 401CD580001A0AAF for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:59:18 -0500 Message-ID: <404E2231.723449A6@ncmail.net> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 14:59:45 -0500 From: Ellen Dappert Organization: NC-DJJDP / District 26 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200403091901.i29J12Nf082233@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:snarks/farbs/ X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Snarking, what a lovely term Pretty recently I have decided that you can’t tell anyone anything if they don't want to hear. Minds are made up in all kinds of subjects. Basically, you can lead a horse to water, but yopu can't make him think. I often wish in American historic reenactment/living history there was some indicator of the level of authenticity to warn the spectator, like a red ribbon on the tail of a horse that kicks. Categories coulld be: We are here theme camping with the family…don’t expect our outfits to be authentic or for us to know loads about the era. or We are committed to portraying the era as authentically as we can. or We make compromises, We will not slaughter whales to make stays. or I'm new, teach me or I know everthing in the world. etc. etc. etc. All points are equally valid Mia in Charlotte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 15:19:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29KJ0Sd013129 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:19:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29KFVcP011561; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:15:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29KFTNe039473; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:15:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29KFMNe039407 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:15:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3C2B1D123 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:15:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p409.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.155]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D0F4FC5D6 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:15:19 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] KILTS- not just for costume anymore. Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:15:36 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20040309142200.2608.qmail@web14009.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah, Now I see. De -----Original Message----- I didn't mean for faire or costume, I meant real life. The comment was kilts have been considered manly among SCA and Faire people, but it appears their popularity is spreading to non-costuming people in the States. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 15:36:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29KaWSd013241 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:36:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29KZccP013579; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:35:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29KZXNe055289; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:35:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29KZUNe055245 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:35:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0161D0C6 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:35:30 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p409.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.155]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 12CF5C438 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:35:29 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:35:45 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ditto De -----Original Message----- Me too, since I used the word farble, but around here it has a generally positive meaning, sort of a conversational amoeba :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 16:43:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29Lh7Sd013648 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:43:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29LgEcP020120; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:42:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29LgANe008836; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:42:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29Lg4Ne008790 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:42:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by fallback01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i29LeMD14567 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:40:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.167.41] (helo=wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B0oxY-0007fB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:40:20 -0500 Message-ID: <16443507.1078868420573.JavaMail.root@wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:40:20 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Katie wrote: >Is there any kind of newbie dispensation? Should I wear a sign around my >neck that says "I'm new and don't know much yet, but the next garb will be >better"? > >I'll be attending my first SCA activity this weekend with my husband, each >in a leine made from a plaid flannel sheet . The pattern is from >Kass, but the fabric is what is at hand (the saffron linen hasn't arrived >yet) ... Katie, you shouldn't need the sign. You already have much better armor. Here it is: (1) you KNOW that you are new, (2) you are interested, you WANT to do better and you are asking questions, (3) you KNOW that you have done the absolute best that you can right now, (4) you KNOW how to make it better next time, and (5) you know the next thing you make WILL be better. Confidence in these things will be your helmet, breastplate, greaves ...and all those other armor parts I don't know the names of yet :)) If someone is rude enough to make unpleasant comments (which I think we've established is actually rather rare, though it does happen), take a deep breath, smile, and say "Thanks for your comments. I know the next one will be better." But you are far more likely to receive a warm welcome, I think. Let us know how it goes. ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 16:45:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29LjSSd013658 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:45:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29LifcP020379; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:44:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29LicNe010769; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:44:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29LiZNe010713 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:44:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B0p1b-000EUZ-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:44:32 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:39:38 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb Snarks or Snacks References: <006801c404b1$85fa6a80$cb388b3f@39jz301> <404C9373.5825.3DA97814@localhost> In-Reply-To: <404C9373.5825.3DA97814@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO kat@grendal.rain.com wrote > >> The silk in Target was actually a silk *knit*. Dupionni, especially >> if you buy it at an East Indian store, also has a distinctive smell >> that is somewhat different than noile. I can pick up either. > >If you buy it in an East Indian store it's going to have the >distinctive odor of the incense that they burn in almost every shop >I've been in. (I personally like it and it's one of the few incenses >that doesn't make me have sneezing, watery eyes and itching body just >being around it. Craft stores on the other hand...) > >But then, that's going to be nothing like what you smell in Target >(which would probably be more likely to have the formaldehyde >fumigation that most facric store warehouses have.) > >Kat > > I always assumed this was from the dye. Black silk in particular stinks when you iron it, but it also leaks colour like anything, so I thought it was just a lot of excess dye. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 18:07:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29N7XSd014336 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:07:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29N6fcP028554; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:06:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i29N6bNe074183; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:06:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lycos.com (www5.mail.lycos.com [209.202.220.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i29N6TNe074081 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:06:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katie_lewis@mailcity.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 22:59:24 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:59:24 -0500 From: "Katie Lewis" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: on X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] KILTS X-Sender-Ip: 129.219.100.96 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --------- Original Message --------- DATE: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:19:42 From: AlbertCat@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: >These are great! It is amazing how they look fine on the Scottish gentleman >[actually the look my friend is going for] and wonderfully hooty on the sex >kittens. > >But he'll never spring for them. What about ghillies? They are incredibly easy to make, inexpensive at around $10-$20 for materials and look cool with a kilt. Plus they were actually worn with kilts. -Katie (Who, if she is going to be ravished would prefer to be ravished by someone in authentic clothing) --- Willow: No, Ma, hear this! I'm a rebel! I'm having a rebellion! Sheila: Willow, honey, you don't need to act out like this to prove your specialness. Willow: Mom, I'm not acting out. I'm a witch! I-I can make pencils float. And I can summon the four elements. Okay, two, but four soon. A-and I'm dating a musician.I worship Beelzebub. I do his biddings. Do you see any goats around? No, because I sacrificed them. Sheila:I'm not listening to this. Willow:Prince of Night, I summon you. Come fill me with your black, naughty evil. ____________________________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 20:13:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A1DoSd015030 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:13:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A1D6cP009730; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:13:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A1CwNe059966; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:12:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A1CqNe059910 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:12:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200403100112.i2A1CqNe059910@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 51-md50000000003.tmp for ; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:06:53 -0800 From: To: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:07:01 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcQGCSR/rpX/zBNhTjWsdKhLJkqw7QAMk0TA In-Reply-To: <200403091901.i29J12Ng082233@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:06:53 -0800 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Bog dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Why is it that I always see the 10-gore referred to as 10th century Icelandic garb? Is the 10-gore the same thing as the bog dress and the Herjolfsnes dress #38? I remember going to the A&S symposium (SCA) in Seattle a few years back and there was a class on it. The handout I got said 10th century, but Marc Carlson's site says 14th century. Becky ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:08:17 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Bog dress To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <20040309160817.99982.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Morwenna --thanks so much for sharing this site and info! Albra Esther Stouten wrote: >Subject: [h-cost] Bog Dress >Message: 3 > >Does anyone know of good pictures or patterns for a Bog Dress? > >Sidhra Hello Sidhra, If by chance you do mean the Herjolfsnes finds, which as mentioned before actually aren't bog finds, but frequently are called that way. The National Museum of Denmark http://www2.natmus.dk/ has patterns of a female dress, a male tunic, a male coat and a hosen pattern available through their museumshop.shop@natmus.dk or info@natmus.dk , you can mail them and ask for the Herjolfsnes patterns. Every pattern includes a hood pattern. I made the patterns for myself as well as for my husband you can see them here, http://www.gelfling.dds.nl/wardrobe.html http://www.gelfling.dds.nl/herjolfsnes.html and http://home.hccnet.nl/r.vhallem/Dugald'sWorkshop/Wardrobe/14th_century.html They have also the pattern of the Bocksten man costume available. If you are good at drafting your own pattern than you should look here http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/bockhome.html A site with excellent information and diagrams. Good Luck, Morwenna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 20:56:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A1uASd015181 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:56:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A1tVcP012188; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:55:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A1tRNe084424; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:55:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9405.mail.yahoo.com (web9405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2A1tPNe084395 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:55:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040310015524.72314.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:55:24 PST Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:55:24 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Bog dress To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200403100112.i2A1CqNe059910@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I know it's confusing. After searching and reading thru everything I can get my hands on or find online for the last few months--the impression I have arrived at is that it would appear that even though the Herjolfsnes gowns are dated from the 14th century---the case could be made forsome of the designs having existed 2 to 3 hundred years earlier on the continent. Marc Carlsons' site has a place where several of these Kyrtles/Cotes/Tunics/Gowns, including the Herjolfsnes dresses , are listed as falling into different 'types' of dresses. What is interesting is that some of these dresses from other sites have been dated back 2 to 3 hundred years before. The Moselund Kyrtle being listed in the same 'family ' as the Herjolfsnes 42 --but the moselund kyrtle carbon dates to about 1045. Albra rreed@indirectobject.com wrote: Why is it that I always see the 10-gore referred to as 10th century Icelandic garb? Is the 10-gore the same thing as the bog dress and the Herjolfsnes dress #38? I remember going to the A&S symposium (SCA) in Seattle a few years back and there was a class on it. The handout I got said 10th century, but Marc Carlson's site says 14th century. Becky ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:08:17 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Bog dress To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <20040309160817.99982.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Morwenna --thanks so much for sharing this site and info! Albra Esther Stouten wrote: >Subject: [h-cost] Bog Dress >Message: 3 > >Does anyone know of good pictures or patterns for a Bog Dress? > >Sidhra Hello Sidhra, If by chance you do mean the Herjolfsnes finds, which as mentioned before actually aren't bog finds, but frequently are called that way. The National Museum of Denmark http://www2.natmus.dk/ has patterns of a female dress, a male tunic, a male coat and a hosen pattern available through their museumshop.shop@natmus.dk or info@natmus.dk , you can mail them and ask for the Herjolfsnes patterns. Every pattern includes a hood pattern. I made the patterns for myself as well as for my husband you can see them here, http://www.gelfling.dds.nl/wardrobe.html http://www.gelfling.dds.nl/herjolfsnes.html and http://home.hccnet.nl/r.vhallem/Dugald'sWorkshop/Wardrobe/14th_century.html They have also the pattern of the Bocksten man costume available. If you are good at drafting your own pattern than you should look here http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/bockhome.html A site with excellent information and diagrams. Good Luck, Morwenna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 21:00:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A20FSd015211 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:00:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A1xVcP012483; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:59:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A1xUNe086684; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:59:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A1xQNe086662 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:59:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2A1gpE13606 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:42:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B0skC-00033C-00; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:42:48 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: , , "H-Costume@Indra. Com" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:43:39 -0700 Message-ID: <002501c40641$1d6a6790$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Linen sale at Phoenix textiles..... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2A20FSd015211 Status: RO Thought you'd like to know.. Sg (who is chanting, "I'm not gonna look, I'm not gonna look") -----Original Message----- From: Ealasaid nic Suibhne [mailto:mjenkins@omegalegal.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 6:22 PM To: aten_textiles@yahoogroups.com Subject: [aten_textiles] 100% Linen on sale For anyone looking for 100% linen, I just got an email from Phoenix Textiles. They have their linen on sale, at $6.36 a yard. http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/deals---steals-real-deal.html or http://www.fabric.com and then click on the Steals-Real Deals icon They have several weights and the color selection is still pretty good. In a week or so, they won't have anything but brown... I've never gotten bad fabric from them. They carry good quality fabrics. Ealasaid Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Click Here Click Here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aten_textiles/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: aten_textiles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 22:17:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A3HXSd016117 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:17:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A3GmcP017000; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:16:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A3GeNe028857; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:16:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A3GYNf028810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:16:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2A3lTWm019600 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:47:29 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A8891EB800A0; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 22:16:25 -0500 Received: from development.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.112]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:16:24 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <002501c4064e$d49707e0$705183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1df.1ae54658.2d7f6d9a@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:21:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Costume in time really doesn't change...Just hang out in the corridors of any academic "Cattle Call" at the conventions and you will hear some of this same 'snarking' being given behind cupped hands or not. Newbies are always seen as newbies, and put more or less in their place. >From Kathleen, who has been lurking at APA meetings for a couple of decades. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Garb Snarks > In a message dated 3/9/2004 12:24:47 PM Central Standard Time, > Katie@katiesorchids.com writes: > Is there any kind of newbie dispensation? Should I wear a sign around my > neck that says "I'm new and don't know much yet, but the next garb will be > better"? > > > Katie, > > In an ideal world, there would be no one who was ever rude to anyone else, by > word or look, about their garb. Unfortunately every event you ever attend > will also be attended by a large number of other human beings, who will run the > gamut from friendly and accepting, to snotty and condescending. > > Even when you get your garb really well researched and established, you may > still run into people who are just ugly to you. The best way to approach any > type of event is simply to do what you can with what you have to do with, and > then go with the mindset that if people have a problem with what you're > wearing, it's *their* problem, *not* yours. For every nasty person you might > possibly see, there will be two dozen who are friendly, helpful and glad that you're > there. > > You may be fortunate enough to *never* run into anyone who's unkind, and I > sincerely hope that is your experience. But don't ever, ever let anyone who is > unkind, ruin or even dampen your fun - you're there for you, not them! > > -Tiff > "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 9 22:42:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A3gOSd016343 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:42:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A3fkcP018431; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:41:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A3fjNe041945; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:41:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A3fgNe041905 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:41:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08398 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:12:31 -0600 Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:12:31 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Bog dress In-Reply-To: <200403100112.i2A1CqNe059910@net.indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 rreed@indirectobject.com wrote: > Why is it that I always see the 10-gore referred to as 10th century > Icelandic garb? Is the 10-gore the same thing as the bog dress and > the Herjolfsnes dress #38? I remember going to the A&S symposium > (SCA) in Seattle a few years back and there was a class on it. The > handout I got said 10th century, but Marc Carlson's site says 14th > century. I don't know about the "always," as I've never heard anyone say that, but I've heard a lot of mishmash about the Greenland gowns, so it doesn't surprise me. Some data points: The so-called "10-gore" dress from Herjolfsnes has been misrepresented in some modern sources due to a quirk of the way the original diagrams are drawn; it actually has 12 gores (or panels depending on your definition). Among the couple dozen gowns from Herjolfsnes, three have the 12-gore configuration: No. 38 (probably female, slightly shaped but rather loose from about bust level down), no. 41 (probably male, slightly shaped to a longer torso than 38), and no. 45 (probably male, not shaped). The other gowns from Herjolfsnes have fewer gores/panels and different degrees of shaping that doesn't seem to have any correlation with the number of gores/panels. The Herjolfsnes gowns were found in a graveyard that was crumbling into the sea. I have no clue why some people call them bog dresses. "Bog find" implies not only a different sort of ground, but also suggests clothing worn by someone who met an accidental death (or clandestine murder!) rather than someone who was properly buried, a difference in circumstances that might well affect the choice of clothing. The Herjolfsnes clothing dates to around 1400. Although some people have suggested that it might be used to extrapolate cuts of a few centuries earlier because "those Greenland people were behind the times," I don't think this is good logic. There's evidence that the 14th-c. Greenlanders exercised some innovation in style, perhaps as an attempt to replicate (but without having the requisite techniques) what they thought was being worn on the mainland based on the extremely rare second-hand reports they received. The Greenlanders had more contact with Iceland than any other place, but not much of even that. Because of the unusual circumstances of the colony's isolation and demise, I don't think you can use the Greenland finds as a solid proof of clothing cut for anyplace but late 14th-century Greenland. There may have been similar cuts in other places/times, but if so, it would almost certainly be an independent derivation, not a direct line of influence. There are other garments that are closer in time and locale to 10th c. Iceland if you want to study that. You don't have to digress into Herjolfsnes to do it. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 00:20:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A5KYSd016776 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:20:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A5JlcP023577; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:19:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A5JfNe094163; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:19:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f114.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.114]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A5JaNe094088 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:19:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:02:09 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.84 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:02:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.84] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:02:09 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2004 05:02:09.0894 (UTC) FILETIME=[D7B50860:01C4065C] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Bog dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: >Why is it that I always see the 10-gore referred to as 10th century >Icelandic garb? Is the 10-gore the same thing as the bog dress and the >Herjolfsnes dress #38? I remember going to the A&S symposium (SCA) in >Seattle a few years back and there was a class on it. The handout I got >said 10th century, but Marc Carlson's site says 14th century. Oh, you can't believe anything you see on that sight - he just makes stuff up -- oh wait, that's MY site... I don't know who's referring to it as 10th century Icelandic -- Greenland was -colonized- in the 10th century, and the settlement at Herolfsnese dates back to that period and that may be what's confusing people. (In fact, Herjolfsnes was the destination of Bjarni Herjolfsson when he first sighted North America according to the Graenlendinga Saga). And the settlement was one of the last known to be inhabited before documented contact was lost in the early 1400s. I don't know who taught the class you mention, but obviously there are some differences of opinion with these outfits. There's a similar problem with some of the dates I've seen given for a shoe last found in the Western Settlement. The so called 10-gore dress generally refers to either #38 or #41. The dates of the garments are best guesses based on a number of things, including the shaped sleeves. Personally I think they look a lot like what a pattern for the Manessa Codex and Mac Bible garments probably would have looked like. I'm expecting to redo the whole set of Herjolfsnes garments when I can get a copy of the new book on them. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage – 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 01:28:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A6SCSd017047 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 01:28:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A6RXcP026013; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:27:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A6RRNe027035; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:27:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zinc.btinternet.com (zinc.btinternet.com [194.73.73.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A6RMNe026999 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:27:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stevie.gamble@btinternet.com) Received: from [81.129.116.221] (helo=dan) by deet.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1B0jgK-0001UV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:02:12 +0000 Message-ID: <01c001c405f0$28959c80$dd748151@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:04:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1970s hairdos and future fashion X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I spent the weekend at a SF convention which had an exhibition of costumes from a late 70's early 80's SF television show called 'Blake's Seven', as well as most of the actors. It was fascinating to note that the designers had obviously made conscientious efforts to create some sort of 'future fashion', heavily on the sexy side, but the hair styles, men and womens, were resolutely and unmistakeably 70's. The only exception was the character Servalan, played by Jacqueline Pierce, who had then, and has today, an extremely short haircut which set a fashion then, and still looks amazingly good. Actually, all the actors seem to still have the same hairstyles today, give or take a little thinning on the top... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 02:24:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A7OOSd003089 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:24:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A7NkcP027678; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:23:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2A7NgNe052429; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:23:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80401.mail.yahoo.com (web80401.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2A7NfNe052383 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:23:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jenniferfleury@sbcglobal.net) Message-ID: <20040310071655.84937.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.114.228.90] by web80401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:16:55 PST Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:16:55 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Fleury To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200403100156.i2A1tvNf084698@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] snarks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Katie, I can only second the opinions voiced by others, but I just know I would be counted amongst the "stitch counters" and "history nazis" by many and yet not live up to my potential by my betters. You are making an effort. And anybody who really cares about historical costume can see that from the get go. Nobody-not even the best amongst us-is perfect. All most enthusiasts are looking for is someone who WANTS to do it right. Room for improvement is a completely different issue from not really trying! Anyone who snarks you at an event is probably a) lacking themselves in the costume area or b) just plain confrontational or c) uneducated. As much as I have looked upon certain attempts with disgust, I have twice as often looked on lesser attempts as a fantastic beginning. And I have NEVER EVER said to someone they could do better. (hell, I could too!) There are so many people who don't even try just because they think they have to have every single element perfect or else what's the point, who won't consider doing it in stages. I long to see people who have a few things right, it means they are likely working on the rest! Don't be afraid of people who might snark you. It's probable you won't actually hear anything directly, most of these people are only comfortable with their self-righteousness within their circle of hangers-on. If you do hear from someone, understand that 99% (if not more) are text-book bullies. Simply trying to make themselves look better. And if you refuse to crumple up into the fetal postion and weep, but have the attitude of learning more, they lose. You win! Go for it, with c! onfidence! Jennifer Fleury ~~One half of the brain unit known as--www.jenla.blogspot.com--the OTHER hobby!~~ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 06:40:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2ABebSd015347 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:40:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ABcWcP006264; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:38:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ABcPNe068115; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:38:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ABcHNe068027 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:38:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f34.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.52]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E246C262831 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:38:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004a01c40694$316c8ae0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:38:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] button holes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2ABebSd015347 Status: RO Hi the list. I have just assembled my waistcoat. But i still have to make the buttonholes, 11 in all. As i have a lot of other things to do, pack my things, iron shirt and so on, could you please answer this silly question. I baught a train ticket for 1.st class, do you think i could use the time in the train to sew the buttonholes? Nearly 6 hours of drive to Stockholm? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 08:23:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2ADNUSd016673 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:23:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ADMocP009759; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:22:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ADMiNe016784; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:22:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2ADMfNe016760 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:22:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 28290 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2004 13:21:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21) (66.205.128.60) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net with SMTP; 10 Mar 2004 13:21:55 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040310051745.01075330@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:22:26 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] button holes In-Reply-To: <004a01c40694$316c8ae0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK2 0.31-18 ip=66.205.128.60 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:38 PM 3/10/2004 +0100, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hi the list. >I have just assembled my waistcoat. But i still have to make the >buttonholes, 11 in all. >As i have a lot of other things to do, pack my things, iron shirt and so >on, could you please answer this silly question. >I baught a train ticket for 1.st class, do you think i could use the time >in the train to sew the buttonholes? Nearly 6 hours of drive to Stockholm? > >Bjarne I have often done my hand-sewing while riding the train to work (and for me it is only 20 minutes or so). I'm certain you can finish the buttonholes during the 6-hour train ride. Don't forget to post pictures of you in the completed outfit. And have a good time in Stockholm. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 09:05:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AE5oSd016924 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:05:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AE4qcP011738; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:04:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AE4pNe038649; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:04:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AE4kNe038613 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:04:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a220.in-tch.com [66.62.107.20]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i2ADfvT24444 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:41:57 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <404F2143.2070005@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:08:03 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] button holes References: <004a01c40694$316c8ae0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <004a01c40694$316c8ae0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd think so. That's only 2 buttonholes/hour. I can't speak for trains in Denmark and points continental, but the ones I was on in Britain were definitely smooth enough for me to do my blackwork, which is pretty exacting. Just make sure you don't pack your buttonhole tools somewhere that's not handy! (been there, done that....) --sue Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi the list. I have just assembled my waistcoat. But i still have to > make the buttonholes, 11 in all. As i have a lot of other things to > do, pack my things, iron shirt and so on, could you please answer > this silly question. I baught a train ticket for 1.st class, do you > think i could use the time in the train to sew the buttonholes? > Nearly 6 hours of drive to Stockholm? > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 09:10:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AEA0Sd016933 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:10:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AE5QcP011771; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:05:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AE5NNe038946; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:05:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AE5GNf038895 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:05:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2AE4xPV015376 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:04:59 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:04:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <404F2099.6000809@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:05:13 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] button holes References: <4.2.2.20040310051745.01075330@pop.surewest.net> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20040310051745.01075330@pop.surewest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The only concerns might be if it is a crowded train. Do you have a guranteed seat to sit in? (I recall at least one time I had a ticket, but they didn't actually guarantee the *seat.*) If so, you should be fine. If I recall, all the trains I took in Europe were much more steady (non-bumpy) than the usual ones in the USA, so that should't be a problem. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent From LoTR, the movie EE: Legolas: Lembas! One bite will fill a man's stomach! Pippin, to Merry: How many did *you* eat? Merry, whimpering: ... four... (belch) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 10:18:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AFI2Sd017427 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:18:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AFHBcP016352; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:17:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AFH1Ne082071; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:17:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AFGiNe081846 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:16:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2004031015085201200k7aihe>; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:08:52 +0000 Message-ID: <404F2F82.7070003@fenris.net> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:08:50 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Machine needle question References: <404CA8E2.6070704@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <404CA8E2.6070704@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Aside from skipped stitches or pulled fabric threads while stitching, > is there a generally-accepted way to tell if you need to change the > needle on your sewing machine? > sound: goes 'thwock thwock' I am trying to follow the standard of new project = new needle, so I actually notice the sound change now when the needle gets dull. Cotton duck is hard on needles, I sometimes have to change the needle before the end of the project. liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 11:54:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AGsPSd017826 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:54:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AGracP025220; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:53:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AGrXNe054414; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:53:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AGrRNe054315 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:53:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A90A42625 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:07:32 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <404F49C9.7020007@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:00:57 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1970s hairdos and future fashion References: <01c001c405f0$28959c80$dd748151@dan> In-Reply-To: <01c001c405f0$28959c80$dd748151@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Stevie Gamble wrote: > the hair styles, men and womens, were resolutely and unmistakeably > 70's. I know what you mean. I have a book with photos from a university clothing collection that was published in the late 60's. It is full of lovely gowns from the 1800's all worn by women with beehive hairdos and 60's makeup and eyeglasses. Some of the pictures are a shock to look at. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 11:55:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AGtYSd017834 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:55:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AGslcP025308; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:54:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AGslNe055373; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:54:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14004.mail.yahoo.com (web14004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2AGsfNe055312 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:54:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040310165439.36331.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:54:39 GMT Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:54:39 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: Medieval_Spain@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Reproduction exhibit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just had to share this. http://www.el-nuevodia.com/Revista_Escape/Agosto/esc030817d.html ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! 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Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 12:27:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AHQxSd017963 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:27:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AHPrcP028722; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:25:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AHPpNe080036; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:25:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from morgoth.tuug.fi (morgoth.tuug.fi [130.232.72.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AHPhNe079930 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:25:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lynoure@tuug.fi) Received: by morgoth.tuug.fi (Postfix, from userid 15211) id 3A42967400; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:25:40 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:25:40 +0200 (EET) From: Ella Lynoure Rajamaki To: Historical Costume Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A real victorian corset on Ebay? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, I noticed (and wanted to buy) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2895756136&category=4156#ebayphotohosting >From the photos it looks like it's a real antique corset and the "buy now" price for it was rather small. However, the seller only ships to USA and I'm in Europe, so I though to share my finding here in hopes that if somebody here buys it, they might send me a pile of pictures of it in return. -- Lynoure Rajamaki lynoure@tuug.fi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 12:33:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AHX5Sd017977 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:33:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AHWYcP029513; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:32:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AHWVNe085474; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:32:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AHWQNe085372 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:32:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 802104 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:32:19 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:32:19 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] A real victorian corset on Ebay? From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It certainly looks real but from the blurb, it seems to be a reproduction corset for use under reproduction clothing. I don't think the Victorians used a cup size, which was mentioned in the description. LynnD On 3/10/04 9:25 AM, "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" wrote: > > Hello, > > I noticed (and wanted to buy) > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2895756136&category=4156#eb > ayphotohosting > >> From the photos it looks like it's a real antique corset and the "buy now" > price for it was rather small. However, the seller only ships to USA and > I'm in Europe, so I though to share my finding here in hopes that if > somebody here buys it, they might send me a pile of pictures of it in > return. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 12:50:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AHoKSd018051 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:50:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AHnncP001321; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:49:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AHniNe099065; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:49:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav11.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AHnfNe098966 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:49:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:49:36 -0800 Received: from 24.58.109.191 by bay1-dav11.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:49:35 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.109.191] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] A real victorian corset on Ebay? Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:49:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2004 17:49:36.0046 (UTC) FILETIME=[0D5A3CE0:01C406C8] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Please note on the auction it says: This piece was professionally made with metal boning and a metal front busk This was a demonstration or display model, and so it shows some slight wear And the title: Professionally made Victorian Corset I would guess this is NOT a real Victorian corset but a repop. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 12:25 PM Subject: [h-cost] A real victorian corset on Ebay? > > Hello, > > I noticed (and wanted to buy) > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2895756136&category=4156#ebayphotohosting > > >From the photos it looks like it's a real antique corset and the "buy now" > price for it was rather small. However, the seller only ships to USA and > I'm in Europe, so I though to share my finding here in hopes that if > somebody here buys it, they might send me a pile of pictures of it in > return. > > -- > Lynoure Rajamaki > lynoure@tuug.fi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 13:03:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AI3PSd018117 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:03:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AI2TcP002442; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:02:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AI2ONe009223; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:02:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AI2JNe009101 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:02:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0167.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.80.168]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DDB919FC91 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:02:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <404F5827.9030909@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:02:15 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Reproduction exhibit References: <20040310165439.36331.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yummie! I wish I could see them! Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: > I just had to share this. >http://www.el-nuevodia.com/Revista_Escape/Agosto/esc030817d.html > > >===== >Señora Catalina >Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > >___________________________________________________________ >Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" >your friends today! Download Messenger Now >http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 13:13:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AIDTSd018160 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:13:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AICncP003358; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:12:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AIChNe017435; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:12:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AICcNf017350 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:12:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2AICKPV017010 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:12:20 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:12:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <404F5A93.1030409@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:12:35 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Reproduction exhibit References: <20040310165439.36331.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> <404F5827.9030909@kabelfoon.nl> In-Reply-To: <404F5827.9030909@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Yummie! > I wish I could see them! > > Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: > >> I just had to share this. >> http://www.el-nuevodia.com/Revista_Escape/Agosto/esc030817d.html I just wish they had enlargements on the website. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent From LoTR, the movie EE: Legolas: Lembas! One bite will fill a man's stomach! Pippin, to Merry: How many did *you* eat? Merry, whimpering: ... four... (belch) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 13:18:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AIIrSd018190 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:18:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AII0cP003871; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:18:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AIHmNe021685; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:17:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mwinf1002.wanadoo.fr (ipoutme5.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AIHkNe021586 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:17:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from liara@wanadoo.fr) Received: from mathilde (AMontsouris-103-1-4-137.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.249.191.137]) by mwinf1002.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id B1C6D1C0038B for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:54:43 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <016001c406c8$f491acb0$89bff951@mathilde> From: "Liara" To: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:56:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Late French medieval outfit... seeking advice X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2AIIrSd018190 Status: RO Hello everyone, Being kind of a newbie in historical reenactement, and here only since a few weeks, I've yet learned a lot reading from all of you. That's why I now come to you, in these times of dire need... ;) For a Medieval Faire I shall be attending in July, I'm recreating a late medieval/early rennaissance costume, inspired by the historic figure of Anne de Bretagne, duchess of Bretagne and twice queen of France (1477-1524). Alas I'm venturing far from my fav period... Luckily there's a few historical pictures of Anne, so it shall not be too difficult to recreate something with at least "the look of it". Furthermore, I'm not looking for 100% accuracy, that I probably won't be able to reproduce anyway, and that I can't probably afford ;) So here's my questions : the dress in itself should not be too much of a problem, but I'm not familiar with the headwear, which is probably the most recognizable item of the costume. Here's a few contemporary pictures of Anne : http://www.asn-ibk.ac.at/bildung/faecher/geschichte/maike/treffpunkt/buch2-259.jpg http://www.asn-ibk.ac.at/bildung/faecher/geschichte/maike/bilderkatalog/valois_f/4rrrrr.htm http://www.publius-historicus.com/Images/anne_br2.jpg Is it a regular French Hood? How can I recreate such a thing? Is the crown on the two last pictures just here as a symbol, or is it any trace of it being actually worn with this kind of hood ? There's also an illustration of Anne by Fresno on costumes.org... To what extent is the picture historically accurate? The fur on the sleeves for example is of particuliar interest, because hermine is both the symbol of her duchy and the mark of her regal status... http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/greatwomen/10340_06.jpg I would be grateful if any of you could point me in the right directions, to the right books or websites, or provide me with any advice that would seem appropriate. Thank you! Liara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 13:24:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AIOmSd018205 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:24:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AINwcP004496; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:23:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AINsNe026677; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:23:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AINmNe026536 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:23:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0167.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.80.168]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B8A819FBF0 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:23:42 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <404F5D32.4010004@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:23:46 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Reproduction exhibit References: <20040310165439.36331.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> <404F5827.9030909@kabelfoon.nl> <404F5A93.1030409@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Or a book with patterns and pictures of how they made them. I can't find much on that page. I translated the text from Spanish to english with http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Deredere Galbraith wrote: > >> Yummie! >> I wish I could see them! >> >> Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: >> >>> I just had to share this. >>> http://www.el-nuevodia.com/Revista_Escape/Agosto/esc030817d.html >> > > I just wish they had enlargements on the website. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 13:35:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AIZ0Sd018254 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:35:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AIX3cP005402; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:33:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AIWxNe033661; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:32:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav66.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AIWwNe033579 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:32:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:15:29 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav66.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:15:29 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040310165439.36331.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Reproduction exhibit Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:15:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2004 18:15:29.0940 (UTC) FILETIME=[AB8BA540:01C406CB] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay, I've sent the same message on margospatterns list, so some of you might get it twice, I'm sorry. I've seen this exhibit here in Montreal, and I was very disappointed with most of the work. Uneven stitches, weird construction. They looked fine from 10 ft away, but if you got closer than that, it started looking sloppy. It took them something like 6 years to do the costumes, I was expecting much, much better from a professional costume shop. Also, there were water stains on the dresses, they were badly wrinkled and had buttons missing. They were placed wrong on some of the mannequins. Part of the exhibition displayed theatre costumes - obviously not meant to be totally accurate - except that wasn't written anywhere, and there was a video of a wedding playing, but it looked like it was made in the late 70's or early 80's. Some of the fabric they reproduced is nice though, and you can touch samples of it. It's a shame they weren't closer to the originals. IIRC the Vicenzo Gonzaga outfit is the only really nice one, with all the pearls and embroidery. Well, there were a couple of not-repro-modern-in-Liz-style dresses too, that were absolutely amazing. But it wasn't worth the 6$ I paid to get in. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catalina Saravia Quicedo" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:54 AM Subject: [h-cost] Reproduction exhibit > I just had to share this. > http://www.el-nuevodia.com/Revista_Escape/Agosto/esc030817d.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 14:45:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AJjTSd018524 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:45:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AJiKcP011452; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:44:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AJiDNe088721; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:44:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14002.mail.yahoo.com (web14002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2AJhiNe088402 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:43:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040310194316.29606.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:43:16 GMT Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:43:16 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late French medieval outfit... seeking advice To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <016001c406c8$f491acb0$89bff951@mathilde> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The clothing pictured on Anne de Brtagne, or Anne of Britanny are what is considered transition style. This is slightly before the style of French hood well known to be worn by Ann Boleyn. http://www.ac-grenoble.fr/argouges/PEDAGOGI/Costume/Transition.htm This appears to be a soft hood of velvet or black damask similar in shape to the later rigid hood. I am no expert in this area. --- Liara wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > Being kind of a newbie in historical reenactement, > and here only since a few weeks, I've yet learned a > lot reading from all of you. That's why I now come > to you, in these times of dire need... ;) > For a Medieval Faire I shall be attending in July, > I'm recreating a late medieval/early rennaissance > costume, inspired by the historic figure of Anne de > Bretagne, duchess of Bretagne and twice queen of > France (1477-1524). Alas I'm venturing far from my > fav period... > > Luckily there's a few historical pictures of Anne, > so it shall not be too difficult to recreate > something with at least "the look of it". > Furthermore, I'm not looking for 100% accuracy, that > I probably won't be able to reproduce anyway, and > that I can't probably afford ;) > > So here's my questions : the dress in itself should > not be too much of a problem, but I'm not familiar > with the headwear, which is probably the most > recognizable item of the costume. Here's a few > contemporary pictures of Anne : > > http://www.asn-ibk.ac.at/bildung/faecher/geschichte/maike/treffpunkt/buch2-259.jpg > > http://www.asn-ibk.ac.at/bildung/faecher/geschichte/maike/bilderkatalog/valois_f/4rrrrr.htm > > http://www.publius-historicus.com/Images/anne_br2.jpg > > Is it a regular French Hood? How can I recreate such > a thing? Is the crown on the two last pictures just > here as a symbol, or is it any trace of it being > actually worn with this kind of hood ? > > There's also an illustration of Anne by Fresno on > costumes.org... To what extent is the picture > historically accurate? The fur on the sleeves for > example is of particuliar interest, because hermine > is both the symbol of her duchy and the mark of her > regal status... > > http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/greatwomen/10340_06.jpg > > I would be grateful if any of you could point me in > the right directions, to the right books or > websites, or provide me with any advice that would > seem appropriate. Thank you! > > Liara > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 14:47:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AJl0Sd018528 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:47:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AJjscP011690; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:45:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AJjqNe090039; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:45:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14010.mail.yahoo.com (web14010.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2AJjlNe090006 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:45:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040310194547.6403.qmail@web14010.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14010.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:45:47 GMT Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:45:47 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late French medieval outfit... seeking advice To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <016001c406c8$f491acb0$89bff951@mathilde> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.maidenfaire.com/vitem-headdresses.htm These people sell a similar hood. --- Liara wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > Being kind of a newbie in historical reenactement, > and here only since a few weeks, I've yet learned a > lot reading from all of you. That's why I now come > to you, in these times of dire need... ;) > For a Medieval Faire I shall be attending in July, > I'm recreating a late medieval/early rennaissance > costume, inspired by the historic figure of Anne de > Bretagne, duchess of Bretagne and twice queen of > France (1477-1524). Alas I'm venturing far from my > fav period... > > Luckily there's a few historical pictures of Anne, > so it shall not be too difficult to recreate > something with at least "the look of it". > Furthermore, I'm not looking for 100% accuracy, that > I probably won't be able to reproduce anyway, and > that I can't probably afford ;) > > So here's my questions : the dress in itself should > not be too much of a problem, but I'm not familiar > with the headwear, which is probably the most > recognizable item of the costume. Here's a few > contemporary pictures of Anne : > > http://www.asn-ibk.ac.at/bildung/faecher/geschichte/maike/treffpunkt/buch2-259.jpg > > http://www.asn-ibk.ac.at/bildung/faecher/geschichte/maike/bilderkatalog/valois_f/4rrrrr.htm > > http://www.publius-historicus.com/Images/anne_br2.jpg > > Is it a regular French Hood? How can I recreate such > a thing? Is the crown on the two last pictures just > here as a symbol, or is it any trace of it being > actually worn with this kind of hood ? > > There's also an illustration of Anne by Fresno on > costumes.org... To what extent is the picture > historically accurate? The fur on the sleeves for > example is of particuliar interest, because hermine > is both the symbol of her duchy and the mark of her > regal status... > > http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/greatwomen/10340_06.jpg > > I would be grateful if any of you could point me in > the right directions, to the right books or > websites, or provide me with any advice that would > seem appropriate. Thank you! > > Liara > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 15:01:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AK1YSd018574 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:01:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AK0dcP012916; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:00:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AK0bNe001202; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:00:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AK0UNf001138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:00:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2AK0BPV018211 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:00:12 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:00:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <404F73DA.6080608@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:00:26 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late French medieval outfit... seeking advice References: <016001c406c8$f491acb0$89bff951@mathilde> In-Reply-To: <016001c406c8$f491acb0$89bff951@mathilde> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Liara wrote: > crown on the two last pictures just here as a symbol, or is it any > trace of it being actually worn with this kind of hood ? I'd vote for it being symbolic only, because engineering such a thing would require it fitting over the structure of the hood in weird ways from a 3-d perspective. > There's also an illustration of Anne by Fresno on costumes.org... To > what extent is the picture historically accurate? > > http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/greatwomen/10340_06.jpg Looks like an elaboration based on the first link you gave us -- the detailing on the hood lappets is very similar. I wouldn't trust it. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Oh, and while we're at it, God also really hates shrimp. Maybe you didn't know. Shrimp are evil, as are all shrimp eaters. Clams, too. Hey, it's in the Bible. You can look it up. Why the Right is attacking homosexuals and not, say, Red Lobster, remains a mystery. -- Mark Morford _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 15:28:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AKSjSd018707 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:28:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AKRucP015208; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:27:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AKRsNe021993; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:27:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lycos.com (www5.mail.lycos.com [209.202.220.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2AKRkNe021856 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:27:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katie_lewis@mailcity.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:27:29 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:27:29 -0500 From: "Katie Lewis" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bog Dress X-Sender-Ip: 129.219.5.156 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --------- Original Message --------- DATE: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:14:54 From: annora To: Historical Costume Cc: >> Does anyone know of good pictures or patterns for a Bog Dress? > > > > If you're SCA, Tournaments Illuminated had an article by Kass >McGann a few years back on her study and reconstruction of the Shinrone >gown. The same lady has also developed a pattern based on the Shinrone gown. It is carried by Canyon Keep Enterprieses (www.canyonkeep.biz), home to all kinds of spiffy stuff. I couldn't find the pattern listed on the site, but if you email the Mairi I'm sure she will get back to you. -Katie a satisfied custoner of Canyon Keep ____________________________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 15:55:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AKt2Sd018877 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:55:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AKs9cP017650; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:54:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AKs3Ne042460; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:54:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AKrxNe042343 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:54:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (v92.16) with ESMTP id RELAYIN7-8404f7f2ada; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:48:42 -0500 Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.125.2bce0a30 (25914) for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:43:24 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <125.2bce0a30.2d80d7eb@aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:43:23 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1970s hairdos and future fashion To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hair [and make up] is one of the ways you can almost always date the time of production of a film. Even in films that get the hair "right," there will be some extras.... or some little thing about otherwise correct hair that often gives it away. This is, of course, only natural and indeed expected. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 16:43:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2ALh7Sd019090 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:43:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ALgJcP022091; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:42:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ALg9Ne080762; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:42:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from morgoth.tuug.fi (morgoth.tuug.fi [130.232.72.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ALg4Ne080685 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:42:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lynoure@tuug.fi) Received: by morgoth.tuug.fi (Postfix, from userid 15211) id 67C5867429; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:42:03 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:42:03 +0200 (EET) From: Ella Lynoure Rajamaki To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A real victorian corset on Ebay? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Bice d'Este wrote: > Please note on the auction it says: > This piece was professionally made with metal boning and a metal front busk > This was a demonstration or display model, and so it shows some slight wear And slight rust, based on the photo. Also, in reproduction those busk loops tend to be silvery, never yet seem those dark ones in modern hardware. I would call victorian corset maker as professional as many modern sewer, so I'm guessing the seller just doesn't realize something so old could be in such a good shape. But, yes, your guess is as good as mine. -- Lynoure Rajamaki lynoure@tuug.fi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 16:51:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2ALpiSd019135 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:51:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ALorcP022888; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:50:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ALomNe087487; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:50:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from morgoth.tuug.fi (morgoth.tuug.fi [130.232.72.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ALojNe087445 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:50:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lynoure@tuug.fi) Received: by morgoth.tuug.fi (Postfix, from userid 15211) id A97A66742A; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:50:41 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:50:41 +0200 (EET) From: Ella Lynoure Rajamaki To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A real victorian corset on Ebay? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Lynn Downward wrote: > It certainly looks real but from the blurb, it seems to be a reproduction > corset for use under reproduction clothing. I don't think the Victorians > used a cup size, which was mentioned in the description. You are right, they didn't. I was (am?) assuming it was the current owners idea of what size the corset might match. I e-mailed the seller with some questions: - Do they know who the maker is? - Are there any labels, markings or stamps on the corset? - Is there a larger photo? - Is the size official or a questimate by the owner? -- Lynoure Rajamaki lynoure@tuug.fi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 17:18:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AMIASd019315 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:18:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AMHMcP025211; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:17:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AMHJNe007992; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:17:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AMHCNe007895 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:17:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6760E1D0E2 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:17:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p322.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.68]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3CFD4C4E3 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:17:09 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Reproduction exhibit Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:17:30 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20040310165439.36331.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Isabella d'Este reproduction looks as if the interlacing is connected to the background fabric. I always thought by looking at the sleeves of the portrait that the black velvet was separate (cutwork maybe) from the cream fabric background. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Catalina Saravia Quicedo Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:55 AM To: Medieval_Spain@yahoogroups.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Reproduction exhibit I just had to share this. http://www.el-nuevodia.com/Revista_Escape/Agosto/esc030817d.html ===== Señora Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 17:52:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AMqqSd019456 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:52:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AMq2cP027919; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:52:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AMpvNe034432; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:51:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav62.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.197]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AMpqNe034313 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:51:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:34:28 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav62.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:34:28 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Reproduction exhibit Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:35:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2004 22:34:28.0549 (UTC) FILETIME=[D9473750:01C406EF] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I seem to remember that it IS separate cutwork. What bothered me was the fit of the dress, I really don't think it would have been worn UNDER the breasts, it was probably not put properly on the mannequin. Also, that dress had a line at the bottom as if it had been pinned shorter to be worn, and then had never been cleaned before being put on display. I was also intrigued by the headwear. > The Isabella d'Este reproduction looks as if the interlacing is connected to > the background fabric. I always thought by looking at the sleeves of the > portrait that the black velvet was separate (cutwork maybe) from the cream > fabric background. > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Catalina Saravia Quicedo > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:55 AM > To: Medieval_Spain@yahoogroups.com > Cc: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Reproduction exhibit > > > I just had to share this. > http://www.el-nuevodia.com/Revista_Escape/Agosto/esc030817d.html > > > ===== > Señora Catalina > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 18:10:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2ANAeSd019530 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:10:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AN9wcP029480; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:09:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AN9uNe047614; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:09:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from morgoth.tuug.fi (morgoth.tuug.fi [130.232.72.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2AN9qNe047575 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:09:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lynoure@tuug.fi) Received: by morgoth.tuug.fi (Postfix, from userid 15211) id 777D08F0; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 01:09:51 +0200 (EET) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 01:09:51 +0200 (EET) From: Ella Lynoure Rajamaki To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A real victorian corset on Ebay? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Bice d'Este wrote: > I would guess this is NOT a real Victorian corset but a repop. You guessed right. The seller answered my question and told me It's a reproduction. I'm sorry about my mistake. It looked so antique in the photos. Oh well. :) -- Lynoure Rajamaki lynoure@tuug.fi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 18:39:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2ANdbSd019660 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:39:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ANcocP002199; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:38:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ANclNe069637; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:38:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav14.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ANcfNe069512 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:38:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:21:15 -0800 Received: from 24.58.109.191 by bay1-dav14.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:21:14 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.109.191] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] A real victorian corset on Ebay? Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:21:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2004 23:21:15.0144 (UTC) FILETIME=[6223A080:01C406F6] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a "real" one and it's in vile shape. One of the apartments I had was in an old house circa 1860 and behind one removable wall in my flat was the servant's bedroom and the back stairs. Everything had been covered up and closed off and there was a crawl space under the eaves. Among some old tin cans (that I later sold and made a nice chunk of change) was a civil war era crutch and a corset (the cane was also sold) the corset was tiny and in fact I hadn't ever seen one so small. It's very simple and crumbling and has the faintest traces of lace along the top. Steel bones too. Bice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] A real victorian corset on Ebay? > On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Bice d'Este wrote: > > > I would guess this is NOT a real Victorian corset but a repop. > > You guessed right. The seller answered my question and told me It's a > reproduction. > > I'm sorry about my mistake. It looked so antique in the photos. > Oh well. :) > > -- > Lynoure Rajamaki > lynoure@tuug.fi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 21:00:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2B207Sd020226 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:00:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B1x5cP011727; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:59:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B1wuNe055867; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:58:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B1wnNf055809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:58:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B214E6016263 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:01:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i2B2145j016261 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:01:04 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bog Dress Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:01:04 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403102101.04569.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 10 March 2004 03:27 pm, Katie Lewis wrote: > --------- Original Message --------- > > DATE: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:14:54 > From: annora > To: Historical Costume > > Cc: > >> Does anyone know of good pictures or patterns for a Bog Dress? > > > > If you're SCA, Tournaments Illuminated had an article by Kass > >McGann a few years back on her study and reconstruction of the Shinrone > >gown. > > The same lady has also developed a pattern based on the Shinrone gown. It > is carried by Canyon Keep Enterprieses (www.canyonkeep.biz), home to all > kinds of spiffy stuff. I couldn't find the pattern listed on the site, but > if you email the Mairi I'm sure she will get back to you. I couldn't find any patterns on sale at Canyon Keep, though I admit I didn't look very long. :-) But Grannd Garb definitely carries Kass's patterns, including the Shinrone Gown pattern: http://www.grannd.com/rhpatterns.shtml -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 21:40:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2B2e9Sd020467 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:40:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B2dTcP014263; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:39:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B2dRNe078006; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:39:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts4-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts4-srv.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B2dLNg077887 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:39:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.70.4.208]) by simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040310195558.CCFY15704.simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:55:58 -0500 Message-ID: <005101c406da$2048dde0$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <0EA3A02D-6FAF-11D8-945E-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost]History with at twist (was Garb Snarks) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:58:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That would be great! :-) It was an image that has stuck with me for years, whenever I talk about fabric choices for costuming (as opposed to historical clothing) I always mention it as an example of how you can turn any crazy fabric into a stunning outfit, with a bit of imagination. Would you be able to scan the Blackadder doublet and 'pumpkin' pants as well? A friend of mine has always wanted that outfit, he feels there is nothing more manly than black velvet and leather. (hey, he's 6 and a half feet tall and well over 250 lbs, he'll look manly in whatever he wants.) :-) Thanks again! Sheridan From: "Sarah" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost]History with at twist (was Garb Snarks) > It was "The Costume Maker's Art". I don't think it's in print any > more, but I have a copy. Would you like me to scan the image for you? > > Sarah > http://www.modehistorique.com > > > On Saturday, March 6, 2004, at 11:07 AM, Shane & Sheridan wrote: > > > Years ago when I first got into costuming, I stumbled accross a book > > in the > > University of Saskatchewan library that had a stunning photograph of a > > lovely African lady in full Elizbethan. The catch: the fabrics used > > for her > > gown were all animal/African prints in shades of orange, black and > > brown - > > zebra, leapord, you name it! They had her sitting on a dock with a > > tall ship > > behind her. Lovely! > > > > As I recall this same book had some of the Elizabethan Blackadder > > costumes > > in it as well. Does anyone here know what this book is, I never wrote > > the > > title down as I had been looking for something else at the time... > > > > Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 10 22:08:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2B38ASd020542 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:08:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B37VcP015670; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:07:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B37RNe092520; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:07:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B37PNe092498 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:07:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06931439pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.138.0.130]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90C2B15EBF for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:07:37 -0800 (PST) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Bog dress Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:16:00 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc Carlson wrote: I'm expecting to redo the whole set of Herjolfsnes garments when I can get a copy of the new book on them. WHAT BOOK???????? -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 00:29:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2B5TYSd021030 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:29:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B5SncP023635; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:28:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B5ShNe064504; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:28:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B5SeNe064476 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:28:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05905 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:59:20 -0600 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:59:20 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Bog dress In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Megan M. wrote: > Marc Carlson wrote: > I'm expecting to redo the whole set of Herjolfsnes garments > when I can get a copy of the new book on them. "Woven into the Earth," a complete re-analysis by the curator in charge of the artifacts, Else Ostergard. The Danish version is out; the English not yet, though I hear that one of my colleagues is now reading a proof copy. Last spring I posted here some advance ordering information at a discount via David Brown, though I don't know if the discount is still in effect. You can pre-order via Amazon, though. I'd encourage that, as the original intention was to have a very small print run. If there are a lot of pre-orders, I'm guessing they'll boost the print run. That's a decision that can't be made in retrospect. --Robin eagerly hoping the publisher will remember to send the review copy they'd promised, as I want to review it for the first volume of the Medieval Clothing & Textiles journal _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 01:50:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2B6ohSd021473 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 01:50:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B6o5cP027040; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:50:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B6o2Ne003375; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:50:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B6nvNe003313 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:49:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06248 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 02:20:37 -0600 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 02:20:37 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Bog dress In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Marc Carlson wrote: > I don't know who's referring to it as 10th century Icelandic -- > Greenland was -colonized- in the 10th century, and the settlement at > Herolfsnese dates back to that period and that may be what's confusing > people. (In fact, Herjolfsnes was the destination of Bjarni > Herjolfsson when he first sighted North America according to the > Graenlendinga Saga). And the settlement was one of the last known to > be inhabited before documented contact was lost in the early 1400s. Marc has a nice history of medieval Greenland on his site, at http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/history/grontime.html It lists colonization about 985. The colony died off sometime between 1410 (last ship contact) and 1500. When I hear people talk about the people who left the Herjolfsnes garments as being "settlers" in the way people talk about, say, American West settlers in the 1800s who were staking out ground for farms and starting everything from scratch, I like to point out that at the time the Herjolfsnes garments were interred, that colony had been in place for at least 430 years, maybe somewhat longer. That's longer than the current American colonies have been established (measuring from the Pilgrims in 1620). The Herjolfsnes dwellers may have been subsistence farmers, but they weren't newcomers carving their way into a new world. And things didn't really start going to pot till that last century, when (apparently) it got colder, and the crops failed, and things just weren't like they used to be back in great-grandpa's day. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 02:06:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2B76oSd026209 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 02:06:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B768cP027562; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:06:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B766Ne010379; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:06:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from netkauai-1.dns-netkauai.com (circlesoflight.com [66.206.11.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B75xNf010341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:06:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisa@darklord.com) Received: from adsl-69-104-141-240.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net ([69.104.141.240] helo=darklord.com) by netkauai-1.dns-netkauai.com with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1B1Jeb-0001ba-0Y for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:26:27 -1000 Message-ID: <405006A4.5040006@darklord.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:26:44 -0800 From: Lisa VandenBerghe User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - netkauai-1.dns-netkauai.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - darklord.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] medieval button closures X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all- Out from lurking for a minute... I am trying to document the use and technique of button loops in the late 1300s. I have read oblique references, but nothing tangible. I am working on a silk kirtle to wear under my cotehardie and would prefer not to cut into each sleeve 24 times. Can anyone help? Thanks! Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 04:01:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2B91vSd015837 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 04:01:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B91HcP001157; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 02:01:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B91ANe062069; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 02:01:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B914Ne061982 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 02:01:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f2f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.47]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B445F47FE88 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:00:56 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001501c40747$64b9b0e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:01:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] cotton velvet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2B91vSd015837 Status: RO Hi. I dont know about the authenticy about cotton velvet. But silk velvet is fake today, so you dont have any options. Cotton velvet looks a little poor versus silk velvet, but then again you have to make choises. I am travelling today to the gustavian society. We are having a teaparty at Hufudsta Castle friday evening and then a party at Nyckelviken, small country place. I shall go in a cotton velvet suit at the Hufudsta Castle tea party and wait for the full dress to Nyckelviken. As always, lots of photos will be taken, and uploaded on my webpage next week. I shall return on sunday. My train is leaving in 2 hours time, so i have packed all my things. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 07:07:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BC78Sd017070 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:07:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BC5AcP007584; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:05:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BC50Ne043366; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:05:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (sea1-f162.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BC4vNe043307 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:04:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nancy_kiel@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 03:47:36 -0800 Received: from 162.83.113.190 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:47:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [162.83.113.190] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] X-Sender: nancy_kiel@hotmail.com From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Bog dress & American colonies (OT) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 06:47:35 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Mar 2004 11:47:36.0229 (UTC) FILETIME=[A5BEED50:01C4075E] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I must point out that the first permanent English settlement in the New World was JAMESTOWN, not Plymouth. Jamestown was founded in 1607 (I work there, so I know). The Pilgrims just had better press. Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. >From: Robin Netherton >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Bog dress >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 02:20:37 -0600 (CST) > >When I hear people talk about the people who left the Herjolfsnes garments >as being "settlers" in the way people talk about, say, American West >settlers in the 1800s who were staking out ground for farms and starting >everything from scratch, I like to point out that at the time the >Herjolfsnes garments were interred, that colony had been in place for at >least 430 years, maybe somewhat longer. That's longer than the current >American colonies have been established (measuring from the Pilgrims in >1620). The Herjolfsnes dwellers may have been subsistence farmers, but >they weren't newcomers carving their way into a new world. And things >didn't really start going to pot till that last century, when (apparently) >it got colder, and the crops failed, and things just weren't like they >used to be back in great-grandpa's day. > >--Robin _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 07:14:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BCE7Sd017089 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:14:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BCDScP007994; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:13:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BCDRNe046916; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:13:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mwinf3002.me.freeserve.com (smtp1.freeserve.com [193.252.22.158]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BCDONe046848 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:13:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lynn@close-hainsworth.fslife.co.uk) Received: from wwinf3003 (wwinf3003 [172.22.159.30]) by mwinf3002.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id DF0DC1800092 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:55:45 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <414292.1079006145883.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> From: Freyalyn Close-Hainsworth To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: [195.92.168.171] Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:55:45 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2BCE7Sd017089 Status: RO Some people may already have heard of 'Gunpowder, Treason and Plot', a new BBC2 costume drama starting this weekend, part one on the life of Mary Queen of Scots and the second on the life of her son. I'm sure this will be shown in the US at some point soon. However, I read a quote from the producer and thought it worth reproducing here for discussion: "I'm very interested in this term 'costume drama' because what it does is put costume before drama - quite literally - and you do feel they're more about the bloody costumes than the drama. Actually the period element should be secondary to the fact that you're trying to tell an interesting story. The whole point about going back in history is to find the universal theme that has relevance today. "The Gunpowder Plot is the original terrorist story involving explosives. You've got to ask yourself what parallels Catholics trying to blow up Parliament has with Islamic fundamentalists trying to blow up the Pentagon today. And then ask yourself whether that's more worthwhile than the idea of most costume drama, which is characters dressed up like Quality Street prancing around on the screen" It doesn't sound to me like he's got much respect for his subject matter. Well, should costume drama be done to tell the stories of the people it represents, or is it solely valuable to comment on today's society? Discuss.... Freyalyn (now running for cover) Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save £7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 07:25:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BCPISd017706 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:25:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BCOgcP008388; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:24:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BCOeNe052024; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:24:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BCOcNe051995 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:24:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07534 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:55:18 -0600 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:55:18 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval button closures In-Reply-To: <405006A4.5040006@darklord.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Lisa VandenBerghe wrote: > Out from lurking for a minute... I am trying to document the use and > technique of button loops in the late 1300s. I have read oblique > references, but nothing tangible. I am working on a silk kirtle to > wear under my cotehardie and would prefer not to cut into each sleeve > 24 times. Can anyone help? I've seen plenty of (modern) secondary references that seem to assume these were used, but I've never seen anything in sources from the period that would indicate as such. By contrast, buttonholes are easy to document, both on extant garments and fragments and in artwork. I've heard one person try to support the use of loops by pointing out that some manuscript artists show buttons as lying on the closure line rather than to the side of it. However, in the artwork in question, the images tend to be tiny and not terribly detailed, with the buttons only a series of dots painted along a single line, and I wouldn't put a lot of stock in their precision. However -- many sleeves show no visible means of fastening, but are clearly tightened in some way. This is also true of the lower sleeves in some 13th c. styles, and in the 13th c. we know that people were sewing their sleeves shut. I think this combination of clues would support the use of sewing or lacing, possibly hidden lacing, to close a tight sleeve in the late 14th century. The fact that the artists also tend not to depict lacing on a closed garment front (but do show it when the same garment is open) makes this even more reasonable. You could do this by actually sewing the wrist closed each time you put it on; perhaps keep a needle with a sturdy thread permanently attached to the opening. Or you could do it by positioning small rings (NOT grommets) close together along the inside edge of the opening, one side offset from the other, and "sewing" your lacing cord through them with a needle, in a spiral, each time you put it on. The cord and needle would remain permanently attached to the garment, like a point with an aiglet in other garments, and you might even have it permanently laced loose, and just draw it up tight after putting on the dress. The opening need not be large, just a few inches along the wrist where it needs "snugging up" after you put your hand through. Even on my buttoned sleeves I only need to unbutton a few inches' worth to get my hands in and out. Note also that the lacing opening would be on the inside of the wrist seam, for access. This is different from buttons, which would go on an outside seam. If I were doing this, I would make my cord by fingerlooping silk thread directly onto the needle, and affix the end of the cord to the inside of the sleeve at one end of the opening. This attaches the needle permanently and smoothly to the end of the cord. Personally, I find the look of buttons to be nice, and the buttonholes not terribly hard to do. I make them by hand (practice first!). They should be as tiny as you can manage, and close together. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 07:47:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BCl6Sd017808 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:47:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BCk4cP008963; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:46:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BCjuNe061152; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:45:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BCjsNe061127 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:45:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07665 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:16:35 -0600 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:16:35 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Bog dress & American colonies (OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Nancy Kiel wrote: > I must point out that the first permanent English settlement in the > New World was JAMESTOWN, not Plymouth. Jamestown was founded in 1607 > (I work there, so I know). The Pilgrims just had better press. Ooh, good point. I wasn't thinking. But still in existence not quite so long as the Greenland colony survived, so the overall point holds. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 08:16:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BDGmSd018035 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:16:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BDAtcP009751; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 06:10:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BDAqNe072249; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 06:10:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BDAoNe072139 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 06:10:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i2BDAaT14348.; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:10:36 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:10:36 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:10:27 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The writer of the series said on Radio 4 that he had not followed the theories of any modern historian because "they only want you to buy their books". Hasn't he heard of libraries? Shouldn't he be reading as widely as possible on the subject? Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 08:29:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BDTJSd018071 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:29:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BDQPcP010393; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 06:26:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BDQLNe079634; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 06:26:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BDQHNf079580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 06:26:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2BDPxPV024258 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:25:59 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:25:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <405068F6.9020203@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:26:14 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: > The writer of the series said on Radio 4 that he had not followed the > theories of any modern historian because "they only want you to buy > their books". And he only wants you to watch his show, and a contempt for history does sell these days. We've discussed before that most movie-makers have a different priorities than we'd like them to have; this one is only one of a host of other historical movies that didn't bother to do enough research. One currently popular director has been quoted as saying "the historians didn't agree with each other so I made my own decisions." -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent From LoTR, the movie EE: Legolas: Lembas! One bite will fill a man's stomach! Pippin, to Merry: How many did *you* eat? Merry, whimpering: ... four... (belch) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 09:07:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BE70Sd018230 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:07:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BE4AcP011934; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:04:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BE47Ne098293; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:04:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BE45Ne098275 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:04:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu (vcs077.vet.cornell.edu [128.253.111.77]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2BE44iI009454 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:04:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040311090048.01a96fa8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:04:06 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval button closures In-Reply-To: <405006A4.5040006@darklord.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Lisa... just reading Crowfoot last night... and working on my own 14th century piece...Sorry to say... I don't know of, and have not seen any reference to using loops as closures for buttons. Indeed the retrieved pieces that date to the late 1300s are all button and button hole. If you find any evidence to the contrary please let me know. Now - back to my buttonholes. ; > Bridgette >Hi all- >Out from lurking for a minute... I am trying to document the use and >technique of button loops in the late 1300s. I have read oblique >references, but nothing tangible. I am working on a silk kirtle to wear >under my cotehardie and would prefer not to cut into each sleeve 24 times. >Can anyone help? >Thanks! >Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 09:30:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BEU8Sd018357 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:30:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BENIcP012673; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:23:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BENFNe008255; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:23:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out007.verizon.net (out007pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BENDNe008240 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:23:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([162.83.114.99]) by out007.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040311142313.RZUW28276.out007.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:23:13 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:23:11 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <414292.1079006145883.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out007.verizon.net from [162.83.114.99] at Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:23:12 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well I guess I can understand both views. I interpret in a museum. One of the "bibles" for interpretation in historic or natural history museums is Freeman Tilden's book "Interpreting Our Heritage". This book lines out of few rules of interpretation, the first of which is, "Any interpretation that does not somehow relate what is being displayed or described to something within the personality or experience of the visitor will be sterile." This is the point the director is making. However, what is often forgot is the message has to be delivered. With any drama the production must suspend the disbelief of the viewer. Where does costume, props, and set design fall in this? These are the anchors that set the story. The further off they are, the less likely your audience makes the trip back and the less likely they are to even listen to the story. However lets be honest with ourselves. That point where a costume ruins a movie differs with different people. With most of the normal populace it is pretty low. Look at the success of Braveheart for instance. With others it is high (I do not like Braveheart and never bothered to watch the Patriot because of historical inaccuracies) The telling of the story also matters. The better the story is told the more mistakes one might accept. Rob Roy is one of my favorite movies, the clothing (that is the highland dress) is often very badly done but the story makes up for it (as do some of Tim Roth's clothing). On the other hand there are those movies where the look is better than the story (or the telling of it). I think a lot of Turner's movies are this way (OK most of them). Merchant Ivory can be guilty of this, they most certainly were with Jefferson in Paris, yuck!! I think I agree with the director the more I think about it, but not for the same reasons probably. I also don't agree that most "costume Drama" is about "prancing around". I think I would prefer Historic Drama (which is what I use anyway). No the film is not about the costumes, and as much as I am interested in historic costumes, for me, as a social historian, it is the people who matter. I am interested in the people and the costumes help reach those people. History on the other hand SHOULD come before the drama (for most modern movie makers it does not). To paraphrase the director in question to my point, "The whole point about going back in history is to go back in history!" Throw away all your accuracy and you haven't gone anywhere! Now the problem with this discussion is that it comes up at all. I can believe that sometimes history gets in the way of a good story (look at Hidalgo) but rarely does costume get in the way. (well maybe physically! ;) You may need to find a balance between history and story, but not costume and story. That is at least not for story reasons. I am fully aware of the other reasons that might argue against costume accuracy, budget, modern perceptions, actor obstinence, etc. Ron > "I'm very interested in this term 'costume drama' because what it > does is put costume before drama - quite literally - and you do > feel they're more about the bloody costumes than the drama. > Actually the period element should be secondary to the fact that > you're trying to tell an interesting story. The whole point > about going back in history is to find the universal theme that > has relevance today. > "The Gunpowder Plot is the original terrorist story involving > explosives. You've got to ask yourself what parallels Catholics > trying to blow up Parliament has with Islamic fundamentalists > trying to blow up the Pentagon today. And then ask yourself > whether that's more worthwhile than the idea of most costume > drama, which is characters dressed up like Quality Street > prancing around on the screen" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 09:33:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BEXPSd018373 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:33:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BEVpcP013134; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:31:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BEVbNe013006; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:31:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14003.mail.yahoo.com (web14003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2BEVYNe012960 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:31:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040311143127.54170.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:31:27 GMT Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:31:27 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] cotton velvet To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001501c40747$64b9b0e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I saw a comment once that 17th/18th century cotton velvet was referred to as "Plusche" by German tailors. Does anyone have documentation for that? --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi. > I dont know about the authenticy about cotton > velvet. But silk velvet is fake today, so you dont > have any options. > Cotton velvet looks a little poor versus silk > velvet, but then again you have to make choises. > I am travelling today to the gustavian society. We > are having a teaparty at Hufudsta Castle friday > evening and then a party at Nyckelviken, small > country place. I shall go in a cotton velvet suit at > the Hufudsta Castle tea party and wait for the full > dress to Nyckelviken. > As always, lots of photos will be taken, and > uploaded on my webpage next week. I shall return on > sunday. > My train is leaving in 2 hours time, so i have > packed all my things. > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 10:30:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BFUbSd018613 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:30:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BFU5cP017138; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:30:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BFU3Ne054803; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:30:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BFTuNe054696 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:29:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.105.4143e481 (25711) for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:29:49 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <105.4143e481.2d81dfed@aol.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:29:49 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/11/2004 7:14:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, lynn@close-hainsworth.fslife.co.uk writes: > It doesn't sound to me like he's got much respect for his subject matter. Indeed. So let him just dress everyone in jeans and T-shirts and lets see how dramatic and convincing it all is. What's wrong with him anyway? Hasn't he seen something like "Topsy Turvy"? Are we the viewers to believe it's really Mary, Queen of Scots, or some actress and some extras in stuff rented from Angels? Pure anti-intellectualism. An excuse to dumb it down. Sounds like he doesn't want to pay the costume department. It's all about $$$$ y'know.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 10:35:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BFZgSd018635 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:35:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BFYqcP017505; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:34:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BFYnNe057914; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:34:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BFYmNe057836 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:34:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.1c7.16443341 (3866) for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:34:37 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1c7.16443341.2d81e10d@aol.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:34:37 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] cotton velvet To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/11/2004 3:02:10 AM Central Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: But silk velvet is fake today, so you dont have any options. This is not necessarily true. There are many different versions of silk velvet available. Some of them are not 100% silk velvet (either the pile or the backing or both is not pure silk), but you can still get true silk velvet. You just have to be willing to search for it, and pay dearly when you find it. -Tiff "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 10:41:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BFf8Sd018700 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:41:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BFeYcP018092; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:40:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BFeVNe061800; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:40:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BFeTNe061722 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:40:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.230]) by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (v93.12) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-4405088603e7; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:40:16 -0500 Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.db.570740b (25711) for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:34:58 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:34:58 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/11/2004 9:24:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, r.carnegie@verizon.net writes: > Rob Roy is one of my favorite movies, the > clothing (that is the highland dress) is often very badly done but the story > makes up for it (as do some of Tim Roth's clothing). > Mine too...but I like the clothes, and find the story lacking in places. It's not accurate but informed costuming. The clothes CONTRIBUTE and are not just willy nilly nor are they just made up. This is what one must do when designing a "costume drama". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 10:42:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BFg6Sd018713 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:42:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BFfRcP018189; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:41:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BFfQNe062402; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:41:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BFfMNe062323 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:41:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.1c7.16443345 (3866) for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:41:05 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1c7.16443345.2d81e291@aol.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:41:05 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/11/2004 6:14:04 AM Central Standard Time, lynn@close-hainsworth.fslife.co.uk writes: Actually the period element should be secondary to the fact that you're trying to tell an interesting story. This comment sticks right up under my skin for this reason: So many of the HISTORICAL dramas that I've seen, both film and TV, have such utterly godawful thrown-together anachronistic costuming, that I CAN'T concentrate on the story. The complete disregard shown to the costumes makes me laugh, roll my eyes or change the channel, because it ticks me off. They pay scrupulous attention to the plot, or the dialogue, or the sets, or the props, or the cinematography, or the casting; but then they throw everyone in some schoolchild's vision of clothing. Perhaps if producers like this started showing some respect for the very crucial element of costuming, it would show some back. But as long as they're going to act like it doesn't matter what the characters wear ... well, tough tacos, big guy. If I'm watching a movie where every element is so masterfully put together that nothing jumps out at me or rips me out of the time and place, then the costumes (while certainly enjoyable) are less likely to be a big issue for me. -Tiff "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 10:45:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BFjESd018747 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:45:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BFiTcP018477; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:44:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BFiRNe064670; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:44:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BFiJNe064574 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:44:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_28810+JAGae91741)/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA26213 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:44:16 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:43:20 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <105.4143e481.2d81dfed@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New Anne Boleyn biography X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Joanna Denny has authored a 400 page biog of Anne Boleyn for the Tudor costumers on this list. Amazon.com.uk has a release date of April 8th for this book: Anne Boleyn: A New Life of England's Tragic Queen for those of you, like me, who eagerly await most major Tudor biog. For those of you on the west side of the pond willing to wait and save some $$ whether they are Canadian or U.S., Amazon.ca has release dates of May 31 for the hardcover and June for the paperback. Denny's book from the brief blurb on the Amazon.uk website, seems as it will be more understanding of Anne and her times than the recent views from Antonia Frasier, Alison Weir, and most male writers. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 10:57:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BFvVSd018827 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:57:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BFulcP019479; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:56:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BFuiNe073249; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:56:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BFugNe073221 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:56:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_28810+JAGae91741)/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA23606 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:56:42 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:56:43 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <1c7.16443345.2d81e291@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Read "Hollywood and History" an excellent book of how the movies have shown the current(at the time of making of the film)fashionable aesthetic to some degree since the dawn of the motion picture. Edward Maeder is the author. He traces many films from designer's concept to finished product. Budget, time, concern with star actors vanity(or lack thereof, in a few cases), studio heads' concern, and even the Hays Code have all played a part in influencing historic film costuming. Fascinating reading For movies showing on TCM and AMC, especially, spotting all the anachronistics in costuming, makeup, and hairstyles is the fun!! Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:41 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama In a message dated 3/11/2004 6:14:04 AM Central Standard Time, lynn@close-hainsworth.fslife.co.uk writes: Actually the period element should be secondary to the fact that you're trying to tell an interesting story. This comment sticks right up under my skin for this reason: So many of the HISTORICAL dramas that I've seen, both film and TV, have such utterly godawful thrown-together anachronistic costuming, that I CAN'T concentrate on the story. The complete disregard shown to the costumes makes me laugh, roll my eyes or change the channel, because it ticks me off. They pay scrupulous attention to the plot, or the dialogue, or the sets, or the props, or the cinematography, or the casting; but then they throw everyone in some schoolchild's vision of clothing. Perhaps if producers like this started showing some respect for the very crucial element of costuming, it would show some back. But as long as they're going to act like it doesn't matter what the characters wear ... well, tough tacos, big guy. If I'm watching a movie where every element is so masterfully put together that nothing jumps out at me or rips me out of the time and place, then the costumes (while certainly enjoyable) are less likely to be a big issue for me. -Tiff "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 11:01:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BG16Sd018837 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:01:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BG0gcP019829; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:00:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BG0fNe076177; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:00:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imr-d06.mx.aol.com (imr-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.159.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BG0aNe076065 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:00:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.229]) by imr-d06.mx.aol.com (v97.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN1-240508be46d; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:55:16 -0500 Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.79.241dd90b (25711) for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:50:05 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <79.241dd90b.2d81e4ad@aol.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:50:05 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-AOL-IP: 172.18.150.229 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/11/2004 10:41:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com writes: > But as long as they're > going to act like it doesn't matter what the characters wear ... Haven't you heard???? Costuming is "woman's work". It's just for girls and fags. It's not important like the manly prop department. You guys realize I'm kidding, right? But there IS an attitude problem when it comes to costuming. An actress will in a heart beat exclaim "Oh, I'm not wearing yellow!" but she'll never say "This wall paper won't do!" My attitude is: If your looking at the actor, you're looking at the costume. You had better spent some time and energy on the thing. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 11:04:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BG45Sd018843 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:04:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BG3jcP020086; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:03:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BG3eNe078439; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:03:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BG3cNf078317 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:03:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-134-64.client.comcast.net[24.1.134.64]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004031115544801400kudhke>; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:54:48 +0000 Message-ID: <0ebf01c40781$296ef650$40860118@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1c7.16443345.2d81e291@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:54:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Then do not go to the movies for the costuming. Wear a blindfold and listen to the dialog. Read a book. Go to the movies that have nothing to do with period costuming. Just let it go. No use hurting yourself like that and I am not being mean. :( I know better, this is a real world. I do not want to go see a movie about the real world, I do not want to be scared out of my panties, I want to see beauty, laugh, take home a sweet story I can share with my kiddos. :) Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama : In a message dated 3/11/2004 6:14:04 AM Central Standard Time, : lynn@close-hainsworth.fslife.co.uk writes: : Actually the period element should be secondary to the fact that you're : trying to tell an interesting story. : : : This comment sticks right up under my skin for this reason: So many of the : HISTORICAL dramas that I've seen, both film and TV, have such utterly godawful : thrown-together anachronistic costuming, that I CAN'T concentrate on the : story. The complete disregard shown to the costumes makes me laugh, roll my eyes : or change the channel, because it ticks me off. They pay scrupulous attention : to the plot, or the dialogue, or the sets, or the props, or the : cinematography, or the casting; but then they throw everyone in some schoolchild's vision of : clothing. : : Perhaps if producers like this started showing some respect for the very : crucial element of costuming, it would show some back. But as long as they're : going to act like it doesn't matter what the characters wear ... well, tough : tacos, big guy. If I'm watching a movie where every element is so masterfully put : together that nothing jumps out at me or rips me out of the time and place, : then the costumes (while certainly enjoyable) are less likely to be a big issue : for me. : : -Tiff : "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 11:11:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BGBiSd018910 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:11:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BGBMcP020896; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:11:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BGBKNe084169; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:11:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BGBFNe084058 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:11:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.1ca.1bb8974a (3866) for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:11:02 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1ca.1bb8974a.2d81e996@aol.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:11:02 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/11/2004 10:05:47 AM Central Standard Time, chiara@io.com writes: Then do not go to the movies for the costuming. Wear a blindfold and listen to the dialog. Read a book. Go to the movies that have nothing to do with period costuming. Just let it go. No use hurting yourself like that and I am not being mean. :( I'm sorry, I'm not *hurting* myself at all. It's a bit unrealistic to suggest that people who adore, eat, sleep and breathe historical clothing, should just put themselves into some sort of bubble and not watch period pieces, because they might see something anachronistic. I have a better idea - how about if the directors and producers started trying to get it right instead! There's no way I'll ever just sit down and shut up and not have an opinion about movies which knowingly and intentionally misrepresent history. Incidentally - the "dialogue" is just as likely to be flawed and inaccurate for the period, if not more so. "I know better, this is a real world. I do not want to go see a movie about the real world, I do not want to be scared out of my panties, I want to see beauty, laugh, take home a sweet story I can share with my kiddos. :) Yes, this is the real world - so it would be lovely if directors, producers and movie costumers would portray the real world rather than their fantasyland. And true period clothing is far more beautiful than the bizarre combinations that many of these historical dramas come up with. If I want to see a fantasy piece, I'll go see LOTR or POTC (which I have, and adore these movies, and love the costumes). But if I'm watching something that purports to be a history piece, presenting a historical figure in historical surroundings with historical dialogue, then it would be nice if they would at least attempt to put them in historical clothing that is appropriate and accurate. -Tiff "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 11:19:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BGJVSd018944 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:19:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BGHPcP021480; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:17:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BGHNNe088694; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:17:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BGHJNe088662 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:17:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.176.69]) by smail2.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 10427717 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:07:51 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:17:29 -0600 Message-ID: <007201c40784$5abba160$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <105.4143e481.2d81dfed@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Whoa! A lot of garb snarking going on here! The guy does have a point. And compare it with Shakespeare's plays, which can be set (and costumed) in any time or place and still work. Kim (wearing my flame-proof vest) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of AlbertCat@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:30 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama In a message dated 3/11/2004 7:14:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, lynn@close-hainsworth.fslife.co.uk writes: > It doesn't sound to me like he's got much respect for his subject matter. Indeed. So let him just dress everyone in jeans and T-shirts and lets see how dramatic and convincing it all is. What's wrong with him anyway? Hasn't he seen something like "Topsy Turvy"? Are we the viewers to believe it's really Mary, Queen of Scots, or some actress and some extras in stuff rented from Angels? Pure anti-intellectualism. An excuse to dumb it down. Sounds like he doesn't want to pay the costume department. It's all about $$$$ y'know.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 11:39:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BGdRSd018998 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:39:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BGcucP023849; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BGcpbl005651; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:38:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f74.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BGcmbl005550 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:38:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:21:23 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:21:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:21:22 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Mar 2004 16:21:23.0021 (UTC) FILETIME=[E4E077D0:01C40784] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Greenland/Colonies (was Bog Dress) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Robin Netherton >"Woven into the Earth," a complete re-analysis by the curator in charge of >the artifacts, Else Ostergard... That's the one. I'm hoping that enough Libraries are going to buy copies so that it can be ILL'd, otherwise, I foresee some some majorly unhappy people. >Marc has a nice history of medieval Greenland on his site, at >http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/history/grontime.html >It lists colonization about 985. The colony died off sometime between 1410 >(last ship contact) and 1500. I always feel weird about that particular page. It's getting recognition way out of proportion to the amount of work that went in to it, mostly because there's nothing else out there. But yes, the date of colonization is pretty well established. It's only the dates that the (two) settlement areas died out that is in doubt. The first died out around 1350 (and even the Greenlanders in the other settlement couldn't say for sure when it happened). >From: "Nancy Kiel" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Bog dress & American colonies (OT) >I must point out that the first permanent English settlement in the New >World was JAMESTOWN, not Plymouth. Jamestown was founded in 1607 (I work >there, so I know). The Pilgrims just had better press. Just to be pedantic, we probably want to avoid the word "permanent". Jamestown lasted for less than a century, by which most of the inhabitants had moved on to other places. The only major difference between that and Roanoake (1584/7-) is that we KNOW where the Jamestown inhabitants moved on to (mostly). This doesn't even count the French (1562 Florida) or the Spanish (1493 Isabella on Hispaniolla; or 1526 San Miguel de Guadalupe in Georgia if you want to stick to the Continental North America, or 1565 Saint Augustine), or my personal favorites - the Basque whalers in Labrador and Newfoundland. starting in the 1520 and lasting about a century - curiously placing them in the area of "norse settlement" in Newfoundland - but I digress). Sorry, I've had this dispute several times about when the "first European Shoemakers" showed up in North America. None of this of course, alters the Robin's point that Greenland was an established European colony for a minimum of 425 years (985-1410) and probably a few years longer than that. 425 years before now was 1579. Which means that if the Herjolfsnes folks WERE wearing 10th century then the clothing styles had not changed at all in that time. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! http://msn.careerbuilder.com/promo/kaday.htm?siteid=CBMSN_1K&sc_extcmp=JS_JASweep_MSNHotm2 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 11:58:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BGwDSd019080 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:58:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BGvRcP025566; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:57:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BGvNbl020220; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:57:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BGvJbl020133 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:57:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-134-64.client.comcast.net[24.1.134.64]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004031116474401500ovahse>; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:47:44 +0000 Message-ID: <0ee801c40788$8d2b0510$40860118@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1ca.1bb8974a.2d81e996@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:47:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, that is a hell of lot better clarification than the last email you sent. :) Your really did sound hurt. But you are on the wrong list if you think those folks are here any longer than to find and download our archives, filter out what they do not want, and leave. Got my SAG card here somewhere ... Good luck in changing Hollywood. You have a better chance with the Indy's. They will listen. Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama : I'm sorry, I'm not *hurting* myself at all. It's a bit unrealistic to : suggest that people who adore, eat, sleep and breathe historical clothing, should : just put themselves into some sort of bubble and not watch period pieces, : because they might see something anachronistic. : _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 12:12:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BHCeSd019159 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:12:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BHBocP026904; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:11:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BHBmbl031440; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:11:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts12.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BHBhbl031327 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:11:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.70.4.24]) by simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040311161358.EMIC29576.simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:13:58 -0500 Message-ID: <003d01c40784$49b20ee0$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:16:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Supplies! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi! Is there anyone on this list in the Toronto area? I will be running out of buckram very soon and need to find out where I can go (or send someone) to get a fresh supply. I moved from western Canada this past summer, and I am still trying to find suppliers to keep me in 'stuff' for my evil, fun, sewing addiction. :-) Anything North of Toronto would be helpful too, as I'm living in Sudbury. Mail order would be fine as well. I'm also looking for Wool batt for felt making. Thanks for any ideas! Sheridan ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* The wind riz and then it blew, the rain friz and then it snew. Spring has sprung, the grass is riz, I wonder where the flowers is. Spring has sprung, fall has fell, winter's here and it's cold as heck. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 12:21:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BHLKSd019202 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:21:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BHKOcP027715; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:20:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BHKMbl038135; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:20:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail5.mdx.safepages.com (mail5.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BHKGbl038108 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:20:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC5101CC136 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:02:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail5.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail5.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 36017-03 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:02:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 706A21CC251; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:02:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust99.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.99]) by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1D1991CC262 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:02:30 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <0b0d01c4078a$cd41f670$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Bog dress & American colonies (OT) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:03:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2BHLKSd019202 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Kiel" > I must point out that the first permanent English settlement in the New > World was JAMESTOWN, not Plymouth. Jamestown was founded in 1607 (I work > there, so I know). The Pilgrims just had better press. ...And of course, there are the Spanish settlements, which predate Jamestown by quite a bit. (I had an ancestor on the 3rd boat to Jamestown, by the way, and have been having trouble tracking down exactly what date that would have been--do you know?) I spent my childhood in Santa Marta, Colombia, which is the 2nd oldest city in South America (founded 1525) ...and which has a continuing argument with nearby Cartagena (founded 1533) because Cartagena claims to be the oldest city in Colombia (they're wrong). In fact, it was such a spirited argument that we were taught the subject in kindergarten, and the memory has stuck with me over 20 years! Older cities include León Viejo, Nicaragua (1524), and of course the first European settlement on the American continents (and in North America) was La Villa Rica de la Vera Cruz (1519); however, as the current Veracruz is rather distant from the original settlement, Veracruz is not the oldest city. It's old hat to many European medieval costume researchers, but for an American, it's something of a unique experience to know that the city I spent my childhood in existed when they were making those nifty clothes I love so much (I lose interest in the 1530s, so it's a squeaker, but the dates still work). Spanish settlements, by the way, were populated by Europeans other than just Spaniards; among others, many disaffected Irish joined the Spanish army. That ancestor on the 3rd boat to Jamestown wasn't my first European ancestor to set foot in the Americas, not by a few decades! But the Irish who sided with Spain BEFORE they called themselvse the 'Wild Geese' and before the establishment of the Hibernia Regiment in Spain's army are a group that get almost no press at all. =} [. . . Although they're starting to get a bit--did you know that the historical Zorro may have been an Irishman (or possibly transplanted Englishman) named William Lamport, who was born in County Wexford in 1615, joined the Spanish army, then made his way to Mexico and was eventually burned at the stake by the Spanish Inquisition? Very interesting guy, and from what I've read, his life story would have made a much better movie than that mess we were treated to a few years back.] -E (Hey, everyone's got a button, right? Now, someone bring up Prince Madoc and the "who got there first" argument will be complete! =} ) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 12:48:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BHmJSd019349 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:48:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BHlTcP000405; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:47:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BHlIbl059560; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:47:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BHlCbl059447 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:47:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.157.2fc6e9d6 (4012) for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:41:53 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <157.2fc6e9d6.2d81fee1@aol.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:41:53 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/11/2004 11:09:37 AM Central Standard Time, chiara@io.com writes: But you are on the wrong list if you think those folks are here any longer than to find and download our archives, filter out what they do not want, and leave. Got my SAG card here somewhere ... Good luck in changing Hollywood. You have a better chance with the Indy's. They will listen. Chiara What folks? Who are the "Indy's?" I think you're reading wayyyyy too much into my posts and really putting your own spin on them. The idea that I would be *hurt* by what costumes are put in any movie is a bit out there. I'm aggravated by the lack of attention given to accurate costuming, that's all. I'm not running around wasting time trying to change Hollywood or anyone else, I am simply expressing my opinion on the way *some* directors/producers view costuming period dramas. And BBC - which was what the original topic was about - is quite a ways from Hollywood. -Tiff "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 12:57:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BHvdSd019400 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:57:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BHvCcP001267; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:57:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BHvCbl067304; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:57:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14010.mail.yahoo.com (web14010.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2BHtvbl066296 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:55:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040311175554.23053.qmail@web14010.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14010.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:55:54 GMT Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:55:54 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: Medieval_Spain@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Oldest Colony in the Americas X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think the oldest colony in the Americas was founded in Panama. The Church of Nata was built in 1522. Catalina ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 13:08:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BI8WSd019452 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:08:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BI7icP002132; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:07:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BI7fbl075853; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:07:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f19.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BI7Zbl075721 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:07:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:50:03 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:50:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:50:02 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Mar 2004 17:50:03.0020 (UTC) FILETIME=[47D7E4C0:01C40791] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Shoemakers (was Bog dress & American colonies) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "E House" >...And of course, there are the Spanish settlements, which predate > >Jamestown by quite a bit. (I had an ancestor on the 3rd boat to >Jamestown, >by the way, and have been having trouble tracking down exactly >what date >that would have been--do you know?) The third boat to Jamestown was still the first voyage (which was comprised of 3 ships (Susan Constant, Discovery and that other one, oh right Godspeed). >I spent my childhood in Santa Marta, Colombia, which is the 2nd oldest city > >in South America (founded 1525) ...and which has a continuing argument > >with nearby Cartagena (founded 1533) because Cartagena claims to be the > >oldest city in Colombia (they're wrong). In fact, it was such a spirited > >argument that we were taught the subject in kindergarten, and the memory > >has stuck with me over 20 years! They didn't happen to discuss early Spanish shoemakers did they? (just grasping at straws). >Older cities include León Viejo, Nicaragua (1524), and of course the first > >European settlement on the American continents (and in North America) was > >La Villa Rica de la Vera Cruz (1519); however, as the current Veracruz is > >rather distant from the original settlement, Veracruz is not the oldest >city. Isn't the village Punta Villa Rica still in existance? Marc _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 13:54:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BIsbSd019637 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:54:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BIkMcP005769; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:46:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BIkDbl007039; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:46:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20206.mail.yahoo.com (web20206.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2BIkBbl007011 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:46:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040311184610.29415.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:46:10 PST Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:46:10 -0800 (PST) From: Angela Kessler Subject: RE: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Ron Carnegie wrote: > I can > believe that sometimes history gets in the way of a > good story (look at > Hidalgo) but rarely does costume get in the way. > (well maybe physically! ;) Unfortunately, I think it can. Costume (on screen or in real life) is a way of communicating something about the person's character to the viewer. And associations change, as the fashions we are used to seeing change. A character wearing clothing that in its own time might have said "beautiful young lady" or "respectable businessman" might now say to most people "slightly deformed woman" or "eccentric". I don't like it either, but even for the people who want to, changing the public's perceptions is necessarily a lengthy process, because it involves changing a perception of "normal." And we have quite a few decades of tradition in portraying historic costume on stage/screen that can't just be erased. -Angela __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 14:28:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BJSgSd019817 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:28:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BJMbcP009009; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:22:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BJMYbl035657; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:22:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BJMRbl035605 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:22:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.94] (pm7-094.eos.net [205.133.149.94]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BJMMHC029605 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:22:22 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:22:04 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200403111901.i2BJ1tbm019765@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 177 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just got the digest listed in the subject line -- four messages, all replies to other messages I have not seen. Lately, I have been getting quite a few replies without original messages, but this is a record. Is anyone else, on or off the digest, having this problem? If it's just me, what could account for it? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 14:35:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BJZGSd019871 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:35:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BJYOcP010007; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:34:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BJYKbl044465; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:34:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BJYDbl044404 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:34:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09901 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:04:55 -0600 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:04:55 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Greenland/Colonies (was Bog Dress) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Marc Carlson wrote: > None of this of course, alters the Robin's point that Greenland was an > established European colony for a minimum of 425 years (985-1410) and > probably a few years longer than that. 425 years before now was 1579. Thanks, Marc. I didn't mean to start an argument about which settlement in the Americas was oldest. My point was to provide a frame of reference for the people I find myself lecturing to, who often tend to think of the wearers of the Herjolfsnes garments as immigrant settlers in the process of carving out homes from scratch in a new country -- and failing. In terms of length of time in the colony, it would make more sense to think of them as equivalent to modern USians who talk about their ancestors having come over on the Mayflower (which essentially translates to "we've been here for a very long time and are well established"). That is: the Greenland colonies lasted about 400 years before they failed, and they apparently did reasonably well for most of that time, or they'd have gone the way of Roanoake long before then. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 14:35:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BJZiSd019877 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:35:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BJYncP010051; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:34:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BJYnbl044842; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:34:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out004.verizon.net (out004pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.142]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BJYKbl044463 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:34:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([151.199.154.30]) by out004.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040311193417.VKLI11989.out004.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:34:17 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: American colonies (OT) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:34:16 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <0b0d01c4078a$cd41f670$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [151.199.154.30] at Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:34:17 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, that's why Jamestowne was referred to by Nancy as the first successful English settlement. The English themselves had earlier attempts at settlement most notably on Baffin bay and Roanoke island. The Spanish were already all over the place prior to these dates. Not only in the West Indies and South America, but even on the mainland of North America. St Augustine is I believe the oldest permanently lived in European city in North America. I was going to say just oldest city, but by that defintition I suspect Chicago or Mexico City will be found to older. Maybe plenty of others. A lot of these European settlers built their cities atop already existing cities or villages. There were also settlements in the southwest and even here in the Tidewater Virginia (not successful). By the bye, we have records not only of the arrival date of that third ship (though I am not sure how it was determined which was third) but also who was on that voyage as sailors and as settlers. I think later voyages would be more difficult, but the first voyage is very well documented. I wonder if your source meant third voyage... Easy enough to find out though, just match your ancestor to the list! (There is by the way a Jamestown Society which I believe is similar to the Daughter of the Revolution or Confederacy or so on). That group tracks for many Jamestown ancestors and for a far larger period than just the original voyage. These people could no doubt help you. Now there IS a habit of biasing history in a strange hierarchy in America. New England first, than British, and then European. Cheers, Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of E House > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:04 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Bog dress & American colonies (OT) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nancy Kiel" > > > I must point out that the first permanent English settlement in the New > > World was JAMESTOWN, not Plymouth. Jamestown was founded in > 1607 (I work > > there, so I know). The Pilgrims just had better press. > > > ...And of course, there are the Spanish settlements, which > predate Jamestown by quite a bit. (I had an ancestor on the 3rd > boat to Jamestown, by the way, and have been having trouble > tracking down exactly what date that would have been--do you know?) > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 14:53:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BJrsSd019929 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:53:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BJr9cP011768; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:53:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BJr6bl058717; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:53:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out001.verizon.net (out001pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BJr1bl058671 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:53:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([151.199.154.30]) by out001.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040311195256.UPFR1464.out001.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:52:56 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:52:54 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out001.verizon.net from [151.199.154.30] at Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:52:55 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are some whopping hitstorical errors with the story to (Like anyone would ever confuse Lord Argyll (a Campbell) for being a Jacobite! I agree with you by the way. The costumer did research but adapted. She (I think it was a women) admitted that very fact. She used boot like things for instance for similar reason to what was mentioned here earlier (off kilter thread) When I put down the costume for this film I specifically mean for the history. I still think they looked good and for me they didn't distract from the film. I know for some they did (Are you still here on this list Kathleen?) I read and interesting review and interview with the costumer in the L.A, times years ago. They used to (I hope they still do) run a Fashion in Hollywood column in there that was very good. And as it was brought up, in the industry Hollywood is usually used to describe the Industry, or at least the big players of the industry regardless of there actual location. That's why Rob Roy which was made in Ireland can still be covered in a Fashion in Hollywood column. Typically in this sense Hollywood is being used in the negative sense, so often non-Hollywood studios will contest this statement! The "indy" world tends to use it for anything mainstream. Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of AlbertCat@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:35 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama > > > In a message dated 3/11/2004 9:24:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, > r.carnegie@verizon.net writes: > > > Rob Roy is one of my favorite movies, the > > clothing (that is the highland dress) is often very badly done > but the story > > makes up for it (as do some of Tim Roth's clothing). > > > > Mine too...but I like the clothes, and find the story lacking in > places. It's > not accurate but informed costuming. The clothes CONTRIBUTE and > are not just > willy nilly nor are they just made up. This is what one must do > when designing > a "costume drama". > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 15:01:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BK1FSd019954 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:01:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BK0RcP012426; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:00:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BK0Qbl064081; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:00:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail2.mdx.safepages.com (mail2.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BK0Ibl064014 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:00:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6BFF1D1401 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:38:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail2.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail2.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16004-04 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:38:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 750391D144B; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:38:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust99.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.99]) by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6B8571D147C for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:38:23 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <0b5e01c407a0$944db960$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoemakers (was Bog dress & American colonies) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:39:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2BK1FSd019954 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Carlson" > The third boat to Jamestown was still the first voyage (which was comprised > of 3 ships (Susan Constant, Discovery and that other one, oh right > Godspeed). Thanks! I hadn't done too much research, but that would definitely explain why I thought I'd failed to turn up the date--I kept looking after the first voyage! > They didn't happen to discuss early Spanish shoemakers did they? (just > grasping at straws). No, but I assume you're familiar with the fortalezas in the Cartagena/Santa Marta area? When I toured them (~20 years ago) they did have a good many artifacts; I just can't remember any details of their displays, although it has stuck in my mind that some pre-dated the forts themselves. Unfortunately, the older artifacts might have just been, ykno, old cannon-balls and the like, but if you haven't yet, you may want to write them for information. Places worth trying in Santa Marta and Cartagena are San Felipe de Barajas, San Fernando, and San Jose de Bocachica. The Basílical Menor (a cathedral begun in the 1530s, if I remember right) has certain relics and other historical material. I've visited each, but honestly I can't remember what was where, except that (sadly) one was having serious flooding problems which destroyed some of the artifacts. Oh! And I know nothing about it, but in Cartagena there's a place called Monumento a los Zapatos Viejos (old shoes)! I might be able to help a bit with native shoemaking, but that's probably no use to you. There are several excellent colonial museums in that area with at least some 16thC information, but I REALLY wouldn't suggest a visit, especially not to Santa Marta; write instead. It's even more dangerous than its reputation, but the danger goes beyond run-of-the-mill shootings, muggings, blood feuds, drug wars, etc. My family is still in touch with several Colombian friends, and the news we hear from them tends to run along the lines of "Remember that village in which you spent the dry seasons? It was razed by guerrilleros and the survivors were taken into slavery." You know those moments when you really feel like you're connecting with history? Yeah, well, they're not all good. > Isn't the village Punta Villa Rica still in existance? Yes, but my understanding is that it wasn't continuously inhabited, as the original Vera Cruz inhabitants all moved--I could be wrong, though. -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 15:10:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BKADSd020000 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:10:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BK9OcP013277; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:09:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BK9Lbl070950; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:09:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out004.verizon.net (out004pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.142]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BK9Dbl070873 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:09:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([151.199.154.30]) by out004.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040311200911.VWBI11989.out004.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:09:11 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:09:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20040311184610.29415.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [151.199.154.30] at Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:09:10 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I might not have been clear. That is exactly what I was referring to when I said ,"I am fully aware of the other reasons that might argue against costume accuracy, budget, modern perceptions, actor obstinence, etc." Modern perceptions, like some we have discussed recently on this list is where I meant much the same as what you are saying. I think it is often over used as a reason or crutch to bad costuming (or sometimes creative costuming), but nonetheless it can be a reason to avoid accuracy. That is why I choose the word rarely. Some of Rob roys errors were for this reason. Musketeer films have long been guilty of this and all of the Errol Flynn stuff. That was why I didn't use him as an example in the unmanly clothing thread earlier. Yes he was manly (maybe to much so ;) ) but frankly I think he rarely dressed periodly. They took some dashing parts of historic dress but mixed them with what would still be considered dashing and sexy to the modern audience. As a historian and working actor I really think a good actor can over ride these perceptions. Many actors how ever wont even try! This is part of the reason that often the extras (sorry their called background actors now) are often more historically accurate than the main characters! They just don't have the clout to make demands regarding costume, stars do! Jose Ferrer's Cyrano is a good example of this phenomena. That's what I meant by actor's obstinence! Someone mentioned in with the "I won't wear yellow" analogy. Hollywood and History talks a bit about this. Cheers, Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Angela Kessler > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 1:46 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama > > > > --- Ron Carnegie wrote: > > I can > > believe that sometimes history gets in the way of a > > good story (look at > > Hidalgo) but rarely does costume get in the way. > > (well maybe physically! ;) > > Unfortunately, I think it can. Costume (on screen or > in real life) is a way of communicating something > about the person's character to the viewer. And > associations change, as the fashions we are used to > seeing change. A character wearing clothing that in > its own time might have said "beautiful young lady" or > "respectable businessman" might now say to most people > "slightly deformed woman" or "eccentric". > > I don't like it either, but even for the people who > want to, changing the public's perceptions is > necessarily a lengthy process, because it involves > changing a perception of "normal." And we have quite > a few decades of tradition in portraying historic > costume on stage/screen that can't just be erased. > > -Angela > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster > http://search.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 15:27:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BKR6Sd020139 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:27:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BKPDcP014679; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:25:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BKP8bl083348; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:25:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BKP4bl083292 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:25:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2BJPRZ18313 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:25:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B1UCH-0001NR-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:42:17 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Supplies! Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:42:30 -0700 Message-ID: <004401c40790$3a214340$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003d01c40784$49b20ee0$cb6afea9@sherry> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been very happy with Greenberg and Hammer: http://www.greenberg-hammer.com, they are obviously in the US...wasn't sure if that was okay.. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 15:51:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BKpJSd020296 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:51:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BKoTcP016955; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:50:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BKoKbl003874; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:50:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from uranium.btinternet.com (uranium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BKoFbl003818 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:50:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stevie.gamble@btinternet.com) Received: from [81.128.250.209] (helo=dan) by uranium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1B1X88-0003Ap-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:50:12 +0000 Message-ID: <012601c407aa$b9f9b100$d1fa8051@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:52:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pleating 18th. c. petticoats, help, please! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, Help! Right, I'm at the point of pleating the petticoat which goes under my sack, and I'm faced with pleating around 160 inches into 28. I know I'm supposed to slant the pleats slightly upwards towards the pocket gap of the hoops, to try to stop them slithering off, but at the moment I'm more concerned with how to get this much material smoothly pleated at the waistline. Preferably without double pleats, because the sack pleats have to go over this as well, without, I hope, making too much bulk. Does anyone have a pet solution to this? Or even a wild one? thanks and best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 16:03:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BL3LSd020361 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:03:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BL2GcP018153; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:02:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BL2Cbl013407; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:02:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BL27bl013335 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:02:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E515E1D17B for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:02:04 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p102.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.104]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B6E9AC50F for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:02:03 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Bog dress & American colonies (OT) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:02:06 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <0b0d01c4078a$cd41f670$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would say that the oldest European settlement would have been the Cymri which would have dated around 950 A.D. :) There is a new theory that the Phoenicians were in "Americas" before Madoc. In that some archeologist believe that King Solomon's gold mines were located in Haiti and not Africa. Read a long article on how the length of time from Haiti to Jerusalem matched the records, the finding of old gold mines and other thing to prove their theory. Arian -----Original Message----- -E (Hey, everyone's got a button, right? Now, someone bring up Prince Madoc and the "who got there first" argument will be complete! =} ) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 16:08:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BL8NSd020370 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:08:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BL7gcP018752; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:07:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BL7ebl017854; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:07:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14003.mail.yahoo.com (web14003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2BL7Wbl017795 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:07:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040311210611.39626.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:06:11 GMT Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:06:11 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Legend of the black pearls X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has anyone heard of or seen documentation for the legends concerning the black pearls of Eleonora de Toledo that eventually came to be owned by Mary Queen of Scots? ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 16:12:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BLBwSd020383 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:11:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLBEcP019099; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:11:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLBDbl020726; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:11:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLB7bl020636 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:11:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B1XSG-000B98-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:11:00 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:48:36 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] button holes References: <004a01c40694$316c8ae0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <004a01c40694$316c8ae0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Finishing costumes on the coach/train/plane is standard practice among people I know. Of course, they're not doing the sort of beautiful and precise work you do. But there was one occasion where three people made sure they got seats together on the plane so they could each do a section of the hem on one dress, to get it finished. Jean Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote > >Hi the list. >I have just assembled my waistcoat. But i still have to make the >buttonholes, 11 in all. >As i have a lot of other things to do, pack my things, iron shirt and >so on, could you please answer this silly question. >I baught a train ticket for 1.st class, do you think i could use the >time in the train to sew the buttonholes? Nearly 6 hours of drive to >Stockholm? > >Bjarne > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 16:12:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BLCBSd020387 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:12:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLBRcP019152; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLBPbl020899; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:11:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLB7bl020635 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:11:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B1XSG-000B99-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:11:00 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:05:33 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama References: <414292.1079006145883.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> In-Reply-To: <414292.1079006145883.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Having read some of the responses to this, I find I have two approaches. I don't have a problem with historical drama, ie fiction, being done in all sorts of costume - modern or 20s or Victorian or futuristic/fantasy, whatever the director thinks will suit the story being told. But if you're doing it to, in some way, teach history, it's more important that the costume should be right. One of the standards that I saw once for university history courses is that they should foster a sense of "the otherness of the past" - in other words, you can't understand people's behaviour unless you take account of the culture and ethics and so on of their time, and the fact that it was different from ours. In a TV production, costume helps to do that, so you can't do it in modern dress, and the costuming and setting has to be good enough that viewers can feel that they are watching people from the past, and not just modern people who are just like us really, but dressed funny. I hope I make some sense! Jean Freyalyn Close-Hainsworth wrote >Some people may already have heard of 'Gunpowder, Treason and Plot', a >new BBC2 costume drama starting this weekend, part one on the life of >Mary Queen of Scots and the second on the life of her son. I'm sure >this will be shown in the US at some point soon. >However, I read a quote from the producer and thought it worth >reproducing here for discussion: >"I'm very interested in this term 'costume drama' because what it does >is put costume before drama - quite literally - and you do feel they're >more about the bloody costumes than the drama. Actually the period >element should be secondary to the fact that you're trying to tell an >interesting story. The whole point about going back in history is to >find the universal theme that has relevance today. >"The Gunpowder Plot is the original terrorist story involving >explosives. You've got to ask yourself what parallels Catholics trying >to blow up Parliament has with Islamic fundamentalists trying to blow >up the Pentagon today. And then ask yourself whether that's more >worthwhile than the idea of most costume drama, which is characters >dressed up like Quality Street prancing around on the screen" >It doesn't sound to me like he's got much respect for his subject >matter. Well, should costume drama be done to tell the stories of the >people it represents, or is it solely valuable to comment on today's >society? >Discuss.... >Freyalyn (now running for cover) >Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save £7.50 a month >www.freeserve.com/anytime >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 16:13:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BLDKSd020391 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:13:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLCbcP019269; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:12:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLCYbl021754; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:12:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLCEbl021534 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:12:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD0C21D178 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:12:13 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p102.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.104]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B83BFC50F for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:12:12 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: American colonies (OT) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:12:15 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are many cities and towns today in N. Amer. that were once sites of Native American Indian cities. Arian -----Original Message----- StAugustine is I believe the oldest permanently lived in European city in North America. I was going to say just oldest city, but by that defintition I suspect Chicago or Mexico City will be found to older. Maybe plenty of others. A lot of these European settlers built their cities atop already existing cities or villages. There were also settlements in the southwest and even here in the Tidewater Virginia (not successful). By the bye, we have records not only of the arrival date of that third ship (though I am not sure how it was determined which was third) but also who was on that voyage as sailors and as settlers. I think later voyages would be more difficult, but the first voyage is very well documented. I wonder if your source meant third voyage... Easy enough to find out though, just match your ancestor to the list! (There is by the way a Jamestown Society which I believe is similar to the Daughter of the Revolution or Confederacy or so on). That group tracks for many Jamestown ancestors and for a far larger period than just the original voyage. These people could no doubt help you. Now there IS a habit of biasing history in a strange hierarchy in America. New England first, than British, and then European. Cheers, Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of E House > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:04 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Bog dress & American colonies (OT) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nancy Kiel" > > > I must point out that the first permanent English settlement in the New > > World was JAMESTOWN, not Plymouth. Jamestown was founded in > 1607 (I work > > there, so I know). The Pilgrims just had better press. > > > ...And of course, there are the Spanish settlements, which > predate Jamestown by quite a bit. (I had an ancestor on the 3rd > boat to Jamestown, by the way, and have been having trouble > tracking down exactly what date that would have been--do you know?) > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 16:16:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BLG2Sd020407 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:16:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLFAcP019595; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:15:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLF7bl023707; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:15:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from netkauai-1.dns-netkauai.com (circlesoflight.com [66.206.11.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLEpbm023554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:14:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisa@darklord.com) Received: from adsl-69-104-141-240.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net ([69.104.141.240] helo=darklord.com) by netkauai-1.dns-netkauai.com with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1B1XVx-0004PP-6S for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:14:27 -1000 Message-ID: <4050D6BD.70200@darklord.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:14:37 -0800 From: Lisa VandenBerghe User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - netkauai-1.dns-netkauai.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - darklord.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] medieval button closure X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Bridgette and Robin! I have seen paintings with the sleeves laced by inner rings, but I really like the look of buttons too. I am making the buttons myself, so maybe I'll strive for the tiny "pea-size" commonly described in my research, so my button holes will be correspondingly small. It just would have been quicker to use the commercial buttons I have on hand and braid a loop edging... (my sleeve openings go all the way over the elbow) If I do turn up documentation later, I promise to post! -Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 16:21:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BLLnSd020433 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:21:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLLEcP020262; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:21:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLKubl028499; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:21:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from thrednedlestrete.com (mail02.enterhost.com [69.93.13.234]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLKhbl028242 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:20:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:20:36 -0600 Message-Id: <200403111520.AA32374830@thrednedlestrete.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval button closures X-Mailer: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO robin wrote: I've heard one person try to support the use of loops by pointing out that some manuscript artists show buttons as lying on the closure line rather than to the side of it. However, in the artwork in question, the images tend to be tiny and not terribly detailed, with the buttons only a series of dots painted along a single line, and I wouldn't put a lot of stock in their precision. I'd never considered loops before, and don't see evidence either, however, if you make your button holes so they are at right angles to the sleeve edge (horizontal, not vertical) and very close to the edge, (not a great deal of fabric between the button hole end, and the sleeve edge-50mm or less) the buttons do appear to stradle the closing line after they are buttoned. This position is assisted by the fact that the buttons used during the period have shanks. For hand stitched buttons, I use a first use a machine to make the button outline and then hand stitch over it. Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 16:24:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BLOeSd020444 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:24:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLNscP020486; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:23:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLNcbl030513; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:23:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out004.verizon.net (out004pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.142]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLMTbl029634 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:22:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([151.199.134.37]) by out004.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040311212223.WTFC11989.out004.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:22:23 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: American colonies (OT) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:22:22 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [151.199.134.37] at Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:22:23 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I thought I just said that! Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of otsisto > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:12 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: American colonies (OT) > > > There are many cities and towns today in N. Amer. that were once sites of > Native American Indian cities. > > Arian > > -----Original Message----- > > StAugustine is I believe the oldest permanently lived in European city in > North America. I was going to say just oldest city, but by that > defintition > I suspect Chicago or Mexico City will be found to older. Maybe plenty of > others. A lot of these European settlers built their cities atop already > existing cities or villages. There were also settlements in the southwest > and even here in the Tidewater Virginia (not successful). > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 16:32:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BLWZSd020468 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:32:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLUPcP021042; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:30:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLUKbl036045; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:30:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLUAbm035951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:30:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2BLToPV026498 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:29:50 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:29:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4050DA5D.9060108@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:30:05 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama References: <007201c40784$5abba160$0201a8c0@kimathlon> In-Reply-To: <007201c40784$5abba160$0201a8c0@kimathlon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO kim baird wrote: > A lot of garb snarking going on here! To my mind, a professional costumer is on an entirely different level of things than the average attendee at a historically-based event. So it's not snarking, any more than asking for financial information on a political candidate is being nosy. Different situation, different standards. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent From LoTR, the movie EE: Legolas: Lembas! One bite will fill a man's stomach! Pippin, to Merry: How many did *you* eat? Merry, whimpering: ... four... (belch) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 16:33:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BLXoSd020500 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:33:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLWpcP021289; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:32:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLWibl038029; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:32:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLWVbl037880 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:32:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D98A1C9A7 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:32:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p102.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.104]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0F43AC424 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:32:28 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:32:30 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <1c7.16443345.2d81e291@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Though it may have changed since I was in Theatre costuming, there wasn't much emphasis made on authentic for historical costumes. It was sort of gleaned over. I have noticed that "historical" and sometimes even fictional movies are becoming more and more "authentic" "historical looking" in their costumes. De -----Original Message----- lynn@close-hainsworth.fslife.co.uk writes: Actually the period element should be secondary to the fact that you're trying to tell an interesting story. * This comment sticks right up under my skin for this reason: So many of the HISTORICAL dramas that I've seen, both film and TV, have such utterly godawful thrown-together anachronistic costuming, that I CAN'T concentrate on the story. The complete disregard shown to the costumes makes me laugh, roll my eyes or change the channel, because it ticks me off. They pay scrupulous attention to the plot, or the dialogue, or the sets, or the props, or the cinematography, or the casting; but then they throw everyone in some schoolchild's vision of clothing. Perhaps if producers like this started showing some respect for the very crucial element of costuming, it would show some back. But as long as they're going to act like it doesn't matter what the characters wear ... well, tough tacos, big guy. If I'm watching a movie where every element is so masterfully put together that nothing jumps out at me or rips me out of the time and place, then the costumes (while certainly enjoyable) are less likely to be a big issue for me. -Tiff "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 16:39:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BLdBSd020528 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:39:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLcCcP021834; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:38:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLcAbl042321; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:38:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLc3bl042281 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:38:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([151.199.134.37]) by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040311213751.SOFN9273.out002.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:37:51 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: American colonies (OT) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:37:50 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [151.199.134.37] at Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:37:51 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes there is also "evidence" for the chinese, the Egyptians, and space aliens. Frankly most of these claims are a little weak. Of course the Vikings and inland used to be considered myth so who knows. I am surprised that almost no mention is made of a group of Europeans who were known with out scanty or made up evidence to have been here. That would be the Portuguese fisherman who have been fishing cod of the grand banks since at least the 15th century! I will gladly debate any of the pre-Viking discoverers any of you would like, but not here on this list. But what has any of this too do with costume? The real question is what did they wear while visiting or not visiting north America?! > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of otsisto > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:02 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Bog dress & American colonies (OT) > > > I would say that the oldest European settlement would have been the Cymri > which would have dated around 950 A.D. :) > > There is a new theory that the Phoenicians were in "Americas" > before Madoc. > In that some archeologist believe that King Solomon's gold mines were > located in Haiti and not Africa. > Read a long article on how the length of time from Haiti to Jerusalem > matched the records, the finding of old gold mines and other > thing to prove > their theory. > > Arian > > -----Original Message----- > -E > (Hey, everyone's got a button, right? Now, someone bring up > Prince Madoc and > the "who got there first" argument will be complete! =} ) > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 16:43:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BLhjSd020542 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:43:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLgkcP022250; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:42:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLgjbl045932; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:42:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLghbl045890 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:42:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FB341D0E6 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:42:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p102.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.104]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 80876C50F for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:42:41 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: American colonies (OT) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:42:43 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You had a "maybe" in front. I was just making it a definite "there are" De -----Original Message----- I thought I just said that! Ron > -----Original Message----- > There are many cities and towns today in N. Amer. that were once sites of > Native American Indian cities. > > Arian > > -----Original Message----- > > Maybe plenty of > others. A lot of these European settlers built their cities atop already > existing cities or villages. There were also settlements in the southwest > and even here in the Tidewater Virginia (not successful). > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 16:49:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BLnjSd020580 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:49:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLmucP022890; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:48:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLmrbl050679; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:48:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav54.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BLlfbl049661 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:47:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:47:35 -0800 Received: from 24.58.109.191 by bay1-dav54.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:47:35 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.109.191] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040311210611.39626.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Legend of the black pearls Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:47:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Mar 2004 21:47:35.0600 (UTC) FILETIME=[770B0300:01C407B2] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Those were the "cursed" Medici pearls given to Mary by Catherine. IIRC they eventually wound up with Queen Victoria who was sued by Hanover for their return (technically they did belong in Hanover) and are worn now by HRH Elizabeth II in pieces. Marie Antoinette also wore them supposedly. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catalina Saravia Quicedo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:06 PM Subject: [h-cost] Legend of the black pearls > Has anyone heard of or seen documentation for the > legends concerning the black pearls of Eleonora de > Toledo that eventually came to be owned by Mary Queen > of Scots? > > ===== > Catalina > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 17:04:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BM3wSd020647 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:03:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BM3BcP024529; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:03:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BM35bl061934; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:03:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BM31bl061890 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:03:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E0891CE7D for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:03:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p102.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.104]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BCDBFC5ED for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:02:58 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: American colonies (OT) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:03:01 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Though this thread is listed as off topic, the small connection to costume/clothing is the possible influence of European garments on the natives of the American continents and visa versa. The further back the "colony" the stronger possibilty of impact. As for the Phonecians, They seem to be all over the world and this was in comment to the off topic thread. De -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Ron Carnegie Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:38 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: American colonies (OT) Yes there is also "evidence" for the chinese, the Egyptians, and space aliens. Frankly most of these claims are a little weak. Of course the Vikings and inland used to be considered myth so who knows. I am surprised that almost no mention is made of a group of Europeans who were known with out scanty or made up evidence to have been here. That would be the Portuguese fisherman who have been fishing cod of the grand banks since at least the 15th century! I will gladly debate any of the pre-Viking discoverers any of you would like, but not here on this list. But what has any of this too do with costume? The real question is what did they wear while visiting or not visiting north America?! > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of otsisto > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:02 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Bog dress & American colonies (OT) > > > I would say that the oldest European settlement would have been the Cymri > which would have dated around 950 A.D. :) > > There is a new theory that the Phoenicians were in "Americas" > before Madoc. > In that some archeologist believe that King Solomon's gold mines were > located in Haiti and not Africa. > Read a long article on how the length of time from Haiti to Jerusalem > matched the records, the finding of old gold mines and other > thing to prove > their theory. > > Arian > > -----Original Message----- > -E > (Hey, everyone's got a button, right? Now, someone bring up > Prince Madoc and > the "who got there first" argument will be complete! =} ) > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 18:02:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BN2BSd021018 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:02:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BN0ucP029989; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:00:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BN0pbl009384; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:00:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f34.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BN0obl009297 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:00:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:43:26 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:43:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:43:26 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Mar 2004 22:43:26.0952 (UTC) FILETIME=[449ABE80:01C407BA] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Greenland/Colonies (was Bog Dress) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Robin Netherton >>None of this of course, alters the Robin's point that Greenland was an >>established European colony for a minimum of 425 years (985-1410) and >>probably a few years longer than that. 425 years before now was 1579. >Thanks, Marc. I didn't mean to start an argument about which settlement in >the Americas was oldest.... I wasn't really looking for one either, I was just trying to be supportive :) >...been here for a very long time and are well established"). That is: the >Greenland colonies lasted about 400 years before they failed, and they >apparently did reasonably well for most of that time, or they'd have gone >the way of Roanoake long before then. Considering how thin the margin of survival was thought to be, absolutely. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as $29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 18:21:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BNLaSd021162 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:21:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BNKocP001719; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:20:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BNKmbl023841; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:20:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f113.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.113]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BNKibl023749 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:20:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:03:20 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:03:20 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:03:20 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Mar 2004 23:03:20.0409 (UTC) FILETIME=[0BF5D490:01C407BD] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Shoemakers (was Bog dress & American colonies) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: "E House" >>They didn't happen to discuss early Spanish shoemakers did they? (just >>grasping at straws). >No, but I assume you're familiar with the fortalezas in the Cartagena/Santa > >Marta area? Only as pictures. >When I toured them (~20 years ago) they did have a good many artifacts; I > >just can't remember any details of their displays, although it has stuck >in my >mind that some pre-dated the forts themselves. Unfortunately, the >older >artifacts might have just been, ykno, old cannon-balls and the like, >but if you >haven't yet, you may want to write them for information. That's an idea. Thanks. I'm not even concerned about the artifacts really at this point - I'm just interested in finding out who some of the earliest shoemakers were in the New World, or even if that's possible. (Yeh, it's a weird hobby, but it keeps me off the streets, and out of the pool halls). >Places worth trying in Santa Marta and Cartagena are San Felipe de Barajas, > >San Fernando, and San Jose de Bocachica. The Basílical Menor (a cathedral > >begun in the 1530s, if I remember right) has certain relics and other > >historical material. I've visited each, but honestly I can't remember >what was >where, except that (sadly) one was having serious flooding >problems which >destroyed some of the artifacts. Happens here too. >Oh! And I know nothing about it, but in Cartagena there's a place called >Monumento a los Zapatos Viejos (old shoes)! Really? Interesting. >I might be able to help a bit with native shoemaking, but that's probably >no >use to you. It's interesting, perhaps later. >You know those moments when you really feel like you're connecting with > >history? Yeah, well, they're not all good. I sympathize completely. > > Isn't the village Punta Villa Rica still in existance? >Yes, but my understanding is that it wasn't continuously inhabited, as the > >original Vera Cruz inhabitants all moved--I could be wrong, though. That's all right, neither was Jamestown :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 18:41:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BNfLSd021334 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:41:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BNeVcP003383; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:40:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BNeTbl038037; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:40:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BNeNbl037929 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:40:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.15b.2fd836e6 (17228) for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:34:59 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <15b.2fd836e6.2d8251a3@aol.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:34:59 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/11/2004 1:53:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com writes: > A character wearing clothing that in > its own time might have said "beautiful young lady" or > "respectable businessman" might now say to most people > "slightly deformed woman" or "eccentric". > > This is the thing. The character and style and art direction are what determine what the costumes should be. Historical accuracy does not always work. But it's a good bet that with actual historic events and people, a good place to START is what one can find out about what really was there. Still, costumes must communicate. This is by symbolism mainly. You may put an 1840s prostitute in what one actually wore but it may not come across to the audience that way. You need something the modern person can "read". This can be a cliche like red with black lace. But that by no means says "Whore" in a purely accurate context. It's a modern cliche. [Just cut the thing correctly, OK?] You can also put her in regular clothes but somehow revealing...a little too off the shoulder...bodice a little too tight. Or you can come from it in an ironic way. The most babydoll, puritanical dress...with maybe too much makeup...and of course the actress acting like a tart. That may be what's called for. All this can be done with respect for the period. All this whore talk comes from having just watched "The French Lt.'s Woman" A well costumed show. The fiance, who is in the height of fashion, is very late 1860s...like the instant before bustle. But her maid is positively early to mid 1850s. Merrill Streep is mid 1860s. Now mind you not everyone would be fashionable, [I can easily believe Streep's stuff] but the servants fully over 10 years off? Then at the end Streep is a Pre-Raphaelite. [also believable]. Maybe not perfectly accurate but certainly well informed. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 20:37:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2C1bWSd021887 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:37:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C1aXcP011187; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:36:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C1aTbl005179; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:36:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C1aMbl005135 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:36:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.176.69]) by smail3.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 11026299 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:29:29 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1970s hairdos and future fashion Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:40:31 -0600 Message-ID: <004c01c4069c$e0259240$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <01c001c405f0$28959c80$dd748151@dan> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Stevie-- I used to love that show! But not the costumes. Take a look at most old movies, you will find the same thing--even if they get the period costumes almost correct, the hair is still from the time the movie was made. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Stevie Gamble Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:04 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] 1970s hairdos and future fashion Hi all, I spent the weekend at a SF convention which had an exhibition of costumes from a late 70's early 80's SF television show called 'Blake's Seven', as well as most of the actors. It was fascinating to note that the designers had obviously made conscientious efforts to create some sort of 'future fashion', heavily on the sexy side, but the hair styles, men and womens, were resolutely and unmistakeably 70's. The only exception was the character Servalan, played by Jacqueline Pierce, who had then, and has today, an extremely short haircut which set a fashion then, and still looks amazingly good. Actually, all the actors seem to still have the same hairstyles today, give or take a little thinning on the top... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 21:06:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2C26wSd022062 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:06:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C22lcP013009; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:02:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C22hbl020100; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:02:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C22cbm020056 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:02:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2C25iNg032282; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:05:45 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Authentic_SCA" , "H-Costume" , "Tudortalk" Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:04:52 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Inventories of Henry VIII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry for the cross post but I spotted a book on the David Brown Book Company site that may be of interest. The Inventory of King Henry VIII: Volume I, The Transcript edited by David Starkey, transcribed by Philip Ward and indexed by Alasdair Hawkyard This vast catalogue of the possessions of the Henry VIII on his death in 1547 contains c.18,000 entries; these range from the Crown jewels to bandages for the kings ulcerated leg! The Inventory provides a huge amount of information for historians on the material success of Henry and his forebears, as well as being of practical help in identifying surviving objects as the king's or otherwise. The transcript is accompanied by a historical ... Hardback. US$148.00 I got my copy back in January from Robin Netherton and I am Very happy. This is an inventory of everything that Henry VIII owned at the time of his death, from musical instruments to eye-glasses (He had several pairs because he kept taking them off and losing them :-) I realize it is still a spendy resource for most people, but ... http://www.oxbowbooks.com/browse.cfm/CatID/436/O/D/StartRow/11 Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 21:56:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2C2uFSd022341 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:56:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C2sTcP015505; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:54:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C2sPbl045308; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:54:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C2sMbm045281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:54:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2C3PoWm017269 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:25:50 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A65BF8006E; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:54:19 -0500 Received: from beaves.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.118]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:54:17 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <001701c407de$0de0ffc0$765183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <414292.1079006145883.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:59:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "You can't understand peoples behavior"...In the early '80s, I was doing a role in a play (title escapes me), of the 1950s,the character was a victim of her 'up tightness',so I made sure that my underwear included a playtex girdle and maidenform bra ("I dreamt I was...In my Maidenform bra") under the costumes. One of the co-eds was blown away with the 'ordeal' of the real underpinnings that I was using.She would show up early in the dressingroom just to chat me up about what it was like to be/ play the part of a woman from that time period. For me, the unders were crucial to getting close to the mind of the character who never had a boob or bun out of place from the idealized norm of a 'lady of that time period. This was a modern woman who had never known the 'armor women were supposed to put up with before we "burned the bra". I had difficulties in this time period when costuming students, in getting them to wear any underwear under their costumes Period! The concept that how you are put together might affect the walking, sitting, running...never mind the Mind of their stage persona was completely foreign. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Waddie" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama > Having read some of the responses to this, I find I have two approaches. > I don't have a problem with historical drama, ie fiction, being done in > all sorts of costume - modern or 20s or Victorian or futuristic/fantasy, > whatever the director thinks will suit the story being told. But if > you're doing it to, in some way, teach history, it's more important that > the costume should be right. One of the standards that I saw once for > university history courses is that they should foster a sense of "the > otherness of the past" - in other words, you can't understand people's > behaviour unless you take account of the culture and ethics and so on of > their time, and the fact that it was different from ours. In a TV > production, costume helps to do that, so you can't do it in modern > dress, and the costuming and setting has to be good enough that viewers > can feel that they are watching people from the past, and not just > modern people who are just like us really, but dressed funny. > > I hope I make some sense! > > Jean > > > Freyalyn Close-Hainsworth wrote > >Some people may already have heard of 'Gunpowder, Treason and Plot', a > >new BBC2 costume drama starting this weekend, part one on the life of > >Mary Queen of Scots and the second on the life of her son. I'm sure > >this will be shown in the US at some point soon. > >However, I read a quote from the producer and thought it worth > >reproducing here for discussion: > >"I'm very interested in this term 'costume drama' because what it does > >is put costume before drama - quite literally - and you do feel they're > >more about the bloody costumes than the drama. Actually the period > >element should be secondary to the fact that you're trying to tell an > >interesting story. The whole point about going back in history is to > >find the universal theme that has relevance today. > >"The Gunpowder Plot is the original terrorist story involving > >explosives. You've got to ask yourself what parallels Catholics trying > >to blow up Parliament has with Islamic fundamentalists trying to blow > >up the Pentagon today. And then ask yourself whether that's more > >worthwhile than the idea of most costume drama, which is characters > >dressed up like Quality Street prancing around on the screen" > >It doesn't sound to me like he's got much respect for his subject > >matter. Well, should costume drama be done to tell the stories of the > >people it represents, or is it solely valuable to comment on today's > >society? > >Discuss.... > >Freyalyn (now running for cover) > >Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save £7.50 a month > >www.freeserve.com/anytime > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- > Jean Waddie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 22:23:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2C3NYSd022455 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:23:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C3LocP017225; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:21:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C3Llbl058137; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:21:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C3Ldbl058073 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:21:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.138.38]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40DF06A81B for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:21:38 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:21:31 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] button holes Message-ID: <4050BC3B.5874.B6C3D39@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <004a01c40694$316c8ae0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Finishing costumes on the coach/train/plane is standard practice among > people I know. Of course, they're not doing the sort of beautiful and > precise work you do. But there was one occasion where three people > made sure they got seats together on the plane so they could each do a > section of the hem on one dress, to get it finished. That must have been before 9/11/01. Since then you can't have needles on the planes. (This is irksome and seems unnecessary considering some of the things they *do* allow on planes such as ball point pens and pencils. Those may be common, but they can be far more dangerous than any sewing needle.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 22:24:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2C3OsSd022458 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:24:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C3M2cP017255; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C3M2bl058296; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:22:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C3Lebl058087 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:21:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.138.38]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F88F6A881 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:21:39 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:21:31 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventories of Henry VIII Message-ID: <4050BC3B.16605.B6C3EDF@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Sorry for the cross post but I spotted a book on the David Brown Book > Company site that may be of interest. The Inventory of King Henry > VIII: Volume I, The Transcript edited by David Starkey, transcribed by > Philip Ward and indexed by Alasdair Hawkyard This vast catalogue of > the possessions of the Henry VIII on his death in 1547 contains > c.18,000 entries; these range from the Crown jewels to bandages for > the kings ulcerated leg! The Inventory provides a huge amount of > information for historians on the material success of Henry and his > forebears, as well as being of practical help in identifying surviving > objects as the king's or otherwise. The transcript is accompanied by a > historical ... Hardback. US$148.00 This is a wonderful book. I just wish that they had been able to do the second and third volumes. Janet Arnold was supposedly in charge of the costuming section for those. But it was cancelled before she had a chance to die. It would have been particularly good if it could have had her chapter. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 23:03:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2C43OSd022602 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:03:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C41lcP019659; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:01:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C41hbl076920; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:01:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C41ebm076907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:01:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C441E6020961 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:04:01 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i2C441dc020958 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:04:01 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval button closures Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:04:00 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <200403111520.AA32374830@thrednedlestrete.com> In-Reply-To: <200403111520.AA32374830@thrednedlestrete.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403112304.00834.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 11 March 2004 04:20 pm, Lisa Sinervo wrote: [snip] > I'd never considered loops before, and don't see evidence either, however, > if you make your button holes so they are at right angles to the sleeve > edge (horizontal, not vertical) and very close to the edge, (not a great > deal of fabric between the button hole end, and the sleeve edge-50mm or > less) the buttons do appear to stradle the closing line after they are > buttoned. This position is assisted by the fact that the buttons used > during the period have shanks. As well as by the fact that surviving specimens show that the buttons themselves are stitched onto the edge of the garment (and not about 1/2 inch from the edge the way we do now). -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 11 23:49:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2C4nSSd022770 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:49:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C4mpcP022153; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:48:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C4mibl097827; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:48:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C4mgbl097811 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:48:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12864 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:19:27 -0600 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:19:27 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval button closures In-Reply-To: <200403112304.00834.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > As well as by the fact that surviving specimens show that the buttons > themselves are stitched onto the edge of the garment (and not about > 1/2 inch from the edge the way we do now). Which, BTW, makes for a much smoother sleeve than putting the buttons in the modern position. The latter leaves a flap on the button side that has to tuck under the buttonhole side, but because the edge is curved, the tucked-under part is slightly larger than the surface it has to fit under, so it tends to bunch up. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 00:42:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2C5gaSd022884 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:42:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C5fbcP024353; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:41:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C5fYbl020952; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:41:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C5fVbl020933 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:41:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2C4hnZ12363 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:43:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-67.74.227.244.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.227.244] helo=HELENPINTO) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B1eWS-0006Ou-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:43:48 -0800 Message-ID: <00a001c407ec$95bbb6c0$f4e34a43@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004a01c40694$316c8ae0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4050BC3B.5874.B6C3D39@localhost> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:43:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef8f8ccfa66d536d73e7ce761f239a851e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Was Buttonholes, now What is banned on airplanes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kat wrote: That must have been before 9/11/01. Since then you can't have needles > on the planes. If you go to the TSA website page at the URL below, it will give you a PDF list of banned items. Knitting needles and crochet hooks are permitted; sewing needles aren't even mentioned. Small blunt scissors are also permitted. Hope this helps, -Helen/Aidan http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?theme=177 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 00:49:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2C5n4Sd022911 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:49:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C5mScP024749; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:48:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C5mSbl023847; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:48:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C5mQbl023795 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:48:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Appin1@aol.com) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.3c.3c2bd9cc (3932) for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:43:06 -0500 (EST) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: <3c.3c2bd9cc.2d82a7ea@aol.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:43:06 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6802 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ron, I'm still here. When I saw Rob Roy, I ran an award-winning living history group that specialized in 18th century Scots Highlanders. Needless to say, that when we as a costumed group went to see the movie, we nitpicked the heck out of it. I posted a long critique of the costumes to this list. Interestingly enough, the English and lowland clothing was very good, and Argyll's costumes were very well done. The costumes only distracted from the film because we knew a lot about the time period. I'm sure that they didn't for 99% of the viewers. Kathleen Norvell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 00:58:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2C5wNSd022932 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:58:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C5vbcP025282; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:57:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C5vYbl027392; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:57:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C5vVbl027340 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:57:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Appin1@aol.com) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.8d.58fc58f (3932) for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:52:11 -0500 (EST) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: <8d.58fc58f.2d82aa0b@aol.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:52:11 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6802 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I understand that the actresses in "Mona Lisa Smile" had some difficulty getting used to early 1950s undergarments. I heard an interview with one of them (Kirsten Dunst, I believe) who was surprised that proper ladies wore girdles all the time. While geeting used to wearing girdles and merry widows is nothing like getting used to wearing stays and panniers, I was amused by the concept. At least the movie costumers were trying to get it right. Kathleen Norvell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 02:14:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2C7EMSd029865 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 02:14:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C7DWcP028914; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:13:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C7DTbl056850; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:13:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C7DObl056795 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:13:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from 39jz301 ([67.60.147.253]) by fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040311215105.YYHK3598.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:51:05 -0500 Message-ID: <006a01c407b3$0c3be9d0$fd933c43@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003d01c40784$49b20ee0$cb6afea9@sherry> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Supplies! Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:51:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [67.60.147.253] using ID at Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:51:05 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > Is there anyone on this list in the Toronto area? I will be running out of > buckram very soon and need to find out where I can go (or send someone) to > get a fresh supply. I moved from western Canada this past summer, and I am > still trying to find suppliers to keep me in 'stuff' for my evil, fun, > sewing addiction. :-) Anything North of Toronto would be helpful too, as > I'm living in Sudbury. Mail order would be fine as well. I'm in Toronto. I'm guessing MacDonald Faber would be your best bet. Here's their web page (looks like a work in progress, but does tell how you can get hold of them....) http://www.macdonaldfaber.com/ . I have purchased buckram from them in the past, although it's been a few years, so even though it's not on their list of products, I think you'll still be able to get it. I also see Designer Fabric Outlet (aka the Orange Bag Store) now has a web page. They're worth checking if MacFabe doesn't carry something, although their focus is on fabric and trim: http://www.designerfabrics.to/aboutus.html . > I'm also looking for Wool batt for felt making. Ask MacFabe about this. If they don't have it, I know a couple of Toronto wool stores that might carry it. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 02:44:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2C7iuSd015108 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 02:44:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C7iIcP029951; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:44:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C7iGbl069591; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:44:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from obsidian.spiritone.com (obsidian.spiritone.com [216.99.193.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C7iCbm069570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:44:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by obsidian.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2C7nnkd002217 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:49:50 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Was Buttonholes, now What is banned on airplanes Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:46:27 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <00a001c407ec$95bbb6c0$f4e34a43@HELENPINTO> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kat, I flew to Germany and Pennsic last summer and was sewing both trips. No problem with a package of needles, or the little children's round nosed scissors I took along. I flew to Reno and back last week (which is why I have this wretched cold now) with my little sewing kit consisting of needles, thread, scissors (1" long, round tips) and had no problems. Regina Romsey > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Helen Pinto > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:43 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] Was Buttonholes, now What is banned on airplanes > > > Kat wrote: > That must have been before 9/11/01. Since then you can't have needles > > on the planes. > > If you go to the TSA website page at the URL below, it will give you a PDF > list of banned items. Knitting needles and crochet hooks are permitted; > sewing needles aren't even mentioned. Small blunt scissors are also > permitted. > Hope this helps, > -Helen/Aidan > > http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?theme=177 > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 05:55:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CAtxSd018626 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 05:55:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CAtGcP007606; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 03:55:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CAtCbl044850; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 03:55:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mwinf0801.wanadoo.fr (smtp8.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CAtAbl044823 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 03:55:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from liara@wanadoo.fr) Received: from mathilde (AMontsouris-103-1-3-127.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.53.129.127]) by mwinf0801.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id ECFEB180004D for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:37:35 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <00f701c4081e$3b7e23a0$7f813551@mathilde> From: "Mathilde" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040310194316.29606.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late French medieval outfit... seeking advice Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:39:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Catalina and Cynthia for your kind answers, these are what I was looking for ! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catalina Saravia Quicedo" > The clothing pictured on Anne de Brtagne, or Anne of > Britanny are what is considered transition style. This > is slightly before the style of French hood well known > to be worn by Ann Boleyn. > http://www.ac-grenoble.fr/argouges/PEDAGOGI/Costume/Transition.htm > > This appears to be a soft hood of velvet or black > damask similar in shape to the later rigid hood. I am > no expert in this area. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" > I'd vote for it being symbolic only, because engineering such a thing > would require it fitting over the structure of the hood in weird ways > from a 3-d perspective. > > http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/greatwomen/10340_06.jpg > > Looks like an elaboration based on the first link you gave us -- the > detailing on the hood lappets is very similar. I wouldn't trust it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 06:04:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CB4eSd018712 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 06:04:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CB2vcP007870; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 04:02:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CB2vbl047728; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 04:02:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CB2rbm047707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 04:02:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2CB2XPV032339 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 06:02:33 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 06:02:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <405198DA.8030605@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 06:02:50 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama References: <8d.58fc58f.2d82aa0b@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8d.58fc58f.2d82aa0b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Appin1@aol.com wrote: > I understand that the actresses in "Mona Lisa Smile" had some difficulty > getting used to early 1950s undergarments. I heard an interview with one of them > (Kirsten Dunst, I believe) who was surprised that proper ladies wore girdles > all the time. While geeting used to wearing girdles and merry widows is nothing > like getting used to wearing stays and panniers, I was amused by the concept. > At least the movie costumers were trying to get it right. Which is, apparently, more than the rest of the film could manage. I'm an 80s Wellesley graduate and it's been very interesting to read point-by-point refutations of the things the movie said were widespread for the 50s. I wore a girdle once, for my high school graduation. I'd much rather wear my badly-fitted corset, and I understand a well-fitted one isn't any problem. What we'll do to our bodies.... -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent From LoTR, the movie EE: Legolas: Lembas! One bite will fill a man's stomach! Pippin, to Merry: How many did *you* eat? Merry, whimpering: ... four... (belch) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 07:10:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CCAgSd019404 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:10:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CC93cP010101; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 05:09:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CC8pbl073718; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 05:08:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CC8gbm073670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 05:08:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CCB4E6022685 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:11:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i2CCB3Cg022683 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:11:03 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval button closures Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:11:03 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403120711.03700.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 12 March 2004 01:19 am, Robin Netherton wrote: > On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > As well as by the fact that surviving specimens show that the buttons > > themselves are stitched onto the edge of the garment (and not about > > 1/2 inch from the edge the way we do now). > > Which, BTW, makes for a much smoother sleeve than putting the buttons in > the modern position. The latter leaves a flap on the button side that has > to tuck under the buttonhole side, but because the edge is curved, the > tucked-under part is slightly larger than the surface it has to fit under, > so it tends to bunch up. I've yet to try making a buttoned sleeve using the period technique, but I'll take your word for it. Maybe the bunching problem is why we don't see a lot of sleeves that button most of the way up the arm today, except on some bridal wear. Does anyone know if bridal wear uses the period method, or does bridal couture deal with this problem some other way? -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 09:23:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CENESd020776 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:23:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CELBcP015734; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:21:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CEL4bl028226; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:21:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CEL2bl028198 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:21:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15010 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:51:47 -0600 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:51:47 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval button closures In-Reply-To: <200403120711.03700.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 12 Mar 2004, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > Maybe the bunching problem is why we don't see a lot of sleeves that > button most of the way up the arm today, except on some bridal wear. > Does anyone know if bridal wear uses the period method, or does bridal > couture deal with this problem some other way? Bridal sleeves (and bodice backs) often button using a row of elastic loops that's sold for that purpose. (Bridal fabric departments also sell little cloth satin buttons to go with these.) You can buy the loops in the standard white and ivory and often in black (for evening gowns), and I've seen them in other colors as well. I've found them very annoying to work with; they seem to assume there's no tension or stress in the garment. And in fact, if there is stress (as in a bodice, there are likely to be hooks and eyes in crucial spots, with the buttons/loops merely holding the edges together in a line. Often sleeves fastened this way will gap slightly, but showing a little skin along the closure on the arm can be considered a design feature, just as showing skin through lace would be. IME, bridal sleeves often button just along a forearm, on a straight line, and are not shaped like a medieval sleeve that follows the curve of the forearm and buttons up past the elbow. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 10:22:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CFMLSd021521 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:22:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CFLfcP019441; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:21:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CFLVbl060325; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:21:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CFLUbl060304 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:21:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2CF1QE13299 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:01:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from 209-165-56-067.jps.net ([209.165.56.67] helo=pavilion) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B1o9v-0003vX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:01:12 -0800 Message-ID: <000801c40844$7e470b40$4338a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: bridal buttons was Re: [h-cost] medieval button closures Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:12:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin wrote: > > Bridal sleeves (and bodice backs) often button using a row of elastic > loops that's sold for that purpose. (Bridal fabric departments also sell > little cloth satin buttons to go with these.) You can buy the loops in the > standard white and ivory and often in black (for evening gowns), and I've > seen them in other colors as well. I've found them very annoying to work > with; they seem to assume there's no tension or stress in the garment. And > in fact, if there is stress (as in a bodice, there are likely to be hooks > and eyes in crucial spots, with the buttons/loops merely holding the edges > together in a line. > Some businesses offer button making services, where you send them a piece of fabric and they make up the buttons for you so they match your gown. Not a bad idea for some period gowns, although of course, not handmade . The hardware is a bit sturdier than the button making kits one can get at a standard fabric store. Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 11:32:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CGWBSd022647 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:32:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CGVOcP024945; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:31:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CGVLbl007529; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:31:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail4.mdx.safepages.com (mail4.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CGVGbl007485 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:31:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D05326A8A for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:31:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail4.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail4.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 44989-09 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:31:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 9686926ADE; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:31:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust72.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.72]) by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 49A8426ADE for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:31:14 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <0c6401c4084f$9a68bb10$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Shoemakers (was Bog dress & American colonies) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:32:24 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Carlson" > That's an idea. Thanks. > I'm not even concerned about the artifacts really at this point - I'm just > interested in finding out who some of the earliest shoemakers were in the > New World, or even if that's possible. (Yeh, it's a weird hobby, but it > keeps me off the streets, and out of the pool halls). Those forts and the cathedral would definitely be the best starting point in South America, then. Cartagena, though younger, grew more rapidly than Santa Marta; within a few years of establishment it would unquestionably have been large enough to require a shoemaker (but probably a cobbler first? Perhaps associated with the army). Considering the culture, the two places most likely to keep that sort of records are the military and the church, and I'd be surprised if they couldn't at least refer you to a good resource--perhaps the 17th C monastery in Cartagena, which may have preserved earlier records (hopefully, as the cathedral was damaged in the mid 18thC by a flood). By the way, my memory deceived me earlier about the date the cathedral in Santa Marta was built; it was actually built in 1529, but was not given the title of cathedral till 1533. Darn it, now I'm all interested in researching the first European women (of whatever social standing) to appear in South America. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 11:57:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CGv4Sd023016 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:57:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CGuMcP027382; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:56:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CGuIlJ025270; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:56:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14009.mail.yahoo.com (web14009.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2CGuElJ025232 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:56:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040312165610.7016.qmail@web14009.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14009.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:56:09 GMT Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:56:09 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] moderated costuming site. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://slumberland.org/moodle/course/view.php?id=5 Alternative to AIPON ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 11:59:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CGxSSd023033 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:59:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CGwgcP027648; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:58:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CGwflJ027080; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:58:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from netkauai-1.dns-netkauai.com (circlesoflight.com [66.206.11.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CGwZlK027030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:58:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisa@darklord.com) Received: from adsl-69-104-141-240.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net ([69.104.141.240] helo=darklord.com) by netkauai-1.dns-netkauai.com with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1B1pzW-0008Jq-9h for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 06:58:12 -1000 Message-ID: <4051EC3D.2010103@darklord.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:58:37 -0800 From: Lisa VandenBerghe User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - netkauai-1.dns-netkauai.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - darklord.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: medieval button closures X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >Robin Netherton wrote: > > >Which, BTW, makes for a much smoother sleeve than putting the buttons in >the modern position. The latter leaves a flap on the button side that has to tuck under the buttonhole side, but because the edge is curved, the tucked-under part is slightly larger than the surface it has to fit under, so it tends to bunch up. > > >>Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > >Maybe the bunching problem is why we don't see a lot of sleeves that button most of the way up the arm today, except on some bridal wear. Does anyone know if bridal wear uses the period method, or does bridal couture deal with this problem some other way? > My 14th c. sleeves are cut on the bias so the fabric has give at the elbows. I put the buttons on the very edge and take the button hole to within 1/8-3/16 inch from the edge, running them from wrist to abt 4" above the elbow. Even though the fabric is cut in a curve to go around the elbow (2 piece sleeve, buttons are on back of arm), they still form-fit the arm very tight and smooth, and have full bending capability. At some point I documented the use of a cord placed inside the fold of the seam allowance along the sleeve openings to strengthen the edge. Can't remember my source. Modern standards for dressmaking are different. My experience in bridal was that button loop tape was used. -Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 12:02:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CH2aSd023096 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:02:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CH1tcP028036; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:01:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CH1olJ029440; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:01:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14004.mail.yahoo.com (web14004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2CH1mlJ029416 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:01:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040312170148.31220.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:01:48 GMT Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:01:48 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] New To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://slumberland.org/moodle/course/view.php?id=5 This is supposed to be a snark free site similar to AIPON. I apoligize if anyone got this twice. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 12:19:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CHJwSd023387 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:19:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CHJBcP029859; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:19:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CHJ8lJ042171; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:19:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CHJ6lJ042079 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:19:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4E3142615 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:33:23 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4051F2E6.6060907@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:27:02 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval button closures References: <200403120711.03700.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200403120711.03700.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > Maybe the bunching problem is why we don't see a lot of sleeves that button > most of the way up the arm today, except on some bridal wear. Does anyone > know if bridal wear uses the period method, or does bridal couture deal with > this problem some other way? The buttons on the back and sleeves of my dress were fakes. The back had a zipper under the button panel and the sleeves were just loose enough to slide over the hands, there was no opening at all. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 12:20:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CHKaSd023392 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:20:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CHJscP029939; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:19:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CHJrlJ042743; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:19:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CHJnlK042690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:19:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2CHJRPV002047 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:19:27 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:19:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4051F133.7070103@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:19:47 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: medieval button closures References: <4051EC3D.2010103@darklord.com> In-Reply-To: <4051EC3D.2010103@darklord.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa VandenBerghe wrote: >At some point I documented the use of a cord placed inside > the fold of the seam allowance along the sleeve openings to strengthen > the edge. Can't remember my source. That's a great idea for those of us who don't want to weave it into tablet woven edging like in the MoL book! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent From LoTR, the movie EE: Legolas: Lembas! One bite will fill a man's stomach! Pippin, to Merry: How many did *you* eat? Merry, whimpering: ... four... (belch) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 13:01:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CI1HSd024068 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:01:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CI0QcP004029; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:00:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CI0KlJ072234; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:00:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CI0ElM072114 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:00:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from someone@eskimo.com) Received: from bently (c-67-161-103-121.client.comcast.net[67.161.103.121]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20040312174000016001m4fre>; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:40:00 +0000 Message-ID: <004f01c40859$3ed3dc80$2a02a8c0@Belkin> From: "Pam and David" To: "Historical Costume" References: <012601c407aa$b9f9b100$d1fa8051@dan> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:41:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] LA museums -- a question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear List, I just found out that I will be going to LA the week of March 22, to accompany my husband to a conference that will keep him busy all the days without me. What costume-related museum exhibits would you recommend I hit? Pam Dotson Everett, WA USA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 13:41:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CIfESd025075 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:41:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CIeUcP007784; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:40:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CIePlJ002154; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:40:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CIeNlJ002058 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:40:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 809291 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:40:17 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:40:16 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] LA museums -- a question From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004f01c40859$3ed3dc80$2a02a8c0@Belkin> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was in L.A. Feb 20-22. At the time the Los Angeles County Museum of Art had an Erte display - not just Erte but many costumes by others in the 1920s, many from costumes from Ballet Russe. Lots of Erte drawings of costumes, some with the costume next to them. Really a spectacular display - about 4 rooms full. Unfortunately, there was no book, no poster, not even a post card available from the show. And my friend with her wizard sensitive digital camera was able to take pictures because we were on a special tour, but by the time we got back to the SF Bay area, something has zapped the camera and every picture she took had disappeared. There was also a wonderful display (free) of costumes from movies up for Oscars at the Fashion Institute of Design and Marketing (about a mile from the fabric district). It's a tradition, but it was the first time I was able to be in LA at the right time. I don't know if the display is still up; they may have taken it off once the Oscars were awarded. FIDM has a great store attached to it. There's designer fabrics, buttons, clothing overruns sold for as low as $2 for a top. (None of the clothes fit me but they're the presents I bring home for my 17 and 12 year old daughters.) I hope both these exhibits are still available. You can check because both FIDM and LACMA have websites. Have a great trip! LynnD On 3/12/04 9:41 AM, "Pam and David" wrote: > Dear List, > > I just found out that I will be going to LA the week of March 22, to > accompany my husband to a conference that will keep him busy all the days > without me. What costume-related museum exhibits would you recommend I hit? > > Pam Dotson > Everett, WA USA > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 13:51:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CIp8Sd025211 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:51:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CInEcf008491; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:50:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CIfAlJ002616; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:41:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from equinox.shaysnet.com (equinox.shaysnet.com [12.178.72.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CIf2lJ002505 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:41:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ceu@equinox.shaysnet.com) Received: (from ceu@localhost) by equinox.shaysnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id i2CIlEjD024929; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:47:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:46:33 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Ussailis To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <004f01c40859$3ed3dc80$2a02a8c0@Belkin> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fabric supplier question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know, a bit off topic, but has anyone here ever ordered anything from a1 fabric? (www.a1fabric.com) Their prices look too good to be true for some things and I would hate to order something only to discover that I could get better quality at Joann's... Thanks! Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 14:15:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CJFMSd025917 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:15:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CJEWcP011010; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:14:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CJEQlJ026670; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:14:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav8.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.112]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CJEKlJ026568 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:14:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:56:53 -0800 Received: from 24.58.109.191 by bay1-dav8.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:56:53 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.109.191] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8d.58fc58f.2d82aa0b@aol.com> <405198DA.8030605@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:56:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2004 18:56:53.0757 (UTC) FILETIME=[C8D78AD0:01C40863] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Now see I like a girdle. And wear it with a corset on occasion. A good girdle is like a good corset. It must fit right to feel right. I've made more than I care to tell as well. And if you have a correctly fitting one with enough give you should have no problems and no jiggly parts. B~ ============================= Now open! http://kristalori.com ============================= ----- Original Message ----- > > I wore a girdle once, for my high school graduation. I'd much rather > wear my badly-fitted corset, and I understand a well-fitted one isn't > any problem. What we'll do to our bodies.... > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 14:50:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CJoeSd026637 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:50:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CJnxcP014474; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:49:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CJnvlJ051231; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:49:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CJnqlJ051195 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:49:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2CJV7e18452 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:31:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0460.dialsprint.net ([63.186.145.206]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B1sN5-0005KO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:31:04 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:31:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <007201c40784$5abba160$0201a8c0@kimathlon> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > And compare it with Shakespeare's plays, which can be set (and costumed) > in any time or place and still work. Have to emerge from Lurkers' Wood: Having directed a number of Shakespeare's plays, seen a LOT of productions, and taught the texts at the college level, I have to qualify the above statement. Shakespeare's plays HAVE BEEN set and costumed at just about every conceivable period and place, including outer space. Some few of these choices do in fact work, because they illuminate the text by inviting the audience to see the story in a context that legitimately resembles the original in terms of values, relationships, and hot-button issues. (recent example on film: the Ian McKellen Richard III) Even more effective in this category are the stories based on Shakespeare but set elsewhere, such as West Side Story, where the Shakespearean allusion illuminates the period of the new piece rather than the other way around. I have seen a few Shakespeare productions done in what Peter Brook suggested was really universal and timeless for modern audiences--i.e., plain skirts, shirts, trousers, etc, stuff so familiar to us that we don't notice it at all. This is the "generic costume" approach, and it works well with sets that are also more or less abstract. In those productions the characters and texts and themes get pretty much all the attention. But I have seen a LOT of transplanted Shakespeare that is really disconcerting. (Most recently on film: bicycles in the Midsummer forest? for any particular reason???? ditto the satyrs....) Sometimes the discord between costumes and language is hopelessly distracting. Sometimes it's the discord between the culture inherent in the play and the culture communicated by the clothing and set. Sometimes the distraction takes the form of a non-stop mental commentary analyzing and evaluating the equations being suggested.) In my own productions I have become a convert to the "period approximation" approach to costuming. I try to give my costumes (yes, I direct and do the costumes, both) an Elizabethan line; I try for colors and fabrics that do not LOOK INappropriate to the period (costuming with an eye to ensemble and another eye to budget means some compromises here). I don't reach for scrupulous authenticity or precision as to historical moment partly because that's simply not possible in the circumstances under which I have to work, but primarily because I don't really want to draw the audience's attention to a particular costume feature, or mislead as to a character's intended identity--to quote Angela's message of yesterday, >"Costume (on screen or in real life) is a way of communicating something >about the person's character to the viewer. And associations change, as the >fashions we are used to seeing change. A character wearing clothing that in >its own time might have said 'beautiful young lady' or 'respectable >businessman' might now say to most people 'slightly deformed woman' or >'eccentric'." In other words, I try for costuming and setting that will complement, enable, and enhance the text, the themes, and the characters but that will not draw attention to itself. I want the audience to experience the play as an integrated whole. My consort has observed that in his own experience, out-of-period Shakespeare is LESS timeless, not more so, because it draws attention to the new period in so many ways that are not germane to the play itself and that sometimes make the text seem old-fashioned, strange, or quaint. On the other hand, Shakespeare in late-Tudor/Elizabethan/Jacobean garb is, he says, TRULY timeless because we are invited into a world that is fully itself and we can lose ourselves in it. Leaving the theater is the time to say "Oh, my, you know, in some ways I can almost see Ronald Reagan in Lear...." Well. What this boils down to is: the purist (or quasi-purist) in me says NO, Shakespeare cannot be moved to just any time or place and still work. And costume IS important for any drama. Would the director whose show prompted this thread feel just as comfortable doing a tv version of "Hair" but letting his actors wear clothing from the '40s? Or "Angels in America" in colonial garb? If not, then he really DOES think costume accuracy counts, and he ought to do the work it entails. Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer and founder (as of last week) of the imaginary corporation Rant-of-the-Day Inc. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 15:18:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CKIASd027011 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:18:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CKHPcP016564; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:17:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CKHNlJ070142; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:17:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CKHIlJ070021 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:17:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-134-64.client.comcast.net[24.1.134.64]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004031220120201100gi26ve>; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:12:02 +0000 Message-ID: <012201c4086e$45761d90$40860118@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8d.58fc58f.2d82aa0b@aol.com> <405198DA.8030605@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:08:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I second that. No jiggly parts. Grandma raised me in a very rural south Texas town where girdles were still in use through the late 70's even if I wore hip huggers. It was her way of making sure I wore a shirt with them ... loved Grandma, God rest her soul, sigh. Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama : Now see I like a girdle. And wear it with a corset on occasion. A good : girdle is like a good corset. It must fit right to feel right. I've made : more than I care to tell as well. And if you have a correctly fitting one : with enough give you should have no problems and no jiggly parts. : : B~ : ============================= : Now open! : http://kristalori.com : ============================= : ----- Original Message ----- : > : > I wore a girdle once, for my high school graduation. I'd much rather : > wear my badly-fitted corset, and I understand a well-fitted one isn't : > any problem. What we'll do to our bodies.... : > : > -- : > Cynthia Virtue and/or : > Cynthia du Pré Argent : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 15:24:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CKOjSd027086 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:24:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CKO0cP016979; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CKNxlJ074672; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:23:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CKNrlJ074628 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:23:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.176.69]) by smail2.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 10695803 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:14:23 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:24:18 -0600 Message-ID: <00a201c4086f$ff3daa80$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <012201c4086e$45761d90$40860118@ches> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] obscure French fabric X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a long shot, but maybe someone on this list can help me. Was/is there a French firm making cotton prints named SOTEXI? I've got a piece of cotton commemorative cloth from the Ivory Coast. It features Pope John Paul II and a map (he visited Africa in 1980). The paper sticker on one end says SOTEXI, and I'd like to establish where it was printed. Told you it was obscure! Thanks. Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 17:21:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CMLnSd028113 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:21:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CML4cP001488; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:21:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CMKslJ060345; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:20:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CMKplJ060239 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:20:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PallasAMK@aol.com) Received: from PallasAMK@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.75.24390fc2 (4340) for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:15:33 -0500 (EST) From: PallasAMK@aol.com Message-ID: <75.24390fc2.2d839084@aol.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:15:32 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6800 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:LA museums -- a question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Both the Erte exhibit at LACMA and the Movie costume exhibit are still up > and will be until the first week of April. I second Lynne's opinion of the Erte--it was great! Primarily costumes that belonged to Ganna Wolska, the opera singer of questionable ability, but some street and evening clothing by Erte's 1920's contemporaries, like Barbier, Lanvin, and a whole line of gorgeous, perfect Fortuny gowns. But, alas, not even a postcard, as Lynne noted. The FIDM exhibit is also really good this year--the LOTR costumes alone are worth the visit--just exquisite. Even the armor, and I am sooooo not interested in armor. (Interesting factoid from the acccompanying information sheet [which may or may not still be available]: all the chain mail is made from PVC--you'd never know it!) Lots to see in the main gallery, and then the third floor gallery features old Hollywhood designers and their creations, like Adrian, Edith Head, Orry Kelly, etc. And since FIDM is only a stone's throw from the garment district, you can be inspired and then go shopping! Both exhibitions have teasers online: Go to www.lacma.org and www.fidm.org Pallas http://www.lahacal.org/rendance/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 18:23:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CNNfSd028779 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:23:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CNMxcP010860; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:22:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CNMulJ004475; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:22:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CNMolJ004405 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:22:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 810374 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:22:45 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:22:45 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:LA museums -- a question From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <75.24390fc2.2d839084@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, Pallas, for being more eloquent than I was earlier, especially about Ms Wolska and her costumes. They showed how Russian style When going up to the third floor exhibit windows (it's fun to see the 1940s version of earlier eras), be certain to check in with Security in the Lobby. Some days they're welcoming and some days they look at you as if you're carrying bombs. Something neither Pallas nor I mentioned is that there is a tiny theater in the far corner of the FIDM exhibit where you can sit and watch trailers of the movies in the exhibit. It's nice to see the clothing you just looked at in movement. The costumes run from the fantasy of LOTR, Extraordinary Gentlemen and XMen2 through Civil War, Japanese, futuristic, smack into the 1950s (my guilty pleasure) of Mona Lisa Smile and surprisingly, a few other movies. It's really exciting to see the detail of the costumes when you're face to face with them. Didn't see the movie, but they've got one little room set up for "The Haunted Mansion." Be certain to look at the costumes with the special flashlights; they've used some special paint on the clothing that glows eerily when the light hits them right and you're looking at them at the right angle. (The security guard will show you.) For the LOTR bit, the armor is indeed marvelous; there's so much detail you can't see when in movement. I didn't realize that Arwen's dress is green, not white, but there it was. There's also an orc crouching to one side. I KNOW it was a mannequin, I KNOW that. Yet, I couldn't stand near it -- it looked that alive. The armor for "The Last Samuri" is also on display and it looks like the real pieces I've been lucky enough to view. Enjoy the exhibits - and plan to spend the day doing only these two exhibits (and don't forget the FIDM store - great, great deals in there and the money goes to the FIDM Scholarship Fund). LynnD Wishing I could go back again this weekend On 3/12/04 2:15 PM, "PallasAMK@aol.com" wrote: > > >> Both the Erte exhibit at LACMA and the Movie costume exhibit are still up >> and will be until the first week of April. > > > I second Lynne's opinion of the Erte--it was great! Primarily costumes that > belonged to Ganna Wolska, the opera singer of questionable ability, but some > street and evening clothing by Erte's 1920's contemporaries, like Barbier, > Lanvin, and a whole line of gorgeous, perfect Fortuny gowns. But, alas, not > even > a postcard, as Lynne noted. > > The FIDM exhibit is also really good this year--the LOTR costumes alone are > worth the visit--just exquisite. Even the armor, and I am sooooo not > interested in armor. (Interesting factoid from the acccompanying information > sheet > [which may or may not still be available]: all the chain mail is made from > PVC--you'd never know it!) Lots to see in the main gallery, and then the > third > floor gallery features old Hollywhood designers and their creations, like > Adrian, > Edith Head, Orry Kelly, etc. And since FIDM is only a stone's throw from the > garment district, you can be inspired and then go shopping! > > Both exhibitions have teasers online: Go to www.lacma.org and www.fidm.org > > Pallas > > > > > http://www.lahacal.org/rendance/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 18:34:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CNY9Sd028974 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:34:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CNXXcP011888; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:33:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CNXVlJ010894; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:33:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CNXQlJ010784 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:33:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.160.2cc3b0b5 (3996) for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:33:19 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <160.2cc3b0b5.2d83a2be@aol.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:33:18 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/12/2004 2:50:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, ruthanneb@mindspring.com writes: > Would the director whose show > prompted this thread feel just as comfortable doing a tv version of "Hair" > but letting his actors wear clothing from the '40s? This isn't a fair analogy. "Hair" is a very specific "happening". The very structure is not malleable to many other periods. But maybe in another 200 years...who knows what they'll be able to do with it. I also have a problem with an Elizabethan "Julius Caesar", or "Richard III." An Elizabethan "Henry V" or "Titus Andronicus". But Julie Tamore's "Titus" works because it meshes two ITALIAN things: Ancient Rome and Mussolini....both times of political cruelty. Kenneth Branagh's 4 hour "Hamlet" works in it's turn of the century period because of the political intrigue we associate with that period in Europe and in the play. The Fascists is the film "Richard III" mirror pretty well the workings of politics in that episode of the War of the Roses. And none of these plays were from the start concerned with period accuracy even in the plots. But doing it Elizabethan I wouldn't think is always the way to go. Of course Shakespeare is not the only playwright to "suffer" this. I once saw a Moliere "The Learned Ladies" done 1830s. [It was perfect actually] The key is to find a period that fits what's already been written and not one you have to force. Peter Sellars [the director, not comic actor] did two Mozart operas in modern dress "Le Nozzi di Figaro" and "Don Gionvanni'. They suck because even though he was clever with making the characters fit [too clever if you ask me] the time period doesn't fit the works....which he woefully misunderstood. That film of "Midsummer" doesn't work because...like...well...why is it moved to Italy? How does that help? [I costumed an 1890s Midsummer...and it can work mainly because of the sensuality vs. proper behavior...the nature vs. civilization issues in the play] If you can find another time when the length of men's hair and youth vs. the establishment are big issues, you could do "Hair" in that period. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 20:00:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2D10ESd030743 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:00:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D0xQcP017166; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:59:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D0xMlJ056332; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:59:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D0xJlK056303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:59:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D11gE6024519 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:01:42 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i2D11gHX024517 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:01:42 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval button closures Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:01:42 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <200403120711.03700.cathy@thyrsus.com> <4051F2E6.6060907@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <4051F2E6.6060907@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403122001.42542.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 12 March 2004 12:27 pm, Dawn wrote: > Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > Maybe the bunching problem is why we don't see a lot of sleeves that > > button most of the way up the arm today, except on some bridal wear. > > Does anyone know if bridal wear uses the period method, or does bridal > > couture deal with this problem some other way? > > The buttons on the back and sleeves of my dress were fakes. The back had > a zipper under the button panel and the sleeves were just loose enough > to slide over the hands, there was no opening at all. That would be one way to eliminate the bunching issue. :-) Thanks for the info. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 22:20:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2D3KaSd000737 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:20:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D39qcP023466; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:09:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D39olJ012759; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:09:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2D39mlJ012752 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:09:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sarah@modehistorique.com) Received: from unknown (HELO modehistorique.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@69.105.196.156 with plain) by smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2004 03:09:48 -0000 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:09:33 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] This American Life, was: New BBC Costume Drama Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Sarah Lorraine To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <40527697.4000704@dandy.net> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I love This American Life! Great program! If people are interested, they won't find it on NPR's website, however. TAL is a Public Radio International production. Anyway, I found the link to the audio program you're talking about on http://www.thisamericanlife.org http://207.70.82.73/pages/descriptions/96/38.html If that fails to bring it up, do a search under "reenactor" and it will come up. Obligatory Costume Content: I listen to TAL while sewing. I just download one program after another until I'm exhausted from sewing. Fresh Air with Terry Gross (http://freshair.npr.org) is another favorite of mine. ;) Sarah, Public Radio Geek http://www.modehsitorique.com On Friday, March 12, 2004, at 06:48 PM, michael tartaglio wrote: > Hi. All. On this and similar subjects, we here in the US and others on > the Internet who listen to National Public Radio might have heard last > weeks "This American Life" by Ira Glass. His subject matter was > reality and the different ways we (Americans) perceive it, and how > people alter it to fit their views. The beginning piece is by another > radio journalist who interviewed Civil War (US) reenactors about > "authenticity" (The word "farb" was mentioned) The other pieces were > on, among other subjects, how our view of dinosaurs and their "way of > life" has changed and how it mirrors our world view, and how a > University of Chicago Medieval History professor viewed going to > "Medieval Times", a themed dinner show/tournament at an ersatz > "castle". In the piece on the dinosaurs, I can draw a parallel to what > Cindy is talking about regarding how "history" has been viewed through > the eye of film. I believe that you can listen to the program by going > to National Public Radio on the web, locating "This American Life" > and looking for the program entitled "Simulated Worlds" BTW, > apparently he doesn't realize that Europeans do reenacting too (he > asks" what if English and French people reenacted the Norman > Conquest?"). Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 22:32:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2D3WUSd000843 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:32:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D2nDcP022391; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:49:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D2n5lJ003845; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:49:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D2n3lK003817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:49:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net (acty2171.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.243.171]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2D2n0AI011318 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:49:01 -0500 Message-ID: <40527697.4000704@dandy.net> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:48:55 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. All. On this and similar subjects, we here in the US and others on the Internet who listen to National Public Radio might have heard last weeks "This American Life" by Ira Glass. His subject matter was reality and the different ways we (Americans) perceive it, and how people alter it to fit their views. The beginning piece is by another radio journalist who interviewed Civil War (US) reenactors about "authenticity" (The word "farb" was mentioned) The other pieces were on, among other subjects, how our view of dinosaurs and their "way of life" has changed and how it mirrors our world view, and how a University of Chicago Medieval History professor viewed going to "Medieval Times", a themed dinner show/tournament at an ersatz "castle". In the piece on the dinosaurs, I can draw a parallel to what Cindy is talking about regarding how "history" has been viewed through the eye of film. I believe that you can listen to the program by going to National Public Radio on the web, locating "This American Life" and looking for the program entitled "Simulated Worlds" BTW, apparently he doesn't realize that Europeans do reenacting too (he asks" what if English and French people reenacted the Norman Conquest?"). Mike T. Cindy Abel wrote: >Read "Hollywood and History" an excellent book of how the movies have shown >the current(at the time of making of the film)fashionable aesthetic to some >degree since the dawn of the motion picture. Edward Maeder is the author. He >traces many films from designer's concept to finished product. Budget, time, >concern with star actors vanity(or lack thereof, in a few cases), studio >heads' concern, and even the Hays Code have all played a part in influencing >historic film costuming. Fascinating reading > >For movies showing on TCM and AMC, especially, spotting all the >anachronistics in costuming, makeup, and hairstyles is the fun!! > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 22:32:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2D3WtSd000849 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:32:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D3M8cP024190; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:22:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D3M6lJ018218; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:22:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D3M2lJ018142 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:22:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE7712D300A4; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:22:31 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE5E21D017C; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:22:06 -0600 Message-ID: <012201c408aa$43acff10$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:21:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2D3WtSd000849 Status: RO I am working on some fashion reports from 1838. The articles refer to half-dress descriptions. This also means demi-toilette... something to lounge around the house in the early morning or late evening. Sometimes, when I put online in my table of contents, I use a title describing the contents of the article that people in the 21st Century can understand. I really don't want to use the titles of Half Dress or Demi-Toilette since I had to look them up in the dictionary for a definition. So what all do you think would be a good 21st Century title would be for these sections? I want to stay away from something that one would need a fashion dictionary. The descriptions of the costumes are not like housedresses, they are more like fancy wrappers. But I don't think an average person in this century would know what a wrapper is. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 22:34:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2D3YkSd000879 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:34:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D3ODcP024340; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:24:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D3OClJ019053; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:24:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D3O9lK019024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:24:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net (acty2171.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.243.171]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2D3O7AI017771 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:24:08 -0500 Message-ID: <40527ED2.8020406@dandy.net> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:24:02 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] This American Life, was: New BBC Costume Drama References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. Thanks, Sarah, for the correction about the NPR/PRI thingie. I thought I remembered it being located there. BTW, it is an interesting show, since the subject matter is just what we talk about on this list. I recommend taking the time to see how subjects that are near and dear to us are seen by the rest of the world, it kind of gives you perspective. Cheers, Mike T. Sarah Lorraine wrote: > I love This American Life! Great program! If people are interested, > they won't find it on NPR's website, however. TAL is a Public Radio > International production. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 12 22:48:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2D3mcSd001004 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:48:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D3c2cP024957; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:38:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D3c0lJ024881; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:38:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D3bwlJ024854 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:37:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.176.69]) by smail2.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 10760405 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:28:26 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:38:26 -0600 Message-ID: <00ba01c408ac$a4efc2b0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <012201c408aa$43acff10$0200a8c0@MOM> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At-home wear? Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Penny Ladnier Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:21 PM To: h-costume Subject: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 I am working on some fashion reports from 1838. The articles refer to half-dress descriptions. This also means demi-toilette... something to lounge around the house in the early morning or late evening. Sometimes, when I put online in my table of contents, I use a title describing the contents of the article that people in the 21st Century can understand. I really don't want to use the titles of Half Dress or Demi-Toilette since I had to look them up in the dictionary for a definition. So what all do you think would be a good 21st Century title would be for these sections? I want to stay away from something that one would need a fashion dictionary. The descriptions of the costumes are not like housedresses, they are more like fancy wrappers. But I don't think an average person in this century would know what a wrapper is. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 00:20:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2D5KwSd001497 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:20:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D5AKcP029377; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:10:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D5AGlJ065801; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:10:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D5AElJ065782 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:10:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net (firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2D4bZZ20756 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:37:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-67.74.227.133.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([67.74.227.133] helo=HELENPINTO) by firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B20tv-00002Q-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:37:32 -0800 Message-ID: <035e01c408b4$e270df40$85e34a43@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <012201c408aa$43acff10$0200a8c0@MOM> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:37:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef4a6e182eab1735fa7268bd3b08883a89350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How about Loungewear? -Helen/Aidan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:21 PM Subject: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 I am working on some fashion reports from 1838. The articles refer to half-dress descriptions. This also means demi-toilette... something to lounge around the house in the early morning or late evening. Sometimes, when I put online in my table of contents, I use a title describing the contents of the article that people in the 21st Century can understand. I really don't want to use the titles of Half Dress or Demi-Toilette since I had to look them up in the dictionary for a definition. So what all do you think would be a good 21st Century title would be for these sections? I want to stay away from something that one would need a fashion dictionary. The descriptions of the costumes are not like housedresses, they are more like fancy wrappers. But I don't think an average person in this century would know what a wrapper is. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 01:18:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2D6HsSd001972 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:18:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D673cP001898; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D66slJ087743; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:06:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D66plJ087723 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:06:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-62.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.62]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D66mp0004356 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:06:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040312194651.05dce8c0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:48:14 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 In-Reply-To: <012201c408aa$43acff10$0200a8c0@MOM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I am working on some fashion reports from 1838. The articles refer to >half-dress descriptions. This also means demi-toilette... something to >lounge around the house in the early morning or late evening. Sometimes, >when I put online in my table of contents, I use a title describing the >contents of the article that people in the 21st Century can understand. I >really don't want to use the titles of Half Dress or Demi-Toilette since I >had to look them up in the dictionary for a definition. So what all do >you think would be a good 21st Century title would be for these sections? Lounge-wear? >I want to stay away from something that one would need a fashion >dictionary. The descriptions of the costumes are not like housedresses, >they are more like fancy wrappers. But I don't think an average person in >this century would know what a wrapper is. Wrapper = housecoat, or it did in America in the 1950s. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 01:53:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2D6rWSd002138 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:53:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D6gmcP003358; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:42:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D6gjlJ001145; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:42:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D6ghlJ001106 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:42:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD7F7AC00A2; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:43:11 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD6A50B0158; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:42:50 -0600 Message-ID: <016501c408c6$4ca70ea0$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20040312194651.05dce8c0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:42:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Now, Kayta... we have a new generation that doesn't know what a house coat is... some do not even know what a robe is! Maybe a few know what a robe is. Isn't that what is wore in LOTR???????? Just kidding the younger ones on the list. (Please don't flame me) Can you tell that 1838 is getting to my brain!!! I will finish it, I will finish it! (Have to keep telling myself this and keeping a sense of humor or I will go crazy) Hmmm... lounge wear today means... sweatpants and a t-shirt, which can also double as sports wear... the opposite. I think that I am going with Lounge Wear. I feel like a dinosaur now! Only three more months of reports to go for this Year in Fashion. The Paris reports are a lot easier than the London reports. Each month has both reports. Every time I come across a fashion term in these articles that I don't think the average person knows, I put in ( ) a brief definition. London's reports needs a lot of these definitions. I keep going back and forth between three fashion dictionaries. (I will finish it, I will finish it!) Time for a break on the heating pad... (then I will work on it again) Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 03:48:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2D8mBSd028399 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 03:48:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D8aFcP006290; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:36:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D8aClJ043745; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:36:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D8aAlJ043701 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:36:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A8158F800A2; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 02:36:37 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7F88CF01D6; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 02:36:08 -0600 Message-ID: <017901c408d6$1e016d10$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 03:35:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Another question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2D8mBSd028399 Status: RO Again from the 1838 London fashion report... it is a French word *chef d'or*. Does anyone know what this means? I can't find it in my three fashion dictionaries. Here is the sentence it is used in: White shawls with white fringe are perhaps the most distingue; but azure blue, or pearl grey shawls trimmed with white fringe - we mean, of course, the poil de Cachemere - are very elegant, particularly when a chef d'or is placed between the fringe and the shawl. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 04:24:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2D9NcSd028765 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 04:24:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D9BwcP007223; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 02:11:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D9BalJ055874; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 02:11:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D9BYlJ055857 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 02:11:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-37-62.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.37.62]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D9BTgi001679 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:11:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040313003029.062b1990@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:32:14 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 In-Reply-To: <016501c408c6$4ca70ea0$0200a8c0@MOM> References: <4.3.1.2.20040312194651.05dce8c0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Now, Kayta... we have a new generation that doesn't know what a house coat >is... some do not even know what a robe is! Bathrobe? >Maybe a few know what a robe is. >Isn't that what is wore in LOTR???????? The Harry Potter film had robes, by Madam Malkin, and I think some English school children still do. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 05:11:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DABiSd029054 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:11:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DA0pcP008383; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 03:00:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DA0nlJ072551; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 03:00:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DA0llJ072527 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 03:00:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABE92860062; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 04:01:13 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABD67880220; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 04:00:54 -0600 Message-ID: <018401c408e1$f45a29f0$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20040312194651.05dce8c0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040313003029.062b1990@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lounge Wear Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:00:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Funny Kayta, of all the kids I know between 12-27, none have bathrobes. We have a lot of kids spend the night. My oldest son had one when he was little. But that went down the drain as he got older. I have several bathrobes... one beautiful silk one my husband brought from a trip to Japan. I haven't worn a bathrobe in the past ten years. I haven't even seen a bathrobe in a store in years. They used to be a good Christmas gift for Moms and Dads. The only time I see people with them is going in and out of a sauna on TV. I really haven't seen kids wearing PJs in the past few years. Most of them wear t-shirts and boxers/loose shorts. I wonder if kids got tired of them when they are little. Generally, ladies wear long t-shirts, except for intimate nights. I know they sell night gowns for ladies in the stores... I have seen them! But most of them seem for old ladies, like Moo-Moos. The long t-shirts seem to have taken over the market. I wonder why the trend changed. I remember in the 60s, Mom had long flowing nighties of a lightweight fabric, maybe tricot (sp), and a matching beautiful long chiffon robe. She had them in all shades of pastels. Sometimes they had fake fur or feathers around the edge of the sleeves and hemline. I always wanted one... they looked like movie stars nighties. Darn, by the time I was old enough to wear one, they went out of fashion. But baby doll nighties were in fashion in the 70s. I loved them!!! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 05:24:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DAOQSd029108 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:24:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DADjcP009184; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 03:13:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DADilJ077503; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 03:13:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DADdlK077475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 03:13:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2DADEPV007004 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:13:14 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:13:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4052DECD.8000003@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:13:33 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lounge Wear References: <4.3.1.2.20040312194651.05dce8c0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040313003029.062b1990@mail.frys.com> <018401c408e1$f45a29f0$0200a8c0@MOM> In-Reply-To: <018401c408e1$f45a29f0$0200a8c0@MOM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny Ladnier wrote: > Funny Kayta, of all the kids I know between 12-27, none have bathrobes. We > have a lot of kids spend the night. Kids travel light to sleep-overs, or at least light on the practical side, like teens habits of never wearing coats to school unless it's really, really cold! I've seen this, watching kids get off the bus in the winter (I"m north of Boston.) But the bathrobe thing may be a regional variant; certainly everyone I know (except for my toddlers, who won't keep things on) has a bathrobe to wear around the house, or else they'd be cold! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 05:40:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DAeTSd029176 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:40:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DATccP010096; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 03:29:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DATZlJ082684; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 03:29:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DATXlJ082657 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 03:29:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06931439pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.138.0.130]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E90616036 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 02:29:33 -0800 (PST) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Lounge Wear Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:36:56 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <018401c408e1$f45a29f0$0200a8c0@MOM> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny wrote: I haven't worn a bathrobe in the past ten years. I haven't even seen a bathrobe in a store in years. They used to be a good Christmas gift for Moms and Dads. The only time I see people with them is going in and out of a sauna on TV. There are plenty of bathrobes at Walmart and Target. They are also readily available from merchants like Lands End. I get a new one every 5 years or so, as my old terry one gets worn out and a new one is necessary. If the kids don't have a robe, how do they get from the bathroom to their room to dress after a shower? -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 06:07:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DB7rSd029244 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:07:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DB7DcP011904; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 04:07:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DB7BlJ095352; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 04:07:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DB78lJ095309 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 04:07:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB771535008E; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:07:35 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB60290152; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:07:12 -0600 Message-ID: <019701c408eb$37e667c0$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lounge Wear Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:06:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Megan, I haven't seen them in the stores here in the Richmond, VA area in a long time. Everyone in my house dresses in the bathroom. Heaven forbid, they would take a towel to their bedroom and I would never get it back! If the towels went to their bedrooms it would be like went to the vast space where missing socks are. No one knows! They know... don't take off with my towels. Megan, we start outdoor swim meets in May and it is still cold here at night. The kids will get out of the pool and put on a hoodie, coat, or wrap up in a blanket. I have never seen one kid put on a robe coming out of the pool in seven years. We even have many cold night swim meets in June and July with a couple of hundred kids are there... no robes. Always blankets, hoodies, and coats. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 07:27:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DCRVSd029470 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:27:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DCQPcP014766; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:26:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DCQIlJ025332; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:26:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DCQFlJ025309 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:26:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B9EB1CF7F for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:05:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p256.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.2]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4137AC4E3 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:05:05 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:05:12 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Oops X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Anne Boleyn http://www.kunstkopie.de/static/kuenstler/Englisch--3161.html Has anyone seen this portrait before? De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 07:28:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DCSnSd029474 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:28:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DCSEcP014819; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:28:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DCSElJ025980; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:28:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DCQFlJ025312 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:26:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F0EF1CE42 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:55:07 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p256.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.2]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6A114C4E3 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:55:06 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:55:13 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Anne Boleyn X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Found this portrait that I had never seen before http://www.Kunstkopie.de/static/motive/Bildnis-der-Anne-Boleyn-der-zweiten-F rau-heinrichs-VII-von-Englisch-1018453.html De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 08:45:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DDjeSd029828 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:45:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DDj1cP017990; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DDivlJ052883; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:44:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DDitlJ052864 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:44:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2DDgKE21375 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:42:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B29P9-0007A5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:42:19 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Anne Boleyn Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:42:26 -0700 Message-ID: <001801c40901$05b2aeb0$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i2DDitlJ052864 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rats, can't get the link to work and the search doesn't come up with anything for Boleyn.... > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of otsisto > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 4:55 AM > To: Historic Costume > Subject: [h-cost] Anne Boleyn > > Found this portrait that I had never seen before > > http://www.Kunstkopie.de/static/motive/Bildnis-der-Anne-Boleyn-der-zweiten-F > rau-heinrichs-VII-von-Englisch-1018453.html > > De > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 08:51:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DDpwSd029849 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:51:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DDpMcP018329; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:51:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DDpLlJ055148; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:51:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mx01.supplyguys.net (mx01.supplyguys.net [65.115.27.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DDpKlK055139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:51:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wendyc@vivid.net) Received: (qmail 20284 invoked by uid 89); 13 Mar 2004 13:40:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) (65.115.27.31) by 0 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2004 13:40:53 -0000 Received: from c-66-56-95-30.atl.client2.attbi.com (c-66-56-95-30.atl.client2.attbi.com [66.56.95.30]) by secure.supplyguys.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:44:39 -0500 Message-ID: <1079185479.40531047629b3@secure.supplyguys.net> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:44:39 -0500 From: wendyc@vivid.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another question References: <017901c408d6$1e016d10$0200a8c0@MOM> In-Reply-To: <017901c408d6$1e016d10$0200a8c0@MOM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can't give you a complete answer but d'or means "of gold". It sounds like a band of gold. Wendy Colbert Quoting Penny Ladnier : > Again from the 1838 London fashion report... it is a French word *chef d'or*. > Does anyone know what this means? I can't find it in my three fashion > dictionaries. > > Here is the sentence it is used in: > > White shawls with white fringe are perhaps the most distingue; but azure > blue, or pearl grey shawls trimmed with white fringe - we mean, of course, > the poil de Cachemere - are very elegant, particularly when a chef d'or is > placed between the fringe and the shawl. > > > Penny E. Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 08:54:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DDsdSd029856 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:54:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DDs3cP018472; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:54:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DDs2lJ056168; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:54:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mx02.supplyguys.net (mx02.supplyguys.net [65.115.27.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DDrwlK056131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:53:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wendyc@vivid.net) Received: (qmail 3693 invoked by uid 89); 13 Mar 2004 13:39:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) (65.115.27.31) by 0 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2004 13:39:48 -0000 Received: from c-66-56-95-30.atl.client2.attbi.com (c-66-56-95-30.atl.client2.attbi.com [66.56.95.30]) by secure.supplyguys.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:47:17 -0500 Message-ID: <1079185637.405310e530749@secure.supplyguys.net> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:47:17 -0500 From: wendyc@vivid.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lounge Wear References: <4.3.1.2.20040312194651.05dce8c0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040313003029.062b1990@mail.frys.com> <018401c408e1$f45a29f0$0200a8c0@MOM> In-Reply-To: <018401c408e1$f45a29f0$0200a8c0@MOM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I live in Atlanta and my son, age 14 has a calf length terry robe and my daughter, a freshman at Ohio State University bought a somewhat shorter one when she was preparing for life in the dorms. My husband and I both have terry robes as well. Wendy Colbert Quoting Penny Ladnier : > Funny Kayta, of all the kids I know between 12-27, none have bathrobes. We > have a lot of kids spend the night. My oldest son had one when he was > little. But that went down the drain as he got older. I have several > bathrobes... one beautiful silk one my husband brought from a trip to > Japan. I haven't worn a bathrobe in the past ten years. I haven't even > seen a bathrobe in a store in years. They used to be a good Christmas gift > for Moms and Dads. The only time I see people with them is going in and out > of a sauna on TV. > > I really haven't seen kids wearing PJs in the past few years. Most of them > wear t-shirts and boxers/loose shorts. I wonder if kids got tired of them > when they are little. Generally, ladies wear long t-shirts, except for > intimate nights. I know they sell night gowns for ladies in the stores... I > have seen them! But most of them seem for old ladies, like Moo-Moos. The > long t-shirts seem to have taken over the market. > > I wonder why the trend changed. I remember in the 60s, Mom had long flowing > nighties of a lightweight fabric, maybe tricot (sp), and a matching > beautiful long chiffon robe. She had them in all shades of pastels. > Sometimes they had fake fur or feathers around the edge of the sleeves and > hemline. I always wanted one... they looked like movie stars nighties. > > Darn, by the time I was old enough to wear one, they went out of fashion. > But baby doll nighties were in fashion in the 70s. I loved them!!! > > Penny E. Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 09:14:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DEECSd029963 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:14:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DEDacP019713; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:13:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DEDYlJ063531; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:13:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2DEDRlJ063436 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:13:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCsxZgDjzT5CCbrul3aI/+rZyJxft778qFg==">; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:12:52 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JQLX58CQ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:12:52 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:07:44 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another question Message-ID: <20040313.080745.-160729081.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6,8-9,11-41 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can't give you a specific translation but just by translating the words you get: head of gold leader of gold ruler of gold >From the context I'd say it a band of gold trim of some sort placed along the edge of the shawl. The word 'chef' can mean any sort of leadership position (chef de cuisine is the head of the kitchen). Karen On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:44:39 -0500 wendyc@vivid.net writes: > > I can't give you a complete answer but d'or means "of gold". It > sounds like a > band of gold. > Wendy Colbert > Quoting Penny Ladnier : > > > Again from the 1838 London fashion report... it is a French word > *chef d'or*. > > Does anyone know what this means? I can't find it in my three > fashion > > dictionaries. > > > > Here is the sentence it is used in: > > > > White shawls with white fringe are perhaps the most distingue; but > azure > > blue, or pearl grey shawls trimmed with white fringe - we mean, of > course, > > the poil de Cachemere - are very elegant, particularly when a chef > d'or is > > placed between the fringe and the shawl. > > > > > > Penny E. Ladnier ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! 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Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 10:40:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DFedSd030922 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:40:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DFdtcP024021; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:39:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DFdjlJ096678; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:39:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pd4mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DFdhlJ096664 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:39:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jacyntha@shaw.ca) Received: from pd3mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (pd3mr1so-ser.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.177]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HUI000G7TTMQH@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:32:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml4so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.148]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HUI00I4OTTMSG@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:32:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from Customer ([24.83.14.205]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with SMTP id <0HUI00D13TTLEH@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:32:09 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:35:01 -0800 From: Connie / Jacyntha Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lounge Wear To: Historical Costume Message-id: <003201c40910$c05d8e60$cd0e5318@vc.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <4.3.1.2.20040312194651.05dce8c0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040313003029.062b1990@mail.frys.com> <018401c408e1$f45a29f0$0200a8c0@MOM> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My 14 year old didn't wear one for years, but for Christmas I made him a polar fleece camo robe and he rarely takes it off when he's in the house. I bought one for myself (it was cheaper than making it) and wear it fairly often too. I remember those chiffony sets, maybe we're slow in Canada but they were still around in the early 80's. Connie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 2:00 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lounge Wear > Funny Kayta, of all the kids I know between 12-27, none have bathrobes. We > have a lot of kids spend the night. My oldest son had one when he was > little. But that went down the drain as he got older. I have several > bathrobes... one beautiful silk one my husband brought from a trip to > Japan. I haven't worn a bathrobe in the past ten years. I haven't even > seen a bathrobe in a store in years. They used to be a good Christmas gift > for Moms and Dads. The only time I see people with them is going in and out > of a sauna on TV. > > I really haven't seen kids wearing PJs in the past few years. Most of them > wear t-shirts and boxers/loose shorts. I wonder if kids got tired of them > when they are little. Generally, ladies wear long t-shirts, except for > intimate nights. I know they sell night gowns for ladies in the stores... I > have seen them! But most of them seem for old ladies, like Moo-Moos. The > long t-shirts seem to have taken over the market. > > I wonder why the trend changed. I remember in the 60s, Mom had long flowing > nighties of a lightweight fabric, maybe tricot (sp), and a matching > beautiful long chiffon robe. She had them in all shades of pastels. > Sometimes they had fake fur or feathers around the edge of the sleeves and > hemline. I always wanted one... they looked like movie stars nighties. > > Darn, by the time I was old enough to wear one, they went out of fashion. > But baby doll nighties were in fashion in the 70s. I loved them!!! > > Penny E. Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.611 / Virus Database: 391 - Release Date: 3/3/04 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 10:44:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DFigSd031024 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:44:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DFi0cP024345; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DFhwlJ098397; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:43:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DFhulJ098340 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:43:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.1f0.1b619c6a (18707) for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:38:35 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1f0.1b619c6a.2d8484fb@aol.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:38:35 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/12/2004 10:38:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, kbaird@cableone.net writes: > But I > don't think an average person in this century would know what a wrapper > is. > Sure they would! Wrap is very popular with teens now! Seriously, I don't think this term is too out there. Nor is Half Dress....which are two words everybody understands and the implications [What?! Are they in their BVDs?] might make someone want to know just what you mean and explore. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 11:58:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DGw9Sd032629 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:58:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DGv4cP028598; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:57:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DGv0lJ027741; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:57:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DGuvlJ027714 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:56:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.123] (pm7-123.eos.net [205.133.149.123]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DGusqU014120 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:56:54 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:56:44 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200403131354.i2DDsSlK056341@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: bathrobes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We all have bathrobes in our house! Pajamas, too. I mean real pajamas, not sweatpants and t-shirts. And all the stores certainly sell bathrobes, from the department stores to the discount stores. Dots, which is a chain of really cheap women's clothes stores catering mostly to teens, always has seasonal robes and PJs. TJ Maxx, my personal favorite chain, does too. And so do the department stores I am starting to use more and more. I got my current bathrobe at a consignment shop. It's grape purple, with a polyester jaquard outside and a microfleece lining. Big lapels, sort of a smoking gown look. The mosty comfy robe I have ever owned. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 11:58:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DGwJSd032639 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:58:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DGvgcP028631; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:57:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DGvglJ028025; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:57:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DGvclJ027962 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:57:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0A9542625 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:11:59 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40533F68.4020705@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:05:44 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 References: <012201c408aa$43acff10$0200a8c0@MOM> In-Reply-To: <012201c408aa$43acff10$0200a8c0@MOM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Myself, I would like to see the original terms used with the modern terms in parentheses next to it. Perhaps 'casualwear' or 'loungewear'. When I do costume searches I try to use words as historically correct as possible, because that is what I am looking for, but I appreciate seeing a definition next to new terminology. Dawn Penny Ladnier wrote: > I am working on some fashion reports from 1838. The articles refer to half-dress descriptions. This also means demi-toilette... something to lounge around the house in the early morning or late evening. Sometimes, when I put online in my table of contents, I use a title describing the contents of the article that people in the 21st Century can understand. I really don't want to use the titles of Half Dress or Demi-Toilette since I had to look them up in the dictionary for a definition. So what all do you think would be a good 21st Century title would be for these sections? I want to stay away from something that one would need a fashion dictionary. The descriptions of the costumes are not like housedresses, they are more like fancy wrappers. But I don't think an average person in this century would know what a wrapper is. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 12:08:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DH8vSd000367 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:08:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DH8HcP029185; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:08:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DH8FlJ032608; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:08:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail2.mdx.safepages.com (mail2.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DH8ElJ032600 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:08:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79E8F1D14EF for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:08:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail2.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail2.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 85337-02 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:08:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 2A69A1D14CD; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:08:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust147.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.147]) by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 14B0D1D14BF for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:08:12 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <118401c4091d$eeaad090$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4051EC3D.2010103@darklord.com> <4051F133.7070103@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:09:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com Cc: Subject: [h-cost] sleeve closures (was: medieval button closures) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This discussion reminds me of another type of sleeve closure I've seen on a couple of men's garments in mid-late 15thC paintings--the sleeves are laced shut, with what I'd guess is silk ribbon on one and some sort of cord in the other. Has anyone seen or read of this? Anyone found it on women's garments? http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1474-memlingdet.jpg This type of closure would explain a type of sleeve that's been bugging me for a while, in which there's obviously a slit for fastening, but there's no buttons, even though the painting is detailed enough that such a thing would certainly have been shown, or in some cases is shown, just not on the sleeves. When I first noticed the laced closures, I had one of those great "Oh, DUH! What a simple solution" moments. I had another of those moments recently, also with sleeves. This type: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/det1490anne_aus.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/det1498magdalen2.jpg has perplexed me for quite a while, and I was thinking that the answer was something along the lines of a fur trim on the sleeve of an unlined underdress, or a complicated cuff... well, oh DUH, it's simply a long fur-lined sleeve that's been folded back, then folded forward again. (The moral of the story being, always look for the simple solution.) And in search of yet another "oh, DUH," has anyone found written accounts of black chemises c1490-c1530? -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 12:41:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DHf5Sd000903 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:41:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DHeOcP000721; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:40:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DHeMlJ046503; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:40:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DHeKlK046477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:40:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DHgkE6031635 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:42:46 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i2DHgk1w031633 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:42:46 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lounge Wear Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:42:45 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <4.3.1.2.20040312194651.05dce8c0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040313003029.062b1990@mail.frys.com> <018401c408e1$f45a29f0$0200a8c0@MOM> In-Reply-To: <018401c408e1$f45a29f0$0200a8c0@MOM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403131242.45915.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 13 March 2004 05:00 am, Penny Ladnier wrote: > Funny Kayta, of all the kids I know between 12-27, none have bathrobes. We > have a lot of kids spend the night. My oldest son had one when he was > little. But that went down the drain as he got older. I have several > bathrobes... one beautiful silk one my husband brought from a trip to > Japan. I haven't worn a bathrobe in the past ten years. I haven't even > seen a bathrobe in a store in years. They used to be a good Christmas gift > for Moms and Dads. The only time I see people with them is going in and > out of a sauna on TV. For a long while, bathrobes were one of the things I always got for Christmas from my mom. But no Victorian woman would *ever* willingly have worn a garment that was as stained and torn as my present cotton chamois cloth bathrobe. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 12:47:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DHlaSd001013 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:47:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DHkCcP001037; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:46:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DHk9lJ049038; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:46:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DHk7lK049025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:46:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DHmXE6031718 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:48:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i2DHmXO2031716 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:48:33 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bathrobes Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:48:33 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403131248.33514.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 13 March 2004 11:56 am, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > We all have bathrobes in our house! Pajamas, too. I mean real pajamas, not > sweatpants and t-shirts. And all the stores certainly sell bathrobes, from > the department stores to the discount stores. Dots, which is a chain of > really cheap women's clothes stores catering mostly to teens, always has > seasonal robes and PJs. TJ Maxx, my personal favorite chain, does too. And > so do the department stores I am starting to use more and more. The big mail-order preppy outfitters (Lands' End, LL Bean) generally carry bathrobes also--particularly polar fleece and terry cloth robes. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 13:27:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DIRVSd001335 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:27:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DIQgcP003337; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:26:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DIQdlJ066730; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:26:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DIQalJ066719 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:26:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2DI4xE28288 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:04:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-65.58.144.84.dial1.pittsburgh1.level3.net ([65.58.144.84] helo=HELENPINTO) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B2DVJ-0001T1-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:04:58 -0800 Message-ID: <008f01c40925$af3f7cf0$54903a41@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <017901c408d6$1e016d10$0200a8c0@MOM> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another question Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:04:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef34641678ef3929ffd1eb730f29fbc904350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In heraldry, a "chef d'or" is a horizontal gold band running across the top of the shield. I'd have to go with a gold border between the body of the shawl and the fringe. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 16:10:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DLAfSd002056 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:10:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DJTicP006658; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:29:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DJT0lJ094763; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:29:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f47.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DJSwlJ094719 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:28:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:11:38 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.6 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:11:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.6] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:11:38 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Mar 2004 19:11:38.0457 (UTC) FILETIME=[0293CC90:01C4092F] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Today's term VS 1838 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Penny Ladnier >I am working on some fashion reports from 1838. The articles refer to >half-dress descriptions. This also means demi-toilette... something to >lounge around the house in the early morning or late evening. >Sometimes, when I put online in my table of contents, I use a title >describing the contents of the article that people in the 21st Century >can understand. I really don't want to use the titles of Half Dress or >Demi-Toilette since I had to look them up in the dictionary for a >definition... >From personal experience - please at least consider using the original term and not just mis-applying some later term that really means something else. If 21st century people won't understand the terms, add a brief glossary. I spend far too much time having to deal with messes left by earlier costumers and shoe historians trying to make things make more accessible to what the perceive as uninformed moderns, and thereby making things more confusing. If you use a more modern term, you run the risk of some well meaning costumer down the line thinking "well she wouldn't have called a demi-toilette a dingfarble if she didn't mean that demi-toilettes were dingfarbles, ergo dingfarbles are period for this (even though they weren't invented until 1982)." Marc. _________________________________________________________________ One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – download MSN Toolbar now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 17:20:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DMKnSd002918 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:20:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMK4cP014594; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:20:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMJulJ071928; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:20:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMIslJ071449 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:19:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDB7B1D066 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:18:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t3p026.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.220.28]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D3AA4D411 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:18:52 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Anne Boleyn Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:19:01 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001801c40901$05b2aeb0$6a01a8c0@SG01> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry , The link on "oops" will get you there. De -----Original Message----- Rats, can't get the link to work and the search doesn't come up with anything for Boleyn.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 17:26:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DMQlSd002964 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:26:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMPlcP014797; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:25:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMPjlJ074736; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:25:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMPhlJ074713 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:25:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B2HZd-0009xM-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:25:41 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:25:38 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama References: <40527697.4000704@dandy.net> In-Reply-To: <40527697.4000704@dandy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO michael tartaglio wrote >Hi. All. On this and similar subjects, we here in the US and others on >the Internet who listen to National Public Radio might have heard last >weeks "This American Life" by Ira Glass. His subject matter was >reality and the different ways we (Americans) perceive it, and how >people alter it to fit their views. The beginning piece is by another >radio journalist who interviewed Civil War (US) reenactors about >"authenticity" (The word "farb" was mentioned) The other pieces were >on, among other subjects, how our view of dinosaurs and their "way of >life" has changed and how it mirrors our world view, and how a >University of Chicago Medieval History professor viewed going to >"Medieval Times", a themed dinner show/tournament at an ersatz >"castle". In the piece on the dinosaurs, I can draw a parallel to what >Cindy is talking about regarding how "history" has been viewed through >the eye of film. I believe that you can listen to the program by going >to National Public Radio on the web, locating "This American Life" and >looking for the program entitled "Simulated Worlds" BTW, apparently he >doesn't realize that Europeans do reenacting too (he asks" what if >English and French people reenacted the Norman Conquest?"). Mike T. Unfortunately I don't have the facility to listen to the whole article, but isn't this a weird comment, given that he started out with Civil War reenactors? I would have thought that the issues there are much fresher and more likely to stir up feeling than...Hastings, Agincourt, Crecy, Bannockburn, English Civil War, Jacobite rebellions, and many more ... all of which have been re-fought frequently between reenactors of the original opposing sides - not to mention Isandlwana recently! Jean > >Cindy Abel wrote: > >>Read "Hollywood and History" an excellent book of how the movies have shown >>the current(at the time of making of the film)fashionable aesthetic to some >>degree since the dawn of the motion picture. Edward Maeder is the author. He >>traces many films from designer's concept to finished product. Budget, time, >>concern with star actors vanity(or lack thereof, in a few cases), studio >>heads' concern, and even the Hays Code have all played a part in influencing >>historic film costuming. Fascinating reading >> >>For movies showing on TCM and AMC, especially, spotting all the >>anachronistics in costuming, makeup, and hairstyles is the fun!! >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 17:38:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DMcpSd003047 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:38:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMcAcP015319; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:38:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMc5lJ080237; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:38:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMc3lK080206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:38:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2DNA1Wm001020 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:10:01 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AD46398008A; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:37:58 -0500 Received: from mvettorel1.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.114]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:37:57 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <002b01c4094c$96590f40$725183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20040312194651.05dce8c0@mail.frys.com><4.3.1.2.20040313003029.062b1990@mail.frys.com><018401c408e1$f45a29f0$0200a8c0@MOM> <1079185637.405310e530749@secure.supplyguys.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lounge Wear Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:43:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My younger daughter (wow, 30 this year!) favors a ratty pink chenille which she bought when she went to college. (But then, not every dorm has "cookies and milk at 9:30 PM every night!) She wants a new(er)one, but it has to be exactly like the one that should bite the dust. I wear terry and flannel-backed satin in the winter and a wonderful 1970's kimono inspired open front caftan. (Can't remember the right ethnic name for the robe. We keep a flannel robe in the traveling suitcase for my husband...but he prefers long night shirts. My brother favors exotic caftans in the evening. My older daughter does the oversized tees and mismatched flannel bottoms. La, Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lounge Wear > I live in Atlanta and my son, age 14 has a calf length terry robe and my > daughter, a freshman at Ohio State University bought a somewhat shorter one > when she was preparing for life in the dorms. > > My husband and I both have terry robes as well. > > Wendy Colbert > Quoting Penny Ladnier : > > > Funny Kayta, of all the kids I know between 12-27, none have bathrobes. We > > have a lot of kids spend the night. My oldest son had one when he was > > little. But that went down the drain as he got older. I have several > > bathrobes... one beautiful silk one my husband brought from a trip to > > Japan. I haven't worn a bathrobe in the past ten years. I haven't even > > seen a bathrobe in a store in years. They used to be a good Christmas gift > > for Moms and Dads. The only time I see people with them is going in and out > > of a sauna on TV. > > > > I really haven't seen kids wearing PJs in the past few years. Most of them > > wear t-shirts and boxers/loose shorts. I wonder if kids got tired of them > > when they are little. Generally, ladies wear long t-shirts, except for > > intimate nights. I know they sell night gowns for ladies in the stores... I > > have seen them! But most of them seem for old ladies, like Moo-Moos. The > > long t-shirts seem to have taken over the market. > > > > I wonder why the trend changed. I remember in the 60s, Mom had long flowing > > nighties of a lightweight fabric, maybe tricot (sp), and a matching > > beautiful long chiffon robe. She had them in all shades of pastels. > > Sometimes they had fake fur or feathers around the edge of the sleeves and > > hemline. I always wanted one... they looked like movie stars nighties. > > > > Darn, by the time I was old enough to wear one, they went out of fashion. > > But baby doll nighties were in fashion in the 70s. I loved them!!! > > > > Penny E. Ladnier > > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > > www.costumegallery.com > > www.costumeclassroom.com > > > > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > > (http://www.plugit.com)] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 17:39:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DMdkSd003055 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:39:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMdAcP015375; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:39:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMd7lJ080713; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:39:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMd4lJ080684 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:39:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0D421D276 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:39:04 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t3p026.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.220.28]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 57E74D4AF for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:39:03 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] sleeve closures (was: medieval button closures) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:39:11 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <118401c4091d$eeaad090$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is a portrait of Lucia von Munchausen, by Ludger Tom Ring d.j. What I have is a black and white photo. This is the portrait that people I know use as a "documentation" for color chemises. They too only have seen the black and white photo and not in color. They point out that the elbow slashes do not have white coming through but there is fabric peeking through. I point out that the cuff ruffle is white with blackwork and normally the ruffle is connected to the chemise. This should be the link to the a blk and wht- http://www.thrednedlestrete.com/more/p22.htm De -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of E House Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 11:09 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] sleeve closures (was: medieval button closures) This discussion reminds me of another type of sleeve closure I've seen on a couple of men's garments in mid-late 15thC paintings--the sleeves are laced shut, with what I'd guess is silk ribbon on one and some sort of cord in the other. Has anyone seen or read of this? Anyone found it on women's garments? http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1474-memlingdet.jpg This type of closure would explain a type of sleeve that's been bugging me for a while, in which there's obviously a slit for fastening, but there's no buttons, even though the painting is detailed enough that such a thing would certainly have been shown, or in some cases is shown, just not on the sleeves. When I first noticed the laced closures, I had one of those great "Oh, DUH! What a simple solution" moments. I had another of those moments recently, also with sleeves. This type: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/det1490anne_aus.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/det1498magdalen2.jpg has perplexed me for quite a while, and I was thinking that the answer was something along the lines of a fur trim on the sleeve of an unlined underdress, or a complicated cuff... well, oh DUH, it's simply a long fur-lined sleeve that's been folded back, then folded forward again. (The moral of the story being, always look for the simple solution.) And in search of yet another "oh, DUH," has anyone found written accounts of black chemises c1490-c1530? -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 17:49:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DMnRSd003179 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:49:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMmmcP015874; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:48:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMmllJ085344; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:48:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMmglK085305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:48:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2DNKdWm013429 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:20:40 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AFC42050092; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:48:36 -0500 Received: from mvettorel1.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.114]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:48:36 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <004701c4094e$12bb9980$725183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <012201c408aa$43acff10$0200a8c0@MOM> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:53:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny, I have two of these garments, both are white. One is full length and the other a jacket. The white-work embroidery puts them mid century.. Also I have a blue and white satin one from the 1890's that is described as a "combing jacket". I guess they were 'boudoir wear in their time frame. Not at all like VS or Frederick's, but perhaps that term might connect with the present time, even minus the 'sexy' connotation. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:21 PM Subject: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 I am working on some fashion reports from 1838. The articles refer to half-dress descriptions. This also means demi-toilette... something to lounge around the house in the early morning or late evening. Sometimes, when I put online in my table of contents, I use a title describing the contents of the article that people in the 21st Century can understand. I really don't want to use the titles of Half Dress or Demi-Toilette since I had to look them up in the dictionary for a definition. So what all do you think would be a good 21st Century title would be for these sections? I want to stay away from something that one would need a fashion dictionary. The descriptions of the costumes are not like housedresses, they are more like fancy wrappers. But I don't think an average person in this century would know what a wrapper is. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 17:55:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DMtISd003276 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:55:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMsccP016143; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:54:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMsZlJ088309; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:54:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMsVlK088270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:54:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2DNQTWm021358 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:26:29 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A124590060; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:54:28 -0500 Received: from mvettorel1.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.114]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:54:27 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <005901c4094e$e41fb9c0$725183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <012201c408aa$43acff10$0200a8c0@MOM> <035e01c408b4$e270df40$85e34a43@HELENPINTO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:59:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Garments of this description and period would never be worn outside the confines of the bedroom, or at least no further than the 'morning room'. Only to be seen by the intimate family members. Colored wrappers or "indienne" sorts were ok for the indoors, but one would be dressed in the back yard, if only to hang the wash. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 > How about Loungewear? > -Helen/Aidan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Penny Ladnier" > To: "h-costume" > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:21 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 > > > I am working on some fashion reports from 1838. The articles refer to > half-dress descriptions. This also means demi-toilette... something to > lounge around the house in the early morning or late evening. Sometimes, > when I put online in my table of contents, I use a title describing the > contents of the article that people in the 21st Century can understand. I > really don't want to use the titles of Half Dress or Demi-Toilette since I > had to look them up in the dictionary for a definition. So what all do you > think would be a good 21st Century title would be for these sections? I > want to stay away from something that one would need a fashion dictionary. > The descriptions of the costumes are not like housedresses, they are more > like fancy wrappers. But I don't think an average person in this century > would know what a wrapper is. > > Penny E. Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 17:56:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DMuVSd003297 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:56:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMtucP016215; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:55:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMttlJ088927; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:55:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.k12.hi.us (honu.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.214]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMtolJ088910 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:55:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from makani (makani.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.195]) by smtp.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D74A506D8 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:51:38 -1000 (HST) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:54:06 -1000 (HST) From: annora X-X-Sender: To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] black chemises In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > And in search of yet another "oh, DUH," has anyone found written accounts of > black chemises c1490-c1530? This isn't a direct answer and it's not a written account but it opens up a possibility. Cranach has a painting of woman whose *shift is definitely not white. My copy is in B&W so I don't know what color it actually is but the photo reads as a dark color. It's German, ~1525 and some opine that it's not actually a shift. The woman is wearing a "Cranach gown" but it's laced directly over the undergarment--no white placket under the breast band. And the band is _above_ the breasts so I'm not sure if it's part of the overgown or the undergarment. --annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 17:57:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DMvHSd003328 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:57:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMuccP016269; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:56:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMublJ089299; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:56:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DMuLlK089171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:56:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2DNSKWm022361 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:28:21 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A192286008C; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:56:18 -0500 Received: from mvettorel1.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.114]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:56:18 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <006701c4094f$26182740$725183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bathrobes Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:01:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So is mine! Forrest green satin...and as warm as the old terry. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 11:56 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: bathrobes > > We all have bathrobes in our house! Pajamas, too. I mean real pajamas, not > sweatpants and t-shirts. And all the stores certainly sell bathrobes, from > the department stores to the discount stores. Dots, which is a chain of > really cheap women's clothes stores catering mostly to teens, always has > seasonal robes and PJs. TJ Maxx, my personal favorite chain, does too. And > so do the department stores I am starting to use more and more. > > I got my current bathrobe at a consignment shop. It's grape purple, with a > polyester jaquard outside and a microfleece lining. Big lapels, sort of a > smoking gown look. The mosty comfy robe I have ever owned. > > Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 18:03:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DN3YSd003400 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:03:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DN2ucP016651; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:02:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DN2tlJ092042; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:02:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DN2qlK092007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:02:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2DNYpWm029454 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:34:51 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A31A7006C; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:02:50 -0500 Received: from mvettorel1.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.114]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:02:49 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <007301c40950$0f8318e0$725183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200403131248.33514.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bathrobes Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:08:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah, but there is a difference between a bathrobe and a dressing gown. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bathrobes > On Saturday 13 March 2004 11:56 am, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > We all have bathrobes in our house! Pajamas, too. I mean real pajamas, not > > sweatpants and t-shirts. And all the stores certainly sell bathrobes, from > > the department stores to the discount stores. Dots, which is a chain of > > really cheap women's clothes stores catering mostly to teens, always has > > seasonal robes and PJs. TJ Maxx, my personal favorite chain, does too. And > > so do the department stores I am starting to use more and more. > > The big mail-order preppy outfitters (Lands' End, LL Bean) generally carry > bathrobes also--particularly polar fleece and terry cloth robes. > > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 18:10:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DNAkSd003474 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:10:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DNA7cP016952; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:10:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DNA5lJ095151; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:10:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DN9QlJ094709 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:10:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2FE51D439 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:09:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t3p026.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.220.28]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 61413D411 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:09:24 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] sleeve closures (was: medieval button closures) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:09:32 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is just royally pissing me off. Apparently the previous link doesn't work right so, http://www.thrednedlestrete.com/morse/Illustrations.htm Look for Munchausen De -----Original Message----- There is a portrait of Lucia von Munchausen, by Ludger Tom Ring d.j. What I have is a black and white photo. This is the portrait that people I know use as a "documentation" for color chemises. They too only have seen the black and white photo and not in color. They point out that the elbow slashes do not have white coming through but there is fabric peeking through. I point out that the cuff ruffle is white with blackwork and normally the ruffle is connected to the chemise. This should be the link to the a blk and wht- http://www.thrednedlestrete.com/more/p22.htm De -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of E House Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 11:09 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] sleeve closures (was: medieval button closures) This discussion reminds me of another type of sleeve closure I've seen on a couple of men's garments in mid-late 15thC paintings--the sleeves are laced shut, with what I'd guess is silk ribbon on one and some sort of cord in the other. Has anyone seen or read of this? Anyone found it on women's garments? http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1474-memlingdet.jpg This type of closure would explain a type of sleeve that's been bugging me for a while, in which there's obviously a slit for fastening, but there's no buttons, even though the painting is detailed enough that such a thing would certainly have been shown, or in some cases is shown, just not on the sleeves. When I first noticed the laced closures, I had one of those great "Oh, DUH! What a simple solution" moments. I had another of those moments recently, also with sleeves. This type: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/det1490anne_aus.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/det1498magdalen2.jpg has perplexed me for quite a while, and I was thinking that the answer was something along the lines of a fur trim on the sleeve of an unlined underdress, or a complicated cuff... well, oh DUH, it's simply a long fur-lined sleeve that's been folded back, then folded forward again. (The moral of the story being, always look for the simple solution.) And in search of yet another "oh, DUH," has anyone found written accounts of black chemises c1490-c1530? -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 18:40:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DNeiSd003836 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:40:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DNdpcP018571; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:39:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DNdmlJ008272; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:39:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (cumulus.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DNdklJ008217 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:39:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (dialup-a1-215.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.246.215]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id A029B6B8EA for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:39:33 +1100 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:43:57 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Aww, why don't they do a new costume drama so they can have some leftover costumes to fit out another series of Blake's Seven, the best period costume series never set in the past? -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 18:51:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DNpISd003914 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:51:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DNoWcP019123; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:50:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DNoVlJ012900; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:50:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12505.mail.yahoo.com (web12505.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.197]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2DNoSlJ012876 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:50:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sorepaws@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040313234346.42037.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.43.239.90] by web12505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:43:46 PST Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:43:46 -0800 (PST) From: Lil Sorepaws To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200403132310.i2DNAXlL095441@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Historical Sewing Machine Question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, De-lurking to ask yet another stooopid question: I just bough an OLD SEARS Roebuck table sewing machine with the "wheels" for special stitches .. its a metal Kenmore in a dusty purple and white enamel .. (I can take a photo) has from what I can see ALL the feet and attachements and about 10-12 special stitch wheels ... my question is twofold: Anyone have an idea of when sears stopped selling metal kenmores and also what these machines are called (the ones with the pattern wheels ...) Anyone in SE Michigan know how to use ? It has most of the manuals and instructions in it and aside from some dog eared corners and one corner where it looks like their cat chewed on the manual, everything looks to be almost MINT ... and the pictures in the manuals show a lady dressed in what looks to me like 50's or 60's.. very tailored top and a tight waisted full skirt (think around or pre-poodle skirt - maybe early Laverne and Shirly era?) I got the table and chair (with little sewing caddy in the chair and scissors etc) for darn near a steal ($40 USD)... so can someone clue me in? The only person I KNOW who knows about these machines is somewhere in Hamilton Ontario an I have no idea what her name is ... I am just geaked about all the fancy hem feet it has ... WHEE ... - Lil (ooh!ber-geek wanna-be ;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 19:04:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E04GSd004023 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:04:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E03bcP019669; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:03:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E03ZlJ018978; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:03:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (cumulus.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E03VlJ018952 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:03:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (dialup-a1-215.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.246.215]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id A674E6CC7F for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:03:29 +1100 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Lounge Wear Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:07:56 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <1079185637.405310e530749@secure.supplyguys.net> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmm, now let me see: I have a couple of full-length, heavyweight white towelling ones; and A very lightweight satin one with The Phantom printed all over it (good for travelling when you know the hotel won't have big, heavyweight white towelling ones). In the past, I have had both Dior and Cardin cotton or cotton blend robes, both of which were badly cut - why the hell can't Lagerfeld design one? Some years back, I tried the cotton kimono thing but found it too hot even in the half hour it takes to stumble out of bed, stare blearily at the breakfast table, and fall into the shower. I tend to wear slippers until they fall apart which is when they become eligible for the Distressed Costume Box (actors should not be barefoot on stage because stage managers are slack about sweeping the wings). Some years back, I was given a huge, velvet smoking jacket with a patchwork of velvet on the cuffs and lapels, a 1970s variant on the traditional smoking jacket. I don't know what became of it, I will probably find it when I move house some time in the future. Flat-front men's trousers, similar to those that became popular in the mid-1970s and in the early-1980s, have been around for years and are usually referred to as lounge trousers in older tailoring manuals. Back on the robes thing, it is surprising how many robe-like items I am asked to make for boxers and wrestlers that have to be adjusted to suit their entrance and presentation needs - future historians are gonna be pretty confused about the true shape of the human body if they find some of these! So, there, you now know the contents of the back of my bedroom door. Can I get off-a here and stare blearily at some coffee now? -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 19:19:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E0JgSd004136 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:19:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E0J8cP020553; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:19:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E0J5lJ025744; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:19:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E0J2lK025725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:19:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2E0IdPV010153 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:18:39 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:18:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4053A4F2.7030304@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:18:58 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Historical Sewing Machine Question References: <20040313234346.42037.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040313234346.42037.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lil Sorepaws wrote: > has from what I can see ALL the feet and > attachements and about 10-12 special stitch wheels My mom always called these "cams." Mom's metal Kenmore is probably from the mid 60s. It's olive green. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 19:58:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E0wNSd004368 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:58:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E0vhcP022259; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:57:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E0vclJ042228; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:57:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mx01.supplyguys.net (mx01.supplyguys.net [65.115.27.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E0vXlK042192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:57:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wendyc@vivid.net) Received: (qmail 30356 invoked by uid 89); 14 Mar 2004 00:53:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) (65.115.27.21) by 0 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2004 00:53:46 -0000 Received: from c-66-56-95-30.atl.client2.attbi.com (c-66-56-95-30.atl.client2.attbi.com [66.56.95.30]) by secure.supplyguys.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:57:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1079225853.4053adfd0e343@secure.supplyguys.net> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:57:33 -0500 From: wendyc@vivid.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Historical Sewing Machine Question References: <20040313234346.42037.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> <4053A4F2.7030304@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <4053A4F2.7030304@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting Cynthia Virtue : > Lil Sorepaws wrote: > > > has from what I can see ALL the feet and > > attachements and about 10-12 special stitch wheels > > My mom always called these "cams." Mom's metal Kenmore is probably from > the mid 60s. It's olive green. Yup,that is what they are called in the manual that came with the machine. I still have mine. It is still my work horse machine. Wendy Colbert _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 20:28:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E1ShSd004502 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:28:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E1S5cP023829; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:28:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E1S3lJ054690; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:28:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes1.whowhere.com [209.202.220.218]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2E1RxlJ054641 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:28:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 01:21:05 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 01:21:05 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.65 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] I'm back and forthcoming books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I'm finally back on the list after almost 2 months without much computer access. I can now be reached at dannw@eudoramail.com or Danielle.Nunn-Weinberg@stud.man.ac.uk (I can only check this one on campus so I don't check it as frequently). I was recently at a great little conference called: The Material Renaissance: Costs and Consumption in Italy 1400-1650 and found out about 2 forthcoming books. The first is "Shopping in the Renaissance" by Evelyn Welch Due January 2005 from Yale Press and the other is "Secondhand Trade in Early Modern Venice" by Patricia Allerston due in the fall of 2005. Both ladies were excellent speakers and their books should be interesting. Cheers, Danielle Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 20:44:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E1iwSd004590 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:44:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E1iIcP024355; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:44:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E1iFlJ061375; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:44:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E1iClJ061360 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:44:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.74]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B2K2h-000066-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:03:51 -0800 Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B2K2g-0006Rp-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:03:50 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:03:57 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c40960$3b634b50$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Oops Link??? was Anne Boleyn X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooops link?? Did I miss it and erase a different note? Could you post the link again? > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of otsisto > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 3:19 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Anne Boleyn > > Sorry , The link on "oops" will get you there. > > De > > -----Original Message----- > > Rats, can't get the link to work and the search doesn't come up with > anything for Boleyn.... > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 20:47:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E1lSSd004608 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:47:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E1kTcP024441; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:46:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E1kTlJ062310; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:46:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E1kPlJ062250 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:46:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A9862BE40096; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:46:46 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A97023700E8; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:46:24 -0600 Message-ID: <003b01c40966$162cb780$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <012201c408aa$43acff10$0200a8c0@MOM> <40533F68.4020705@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:45:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn, I am glad you like this way of giving a definition for period term. I received a book from an author and I loved the book. She would explain new terms in one chapter. But if I didn't memorize it then, and the word was used again in later chapters I was screwed and had to find the place in the other chapter that it was explained. So I decided when we started putting online, that I would put in parentheses something someone could relate too. Some words like "waist" mean something entirely different the 19th-early 20th centuries. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 20:53:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E1rKSd004636 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:53:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E1qgcP024741; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:52:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E1qflJ064807; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:52:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E1qdlJ064799 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:52:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.189]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B2Jms-0001Rl-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:47:30 -0800 Received: from dialup-65.58.144.84.dial1.pittsburgh1.level3.net ([65.58.144.84] helo=HELENPINTO) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B2Jmq-0007A6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:47:28 -0800 Message-ID: <041801c4095d$e996a8f0$54903a41@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040313234346.42037.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Historical Sewing Machine Question Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:47:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9efbced6369ea43c4200dde044a2a036bd9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The "wheels" were called cams, at least on my mother's old late 50's Singer. There was a compartment on the top of the machine where you dropped the cam in on a spindle; the ridges on the cams guided the machine to make the decorative stitches. I also still have my 1973 Kenmore (still works- two cabinets died in its service). It has a metal head. In 1986, I bought a new Kenmore for the good sewing, by then the heads were no longer metal. I can't narrow it down further than that. Hope this helps, -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 21:08:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E28aSd004745 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:08:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E27ocP025243; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:07:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E27llJ070739; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:07:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12502.mail.yahoo.com (web12502.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2E27ilJ070727 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:07:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sorepaws@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040314020103.9287.qmail@web12502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.43.239.90] by web12502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:01:03 PST Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:01:03 -0800 (PST) From: Lil Sorepaws To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Vintage Sewing Machine Question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, De-lurking to ask yet another stooopid question: I just bought an OLD SEARS Roebuck table sewing machine with the "wheels" for special stitches .. its a metal Kenmore in a dusty purple and white enamel .. (I can take a photo) has from what I can see ALL the feet and attachements and about 10-12 special stitch wheels ... my question is twofold: Anyone have an idea of when sears stopped selling metal kenmores and also what these machines are called (the ones with the pattern wheels ...) Anyone in SE Michigan know how to use ? It has most of the manuals and instructions in it and aside from some dog eared corners and one corner where it looks like their cat chewed on the manual, everything looks to be almost MINT ... and the pictures in the manuals show a lady dressed in what looks to me like 50's or 60's.. very tailored top and a tight waisted full skirt (think around or pre-poodle skirt - maybe early Laverne and Shirly era?) I got the table and chair (with little sewing caddy in the chair and scissors etc) for darn near a steal ($40 USD)... so can someone clue me in? The only person I KNOW who knows about these machines is somewhere in Hamilton Ontario an I have no idea what her name is ... I am just geaked about all the fancy hem feet it has ... WHEE ... - Lil (ooh!ber-geek wanna-be ;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 21:24:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E2O7Sd004838 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:24:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E2NRcP025935; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:23:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E2NOlJ076960; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:23:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E2NMlJ076877 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:23:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2301CFA008E; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:23:44 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A21E2BA00E8; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:23:26 -0600 Message-ID: <004401c4096b$42a2e960$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Today's term VS 1838 Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:22:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Marc, I put old and new in the text of the article. All of my definitions are in parentheses in the text. Otherwise the text stays original. We thought about a glossary at one time, but it would turn into a fashion dictionary. At this moment, I can't deal with building a fashion dictionary, an encyclopedia, and color index all at one time. Need a few more lifetimes to complete all that. Every day I sent out a daily fashion definition to our Library subscribers. I sometimes reference a new word that is in the new Library articles. The subscribers are advised that if they want to collect the daily definitions in a Word document for their make their own personal fashion dictionary. I figure if I am getting frustrated going through three fashion dictionaries to figure out these 1838 articles... how does someone feel who doesn't have access to a fashion dictionary at all. Angela Lazaar (on this email list) must collect our daily definitions because when I come across a funny definition, she writes me back with some funny or cute comments. She brightens my day! Sometimes I send out links for more information about the definition. This past week, one of the definitions was about the history of department stores. That newsletter included links pointing to some of the popular department stores' history on their websites. I learned just how big the May and Proffitts Companies are... they seem to be swallowing up the industry. Really amazing! They have been purchasing fashion companies left and right. Another topic, worth exploring. As you can tell, not all the definitions are straight forward definitions. Currently, I am reading a 200+ page book on the history of zippers. As I come across interesting facts, that might be the definition of the day. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 21:50:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E2oYSd005019 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:50:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E2nVcP026940; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:49:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E2nSlJ087623; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:49:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E2nKlJ087527 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:49:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.130.5]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D4B86A994 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:49:19 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:26:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [h-cost] Lounge Wear Message-ID: <4053526F.23656.1586F963@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <018401c408e1$f45a29f0$0200a8c0@MOM> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > If the kids don't have a robe, how do they get from the > bathroom to their room to dress after a shower? -Megan Even people I know who have bathrobes still sometimes just take their clothes into the bathroom and change directly into them there. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 21:50:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E2oZSd005020 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:50:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E2nscP026984; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:49:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E2nrlJ087781; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:49:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E2nolJ087753 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:49:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.130.5]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90C8C6A9C3 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:49:20 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:26:53 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lounge Wear Message-ID: <4053526D.6034.1586F135@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4052DECD.8000003@thibault.org> References: <018401c408e1$f45a29f0$0200a8c0@MOM> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > But the bathrobe thing may be a regional variant; certainly everyone I > know (except for my toddlers, who won't keep things on) has a bathrobe > to wear around the house, or else they'd be cold! Everyone I know has a bathrobe. Some have several. (I have a packable silky one which I can wear if I have to get to bed from the bathroom in front of roommates, two terrycloth ones, and several that only my husband gets to see. My husband has two. One is terry cloth and one is packable cotton.) And that goes for people I've known all over the US (NC, Texas, California, NY, Montana, etc.) My mother always had bathrobes and she must have had several. She met me and my date at the front door in the rattiest bathrobe I'd ever seen the only time I came in at 3am. (She'd never given me a curfew and I had no idea that she sat up waiting for me. She always looked sound asleep when I came in so I didn't call her to tell her that I'd be later than usual.) It was a pink chenille floor length, which was literally ragged and faded. I had never seen it before and never saw it again after that night. I wonder if she had had it saved in the closet for just such an eventuality. Heaven only knows that she is/was as bad a pack rat as I am. But that's why I still have her late 1930's-early 1940's cocktail dress so I'm not going to complain. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 21:51:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E2p9Sd005028 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:51:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E2oMcP027032; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:50:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E2oKlJ088023; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:50:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E2oJlJ088011 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:50:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.130.5]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B36CA6A994 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:49:50 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:26:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 Message-ID: <4053526F.8344.1586F76F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <40533F68.4020705@reddawn.net> References: <012201c408aa$43acff10$0200a8c0@MOM> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Myself, I would like to see the original terms used with the modern > terms in parentheses next to it. Perhaps 'casualwear' or 'loungewear'. > When I do costume searches I try to use words as historically correct > as possible, because that is what I am looking for, but I appreciate > seeing a definition next to new terminology. I don't think I'd use "casual wear" as that sounds like street clothes. (But then, I've never understood why "sports wear" in the stores always turned out to be regular street wear and you had to go to a completely separate department which often had no name for jogging suits, exercise clothes and the like. Target has them in the shoe/bag department. Go figure!) Loungewear sounds the best of the ones I've heard so far. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 21:53:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E2rbSd005033 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:53:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E2qwcP027155; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:52:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E2qwlJ089030; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:52:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E2qjlJ088937 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:52:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.176.69]) by smail2.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 10946061 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:43:11 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:53:23 -0600 Message-ID: <00e301c4096f$846296d0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <1079225853.4053adfd0e343@secure.supplyguys.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Historical Sewing Machine Question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cams are the little wheels you put in the machine to make it do different stitches. That was the only way to achieve these stitches before the electronic (computerized) machines. Some machine had cams built in, and you moved a switch to change from one to the other. Some machines had so many different cams, you had to physically put them in and take them out to change stitches. About all those nifty presser feet--they may very well fit your current sewing machine. Sometimes you can buy an adapter to make them fit. Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 22:08:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E380Sd005130 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:08:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E37LcP027810; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:07:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E37JlJ095172; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:07:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E37HlJ095132 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:07:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC7A1DCF008E; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:07:38 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC5532A00E8; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:07:01 -0600 Message-ID: <006201c40971$58fff3a0$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20040312194651.05dce8c0@mail.frys.com><4.3.1.2.20040313003029.062b1990@mail.frys.com><018401c408e1$f45a29f0$0200a8c0@MOM> <1079185637.405310e530749@secure.supplyguys.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lounge Wear Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:48:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I thought long about this last night and I think I have figured out for the lack of robes in my area. Now this will sound funny but in our area, it is a fashion to have homes with the curtains drawn open at all times. Some people do not even have curtains. I've noticed this fashion in Williamsburg too. People may have shades they pull in their bedroom at night. The houses in my neighborhood at Colonial style. I can drive down the street at night and see into everyone's bottom floor of their house. In my house the only room that has covering over the window full time is the main bathroom. So maybe this is why people don't wear robes or PJs around the house in our area. I can pull up in my driveway at night and tell who is eating at the dinner table. I remember a long time ago someone from h-costume came to visit and we drove all around the fan and Monument Ave. (historic area of town) at night looking in house windows from the street admiring the decor inside. At Christmas time, some people even put flood lights outside shining on their house to where you can see inside better. I believe Susan, my asst., did this tour with me too. During the day, it is hard to see inside the house, but at night it is beautiful. We always had curtains on our windows until we moved into this neighborhood seven years ago. I have no idea where this tradition started. Carol lives in Northern VA, maybe she has some insight or maybe some of our Tidewater h-costumers. I do remember some of the older neighborhoods in DC do this too. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 22:19:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E3JTSd005176 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:19:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E3IocP028398; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:18:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E3InlJ000306; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:18:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E3IMlK099885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:18:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2E3L5Rg002834 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:21:16 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Lounge Wear Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:19:55 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4053526F.23656.1586F963@localhost> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well... The door to my room is only a step or two from the bathroom, so I've developed a "quick look" and fast step. Of course it helps that the household is usually female (Snoopy the cat doesn't seem to care. He just blinks and looks bored!). For those days when my housemate's fiance is around, he just has to learn to avert his eyes :-) I also have a large flannel sheet that I can wrap around me like a toga or sari. It doubles as a towel, and works when I have to answer the door bell for the mail carrier. > > Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey Never attribute to malice what can as easily be attributed to simple social ineptness > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of kat@grendal.rain.com > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 6:27 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Lounge Wear > > > > > If the kids don't have a robe, how do they get from the > > bathroom to their room to dress after a shower? -Megan > > Even people I know who have bathrobes still sometimes just take their > clothes into the bathroom and change directly into them there. > > Kat > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 22:29:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E3TGSd005209 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:29:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E3SUcP028909; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:28:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E3STlJ004409; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:28:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E3SQlJ004392 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:28:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.232]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B2KUH-0004p3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:32:21 -0800 Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B2KUG-0000Zl-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:32:21 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] I'm back and forthcoming books Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:32:28 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c40964$36fb3970$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i2E3SQlJ004392 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Very interesting...your note goes into my saved file...thanks for the info Sg > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Danielle Nunn-Weinberg > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 1:21 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] I'm back and forthcoming books > > Greetings, > > I'm finally back on the list after almost 2 months without much computer access. I > can now be reached at dannw@eudoramail.com or Danielle.Nunn- > Weinberg@stud.man.ac.uk (I can only check this one on campus so I don't check it > as frequently). > > I was recently at a great little conference called: The Material Renaissance: Costs > and Consumption in Italy 1400-1650 and found out about 2 forthcoming books. > The first is "Shopping in the Renaissance" by Evelyn Welch Due January 2005 > from Yale Press and the other is "Secondhand Trade in Early Modern Venice" by > Patricia Allerston due in the fall of 2005. Both ladies were excellent speakers and > their books should be interesting. > > Cheers, > Danielle > > > Need a new email address that people can remember > Check out the new EudoraMail at > http://www.eudoramail.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 22:30:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E3UgSd005228 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:30:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E3TucP028982; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:29:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E3TtlJ005041; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:29:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E3TplK005025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:29:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2E3XCRg013554 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:33:13 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] No Window coverings, Was: Lounge Wear Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:32:03 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <006201c40971$58fff3a0$0200a8c0@MOM> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I was in the Netherlands and Belgium several years ago I noticed the same tendency to have the curtains open at least during the day. I commented on it to an old lady who had taken us in and was treating us like kin. Her explanation was that pulling the curtains or shades during the day was tantamount to proclaiming you were a terrible housekeeper and were ashamed to have anyone see inside. Even when they had lace curtains on the windows they were looped back during the day. Also the front steps were scrubbed and the walkway in front of the house swept every day. Houseproud we used to call it in the US. Wanda Pease "All I want is a warm bed, a kind word and unlimited power". > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Penny Ladnier > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 6:48 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lounge Wear > > > I thought long about this last night and I think I have figured > out for the > lack of robes in my area. Now this will sound funny but in our > area, it is > a fashion to have homes with the curtains drawn open at all times. Some > people do not even have curtains. I've noticed this fashion in > Williamsburg > too. People may have shades they pull in their bedroom at night. The > houses in my neighborhood at Colonial style. I can drive down > the street at > night and see into everyone's bottom floor of their house. In my > house the > only room that has covering over the window full time is the main > bathroom. > So maybe this is why people don't wear robes or PJs around the > house in our > area. I can pull up in my driveway at night and tell who is eating at the > dinner table. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 13 23:51:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E4pGSd005629 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:51:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E4obcP002408; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:50:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E4oVlJ038708; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:50:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E4oTlJ038646 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:50:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5B3942615 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:04:52 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4053E680.5010601@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:58:40 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Today's term VS 1838 References: <004401c4096b$42a2e960$0200a8c0@MOM> In-Reply-To: <004401c4096b$42a2e960$0200a8c0@MOM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny Ladnier wrote: > I figure if I am getting frustrated going through three fashion dictionaries > to figure out these 1838 articles... how does someone feel who doesn't have > access to a fashion dictionary at all. Very glad for those semesters of French in college. I've been looking up fashion items from the mid to late 1800's myself, and English sources are no help. Many of the words are French and are still in use in that language, even if the meaning may have changed slightly, at least I think I am figuring it out properly. For example, I had no idea what a 'pardessus' was until I found a French clothing catalog with a man's overcoat listed under that term. I think it was actually used as a woman's overcoat in period, but none of my English sources even had the word listed. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 14 00:04:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E54gSd005654 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:04:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E541cP002839; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E540lJ044037; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:04:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E53slJ043971 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:03:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7CE1F43008E; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:04:14 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7B777501E0; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:03:51 -0600 Message-ID: <00f301c40981$ac4f5d10$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004401c4096b$42a2e960$0200a8c0@MOM> <4053E680.5010601@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Today's term VS 1838 Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:03:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn, I am actually considering taking some French classes at a community college for the very reason you stated. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 14 00:18:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E5I5Sd005769 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:18:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E5H9cP003280; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:17:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E5H8lJ049527; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:17:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E5H4lJ049475 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:17:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAE41F76008E; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:17:24 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AACB3D3015E; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:16:59 -0600 Message-ID: <011d01c40983$81874c30$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <017901c408d6$1e016d10$0200a8c0@MOM> <1079185479.40531047629b3@secure.supplyguys.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another question Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:16:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you so much Wendy and Karen for the translation! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 14 00:22:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E5MKSd005801 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:22:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E5LjcP003537; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:21:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E5LilJ051418; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:21:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12504.mail.yahoo.com (web12504.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.196]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2E5LhlJ051404 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:21:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sorepaws@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040314051502.19550.qmail@web12504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.43.239.90] by web12504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:15:02 PST Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:15:02 -0800 (PST) From: Lil Sorepaws To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200403140253.i2E2rBlL089169@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Still Slightly OT: Cam Sewing Machine (THANKS) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks everyone for answering .. I looked through all the little attachement and goodies that came with it when I was dusting and wiping down the chair .. and this thing has over 25 fancy stitches and almost 2 dozen different FEET!!! From what I can see the machine was maybe used once or twice, there is no wear at all on any of the parts including the foot control ... My mom was looking it over and was totally enthralled - I had planned to give it to a friend of mine at cost who was looking for a sewing machine and mom was like "No, you're keeping this one!" LOL ... We will probably be testing it out tomorrow ... oy! Anyways, if anyone has tips or tricks or advice for it .. its much appreciated and you're welcome to take it offlist to sorepaws@yahoo.com ;) Thanks again and one of these days I will actually post something historical (as opposed to hysterical) that I've made ... - Lil (a little loopy today ;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 14 01:45:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E6jnSd006169 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 01:45:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E6ilcP007504; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:44:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E6idlJ083086; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:44:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E6ialJ083066 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:44:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.74]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B2KOh-0002Ba-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:26:35 -0800 Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B2KOf-0002dv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:26:33 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Historical Sewing Machine Question Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:26:38 -0700 Message-ID: <000301c40963$681d9d00$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <1079225853.4053adfd0e343@secure.supplyguys.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's funny to see these referred to as historical...but you are right they are.... I just bought one myself. I was trying to replace the one my father taught me to sew on back in the mid 60's. I have been soooooo disappointed in my Viking #1. I just bought my Kenmore for 75$. It still works like a champ. It makes perfect button holes every-time! They are kind of like old cars.....Kept in good condition, it will last several lifetimes I am sure. Congratulations on a great purchase! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 14 02:20:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2E7KsSd006420 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 02:20:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E7JCcP009099; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:19:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E7J4lJ095773; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:19:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2E7J0lJ095751 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:19:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B2D1CF75 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 01:19:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p493.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4C8C8C424 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 01:18:59 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Oops Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 01:19:08 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's the first picture. De -----Original Message----- Anne Boleyn http://www.kunstkopie.de/static/kuenstler/Englisch--3161.html Has anyone seen this portrait before? De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 14 08:28:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2EDSSSd020904 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:28:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EDOZcP025005; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 06:24:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EDONlJ028297; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 06:24:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EDOLlK028279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 06:24:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2EDuUWm023027 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:56:30 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AD0376F008C; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:24:19 -0500 Received: from RMITCHELL-RAS ([209.131.81.127]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:24:18 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <002301c409c8$6937f2c0$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040313234346.42037.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Historical Sewing Machine Question Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:29:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When you say wheels do you mean 'cams"? My previous machine, model 1939, purchased about1974, is one of the last metal machines by Kenmore of which I am aware. It is still going reasonably well. I replaced it only because it was beginning to need new parts that are difficult to find. I love the buttonholer also. Especially need to do 10 or more identical! It is still my main backup to the Pfaff. I have bought two other Kenmores for my daughters, who are still somewhat ambivalent re sewing for repair and creativity. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lil Sorepaws" To: Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 6:43 PM Subject: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Historical Sewing Machine Question > Hi, > > De-lurking to ask yet another stooopid question: > > I just bough an OLD SEARS Roebuck table sewing machine with the "wheels" > for special stitches .. its a metal Kenmore in a dusty purple and white > enamel .. (I can take a photo) has from what I can see ALL the feet and > attachements and about 10-12 special stitch wheels ... my question is > twofold: Anyone have an idea of when sears stopped selling metal kenmores > and also what these machines are called (the ones with the pattern wheels > ...) > > Anyone in SE Michigan know how to use ? It has most of the manuals and > instructions in it and aside from some dog eared corners and one corner > where it looks like their cat chewed on the manual, everything looks to be > almost MINT ... and the pictures in the manuals show a lady dressed in > what looks to me like 50's or 60's.. very tailored top and a tight waisted > full skirt (think around or pre-poodle skirt - maybe early Laverne and > Shirly era?) > > I got the table and chair (with little sewing caddy in the chair and > scissors etc) for darn near a steal ($40 USD)... so can someone clue me > in? The only person I KNOW who knows about these machines is somewhere in > Hamilton Ontario an I have no idea what her name is ... > > I am just geaked about all the fancy hem feet it has ... WHEE ... > > - Lil (ooh!ber-geek wanna-be ;) > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 14 08:38:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2EDchSd020965 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:38:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EDYncP025547; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 06:34:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EDYmlJ032039; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 06:34:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EDYjlK032019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 06:34:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2EE6sWm003940 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 09:06:54 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AF7345B006C; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:34:43 -0500 Received: from RMITCHELL-RAS ([209.131.81.127]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:34:42 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <003701c409c9$dd9dcf80$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040314020103.9287.qmail@web12502.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Vintage Sewing Machine Question Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:40:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It is still probably possible to get a whole manual from Sears Service Center (Atlanta) One thing I have found, that as far as manuals go, theirs is quite strait forward as a "how to do"... First off, it was written in English off the bat, and not 'translated' by a non English speaking tech. My machine head is ivory colored. One of the other ones is the olive green model. What is the model number? Sears SC can date yours by that number. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lil Sorepaws" To: Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 9:01 PM Subject: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Vintage Sewing Machine Question > Hi, > > De-lurking to ask yet another stooopid question: > > I just bought an OLD SEARS Roebuck table sewing machine with the "wheels" > for special stitches .. its a metal Kenmore in a dusty purple and white > enamel .. (I can take a photo) has from what I can see ALL the feet and > attachements and about 10-12 special stitch wheels ... my question is > twofold: Anyone have an idea of when sears stopped selling metal kenmores > and also what these machines are called (the ones with the pattern wheels > ...) > > Anyone in SE Michigan know how to use ? It has most of the manuals and > instructions in it and aside from some dog eared corners and one corner > where it looks like their cat chewed on the manual, everything looks to be > almost MINT ... and the pictures in the manuals show a lady dressed in > what looks to me like 50's or 60's.. very tailored top and a tight waisted > full skirt (think around or pre-poodle skirt - maybe early Laverne and > Shirly era?) > > I got the table and chair (with little sewing caddy in the chair and > scissors etc) for darn near a steal ($40 USD)... so can someone clue me > in? The only person I KNOW who knows about these machines is somewhere in > Hamilton Ontario an I have no idea what her name is ... > > I am just geaked about all the fancy hem feet it has ... WHEE ... > > - Lil (ooh!ber-geek wanna-be ;) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 14 08:41:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2EDfXSd020988 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:41:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EDemcP025877; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 06:40:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EDellJ034200; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 06:40:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EDeglK034187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 06:40:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2EECpWm010040 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 09:12:52 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A0D87B1008C; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:40:40 -0500 Received: from RMITCHELL-RAS ([209.131.81.127]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:40:39 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <004001c409ca$b26abd40$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040314020103.9287.qmail@web12502.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Vintage Sewing Machine Question Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:46:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO By hem feet, do you mean the cams or the 'Feet"? The cams are more than for hemming. When I first got mine, I did decorative borders 4-8" deep on skirts. I also used them to make embroidered ribbon for other trims. Read the manual for the settings of the kind of cams you are using, adjust the knobs accordingly and go to it! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lil Sorepaws" To: Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 9:01 PM Subject: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Vintage Sewing Machine Question > Hi, > > De-lurking to ask yet another stooopid question: > > I just bought an OLD SEARS Roebuck table sewing machine with the "wheels" > for special stitches .. its a metal Kenmore in a dusty purple and white > enamel .. (I can take a photo) has from what I can see ALL the feet and > attachements and about 10-12 special stitch wheels ... my question is > twofold: Anyone have an idea of when sears stopped selling metal kenmores > and also what these machines are called (the ones with the pattern wheels > ...) > > Anyone in SE Michigan know how to use ? It has most of the manuals and > instructions in it and aside from some dog eared corners and one corner > where it looks like their cat chewed on the manual, everything looks to be > almost MINT ... and the pictures in the manuals show a lady dressed in > what looks to me like 50's or 60's.. very tailored top and a tight waisted > full skirt (think around or pre-poodle skirt - maybe early Laverne and > Shirly era?) > > I got the table and chair (with little sewing caddy in the chair and > scissors etc) for darn near a steal ($40 USD)... so can someone clue me > in? The only person I KNOW who knows about these machines is somewhere in > Hamilton Ontario an I have no idea what her name is ... > > I am just geaked about all the fancy hem feet it has ... WHEE ... > > - Lil (ooh!ber-geek wanna-be ;) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 14 08:52:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2EDqQSd021020 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:52:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EDpkcP026589; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 06:51:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EDpklJ038252; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 06:51:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EDphlK038234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 06:51:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2EENqWm020614 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 09:23:53 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A36D4AC006C; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:51:41 -0500 Received: from RMITCHELL-RAS ([209.131.81.127]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:51:40 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <004c01c409cc$3c8453a0$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <012201c408aa$43acff10$0200a8c0@MOM> <4053526F.8344.1586F76F@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:57:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO But Victorians did not 'lounge' in the way we do now. No one has mentioned 'penoir' as one of the equivocal terms for these sorts of dressed down garments. It comes closer to the idea of 'demi dress', but puts the garment firmly in the 'only-to-wear-in-the-bedroom/boudoir mode. When I think of lounge wear, it can be worn on the back porch or patio, relaxing, or receiving guests ...One wouldn't wear it to the mall or to someone else's house to visit. I gather from my own study of the myriad garments used in the 19th C, that there were 'upstairs' clothes and 'downstairs clothes'. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 9:26 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 > > > Myself, I would like to see the original terms used with the modern > > terms in parentheses next to it. Perhaps 'casualwear' or 'loungewear'. > > When I do costume searches I try to use words as historically correct > > as possible, because that is what I am looking for, but I appreciate > > seeing a definition next to new terminology. > > I don't think I'd use "casual wear" as that sounds like street > clothes. (But then, I've never understood why "sports wear" in the > stores always turned out to be regular street wear and you had to go > to a completely separate department which often had no name for > jogging suits, exercise clothes and the like. Target has them in the > shoe/bag department. Go figure!) > > Loungewear sounds the best of the ones I've heard so far. > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 14 09:57:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2EEviSd021446 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 09:57:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EEv0cP029567; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 07:57:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EEuwlJ063202; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 07:56:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EEurlJ063171 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 07:56:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.176.69]) by smail2.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 11086685 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 07:47:19 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:57:38 -0600 Message-ID: <010401c409d4$b186e160$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <20040314051502.19550.qmail@web12504.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Cam Sewing Machine\ X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another thing to remember about Kenmore appliances, including sewing machines, is that Sears never manufactured these. They commissioned them from other manufacturers, made to their specifications. So your old Kenmore could have been made by White or Brother or who knows? Would be interesting to find out. Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 14 15:32:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2EKW5Sd024579 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:32:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EKVBcP016964; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:31:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EKV1lJ008219; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:31:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EKUplJ008125 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:30:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.133.138]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C01566D723 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:30:48 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:30:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lounge Wear Message-ID: <4054506C.28823.3CFEFF7@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <006201c40971$58fff3a0$0200a8c0@MOM> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I thought long about this last night and I think I have figured out > for the lack of robes in my area. Now this will sound funny but in > our area, it is a fashion to have homes with the curtains drawn open > at all times. Some people do not even have curtains. I've noticed > this fashion in Williamsburg too. People may have shades they pull in > their bedroom at night. The houses in my neighborhood at Colonial > style. I can drive down the street at night and see into everyone's > bottom floor of their house. In my house the only room that has > covering over the window full time is the main bathroom. So maybe this > is why people don't wear robes or PJs around the house in our area. I > can pull up in my driveway at night and tell who is eating at the > dinner table. You obviously must not have much problem with voyeurs or peepers. I guess most people I know have enough security concerns that they have very good curtains. I don't think they want the neighbors to know what they were doing. Frankly, I think I'd be more likely to wear a robe (and the nicest one I could find) if I didn't keep the drapes drawn. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 14 17:57:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2EMvjSd025939 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:57:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EMuncP024208; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:56:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EMujlJ073235; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:56:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes2.whowhere.com [209.202.220.219]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2EMuglJ073201 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:56:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:49:46 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:49:46 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: RE: [h-cost] I'm back and forthcoming books X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.66 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You're welcome. I'm just glad to be back on H-Costume, I was suffereing from serious withdrawl. : ) Cheers, Danielle --------- Original Message --------- From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" >Very interesting...your note goes into my saved file...thanks for the info > >Sg Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 14 18:03:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2EN3ASd025973 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:03:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EN2ScP024470; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:02:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EN2QlJ075877; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:02:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav63.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.198]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2EN2OlJ075815 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:02:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:02:19 -0800 Received: from 66.130.28.116 by bay9-dav63.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 23:02:19 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.28.116] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <017901c408d6$1e016d10$0200a8c0@MOM> <1079185479.40531047629b3@secure.supplyguys.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another question Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:02:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2004 23:02:19.0328 (UTC) FILETIME=[66CADC00:01C40A18] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have one theory. In heraldic terms, chef is, I believe, the top band of the device/shield (I'm not a herald). So I think it could just simply mean a gold band. What exactly this would be made of, or how, I have no idea. Chef, in French, means "head" (as in chief or boss, or literally as the body part, such as in the word "couvre-chef" -> head covering) > Quoting Penny Ladnier : > > > Again from the 1838 London fashion report... it is a French word *chef d'or*. > > Does anyone know what this means? I can't find it in my three fashion > > dictionaries. > > > > Here is the sentence it is used in: > > > > White shawls with white fringe are perhaps the most distingue; but azure > > blue, or pearl grey shawls trimmed with white fringe - we mean, of course, > > the poil de Cachemere - are very elegant, particularly when a chef d'or is > > placed between the fringe and the shawl. > > > > > > Penny E. Ladnier > > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > > www.costumegallery.com > > www.costumeclassroom.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 14 19:27:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2F0RaSd026365 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:27:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F0PkcP029463; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:25:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F0PalJ011978; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:25:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F0PXlK011946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:25:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2F0vmWm031068 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:57:48 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A7FAC8008A; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:25:30 -0500 Received: from pcaffrey.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.109]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:25:29 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <001101c40a24$c7e21740$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <012201c408aa$43acff10$0200a8c0@MOM> <4053526F.8344.1586F76F@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:30:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And dressing in this time period was never 'casual'. You were either Dressed, or undressed. I think that class consciousness kicks in here. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 9:26 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Today's term VS 1838 > > > Myself, I would like to see the original terms used with the modern > > terms in parentheses next to it. Perhaps 'casualwear' or 'loungewear'. > > When I do costume searches I try to use words as historically correct > > as possible, because that is what I am looking for, but I appreciate > > seeing a definition next to new terminology. > > I don't think I'd use "casual wear" as that sounds like street > clothes. (But then, I've never understood why "sports wear" in the > stores always turned out to be regular street wear and you had to go > to a completely separate department which often had no name for > jogging suits, exercise clothes and the like. Target has them in the > shoe/bag department. Go figure!) > > Loungewear sounds the best of the ones I've heard so far. > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 14 19:29:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2F0TOSd026377 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:29:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F0ShcP029811; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:28:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F0SglJ013315; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:28:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F0SclK013299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:28:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2F10tWm002472 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:00:55 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A8B51640078; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:28:37 -0500 Received: from pcaffrey.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.109]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:28:36 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <002301c40a25$37398240$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <010401c409d4$b186e160$0201a8c0@kimathlon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cam Sewing Machine\ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:34:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I vaguely remember that when I bought mine, that the clerk suggested that the head was made by 'White". Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 9:57 AM Subject: [h-cost] Cam Sewing Machine\ > > > Another thing to remember about Kenmore appliances, including sewing > machines, is that Sears never manufactured these. They commissioned them > from other manufacturers, made to their specifications. > > So your old Kenmore could have been made by White or Brother or who > knows? Would be interesting to find out. > > Kim > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 14 22:08:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2F38FSd027358 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:08:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F33hcP009384; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:03:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F33dlJ081723; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:03:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a34-mta02.direcway.com (a34-mta02.direcpc.com [66.82.4.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F33alJ081662 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:03:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bettina.anderson@direcway.com) Received: from phoenix (dpclt032001.direcpc.com [64.157.32.1]) by a34-mta02.direcway.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with SMTP id <0HUL00EKTKHIDW@a34-mta02.direcway.com> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:03:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:03:30 -0500 From: Bettina Anderson To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] FW: Re: Carmelite Habit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:50:11 -0800 > From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carmelite Habit > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20040304224725.05a53e20@mail.frys.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > > Wow, thanks. Is there a book about this? An online resource? I don't > know where to start asking questions. I guess what I want is a dress-able > doll wearing all the parts, and the book of the history and description to > go with it. Failing which, I can probably go ask at the same nunnery that > Carmelite lived in. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com Actually there is a book. I am a little behind on my digests, so someone else may have answered this already, but I am currently reading The Habit: A History of Clothing of Catholic Nuns, a book by Elisabeth Kuhns. It is highly intersting with regards to the history of the habit of various Orders and the different elements of the habit. Many pictures, too. They still make the "Nun Dolls" and paper dress up dolls as well, I think I googled on "nuns habit" and came up with a number of interesting links (for example www.nunshabits.com a Franciscan site. Bettina _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 14 22:32:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2F3WASd027463 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:32:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F3VScP010974; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:31:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F3VOlJ094399; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:31:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2F3VNlJ094379 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:31:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 4323 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2004 03:31:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2004 03:31:21 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:31:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1099.24.4.69.40.1079321481.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <20040306153148.66304.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> References: <002b01c40379$bc561220$6a01a8c0@SG01> <20040306153148.66304.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:31:21 -0800 (PST) From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] problem with my post X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello list, I wrote an e-mail earlier today and sent some pictures as attachments. I haven't seen my post come up....is sending pictures bad? Does a moderator have to approve of them before the post comes up or did it go into electronic wasteland? I don't have a website that I can point people to so all I could do was send pictures along with the e-mail. Does anybody have an idea on how I could still let the group see the pictures if I can't send them with my e-mail? BTW, the post is regarding buttoned/cotehardie sleeves and I took a picture of my pattern, a finished sleeve, and a statue with buttoned sleeves as reference. Thanks! Diana -- Diana Habra www.renaissancefabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 14 23:14:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2F4EiSd027651 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 23:14:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F4E4cP013414; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 21:14:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F4DxlJ013298; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 21:14:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F4DvlJ013268 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 21:13:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06931439pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.138.0.130]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E3A815CAA for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:14:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Historical Sewing Machine Question Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 23:19:55 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20040313234346.42037.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is an entire list devoted to people who use old Kenmore sewing machines on yahoo. It is the vintagekenmoresew list. I bet someone there knows all about your machine. -Megan Lil Sorepaws wrote: I just bough an OLD SEARS Roebuck table sewing machine with the "wheels" for special stitches .. its a metal Kenmore in a dusty purple and white enamel .. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 15 01:34:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2F6YVSd028181 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 01:34:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F6WwcP019080; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 23:32:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F6WnlJ069014; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 23:32:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mx.slumberland.org (proxy.slumberland.org [216.162.201.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2F6WilJ068970 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 23:32:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from litlnemo@slumberland.seattle.wa.us) Received: from [192.168.1.23] ([192.168.1.23] verified) by mx.slumberland.org (Stalker SMTP Server 1.8b9d14) with ESMTP id S.0002347068 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:17:27 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: litlnemo@mx2.slumberland.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20040312165610.7016.qmail@web14009.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040312165610.7016.qmail@web14009.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:13:16 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Wendi Dunlap-Simpson Subject: Re: [h-cost] moderated costuming site. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 4:56 PM +0000 3/12/04, Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: >http://slumberland.org/moodle/course/view.php?id=5 > >Alternative to AIPON Wow, I didn't catch this message when it first came through. The site referred to, MedCos, is my website. I set up a rough version of it last year with the intention of meeting the need that AIPON had demonstrated, but never really had a chance to enhance it. So I didn't advertise it much, and mostly just let it sit until I could think about what to do with it. :) Anyway. Just in the last week some folks nudged me to enhance and promote the site a bit. So I have been working on it. (Just since Friday, even, the site has been quite a bit improved, I think. I got rid of the confusing old Garb Review section, for example, and replaced it with something a little easier to understand.) I've been recruiting moderators to help in the different areas, and we've all been adding content. The plan is to keep adding more content, and even scheduled activities. (Monday, March 15, at 7:00pm Eastern Standard Time, there is a scheduled chat about 14th Century costuming, and there will be more scheduled chats coming up.) It's not dormant anymore and it looks like things are starting to happen. So... if you stumbled on the site a few months ago (when it was dormant) or even last week, look into it again, click around, see if you find anything helpful. If you think something is missing... post and tell us. We are gradually adding everything we can think of. :) Thanks, -- -- Wendi *-----------------------+---------------------------------------+-------* \ Wendi Dunlap-Simpson | litlnemo at slumberland.seattle.wa.us | dear / / Seattle, Wash., USA | http://www.slumberland.seattle.wa.us | 23 \ *--"Somehow everything will be a little different than you thought"-----* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 15 02:12:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2F7CFSd002832 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 02:12:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F7B4cP020723; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:11:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F7B1lJ084073; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:11:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F7B0lJ084057 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:11:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B65F81CF8E for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 01:10:59 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p122.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.124]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B6227C401 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 01:10:58 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 01:11:11 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Chief in Heraldry was: Another question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The "shield" is divided into 3 levels, the top one is called "chief", then "fess", then "base" It is interesting that they would call it chef. Surely if it was a gold border, would they not have said border of gold? Could the "band" of gold be a wrapping of gold thread or the metal gold around the top of groups of fringe that created a "band" between the fabric and the loose fringe of the shawl? Having made shawls for dancing, there are several treatments that can be done to the fringe. There is also the question of whether the fringe is being made from the main fabric threads or threads added to the main fabrics edge. If the latter, perhaps the "band" covers where the fringe attaches to the fabric. De -----Original Message----- I have one theory. In heraldic terms, chef is, I believe, the top band of the device/shield (I'm not a herald). So I think it could just simply mean a gold band. What exactly this would be made of, or how, I have no idea. Chef, in French, means "head" (as in chief or boss, or literally as the body part, such as in the word "couvre-chef" -> head covering) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 15 04:59:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2F9xtSd022548 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 04:59:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F9x3cP026548; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 02:59:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F9wulJ047796; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 02:58:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2F9wnlJ047630 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 02:58:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i2F9wXT10340.; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:58:33 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:58:33 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:58:12 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] No Window coverings, Was: Lounge Wear Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wanda wrote: >>> wandap@hevanet.com 14/03/04 03:32:03 >>> When I was in the Netherlands and Belgium several years ago I noticed the same tendency to have the curtains open at least during the day. When I visited the Netherlands 30 years ago we were told that Dutch people habitually left their curtains open after dark. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 15 05:03:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2FA3eSd022573 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 05:03:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FA2pcP026852; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 03:02:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FA2olJ049520; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 03:02:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FA2klJ049503 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 03:02:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i2FA2fT10690.; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:02:42 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:02:41 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:02:23 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bathrobes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> rmitchell@washjeff.edu 13/03/04 23:08:12 >>> Ah, but there is a difference between a bathrobe and a dressing gown. Kathleen - Is there? I thought "bathrobe" was the American term for what we British call a dressing gown. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 15 05:19:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2FAJtSd022639 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 05:19:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FAJFcP028067; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 03:19:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FAJDlJ055832; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 03:19:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FAJClJ055822 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 03:19:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i2FAJBT12485.; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:19:11 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:19:11 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:18:48 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I watched "Gunpowder, Treason and Plot" last night and thought it wasn't too bad (all the Elizabethan experts will probably disagree). However, the author did say he had taken some liberties with historical fact, but I wondered why he had left out some of the most dramatic elements of the story. It's well known that Mary was heavily pregnant at the time of Rizzio's murder, but here she only announced her pregnancy some time later, after a good deal of galloping about on horseback. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 15 11:24:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2FGOFSd024598 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:24:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FGMwcP020973; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:22:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FGMilJ025528; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:22:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from natsmtp01.rzone.de (natsmtp01.rzone.de [81.169.145.166]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FGMdlJ025481 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:22:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sabine@filmkostueme.de) Received: from hatchling (pD95147BA.dip.t-dialin.net [217.81.71.186]) by post.webmailer.de (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2FFa8FU017402 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:36:08 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <016501c40aa3$4f66ca20$ba4751d9@hatchling> From: "Sabine Pothmann" To: Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:32:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Searching for pictures of a gown in a finnish museum... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Good afternoon from Germany all together, I recently stumbled over a picture of a fabulous bustle gown. See it here: http://www.nba.fi/fi/skm_tiedotusvalineille_kuvat second image down, Baroness Leonie Doubitsky, née Rehbinder's silver-grey bustle gown. Apparently, this gown is in the "Museovirasto" in Helsinki, shown in an exhibit called "Naisten juhlaa" (Women in Gala, 7.1.-9.5.2004) . My question now: Is, by chance, anyone here on this list who visited this exhibit and took more pictures of this wonderful gown? Or will someone visit this exhibit and would take some pictures? I so fell in love with that gown, I would like to reproduce it for a historic ball to be held here in Germany... and more pictures of the original one can help a lot... and any help in getting such pictures would, of course, be highly appreciated. Best wishes, Sabine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 15 11:48:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2FGmTSd024768 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:48:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FGlRcP023715; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:47:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FGlNlJ044616; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:47:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FGl2lJ044329 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:47:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2004031516464701200hon11e>; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:46:47 +0000 Message-ID: <4055DE01.4030108@fenris.net> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:46:57 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bathrobes References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: > > >>>>rmitchell@washjeff.edu 13/03/04 23:08:12 >>> >>>> >>>> >Ah, but there is a difference between a bathrobe and a dressing gown. >Kathleen >- >Is there? I thought "bathrobe" was the American term for what we >British call a dressing gown. > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby > > In my corner of the US (which is really still Michigan, even though I live in California now) a bathrobe is either what you wear instead of streaking from the shower or it is something you wear over your pajamas for extra warmth. I have one garment that serves both purposes. I call it a bathrobe. When I hear 'dressing gown' I think of something that people in the past wore around the house (esp. in old movies) instead of getting all the way dressed. I don't think of it as a current term. liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 15 13:43:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2FIhESd029702 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:43:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FIgFcP007007; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:42:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FIg9lJ034209; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:42:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2FIg6lJ034160 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:42:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kendra@tweedlebop.com) Received: from unknown (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@64.175.40.98 with login) by smtp811.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2004 18:36:47 -0000 Message-ID: <003f01c40abc$781e2f30$0202a8c0@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <016501c40aa3$4f66ca20$ba4751d9@hatchling> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pictures of a gown in a finnish museum... Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:36:45 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You might try writing the museum to find out if any photos of the gown have been published in any books or catalogs. Museums also sometimes have image departments that will sell you slides of items from their collections. That dress is gorgeous! - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 15 14:40:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2FJeFSd029950 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:40:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FJdLcP013506; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:39:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FJdElJ077600; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:39:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FJd9lJ077568 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:39:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.116]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B2son-0005fM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 06:11:49 -0800 Received: from 209-165-45-047.jps.net ([209.165.45.47] helo=pavilion) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B2som-0006M8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 06:11:48 -0800 Message-ID: <000901c40a99$13655aa0$2f2da5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002b01c40379$bc561220$6a01a8c0@SG01><20040306153148.66304.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> <1099.24.4.69.40.1079321481.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] problem with my post Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 06:23:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Diana, I don't think this list allows attachments. Can you post it to an orpan page in www.renaissancefabrics.net. I'd be interested in seeing them. Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 7:31 PM Subject: [h-cost] problem with my post > Hello list, > > I wrote an e-mail earlier today and sent some pictures as attachments. I > haven't seen my post come up....is sending pictures bad? Does a moderator > have to approve of them before the post comes up or did it go into > electronic wasteland? > > I don't have a website that I can point people to so all I could do was > send pictures along with the e-mail. Does anybody have an idea on how I > could still let the group see the pictures if I can't send them with my > e-mail? > > BTW, the post is regarding buttoned/cotehardie sleeves and I took a > picture of my pattern, a finished sleeve, and a statue with buttoned > sleeves as reference. > > Thanks! > > Diana > > > -- > Diana Habra > www.renaissancefabrics.net > "Everything for the Costumer" > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 15 15:50:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2FKoWSd030328 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:50:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FKm7cP020329; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:48:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FKlnlJ028577; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:47:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out008.verizon.net (out008pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FKlhlJ028528 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:47:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp ([4.62.21.200]) by out008.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040315204743.JBIX27801.out008.verizon.net@brandyscomp>; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:47:43 -0600 Message-ID: <001101c40ace$c43d50f0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> From: "Brandy Deming" To: "SCA Costumes" , "Historic Costume List" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:47:42 -0800 Organization: Better Times for Small Business MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out008.verizon.net from [4.62.21.200] at Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:47:42 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Boot Patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2FKoWSd030328 Status: RO Any one have any good leather boot patterns? brandy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 15 16:26:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2FLQiSd030491 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:26:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FLHhcP023184; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:17:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FLHdlJ050288; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:17:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FLHWlJ050170 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:17:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2066242615 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:32:03 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40561F6A.20108@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:26:02 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boot Patterns References: <001101c40ace$c43d50f0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> In-Reply-To: <001101c40ace$c43d50f0$c8153e04@brandyscomp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Brandy Deming wrote: > Any one have any good leather boot patterns? > You might try these: http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/books/footwear.html I have the shoe 'booklet'. It's basic, but it looks workable. I bought it more for reference than anything, haven't tried my hand at leatherwork yet. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 15 17:01:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2FM1rSd030639 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:01:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FM0vcP028059; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:00:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FM0rlJ082842; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:00:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FM0olJ082764 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:00:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37.4.) id 6.1d4.1c7b0362 (25711) for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:00:41 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1d4.1c7b0362.2d878189@aol.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:00:41 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for pictures of a gown in a finnish museum... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/15/2004 1:43:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, kendra@tweedlebop.com writes: > That dress is gorgeous! > Yes, it is right good, isn't it? Also the 1850s gown....although the dress maker didn't match the plaid...which is NOT a tartan. A tartan must be the same stripes warp and weft. Still, a lov-er-ly gown...and shawl! The other dresses are worth a peek too. Great quality and large photos for downloading to your files. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 15 18:01:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2FN1gSd030851 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:01:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FN0gcP004202; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:00:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FN0blJ026650; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:00:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web61005.mail.yahoo.com (web61005.mail.yahoo.com [216.155.196.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2FN0WlJ026507 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:00:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from carolshistory3@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040315225339.88563.qmail@web61005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.107.3.126] by web61005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:53:39 PST Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:53:39 -0800 (PST) From: Carol Mitchell To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200403151901.i2FJ11lL048848@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 190 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Did anyone from this list send me a 34K attachment, or is it a virus? It says it's from indra.com Naturally I haven't opened it Carol Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 15 20:11:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G1BUSd031305 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:11:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2G1AecP015512; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:10:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2G1AXlJ006083; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:10:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes2.whowhere.com [209.202.220.219]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2G1AVlJ006026 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:10:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:10:13 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:10:13 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.65 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Is anyone going to the Bath Ball this year? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I've decided to treat myself to something fun so I decided to go to the Bath ball, now that I am in this country. http://www.bathminuetcompany.freeserve.co.uk/ Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else is going this year? Bjarne? Stevie? I was hoping that there might be someone I know from H-Costume...of course I have to start my outfit as soon as I can find some fabric.... I hope someone is going. Also can someone recommend a nice but inexpensive B&B in Bath? Cheers, Danielle Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 15 21:22:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G2MNSd031539 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:22:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2G2KgcP020006; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:20:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2G2KblJ040692; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:20:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20723.mail.yahoo.com (web20723.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2G2KZlJ040665 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:20:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040316022033.90488.qmail@web20723.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.237.165.142] by web20723.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:20:33 PST Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:20:33 -0800 (PST) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chief in Heraldry was: Another question To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- otsisto wrote: > The "shield" is divided into 3 levels, the top one > is called "chief", > It is interesting that they would call it chef. > Surely if it was a gold > border, would they not have said border of gold? It's fairly common to refer to the attaching part of a fringe as the head of the fringe, iirc. Ann in CT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 15 22:43:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G3hkSd031811 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:43:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2G3dtcP024367; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:39:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2G3drlJ077499; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:39:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2G3dflJ077412 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:39:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a216.in-tch.com [66.62.107.16]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i2G3Gh428923 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:16:43 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <405677C1.4050107@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:42:57 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is anyone going to the Bath Ball this year? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've gotten the impression that Bjarne is going. I'd love to attend sometime, as I didn't get to see the Assembly Rooms when I was in Bath ;o( Sorry I can't recommend a B&B...we stayed with friends who were locals. *sigh* Bath is so beautiful.... --sue, wishing for another color outside her window besides "Montana in March".... Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > Greetings, > > I've decided to treat myself to something fun so I decided to go to > the Bath ball, now that I am in this country. > http://www.bathminuetcompany.freeserve.co.uk/ > > Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else is going this year? Bjarne? > Stevie? I was hoping that there might be someone I know from > H-Costume...of course I have to start my outfit as soon as I can find > some fabric.... I hope someone is going. Also can someone > recommend a nice but inexpensive B&B in Bath? > > Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 15 23:09:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G49RSd031906 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:09:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2G48ncP026161; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:08:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2G48mlJ090485; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:08:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay8-f90.bay8.hotmail.com [64.4.27.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2G48jlJ090429 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:08:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caithlinn@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:51:24 -0800 Received: from 130.102.116.207 by by8fd.bay8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 03:51:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [130.102.116.207] X-Originating-Email: [caithlinn@hotmail.com] X-Sender: caithlinn@hotmail.com From: "Cornelia Muncke" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:51:24 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2004 03:51:24.0382 (UTC) FILETIME=[F3A9CFE0:01C40B09] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 14th cent surcote/dress question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi everyone, I am a new subscriber to your list, but I have used the archives for a long time to gain from your excellent expertise in some things. Now I have joined the list, since I have a specific question and I know the people who could possibly answer this question are on this list. I am looking into open surcotes in the 14th century. I have recently come across the images of Blanche de Valois and Joanna von Pfirt (statues on the facade of the Stefansdom in Vienna, ~1365). Both ladies appear to wear a very interesting garment, which could be anything between an embroidered dress and an open surcote worn over a kirtle/supportive layer, except for the fact that their heavily ornamented belt seems to go over the entire dress, not under as you would expect if it was an open surcote. Stella Mary Newton describes these dresses as one layer, with a gathered skirt and a seam which is hidden by the belt. The image of Joanna von Pfirt's statue clearly shows the extended "embroidery/plastron decoration?" of the bodice below the belt, something I would expect from an open surcote (i.e. statue of Jeanne de Bourbon). Does anyone have an opinion or more information on those dresses (Blanche's statue is rather worn)? Or has seen the statues in person and could shed some light on the problem? I'd be grateful for any information or suggestions. Thanks, Caithlinn _________________________________________________________________ What's your house worth? Click here to find out: http://www.ninemsn.realestate.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 00:56:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G5uISd032206 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:56:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2G5tacP002650; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:55:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2G5tTlJ036903; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:55:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2G5tQlJ036871 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:55:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 20833 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2004 05:55:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2004 05:55:26 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:55:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1074.24.4.69.40.1079416526.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:55:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is anyone going to the Bath Ball this year? From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Greetings, > > I've decided to treat myself to something fun so I decided to go to the > Bath ball, now that I am in this country. > http://www.bathminuetcompany.freeserve.co.uk/ > > Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else is going this year? Bjarne? > Stevie? I was hoping that there might be someone I know from > H-Costume...of course I have to start my outfit as soon as I can find some > fabric.... I hope someone is going. Also can someone recommend a nice > but inexpensive B&B in Bath? Can't help with going to the dance (I'm on the wrong side of the pond) but I can help with the B & B. When I was there 4-ish years ago, I stayed at a place called Ashley House. It is at 8 Pulteney Gardens in Bath and was a short walk from the downtown area. The people were very nice and at the time I went it was 40 pounds for a double occupancy room which I found pretty reasonable. Their telephone is (01225) 425027 (no, I am not that good at memorizing, I just saved their business card). I am very jealous that you get to go to this event because it sounds absolutely fabulouse! Have fun! Diana -- Diana Habra www.renaissancefabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 01:05:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G650Sd032252 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:05:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2G63ncP003055; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:03:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2G63mlJ040351; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:03:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2G63jlJ040331 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:03:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 22411 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2004 06:03:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2004 06:03:45 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:03:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1086.24.4.69.40.1079417025.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <000901c40a99$13655aa0$2f2da5d1@pavilion> References: <002b01c40379$bc561220$6a01a8c0@SG01><20040306153148.66304.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com><1099.24.4.69.40.1079321481.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <000901c40a99$13655aa0$2f2da5d1@pavilion> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:03:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] problem with my post From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Diana, > > I don't think this list allows attachments. Can you post it to an orpan > page in www.renaissancefabrics.net. I'd be interested in seeing them. > > Lisa Sinervo > Dear List, I didn't program my own website so I have no idea how to do that :~< But I did send the message to Lisa V and Lisa S to their home e-mail accounts. I have reproduced the text of my message below and if anyone else would like me to send them the pictures, e-mail me at dch@inreach.com. *********** Hello list, I am sorry for the less-than-timely response to this but my scanner wasn't working. Now that it is, I would like to share my version of buttoned sleeves or what I call the "cotehardie sleeve". I struggled with how to make these for years and then I saw a picture in "The Visual History of Costume" (a great book, btw) that changed how I looked at the sleeves. (see picture #1) What I saw was that there wasn't a seam that continued up from where the buttoned area ended. This stumped me because I had always thought that the sleeves had a seam that ran from halfway down the back of the armsceye to the outer part of the wrist and the buttons ran along the seam. Instead, however, I tried using a regular sleeve pattern with a triangular opening at the outer wrist area. (see picture #2) I used a facing in the opening and put buttons and button holes over the double layer of fabric. The sleeves were tight on the lower arm and loose on the upper arm so that you could still move your arms. (see picture #3 for an example) These sleeves don't have to be cut on the bias to work and there is no real fanciness that needs to happen. Take a look and give it a try. And I hope it works as well for you as it does for me. Diana -- Diana Habra www.renaissancefabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 01:19:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G6JjSd032328 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:19:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2G6J0cP003819; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2G6IvlJ046378; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:18:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2G6IrlJ046347 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:18:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06751 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:49:55 -0600 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:49:55 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] problem with my post In-Reply-To: <1086.24.4.69.40.1079417025.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, Diana Habra wrote: > But I did send the message to Lisa V and Lisa S to their home e-mail > accounts. I have reproduced the text of my message below and if > anyone else would like me to send them the pictures, e-mail me at > dch@inreach.com. I'd like to see the pix but would prefer not to get attachments with them. Is there someone on the list who would be willing to post them for the rest of us to see? > What I saw was that there wasn't a seam that continued up from where > the buttoned area ended. This stumped me because I had always thought > that the sleeves had a seam that ran from halfway down the back of the > armsceye to the outer part of the wrist and the buttons ran along the > seam. It's worth noting that art from this period is neither scrupulous nor consistent about indicating seams. However, I also like the idea of a solid piece at the outside of the upper arm, and so I too cut the sleeve so that it is solid at the top and splits to create the button opening along the outside of the arm, while having a full-length seam along the inside of the arm. I expect there's more than one way to do these sleeves, and most likely it was done in more than one way in the period. I've done two or three sleeves that work and are probably all consistent with the minimal amount of evidence we have, yet are all quite different from one another. (Anyone who saw me in Springfield this past weekend: My model, Emilysue, was wearing a dress I made about 15 years ago; it had a completely different sleeve cut from the one on my own dress, which has the cut I prefer at the moment. But I think from a distance they were both similar in look.) I look forward to seeing Diana's version. I wouldn't be surprised if it's yet another approach I haven't stumbled on myself yet. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 06:16:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GBGCSd027687 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:16:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GBFWcP017224; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 04:15:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GBFPlJ063163; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 04:15:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [194.63.250.95]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GBFLlK063139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 04:15:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ingridgs@techarea.net) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [127.0.0.1]) by decna.com (8.12.11.Beta0/8.12.11.Beta0/Debian-1) with ESMTP id i2GBLos9004469; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:21:50 +0100 Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by decna.com (8.12.11.Beta0/8.12.11.Beta0/Debian-1) with ESMTP id i2GBLox9004465; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:21:50 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: decna.com: ingridgs owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:21:50 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= X-X-Sender: ingridgs@decna.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] problem with my post In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Decna-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, Robin Netherton wrote: > On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, Diana Habra wrote: > > But I did send the message to Lisa V and Lisa S to their home e-mail > > accounts. I have reproduced the text of my message below and if > > anyone else would like me to send them the pictures, e-mail me at > > dch@inreach.com. > > I'd like to see the pix but would prefer not to get attachments with them. > Is there someone on the list who would be willing to post them for the > rest of us to see? Sure, no problem! Diana, if you send me the pics (ingridgs@techarea.net), I'll be happy to make them available. :) Ingrid -- This email has been scanned for viruses & spam by Decna as - www.decna.no Denne E-post er sjekket for virus & spam av Decna as - www.decna.no _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 09:53:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GEroSd028504 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:53:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GEr5cP028154; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:53:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GEqvlJ053766; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:52:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2GEqmlJ053677 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:52:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040316145246.53364.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:52:46 PST Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:52:46 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Calling Margo! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry for the 'bandwidth'--but I just realized that I seem to have misplaced the URL to order a pattern from Margo. Also, does anyone know if Medieval Miscelliania put out a pattern of german mens' patterns to go along with the german's womans that it put out? Many thanks--- Albra Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 10:01:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GF1RSd028536 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:01:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GF0bcP028770; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:00:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GF0alJ058199; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:00:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m19.mx.aol.com (imo-m19.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GF0IlJ057938 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:00:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.15c.2f9b4990 (4426) for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:59:59 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <15c.2f9b4990.2d88706f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:59:59 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calling Margo! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/16/2004 8:54:02 AM Central Standard Time, albrakat7@yahoo.com writes: Sorry for the 'bandwidth'--but I just realized that I seem to have misplaced the URL to order a pattern from Margo. Also, does anyone know if Medieval Miscelliania put out a pattern of german mens' patterns to go along with the german's womans that it put out? Many thanks--- Albra www.margospatterns.com I don't know about MM's german patterns, but Margo's Elizabethan Man patterns are fabulous! -Tiff "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 10:01:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GF1rSd028539 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:01:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GF11cP028807; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GF11lJ058415; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:01:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GF0wlJ058337 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:00:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0056.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.80.57]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30749BEC3E for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:00:47 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4057169F.8070405@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:00:47 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pictures Dickens X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I finally have some pictures of the Dickens evenr I went to. The one in the red dress is me. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Dickens/Dickens.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 10:05:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GF5bSd028549 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:05:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GF4ucP029243; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:04:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GF4tlJ060672; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:04:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GF4plJ060614 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:04:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from IceGirlNIN@aol.com) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.162.2ce5beb1 (4254) for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:59:34 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <162.2ce5beb1.2d887055@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:59:33 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calling Margo! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5006 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have no idea about the goings-on at Medieval Miscellania, but Margo's website is www.margospatterns.com Christine In a message dated 3/16/2004 9:53:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, albrakat7@yahoo.com writes: Sorry for the 'bandwidth'--but I just realized that I seem to have misplaced the URL to order a pattern from Margo. Also, does anyone know if Medieval Miscelliania put out a pattern of german mens' patterns to go along with the german's womans that it put out? Many thanks--- Albra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 10:17:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GFHNSd028585 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:17:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GFGacP000221; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:16:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GFGWlJ067707; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:16:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9407.mail.yahoo.com (web9407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2GFGRlJ067652 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:16:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040316151625.76601.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:16:25 PST Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:16:25 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calling Margo! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <15c.2f9b4990.2d88706f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks very much, both or you! Albra Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/16/2004 8:54:02 AM Central Standard Time, albrakat7@yahoo.com writes: Sorry for the 'bandwidth'--but I just realized that I seem to have misplaced the URL to order a pattern from Margo. Also, does anyone know if Medieval Miscelliania put out a pattern of german mens' patterns to go along with the german's womans that it put out? Many thanks--- Albra www.margospatterns.com I don't know about MM's german patterns, but Margo's Elizabethan Man patterns are fabulous! -Tiff "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 10:37:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GFbXSd028669 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:37:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GFafcP001879; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:36:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GFadlJ080296; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:36:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9403.mail.yahoo.com (web9403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2GFaYlJ080233 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:36:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040316153633.63253.qmail@web9403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:36:33 PST Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:36:33 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures Dickens To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4057169F.8070405@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Your whole ensemble looks wonderful, Deredere! Albra Deredere Galbraith wrote: Hi, I finally have some pictures of the Dickens evenr I went to. The one in the red dress is me. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Dickens/Dickens.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 10:41:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GFf3Sd028680 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:41:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GFZXcP001748; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:35:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GFZVlJ079504; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:35:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav26.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GFZJlJ079369 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:35:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:35:13 -0800 Received: from 24.58.109.191 by bay1-dav26.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:35:13 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.109.191] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <15c.2f9b4990.2d88706f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calling Margo! Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:35:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2004 15:35:13.0920 (UTC) FILETIME=[466DF000:01C40B6C] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I sell the PP on my site and no there is no matching pattern. And so everyone is aware there most likely never will be. MM has no plans for the PP line because they concentrate so heavily on their tent and pavilion sales and the PP doesn't interest them anymore. ============================= Now open! http://kristalori.com ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calling Margo! > In a message dated 3/16/2004 8:54:02 AM Central Standard Time, > albrakat7@yahoo.com writes: > Sorry for the 'bandwidth'--but I just realized that I seem to have misplaced > the URL to order a pattern from Margo. > Also, does anyone know if Medieval Miscelliania put out a pattern of german > mens' patterns to go along with the german's womans that it put out? > Many thanks--- > Albra > > > www.margospatterns.com > > I don't know about MM's german patterns, but Margo's Elizabethan Man patterns > are fabulous! > > -Tiff > "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 10:41:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GFfSSd028685 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:41:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GFbPcP001979; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:37:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GFbOlJ080832; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:37:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav20.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GFb6lJ080566 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:37:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:36:59 -0800 Received: from 24.58.109.191 by bay1-dav20.adinternal.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:36:58 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.109.191] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <15c.2f9b4990.2d88706f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calling Margo! Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:37:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2004 15:36:59.0016 (UTC) FILETIME=[85125080:01C40B6C] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh and MM is at Gulf War. so they won't answer any emails for a bit. ============================= Now open! http://kristalori.com ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calling Margo! > In a message dated 3/16/2004 8:54:02 AM Central Standard Time, > albrakat7@yahoo.com writes: > Sorry for the 'bandwidth'--but I just realized that I seem to have misplaced > the URL to order a pattern from Margo. > Also, does anyone know if Medieval Miscelliania put out a pattern of german > mens' patterns to go along with the german's womans that it put out? > Many thanks--- > Albra > > > www.margospatterns.com > > I don't know about MM's german patterns, but Margo's Elizabethan Man patterns > are fabulous! > > -Tiff > "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 11:08:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GG8FSd028793 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:08:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GG7QcP004909; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:07:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GG7NlJ002146; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:07:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from juanite.fhcrc.org (juanite.fhcrc.org [140.107.42.127]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GG7HlK001986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:07:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gawne@mac.com) Received: from mazzite.fhcrc.org (mazzite.fhcrc.org [140.107.152.11]) by juanite.fhcrc.org (8.12.7/8.12.7/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id i2GFdDpS002677 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:39:15 -0800 Received: from e500a.fhcrc.org (e500a.fhcrc.org [140.107.42.21]) by mazzite.fhcrc.org (8.12.7/8.12.7/SuSE Linux 0.6) with SMTP id i2GFd5Lt022567 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:39:05 -0800 Received: from jarlite.fhcrc.org(140.107.42.11) by e500a.fhcrc.org via csmap id 9822; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:38:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.fhcrc.org (smtp.fhcrc.org [140.107.42.30]) by jarlite.fhcrc.org (8.12.7/8.12.7/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id i2GFd4nU026588 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:39:04 -0800 Received: from UROPORTABLE ([140.107.73.213]) by smtp.fhcrc.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i2GFd4621306 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:39:04 -0800 Message-ID: <00a601c40b6d$201b5720$d5496b8c@UROPORTABLE> From: "Agnes Gawne" To: References: <200403161501.i2GF1ZlL058758@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:41:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-FHCRC: INTERNAL X-PMX-Version: 4.5.0.90627, Antispam-Core: 4.0.4.92622, Antispam-Data: 2004.3.15.94359 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bath Ball - accomodations X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have never attended the Ball but I did stay at a nice B&B in Bath that would be handy to the ball... Brock House B&B 32 Brock Street Bath BA1 2LN Tel 011 44 1225 338374 Fax 011 44 1225 334245 http://www.brocksguesthouse.co.uk/ It is on the street that connects the Royal Circus to the Royal Crescent - the assembly rooms are just off the Royal Crescent so it would be easy walking distance to the ball. Agnes > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:10:13 0000 > From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" > Subject: [h-cost] Is anyone going to the Bath Ball this year? > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Greetings, > > I've decided to treat myself to something fun so I decided to go to the Bath ball, now that I am in this country. http://www.bathminuetcompany.freeserve.co.uk/ > > Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else is going this year? Bjarne? Stevie? I was hoping that there might be someone I know from H-Costume...of course I have to start my outfit as soon as I can find some fabric.... I hope someone is going. Also can someone recommend a nice but inexpensive B&B in Bath? > > Cheers, > Danielle > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 11:28:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GGS6Sd028871 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:28:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GGRNcP006834; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:27:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GGRMlJ017059; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:27:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f116.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GGRDlJ016934 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:27:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:09:38 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:09:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:09:38 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2004 16:09:38.0375 (UTC) FILETIME=[14F0C570:01C40B71] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Boot Patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Brandy Deming" >Any one have any good leather boot patterns? What sort of boots are you looking for? Marc _________________________________________________________________ Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time Offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 12:05:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GH5WSd029014 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:05:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GH2pcP010393; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:02:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GH2llJ043979; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:02:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GH2blJ043811 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:02:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7becf.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.207]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 29D8D5EE054 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:02:28 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001301c40b78$7cc4a660$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:02:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] =?iso-8859-1?q?spring_party_at_Gustaf=27s_Sk=E5l=2E?= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2GH5WSd029014 Status: RO Hi! Here are the first pictures from the spring party i went to in Stockholm this weekend. More to come soon! http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/spring_party_for_gustafs1.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 12:09:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GH9tSd029034 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:09:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GH9CcP011022; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:09:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GH98lJ048830; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:09:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GH95lJ048725 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:09:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (pcp03026555pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.37.232.18]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i2GH8lJ9002572 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:08:56 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040315171735.060f5008@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:19:44 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Bog dress & American colonies (OT)/Digest, Vol 3, Issue 178 In-Reply-To: <200403112112.i2BLCmbm021915@net.indra.com> References: <200403112112.i2BLCmbm021915@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:12 PM 3/11/2004, Arian wrote: >There is a new theory that the Phoenicians were in "Americas" before Madoc. >In that some archeologist believe that King Solomon's gold mines were >located in Haiti and not Africa. >Read a long article on how the length of time from Haiti to Jerusalem >matched the records, the finding of old gold mines and other thing to prove >their theory. I'm not familiar with the Book of Mormon or other LDS sacred writings, but how do the dates on these compare to the dates they purport for their prophets and escapees landing in the New World? Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 12:10:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GHAgSd029042 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:10:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GH9wcP011066; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:09:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GH9vlJ049468; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:09:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GH9ilJ049200 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:09:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (pcp03026555pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.37.232.18]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i2GH9SuL002929 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:09:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040316114232.02f77018@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:05:49 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell In-Reply-To: <200403151647.i2FGlilK044898@net.indra.com> References: <200403151647.i2FGlilK044898@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Housecoats, bathrobes, dressing gowns, loungewear... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:02:23 +0000, Kate Bunting wrote: >Ah, but there is a difference between a bathrobe and a dressing gown. >Kathleen >- >Is there? I thought "bathrobe" was the American term for what we >British call a dressing gown. A "bath robe" is often just that -- a terrycloth kimono-style robe that you wear in, or going to-and-from, the bathroom, either because you expect to get your face wet (washing it, removing makeup, etc.) and might accidentally splash your clothes, or because you're going in to shower and will be too damp to dress before leaving the bathroom, or because you don't use a towel after showering. A "housecoat" or "house robe" is often made of prettier material. It's main functions are (1) warmth in winter and (2) to hide one's nightclothes (or lack thereof) while lounging around the house, or in case one has to answer the door while not dressed (or otherwise wearing only underwear or nightclothes). In some areas of the United States, "housecoat", "house robe", and "bathrobe" all refer to a "house robe". Also in some areas of the US, "housecoat" or "house robe" refers to an inexpensive, loose-fitting dress-like or coat-like garment worn primarily for doing housework in and/or working in a garden where the neighbors are unlikely to see you... though some "house dresses" (also sometimes synonymous) are nice enough that you can even wear them sitting out on the front porch (where the neighbors *are* likely to see you). This nicer sort of "house dress" often doubles as casual clothing. When I hear the term "dressing gown" we tend to think of rich men in "smoking robes" with nothing underneath, or women who want to step out of bed into *something* en route to their dressing rooms to get dressed. I tend to associate these terms with social classes that don't have to worry about "house dresses" because there are servants to do the housework for them. "Loungewear" as used in the US today refers to very pretty, unstructured garments that *can* be used to wear around the house, but are often designed with the idea of being relatively undressed while entertaining at home. They're usually structured a little more like sportswear, activewear, or exercise clothing than "house robes" are, with the exception of the "hostess gown" which is more like a very fancy "house robe". "Loungewear" can also be worn at breakfast and around the house when entertaining guests who have stayed overnight or who are staying for an extended period of time. I think the evolution of "sportswear" into "casual attire" may have to do with our society adapting the most casual possible attire to a number of social situations (consider how social a golf course/club can be, or a polo club, or a tennis club...) Without a locker room and/or place to shower and change, one has to wear one's specialized sports attire to and from the leisure-sporting venue -- hence, in the streets, and from there, to general acceptance. OTOH, as the sports have evolved and become competitive, and as the theory behind high performance in each sport has evolved, so has the attire for that sport. (Consider how "new" padded cycling shorts and tight-fitting jerseys with the pockets in *back* were 25 years ago -- or how quickly CoolMax has pervaded the performance sports attire market.) Because the garments and "look" associated with "sportswear" are already "set" to some degree in the public eye, new marketing terms evolve to refer to the more specialized, higher performance garments. "Active sportwear" -- later "activewear" was probably the first of these, referring to casual clothes that will permit the free movement of leisure-sporting activities done at leisurely paces. I think the current terms are "performance sportswear" and "performance activewear", with the latest-and-greatest designs for a sport known as "technical" garments (these are usually made of high-performance fibers such as CoolMax and its clones, e.g., Dri-Fit.) OK, now that I've confused the issue even further... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 12:10:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GHAqSd029045 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:10:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GHAAcP011093; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:10:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GHA7lJ049628; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:10:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GH9ilJ049202 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:09:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (pcp03026555pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.37.232.18]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i2GH9MGc002885 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:09:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040316092245.02f6bfb0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:09:10 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell In-Reply-To: <200403141340.i2EDexlK034277@net.indra.com> References: <200403141340.i2EDexlK034277@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pardessus... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:58:40 -0600, Dawn wrote: >For example, I had no idea what a 'pardessus' was until I found a French >clothing catalog with a man's overcoat listed under that term. I think it >was actually used as a woman's overcoat in period, but none of my English >sources even had the word listed. Literally meaning "goes above/over", today I believe it refers specifically to a raincoat, with the usual "overcoat" being referred to as "manteau". Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 12:19:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GHJASd029065 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:19:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GH3icP010497; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:03:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GH3glJ044710; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:03:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GH3blJ044635 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:03:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7becf.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.207]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8423447FE01 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:03:35 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001c01c40b78$a4df1180$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:03:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bath Ball X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2GHJASd029065 Status: RO Hi, I definately am going to the Bath Ball and have lots of fun, i have already the flight tickets, but i also have to find some acomodations. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 12:29:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GHTPSd029119 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:29:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GHSZcP012997; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:28:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GHSUlJ064075; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:28:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GHSRlJ063980 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:28:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Kitsune242@aol.com) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.6a.3cd9f75b (16109) for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:23:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m11.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.139]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v98.11) with ESMTP id MAILINID121-3eed405737f4b3; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:23:00 -0500 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:23:00 -0500 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0D09B6E0.0BB7874A.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Twill or Brushed Denim X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings and Salutations We often have people asking about Silk Sources or Wool sources, but I am looking for something different. Twill or Brushed Denim to be exact. I am looking for a good source online for a variety of colors. I am tired of taupe, olive, blue and black. If you have any suggestions, I would appreciate it. Thanks! Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 12:40:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GHeQSd029202 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:40:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GHdZcP014188; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:39:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GHdTlJ072491; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:39:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GHdQlJ072394 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:39:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABBB1B370062; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:39:07 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB74286009E; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:37:56 -0600 Message-ID: <00d901c40b7d$62672180$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200403151647.i2FGlilK044898@net.indra.com> <6.0.0.22.0.20040316114232.02f77018@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:37:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sportswear & Patou X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The term sports wear turned into sportswear in the 1920s with the designer Patou. He was designing clothing for a famous tennis star. The general public loved her tennis outfits and Patou started designing the tennis outfits for the general public. From this tennis star also started the trend of wearing the head band with playing sports. Patou designed her a bright orange head band. After this, several of the lady sports figure wanted Patou to design for them. Patou is also responsible for the designer label on the outside of garment. He was the first designer to do this. He would have his initials embroidered on the outside of his sportswear. Patou also was the first designer to mass market his clothing to the general public. There is a wonderful book that is out of print about Patou and his accomplishments. He was a great marketing genius. I picked my book up on eBay for $5. You might find it on Amazon used books. Sports wear is actually a garment to wear during sporting activities. It is sometimes referred to as a uniform or activity wear. Sportswear is a dressy casual wear in today's terms. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 13:22:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GIMcSd029391 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:22:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GIKscP019271; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:20:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GIKllJ004832; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:20:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2GIKhlJ004793 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:20:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 11084 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2004 18:20:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2004 18:20:43 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:20:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1077.24.4.69.40.1079461243.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <0D09B6E0.0BB7874A.0BD9917F@aol.com> References: <0D09B6E0.0BB7874A.0BD9917F@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:20:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Twill or Brushed Denim From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Greetings and Salutations > > We often have people asking about Silk Sources or Wool sources, but I am > looking for something different. Twill or Brushed Denim to be exact. I > am looking for a good source online for a variety of colors. I am tired > of taupe, olive, blue and black. If you have any suggestions, I would > appreciate it. > Kit, I don't have any at the moment, but I plan to carry any good twill that I can get my hands on. It is one of my favorite fabrics to sew with and as soon as I find some good stuff for a good price, I will have it on my website. So check back with me.... Diana -- Diana Habra www.renaissancefabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 14:04:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GJ48Sd029671 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:04:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GJ25cP024891; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:02:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GJ22lJ036694; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:02:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes2.whowhere.com [209.202.220.219]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2GJ18lJ035752 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:01:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:00:50 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:00:50 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bath Ball X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.66 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Bjarne, Yay! I really look forward to getting to meet you in person. I haven't found accomodation yet either. Where did you stay last year? Cheers, Danielle >Hi, >I definately am going to the Bath Ball and have lots of fun, i have already the flight tickets, but i also have to find some acomodations. > >Bjarne Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 14:05:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GJ5WSd029684 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:05:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GJ14cP024496; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:01:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GJ13lJ035753; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:01:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f24.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GIwllJ033794 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:58:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jessicastier@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:41:24 -0800 Received: from 66.75.159.37 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:41:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.75.159.37] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] X-Sender: jessicastier@hotmail.com From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:41:23 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2004 18:41:24.0052 (UTC) FILETIME=[4858D140:01C40B86] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Bog dress & American colonies (OT) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just came upon this thread so I really have no idea what has been discussed in the past. I found a crude timeline that lists the events in the Book of Mormon in relation to the birth of Christ. I know I've seen better timelines then this, but this is the only one I could find right now. http://www.mormonhaven.com/events.htm :) jessica >------------------------------ > >Message: 10 >Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:19:44 -0500 >From: Brenda Bell >Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Bog dress & American colonies (OT)/Digest, > Vol 3, Issue 178 >To: h-costume@indra.com >Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040315171735.060f5008@earthlink.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >At 04:12 PM 3/11/2004, Arian wrote: > > >There is a new theory that the Phoenicians were in "Americas" before >Madoc. > >In that some archeologist believe that King Solomon's gold mines were > >located in Haiti and not Africa. > >Read a long article on how the length of time from Haiti to Jerusalem > >matched the records, the finding of old gold mines and other thing to >prove > >their theory. > >I'm not familiar with the Book of Mormon or other LDS sacred writings, but >how do the dates on these compare to the dates they purport for their >prophets and escapees landing in the New World? > > >Brenda >webwarren@earthlink.net > _________________________________________________________________ Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 14:07:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GJ72Sd029693 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:07:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GJ6AcP025501; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:06:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GJ66lJ039603; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:06:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GJ63lJ039568 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:06:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net (firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2GI3oE12320 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:03:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-4.155.60.245.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.60.245] helo=HELENPINTO) by firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B3Iup-0002mO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:03:47 -0800 Message-ID: <012d01c40b81$05e5f5e0$f53c9b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <0D09B6E0.0BB7874A.0BD9917F@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Twill or Brushed Denim Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:03:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9eff6c6ef29fd945720f15f5109a39dfe12350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try fabric.com (link below). They currently have 100% cotton twill in spring colors. Also look at their denim page; they frequently have brushed denim. They may be getting more, since they're just starting Spring fabrics. You could also try JoAnn's; I found some there last November. Funny thing is, I'm always looking for taupe and olive and black... -Helen/Aidan http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/fabric-apparel---fashion-fabrics-twills--poplins---broadcloth-cotton-twill.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 14:08:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GJ8qSd029704 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:08:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GJ89cP025751; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:08:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GJ88lJ041162; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:08:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GJ7glJ040843 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:07:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7becf.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.207]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C703B47FEB8 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:07:38 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002801c40b89$f54966f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:07:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pictures Dickens X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2GJ8qSd029704 Status: RO Dear Deredere, Very nice to se you in victorian clothes two. Did you like the Victorian style more than the other periods you have made? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 14:20:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GJK2Sd029768 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:20:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GJJBcP026856; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:19:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GJJ7lJ048929; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:19:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [194.63.250.95]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GJJ0lK048812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:19:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ingridgs@techarea.net) Received: from decna.com (decna.com [127.0.0.1]) by decna.com (8.12.11.Beta0/8.12.11.Beta0/Debian-1) with ESMTP id i2GJPYUT022281 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:25:34 +0100 Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by decna.com (8.12.11.Beta0/8.12.11.Beta0/Debian-1) with ESMTP id i2GJPYQm022277 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:25:34 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: decna.com: ingridgs owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:25:34 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= X-X-Sender: ingridgs@decna.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Decna-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Diana's cotehardie sleeve pics X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Diana's pictures of the cotehardie sleeves are now available at http://www.techarea.net/~ingridgs/pics/dianas_pics/ . :) Ingrid -- This email has been scanned for viruses & spam by Decna as - www.decna.no Denne E-post er sjekket for virus & spam av Decna as - www.decna.no _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 14:40:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GJecSd029908 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:40:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GJdncP028956; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:39:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GJdklJ063774; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:39:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes2.whowhere.com [209.202.220.219]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2GJdblJ063633 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:39:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:39:22 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:39:22 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is anyone going to the Bath Ball this year? X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.66 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh thank you that sounds promising. Not too exorbitant...hopefully they will have space. Cheers, Danielle --------- Original Message --------- >Can't help with going to the dance (I'm on the wrong side of the pond) but >I can help with the B & B. When I was there 4-ish years ago, I stayed at >a place called Ashley House. It is at 8 Pulteney Gardens in Bath and was >a short walk from the downtown area. The people were very nice and at the >time I went it was 40 pounds for a double occupancy room which I found >pretty reasonable. Their telephone is (01225) 425027 (no, I am not that >good at memorizing, I just saved their business card). > >I am very jealous that you get to go to this event because it sounds >absolutely fabulouse! Have fun! > >Diana > >-- >Diana Habra >www.renaissancefabrics.net >"Everything for the Costumer" Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 14:41:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GJfvSd029916 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:41:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GJfFcP029072; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:41:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GJf7lJ064811; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:41:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GJdmlJ063819 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:39:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7becf.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.207]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7348C2628BA for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:39:34 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004b01c40b8e$6d422710$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bath Ball Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:39:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Danielle, I have not desided yeat, but i was thinking about Carfax Hotel. Mostly because i want to stay as close to the ball as possible so i can walk my way home to the hotel. But if you go to this place: http://www.visitbath.co.uk/ You can find many places. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 15:11:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GKBkSd030084 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:11:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GKAwcP002136; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:10:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GKArlJ086042; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:10:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GKAplJ085968 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:10:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0056.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.80.57]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6892BEFE0 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:10:45 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <40575F45.7090908@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:10:45 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures Dickens References: <002801c40b89$f54966f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I like 15th, 16th, 18th and 19th century clothing. I am working on a 18th century corset right now. What I find very strange in the Victorian dress, are the seams. The bodice is lined but you can still see the raw edges on de inside of bodice. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Victorian/Victorian.html Nice part about 19th century costumes is that there are more original patterns. But I don't think there is a style I like most. At least not yet. Greetings, Deredere Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Dear Deredere, >Very nice to se you in victorian clothes two. Did you like the Victorian style more than the other periods you have made? > >Bjarne > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 15:15:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GKF9Sd030142 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:15:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GIwkcP024036; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:58:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GIwglJ033799; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:58:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GIwDlJ033443 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:58:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B3JlU-000GKi-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:58:12 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:46:48 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Like you, I didn't think the costuming was bad - certainly not distracting for someone with an interest but not a detailed knowledge of that particular century. I wasn't much impressed with the drama - it seemed to romp through key events with very little to join them together, certainly at the beginning. But I hadn't realised until it was introduced that it was written by Jimmy McGovern. He's not exactly known for his deferential approach to authority, so you can imagine he certainly wasn't pressing for beauty and accuracy in the costumes. Authentic grime and gore, possibly. Jean Kate M Bunting wrote >Well, I watched "Gunpowder, Treason and Plot" last night and thought it >wasn't too bad (all the Elizabethan experts will probably disagree). >However, the author did say he had taken some liberties with historical >fact, but I wondered why he had left out some of the most dramatic >elements of the story. It's well known that Mary was heavily pregnant at >the time of Rizzio's murder, but here she only announced her pregnancy >some time later, after a good deal of galloping about on horseback. > > > > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 15:16:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GKGCSd030169 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:16:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GIwNcP023991; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:58:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GIwJlJ033491; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:58:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GIwDlJ033442 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:58:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B3JlU-000GKj-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:58:12 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:51:16 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bathrobes References: <4055DE01.4030108@fenris.net> In-Reply-To: <4055DE01.4030108@fenris.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can recognise a difference in that a bathrobe is something you can wear when wet, ie, probably towelling, and a dressing gown you probably wouldn't. But dressing gown is still current here for something worn over pajamas for extra warmth. Fabric and construction (button-up or kimono-style) just seems to vary as fashion. Jean Elizabeth Young wrote >Kate M Bunting wrote: > >> >>>>>rmitchell@washjeff.edu 13/03/04 23:08:12 >>> >>>>> >>Ah, but there is a difference between a bathrobe and a dressing gown. >>Kathleen >>- >>Is there? I thought "bathrobe" was the American term for what we >>British call a dressing gown. >> >>Kate Bunting >>Library, University of Derby >> >In my corner of the US (which is really still Michigan, even though I >live in California now) a bathrobe is either what you wear instead of >streaking from the shower or it is something you wear over your pajamas >for extra warmth. I have one garment that serves both purposes. I call >it a bathrobe. >When I hear 'dressing gown' I think of something that people in the >past wore around the house (esp. in old movies) instead of getting all >the way dressed. I don't think of it as a current term. > >liz young > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 15:52:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GKqcSd030382 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:52:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GKpmcP006303; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:51:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GKpdlJ016284; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:51:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f101.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GKpVlJ016145 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:51:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:34:09 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:34:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:34:09 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2004 20:34:09.0899 (UTC) FILETIME=[091B23B0:01C40B96] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: Diffusionism (was Bog dress & American colonies) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had almost talked myself out of not posting on this topic, until I got this last digest. Everyone, just go about your business, talk about costuming. Unfortunately, this is one of my long term button topics. I promise - I'll try to be nice. >From: Brenda Bell >>[Someone Else] >>There is a new theory that the Phoenicians were in "Americas" before >>Madoc. It's not a new speculation. People have been speculating about such visits for well over 30 years. >>In that some archeologist believe that King Solomon's gold mines were >>located in Haiti and not Africa. Read a long article on how the length of >>time from Haiti to Jerusalem matched the records, the finding of old gold >>mines and other thing to prove their theory. Really. You wouldn't happen to have the citation for the article? I'd much rather dissect it than hear about it -- when I dispute with someone about something like this that they are telling me about, it can look too much like flaming. I'd rather attack the article. (this wouldn't happen to be that drivel by Dankenbring woud it?) >I'm not familiar with the Book of Mormon or other LDS sacred writings, but >how do the dates on these compare to the dates they purport for their >prophets and escapees landing in the New World? I'm sure the two sets of dates would blend just fine, if someone wanted to do that -- I believe that Lehi and the lost tribes are supposed to have left Israel around 600-640 BCE. The Phoenicians had been plying the seas for centuries before this period (and supposedly making transatlantic crossings regularly. Kings Solomon's Mines WERE in Peru or Haiti or wherever, at a 1000 BCE, then getting the lost tribes shipped over wouldn't have been any big deal. Pop 'em over on the _Queen of Sheba II_ and the regular transatlantic runs... Marc _________________________________________________________________ One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – download MSN Toolbar now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 16:00:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GL0cSd030425 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:00:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GKZScP004604; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:35:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GKZNlJ004430; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:35:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GKZLlJ004401 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:35:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BC131D0C4 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:35:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p510.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.213.3]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2121CC4E3 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:35:20 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Calling Margo! Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:35:37 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <20040316145246.53364.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am not sure but I vaguely remember MM used to have a Landsknecht pattern long ago ( could be remembering another company) If you were wanting Landsknecht, I have had some tell me this site is helpful. http://www.pipcom.com/~tempus/landsknecht/patterns.html Arian -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of KATHRYN WOLTERS Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:53 AM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Calling Margo! Sorry for the 'bandwidth'--but I just realized that I seem to have misplaced the URL to order a pattern from Margo. Also, does anyone know if Medieval Miscelliania put out a pattern of german mens' patterns to go along with the german's womans that it put out? Many thanks--- Albra Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 16:06:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GL6vSd030467 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:06:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GL5tcP007738; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:05:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GL5okp026435; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:05:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GL5Wkp026215 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:05:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69B971D1F1 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:05:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p510.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.213.3]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D9E96C545 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:05:30 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:05:48 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] FW: FW: Leine / Tunic - Patterns and what works X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't remember which list this question was asked. I posted the question to a LH list that deals with 9th and 10th cents. and this is so far the reply I got. De The Scottish leine, a *much* later garment, is actually just a large linen shirt with some differences in details such as a collar. Try www.reconstructinghistory.com/ for some of the best info on the web about Scottish and Irish clothing. Pax, ::Linda:: -----Original Message----- I need a good pattern for a leine that a 9th - 10th century scottish highland gael would wear. I'm working out my armor for heavy atm, and I want to have a leine that covers up the armor so I can at least somewhat resemble someone from that period when on the field (considering I don't have chain and what not). Right now I use a basic tunic pattern, knee length with elbow length sleeves, round neckline, with trim around the neck (squared off). I wasn't sure if this really worked for my period or not. Also, is a leine considered a tunic and vice versa? What's the difference really? Thanks in advance for any feedback! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 16:47:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GLlvSd030742 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:47:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GLlJcP011167; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:47:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GLlCkp057327; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:47:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from thrednedlestrete.com (mail02.enterhost.com [69.93.13.234]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GLlAkp057239 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:47:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:47:03 -0600 Message-Id: <200403161547.AA104464538@thrednedlestrete.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Diana's cotehardie sleeve pics X-Mailer: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i2GLlAkp057239 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Great too see. I have for a short time put a page from the MOL book up at www.thrednedlestrete.com/Bulletinboard.htm. Have a quick look as they are only up for this discussion and will be removed shortly. Lisa Sinervo ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Ingrid G. Storrø Reply-To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:25:34 +0100 (CET) >Diana's pictures of the cotehardie sleeves are now available at >http://www.techarea.net/~ingridgs/pics/dianas_pics/ . :) > >Ingrid > >-- >This email has been scanned for viruses & spam by Decna as - www.decna.no >Denne E-post er sjekket for virus & spam av Decna as - www.decna.no > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 17:56:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GMuTSd031075 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:56:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GMtfcP018364; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:55:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GMtMkp007545; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:55:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GMtKkp007463 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:55:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [127.0.0.1] (HELO chori.org) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 819384 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:55:13 -0800 Received: by chori.org (8.12.9/8.12.6/Submit) id i2GMtDUb003460; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:55:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 819356 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:49:38 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:49:40 -0800 From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Definition of HABERJECT? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My husband sent this from another list and asked me to ask you all for a definition: As I was bouncing around I ran across a translation of the Magna Carta . Clause 37 says "There shall be standard measures of wine, ale, and corn (the London quarter), throughout the kingdom. There shall also be a standard width of dyed cloth, russett, and haberject, namely two ells within the selvedges. Weights are to be standardized similarly." The translation is provided by the British Library. Any idea what haberject is? Is it a color, a weave? LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 17:57:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GMvYSd031084 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:57:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GMuxcP018531; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:56:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GMuwkp008686; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:56:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GMtdkp007694 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:55:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [127.0.0.1] (HELO chori.org) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 819405 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:55:33 -0800 Received: by chori.org (8.12.9/8.12.6/Submit) id i2GMtXX7003524; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:55:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 819356 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:49:38 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:49:40 -0800 From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Definition of HABERJECT? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My husband sent this from another list and asked me to ask you all for a definition: As I was bouncing around I ran across a translation of the Magna Carta . Clause 37 says "There shall be standard measures of wine, ale, and corn (the London quarter), throughout the kingdom. There shall also be a standard width of dyed cloth, russett, and haberject, namely two ells within the selvedges. Weights are to be standardized similarly." The translation is provided by the British Library. Any idea what haberject is? Is it a color, a weave? LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 17:59:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GMxMSd031100 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:59:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GMwmcP018774; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:58:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GMwlkp009948; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:58:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GMwkkp009893 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:58:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [127.0.0.1] (HELO chori.org) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 819475 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:58:40 -0800 Received: by chori.org (8.12.9/8.12.6/Submit) id i2GMweTe003741; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:58:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (HELO chori.org) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 819438 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:56:24 -0800 Received: by chori.org (8.12.9/8.12.6/Submit) id i2GMuOgb003660; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:56:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 819356 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:49:38 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:49:40 -0800 From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Definition of HABERJECT? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My husband sent this from another list and asked me to ask you all for a definition: As I was bouncing around I ran across a translation of the Magna Carta . Clause 37 says "There shall be standard measures of wine, ale, and corn (the London quarter), throughout the kingdom. There shall also be a standard width of dyed cloth, russett, and haberject, namely two ells within the selvedges. Weights are to be standardized similarly." The translation is provided by the British Library. Any idea what haberject is? Is it a color, a weave? LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 18:22:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GNMOSd031212 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:22:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNLhcP021201; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:21:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNLfkp025954; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:21:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNLWkp025760 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:21:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.74.39a60895 (18403) for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:16:11 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <74.39a60895.2d88e4bb@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:16:11 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Definition of HABERJECT? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/16/2004 4:56:55 PM Central Standard Time, LDownward@chori.org writes: Any idea what haberject is? Is it a color, a weave? LynnD Okay, this is far from a definitive answer but it might help some. In doing a google search for the term, I came across a couple of websites that had the Magna Carta written in Spanish. The Spanish translation for "haberject" was "la cota de malla." This, apparently, is a certain type of chain mail. Like I said, not definitive, but it might give you a direction to go in to find a certain answer. -Tiff "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 18:35:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GNZPSd031309 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:35:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNYocP022476; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:34:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNYmkp035152; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:34:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNYYkq034988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:34:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2GNY2PV010317 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:34:02 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:34:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40578F05.4050309@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:34:29 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Definition of HABERJECT? References: <74.39a60895.2d88e4bb@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <74.39a60895.2d88e4bb@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com wrote: > Okay, this is far from a definitive answer but it might help some. In doing > a google search for the term, I came across a couple of websites that had the > Magna Carta written in Spanish. The Spanish translation for "haberject" was > "la cota de malla." This, apparently, is a certain type of chain mail. What a great idea, to search that way. If it's correct, does it imply that chain mail was produced as yard goods and then reformed? That would be bizarre. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent If you're getting error messages from my spam-blocker program, please tell me so that I can fix it. A message from the form on my website will always reach me: http://www.virtue.to _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 18:37:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GNbWSd031321 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:37:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNb4cP022757; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:37:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNb0kp036701; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:37:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNaskp036577 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:36:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 819681 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:36:48 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:36:50 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Definition of HABERJECT? From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <74.39a60895.2d88e4bb@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i2GNaskp036577 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, Tiff. That¹s more than we knew before. I should have suggested the google search to my husband. LynnD On 3/16/04 3:16 PM, "Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com" wrote: > In a message dated 3/16/2004 4:56:55 PM Central Standard Time, > LDownward@chori.org writes: > Any idea what haberject is? Is it a color, a weave? > > LynnD > > > Okay, this is far from a definitive answer but it might help some. In doing > a google search for the term, I came across a couple of websites that had the > Magna Carta written in Spanish. The Spanish translation for "haberject" was > "la cota de malla." This, apparently, is a certain type of chain mail. > > Like I said, not definitive, but it might give you a direction to go in to > find a certain answer. > > -Tiff > "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 18:39:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GNdISd031328 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:39:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNcYcP022960; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:38:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNcYkp037825; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:38:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from juanite.fhcrc.org (juanite.fhcrc.org [140.107.42.127]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNcTkq037737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:38:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gawne@mac.com) Received: from mazzite.fhcrc.org (mazzite.fhcrc.org [140.107.152.11]) by juanite.fhcrc.org (8.12.7/8.12.7/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id i2GNcOpS017961 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:38:24 -0800 Received: from e500b.fhcrc.org (e500b.fhcrc.org [140.107.52.110]) by mazzite.fhcrc.org (8.12.7/8.12.7/SuSE Linux 0.6) with SMTP id i2GNcELt023975 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:38:14 -0800 Received: from mica.fhcrc.org(140.107.152.12) by e500b.fhcrc.org via csmap id 1008; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:38:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.fhcrc.org ([140.107.42.48]) by mica.fhcrc.org (8.12.7/8.12.7/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id i2GNcDwJ020083 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:38:13 -0800 Received: from UROPORTABLE ([140.107.73.213]) by smtp.fhcrc.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i2GNcD625607 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:38:13 -0800 Message-ID: <00ec01c40bb0$100ccb00$d5496b8c@UROPORTABLE> From: "Agnes Gawne" To: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:40:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-FHCRC: INTERNAL X-PMX-Version: 4.5.0.90627, Antispam-Core: 4.0.4.92622, Antispam-Data: 2004.3.16.94414 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Haberject X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Agnes Gawne" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 3:38 PM Subject: Haberject > Here's the quote from the Oxford English Dictionary: (it leads on to other > words Hauberk and Haubergeon so I pasted them in too)... hope this helps! > > haberjet, hauberget > Also 6 hauberject, 8 haberject, 9 halberject, -git. [In med.L. haubergetum, > a word of obscure origin, app. related to HAUBERK and HABERGEON.] > A kind of cloth named in Magna Carta, and in some ancient documents. > > [1216 Magna Carta 1 Hen. III §23 Sit..una latitudo pannorum tinctorum & > Russettorum & Haubergetorum, scilicet due Ulne infra listas.] 1502 tr. Great > Charter in Arnolde Chron. (1811) 219 And one largenes dyed clothes and of > russetis and of hauberiectis, that is to sey two ellis betwyxt the listis. > 1706 PHILLIPS (ed. Kersey), Haberjects, or Haubergets, a kind of Cloth > mention'd in Magna Charta, and other Records. 1865 KINGSLEY Herew. II. i. 10 > Clothing of..grising or halbergit and lambs' skins. 1861 RILEY Liber Albus > Gloss. s.v. Hapertas, In Mag. Rot. 14 John, mention is made of 3043 ells de > halbergo albo 'of white halberject' for the king's use. > > hauberk > > [a. OF. hauberc, earlier holberc, later (and mod.F.) haubert = Pr. ausberc, > It. osbergo, usbergo, med.L. halsberga, etc., a Com. Rom. deriv. of OHG. > halsberg, halsperc masc. (also halsberga fem.) = OE. healsbeor, ON. halsbjrg > fem., f. hals neck + -bergan to cover, protect (cf. HARBOUR). The OE. word > did not survive: the OF. form was introduced in ME. See also the deriv. > HABERGEON.] > > A piece of defensive armour: originally intended for the defence of the > neck and shoulders; but already in 12th and 13th c. developed into a long > coat of mail, or military tunic, usually of ring or chain mail, which > adapted itself readily to the motions of the body. > > 1297 R. GLOUC. (1724) 99 Wy haubert noble and ryche. Ibid. 174 With swerd > or hauberk eny batail to do. c1330 R. BRUNNE Chron. Wace (Rolls) 10029 > Hauberk wi plates y-burnuscht ful wel. c1386 CHAUCER Knt.'s T. 1573 The > Statue of Mars bigan his hauberk rynge. c1400 Destr. Troy 5828 Hurlet urghe > the hawbergh, hurt hym full sore. c1450 Merlin 118 Thei..ronnen agein > hym..and smyten hym on the shelde and on the haubrek. 1495 Act 11 Hen. VII, > c. 64 Armours Defensives, as Jakkes Salettis Brigandynes..Haubertis Curesses > [etc.]. 1590 SPENSER F.Q. II. viii. 44 And on the haubergh stroke the Prince > so sore, That quite disparted all the linked frame. 1600 FAIRFAX Tasso I. > lxxii. 15 Some dond a curace, some a corslet bright, An hawberke some, and > some a haberion. 1781 GIBBON Decl. & F. III. lviii. 434 His breast was > defended by an hauberk or coat of mail. 1870 LOWELL Study Wind. 242 My ears > no sweeter music know Than hauberk's clank with saddle~bow. 1887 BOWEN Virg. > Æneid v. 259 Hauberk woven of polished chain. > > > > b. worn as a garment for penance. Obs. > > c1305 Edmund Conf. 28 in E.E.P. (1862) 71 e moder werede harde hare..and > harde hauberk aboue; In suche penance heo ladde hire lyf. c1386 CHAUCER > Pars. T. 980 Clothing of whiche Ihesu crist is moore apayed than of heyres > or haubergeons or hauberkes. > > > > > > habergeon, haubergeon > > Forms: . 3 haubergeun, 4-6 -oun(e, 4-9 -on; also 4-5 hawberjoun, Sc. > haubrischoun(e, hawbyrschown, haubersion(e, 5 hawburgon, -byrgon, Sc. > awbyrchowne, 6 haubergyon, haulbergyn, 9 hawbergeon. . ? 3, 4- habergeon; > also 3-4 haberion, habiryun, 4-5 haber-, habar-, habir-, habour-, habur-, > habyr-, -geon, -gion, -gioun, -gyn(e, -gon, -goun, -gown, -goyne, -jon(e, -j > oun(e, -jown(e, -jeoun, -jeon, -jun(e, -yon(e, 5 aburioun, 6 habergyn, > habarion, habbergion, -jon, -jeoun; Sc. haberjone, -choun, -shoune, > haberschone, abrichon. (About 100 variants.) [ME. a. F. haubergeon (12th c. > in Hatz.-Darm.), deriv. (treated as dim.) of OF. hauberc, now haubert: see > HAUBERK and -ON. In Eng. from an early date reduced to ha-, though examples > of hau-, haw-, under French influence, contemporary or historical, occur > down to the present day. The word has been since the 16th c. only > historical, and it was app. after it had become obs. as a living word, that > the pronunciation (hbdn) or (hbdin), found in Milton, Butler, Glover, etc., > and in some modern dictionaries, arose.] > > A sleeveless coat or jacket of mail or scale armour, originally smaller > and lighter than a HAUBERK, but sometimes app. the same as that. > > [1285 Act 13 Edw. I c. 6 A disz liveree de terre..haubergeun chapel espe e > cutel.] c1340 Cursor M. 7521 (Trin.) Helme haburioun [Gött. habiryun] on him > ei did. 1375 BARBOUR Bruce XI. 130 Mony helmys and hawbyrschownys. c1375 Sc. > Leg. Saints, Margaret 279 Scho wes cled in haubersione Of treutht and of > deuocione. 1377 LANGL. P. Pl. B. XVIII. 23 In his helme and in his > haberioun. 1382 WYCLIF 1 Sam. xvii. 5 Goliath..was clothid with a maylid > hawberioun [1388 an haburioun hokid]. 1382 Eph. vi. 14 e haberioun of > ritwysnesse. c1386 CHAUCER Sir Thopas 150 Nexte his sherte an Aketoun And > ouer that an haubergeoun [v. rr. habyrioun, habergoun, haberioun]. 1411 E.E. > Wills (1882) 19 To Henre my sonne, an aburioun, a ketil Hatte. c1425 WYNTOUN > Cron. VIII. xxxiii. 22 Throw thre fauld of Awbyrchowne. c1440 Promp. Parv. > 220/1 Haburyone [v.r. haburgyn], or hawberk, lorica. c1450 Mirour Saluacioun > 4129 The haubergeonne whilk his body shuld kepe both vp and doune. 1530 > PALSGR. 229/2 Haulbergyn of mayle. 1535 COVERDALE Rev. ix. 9 They had > habbergions As it were habbergions of yron. 1590 SPENSER F.Q. II. vi. 29 > Their mightie strokes their haberjeons dismayld. 1600 FAIRFAX Tasso I. > lxxii. 15 Some dond a curace, some a corslet bright, An hawberke some, and > some a haberion. 1611 BIBLE 2 Chron. xxvi. 14 And Vzziah prepared for > them..shields, and speares, and helmets, and habergions. 1663 BUTLER Hud. I. > iii. 537 The shot let fly..Lodg'd in Magnano's brass habergeon. 1671 MILTON > Samson 1119 Then put on all they gorgeous arms, thy helmet And brigandine of > brass, thy broad habergeon. 1679 BLOUNT Anc. Tenures 23 Their Knights and > free~holders to find Corslets and Haubergeons. 1787 GLOVER Athenaid VIII. > (R.), Above, bright maile, habergeons scal'd in gold. 1864 SIR F. PALGRAVE > Norm. & Eng. III. 306 The knights are now seen..each covered with his > hawbergeon of mail. 1879 BROWNING Tray 4 Sir Olaf, the good knight, did don > His helm and eke his habergeon. > > > > b. Worn as a rough garment for penance. Obs. > > c1386 CHAUCER Pars. T. 978 Werynge of heyres or of stamyn, or of > haubergeons on hire naked flesshe..and swiche manere penances. Ibid. 980 Of > whiche Ihesu crist is moore apayed than of heyres or haubergeouns or > hauberkes. > > > > c. Applied to the elytron of a beetle. Obs. > > a1637 B. JONSON Sad Sheph. II. ii, Scaly beetles, with their habergeons, > That make a humming murmur as they fly. > > > > Hence habergeoned (hauberiounyd) a., equipped with a habergeon. > > 1382 WYCLIF 1 Macc. iv. 7 Thei sawen the tentis of heithen men stronge, > and men hauberiounyd. > > > > > > > > > > Message: 16 > > Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:16:11 EST > > From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Definition of HABERJECT? > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > Message-ID: <74.39a60895.2d88e4bb@aol.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > In a message dated 3/16/2004 4:56:55 PM Central Standard Time, > > LDownward@chori.org writes: > > Any idea what haberject is? Is it a color, a weave? > > > > LynnD > > > > > > Okay, this is far from a definitive answer but it might help some. In > doing > > a google search for the term, I came across a couple of websites that had > the > > Magna Carta written in Spanish. The Spanish translation for "haberject" > was > > "la cota de malla." This, apparently, is a certain type of chain mail. > > > > Like I said, not definitive, but it might give you a direction to go in to > > find a certain answer. > > > > -Tiff > > "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 18:42:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GNgeSd031340 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:42:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNftcP023258; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:41:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNfokp040004; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:41:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web9406.mail.yahoo.com (web9406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2GNfmkp039975 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:41:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040316234147.33942.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.201.200.82] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:41:47 PST Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:41:47 -0800 (PST) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: RE: [h-cost] Calling Margo! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Arian--that's a very useful site:) Since I've never done a german for a man--there's lots for me to learn here! Hopefully that learning curve will go up very quickly, too! It looks like what I am looking for is something that looks like a square necked doublet--that has skirts to the knee-- somewhere around 1490 to 1530. And from the site's discription tht it is held in place by a sash or belt, does this mean that the skirt and doublet are 2 seperate itames? Albra (still foggy on the concept) otsisto wrote: I am not sure but I vaguely remember MM used to have a Landsknecht pattern long ago ( could be remembering another company) If you were wanting Landsknecht, I have had some tell me this site is helpful. http://www.pipcom.com/~tempus/landsknecht/patterns.html Arian -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of KATHRYN WOLTERS Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:53 AM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Calling Margo! Sorry for the 'bandwidth'--but I just realized that I seem to have misplaced the URL to order a pattern from Margo. Also, does anyone know if Medieval Miscelliania put out a pattern of german mens' patterns to go along with the german's womans that it put out? Many thanks--- Albra Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 18:45:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GNj4Sd031351 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:45:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNiNcP023545; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:44:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNiKkp041751; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:44:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNhkkp041320 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:43:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.15c.2fa64f59 (18403) for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:43:34 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <15c.2fa64f59.2d88eb26@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:43:34 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Haberject To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/16/2004 5:39:01 PM Central Standard Time, gawne@mac.com writes: > b. worn as a garment for penance. Obs. I've always thought this was the definition of "corset." ::grin:: -Tiff "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 18:48:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GNlxSd031363 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:47:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNlKcP023873; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:47:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNlJkp043871; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:47:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNlHkp043779 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:47:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (v92.16) with ESMTP id RELAYIN6-7405791f6301; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:47:02 1900 Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.7b.24974e3c (18403) for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:41:50 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <7b.24974e3c.2d88eabe@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:41:50 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Definition of HABERJECT? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2GNlxSd031363 Status: RO In a message dated 3/16/2004 5:35:21 PM Central Standard Time, cvirtue+dated+1095032042.2c8270@thibault.org writes: What a great idea, to search that way. If it's correct, does it imply that chain mail was produced as yard goods and then reformed? That would be bizarre. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent It does seem bizarre to me too, which is why I say it's kind of a questionable answer LOL. But I would assume that when the Magna Carta was translated into Spanish, they must have had their reasons for translating "haberject" into "la cota de malla." The photos that I found for "la cota de malla" are not what I usually picture when thinking of chain mail; it really does almost look like a metal fabric of sorts. It's very fine and closely worked. Here's a link: http://www.mambri.com/legio/loricahamata.html -Tiff "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 18:58:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GNw1Sd031400 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:58:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNvMcP025002; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:57:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNvIkp050630; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:57:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2GNvEkp050590 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:57:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13068 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:28:19 -0600 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:28:19 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Definition of HABERJECT? In-Reply-To: <74.39a60895.2d88e4bb@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com wrote: > Okay, this is far from a definitive answer but it might help some. > In doing a google search for the term, I came across a couple of > websites that had the Magna Carta written in Spanish. The Spanish > translation for "haberject" was "la cota de malla." This, apparently, > is a certain type of chain mail. Sounds like the translator picked up on the English "habergeon," which is a mail shirt. See http://www.onelook.com/?w=habergeon&ls=b for a selection of definitions, some with etymologies. It's related to "hauberk." But I would think from the context that we're seeing an error by a translator who couldn't find anything closer, and that "haberject" is a different word, maybe with some roots in common. I'm thinking of "haberdasher" as a potential relative here. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 19:00:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H00pSd031415 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:00:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H00CcP025297; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:00:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H009kp052619; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:00:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H006kp052534 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:00:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.1d7.1c39434c (18403) for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:59:56 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1d7.1c39434c.2d88eefb@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:59:55 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Definition of HABERJECT? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/16/2004 5:58:09 PM Central Standard Time, robin@shell.nightowl.net writes: But I would think from the context that we're seeing an error by a translator who couldn't find anything closer, and that "haberject" is a different word, maybe with some roots in common. I'm thinking of "haberdasher" as a potential relative here. --Robin I don't know ... there were probably half a dozen different websites that I scanned across which all had "la cota de malla" as the word for "haberject." That's the only reason I brought it up ... it seems to have been a general consensus at some point. If it had just been one person's translation, I would also have assumed that they made a mistake. -Tiff "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 19:28:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H0StSd031494 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:28:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H0NgcP027189; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:23:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H0Ndkp066780; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:23:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H0Nakq066740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:23:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2H0N7PV011125 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:23:07 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:23:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40579A86.9010603@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:23:34 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Definition of HABERJECT? References: <7b.24974e3c.2d88eabe@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <7b.24974e3c.2d88eabe@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com wrote: > The photos that I found for "la cota de malla" are not what I usually picture > when thinking of chain mail; it really does almost look like a metal fabric > of sorts. It's very fine and closely worked. Here's a link: > > http://www.mambri.com/legio/loricahamata.html Er, right. That's chain mail alright. The best medieval stuff I've seen had rings maybe 1/4" in diameter, beaten flat, with IIRC, the name of Allah stamped on each one (Higgins Armory, Worchester, MA). Hobbyists don't generally get that good. (And you can get chain mail gloves for use if you're a meat packer; the rings there are more like 1/8", but that's modern.) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 19:29:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H0TbSd031501 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:29:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H0J5cP026897; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:19:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H0J3kp064255; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:19:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav64.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H0Iwkp064161 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:18:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:01:36 -0800 Received: from 24.58.109.191 by bay1-dav64.adinternal.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:01:36 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.109.191] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: <15c.2fa64f59.2d88eb26@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Haberject Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:01:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Mar 2004 00:01:36.0934 (UTC) FILETIME=[041DF460:01C40BB3] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Only one that fits badly. ============================= Now open! http://kristalori.com ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Haberject > In a message dated 3/16/2004 5:39:01 PM Central Standard Time, gawne@mac.com > writes: > > b. worn as a garment for penance. Obs. > > > I've always thought this was the definition of "corset." ::grin:: > > -Tiff > "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 19:34:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H0YWSd031525 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:34:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H0XlcP028111; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:33:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H0Xjkp072417; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:33:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H0Xgkp072400 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:33:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net (firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2H0HdZ00385 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:17:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-4.155.60.245.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.60.245] helo=HELENPINTO) by firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B3Oka-0000ZT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:17:36 -0800 Message-ID: <04fb01c40bb5$3dae8490$f53c9b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <74.39a60895.2d88e4bb@aol.com> <40578F05.4050309@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Definition of HABERJECT? Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:17:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9efc2b66649e995643790980b9c3b2e1fc3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia wrote: If it's correct, does it imply > that chain mail was produced as yard goods and then reformed? That > would be bizarre. I had found the same "cota de malla" sources, but then I started thinking that maybe it's not so far-fetched afterall. What better way to put your apprentices or maybe your journeymen to work than making flat sheets of mail? Then the master does the tailoring. All the other trades had a division of labor, why not armourers? -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 20:02:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H12BSd031651 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:02:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H0qPcP029654; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:52:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H0qNkp082346; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:52:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H0qIkp082317 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:52:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.120]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B3GD5-0008K5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:10:27 -0800 Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B3GD3-000534-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:10:25 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pictures Dickens Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:10:39 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01c40b68$d83ae820$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4057169F.8070405@kabelfoon.nl> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Looks fabulous. Are those curls your real hair? WoW! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 20:28:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H1SLSd031852 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:28:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H1CgcP001219; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:12:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H1C5kp092156; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:12:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out003.verizon.net (out003pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H1Bxkp092117 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:11:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([141.152.141.79]) by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040317011158.DFQM2031.out003.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:11:58 -0600 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW: FW: Leine / Tunic - Patterns and what works Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:11:53 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [141.152.141.79] at Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:11:56 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Liene is just Gaelic for shirt. There are two basic design differences that show up as liene amongst re-enactors and costumers. One is the Style that seems popular in the 16th century, but there is an earlier version and it is often described as being tunic like. I think it is also listed on the Reconstructing History web page. Otherwise try the North Carolina Tartan museum. There is definitely stuff online regarding it however, I think it is reconstruction history. Cheers, Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of otsisto > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 4:06 PM > To: Historic Costume > Subject: [h-cost] FW: FW: Leine / Tunic - Patterns and what works > > > I don't remember which list this question was asked. > I posted the question to a LH list that deals with 9th and 10th cents. and > this is so far the reply I got. > > De > > The Scottish leine, a *much* later garment, is actually just a large linen > shirt with some > differences in details such as a collar. Try > www.reconstructinghistory.com/ > for some of the best > info on the web about Scottish and Irish clothing. > > Pax, > ::Linda:: > > -----Original Message----- > > I need a good pattern for a leine that a 9th - 10th century scottish > highland gael would wear. I'm working out my armor for heavy atm, > and I want to have a leine that covers up the armor so I can at > least somewhat resemble someone from that period when on the field > (considering I don't have chain and what not). Right now I use a > basic tunic pattern, knee length with elbow length sleeves, round > neckline, with trim around the neck (squared off). I wasn't sure if > this really worked for my period or not. Also, is a leine considered > a tunic and vice versa? What's the difference really? > > Thanks in advance for any feedback! > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 20:29:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H1TESd031885 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:29:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H1JMcP001672; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:19:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H1JKkp095807; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:19:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp6.primus.ca (mail.tor.primus.ca [216.254.136.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H1JIkq095786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:19:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jhobbi2@po-box.mcgill.ca) Received: from dsl-207-112-58-61.tor.primus.ca ([207.112.58.61] helo=pheonix) by smtp6.primus.ca with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B3Pjx-0007AZ-0A for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 01:21:01 +0000 Message-ID: <004201c40bbd$8b817c60$3901a8c0@pheonix> From: "Joanna Hobbins" To: "Historical Costume" References: <74.39a60895.2d88e4bb@aol.com> <40578F05.4050309@thibault.org> <04fb01c40bb5$3dae8490$f53c9b04@HELENPINTO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Definition of HABERJECT? Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:10:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Having made several maille hauberks and haubergeons, creating flat sheets and tailoring them is a very poor way to go about it. A lot of wasted time, even with butted links, with riveted maille you'd essentially double the time it would take to make the armour. Division of labour amongst armour would be in creating the open rings, striking the closed rings, creating the overlap, piercing the rings, creating the rivets, "knitting" the piece in question, and riveting it closed. When I first saw the subject heading, my immediate thought was it was related to haberdasher, but the relation to hauberk and haubergeon seems pretty solid. However, not all haubergeons were made of maille. Padded (cloth) haubergeons existed for those who could not afford maille armour. They would be similar to a gambeson, but without sleeves. Could haberject be the a relatively thick material used to make cloth haubergeons? my 2 cents Joanna (still shuddering at the idea of taking a cloth of maille and "tailoring" it) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Definition of HABERJECT? > Cynthia wrote: > If it's correct, does it imply > > that chain mail was produced as yard goods and then reformed? That > > would be bizarre. > > > I had found the same "cota de malla" sources, but then I started thinking > that maybe it's not so far-fetched afterall. What better way to put your > apprentices or maybe your journeymen to work than making flat sheets of > mail? Then the master does the tailoring. All the other trades had a > division of labor, why not armourers? > -Helen/Aidan > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 20:54:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H1s3Sd032148 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:54:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H1rLcP003920; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:53:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H1rJkp012451; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:53:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2H1rHkp012432 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:53:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kendra@tweedlebop.com) Received: from unknown (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@64.175.40.98 with login) by smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2004 01:53:16 -0000 Message-ID: <004701c40bc2$9c55dbd0$0202a8c0@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001301c40b78$7cc4a660$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5Bh-cost=5D_spring_party_at_Gustaf's_Sk=E5l.?= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:53:14 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fabulous as always! I love the woman with the really frizzed out 1780s hair. - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 20:56:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H1uxSd032191 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:56:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H1uKcP004183; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:56:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H1uHkp014002; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:56:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2H1uAkp013947 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:56:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kendra@tweedlebop.com) Received: from unknown (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@64.175.40.98 with login) by smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2004 01:56:08 -0000 Message-ID: <009c01c40bc3$027e0cc0$0202a8c0@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002801c40b89$f54966f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <40575F45.7090908@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures Dickens Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:56:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Deredere, What you're talking about is called flat lining, which is where you sew the fashion fabric/underlining/lining all together as individual pieces BEFORE you sew them together. This was very common in the Victorian era, and the fabulous thing about it is that it makes it very easy to fit and alter your bodices! - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:10 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures Dickens > I like 15th, 16th, 18th and 19th century clothing. > I am working on a 18th century corset right now. > What I find very strange in the Victorian dress, are the seams. The > bodice is lined but you can still see the raw edges on de inside of bodice. > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Victorian/Victorian.html > Nice part about 19th century costumes is that there are more original > patterns. > But I don't think there is a style I like most. > At least not yet. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 21:15:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H2FDSd032375 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:15:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H2EXcP005427; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:14:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H2EVkp022453; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:14:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H2EQkp022392 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:14:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.1ad.210aaccc (24895) for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:09:12 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1ad.210aaccc.2d890d48@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:09:12 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures Dickens To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/16/2004 3:11:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > What I find very strange in the Victorian dress, are the seams. The > bodice is lined but you can still see the raw edges on de inside of bodice. > Well....sometimes I guess. Usually the inside is neatened though. I saw two 1890s bodices, the same size, made of different brown silks but trimmed and decorated with the same brown and gold brocade. They may have gone with one now missing skirt. They were obviously made by the same person. The insides were as beautiful as the outsides. There were many seams in the back....it having 6 pieces [the fronts were one with darts] curving and narrowing to the waist. These seams on the inside had the allowances scalloped, not just clipped, to allow them to be pressed flat. The scalloped edges were bound in dark green seam binding. A coffee brown boning casing with whale bone in it was X stitched across the boning, in bright magenta thread, on each seam. It was a thing of beauty. And of course there are two kinds of lining. Flat lining is when you cut 2 of each pattern piece you need, one out of the fashion fabric and one of the lining. They are basted together and then handled as a single piece. This is a structural thing usually for strength. Then there is the other kind of lining like in a coat where the two are made up separately and then put together with the raw edges facing each other. They are by no means mutually exclusive. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 21:57:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H2vKSd032654 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:57:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H2udcP007896; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:56:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H2ubkp041721; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:56:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40913.mail.yahoo.com (web40913.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.210]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2H2uWkp041652 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:56:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from demontsegur@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040317024946.89075.qmail@web40913.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.167.44.64] by web40913.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:49:46 PST Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:49:46 -0800 (PST) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200403170113.i2H1DEkr092740@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Definition of HABERJECT? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am not sure if this may even be of much interest to most of the folks on this list, but the term 'chain mail' is considered redundant by armourers/artisans recreating the 'hard kits' of history. The generally accepted term is simply 'mail', or 'maille'. For the medieval period, metal armour was mostly mail (little circles looped through each other) and then later solid plate, often in conjunction with mail. -Tasha __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 22:23:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H3NRSd032710 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:23:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H3MmcP009400; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:22:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H3Mkkp054091; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:22:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from uranium.btinternet.com (uranium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H3Mekp054047 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:22:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stevie.gamble@btinternet.com) Received: from [81.129.117.188] (helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1B3EDv-0007kZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:03:11 +0000 Message-ID: <002e01c40b57$51f3a9c0$bc758151@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is anyone going to the Bath Ball this year? Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:05:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Danielle wrote: > I've decided to treat myself to something fun so I decided to go to the Bath ball, now that I am in this country. http://www.bathminuetcompany.freeserve.co.uk/ > > Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else is going this year? Well, Bjarne is attending, and so am I if I ever manage to finish this sack! It will be great to have you along. >Also can someone recommend a nice but inexpensive B&B in Bath? I'm looking for one of those myself.... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 16 23:50:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H4oVSd000599 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:50:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H4nacP014845; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:49:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H4nVkp091983; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:49:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H4nRkp091949 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:49:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14575 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:20:33 -0600 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:20:33 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th cent surcote/dress question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, Cornelia Muncke wrote: > I am looking into open surcotes in the 14th century. I have recently > come across the images of Blanche de Valois and Joanna von Pfirt > (statues on the facade of the Stefansdom in Vienna, ~1365). Both > ladies appear to wear a very interesting garment, which could be > anything between an embroidered dress and an open surcote worn over a > kirtle/supportive layer, except for the fact that their heavily > ornamented belt seems to go over the entire dress, not under as you > would expect if it was an open surcote. Stella Mary Newton describes > these dresses as one layer, with a gathered skirt and a seam which is > hidden by the belt. The image of Joanna von Pfirt's statue clearly > shows the extended "embroidery/plastron decoration?" of the bodice > below the belt, something I would expect from an open surcote (i.e. > statue of Jeanne de Bourbon). Took me a while to answer because I had to wait till I had time to sit down with Newton and look up these images again. (In future, you might want to give listmates a pointer to a book page or -- better -- scan in some images if you have a place to post them, so everyone can see what you're talking about.) Anyway, once I found them again, I remembered why these images made me so uncomfortable. I have never felt quite right about Newton's interpretation of these two statues. For one thing, the idea of a hipline seam with a cartridge-pleated skirt goes against everything else we know of 14th c. construction, and just doesn't seem to make sense. For another thing, the general style of these statues seems a lot later than Newton assumes. She writes, "There has been a good deal of discussion as to exactly when these statues were made and by whom, but it seems likely that they were conceived, if not executed, before 1365..." There are some elements that put them, to my eye, almost that early, particularly the hairstyles. But the pleating in the mantle seems more likely to be 15th century to me. Newton does indicate that she's never seen any evidence of these pleats in this period anywhere else (which seems to me should be a reason for caution on the dating). She doesn't elaborate on what the date arguments are or how wide a range has been proposed, but I sure would be interested in knowing the other opinions. In any case, if they're pre-1365, I'd sincerely doubt they could be sideless surcotes, which had not yet attained a form with such elaborate plastron decoration and deeply cut sides. That would leave them to be some sort of dress with vertical front decoration, as Newton suggests, though I can't recall seeing anything else of the sort in this period, and I'm still skeptical of the idea of a hipline seam. Of course, this is also from Vienna, and who knows what sorts of regional variations were in place, particularly for royal embellishment, that we don't see further West (where I'm much more familiar with the range of options). On the other hand, if they are sideless surcotes, they could very likely be from the 15th century, by which time sideless surcotes were a typical garment for formal representations of queens. The later you go in the 15th century, the less grounded in reality these representations are, so by the second half of the 15th century, you end up with quite a number of visual variants on sideless surcotes that owe more to the sculptor's imagination than to any real knowledge of the garment (which was by then long out of wear). Anyone's guess, I suppose. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 00:11:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H5BKSd000632 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:11:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H5AecP016036; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:10:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H5AYkp000923; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:10:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H5AVkp000904 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:10:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19AC1D26E for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:10:30 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p600.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.213.93]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CA0EED3EE for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:10:29 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT: Diffusionism (was Bog dress & American colonies) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:10:48 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Marc Carlson Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:34 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] OT: Diffusionism (was Bog dress & American colonies) >>In that some archeologist believe that King Solomon's gold mines were >>located in Haiti and not Africa. Read a long article on how the length of >>time from Haiti to Jerusalem matched the records, the finding of old gold >>mines and other thing to prove their theory. Really. You wouldn't happen to have the citation for the article? I'd much rather dissect it than hear about it -- when I dispute with someone about something like this that they are telling me about, it can look too much like flaming. I'd rather attack the article. (this wouldn't happen to be that drivel by Dankenbring woud it?) * It comes from the magazine "Archeology Today" a 2003 issue. I do not have the issue any more. I don't remember the name Dankenbring being in the article. Thank you for replying to the subject. I do not have a photographic memory and so only remember in a summary form. I have been trying to break myself of the habit of saying anything when I can not fully and thoroughly back up the statement with hard evidence. Example as above, I can only state roughly what the source is but can not give verbatim what the article said. My apologies, the habit is hard to break but hopefully, in time I will learn to shut up because I do not see myself getting a photographic memory anytime in the near future. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 00:51:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H5phSd000748 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:51:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H5p6cP018254; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:51:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H5p3kp017378; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:51:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H5oxkp017335 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:51:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2004031705505401300he3jle>; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 05:50:54 +0000 Message-ID: <4057E74B.9070305@fenris.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:51:07 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bathrobes References: <4055DE01.4030108@fenris.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another data point: from my mom - 76 yrs old, born and mostly lived/es in Michigan: "Bathrobe is utilitarian moisture absorbent or a sun blocker or a 'temporary' cover for the morning A dressing grown could also be a 'temporary' cover but also meant for a lover as in "slip in something more comfortable" , a more substantial than a negligee. Violetta would not be caught in a bathrobe on the opera stage." liz young Jean Waddie wrote: > I can recognise a difference in that a bathrobe is something you can > wear when wet, ie, probably towelling, and a dressing gown you > probably wouldn't. But dressing gown is still current here for > something worn over pajamas for extra warmth. Fabric and construction > (button-up or kimono-style) just seems to vary as fashion. > > Jean > > > Elizabeth Young wrote > >> Kate M Bunting wrote: >> >>> >>>>>> rmitchell@washjeff.edu 13/03/04 23:08:12 >>> >>>>>> >>> Ah, but there is a difference between a bathrobe and a dressing gown. >>> Kathleen >>> - >>> Is there? I thought "bathrobe" was the American term for what we >>> British call a dressing gown. >>> >>> Kate Bunting >>> Library, University of Derby >>> >> In my corner of the US (which is really still Michigan, even though I >> live in California now) a bathrobe is either what you wear instead of >> streaking from the shower or it is something you wear over your >> pajamas for extra warmth. I have one garment that serves both >> purposes. I call it a bathrobe. >> When I hear 'dressing gown' I think of something that people in the >> past wore around the house (esp. in old movies) instead of getting >> all the way dressed. I don't think of it as a current term. >> >> liz young >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 01:02:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H62LSd000775 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 01:02:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H61OcP018856; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:01:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H61Mkp021375; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:01:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2H61Ikp021309 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:01:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with ESMTP id <2004031706011301500jiqcce>; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:01:13 +0000 Message-ID: <4057E9B6.1010904@fenris.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:01:26 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Definition of HABERJECT? References: <1d7.1c39434c.2d88eefb@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1d7.1c39434c.2d88eefb@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 3/16/2004 5:58:09 PM Central Standard Time, >robin@shell.nightowl.net writes: >But I would think from the context that we're seeing an error by a >translator who couldn't find anything closer, and that "haberject" is a >different word, maybe with some roots in common. I'm thinking of >"haberdasher" as a potential relative here. > >--Robin > > >I don't know ... there were probably half a dozen different websites that I >scanned across which all had "la cota de malla" as the word for "haberject." >That's the only reason I brought it up ... it seems to have been a general >consensus at some point. If it had just been one person's translation, I would >also have assumed that they made a mistake. > > > It is quite possible that the several websites in question either used the same source or each other as 'back up' for that translation of the term. I don't suppose any of those sites gave the source for their information? liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 06:59:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HBxHSd028213 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:59:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HBwVcP001166; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 04:58:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HBwPkp054785; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 04:58:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mwinf0903.wanadoo.fr (smtp9.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HBwNkp054741 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 04:58:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from liara@wanadoo.fr) Received: from mathilde (AMontsouris-103-1-4-147.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.249.191.147]) by mwinf0903.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id A842B18001BB for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:31:22 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <00af01c40c13$987edf60$93bff951@mathilde> From: "Mathilde" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Definition of HABERJECT? Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:32:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Out of curiosity, I checked the French traduction of the Magna Carta... And haberject is translated by "toile" (I think the English word is canvas?), and not maille at all. Apparently every translator had it its own way... Liara > On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com wrote: > > > Okay, this is far from a definitive answer but it might help some. > > In doing a google search for the term, I came across a couple of > > websites that had the Magna Carta written in Spanish. The Spanish > > translation for "haberject" was "la cota de malla." This, apparently, > > is a certain type of chain mail. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 08:20:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HDKrSd028530 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:20:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HDKAcP003707; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:20:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HDK4kp086500; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:20:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HDK1kp086478 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:20:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2HD4LE23273 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 05:04:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B3aiZ-0000Sn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 05:04:19 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 14th cent surcote/dress question Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:04:37 -0700 Message-ID: <003f01c40c20$66e70740$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i2HDK1kp086478 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am glad Robin picked up on your message, because I know nothing but would like to learn. Robin said something that piqued my interest further. Where can the images be found? I'd really like to look at what you are discussing. Thanks, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 09:17:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HEHXSd028757 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:17:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HEGicP006090; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:16:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HEGgkp012561; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:16:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HEGbkp012530 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:16:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from khanson@kc.rr.com) Received: from karen (CPE-24-31-232-81.kc.rr.com [24.31.232.81]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i2HDjaOp029206 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:45:36 -0600 (CST) From: "Talia" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 14th cent surcote/dress question Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:45:17 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <003f01c40c20$66e70740$6a01a8c0@SG01> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If she's mentioning Stella Newton, my guess would be that they're talking about Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince. Talia Calontir > can the images be found? I'd really like to look at what you are > discussing. > > Thanks, > > Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 10:46:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HFkiSd029248 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:46:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HFascP011660; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:36:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HFakkp058241; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:36:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HFagkp058196 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:36:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pyrfectpup@earthlink.net) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.121.226]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B3ODE-0000Ku-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:43:08 -0800 Received: from pool0204.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.204] helo=earthlink.net) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B3OCx-0002OB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:42:52 -0800 Message-ID: <40579107.8070707@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:43:03 -0800 From: pyrfectpup User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Historical Sewing Machine Question References: <000301c40963$681d9d00$6a01a8c0@SG01> In-Reply-To: <000301c40963$681d9d00$6a01a8c0@SG01> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: >It's funny to see these referred to as historical...but you are right they >are.... >I just bought one myself. I was trying to replace the one my father taught >me to sew on back in the mid 60's. I have been soooooo disappointed in my >Viking #1. I just bought my Kenmore for 75$. It still works like a champ. >It makes perfect button holes every-time! They are kind of like old >cars.....Kept in good condition, it will last several lifetimes I am sure. > I have a Brother sewing machine that is about 33 years old. It came with several "embroidery" stitches - essentially fancy border type things - series of swans, etc. Up until about 15 years ago, the local sewing machine repair person was able to give it a "tune up." After that, the embroidery stitches began to look all out of shape and the repair person said he could no longer tune up to its original form. The other stitches (straight, stretch, zig-zag, button hole) work fine, but I do miss the embroidery stitches. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what type of repair person might be able to get it all in alignment again? Cecilia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 10:47:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HFlQSd029253 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:47:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HFgvcP012102; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:42:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HFgqkp062270; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:42:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail5.mdx.safepages.com (mail5.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HFgokp062239 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:42:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B88921CBE82 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:42:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail5.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail5.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12490-03 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:42:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 9ACBD1CBE76; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:42:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust116.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.116]) by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 265871CBE5B for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:42:44 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <011901c40c36$a8366180$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] black chemises Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:43:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That would help--do you have any other information on the painting? I haven't been able to track it down. -E ----- Original Message ----- From: "annora" > This isn't a direct answer and it's not a written account but it > opens up a possibility. Cranach has a painting of woman whose *shift is > definitely not white. My copy is in B&W so I don't know what color it > actually is but the photo reads as a dark color. It's German, ~1525 and > some opine that it's not actually a shift. The woman is wearing a > "Cranach gown" but it's laced directly over the undergarment--no white > placket under the breast band. And the band is _above_ the breasts so I'm > not sure if it's part of the overgown or the undergarment. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 11:07:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HG76Sd029362 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:07:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HG61cP014145; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HG5xkp078715; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:05:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HG5skp078679 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:05:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.119]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2HFo6E24991 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B3dKG-0002iL-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:51:25 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] black chemises Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:50:24 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01c40c37$8fb624f0$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-reply-to: <011901c40c36$a8366180$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i2HG5skp078679 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I will ask on the German Ren site for you...seems like one of the lists have discussed this before. > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of E House > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:44 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] black chemises > > That would help--do you have any other information on the painting? I > haven't been able to track it down. > > -E > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "annora" > > > This isn't a direct answer and it's not a written account but it > > opens up a possibility. Cranach has a painting of woman whose *shift is > > definitely not white. My copy is in B&W so I don't know what color it > > actually is but the photo reads as a dark color. It's German, ~1525 and > > some opine that it's not actually a shift. The woman is wearing a > > "Cranach gown" but it's laced directly over the undergarment--no white > > placket under the breast band. And the band is _above_ the breasts so I'm > > not sure if it's part of the overgown or the undergarment. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 11:09:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HG9eSd029371 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:09:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HG8ucP014410; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:08:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HG8qkp080762; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:08:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HG8mkp080724 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:08:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.119]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2HFnBZ03502 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:49:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B3dJN-0002XY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:50:29 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Historical Sewing Machine Question Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:49:28 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01c40c37$6e7432a0$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-reply-to: <40579107.8070707@earthlink.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would call and ask around. It may be that the cams (I assume that is what they are?) are just worn out...(seems unlikely) I would explain what you know and see what they say... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 11:27:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HGRFSd029450 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:27:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HGQUcP015904; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:26:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HGPqkp093593; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:25:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f29.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HGPjkp093445 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:25:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:25:39 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:25:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:25:38 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Mar 2004 16:25:39.0048 (UTC) FILETIME=[7BF59680:01C40C3C] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: OT: Diffusionism (was Bog dress & American colonies) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "otsisto" >>Really. You wouldn't happen to have the citation for the article? I'd >>much >>rather dissect it than hear about it -- when I dispute with someone about >>something like this that they are telling me about, it can look too much >>like flaming. I'd rather attack the article. (this wouldn't happen to be >>that drivel by Dankenbring woud it?) >* It comes from the magazine "Archeology Today" a 2003 issue. I do not have >the issue any more. I don't remember the name Dankenbring being in >the article. Hmm. A puzzle. (First, let me say that I accept that this is where you saw the article, and am not disputing this) I'm not finding Archaeology today as a magazine title. Is it possible that this not the complete title? [For example, there is a short article on "King Solomon's mines" on page 221 of issue 125 of Current Archaeology, although I'm not sure what the date would have been on that.] >Thank you for replying to the subject. I do not have a photographic memory >and so only remember in a summary form. I have been trying to break >myself >of the habit of saying anything when I can not fully and thoroughly >back up the statement with hard evidence. Example as above, I can only >state roughly what the source is but can not give verbatim what the article >said. My apologies, the habit is hard to break but hopefully, in time I >will >learn to shut up because I do not see myself getting a photographic memory >anytime in the near future. Don't worry about it - most people don't, in fact remember things exactly. It;s my understanding, thought don't ask me for a citation, that people actually may file "facts" in a separate part of the brain than "sources of facts", and that sources are of a lower priority for long term memory. This is prefectly normal, and not something to be upset about. I'm certainly not trying to make anyone be quiet on any topics, and I'm sorry if I cam across that way. If we don't discuss things, no one learns anything, and that's what I'm really interested in. I am concerned at the sorts of things that people are being taught as "facts", and would prefer to examine these critically. However in those cases, it's the "facts" that are being addressed, or the source of those facts, not the person doing the presenting. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Find a broadband plan that fits. Great local deals on high-speed Internet access. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 11:31:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HGVeSd029463 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:31:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HGUvcP016367; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:30:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HGUKkp096978; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:30:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HGUBkp096874 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:30:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97B7513DBDC for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:07:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02105-10 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:07:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 5F77213DBD6; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:07:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust116.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.116]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 110C913DBDB for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:07:55 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <011f01c40c3a$2dc2bcb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] sleeve closures (was: medieval button closures) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:09:07 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Interesting dress! I'm hoping I can track down a larger picture, sigh, as I just can't make out enough details. It might help to know that the sort of thing I'm specifically looking for is a black version of the white shift you see here: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/aragon.jpg But any mention of a black shift/chemise/undermost layer in western Europe would help wonderfully! -E ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" > This is just royally pissing me off. Apparently the previous link doesn't > work right so, > http://www.thrednedlestrete.com/morse/Illustrations.htm > > Look for Munchausen > > De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 11:33:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HGXESd029471 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:33:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HGWUcP016535; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:32:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HGVrkp098158; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:31:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HGVmkp098122 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:31:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i2HFvB4C018468 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:57:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00ea01c40c38$78f21750$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <011901c40c36$a8366180$0400a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] black chemises Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:56:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm taking some graphics classes this semester and found out something interesting... In Photoshop, depending on how the color channels are set, something that is light colored in the original color image can appear dark. So, perhaps that's how the chemise appears to be dark. Just an idea. kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] black chemises > That would help--do you have any other information on the painting? I > haven't been able to track it down. > > -E > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "annora" > > > This isn't a direct answer and it's not a written account but it > > opens up a possibility. Cranach has a painting of woman whose *shift is > > definitely not white. My copy is in B&W so I don't know what color it > > actually is but the photo reads as a dark color. It's German, ~1525 and > > some opine that it's not actually a shift. The woman is wearing a > > "Cranach gown" but it's laced directly over the undergarment--no white > > placket under the breast band. And the band is _above_ the breasts so I'm > > not sure if it's part of the overgown or the undergarment. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 11:51:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HGpGSd029548 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:51:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HGoWcP018271; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:50:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HGoRkp012300; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:50:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav53.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HGoLkp012210 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:50:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:32:58 -0800 Received: from 24.58.109.191 by bay1-dav53.adinternal.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:32:58 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.58.109.191] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice d'Este" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: OT: Diffusionism (was Bog dress & American colonies) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:33:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Mar 2004 16:32:58.0597 (UTC) FILETIME=[81F37150:01C40C3D] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 'clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040226', clamav-milter version '0.66m' Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc: http://www.archaeology.org/ It's a pretty good magazine. The local bookstore has it on rare occasion and well worth the read. Bice ============================= Now open! http://kristalori.com ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Carlson" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: [h-cost] RE: OT: Diffusionism (was Bog dress & American colonies) > Hmm. A puzzle. (First, let me say that I accept that this is where you saw > the article, and am not disputing this) I'm not finding Archaeology today > as a magazine title. Is it possible that this not the complete title? [For > example, there is a short article on "King Solomon's mines" on page 221 of > issue 125 of Current Archaeology, although I'm not sure what the date would > have been on that.] > Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 15:45:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HKj6Sd030754 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:45:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HKiJcP010388; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:44:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HKiB1D090726; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:44:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HKi41E090640 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:44:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2HLH8Wm010705 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:17:08 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A89133800C0; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:44:01 -0500 Received: from RMITCHELL-RAS ([209.131.81.127]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:44:00 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <001f01c40c61$5b3cf8a0$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001c01c40c37$6e7432a0$6a01a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Historical Sewing Machine Question Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:49:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you have the right settings for the cam modification? There should be three dials on the right hand side of the head. One is the stitch length, one is the zig-zag, and the other will have a red dot and probably 3/4 other symbols or letters. I think the 'u' is the right modifier for the cams. Check your book for the right key..One of the symbols deals with geometric patterns (sort of a running stitch) and I think you change it for the cute little patterns. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:49 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Historical Sewing Machine Question > I would call and ask around. It may be that the cams (I assume that is what > they are?) are just worn out...(seems unlikely) I would explain what you > know and see what they say... > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 15:48:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HKmXSd030772 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:48:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HKlEcP010575; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:47:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HKlD1D093175; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:47:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f91.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HKl71D093052 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:47:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:29:43 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:29:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:29:43 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Mar 2004 20:29:43.0585 (UTC) FILETIME=[94C89910:01C40C5E] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE:OT: Diffusionism (was Bog dress & American colonies) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Bice d'Este" Thank you, yes it's a very good journal. I read it regularly. Unfortunately, "Archaeology" is not "Archeology Today"; nor do they appear to have published any articles on "King Solomon's mines" in 2003. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar – FREE! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 16:30:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HLUWSd030958 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:30:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HLTVcP014655; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:29:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HLTS1D024818; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:29:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HLTM1D024723 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:29:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ff0.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.240]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9A96A5EE013 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:29:20 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002901c40c66$fc841a90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:29:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] more from Swedens Gustavians X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2HLUWSd030958 Status: RO Hi. Finally uploaded all 50 pictures from the Gustavian Society! Enjoy.............. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/spring_party_for_gustafs1.htm Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 16:40:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HLdxSd031006 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:39:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HLdOcP015540; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:39:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HLdJ1D045476; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:39:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from thrednedlestrete.com (mail02.enterhost.com [69.93.13.234]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HLdG1D045284 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:39:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:39:09 -0600 Message-Id: <200403171539.AA61997260@thrednedlestrete.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: X-Mailer: Cc: Subject: [h-cost] vintage aprons X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO a workmate of mine is interested in making some aprons from the 50's. Does anyone have any suggestions where she might find some photos of the same? Thanks, Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 16:50:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HLoqSd031053 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:50:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HLmfcP016621; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:48:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HLmZ1D060112; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:48:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HLmD1E059810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:48:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2HLlgPV021160 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:47:42 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:47:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4058C79C.50608@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:48:12 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] vintage aprons References: <200403171539.AA61997260@thrednedlestrete.com> In-Reply-To: <200403171539.AA61997260@thrednedlestrete.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa Sinervo wrote: > a workmate of mine is interested in making some aprons from the 50's. Does anyone have any suggestions where she might find some photos of the same? period cookbooks come to mind.... -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent If you're getting error messages from my spam-blocker program, please tell me so that I can fix it. A message from the form on my website will always reach me: http://www.virtue.to _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 16:56:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HLucSd031082 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:56:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HLqmcP017113; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:52:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HLql1D063341; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:52:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HLqa1D063175 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:52:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABD8C42615 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:07:16 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4058CA8C.8010506@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:00:44 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] vintage aprons References: <200403171539.AA61997260@thrednedlestrete.com> In-Reply-To: <200403171539.AA61997260@thrednedlestrete.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa Sinervo wrote: > a workmate of mine is interested in making some aprons from the 50's. Does anyone have any suggestions where she might find some photos of the same? > Cookbooks, catalogs, period women's magazines .... that's where I'd start depending on which of those I could get from my local libraries. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 17:47:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HMlwSd031365 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:47:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HMkucP023337; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:46:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HMkr1D003607; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:46:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HMko1D003516 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:46:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 823254 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:46:44 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:46:43 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] vintage aprons From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <031b01c40c6f$2cb83770$c33c9b04@HELENPINTO> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A couple of the big 4 (or are there only two now) had vintage-style patterns last year when I went looking. I'm away from my patterns, but I think that Butterick also had a couple. I think you can go to the Butterick website and look there. LynnD On 3/17/04 2:27 PM, "Helen Pinto" wrote: >> Lisa Sinervo wrote: >> >>> a workmate of mine is interested in making some aprons from the 50's. > Does anyone have any suggestions where she might find some photos of the > same? >>> > > Also, one of the "Big 4" pattern companies has reprinted a set of 50's-era > patterns; I think it was Simplicity. It was in the most recent catalog. > -Helen/Aidan > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 18:04:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HN4mSd031553 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:04:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HN2rcP024788; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:02:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HN2k1D014872; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:02:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HN2c1D014793 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:02:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.232]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B3e18-0005Dn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:35:42 -0800 Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B3e14-0000ng-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:35:38 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" Subject: FW: [GermanRenCostume] Re: FW: [h-cost] black chemises-Cranach Painting? Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:35:56 -0700 Message-ID: <001301c40c3d$ec4e4f70$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2HN4mSd031553 Status: RO Is this the one? -----Original Message----- From: Tonda Fuller [mailto:hoyden_ish@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:19 AM To: GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com Subject: [GermanRenCostume] Re: FW: [h-cost] black chemises-Cranach Painting? I've seen this discussion many times. The picture it has always been in reference to is the St. Catherine alter piece. One of the women is wearing some kind of "tucker" or chemisette, which is black. The only copy I can find on the internet is not a very good one. If I'm remembering the details correctly, in better reproductions you can see that she is wearing a white chemise under the black tucker (you can just barely make out the top edge at her neck in the online image). -Tonda http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach35.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GermanRenCostume/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: GermanRenCostume-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 18:12:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HNC2Sd031645 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:12:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HNB3cP025550; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HNB11D020571; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:11:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.83.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HNAu1D020543 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:10:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C374834E for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:10:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 24287-05 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:10:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8332F48330 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:10:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0e5001c40c75$18896160$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200403171539.AA61997260@thrednedlestrete.com> <4058CA8C.8010506@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] vintage aprons Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:10:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a pattern for aprons from the 1950's. Have her email me at goofy1@suscom.net and I can scan the cover for her. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] vintage aprons > Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > > a workmate of mine is interested in making some aprons from the 50's. Does anyone have any suggestions where she might find some photos of the same? > > > > Cookbooks, catalogs, period women's magazines .... that's where I'd > start depending on which of those I could get from my local libraries. > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 18:13:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HND4Sd031655 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:13:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HNCRcP025689; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:12:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HNCQ1D021574; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:12:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HNCK1D021525 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:12:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.176.69]) by smail2.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 12010627 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:02:39 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] vintage aprons Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:10:52 -0600 Message-ID: <01d501c40c75$18add950$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <200403171539.AA61997260@thrednedlestrete.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are TONS of these for sale all the time on eBay. Go to collectibles, vintage sewing, patterns Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sinervo Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:39 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] vintage aprons a workmate of mine is interested in making some aprons from the 50's. Does anyone have any suggestions where she might find some photos of the same? Thanks, Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 18:19:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HNJCSd031696 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:19:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HNIYcP026337; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:18:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HNIW1D025800; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:18:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.k12.hi.us (honu.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.214]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HNIR1D025766 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:18:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from makani (makani.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.195]) by smtp.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9D27506D8 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:14:10 -1000 (HST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:16:40 -1000 (HST) From: annora X-X-Sender: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: FW: [GermanRenCostume] Re: FW: [h-cost] black chemises-Cranach Painting? In-Reply-To: <001301c40c3d$ec4e4f70$6a01a8c0@SG01> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > Is this the one? > > I've seen this discussion many times. The picture it has always been > in reference to is the St. Catherine alter piece. One of the women is > wearing some kind of "tucker" or chemisette, which is black. > > http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach35.html This is not the one I was referencing. I don't have my book here but it was one of Cranach's generic Portraits of a Young Woman. Will look to see if there's a more specific reference or citation for the painting when I get home. It's in the Cranach book by Max Friedlander and Jakob Rosenberg. --annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 18:30:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HNUDSd031799 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:30:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HMRDcP021086; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:27:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HMR91D088900; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:27:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HMR61D088849 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:27:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from scourney@nwlink.com) Received: from susan (ip157.usw235.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [207.202.235.157]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 14E1F6D9DA; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:27:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <00ec01c40c6f$80ad4a00$0200a8c0@susan> From: "Susan" To: , References: <200403171539.AA61997260@thrednedlestrete.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] vintage aprons Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:30:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Vintage apron patterns aren't that hard to find. If she checks thift stores she should be able find some. She'll needs to check the odd ones that aren't the major pattern companies, as those are frequently aprons. There are also a couple of websites that sell older patterns. I've a bunch of patterns I've picked up at yard sales and so forth. Susan in Bellevue WA > a workmate of mine is interested in making some aprons from the 50's. Does anyone have any suggestions where she might find some photos of the same? > > Thanks, > > Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 18:36:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HNa2Sd031867 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:36:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HNZLcP027821; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:35:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HNZI1D037434; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:35:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imr-m05.mx.aol.com (imr-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.203]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HNZB1D037315 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:35:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.229]) by imr-m05.mx.aol.com (v97.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-44058df6ff2; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:29:51 -0500 Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.f2.38370cf0 (3940) for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:24:39 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:24:38 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] vintage aprons To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-AOL-IP: 172.18.150.229 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/17/2004 4:39:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com writes: > a workmate of mine is interested in making some aprons from the 50's. The 1950s I take it. There are tons of them in "women's Magazines" from the period. Most libraries carry mags back to the early part of the 20th century. As you flip through, look at advertisements, especially in this case for kitchen related things like food and appliances. And there's also Sears and other catalogues from the decade. Also at many libraries. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 18:37:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HNbMSd031888 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:37:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HMWbcP021648; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:32:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HMWZ1D092916; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:32:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HMWU1D092835 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:32:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2HMUGZ00581 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:30:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-4.155.21.88.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.88] helo=HELENPINTO) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B3jXG-0004wy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:29:15 -0800 Message-ID: <031b01c40c6f$2cb83770$c33c9b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200403171539.AA61997260@thrednedlestrete.com> <4058CA8C.8010506@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] vintage aprons Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:27:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef9ec05be7a15dc443b24054f225b495c7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > > a workmate of mine is interested in making some aprons from the 50's. Does anyone have any suggestions where she might find some photos of the same? > > Also, one of the "Big 4" pattern companies has reprinted a set of 50's-era patterns; I think it was Simplicity. It was in the most recent catalog. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 18:43:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HNh2Sd031929 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:43:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HNfAcP028401; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:41:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HNf91D041452; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:41:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf16.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf16.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.216]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HNf51D041387 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:41:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joedr@charter.net) Received: from charter.net (66.169.191.177.ts46v-16.otnh2.ftwrth.tx.charter.com [66.169.191.177]) by mxsf16.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2HNZdSe049902 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:35:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from joedr@charter.net) Message-ID: <4058E0C5.3987C316@charter.net> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:35:33 -0600 From: Joe Robertson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A doublet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My persona needs a new wardrobe that would be fitting for a noble from the scottish highlands of the early to mid 1500's. He's a gaelic and english speaker but due to his station in life, has fair wealth and travels. He does treasure his gaelic roots and is a supporter of the Stewart dynasty. Where might I find some good samples of what would be appropriate for this fellow to wear to town? I'm actually interested in head to foot and not just his jacket. I know many from his time dressed in the manner of the Irish, such as the big sleeved leine, ionar and the brat. Would his attire be in similar fashion? Always learning, Joe _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 20:12:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2I1C2Sd032331 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:12:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I1B2cP004128; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I1Aw1D092735; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:10:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes1.whowhere.com [209.202.220.218]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2I1Av1D092697 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:10:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:10:42 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:10:42 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] more from Swedens Gustavians X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.65 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh Bjarne, I'm so envious that you get to go to these wonderful things! The costumes are lovely (many look to be silk at least) but I was really wanting to know where the wigs came from - many are fabulous! They couldn't be their real hair, could they? Cheers, Danielle --------- Original Message --------- >Hi. >Finally uploaded all 50 pictures from the Gustavian Society! > >Enjoy.............. > >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/spring_party_for_gustafs1.htm > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 21:41:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2I2fmSd032662 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:41:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I2f0cP008847; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:41:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I2ev1D036787; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:40:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I2et1D036777 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:40:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70DFE1D65A for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:40:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p395.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.141]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4CEEDD4B2 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:40:54 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: FW: [GermanRenCostume] Re: FW: [h-cost] black chemises-CranachPainting? Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:41:14 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is this the portrait? http://www.thrednedlestrete.com/morse/Illustrations.htm klick on young woman, by Cranach (the younger) If it is, I am wondering if the lacing is a wide ribbon. De -----Original Message----- This is not the one I was referencing. I don't have my book here but it was one of Cranach's generic Portraits of a Young Woman. Will look to see if there's a more specific reference or citation for the painting when I get home. It's in the Cranach book by Max Friedlander and Jakob Rosenberg. --annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 22:12:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2I3CESd000307 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:12:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I3BVcP010436; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:11:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I3BS1D067732; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:11:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I3BQ1E067712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:11:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2I3iXWm018227 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:44:34 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A35A3C80066; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:11:22 -0500 Received: from itsloaner3.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.122]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:11:22 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <001201c40c97$78ce5680$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] vintage aprons Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:16:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a fantastic apron pattern collection from this period; it is made up of commercial patterns as well as 'newspaper patterns' from the smaller companies like Farm Journals. What style(s) are you interested in? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] vintage aprons > In a message dated 3/17/2004 4:39:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, > Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com writes: > > > a workmate of mine is interested in making some aprons from the 50's. > > The 1950s I take it. > > There are tons of them in "women's Magazines" from the period. Most libraries > carry mags back to the early part of the 20th century. As you flip through, > look at advertisements, especially in this case for kitchen related things like > food and appliances. > > And there's also Sears and other catalogues from the decade. Also at many > libraries. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 17 23:45:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2I4j8Sd000639 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:45:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I4gwcP015948; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:42:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I4gt1D022434; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:42:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.k12.hi.us (honu.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.214]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I4gq1D022390 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:42:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from makani (makani.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.195]) by smtp.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id A05F4506D8 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:38:36 -1000 (HST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:41:06 -1000 (HST) From: annora X-X-Sender: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: FW: [h-cost] black chemises-CranachPainting? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Is this the portrait? > > http://www.thrednedlestrete.com/morse/Illustrations.htm Nope, if you have access to _Lucas_Cranach_ by Max Friedlander and Jakob Rosenberg (revised edition, 1978), it's picture #171. I can't run it through my scanner but I've posted some blurry photos at http://www.flex.com/~lkl/cranach/cranach1.jpg and http://www.flex.com/~lkl/cranach/cranach2.jpg The catalogue text is not too helpful but here's what it says: PORTRAIT OF A YOUNG LADY About 1525. Marked at bottom right. Limewood panel, 42.5 x 27.5 cm (16 3/4 x 10 3/4 inches). It has not yet been clearly established whether this and the related group of female portraits (see following numbers) are bona fide portraits or merely ideal types. A study in oil of three girls' heads in the Royal Institution of Cornwall at Truro [171A] is of about the same vintage (Dodgson 1908, ill), as is a portrait of a young woman [171B[ 14 cm (5 1/2 inches) round, not signed, in Aix-en-Provence, Musee Granet (exhib Basle 1974, cat nr 185, fig 150.) LITERATURE Exhib Erfurt 1903, cat nr 171. Friedlander 19505A, p 13. F-R 1932, nr 146. COLLECTION De Hartekamp near Haarlem, Frau von Pannwitz coll (1932). Vienna, Dr a . Figdor coll (auctioned at Berlin, Sept 29, 1930, lot 100). florence, Count Ruccellai. So according to that, this might not be a portrait of an actual person and the clothing is not necessarily correct. I'm not willing to definitively say that the garment underneath the laced on gown is indeed her shift, although Cranach gowns more usually have that opaque plastron under the lacing. However, I have another couple of blurry plates from the same book, also without a plastron where you can see the pleats/gathers under the lacing. Both of those underdresses are white. http://www.flex.com/~lkl/cranach/cranach3.jpg http://www.flex.com/~lkl/cranach/cranach4.jpg http://www.flex.com/~lkl/cranach/cranach5.jpg Caution though, 3 and 4 are Judith and 5 is Mary Magdalene so the clothing may not be representative of what real people wore either. It doesn't show but there are also gathers above Judith's breast band; looks to be gathered to the neck. Gotta point out, the quality of the gathers above and below the breast band is different. It's finer above the band although I suppose if you actually did lace on a gown that way things would get mushed below the lacing. Also, both Judith and MM's garments are gathered to the neck. The dark colored one is gathered to a band across the upper chest. Other things-- -In almost all of the pictures in this book, the areas showing through slits/slashes in the sleeves is dark, even if the underdress is white so the dark areas in cranach1.jpg don't really give evidence one way or another. -If the shift was meant to be the garment that was subjected to boiling or other harsh laundry treatment, how likely would people have been to waste dye on it? -In all 450+ pictures in the book, there is only that one that clearly shows an underdress of that dark a color. For people who've done a lot of research into 16c German, do you think that's her shift or would there be another layer worn beneath that? --annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 00:41:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2I5fSSd001015 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:41:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I5e1cP019522; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I5dx1D047287; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:39:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2I5dv1D047277 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:39:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 24370 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2004 05:39:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21) (66.205.128.60) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2004 05:39:07 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040317212527.01050958@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:39:54 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] A doublet In-Reply-To: <4058E0C5.3987C316@charter.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK2 0.31-29 ip=66.205.128.60 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:35 PM 3/17/2004 -0600, you wrote: > My persona needs a new wardrobe that would be fitting for a noble >from the scottish highlands of the early to mid 1500's. He's a gaelic >and english speaker but due to his station in life, has fair wealth and >travels. He does treasure his gaelic roots and is a supporter of the >Stewart dynasty. > Where might I find some good samples of what would be appropriate for >this fellow to wear to town? I'm actually interested in head to foot and >not just his jacket. I know many from his time dressed in the manner of >the Irish, such as the big sleeved leine, ionar and the brat. Would his >attire be in similar fashion? >Always learning, >Joe There was no special style of dress for nobles from the highlands when they came "to town", so to speak. They wore fashionable dress to the extent that they could afford it. During the early to mid 1500s, the Scots maintained the Auld Alliance with France, so there was a great deal of French influence in upper-class dress styles. James IV married Margaret Tudor, sister to Henry VIII of England, but with James's death at Flodden, English influence did not last. Pride in your heritage would be shown more in the types of retainers you had (your "tail"), e.g., a harper, a bard to recount your heritage, etc., than in the style of clothes you wear at court. Back home in the highlands you could dress in the "country style", but you would never do that in court. Sine Ni Mharbhen Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 01:38:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2I6ccSd001243 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:38:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I6bwcP022665; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:37:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I6bt1D071562; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:37:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I6br1D071542 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:37:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC0091D0C4 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:37:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p180.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.182]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2AA89C424 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:37:51 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: FW: [h-cost] black chemises-CranachPainting? Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:37:51 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have seen this picture on line somewhere, in color but I can't find the link. De -----Original Message----- Nope, if you have access to _Lucas_Cranach_ by Max Friedlander and Jakob Rosenberg (revised edition, 1978), it's picture #171. I can't run it through my scanner but I've posted some blurry photos at http://www.flex.com/~lkl/cranach/cranach1.jpg and http://www.flex.com/~lkl/cranach/cranach2.jpg The catalogue text is not too helpful but here's what it says: PORTRAIT OF A YOUNG LADY About 1525. Marked at bottom right. Limewood panel, 42.5 x 27.5 cm (16 3/4 x 10 3/4 inches). It has not yet been clearly established whether this and the related group of female portraits (see following numbers) are bona fide portraits or merely ideal types. A study in oil of three girls' heads in the Royal Institution of Cornwall at Truro [171A] is of about the same vintage (Dodgson 1908, ill), as is a portrait of a young woman [171B[ 14 cm (5 1/2 inches) round, not signed, in Aix-en-Provence, Musee Granet (exhib Basle 1974, cat nr 185, fig 150.) LITERATURE Exhib Erfurt 1903, cat nr 171. Friedlander 19505A, p 13. F-R 1932, nr 146. COLLECTION De Hartekamp near Haarlem, Frau von Pannwitz coll (1932). Vienna, Dr a . Figdor coll (auctioned at Berlin, Sept 29, 1930, lot 100). florence, Count Ruccellai. So according to that, this might not be a portrait of an actual person and the clothing is not necessarily correct. I'm not willing to definitively say that the garment underneath the laced on gown is indeed her shift, although Cranach gowns more usually have that opaque plastron under the lacing. However, I have another couple of blurry plates from the same book, also without a plastron where you can see the pleats/gathers under the lacing. Both of those underdresses are white. http://www.flex.com/~lkl/cranach/cranach3.jpg http://www.flex.com/~lkl/cranach/cranach4.jpg http://www.flex.com/~lkl/cranach/cranach5.jpg Caution though, 3 and 4 are Judith and 5 is Mary Magdalene so the clothing may not be representative of what real people wore either. It doesn't show but there are also gathers above Judith's breast band; looks to be gathered to the neck. Gotta point out, the quality of the gathers above and below the breast band is different. It's finer above the band although I suppose if you actually did lace on a gown that way things would get mushed below the lacing. Also, both Judith and MM's garments are gathered to the neck. The dark colored one is gathered to a band across the upper chest. Other things-- -In almost all of the pictures in this book, the areas showing through slits/slashes in the sleeves is dark, even if the underdress is white so the dark areas in cranach1.jpg don't really give evidence one way or another. -If the shift was meant to be the garment that was subjected to boiling or other harsh laundry treatment, how likely would people have been to waste dye on it? -In all 450+ pictures in the book, there is only that one that clearly shows an underdress of that dark a color. For people who've done a lot of research into 16c German, do you think that's her shift or would there be another layer worn beneath that? --annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 04:08:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2I98lSd028081 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 04:08:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I97UcP028346; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 02:07:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I97Q1D032421; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 02:07:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay8-f68.bay8.hotmail.com [64.4.27.68]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2I97N1D032349 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 02:07:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caithlinn@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:50:01 -0800 Received: from 130.102.116.207 by by8fd.bay8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:49:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [130.102.116.207] X-Originating-Email: [caithlinn@hotmail.com] X-Sender: caithlinn@hotmail.com From: "Cornelia Muncke" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:49:59 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Mar 2004 08:50:01.0857 (UTC) FILETIME=[00230710:01C40CC6] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Open surcote again X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Thank you very much Robin, for your comments. Sorry, I don't have webspace myself, but I found an image online under: http://www.sbg.ac.at/ger/samson/samsonarchiv/trattnerbilder/bild14.jpg The resolution is not the greatest, but you can see the general picture. As to the date of the statues, there was a lecture in 2001 at the University of Salzburg in Austria, dealing with art at the court of Rudolf IV, a son of Johanna and Albrecht II, who commissioned the extensions of the Stephansdom in 1359. He also commissioned the four statues on the western front, his parents and his parents-in-law. This lecture can be read online, but it's in German. The link is http://www.sbg.ac.at/ger/samson/samsonarchiv/trattner2001.pdf Irma Trattner (who wrote the lecture) states that there is no doubt that all four statues where produced between 1359 and 1365. She doesn't give a source for it, but I assume there will be, since I doubt such a statement would be made in a University lecture if there wasn't. Anyway, she states there was a discussion about Albrecht's II statue being executed in the 15th century in a sort of "retro 14th century look". This has apparently been proven wrong by L. Schultes (Author of Die Plastik in: Geschichte der bildenden Kunst in Oesterreich.....I can provide full details for anyone who is interested). There is actually the current theory that all four statues were made for a royal convention in 1353, where Rudolf IV apparently already recruited artisans to work on the Stephansdom. The leading sculptor is said to be the Michaelian Master, educated in Italy.... This is just a short summary of the pages in question, but all evidence seems to point to a date before 1365, rather then later. I completely agree that the shape of the "plastron/whatever" is not in line with most other surcotes at the time. Other open surcote images though, particularly the Jeanne de Bourbon statue, have a skirt gathered into the hip part of the plastron and some other surcotes a little later have quite narrow plastrons with decorations. And on the other hand, there is the italian fresco with the girl who seems to be wearing a different coloured skirt to the bodice and also seems to have a lot more fabric in the skirt, so probably a seam at the hipline (Andrea da Firenze, The Church Militant and Triumphant, 1365-68) and the MOL Textiles and clothing also refers to a gathered panel, however, it's not certain that they were skirt pieces, so that might not count. I was just curious as to how much is known about this particular dress, since I think it could be a surcote, giving the way it looks, but there's the "overdress" belt happening..... Thanks for your thoughts, I'm grateful for more.... Caithlinn _________________________________________________________________ Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar – FREE! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 07:45:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2ICjBSd032348 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:45:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ICgYcP006419; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:42:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ICgR1D013730; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:42:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fmailm1.svr.pol.co.uk (fmailm1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.217]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ICgP1D013715 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:42:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hbgd103@soton.ac.uk) Received: from [195.92.193.20] (helo=tmailm1.svr.pol.co.uk) by fmailm1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1B3waG-00048Y-3c for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:25:12 +0000 Received: from modem-124.awesome.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.25.128.124] helo=soton.ac.uk) by tmailm1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1B3wa7-0003jh-I3 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:25:04 +0000 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:26:17 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Hilary Davidson To: Historical Costume Message-Id: <74773328-78D7-11D8-A026-000A9567E116@soton.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Hand embroidered silks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2ICjBSd032348 Status: RO Hi all, In this month's World of Interiors magazine, there is an article on Beaumont & Fletcher's new line of hand-embroidered reproduction eighteenth century silk fabrics. Very, very beautiful, and yours from a mere £135 to £875 per metre..... They don't give a website, but the magazine photos are pretty good. Sigh. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 09:32:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IEW1iF002217 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:32:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IETKcP011159; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:29:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IETI1D061357; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:29:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14009.mail.yahoo.com (web14009.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2IETF1D061331 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:29:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040318142914.178.qmail@web14009.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14009.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:29:14 GMT Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:29:14 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] A doublet To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4058E0C5.3987C316@charter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Most of the Scottish Nobility, but not all were more influenced by the French than English in manners and dress. for a supporter of the Stewarts this would be especially true. The few portraits that can be reliably dated to the early 1500's, i.e young James VI, show men in doublets, trunk hose, etc, pretty much like the nobility dressed in Spain and France. There are several contemporary accounts denouncing Scots Nobles for their lack of fashion sense in that they insisted on wearing their 'bonnets' even to court. I don't have the actual reference at hand right now. But there is also a hint that their clothing may have been 10-15 years behind current fashion. There are a lot of paintings showing various nobles in 'tartans' but these appear to be Victorian productions. Catalina (married to a descendant of Duncan Eryvine) --- Joe Robertson wrote: > My persona needs a new wardrobe that would be > fitting for a noble > from the scottish highlands of the early to mid > 1500's. He's a gaelic > and english speaker but due to his station in life, > has fair wealth and > travels. He does treasure his gaelic roots and is a > supporter of the > Stewart dynasty. > Where might I find some good samples of what > would be appropriate for > this fellow to wear to town? I'm actually interested > in head to foot and > not just his jacket. I know many from his time > dressed in the manner of > the Irish, such as the big sleeved leine, ionar and > the brat. Would his > attire be in similar fashion? > Always learning, > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 09:37:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IEbWiF002248 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:37:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IEapcP011577; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:36:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IEap1D065426; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:36:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14009.mail.yahoo.com (web14009.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2IEZn1D064731 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:35:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040318143547.2428.qmail@web14009.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14009.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:35:47 GMT Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:35:47 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] more from Swedens Gustavians To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002901c40c66$fc841a90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I really like the look at the man in the salmon coloured coat with the gold trim. I wish I knew more about this period to know how accurate that is. Thank you for posting these. Catalina. --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi. > Finally uploaded all 50 pictures from the Gustavian > Society! > > Enjoy.............. > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/spring_party_for_gustafs1.htm > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 09:53:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IErmiF002375 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:53:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IEr8cP012478; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:53:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IEr31D075053; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:53:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IEr11D075025 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:53:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu (vcs077.vet.cornell.edu [128.253.111.77]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2IEqx2c016743 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:52:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040318091719.01762b00@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:53:03 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: <4058E0C5.3987C316@charter.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:A doublet (long) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Joe... OK... a couple of things for you to consider... At this time it wasn't so much a question of supporting the Stewarts, although political questions of Mary's legitimacy do arise in Edinburgh but that's another story... It's really a question of where do your religious leanings lie. Is your persona Catholic - hence a supporter of Mary, and probably with exposure to the French court. Or is your persona Protestant - hence a supporter of Knox, and a follower of the austerity in fashion. Hint, most Highland nobles were staunchly Catholic. And there was/is a strong cultural difference between highland and the "lallands". Again that's a different post. SO, bearing all that in mind... it really isn't a question of cut of the doublet so much... as it is a question of materials and decoration. Supporters of Mary tended to wear more liberal or "gay" clothing than the Knoxians including patterned silks, damasks, bright colors, slashing etc. Check out the Lord High Treasurers (Exchequers) roles from Scotland at the time to find out how Mary was spending her money... Although, keep in mind in the early years of her reign, and for a long time at the end she wore mourning. So you might find a heavy skew of black, grey, and purple items.... Knoxians were all into sobriety. Not necessarily self denial - as long as it looked sober. So a black velvet doublet would probably fly as long as it was not pinked, or slashed, or overly done with folderol. (trim) Plain woolen is the most likely material for the Knox supporters, dark colors, black, grey, brown, perhaps blue or murray (?) but I'm not going to swear to those. Places to check out are the surmons of John Knox, and Philip Stubbes "Anatomie of Abuses" - they spent alot of time railing against what the other folks were wearing, and advocating plainness. And lastly... for the cut and construction go look at Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion" ... As for the Irish question... not really. There was a series of battles - Not really a 'war' more like attempts to subdue the Irish. OK I guess that counts as a war... by the English at the time. And there is a very famous picture of an Englishman "gone native" in his efforts to subdue the enemy. Don't buy it as historical evidence of anything. Except as a very good example of historical "political pr". There is a lot of "context" that goes with that painting... And again that's another post. If you have other evidence though - I'd be thrilled to see it. Ways to demonstrate your highlandness through your dress... hmmm... A brooch or pin perhaps.... Silver is common in the highlands, but the MacFadden family is known to be goldsmiths all the way back to the mid 1400s. Please - no modern kilt pins, the oversize baby pin or the sword, and please none of those huge round brooches that the highland dancers wear for their plaids, oh and not a "cap badge" as sold by the scottish purveyors. A grouse foot?? I don't know. Seems pretty Victorian in origin to me. But a pheasant feather in your cap is certainly appropriate. The cap could be a flat cap... knitted or made of a fabric - again see Arnold. The cap may seem to "English" to you... but they were ubiquitious, and add a feather and a brooch and you suddenly have a bit of the highlands ... OK. I've gone on far too long. If you have any other questions... just ping. Bridgette mka. Mari Stewart - former piper, highland dancer, and purveyor of Scottish goods. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 10:09:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IF9JiF002463 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:09:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IF8QcP013401; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:08:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IF8N1D083586; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:08:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IF8K1D083539 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:08:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24867 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:39:32 -0600 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:39:32 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Open surcote again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Cornelia Muncke wrote: > Thank you very much Robin, for your comments. Sorry, I don't have > webspace myself, but I found an image online under: > http://www.sbg.ac.at/ger/samson/samsonarchiv/trattnerbilder/bild14.jpg > The resolution is not the greatest, but you can see the general > picture. And something that both of us neglected to point out earlier for the benefit of others reading this thread: Both of the statues (including one not in the online image) are in Newton, p. 95, with discussion on pp. 94-96. (Newton seems much more interested in the headgear, though.) > As to the date of the statues, there was a lecture in 2001 at the > University of Salzburg in Austria, dealing with art at the court of > Rudolf IV, a son of Johanna and Albrecht II, who commissioned the > extensions of the Stephansdom in 1359. ... Irma Trattner (who wrote > the lecture) states that there is no doubt that all four statues where > produced between 1359 and 1365. She doesn't give a source for it, but > I assume there will be, since I doubt such a statement would be made > in a University lecture if there wasn't. At this point I feel compelled to point out, for purposes of information, that there is plenty said in University lectures that is theory only. It is considered customary for a researcher to present a "case" for his/her particular theory in lecture form, often before an esteemed audience. Someone else may present a contrary case elsewhere. Each of them will probably sound equally compelling and certain. This is how academic discussion takes place -- a lecture here, a paper there. For that matter, the same can be said for many books. Academic thinking on any given idea may be constantly undergoing change, and many ideas can probably never be "proven." I have also noticed that it seems more customary among European researchers to state theories as fact, for rhetorical purposes; Americans tend to be more diffident and to sprinkle in more phrases like "I would suggest that..." This is a stylistic difference that often trips up students who may attribute more certainty to one theory over another based on the language and attitude of the presenter. All of this is not meant to argue about the dating on the statues, about which I know absolutely nothing, and I have no particular reason to question Trattner's statements. But the fact that she is building a case and also that there has been some discussion of alternative dates suggests to me that there is room for debate -- and that debate is occurring. She may very well be right, but the fact that it's presented at a University lecture doesn't have much to do with that, one way or the other! > There is actually the current theory that all four statues were made > for a royal convention in 1353, where Rudolf IV apparently already > recruited artisans to work on the Stephansdom. The leading sculptor is > said to be the Michaelian Master, educated in Italy.... Tha strikes me as important. Italian styles (both in fashion and in stonecarving) would have been quite different from those further north at this time, and some discrepancies in presentation may reflect the use of Italian mode. It's a better explanation than some of the others! > I completely agree that the shape of the "plastron/whatever" is not in > line with most other surcotes at the time. Other open surcote images > though, particularly the Jeanne de Bourbon statue, have a skirt > gathered into the hip part of the plastron... This is a little off-track as I think we both feel that the Vienna statues are probably not sideless surcotes. However, I should note that the skirt of the Jeanne de Bourbon statue does not appear to be gathered into the fur band at the hips (though it is commonly assumed as such). A close look will show that the fur band folds and "bends" into the same folds as the skirt falling below it, indicating that the fur is a decoration applied to the fabric of the skirt, rather than the skirt being gathered into the fur band. This is unfortunately not clear from the somewhat washed-out image in Payne, fig. 209 (of the first edition). A clearer image appears on p. 76 of a coffee-table picture book called "The Lives of the Kings and Queens of France" by Duc de Castries, for anyone interested. I have taken slides of the statue from the Louvre, but I confess I haven't been through them yet and probably won't have time to do so for the next couple of months, so maybe I will have to eat these words if they show something different. (Anyone who is interested, jog me in June or later to look these up.) It does appear that on the front of the surcote, the folds emerge from under the plastron. This could be interpreted as gathering into the plastron, but based on the folding on the sides and the placement of the plastron as a separate piece over the side fur bands, I would give an alternate reading: That the surcote was cut as one fabric from shoulder to floor, in a particular cut that allows the skirt to fall in folds all the way around, and trimmed with fur on the side openings; and then the plastron was laid over the top, so at the bottom it falls over the folds of the dress front, and is then either tacked down over them or left free to lie on top of them, with the front jeweled band hanging even lower in front of *that*. Practical experimentation bears out that this is a far more manageable way to achieve the look and the folding patterns than trying to gather or pleat the skirt into a fur "bodice." (Those of you on the list who have seen me demonstrate my preferred surcote cut will know what I mean; it's a lot more dramatic in person!) But this probably has nothing to do with the Vienna statues. > And on the other hand, there is the italian fresco with the girl who > seems to be wearing a different coloured skirt to the bodice and also > seems to have a lot more fabric in the skirt, so probably a seam at > the hipline (Andrea da Firenze, The Church Militant and Triumphant, > 1365-68) This is why I could swallow the idea of a hipline seam easier if it came via Italy. Though I don't think the statues necessarily show hipline seams; it's hard to tell from the pictures in the book whether the small hint at the front of one of them could simply be natural folding from a flare, though Newton wants to see it as controlled cartridge pleating. > and the MOL Textiles and clothing also refers to a gathered panel, > however, it's not certain that they were skirt pieces, so that might > not count. Even the MOL people aren't really certain about this find, and there are quite a few people (including me) who consider it unlikely that these are skirt panels. If I had to make a guess, I'd suggest that it's more likely that these are the remnants of a child's cloak or perhaps a worker's apron. In addition to the structure and size of the pieces themselves (rather small!) it seems a lot more likely to me that a child would lose a cloak in the Thames on a windy day, or that an apron would fall from where it lay on, say, the back of a moving cart, or that either would be tossed into the garbage after it became too worn, than that someone would lose a dress, of which the entire skirt appears to have survived in near proximity, but the bodice is nowhere to be found. But that's just random speculation, and I haven't seen the pieces myself. The point being merely that I agree this is not a good piece of evidence on which to base a case for hipline seams in the 14th c. Back to the Vienna statues: Two more points that are worth following, if you care to do more investigation on this, are status and region. On the first, we should note that the people in question are queens, and their dress would be designed to indicate that status -- possibly being more sumptuous even than worn in life, or to include outdated or exotic elements designed to scream to the viewer of the time that these are not regular folks. That means the dress would definitely not be a suitable model for non-royal clothing, and it might also be non-representative of what the queens wore in life. As for region, it might be worth looking East instead of West for things like front vertical embellishments, particularly on royalty and figures such as angels. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 11:37:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IGb6iF003055 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:37:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IGaLcP021632; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:36:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IGZx1D044274; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:35:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IGZs1D044232 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:35:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.46]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B3zLM-0003d8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:22:00 -0800 Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B3zLL-0004YC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:21:59 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: FW: [h-cost] black chemises-CranachPainting? Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:21:56 -0700 Message-ID: <000201c40cfc$c1c40f00$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/MI01488F07a.jpg Here is another possible example. Now, I must warn you that the picture is not dated, and smells of "Later" to me. Also the description says Portrait of a woman in Renaissance "garb" or fashion.. I can find no reference to Huelleshoven the artist. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 12:51:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IHpfiF003654 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:51:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IHc3cP027785; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:38:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IHbx1D090295; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:38:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IHbr1D090251 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:37:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2IHR4e17100 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:27:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0184.dialsprint.net ([63.186.144.184]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B41IM-0004Ex-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:27:03 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:27:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] vintage aprons From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <031b01c40c6f$2cb83770$c33c9b04@HELENPINTO> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 3/17/04 5:27 PM, Helen Pinto at hpinto@mindspring.com wrote: >> Lisa Sinervo wrote: >> >>> a workmate of mine is interested in making some aprons from the 50's. > Does anyone have any suggestions where she might find some photos of the > same? >>> > > Also, one of the "Big 4" pattern companies has reprinted a set of 50's-era > patterns; I think it was Simplicity. It was in the most recent catalog. > -Helen/Aidan > It's probably McCall's "Fashion Accessories", #3979. This includes two full aprons and three "hostess" half-aprons. The full aprons are somewhat over the top (most of my grandmother's and mother's were all one piece and these are pieced and have rather fancy shapes) but are pretty credible. I used this pattern as the basis for a plainer apron I needed for a costume--it was easy to simplify and otherwise adapt. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar-gypsy and amateur costumer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 13:06:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2II61iF003762 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:06:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IHrfcP029464; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:53:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IHrd1D002045; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:53:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IHrY1D001943 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:53:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 826567 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:53:27 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:53:27 -0800 From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Thanks - haberject X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you all for the really interesting discussion regarding the word "haberject." I forwarded every message to my husband who is digesting it into one big document to send it to the original list where the question arose. He was not really surprised how great the responses are on this list to such out of the ordinary topic. LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 15:01:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IK1TiF005608 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:01:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IK0JcP011013; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:00:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IK0B1D094067; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:00:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail3.mdx.safepages.com (mail3.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IK091D094025 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:00:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38457892B7 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:37:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail3.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail3.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 99318-05 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:37:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id EC8CA8927B; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:37:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust2.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.2]) by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AECAA8927B for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:37:03 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <01d301c40d20$8f110b70$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <74773328-78D7-11D8-A026-000A9567E116@soton.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:38:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Black chemises X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just sent this to the GermanRenCostume group, but since it explains more clearly what I'm looking for and the conversation is going on in both places, I thought I'd post it here as well: -------------- First of all, any written mention of such a thing from c1450-c1540 would help ENORMOUSLY, including that black shirt thing. Even male garments! Second, while I'd be overjoyed to find anything Germanic, I'm actually focusing on Flanders and the bits of countries immediately bordering it. And third, here's WHY I'm looking for it. See, a certain style of dress seen c1475-c1525 (fitted square necked gowns, of the sort that evolved into the familiar early to mid 16thC Tudor style) has this feature that only makes sense structurally if a black chemise (or possibly a bizarre sort of tucker) is worn beneath the gown. These dresses are often lined with white fur (not necessarily ermine) which peeks out over the top of the neckline. Beneath that, you often see what at first glance looks like a band of black trim edging the neckline. In German and Dutch areas, this often actually IS applied black fabric, but on many of the French and Flemish gowns, it can't be, because of that fur peeking out. Structurally speaking, you'd have to have applied the black trim to the fur side of the lining, which ...just doesn't work. (I even tried it, with an ermine pelt. Nightmare.) It is possible to add this as trim, by adding an extra strip of fur at the neckline, but that's just silly and impractical when the rest of the gown is already fur-lined-- although it would have a function, as it would protect the fur from skin oils in a spot that the underdress wouldn't quite cover. Whatever it is, it's not an undergown, because in many of the depictions the undergown is clearly shown, and it's not black. Here's an example: http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/1512france.jpg While this is obviously allegorical, it's a good demonstration of the various elements I keep seeing in non-allegorical images: the gown is clearly lined in ermine, which peeks out over the top at the neck, and the undergown is clearly blue, not black. Yet at the neck, there's about a 1 inch deep border of black. Because the unknown thing in question is black, I just can't see enough detail in any of the portraits that show it to figure out exactly what's going on. However, at around the same time (c1500-c1530) portraits show an almost identical thing--except in these, the thing in question is white, and it's almost certainly a chemise whose neckline mimics that of the overdress. Every portrait of Catherine of Aragon, for example, shows this. Here are a few paintings from a very quick search: http://www.marileecody.com/aragon1.jpg (this gown is most like those I'm dealing with) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/cathyold1.jpg http://www.marileecody.com/kofa-monkey.jpg And this one doesn't quite show it, but brings up questions about my theory: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/m/master/yunk_en/boleyn.html In this, the edge stitching indicates that it might NOT be a separate chemise--interesting, but it's enough later in date that the actual garment may have evolved into a simple edging. The last painting aside, if I were to make that garment, in black, I'd get exactly the effect I'm seeing. But BLACK, for an undermost garment? I'd feel a LOT better if I had something more solid than "well, it just doesn't work any other way!" -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 16:28:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2ILSniF006444 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:28:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ILREcP018497; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:27:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ILRB1D057841; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:27:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ILR61D057778 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:27:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 896D41D160 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:27:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p271.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.17]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C228C423 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:27:05 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:27:06 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <01d301c40d20$8f110b70$0400a8c0@compaqub> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Cathy/ Black chemises X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The squiggle white band is embroidery on the chemise. The pearl and gem border looks to be on the underdress. The pale color on the shoulders are a part of the sleeve of the overdress, pulled back and pinned to the shoulder, exposing the lining. The gold sleeves are called false sleeves. They cover the wrist to the elbow or a few inches above the elbow. De -----Original Message----- (this gown is most like those I'm dealing with) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/cathyold1.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 16:38:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2ILc3iF006521 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:38:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ILbLcP019531; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:37:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ILbI1D065434; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:37:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ILbC1D065381 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:37:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 376C61D314 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:37:11 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p271.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.17]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0DEFBC4E3 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:37:09 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:37:10 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <01d301c40d20$8f110b70$0400a8c0@compaqub> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE:monkey/ Black chemises X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The piece near the neck that has bows is a partlett. the white with black dots is the chemise. The white dots on black are probably pearls sewn to the over dress. The ermine lining of the sleeves are exposed by being pulled back and connected to the shoulder region. She is wearing false sleeves that match her bodice. De -----Original Message----- http://www.marileecody.com/kofa-monkey.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 16:42:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2ILgJiF006586 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:42:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IL72cP016548; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IL6w1D043030; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:06:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IL6t1D042994 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:06:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3A8E1D2FA for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:06:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p271.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.17]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6AF25C5D6 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:06:53 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: FW: [h-cost] black chemises-CranachPainting? Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:06:54 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <000201c40cfc$c1c40f00$6a01a8c0@SG01> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This portrait has a date of 1941. I tend to call garments Germanic more than German because Germany was several principalities. Garments varied some from principalty to Principality. The front of her outfit looks like a fur under bodice. This is the first time I have seen fur on the outside like that( don't mean they didn't do that, it's just a bit odd to me). The over bodice meets/ is closed in the front. The darker section under the hand looks to be a band of velvet ribbon that runs down the front. Though there is a slim possibility that this is a reproduction dress from an original or several originals, I would say that this would not be what I would base 1500's dress on. >From what I understand there is a debate among costumers as to what the "white" section is (that has the lacing on top). Some have said it is an under dress with a with border on top. Others the chemise with a wide band on top. And still other say it is a corset. I myself am inclined to believe all the above. De -----Original Message----- http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/MI01488F07a.jpg Here is another possible example. Now, I must warn you that the picture is not dated, and smells of "Later" to me. Also the description says Portrait of a woman in Renaissance "garb" or fashion.. I can find no reference to Huelleshoven the artist. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 16:48:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2ILm9iF006706 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:48:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ILlPcP020421; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:47:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ILlN1D072820; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:47:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ILlI1D072749 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:47:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 576AC1D36A for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:47:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p271.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.17]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 47CB2C4E3 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:47:16 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:47:17 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <01d301c40d20$8f110b70$0400a8c0@compaqub> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE:Last portrait/ Black chemises X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It was customary for the necklaces to fall under the chemise. The chemise is embroidered with black floss and edged in what appears to be picoting/needlelace. Then the jeweled border on the overdress. De -----Original Message----- The last painting aside, if I were to make that garment, in black, I'd get exactly the effect I'm seeing. But BLACK, for an undermost garment? I'd feel a LOT better if I had something more solid than "well, it just doesn't work any other way!" -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 17:07:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IM7DiF006822 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:07:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IM4IcP022268; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:04:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IM4G1D084980; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:04:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail9.mdx.safepages.com (mail9.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IM4A1D084937 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:04:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail9.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CFB0183285 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:04:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail9.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail9.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 68769-04 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:04:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail9.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 4218418318C; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:04:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust126.tnt4.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.207.126]) by mail9.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4D8921836C5 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:56:56 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <01f901c40d34$2abc9900$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:monkey/ Black chemises Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:58:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In each case it is the chemise I'm talking about; if it were black, it would be the garment I'm seeking. It's not; it's white, but this illustrates the specific garment. -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 17:21:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IMLuiF007017 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:21:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IMHOcP023473; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:17:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IMHN1D094542; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:17:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IMHD1D094344 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:17:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7F4842615 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:31:57 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <405A21DC.3000003@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:25:32 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: FW: [h-cost] black chemises-CranachPainting? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO otsisto wrote: > This portrait has a date of 1941. That's the acquisition date, when the museum purchased it. Just means that the picture is older than that. > > -----Original Message----- > > http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/MI01488F07a.jpg > > Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 17:39:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IMdWiF007216 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:39:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IMcfcP025261; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:38:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IMcZ1D009407; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:38:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IMcW1D009372 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:38:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0C361D500 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:38:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p271.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.17]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B215FD48C for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:38:30 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:38:32 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <01d301c40d20$8f110b70$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Flanders was: Black chemises X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you are looking for Flanders style of clothing, Anne of Cleves is from Flanders and is within the time period you speak, only the style of dress is different from the English tudor style. http://tudorhistory.org/cleves/clevesnew.jpg There is a costumer who has sewn her interpretation of this dress but in blue(?)don't have the link at this time. De -----Original Message----- I'm actually focusing on Flanders and the bits of countries immediately bordering it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 17:40:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IMeFiF007220 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:40:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IMdUcP025338; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:39:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IMdS1D010029; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:39:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IMdQ1D010008 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:39:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6C931D23B for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:39:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p271.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.17]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 95F45D3F3 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:39:24 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Black chemises Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:39:25 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <01d301c40d20$8f110b70$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The blue sleeves, in my opinion are false sleeves and not the sleeves of the underdress. The black band is either the underdress or an embroidered band attached to the chemise. De PS. Will keep my eyes open for colored chemises. -----Original Message----- Here's an example: http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/1512france.jpg While this is obviously allegorical, it's a good demonstration of the various elements I keep seeing in non-allegorical images: the gown is clearly lined in ermine, which peeks out over the top at the neck, and the undergown is clearly blue, not black. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 17:58:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IMw7iF007337 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:58:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IMurcP026805; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:56:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IMup1D022316; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:56:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IMul1D022273 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:56:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2ILX8Z10877 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:33:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B458U-0000KY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:33:07 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: FW: [h-cost] black chemises-CranachPainting? Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:33:07 -0700 Message-ID: <000701c40d30$9aa173c0$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i2IMul1D022273 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This painting was purchased in 1941, not painted. And as I said it looks later, but how much later is unknown. If it was painted in the 1700's it may still be based on a real garment. Until you know the actual date of the painting, I wouldn't completely write it off. Fur had not occurred to me. I thought finely pleated velvet (there is at least one bodice where they did this, though not with velvet.) > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of otsisto > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:07 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: FW: [h-cost] black chemises-CranachPainting? > > This portrait has a date of 1941. I tend to call garments Germanic more than > German because Germany was several principalities. Garments varied some from > principalty to Principality. > The front of her outfit looks like a fur under bodice. This is the first > time I have seen fur on the outside like that( don't mean they didn't do > that, it's just a bit odd to me). The over bodice meets/ is closed in the > front. The darker section under the hand looks to be a band of velvet ribbon > that runs down the front. > Though there is a slim possibility that this is a reproduction dress from an > original or several originals, I would say that this would not be what I > would base 1500's dress on. > >From what I understand there is a debate among costumers as to what the > "white" section is (that has the lacing on top). Some have said it is an > under dress with a with border on top. Others the chemise with a wide band > on top. And still other say it is a corset. > I myself am inclined to believe all the above. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 17:58:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IMwsiF007343 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:58:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IMwEcP026916; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:58:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IMwB1D023232; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:58:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail7.mdx.safepages.com (mail7.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IMwA1D023215 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:58:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A0C8E5B4C for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:56:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail7.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail7.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 80026-09 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:56:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id E8961E4846; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:54:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust60.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.60]) by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C285AE4897 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:51:28 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <020901c40d3b$ba958850$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Black chemises Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:52:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's possible that in this specific case the sleeves are false. However, in several similar depictions, the skirt of the underdress is visible; the skirt matches the sleeves, and neither are black. I've considered the idea of black trim on a white chemise, and that may be the answer. However, there's no non-black analog, and there are no examples of anything at all similar. The closest thing would be embroidery, and the item in question bears no resemblance to embroidery. It's always pure and simple black; in order to be embroidery it would have to be an inch wide band of satin stitching, which would be just silly. -E ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" > The blue sleeves, in my opinion are false sleeves and not the sleeves of the > underdress. > The black band is either the underdress or an embroidered band attached to > the chemise. > > De > PS. Will keep my eyes open for colored chemises. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 18:08:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IN8IiF007385 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:08:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IN2mcP027316; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:02:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IN2Y1D026508; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:02:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m19.mx.aol.com (imo-m19.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IN2S1D026356 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:02:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.1de.1b092af2 (4320) for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:02:19 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1de.1b092af2.2d8b847a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:02:18 EST Subject: [h-cost] Early Period Bra Straps, or: What ARE those white things? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is something I have always wondered about, and have researched sporadically, and never found a really definitive answer on. http://www.npg.org.uk/live/search/portrait.asp?mkey=mw01144 What ARE those white straps??? I've seen them in so many early 16th century paintings and they even put some on Jane Seymour's country costume in the BBC Six Wives series, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what they are or what they're for. -Tiff Reflections*of*Worth on eBay "I have the right to remain silent ... I just don't have the ability." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 18:23:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2INNwiF007536 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:23:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2INNCcP029077; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:23:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2INN81D042197; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:23:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail7.mdx.safepages.com (mail7.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2INN51D042146 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:23:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A808E57B9 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:19:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail7.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail7.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21418-06 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:19:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 00F1BE4F91; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:15:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust60.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.60]) by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D5E0AE5A48 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:07:27 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <021601c40d3d$f641f3a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000701c40d30$9aa173c0$6a01a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: FW: [h-cost] black chemises-CranachPainting? Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:08:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've noticed that the Germans wear fur a lot less often in the late 15th and early 16th century than nearby regions, including regions whose climate was warmer. Does anyone know why? -E ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:33 PM Subject: RE: FW: [h-cost] black chemises-CranachPainting? > This painting was purchased in 1941, not painted. And as I said it looks > later, but how much later is unknown. If it was painted in the 1700's it > may still be based on a real garment. Until you know the actual date of the > painting, I wouldn't completely write it off. Fur had not occurred to me. > I thought finely pleated velvet (there is at least one bodice where they did > this, though not with velvet.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 18:27:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2INRKiF007558 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:27:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2INQNcP029380; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:26:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2INQJ1D047054; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:26:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2INQH1D047027 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:26:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1739313E1C7 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:21:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 58640-02 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:21:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 60EEB13EC81; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:57:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust60.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.60]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3B00813E976 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:55:28 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <021001c40d3c$47fc9170$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flanders was: Black chemises Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:56:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, but the Anne of Cleves dress is completely different from the style I focus on, which could be summed up as the million variations on square-necked gowns in France and Flanders. -E ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" > If you are looking for Flanders style of clothing, Anne of Cleves is from > Flanders and is within the time period you speak, only the style of dress is > different from the English tudor style. > http://tudorhistory.org/cleves/clevesnew.jpg > There is a costumer who has sewn her interpretation of this dress but in > blue(?)don't have the link at this time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 19:11:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J0BiiF007787 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:11:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J0B4cP003113; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:11:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J0B01D075998; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:11:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J0At1D075940 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:10:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.188]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B41JJ-0005Bi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:28:01 -0800 Received: from dialup-4.155.60.95.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.60.95] helo=HELENPINTO) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B41IJ-0000mr-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:27:00 -0800 Message-ID: <015c01c40d0e$1db1a0a0$5f3c9b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000201c40cfc$c1c40f00$6a01a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: FW: [h-cost] black chemises-CranachPainting? Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:25:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9efd0b17db499d96f5553ba759cb1c09037350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sg wrote: > Here is another possible example. Now, I must warn you that the picture is > not dated, and smells of "Later" to me. Also the description says Portrait > of a woman in Renaissance "garb" or fashion.. > > I can find no reference to Huelleshoven the artist. > Here's a reference to L. von Hulleshoven, 19c. artist (no further information, but this is a very long list of artists): http://www.comanducci.it/italiano/risultati.asp?ricerca=VON%20HULLESHOVEN%20L. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 19:12:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J0C9iF007796 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:12:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J0BYcP003155; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:11:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J0BX1D076355; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:11:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J0BC1D076133 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:11:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-238-155.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.238.155]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J0BBC2025938 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:11:11 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040318161005.04bd9f00@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:11:06 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early Period Bra Straps, or: What ARE those white things? In-Reply-To: <1de.1b092af2.2d8b847a@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >This is something I have always wondered about, and have researched >sporadically, and never found a really definitive answer on. > >http://www.npg.org.uk/live/search/portrait.asp?mkey=mw01144 > >What ARE those white straps??? I've seen them in so many early 16th century >paintings and they even put some on Jane Seymour's country costume in the BBC >Six Wives series, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what they are or >what they're for. We go around and around on this from time to time on this list, and nobody yet has reached an agreement of what they really are nor been able to document their original function either. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 19:21:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J0LOiF007897 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:21:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J0KjcP003801; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:20:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J0Ki1D081812; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:20:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J0Kf1D081765 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:20:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from casamai@sbcglobal.net) Received: from casamai (adsl-68-89-146-170.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net [68.89.146.170]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2INODs6013065 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:24:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001801c40d40$49f3d0c0$0c01a8c0@sbcglobal.net> From: "Bruce & Nora Mai" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1de.1b092af2.2d8b847a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:25:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] CostumeCon22 in Atlanta X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO CostumeCon 22 is coming up very soon - April 2-4 in Atlanta, GA. Is anyone from this list going to be there? Nora "Party like a Lizard, on the Drunken Iguana" www.casamai.com/slcg/pirates.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 20:36:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J1axiF008793 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:36:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J1aBcP008625; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:36:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J1a91D019960; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:36:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J1a71D019943 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:36:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.154] (pm5-154.eos.net [205.133.149.154]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J1a5We011897 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:36:05 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:35:54 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200403182327.i2INRE1E047652@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: black chemises X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In the dress you referred to here: "Here's an example: http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/1512france.jpg While this is obviously allegorical, it's a good demonstration of the various elements I keep seeing in non-allegorical images: the gown is clearly lined in ermine, which peeks out over the top at the neck, and the undergown is clearly blue, not black. Yet at the neck, there's about a 1 inch deep border of black." the black "border" looks to me like simply the top of the underdress, and not a chemise at all. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 21:36:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J2aSiF009131 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:36:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J2OqcP011417; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:24:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J2Oh1D042713; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:24:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lhasa.ucc.usyd.edu.au (lhasa.ucc.usyd.edu.au [129.78.64.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J2Of1D042689 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:24:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ktay0998@mail.usyd.edu.au) Received: from lhasa.ucc.usyd.edu.au (localhost.ucc.usyd.edu.au [127.0.0.1]) by lhasa-postfilter.ucc.usyd.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id D03CBAB2FF for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:07:32 +1100 (EST) Received: from lorica.ucc.usyd.edu.au (lorica.ucc.usyd.edu.au [129.78.64.15]) by lhasa.ucc.usyd.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF0B3ABF7A for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:07:32 +1100 (EST) Received: from pilum.ucc.usyd.edu.au (pilum.ucc.usyd.edu.au [129.78.64.178]) by lorica.ucc.usyd.edu.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J27WEl008490 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:07:32 +1100 (EST) Received: (from wwwmail@localhost) by pilum.ucc.usyd.edu.au (8.12.9/8.12.2) id i2J27Vsm011382 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:07:31 +1100 Received: from proxy2.epa.nsw.gov.au ( [proxy2.epa.nsw.gov.au]) as user ktay0998@imap.usyd.edu.au by www-mail.usyd.edu.au with HTTP; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:07:31 +1100 Message-ID: <1079662051.405a55e330434@www-mail.usyd.edu.au> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:07:31 +1100 From: Karinne Taylor To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: black chemises References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO But the underdress colour is blue, as can be seen on the sleeves. I think it might be a partlet/gollar with a square neck cut into it that sits under the overdress and under the (blue) underdress. Most evidence I've seen has these partlets as "V" necks, but it is possible that they could be cut as a square. Has any one else evidence of this, or other examples? Karinne Quoting Gail & Scott Finke : > > In the dress you referred to here: > >> "Here's an example: >> http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/1512france.jpg > > the black "border" looks to me like simply the top of the underdress, and > not a chemise at all. > > Gail Finke > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: www-mail.usyd.edu.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 18 22:55:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J3tuiF009568 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:55:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J3tCcP016551; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:55:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J3t91D082886; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:55:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J3sT1D082542 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:54:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sherylnd@kc.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com (CPE-65-30-107-115.kc.rr.com [65.30.107.115]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i2J3sJts001877 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:54:27 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20040318215506.00a25ad0@pop-server.kc.rr.com> X-Sender: sherylnd@pop-server.kc.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:56:40 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hand embroidered silks In-Reply-To: <74773328-78D7-11D8-A026-000A9567E116@soton.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i2J3sT1D082542 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Their website is http://www.beaumontandfletcher.com I didn't see any hand-embroidered fabrics, but the fabrics that they DO have listed are very pretty. Sheryl N-D At 12:26 PM 3/18/04 +0000, you wrote: >Hi all, > >In this month's World of Interiors magazine, there is an article on >Beaumont & Fletcher's new line of hand-embroidered reproduction eighteenth >century silk fabrics. Very, very beautiful, and yours from a mere £135 to >£875 per metre..... They don't give a website, but the magazine photos are >pretty good. >Sigh. > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 00:55:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J5tniF010892 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:55:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J5srcP022575; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:54:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J5sl1D032232; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:54:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay11-dav151.bay11.hotmail.com [64.4.39.181]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J5si1D032178 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:54:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:37:23 -0800 Received: from 4.10.36.229 by bay11-dav151.bay11.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 05:37:23 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.10.36.229] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <020901c40d3b$ba958850$0400a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Black chemises Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:37:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:37:28 -0500 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Mar 2004 05:37:23.0418 (UTC) FILETIME=[412EF3A0:01C40D74] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2J5tniF010892 Status: RO I've considered the idea of black trim on a white chemise, and that may be the answer. However, there's no non-black analog, and there are no examples of anything at all similar. The closest thing would be embroidery, and the item in question bears no resemblance to embroidery. It's always pure and simple black; in order to be embroidery it would have to be an inch wide band of satin stitching, which would be just silly. In Hispanic Costume 1480-1530, Ruth Anderson mentions some Spanish royal inventories where chemises were described as trimmed in colored ribbons or strips of fabric. Most of the royal ones were trimmed in gold but the Infanta Isabel had strips "of red silk on one linen chemise and of black silk on another." In 1479, a duchess "left a chemise of holland with insertions of crimson, gold and white." Of course, the Spanish had some very peculiar clothing in the Middle Ages but by the time you are interested in, Charles and his court were back and forth between Spain and Germany with some frequency. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 01:00:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J60GiF010951 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:00:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J5xecP022809; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:59:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J5xd1D034130; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:59:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J5xc1D034118 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:59:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-206-3.cvip.net [129.8.206.3]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2AEB1F06; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:59:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040318213253.00b06c50@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:53:11 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com, isleofmannca@yahoogroups.com, Elizabethan-Costume@yahoogroups.com From: Kimiko Small Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] SPAM: eBay find of 1581 Elizabethan Prayer book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I had to share this find... I only wish I had the huge bucks to get this book for my research materials (sigh). 1581 SIGNED QUEEN ELIZABETH PRAYER BK-John Evelyn-Bible OWNED+SIGNED BY JOHN EVELYN-WOODCUTS EVERY PG http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3596008962&category=29220&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1 Take a look at the photos. It is incredible the details of the woodcuts, and it isn't the best of images! Oh, to be able to study this book in its entirety. Enjoy all. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 03:56:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J8uliF005139 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:56:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J8u6cP029430; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:56:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J8tx1D097945; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:55:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J8tv1D097916 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:55:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beb3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.179]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CBBA45EE0AD for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:55:51 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002801c40d90$01171c40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] more from Swedens Gustavians Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:56:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello Danielle, The gustavians has a very talented wigmaker. She is called Carina Rosén. I sended her a picture of the danish king Christian VII wich i liked, and she made me one that looks very like. I am so happy for it because the other ones i have, looks much more synthetic. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:10 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] more from Swedens Gustavians > Oh Bjarne, > > I'm so envious that you get to go to these wonderful things! The costumes are lovely (many look to be silk at least) but I was really wanting to know where the wigs came from - many are fabulous! They couldn't be their real hair, could they? > > Cheers, > Danielle > > --------- Original Message --------- > >Hi. > >Finally uploaded all 50 pictures from the Gustavian Society! > > > >Enjoy.............. > > > >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/spring_party_for_gustafs1.htm > > > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews > >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > Need a new email address that people can remember > Check out the new EudoraMail at > http://www.eudoramail.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 04:58:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J9wCiF007512 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 04:58:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J9vXcP001157; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:57:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J9vU1D018886; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:57:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2J9vR1D018843 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:57:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A439106A00A2; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:58:17 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A4183B80182; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:57:44 -0600 Message-ID: <008501c40d98$7857da30$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 04:56:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Austalian Fashion Magazines X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2J9wCiF007512 Status: RO This week our first school subscribed to our library. The fashion design students are located in Australia. I am looking for fashion publications to put in my library that were circulated in their country that are out of copyright. I know that Ladies Home Journal was circulated in Australia as early as 1893, and Delineator Magazine in the 1880s. Does anyone know of any other early fashion publications? Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 08:19:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JDJciF008744 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:19:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JDIocP008028; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:18:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JDIg1D088269; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:18:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JDIf1D088255 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:18:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.126]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B4JM4-0001IS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 04:44:04 -0800 Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B4JM3-0006nD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 04:44:03 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: FW: [h-cost] black chemises-CranachPainting? Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 05:44:05 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c40daf$dd474590$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <015c01c40d0e$1db1a0a0$5f3c9b04@HELENPINTO> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i2JDIf1D088255 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Helen! I was pretty sure it was 'later'.... > Here's a reference to L. von Hulleshoven, 19c. artist (no further > information, but this is a very long list of artists): > http://www.comanducci.it/italiano/risultati.asp?ricerca=VON%20HULLESHOVEN% > 20L. > > -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 08:22:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JDMbiF008794 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:22:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JDLxcP008127; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:21:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JDLw1D089562; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:21:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JDLv1D089551 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:21:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from khanson@kc.rr.com) Received: from karen (CPE-24-31-232-81.kc.rr.com [24.31.232.81]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i2JDLsOp013078 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:21:55 -0600 (CST) From: "Talia" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] SPAM: eBay find of 1581 Elizabethan Prayer book Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:21:39 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040318213253.00b06c50@64.87.54.245> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I see things like this on Ebay, it always makes me wonder why they are selling it on Ebay. I mean, for something like this, why wouldn't they use a reputable auction house like Sothebys? Talia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 08:36:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JDaAiF009004 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:36:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JDZScP008852; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:35:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JDZR1D094548; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:35:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JDZP1D094535 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:35:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CC6E1D470 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:35:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p427.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.173]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id F0E18D4B1 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:35:23 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:35:27 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] ebay castle X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Amazing what you find on ebay. I have some doubts about this one. De -----Original Message----- http://cgi.msn.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2384980194&category= > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 09:06:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JE6biF009339 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:06:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JE5gcP010075; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:05:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JE5d1D006622; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:05:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2JE5Q1D006515 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:05:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040319140521.82869.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:05:21 GMT Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:05:21 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] ebay castle To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: loworbit@comcast.net X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wonder if they already have a gaurantee from the crown to confirm the baronial title or if they have a promise of "consideration". Catalina --- otsisto wrote: > Amazing what you find on ebay. I have some doubts > about this one. > > De > -----Original Message----- > > http://cgi.msn.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2384980194&category= > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 09:14:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JEEViF009407 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:14:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JEDpcP010586; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:13:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JEDn1D010228; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:13:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14002.mail.yahoo.com (web14002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2JEDj1D010175 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:13:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040319140702.31448.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:07:02 GMT Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:07:02 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] eBay find of 1581 Elizabethan Prayer book To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO a lot of ebay auctions are also listed on Sothebys. Look up some of their artwork or diamond auctions. Catalina --- Talia wrote: > When I see things like this on Ebay, it always makes > me wonder why they are > selling it on Ebay. I mean, for something like this, > why wouldn't they use a > reputable auction house like Sothebys? > > Talia > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 09:21:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JELEiF009440 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:21:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JEJhcP010877; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JEJg1D013049; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:19:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JEJc1D013035 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:19:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2JE96Z15005 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:09:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from 209-165-44-092.jps.net ([209.165.44.92] helo=pavilion) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B4KgL-0007WN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:09:05 -0800 Message-ID: <001501c40dbd$62fc52e0$5c2ca5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <008501c40d98$7857da30$0200a8c0@MOM> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austalian Fashion Magazines Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:20:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A good overview of Australian fashion is found in the book "Parade - The Story of Fashion in Australia" by Alexandra Joel, published by HarperCollinsPublishers. Last printing 1998 - www.harpercollins.com.au Great book covering 1778 to the 1990's. A quick (very) looks shows "The HOME - The Australian Journal of Quality" being printed in as early as the 1920's covering such topics as the Miss Australia competition and other society happenings, fashion too of course. The "Australian Women's Weekly" - still published and popular today started in 1933. HOME appears throughout the book in references so I'd suspect that was a major publication. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 1:56 AM Subject: [h-cost] Austalian Fashion Magazines This week our first school subscribed to our library. The fashion design students are located in Australia. I am looking for fashion publications to put in my library that were circulated in their country that are out of copyright. I know that Ladies Home Journal was circulated in Australia as early as 1893, and Delineator Magazine in the 1880s. Does anyone know of any other early fashion publications? Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 09:44:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JEiliF009520 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:44:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JEfrcP012316; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:41:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JEfo1D023154; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:41:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from uranium.btinternet.com (uranium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JEfn1D023127 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:41:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stevie.gamble@btinternet.com) Received: from [81.129.117.188] (helo=dan) by hafnium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1B3GQ3-0000LJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:23:51 +0000 Message-ID: <005701c40b6a$f8c1b5e0$bc758151@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4057169F.8070405@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures Dickens Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:25:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Deredere wrote: > I finally have some pictures of the Dickens evenr I went to. > The one in the red dress is me. > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Dickens/Dickens.html > It's lovely, Deredere; as always with your work! best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 10:04:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JF49iF009585 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:04:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JF3EcP013818; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:03:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JF3D1D033408; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:03:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JF3A1D033377 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:03:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m173.in-tch.com [216.166.191.173]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i2JEeD922788 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:40:13 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <405B0C78.9090101@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:06:32 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon22 in Atlanta References: <1de.1b092af2.2d8b847a@aol.com> <001801c40d40$49f3d0c0$0c01a8c0@sbcglobal.net> In-Reply-To: <001801c40d40$49f3d0c0$0c01a8c0@sbcglobal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drool.... I'd love to go, but I've got family commitments this summer that are keeping me from traveling much. (My baby brother's getting married for the first time, and I gotta save my money and vacation time for traveling down there. Mind you, got *no* idea what to wear, as they don't do any sort of reenactment, and I kinda stick to tee shirts and jeans in the 21st c.....;o) --sue, rambling.... Bruce & Nora Mai wrote: > CostumeCon 22 is coming up very soon - April 2-4 in Atlanta, GA. > Is anyone from this list going to be there? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 10:38:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JFcfiF010749 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:38:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JFbhcP016862; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:37:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JFbd1D054161; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:37:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound20-2.nyc.untd.com (outbound20-2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2JFbb1D054099 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:37:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail05.nyc.untd.com [10.140.30.145]) by smtpout05.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAFYE59AL6QVL2 for (sender ); Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:36:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCkgPSkwG8KVS0oGvknc6rJBocnAaLsVahg==">; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:35:37 PST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail05.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JQ4J92VU; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:35:37 PST Received: from [63.215.119.135] by webmail05.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:35:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.215.119.135] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Original-From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:35:19 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon22 in Atlanta X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain From: seamstrix@juno.com Message-Id: <20040319.073537.528.802469@webmail05.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 3:4:629154337 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello All! I'll be there. I'm not sure which outfits I'll be bringing, but I'm looking forward to seeing Atlanta and going to all the cool programming.....if I can just figure this Harry Potter thing out..... Karen Bruce & Nora Mai wrote: > CostumeCon 22 is coming up very soon - April 2-4 in Atlanta, GA. > Is anyone from this list going to be there? > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 10:56:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JFu0iF011182 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:56:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JFtBcP018578; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:55:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JFt81D065256; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:55:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JFt21D065130 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:55:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F8EF42615 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:09:50 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <405B19D1.6030201@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:03:29 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon22 in Atlanta References: <1de.1b092af2.2d8b847a@aol.com> <001801c40d40$49f3d0c0$0c01a8c0@sbcglobal.net> <405B0C78.9090101@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <405B0C78.9090101@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: > Mind you, got *no* idea what to wear, as they > don't do any sort of reenactment, and I kinda stick to tee shirts and > jeans in the 21st c.....;o) Calf length princess dress in a summery print. The style goes anywhere and is classic enough to last for years. Decades even. It's not the modern clothes so much as getting into a dress without a corset and petticoats that makes me feel awkward. :) Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 11:08:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JG8miF011294 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:08:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JG80cP019894; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:08:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JG7v1D073414; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:07:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JG7r1D073379 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:07:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.126]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B4JNv-0002V8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 04:45:59 -0800 Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B4JNu-00073K-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 04:45:58 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Early Period Bra Straps, or: What ARE those white things? Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 05:46:00 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01c40db0$21c94420$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040318161005.04bd9f00@mail.frys.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i2JG7r1D073379 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Someone on the list whose name escapes me has a fairly comprehensive write up on their website...someone will remember.... > > We go around and around on this from time to time on this list, and nobody > yet has reached an agreement of what they really are nor been able to > document their original function either. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 12:16:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JHGYiF012090 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:16:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JHFncP027244; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:15:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JHFg1D020986; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:15:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2JHFb1D020928 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:15:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sarah@modehistorique.com) Received: from unknown (HELO modehistorique.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@69.105.203.105 with plain) by smtp814.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2004 17:15:37 -0000 Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:15:16 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early Period Bra Straps, or: What ARE those white things? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Sarah Lorraine To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <000d01c40db0$21c94420$6a01a8c0@SG01> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Someone on the list whose name escapes me has a fairly comprehensive > write > up on their website...someone will remember.... > >> >> We go around and around on this from time to time on this list, and >> nobody >> yet has reached an agreement of what they really are nor been able to >> document their original function either. That might be Hope Greenberg's website: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/whiteband.html She pretty much covers all of the predominant theories out there, but still comes up inconclusive. Sarah http://www.modehsitorique.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 12:43:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JHhgiF012314 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:43:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JHgwcP000335; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:42:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JHgu1D041626; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:42:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JHgr1D041601 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:42:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp ([4.62.21.200]) by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040319173611.CYVZ9273.out002.verizon.net@brandyscomp> for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:36:11 -0600 Message-ID: <00f301c40dd8$b0514670$c8153e04@brandyscomp> From: "Brandy Deming" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] ebay castle Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:36:14 -0800 Organization: Better Times for Small Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [4.62.21.200] at Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:36:11 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Never have I wanted 15 million dollars more :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:35 AM Subject: [h-cost] ebay castle > Amazing what you find on ebay. I have some doubts about this one. > > De > -----Original Message----- > > http://cgi.msn.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2384980194&category= > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 12:58:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JHwKiF012439 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:58:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JHvacP002073; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:57:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JHvW1D051742; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:57:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JHvS1D051702 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:57:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E4D13E06D for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:57:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 91459-05 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:57:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 501A413E042; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:57:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust49.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.49]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4344813E06D for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:57:26 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <02dc01c40ddb$cf4ac800$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00f301c40dd8$b0514670$c8153e04@brandyscomp> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ebay castle Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:58:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandy Deming" > Never have I wanted 15 million dollars more :) I'd definitely want a lot of extra to spend to undo the 19th century gothification. =} How frightening is it that there are alraedy 6 bids? There's some nifty websites out there that list castles for sale, some of which are well under a million--never noticed a barony coming with one, though! -E (just waiting for those 35 years until the husband and I retire rich to Switzerland...) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 14:29:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JJTWiF012992 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:29:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JJSYcP011259; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:28:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JJSS1D016379; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:28:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web12505.mail.yahoo.com (web12505.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.197]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2JJSP1D016343 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:28:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sorepaws@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040319192823.15719.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.115.132.3] by web12505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:28:23 PST Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:28:23 -0800 (PST) From: Lil Sorepaws To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200403191900.i2JJ0e1F097269@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: mooncat@in-tch.com Subject: [h-cost] Costume Con in Atlanta ... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OMG I WISH .. but after 3 months of less than half pay at work but still working FT, I can't afford much in the way of travelling for pleasure. Even to almost-local events. Thankfully I HAVE found several super heavy duty vintage sewing machines for like 10-25$ in good working order, so I will hopefully be making some $$ at a few REALLY local events later on with leather goodies and bodices ;) I have a couple of dozen rennie (non historical - sorry ;) bodices cut out and waiting for me to find time to make them. I am currently researching an italian/french renaissance portrait for making .. it will be in some gorgeous fabrics .. as soon as I find the time to actually measure twice and baste before sewing or cutting .. otherwise my skills are not up to par for sewing silk without devoting serious patience and time! ANY suggestions for how to work with silk would be most welcome. ;) As for mundane wedding attending clothes, reply to me Offlist, Sue C., and I'll see what I can do to help... I'm a packrat and a habitual reseller on eBay so I always have something in my stash. When and where is the wedding? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 15:03:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JK3uiF013200 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:03:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JJtqcP013443; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:55:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JJto1D033914; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:55:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk (fmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.183]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JJtk1D033869 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:55:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hbgd103@soton.ac.uk) Received: from [195.92.193.20] (helo=tmailm1.svr.pol.co.uk) by fmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1B4N7e-0007jz-VD for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:45:26 +0000 Received: from modem-771.blotto.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.25.147.3] helo=soton.ac.uk) by tmailm1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1B4N5o-0008OI-8k for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:43:32 +0000 Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:44:42 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austalian Fashion Magazines From: Hilary Davidson To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO also check out the State Library of NSW's catalogue, www.sl.nsw.gov.au, and chack what they hold in their collections as a guide. or the National Library, www.nla.gov.au. The state library may be better as New South Wales is older than Australia, as it were, and has records since the colony started. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 15:43:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JKhUiF013383 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:43:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JKglcP017357; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:42:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JKgd1D064298; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:42:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cerberus.uk.clara.net (cerberus.uk.clara.net [195.8.69.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JKga1D064265 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:42:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from reholliday@lineone.net) Received: from [212.126.131.211] (helo=rachelp9qkqnpl) by cerberus.uk.clara.net with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1B4Pi1-0003vM-3t for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:31:09 +0000 From: "Rachel" To: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:31:10 -0000 Message-ID: <000001c40de8$bd14fea0$d3837ed4@rachelp9qkqnpl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200403181901.i2IJ171E050650@net.indra.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sewing machines - any recommendations X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all, Well I have finally come to the conclusion that hand sewing everything is not a good idea so I am thinking of buying myself a new sewing machine. The only trouble is that I have no idea which one to get. I am after a machine that is happy sewing through at least four layers of heavy fabric, goes backwards and forwards, and does an the ^^^^^ stitch over the raw edges. After that I don't care. Can anyone recommend a good make. I'm in the UK but most places stock the more well known brands such as singer and brother. Thanks Rachel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 16:22:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JLMZiF013597 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:22:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JLLpcP021108; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:21:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JLLk1D090044; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:21:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from batch3.csd.uwm.edu (batch3.csd.uwm.edu [129.89.169.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JLLj1D090020 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:21:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jab@uwm.edu) Received: from alpha3.csd.uwm.edu (root@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu [129.89.169.203]) by batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2JL2evd008241 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:02:41 -0600 (CST) Received: from uwm.edu ([129.89.154.224]) by alpha3.csd.uwm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2JL2eDU030040 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:02:40 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <405B5FF0.5BAAC477@uwm.edu> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:02:40 -0600 From: Julie Brautigan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing machines - any recommendations References: <000001c40de8$bd14fea0$d3837ed4@rachelp9qkqnpl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Rachel - I've read past discussions about this, and many people raved about the Europro. I believe they said that because it has a solid metal core, it is able to handle thick fabrics. I am thinking of getting one of these myself some day. Take Care, Julie Rachel wrote: > Greetings all, > > Well I have finally come to the conclusion that hand sewing everything > is not a good idea so I am thinking of buying myself a new sewing > machine. The only trouble is that I have no idea which one to get. I > am after a machine that is happy sewing through at least four layers of > heavy fabric, goes backwards and forwards, and does an the ^^^^^ stitch > over the raw edges. After that I don't care. Can anyone recommend a > good make. I'm in the UK but most places stock the more well known > brands such as singer and brother. > > Thanks > > Rachel > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 17:53:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JMr6iF013996 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:53:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JMltcf004923; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JMg41D049060; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:42:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JMfu1E048727 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:41:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2JNFZWm024315 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:15:35 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A731128200C2; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:41:53 -0500 Received: from dfaulk1.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.113]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:41:52 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <002f01c40e04$2abb6a00$715183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c40de8$bd14fea0$d3837ed4@rachelp9qkqnpl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing machines - any recommendations Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:47:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have come to love my Pfaff "Jeans and Satin" It does just that, and a little more...My Beloved is/was Kenmore 1939. I like to have some control over the design points of a project. The Pfaff actually will sew over 4 layers of 'jean'. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel" To: Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 2:31 PM Subject: [h-cost] Sewing machines - any recommendations > > Greetings all, > > Well I have finally come to the conclusion that hand sewing everything > is not a good idea so I am thinking of buying myself a new sewing > machine. The only trouble is that I have no idea which one to get. I > am after a machine that is happy sewing through at least four layers of > heavy fabric, goes backwards and forwards, and does an the ^^^^^ stitch > over the raw edges. After that I don't care. Can anyone recommend a > good make. I'm in the UK but most places stock the more well known > brands such as singer and brother. > > Thanks > > Rachel > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 17:54:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JMs6iF014004 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:54:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JMrQcP006096; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:53:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JMrO1D065623; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:53:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2JMrJ1D065568 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:53:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.35.166]) by smail1.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 10208152 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:47:54 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sewing machines - any recommendations Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:51:40 -0600 Message-ID: <023101c40e04$bf4b07c0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <000001c40de8$bd14fea0$d3837ed4@rachelp9qkqnpl> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rachel-- Most important advice--do NOT buy Singer. Oh, unless it's a VERY old, black iron Singer. If you could find a used Bernina 1090, 1080, 1230, 1260 or 1530, any of those would be great. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Rachel Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 1:31 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Sewing machines - any recommendations Greetings all, Well I have finally come to the conclusion that hand sewing everything is not a good idea so I am thinking of buying myself a new sewing machine. The only trouble is that I have no idea which one to get. I am after a machine that is happy sewing through at least four layers of heavy fabric, goes backwards and forwards, and does an the ^^^^^ stitch over the raw edges. After that I don't care. Can anyone recommend a good make. I'm in the UK but most places stock the more well known brands such as singer and brother. Thanks Rachel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 20:26:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2K1QkiF015464 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:26:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K1PxcP018445; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:26:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K1Pk6S044014; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:25:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K1Pi6S043967 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:25:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from allison@aristotle.net) Received: from aristotle.net (pcp456740pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net[68.51.39.191]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004032001203201300dn8dle>; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 01:20:33 +0000 Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:15:19 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Allison To: h-costume@net.indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <0DD23EC7-7A0C-11D8-B1F7-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costume Con 22 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I will also be in Atlanta...and like Karen/Seamstrix, I'm not sure about the Hogwart's Ball attire. I have a couple of ideas, and fabric, but no time to do anything yet. Maybe I'll just wear a bathrobe. :-} So, as has been done in the past, do we need to make H-badges to add to our CC nametags? I'd be happy to make some. (That's a lot quicker/easier project than building a costume!) I'd really like to meet some more of you H-Costumers. Allison P. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 20:53:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2K1rEiF015692 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:53:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K1qUcP019766; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:52:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K1qR6S054406; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:52:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav9.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.113]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K1qR6S054368 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:52:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:35:06 -0800 Received: from 66.130.164.16 by bay9-dav9.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 01:35:06 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.164.16] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c40de8$bd14fea0$d3837ed4@rachelp9qkqnpl> <002f01c40e04$2abb6a00$715183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing machines - any recommendations Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:36:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2004 01:35:06.0362 (UTC) FILETIME=[92D5FDA0:01C40E1B] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm sold to Viking. I absolutely adore my new machine. But my mom had a Pfaff that did a really really good job too. One thing to consider though: Pfaff has just been bought out by Viking, so I'm not sure what that means for after sale service. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing machines - any recommendations > I have come to love my Pfaff "Jeans and Satin" It does just that, and a > little more...My Beloved is/was Kenmore 1939. I like to have some control > over the design points of a project. The Pfaff actually will sew over 4 > layers of 'jean'. > Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 19 21:39:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2K2dhiF015956 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:39:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K2cdcP022502; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:38:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K2cb6S073607; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:38:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback-mx2.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@fallback-mx2.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.96]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K2cY6S073589 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:38:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from athurman@cybergal.com) Received: from mail8.atl.registeredsite.com (mail8.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.82]) by fallback-mx2.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2K2ZqvA023791 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:35:52 -0500 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) by mail8.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2K2ZooT030904 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:35:50 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.42.71]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:35:48 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:35:39 -0500 Message-ID: <025d01c40e24$0a646660$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume Con in Atlanta X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I will be there :) Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 00:06:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2K567iF016505 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 00:06:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K552cP029506; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K54r6S028644; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:04:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K54o6T028630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:04:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2K5cYWm018738 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 00:38:34 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A0F08B600CC; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 00:04:48 -0500 Received: from reaston.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.116]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 00:04:47 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <000f01c40e39$a9a05bc0$745183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c40de8$bd14fea0$d3837ed4@rachelp9qkqnpl><002f01c40e04$2abb6a00$715183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing machines - any recommendations Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 00:10:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My super service center is also the pfaff Dealer of this area. He services all machines; even OLD ones. I bought my new one because of the quality service of his shop...it happened to be the Pfaff Dealership. I recommend that what ever machine you decide on, that you deal with a business that is not just Selling machines. Heck, even the new ones sometimes need a checkup. I"d prefer to place my business, even if it costs a little more, with people who stand behind the product, and are not just moving merchandise. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing machines - any recommendations > I'm sold to Viking. I absolutely adore my new machine. But my mom had a > Pfaff that did a really really good job too. One thing to consider though: > Pfaff has just been bought out by Viking, so I'm not sure what that means > for after sale service. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:47 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing machines - any recommendations > > > > I have come to love my Pfaff "Jeans and Satin" It does just that, and a > > little more...My Beloved is/was Kenmore 1939. I like to have some control > > over the design points of a project. The Pfaff actually will sew over 4 > > layers of 'jean'. > > Kathleen > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 00:21:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2K5L8iF016530 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 00:21:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K5KDcP029987; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:20:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K5KC6S033835; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:20:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m3.nyc.untd.com (m3.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2K5KB6S033776 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:20:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from btana@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"MW/ewWa+Q2FG65sHxVDc3YSE9HFYtPqpiIQicLORJaZQIMcOgNQ7SQ==">; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:19:27 PST Received: (from btana@juno.com) by m3.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JQ52EJME; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:19:27 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:17:25 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing machines - any recommendations Message-ID: <20040319.222731.1328.2.btana@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-13,20,27-30,32-34 From: btana@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:51:40 -0600 "kim baird" writes: > Rachel-- > > Most important advice--do NOT buy Singer. Oh, unless it's a VERY > old, black iron Singer. > > If you could find a used Bernina 1090, 1080, 1230, 1260 or 1530, any > of those would be great. > > Kim Why not a Singer? I have a heavy duty Singer, the type that they sell to high school home ec depts. I have sewn leather, in varying weights and multiple layers, I have sewn multiple layers of heavy denim, I've sewn THICK furs... and I've been doing these sorts of things with that machine for something like 6 or 7 years with the same machine. I've also sewn chiffon, satin, organza... I've sewn basically every type of material... home dec fabrics included, without a problem. I've never had it in to service, though with several moves, the last one makes me need to get it in, but I'm still using it. It sews like a trooper, has never let me down. My biggest problem is the rare occasion of rushing a job and I break the needle in my haste. Other than that, the machine has been great. And I think I only paid something like $175 for it, lock-stock-and-barrel to be delivered to my door. Of course, that's US price, but it's still a sweet price. Astrid Never argue with a dragon, for thou art crunchy and go well with Brie. http://www.geocities.com/tul_juriss - for links to ALL my current sites http://www.geocities.com/astridofthehorde - costumes I've made http://www.geocities.com/house_qul_mupwi - The noble Klingon House http://www.geocities.com/klingon_pirates_guild - The Klingon Pirate's Guild ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 03:59:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2K8xXiF010510 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 03:59:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K8wqcP008943; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 01:58:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K8wl6S010285; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 01:58:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K8wj6S010264 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 01:58:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 588A61CEF2 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:58:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p480.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.226]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4A914C423 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:58:44 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:58:49 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] French ? tudor X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/refo/ho_29.100.197.htm Anne de Pisseleu De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 04:01:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2K91YiF010521 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 04:01:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K90ucP009059; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:00:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K90t6S011031; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:00:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K8wk6S010275 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 01:58:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D65C1CEF2 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:58:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p480.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.226]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 93C87C423 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:58:45 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] black band Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:58:51 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <00ea01c40c38$78f21750$1902a8c0@duncan> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a bit early but the portrait has a black neckband on her chemise. http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/d/durer/1/02/index.html Scroll down to 1497, Portrait of a Young Furleger w/her hair done up. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 04:02:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2K92miF010765 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 04:02:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K92AcP009134; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:02:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K92A6S011467; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:02:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K90r6S011019 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:00:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C23C1D06F for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 03:00:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p480.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.226]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5EAC9C5E5 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 03:00:52 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 03:00:58 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Chemise question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Came across these two 1499 pictures of Felicitas and Elsbeth Tucher. The chemises seem to have some sort of gold band and what appaers to be trapunto. What is your opinions? http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/d/durer/1/02/index/html Scroll down to Felicitas Tucher and Elsbeth Tucher. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 04:26:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2K9QpiF011017 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 04:26:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K9Q7cP010022; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:26:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K9Q66S019824; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:26:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2K9Q46S019807 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:26:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 814AE1D06F for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 03:26:04 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p480.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.226]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 58B8DC5E5 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 03:26:03 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Chemise question Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 03:26:09 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For some reason the link doesn't want to work. It is the same link as the one given for the black band portrait(which does work). Just need to scroll a little further to find the two portraits. De -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of otsisto Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 3:01 AM To: Historic Costume Subject: [h-cost] Chemise question Came across these two 1499 pictures of Felicitas and Elsbeth Tucher. The chemises seem to have some sort of gold band and what appaers to be trapunto. What is your opinions? http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/d/durer/1/02/index/html Scroll down to Felicitas Tucher and Elsbeth Tucher. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 09:37:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KEbSiF015257 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:37:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KEajcP022349; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:36:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KEai6S028414; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:36:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KEag6S028392 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:36:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m144.in-tch.com [216.166.191.144]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i2KEDiM23374 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:13:44 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <405C57C3.7010300@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:40:03 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] black band References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bad reproduction . What you can't really tell in this one is that the "black band" is actually a band of embroidery with letters worked into it an everything.... --sue otsisto wrote: > This is a bit early but the portrait has a black neckband on her chemise. > > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/d/durer/1/02/index.html > > Scroll down to 1497, Portrait of a Young Furleger w/her hair done up. > > De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 09:37:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KEbciF015260 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:37:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KEYicP022262; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:34:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KEYb6S027606; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:34:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KEYY6S027593 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:34:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m144.in-tch.com [216.166.191.144]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i2KEBZM22540 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:11:36 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <405C5742.4010705@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:37:54 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] French ? tudor References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, haven't seen that one before. It looks pretty, and simple. The band of trim or embroidery around the upper arms strikes me as pretty unusual, though. Has anyone seen others like that? --sue, currently planted firmly in the 14th c, but bookmarking it for future garb projects otsisto wrote: > http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/refo/ho_29.100.197.htm > > Anne de Pisseleu > > De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 09:38:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KEcXiF015265 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:38:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KEbscP022433; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:37:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KEbs6S028807; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:37:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KEbr6S028800 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:37:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m144.in-tch.com [216.166.191.144]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i2KEEtM23859 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:14:55 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <405C580B.9080807@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:41:15 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chemise question References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Umm....link didn't work for me. Did you type it in correctly, or is it my computer? --sue otsisto wrote: > Came across these two 1499 pictures of Felicitas and Elsbeth Tucher. > The chemises seem to have some sort of gold band and what appaers to be > trapunto. > What is your opinions? > > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/d/durer/1/02/index/html > > Scroll down to Felicitas Tucher and Elsbeth Tucher. > > De > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 10:37:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KFbniF015619 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:37:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KFaAcP024909; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:36:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KFa76S050266; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:36:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mx.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KFa66S050220 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:36:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from M311@aol.com) Received: from M311@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.d6.639e7d9 (3972) for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:30:39 -0500 (EST) From: M311@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:30:39 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5006 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Sewing machines - any recommendations X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just got a Brother, CS8150 computerized. It is great and sews well. I went to Brother's website and it looks like the closest one for the UK is the CS8120. The discription is found here: http://www.brother.co.uk/dsm/cs8120.html Good luck. Kelly _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 11:14:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KGE4iF015831 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:14:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KGBscP026700; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:11:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KGBq6S063113; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:11:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback-mx2.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@fallback-mx2.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.96]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KGBp6S063091 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:11:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from athurman@cybergal.com) Received: from mail8.atl.registeredsite.com (mail8.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.82]) by fallback-mx2.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2KG9rvA002971 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:09:53 -0500 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) by mail8.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2KG9qoT008928 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:09:52 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.42.71]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:09:51 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:09:47 -0500 Message-ID: <027801c40e95$c4d29eb0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <200403201435.i2KEZW6U028000@net.indra.com> Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Costume Con 22 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:15:19 -0600 > From: Allison > Subject: [h-cost] Costume Con 22 > To: h-costume@net.indra.com > Message-ID: <0DD23EC7-7A0C-11D8-B1F7-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > I will also be in Atlanta...and like Karen/Seamstrix, I'm not sure > about the Hogwart's Ball attire. I have a couple of ideas, and > fabric, but no time to do anything yet. Maybe I'll just wear a > bathrobe. :-} > Awww... no Umbridge? Pink fuzzy sweater and you're good to go :) Seriously - I know you'll think of something, you are always inventive! > So, as has been done in the past, do we need to make H-badges > to add to > our CC nametags? I'd be happy to make some. (That's a lot > quicker/easier project than building a costume!) I'd really like to > meet some more of you H-Costumers. I thought that the Costume Con staff provided the red stamp last year - am I remembering wrong? I am thinking of getting "goat" stickers or something similar to indicate membership in the Live Journal dress_diaries community though - any LJers here? > > Allison P. Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 11:17:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KGHxiF015863 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:17:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KGGmcP027074; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:16:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KGGm6S065209; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:16:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2KGGY6S065077 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:16:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Om+HBWS3OOZBWLKna9rn5gk=">; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:16:16 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JQ67Y7SC; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:16:16 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:04:24 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] black band Message-ID: <20040320.081531.1616.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-31 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What would the cording that ties the front of her gown been made of? And how would it have been made? Arlys On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:40:03 -0700 Sue Clemenger writes: > Bad reproduction . What you can't really tell in this one is that > > the "black band" is actually a band of embroidery with letters > worked > into it an everything.... > --sue > > otsisto wrote: > > > This is a bit early but the portrait has a black neckband on her > chemise. > > > > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/d/durer/1/02/index.html > > > > Scroll down to 1497, Portrait of a Young Furleger w/her hair done > up. > > > > De > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 11:28:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KGSRiF015936 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:28:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KGRmcP027690; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:27:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KGRl6S069269; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:27:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback-mx1.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@fallback-mx1.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.95]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KGRj6S069259 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:27:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from athurman@cybergal.com) Received: from mail7.atl.registeredsite.com (mail7.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.81]) by fallback-mx1.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2KGCVcZ025384 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:12:31 -0500 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) by mail7.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2KGCVuQ000631 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:12:31 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.42.71]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:12:30 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:12:28 -0500 Message-ID: <027901c40e96$24a0d5a0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <200403201435.i2KEZW6U028000@net.indra.com> Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Sewing machines - any recommendations X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:51:40 -0600 > From: "kim baird" > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sewing machines - any recommendations > To: "'Historical Costume'" > Message-ID: <023101c40e04$bf4b07c0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Rachel-- > > Most important advice--do NOT buy Singer. Oh, unless it's a VERY old, > black iron Singer. > Really? What I was told was that any Singer prior to around 1970-75 is ok, because Singer's didn't decline in quality until they sold most of their patents to Merrit (sp?) in the '70s. I've worked with some 1960s-70s Singers with few complaints, though I agree that the newer ones are as frail as Fisher-Price toys! > If you could find a used Bernina 1090, 1080, 1230, 1260 or > 1530, any of > those would be great. > > Kim Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 14:08:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KJ8LiF016812 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:08:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KJ4ucP005791; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:04:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KJ4m6S028255; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:04:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KJ4k6S028243 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:04:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.121.247]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B4knL-0002jY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:02:03 -0800 Received: from dialup-4.155.21.174.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.174] helo=HELENPINTO) by firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B4knI-0006yh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:02:00 -0800 Message-ID: <010c01c40ea5$6ef59f00$ae159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040320.081531.1616.0.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] black band Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:01:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef0494bd0bc177b65a1a289401856a493b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Arlys wrote: What would the cording that ties the front of her gown been made of? And how would it have been made? A finger-looped braid was one of the most common laces for closing women's dresses in the 15th c., most likely of silk. (Linen or wool may also have been used, but I have no reference for it.) This technique produces a wide range of cords and narrow tapes that are very strong. Many different and even complex patterns can be produced, depending on the number of loops and colors used. The best things about the technique are that it is quick and easy to learn (the simple ones), the materials are cheap, and it requires no equipment other than your fingers, a thread cutter, and a stationary object to tie the ends to. Here's a link to an instructions for several simple braids and a bibliography. http://www.stringpage.com/braid/fl/fingerloop.html Enjoy, -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 14:53:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KJrYiF017043 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:53:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KJqpcP007957; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:52:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KJqm6S046314; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:52:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KJqk6S046276 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:52:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B4mWQ-0006Yc-0W; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:52:42 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:50:23 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] ebay castle References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Historic Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I believe it's genuine. Certainly it was reported on the BBC News site, and you can buy baronial titles in Scotland. It doesn't get you anything except the right to use the name, though. Jean otsisto wrote >Amazing what you find on ebay. I have some doubts about this one. > >De >-----Original Message----- > >http://cgi.msn.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2384980194&category= > > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 14:53:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KJrciF017046 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:53:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KJr3cP007978; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:53:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KJr26S046409; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:53:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KJqk6S046277 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:52:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B4mWQ-0006Yc-0W; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:52:42 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:50:23 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] ebay castle References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Historic Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I believe it's genuine. Certainly it was reported on the BBC News site, and you can buy baronial titles in Scotland. It doesn't get you anything except the right to use the name, though. Jean otsisto wrote >Amazing what you find on ebay. I have some doubts about this one. > >De >-----Original Message----- > >http://cgi.msn.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2384980194&category= > > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 16:10:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KLAgiF017448 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:10:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLA2cP011396; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:10:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KL9w6S076477; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:09:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KL9u6T076441 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:09:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from allison@aristotle.net) Received: from aristotle.net (pcp456740pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net[68.51.39.191]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004032021004901600s619ce>; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:00:50 +0000 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:55:36 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Allison To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200403201900.i2KJ0Y6T026748@net.indra.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume Con 22 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Allison T. wrote: > Awww... no Umbridge? Pink fuzzy sweater and you're good to go :) > Seriously - > I know you'll think of something, you are always inventive! As a matter of fact, I have a great Umbridge outfit thought up, but 1) I wanted to be practical and use fabric I might actually use later - like for the lining of a nice cape for Faire wear, and 2) I'm sort of burned out on pink.... > >> So, as has been done in the past, do we need to make H-badges >> to add to >> our CC nametags? I'd be happy to make some. (That's a lot >> quicker/easier project than building a costume!) I'd really like to >> meet some more of you H-Costumers. > > I thought that the Costume Con staff provided the red stamp last year > - am I > remembering wrong? > I heard someone at the registration desk last year say they remembered to grab a stamp on the way out the door, so it was just our good luck that we got them. I'm thinking I'll make separate little letters. An H for this list and an M for Margo's, and we can tape or staple them to our Con badges. Allison P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 16:11:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KLBEiF017452 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:11:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLAZcP011426; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:10:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLAZ6S076765; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:10:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLAK6S076623 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:10:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from allison@aristotle.net) Received: from aristotle.net (pcp456740pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net[68.51.39.191]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004032021101501600s5aoue>; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:10:15 +0000 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:05:01 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Allison To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200403201900.i2KJ0Y6T026748@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Any other sewers/handcrafters out there have any advice for this aging baby boomer? Every time I hand sew I get terrible numbness and tingling in my fingers, and pain in my forearms. And my right thumb joint is giving me trouble, with what I know is early osteoarthritis. My hands are beginning to look like my mother's did as she got older. It's gotten bad enough that I sew by hand for about 15 minutes, then put it down for several hours, which means I'll have trouble finishing the project in time. (I'm doing heavy duty hand sewing - putting in bound buttonholes on a bodice.) Any recommendations on what helps this? Do I really need to see a doctor who will probably just tell me to stop using my hands (yeah, right !!!!), or at least wear a wrist brace/wrap and take Tylenol? I already do these things. Thanks, guys! Allison P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 16:23:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KLNLiF017584 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:23:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLMRcP012045; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:22:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLMQ6S081247; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:22:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLMO6S081227 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:22:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-38-178.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.38.178]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLMMaH029869 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:22:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040320131747.04d51590@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:21:21 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis In-Reply-To: <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> References: <200403201900.i2KJ0Y6T026748@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Any recommendations on what helps this? Set longer lead times for finishing stuff. When it hurts, stop. >Do I really need to see a doctor who will probably just tell me to stop >using my hands (yeah, right !!!!), or at least wear a wrist brace/wrap and >take Tylenol? I already do these things. Go to a doctor recommended by someone who has gotten over wrist tendonitis. Sports medicine doctors are good for this, because they expect the athletes to get over their injuries, and go back to doing what gave it to them in the first place but knowing how to 'play' safer next time. Advil not Tylenol, or at least ibuprophin instead of acetomenaphin. My doctor recommended a muscle relaxer, not a pain killer. You need the pain to tell you when it's time to stop. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 16:23:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KLNliF017603 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:23:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLMqcP012088; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:22:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLMq6S081407; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:22:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLMQ6S081241 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:22:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB2371D4D3 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:22:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p203.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.216.205]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D2ACCD411 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:22:24 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Chemise question corrected Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:22:31 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <405C580B.9080807@in-tch.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO i oopsed lets try this again. > > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/d/durer/1/02/index.html > > Scroll down to Felicitas Tucher and Elsbeth Tucher. > > De > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 16:31:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KLVSiF017777 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:31:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLUncP012501; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:30:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLUm6S084466; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:30:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLUk6T084450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:30:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2KLYn4J006531 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:34:50 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] black band Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:33:41 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <010c01c40ea5$6ef59f00$ae159b04@HELENPINTO> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Every time I go to that page and look at those instructions I cringe. It is a good thing that I don't have to make my living manipulating things like this with my hands. Regina > A finger-looped braid was one of the most common laces for closing women's > dresses in the 15th c., most likely of silk. (Linen or wool may also have > been used, but I have no reference for it.) This technique > produces a wide > range of cords and narrow tapes that are very strong. Many different and > even complex patterns can be produced, depending on the number of > loops and > colors used. The best things about the technique are that it is quick and > easy to learn (the simple ones), the materials are cheap, and it > requires no > equipment other than your fingers, a thread cutter, and a > stationary object > to tie the ends to. > Here's a link to an instructions for several simple braids and a > bibliography. > http://www.stringpage.com/braid/fl/fingerloop.html > Enjoy, > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 16:37:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KLbaiF017835 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:37:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLaucP012764; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:36:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLat6S086795; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:36:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLas6S086765 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:36:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dshoover@comcast.net) Received: from w2x2y9 (c-67-160-169-43.client.comcast.net[67.160.169.43]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004032021314301300dqt9ee>; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:31:43 +0000 Message-ID: <001701c40ec2$b8dc34e0$2ba9a043@attbi.com> From: "dshoover" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:31:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO May I suggest to go talk to your doctor. There are several prescription drugs that work much better than Tylenol. Generally drugs such as Alaive or Morton would work better that is what they are made for. Debbie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allison" To: Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 1:05 PM Subject: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis > Any other sewers/handcrafters out there have any advice for this aging > baby boomer? Every time I hand sew I get terrible numbness and > tingling in my fingers, and pain in my forearms. And my right thumb > joint is giving me trouble, with what I know is early osteoarthritis. > My hands are beginning to look like my mother's did as she got older. > > It's gotten bad enough that I sew by hand for about 15 minutes, then > put it down for several hours, which means I'll have trouble finishing > the project in time. (I'm doing heavy duty hand sewing - putting in > bound buttonholes on a bodice.) > > Any recommendations on what helps this? Do I really need to see a > doctor who will probably just tell me to stop using my hands (yeah, > right !!!!), or at least wear a wrist brace/wrap and take Tylenol? I > already do these things. > > Thanks, guys! > > Allison P > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 16:52:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KLqbiF018072 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:52:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLptcP013517; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:51:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLps6S092231; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:51:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KLpp6T092213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:51:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2KLtt4J026836 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:55:56 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:54:46 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Allison, I feel your pain, or at least I have felt it although mine was in my feet, particularly my left one. I know what you mean about osteo-arthritis and hands though because that's how my mother's were by the time she was in her fifties - she could still use them, but they hurt. The advice about seeing a doctor is good. My experience was that my doctor told me it was just part of getting old (grrr). He suggested more aspirin for the inflammation (not Tylenol, Aspirin). Since Aspirin doesn't bother me particularly and Ibuprophen does this worked, but not well. Finally Mistress Arlys O'Gordon from this list told me her secret. I found that a regime of 2 capsules Glucosamine, morning, noon, and evening every day for two weeks almost completely eliminated the swelling and pain I was having. After those two weeks I cut down to one capsule, three times a day, and finally to just two in the mornings. When the original flare up happened I had to wear bedroom slippers to work because I could hardly walk. All heeled shoes went to GoodWill and I discovered the beauty of "old lady" shoes like my mothers :-) Later, I put my mother on the same regime and _her_ doctor said that if she had started 30 years sooner (she was 80), it might have kept her from getting to that point at all. It did mean that the last years of her life were far more pain free than she had expected and she could take up knitting for one more round of bedroom slippers :-). At any rate, I still take one Glucosamine (I haven't found and difference personally when I combine it with Condroitin, but that may just be me!) every morning. I also take Lecithin, and Vitamin E. For some reason I feel less "achy" in the mornings when I've been careful to take them. My foot pain and stiffness has completely gone. I can actually stand on tip toe if I need to. My hands had begun to do what you say yours are now, and it never developed any further. Regina Romsey > Any recommendations on what helps this? Do I really need to see a > doctor who will probably just tell me to stop using my hands (yeah, > right !!!!), or at least wear a wrist brace/wrap and take Tylenol? I > already do these things. > > Thanks, guys! > > Allison P > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 17:39:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KMdQiF018454 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:39:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KMcicP015743; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:38:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KMcc6S009225; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:38:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2KMca6S009170 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:38:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OmYIDUfWb1gH7D+JbU2VXQI=">; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:38:07 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JQ7VUDR9; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:38:07 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:35:45 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Message-ID: <20040320.143708.1568.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-11, 13-24, 27-28, 30-31, 33-36, 39-40, 44-45, 47-48, 51-52, 55-58 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:05:01 -0600 Allison writes: > Any other sewers/handcrafters out there have any advice for this > aging baby boomer? Every time I hand sew I get terrible numbness and > tingling in my fingers, and pain in my forearms. And my right thumb > joint is giving me trouble, with what I know is early > osteoarthritis. > My hands are beginning to look like my mother's did as she got > older. > > It's gotten bad enough that I sew by hand for about 15 minutes, then > put it down for several hours, which means I'll have trouble > finishing the project in time. (I'm doing heavy duty hand sewing - putting in > bound buttonholes on a bodice.) > > Any recommendations on what helps this? Do I really need to see a > doctor who will probably just tell me to stop using my hands (yeah, > right !!!!), or at least wear a wrist brace/wrap and take Tylenol? > I already do these things. > > Thanks, guys! > > Allison P Hi Allison! I have acute rheumatoid arthtritis and have had for over 20 years. I don't sew, but do embroider and do bargello. Things I've found that help: If you can put your work in a standing frame, do it. Minimize the stress on your joints all around. teach yourself to be an ambidextrous seamstress, if you aren't already. Let one hand take the front of the work and the other hand the back. Keep your needles Very,Very Sharp. Every ten minutes or so, put your work down, raise your hand above your head and make and unmake a fist about ten times. Repeat for the other hand. It's very refreshing. Try a soft hand and wrist brace --they make the half-fingered kind to protect your thumb--I've got a pair, and they're great. Won't get in the way at all. Or try a seamstress' half-glove. The brace would probably be better for your thumb and wrist though. Tylenol Arthritis works better than regular Tylenol. It's designed to be instant-acting, AND last for the next 8 hrs. (Drink LOTS of water.) I can't tolerate aspirin or Advil or naprosyn (stuff gives me violent headaches and tummy upset). I take Tylenol and Vioxx (25mg daily). Works great. Glucosamene is lovely stuff, and no side effects. Topical arthritis creams can also help. It sounds to me more like setting your work in a standing or quilter's frame would be your best bet though--your problem screams of overstressed joints. Good luck! Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 17:56:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KMukiF018543 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:56:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KMu6cP016819; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:56:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KMu36S015217; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:56:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KMu16S015199 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:56:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net (razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2KMocE25386 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:50:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-4.155.21.174.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.174] helo=HELENPINTO) by razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B4pIb-0003wu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:50:37 -0800 Message-ID: <007801c40ecd$c08da790$ae159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:50:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9eff2dec048c91879417a0fb19a0b9add59350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Was black band, no fingerlooping X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Regina wrote: > Every time I go to that page and look at those instructions I cringe. It is > a good thing that I don't have to make my living manipulating things like > this with my hands. I have to tell you that it's easier than it looks from those instructions. I just found Rhiannon's CA (#108) on the web: http://fingerloop.org/ I think you'll do much better with these, but if you get a chance to take a class from her or another teacher, go for it, because it's even easier to learn in person. I have carpal tunnel (from C&I), and it's one of the things I do now that doesn't make my hands hurt, because you actually use all your fingers, not hold them in a cramped position (like hand-sewing). Every time you manipulate a loop, all of your fingers have to flex. It's very good exercise. And most braids can be done in less than one hour, so it's not taxing, especially if you sit well (no hunching). As a matter of fact your arms and pecs get a workout, too. Really, try it. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 18:31:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2KNVJiF018859 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:31:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KNUVcP018326; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:30:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KNUR6S026758; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:30:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2KNUP6S026745 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:30:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net (razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2KNJRZ14837 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:19:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-4.155.21.174.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.174] helo=HELENPINTO) by razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B4pkU-0001O6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:19:27 -0800 Message-ID: <00a101c40ed1$c7762920$ae159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:19:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9efa05f257c9335e3a5a03145d736af9308350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If I knew I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself... I used to avoid hand-sewing because it was boring, now I avoid it because it hurts and my fingers get numb. I cannot take my old friends aspirin and ibuprofen anymore (at least until I stop taking rat poison), so I have had to find other ways to cope. I found two ways: stopping when the tingling starts and applying heat when it hurts. Limit your time at a single activity, and go on to something else. Carpal tunnel comes from repition; if you vary the movement, you'll be better off. As for the heat, invest in a parafin bath. They have really come down in price, and you should have no trouble finding one in a drug or department store for about $35. Old-fashioned heating pads work; so does a bowl of hot water. Just be careful not to let it get too hot- shower temperature should do it. You might also consider seeing an occupational therapist, since they specialize in teaching you new ways to perform a task to avoid damaging yourself. Good luck, -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 19:01:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2L01GiF018975 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:01:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L00XcP019726; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:00:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L00W6S037450; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:00:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L00U6S037437 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:00:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-38-178.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.38.178]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L00IE8001976 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:00:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040320155035.05c22b30@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:51:22 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis In-Reply-To: <00a101c40ed1$c7762920$ae159b04@HELENPINTO> References: <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I found two ways: stopping when the tingling starts and applying heat when >it hurts. My doctor recommended ice for swelling, instead of heat. Check with your doctor on this point. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 19:53:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2L0rniF019297 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:53:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L0rBcP021946; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:53:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L0r76S056050; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:53:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L0r56S055990 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:53:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB69742615 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:07:58 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <405CE97A.1070900@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:01:46 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis References: <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> In-Reply-To: <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Allison wrote: > > Any recommendations on what helps this? Do I really need to see a > doctor who will probably just tell me to stop using my hands (yeah, > right !!!!), or at least wear a wrist brace/wrap and take Tylenol? I > already do these things. There are some amazing new drugs out there for arthritis. It may be worth your time to see a specialist and get treatment. At the least you might look into taking one of the NSAIDs like ibuprofen, which is more suited to dealing with inflammation than asprin or the drug in Tylenol. It sounds to me like you've got your hands to what I call "messed up" due to overuse. When my tenosynovitis bothers me or my RA kicks in about the only thing I can do is stop. When it gets better I resume the sewing projects. Especially with the tenosynovitis, because if it's hurting me it means I've damaged something, it's not just pain like the RA is. But it tends to take about 3 weeks for my hands and wrists to heal if they are "messed up". I try to avoid hand work, but if I do it I limit myself to one hour sessions. Or maybe 40 minutes, or a certain length or amount of work. It's very easy to keep pushing and strain my hands, but I keep telling myself I want to be able to sew when I am 90, even if it means quitting *right now* and going and doing something else for the rest of the day. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 19:59:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2L0x3iF019370 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:59:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L0wQcP022188; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:58:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L0wP6S057954; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:58:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L0wN6S057937 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:58:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-38-178.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.38.178]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L0wLjX028407 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:58:22 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040320165619.05565c20@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:58:18 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis In-Reply-To: <405CE97A.1070900@reddawn.net> References: <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >It sounds to me like you've got your hands to what I call "messed up" due >to overuse. When my tenosynovitis bothers me or my RA kicks in about the >only thing I can do is stop. When it gets better I resume the sewing >projects. Especially with the tenosynovitis, because if it's hurting me it >means I've damaged something, it's not just pain like the RA is. But it >tends to take about 3 weeks for my hands and wrists to heal if they are >"messed up". > >I try to avoid hand work, but if I do it I limit myself to one hour >sessions. Or maybe 40 minutes, or a certain length or amount of work. It's >very easy to keep pushing and strain my hands, but I keep telling myself I >want to be able to sew when I am 90, even if it means quitting *right now* >and going and doing something else for the rest of the day. Make your costuming projects modular. Do the wrist-intensive stuff for a while, and when you have to stop do some other stuff that isn't so wrist-intensive. Assuming, of course, that this is possible. Otherwise you will just have to stretch out the time it takes you to finish a costume. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 21:18:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2L2ISiF020034 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:18:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L2FJcP025590; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:15:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L2FF6S083969; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:15:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L2FD6S083952 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:15:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i2L2FC8W019718 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:15:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.218] (tnt-1-4.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.196]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2L2F9Pw019647 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:15:10 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> References: <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:09:12 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 3:05 PM -0600 3/20/04, Allison wrote: >Any other sewers/handcrafters out there have any advice for this >aging baby boomer? Every time I hand sew I get terrible numbness >and tingling in my fingers, and pain in my forearms. And my right >thumb joint is giving me trouble, with what I know is early >osteoarthritis. My hands are beginning to look like my mother's did >as she got older. > >It's gotten bad enough that I sew by hand for about 15 minutes, then >put it down for several hours, which means I'll have trouble >finishing the project in time. (I'm doing heavy duty hand sewing - >putting in bound buttonholes on a bodice.) > >Any recommendations on what helps this? Do I really need to see a >doctor who will probably just tell me to stop using my hands (yeah, >right !!!!), or at least wear a wrist brace/wrap and take Tylenol? >I already do these things. While it's no sure cure, you should probably take a good look at larger posture issues, not just what you do with your hands. For example, the thing that most commonly causes tingling and numbness in my fingers has to do with postures and actions that put pressure on the nerves coming off my spine -- not things I'm doing with my hands themselves. Take a look at how you're sitting, how you're holding your shoulders and your head, whether you're resting your arms on any surfaces as you work. For example, are you craning your head forward and bending your neck a lot? (The nerves for your hands come partially off your neck vertebrae, so bad neck posture can affect them.) Are you rounding your shoulders or keeping them pulled back? Do you habitually tend to have muscle knots in your shoulders and neck? Do you tend to rest your forearms against a chair armrest while working? (Bad idea.) Then there are the issues having to do with how you hold your hands themselves as you work, but those tend to be more directly identifiable. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 22:05:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2L35KiF020269 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:05:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L34ZcP027658; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:04:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L34W6S000951; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:04:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L34U6T000930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:04:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2L3cTWm003859 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:38:29 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A63B1891006A; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:04:27 -0500 Received: from cbsweger.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.115]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:04:26 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <000b01c40ef2$05437d00$735183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:10:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do see a rheumatologist and get the right diagnosis re athritis or PMR, or whatever. There are tests at this point, the results of which can be specific for dealing with discomfort or disability. As my sister the nurse says, "Listen to your body". We have a sort of joke that says" when you get up in the morning, see what is working, and plan your day." At this point, my worst pain comes in the middle of the night. I use topical pain reliever like "aspercream" and wear space gloves to bed when the inflammation is active. That seems to help somewhat in getting through a normal 'sewing day.' I started taking Glucosimine with condratin(sp?) about 2 years ago, and that is helping the sore joints, overall. My grandmother's and my mother's hands were gnarled in their later years, but they continued making beautiful things with their hands to near the end of their earthly time. Should I expect more? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allison" To: Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 4:05 PM Subject: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis > Any other sewers/handcrafters out there have any advice for this aging > baby boomer? Every time I hand sew I get terrible numbness and > tingling in my fingers, and pain in my forearms. And my right thumb > joint is giving me trouble, with what I know is early osteoarthritis. > My hands are beginning to look like my mother's did as she got older. > > It's gotten bad enough that I sew by hand for about 15 minutes, then > put it down for several hours, which means I'll have trouble finishing > the project in time. (I'm doing heavy duty hand sewing - putting in > bound buttonholes on a bodice.) > > Any recommendations on what helps this? Do I really need to see a > doctor who will probably just tell me to stop using my hands (yeah, > right !!!!), or at least wear a wrist brace/wrap and take Tylenol? I > already do these things. > > Thanks, guys! > > Allison P > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 22:12:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2L3CUiF020297 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:12:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L3BpcP028019; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:11:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L3Bn6S003376; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:11:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L3Bj6T003354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:11:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2L3jiWm009054 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:45:44 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A7F01FB600D6; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:11:44 -0500 Received: from cbsweger.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.115]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:11:43 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <001901c40ef3$09224860$735183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:17:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The condroitin is recommended for the body's ability absorb the glucosimine. With a heavy intake of any of the anti inflammatory medications, be sure and get your liver enzymes checked on a regular basis. All part of the regimen Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 4:54 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis > Allison, > > I feel your pain, or at least I have felt it although mine was in my feet, > particularly my left one. I know what you mean about osteo-arthritis and > hands though because that's how my mother's were by the time she was in her > fifties - she could still use them, but they hurt. > The advice about seeing a doctor is good. My experience was that my doctor > told me it was just part of getting old (grrr). He suggested more aspirin > for the inflammation (not Tylenol, Aspirin). Since Aspirin doesn't bother > me particularly and Ibuprophen does this worked, but not well. Finally > Mistress Arlys O'Gordon from this list told me her secret. > I found that a regime of 2 capsules Glucosamine, morning, noon, and > evening every day for two weeks almost completely eliminated the swelling > and pain I was having. After those two weeks I cut down to one capsule, > three times a day, and finally to just two in the mornings. When the > original flare up happened I had to wear bedroom slippers to work because I > could hardly walk. All heeled shoes went to GoodWill and I discovered the > beauty of "old lady" shoes like my mothers :-) Later, I put my mother on > the same regime and _her_ doctor said that if she had started 30 years > sooner (she was 80), it might have kept her from getting to that point at > all. It did mean that the last years of her life were far more pain free > than she had expected and she could take up knitting for one more round of > bedroom slippers :-). > At any rate, I still take one Glucosamine (I haven't found and difference > personally when I combine it with Condroitin, but that may just be me!) > every morning. I also take Lecithin, and Vitamin E. For some reason I feel > less "achy" in the mornings when I've been careful to take them. My foot > pain and stiffness has completely gone. I can actually stand on tip toe if > I need to. > My hands had begun to do what you say yours are now, and it never developed > any further. > Regina Romsey > > > > Any recommendations on what helps this? Do I really need to see a > > doctor who will probably just tell me to stop using my hands (yeah, > > right !!!!), or at least wear a wrist brace/wrap and take Tylenol? I > > already do these things. > > > > Thanks, guys! > > > > Allison P > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 20 22:21:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2L3LWiF020325 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:21:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L3KLcP028521; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:20:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L3KH6S006185; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:20:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L3KE6T006161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:20:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2L3sDWm020735 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:54:14 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A9EA1CE500BA; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:20:10 -0500 Received: from cbsweger.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.115]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:20:09 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <002301c40ef4$37576520$735183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040320.143708.1568.0.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:25:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia, you have given some great hints. I especially like the ambidextrous suggestion. After foot surgery, that was a timely lesson indeed! Another one, use the tools of your kit, and not fingers, teeth toes or such. Scissors, screwdeivers, pliers and such are more than implements of refined craft. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia J Ley" To: Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 5:35 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis > On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:05:01 -0600 Allison > writes: > > Any other sewers/handcrafters out there have any advice for this > > aging baby boomer? Every time I hand sew I get terrible numbness and > > tingling in my fingers, and pain in my forearms. And my right thumb > > joint is giving me trouble, with what I know is early > > osteoarthritis. > > My hands are beginning to look like my mother's did as she got > > older. > > > > It's gotten bad enough that I sew by hand for about 15 minutes, then > > put it down for several hours, which means I'll have trouble > > finishing the project in time. (I'm doing heavy duty hand sewing - > putting in > > bound buttonholes on a bodice.) > > > > Any recommendations on what helps this? Do I really need to see a > > doctor who will probably just tell me to stop using my hands (yeah, > > right !!!!), or at least wear a wrist brace/wrap and take Tylenol? > > I already do these things. > > > > Thanks, guys! > > > > Allison P > > Hi Allison! I have acute rheumatoid arthtritis and have had for over 20 > years. I don't sew, but do embroider and do bargello. Things I've found > that help: > > If you can put your work in a standing frame, do it. Minimize the stress > on your joints all around. > > teach yourself to be an ambidextrous seamstress, if you aren't already. > Let one hand take the front of the work and the other hand the back. > > Keep your needles Very,Very Sharp. > > Every ten minutes or so, put your work down, raise your hand above your > head and make and unmake a fist about ten times. Repeat for the other > hand. It's very refreshing. > > Try a soft hand and wrist brace --they make the half-fingered kind to > protect your thumb--I've got a pair, and they're great. Won't get in the > way at all. Or try a seamstress' half-glove. The brace would probably be > better for your thumb and wrist though. > > Tylenol Arthritis works better than regular Tylenol. It's designed to be > instant-acting, AND last for the next 8 hrs. (Drink LOTS of water.) > > I can't tolerate aspirin or Advil or naprosyn (stuff gives me violent > headaches and tummy upset). I take Tylenol and Vioxx (25mg daily). Works > great. Glucosamene is lovely stuff, and no side effects. > > Topical arthritis creams can also help. It sounds to me more like setting > your work in a standing or quilter's frame would be your best bet > though--your problem screams of overstressed joints. > > Good luck! > > Arlys > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 00:00:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2L50XiF020664 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 00:00:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L4xkcP003944; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:59:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L4xh6S039452; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:59:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L4xf6S039410 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:59:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from allison@aristotle.net) Received: from aristotle.net (pcp456740pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net[68.51.39.191]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004032104593501600s5ge5e>; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 04:59:35 +0000 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:54:22 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Allison To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200403210000.i2L00v6T037637@net.indra.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow! This group is great. Thanks, everyone, for the great feedback on my hand problems! There were a couple of things I hadn't thought of or done yet. This aging process isn't much fun, is it? The phrase "youth is wasted on the young" has a much greater meaning to me now... Allison P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 00:46:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2L5kIiF020793 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 00:46:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L5jZcP006254; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:45:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L5iu6S054136; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:44:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L5i96S053886 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:44:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-38-178.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.38.178]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L5i8E8011705 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:44:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040320214007.05c00de0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:40:48 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis In-Reply-To: References: <200403210000.i2L00v6T037637@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >This aging process isn't much fun, is it? Yeah, but it beats the alternative... CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 00:52:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2L5qeiF020829 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 00:52:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L5q1cP006624; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L5q06S056216; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:52:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts7.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.165]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L5pw6S056184 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:51:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.70.4.70]) by simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040321052735.IOBE4830.simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 00:27:35 -0500 Message-ID: <005301c40f05$9ee86520$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> <4.3.1.2.20040320155035.05c22b30@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 00:30:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >I found two ways: stopping when the tingling starts and applying heat when > >it hurts. > > My doctor recommended ice for swelling, instead of heat. Check with your > doctor on this point. > > Depends on the injury, use heat to loosen the muscles, cold to bring down the swelling. When my husband had broken both of his legs in an accident, while in physio had been told to alternate between the two before and after his sessions. It speeds up the healing time. I find the heat works great to get the circulation going, and if there is still swelling after that, I ice it. (bum knee) Seems to work for me. :-) Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 01:06:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2L66liF020908 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 01:06:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L667cP007245; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 23:06:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L6656S060356; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 23:06:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L6646S060343 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 23:06:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-124-38-178.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.38.178]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L662jX003925 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 00:06:03 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040320220459.04d52cd0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:05:52 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis In-Reply-To: <005301c40f05$9ee86520$cb6afea9@sherry> References: <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> <4.3.1.2.20040320155035.05c22b30@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >I found two ways: stopping when the tingling starts and applying heat >when > > >it hurts. > > > > My doctor recommended ice for swelling, instead of heat. Check with your > > doctor on this point. > > > > > >Depends on the injury, use heat to loosen the muscles, cold to bring down >the swelling. When my husband had broken both of his legs in an accident, >while in physio had been told to alternate between the two before and after >his sessions. It speeds up the healing time. > >I find the heat works great to get the circulation going, and if there is >still swelling after that, I ice it. (bum knee) Seems to work for me. :-) My doctor said if I needed to ice my wrists if I was away from home, I should go to a fast food place and buy a soda with lots of ice in it. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 01:45:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2L6jDiF021006 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 01:45:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L6iVcP008942; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 23:44:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L6iU6S071691; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 23:44:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2L6iS6S071654 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 23:44:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from general@demaslaw.com) Received: from demaslaw.com (c-67-174-33-115.client.comcast.net[67.174.33.115]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004032106391601100icr5te>; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 06:39:16 +0000 Message-ID: <405D3894.6060206@demaslaw.com> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:39:16 -0800 From: General User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Kenmore 1750 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I bought a Kenmore 1750 in a cabinet at a yard sale for $60.00. It has all metal parts, the complete instructional book, and all the cams including the buttonhole cams except for one; a zigzag stitch. I have two questions. Who made the Kenmore and where can I get the missing cam? LD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 06:47:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2LBlWiF001862 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 06:47:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LBkicP020914; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 04:46:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LBke6S062043; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 04:46:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LBkb6T062020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 04:46:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2LCKgWm008561 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 07:20:42 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A09B17D70060; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 06:46:35 -0500 Received: from mvettorel1.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.125]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 06:46:35 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <001a01c40f3a$f6c5e260$7d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <405D3894.6060206@demaslaw.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kenmore 1750 Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 06:52:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Contact Sears . Use the toll free number and ask for 'Parts". If you know which cam it is (parts number) they might be able to supply it. Another resource is a sewing/ vacuum parts set up at a Fles Market. Sometimes these people specialize in old parts. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "General" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 1:39 AM Subject: [h-cost] Kenmore 1750 > I bought a Kenmore 1750 in a cabinet at a yard sale for $60.00. It has > all metal parts, the complete instructional book, and all the cams > including the buttonhole cams except for one; a zigzag stitch. I have > two questions. Who made the Kenmore and where can I get the missing cam? > > LD > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 07:13:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2LCD6iF001933 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 07:13:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LCCXcP022087; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 05:12:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LCCW6S069825; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 05:12:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LCCP6T069808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 05:12:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2LCBnjY026437 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 07:11:49 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 07:11:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <405D86A6.2050601@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 07:12:22 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kenmore 1750 References: <405D3894.6060206@demaslaw.com> In-Reply-To: <405D3894.6060206@demaslaw.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO General wrote: > I bought a Kenmore 1750 in a cabinet at a yard sale for $60.00. It has > all metal parts, the complete instructional book, and all the cams > including the buttonhole cams except for one; a zigzag stitch. I have > two questions. Who made the Kenmore and where can I get the missing cam? My mother's Kenmore used the same cam for the zigzag as for the straight; the only difference was you set the width up from 0 for the zigzag. You might want to give that a try. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent We belong to the "What Does This Button Do?" school of decision making. -- Kaja Foglio _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 08:49:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2LDnYiF002187 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:49:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LDm5cP025375; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 06:48:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LDm06S097940; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 06:48:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mx03.supplyguys.net (mx03.supplyguys.net [65.115.27.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LDlu6T097928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 06:47:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wendyc@vivid.net) Received: (qmail 18746 invoked by uid 89); 21 Mar 2004 13:42:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) (65.115.27.21) by 0 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2004 13:42:59 -0000 Received: from c-66-56-95-30.atl.client2.attbi.com (c-66-56-95-30.atl.client2.attbi.com [66.56.95.30]) by secure.supplyguys.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:47:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1079876875.405d9d0b1ebcc@secure.supplyguys.net> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:47:55 -0500 From: wendyc@vivid.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kenmore 1750 References: <405D3894.6060206@demaslaw.com> <405D86A6.2050601@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <405D86A6.2050601@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just went up and looked at my Kenmore, it is model 158.xxxxx. (Pale green in color, metal head, purchased 30 +/- years ago when it was the top of the line model). To do a simple zigzag you adjust the dials on the front for zigzag, no cam needed. There are several decorative stitches that use the zigzag stitches that do use cams. Wendy Quoting Cynthia Virtue : > General wrote: > > > I bought a Kenmore 1750 in a cabinet at a yard sale for $60.00. It has > > all metal parts, the complete instructional book, and all the cams > > including the buttonhole cams except for one; a zigzag stitch. I have > > two questions. Who made the Kenmore and where can I get the missing cam? > > My mother's Kenmore used the same cam for the zigzag as for the > straight; the only difference was you set the width up from 0 for the > zigzag. You might want to give that a try. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > We belong to the "What Does This Button Do?" school of decision making. > -- Kaja Foglio > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 11:12:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2LGCDiF002855 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:12:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LGBRcP002370; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LGBL6S045921; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:11:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LGBK6S045903 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:11:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06931439pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.138.0.130]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B1D515FD8 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:11:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Kenmore 1750 Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:20:59 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <405D86A6.2050601@thibault.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ask on the vintagekenmoresew list on yahoo. Somebody there may have the cam you need. -Megan -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Cynthia Virtue Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 7:12 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kenmore 1750 General wrote: > I bought a Kenmore 1750 in a cabinet at a yard sale for $60.00. It has > all metal parts, the complete instructional book, and all the cams > including the buttonhole cams except for one; a zigzag stitch. I have > two questions. Who made the Kenmore and where can I get the missing cam? My mother's Kenmore used the same cam for the zigzag as for the straight; the only difference was you set the width up from 0 for the zigzag. You might want to give that a try. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent We belong to the "What Does This Button Do?" school of decision making. -- Kaja Foglio _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 11:48:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2LGmdiF003063 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:48:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LGm2cP004596; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LGm16S059035; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:48:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41311.mail.yahoo.com (web41311.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2LGlx6S059000 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:47:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aureliarufinia@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040321164113.40652.qmail@web41311.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.75.43.250] by web41311.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:41:13 PST Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:41:13 -0800 (PST) From: Aurelia Rufinia To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200403210001.i2L0136U037680@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Formine, my physical therpist recommended using something like icy-hot (cryogenic therepy, I think they called it) massaged into my worst and forearm at times (I use a CVS genenric, it helps, especially the massaging part.). She also reccomended "immersion therepy" filling on half of the sink with water as warm as I could stand, and the other as cold as I couls stand, and holding my hand in the cold for thirty seconds, and then in the warm for... ten? I don't remember, I'm sorry ( don't have a split sink anymore, so this doesn't happen as much as it should.) It helps. AUrelia, who has had wrint problems since she was 14. ===== Baroness Aurelia Rufinia House Iron Maiden, Barony of Carolingia, East Kingdom, Northshield Ex-Pat "In fact, if you put 'oy' and 'poodle' together, in the same sentence, you'd have a great new catchphrase, you know? Like, 'Oy with the poodles already.'" __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 12:52:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2LHqSiF003437 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:52:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LHpjcP008523; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:51:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LHpg6S081864; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:51:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40802.mail.yahoo.com (web40802.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.179]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2LHpf6S081809 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:51:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cyncorley@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040321174455.69313.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.229.159.62] by web40802.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:44:55 PST Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:44:55 -0800 (PST) From: Cynthia Corley To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Charles II on TV tonight X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a bit OT, but has anyone seen the 4-hour film on Charles II that's on US TV tonight? Specifically, i'm hoping there are some good scenes set in London playhouses--does anyone know if there are? ===== Art is not a mirror held up to reality but a hammer with which to shape it. Bertolt Brecht __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 14:09:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2LJ9GiF003920 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:09:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LIGacP009772; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:16:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LIGZ6S090831; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:16:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LIGQ6S090781 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:16:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.132.193]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7309B6A7A4 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:16:25 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:18:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Message-ID: <405D6BDE.24666.1CF46D8B@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20040320214007.05c00de0@mail.frys.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >This aging process isn't much fun, is it? > > Yeah, but it beats the alternative... I want *more* alternatives! Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 17:24:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2LMOPiF005030 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 17:24:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LMNDcP023279; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:23:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LMN36S083374; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:23:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LMN16S083327 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:23:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from allison@aristotle.net) Received: from aristotle.net (pcp456740pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net[68.51.39.191]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004032122225601600skfame>; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:22:56 +0000 Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:17:42 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Allison To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200403211900.i2LJ0o6T007265@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <9255D62A-7B85-11D8-9D2B-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: aging X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Amen, sister!!!! > >>> This aging process isn't much fun, is it? >> >> Yeah, but it beats the alternative... > > I want *more* alternatives! > > Kat > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 18:14:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2LNE4iF005175 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:14:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LNDLcP026270; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:13:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LNDJ6S001699; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:13:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LNDH6S001683 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:13:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net (razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2LNC9Z16258 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:12:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-4.155.21.55.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.55] helo=HELENPINTO) by razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B5C6y-0006AN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:12:08 -0800 Message-ID: <018301c40f99$eccfa2a0$37159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net><4.3.1.2.20040320155035.05c22b30@mail.frys.com> <005301c40f05$9ee86520$cb6afea9@sherry> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:12:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9efc7a7f875d5c57df9238807c0204a9eb8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 12:30 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis > > > > > > > >I found two ways: stopping when the tingling starts and applying heat > when > > >it hurts. > > > > My doctor recommended ice for swelling, instead of heat. Check with your > > doctor on this point. > > Thanks, you are correct about the swelling, but that's not an issue for me yet, just the pain and the numbness. But most times I manage to head it off by pacing myself and varying my activities. As long as I avoid keeping my hands in one tight position, I manage really well. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 18:18:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2LNIkiF005195 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:18:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LNI3cP026660; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:18:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LNI16S003549; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:18:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.compassnet.com.au [203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LNHx6T003455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:18:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from glendar@compassnet.com.au) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.164]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id i2LNRCOV028138 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:27:13 +1100 Message-ID: <02e701c40f9a$f9a5f640$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:19:33 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Allison, Like others, from family experience I can recommend Glucosamine for your problem. My father has severe cartilage wearing problems in his back, between a whole string of vertebrae (the bones were actually rubbing on each other - ouch!), and in one finger, after a tendon snap and replacement 40 years ago affected the movement of his index, so the middle finger has been used as both for all these years. He also had arthritis in his other fingers, and shoulder problems. Recommended dosages as per the glucosamine box have worked wonders, and after a few weeks he is no longer in constant severe pain, and has been in fair condition for the six months since he started these. He had previously tried Evening Primrose oil, with some affect, and I think Shark Cartilage, but this seems to be a 'wonder drug' for him. My husband has had arthritis in his fingers for years, and he's only 40. He also has archer's back (partially fused vertebrae), and a tendon problem in his elbow after a sword blow bounced off his segmentata and went right into the 'funny bone' part of the elbow. This was affecting his feeling in his hands, as well as the years of archery causing huge clicks in his elbow when he straightened it fully. All these have been fine since a he started on the glucosamine tablets. He has an allergy to fish, but his particular allergy isn't being worried by this extract, though others mileage may vary. He's been on them since Christmas, and will stay on them, as it should stop any further degeneration. He loves to make varying things from wood, leather, pewter, leather etc for reenactment and if he has time, paints model trains and miniature figurines, so he is really happy that the arthritis won't progress so rapidly now, because he would be lost without his hobbies. Hope it works for you! Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 18:51:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2LNpMiF005321 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:51:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LNoZcP028402; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:50:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LNoW6S015273; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:50:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2LNoU6S015247 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:50:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from general@demaslaw.com) Received: from demaslaw.com (c-67-174-33-115.client.comcast.net[67.174.33.115]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004032123502501100ij71ne>; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:50:25 +0000 Message-ID: <405E2A41.4020401@demaslaw.com> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:50:25 -0800 From: General User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kenmore 1750 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the advice on the Kenmore 1750. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 20:08:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2M18WiF005682 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:08:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2M16dcP003450; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:06:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2M16a6S043728; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:06:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2M16Z6S043698 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:06:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC3CA5F0098; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 19:07:08 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC27F1E0160; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 19:06:47 -0600 Message-ID: <00bb01c40fa9$d9115d20$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:06:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Hollywood Costume sell X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2M18WiF005682 Status: RO I don't know if this whole url will work, but here are some great Hollywood costumes on auction at eBay: http://search.liveauctions.ebay.com/search/search.dll?GetResult&ht=11&ctlgid=5712&ahid=1457&lc=1&isl=0&ccn=Entertainment Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 21:58:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2M2wMiF005952 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:58:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2M2uJcP011146; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 19:56:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2M2uB6S084859; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 19:56:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2M2uA6S084840 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 19:56:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from casamai@sbcglobal.net) Received: from casamai (adsl-65-69-57-177.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net [65.69.57.177]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2M2u98R024357 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:56:09 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001701c40fb9$66b94200$0c01a8c0@sbcglobal.net> From: "Bruce & Nora Mai" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00bb01c40fa9$d9115d20$0200a8c0@MOM> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hollywood Costume sell Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:57:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What fabulous stuff! Completelyout of my price range but fun to look at. Nora ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 7:06 PM Subject: [h-cost] Hollywood Costume sell I don't know if this whole url will work, but here are some great Hollywood costumes on auction at eBay: http://search.liveauctions.ebay.com/search/search.dll?GetResult&ht=11&ctlgid=5712&ahid=1457&lc=1&isl=0&ccn=Entertainment Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 23:06:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2M46TiF006146 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:06:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2M45fcP015812; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:05:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2M45c6S011524; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:05:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2M45Z6S011474 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:05:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A62FCB50098; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:06:07 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A618D8A01A2; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:05:44 -0600 Message-ID: <00eb01c40fc2$da300a30$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00bb01c40fa9$d9115d20$0200a8c0@MOM> <001701c40fb9$66b94200$0c01a8c0@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hollywood Costume sell Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:05:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My husband was drooling over the John Wayne items. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 23:11:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2M4BKiF006164 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:11:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2M4AUcP016113; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:10:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2M4AU6S013363; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:10:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2M4AS6S013356 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:10:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.121.248]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B5CEF-0007Yt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:19:39 -0800 Received: from dialup-4.155.21.55.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.55] helo=HELENPINTO) by razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B5CEE-0000J3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:19:38 -0800 Message-ID: <019c01c40f9a$f8f6f190$37159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net><4.3.1.2.20040320155035.05c22b30@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040320220459.04d52cd0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:19:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef03bbbb10cb669c1a628aca2c28b7c6f6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO CarolynKayta wrote: > > My doctor said if I needed to ice my wrists if I was away from home, I > should go to a fast food place and buy a soda with lots of ice in it. > One of the best, cheapest, re-usable ice packs is a bag of frozen peas. (These are *never* to be eaten.) You keep them in the freezer, and pull them out when you need them. Bang them down on the countertop to loosen the peas, if they've formed a block, and then wrap them in a towel and apply to whatever needs icing. It's not just for swelling- it works for burns as well. When the peas start to get soft, put them back in the freezer. No kitchen should be without them. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 21 23:30:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2M4UDiF006258 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:30:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2M4TTcP017608; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:29:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2M4TS6S020511; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:29:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m3.nyc.untd.com (m3.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2M4TQ6S020472 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:29:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from btana@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"MW/ewWa+Q2FG65sHxVDc3aQUnHDfxmT7XGFRkuSp8422PUaLBiTYvw==">; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:29:15 PST Received: (from btana@juno.com) by m3.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JRA4B3CA; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:29:15 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:22:56 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Message-ID: <20040321.213815.1008.1.btana@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-25,35-38,40-42 From: btana@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:09:12 -0800 Heather Rose Jones writes: > While it's no sure cure, you should probably take a good look at > larger posture issues, not just what you do with your hands. For > example, the thing that most commonly causes tingling and numbness > in my fingers has to do with postures and actions that put pressure on > the nerves coming off my spine -- not things I'm doing with my hands > themselves. Take a look at how you're sitting, how you're holding > your shoulders and your head, whether you're resting your arms on > any surfaces as you work. For example, are you craning your head > forward and bending your neck a lot? (The nerves for your hands come > partially off your neck vertebrae, so bad neck posture can affect > them.) Are you rounding your shoulders or keeping them pulled back? > > Do you habitually tend to have muscle knots in your shoulders and > neck? Do you tend to rest your forearms against a chair armrest > ile working? (Bad idea.) > > Then there are the issues having to do with how you hold your hands > themselves as you work, but those tend to be more directly > identifiable. > > Heather Heather, you are very correct. I've actually had a problem, fairly long standing, with particular fingers going numb, and alot of times for no real apparent reason. I tend to be very relaxed when I drive on open highway, but that's when I seem to get it the most and the worst. A chiropractor told me that what I should do is massage the nerve bundle in the pit of my arm. My left is worse than my right, but it actually worked. Along with somewhat regular chiropractic visits, I try to keep my back in alignment and find that also helps keep the numbness down. (I'll recommend a chiropractor over a doctor any day! And I'll go to one before I go to a regular doctor as well.) Astrid Never argue with a dragon, for thou art crunchy and go well with Brie. http://www.geocities.com/tul_juriss - for links to ALL my current sites http://www.geocities.com/astridofthehorde - costumes I've made http://www.geocities.com/house_qul_mupwi - The noble Klingon House http://www.geocities.com/klingon_pirates_guild - The Klingon Pirate's Guild ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 08:01:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MD1YiF001429 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:01:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MD0ecP017214; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 06:00:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MD0T6S089129; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 06:00:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mattdrury.net ([66.77.170.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MD0R6S089116 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 06:00:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from widowweeds@cs.com) Received: from Spooler by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32) ID MO000423; 22 Mar 04 08:00:26 -0500 Received: from spooler by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32); 22 Mar 04 08:00:17 -0500 Received: from mjd (66.77.170.226) by mattdrury.net (Mercury/32 v3.32) with ESMTP ID MG000421; 22 Mar 04 08:00:11 -0500 Message-ID: <055b01c4100d$9b11a2a0$11fea8c0@mjd> From: "Widow Weeds" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040321174455.69313.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II on TV tonight Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:00:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This is a bit OT, but has anyone seen the 4-hour film > on Charles II that's on US TV tonight? My TiVo grabbed it and I'll watch it sometime this week. If there are any playhouses, I'll be sure to let you know. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 10:23:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MFNJiF001988 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:23:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MFMEcP028195; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:22:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MFM76S050187; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:22:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2MFM36S050116 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:22:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OkwYFmSqO5kEWsJFto/ELLI=">; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:21:22 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JRB9M5BM; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:21:22 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:13:55 -0800 Message-ID: <20040322.072101.1576.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-7,9-17 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] fingerloop braiding: black band X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My problem is that my fingers wouldn't be able to stand the stress. I do have a lucet though--may give that a try. Arlys On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:33:41 -0800 "Wanda Pease" writes: > Every time I go to that page and look at those instructions I cringe. > It is a good thing that I don't have to make my living manipulating things > like this with my hands. > > Regina > > > > A finger-looped braid was one of the most common laces for closing > women's > > dresses in the 15th c., most likely of silk. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 10:25:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MFPtiF001994 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:25:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MFPBcP028472; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:25:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MFPB6S051863; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:25:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14008.mail.yahoo.com (web14008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2MFP86S051829 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:25:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040322150052.34830.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:00:52 GMT Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:00:52 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] French ? tudor To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <405C5742.4010705@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.geocities.com/ailithmac/portraits.html Look at the Potrait of Eleonora in the pink/rose dress. --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > Hey, haven't seen that one before. It looks pretty, > and simple. The > band of trim or embroidery around the upper arms > strikes me as pretty > unusual, though. Has anyone seen others like that? > --sue, currently planted firmly in the 14th c, but > bookmarking it for > future garb projects > > otsisto wrote: > > > http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/refo/ho_29.100.197.htm > > > > Anne de Pisseleu > > > > De > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 11:12:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MGBxiF002185 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:12:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGB1cP003443; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGAu6S080689; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:10:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGAt6S080620 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:10:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CD0D42615 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:25:56 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <405F122A.1000801@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:19:54 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II on TV tonight References: <20040321174455.69313.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> <055b01c4100d$9b11a2a0$11fea8c0@mjd> In-Reply-To: <055b01c4100d$9b11a2a0$11fea8c0@mjd> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Widow Weeds wrote: >>This is a bit OT, but has anyone seen the 4-hour film >>on Charles II that's on US TV tonight? > > > My TiVo grabbed it and I'll watch it sometime this week. If there are any > playhouses, I'll be sure to let you know. What channel was that? Any chance it gets replayed? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 11:36:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MGaPiF002299 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:36:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGZ7cP006643; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:35:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGYd6S097567; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:34:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGYV6S097455 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:34:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Widowweeds@cs.com) Received: from Widowweeds@cs.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.46.49d78664 (15864) for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:29:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from tlininn ([66.77.170.226]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v98.19) with ESMTP id MAILINID63-3df8405f145783; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:29:12 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c4102a$cd66be30$6401a8c0@tlininn> From: "Widow Weeds" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040321174455.69313.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com><055b01c4100d$9b11a2a0$11fea8c0@mjd> <405F122A.1000801@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II on TV tonight Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:29:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-AOL-IP: 66.77.170.226 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What channel was that? Any chance it gets replayed? It was 4 hours on A&E last night. You're in luck: the TiVo has future showings listed for 3/26 at 8pm, 3/27 at 12am, 3/27 at 1pm and 3/28 at 11am. Enjoy! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 11:37:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MGbriF002314 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:37:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGb0cP006852; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:37:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGax6S099323; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:36:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mx.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGYi6S097569 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:34:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Widowweeds@cs.com) Received: from Widowweeds@cs.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.24.51c24dc2 (15874) for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:29:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from tlininn ([66.77.170.226]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v98.19) with ESMTP id MAILINID71-3e02405f14612d3; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:29:21 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01c4102a$d52c5620$6401a8c0@tlininn> From: "Widow Weeds" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040321174455.69313.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com><055b01c4100d$9b11a2a0$11fea8c0@mjd> <405F122A.1000801@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II on TV tonight Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:29:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-AOL-IP: 66.77.170.226 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What channel was that? Any chance it gets replayed? It was 4 hours on A&E last night. You're in luck: the TiVo has future showings listed for 3/26 at 8pm, 3/27 at 12am, 3/27 at 1pm and 3/28 at 11am. Enjoy! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 11:40:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MGe6iF002325 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:40:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGcJcP007014; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:38:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGcI6S000395; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:38:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGcC6S000289 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:38:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Widowweeds@cs.com) Received: from Widowweeds@cs.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.160.2d2d87d4 (15889) for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:32:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from tlininn ([66.77.170.226]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v98.19) with ESMTP id MAILINID84-3e11405f15343a3; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:32:52 -0500 Message-ID: <001001c4102b$534363a0$6401a8c0@tlininn> From: "Widow Weeds" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040321174455.69313.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II on TV tonight Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:32:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-AOL-IP: 66.77.170.226 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Specifically, i'm hoping there are some good scenes > set in London playhouses--does anyone know if there are? At 2:11 of the four-hour program there's a bit at "Theatre Royal, Drury Lane 1669" that may be of interest. It runs for about four minutes and has stage and backstage scenes. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 11:44:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MGihiF002342 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:44:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGgmcP007530; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:42:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGgl6S003598; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:42:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGgh6S003509 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:42:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Widowweeds@cs.com) Received: from Widowweeds@cs.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.1a3.21e8ab59 (15889) for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:37:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from tlininn ([66.77.170.226]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v98.19) with ESMTP id MAILINID84-3e11405f16462c7; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:37:26 -0500 Message-ID: <002901c4102b$f66eef40$6401a8c0@tlininn> From: "Widow Weeds" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040321174455.69313.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com><055b01c4100d$9b11a2a0$11fea8c0@mjd><405F122A.1000801@reddawn.net> <000901c4102a$cd66be30$6401a8c0@tlininn> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II on TV tonight Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:37:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-AOL-IP: 66.77.170.226 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > You're in luck: the TiVo has future showings listed for 3/26 at 8pm, I should qualify those are US Eastern times. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 11:56:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MGuDiF002410 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:56:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGrvdt008579; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:55:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGj96S005474; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:45:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imr-m03.mx.aol.com (imr-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGj56S005388 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:45:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Widowweeds@cs.com) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.230]) by imr-m03.mx.aol.com (v97.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN7-8405f16d3178; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:39:47 -0500 Received: from Widowweeds@cs.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.1ec.1bed9169 (15864) for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:34:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from tlininn ([66.77.170.226]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v98.19) with ESMTP id MAILINID63-3df8405f159033c; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:34:24 -0500 Message-ID: <001b01c4102b$8a4dd010$6401a8c0@tlininn> From: "Widow Weeds" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040321174455.69313.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II on TV tonight Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:34:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-AOL-IP: 172.18.150.230 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Specifically, i'm hoping there are some good scenes > set in London playhouses--does anyone know if there are? At 2:11 of the four-hour program there's a bit at "Theatre Royal, Drury Lane 1669" that may be of interest. It runs for about four minutes and has stage and backstage scenes. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 11:56:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MGuEiF002411 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:56:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGtecP008893; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:55:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MGte6S012817; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:55:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40404.mail.yahoo.com (web40404.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2MGtH6S012427 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:55:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hanstar88@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040322155532.41084.qmail@web40404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.204.176.127] by web40404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:55:32 PST Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:55:32 -0800 (PST) From: Mary To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200403210001.i2L0136U037680@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Allison, I have bilateral epichondilitis (sp?), which is tendonitis in both arms. I went to PT for 9 months, took Vioxx, etc, etc, but with very little results. Then, the doctor sent me to acupuncture. By the 2nd treatment, I was soooo much better, it was incredible. I go once a week now and it really helps to control the pain and swelling. The bonus is that if I have any other problems (pain in the knee, edema, etc), he treats that too!! HTH, Mary > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:05:01 -0600 > From: Allison > Subject: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis > > Any other sewers/handcrafters out there have any advice for this > aging > baby boomer? Every time I hand sew I get terrible numbness and > tingling in my fingers, and pain in my forearms. And my right > thumb > joint is giving me trouble, with what I know is early > osteoarthritis. > My hands are beginning to look like my mother's did as she got > older. > > It's gotten bad enough that I sew by hand for about 15 minutes, > then > put it down for several hours, which means I'll have trouble > finishing > the project in time. (I'm doing heavy duty hand sewing - putting > in > bound buttonholes on a bodice.) > > Any recommendations on what helps this? Do I really need to see a > doctor who will probably just tell me to stop using my hands (yeah, > > right !!!!), or at least wear a wrist brace/wrap and take Tylenol? > I > already do these things. > > Thanks, guys! > > Allison P > ===== "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." - George W. Bush discussing the problems of the French economy with Tony Blair "Pictures of perfection, as you know, make me sick & wicked." ~ Jane Austen "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." ~ Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 15:30:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MKUhiF004393 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:30:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MKTWcP003889; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:29:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MKTMYS071595; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:29:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MKTGYS071502 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:29:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_28810+JAGae91741)/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA24306 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:29:11 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Charles II on TV tonight Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:29:10 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <405F122A.1000801@reddawn.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>This is a bit OT, but has anyone seen the 4-hour film >>on Charles II that's on US TV tonight? > > > My TiVo grabbed it and I'll watch it sometime this week. If there are any > playhouses, I'll be sure to let you know. There is one playhouse scene with Nell Gwynn and a court masque scene. What channel was that? Any chance it gets replayed? This was on the A&E (Arts and Entertainment)cable channel last night(Sunday). It is also available on DVD. Costumes were okay but the mid-late 17th century are not my particular area of interest. There was one scene showing Catherine of Braganza romping in the garden with her dogs in a man's velvet suit which I took exception to--is there any record of her ever wearing men's clothing, even in a court masque? It seems definately out of character for her. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 15:52:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MKqviF004771 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:52:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MKkHcP005734; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:46:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MKkDYS083737; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:46:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41115.mail.yahoo.com (web41115.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2MKkCYS083654 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:46:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anastasi5@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040322171843.7446.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.151.100.130] by web41115.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:18:43 PST Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:18:43 -0800 (PST) From: Stacey To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200403210001.i2L0136U037680@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] repetetive strains, etc. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I went to a conventional orthopedist for my wrist injury (from computer work), and just got a shot of cortizone that hurt more than the injury. What really worked was getting acupuncture. For the pain of a few pinpricks, a session every month saves me surgery. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 16:06:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2ML6DiF004812 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:06:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ML56cP007814; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:05:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ML54YS097344; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:05:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:4GVO4EsdFsIz9WyiNDBk4DoZdblhGvKV@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ML4xYS097287 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:05:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i2ML4xCa009702 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:04:59 -0500 Message-Id: <200403222104.i2ML4xCa009702@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:04:39 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] repetetive strains, etc. From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My preferred treatment for repetitive strain problems is massage therapy. I learned a few interesting things - it's not always the wrist that causes the problem. Numbness and tingling in the fingers can be caused by a problem anywhere from the spine to the wrist. That's why treatment in the shoulder or underarm might work for some. Another frequent culprit is the muscles just below the elbow. That's the area that causes problems for mail sorters and bricklayers. I had a bad experience with cortisone. Theoretically it takes at least three shots to cause bone damage, but I apparently got it from just one shot. People's bodies react differently, and the "normal" thing may not be good. I also recommend learning massage techniques. Even though it also works the hands, it helps to massage one's own muscles at times. Good luck in treating the problem! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 16:20:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MLKIiF004855 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:20:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MLIpcP009275; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:18:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MLInYS007070; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:18:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MLIfYS006924 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:18:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (pcp03026555pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.37.232.18]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i2MLH8j4016714 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:17:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040321184630.05e7ddd0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:16:43 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Re: Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis In-Reply-To: <200403211900.i2LJ0o6T007265@net.indra.com> References: <200403211900.i2LJ0o6T007265@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:18:06 -0800, Kat wrote: > > >This aging process isn't much fun, is it? > > > > Yeah, but it beats the alternative... > >I want *more* alternatives! Umm... physical activity? (Conditioning, etc.) OK, maybe I'm too young (43) to have experienced any of this in the worst of its horrific glory, but don't they say that (properly!) exercising helps minimize the limitations of many of these soft-tissue injuries/degenerations/whatever? Brenda, who *finally* joined a gym last month and managed to bounce back to *almost* college condition within a month webwarren@earthlink.net Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 17:28:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MMSJiF005181 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:28:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MMP2cP016210; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MMOtYS055055; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:24:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MMOoYS055008 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:24:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32241D183 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:24:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p337.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.83]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 905A5C596 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:24:47 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:25:00 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20040322155532.41084.qmail@web40404.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Problems X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OT, For some reason when I go to yahoo groups and sign on h-costume is not listed as one of my groups. I am still getting mail so I am confused. Could the moderator or person in charge check to make sure that there is an alfrdis listed and not alfrdis2000. De And again I wrestle with the great beast Yaphooey. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 17:36:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MMa9iF005199 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:36:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MMZBcP017335; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:35:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MMZ9YS062707; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:35:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.compassnet.com.au [203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2MMZ5YT062503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:35:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from glendar@compassnet.com.au) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.151]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id i2MMiLOV008451 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:44:21 +1100 Message-ID: <078301c4105e$1f8078e0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Problems Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:36:28 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi De, That's because the H-Costume mailing list itself is not a yahoo group. The details are at the bottom of each message - it's with www.indra.com If you go to the bottom of the page at http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume , you should be able to check the details yourself. Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 19:27:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N0RKiF005596 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:27:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N0QFcP026917; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:26:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N0Q9YS039031; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:26:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2N0Q6YS038931 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:26:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Oujws2CQKWUovKDPP1MuNng=">; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:25:39 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JRC8SQJ7; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:25:39 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:05:50 -0800 Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Re: Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Message-ID: <20040322.162506.1508.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-15,19-22 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Umm... physical activity? (Conditioning, etc.) OK, maybe I'm too > young > (43) to have experienced any of this in the worst of its horrific > glory, > but don't they say that (properly!) exercising helps minimize the > limitations of many of these soft-tissue > injuries/degenerations/whatever? > > > Brenda, who *finally* joined a gym last month and managed to bounce > back to > *almost* college condition within a month > webwarren@earthlink.net Congratulations, Brenda! :-) You're one of the lucky ones. RA patients can NOT do any sort of impact exercise unless it's very low or no impact. I hope to get into a Tai Chi class one of these days. The problem for us is that joint impacts and streses cause damage, distortion, can trigger flare-ups, and generally be Very Nasty. Movement is good--but it has to be the right kind of movement. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 22:02:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N32NiF006178 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:02:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N31LcP005770; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:01:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N31GYS013716; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:01:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N31EYS013693 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:01:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m119.in-tch.com [216.166.191.119]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i2N2cCM17052 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:38:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <405FA943.3080001@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:04:35 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] French ? tudor References: <20040322150052.34830.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040322150052.34830.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've always loved that portrait of "the" Eleanor, but it's a. not "Tudor" B. not "French" C. the embroidery runs the length of the arm and not around the circumference of the upper arm. The embroidery does have the same "look" to it, though, as far as construction methods go...reminds me of more subtle versions of the Helen Snackenburg (sp?) portrait "trim" of linear/interlaced designs done in gold work, couched on bands and then applied to the garment. I like them all! --sue, hopeless historical costume/clothing lover....sigh ;o) Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: > http://www.geocities.com/ailithmac/portraits.html > > Look at the Potrait of Eleonora in the pink/rose > dress. > > > > > --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > Hey, > haven't seen that one before. It looks pretty, > >>and simple. The >>band of trim or embroidery around the upper arms >>strikes me as pretty >>unusual, though. Has anyone seen others like that? >>--sue, currently planted firmly in the 14th c, but >>bookmarking it for >>future garb projects >> >>otsisto wrote: >> > http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/refo/ho_29.100.197.htm > >>>Anne de Pisseleu >>> >>>De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 22:04:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N34QiF006190 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:04:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N33TcP005897; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:03:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N33SYS014693; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:03:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N33QYS014673 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:03:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m119.in-tch.com [216.166.191.119]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i2N2eOM18094 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:40:25 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <405FA9C8.9060607@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:06:48 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fingerloop braiding: black band References: <20040322.072101.1576.1.Cley@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20040322.072101.1576.1.Cley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a friend who does finger-loop, but then she's much more coordinated about such things than I! I'm forever working out trades with her. Perhaps you could do the same with someone you know who does it? --sue, understanding physical limitations in one's craft all too well.... Cynthia J Ley wrote: > My problem is that my fingers wouldn't be able to stand the stress. I do > have a lucet though--may give that a try. > > Arlys > > On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:33:41 -0800 "Wanda Pease" > writes: > >>Every time I go to that page and look at those instructions I cringe. >> It is a good thing that I don't have to make my living manipulating > > things > >>like this with my hands. >> >>Regina >> >> >> >>>A finger-looped braid was one of the most common laces for closing >> >>women's >> >>>dresses in the 15th c., most likely of silk. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 22:24:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N3OViF006280 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:24:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N3NhcP007202; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:23:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N3NfYS024545; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:23:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N3NbYT024506 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:23:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2N3MwjY007792 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:22:58 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:22:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <405FADB8.60203@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:23:36 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fingerloop braiding: black band References: <20040322.072101.1576.1.Cley@juno.com> <405FA9C8.9060607@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <405FA9C8.9060607@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's always "twining" a cord, too, don't forget. That's when you twist string or thread one way, fold it in half, and let it twist up upon itself the other way. Basically like they make rope. It's probably not as strong as fingerloop or lucet, but in my experience, is strong enough for most uses. If you have a lot to do, you can attach your threads to a doorknob on one end, and to a little hook held in a power drill at the other, and spin away! You'll need a second pair of hands to accomplish a smooth fold in half motion, if the length before folding is longer than your spread arms. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent We belong to the "What Does This Button Do?" school of decision making. -- Kaja Foglio _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 22 23:35:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N4ZJiF006488 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:35:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N4YVcP011254; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:34:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N4YOYS057042; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:34:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N4YBYS056937 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:34:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.137.81]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C48556A889 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:34:09 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:35:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Re: Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Message-ID: <405F4E25.20306.2450538E@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <6.0.0.22.0.20040321184630.05e7ddd0@earthlink.net> References: <200403211900.i2LJ0o6T007265@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > >This aging process isn't much fun, is it? > > > > > > Yeah, but it beats the alternative... > > > >I want *more* alternatives! > > Umm... physical activity? (Conditioning, etc.) OK, maybe I'm too > young (43) to have experienced any of this in the worst of its > horrific glory, but don't they say that (properly!) exercising helps > minimize the limitations of many of these soft-tissue > injuries/degenerations/whatever? But that still isn't enough. > Brenda, who *finally* joined a gym last month and managed to bounce > back to *almost* college condition within a month > webwarren@earthlink.net Congratulations! (It just shows you that backpacking around NYC is good for you but not the same kind of exercies. I knew you could do it!) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 01:58:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N6wDiF006811 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 01:58:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N6vXcP019072; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:57:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N6vSYS015450; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:57:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f69.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N6vQYS015392 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:57:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from distantdesigns@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:40:06 -0800 Received: from 24.21.37.141 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:40:06 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.21.37.141] X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com] X-Sender: distantdesigns@hotmail.com From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] repetetive strains, etc. Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:40:06 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Mar 2004 06:40:06.0367 (UTC) FILETIME=[ADBA66F0:01C410A1] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I had a bad experience with cortisone. Theoretically it takes at >least >three shots to cause bone damage, but I apparently got it from just one >shot. >People's bodies react differently, and the "normal" thing may not be good. > Cortisone caused huge jumps in my blood sugars too. One shot threw my system off for two weeks. > I also recommend learning massage techniques. Even though it also >works >the hands, it helps to massage one's own muscles at times. I just bought a workbook on doing self-trigger point massage. Using a tennis ball in a sock to rub your back against a wall is one of the ideas for working areas I can't reach. There are also recommendations on hand positioning to save the rub-er's hands while working on the rub-ee. I found it looking for info on frozen shoulder. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! > _________________________________________________________________ Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 04:53:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N9rHiF000907 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 04:53:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N9qXcP024521; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 02:52:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N9qPYS081065; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 02:52:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2N9qMYS081040 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 02:52:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FE491D081 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 03:52:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p379.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.125]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7A682C401 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 03:52:20 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Problems Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 03:52:34 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <078301c4105e$1f8078e0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So are there files that can be accessed? I tried to see about accessing links and files but it would not let me. De a novice at understanding computers. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 05:15:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NAFOiF000955 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 05:15:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NAEgcP025391; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 03:14:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NAEeYS089315; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 03:14:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NAEbYS089291 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 03:14:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E6B31CF8C for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 04:14:37 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p379.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.125]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3C24EC419 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 04:14:36 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: Re: [h-cost] Re: Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 04:14:50 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <20040322.162506.1508.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have come to understand Pilates is a low impact. A study has found that dancing staves of ol' timers memory lose. Also, if you do something with one had learn to use the other helps with memory, and injuries caused by repetition. For your eyes it is recommend by many ophthalmologists to look up from your work every 20 or so minutes and focus on something at a distance. Plus do not read or do detailed work in a dim environment as this will strain the eyes. De -----Original Message----- RA patients can NOT do any sort of impact exercise unless it's very low or no impact. I hope to get into a Tai Chi class one of these days. The problem for us is that joint impacts and streses cause damage, distortion, can trigger flare-ups, and generally be Very Nasty. Movement is good--but it has to be the right kind of movement. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 08:24:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NDOGiF001776 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:24:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NDMgcP003922; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:22:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NDMYYS062692; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:22:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NDMIYS062302 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:22:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i2NDLZT06391.; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:21:35 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:21:34 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:21:04 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Charles II on TV tonight Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cindy Abel wrote: >Costumes were okay but the >mid-late 17th century are not my particular area of interest. There was >one scene showing Catherine of Braganza romping in the garden with >her dogs in a man's velvet suit which I took exception to--is there any >record of her ever >wearing men's clothing, even in a court masque? It seems definately out >of character for her. This must be the series with Rufus Sewell that we had in the UK a couple of months back. I thought the scene with the Queen in men's clothes a bit odd. In general the characterisation was convincing even though some historical details were inaccurate. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 09:14:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NEESiF002158 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:14:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NEDlcP007289; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:13:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NEDiYS085148; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:13:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NEDhYS085120 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:13:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C16B51D2A8 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:13:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p379.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.125]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8C538D3EC for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:13:41 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:13:56 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 4 pictures X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Found these will looking for something. Marguete de Baviere (Bavaria?) http://musenor.poleuniv-lille-npdc.fr/fr/html/images/imgcorpus/popup/L00773. jpg Bathsheba http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/3mature2/25nobath.jpg Have a look at the servant woman's hem. Almost looks like a ruffle. Johanna van Grudingen (ger./Flemish?)tudor http://musenor.poleuniv-lille-npdc.fr/fr/html/images/imgcorpus/popup/L00260. jpg The partlet has two colour embroidery. Magdalen http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/s/scorel/magdalen.jpg I have another url where the picture is more vibrant. This dress looks comfortable. My question is - Is it romanticized or what they would have worn? If I had the time I would love to see about making this dress (with a different embroidery design at the neck. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 09:23:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NEN7iF002226 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:23:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NEM0cP007910; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:22:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NELxYS089082; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:21:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NELuYS089017 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:21:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from NightsScarling@aol.com) Received: from NightsScarling@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.1ee.1c1bd006 (16097) for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:16:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m22.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.138]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (v98.19) with ESMTP id MAILINID111-3ee1406046c322f; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:16:35 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:16:35 -0500 From: NightsScarling@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <35085AF1.47AD1BBE.9C2FEC8C@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 12.40.127.126 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, I'm going to jump into this topic from a slightly different angle. Carpal tunnel and arthritis arn't necisarily caused by age, trust me. I'm only 25 and having surgery next month for it. Carpal tunnel is caused by the tendon at the base of your palm putting pressure on the nerve that runs between it. Many different things can cause this but the most common one, and the one you probably have, is caused by pinching and moving the wrist. When your hand sewing try your best to find a way of holding the needle and your hand where you get the least amount of creasing between the fleshy pads on your palm right above the wrist. Keeping your pinky extended is the best way that I have found to do this, but it takes some getting used to. Another thing that can make a significant difference is to get a wrist brace/splint that has the metal bar in it. Wear this while you sleep, it gives your carpal nerve a forced period of relief from the flexing and pinching. You would be surprised the kind of movement you do in your sleep that can further or prolong the irritation to the nerve. If those things don't significantly relieve the numbness and pain you can talk to your DR about a cortisone shot into the tendon. This hurts the first two days a lot but the relief is well worth it. Keep in mind the most important things. Nerve damage can become permanent, surgery is an option if the problem persists, and talk to the DR NOW before it becomes worse and you run out of treatment options. Kit _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 09:24:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NEOeiF002231 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:24:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NENQcP008041; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:23:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NENOYS089743; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:23:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NENKYT089706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:23:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2NEMcjY010147 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:22:38 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:22:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40604855.1080309@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:23:17 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 4 pictures References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Bathsheba > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/3mature2/25nobath.jpg > Have a look at the servant woman's hem. Almost looks like a ruffle. There are several from the 15th century that look like ruffles. The image of noble women as bricklayers from the Medieval Women calendar comes to mind. I think they are ruffles. Others think it's the effect of a different, thicker, fabric. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent We belong to the "What Does This Button Do?" school of decision making. -- Kaja Foglio _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 09:30:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NEU3iF002269 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:30:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NERdcP008319; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:27:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NERcYS091647; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:27:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NERaYS091637 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:27:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 389A81D462 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:27:36 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p379.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.125]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CE3DCD3EE for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:27:34 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 4 pictures Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:27:50 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO With Margruete and Johanna it seems the url is too long so it's not getting the jpg at the end. So you will probably have to type in manually if you wish to see the pictures. De -----Original Message----- Found these will looking for something. Marguete de Baviere (Bavaria?) http://musenor.poleuniv-lille-npdc.fr/fr/html/images/imgcorpus/popup/L00773. jpg Bathsheba http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/3mature2/25nobath.jpg Have a look at the servant woman's hem. Almost looks like a ruffle. Johanna van Grudingen (ger./Flemish?)tudor http://musenor.poleuniv-lille-npdc.fr/fr/html/images/imgcorpus/popup/L00260. jpg The partlet has two colour embroidery. Magdalen http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/s/scorel/magdalen.jpg I have another url where the picture is more vibrant. This dress looks comfortable. My question is - Is it romanticized or what they would have worn? If I had the time I would love to see about making this dress (with a different embroidery design at the neck. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 09:42:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NEgwiF002353 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:42:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NEgDcP009330; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:42:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NEgCYS098785; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:42:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NEg6YS098734 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:42:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2A7E1D3AD for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:42:05 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p379.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.125]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C252ED40E for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:42:04 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 4 pictures Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:42:20 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <40604855.1080309@thibault.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well in this case it's made of the same material. So maybe it is a ruffle. :) In most instances, if the fabric is heavier on the bottom then the folds form on the top lighter fabric. At least that is what I have observed. De We belong to the "What Does This Button Do?" school of decision making. -- Kaja Foglio _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 10:44:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NFifiF002648 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:44:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NFhtcP013919; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:43:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NFhfYS032261; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:43:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2NFheYS032190 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:43:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OsZNZXWsuQQV3B3i6ew5Pco=">; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:43:11 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JREVARXP; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:43:11 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:27:54 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] fingerloop braiding: black band Message-ID: <20040323.074259.1656.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-12 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's a thought. :-) Arlys On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:06:48 -0700 Sue Clemenger writes: > I have a friend who does finger-loop, but then she's much more > coordinated about such things than I! > I'm forever working out trades with her. Perhaps you could do the > same > with someone you know who does it? > --sue, understanding physical limitations in one's craft all too > well.... ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 10:46:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NFkFiF002657 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:46:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NFjYcP014096; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:45:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NFjUYS033450; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:45:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2NFhfYS032205 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:43:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OsZNZXWsuQQVayXnzk+ClRk=">; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:43:11 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JREVARX9; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:43:11 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:40:08 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 4 pictures Message-ID: <20040323.074259.1656.7.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-31 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Couldn't the same effect be achieved by pleating? Arlys On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:23:17 -0500 Cynthia Virtue writes: > > > Bathsheba > > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/3mature2/25nobath.jpg > > Have a look at the servant woman's hem. Almost looks like a ruffle. > > There are several from the 15th century that look like ruffles. The > image of noble women as bricklayers from the Medieval Women calendar > comes to mind. > > I think they are ruffles. Others think it's the effect of a > different, > thicker, fabric. > > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > We belong to the "What Does This Button Do?" school of decision > making. > -- Kaja Foglio > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 10:46:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NFkJiF002660 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:46:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NFjfcP014123; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:45:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NFjfYS033566; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:45:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2NFhfYS032203 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:43:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OsZNZXWsuQQViewXiA6yfME=">; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:43:11 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JREVARX3; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:43:11 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:33:56 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] repetetive strains, etc. Message-ID: <20040323.074259.1656.5.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-38 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Anyone tried acupressure? It's great for knots and suchlike. A friend of mine does Reiki, which is a terrific way of getting rid of blockages and making you feel much better all around. Arlys > I just bought a workbook on doing self-trigger point massage. Using > a > tennis ball in a sock to rub your back against a wall is one of the > ideas > for working areas I can't reach. There are also recommendations on > hand > positioning to save the rub-er's hands while working on the rub-ee. > I found > it looking for info on frozen shoulder. > > > Jennifer Sena > Distant Designs > http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi > > I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is > protected and > safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 11:36:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NGaciF002909 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:36:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NGa9cP018862; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:36:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NGa8YS068770; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:36:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NGa5YS068670 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:36:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B83F742643 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:51:12 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4060699D.8040302@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:45:17 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] French ? tudor References: <20040322150052.34830.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> <405FA943.3080001@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <405FA943.3080001@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: > I've always loved that portrait of "the" Eleanor, but it's > a. not "Tudor" > B. not "French" I'm curious as to why you say it's not 'Tudor', is it because it's not English? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 12:26:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NHQ9iF003122 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:26:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NGVGcP018372; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:31:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NGUqYS065062; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:30:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NGUEYS064654 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:30:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AFF342643 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:45:12 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40606834.6070804@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:39:16 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] repetetive strains, etc. References: <20040323.074259.1656.5.Cley@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20040323.074259.1656.5.Cley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia J Ley wrote: > Anyone tried acupressure? It's great for knots and suchlike. > I took a course in accupressure some ten or more years ago. It's been a lifesaver, and made me a lot of friends over the years. It's our number one method of dealing with headaches here at home. But it doesn't do much for my arthritis or the use-related hand and wrist injuries that I have to work around while sewing. I have prescription meds for the disease and the pain but I've found the best 'cure' is simply knowing when to stop, and giving the joints a rest when they need it. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 12:44:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NHi9iF003230 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:44:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NHfecP024750; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:41:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NHfaYS015390; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:41:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out014.verizon.net (out014pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NHfYYS015370 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:41:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pandoraf@verizon.net) Received: from outgoing.verizon.net ([192.168.1.6]) by out014.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040323172820.ICT5247.out014.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:28:20 -0600 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.12 (webedge20-101-197-20030912) From: To: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:28:20 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out014.verizon.net from [192.168.1.6] at Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:28:20 -0600 Message-Id: <20040323172820.ICT5247.out014.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: Subject: [h-cost] buttonhole - parallel or perpendicular? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO greetings all, does anyone know the history/logic behind the custom of using buttonholes parallel to the hemline (such as those on modern shirts) vs. buttonholes perpendicular to the hemline (as used on modern suit jackets, trousers/skirts)? having just tried on a shirt that is too small across the chest for me, I decided not to wear it after the buttons slid out of the buttonholes - but it occurred to me that perpendicular buttonholes would be more secure, which set me to wondering.... I look forward to the discussion! -- Pandora Fitzpatrick _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 12:57:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NHvhiF003278 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:57:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NHutcP026435; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:56:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NHupYS027586; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:56:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from thrednedlestrete.com (mail02.enterhost.com [69.93.13.234]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NHunYS027465 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:56:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:56:42 -0600 Message-Id: <200403231156.AA145686640@thrednedlestrete.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] buttonhole - parallel or perpendicular? X-Mailer: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040317, clamav-milter version 0.67l Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know about the buttonhole position offhand, but you could always stitch the buttonholes up a bit to make them smaller and more secure. Lisa Sinervo ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Reply-To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:28:20 -0600 >greetings all, > >does anyone know the history/logic behind the custom of using buttonholes parallel to the hemline (such as those on modern shirts) vs. buttonholes perpendicular to the hemline (as used on modern suit jackets, trousers/skirts)? > >having just tried on a shirt that is too small across the chest for me, I decided not to wear it after the buttons slid out of the buttonholes - but it occurred to me that perpendicular buttonholes would be more secure, which set me to wondering.... > >I look forward to the discussion! > >-- Pandora Fitzpatrick > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 13:37:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NIbniF003401 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:37:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NIb1cP001076; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NIavYS078867; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:36:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2NIarYS078806 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:36:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sarah@modehistorique.com) Received: from unknown (HELO modehistorique.com) (lithiate@sbcglobal.net@69.105.81.8 with plain) by smtp814.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2004 18:18:33 -0000 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:18:08 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] French ? tudor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Sarah Lorraine To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <4060699D.8040302@reddawn.net> Message-Id: <6F735D25-7CF6-11D8-A833-0003934DD4B0@modehistorique.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > http://www.geocities.com/ailithmac/elenora.jpg > I'm curious as to why you say it's not 'Tudor', is it because it's not > English? "Tudor" to my mind is a specific style that is really only found in England typical of the years of Henry VIII's reign through Mary I (of course there's plenty of variation within that time period as the fashion evolved, but for simplicity's sake just go with me on this). Stylistically, I guess you could include French fashion during those years as well, as England and France tended to feed off each other when it came to fashion (again there's a whole lot of variation between the regions, but the basic silhouette is similar). But Italian fashion is markedly different during this period, and the Elenora de Toledo outfit that's being discussed is neither French or English in flavor. Since I'm not an expert in Italian clothing of this era, I'll leave it to someone else to pinpoint this particular outfit's regional influence. :) Sarah http://www.modehistorique.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 14:22:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NJMniF003594 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:22:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NJLTcP006033; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:21:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NJLBYS010676; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:21:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NJL9YS010645 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:21:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.106] (pm7-106.eos.net [205.133.149.106]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NJL53o029652 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:21:06 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:20:56 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200403231901.i2NJ1FYT096292@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: "ruffle" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As to the "ruffle" on the bottom of the servant's gown: several writers have referred to it as a "frill," which I guess is the preferred British term for ruffle. I can't say whether they are considered definitive or not, but I've read it in several books. It looks like a ruffle to me. In fact, I was just planning on making one myself, for practical reasons. I'm making an undergown and the pieces of cloth I have aren't long enough for four floor-length pieces. So rather than piece it, I'm going to make it about mid-calf length and use different pieces of the same fabric to make a long, straight strip which I'll gather slightly and sew on the bottom. Normally I do gores on the side, too, but it's an undergown and doesn't need to be as full as the overgown. I'll just make the skirt part of the body pieces a little wider than usual. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 14:25:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NJPMiF003600 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:25:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NJNwcP006319; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:23:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NJNvYS012584; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:23:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay11-dav146.bay11.hotmail.com [64.4.39.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NJNsYS012483 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:23:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:06:35 -0800 Received: from 4.10.36.229 by bay11-dav146.bay11.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:06:34 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.10.36.229] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <35085AF1.47AD1BBE.9C2FEC8C@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:06:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:06:37 -0500 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Mar 2004 19:06:35.0072 (UTC) FILETIME=[F5E06C00:01C41109] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2NJPMiF003600 Status: RO Another thing that can make a significant difference is to get a wrist brace/splint that has the metal bar in it. Wear this while you sleep, it gives your carpal nerve a forced period of relief from the flexing and pinching. You would be surprised the kind of movement you do in your sleep that can further or prolong the irritation to the nerve. A wrist brace doesn't have to be one of the fancy medical ones. Sports stores sell bowling braces that work almost as well and are much cheaper. They come right and left handed and in sizes. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 14:30:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NJUIiF003619 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:30:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NJT5cP006779; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:29:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NJT4YS016357; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:29:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2NJSvYS016254 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:28:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 16423 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2004 19:28:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2004 19:28:56 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:28:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1054.24.4.69.40.1080070136.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <20040323172820.ICT5247.out014.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> References: <20040323172820.ICT5247.out014.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:28:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] buttonhole - parallel or perpendicular? From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > greetings all, > > does anyone know the history/logic behind the custom of using buttonholes > parallel to the hemline (such as those on modern shirts) vs. buttonholes > perpendicular to the hemline (as used on modern suit jackets, > trousers/skirts)? > > having just tried on a shirt that is too small across the chest for me, I > decided not to wear it after the buttons slid out of the buttonholes - but > it occurred to me that perpendicular buttonholes would be more secure, > which set me to wondering.... > > I look forward to the discussion! > > -- Pandora Fitzpatrick I don't know for sure, but I was told that for fast, economical, modern clothing production, buttonholes are done perpendicular to the ground. I am not sure why it is cheaper but that was what someone told me. If you tried on a shirt where they were done parallel to the ground and still had an issue with them coming out, I am stumped. I would think that buttons parallel to the ground would be the most secure. -- Diana Habra www.renaissancefabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 14:31:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NJVuiF003624 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:31:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NJUgcP006904; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:30:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NJUeYS017513; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:30:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NJUaYS017486 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:30:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-239-149.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.239.149]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NJUXbI000156 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:30:35 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040323111819.04c36c00@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:20:48 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis In-Reply-To: <35085AF1.47AD1BBE.9C2FEC8C@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Keep in mind the most important things. Nerve damage can become >permanent, surgery is an option if the problem persists, and talk to the >DR NOW before it becomes worse and you run out of treatment options. The trouble is that there's no surgery if you don't have actual carpal tunnel problems. Those of us with ordinary tendonitis, or arthritis, don't have that option. With no surgical relief, we have to do those other things instead, like resting just as it starts hurting, planning longer lead times for projects, to accommodate flare-ups, etc. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 14:44:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NJihiF003659 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:44:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NJeRcP007774; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:40:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NJeQYS024261; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:40:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NJeNYS024197 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:40:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B5rl3-000JZ9-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:40:18 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:38:52 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] 4 pictures References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is there any way of getting it without being a popup? I have a popup blocker and my machine won't open these pictures! Jean otsisto wrote >With Margruete and Johanna it seems the url is too long so it's not getting >the jpg at the end. So you will probably have to type in manually if you >wish to see the pictures. > >De > >-----Original Message----- >Found these will looking for something. > >Marguete de Baviere (Bavaria?) >http://musenor.poleuniv-lille-npdc.fr/fr/html/images/imgcorpus/popup/L00773. >jpg > >Bathsheba >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/3mature2/25nobath.jpg >Have a look at the servant woman's hem. Almost looks like a ruffle. > >Johanna van Grudingen (ger./Flemish?)tudor >http://musenor.poleuniv-lille-npdc.fr/fr/html/images/imgcorpus/popup/L00260. >jpg >The partlet has two colour embroidery. > >Magdalen >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/s/scorel/magdalen.jpg >I have another url where the picture is more vibrant. This dress looks >comfortable. My question is - Is it romanticized or what they would have >worn? >If I had the time I would love to see about making this dress (with a >different embroidery design at the neck. > >De > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 14:47:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NJlCiF003664 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:47:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NJkPcP008325; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:46:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NJkNYS028416; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:46:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NJkKYS028359 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:46:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B5rqs-000JyV-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:46:18 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:44:43 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] buttonhole - parallel or perpendicular? References: <20040323172820.ICT5247.out014.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> <1054.24.4.69.40.1080070136.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <1054.24.4.69.40.1080070136.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When the buttonhole is parallel to the edge, strain will tend to stretch it open, which both makes the buttons come undone and deforms the fabric. Buttonholes perpendicular to the edge avoid both those problems. I don't know what the advantage is of having parallel buttonholes. Maybe it's something to do with industrial sewing machines. But if they are cheaper, I can see the logic of using them on shirts, which are washed after one or two wearings so the buttonholes can get back into shape, but not on jackets where the stretch would be permanent. I think on waistbands the amount of strain dictates that perpendicular buttonholes are essential. Jean Diana Habra wrote > >> greetings all, >> >> does anyone know the history/logic behind the custom of using buttonholes >> parallel to the hemline (such as those on modern shirts) vs. buttonholes >> perpendicular to the hemline (as used on modern suit jackets, >> trousers/skirts)? >> >> having just tried on a shirt that is too small across the chest for me, I >> decided not to wear it after the buttons slid out of the buttonholes - but >> it occurred to me that perpendicular buttonholes would be more secure, >> which set me to wondering.... >> >> I look forward to the discussion! >> >> -- Pandora Fitzpatrick > >I don't know for sure, but I was told that for fast, economical, modern >clothing production, buttonholes are done perpendicular to the ground. I >am not sure why it is cheaper but that was what someone told me. > >If you tried on a shirt where they were done parallel to the ground and >still had an issue with them coming out, I am stumped. I would think that >buttons parallel to the ground would be the most secure. > -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 15:03:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NK3LiF003716 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:03:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NK2AcP009723; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:02:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NK27YS039325; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:02:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NK24YT039291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:02:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2NKMTo8032457 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:22:31 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040323115609.020ec318@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:02:01 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] buttonhole - parallel or perpendicular? In-Reply-To: References: <1054.24.4.69.40.1080070136.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <20040323172820.ICT5247.out014.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> <1054.24.4.69.40.1080070136.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I convert buttonholes that are perpendicular to the ground (parallel to the opening) to parallel to the ground (perpendicular to the opening). I also make them as tight as possible while still being usable. Oh, and sometimes I reinforce the end of the buttonhole that takes the strain. The only reason that I wouldn't do this is if it causes a visible authenticity problem Katie At 07:44 PM 3/23/2004 +0000, you wrote: >When the buttonhole is parallel to the edge, strain will tend to stretch >it open, which both makes the buttons come undone and deforms the fabric. >Buttonholes perpendicular to the edge avoid both those problems. > >I don't know what the advantage is of having parallel buttonholes. Maybe >it's something to do with industrial sewing machines. But if they are >cheaper, I can see the logic of using them on shirts, which are washed >after one or two wearings so the buttonholes can get back into shape, but >not on jackets where the stretch would be permanent. I think on >waistbands the amount of strain dictates that perpendicular buttonholes >are essential. > >Jean _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 15:29:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NKTjiF003897 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:29:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NKSgcP012089; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:28:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NKScYS058172; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:28:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from netkauai-1.dns-netkauai.com (circlesoflight.com [66.206.11.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NKSaYT058140 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:28:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisa@darklord.com) Received: from adsl-69-105-124-16.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net ([69.105.124.16] helo=darklord.com) by netkauai-1.dns-netkauai.com with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1B5sVt-0004Te-9K for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:28:19 -1000 Message-ID: <40609DF0.3010004@darklord.com> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:28:32 -0800 From: Lisa VandenBerghe User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - netkauai-1.dns-netkauai.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - darklord.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] buttonholes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >does anyone know the history/logic behind the custom of using buttonholes parallel to the hemline (such as those on modern shirts) vs. buttonholes perpendicular to the hemline (as used on modern suit jackets, trousers/skirts)? > My understanding is that buttonholes which will be taking stress are placed perpendicular to the opening. If they are parallel, the designer probably intended a looser fit. -Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 15:41:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NKfEiF003934 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:41:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NKbWcP013098; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:37:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NKbVYS064417; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:37:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.228]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NKbUYS064404 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:37:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.21.217.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.217] helo=HELENPINTO) by mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1B5sCP-0003wn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:08:33 -0800 Message-ID: <025901c41112$9c712200$d9159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 4 pictures Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:08:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9efcceec7cecb18fa43f5c2110c3b6bcb1a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jean wrote: > Is there any way of getting it without being a popup? I have a popup > blocker and my machine won't open these pictures! Check your pop-up blocker. Earthlink, for example, allows you to give site-by-site permission for pop-ups. Only sites you enable will give you the pop-ups, ie, like friend's with pictures. See what your blocker offers. You can also try double-clicking, sometimes twice. This will usually over-ride the pop-up blocker, without making changes to the allow list (at least on Earthlink). Try it, -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 16:11:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NLBWiF004078 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:11:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NLAVcP016519; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:10:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NLARYS088485; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:10:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NLAOYS088444 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:10:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F13A1D0AB for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:10:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p192.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.194]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 33615D4B0 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:10:23 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] buttonholes Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:10:39 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <40609DF0.3010004@darklord.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have heard that reasoning and that modern reason for ready to wear is because of the sewing machine. De -----Original Message----- My understanding is that buttonholes which will be taking stress are placed perpendicular to the opening. If they are parallel, the designer probably intended a looser fit. -Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 16:43:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NLh4iF004247 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:43:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NLescP019566; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:40:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NLerYS010369; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:40:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NLenYS010328 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:40:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1202C1D08B for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:40:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p192.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.194]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 01E5BD4AF for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:40:48 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:41:03 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <20040323.074259.1656.7.Cley@juno.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bathsheba was: 4 pictures X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, pleats could have been used to ease the fabric in. OMG, is that a poodle? So intent with the garment I had not realized there was a dog in the picture :) The Bathrobe is interesting. De -----Original Message----- Couldn't the same effect be achieved by pleating? Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 16:43:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NLh8iF004252 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:43:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NLdbcP019431; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:39:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NLdXYS009376; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:39:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NLdWYS009309 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:39:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.46.49f7463a (4459) for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:34:13 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <46.49f7463a.2d920755@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:34:13 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: "ruffle" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/23/2004 2:22:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: > As to the "ruffle" on the bottom of the servant's gown: several writers > have > referred to it as a "frill," which I guess is the preferred British term for > ruffle. It also looks sheer. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 16:59:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NLx8iF004289 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:59:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NLwEcP021299; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:58:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NLw9YS022590; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:58:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NLw5YS022556 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:58:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8E341D542 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:58:05 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p192.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.194]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 994BED4B7 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:58:04 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 4 pictures Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:58:20 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <20040323.074259.1656.7.Cley@juno.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My using the popups is because the url is short. Johanna http://musenor.poleuniv-lille-npdc.fr/php/corpus/index2.php?ref=0051&id=5745 725533f0685630e19&lang=fr Marguerite (you will have to scroll down for her picture) http://musenor.poleuniv-lille-npdc.fr/php/corpus/index2.php?ref=0069&id=5745 725533f06285630e19&lang=fr _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 17:42:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NMgriF004728 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 17:42:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NMace3025106; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:38:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NMIaYS036801; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:18:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.228]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NMIYYS036783 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:18:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.21.217.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.217] helo=HELENPINTO) by mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1B5uED-0007Tr-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:18:34 -0800 Message-ID: <000c01c41124$c5754bb0$d9159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bathsheba was: 4 pictures Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 17:18:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef153bf1ca738d0fc9f57814776be7cf8e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO De wrote: OMG, is that a > poodle? No, but definitely an ancestor- it's probably a small rough-coated spaniel or retriever, many of which had become popular companion animals during the Renaissance. Poodles, at best, go back maybe 400 years, which is still more than 100 years after the Bathsheba picture (1485), and are believed to have been developed from those types of dogs (large and small). -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 23 18:30:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NNUViF005115 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:30:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NNSlcP000377; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:28:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NNSgYS084168; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:28:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2NNSdYS084129 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:28:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from bridgett.cornell.edu (syr-24-58-121-78.twcny.rr.com [24.58.121.78]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2NNSbbu003187 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:28:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040323181017.00bb4550@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:29:32 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Mari Stewart In-Reply-To: <000c01c41124$c5754bb0$d9159b04@HELENPINTO> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-PMX-Version: 4.5.0.92886, Antispam-Core: 4.0.4.92622, Antispam-Data: 2004.3.23.95069 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: poodles X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey there Helen - I'd be interested to know your resources for the information below. I'm not so willing to call it "not a poodle" I can document poodles - as you stated - to the 1500's. This includes references to Gessner, Conrad 1553. Historie of foure-footed beastes : describing the true and lively figure of every beast, with a discourse of their severall names, conditions, kindes, vertues ... / collected out of all the volumes of Conradus Gesner, and other writers to this present day, 1607 reprint. Markham, Gervase. Hungers Prevention: Or the Whole Art of Fowling by Water & Land. London, 1621. Cockaine, Sir Thomas. A Short Treatise of Hunting, 1591, by Sir Thomas Cockaine, with and Introduction by W.R. Halliday. 5. Shakespeare Association, London. Bruegel, Pieter. Netherlandish Proverbs. 1559. ---. The Sermon of St. John the Baptist. 1566. However there are also: VanOs, Gouda. The Author Dines with Understanding. 1486, Leiden. Weyden, Rogier Van der. The Sacramet of the Final Unction - in the Triptych of the Seven Sacraments. 1445. Phoebus, Gaston. The Art of the Hunt. written mid 1300's. And I also have a picture from a mid-1200s illumination... which of course I can't find right now... showing the King of France with his Caniche (aka Pudel / shough dogge / water dogge / water spaniel (these are tricky) / Pudelhund / Barbet) It sounds like you are as avid a historian for this breed as I am. Do you speak Middle German by chance? I have a lead on some fowling and coy records that might date the pudle as a working dog back even further. >De wrote: > OMG, is that a > > poodle? > >No, but definitely an ancestor- it's probably a small rough-coated spaniel >or retriever, many of which had become popular companion animals during the >Renaissance. Poodles, at best, go back maybe 400 years, which is still more >than 100 years after the Bathsheba picture (1485), and are believed to have >been developed from those types of dogs (large and small). > -Helen/Aidan > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 24 02:16:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2O7GEiF024325 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:16:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2O7E7cP026204; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:14:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2O7E1Tc001798; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:14:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2O7E0Tc001788 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:14:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D54761D48D for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:13:59 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p434.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.180]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BFBAED3EC for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:13:58 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:14:15 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] discovery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Today I discovered two things. One was that McCall's has three new costume patterns out "In the Medieval Style" most are princess line. Two, hershey kisses just came out with caramel centers and oh my are they goooood. :) De Calories? What calories? Chocolate don't have no calories. :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 24 02:47:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2O7lIiF005842 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:47:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2O7kXcP027677; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:46:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2O7kVTc014158; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:46:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net (invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.254]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2O7kTTc014135 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:46:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.21.119.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.119] helo=HELENPINTO) by invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1B62vb-00027x-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 23:35:56 -0800 Message-ID: <000001c41172$a14cded0$77159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040323181017.00bb4550@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: poodles Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:31:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9efc391769ca17f7257d6c95c400ded83ec350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My source is nothing more exciting than the thumbnail in the encyclopedia: your list trumps mine fourteen ways to Sunday. But do the pre-16 c. sources actually call the dog a poodle? While I come from a long line of dog people, we lean toward terriers- Scotties and giant Schnauzers. Dogs with opinions. And Dobies. Thanks for the offer of the research, but I've got too many irons in the fire already and I can't afford to get sucked into another one. It would be too easy. Besides, my German is a one-semester course in Engineering School to learn to read abstracts, only abstracts. BTW, have you seen this list of poodles in art: http://www.poodlehistory.org/PZZGPV.HTM Mostly late, but interesting nonetheless. -Helen/Aidan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mari Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 6:29 PM Subject: [h-cost] re: poodles > > Hey there Helen - I'd be interested to know your resources for the > information below. I'm not so willing to call it "not a poodle" > > I can document poodles - as you stated - to the 1500's. This includes > references to > > Gessner, Conrad 1553. Historie of foure-footed beastes : describing the > true and lively figure of every beast, with a discourse of their severall > names, conditions, kindes, vertues ... / collected out of all the volumes > of Conradus Gesner, and other writers to this present day, 1607 reprint. > > Markham, Gervase. Hungers Prevention: Or the Whole Art of Fowling by Water > & Land. London, 1621. > > Cockaine, Sir Thomas. A Short Treatise of Hunting, 1591, by Sir Thomas > Cockaine, with and Introduction by W.R. Halliday. 5. Shakespeare > Association, London. > > Bruegel, Pieter. Netherlandish Proverbs. 1559. > > ---. The Sermon of St. John the Baptist. 1566. > > However there are also: > > VanOs, Gouda. The Author Dines with Understanding. 1486, Leiden. > > Weyden, Rogier Van der. The Sacramet of the Final Unction - in the Triptych > of the Seven Sacraments. 1445. > > Phoebus, Gaston. The Art of the Hunt. written mid 1300's. > > And I also have a picture from a mid-1200s illumination... which of course > I can't find right now... showing the King of France with his > Caniche (aka Pudel / shough dogge / water dogge / water spaniel (these are > tricky) / Pudelhund / Barbet) > > It sounds like you are as avid a historian for this breed as I am. Do you > speak Middle German by chance? I have a lead on some fowling and coy > records that might date the pudle as a working dog back even further. > > > > >De wrote: > > OMG, is that a > > > poodle? > > > >No, but definitely an ancestor- it's probably a small rough-coated spaniel > >or retriever, many of which had become popular companion animals during the > >Renaissance. Poodles, at best, go back maybe 400 years, which is still more > >than 100 years after the Bathsheba picture (1485), and are believed to have > >been developed from those types of dogs (large and small). > > -Helen/Aidan > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 24 06:47:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2OBlBiF007175 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:47:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OBhxcP007564; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 04:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OBhtTc097255; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 04:43:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OBhqTd097235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 04:43:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2OCIgWm009215 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:18:46 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A472343B00BA; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:43:46 -0500 Received: from itsloaner3.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.128]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:43:45 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <00b701c41196$036da360$805183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <35085AF1.47AD1BBE.9C2FEC8C@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:49:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And besides to 'brace' to wear at night, in one of the 'old folks' catalogues, there is a palm splint designed to keep the digits opened and not fisted. haven't tried this one Yet, but it is on my list. Bought a foam knee pad pillow and it is great for resting the pressure of my knees rubbing together. Another ' alternative'? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis > Hey, I'm going to jump into this topic from a slightly different angle. Carpal tunnel and arthritis arn't necisarily caused by age, trust me. I'm only 25 and having surgery next month for it. > > Carpal tunnel is caused by the tendon at the base of your palm putting pressure on the nerve that runs between it. Many different things can cause this but the most common one, and the one you probably have, is caused by pinching and moving the wrist. > > When your hand sewing try your best to find a way of holding the needle and your hand where you get the least amount of creasing between the fleshy pads on your palm right above the wrist. Keeping your pinky extended is the best way that I have found to do this, but it takes some getting used to. > > Another thing that can make a significant difference is to get a wrist brace/splint that has the metal bar in it. Wear this while you sleep, it gives your carpal nerve a forced period of relief from the flexing and pinching. You would be surprised the kind of movement you do in your sleep that can further or prolong the irritation to the nerve. > > If those things don't significantly relieve the numbness and pain you can talk to your DR about a cortisone shot into the tendon. This hurts the first two days a lot but the relief is well worth it. > > Keep in mind the most important things. Nerve damage can become permanent, surgery is an option if the problem persists, and talk to the DR NOW before it becomes worse and you run out of treatment options. > > Kit > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 24 06:51:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2OBpaiF007206 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:51:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OBnecP007731; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 04:49:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OBneTc099246; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 04:49:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OBnbTd099227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 04:49:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i2OCOVWm014617 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:24:31 -0500 Received: from cleveland [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A5D0345B00BA; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:49:36 -0500 Received: from itsloaner3.washjeff.edu ([209.131.81.128]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:49:35 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-ID: <00cb01c41196$d3df2640$805183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040323.074259.1656.5.Cley@juno.com> <40606834.6070804@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] repetetive strains, etc. Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:54:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I was in great distress several years ago, the 'trainer' at the college gave me a whole list of ways to relieve my affected areas of continuing stress. Changing positions and doing other things for a while was the underlying key. The first move he suggested was to arrange my work space so that I Had to get up to do things for a project, instead of having everything at hand. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] repetetive strains, etc. > Cynthia J Ley wrote: > > > Anyone tried acupressure? It's great for knots and suchlike. > > > > I took a course in accupressure some ten or more years ago. It's been a > lifesaver, and made me a lot of friends over the years. It's our number > one method of dealing with headaches here at home. > > But it doesn't do much for my arthritis or the use-related hand and > wrist injuries that I have to work around while sewing. I have > prescription meds for the disease and the pain but I've found the best > 'cure' is simply knowing when to stop, and giving the joints a rest when > they need it. > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 24 09:13:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2OEDgiF007786 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:13:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OECtcP013121; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:12:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OECrTc055272; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:12:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2OECnTc055225 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:12:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040324141246.5340.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:12:46 GMT Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:12:46 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] discovery To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I guess we need to do some pattern buying. I can no longer have hershey's kisses......sigh. --- otsisto wrote: > Today I discovered two things. One was that McCall's > has three new costume > patterns out "In the Medieval Style" most are > princess line. > Two, hershey kisses just came out with caramel > centers and oh my are they > goooood. :) > > De > Calories? What calories? Chocolate don't have no > calories. :) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 24 11:47:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2OGlciF008527 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:47:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OGhfcP025545; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:43:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OGhUTc049896; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:43:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OGhRTd049830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:43:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2OGd3o8029908 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:39:04 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040324084111.00b6e880@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:43:23 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: poodles In-Reply-To: <000001c41172$a14cded0$77159b04@HELENPINTO> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040323181017.00bb4550@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If a medieval housewife had embroidered an image of said dogue onto the skirt of her kirtle, would that be the world's first Poodle Skirt? Katie At 02:31 AM 3/24/2004 -0500, you wrote: >My source is nothing more exciting than the thumbnail in the encyclopedia: >your list trumps mine fourteen ways to Sunday. But do the pre-16 c. sources >actually call the dog a poodle? >While I come from a long line of dog people, we lean toward terriers- >Scotties and giant Schnauzers. Dogs with opinions. And Dobies. >Thanks for the offer of the research, but I've got too many irons in the >fire already and I can't afford to get sucked into another one. It would be >too easy. Besides, my German is a one-semester course in Engineering School >to learn to read abstracts, only abstracts. >BTW, have you seen this list of poodles in art: >http://www.poodlehistory.org/PZZGPV.HTM Mostly late, but interesting >nonetheless. > -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 24 13:47:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2OIl2iF009168 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:47:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OIiPcP008707; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:44:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OIi7Tc041780; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:44:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OIi2Tc041712 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:44:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.11.1 (Revision 1.6) /8.11.1) with SMTP id i2OIhsQ19338 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:43:54 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "h-costume@indra. com" Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:43:54 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Hans Holbein the Younger X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For 16th century costume fans : Hans Holbein the Younger: Painter at the Court of Henry VIII is now available. Amazon.com has it for $31.50(they've just shipped my copy although calling up this book says "Not yet released) and bn.com has it available at $36.00. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 24 14:25:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2OJPtiF009548 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:25:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OJOMcP012392; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:24:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OJOJTc070315; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:24:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20211.mail.yahoo.com (web20211.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2OJOGTc070283 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:24:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040324191736.95399.qmail@web20211.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20211.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:17:36 PST Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:17:36 -0800 (PST) From: Angela Kessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carpal tunnel and/or arthritis To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <40E293D7-7AB2-11D8-99C6-000393D446D6@aristotle.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There have been several good suggestions for dealing with this issue, but I'd just like to add one more: finger splints. Wrist splints, as has been pointed out, are readily available from a variety of sources (including your local drugstore), but if the problem is actually in the joints in the hand, they won't help. There is one company I know of that makes them: http://www.silverringsplint.com/index.html Apparently they are quite effective for both tendonitis and arthritis. The splints are medical devices, so you can't order them directly. As it was explained to me, occupational therapists are most involved with the hands, whereas physical therapists and sports medicine people tend to work with larger muscles/joints. So you go to your local occupational therapist and ask them whether Silver Ring Splints might be effective for you. -Angela Disclaimer: My connection to the company is that my thumb MCP splints have allowed me to play my harp nearly every day for the past several weeks (prepping for a performance) without pain, when a year ago after Christmas I couldn't even pick up a glass of water because my thumbs hurt so bad. (I'm in my late 20s, and my problem is caused by loose joints.) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 24 16:22:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2OLMMiF010689 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:22:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OLL7cP023222; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:21:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OLL2Tc053778; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:21:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OLL0Tc053749 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:21:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D341A1D0AC for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:20:59 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p227.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.216.229]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id AE917C5EF for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:20:58 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] re: poodles Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:21:17 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040324084111.00b6e880@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And if she had a seme' of poodles on her heraldic sideless, she'd have oodles of poodles.:) (This is more low keyed then the origins of the French poodle) De -----Original Message----- If a medieval housewife had embroidered an image of said dogue onto the skirt of her kirtle, would that be the world's first Poodle Skirt? Katie At 02:31 AM 3/24/2004 -0500, you wrote: >My source is nothing more exciting than the thumbnail in the encyclopedia: >your list trumps mine fourteen ways to Sunday. But do the pre-16 c. sources >actually call the dog a poodle? >While I come from a long line of dog people, we lean toward terriers- >Scotties and giant Schnauzers. Dogs with opinions. And Dobies. >Thanks for the offer of the research, but I've got too many irons in the >fire already and I can't afford to get sucked into another one. It would be >too easy. Besides, my German is a one-semester course in Engineering School >to learn to read abstracts, only abstracts. >BTW, have you seen this list of poodles in art: >http://www.poodlehistory.org/PZZGPV.HTM Mostly late, but interesting >nonetheless. > -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 24 16:24:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2OLOMiF010706 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:24:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OLLfcP023374; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:21:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OLLfTc054238; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:21:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OLL1Tc053768 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:21:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A34B1D117 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:21:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p227.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.216.229]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2928AC5EF for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:21:00 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hans Holbein the Younger Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:21:18 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh no thank you, I'm already married. :) De -----Original Message----- For 16th century costume fans : Hans Holbein the Younger: Painter at the Court of Henry VIII is now available. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 24 16:48:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2OLmiiF010867 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:48:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OLkgcP025709; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:46:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OLkaTc072234; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:46:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2OLkWTc072146 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:46:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 843858; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:46:26 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:46:27 -0800 From: Lynn Downward To: h costume , "h needlework ansteorra.org" Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tambour and millinery classes in Northern California X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Shameless plug for two great classes: Hi and sorry for the cross-posting. I wanted to let you all know that there will be a two-day tambour embroidery class given in Martinez, CA (at the tip of S.F. Bay) on April 17 and 24. This class is given by Karen Kurtz, a long-time professional dressmaker and teacher in the San Jose/Los Gatos area. There is also a two-day buckram-based millinery class given at the same studio on April 3 and 10. Joycelyn Falsken will teach this class; she has her own historic costuming business and teaches at S.F. State. I've taken the millinery class and learned a great deal from Joycelyn. I'll bring my Elizabethan tall hat to show what can be done in this wonderful class. I've never taken a class from Karen, but I've known her for several years and am truly impressed by her work. I've already signed up for this class. You can contact Joycelyn at jflasken@sfsu.edu for the flyer for either of these two classes. I didn't send them to the lists as I know neither list can receive attachments. Please mention the class in your subject line. Thanks, LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 24 21:37:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2P2b9iF012083 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:37:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2P2YqcP019351; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:34:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2P2YiTc042124; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:34:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav61.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.196]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2P2YfTc042039 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:34:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:17:21 -0800 Received: from 66.130.164.16 by bay9-dav61.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:17:21 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.164.16] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" , Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:18:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Mar 2004 02:17:21.0418 (UTC) FILETIME=[4DE996A0:01C4120F] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fw: [SCA-IDDML] For fibre enthusiasts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This was sent to my local SCA group list. If you haven't seen it yet, take a look. It's fascinating! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lena Breijer" To: "SCA Shire of Dragon Dormant Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 10:17 AM Subject: [SCA-IDDML] For fibre enthusiasts > To all those who love fiber, including Freya > > www.wormspit.com/index.htm > > Everything you always wanted to know about silk and > some things you would rather not. Not for lunch time > viewing. > > Lady Magdalena > > > ===== > http://www.geocities.com/lenabreijer to see my art work http://www.avonemporium.com great place to have > something to eat, or stay a few days on the bay of Fundy > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > _______________________________________________ > Sca.dragondormant mailing list > Sca.dragondormant@wolfstar.ca > http://www.wolfstar.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sca.dragondormant > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 24 22:42:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2P3gniF012420 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:42:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2P3ftcP022949; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 20:41:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2P3fqTc072739; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 20:41:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out012.verizon.net (out012pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2P3foTc072722 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 20:41:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp ([4.35.48.174]) by out012.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040325034150.NFJA18295.out012.verizon.net@brandyscomp> for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:41:50 -0600 Message-ID: <027601c4121b$1c8b6190$e62f2104@brandyscomp> From: "Brandy Deming" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: [SCA-IDDML] For fibre enthusiasts Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:41:49 -0800 Organization: Better Times for Small Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out012.verizon.net from [4.35.48.174] at Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:41:49 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you for sharing, we found it most interesting. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" ; Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 6:18 PM Subject: [h-cost] Fw: [SCA-IDDML] For fibre enthusiasts > This was sent to my local SCA group list. If you haven't seen it yet, take a > look. It's fascinating! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lena Breijer" > To: "SCA Shire of Dragon Dormant Mailing List" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 10:17 AM > Subject: [SCA-IDDML] For fibre enthusiasts > > > > To all those who love fiber, including Freya > > > > www.wormspit.com/index.htm > > > > Everything you always wanted to know about silk and > > some things you would rather not. Not for lunch time > > viewing. > > > > Lady Magdalena > > > > > > ===== > > http://www.geocities.com/lenabreijer to see my art work > http://www.avonemporium.com great place to have > > something to eat, or stay a few days on the bay of Fundy > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > > _______________________________________________ > > Sca.dragondormant mailing list > > Sca.dragondormant@wolfstar.ca > > http://www.wolfstar.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sca.dragondormant > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 24 22:53:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2P3rOiF012483 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:53:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2P3pTcP023541; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 20:51:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2P3pSTc076947; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 20:51:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pd4mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2P3pQTc076928 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 20:51:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jenpotts@shaw.ca) Received: from pd3mr7so.prod.shaw.ca (pd3mr7so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.23]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HV4007H02B8F3@l-daemon> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:45:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml8so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.152]) by pd3mr7so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0HV4002HD2BIKFI0@pd3mr7so.prod.shaw.ca> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:45:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from jenputer (h24-71-153-235.ok.shawcable.net [24.71.153.235]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HV40070V2B33F@l-daemon> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:45:08 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:45:08 -0800 From: Jennifer Potts To: northern@antir.sca.org, h-costume@net.indra.com, antir-costumers@antir.sca.org Message-id: <0HV40070X2B73F@l-daemon> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-index: AcQSEy8wzAK1uoV2TVC+5M++DZJMLw== X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Searching for a Supplier.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I am from the Interior of BC and am looking for a supplier of Appleton or Paternayan Needlework wools. I would prefer someone in Canada who does mail order (in BC or at the Coast would make my year!). I have a very ambitious project I have almost completely passed the planning stages with, and am very looking forward to the practical work. If anyone could help, please contact me off-list if you prefer. Thank you for your time. L. Giacinta Cocchetti jenpotts@shaw.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 00:14:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2P5EpiF012825 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:14:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2P5AGcP027239; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:10:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2P5ADTc011506; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:10:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2P5A9Td011456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:10:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2P5DIxT010754 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:13:18 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i2P5DIis010752 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:13:18 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:13:17 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403250013.17387.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Wonderful site for vintage costume images X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://thefrock.com This site actually sells historic costume (from the 1860s through the 1950s or so. But not just ordinary historic costume. These items include couture and one-of-a-kind historic items. No, I can't afford the price tags on them, but it's wonderful eye candy. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 01:34:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2P6YliF013068 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 01:34:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2P6XwcP001830; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:33:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2P6XpTc045304; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:33:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simq3-srv.bellnexxia.net (simq3.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.153]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2P6XmTc045235 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:33:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.70.4.7]) by simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040325045901.HBOH21884.simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:59:01 -0500 Message-ID: <005901c41226$4661faa0$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <0HV40070X2B73F@l-daemon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for a Supplier.... Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:01:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Greetings, > > > > I am from the Interior of BC and am looking for a supplier of Appleton or > Paternayan Needlework wools. I would prefer someone in Canada who does mail > order (in BC or at the Coast would make my year!). I have a very ambitious > project I have almost completely passed the planning stages with, and am > very looking forward to the practical work. If anyone could help, please > contact me off-list if you prefer. > > > > Thank you for your time. > > > > L. Giacinta Cocchetti > > jenpotts@shaw.ca > Hi! I just received this Monday my first order of Paternayan and DMC Medicis wool from a shop based in Ottawa. They were most helpful and prompt, and if you do not have a credit card, will take money orders. All I did was email them the colours and quantity, and they sent me back the total cost plus shipping. At the speed at which I received my order, it must have gone in the mail the same day my money order arrived at their shop! The only problem I have with their website is if you have no idea what the colour numbers are of the product you want to order, you will have no clue how to get what you want. What I ended up doing was finding a web-page that shows the colours as well as the numbers, writing down what I wanted, then ordering from the Canadian company. :-) So far I am a happy customer! Here is the page: http://www.cross-stitch.ca/index.html Here is the site I use to help pick my colours: http://www.independenceneedlepoint.com/ptpaternayanmain.htm There was only one glitch in this system, the colour you see on the monitor is not necessarily the same as what you get. :-) What I had thought was going to be a nice spice red, was actually a dark pumpkin orange. It will still be used, never fear, but now I know for next time. Hope this helps, and please pass on any other Canadian suppliers as you find them, I'm always looking as well. Sheridan (Sudbury, ON) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 07:16:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PCGtiF007805 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:16:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PCFocP012855; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 05:15:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PCFgTc067370; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 05:15:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PCFcTc067351 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 05:15:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claudine_on_the_net@yahoo.com) Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.126]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B6BsS-0003F6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:09:16 -0800 Received: from h-68-164-84-196.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.164.84.196] helo=yahoo.com) by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B6BsR-0001jF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:09:15 -0800 Message-ID: <4061C0CA.10109@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:09:30 -0800 From: Claudine User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bathsheba and skirt ruffle [was Re: 4 pictures] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know if this illumination from the Getty is from the same time frame, but it also shows a ruffle at the edge of an underskirt: "The Temperate and Intemperate" Master of the Dresden Prayer Book Flemish, Bruges, 1475 - 1480 http://www.getty.edu/art/collections/objects/oz112310.html woman in the lower right corner This one does, too, but it's really hard to see; I have a postcard of just the illumination, and it's much easier to see there: "Gerard and Bertha Find Sustenance at a Hermitage" Loyset Liédet Flemish, Bruges, 1469 - 1472 http://www.getty.edu/art/collections/objects/oz4790.html I also find the gigantic pins holding Bertha's sleeves to be interesting. I assume they weren't actually that big, but are painted that big so that the viewer knows they're there. Claudine otsisto wrote: > Bathsheba > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/3mature2/25nobath.jpg > Have a look at the servant woman's hem. Almost looks like a ruffle. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 08:37:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PDbaiF008214 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:37:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PDaMcP015904; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 06:36:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PDaKTc098270; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 06:36:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback-mx1.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@fallback-mx1.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.95]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PDaGTc098241 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 06:36:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from athurman@cybergal.com) Received: from mail7.atl.registeredsite.com (mail7.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.81]) by fallback-mx1.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2PDYwcZ021824 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:34:58 -0500 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) by mail7.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2PDYw8n014923 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:34:58 -0500 Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.42.71]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:34:56 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:34:51 -0500 Message-ID: <005b01c4126d$f46b6270$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza's hair? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can anyone speak to the accuracy of Catherine of Braganza's extraordinarily wide hairdo when she is first introduced to Charles? I thought it looked completely invented, but then I found this picture of Maria Teresa of Spain from the same time period, and she has something similar: http://www.artchive.com/artchive/V/velazquez/two_watches.jpg.html C. of B. was Portuguese; was this a Hispanic fashion of the times? If so, surely this is a wig supported by wire; I don't think they had Aqua Net then! Any idea how this style was created/maintained? Not only am I curious for myself, but my (non-costumer) sister is wigging (pun intended ;) ) over the seeming strangeness of the style. Thanks in advance, Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 09:33:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PEXIiF008402 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:33:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PETtcP019442; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:29:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PETrTc022692; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:29:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PETpTc022516 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:29:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i2PETWT13509.; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:29:32 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:29:31 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:28:56 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza's hair? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> athurman@cybergal.com 25/03/2004 13:34:51 >>>wrote: >Can anyone speak to the accuracy of Catherine of Braganza's >extraordinarily wide hairdo when she is first introduced to Charles? I >thought it looked completely invented, but then I found this picture of >Maria Teresa of Spain from the same time period, and she has >something similar. Yes, the Hispanic countries were well known at this time for their extremely formal and idiosyncratic court fashions. They kept the farthingale long after other countries had discontinued its use. For pictures of Queen Catherine when she first arrived in England and later, see http://www.npg.org.uk/live/search/person.asp?LinkID=mp00804 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 10:34:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PFYFiF008721 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:34:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PFXWcP024119; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:33:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PFXPTc059231; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:33:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PFXJTc059125 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:33:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ff1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.241]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B02E65EE055 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:33:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004b01c4127e$85b18740$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005b01c4126d$f46b6270$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza's hair? Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:33:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I am so unfortunate, that i cant se that film on my tv set here in Denmark. I would have loved to se it. This hairstyle was wide spread troughout Europe, included Denmark. I have sen several portraits with this style. I dont think any wire is used, but some hairpads. The Academy of Historical Hairstyles, also has tryed this hairstyle with succes. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.Thurman" To: Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:34 PM Subject: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza's hair? > Can anyone speak to the accuracy of Catherine of Braganza's extraordinarily > wide hairdo when she is first introduced to Charles? I thought it looked > completely invented, but then I found this picture of Maria Teresa of Spain > from the same time period, and she has something similar: > > http://www.artchive.com/artchive/V/velazquez/two_watches.jpg.html > > C. of B. was Portuguese; was this a Hispanic fashion of the times? If so, > surely this is a wig supported by wire; I don't think they had Aqua Net > then! Any idea how this style was created/maintained? > > Not only am I curious for myself, but my (non-costumer) sister is wigging > (pun intended ;) ) over the seeming strangeness of the style. > > Thanks in advance, > > Allison T. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 11:22:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PGMiiF009320 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:22:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PGKdcP028377; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:20:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PGKZTc092064; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:20:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PGKTTc091952 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:20:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from archaeosoft1 (c-24-16-231-97.client.comcast.net[24.16.231.97]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20040325161227013000v2sfe>; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:12:27 +0000 Message-ID: <004001c41283$f71c4fa0$61e71018@archaeosoft1> From: "Gia" To: "Historical Costume" References: <0HV40070X2B73F@l-daemon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for a Supplier.... Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:12:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings! My absolute favorite for the wools you are looking for is in Issaquah, Washington, USA. Denice at Thread Needle Street. Her Url is: www.Threadneedlestreet.com She carries both and if she doesn't have it, she'll order it. I hope this helps! Gia/Emer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Potts" To: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 6:45 PM Subject: [h-cost] Searching for a Supplier.... > Greetings, > > > > I am from the Interior of BC and am looking for a supplier of Appleton or > Paternayan Needlework wools. I would prefer someone in Canada who does mail > order (in BC or at the Coast would make my year!). I have a very ambitious > project I have almost completely passed the planning stages with, and am > very looking forward to the practical work. If anyone could help, please > contact me off-list if you prefer. > > > > Thank you for your time. > > > > L. Giacinta Cocchetti > > jenpotts@shaw.ca > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 11:27:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PGRBiF009348 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:27:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PGQhcP028924; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:26:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PGQdTc096651; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:26:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PGQcTc096624 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:26:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.48]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B6V6c-00047x-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 05:41:10 -0800 Received: from 209-165-40-069.jps.net ([209.165.40.69] helo=pavilion) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B6V6b-0003ud-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 05:41:09 -0800 Message-ID: <000d01c41270$855cb8e0$4528a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 05:53:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Thanks for all the Vintage Apron Responses X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They arrived just before Joanns 5 for 5 dollars pattern sale which had some of the patterns mentioned! Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 12:05:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PH5DiF009544 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:05:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PH3ocP002682; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PH3jTc024138; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:03:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out010.verizon.net (out010pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PH3hTc024109 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:03:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pandoraf@verizon.net) Received: from outgoing.verizon.net ([192.168.1.5]) by out010.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040325165119.IYLD1910.out010.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:51:19 -0600 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.12 (webedge20-101-197-20030912) From: To: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:51:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out010.verizon.net from [192.168.1.5] at Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:51:19 -0600 Message-Id: <20040325165119.IYLD1910.out010.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] yarn & fabric swatches X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think it's always a good idea to get swatches before ordering online, especially if matching a specific color is super-important regarding matching colors to dye-lot numbers etc vs. relying on computer monitor renditions of colors -- most vendors (online or otherwise) of Appleton & other wools will send a swatch card -- some are a small # of colors for free or cheap, or sometimes you can get the entire rainbow for some $ (can't think of a specific example off the top of my head, but someone else mentioned www.ThreadneedleStreet.com in Issaquah, WA, which is where I've been in person) same goes for some fabric vendors -- like www.fabricclub.com and www.silkconnection.com and www.hemptraders.com (off the top of my head). and of course, regular old brick-and-mortar fabric stores will cut swatches for you for free (this is useful also if you or the store don't know the fabric content -- you can get a swatch then go home and do burn tests or whatever else to figure out what that bargain-table brocade is really made of) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 12:14:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PHEpiF009594 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:14:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PHCZcP003570; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:12:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PHCYTc030658; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:12:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PHCWTc030582 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:12:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 846760 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:12:27 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:12:25 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] yarn & fabric swatches From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040325165119.IYLD1910.out010.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 3/25/04 8:51 AM, "pandoraf@verizon.net" wrote: > I think it's always a good idea to get swatches before ordering online, > especially if matching a specific color is super-important > > regarding matching colors to dye-lot numbers etc vs. relying on computer > monitor renditions of colors -- > > most vendors (online or otherwise) of Appleton & other wools will send a > swatch card -- some are a small # of colors for free or cheap, or sometimes > you can get the entire rainbow for some $ (can't think of a specific example > off the top of my head, but someone else mentioned www.ThreadneedleStreet.com > in Issaquah, WA, which is where I've been in person) > > same goes for some fabric vendors -- like www.fabricclub.com and > www.silkconnection.com and www.hemptraders.com (off the top of my head). > > and of course, regular old brick-and-mortar fabric stores will cut swatches > for you for free (this is useful also if you or the store don't know the > fabric content -- you can get a swatch then go home and do burn tests or > whatever else to figure out what that bargain-table brocade is really made of) > > Yes to all of the above. And, if you ask, many b-a-m stores will have a burn kit behind the counter and will test for you. I've found that to be true in several stores when I wasn't quite certain about the fabric content. They were willing to test the fabric so that we both would know what it was. LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 12:29:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PHT8iF009719 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:29:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PHQYcP005119; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:26:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PHQUTc041244; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:26:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mx.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PHQRTc041161 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:26:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.43.2989465e (4468) for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:21:07 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <43.2989465e.2d946f03@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:21:07 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bathsheba and skirt ruffle [was Re: 4 pictures] To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6024 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/25/2004 7:19:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, claudine_on_the_net@yahoo.com writes: > http://www.getty.edu/art/collections/objects/oz112310.html > Her ruffle looks sheer too. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 12:49:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PHneiF009791 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:49:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PHmdcP007169; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:48:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PHmOTc057996; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:48:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PHmKTc057949 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:48:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.11.1 (Revision 1.6) /8.11.1) with SMTP id i2PHmEO06840 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:48:15 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza's hair? Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:48:14 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <004b01c4127e$85b18740$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne: Check the amazon.uk website. This may be available on DVD for ordering. I know amazon.com and the A&E TV network store have a U.S./Canadian DVD player compatible version available. And yes, Charles II did reportedly say that "they have brought me a bat to marry" when he first sighted Catherine in her native hairstyle and costume. But unlike Henry VIII, he never did divorce Catherine or considered making any one of his illegitimate children his heir. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:33 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza's hair? Hi, I am so unfortunate, that i cant se that film on my tv set here in Denmark. I would have loved to se it. This hairstyle was wide spread troughout Europe, included Denmark. I have sen several portraits with this style. I dont think any wire is used, but some hairpads. The Academy of Historical Hairstyles, also has tryed this hairstyle with succes. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.Thurman" To: Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:34 PM Subject: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza's hair? > Can anyone speak to the accuracy of Catherine of Braganza's extraordinarily > wide hairdo when she is first introduced to Charles? I thought it looked > completely invented, but then I found this picture of Maria Teresa of Spain > from the same time period, and she has something similar: > > http://www.artchive.com/artchive/V/velazquez/two_watches.jpg.html > > C. of B. was Portuguese; was this a Hispanic fashion of the times? If so, > surely this is a wig supported by wire; I don't think they had Aqua Net > then! Any idea how this style was created/maintained? > > Not only am I curious for myself, but my (non-costumer) sister is wigging > (pun intended ;) ) over the seeming strangeness of the style. > > Thanks in advance, > > Allison T. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 13:08:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PI8eiF009880 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:08:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PI6RcP009317; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:06:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PI6NTc071721; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:06:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PI6LTc071638 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:06:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from skskaw@comcast.net) Received: from mom1 (c-24-21-122-88.client.comcast.net[24.21.122.88]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004032518061501500eqt4je>; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:06:15 +0000 Message-ID: <001401c41293$df8a6ce0$6501a8c0@mom1> From: "Sidne Kneeland" To: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:06:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Off topic: men's jacket info X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2PI8eiF009880 Status: RO Greetings list, I need to make some men's jackets for "movie usher" people. These would be made in large size to fit whatever helpers are there (its a school thing). Problem is, I don't know what to call that style? What is a short jacket that overlaps called? Bolero? It does overlap in a double breasted button sort of thing doesn't it? Any help appreciated. S. Kneeland _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 14:26:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PJQLiF014828 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:26:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PJP3cP017451; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:25:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PJOvTc028348; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:24:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PJOsTc028266 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:24:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ff1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.241]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B9B8D47FE57 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:24:48 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001a01c4129e$e7a80ee0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza's hair? Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:25:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Cindy, Thanks a lot for your informations. I sertanly will order it then. It has ben two long time since last they made a costume drama. I am travelling to Bath next week to attend the Bath Ball. And i shall go to the costume museum to se the exhibition they have about Jane Austen Fashion and Films. I long to se this film already! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:48 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza's hair? > Bjarne: Check the amazon.uk website. This may be available on DVD for > ordering. I know amazon.com and the A&E TV network store have a > U.S./Canadian DVD player compatible version available. > > And yes, Charles II did reportedly say that "they have brought me a bat to > marry" when he first sighted Catherine in her native hairstyle and costume. > > But unlike Henry VIII, he never did divorce Catherine or considered making > any one of his illegitimate children his heir. > > Cindy Abel > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:33 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza's > hair? > > > Hi, > I am so unfortunate, that i cant se that film on my tv set here in Denmark. > I would have loved to se it. > This hairstyle was wide spread troughout Europe, included Denmark. I have > sen several portraits with this style. I dont think any wire is used, but > some hairpads. > The Academy of Historical Hairstyles, also has tryed this hairstyle with > succes. > > Bjarne > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "A.Thurman" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:34 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza's hair? > > > > Can anyone speak to the accuracy of Catherine of Braganza's > extraordinarily > > wide hairdo when she is first introduced to Charles? I thought it looked > > completely invented, but then I found this picture of Maria Teresa of > Spain > > from the same time period, and she has something similar: > > > > http://www.artchive.com/artchive/V/velazquez/two_watches.jpg.html > > > > C. of B. was Portuguese; was this a Hispanic fashion of the times? If so, > > surely this is a wig supported by wire; I don't think they had Aqua Net > > then! Any idea how this style was created/maintained? > > > > Not only am I curious for myself, but my (non-costumer) sister is wigging > > (pun intended ;) ) over the seeming strangeness of the style. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Allison T. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 14:31:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PJV3iF014867 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:31:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PJSdcP017794; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:28:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PJSZTc030776; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:28:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PJSWTc030734 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:28:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ff1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.241]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9F47F47FE47 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:28:30 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002501c4129f$6beeab00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:28:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] event in Denmark X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2PJV3iF014867 Status: RO Hello, I was so fortunate to finally find some danish people who reenacts. At a castle in Jutland called Gammel Estrup there is going to be a 1700 market on 26-27th of june. There shall be different craftsmen there. I have ben asked to sit there in my costume and either make embroidery or lace. This is going to be such fun. http://www.gammelestrup.dk/ Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 15:17:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PKHwiF015050 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:17:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PKFicP022716; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:15:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PKFdTc063277; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:15:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PKFZTc063227 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:15:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by fallback02.mail.atl.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2PJKCe05093 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:20:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0278.dialsprint.net ([63.186.145.24]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B6aOg-0007Eu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:20:11 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:20:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off topic: men's jacket info From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001401c41293$df8a6ce0$6501a8c0@mom1> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You might take a look at FolkWear 133, Belgian Military Chef's Jacket, if you don't mind buttonholes. I've used it for a bellhop costume. Of course I also once made a bellhop costume by cropping and darting a red blazer, replacing the buttons with shiny brass ones, and edging the lapel and cuffs in black bias tape... Maybe that kind of thing would work for you? Best wishes, Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer on 3/25/04 1:06 PM, Sidne Kneeland at skskaw@comcast.net wrote: > Greetings list, > > I need to make some men's jackets for "movie usher" people. These would be > made in large size to fit whatever helpers are there (its a school thing). > Problem is, I don't know what to call that style? What is a short jacket that > overlaps called? Bolero? It does overlap in a double breasted button sort of > thing doesn't it? > > Any help appreciated. > > S. Kneeland > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 15:27:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PKRjiF015088 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:27:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PKQccP023796; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:26:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PKQZTc071039; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:26:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PKQNTc070803 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:26:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B6bQf-000HuJ-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:26:17 +0000 Message-ID: <6JGsyECBB0YAJwFL@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:25:37 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: poodles References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040324084111.00b6e880@mail.katiesorchids.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For some reason poodle skirts came up in conversation the other day, and I discovered my husband had not realised that to be a poodle skirt it has to have a picture of a poodle on it! I have absolutely no idea where he thought the term came from. My mind is still boggling to think about it. Jean otsisto wrote >And if she had a seme' of poodles on her heraldic sideless, she'd have >oodles of poodles.:) > >(This is more low keyed then the origins of the French poodle) > >De >-----Original Message----- >If a medieval housewife had embroidered an image of said dogue onto the >skirt of her kirtle, would that be the world's first Poodle Skirt? > > > >Katie > >At 02:31 AM 3/24/2004 -0500, you wrote: >>My source is nothing more exciting than the thumbnail in the encyclopedia: >>your list trumps mine fourteen ways to Sunday. But do the pre-16 c. >sources >>actually call the dog a poodle? >>While I come from a long line of dog people, we lean toward terriers- >>Scotties and giant Schnauzers. Dogs with opinions. And Dobies. >>Thanks for the offer of the research, but I've got too many irons in the >>fire already and I can't afford to get sucked into another one. It would >be >>too easy. Besides, my German is a one-semester course in Engineering >School >>to learn to read abstracts, only abstracts. >>BTW, have you seen this list of poodles in art: >>http://www.poodlehistory.org/PZZGPV.HTM Mostly late, but interesting >>nonetheless. >> -Helen/Aidan > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 15:42:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PKgIiF015168 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:42:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PKaCcP024830; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:36:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PKaBTc078097; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:36:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PKa7Tc078046 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:36:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.11.1 (Revision 1.6) /8.11.1) with SMTP id i2PKZxL01840 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:35:59 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza's hair? Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:35:59 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <001a01c4129e$e7a80ee0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne: I'm green with envy that you will be able to see the Jane Austen costume exibition in Bath. Could you let us know if there are pamplettes, brochures, or even a book connected with this exibit that those of us unable to go, especially in the U.S. Thanks Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 15:54:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PKsOiF015227 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:54:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PKotcP028178; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:50:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PKomTc089445; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:50:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PKojTc089410 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:50:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-239-149.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.239.149]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PKndS6025077 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:49:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040325124910.05af2a90@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:49:45 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hans Holbein the Younger In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO He's probably too old for you anyway... >Oh no thank you, I'm already married. :) >For 16th century costume fans : Hans Holbein the Younger: Painter at the >Court of Henry VIII is now available. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 16:40:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PLehiF015497 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:40:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PLdicP003018; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:39:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PLdeTc023908; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:39:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PLdbTc023877 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:39:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be86.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.134]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DDC275EE01B for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:39:36 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001301c412b1$b4bb4660$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza's hair? Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:39:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Cindy, Off cause i shall do that, and let you know when i return again. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:35 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza's hair? > > Bjarne: > > I'm green with envy that you will be able to see the Jane Austen costume > exibition in Bath. Could you let us know if there are pamplettes, brochures, > or even a book connected with this exibit that those of us unable to go, > especially in the U.S. > > Thanks > > Cindy Abel > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 16:44:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PLiKiF015521 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:44:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PLgCcP003193; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:42:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PLgCTc025652; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:42:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14001.mail.yahoo.com (web14001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2PLg8Tc025631 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:42:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040325214206.42178.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:42:06 GMT Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:42:06 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] event in Denmark To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002501c4129f$6beeab00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO 26-27th of June, are these special dates historically? I'd really like to know how this turns out. Catalina --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hello, > I was so fortunate to finally find some danish > people who reenacts. > At a castle in Jutland called Gammel Estrup there is > going to be a 1700 market on 26-27th of june. There > shall be different craftsmen there. I have ben asked > to sit there in my costume and either make > embroidery or lace. > This is going to be such fun. > http://www.gammelestrup.dk/ > > Bjarne > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 16:48:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PLmMiF015548 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:48:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PLjScP003488; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:45:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PLjPTc027868; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:45:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PLjMTc027834 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:45:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be86.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.134]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 077C826284E for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:45:21 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002701c412b2$83456ba0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:45:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] silk knit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2PLmMiF015548 Status: RO I browsed on http://www.silkconnection.com/ And noticed their natural colour silk knit. I wonder if i could use this for making silk stockings for mens wear, 18th century? Natural colour, would that not be almost white, i dont mean shiny white, but dont you think it could be used for mens silk stockings? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 16:49:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PLnEiF015551 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:49:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PLmLcP003745; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:48:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PLmKTc029817; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:48:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PLmGTc029789 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:48:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.62]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B6c68-0007GU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:09:08 -0800 Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B6c62-0007Do-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:09:02 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza'shair? Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:09:02 -0700 Message-ID: <000901c412ad$66612060$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wonder if this style is related to the extant (German?) headdress with all the spangles? (I cannot remember where I saw it) The shape is very similar... Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 17:08:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PM8TiF015664 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:08:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PM5ocP005187; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:05:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PM5mTc042083; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:05:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.136.30.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PM5iTc042045 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:05:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cbucheger@paclp.com) Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com (SMTPD32-8.05) id A7AC403BE; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:05:32 -0600 Received: From PACws22 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1080252331431; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:05:31 -0600 Message-ID: <005301c412b3$7ee688e0$1d64a8c0@algx> From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000901c412ad$66612060$6a01a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza'shair? Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:52:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kohler, now that you mention it cyn > I wonder if this style is related to the extant (German?) headdress with all > the spangles? (I cannot remember where I saw it) The shape is very > similar... > > Sg > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 17:10:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PMA3iF015676 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:10:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PM96cP005521; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:09:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PM94Tc044428; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:09:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PM8vTc044334 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:08:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be86.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.134]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 440875EE063 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:08:54 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000e01c412b5$ce019fd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:09:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] my dream costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2PMA3iF015676 Status: RO Hi, I told you before about the picture that made me want to become a costume designer! The world is very strange. This picture is at the castle that i am going to join the market with this summer. So it is almost like a ring wich is finally closed. I had this picture send for me lately by a girl who also is going to be at the 1700 market. It was the first time i ever saw the picture in colour. The picture she sended me was very small, but i have enlarged it and therefore it is not very sharp. You can se it here: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/gammelestrup.htm I think it would be very nice if i finally made this dress. When i first set my eyes on it, i desided i wanted to learn how to make such a dress. And in many ways this picture has ben a part of my life. Is it not strange? I have got this idea, that i want to make some enquirys here and there, if there is a girl, not two big in size wich can have a narrow bodice and want to have such a dress. Then i want to make it for free, only materials has to be payed to me. Then i also want to borrow this dress for exhibition at this castle for 1 month before i send it to the owner. I think it could be very nice, if i could make this dress and exhibit it under this picture! I dont think it would be difficult to find material that matches this dress. Very pale grey is it taffeta? patterned. I browsed silk connection and they have some fabric wich looks very similar. It is silk jacquard, but would that be as stiff as the material in the picture? Any suggestions any of you! Please let me hear your oppinion. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 17:14:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PME7iF015723 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:14:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PMA8cP005616; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:10:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PMA6Tc045217; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:10:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PMA2Tc045173 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:10:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be86.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.134]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3AA8347FE78 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:10:00 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001401c412b5$f5f10350$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000901c412ad$66612060$6a01a8c0@SG01> <005301c412b3$7ee688e0$1d64a8c0@algx> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza'shair? Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:10:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Saragrace, I remember that picture two. But this is from a time before Christ isnt it? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:52 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza'shair? > Kohler, now that you mention it > > cyn > > > I wonder if this style is related to the extant (German?) headdress with > all > > the spangles? (I cannot remember where I saw it) The shape is very > > similar... > > > > Sg > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 17:17:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PMHbiF015740 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:17:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PMGUcP006166; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:16:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PMGOTc049650; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:16:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:0tR0D5gkDlfYdc5zubrJkhSg4YPmdOMB@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PMGMTc049604 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:16:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i2PMGKHc003576 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:16:20 -0500 Message-Id: <200403252216.i2PMGKHc003576@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:16:00 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk knit From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Bjarne, It depends on how picky you are! I don't see a photo of a swatch or how many stitches per inch. Their silk knit may be finer than what I see in antique stockings. Jersey usually means it's a plain knit, which is good. Many modern knits are 1/1 ribs, which don't read as ribs but the fabric looks the same on one side as the other. It's not what was used for 18thC stockings. 18thC stocking fabric was shiny, and I don't know if this fabric is or not. It is probably a lot stretchier than 18thC knits. That's what I've found when looking at silk knits. You can't bleach silk (it destroys the fabric), but there are color removers that will work. Natural may be white enough. If you're going for an era where color stockings are fashionable (early to mid-century), you should be able to dye it. Kannik's Korner has a pattern that can be used with knit fabric to make stockings. The pattern has low gussets. You can embroider to get the look of higher gussets (some knits had a faux gusset in the design) or alter the pattern for higher gussets. Embellishment will depend on the era. Plating is where a second thread was knit on top of the main color to make the design. Just enough to show the second color, not enough to make it a raised area. You can fake this with duplicate embroidery. Plating went out of style about the middle of the century. Some stockings have metallic embroidery. Often a motif was stitched on vellum, stitched onto the stocking, and more embroidery was added. Others have multicolor silk embroidery. Chevening may have developed in 1783, a technique of taking a horizontal stitch across 1 to 5 knit stitches to make a pattern. Sometimes it's the same color as the stocking and resembles purl stitches. If you embroider them, we want to see pictures! -Carol > I browsed on http://www.silkconnection.com/ > And noticed their natural colour silk knit. I wonder if i could use this for making silk stockings for mens wear, 18th century? > Natural colour, would that not be almost white, i dont mean shiny white, but dont you think it could be used for mens silk stockings? > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 17:22:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PMMniF015767 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:22:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PMLncP006600; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:21:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PMLlTc053164; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:21:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PMLjTc053140 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:21:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-239-149.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.239.149]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PMLhfH008866 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:21:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040325141852.053fdd50@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:20:04 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wonderful site for vintage costume images In-Reply-To: <200403250013.17387.cathy@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >http://thefrock.com > >This site actually sells historic costume (from the 1860s through the >1950s or >so. But not just ordinary historic costume. These items include couture and >one-of-a-kind historic items. No, I can't afford the price tags on them, but >it's wonderful eye candy. :-) These people often stick a skirt with a bodice from a different decade, so be careful of what you're looking at vs. what it's described as. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 18:12:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PNCSiF016154 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:12:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PNAScP010806; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:10:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PNAOTc087034; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:10:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PNAMTc086936 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:10:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.85.7e05f90 (2168) for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:10:14 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <85.7e05f90.2d94c0d5@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:10:13 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wonderful site for vintage costume images To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6024 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 3/25/2004 5:22:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, kayta@frys.com writes: > These people often stick a skirt with a bodice from a different decade, so > be careful of what you're looking at vs. what it's described as. > Really? Well, that explains the 1890s bodice with the 1880s skirt I saw there. I wrote them to inform them that they had a definitely 1870s gown labeled 1860s. Will they care? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 18:21:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PNLhiF016222 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:21:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PNKvcP011809; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:20:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PNKtTc094199; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:20:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:FIBEVO2X6w7tRFpK9Zj3tmnaVhaSQTRF@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PNKnTc094138 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:20:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i2PNKmHc024483 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:20:48 -0500 Message-Id: <200403252320.i2PNKmHc024483@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:20:27 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk knit From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One other very important thing - if you do decide to embellish the stockings, remember that it goes on BOTH sides of the ankle. I have not yet seen a pair of original 18thC stockings that are clocked on only one side. -Carol > > I browsed on http://www.silkconnection.com/ > > And noticed their natural colour silk knit. I wonder if i could use this for making silk stockings for mens wear, 18th century? > > Natural colour, would that not be almost white, i dont mean shiny white, but dont you think it could be used for mens silk stockings? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 19:36:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2Q0aHiF016933 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:36:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2Q0QKcP016623; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:26:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2Q0QBTc032882; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:26:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2Q0Q6Tc032854 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:26:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2Q0ANE12337 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:10:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B6evW-0004Zc-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:10:22 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] my dream costume Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:10:22 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01c412c6$bb9dc4c0$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <000e01c412b5$ce019fd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am sure you will find a taker on your offer. I wonder if the silk you speak of is like one of mine. It is very soft and drapy, but could be ironed to some interfacing to stiffen it up. Or alternatively you could line it with organza to give it body... Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 20:23:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2Q1NZiF017324 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:23:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2Q1LbcP019853; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:21:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2Q1LYTc060766; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:21:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2Q1LTTd060725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:21:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2Q1OdxT013987 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:24:39 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i2Q1Odaa013985 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:24:39 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wonderful site for vintage costume images Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:24:38 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <4.3.1.2.20040325141852.053fdd50@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040325141852.053fdd50@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403252024.38943.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 25 March 2004 05:20 pm, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >http://thefrock.com > > > >This site actually sells historic costume (from the 1860s through the > >1950s or > >so. But not just ordinary historic costume. These items include couture > > and one-of-a-kind historic items. No, I can't afford the price tags on > > them, but it's wonderful eye candy. :-) > > These people often stick a skirt with a bodice from a different decade, so > be careful of what you're looking at vs. what it's described as. Thanks for the warning. THough the outerwear (a blue velvet cape described as 1860s; a red leather riding coat described as 1880s) was actually more interesting than the dresses shown. On the other hand, several of the more expensive Victorian dresses, if they measure as described, would fit me; hence my comment. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 25 21:34:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2Q2YiiF017769 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:34:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2Q2UvcP023553; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:30:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2Q2UmTc096264; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:30:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2Q2UkTc096249 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:30:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.119]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2Q28dE18837 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:08:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B6gnN-0003UY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:10:05 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] silk knit Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:08:39 -0700 Message-ID: <000201c412d7$41ac8370$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <002701c412b2$83456ba0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have used this silk to make doll stockings. I am sure it will make mens stockings well, but they will probably have to be tied up. (I am not sure what they were doing then-garters still? I don't know how much wear and tear it would take...it isn't that stretchy. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 26 00:32:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2Q5WtiF018343 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 00:32:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2Q5UpcP003229; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:30:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2Q5UhTc085213; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:30:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2Q5UfTc085190 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:30:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 625E81D533 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:30:41 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p252.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.254]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3B75BD4AF for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:30:40 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bathsheba and skirt ruffle [was Re: 4 pictures] Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:30:43 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <43.2989465e.2d946f03@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think its bath water or shadow and not sheer fabric. De -----Original Message----- > http://www.getty.edu/art/collections/objects/oz112310.html > Her ruffle looks sheer too. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 26 00:36:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2Q5a3iF018354 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 00:36:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2Q5WrcP003369; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:32:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2Q5WqTc086113; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:32:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2Q5WpTc086104 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:32:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A51E81D4F5 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:32:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p252.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.254]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 871ADD4B0 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:32:50 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:32:53 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <43.2989465e.2d946f03@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sheer ruffle was: Bathsheba and skirt ruffle X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry I thought we were still talking about the Bathsheba picture. I wish there was a bigger Getty picture. It looks like a sheer ruffle over the lower section of the dress but it could be dirt on the hem. De -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of AlbertCat@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 11:21 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bathsheba and skirt ruffle [was Re: 4 pictures] In a message dated 3/25/2004 7:19:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, claudine_on_the_net@yahoo.com writes: > http://www.getty.edu/art/collections/objects/oz112310.html > Her ruffle looks sheer too. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 26 01:23:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2Q6NHiF018459 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 01:23:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2Q6K6cP005108; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:20:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2Q6K3Tc005031; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:20:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41013.mail.yahoo.com (web41013.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2Q6K0Tc004956 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:20:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tania_gr17@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040326061314.4403.qmail@web41013.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.79.63.35] by web41013.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:13:14 PST Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:13:14 -0800 (PST) From: Tania Gruning Subject: Re: [h-cost] my dream costume To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000e01c412b5$ce019fd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Bjarne. If not for the fact that i am on health related leave from work and have absolutely no money, then i would love to. I even live in Denmark, and you have met me, so you could do fittings if needed. I do admire all your work, and i wish i could afford to go to see the market. Tania Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Hi, I told you before about the picture that made me want to become a costume designer! The world is very strange. This picture is at the castle that i am going to join the market with this summer. So it is almost like a ring wich is finally closed. I had this picture send for me lately by a girl who also is going to be at the 1700 market. It was the first time i ever saw the picture in colour. The picture she sended me was very small, but i have enlarged it and therefore it is not very sharp. You can se it here: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/gammelestrup.htm I think it would be very nice if i finally made this dress. When i first set my eyes on it, i desided i wanted to learn how to make such a dress. And in many ways this picture has ben a part of my life. Is it not strange? I have got this idea, that i want to make some enquirys here and there, if there is a girl, not two big in size wich can have a narrow bodice and want to have such a dress. Then i want to make it for free, only materials has to be payed to me. Then i also want to borrow this dress for exhibition at this castle for 1 month before i send it to the owner. I think it could be very nice, if i could make this dress and exhibit it under this picture! I dont think it would be difficult to find material that matches this dress. Very pale grey is it taffeta? patterned. I browsed silk connection and they have some fabric wich looks very similar. It is silk jacquard, but would that be as stiff as the material in the picture? Any suggestions any of you! Please let me hear your oppinion. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 26 10:08:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2QF8diF015652 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:08:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QF7icP025999; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:07:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QF7aTc012438; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:07:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QF7XTc012414 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:07:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.119]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2QF2aZ28859 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:02:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B6ssN-000291-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:04:03 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sheer ruffle was: Bathsheba and skirt ruffle Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:02:38 -0700 Message-ID: <002b01c41343$6123a8c0$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i2QF7XTc012414 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay, now I see the confusion. Where is the Bathsheba picture? Thanks, Sg > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of otsisto > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:33 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] Sheer ruffle was: Bathsheba and skirt ruffle > > Sorry I thought we were still talking about the Bathsheba picture. > I wish there was a bigger Getty picture. It looks like a sheer ruffle over > the lower section of the dress but it could be dirt on the hem. > > De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 26 10:40:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2QFeeiF015817 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:40:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QFcdcP028308; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:38:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QFcZTc031764; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:38:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QFcYTc031681 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:38:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004032615332001600fm9f8e>; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:33:20 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:33:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hand weaving tunics From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm curious about what kind of loom you're talking about here -- if you have separate heddles and reed, two threads per dent won't make basket-weave at all. Basket-weave is a function of the *heddles*. I've done lots of stuff where a thread from the first harness and a thread from the second harness both went through a single dent in the reed -- I do a lot of 24 epi in a 12-dent reed. At present I've got something set up at 30 epi in a 12 dent reed -- which is 3 threads in one dent and 2 in the next, if I'm remembering correctly. I'm weaving an overshot pattern with it -- with areas of plain tabby, They all weave fine. You just have to make sure you don't cross threads between the heddle and the reed -- and, of course, that you've got enough heddles for the sett you want. IF you are talking about a rigid-heddle arrangement instead, you can add more rigid heddles to get a closer sett. I'm doing this on a tape-loom I have. If your set-up allows you to make a shed by pushing harnesses DOWN as well as UP, you can make any pattern you could on a four-harness loom with three rigid heddles (the fourth shed is achieved with all three rigid heddles down.) I have three 12-dent rigid heddles, and this gives me the capacity to weave up to 48 epi (in tabby, using all three rigid heddles up as one shed, and down as the second shed. For twills, where I only want 1/4 of the threads on the "down" shed, it's only 24 epi, I think.) Anyway if your issue is a rigid heddle, you can add rigid heddles until you get the sett you want. You'll still want just one thread per heddle-eye, but there will be multiple threads in the slots between heddle-eyes. You can still use the front one as a beater -- the multiple threads that go in the slots between heddles will even themselves out. As Carol wrote, you REALLY don't want to try to draw in to the thread count you want, as there are all kinds of unwanted consequences, and it gets quite nuisance-y to weave. Hope this helps. Good luck with the project. Lauren > >> Unfortunately, putting two threads per dent won't help much. You >> end up with a half-basketweave that will also be fairly stiff and >> thick if firmly woven. If you use a fine thread at one thread per >> dent and weave it so that you end up with 40+ threads per inch in >> the web (which will make it *much* narrower than the width of the >> reed), you might be able to come up with a fabric with decent >> draping qualities. Let us know how it works. >> Joan > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 26 10:48:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2QFmsiF015849 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:48:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QFjScP028882; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:45:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QFjSTc036803; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:45:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QFjRTc036795 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:45:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E0871D602 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:45:27 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p481.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.227]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3D89AD4B0 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:45:25 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 4 pictures Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:45:29 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <40604855.1080309@thibault.org> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bathsheba http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/3mature2/25nobath.jpg Have a look at the servant woman's hem. Almost looks like a ruffle. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 26 10:49:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2QFnViF015856 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:49:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QFkBcP028948; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:46:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QFkATc037267; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:46:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QFk3Tc037142 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:46:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004032615394401100lt3bee>; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:39:44 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:39:31 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kenmore 1750 From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <405D3894.6060206@demaslaw.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Definitely contact Sears. The trouble with Kenmore appliances -- and my house is littered with them, thanks to my parents -- is that Sears would use whatever manufacturer gave them a good deal that year. Only Sears knows for sure! Check the instruction book carefully for whether it needs a cam for zigzag -- as others wrote, on some Kenmores (I have the weird green one from 1979, too) it's built-in. If you do need to go cam-hunting, try Sears first, and then look into some of the sewing-machine e-lists -- folks often have good ideas on tracking down parts. Good luck! Lauren > From: General > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:39:16 -0800 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] Kenmore 1750 > > I bought a Kenmore 1750 in a cabinet at a yard sale for $60.00. It has > all metal parts, the complete instructional book, and all the cams > including the buttonhole cams except for one; a zigzag stitch. I have > two questions. Who made the Kenmore and where can I get the missing cam? > > LD > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 26 11:22:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2QGMviF016002 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:22:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QGKpcP002184; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:20:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QGKmTc061330; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:20:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QGKhTc061297 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:20:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.119]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B6spZ-0008Hf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:01:09 -0800 Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B6sqx-0001mp-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:02:35 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bathsheba and skirt ruffle [was Re: 4 pictures] Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:01:10 -0700 Message-ID: <002a01c41343$2c9f4af0$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <4061C0CA.10109@yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a full sized poster of the picture and saw it at the Getty. What is the question...I missed the original post. >I think its bath water or shadow and not sheer fabric. [Sg] Bathwater or shadow?? Maybe we are not looking at the same picture. Where's the bathwater? Both women have very sheer head pieces on. I see what you mean that the ruffle might be sheer, but much less so than the headdresses. > I also find the gigantic pins holding Bertha's sleeves to be > interesting. I assume they weren't actually that big, but are painted > that big so that the viewer knows they're there. [Sg] What huge pins? I don't even see any pins on her sleeves. (I am assuming you mean the woman in the center on the bench?) It also seems like rather odd logic to me. If they did this on a regular basis, you would see huge buttons, jewelry etc. Very curious now! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 26 11:37:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2QGb6iF016046 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:37:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QGaEcP003862; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:36:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QGaDTc072071; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:36:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QGa9Tc072040 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:36:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.232]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B6esh-0001Ni-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:07:27 -0800 Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B6esg-0003jM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:07:26 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:07:26 -0700 Message-ID: <001b01c412c6$529e7f00$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <001401c412b5$f5f10350$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i2QGa9Tc072040 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sequined headdress shaped like Catherine of Braganza'shair X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cyn was right, it is in Kohler (page 255 in my old edition). Figure 312, captioned "Cap made of Gold Sequins, as worn in the imperial cities." It is in the German section and dated 1600. > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:10 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Charles II Miniseries - Catherine of Braganza'shair? > > Hi Saragrace, > I remember that picture two. But this is from a time before Christ isnt it? > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 26 15:34:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2QKYaiF018165 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:34:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QKXecP024649; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:33:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QKXHTc038971; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:33:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14005.mail.yahoo.com (web14005.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2QKX9Tc038904 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:33:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040326195054.63306.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:50:54 GMT Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:50:54 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: Medieval_Spain@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Merchant from Spain X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Apparently there is a gentleman tailor from Spain who sets up shop at Gulf War (SCA). I have been told his name is Jose, but no one seems to remember anything else except all the garb he makes is Spanish. Has anyone heard of him or know if he has a website? Thanks, Catalina ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ WIN FREE WORLDWIDE FLIGHTS - nominate a cafe in the Yahoo! Mail Internet Cafe Awards www.yahoo.co.uk/internetcafes _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 26 17:20:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2QMKqiF019024 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:20:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QMIEcP007596; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:18:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QMHBTc015449; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:18:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QMH4Tc015362 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:17:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Camelothorse@earthlink.net) Received: from bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.119]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2QLrdZ14599 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:53:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-67.74.131.204.dial1.houston1.level3.net ([67.74.131.204] helo=diane) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B6zHy-00064c-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:54:54 -0800 Message-ID: <054c01c4137c$cf290160$20834a43@diane> From: "Diane Maynard" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040326195054.63306.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Merchant from Spain Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:53:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Are you possibly talking of Jose of Desert Torch ? He makes the most awesome clothing that looks like it walks right out of the paintings. Yes he does have a web site if this is the person you want. Go to www.deserttorch.com/ Diane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catalina Saravia Quicedo" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:50 PM Subject: [h-cost] Merchant from Spain > Apparently there is a gentleman tailor from Spain > who sets up shop at Gulf War (SCA). I have been told > his name is Jose, but no one seems to remember > anything else except all the garb he makes is Spanish. > Has anyone heard of him or know if he has a website? > > > Thanks, > Catalina > > ===== > Catalina > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > WIN FREE WORLDWIDE FLIGHTS - nominate a cafe in the Yahoo! Mail Internet Cafe Awards www.yahoo.co.uk/internetcafes > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 26 17:21:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2QMLpiF019028 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:21:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QMJOcP007749; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:19:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QMJKTc016950; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:19:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QMJ7Tc016783 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:19:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.129.141]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EC5F6D8B3 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:19:01 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:19:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Merchant from Spain Message-ID: <40643BD4.9359.77129A@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20040326195054.63306.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Apparently there is a gentleman tailor from Spain > who sets up shop at Gulf War (SCA). I have been told > his name is Jose, but no one seems to remember > anything else except all the garb he makes is Spanish. > Has anyone heard of him or know if he has a website? Jose is great! He owns Desert Torch Tailoring and Tenting. His website is www.deserttorch.com. You can also email him at owners@deserttorch.com. (That's not his personal one, but his business one. I wouldn't give out his private one but I know he gives out the other one pretty freely.) His name is really Mathew Gnagy but he does Alcega period tailoring. He's got a system for drafting the Alcega doublet that is actually from studying Alcega (the written and pictoral parts) as opposed to other systems which use 19th Century tailoring techniques to produce the look of Alcega. (He drafted a doublet for me at Estrella to show me how his new system works. I can't wait until it is next in the "projects to do" line!) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 26 18:14:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2QNEDiF019239 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:14:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QNDPcP015043; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:13:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QNDOTc055318; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:13:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QNDJTc055290 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:13:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-206-3.cvip.net [129.8.206.3]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F5535E598 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:50:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040326143501.02c9ebe8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:43:12 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Merchant from Spain In-Reply-To: <40643BD4.9359.77129A@localhost> References: <20040326195054.63306.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Kat for sharing your story and to you and Diane for sharing the link. oh, wow! I wish I had seen his photos before I began working on my husband's doublet. This is some of the best men's tailoring I have seen yet. I only wish the photos were larger. I have been using Trump's Doublet and Trunkhose, and that has been helpful, but I need the real works. My husband's doublet came out ok, but I couldn't follow Trump's method of drafting a doublet, as he bases his measurements on odd things, like the cuff length of the sleeve is based on the back width of the body measurement. What does one have to do with the other? And as my husband is plus sized, the theorectical measurements of Trumps just did not come close to the actual measurements. So I ended up doing modern methods of drafting, and then making the front peascod curve look like the Alcega lines. I am working on the sleeves and trunkhose now. Someday I gotta get my hands on that Alcega book! Kimiko At 02:19 PM 3/26/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Jose is great! He owns Desert Torch Tailoring and Tenting. His >website is www.deserttorch.com. > ><> > >His name is really Mathew Gnagy but he does Alcega period tailoring. >He's got a system for drafting the Alcega doublet that is actually >from studying Alcega (the written and pictoral parts) as opposed to >other systems which use 19th Century tailoring techniques to produce >the look of Alcega. (He drafted a doublet for me at Estrella to show >me how his new system works. I can't wait until it is next in the >"projects to do" line!) > >Kat > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 26 18:14:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2QNEiiF019242 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:14:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QNCMcP014947; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:12:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QNCKTc054666; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:12:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2QNC8Tc054574 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:12:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1A4D1D4F3 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:12:07 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p350.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.96]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BBC9CD4B0 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:12:06 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:12:11 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <002a01c41343$2c9f4af0$6a01a8c0@SG01> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Which pic? was: Bathsheba and skirt ruffle X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Memling picture of Bathsheba, has her getting out of what appears to be a bath not a bed. There appears to be water puddles on the floor. Someone switched to another picture of a woman with a ruffle and did not change the subject heading which confused me as I thought they were still commenting on the Memling ruffle. De -----Original Message----- I have a full sized poster of the picture and saw it at the Getty. What is the question...I missed the original post. >I think its bath water or shadow and not sheer fabric. [Sg] Bathwater or shadow?? Maybe we are not looking at the same picture. Where's the bathwater? Both women have very sheer head pieces on. I see what you mean that the ruffle might be sheer, but much less so than the headdresses. > I also find the gigantic pins holding Bertha's sleeves to be > interesting. I assume they weren't actually that big, but are painted > that big so that the viewer knows they're there. [Sg] What huge pins? I don't even see any pins on her sleeves. (I am assuming you mean the woman in the center on the bench?) It also seems like rather odd logic to me. If they did this on a regular basis, you would see huge buttons, jewelry etc. Very curious now! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 26 19:10:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2R0AMiF019478 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:10:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R06ocP018873; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:06:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R06iTc087846; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:06:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay11-dav17.bay11.hotmail.com [64.4.38.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R06gTc087790 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:06:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:49:21 -0800 Received: from 4.10.36.229 by bay11-dav17.bay11.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 23:49:21 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.10.36.229] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040326195054.63306.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20040326143501.02c9ebe8@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Merchant from Spain Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:49:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:49:27 -0500 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Mar 2004 23:49:21.0805 (UTC) FILETIME=[F613ABD0:01C4138C] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2R0AMiF019478 Status: RO I've seen his off-the-rack clothes at Pennsic and they are beautiful, if somewhat expensive. However, there were many out of "unknown" but probably at least partly synthetic fabric (and in the heat of afternoon shopping at Pennsic, that's a detail you really pay attention to.) Even worse, he never pre-washes his fabric, which means everything has to be dry-cleaned. Perhaps if you ordered something custom, you could supply your own fabric. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 26 20:13:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2R1DQiF020123 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:13:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R1CfcP022339; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:12:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R1CbTc020611; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:12:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R1CXTc020566 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:12:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.129.141]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A8786A45F for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:12:31 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:12:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Merchant from Spain Message-ID: <4064647C.26359.115E1B2@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20040326143501.02c9ebe8@64.87.54.245> References: <40643BD4.9359.77129A@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have been using Trump's Doublet and Trunkhose, and that has been > helpful, but I need the real works. My husband's doublet came out ok, > but I couldn't follow Trump's method of drafting a doublet, as he > bases his measurements on odd things, like the cuff length of the > sleeve is based on the back width of the body measurement. What does > one have to do with the other? Bodies tend to be in certain ranges based on proportion. All the professional methods from Alcega and through to the present (including Davis and all the 19th C tailoring manuals) are based on this. That's why they're used so much in professional tailoring. And as my husband is plus sized, the > theorectical measurements of Trumps just did not come close to the > actual measurements. So I ended up doing modern methods of drafting, > and then making the front peascod curve look like the Alcega lines. I > am working on the sleeves and trunkhose now. Whenever you do a block off of theoreticals, it has to have a final fitting for the final garment. And that is not done in the "pretty fabric" but in a fitting garment. (In women's case it's often called a toile.) However, there are garments which are tailored specifically for the "plus size" person as even they have proportions. (Alcega so elegantly puts it in ways like "kirtle for a fat woman". But it wasn't meant for the client to see.) > Someday I gotta get my hands on that Alcega book! It's a good one. And if you want to learn about period tailoring, I feel that one should have some knowledge of how they work in many periods (even ones you don't plan to emulate. Which is how I have several 19th C tailoring system books in my library although 16th C is really where my heart is when it comes to tailoring.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 26 21:42:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2R2g0iF020748 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:42:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R2ancP026117; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:36:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R2akTc058961; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:36:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R2afTc058912 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:36:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp225.pop1.net [209.102.127.60]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA27386 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:37:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp225.pop1.net [209.102.127.60] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <4064E8B6.1080808@pcez.com> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:36:38 -0800 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Subcribe help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, My other half wants to join the mailing list, but I can't recall how to subscribe. I did try to use the link at the bottom of the page, but alas nothing happend. Help please? Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 26 23:41:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2R4f4iF021357 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 23:41:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R4eJcP001758; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:40:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R4eFTc012514; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:40:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R4eDTc012492 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:40:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.119]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2R4G6E22568 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:16:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B75GH-0001yq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:17:33 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Merchant from Spain Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:16:05 -0700 Message-ID: <005f01c413b2$3b5e03a0$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <40643BD4.9359.77129A@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lord Jose is a fine fellow. He is constantly looking for original and 'new' sources for inspiration. Some of his current stuff is German from the tailor's book on Drea's site. His 'off the rack clothing' is only one of the ways he makes his living (he does film an theater as well) and is acutely aware of its limitation. In my humble opinion he is completely justified in his 'lack' of pre-washing fabrics. You simply cannot expect a tailored garment to withstand a normal washing routine. It would be like putting your husband's tux in the wash machine. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 00:54:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2R5swiF022144 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 00:54:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R5s5cP004726; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:54:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R5s5Tc041316; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:54:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R5rRTc041113 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:53:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-206-3.cvip.net [129.8.206.3]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D653629EF for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:53:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040326213758.02cb8b88@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:45:55 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Merchant from Spain In-Reply-To: <4064647C.26359.115E1B2@localhost> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040326143501.02c9ebe8@64.87.54.245> <40643BD4.9359.77129A@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Kat, Thanks so much for your insights into the older tailoring methods. Not having Alcega's book, I wasn't sure where Trump was pulling his info from, and I don't recall if he actually explains where he gets his methods. At 05:12 PM 3/26/2004 -0800, you wrote: > ><> >Bodies tend to be in certain ranges based on proportion. All the >professional methods from Alcega and through to the present >(including Davis and all the 19th C tailoring manuals) are based on >this. That's why they're used so much in professional tailoring. I can understand the proportions, but why not use actual measurements if they are more applicable? Like in the wrist measurement. >Whenever you do a block off of theoreticals, it has to have a final >fitting for the final garment. And that is not done in the "pretty >fabric" but in a fitting garment. (In women's case it's often called >a toile.) I always do a toile, or mockup, or whatever one prefers to call it, especially for something as fitted as a doublet. And I am glad I did on this one, because plus sized people have different curves than theoretical models. >However, there are garments which are tailored specifically for the >"plus size" person as even they have proportions. (Alcega so >elegantly puts it in ways like "kirtle for a fat woman". But it >wasn't meant for the client to see.) Ah, this is what I want to see, if he has any garment patterns for plus sized men. I had heard about the "kirtle for a fat woman", which I would love to try out on myself. >It's a good one. And if you want to learn about period tailoring, I >feel that one should have some knowledge of how they work in many >periods (even ones you don't plan to emulate. Which is how I have >several 19th C tailoring system books in my library although 16th C >is really where my heart is when it comes to tailoring.) I didn't want to get into men's tailoring, however I have of late had more men ask for my services than women, and non-normal shaped men at that (one of super small size, a military man with extra large chest, and my "prosperous" hubby). >Kat > Thanks again, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 00:55:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2R5tgiF022160 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 00:55:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R5rVcP004697; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:53:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R5rSTc041119; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:53:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R5rQTc041103 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:53:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-206-3.cvip.net [129.8.206.3]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4C33629D3 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:53:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040326213456.00b0b4e0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:37:34 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] Merchant from Spain In-Reply-To: <005f01c413b2$3b5e03a0$6a01a8c0@SG01> References: <40643BD4.9359.77129A@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:16 PM 3/26/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Lord Jose is a fine fellow. He is constantly looking for original and 'new' >sources for inspiration. Some of his current stuff is German from the >tailor's book on Drea's site. His 'off the rack clothing' is only one of >the ways he makes his living (he does film an theater as well) and is >acutely aware of its limitation. In my humble opinion he is completely >justified in his 'lack' of pre-washing fabrics. You simply cannot expect a >tailored garment to withstand a normal washing routine. It would be like >putting your husband's tux in the wash machine. > >Sg While I can understand not wanting to put a tailored garment into the wash after it is created (I am feeling that way about my hubby's doublet), I still would want to wash the materials first, if possible, to remove the funny stuff they put into the materials or to preshrink the materials. But then, the doublet is cotton velveteen and a shantung silk, and I know that if I didn't prewash both, something would happen and it would end up shrinking on me anyway. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 04:50:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2R9oFiF016598 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 04:50:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R9ktcP011502; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 02:46:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R9klTc023374; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 02:46:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2R9keTc023303 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 02:46:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f41.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.65]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4816C262871 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 10:46:33 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002801c413e0$72314490$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 10:46:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bath X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2R9oFiF016598 Status: RO Hi Stevie, It is a smame that Danielle could not get a ticket for the dansing lessons. She also has told me that she is waiting for some boning to arrive from Canada. I thoaght she had her costume finished, but she need to make the stays. Could she not wear the dress without one, and just use a push up bra? Anyway how are you getting along with your pannier dress? I am so excited to se you. I suggested Danielle, that she could have my dansing lesson ticket, but would you be very disapointed about that? As for me i would not mind, and it would be such a shame for Danielle, if she could not participate in the dansing. What do you suggest? Hope you are ok, i really am looking forwards to this................ Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 07:29:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2RCT6iF017622 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:29:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RCPtcP017523; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 05:25:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RCPZTc081985; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 05:25:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RCPNTc081901 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 05:25:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f41.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.65]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 511B347FE6B for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:25:13 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000d01c413f6$9810d8e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002801c413e0$72314490$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bath Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:25:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooh my, i am so sorry. This was ment for Stevie, and not for the list. Please forgive me. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 13:07:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2RI7oiF018999 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:07:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RI5hcP001252; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:05:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RI5bTc011631; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:05:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RI5XTc011590 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:05:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fe8.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.232]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CF8CC26283B for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:05:27 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001401c41426$22481a80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:05:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] coronation robe X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2RI7oiF018999 Status: RO Hello, I just wondered if any of you could explain something for me. It is about cut of womens clothes page 119. The coronation Robe of Louisa Ulrika. belive it was Janet Arnold who made this pattern. The pannier on top what is the first pattern. To me it looks like a narrow strip of material, but i am not sure. It should be joined to c and d. What are the small strips that goes up, is it to show that it had tape ties inside to keep the oval shape? There is absolutely no explanations to this. Another thing i think the bias cut of the front bodice in the pannier looks much two big at D. Any help anyone= Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 13:21:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2RILLiF019080 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:21:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RIKXcP002076; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:20:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RIKWTc017961; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:20:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RIKUTc017858 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:20:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0973.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.206]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FD3DBED48 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:20:22 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4065C5EB.7020203@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:20:27 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Box loom X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I am looking for pictures/paintings of 14th century or earlier box looms for band weaving. I have seen at least one painting with a box loom but I can't find it anymore and I don't know from wat period it was. A friend of mine wants to make one for reanactment but she wants proof that they had box looms. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 14:03:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2RJ3liF019356 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:03:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RJ2ncP004421; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:02:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RJ2mTc036058; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:02:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RJ2cTc035991 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:02:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.133.139]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEE696A8DA for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:02:36 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:02:34 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [h-cost] Merchant from Spain Message-ID: <40655F4A.25236.4E996A0@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <005f01c413b2$3b5e03a0$6a01a8c0@SG01> References: <40643BD4.9359.77129A@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO SG wrote: > In my humble opinion > he is completely justified in his 'lack' of pre-washing fabrics. You > simply cannot expect a tailored garment to withstand a normal washing > routine. It would be like putting your husband's tux in the wash > machine. He often uses some fabrics which do not do well with machine washing. They start being distorted when they get that sort of agitation. (Beautiful brocades, for instance.) What I was always told to do is to "pretreat" the fabric in the same way that you are going to launder it after the garment is made. This gets out the sizing and pesticides they use on the fabrics, but doesn't damage the fabric. And that includes dry cleaning it before I make the garment. And if the dry cleaner tells you "you don't need to do that because dry cleaning doesn't shrink the fabric" then find a different dry cleaner. That one doesn't know enough about fabrics. (Dry cleaning *does* shrink the fabric. It just does it at a slower rate than washing it.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 14:06:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2RJ6NiF019368 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:06:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RJ34cP004454; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:03:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RJ33Tc036186; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:03:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RJ2gTc036023 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:02:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.133.139]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 486E46A8E6 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:02:40 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:02:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <40655F4C.2887.4E99C2E@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20040326213758.02cb8b88@64.87.54.245> References: <4064647C.26359.115E1B2@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Period tailoring techniques, was: Re:Merchant from Spain X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Thanks so much for your insights into the older tailoring methods. Not > having Alcega's book, I wasn't sure where Trump was pulling his info > from, and I don't recall if he actually explains where he gets his > methods. I don't know if he does explain them in print. I've taken several workshops from him (including a doublet workshop) and was his "driver" when he was in town for those. So, I was just lucky enough to talk with him about things of that sort. Plus, Jose did a good portion of his training in the St. Louis Opera where Bob is a draper, so he has even more insights into how it was developed. Jose and I are buddies so whenever I'm at an event where he is we end up talking tailoring a lot. (And since we both know Bob, we have a common experience.) > >Bodies tend to be in certain ranges based on proportion. All the > >professional methods from Alcega and through to the present > >(including Davis and all the 19th C tailoring manuals) are based on > >this. That's why they're used so much in professional tailoring. > > I can understand the proportions, but why not use actual measurements > if they are more applicable? Like in the wrist measurement. But you don't always have those measurements. In period they often times didn't take them even. I can't tell you how many times I've been glad I had a bust measurement and a back length measurement when I've sewn for someone who wasn't going to be present except for (if I'm lucky) a "day of the event" fitting. You're lucky in that the person you're sewing for is there to be measured. I've often had to make things for people who lived 500 miles or more away. > I always do a toile, or mockup, or whatever one prefers to call it, > especially for something as fitted as a doublet. And I am glad I did > on this one, because plus sized people have different curves than > theoretical models. They certainly do! > >It's a good one. And if you want to learn about period tailoring, I > >feel that one should have some knowledge of how they work in many > >periods (even ones you don't plan to emulate. Which is how I have > >several 19th C tailoring system books in my library although 16th C > >is really where my heart is when it comes to tailoring.) > > I didn't want to get into men's tailoring, however I have of late had > more men ask for my services than women, and non-normal shaped men at > that (one of super small size, a military man with extra large chest, > and my "prosperous" hubby). A lot of the tailoring methods will work for either a man or a woman. I've made doublets for myself and other women using Bob's book. And Jose drafted my pattern from the Alcega doublet study, not a specifically woman's pattern. (There are some differences, but they are remarkably minor considering the mammaries on women! At least for the 16th C. For later time periods, it's often a different story but it depends on the garment itself. A women's bodice even in the 16th C is cut different from a woman's doublet or a coat, which are more like the men's.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 17:18:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2RMIFiF020975 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:18:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RMEscP013202; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:14:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RMElTc019185; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:14:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RMEjTc019116 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:14:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from someone@eskimo.com) Received: from bently (c-67-161-103-121.client.comcast.net[67.161.103.121]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <200403272214390140078b4ee>; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:14:39 +0000 Message-ID: <000001c41449$1acb0f60$2a02a8c0@Belkin> From: "Pam and David" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000e01c412b5$ce019fd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] my dream costume Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:01:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have got this idea, that i want to make some enquirys here and there, if there is a girl, not two big in size wich can have a narrow bodice and want to have such a dress. Then i want to make it for free, only materials has to be payed to me. Then i also want to borrow this dress for exhibition at this castle for 1 month before i send it to the owner. Well, I'm very much *not* such a girl, larger than I want to be, and shaped completely wrong for such a thing. *But*, I have the financial means and interest to own such a dress...you could make it in any size you want to, I'd pay for it, you could display it wherever you want to, and I'd get a line on the exhibit card...would that work for you? Pam Dotson Everett, WA USA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 18:23:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2RNNXiF021351 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:23:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RNJtcP016063; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:19:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RNJrTc046497; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:19:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RNJpTc046480 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:19:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.88] (p24.3c02.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.88]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2RNBbH23271 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:11:38 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:57:17 -0700 From: Sylvia To: Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1920s dress question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know if any of you are experts on 1920s clothing, but I have a vintage dress from that decade with metallic embroidery on it that I'm wondering about both what the metallic threads would be made out of and what the value of the dress is. I would like to sell it but I'm just not sure of its worth. I don't know if we are allowed to post attachments on this list. If so, I will send photos. If not, is there another way to post pictures? Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 18:30:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2RNUIiF021408 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:30:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RNR2cP016382; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RNR0Tc049360; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:27:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2RNQwTc049338 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:26:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.178.197]) by smail2.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 14154846 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:16:56 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1920s dress question Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:25:32 -0600 Message-ID: <03ef01c41452$cccf0690$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As to sale price, look at eBay and see what people are getting there. Go to this page: http://clothing.listings.ebay.com/Vintage_Womens-Clothing_W0QQfromZR4QQs acategoryZ14071QQsocmdZListingItemList And put 1920's in the search box. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sylvia Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:57 PM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] 1920s dress question I don't know if any of you are experts on 1920s clothing, but I have a vintage dress from that decade with metallic embroidery on it that I'm wondering about both what the metallic threads would be made out of and what the value of the dress is. I would like to sell it but I'm just not sure of its worth. I don't know if we are allowed to post attachments on this list. If so, I will send photos. If not, is there another way to post pictures? Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 19:23:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2S0NAiF022062 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:23:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S0JxcP018867; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S0JsTc071111; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:19:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S0JqTc071091 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:19:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.184] (p24.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.184]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2RNxfH25971 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:59:41 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:45:11 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1920s dress question From: Sylvia To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <03ef01c41452$cccf0690$0201a8c0@kimathlon> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have looked at what other dresses are getting on ebay. My concern was because of the metallic embroidery. I was wondering if it could possibly be gold. I was hoping someone might know if real gold would have been used at this time. My guess is no but if it would be, I wouldnt want to sell the dress for as cheap as people seem to want to pay on ebay. > From: "kim baird" > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:25:32 -0600 > To: "'Historical Costume'" > Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1920s dress question > > As to sale price, look at eBay and see what people are getting there. Go > to this page: > http://clothing.listings.ebay.com/Vintage_Womens-Clothing_W0QQfromZR4QQs > acategoryZ14071QQsocmdZListingItemList > And put 1920's in the search box. > > Kim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Sylvia > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:57 PM > To: h-costume@net.indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] 1920s dress question > > > I don't know if any of you are experts on 1920s clothing, but I have a > vintage dress from that decade with metallic embroidery on it that I'm > wondering about both what the metallic threads would be made out of and > what the value of the dress is. I would like to sell it but I'm just > not sure of its worth. > > I don't know if we are allowed to post attachments on this list. If so, > I will send photos. If not, is there another way to post pictures? > > Sylrog > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 20:09:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2S19GiF022255 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:09:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S16acP021049; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:06:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S16YTc090227; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:06:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.snvacaid.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S16XTc090215 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:06:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from theresa@misc.com) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2S1Br52026810 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:11:54 -0800 Message-ID: <40662393.4090902@misc.com> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:00:03 -0800 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1920s dress question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is your dress made of a net-like textile with metal strips folded to the inside? Or is it a woven fabric with needle-stitched metal threads? I'm having trouble picturing what it is you might have. Pricing the garment also depends on condition for something from the '20's. Theresa Eacker Sylvia wrote: > I have looked at what other dresses are getting on ebay. My concern was > because of the metallic embroidery. I was wondering if it could possibly be > gold. I was hoping someone might know if real gold would have been used at > this time. My guess is no but if it would be, I wouldnt want to sell the > dress for as cheap as people seem to want to pay on ebay. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 20:11:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2S1BgiF022279 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:11:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S19gcP021225; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:09:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S19eTc091477; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:09:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S19cTc091423 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:09:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A5BF145000AA; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:09:19 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A5ABCCC01BE; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:08:59 -0600 Message-ID: <001b01c41461$49fcbd20$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <03ef01c41452$cccf0690$0201a8c0@kimathlon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1920s dress question Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:09:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kim, If you are talking about beaded dresses like this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2899412465&category=48560 except in metallic beads/threads they are worth the $100 starting point. Some things to look for on these beaded or embroidered dresses on chiffon is how well is the chiffon holding up. Many times the chiffon gives or rips from the weight of the embellishments in vintage 1920s. It amazes me when you find a good piece that holds up well over time. So if you have one in good condition, make sure to point that out and show enlargements. Another thing to look for is it the metal embroidery has turned or not. I have seen many of these dresses where the metal embroidery or sequins have turned. If yours has not turned, it is worth more. Take enlargements to show it on your auction. I would be really careful of saying something is a gold or silver thread without an expert or appraiser to back it up the claim. You can get into trouble quickly if you say something is and it turns out not to be. Instead of saying the embroidery is made of gold, say it is gold colored with a metallic sheen. Be honest and state that you are unsure if the thread is actually gold metal or not. BTW, I would show better enlargement than they one that eBay offers for multiple images. I know other dealers use another service to show nice enlargements. If I wanted to purchase something for $100+, I would want to see really good closeups of the dress. The one dealer who is showing a mannequin in front of a full length mirror is a nice presentation of the product. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 20:41:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2S1fjiF022402 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:41:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S1edcP022646; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:40:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S1eXTc004252; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:40:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S1eVTc004216 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:40:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:40:25 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Beta Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:40:13 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Merchant from Spain X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jose is a hoot :)! I think he lurks on here occasionally but may still be getting back from Gulf Wars. His mundane side also worked with Bob Trump in theater in St Louis for awhile and he has continued on with his own interpurtations of Alecga. Do drop him an email Kimiko, he might be able to help you with some of the measurement problems. He and his partner (and a cat or two) usually make it to the Lilies War in Calontir in June if anyone wants to catch him before Pennsic. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 20:44:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2S1iLiF022417 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:44:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S1hMcP022777; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:43:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S1hLTc005365; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:43:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S1hJTc005352 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:43:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.88] (p24.3c02.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.88]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2S1eJH31866 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:40:19 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:25:55 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1920s dress question From: Sylvia To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <40662393.4090902@misc.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have photos. Can I send them to the list as attachments? > From: Theresa Eacker > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:00:03 -0800 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1920s dress question > > Is your dress made of a net-like textile with metal strips folded to the > inside? Or is it a woven fabric with needle-stitched metal threads? > > I'm having trouble picturing what it is you might have. > > Pricing the garment also depends on condition for something from the '20's. > > Theresa Eacker > > Sylvia wrote: >> I have looked at what other dresses are getting on ebay. My concern was >> because of the metallic embroidery. I was wondering if it could possibly be >> gold. I was hoping someone might know if real gold would have been used at >> this time. My guess is no but if it would be, I wouldnt want to sell the >> dress for as cheap as people seem to want to pay on ebay. >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 21:13:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2S2DCiF022541 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:13:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S29lcP023744; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:09:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S29lTc015774; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:09:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.snvacaid.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S29hTc015752 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:09:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from theresa@misc.com) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2S2F352014418 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:15:04 -0800 Message-ID: <4066325D.5000200@misc.com> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:03:09 -0800 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1920s dress question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know if attachments are allowed on this list. Can you post a link instead, if you have your own website??? Now I'm getting out of my depth (which is at the shallowest end of the pool!!). Sorry for creating problems, Theresa Eacker Sylvia wrote: > I have photos. Can I send them to the list as attachments? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 21:16:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2S2GviF022547 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:16:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S2GFcP023984; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:16:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S2GDTc018279; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:16:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S2GATc018246 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:16:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A5571E53009A; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:15:51 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A5471A3001A0; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:15:35 -0600 Message-ID: <006801c4146a$9cbe69b0$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4066325D.5000200@misc.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1920s dress question Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:15:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Theresa, Yes, you can post links. I can't wait to see the dress. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 21:41:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2S2fbiF022622 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:41:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S2dQcP024964; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:39:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S2dOTc027248; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:39:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S2d3Tc027107 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:39:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-206-3.cvip.net [129.8.206.3]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1683051636 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:16:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040327180106.03750278@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:02:18 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Period tailoring techniques, was: Re:Merchant from Spain In-Reply-To: <40655F4C.2887.4E99C2E@localhost> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040326213758.02cb8b88@64.87.54.245> <4064647C.26359.115E1B2@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:02 AM 3/27/2004 -0800, you wrote: >A lot of the tailoring methods will work for either a man or a woman. >I've made doublets for myself and other women using Bob's book. And >Jose drafted my pattern from the Alcega doublet study, not a >specifically woman's pattern. (There are some differences, but they >are remarkably minor considering the mammaries on women! At least for >the 16th C. For later time periods, it's often a different story but >it depends on the garment itself. A women's bodice even in the 16th C >is cut different from a woman's doublet or a coat, which are more >like the men's.) > >Kat Thanks Kat, this is good to know. I have fallen for a doublet design for myself, and was hoping I could adjust things for my own shape. Would you happen to know what those minor differences are? Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 21:42:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2S2gXiF022626 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:42:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S2d0cP024939; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S2cwTc027080; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:38:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S2cvTc027072 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:38:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-206-3.cvip.net [129.8.206.3]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856F8512C6 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:16:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040327175836.00b0b6c8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:00:18 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Merchant from Spain In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:40 PM 3/27/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Do drop him an email Kimiko, he might be able to help you with some of >the measurement problems. He and his partner (and a cat or two) usually >make it to the Lilies War in Calontir in June if anyone wants to catch >him before Pennsic. > >Catherine Thanks Catherine, I just might drop him an email, as I have found his work to be inspirational for my goals. Would you mind however putting Calontir into American locations? I do not do SCA, so I am not familiar with SCA locations. Thank you. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 21:52:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2S2qHiF022648 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:52:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S2pTcP025496; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:51:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S2pPTc032021; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:51:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S2pKTc031983 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:51:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.132.113]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 588956EF7C for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:51:18 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:51:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Period tailoring techniques, was: Re:Merchant from Spain Message-ID: <4065CD26.5880.696B9E1@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20040327180106.03750278@64.87.54.245> References: <40655F4C.2887.4E99C2E@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Thanks Kat, this is good to know. I have fallen for a doublet design > for myself, and was hoping I could adjust things for my own shape. > Would you happen to know what those minor differences are? Women's doublets generally do not have a peascod belly (although some of the Italian ones look like they do have it) and the collar back tends to be made separately from the back instead of in one piece like the men's are. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 21:55:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2S2t7iF022667 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:55:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S2pncP025526; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:51:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S2pmTc032238; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:51:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S2pKTc031986 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:51:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.132.113]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E2346F0B5 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:51:19 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:51:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Merchant from Spain Message-ID: <4065CD27.12339.696BBA6@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.0.20040327175836.00b0b6c8@64.87.54.245> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I just might drop him an email, as I have found his work to be > inspirational for my goals. > > Would you mind however putting Calontir into American locations? I do > not do SCA, so I am not familiar with SCA locations. In the middle of America. Mostly Kansas and parts of Missouri. Try reaching Jose at either http://www.deserttorch.com/ or at I hadn't actually looked at their website. (I don't like the pictures they have on there. They look much nicer in person!) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 27 23:22:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2S4MiiF023210 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 23:22:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S4JEcP029050; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:19:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S4JBTc065878; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:19:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S4JATc065866 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:19:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EAE31D1D6 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:19:09 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p270.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.16]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C389C5E9 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:19:08 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Merchant from Spain Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:19:17 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040327175836.00b0b6c8@64.87.54.245> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kingdom of Calontir = Kansas, Iowa, Nebraska, and Missouri (with an exception of a small NE area) and Fayetteville, Arkansas. De -----Original Message----- Would you mind however putting Calontir into American locations? I do not do SCA, so I am not familiar with SCA locations. Thank you. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 28 03:09:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2S89IiF024774 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 03:09:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S875cP008428; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:07:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S86wTc047886; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:06:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S86tTc047865 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:06:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.247.151]) by smail2.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 14193454 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 00:56:54 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:05:34 -0600 Message-ID: <040201c4149b$72fe95b0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <4065CD26.5880.696B9E1@localhost> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's a lovely book on eBay some of you will like--it's 18th century, too early for me. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3597205728&category=1 121 Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 28 03:28:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2S8S7iF024811 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 03:28:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S8QBcP009096; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:26:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S8QBTc054239; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:26:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S8Q8Tc054187 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:26:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC082B6A0090; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:25:44 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABF816F9018A; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:25:28 -0600 Message-ID: <00c301c4149e$5bf815f0$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <040201c4149b$72fe95b0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] book Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 03:26:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kim, I think this is a V&A or Bath book.... I know I saw it at one of the museums. Thank you anyways! I am looking for books out of copyright: US: pre-1923 France: pre-1934 UK: pre-1904 I am putting this books online in my library. I have such a back-up right now to put on the web. One of my graphic artist intern went crazy this weekend and prepped the images for three books. We are also making a costume encyclopedia of over 2,000 costume descriptions, and several misc. articles scattered across the 19th and 20th Century. We are also translating my website into French, Spanish, and Italian. We have a huge teams working on these projects. And me... I am putting together statistics tonight as to what countries have visited my website in the past four months. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 28 03:34:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2S8Y2iF024831 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 03:34:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S8UqcP009253; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:30:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S8UqTc055797; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:30:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S8UnTc055759 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:30:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD24178800AA; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:30:28 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD1462E01D0; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:30:12 -0600 Message-ID: <00c801c4149f$05ce0580$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <040201c4149b$72fe95b0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> <00c301c4149e$5bf815f0$0200a8c0@MOM> Subject: Re: [h-cost] book Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 03:31:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh my gosh! I am sorry! I thought Kim was talking to me off the list. My apologies. I was crunching numbers and not looking above to see where it came from. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 28 04:44:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2S9iGiF000632 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 04:44:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S9hVcP011101; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:43:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S9hTTc078698; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:43:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2S9hPTc078635 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:43:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fb8.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.184]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 493BE5EE05D for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:43:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003e01c414a9$28606110$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:43:42 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] my dream costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2S9iGiF000632 Status: RO Hi the list. It has ben incredible, i actually got several emails with people who wanted to help me with my dream costume. I found the lady friday, she is young, and has the finest meassures for this dress. It is Alexia S. Jacobs from New York. But i want to thank all you others who emailed me with propositions, it was very nice of you. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 28 08:13:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2SDDNiF005777 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 08:13:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2SDCecP016681; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 06:12:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2SDBKTc042487; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 06:11:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2SDBGTc042471 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 06:11:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2SD3wE03951 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 05:03:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B7ZxF-00072O-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 05:03:57 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] my dream costume Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 06:04:05 -0700 Message-ID: <005801c414c5$263496b0$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <003e01c414a9$28606110$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, do keep us informed on the project...it sounds delightful! > > Hi the list. > It has ben incredible, i actually got several emails with people who wanted to help > me with my dream costume. > I found the lady friday, she is young, and has the finest meassures for this dress. It > is Alexia S. Jacobs from New York. But i want to thank all you others who emailed > me with propositions, it was very nice of you. > > Bjarne > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 28 08:31:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2SDVEiF006653 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 08:31:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2SDS5cP017023; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 06:28:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2SDQsTc047429; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 06:26:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2SDQrTc047417 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 06:26:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.232]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B7ZnQ-0007Qn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 04:53:48 -0800 Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B7ZnQ-0005rM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 04:53:48 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Merchant from Spain Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 05:53:56 -0700 Message-ID: <005601c414c3$bb152580$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You might also want to contact Bob Trump directly. He is very responsive to emails and his books are available directly from him. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 28 10:55:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2SFtQiF008727 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 10:55:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2SFq9cP022044; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 08:52:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2SFq6Tc096967; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 08:52:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2SFq2Tc096929 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 08:52:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce ([64.0.176.13]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:51:52 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Searching for a Supplier.... Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:51:56 -0600 Message-ID: <003701c414dc$99615530$0db00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <005901c41226$4661faa0$cb6afea9@sherry> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Mar 2004 15:51:52.0750 (UTC) FILETIME=[96BC4CE0:01C414DC] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also I have seen at my LNS (Local Needlework Shop) a rather large color sample display of wools and their colors for both companies- you might benefit from contacting them about acquiring their sample packet/display- though it might be not cheap it could pay off for a long and involved project in time saved! Just my .02 lira, Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Shane & Sheridan Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:02 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Searching for a Supplier.... > Greetings, > > > > I am from the Interior of BC and am looking for a supplier of Appleton or > Paternayan Needlework wools. I would prefer someone in Canada who does mail > order (in BC or at the Coast would make my year!). I have a very ambitious > project I have almost completely passed the planning stages with, and am > very looking forward to the practical work. If anyone could help, please > contact me off-list if you prefer. > > > > Thank you for your time. > > > > L. Giacinta Cocchetti > > jenpotts@shaw.ca > Hi! I just received this Monday my first order of Paternayan and DMC Medicis wool from a shop based in Ottawa. They were most helpful and prompt, and if you do not have a credit card, will take money orders. All I did was email them the colours and quantity, and they sent me back the total cost plus shipping. At the speed at which I received my order, it must have gone in the mail the same day my money order arrived at their shop! The only problem I have with their website is if you have no idea what the colour numbers are of the product you want to order, you will have no clue how to get what you want. What I ended up doing was finding a web-page that shows the colours as well as the numbers, writing down what I wanted, then ordering from the Canadian company. :-) So far I am a happy customer! Here is the page: http://www.cross-stitch.ca/index.html Here is the site I use to help pick my colours: http://www.independenceneedlepoint.com/ptpaternayanmain.htm There was only one glitch in this system, the colour you see on the monitor is not necessarily the same as what you get. :-) What I had thought was going to be a nice spice red, was actually a dark pumpkin orange. It will still be used, never fear, but now I know for next time. Hope this helps, and please pass on any other Canadian suppliers as you find them, I'm always looking as well. Sheridan (Sudbury, ON) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 28 13:09:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2SI9CiF009482 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:09:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2SI5ucP027188; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:05:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2SI5hTc046659; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:05:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2SI5fTc046607 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:05:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Georgeren2@aol.com) Received: from Georgeren2@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.e6.4aea4468 (4214) for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:05:34 -0500 (EST) From: Georgeren2@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:05:33 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Merchant from Spain To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5007 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hopefully not to sound stupid.... Who is Bob Trump and how do you get in contact with him? Thank you Patrice _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 28 14:41:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2SJfeiF010458 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:41:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2SJevcP001331; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:40:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2SJerTc084542; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:40:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2SJenTc084468 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:40:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be93.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.147]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7D43E47FE58 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:40:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002e01c414fc$9a0e9ea0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:40:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Grande Habit de Cour. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2SJfeiF010458 Status: RO This weekend i have done a lot of research and documentation about my "dreamdress" It is so fortunate that there is a lot to go for when i am going to start this projekt. I shall make a site about it, when i get the time, The lady in the portrait is Charlotte Louise von Plessen. She was married to the "Chief of the kings stables" dont know the english title, but in danish it is "Overstaldmester" She also was Lady in Waiting for the queen, Sophie Magdalena. The queen was painted in this kind of courtdress in 1764, so i guess that the portrait of Louise von Plessen must be from this time two, because her dress is the same as the queens, except that she has no lace, but only sheer fabric. Then i also am so fortunate, that the swedes has preserved the coronation dress of Ulrika Eleonora. And Janet Arnold made a pattern draft of this dress, in the cut of womens clothes. Ulrika Eleonoras dress has a huge pannier, but my dress has only a medium sized pannier. But fortunately, the bodice is compleately the same, so i can use that. The style is the french courtdress wich was used on the continent, not in England where they used the Mantua. It shall be very very interresting, when i make the court train, because i must make it so that it looks like a stuffed bumroll in the front. I almost got the idea that it was a stuffed bumroll lying on top of the dress, but noone would believe this, so i have surrendered, it is the train wich drapes the way so that it looks like............. Finally but not last, i am going to bath next friday and i shall go to the costume museum and droll over the very rare and unique courtdress they have there in miniature, it is a dolls dress. I shall make a lot of sketching, you bet! The bodice is a court bodice :-) Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 29 05:42:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2TAgJiF010404 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 05:42:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2TAdncP012751; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:39:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2TAdcTc035712; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:39:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2TAdTTc035590 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:39:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i2TAdDT03389.; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:39:13 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:39:13 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:38:47 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Subcribe help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try again. Perhaps there was a problem connecting you to the website? Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> roscelin@pcez.com 27/03/2004 02:36:38 >>> Greetings, My other half wants to join the mailing list, but I can't recall how to subscribe. I did try to use the link at the bottom of the page, but alas nothing happend. Help please? Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 29 10:29:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2TFT2iF012266 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:29:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2TFQQcP026321; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 08:26:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2TFQITc050201; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 08:26:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2TFQFTc050126 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 08:26:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:26:09 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Beta Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:26:03 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Merchant from Spain X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Catherine, I just might drop him an email, as I have found his work to be inspirational for my goals. Would you mind however putting Calontir into American locations? I do not do SCA, so I am not familiar with SCA locations. Thank you. Kimiko >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oooops, sorry :). As some other folks have mentioned, Calontir is very central to the continental United States. It is the states of Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska and Iowa, plus the NW corner of Arkansas. The Lilies War is at a lake campground north of Kansas City. Website: http://calontir.sca.org/lilieswar/lilieswar.html Site is a little primitive but there is a lot of room for camping. Generally a laid back war for anyone who might me interested. If you want to come and merchant, drop me an email, I'm the merchant coordinator this year :). And to keep this on costume content, we have several merchants for trim and fabric (Calontir Trims, Pillaged Village, Sewing Central), not to mention while you were in town you could visit a couple of good stores we have in KC (Cy's, Kaplan's) or LV Outlet (an unclaimed/damaged freight place that gets a lot of fabric) just up the road in Leavenworth. Then there are the book merchants................ Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 29 11:13:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2TGDsiF012540 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:13:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2TG4ScP029611; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:04:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2TG4Q7h074548; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:04:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2TG4K7h074512 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:04:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA19718 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:04:14 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:04:14 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <00c801c4149f$05ce0580$0200a8c0@MOM> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Anne Boleyn Biography X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For fans of everything Tudor on this list, I just got word that the book I preordered from Amazon.co.uk has shipped. Anne Boleyn: A New Life of England's Tragic Queen by Joanna Denny 400 pgs, Portrait (Books) I will post a review of it when it arrives if anyone is interested and I have read it which the book should arrive by the end of this week or early next and it will probably take me a couple of evenings to devour it. Let me know if you want to see a review or if there are any illustrations and/or costume illustrations, not in any other Anne biog(and I have read about all of them over the years). Of course list members on the other side of the pond have a head start on me so if someone gets this book and wants to review it.... By the way, the latest book on Hans Holbein has arrived at my desk. Haven't opened it yet, but will have a quick look over lunch. Cindy Abel brujne@creighton.edu _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 29 11:20:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2TGKfiF012592 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:20:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2TGBLcP000355; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:11:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2TGBI7h078970; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:11:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2TGBG7h078906 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:11:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Os66rZAprr8KnekPM8q7PFM=">; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 08:10:47 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JRWC9MEE; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 08:10:47 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 06:56:45 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Box loom Message-ID: <20040329.080946.1556.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-5,7-30 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you find any, could you please post them? I'm not sure I've ever seen one. Thanks, Arlys On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:20:27 +0100 Deredere Galbraith writes: > Hi, > > I am looking for pictures/paintings of 14th century or earlier box > looms > for band weaving. > I have seen at least one painting with a box loom but I can't find > it > anymore and I don't know from wat period it was. > A friend of mine wants to make one for reanactment but she wants > proof > that they had box looms. > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 29 12:39:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2THdbiF014140 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:39:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2THZrcP008645; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:35:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2THZm7h039912; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:35:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2THZg7i039840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:35:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2THYnup015662 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:34:49 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:34:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40685E6B.8060900@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:35:39 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Box loom References: <20040329.080946.1556.2.Cley@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20040329.080946.1556.2.Cley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I am looking for pictures/paintings of 14th century or earlier box >>looms >>for band weaving. I've only seen one image I can think of, and it's a 15th century tapestry -- probably too late for your search. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Memory is the second thing that goes, right after something else, but I can't remember what. -- Mike Andrews _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 29 13:59:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2TIxtiF015016 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:59:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2TItZcP019686; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:55:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2TItT7h000103; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:55:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2TItR7h099864 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:55:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0973.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.206]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E20C19FB3F for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:55:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40687114.9020109@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:55:16 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Box loom References: <20040329.080946.1556.2.Cley@juno.com> <40685E6B.8060900@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have found one other 15th century picture too. I wonder if they had box looms before the 15th cenrury. Cynthia Virtue wrote: >> I am looking for pictures/paintings of 14th century or earlier box >> >>> looms >>> for band weaving. >> > > I've only seen one image I can think of, and it's a 15th century > tapestry -- probably too late for your search. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 29 15:19:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2TKJriF015802 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:19:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2TKAlcP026583; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:10:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2TKAg7h052683; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:10:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2TKAc7h052619 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:10:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp32.pop1.net [209.102.125.82]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA26131 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:11:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp32.pop1.net [209.102.125.82] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <406882BB.2030700@pcez.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:10:35 -0800 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Subcribe help References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, we have the problem corrected now. Roscelin Kate M Bunting wrote: >Try again. Perhaps there was a problem connecting you to the website? > > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 29 21:03:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2U23IiF020813 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:03:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U1vmcP026839; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:57:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U1vZ7h085936; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:57:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U1vV7h085870 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:57:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A3E7C8600B8; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:56:55 -0600 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A3AB53D00B6; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:55:55 -0600 Message-ID: <00d601c415fa$2df82160$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:56:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Spring Online Classes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2U23IiF020813 Status: RO We have some online classes at the Costume Classroom, http://www.costumeclassroom.com that I thought you all might be interested in. Today the "Beginning Flat Patternmaking: A Bustle Period Bodice" class started. We still have opening for students. The last day to enter this class is Friday. April classes open for registration: ***Elizabethan Glove Making: Make your own pair of gloves ***Cowgirls And Shady Ladies Fashion History May classes open for registration: ***Fancy Work for Friends and Fairs: Small Period Sewing Projects 1859-1889 We have some classes that are taught on the Winter/Spring semester time frame. The last day to enroll in these classes is April 15. These classes are self-paced. The class needs to be completed by May 31. Winter / Spring Semester Classes: *** The Elegant Lady: Make Your Own 1910s Tea Gown *** Sentimental Journey: Make Your Own 1940s Swing Dress *** Making a Late 18th Century Wardrobe: Caraco Jacket *** A Victorian Lady: Make Your Own Bustle Era Skirt *** A Victorian Lady: Make Your Own Early Bustle Era Bodice You may start registering for the Summer / Autumn semester classes. Classes start June 1. Again, the classes are self paced. The last day to enroll in these classes is Nov. 15. These classes are self-paced. The class needs to be completed by Dec. 31. Summer / Autumn Semester Classes: *** Dressing Jane Austen: Make Your Own Regency Gown *** Fashion Finery: Make an Heirloom 1914 Dress and Underdress *** Parasols from the Victorian/Edwardian eras- History- Identification- Restoration and Replication Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 29 21:50:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2U2oniF021034 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:50:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U2lRcP000332; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:47:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U2lP7h009812; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:47:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U2lN7i009802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:47:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net (acty5111.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.250.111]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2U2lMi6015785 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:47:22 -0500 Message-ID: <4068DFB2.2030406@dandy.net> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:47:14 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <003701c414dc$99615530$0db00040@softwareinnovation.com> In-Reply-To: <003701c414dc$99615530$0db00040@softwareinnovation.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A source for books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. I went to one of the major East Coast (US) antiques shows on Saturday. I had forgotten a while back to post this info, but there is a book publisher that has a booth there, and I wanted to pass on this resource to all of you on the list. The company is Schiffer Publishing (www.schifferbooks.com) They are in Atglen, PA, and besides all of the titles they publish on antiques, they have a great many fashion-related titles such as "Toile: The storied fabrics of Europe and America" "Japanese Children's Fabrics 1950s-1970s" "Cher doll and her celebrity friends: with fashions by Bob Mackie" "Blueprints of Fashion: Home sewing Patterns of the 1950s" "The Fashionable Fan" "Hathaway Shirts: Their History, Design & Advertising" "Men's Clothing and Fabrics of the 1890s" and "Fashions and Accessories: 1840-1980". Besides the direct clothing books (dozens covering many periods), there are books on accessories alone, including hats, shoes, buttons, jewelry, etc. I can't speak for the accuracy of the works, or how useful they may be to anyone on this list, but I thought I'd mention them as a resource nonetheless. BTW, they are apparently looking for authors to publish their work with them. You can go to the website, or send a note to schifferbk@aol.com. Hope this is of some use to any of you out there. Cheers, Mike T. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 29 22:18:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2U3I0iF021144 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:18:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U3H9cP002363; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:17:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U3H77h024155; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:17:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U3H57h024123 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:17:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from pcez.com (pdx-ppp218.pop1.net [209.102.127.53]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA08786 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:17:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp218.pop1.net [209.102.127.53] claimed to be pcez.com Message-ID: <4068E6AF.3010905@pcez.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:17:03 -0800 From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Shawls/Wraps X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi everyone, When did shawls or wraps come into fashion? My personna is a 14th C., French lady. I do know mantles (?) were used, but wasn't sure about any other form of wrap was used. Thanks for the help. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 29 23:35:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2U4ZoiF022346 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:35:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U4Z2cP007216; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:35:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U4Yx7h061531; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:34:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U4Yv7h061482 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:34:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Georgeren2@aol.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.228]) by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (v93.12) with ESMTP id RELAYIN2-34068f7b5cf; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:29:41 -0500 Received: from Georgeren2@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.1da.1db74e1e (3996) for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:24:24 -0500 (EST) From: Georgeren2@aol.com Message-ID: <1da.1db74e1e.2d9a5078@aol.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:24:24 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Merchant from Spain To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5007 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's me again. Just asking the question if anyone knows where I can get a dress with the patterns of Spanish Great Sleeves. Any information would greatly be appreciated. Thanks Patrice _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 01:06:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2U667iF023294 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 01:06:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U60scP011199; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:00:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U60b7h097426; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:00:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net (starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U60Z7h097407 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:00:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.60.64.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.60.64] helo=HELENPINTO) by starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1B8Bpi-0003v4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:30:43 -0800 Message-ID: <015301c41618$21b9d6f0$403c9b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4068E6AF.3010905@pcez.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shawls/Wraps Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 00:30:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9eff9a5f431b7657a006a2b0902158feb23350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Roscelin- So I have a better idea of what to look for- are you considering a mantle to be a large article of clothing which covers everything from the shoulders to the floor or the top of the head to the floor? and a shawl to be a smaller item, say from the head or shoulders to thighs or knees? But both are flat and untailored and worn draped around the body, right? I'm searching paintings right now for another project, but I can keep an eye out and send you citations for anything I come across. -Helen/Aidan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roscelin" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:17 PM Subject: [h-cost] Shawls/Wraps > Hi everyone, > When did shawls or wraps come into fashion? My personna is a 14th > C., French lady. I do know mantles (?) were used, but wasn't sure about > any other form of wrap was used. > Thanks for the help. > > Roscelin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 01:51:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2U6priF023769 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 01:51:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U6pAcP012962; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:51:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U6p87h017112; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:51:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U6p77h017098 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:51:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-127-207.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.127.207]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U6p4bI018784 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 00:51:06 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040329224944.04c75100@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:50:58 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shawls/Wraps In-Reply-To: <015301c41618$21b9d6f0$403c9b04@HELENPINTO> References: <4068E6AF.3010905@pcez.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >So I have a better idea of what to look for- are you considering a mantle to >be a large article of clothing which covers everything from the shoulders to >the floor or the top of the head to the floor? and a shawl to be a smaller >item, say from the head or shoulders to thighs or knees? But both are flat >and untailored and worn draped around the body, right? >I'm searching paintings right now for another project, but I can keep an eye >out and send you citations for anything I come across. Check out the Byzantines and later Romans for flat and untailored draped garments (that aren't togas). CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 02:31:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2U7VZiF012358 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 02:31:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U7UpcP014553; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 00:30:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U7Un7h031776; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 00:30:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U7Uk7h031759 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 00:30:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B673E1D481 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 01:30:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p359.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.105]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 90D49D40A for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 01:30:45 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Merchant from Spain Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 01:31:00 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <1da.1db74e1e.2d9a5078@aol.com> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not sure, but doesn't Margo's patterns have a Spanish great sleeve as a selection? De -----Original Message----- It's me again. Just asking the question if anyone knows where I can get a dress with the patterns of Spanish Great Sleeves. Any information would greatly be appreciated. Thanks Patrice _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 04:34:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2U9YbiF019630 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 04:34:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U9WYcP017929; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 02:32:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U9WS7h077450; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 02:32:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2U9WM7h077372 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 02:32:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f53.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.83]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D729647FE31 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:32:14 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000d01c41639$eb432690$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:32:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] dreamdress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2U9YbiF019630 Status: RO Hi, Sorry to bother you, but wouldnt you know? The Castle wants to buy that dress from me!!! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 05:14:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2UAENiF020390 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 05:14:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UADecP019551; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 03:13:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UADc7h091687; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 03:13:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UADa7h091630 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 03:13:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0973.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.206]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51CE119FBF7 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:13:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40694845.8030206@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:13:25 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dreamdress References: <000d01c41639$eb432690$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cool!!! Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hi, >Sorry to bother you, but wouldnt you know? The Castle wants to buy that dress from me!!! > >Bjarne > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 06:37:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2UBbmiF021414 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 06:37:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UBYWcP022585; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 04:34:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UBYT7h019871; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 04:34:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.83.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UBYR7h019852 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 04:34:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF326482E1 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 06:34:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 25568-03 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 06:34:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 26A35482C6 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 06:34:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <087f01c4164a$f32a6790$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000d01c41639$eb432690$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dreamdress Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 06:34:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:32 AM Subject: [h-cost] dreamdress Hi, Sorry to bother you, but wouldnt you know? The Castle wants to buy that dress from me!!! Bjarne Oh, Bjarne, how WONDERFUL for you! Dianne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 07:21:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2UCLuiF021797 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:21:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UCLBcP023971; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 05:21:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UCL97h035599; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 05:21:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UCL47h035570 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 05:21:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2UCIgE23590 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 04:18:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B8ICY-0007cv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 04:18:42 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 05:18:54 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c41651$2b8f2520$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i2UCL47h035570 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Robert Trump X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mr. Trump can be reached at RWTrump@aol.com. He is the author of several books on Costuming using the Sartor drafting system and commentary on Janet Arnold's pattern 'issues'. His books are available directly through him. He is a former SCA member (a Laurel I believe) and currently works for the St. Louis Opera company. Briefly, the Sartor system is a method of taking a minimal set of measurements (for a man, not sure if he has done this for a woman) and extrapolating the rest of the measurements fairly accurately. (I have used it once for a very basic garment and it worked well.). Then he has a method of drafting period patterns from these measurements. I do not know the history of the Sartor system. I don't know if Bob created it or learned it elsewhere. Sg > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Georgeren2@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:06 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Merchant from Spain > > Hopefully not to sound stupid.... Who is Bob Trump and how do you get in > contact with him? > > Thank you > > Patrice > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 08:48:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2UDmGiF022740 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:48:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UDcGcP026958; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 06:38:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UDcB7h064706; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 06:38:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UDc87h064682 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 06:38:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sherylnd@kc.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com (CPE-65-30-107-115.kc.rr.com [65.30.107.115]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i2UDc2Hq014292 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:38:06 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20040330074005.00a03ec0@pop-server.kc.rr.com> X-Sender: sherylnd@pop-server.kc.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:41:00 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] dreamdress In-Reply-To: <000d01c41639$eb432690$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, they must know quality work when they see it. That's great! Sheryl N-D At 11:32 AM 3/30/04 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, >Sorry to bother you, but wouldnt you know? The Castle wants to buy that >dress from me!!! > >Bjarne > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 09:37:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2UEb1iF023513 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:37:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UEYqcP000139; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:34:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UEYp7h089989; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:34:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UEYn7h089980 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:34:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a254.in-tch.com [66.62.107.54]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i2UEBgM14306 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:11:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <40698657.7050900@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:38:15 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dreamdress References: <000d01c41639$eb432690$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000d01c41639$eb432690$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Before you've even made it? Wow! --Sue, charter member of Bjarne Drews Fan Club ;o) Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > Sorry to bother you, but wouldnt you know? The Castle wants to buy that dress from me!!! > > Bjarne > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 10:24:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2UFOxiF024254 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:24:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UFLWcP003364; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:21:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UFLV7h015483; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:21:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2UFLS7h015413 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:21:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OvKheoxNYSZdtrnkmgvVjHU=">; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:21:20 PST Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JRYUTSS8; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:21:20 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:05:13 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] dreamdress Message-ID: <20040330.072011.1676.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-24 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Congratulations! =) Arlys On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:32:28 +0200 "Bjarne og Leif Drews" writes: > > Hi, > Sorry to bother you, but wouldnt you know? The Castle wants to buy > that dress from me!!! > > Bjarne > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 10:29:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2UFTniF024281 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:29:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UFJecP003192; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:19:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UFJZ7h014314; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:19:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UFJP7h014235 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:19:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.131.43]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB7136EF4A for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:19:23 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:19:33 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Robert Trump Message-ID: <40691F85.2200.288FFFB@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000001c41651$2b8f2520$6a01a8c0@SG01> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Re: Bob Trump > He is a former SCA member (a Laurel I believe) and currently works for > the St. Louis Opera company. Briefly, the Sartor system is a method > of taking a minimal set of measurements (for a man, not sure if he has > done this for a woman) and extrapolating the rest of the measurements > fairly accurately. (I have used it once for a very basic garment and > it worked well.). Then he has a method of drafting period patterns > from these measurements. I do not know the history of the Sartor > system. I don't know if Bob created it or learned it elsewhere. Bob developed the system himself. It's named after his SCA name. (Master Robert Sartor von Pay Bas, aka RSVP). When he taught our Doublet workshop, he used the same system for the women as for the men. In terms of the doublet the difference that he had us do that week was to just not put a peascod belly on the women's doublets. (And we were told that we could do our collar backs as a separate piece rather than the collar and doublet back being one piece. I still did mine with the collar as part of the back instead of separate.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 10:45:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2UFjQiF024473 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:45:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UFVYcP004155; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:31:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UFVW7h021698; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:31:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net (starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UFVR7h021663 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:31:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.60.7] (helo=HELENPINTO) by starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1B8LD4-00027i-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:31:26 -0800 Message-ID: <010f01c4166c$0d90f7e0$073c9b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4068E6AF.3010905@pcez.com> <015301c41618$21b9d6f0$403c9b04@HELENPINTO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shawls/Wraps Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:30:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef681fec9c81311f1c11407e6db01c535e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Roscelin- All of the paintings/miniatures/illuminations can be found at the Web Gallery of Art: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/welcome.html Click on "Search Engine" and look for the works below. First of all, mantles are everywhere. By that, I mean a large over-garment, probably semi-circular, since it hits the ground evenly all around. They are colored, usually different than the gown underneath, and are worn over the head or over the shoulders. If over the head, sometimes the head is bare, sometimes it is over some sort of veiling, which is usually white. If over the shoulders, occasionally the head is bare, but more often there is some sort of headdress. The mantle just hangs, or else it is pinned, tied or even knotted to hold it in place; in many works, the women are managing the folds with their hands. I won't give citations for this because this garment is easy to find anywhere from the 11th-16th c., just about any country. On to smaller drapery. I'm going to rule out anything white worn around the head, neck, and shoulders as veils, wimples, and other assorted head wear, and just give you some citations for a shorter, colored, draped garment worn over the gown. Some look like the long mantles, only knee or thigh length; others look more like large rectangular shawls. I was looking at mostly 12-13th c. stuff last night; here's some I caught: 12c Spanish, Unknown Master (or the Master of Avila), Romanesque manuscript, "Scenes from the Life of Jesus", the Virgin and probably St. Anne, upper left, upper right, lower right sections, gold with border, blue with white pattern and border 1235, French miniaturist, Psalter of Blanche of Castile, woman (probably saint), on the left 1220, German miniaturist, Book of Prayers of Elizabeth of Hungary, probably the Virgin, top and bottom picture 1291, Pietro Cavallini, mosaic of the Annunciation, one end is clearly shown thrown over the shoulder in this one 1293, Pietro Cavallini, mosaic of the Nativity of the Virgin ca 1280, English miniaturist, Alfonso Psalter manuscript illumination, "Four Female Saints", saint in upper right ca 1270, Unknown Italian Master, "Virgin and Child Enthroned", another one with the wrap thrown over the shoulder And by accident, I found this interesting later one, where there are shawls worn in ways we're more accustomed to seeing: a Pieta by Andrea del Sarto, 1523. Look at the two women (saints) on the right- the one in the green dress has a small yellow shawl wrapped around her shoulders, and the woman in pink is wearing a greenish one over her right shoulder and just hanging down the front, and probably the back. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 11:29:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2UGTsiF025593 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:29:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UGS1cP009747; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UGRw7h060211; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:27:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:TTCPc/TdJ8zRfUNFgCKJ/bAByJA/sFiC@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UGRt7h060162 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:27:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i2UGRsXV023307 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:27:54 -0500 Message-Id: <200403301627.i2UGRsXV023307@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:27:32 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Robert Trump From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There was a system used in the 19thC, I think it was called the center point system. It sounds similar, only a few actual measurements were taken and the rest concluded from there. They may have been a length and a width, just two measurements. I remember hearing about it being used for men, don't know about it's use for women's wear in the 19thC. -Carol kat@grendal.rain.com said: > Re: Bob Trump > > He is a former SCA member (a Laurel I believe) and currently works for > > the St. Louis Opera company. Briefly, the Sartor system is a method > > of taking a minimal set of measurements (for a man, not sure if he has > > done this for a woman) and extrapolating the rest of the measurements > > fairly accurately. (I have used it once for a very basic garment and > > it worked well.). Then he has a method of drafting period patterns > > from these measurements. I do not know the history of the Sartor > > system. I don't know if Bob created it or learned it elsewhere. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 12:01:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2UH15iF025768 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:01:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UH0EcP013394; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:00:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UH077h084565; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:00:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gw2.it.unr.edu (gw2.it.unr.edu [134.197.101.146]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UH027h084522 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:00:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from daniel@fenwick.sparks.nv.us) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gw2.it.unr.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18346380B9 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:34:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from wrb2006alaptop (wrb2006a-laptop.ed.unr.edu [134.197.92.150]) by gw2.it.unr.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A376C380B6 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:34:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Daniel Fenwick" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Robert Trump Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:34:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <200403301627.i2UGRsXV023307@jefferson.patriot.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Thread-Index: AcQWdDS81cbDA6mRTiCBlfVUCDEdqwAAGCfQ Message-Id: <20040330163423.A376C380B6@gw2.it.unr.edu> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gw2.it.unr.edu Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just FYI, I found that while his system would work for an "average" person, I had to take each and every measurement to come up with a garment that I could actually wear. The calculations were off by as much as 1.5". However, his doublet pattern works very well once you have good measurements. Dan > There was a system used in the 19thC, I think it was > called the center point system. It sounds similar, only a > few actual measurements were taken and the rest concluded > from there. They may have been a length and a width, just > two measurements. I remember hearing about it being used for > men, don't know about it's use for women's wear in the 19thC. > > -Carol > > > kat@grendal.rain.com said: > > Re: Bob Trump > > > He is a former SCA member (a Laurel I believe) and > currently works > > > for the St. Louis Opera company. Briefly, the Sartor system is a > > > method of taking a minimal set of measurements (for a > man, not sure > > > if he has done this for a woman) and extrapolating the > rest of the > > > measurements fairly accurately. (I have used it once for a very > > > basic garment and it worked well.). Then he has a method of > > > drafting period patterns from these measurements. I do > not know the > > > history of the Sartor system. I don't know if Bob > created it or learned it elsewhere. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 15:40:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2UKeNiF027457 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:40:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UKcEcP004589; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:38:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UKcD7h049451; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:38:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UKc17h049332 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:38:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-206-3.cvip.net [129.8.206.3]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E4EB0AC for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:38:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040330123013.00b0d488@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:30:47 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Robert Trump In-Reply-To: <000001c41651$2b8f2520$6a01a8c0@SG01> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:18 AM 3/30/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Mr. Trump can be reached at RWTrump@aol.com. >He is the author of several books on Costuming using the Sartor drafting >system and commentary on Janet Arnold's pattern 'issues'. His books are >available directly through him. Thanks for providing the contact info. I am curious about his JA books. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 15:41:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2UKf6iF027463 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:41:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UKbJcP004499; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:37:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UKb97h048590; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:37:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UKb57h048548 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:37:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-206-3.cvip.net [129.8.206.3]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA4B1AEA3 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:37:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040330122202.00b0d488@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:25:58 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] Robert Trump In-Reply-To: <20040330163423.A376C380B6@gw2.it.unr.edu> References: <200403301627.i2UGRsXV023307@jefferson.patriot.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:34 AM 3/30/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Just FYI, I found that while his system would work for an "average" person, >I had to take each and every measurement to come up with a garment that I >could actually wear. The calculations were off by as much as 1.5". >However, his doublet pattern works very well once you have good >measurements. > >Dan I agree with you Dan. My husband has small round shoulders, and has a "prosperous" belly, and the system just did not work for his measurements in almost every area. It would probably work well for a "normal" sized man, but I have yet to measure any man who is "normal". However, I do like Trump's system for providing a starting length for the cape that will be going with the doublet and paned hose. It will hopefully provide a length that will be in proportion to my husband's "average" height. I will comment again if it does or does not, but that will be in a few months. Right now, it is sleeves then the new paned hose. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 17:32:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2UMWxiF027951 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:32:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UMTJcP014840; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:29:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UMTE7h033268; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:29:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2UMT87h033205 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:29:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2UMAIE24073 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:10:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B8RR3-000704-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:10:17 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Robert Trump Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:10:27 -0700 Message-ID: <004501c416a3$d0e14100$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <200403301627.i2UGRsXV023307@jefferson.patriot.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I kinda' suspected that there was some historical basis for it....and I wouldn't expect that it would fit exactly. But I know it allows a commercial costumer a reasonable fit that could actually be used as a fitting garment itself....I understand that is how Jose uses it.... > -----Original Message----- > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Robert Trump > > > There was a system used in the 19thC, I think it was called the center > point system. It sounds similar, only a few actual measurements were taken and > the rest concluded from there. They may have been a length and a width, just > two measurements. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 21:10:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2V2AkiF028720 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:10:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V28acP000168; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:08:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V28Ivq069131; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:08:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav37.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V28Evq069049 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:08:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:08:09 -0800 Received: from 66.130.164.16 by bay9-dav37.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 02:08:08 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.164.16] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:09:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Mar 2004 02:08:09.0167 (UTC) FILETIME=[033945F0:01C416C5] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT - Travelling in France X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, My parents are going to France in a couple of weeks and they're taking me with them. What is there that I should absolutely not miss, especially in Paris? We're already planning on going to Mont Saint-Michel, Bayeux, Saint-Malo, some of the Châteaux de la Loire, Languedoc (Carcassone, Toulouse, Minerve), Provence (Marseille), Côte-d'Azur (Nice), then back to Paris (Louvre, Montmartre, etc). There are so many things to see, I'd just like to know if there is some obscure museum we're likely to miss but that's worth the detour. Thank you for your help! Audrey _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 21:31:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2V2V0iF028804 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:31:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V2UKcP001422; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:30:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V2UJvq079935; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:30:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V2UGvq079877 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:30:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Georgeren2@aol.com) Received: from Georgeren2@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.8b.709fb97 (25508) for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:24:57 -0500 (EST) From: Georgeren2@aol.com Message-ID: <8b.709fb97.2d9b85f9@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:24:57 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Robert Trump To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5007 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO SG Thank you so much for the info. ;-) Patrice _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 21:39:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2V2dTiF028860 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:39:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V2bUcP001907; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:37:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V2bTvq083278; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:37:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V2bRvq083231 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:37:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from IceGirlNIN@aol.com) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 6.149.257c5b03 (4418) for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:32:13 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <149.257c5b03.2d9b87ad@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:32:13 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Travelling in France To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2V2dTiF028860 Status: RO In a message dated 3/30/2004 9:10:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: My parents are going to France in a couple of weeks and they're taking me with them. What is there that I should absolutely not miss, especially in Paris? We're already planning on going to Mont Saint-Michel, Bayeux, Saint-Malo, some of the Châteaux de la Loire, Languedoc (Carcassone, Toulouse, Minerve), Provence (Marseille), Côte-d'Azur (Nice), then back to Paris (Louvre, Montmartre, etc). There are so many things to see, I'd just like to know if there is some obscure museum we're likely to miss but that's worth the detour. Lucky you! My parents took me to France a few summers ago, and I adored it. I only got to Paris and two of the Chateaux in the Loire, but I'm sure that all of those stops are worth-while! In Paris, of course there's the Louvre, but there's also the Musee D'Orsailles (which I can't spell..)- it's a museum housed in an old train station (it's huge and made of glass, you probably can't miss it!). For medieval things, there's the museum where the Unicorn tapestries (A Mon Seul Desire and the others, depicting the five senses) are housed, though the rest of the muesum is mostly Roman baths and such. Montmartre is quite fun, especially if you have your picture done- if the artist is any good, you inadvertantly gain an audience! In the Loire Valley, you HAVE to see the Chateau Chambord, and Chenonceau is also quite nice. Of course, I think they're also quite far apart, though I could be wrong- all I remember about the in-transit parts was my father driving the minivan we rented for quite a long time before we got anywhere! Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 21:46:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2V2kBiF028899 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:46:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V2iCcP002414; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:44:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V2iBvq086571; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:44:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V2i9vr086461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:44:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2V2fko8004397 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:41:48 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040330183921.0250a710@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:43:59 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Travelling in France In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i2V2i9vr086461 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, if you're going to Toulouse, be sure to stop by Plaisance-du-Haute, a small town a dozen or so miles from Toulouse. Actually don't bother ... the only reason that I mention it is that my persona's mother came from there, or was it Plaisance (Piacenza) Italy?. Oh, well, I get confused about this SCA persona stuff . Jealously, Katie, who has never been to Europe At 09:09 PM 3/30/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Hi all, >My parents are going to France in a couple of weeks and they're taking me >with them. What is there that I should absolutely not miss, especially in >Paris? >We're already planning on going to Mont Saint-Michel, Bayeux, Saint-Malo, >some of the Châteaux de la Loire, Languedoc (Carcassone, Toulouse, Minerve), >Provence (Marseille), Côte-d'Azur (Nice), then back to Paris (Louvre, >Montmartre, etc). >There are so many things to see, I'd just like to know if there is some >obscure museum we're likely to miss but that's worth the detour. >Thank you for your help! >Audrey _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 22:04:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2V34ViF028988 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:04:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V32ZcP003753; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:02:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V32Yvq095543; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:02:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2V32Vvq095525 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:02:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kendra@tweedlebop.com) Received: from unknown (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.121.146.42 with login) by smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2004 03:02:31 -0000 Message-ID: <002701c416cc$8dbcb2f0$0202a8c0@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Travelling in France Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:02:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Make sure you get to the Musee de la Mode et du Textile, which is part of the Louvre but located OUTSIDE the Louvre -- the entrance is on the Rue de Rivoli. - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 22:33:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2V3XaiF029082 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:33:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V38ncP004222; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:08:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V38jvq098536; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:08:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from x11.quik.com (x11.quik.com [209.213.140.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V38ivq098527 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:08:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: (from root@localhost) by x11.quik.com (8.12.9-20030926/8.12.5) id i2V38i0r014073 for h-costume@indra.com.qbigmail; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:08:44 -0800 Received: from quik.com (x1.quik.com [216.176.27.101]) by x11.quik.com (8.12.9-20030926/8.12.5) with SMTP id i2V38ipt014065 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:08:44 -0800 Received: from 68.109.1.81 (QuikMail authenticated user ladyanne) by webmail.quik.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:08:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <2855.68.109.1.81.1080702510.squirrel@webmail.quik.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:08:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Travelling in France From: To: In-Reply-To: <149.257c5b03.2d9b87ad@aol.com> References: <149.257c5b03.2d9b87ad@aol.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: QuikMail (version 1.2.10) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > In Paris, of course there's the Louvre, but there's also the Musee > D'Orsailles (which I can't spell..)- it's a museum housed in an old > train station (it's huge and made of glass, you probably can't miss > it!). For medieval things, there's the museum where the Unicorn > tapestries (A Mon Seul Desire and the others, depicting the five > senses) are housed, though the rest of the muesum is mostly Roman baths > and such. Montmartre is quite fun, especially if you have your picture > done- if the artist is any good, you inadvertantly gain an audience! > The tapestries are La Dame et Licorn (sp?) and they are at the Cluny . The Roman part is in the basement but the rest of the museum is dedicated to the decorative arts of the middle ages and Renaissance. Love that place, Anne (born in Paris and been back numerous times) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 30 23:45:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2V4jUiF029590 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:45:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V4hXcP009609; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:43:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V4hTvq050884; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:43:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from email.accessus.net (email.accessus.net [209.145.128.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V4hQvq050843 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:43:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from axejudge@accessus.net) X-RAV-Header: Scanned Received: from [207.206.137.106] (HELO accessus.net) by email.accessus.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 220901663 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:43:20 -0600 Message-ID: <406A4C45.2050703@accessus.net> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:42:45 -0600 From: Karen Heim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020318 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Robert Trump References: <40691F85.2200.288FFFB@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > >Bob developed the system himself. It's named after his SCA name. >(Master Robert Sartor von Pay Bas, aka RSVP). > There are layers of humor in that name. There are a pair of muscles - the sartorius muscles - that cross one another such that they resemble a pair of scissors. They are sometimes referred to as the tailor's muscle. Karen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 00:31:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2V5V6iF029700 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 00:31:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V5RqcP011863; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:27:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V5Rmvq070809; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:27:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2V5Rlvq070798 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:27:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from afmmurphy@earthlink.net) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2V4vIE05855 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:57:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from 0-1pool121-32.nas8.somerville1.ma.us.da.qwest.net ([63.159.121.32] helo=earthlink.net) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B8Xmu-0001pe-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:57:17 -0800 Message-ID: <406A4FC2.2080201@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:57:38 -0500 From: AF Murphy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New BBC Costume Drama References: <160.2cc3b0b5.2d83a2be@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <160.2cc3b0b5.2d83a2be@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry, I know this was a few weeks ago, but... I hope I'm getting back onto this list, I've been elsewhere. I did an Importance of Being Ernest a few years ago, with a director who wanted to set it in the 1920's. I asked why - and she told me she didn't really know the reason, but that was always the image she had when she read the play. OK... that's actually valid... at least as a starting point... So I went through it, and I could see what she meant. The characters are constantly talking about modern young people who do not accept the constraints of the past... particularly independent young women. I can't tell you how often I'd read it, or how many productions I'd seen - I'd even built costumes for a previous one - and I'd never registered that as strongly. So I think that moving it a generation later did, in fact, throw a new light on a theme that was very much in the original. It worked beautifully. Anne AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > > > Of course Shakespeare is not the only playwright to "suffer" this. I once saw > a Moliere "The Learned Ladies" done 1830s. [It was perfect actually] > > The key is to find a period that fits what's already been written and not one > you have to force. Peter Sellars [the director, not comic actor] did two > Mozart operas in modern dress "Le Nozzi di Figaro" and "Don Gionvanni'. They suck > because even though he was clever with making the characters fit [too clever > if you ask me] the time period doesn't fit the works....which he woefully > misunderstood. That film of "Midsummer" doesn't work because...like...well...why is > it moved to Italy? How does that help? [I costumed an 1890s Midsummer...and > it can work mainly because of the sensuality vs. proper behavior...the nature > vs. civilization issues in the play] > > If you can find another time when the length of men's hair and youth vs. the > establishment are big issues, you could do "Hair" in that period. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 06:21:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VBLSiF024861 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:21:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VBKjcP023940; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 04:20:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VBKcvq011166; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 04:20:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mwinf0104.wanadoo.fr (smtp1.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VBKZvq011131 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 04:20:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from liara@wanadoo.fr) Received: from mathilde (AMontsouris-103-1-3-144.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.53.129.144]) by mwinf0104.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id DBFC31BFFFB3 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:02:27 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <007a01c4170f$b64aa4f0$90813551@mathilde> From: "Liara" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Travelling in France Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:02:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello Audrey! I'm French and I spent all my young life in Brittany (where Saint-Malo is...) before moving to Paris 4 years ago, so so feel free to ask me if you need anything or to mail me offlist if it sounds too OT (my personal adress is liara @wanadoo.fr) , I'll be glad to help you! Brittany is a wonderful place, renowned for its fabulous landscapes and its still strong Celtic culture, but then again I might be a little partial about it ;) Saint-Malo is a very nice city, the most famous corsairs and sailors all lived there. Not very far from Saint-Malo there's a medieval fortified city, Dinan (with a fabulous fair in July, too late for you I believe?). But if you like medieval cities, you won't be disappointed when you'll be visiting Carcassonne... ;) As for Paris, I second every suggestions that has been made, such as the Medieval Museum of Cluny, the Louvre and the Museum of Orsay, as well as the Musée de la Mode et du Textile which is currently displaying an exhibition on the designer Elsa Schiaparelli. There's also the Galliera Museum (Musée de la Mode de la Ville de Paris, full title ;)) which is running an exhibition called "Ouverture pour Inventaire", which means (if I'm correct?) : "Open for inventory". According to their website, it's a tour through their reserve collections. I should be visiting it this week-end, if you need more info about it. You should also consider visiting Versailles, it is well worth the trip, especially with the nice weather we have here at the time! ;) Then again, f you have a favorite period or a particuliar interest, tell me and I might find you more obscure places to visit ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" > Hi all, > > My parents are going to France in a couple of weeks and they're taking me > with them. What is there that I should absolutely not miss, especially in > Paris? > > We're already planning on going to Mont Saint-Michel, Bayeux, Saint-Malo, > some of the Châteaux de la Loire, Languedoc (Carcassone, Toulouse, Minerve), > Provence (Marseille), Côte-d'Azur (Nice), then back to Paris (Louvre, > Montmartre, etc). > > There are so many things to see, I'd just like to know if there is some > obscure museum we're likely to miss but that's worth the detour. > > Thank you for your help! > > Audrey > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 06:25:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VBPwiF024871 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:25:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VBO5cP024092; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 04:24:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VBO5vq012414; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 04:24:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VBNwvq012317 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 04:24:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beeb.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.235]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B17AE5EE08E for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:23:52 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000a01c41712$b51503c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:24:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i2VBPwiF024871 Status: RO Hi the list, Surfed on Ninyamikhailas website and guess what! She has made, as i suggested when i came back last year from seein the effigy corset, that the stomacher piece lyes on top of the wheel farthingale. ........... I Told You! Take a look: http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Elizabethan.html And take a look of this stunning piede she has made: http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Elizabethan.html A copy of the famous embroidered forepart with the whalefish. Whow She is the most talented costume maker i know. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 06:31:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VBVFiF024887 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:31:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VBS2cP024174; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 04:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VBS1vq013765; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 04:28:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VBRwvq013734 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 04:27:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beeb.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.235]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E70AA26288C for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:27:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001001c41713$4298bca0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <007a01c4170f$b64aa4f0$90813551@mathilde> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Travelling in France Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:28:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, now you are french perhaps you knew about the place called "Fulgence collektion" in Paris. In a very beautifull book i have about silk, there are stunning beautifull silks from there. Is it open to the public? I am travelling to Paris in august or september Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liara" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Travelling in France > > Hello Audrey! > > I'm French and I spent all my young life in Brittany (where Saint-Malo > is...) before moving to Paris 4 years ago, so so feel free to ask me if you > need anything or to mail me offlist if it sounds too OT (my personal adress > is liara @wanadoo.fr) , I'll be glad to help you! > > Brittany is a wonderful place, renowned for its fabulous landscapes and its > still strong Celtic culture, but then again I might be a little partial > about it ;) > Saint-Malo is a very nice city, the most famous corsairs and sailors all > lived there. Not very far from Saint-Malo there's a medieval fortified city, > Dinan (with a fabulous fair in July, too late for you I believe?). But if > you like medieval cities, you won't be disappointed when you'll be visiting > Carcassonne... ;) > > As for Paris, I second every suggestions that has been made, such as the > Medieval Museum of Cluny, the Louvre and the Museum of Orsay, as well as the > Musée de la Mode et du Textile which is currently displaying an exhibition > on the designer Elsa Schiaparelli. > There's also the Galliera Museum (Musée de la Mode de la Ville de Paris, > full title ;)) which is running an exhibition called "Ouverture pour > Inventaire", which means (if I'm correct?) : "Open for inventory". According > to their website, it's a tour through their reserve collections. I should be > visiting it this week-end, if you need more info about it. > You should also consider visiting Versailles, it is well worth the trip, > especially with the nice weather we have here at the time! ;) > > Then again, f you have a favorite period or a particuliar interest, tell me > and I might find you more obscure places to visit ;) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" > > > > Hi all, > > > > My parents are going to France in a couple of weeks and they're taking me > > with them. What is there that I should absolutely not miss, especially in > > Paris? > > > > We're already planning on going to Mont Saint-Michel, Bayeux, Saint-Malo, > > some of the Châteaux de la Loire, Languedoc (Carcassone, Toulouse, > Minerve), > > Provence (Marseille), Côte-d'Azur (Nice), then back to Paris (Louvre, > > Montmartre, etc). > > > > There are so many things to see, I'd just like to know if there is some > > obscure museum we're likely to miss but that's worth the detour. > > > > Thank you for your help! > > > > Audrey > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 07:05:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VC5kiF025064 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:05:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VC3fcP024949; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:03:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VC3dvq027182; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:03:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.83.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VC3Yvq027151 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:03:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 084F8482F4 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:03:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 30393-07 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:03:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4292A482E8 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:03:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <01fe01c41718$2e03c730$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Travelling in France Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:03:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you go to the Chateau de Chambord, pictures, please please please? Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:09 PM Subject: [h-cost] OT - Travelling in France > Hi all, > > My parents are going to France in a couple of weeks and they're taking me > with them. What is there that I should absolutely not miss, especially in > Paris? > > We're already planning on going to Mont Saint-Michel, Bayeux, Saint-Malo, > some of the Châteaux de la Loire, Languedoc (Carcassone, Toulouse, Minerve), > Provence (Marseille), Côte-d'Azur (Nice), then back to Paris (Louvre, > Montmartre, etc). > > There are so many things to see, I'd just like to know if there is some > obscure museum we're likely to miss but that's worth the detour. > > Thank you for your help! > > Audrey > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 08:44:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VDixiF025421 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:44:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VDi0cP028412; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VDhvvq068345; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:43:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav28.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VDhtvq068297 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:43:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katdevereaux@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:26:22 -0800 Received: from 207.2.164.194 by bay1-dav28.adinternal.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:26:22 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [207.2.164.194] X-Originating-Email: [katdevereaux@hotmail.com] X-Sender: katdevereaux@hotmail.com From: "Katharine Devereaux" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT - Travelling in France Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:26:22 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c41723$c20f66e0$7900000a@govolution.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Mar 2004 13:26:22.0789 (UTC) FILETIME=[C2833750:01C41723] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i2VDhtvq068297 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Audrey, You are very lucky! A few years ago, I spent 3 weeks in and around Paris. I would highly recommend the National Manufacturer of Gobelins. This is a modern day tapestry manufacturer that currently produces tapestries and rugs for museums, royalty, government, etc. They offer a tour that takes you through the process and you can see the people working by hand to produce beautiful tapestries and rugs. The technique is almost the same as it has been over the last few hundred years. The tour is in French, but I had no problem getting the gist of what was being said and could watch the workers at their craft(I don’t speak French at all). http://www.ile-de-france-paris.com/francilien/visites/PCUIDF0000000023.h tml. This is the link that states the address, hours, and cost of entry. I also went to Madrid on this trip and it was very different to visit the Tapestry museum of Madrid. They work on the same types of products, but Gobelins was much more modern and lighter. The biggest difference was that the workers in Madrid smoked throughout their working day in the building, next to and while they were weaving. Enjoy! Kim - who would move to Paris in a heartbeat if she could find a job there... Kimberly Hulse SCA: Katharine Devereaux -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Audrey Bergeron-Morin Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:09 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] OT - Travelling in France Hi all, My parents are going to France in a couple of weeks and they're taking me with them. What is there that I should absolutely not miss, especially in Paris? We're already planning on going to Mont Saint-Michel, Bayeux, Saint-Malo, some of the Châteaux de la Loire, Languedoc (Carcassone, Toulouse, Minerve), Provence (Marseille), Côte-d'Azur (Nice), then back to Paris (Louvre, Montmartre, etc). There are so many things to see, I'd just like to know if there is some obscure museum we're likely to miss but that's worth the detour. Thank you for your help! Audrey _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 08:56:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VDuRiF025450 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:56:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VDsVcP028885; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:54:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VDsUvq073195; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:54:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VDsSvq073178 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:54:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beeb.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.235]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 92C6647FE89 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:54:27 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001301c41727$b4764630$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000901c41723$c20f66e0$7900000a@govolution.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Travelling in France Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:54:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Katharine, Perhaps you looked at the tapestries they made for our castle Christiansborg? They were a gift for our queen and they had hired an artist called Bjørn Nørgaard to make the history of Denmark in big tapestries. They used very beautifull vivid colours and i think they worked with these tapestries for 5 years. It was Gobelins who made these. They finished the tapestries last year and they are hanging at Christiansborg now. Bjarne from a Copenhagen with spring. The stork is arrived to Denmark. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katharine Devereaux" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:26 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT - Travelling in France > Audrey, > > You are very lucky! A few years ago, I spent 3 weeks in and around > Paris. I would highly recommend the National Manufacturer of Gobelins. > This is a modern day tapestry manufacturer that currently produces > tapestries and rugs for museums, royalty, government, etc. They offer a > tour that takes you through the process and you can see the people > working by hand to produce beautiful tapestries and rugs. The technique > is almost the same as it has been over the last few hundred years. The > tour is in French, but I had no problem getting the gist of what was > being said and could watch the workers at their craft(I don't speak > French at all). > > http://www.ile-de-france-paris.com/francilien/visites/PCUIDF0000000023.h > tml. This is the link that states the address, hours, and cost of entry. > > I also went to Madrid on this trip and it was very different to visit > the Tapestry museum of Madrid. They work on the same types of products, > but Gobelins was much more modern and lighter. The biggest difference > was that the workers in Madrid smoked throughout their working day in > the building, next to and while they were weaving. > > Enjoy! > > Kim - who would move to Paris in a heartbeat if she could find a job > there... > > Kimberly Hulse > SCA: Katharine Devereaux > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Audrey Bergeron-Morin > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:09 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] OT - Travelling in France > > Hi all, > > My parents are going to France in a couple of weeks and they're taking > me > with them. What is there that I should absolutely not miss, especially > in > Paris? > > We're already planning on going to Mont Saint-Michel, Bayeux, > Saint-Malo, > some of the Châteaux de la Loire, Languedoc (Carcassone, Toulouse, > Minerve), > Provence (Marseille), Côte-d'Azur (Nice), then back to Paris (Louvre, > Montmartre, etc). > > There are so many things to see, I'd just like to know if there is some > obscure museum we're likely to miss but that's worth the detour. > > Thank you for your help! > > Audrey > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 10:06:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VF6tiF025739 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:06:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VF3ccP002964; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:03:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VF3Rvq008802; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:03:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VF3Pvq008766 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:03:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.54]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B8fKA-0004p0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:00:06 -0800 Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B8fK9-0005LP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:00:05 -0800 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizabethan Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:00:21 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01c41720$2029a910$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <000a01c41712$b51503c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, I wonder if the animals are painted or embroidered. I think I had read that they were painted.... Awesome! > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 4:24 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan > > Hi the list, > Surfed on Ninyamikhailas website and guess what! She has made, as i suggested > when i came back last year from seein the effigy corset, that the stomacher piece > lyes on top of the wheel farthingale. ........... I Told You! > Take a look: http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Elizabethan.html > And take a look of this stunning piede she has made: > http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Elizabethan.html > A copy of the famous embroidered forepart with the whalefish. Whow > She is the most talented costume maker i know. > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 11:16:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VGGFiF030286 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:16:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VGDxcP009082; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:13:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VGDtvq055179; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:13:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web61106.mail.yahoo.com (web61106.mail.yahoo.com [216.155.196.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2VGDrvq055050 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:13:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040331160703.87352.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [146.82.36.102] by web61106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:07:03 PST Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:07:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000a01c41712$b51503c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Inquiry on pearl colors and sizes in 14th century X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings! Yes, I'm coming out of de-lurking and wedding preps to ask a question I haven't been able to figure out. The books I've been able to get my hands on don't have clear color pictures, or merely state pearls (freshwater, glass and so forth) with no commentary on the color or shape/size and well, my monitor at either work or home is not the best for determining colors. (Yes, I went to Grizel's Bead site) My overgown is being embellished with embroidery, spangles and pearls, similar to the descriptions I found in _Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince_ and _Medieval Embroiderers_. I have some pretty spangles and so forth, but am confused on pearl colors and sizes that would be available (or preferred) in England/Wales for the 14th Century (I'll take later 13th too). I had thought white or cream only with most being 8mm round/potato size, but my negotiator is trying to talk me into some more, well unusual colors, like a coppery color or a peacock and some of the more rice-type as part of the things 'provided' by the groom and his family. My instinct is to go for some of the 8mm rounds and a few of the 4mm rice (they are almost round/potato shaped) in white against the pink wool. (It's almost an ashes-of-roses color, with a bit of peach-type hue-very interesting shade - thanks to Robin!) Suggestions, input, and pointers are all invited. Thank you, Angharad (Jonnalyhn Wolfcat) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 11:21:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VGLHiF030306 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:21:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VGIxcP009553; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:18:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VGIwvq058694; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:18:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav44.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VGIqvq058592 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:18:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:18:46 -0800 Received: from 66.130.164.16 by bay9-dav44.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:18:46 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.164.16] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" , Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:20:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Mar 2004 16:18:46.0771 (UTC) FILETIME=[D8019C30:01C4173B] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Embellished foreparts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm looking for images of embellished foreparts (beaded/pearled/embroidered/etc). I can almost only find hyper symmetrical designs on Elizabeth's gown, or they're wide guards or trim, or I don't see enough to make out the design. So, do you have a portrait in mind that I could look at for inspiration? Thank you, Audrey _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 11:39:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VGdTiF030394 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:39:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VGW8cP010798; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:32:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VGW5vq068486; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:32:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14004.mail.yahoo.com (web14004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2VGW2vq068442 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:32:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040331163202.45847.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:32:02 BST Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:32:02 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inquiry on pearl colors and sizes in 14th century To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20040331160703.87352.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No to peacock pearls. That is a very modern treatment applied to freshwater pearls.Most of the peaches and pinks are also artificial. Cream to white is the most common natural color for freshwater and saltwater pearls. Black pearls were very rare in the 14th century and highly prized. Think of the color of hematite. Freshwater pearls were numerous in Scotland before being depleted in the 17th century. many of these were potato or nearly round. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pearl/time.html http://www.imperial-deltah.com/visitors/visitors_history_of_pearls1.htm http://www.pearloasis.com/pearlhistory.html --- Angharad ver' Reynulf wrote: > Greetings! > > Yes, I'm coming out of de-lurking and wedding preps > to > ask a question I haven't been able to figure out. > The > books I've been able to get my hands on don't have > clear color pictures, or merely state pearls > (freshwater, glass and so forth) with no commentary > on > the color or shape/size and well, my monitor at > either > work or home is not the best for determining colors. > (Yes, I went to Grizel's Bead site) > > My overgown is being embellished with embroidery, > spangles and pearls, similar to the descriptions I > found in _Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince_ > and > _Medieval Embroiderers_. I have some pretty > spangles > and so forth, but am confused on pearl colors and > sizes that would be available (or preferred) in > England/Wales for the 14th Century (I'll take later > 13th too). I had thought white or cream only with > most being 8mm round/potato size, but my negotiator > is > trying to talk me into some more, well unusual > colors, > like a coppery color or a peacock and some of the > more rice-type as part of the things 'provided' by > the > groom and his family. > > My instinct is to go for some of the 8mm rounds and > a > few of the 4mm rice (they are almost round/potato > shaped) in white against the pink wool. (It's almost > an ashes-of-roses color, with a bit of peach-type > hue-very interesting shade - thanks to Robin!) > > Suggestions, input, and pointers are all invited. > > Thank you, > > Angharad > (Jonnalyhn Wolfcat) > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on > time. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ WIN FREE WORLDWIDE FLIGHTS - nominate a cafe in the Yahoo! Mail Internet Cafe Awards www.yahoo.co.uk/internetcafes _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 11:50:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VGo6iF030439 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:50:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VGk1cP012248; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VGjvvq078908; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:45:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav31.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VGjuvq078828 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:45:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:45:51 -0800 Received: from 66.130.164.16 by bay9-dav31.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:45:51 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.164.16] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <01fe01c41718$2e03c730$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Travelling in France Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:47:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Mar 2004 16:45:51.0345 (UTC) FILETIME=[A053EE10:01C4173F] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > If you go to the Chateau de Chambord, pictures, please please please? > > Dianne I'll see if we get there and if we do I'll try to take pictures. I'm usually not a picture girl :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 11:55:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VGtaiF030450 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:55:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VGndcP012615; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:49:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VGncvq081550; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:49:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav38.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.95]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VGnZvq081471 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:49:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:32:15 -0800 Received: from 66.130.164.16 by bay9-dav38.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:32:15 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.164.16] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040330183921.0250a710@mail.katiesorchids.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Travelling in France Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:33:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Mar 2004 16:32:15.0248 (UTC) FILETIME=[B9E56900:01C4173D] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Well, if you're going to Toulouse, be sure to stop by Plaisance-du-Haute, a > small town a dozen or so miles from Toulouse. > > Actually don't bother ... the only reason that I mention it is that my > persona's mother came from there, or was it Plaisance (Piacenza) Italy?. > Oh, well, I get confused about this SCA persona stuff . > > Jealously, > Katie, who has never been to Europe We're stopping at Minerve for the exact same reason - my SCA persona was born there :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 11:59:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VGxriF030485 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:59:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VGwxcP013424; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:58:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VGwwvq089006; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:58:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav11.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VGwuvq088904 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:58:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:41:34 -0800 Received: from 66.130.164.16 by bay9-dav11.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:41:34 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.164.16] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <007a01c4170f$b64aa4f0$90813551@mathilde> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Travelling in France Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:42:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Mar 2004 16:41:34.0440 (UTC) FILETIME=[07335680:01C4173F] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Then again, f you have a favorite period or a particuliar interest, tell me > and I might find you more obscure places to visit ;) - Southern France, early 13th Century (That's why we're going to Toulouse, Minerve and St-Guilhelm-le-Désert) - The pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostella - mid-late 16th C, mostly Italy and Spain, but a little all around (I'll go to Florence, one day...) - 1800-1815 France (Empire dresses are wonderful) - Fashion in general, 1000-1980. Especially extant pieces. And of course, we'll be visiting the regular tourist places. Thanks for your help. Audrey _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 14:37:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VJbwiF031364 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:37:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VJbHcP028135; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:37:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VJanvq008968; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:36:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40914.mail.yahoo.com (web40914.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.211]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2VJafvq008818 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:36:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from demontsegur@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040331192955.82766.qmail@web40914.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.105.108.84] by web40914.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:29:55 PST Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:29:55 -0800 (PST) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200403311901.i2VJ1dvs082596@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: OT -- travelling in France X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > - The pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostella If you have time, there's a wonderful book you might enjoy reading beforehand or on the trip, called _The Pilgrimage to Santiago_ by Edwin Mullins. It's been reissued as part of a series called "Lost and Found: Classic Travel Writing". Mullins clearly knows his Romanesque architecture and stone carving, and does a fascinating job detailing the towns and the churches and other telltale signs of the once-thriving pilgrim tourist industry along the pilgrimage route of the West coast of France and into Northern Spain. Also, I don't think anyone has mentioned The Musee des Tissus et des Arts decoratifs de Lyon (in Lyon, obviously). This museum has the famed Charles de Blois "pourpoint" and a few alms purses dating to the 14th century, as well as other textile treasures. I haven't been there yet, but it'll be a must-see for me on my first trip to France, whenever I can pull that off. Cheers, Tasha __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 15:15:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VKFKiF032613 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:15:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VK0PcP001120; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:00:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VK0Kvq026215; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:00:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simq2-srv.bellnexxia.net (simq2.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.152]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VK0Hvq026091 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:00:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.70.4.21]) by simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040331191652.SXSA13206.simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:16:52 -0500 Message-ID: <003101c41755$1bb62f40$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:19:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Silk Test X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know this was posted to this list a little while ago, and I thought I had saved it! When you put a sample of what you think is a silk blend in bleach, is it the silk that dissolves or is it the blending fibre? Sheridan (having an Altzheimers moment...) <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ...it is well known that a vital ingredient of success is not knowing that what you're attempting can't be done. Terry Pratchett (Equal Rites) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 16:33:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VLX5iF000529 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:33:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VLWQcP010670; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:32:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VLWMvq094467; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:32:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14003.mail.yahoo.com (web14003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i2VLWKvq094430 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:32:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040331213220.35662.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:32:20 BST Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:32:20 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Test To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <003101c41755$1bb62f40$cb6afea9@sherry> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO silk dissolves --- Shane & Sheridan wrote: > I know this was posted to this list a little while > ago, and I thought I had > saved it! > > When you put a sample of what you think is a silk > blend in bleach, is it the > silk that dissolves or is it the blending fibre? > > Sheridan > (having an Altzheimers moment...) > > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > ...it is well known that a vital ingredient of > success is not knowing that > what you're attempting can't be done. > > Terry Pratchett (Equal Rites) > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ___________________________________________________________ WIN FREE WORLDWIDE FLIGHTS - nominate a cafe in the Yahoo! Mail Internet Cafe Awards www.yahoo.co.uk/internetcafes _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 16:36:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VLaMiF000555 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:36:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VLZGcP011044; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:35:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VLZEvq096779; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:35:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav39.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.96]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VLZAvq096675 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:35:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:17:29 -0800 Received: from 66.130.164.16 by bay9-dav39.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:17:28 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.164.16] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003101c41755$1bb62f40$cb6afea9@sherry> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Test Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:18:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Mar 2004 21:17:29.0037 (UTC) FILETIME=[92825FD0:01C41765] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Silk and wool will dissolve in bleach. Silk might leave a slight residue (not sure if it's seracin or treating products). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:19 PM Subject: [h-cost] Silk Test > I know this was posted to this list a little while ago, and I thought I had > saved it! > > When you put a sample of what you think is a silk blend in bleach, is it the > silk that dissolves or is it the blending fibre? > > Sheridan > (having an Altzheimers moment...) > > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > ...it is well known that a vital ingredient of success is not knowing that > what you're attempting can't be done. > > Terry Pratchett (Equal Rites) > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 17:12:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VMCaiF000713 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:12:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VMC0cP014296; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VMBuvq025033; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:11:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [69.17.45.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VMBtvq025018 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:11:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Received: by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix, from userid 313) id EC7F22F8D6; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:14:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Test To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:14:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20040331213220.35662.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?=" at Mar 31, 2004 10:32:20 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20040331221410.EC7F22F8D6@jabberwock.wonderland.com> From: alice@wonderland.com (Heather Meadows) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know wool will, too. .heather. > > silk dissolves > > > --- Shane & Sheridan > wrote: > I know this was posted to this list a little > while > > ago, and I thought I had > > saved it! > > > > When you put a sample of what you think is a silk > > blend in bleach, is it the > > silk that dissolves or is it the blending fibre? > > > > Sheridan > > (having an Altzheimers moment...) > > > > > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > > > ...it is well known that a vital ingredient of > > success is not knowing that > > what you're attempting can't be done. > > > > Terry Pratchett (Equal Rites) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ===== > Catalina > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > WIN FREE WORLDWIDE FLIGHTS - nominate a cafe in the Yahoo! Mail Internet Cafe Awards www.yahoo.co.uk/internetcafes > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 17:22:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VMM9iF000752 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:22:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VMLRcP015205; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:21:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VMLOvq031749; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:21:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.k12.hi.us (honu.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.214]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VMLJvq031678 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:21:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from makani (makani.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.195]) by smtp.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5CF9506D8 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:16:50 -1000 (HST) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:19:27 -1000 (HST) From: annora X-X-Sender: To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20040331221410.EC7F22F8D6@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Women's Costume of the Near and Middle East X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Are any of you familiar with the above book by Jennifer Scarce? Do you have any comments, cautions, or caveats about it? Amazon has a few positive comments about it but I don't recall seeing it discussed here before (although I don't usually do Middle Eastern so I could've skipped the thread). Originally published in 1988, paperback edition printed last year. thanks, annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 17:35:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2VMZviF000812 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:35:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VMY6cP016395; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:34:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VMY3vq040982; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:34:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simq1-srv.bellnexxia.net (simq1.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.151]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2VMXwvq040874 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:33:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.70.4.210]) by simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040331215659.YUXK21833.simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:56:59 -0500 Message-ID: <005201c4176b$7a2374a0$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003101c41755$1bb62f40$cb6afea9@sherry> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Test Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:59:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, thats what I thought, but I couldn't quite remember... Sheridan :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Test > Silk and wool will dissolve in bleach. Silk might leave a slight residue > (not sure if it's seracin or treating products). > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shane & Sheridan" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:19 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Silk Test > > > > I know this was posted to this list a little while ago, and I thought I > had > > saved it! > > > > When you put a sample of what you think is a silk blend in bleach, is it > the > > silk that dissolves or is it the blending fibre? > > > > Sheridan > > (having an Altzheimers moment...) > > > > > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > > > ...it is well known that a vital ingredient of success is not knowing that > > what you're attempting can't be done. > > > > Terry Pratchett (Equal Rites) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 19:54:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i310soiF001382 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:54:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i310s4cP026915; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:54:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i310ruvq038436; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:53:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i310rjvq038314 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:53:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.129.80]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3F216D9C6 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:53:42 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:53:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inquiry on pearl colors and sizes in 14th century Message-ID: <406AF791.6153.9BD2B77@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20040331160703.87352.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com> References: <000a01c41712$b51503c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > My negotiator is > trying to talk me into some more, well unusual colors, > like a coppery color or a peacock and some of the > more rice-type as part of the things 'provided' by the > groom and his family. If you get pearls, get freshwater pearls. Natural (undyed). If they feel that they need to go with something colored, then glass or semiprecious beads would probably be better. Or flat metal bits. There are a lot of wonderful metal bits (gold being preferred, of course) that were put on the clothing (see _Black Prince_ and _Dress Accessories_.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 31 23:53:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i314rZiF002404 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:53:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i314qdcP013950; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:52:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i314qNvq073348; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:52:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i314qJvr073311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:52:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i314trxT020269 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:55:53 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i314trtu020267 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:55:53 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Women's Costume of the Near and Middle East Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:55:53 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403312355.53552.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040323, clamav-milter version 0.70a Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 31 March 2004 05:19 pm, annora wrote: > Hi, > Are any of you familiar with the above book by Jennifer Scarce? > Do you have any comments, cautions, or caveats about it? Yes, I bought myself a copy last year. Unfortunately, it seems to have vanished, so I'm going to have to comment from memory. :-) It's not a bad book, but if you're expecting vast amounts of detail be prepared for disappointment. It's not much more than a historical survey. Other issues you should be aware of: 1) The title's misleading. 99% of the material is about Turkish costume only. 2) It could use better organization and more illustrations. Most of the existing ones are black and white photographs. They're reasonably clear, but in light of the fact that the basic lines of costume are simple, and the real glory of the costumes is their colors and colored decoration, I felt a bit cheated by the lack of color pictures (though that probably brought down the price). > Amazon has a few > positive comments about it but I don't recall seeing it discussed here > before (although I don't usually do Middle Eastern so I could've skipped > the thread). [snip] It hasn't been. I would have remembered. That being said, there are so few books available that even touch upon medieval Near Eastern costume (Scarce goes back to about the 14th c, though most of her material is 17-20th) that I think it's still worth the $29.95 cover price. The only other book on Near/Middle Eastern Dress I've looked through recently (Short History of Arab Dress , author: Stillman, Y K , Publisher: Koninklijke Brill) was retailing with my favorite book dealer for $101.00 US, and had all the faults of Scarce's book magnified--i.e. it had fewer photographs and was even worse organized. If I find my copy, I'll see if I can come up with more specific details. -- Cathy Raymond "Anything's within walking distance if you have the time." -Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume