From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 06:27:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41ARGMx030862 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 06:27:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41AQkmB018838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 04:26:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41AQjGi097590; Sat, 1 May 2004 04:26:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41APiGl097242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 04:25:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i415eHXo010089 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 01:40:17 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i415eH7U010087 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 1 May 2004 01:40:17 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 01:40:16 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <20040430.075112.-564341.3.lisa58@juno.com> <40926A33.9020407@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <40926A33.9020407@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405010140.16635.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 30 April 2004 11:01 am, Dawn wrote: [snip] > The style strikes me as about 1890. The bustle is gone, the sleeves are > high and tight, the decoration of the front bodice and the single skirt > are appropriate for that time. In a few years more the fashion will get > puffier -- fuller skirts and big sleeves and hair. I agree that it > doesn't look like it was made for her, due to the bulge at the hips. So > she might be wearing a borrowed dress, but if you are going to borrow > for a (wedding?) photo, why borrow an out of fashion dress? Because it's the most expensive dress any of your friends have? My mother was married in my aunt's wedding dress, which fit well except through the bosom (Mom was nearly flat-chested, while my aunt was much better endowed), so she wore a bigger bra and they stuffed it with lots of Kleenex... However, I'm inclined to agree that the dress is from the 1890's, either very early (when the bustle collapsed but before the big-sleeve craze took hold) or very late (at the end of the decade when the sleeves collapsed again). I don't think it's a bustle-era dress because bustle-era dresses tended to have extremely fitted bodices, and I'm not sure I believe that a makeover into the less fitted style of the 1890's would be successful. Also, the bustle-era day dresses didn't have even that little puff at the top of the sleeve, and I think it's unlikely that a true bustle-era dress would have enough extra fabric left over to make one after the fact. -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 06:27:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41ARVMx030867 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 06:27:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41APmmB018816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 04:25:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41APlGi097261; Sat, 1 May 2004 04:25:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41APiGj097242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 04:25:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i415lLXo010169 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 01:47:21 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i415lKB5010167 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 1 May 2004 01:47:20 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 01:47:20 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <003a01c42f02$214e34b0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> In-Reply-To: <003a01c42f02$214e34b0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405010147.20084.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 30 April 2004 06:26 pm, kim baird wrote: > I respectfully disagree with a date this early on two points: the lack > of wrist and neck ruffles which were popular until the late 1880's, and > the lack of an overskirt of any kind (even a false one), again popular > until the late 1880's. > Dawn > > OK, the overskirt was definitely popular, but not actually required. The > lack of lace doesn't mean anything--lots of 1880's dresses didn't have > any at the wrists, or indeed anywhere. I suppose you could theorize that there *was* once an overskirt but that it was removed to make the lower half of that odd long bodice. I still think it's 1890's because of the sleeves, but I'm always happy to listen to counterarguments by the better-informed. -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 08:40:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41CewMx031330 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 08:40:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41CeEmB002374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 06:40:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41CeDGi049593; Sat, 1 May 2004 06:40:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41Ce8Gj049565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 06:40:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i41DPXWm011412 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 09:25:34 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AAA524C90080; Sat, 01 May 2004 08:40:05 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.127]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 1 May 2004 08:40:05 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c42f7a$449be700$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001c01c42ebc$28640770$0201a8c0@kimathlon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 08:46:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2004 12:40:05.0586 (UTC) FILETIME=[6DF9EB20:01C42F79] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO After looking at the photo again, I almost see an extension of the hipline of the jacket which would account for the weird fit.I could presume that this piece had been added on to accommodate the passamenterie. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 10:05 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Photo > > BTW, what do you think is causing that wrinkle/bulge in > Lisa's pic - on the high hip? > > -Judy Mitchell > > Good question! That's why I think the dress was borrowed or handed down, > because it doesn't fit. Or else, she is getting fatter or wearing too > many petticoats--who knows. The tails on the bodice are being spread too > wide, for whatever reason, that is why it has wrinkled. > > Kim > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 08:40:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41CevMx031327 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 08:40:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41CdOmB002312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 06:39:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41CdMGi049310; Sat, 1 May 2004 06:39:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i41CdJGj049257 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 06:39:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SAVSMTP 3.1.0.29) with SMTP id M2004050108391121013 for ; Sat, 01 May 2004 08:39:11 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id i41Cd58Q004797 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 08:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01ad01c42f79$537fcfd0$5ba810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040430.065925.2932.64715@webmail01.lax.untd.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 08:39:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is it possible she's pregnant? Kate *** ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 9:58 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Photo > > Thanks, Kim. And any thoughts anyone else has are very welcome. > > It was also my perception that the dress didn't fit that well, because the sleeves seem tight and rather short (although I know that the mid-forearm length might be real). But it's very likely that she was given the outfit to put on sepcifically to have the photo done--this was a couple who were Jewish and poor, I believe. At any rate, they were poor when they immigrated to the States. So that might also explain a dress somewhat out of date, and it certainly doesn't even look ironed. I thought that the hip circumferential "bulge" might represent the skirt waist lying in the wrong place, maybe she wasn't used towearing clothes like this. > > Yours in costuming, Lisa A. > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 08:53:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41CrnMx031392 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 08:53:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41Cp9mB002843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 06:51:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41Cp7Gi053356; Sat, 1 May 2004 06:51:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41Cp4Gj053345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 06:51:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i41DaTWm021869 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 09:36:30 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AD36251A0080; Sat, 01 May 2004 08:51:02 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.127]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 1 May 2004 08:51:01 -0400 Message-ID: <002b01c42f7b$cbcb55c0$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040430211646.66549.qmail@web50707.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 18th c. sleeve treatment Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 08:57:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2004 12:51:01.0796 (UTC) FILETIME=[F51B9E40:01C42F7A] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This sleeve is interesting indeed...even if it is supposed to be the chemise. I have a wedding gown dated 1878 in which the eyelet sleeve is formed to create this unique 'openwork'. It was formed by butting two edges of the scalloped hem of the eyelet yardage together. Until I saw this movie pic, had not encounters the design idea before. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" To: Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:16 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: 18th c. sleeve treatment > Carol wrote: > Costume designers are notorious for adding somethng "interesting" to > period designs or using historic sources as inspiration for their > creativity. > > I write: > This is why I am asking. My limited experience in this era tells me that it's a designer feature, not a historical one, but I thought I'd ask. > > Carol wrote: > When getting dressed in repro clothes, it's pretty common to have a > friend pull your shift sleeves down to alleviate the bunching under a > tight gown or jacket sleeve! > > I wrote: > Been there, done that, had friends help me and my underpinnings into public bathroom stalls! Also have been the victim of a violent jumping up and down in a corset to get said sleeves to sit correctly! ;-) Funny the things we do in order to serve historical vanity... > > Cindy wrote: > I have found out that if you enlarge chemise/shift sleeves on even a > doll, unless the gown sleeves are full, you have to recut the gown sleeves > as well as remodel the gown armhole > > I wrote: > I don't think the armscye will need a whole lot of remodelling, I just think I will have to make the sleeve head a bit deeper to give me more shoulder space. It's on my bodice, not the shift. The shift hasn't even been made yet. And luckily the bodice is made from a corded watered moire of sorts, so there is no real pattern to speak of to match. The interesting thing about it though, I had the pure luck of having the cording match the bodice perfectly so that from a distance, the sleeve and bodice look as if they are cut as one piece. Entirely happenstance, that. > > > Yikes! Seems like my meandering chatter got a few wires crossed. I scoured the net to find a pic of what I am talking about in the movie: > http://www.filmmagasinet.no/konkurranser/bilder/2003/Pirates/pirates2.jpg > Look at her sleeves, there is a line of lacing down the outer arm, from shoulder to elbow. She is in her chemise/shift, not her outer bodice or corset. > I'm wanting to know if this is historically identifiable or is it a detail the costume designer threw in for visual interest. > > I have done at least one dress from most fashion eras, excluding regency (just looks horrid on me personally and have had no call for it from customers) and between 1600-1776. It's just that this particular time period, I have not put tonnes of research time into simply because this was a one-off thing, and done early on in my costuming career, so following a pattern and blindly trusting it (which in this case I didn't entirely anyway, because the historical errors in the pattern jumped out at even me - which were later corrected with a few quick dives into fashion plate books) This dress in particular has seen me tugged, squeezed, pushed and squashed on various occasions, I can put on the dress, it's just that I am not lifting my arms up very high when I do. Even pushing a curl of hair out of my eyes is a challenge, so adding a gusset (or making a two-piece sleeve) seemed like a reasonable thing to do for two reasons: the spare fabric I have left, I don't think I could recu! > t two new > complete sleeves from, and the elbow ruffle is sized to fit that hole; it would be a pain to have to repleat it back onto a new one and still have it look right. I would likely have to recut that as well, and for the former reason, I don't think I can do that. > > Is gusseting (and adding "fish" into bodice seams for that matter) not a period practice for alterations in this era? > > Sorry for the confusion. This just happens to be an era that I am a bit ignorant on. I have a closet full of late Vic and Ed and another of 16th c. that shows where I concentrate my efforts on. It would be nice to complete this costume down to the underwear finally, should I ever have the need to wear it again. > > My apologies for the rambling chatter. > > Kathy > > > An artist's work is an artist's reason for being. ~Cheryl Mandus > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 09:05:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41D5AMx031466 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 09:05:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41D2fmB003369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 07:02:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41D2eGi057364; Sat, 1 May 2004 07:02:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41D2cGj057352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 07:02:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i41Dm4Wm000751 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 09:48:04 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AFEC25510080; Sat, 01 May 2004 09:02:36 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.127]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 1 May 2004 09:02:36 -0400 Message-ID: <004f01c42f7d$69e5c5a0$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric storage Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 09:08:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2004 13:02:36.0494 (UTC) FILETIME=[932E1EE0:01C42F7C] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And you can add cloves to the list. On a cooks-tour through an old house, found copious amounts of cloves squirreled away in drawers, closets, and trunks. At first we thought it was mouse droppings... Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 11:42 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric storage > I do not have a moth problem but others who have had the problem use. > Moth balls > Lavender (the herb) > Rosemary (") > mint (") > Sage (") > Cedar > Not necessarily all together. > > De > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Kitsune242@aol.com > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 4:09 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric storage > > > In a message dated 4/26/2004 10:52:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > kbaird@cableone.net writes: > > > Regarding long-term fabric storage, neither plastic nor cardboard is a > > good idea, UNLESS it is acid-free cardboard. You can buy > > acid-free > > storage boxes from a number of sources, including > > Unfortunately, for someone who has a problem like I do (we have a Cloth Moth > infestation) I can't store my fabric is any other than a plastic bin. > > Kit > If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - > Kenneth Cole > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 09:06:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41D6FMx031471 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 09:06:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41D5gmB003515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 07:05:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41D5fGi058367; Sat, 1 May 2004 07:05:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41D5dGj058354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 07:05:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i41Dp5Wm003476 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 09:51:05 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A0A2804007C; Sat, 01 May 2004 09:05:38 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.127]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 1 May 2004 09:05:37 -0400 Message-ID: <005701c42f7d$d629d620$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric storage, mothballs for dummies Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 09:11:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2004 13:05:38.0066 (UTC) FILETIME=[FF67CF20:01C42F7C] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In 'Home Trends", the catalogue for the Fullerbrush Company, they have a specific product for silverfish. (Also grain moths, which works wonderfully.) Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "annora" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 3:28 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric storage, mothballs for dummies > > I do not have a moth problem but others who have had the problem use. > > Moth balls > > Clothing moths aren't a problem where I live so I have what will > probably be a really dumb question to the rest of you. > > The set up for the question: I have a bunch of wool (as in locks of > fleece, not fabric) for spinning which is being stored in a box. > Silverfish have moved in so for the first time in my life I bought some > mothballs with the hope that they would help to get rid of the critters. > Even if the box doesn't say it's effective against silverfish, I figured > if it's noxious enough to be dangerous to humans there's a good chance > it'll kill silverfish too. Which brings me to the question: > The box says that the mothballs should only be used in air tight > containers where the fumes can't escape--no plastic bags or cardboard > boxes. Is that the norm for mothballs? And if so, what kinds of > containers do you all store things in that are big enough to hold fabric > or garments and are air tight? > > --annora > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 09:10:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41DAZMx031490 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 09:10:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41D8nmB003626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 07:08:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41D8mGi059439; Sat, 1 May 2004 07:08:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41D8kGj059417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 07:08:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i41DsCWm005070 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 09:54:12 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A150813007C; Sat, 01 May 2004 09:08:32 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.127]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 1 May 2004 09:08:31 -0400 Message-ID: <005d01c42f7e$3df270a0$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric storage, mothballs for dummies Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 09:14:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2004 13:08:32.0190 (UTC) FILETIME=[673105E0:01C42F7D] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Again, the Fullerbrush catalogue has a wonderful array of treatments for all kinds of closet pests! We use the electronic device that discourages mice and ants/roaches in our summer home with some success. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Molly Boone" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 4:00 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric storage, mothballs for dummies > well I have a comment and a suggestion. > > Comment first - I have this beautiful lot of a golden corduroy material that > was given to me after having been stored in mothballs for an extended period > of time and I'm having a heck of a time getting the smell out. Something to > think about. (P.S. anyone with suggestions to get rid of the smell would > make my life time.) > > Suggestion - last year the summer was so warm here in Seattle that, well, > the spiders got seriously out of hand. OK out of hand means the regular > wolf spiders that were entering my home were HUGE. The things were about > the diameter of old silver dollars including the legs. That is a bit more > than 2 inches across (EEK!). In desperation I went looking for bug bombs > for the house, I couldn't find any! What I did find was a small ultrasonic > device that you just plug into an electrical outlet and the ultrasonic repel > all sorts of bugs and rodents. The ones I have are made by Sunbeam and I > swear by them. They don't annoy the cat and it is a lot healthier for her > and me not to have the chemicals in the house. They might be useable to > repel the moths and the silverfish. > > Molly > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of annora > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 12:29 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric storage, mothballs for dummies > > > > I do not have a moth problem but others who have had the problem use. > > Moth balls > > Clothing moths aren't a problem where I live so I have what will > probably be a really dumb question to the rest of you. > > The set up for the question: I have a bunch of wool (as in locks of > fleece, not fabric) for spinning which is being stored in a box. > Silverfish have moved in so for the first time in my life I bought some > mothballs with the hope that they would help to get rid of the critters. > Even if the box doesn't say it's effective against silverfish, I figured > if it's noxious enough to be dangerous to humans there's a good chance > it'll kill silverfish too. Which brings me to the question: > The box says that the mothballs should only be used in air tight > containers where the fumes can't escape--no plastic bags or cardboard > boxes. Is that the norm for mothballs? And if so, what kinds of > containers do you all store things in that are big enough to hold fabric > or garments and are air tight? > > --annora > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 09:28:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41DSPMx031530 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 09:28:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41DRumB004432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 07:27:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41DRtGi065757; Sat, 1 May 2004 07:27:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20504.mail.yahoo.com (web20504.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.139]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i41DRrGi065745 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 07:27:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pennyrobertsho@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040501132110.37777.qmail@web20504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.10.86.212] by web20504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 01 May 2004 06:21:10 PDT Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 06:21:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Penny Roberts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric storage, mothballs for dummies To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <005701c42f7d$d629d620$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "In 'Home Trends", the catalogue for the Fullerbrush Company, they have a specific product for silverfish. " Does anyone have the URL for this? I did not find it looking on line at Fullerbrush... Thanks --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 09:56:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41DukMx031653 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 09:56:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41DsimB005355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 07:54:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41DsgGi074975; Sat, 1 May 2004 07:54:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41DsdGi074956 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 07:54:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.177.207]) by smail2.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 5815620 for ; Sat, 01 May 2004 06:43:25 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Photo Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 08:55:31 -0500 Message-ID: <004d01c42f83$f8dab300$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <200405010147.20084.cathy@thyrsus.com> Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I still think it's 1890's because of the sleeves, but I'm always happy to listen to counterarguments by the better-informed. -- Cathy Raymond Sleeves are a good indicator, and that little puff at the top probably means 1890. But early, not late 1890's. Look at her hair, all tight with those little curls in front. Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 10:27:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41ERgMx031810 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 10:27:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41ERCmB006439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 08:27:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41ER8Gi086981; Sat, 1 May 2004 08:27:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf16.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf16.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.216]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41ER7Gi086941 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 08:27:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joedr@charter.net) Received: from charter.net (66.169.191.177.ts46v-16.otnh2.ftwrth.tx.charter.com [66.169.191.177]) by mxsf16.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i41EQacQ036223 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 10:26:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4093B39B.B7FE0BA4@charter.net> Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 09:26:35 -0500 From: Joe Robertson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Early renaissance belts and shoes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would like to find some good pictoral examples of upper class girdles (and footwear) from the early to mid 1500's, such that would be appropriate for trips to town. Any suggestions on helpful sites? I am targeting western europe, specifically the Scottish highlands. Cheers, Joe _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 11:12:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41FC4Mx032110 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 11:12:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41FBXmB008367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 09:11:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41FBOGi003760; Sat, 1 May 2004 09:11:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41FAZGi003334 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 09:10:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fd1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.209]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4182E5EE02D for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 17:10:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000901c42f8e$72150c20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 17:10:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] hyena fabrics X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i41FC4Mx032110 Status: RO Hi, I have looked and looked and looked, it seems impossible to find a silk taffeta in the grey coulour i need for the courtdress. I tryed http://www.hyenaproductions.com/index.html And they have wonderfull produkts, in fact some ot thier striped ones could be the colour i need, but i cant find just solid colours in silk taffeta. I emailed them and asked, but they have not bothered to answer me. Any chanse any of you know where i could find a light grey colour of taffeta? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 11:14:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41FEMMx032129 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 11:14:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41FDnmB008505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 09:13:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41FDkGi004910; Sat, 1 May 2004 09:13:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net (audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3U6LBw1093495 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 00:21:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from madlystitching@earthlink.net) Received: from 209-165-45-077.jps.net ([209.165.45.77] helo=stephen) by audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BJROI-0001w8-00; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:20:55 -0700 Message-ID: <000701c42e7a$d5349f60$4d2da5d1@stephen> From: "Stephen Bergdahl" To: , , , "SCA Clan Blue Feather Mailing List" , , , , , , Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:17:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-ELNK-Trace: 08dba192340bde6e1a6ab3b9b70940f894f5150ab1c16ac08bb5361f5afbff601a3d26cbc83f37a12167c1f0940bc1ea350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 01 May 2004 09:13:45 -0600 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Spring Cleaning. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've decided to clean out the closet a little, and have put some of my costumes on Ebay. This is the first: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8103184893 If you are a large man, or know one you want to check this out. Let me know if you want to be notified when I put items up. I am getting rid of a lot of costumes. Stephen Bergdahl - Lord Vich "They moved the Oscars to Sunday, it'll still end on Monday." Billy Crystal. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 11:50:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41FogMx032566 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 11:50:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41FnbmB010007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 09:49:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41FnaGi018579; Sat, 1 May 2004 09:49:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41FnXGj018559 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 09:49:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i41GZ1Wm002862 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 12:35:01 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A70B1E7300AA; Sat, 01 May 2004 11:49:31 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.112]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 1 May 2004 11:49:30 -0400 Message-ID: <002401c42f94$b9ee8b60$705183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040430.065925.2932.64715@webmail01.lax.untd.com> <01ad01c42f79$537fcfd0$5ba810ac@Kate> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 11:55:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2004 15:49:31.0411 (UTC) FILETIME=[E4892E30:01C42F93] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This was an initial view that I suggested. I have just spent an hour at the book shelf and came up with a number of pics from Severa and Dalyrmple and a couple of other sources that would help me to revise the original opinion re a '70's/80's dating,(even including a predated pic I have) To1885/90. The sleeve length puts it squarely in the mid 80's but the tiny cap, at the end of that decade. The jacket length is somewhat of a puzzler except, if it was made up by an inexperienced seamstress. I have several resources for immigrant dress and some of them would point in the direction of accommodating an ethnic top to a fashionable interpretation. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 8:39 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo > Is it possible she's pregnant? > Kate > *** > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 9:58 AM > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Photo > > > > > > Thanks, Kim. And any thoughts anyone else has are very welcome. > > > > It was also my perception that the dress didn't fit that well, because the > sleeves seem tight and rather short (although I know that the mid-forearm > length might be real). But it's very likely that she was given the outfit > to put on sepcifically to have the photo done--this was a couple who were > Jewish and poor, I believe. At any rate, they were poor when they > immigrated to the States. So that might also explain a dress somewhat out > of date, and it certainly doesn't even look ironed. I thought that the hip > circumferential "bulge" might represent the skirt waist lying in the wrong > place, maybe she wasn't used towearing clothes like this. > > > > Yours in costuming, Lisa A. > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 12:02:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41G2AMx032635 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 12:02:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41FxgmB010360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 09:59:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41FxfGi022211; Sat, 1 May 2004 09:59:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41FxcGj022196 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 09:59:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i41Gj6Wm012261 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 12:45:06 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A968F5F0084; Sat, 01 May 2004 11:59:36 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.112]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 1 May 2004 11:59:36 -0400 Message-ID: <003e01c42f96$22abc9a0$705183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040501132110.37777.qmail@web20504.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric storage, mothballs for dummies Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 12:05:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2004 15:59:36.0714 (UTC) FILETIME=[4D5316A0:01C42F95] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here it is: www.ShopHomeTrends.comKathleen----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Roberts" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric storage, mothballs for dummies > > "In 'Home Trends", the catalogue for the Fullerbrush Company, they have a > specific product for silverfish. " > > Does anyone have the URL for this? I did not find it looking on line at Fullerbrush... > > Thanks > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 12:22:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41GMaMx032729 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 12:22:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41GM0mB011415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 10:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41GLtGi030941; Sat, 1 May 2004 10:21:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41GLqGi030919 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 10:21:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.67] (p03.3c02.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.67]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i41GKrC09188 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 10:20:53 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 10:03:01 -0600 From: Sylvia To: Historic Costume list Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1880-1890s costume books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone have good suggestions for American costume history books specifically for the 1880s and 1890s? I have a few already but am going to be designing some melodramas this summer and always like to find more research materials. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 13:03:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41H38Mx000498 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 13:03:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41H2WmB013335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 11:02:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41H2TGi053362; Sat, 1 May 2004 11:02:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts12.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41H2RGi053301 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 11:02:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.70.4.66]) by simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040501170222.HTWR25455.simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 13:02:22 -0400 Message-ID: <006601c42f9e$37556ca0$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000901c42f8e$72150c20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Taffeta (was Hyena Fabrics) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 13:03:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I recently found this website, I do not know if the grey they offer is the right one, but they do have samplers: http://www.supersilk.com/index1.asp hope this is a help Sheridan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 11:10 AM Subject: [h-cost] hyena fabrics Hi, I have looked and looked and looked, it seems impossible to find a silk taffeta in the grey coulour i need for the courtdress. I tryed http://www.hyenaproductions.com/index.html And they have wonderfull produkts, in fact some ot thier striped ones could be the colour i need, but i cant find just solid colours in silk taffeta. I emailed them and asked, but they have not bothered to answer me. Any chanse any of you know where i could find a light grey colour of taffeta? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 13:39:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41HdGMx000688 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 13:39:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41HccmB014891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 11:38:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41HcZGi068250; Sat, 1 May 2004 11:38:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41HcXGi068230 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 11:38:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i41HWxZ24208 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 10:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BJyME-000395-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 May 2004 10:32:58 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Silk Taffeta (was Hyena Fabrics) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 10:33:04 -0700 Message-ID: <000201c42fa2$5c07a9b0$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <006601c42f9e$37556ca0$cb6afea9@sherry> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i41HcXGi068230 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thai silks has several shades of grey. http://www.thaisilks.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TS&Product _Code=021Y Oh, and I would not deal with Hyena. They misrepresent some of their fabrics and have been down right nasty about it. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 14:04:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41I4HMx000864 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 14:04:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41I2HmB016271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 12:02:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41I2GGi078110; Sat, 1 May 2004 12:02:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41I0pGi077403 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 12:00:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i41Hw4E02693 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 10:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BJykQ-0006zW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 May 2004 10:57:58 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 10:58:04 -0700 Message-ID: <000601c42fa5$d9db8c50$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Silk Taffeta X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.anjooriansilks.com/weaves.htm Whoops, that message went out before I was done. This is the page that describes the weaves. You have to scroll down to find tafetta. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 14:06:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41I6RMx000876 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 14:06:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41I4CmB016378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 12:04:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41I4CGi078879; Sat, 1 May 2004 12:04:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41I49Gj078860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 12:04:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i41IncWm004098 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 14:49:38 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A6944C9005A; Sat, 01 May 2004 14:04:04 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.125]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 1 May 2004 14:04:04 -0400 Message-ID: <000e01c42fa7$86248240$7d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1880-1890s costume books Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 14:10:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2004 18:04:04.0932 (UTC) FILETIME=[B0BAB840:01C42FA6] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What are some of your resources to date? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia" To: "Historic Costume list" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 12:03 PM Subject: [h-cost] 1880-1890s costume books > Does anyone have good suggestions for American costume history books > specifically for the 1880s and 1890s? I have a few already but am going to > be designing some melodramas this summer and always like to find more > research materials. > > Sylrog > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 14:07:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41I7LMx000882 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 14:07:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41I6VmB016495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 12:06:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41I6UGi079813; Sat, 1 May 2004 12:06:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41I6SGj079790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 12:06:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i41IpuWm008937 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 14:51:56 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A70B4CF005A; Sat, 01 May 2004 14:06:03 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.125]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 1 May 2004 14:06:02 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c42fa7$ccb25660$7d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000201c42fa2$5c07a9b0$6a01a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Taffeta (was Hyena Fabrics) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 14:12:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2004 18:06:03.0039 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7206AF0:01C42FA6] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So "what's in a name"! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 1:33 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Silk Taffeta (was Hyena Fabrics) > Thai silks has several shades of grey. > http://www.thaisilks.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TS&Product > _Code=021Y > > Oh, and I would not deal with Hyena. They misrepresent some of their > fabrics and have been down right nasty about it. > > Sg > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 15:55:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41JtXMx001433 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 15:55:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41JqfmB021674 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 13:52:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41JqVGi023694; Sat, 1 May 2004 13:52:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41JqUGi023681 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 13:52:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.189] (p29.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.189]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i41JpUC23266 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 13:51:30 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 13:33:39 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1880-1890s costume books From: Sylvia To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000e01c42fa7$86248240$7d5183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 14:10:01 -0400 > To: "Historical Costume" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1880-1890s costume books > > What are some of your resources to date? > Kathleen I just went through them and found I actually have more than I had thought I did. They are: American Victorian Costume in Early Photographs The Victorian Art World in Photographs Victorian London Street Life English Womens Clothing in the 19th Century Harpers Bazaar 1867-1898 American Mail Order Fashions 1880-1900 Victorian & Edwardian Fashion A Photographic Survey I realize some of these are English rather than American fashion books, but I figure there's not too much, if any difference basically. If anyone know of such, please let me know. I have a few specific questions, if there are any experts out there who want to share their expertise with me. 1) Some of the characters are in mourning but also in evening wear. Would they be wearing black evening wear that looks the same as other evening wear except for color? 2) Would a niece be wearing mourning wear if her aunt died? 3) Did judges wear robes in the late 1800s similar or exactly like they do today? 4) What would a railroad signalman wear? Thanks in advance for any help you might want to lend. I really appreciate it. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 15:56:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41JuaMx001442 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 15:56:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41JtxmB021882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 13:55:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41JtvGi025142; Sat, 1 May 2004 13:55:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41JthGj025005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 13:55:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41K19Xo012368 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 16:01:09 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i41K18JV012366 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 1 May 2004 16:01:08 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 16:01:07 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <004d01c42f83$f8dab300$0201a8c0@kimathlon> In-Reply-To: <004d01c42f83$f8dab300$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405011601.07934.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 01 May 2004 09:55 am, kim baird wrote: >Sleeves are a good indicator, and that little puff at the top probably >means 1890. But early, not late 1890's. Look at her hair, all tight with >those little curls in front. Kim, you may have missed my earlier post, where I said I thought it was either early 1890s or very late 1890s. I don't know that much about hairstyles of the period, so I'm willing to take your word that she's wearing an 1890 style. -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 15:58:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41JwNMx001459 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 15:58:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41JvqmB021988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 13:57:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41JvoGi025928; Sat, 1 May 2004 13:57:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41JvmGj025919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 13:57:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41K3FXo012389 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 16:03:15 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i41K3EXW012387 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 1 May 2004 16:03:14 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 16:03:14 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <20040430.065925.2932.64715@webmail01.lax.untd.com> <01ad01c42f79$537fcfd0$5ba810ac@Kate> <002401c42f94$b9ee8b60$705183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <002401c42f94$b9ee8b60$705183d1@rmitchellras> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405011603.14389.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 01 May 2004 11:55 am, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > The jacket length is somewhat of a puzzler > except, if it was made up by an inexperienced seamstress. I have several > resources for immigrant dress and some of them would point in the direction > of accommodating an ethnic top to a fashionable interpretation. This possibility would not surprise me. However, I'm curious; what resources do you have for immigrant dress? My grandparents all came to the US from Eastern Europe around 1910-12. -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 16:34:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41KYbMx001833 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 16:34:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41KXumB023631 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 14:33:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41KXsGi041081; Sat, 1 May 2004 14:33:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41KXoGi041035 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 14:33:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fd1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.209]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1DF0747FE05 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 22:33:46 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001501c42fbb$a39aaf70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 22:34:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] silk taffeta X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i41KYbMx001833 Status: RO Hi, Thanks for your help. I just realised that there is not the grey tone that i want. Then i have looked at James Hare Silks in England, and they only have one grey wich is two blue............. The other day i looked at the samplers i have from James Hare, and there was a very light green shade called tint green. When i look at the portrait, i think it is a little green. But then i looked at the online shop at James Hare, and the shade tint green isnt there anymore....................... Perhaps it would end up, that i have to change the colour of the dress :-(........................ Bjarne not in the mood tonight Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 17:12:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41LCjMx002042 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 17:12:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41L9amB025409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 15:09:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41L9PGi054328; Sat, 1 May 2004 15:09:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i41L9NGi054314 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 15:09:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kendra@tweedlebop.com) Received: from unknown (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@69.106.234.23 with login) by smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2004 21:09:23 -0000 Message-ID: <001601c42fc0$930bb1e0$0202a8c0@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001501c42fbb$a39aaf70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk taffeta Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 14:09:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Bjarne, There's a company called C&J Textiles based in New York City that has an amazing range of silk colors and would probably have what you need. They don't have a website and are somewhat pricey (60" silk taffeta is $16.50/yard), but if you call or write and tell them that you're a professional costumer (in other words, that you sew for other people) they will send you their color cards, and then you could mail/phone order what you need. Make sure you ask specifically for their taffeta swatch cards, as the taffeta isn't on their general silk swatch card. If you're interested, here's their contact info: C&J Textiles 230 West 38th St., 7th floor New York NY 10018 212-354-0040 - Kendra http://demode.tweedlebop.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 17:31:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41LVLMx002199 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 17:31:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41LUhmB026546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 15:30:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41LUgGi062457; Sat, 1 May 2004 15:30:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net (starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41LUeGi062442 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 15:30:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.21.195.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.195] helo=HELENPINTO) by starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BK24F-0004fa-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 May 2004 14:30:39 -0700 Message-ID: <01a401c42fc3$893a15f0$c3159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 17:30:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef0c99ffde41500068df6a7e1848a38ff5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Mourning, was 1880-1890s costume books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Look at the following; it has plenty of details concerning mourning customs and dress in Victorian America, with some mention of England. There is a bibliography at the end. www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Quarter/2926/Mourning.htmlwww.geocities.com/ BourbonStreet/Quarter/2926/Mourning.html This one is very brief and looks like it deals with England. www.tchevalier.com/fallingangels/bckgrnd/mourning/www.tchevalier.com/falling angels/bckgrnd/mourning/ Hope it helps. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 17:33:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41LXJMx002214 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 17:33:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41LWlmB026620 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 15:32:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41LWlGi063397; Sat, 1 May 2004 15:32:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41LWYGi063248 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 15:32:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fd1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.209]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 16C2847FE16 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 23:32:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000501c42fc3$db789ee0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001501c42fbb$a39aaf70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <001601c42fc0$930bb1e0$0202a8c0@hopperflop2> Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk taffeta Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 23:32:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Kendra, Thanks for your help. Pricey? do you call 16,50 dollars expensive for a yard of taffeta? Here in Denmark we pay doubble the price! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 11:09 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk taffeta > Hey Bjarne, > > There's a company called C&J Textiles based in New York City that has an > amazing range of silk colors and would probably have what you need. They > don't have a website and are somewhat pricey (60" silk taffeta is > $16.50/yard), but if you call or write and tell them that you're a > professional costumer (in other words, that you sew for other people) they > will send you their color cards, and then you could mail/phone order what > you need. Make sure you ask specifically for their taffeta swatch cards, as > the taffeta isn't on their general silk swatch card. > > If you're interested, here's their contact info: > > C&J Textiles > 230 West 38th St., 7th floor > New York NY 10018 > 212-354-0040 > > - Kendra > http://demode.tweedlebop.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 17:42:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41Lg9Mx002266 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 17:42:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41LfXmB026975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 15:41:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41LfWGi066906; Sat, 1 May 2004 15:41:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41LfUGi066879 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 15:41:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.177.207]) by smail2.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 5856749 for ; Sat, 01 May 2004 14:30:14 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Photo Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 16:42:24 -0500 Message-ID: <006b01c42fc5$31d37160$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <200405011601.07934.cathy@thyrsus.com> Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cathy-- For late 1890's hair, think Gibson Girl--all puffed up. Kim - Kim, you may have missed my earlier post, where I said I thought it was either early 1890s or very late 1890s. I don't know that much about hairstyles of the period, so I'm willing to take your word that she's wearing an 1890 style. -- Cathy Raymond _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 17:47:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41LlFMx002305 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 17:47:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41LkimB027237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 15:46:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41LkhGi068745; Sat, 1 May 2004 15:46:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41LkfGi068723 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 15:46:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.186] (p26.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.186]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i41LjdC30753 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 15:45:40 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <01a401c42fc3$893a15f0$c3159b04@HELENPINTO> References: <01a401c42fc3$893a15f0$c3159b04@HELENPINTO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <3A0296E4-9BB9-11D8-AC04-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mourning, was 1880-1890s costume books Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 15:48:05 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I could not view either of those pages. Just got messages that those sites could not be found. On May 1, 2004, at 3:30 PM, Helen Pinto wrote: > Look at the following; it has plenty of details concerning mourning > customs > and dress in Victorian America, with some mention of England. There > is a > bibliography at the end. > > www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Quarter/2926/ > Mourning.htmlwww.geocities.com/ > BourbonStreet/Quarter/2926/Mourning.html > > This one is very brief and looks like it deals with England. > > www.tchevalier.com/fallingangels/bckgrnd/mourning/www.tchevalier.com/ > falling > angels/bckgrnd/mourning/ > > Hope it helps. > > -Helen/Aidan > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 18:03:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41M3HMx002386 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 18:03:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41M2gmB028012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 16:02:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41M2aGi075035; Sat, 1 May 2004 16:02:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net (starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41M2XGi075009 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 16:02:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.21.195.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.195] helo=HELENPINTO) by starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BK2Z6-0005S4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 May 2004 15:02:32 -0700 Message-ID: <025501c42fc7$fe5a88c0$c3159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume List" Subject: Fw: [h-cost] Mourning, was 1880-1890s costume books Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 18:02:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef36ca17f54163de6918d68a7fffd4b3ad350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It looks like there was a strange cut-off or wrap-around. Try these: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Quarter/2926/Mourning.html http://www.tchevalier.com/fallingangels/bckgrnd/index.html -Helen/Aidan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sylvia Rognstad" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 5:48 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mourning, was 1880-1890s costume books > > > > I could not view either of those pages. Just got messages that those > > sites could not be found. > > > > On May 1, 2004, at 3:30 PM, Helen Pinto wrote: > > > > > Look at the following; it has plenty of details concerning mourning > > > customs > > > and dress in Victorian America, with some mention of England. There > > > is a > > > bibliography at the end. > > > > > > www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Quarter/2926/ > > > Mourning.htmlwww.geocities.com/ > > > BourbonStreet/Quarter/2926/Mourning.html > > > > > > This one is very brief and looks like it deals with England. > > > > > > www.tchevalier.com/fallingangels/bckgrnd/mourning/www.tchevalier.com/ > > > falling > > > angels/bckgrnd/mourning/ > > > > > > Hope it helps. > > > > > > -Helen/Aidan > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 18:52:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41MqJMx002615 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 18:52:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41MkhmB000168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 16:46:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41MkeGi091784; Sat, 1 May 2004 16:46:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41MkcGi091770 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 16:46:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.116]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1BJyQv-0000y9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 May 2004 10:37:49 -0700 Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BJyQs-0003w2-00; Sat, 01 May 2004 10:37:47 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Saragrace T. Knauf'" , "'Historical Costume'" Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 10:37:52 -0700 Message-ID: <000301c42fa3$07eca320$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Silk Taffeta X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This fellow supposedly dyes to order. He used to claim to weave to order, but wasn't willing to weave what I wanted....??? http://www.anjoorian.com/samples.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 19:06:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41N6CMx002676 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 19:06:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41N4MmB000984 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 17:04:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41N4DGi098046; Sat, 1 May 2004 17:04:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41N4BGi098021 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 17:04:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from mail.ntw.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i41N3CC03609 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 17:03:12 -0600 Received: from 206.124.3.108 (SquirrelMail authenticated user sylvia) by mail.ntw.net with HTTP; Sat, 1 May 2004 17:03:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <50831.206.124.3.108.1083452592.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <025501c42fc7$fe5a88c0$c3159b04@HELENPINTO> References: <025501c42fc7$fe5a88c0$c3159b04@HELENPINTO> Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 17:03:12 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: Fw: [h-cost] Mourning, was 1880-1890s costume books From: sylvia@ntw.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you. Very helpful! > It looks like there was a strange cut-off or wrap-around. Try these: > > http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Quarter/2926/Mourning.html > > http://www.tchevalier.com/fallingangels/bckgrnd/index.html > > -Helen/Aidan > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sylvia Rognstad" >> To: "Historical Costume" >> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 5:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mourning, was 1880-1890s costume books >> >> >> > I could not view either of those pages. Just got messages that those >> > sites could not be found. >> > >> > On May 1, 2004, at 3:30 PM, Helen Pinto wrote: >> > >> > > Look at the following; it has plenty of details concerning mourning >> > > customs >> > > and dress in Victorian America, with some mention of England. There >> > > is a >> > > bibliography at the end. >> > > >> > > www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Quarter/2926/ >> > > Mourning.htmlwww.geocities.com/ >> > > BourbonStreet/Quarter/2926/Mourning.html >> > > >> > > This one is very brief and looks like it deals with England. >> > > >> > > www.tchevalier.com/fallingangels/bckgrnd/mourning/www.tchevalier.com/ >> > > falling >> > > angels/bckgrnd/mourning/ >> > > >> > > Hope it helps. >> > > >> > > -Helen/Aidan >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > h-costume mailing list >> > > h-costume@mail.indra.com >> > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > h-costume mailing list >> > h-costume@mail.indra.com >> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 19:12:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41NC0Mx002692 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 19:12:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41NAFmB001291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 17:10:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41NAEGi000546; Sat, 1 May 2004 17:10:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41NADGi000530 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 17:10:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B5322806B for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 18:10:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p063.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.65]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0A8F8C5FF for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 18:10:12 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric storage, mothballs for dummies Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 18:10:17 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <005d01c42f7e$3df270a0$7f5183d1@rmitchellras> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My friend said Odor-Ban works to get out the smell of moth balls. You find the product at SAM's. She uses a capful in the laundry to remove the smell. My grandmother's method was to air out the garment for a week. Arian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 19:52:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41NqfMx003598 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 19:52:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41NpOmB003190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 17:51:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41NpMGi014855; Sat, 1 May 2004 17:51:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41NpJGj014845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 17:51:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i420aqWm024404 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 20:36:53 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A7F59F0009C; Sat, 01 May 2004 19:51:17 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.122]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 1 May 2004 19:51:17 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c42fd8$07f42a20$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040430.065925.2932.64715@webmail01.lax.untd.com><01ad01c42f79$537fcfd0$5ba810ac@Kate><002401c42f94$b9ee8b60$705183d1@rmitchellras> <200405011603.14389.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 19:57:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2004 23:51:17.0644 (UTC) FILETIME=[31FE4CC0:01C42FD7] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One is a volume entitled "Becoming American Women" (Jewish women's Perspective) Another title(?) Scandinavian Immigrants of the Upper Peninsular. Also separate countries of the Low Lands, Russias and such. Will try to make a list. Fred Struthers seems to turn these up on a regular basis and they can be discovered in "Books on Cloth". Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo > On Saturday 01 May 2004 11:55 am, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > > The jacket length is somewhat of a puzzler > > except, if it was made up by an inexperienced seamstress. I have several > > resources for immigrant dress and some of them would point in the direction > > of accommodating an ethnic top to a fashionable interpretation. > > This possibility would not surprise me. However, I'm curious; what resources > do you have for immigrant dress? My grandparents all came to the US from > Eastern Europe around 1910-12. > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." > -Oscar Wilde > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 19:56:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41NudMx003703 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 19:56:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41NslmB003422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 17:54:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41NskGi016003; Sat, 1 May 2004 17:54:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes1.whowhere.com [209.202.220.218]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i41NsjGi015952 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 17:54:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Sat, 01 May 2004 23:54:34 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 23:54:34 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] hyena fabrics X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.65 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Bjarne Have tried The Designer FAbric Outlet (Orange Bag store) in Toronto, Canada? http://www.designerfabrics.to/ They have a rather large selection of interesting fabrcis. If you can't find a solid colour might I suggest a shot white and grey taffeta, it would give it a rich, almost metallic silver look. For example: http://www.designerfabrics.ca/cgi-bin/DCShops/dcshop.cgi?database=fabric&action=view_product&productID=71704&category=6SHTAF¤tNO=1 OR http://www.designerfabrics.ca/cgi-bin/DCShops/dcshop.cgi?database=fabric&action=view_product&productID=70537&category=6SHTAF¤tNO=11 For example they have a grey dupioni which might be an option... http://www.designerfabrics.ca/cgi-bin/DCShops/dcshop.cgi?database=fabric&action=view_product&productID=73740&category=16SKSLD¤tNO=11 Hope you find the right fabric. Cheers, Danielle --------- Origin Message --------- DATE: Sat, 1 May 2004 17:10:31 From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Cc: >Hi, >I have looked and looked and looked, it seems impossible to find a silk taffeta in the grey coulour i need for the courtdress. >I tryed http://www.hyenaproductions.com/index.html >And they have wonderfull produkts, in fact some ot thier striped ones could be the colour i need, but i cant find just solid colours in silk taffeta. I emailed them and asked, but they have not bothered to answer me. >Any chanse any of you know where i could find a light grey colour of taffeta? > >Bjarne > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 19:59:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i41NxfMx003780 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 19:59:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41NvxmB003598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 17:57:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41NvwGi017096; Sat, 1 May 2004 17:57:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i41NvuGj017088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 17:57:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i420hUWm029887 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 20:43:30 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A983A0F009C; Sat, 01 May 2004 19:57:55 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.122]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 1 May 2004 19:57:54 -0400 Message-ID: <001901c42fd8$f4d8b220$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006b01c42fc5$31d37160$0201a8c0@kimathlon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 20:03:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2004 23:57:55.0090 (UTC) FILETIME=[1EE3BF20:01C42FD8] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My guess is still about 1885. After viewing more than18 photos of that decade, those peculiar spit-curls of the brow with the very tight finger waves of the crown are mostly identified as "1885". Of course in her photograph, she might have chosen the style (in the early 90's) if she thought it was currently fashionable and correct. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 5:42 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Photo > > Cathy-- > > For late 1890's hair, think Gibson Girl--all puffed up. > > Kim > - > > Kim, you may have missed my earlier post, where I said I thought it was > either > early 1890s or very late 1890s. I don't know that much about > hairstyles of > the period, so I'm willing to take your word that she's wearing an 1890 > style. > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 1 22:00:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4220EMx007598 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 22:00:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i421xXmB008665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 19:59:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i421xSGi057915; Sat, 1 May 2004 19:59:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i421xMGi057878 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 19:59:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.116]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1BJn3C-0001DU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:28:34 -0700 Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BJn3B-0006wq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:28:33 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:28:37 -0700 Message-ID: <003101c42f3d$282c29f0$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i421xMGi057878 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A funny story was :What would a chameleon wear? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I was twelve oer thirteen, I lived in Hamburg, Germany (1972). One day, my sister, who was two years older, and my brother, who was four years younger , and I decided to have some fun with the 'Germans'. We had always been quickly identifiable by our dress, so we decided to do 'really ''freak'em'' out. We stood in front of our apartment dressed as crazily as we could. All I remember was my sister had on a wig (Cher like, bangs and long black hair; striped, ''wicked witch of the west'' stockings and soccer shoes ( with laces removed and tongues completely pulled out.) I don't remember at all what my brother and I had on but I am sure the costumes were equally weird. Guess what? NO one paid us ANY attention at all......it was like we were not there! (Okay, I guess that was a statement in of itself.) Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 00:02:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4242tMx010791 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 00:02:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4240KmB013682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 22:00:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4240CGi097552; Sat, 1 May 2004 22:00:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4240BGi097541 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 22:00:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i422euE11591 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 19:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BK6uV-0002Ll-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sat, 01 May 2004 19:40:55 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 19:41:02 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01c42fee$e8e91d90$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sorry about that late note. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know what is going on, but my mail is now taking 24 hours to reach the list sometimes..grrrr. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 01:26:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i425QJMx011016 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 01:26:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i425OUmB017060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 23:24:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i425OQGi025079; Sat, 1 May 2004 23:24:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i425OPGi025060 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 23:24:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0539839B9 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 00:24:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p451.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.197]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9E715D45A for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 00:24:23 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 00:24:29 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Ana Mendoza X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From another list. De -----Original Message----- If you go to this page for the parody newsletter in Trimaris: http://www.thequarter.org/issue22/page06.php there is a picture of Ana de Mendoza de la Cerda (1540-92), Princess of Eboli, Spanish noblewoman. She is wearing an eye patch. The underdress (?) or chemise has elbow length sleeves. She appears to be wearing a pearl choker necklace. I can't see the details of her dress. Does anyone has a color or at least clearer copy of the portrait? I don't even know the artist. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 01:28:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i425SdMx011032 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 01:28:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i425SCmB017184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 May 2004 23:28:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i425SBGi026244; Sat, 1 May 2004 23:28:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i425SBGi026220 for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 23:28:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06824 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 00:28:56 -0500 Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 00:28:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Amusement for Elizabethan aficionados X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Check it out quickly; it'll be gone after Sunday: http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/comics/archive/buildcp.mpl?v=3.0&page=1&quality=high&cpp=4&c=147 Note the ruff. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 02:01:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4261kMx011205 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 02:01:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4260BmB018338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 00:00:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42609Gi035839; Sun, 2 May 2004 00:00:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42606Gj035820 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 00:00:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4265ZXo015032 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 02:05:35 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i4265Ygl015030 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 2 May 2004 02:05:34 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 02:05:34 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <006b01c42fc5$31d37160$0201a8c0@kimathlon> In-Reply-To: <006b01c42fc5$31d37160$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405020205.34249.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 01 May 2004 05:42 pm, kim baird wrote: > Cathy-- > > For late 1890's hair, think Gibson Girl--all puffed up. That much I knew. However, your comment was to the effect that all the little curls Lisa's ancestor had in front was characteristic of 1890. That I hadn't known. -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 02:05:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4265IMx011252 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 02:05:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4261XmB018384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 00:01:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4261WGi036267; Sun, 2 May 2004 00:01:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4261UGj036254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 00:01:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4266wXo015047 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 02:06:58 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i4266vIC015045 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 2 May 2004 02:06:57 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 02:06:57 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <20040430.065925.2932.64715@webmail01.lax.untd.com> <200405011603.14389.cathy@thyrsus.com> <000b01c42fd8$07f42a20$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <000b01c42fd8$07f42a20$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405020206.57325.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 01 May 2004 07:57 pm, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > One is a volume entitled "Becoming American Women" (Jewish women's > Perspective) Another title(?) Scandinavian Immigrants of the Upper > Peninsular. Also separate countries of the Low Lands, Russias and such. > Will try to make a list. Fred Struthers seems to turn these up on a > regular basis and they can be discovered in "Books on Cloth". I don't remember seeing those in the latest edition of "Books on Cloth"; guess I'll have to check more closely. Thanks! -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 06:25:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42AP3Mx024758 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 06:25:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42AOSmB026739 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 04:24:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42AOQGi017256; Sun, 2 May 2004 04:24:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42AOOGi017235 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 04:24:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f84.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.132]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E171C47FE80 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 12:24:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003e01c4302f$aa6309f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 12:24:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Ribbon bras X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i42AP3Mx024758 Status: RO Hi, Just wanted you to see this projekt. Some ladies has made a competition in decorating bras with ribbon embroidery. Some of them are beautifull.............. http://www.ribbonsmyth.com/ Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 06:25:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42APTMx024761 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 06:25:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42ANemB026716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 04:23:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42AN7Gi016886; Sun, 2 May 2004 04:23:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42AN2Gi016860 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 04:23:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f84.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.132]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 205BA26285B for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 12:22:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003501c4302f$75c92850$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] hyena fabrics Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 12:23:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Danielle, Hope you are well. Thanks for the tip with Designerfabrics. The second one you gave costs 30 dollars a meter, it is so beautifull and would be very well for this projekt. Thanks a lot. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 11:54 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] hyena fabrics > Hi Bjarne > > Have tried The Designer FAbric Outlet (Orange Bag store) in Toronto, Canada? > http://www.designerfabrics.to/ > They have a rather large selection of interesting fabrcis. If you can't find a solid colour might I suggest a shot white and grey taffeta, it would give it a rich, almost metallic silver look. > For example: > http://www.designerfabrics.ca/cgi-bin/DCShops/dcshop.cgi?database=fabric&action=view_product&productID=71704&category=6SHTAF¤tNO=1 > > OR > http://www.designerfabrics.ca/cgi-bin/DCShops/dcshop.cgi?database=fabric&action=view_product&productID=70537&category=6SHTAF¤tNO=11 > > For example they have a grey dupioni which might be an option... > http://www.designerfabrics.ca/cgi-bin/DCShops/dcshop.cgi?database=fabric&action=view_product&productID=73740&category=16SKSLD¤tNO=11 > > Hope you find the right fabric. > > Cheers, > Danielle > --------- Origin Message --------- > > DATE: Sat, 1 May 2004 17:10:31 > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > To: > Cc: > > >Hi, > >I have looked and looked and looked, it seems impossible to find a silk taffeta in the grey coulour i need for the courtdress. > >I tryed http://www.hyenaproductions.com/index.html > >And they have wonderfull produkts, in fact some ot thier striped ones could be the colour i need, but i cant find just solid colours in silk taffeta. I emailed them and asked, but they have not bothered to answer me. > >Any chanse any of you know where i could find a light grey colour of taffeta? > > > >Bjarne > > > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews > >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > Need a new email address that people can remember > Check out the new EudoraMail at > http://www.eudoramail.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 07:37:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42BbiMx025033 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 07:37:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42Ba1mB028596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 05:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42BZxGi038676; Sun, 2 May 2004 05:35:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42BZtGi038651 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 05:35:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-87-151.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.87.151]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i42BZq4b004997 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 06:35:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040502040713.0210d620@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 04:10:23 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ribbon bras In-Reply-To: <003e01c4302f$aa6309f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Just wanted you to see this projekt. Some ladies has made a competition in >decorating bras with ribbon embroidery. Some of them are >beautifull.............. >http://www.ribbonsmyth.com/ Thank you for the heads up. I looked at the exhibition schedule, and I will get to see these in person at the Pacific International Quilt Festival in October in Santa Clara, California. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 07:58:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42BwYMx025135 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 07:58:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42BvimB029124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 05:57:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42BvhGi045163; Sun, 2 May 2004 05:57:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42BveGj045147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 05:57:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i42ChMWm031608 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 08:43:22 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A2321E6F008A; Sun, 02 May 2004 07:57:38 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.128]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sun, 2 May 2004 07:57:38 -0400 Message-ID: <000d01c4303d$81151f80$805183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006b01c42fc5$31d37160$0201a8c0@kimathlon> <200405020205.34249.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 08:03:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 May 2004 11:57:38.0652 (UTC) FILETIME=[AA4C61C0:01C4303C] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO All the little plastered curls are a feature of the mid '80's. By the ninety, they become fluffy in the mode that was called the 'lunatic fringe'. And the back hair is piled up into a chignon. Kathleen (At least this seems to be what my photos show. Also, the Courson book of hair styles through the ages shows this development, too.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 2:05 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo > On Saturday 01 May 2004 05:42 pm, kim baird wrote: > > Cathy-- > > > > For late 1890's hair, think Gibson Girl--all puffed up. > > That much I knew. However, your comment was to the effect that all the little > curls Lisa's ancestor had in front was characteristic of 1890. That I hadn't > known. > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." > -Oscar Wilde > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 07:59:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42BxSMx025150 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 07:59:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42BwdmB029165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 05:58:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42BwdGi045395; Sun, 2 May 2004 05:58:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42BwaGj045376 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 05:58:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i42CiIWm000444 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 08:44:18 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A26B1E75008A; Sun, 02 May 2004 07:58:35 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.128]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sun, 2 May 2004 07:58:34 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c4303d$a2930960$805183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040430.065925.2932.64715@webmail01.lax.untd.com><200405011603.14389.cathy@thyrsus.com><000b01c42fd8$07f42a20$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> <200405020206.57325.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 08:04:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 May 2004 11:58:35.0104 (UTC) FILETIME=[CBF24600:01C4303C] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They were there in the past, and he may not have additional copies at this time. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo > On Saturday 01 May 2004 07:57 pm, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > One is a volume entitled "Becoming American Women" (Jewish women's > > Perspective) Another title(?) Scandinavian Immigrants of the Upper > > Peninsular. Also separate countries of the Low Lands, Russias and such. > > Will try to make a list. Fred Struthers seems to turn these up on a > > regular basis and they can be discovered in "Books on Cloth". > > I don't remember seeing those in the latest edition of "Books on Cloth"; guess > I'll have to check more closely. Thanks! > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." > -Oscar Wilde > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 08:02:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42C20Mx025188 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 08:02:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42C1FmB029300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 06:01:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42C1EGi046270; Sun, 2 May 2004 06:01:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42C1DGj046260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 06:01:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i42CksWm005625 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 08:46:54 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A3071E85008A; Sun, 02 May 2004 08:01:11 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.128]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sun, 2 May 2004 08:01:10 -0400 Message-ID: <001e01c4303d$ffbf9360$805183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003e01c4302f$aa6309f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ribbon bras Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 08:07:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 May 2004 12:01:11.0182 (UTC) FILETIME=[28F9E2E0:01C4303D] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wonderful...I liked the first on which I would call,"Hills and Valleys" Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 6:24 AM Subject: [h-cost] Ribbon bras Hi, Just wanted you to see this projekt. Some ladies has made a competition in decorating bras with ribbon embroidery. Some of them are beautifull.............. http://www.ribbonsmyth.com/ Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 08:53:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42CreMx025584 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 08:53:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42CqZmB000919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 06:52:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42CqXGi062244; Sun, 2 May 2004 06:52:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m03.lax.untd.com (m03.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i42CqVGi062200 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 06:52:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa58@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 9q05Lp5l6pU14shT5B1ERnHivCzTt/G0XPzohemC7hpI5qN9fads8Q== Received: (from lisa58@juno.com) by m03.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JUMKDB9D; Sun, 02 May 2004 05:51:36 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 09:17:36 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Message-ID: <20040502.084822.-356355.1.lisa58@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-6,11-12,14-15,21-22 From: Lisa A Ashton X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Again thanks everyone for your comments, I am really enjoying it, esp. since I know next to nothing about styles from this period (encompassing 1870, which might be the earliest, to the 1890's). Unfortunately, my mother is the only one left (the photo would have been of her grandmother, whom she barely knew), as my grandmother died when I was only 8 back int he 1960's. It's quite possible it's a borrowed dress (maybe one the phtographer had on hand?). IS she pregnant?--I thought of that, and I suppose it's possible. I'm definitely going to try what Robin suggested, that is, to go to the Ellis Island sites online and see if there is anything (I'm not even sure I know her last name). Possibly my mom remembers something. The photo itself is tightly glued onto a thick cardboard backing. Wonder if it's worthwhile trying to get it off? What sort of fabric would the dress have been? IT looks like some sort of wool to me, texture-wise. My idea is to reproduce it in brown with black for the trim, and present it on stage as a sepia print, matching the make-up. I even already have a presentation to go with it, just need to figure out some musical background. Any idea about a pattern to start with and modify? Yours in costuming, Lisa A. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 12:16:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42GGWMx026558 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 12:16:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42GFwmB008320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 10:15:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42GFlGi032036; Sun, 2 May 2004 10:15:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42GFjGi032028 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 10:15:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i42Fu1E23730 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 08:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from user-33qtk1i.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.208.50] helo=pavilion) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BKJJv-0001E0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 02 May 2004 08:55:59 -0700 Message-ID: <005901c4305f$e7f906e0$2729a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4093B39B.B7FE0BA4@charter.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early renaissance belts and shoes Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 09:09:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try the National Portrait Gallery at www.npg.org.uk They have a searchable index (search the website) and display the images too. I don't know how much they have on the Scottish highlands though. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Robertson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 7:26 AM Subject: [h-cost] Early renaissance belts and shoes > I would like to find some good pictoral examples of upper class girdles > (and footwear) from the early to mid 1500's, such that would be > appropriate for trips to town. Any suggestions on helpful sites? I am > targeting western europe, specifically the Scottish highlands. > Cheers, > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 13:38:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42HcuMx027218 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 13:38:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42HZnmB011689 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 11:35:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42HZlGi062496; Sun, 2 May 2004 11:35:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [69.17.45.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42HZkGi062484 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 11:35:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Received: from [192.168.1.5] (adsl-64-160-176-170.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.170]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E4542F8CE for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 10:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <000501c42fc3$db789ee0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <001501c42fbb$a39aaf70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <001601c42fc0$930bb1e0$0202a8c0@hopperflop2> <000501c42fc3$db789ee0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <245A1DCE-9C5F-11D8-B1ED-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk taffeta Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 10:35:45 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne -- I second the recommendation for C&J, they are wonderful to work with and ship the same day. We order from them twice a week at work... .heather. On May 1, 2004, at 2:32 PM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Dear Kendra, > Thanks for your help. Pricey? do you call 16,50 dollars expensive for > a yard > of taffeta? > Here in Denmark we pay doubble the price! > > Bjarne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kendra Van Cleave" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 11:09 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk taffeta > > >> Hey Bjarne, >> >> There's a company called C&J Textiles based in New York City that has >> an >> amazing range of silk colors and would probably have what you need. >> They >> don't have a website and are somewhat pricey (60" silk taffeta is >> $16.50/yard), but if you call or write and tell them that you're a >> professional costumer (in other words, that you sew for other people) >> they >> will send you their color cards, and then you could mail/phone order >> what >> you need. Make sure you ask specifically for their taffeta swatch >> cards, > as >> the taffeta isn't on their general silk swatch card. >> >> If you're interested, here's their contact info: >> >> C&J Textiles >> 230 West 38th St., 7th floor >> New York NY 10018 >> 212-354-0040 >> >> - Kendra >> http://demode.tweedlebop.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 13:46:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42HkJMx027252 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 13:46:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42HibmB012112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 11:44:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42HibGi065683; Sun, 2 May 2004 11:44:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42HiZGi065653 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 11:44:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from IceGirlNIN@aol.com) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1ce.1ff04de6 (18555) for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 13:44:25 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <1ce.1ff04de6.2dc68d79@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 13:44:25 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk taffeta To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5006 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/2/2004 1:36:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, alice@wonderland.com writes: >Bjarne -- I second the recommendation for C&J, they are wonderful to >work with and ship the same day. We order from them twice a week at >work... >.heather. Do you happen to know if C&J sells shot/iridescent silk taffeta? I've been looking everywhere for blue silk taffeta shot with black, and the one place I found it wanted $31/yard. Given that I need six or so yards, $31 is a little too painful for a single yard! Does C&J have a minimum order, by the way? Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 13:52:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42Hq6Mx027279 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 13:52:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42HpLmB012372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 11:51:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42HpKGi068147; Sun, 2 May 2004 11:51:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net (aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42HpIGi068137 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 11:51:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.50]) by aftermath.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1BKHdA-0001Qq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 02 May 2004 07:07:44 -0700 Received: from 209-165-41-039.jps.net ([209.165.41.39] helo=pavilion) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BKHd9-0005Cm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 02 May 2004 07:07:44 -0700 Message-ID: <000701c43050$c818c540$2729a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040430.065925.2932.64715@webmail01.lax.untd.com><200405011603.14389.cathy@thyrsus.com><000b01c42fd8$07f42a20$7a5183d1@rmitchellras><200405020206.57325.cathy@thyrsus.com> <001301c4303d$a2930960$805183d1@rmitchellras> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 07:21:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Word and Image: The Trevelyon Miscellany of 1608 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A kind soul who viewed my website where I mentioned "Miscellany by Thomas Trevelyon. Published in 1608. I've never seen this book, but it is mentioned in Janet Arnold's Book, Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd. Said to reside in the Folger Shakespeare Library, Washington, D.C. " has sent me the following link to a current exhibit at the Folger Shakespeare Library. There is a small online sampling of images from this book, including an embroidery pattern for a cap. Runs through May 22nd. Does anyone know if this book has ever been reprinted? I'd love a copy. 600 pages, printed in the early 17th century, has 100 pages of embroidery patterns, including 20 cap patterns. http://www.folger.edu/public/exhibit/current.asp Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 13:57:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42HvBMx027304 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 13:57:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42HtSmB012588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 11:55:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42HtQGi069519; Sun, 2 May 2004 11:55:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [69.17.45.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42HtOGi069504 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 11:55:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Received: from [192.168.1.5] (adsl-64-160-176-170.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.170]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2C8D2F8CF for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 10:57:17 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <1ce.1ff04de6.2dc68d79@aol.com> References: <1ce.1ff04de6.2dc68d79@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk taffeta Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 10:55:24 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They don't sell iridescent, and they don't have minimums. Sorry! On May 2, 2004, at 10:44 AM, IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/2/2004 1:36:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, > alice@wonderland.com writes: >> Bjarne -- I second the recommendation for C&J, they are wonderful to >> work with and ship the same day. We order from them twice a week at >> work... > >> .heather. > > > Do you happen to know if C&J sells shot/iridescent silk taffeta? I've > been > looking everywhere for blue silk taffeta shot with black, and the one > place I > found it wanted $31/yard. Given that I need six or so yards, $31 is a > little > too painful for a single yard! Does C&J have a minimum order, by the > way? > > Christine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 14:19:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42IJ0Mx027410 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 14:19:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42IHDmB013839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 12:17:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42IHAGi077813; Sun, 2 May 2004 12:17:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42IH8Gi077657 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 12:17:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com ([66.155.243.174]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i42IGoKX015327 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 14:16:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.3.0.0.20040502135533.05fdc7e0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 14:15:56 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Trousseau case? Modern "steamer trunk"? Something else? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just saw a *very interesting* and quite inexpensive piece of (modern) luggage which, if I can find the place to store, I just might indulge myself with. On the outside, it looks a lot like a "car pack" from the 1960's, but with the built-in rolling setup of today's luggage. The fellow selling it said it was a "garment bag". Biggest "garment bag" I ever saw (bigger than a full-sized Pullman)... I opened it up and looked at it. Two sides, zipper. Could be two separate suitcase-type compartments, or a suitcase with a hanging-clothes side, no? Well, both sides unzippered to garment hanger mechanisms. One side had a single garment-hanger rack, the other had twin garment-hanger racks. The single-rack side had a pair of those little triangular zipper compartments. The sides opposite the hanger areas, folded out *twice*, which I estimate would fit a full-length gown. The fold-segments had elastic-and zipper constraints to keep the garment(s) in place, plus there was a wide mesh adjustable constraint at the middle of the suitcase segment and a padded constraint bar at the "bottom" of each segment (just before the fold-out sections). Once folded, the side with the dual hanger-rack had a set of pockets to fit in a pair of shoes. There were other various compartments in which accessories, etc. could be stored. It looks to me as if the single-hanger compartment might have been intended to fit a wedding gown, and the double-hanger compartment, a separate train and veil. Failing that, the closest analog I can think of is an old-fashioned steamer trunk for going on sea voyages -- except without the dresser/drawer area. I'm thinking this might be useful for traveling with a weekend's worth of Elizabethan gowns, though I'm not sure if/how easily the hoops will fold into it. At any rate, the price is low enough that the biggest cost to me will be storing it. Any other ideas on this interesting piece of luggage? Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 14:48:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42ImFMx027504 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 14:48:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42IlemB015235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 12:47:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42IlbGi090516; Sun, 2 May 2004 12:47:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i42IlaGi090503 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 12:47:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2004 18:40:56 -0000 Message-ID: <013b01c43075$07a75450$91e67643@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006b01c42fc5$31d37160$0201a8c0@kimathlon><200405020205.34249.cathy@thyrsus.com> <000d01c4303d$81151f80$805183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hairstyles through the ages? Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 11:40:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can you provide the name of the book by Courson? Is it available or out of print? angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > (At least this seems to be what my photos show. Also, the Courson book of > hair styles through the ages shows this development, too.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 15:12:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42JCkMx027648 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 15:12:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42JCJmB016740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 13:12:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42JCGGi099850; Sun, 2 May 2004 13:12:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i42JCFGi099813 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 13:12:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCj4Oyb7uSQ+tEhL9K1EIb8JpxoBIvIH6Gw== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JUM85MGR; Sun, 02 May 2004 12:11:52 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 14:13:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trousseau case? Modern "steamer trunk"? Something else? Message-ID: <20040502.141330.-152249649.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: seamstrix@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sounds great! My only questions are: A) Where do you find it? B) How much is it? Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 15:55:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42JtqMx027957 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 15:55:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42JslmB018566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 13:54:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42JsbGi016250; Sun, 2 May 2004 13:54:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42JsYGj016219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 13:54:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i42KeLWm016789 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 16:40:21 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A1F6265B00AA; Sun, 02 May 2004 15:54:30 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.103]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sun, 2 May 2004 15:54:29 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c43080$1f00a6a0$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040502.084822.-356355.1.lisa58@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 16:00:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 May 2004 19:54:29.0654 (UTC) FILETIME=[47C8D360:01C4307F] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I first started collecting photos, I was obsessed with the idea that all 'old cardboard' was nasty and so spent a couple of days trying to remove the picture from the mountings. All developed pics are not on the same paper. Some is obviously thinner than others and should (from my point of view) be left well enough alone, if the backing seems sturdy and not problematical. When the pics in question have lasted 100yrs or more and don't show signs of acid damage, "leave it be." My guess of the fabric is that it is of a mm weight wool crepe. When you decide if the bodice is to be copied as presented in your picture or as you presume it was intended, I would take a look at Costume@patterns of time.com and choose TV221 for the skirt(with modifications and Tv460 for the jacket. They both fall in the period of the 1880/90's period and would reflect the original styles with the modifications that have been suggested as of the origination of the garment in the picture. How fortunate to have the resource of the braid work that came in so strongly when I first downloaded the image! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa A Ashton" To: Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo > Again thanks everyone for your comments, I am really enjoying it, esp. > since I know next to nothing about styles from this period (encompassing > 1870, which might be the earliest, to the 1890's). Unfortunately, my > mother is the only one left (the photo would have been of her > grandmother, whom she barely knew), as my grandmother died when I was > only 8 back int he 1960's. > > It's quite possible it's a borrowed dress (maybe one the phtographer had > on hand?). IS she pregnant?--I thought of that, and I suppose it's > possible. I'm definitely going to try what Robin suggested, that is, to > go to the Ellis Island sites online and see if there is anything (I'm not > even sure I know her last name). Possibly my mom remembers something. > > The photo itself is tightly glued onto a thick cardboard backing. Wonder > if it's worthwhile trying to get it off? > > What sort of fabric would the dress have been? IT looks like some sort > of wool to me, texture-wise. My idea is to reproduce it in brown with > black for the trim, and present it on stage as a sepia print, matching > the make-up. I even already have a presentation to go with it, just need > to figure out some musical background. Any idea about a pattern to start > with and modify? > > Yours in costuming, Lisa A. > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 16:11:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42KBAMx028069 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 16:11:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42K9XmB019194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 14:09:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42K9VGi021752; Sun, 2 May 2004 14:09:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42K9UGj021742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 14:09:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i42KtHWm000964 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 16:55:17 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A57726E200AA; Sun, 02 May 2004 16:09:27 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.103]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sun, 2 May 2004 16:09:27 -0400 Message-ID: <002101c43082$36683fe0$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006b01c42fc5$31d37160$0201a8c0@kimathlon><200405020205.34249.cathy@thyrsus.com><000d01c4303d$81151f80$805183d1@rmitchellras> <013b01c43075$07a75450$91e67643@lazear1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hairstyles through the ages? Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 16:15:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 May 2004 20:09:27.0705 (UTC) FILETIME=[5F108890:01C43081] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From my 'theatrical library', "Fashions in Hair", the first five thousand years; Peter Owen. London. Published 1965, Peter Owen Limited C Richard Corson, 1965 Wonderful book! Drawings are not great, but I love chasing down the original drawings and illustrations that have been redrawn for the book. The Biblio includes Museums, books and periodicals for documentation. My complete copy is almost 700 pages. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hairstyles through the ages? > Can you provide the name of the book by Courson? Is it available or out of > print? > > angela > +++++ > Angela F. Lazear > Cabbage Rose Costumes > www.cabbagerosecostumes.com > Theatrical Costume Design > > "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: > be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, > and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: > be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." > W. Shakespeare > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > > > (At least this seems to be what my photos show. Also, the Courson book of > > hair styles through the ages shows this development, too.) > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 16:24:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42KO6Mx028121 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 16:24:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42KMEmB019723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 14:22:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42KMDGi026817; Sun, 2 May 2004 14:22:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42KMBGi026735 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 14:22:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58A6C4264A for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 15:40:16 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40955BC0.1010301@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 15:36:16 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo References: <20040502.084822.-356355.1.lisa58@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20040502.084822.-356355.1.lisa58@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa A Ashton wrote: > > The photo itself is tightly glued onto a thick cardboard backing. Wonder > if it's worthwhile trying to get it off? I wouldn't. It probably came that way and would only stress the photo. > > What sort of fabric would the dress have been? IT looks like some sort > of wool to me, texture-wise. Very likely wool but I'm not knowledgeable about weaves. As for books, pick up 'Victorian Costume for Ladies 1860-1900.' Starts earlier than your time frame, but covers all the decades very well. Recently released, so it should be easy to find. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 17:08:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42L8uMx028351 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 17:08:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42L77mB022044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 15:07:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42L75Gi044387; Sun, 2 May 2004 15:07:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.k12.hi.us (honu.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.214]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42L73Gi044343 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 15:07:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from makani (makani.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.195]) by smtp.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id B953B506D8 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 11:02:04 -1000 (HST) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 11:04:56 -1000 (HST) From: annora X-X-Sender: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Word and Image: The Trevelyon Miscellany of 1608 In-Reply-To: <000701c43050$c818c540$2729a5d1@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > A kind soul who viewed my website where I mentioned "Miscellany by Thomas > Trevelyon. Published in 1608. I've seen references to what sounds like the same book referred to as the Commonplace Book. Also by Thomas Trevelyon and published in 1608. I haven't been able to track down any leads on facsimiles or reprints either, alas. > 100 pages of embroidery patterns, including 20 cap patterns. 14 of the cap panel patterns (reduced to about 1" in height) are reproduced in The Embroiderer's Flowers by Thomasina Beck. There are also patterns for the bands for two of them. If enlarged on a scanner or photocopier, they'd probably be clear enough to give the general design and some of the details too. --annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 18:20:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42MKSMx028749 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 18:20:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42MJ0mB025447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 16:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42MIqGi072153; Sun, 2 May 2004 16:18:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes1.whowhere.com [209.202.220.218]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i42MIoGi072091 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 16:18:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Sun, 02 May 2004 22:18:31 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 22:18:31 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] hyena fabrics X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.65 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Bjarne, You're welcome. I always try to promote Canadian companies when possible. Cheers, Danielle --------- Original Message --------- >Hi Danielle, >Hope you are well. Thanks for the tip with Designerfabrics. The second one >you gave costs 30 dollars a meter, it is so beautifull and would be very >well for this projekt. >Thanks a lot. > >Bjarne > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 11:54 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] hyena fabrics > > >> Hi Bjarne >> >> Have tried The Designer FAbric Outlet (Orange Bag store) in Toronto, >Canada? >> http://www.designerfabrics.to/ >> They have a rather large selection of interesting fabrcis. If you can't >find a solid colour might I suggest a shot white and grey taffeta, it would >give it a rich, almost metallic silver look. >> For example: >> >http://www.designerfabrics.ca/cgi-bin/DCShops/dcshop.cgi?database=fabric&action=view_product&productID=71704&category=6SHTAF¤tNO=1 >> >> OR >> >http://www.designerfabrics.ca/cgi-bin/DCShops/dcshop.cgi?database=fabric&action=view_product&productID=70537&category=6SHTAF¤tNO=11 >> >> For example they have a grey dupioni which might be an option... >> >http://www.designerfabrics.ca/cgi-bin/DCShops/dcshop.cgi?database=fabric&action=view_product&productID=73740&category=16SKSLD¤tNO=11 >> >> Hope you find the right fabric. >> >> Cheers, >> Danielle >> --------- Origin Message --------- >> >> DATE: Sat, 1 May 2004 17:10:31 >> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" >> To: >> Cc: >> >> >Hi, >> >I have looked and looked and looked, it seems impossible to find a silk >taffeta in the grey coulour i need for the courtdress. >> >I tryed http://www.hyenaproductions.com/index.html >> >And they have wonderfull produkts, in fact some ot thier striped ones >could be the colour i need, but i cant find just solid colours in silk >taffeta. I emailed them and asked, but they have not bothered to answer me. >> >Any chanse any of you know where i could find a light grey colour of >taffeta? >> > >> >Bjarne >> > >> > >> > >> >Leif og Bjarne Drews >> >www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> > >> >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >_______________________________________________ >> >h-costume mailing list >> >h-costume@mail.indra.com >> >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >> >> >> >> Need a new email address that people can remember >> Check out the new EudoraMail at >> http://www.eudoramail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 19:34:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42NYAMx029236 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 19:34:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42NXXmB029564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 17:33:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42NXVGi002189; Sun, 2 May 2004 17:33:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42NXQGi002136 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 17:33:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a25.in-tch.com [66.62.107.5]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i42N9kj19333 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 17:09:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4095861C.6000903@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 17:37:00 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trousseau case? Modern "steamer trunk"? Something else? References: <4.1.20040502125719.0206ded0@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.1.20040502125719.0206ded0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That would depend a lot on what one is using for the hoop stiffening, wouldn't it? If you were using rope of some sort, or stuffed tubes, they ought to be just fine. All bets are off, though, if you're using willow or wood or metal....;o) When I did Elizabethan, my farthingale was stiffened with "hoops" of flexible vinyl tubing (normally used in some sort of plumbing). Worked great, twisted into a neat, flat parcel for packing into a suitcase... --sue Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > I'm not sure if/how easily the hoops will fold > > They ought to fold very easily - and stay folded. As in, the folds won't > come out afterwards. I'd advise a different place for putting the hoops. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 19:54:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i42Ns1Mx029322 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 19:54:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42NIQmB028784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 17:18:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42NIKGi095957; Sun, 2 May 2004 17:18:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i42NIJGi095948 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 17:18:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-87-66.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.87.66]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i42NIEdY010705 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 16:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040502125719.0206ded0@mail.frys.com> Message-Id: <4.1.20040502125719.0206ded0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 12:58:41 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trousseau case? Modern "steamer trunk"? Something else? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20040502135533.05fdc7e0@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not sure if/how easily the hoops will fold They ought to fold very easily - and stay folded. As in, the folds won't come out afterwards. I'd advise a different place for putting the hoops. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 20:05:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4305wMx029356 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 20:05:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4305OmB001583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 18:05:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4301kGi013566; Sun, 2 May 2004 18:03:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4301TGi013476 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 18:01:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.133.232]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A41E705C2 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 17:01:28 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 17:01:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trousseau case? Modern "steamer trunk"? Something else? Message-ID: <4095296A.19923.55FFC9F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4095861C.6000903@in-tch.com> References: <4.1.20040502125719.0206ded0@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > That would depend a lot on what one is using for the hoop stiffening, > wouldn't it? If you were using rope of some sort, or stuffed tubes, > they ought to be just fine. All bets are off, though, if you're using > willow or wood or metal....;o) When I did Elizabethan, my farthingale > was stiffened with "hoops" of flexible vinyl tubing (normally used in > some sort of plumbing). Worked great, twisted into a neat, flat > parcel for packing into a suitcase... --sue I use standard hoop boning and they twist/coil to fit nicely into my clothes bags. Even my big 18th C panniers have no problem. Then they just pop right out to the correct shape when I pull them out. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 23:21:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i433LWMx030161 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 23:21:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i433KnmB012563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 21:20:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i433KcGi094198; Sun, 2 May 2004 21:20:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i433KaGi094183 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 21:20:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F3181D05D for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 22:20:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t2p303.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.49]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 07CABD4B0 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 22:20:35 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 22:20:43 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1700's dress ? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have this Butterick pattern 3640. Is this a loose rendition of mid to late 1700s French? And is the ruffle at the hem common with this style. This is not my area of interest so I am asking. http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.page.4&TI=10013&M= &pageSize=9&UK=31998842 De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 2 23:50:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i433oDMx030268 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 23:50:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i433nRmB014315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 21:49:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i433nNGi005820; Sun, 2 May 2004 21:49:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i433nKGi005764 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 21:49:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 4D6115CC002; Sun, 2 May 2004 23:49:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0019.floodcity.net [198.93.211.19]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EEAA5CC09D for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 23:49:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4095C0F4.E9F35B5C@floodcity.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 23:48:04 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo References: <20040430.075112.-564341.3.lisa58@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been following this thread off and on all week while I was going crazy with my tea (party) which I pulled off yesterday to rave reviews, even if I DID use plastic spoons to serve the jelly and paper plates. LOL I FINALLY went to look at the photo in question and *I* got to wondering if the dress in question wasn't added to in a sort of yoke thing, to lengthen the skirt. the braid design could then have been added to try to tie the whole thing together. This could be in keeping with the idea of a handmedown dress or with the idea of altering an ethnic dress to suit a more fashionable image when they got to this country. I'm sure I've seen many pictures of women who just arrived with shorter skirts, sort of country length suitable for working outdoors. the most noticable thing about this dress in my ignorant view is the fact that the peplum seems to be riding on the hips like a lowriding belt, which is what made me think of a lengthened silohette. if I am not "reading" the photo right then ignore me. LOL Kitty Lisa A Ashton wrote: > > Hello-- > > Here is the photo that I am trying to use to reproduce this costume. I > only have the one photo. It is posted at > http://www.oldwaylane.net/ukrainian.html since this morning. Thank you > to Judy Mitchell for her help posting it at this site. > > Although I suspected it was about turn of the century, someone who has > looked at it thinks it may be earlier, about 1880's (possible) and that > the dress may well have been one re-made from an earlier bustle dress. > Again, any help or ideas are welcomed! > > Thanks, > Yours in costuming, Lisa A. > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 3 00:55:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i434tGMx030521 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 00:55:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i434ngmB017786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 May 2004 22:49:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i434ndGi029746; Sun, 2 May 2004 22:49:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i434naGi029681 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 22:49:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Rampant_Peacock@comcast.net) Received: from molly (c-67-170-26-145.client.comcast.net[67.170.26.145]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004050304492901500i0fn5e>; Mon, 3 May 2004 04:49:29 +0000 From: "Molly Boone" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Photo Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 21:47:23 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <4095C0F4.E9F35B5C@floodcity.net> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I hadn't really noticed it before since this is certainly not my area of focus, but the braid pattern has a break and then change at the "bulge" on the hip line. I could be making a completely ignorant suggestion here but if this dress belongs to a country cousin that reworked her "Sunday best" to be more city fashionable does it seem feasible that the skirt was lengthened with a yoke and the jacket also lengthened to hide the addition to the skirt with maybe a removed shawl that was originally made to match or close. 2 added seams in that location maybe a decent explanation for the bulge and the braid pattern changing. Molly -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Kitty Felton Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:48 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo I've been following this thread off and on all week while I was going crazy with my tea (party) which I pulled off yesterday to rave reviews, even if I DID use plastic spoons to serve the jelly and paper plates. LOL I FINALLY went to look at the photo in question and *I* got to wondering if the dress in question wasn't added to in a sort of yoke thing, to lengthen the skirt. the braid design could then have been added to try to tie the whole thing together. This could be in keeping with the idea of a handmedown dress or with the idea of altering an ethnic dress to suit a more fashionable image when they got to this country. I'm sure I've seen many pictures of women who just arrived with shorter skirts, sort of country length suitable for working outdoors. the most noticable thing about this dress in my ignorant view is the fact that the peplum seems to be riding on the hips like a lowriding belt, which is what made me think of a lengthened silohette. if I am not "reading" the photo right then ignore me. LOL Kitty Lisa A Ashton wrote: > > Hello-- > > Here is the photo that I am trying to use to reproduce this costume. I > only have the one photo. It is posted at > http://www.oldwaylane.net/ukrainian.html since this morning. Thank you > to Judy Mitchell for her help posting it at this site. > > Although I suspected it was about turn of the century, someone who has > looked at it thinks it may be earlier, about 1880's (possible) and that > the dress may well have been one re-made from an earlier bustle dress. > Again, any help or ideas are welcomed! > > Thanks, > Yours in costuming, Lisa A. > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 3 07:57:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i43BvfMx025773 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 07:57:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43BtSmB005058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 05:55:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43BtJGi083693; Mon, 3 May 2004 05:55:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m03.lax.untd.com (m03.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i43BtGGi083606 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 05:55:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa58@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 9q05Lp5l6pU14shT5B1ERhkuiXP+0uGRyZKo/L9K0D4EethOvv5pRw== Received: (from lisa58@juno.com) by m03.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JUP2HXWY; Mon, 03 May 2004 04:54:44 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 07:46:36 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Message-ID: <20040503.074640.-503341.1.lisa58@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5,7-8 From: Lisa A Ashton X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not positive I understand what you mean by a "yoke" referring to a skirt. Do you mean that like a yoke on a blouse, it would lie flat at the waistband and for about 6 inches and then the pleats or gathers would be taken up, effectively smoothing out the abdomen but retaining the fuller skirt look? I had initially though that the skirt would just be cut out in 6 gores, wider at the bottom. Yours in costuming, Lisa A. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 3 08:52:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i43CqgMx027433 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 08:52:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43CoBmB007465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 06:50:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43CoAGi004876; Mon, 3 May 2004 06:50:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i43Co7Gi004822 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 06:50:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCj4Oyb7uSQ+tYcgmHn+hGE7U1pIZ+dZ7DA== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JUP5L4GG; Mon, 03 May 2004 05:48:53 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 07:49:02 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Message-ID: <20040503.074902.-451177.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,14-16 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been sitting out this debate but I feel that I must finally put in my tuppence of opinion. I believe this dress dates from 1889-1892. In "Victorian Costume For Ladies" by Linda Setnik there is a photograph on page 133 which is very, very similar to the outfit in question. The combination of very fitted bodice with the almost vertical puff at the sleeve head would seem to put it pretty firmly in this time period. Bodices were fitted and trimmed prior to this, but the sleeve head was always smooth. The little puff didn't start until the last bustle was dying away. There are other similar dresses on pages 134, 135, & 140. Just at a guess I'd put the dress at 1889 or 90, but with a fashion lag it could be slightly later and not be following fashion too closely. I would not tend to put it at the turn of the century because while the sleeve puffs did shrink, they stayed full and relaxed- not the stiff little pointy bits we see here. Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 3 09:53:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i43DrmMx027697 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 09:53:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43DkimB009975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 07:46:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43DkfGi030424; Mon, 3 May 2004 07:46:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43DkbGi030299 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 07:46:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f13.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.19]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 39390262868 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 15:46:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000a01c43115$0f766c70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 15:46:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] court dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i43DrmMx027697 Status: RO Hi. Just wanted to tell you that i had to remove the portrait of the dress i am making. The portrait belongs to Frederiksborg Slot, but a request of permission to use the picture is on its way......... It was the Gammel Estrup Museum who has borrowed the portrait from Frederiksborg, who told me that i had to get permission to use it! I will have to make a drawing of it in stead to use untill i have permission. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 3 11:25:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i43FPuMx028111 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 11:25:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43FG2mB016646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 09:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43FFsGi086225; Mon, 3 May 2004 09:15:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43FFpGi086198 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 09:15:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 8D4B15CC0B3; Mon, 3 May 2004 11:15:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0327.floodcity.net [198.93.212.73]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB9F35CC0ED for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 11:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <409661D7.439ECD92@floodcity.net> Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 11:14:31 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO makes sense to me. teehee Molly Boone wrote: > > I hadn't really noticed it before since this is certainly not my area of > focus, but the braid pattern has a break and then change at the "bulge" on > the hip line. > > I could be making a completely ignorant suggestion here but if this dress > belongs to a country cousin that reworked her "Sunday best" to be more city > fashionable does it seem feasible that the skirt was lengthened with a yoke > and the jacket also lengthened to hide the addition to the skirt with maybe > a removed shawl that was originally made to match or close. 2 added seams > in that location maybe a decent explanation for the bulge and the braid > pattern changing. > > Molly > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Kitty Felton > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:48 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo > > I've been following this thread off and on all week while I was going > crazy with my tea (party) which I pulled off yesterday to rave reviews, > even if I DID use plastic spoons to serve the jelly and paper plates. > LOL > > I FINALLY went to look at the photo in question and *I* got to wondering > if the dress in question wasn't added to in a sort of yoke thing, to > lengthen the skirt. the braid design could then have been added to try > to tie the whole thing together. This could be in keeping with the > idea of a handmedown dress or with the idea of altering an ethnic dress > to suit a more fashionable image when they got to this country. I'm > sure I've seen many pictures of women who just arrived with shorter > skirts, sort of country length suitable for working outdoors. the most > noticable thing about this dress in my ignorant view is the fact that > the peplum seems to be riding on the hips like a lowriding belt, which > is what made me think of a lengthened silohette. if I am not "reading" > the photo right then ignore me. LOL > Kitty > > Lisa A Ashton wrote: > > > > Hello-- > > > > Here is the photo that I am trying to use to reproduce this costume. I > > only have the one photo. It is posted at > > http://www.oldwaylane.net/ukrainian.html since this morning. Thank you > > to Judy Mitchell for her help posting it at this site. > > > > Although I suspected it was about turn of the century, someone who has > > looked at it thinks it may be earlier, about 1880's (possible) and that > > the dress may well have been one re-made from an earlier bustle dress. > > Again, any help or ideas are welcomed! > > > > Thanks, > > Yours in costuming, Lisa A. > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 3 12:02:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i43G20Mx028273 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 12:02:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43FqTmB020695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 09:52:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43FqQGi013276; Mon, 3 May 2004 09:52:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43FqOGi013251 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 09:52:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i43EJGE17133 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 07:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 209-165-34-081.jps.net ([209.165.34.81] helo=pavilion) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BKeHq-0002Vv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 May 2004 07:19:14 -0700 Message-ID: <000701c4311b$913d2cc0$5122a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Word and Image: The Trevelyon Miscellany of 1608 Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 07:33:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I've heard too of the Commonplace Book. I'm looking forward to seeing the embroidery patterns eventually. They do seem to pop up here and there. Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "annora" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 2:04 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Word and Image: The Trevelyon Miscellany of 1608 > > A kind soul who viewed my website where I mentioned "Miscellany by Thomas > > Trevelyon. Published in 1608. > > I've seen references to what sounds like the same book referred to > as the Commonplace Book. Also by Thomas Trevelyon and published in 1608. > I haven't been able to track down any leads on facsimiles or reprints > either, alas. > > > 100 pages of embroidery patterns, including 20 cap patterns. > > 14 of the cap panel patterns (reduced to about 1" in height) are > reproduced in The Embroiderer's Flowers by Thomasina Beck. There are also > patterns for the bands for two of them. If enlarged on a scanner or > photocopier, they'd probably be clear enough to give the general design > and some of the details too. > > --annora > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 3 12:11:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i43GBjMx028299 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 12:11:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43G8vmB022078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 10:08:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43G8uGi024945; Mon, 3 May 2004 10:08:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43G8pGi024887 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 10:08:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 32A3E5CC230; Mon, 3 May 2004 12:08:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0327.floodcity.net [198.93.212.73]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB6275CC133 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 12:08:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40966E43.7A649E1D@floodcity.net> Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 12:07:31 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo References: <20040503.074640.-503341.1.lisa58@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO yes, that is what a skirt yoke is like, and that is what it looks like to me. I assume the garment itself it long gone? kitty Lisa A Ashton wrote: > > I'm not positive I understand what you mean by a "yoke" referring to a > skirt. Do you mean that like a yoke on a blouse, it would lie flat at > the waistband and for about 6 inches and then the pleats or gathers would > be taken up, effectively smoothing out the abdomen but retaining the > fuller skirt look? > > I had initially though that the skirt would just be cut out in 6 gores, > wider at the bottom. > > Yours in costuming, Lisa A. > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 3 12:25:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i43GPnMx028352 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 12:25:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43GHAmB022906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 10:17:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43GGwGi030713; Mon, 3 May 2004 10:17:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43GGrGi030576 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 10:16:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 965181 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 May 2004 09:16:46 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 09:16:45 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Amusement for Elizabethan aficionados From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gotta get my email at home fixed. I hate only having access on weekdays! LynnD On 5/1/04 10:28 PM, "Robin Netherton" wrote: > > Check it out quickly; it'll be gone after Sunday: > > http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/comics/archive/buildcp.mpl?v=3.0&page=1 > &quality=high&cpp=4&c=147 > > Note the ruff. > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 3 12:42:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i43GgdMx028455 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 12:42:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43GW7mB024309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 10:32:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43GVVGi041197; Mon, 3 May 2004 10:31:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43GVUGi041152 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 10:31:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-135-62.client.comcast.net [24.21.135.62]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i43GVOm23553 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 12:31:24 -0400 Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 09:34:25 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] What would a chameleon wear? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <003b01c42e9b$c9e36cb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings! Thank you all very much for your ideas! I went shopping this weekend and bought a few things I hope will work (Ann Taylor linen/lycra pants (washable!), shoes and a few more things). A friend let me into her closet .... hehehe I got a few more things (floral tank dress and skirt & sweater outfit). And to top it off, I stopped at the Samsonite outlet store and got a nifty carry-on/rolly suitcase set on sale. (We LIKE sales! lol) So now I have something to carry stuff (tm) in. Thanks again!! Althea On Friday, April 30, 2004, at 03:13 AM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi Althea, > I dont know if you are travelling to the north of Europe, but up here > we > have much more casual wear than down the south in Italy for instance. > Also > up here we are shy not to wear two vivid colours. > I can always recognise other danes, when i travel in the south, we > look so > dull and konservative. > > Bjarne > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Althea Turner" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 2:25 AM > Subject: [h-cost] What would a chameleon wear? > > >> Greetings! >> >> I am trying to figure out what to wear when I travel in Europe this >> summer. I don't want my clothes to scream, "I'm an American please >> steal my wallet!" Does anyone have suggestions on what to take? I >> tend to more classic styles anyway. I need to plan for trips to the >> archives and collections as well as a conference. I plan on leaving >> the jeans and sneakers at home. I need to find a carrying bag for my >> laptop and equipment that doesn't advertise it's a laptop. What kind >> of bags are being used in France/Italy? I will be going shopping next >> week. hurray! :D Any good web sites? I don't mind paying for >> quality, but don't have a huge budget. >> >> Thanks!! >> >> Althea Turner >> *** althea@alfalfapress.com >> *** http://www.alfalfapress.com >> >> Public Relations Manager >> Sauron/Voldemort 2004 >> >> Bush/Cheney - Bringing Bigotry back to the Constitution. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Public Relations Manager Sauron/Voldemort 2004 Bush/Cheney - Bringing Bigotry back to the Constitution. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 3 13:17:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i43HHPMx028753 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 13:17:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43HAWmB000257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 11:10:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43H9sGi070873; Mon, 3 May 2004 11:09:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43H9lGj070774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 11:09:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i43HtlWm017276 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 13:55:47 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id ACD6BB900A4; Mon, 03 May 2004 13:09:42 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.128]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 3 May 2004 13:09:41 -0400 Message-ID: <001c01c43132$4580a0c0$805183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040503.074640.-503341.1.lisa58@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 13:15:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 May 2004 17:09:41.0922 (UTC) FILETIME=[6CA66820:01C43131] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another resource you might want to check re a reconstruction is "Woman's Costume 1877-1885" by Charles Hecklinger, reproduced by Shep. There are diagrams and lots of historical info for the period. The skirt should be a 5 gore pattern. The center front is cut on the fold and is slightly graded at the waist. The other 4 panels will be roughly rectangles with a slight grading of the two side front edges. All will be pleated to a waist band, with the number and width of pleats moving the fullness to the back. A placket closing should be the finish. Usually this closure is center back and concealed by the pleating. I do have one example, however that puts the closure about 5" to left center, which does not break up the back pleats. The above book has some nice jackets (or short gowns) that will reproduce the basic style of the jacket in the picture. The sleeve head can be modified to catch the late decade mode. Keep us posted on your efforts with this project.! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa A Ashton" To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo > I'm not positive I understand what you mean by a "yoke" referring to a > skirt. Do you mean that like a yoke on a blouse, it would lie flat at > the waistband and for about 6 inches and then the pleats or gathers would > be taken up, effectively smoothing out the abdomen but retaining the > fuller skirt look? > > I had initially though that the skirt would just be cut out in 6 gores, > wider at the bottom. > > Yours in costuming, Lisa A. > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 3 13:18:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i43HI1Mx028763 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 13:18:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43HGZmB001849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 11:16:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43HGYGi076671; Mon, 3 May 2004 11:16:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from providenceday.org (treebeard.providenceday.org [66.193.73.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43HGUGi076576 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 11:16:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from grace.morris@providenceday.org) Received: from [172.20.1.3] (HELO providenceday.org) by providenceday.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 1262579 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 May 2004 12:47:19 -0400 Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 12:45:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Amusement for Elizabethan aficionados Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Grace Morris To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <55E894DA-9D21-11D8-B0D6-000393DA0BCC@providenceday.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That applies to a lot of us!! I'm not home much on the weekends. Grace/Jessamyn On Monday, May 3, 2004, at 12:16 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: > Gotta get my email at home fixed. I hate only having access on > weekdays! > LynnD > > On 5/1/04 10:28 PM, "Robin Netherton" wrote: > >> >> Check it out quickly; it'll be gone after Sunday: >> >> http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/comics/archive/ >> buildcp.mpl?v=3.0&page=1 >> &quality=high&cpp=4&c=147 >> >> Note the ruff. >> >> --Robin >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 3 14:42:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i43IghMx029143 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 14:42:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43IWvmB010806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 12:32:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43IWmGi034409; Mon, 3 May 2004 12:32:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43IWgGi034259 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 12:32:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 03 May 2004 13:32:34 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Beta Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 13:32:22 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 16th century Purses X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am looking for images/portraits/paintings that show purses and pouches from the 16th C. Specifically I am trying to track images of the metal rings & bars that were used with these at this time. I am slowly going through my stash of costume & art books but it occured to me that someone on this list might know of a particularly clear image, or if anyone has research on this subject posted on the web. This group seems to be able to find anything :). Thanks in advance, Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 3 14:53:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i43Ir8Mx029199 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 14:53:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43IgDmB011770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 12:42:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43Ig7Gi041542; Mon, 3 May 2004 12:42:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web90108.mail.scd.yahoo.com (web90108.mail.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.94.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i43Ig0Gi041349 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 12:42:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bk19552004@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040503183459.79004.qmail@web90108.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Received: from [136.142.67.104] by web90108.mail.scd.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 May 2004 11:34:59 PDT Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 11:34:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Becky Krueger To: Historical Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] photo X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi When I enlarged the picture the whole piece with the change in the braid looks like a piece of fabric tacked to her hips to simulate a 2 piece outfit. The area above the bulge looks like the same fabric as the skirt. There are stripes that look like they go from the waist down. Has anyone considered that the photographer may have tried to make her look more stylish by changing the look of a dress into the look of a suit? The area above the right hip especially likes like folded material against her dress. Its just not pulled very tight. Becky Krueger (I am new to responding to the list, please excuse my ignorance.) --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 3 18:53:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i43MrbMx030292 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 18:53:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43Mj4mB004666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 16:45:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43MioGi023511; Mon, 3 May 2004 16:44:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43MijGi023438 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 16:44:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id A95F25CC1FC; Mon, 3 May 2004 18:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0394.floodcity.net [198.93.212.140]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8041A5CC14C for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 18:44:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4096CB05.3877859A@floodcity.net> Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 18:43:17 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo References: <20040503.074640.-503341.1.lisa58@juno.com> <001c01c43132$4580a0c0$805183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO would this be a good style for a middle class religious person? Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > Another resource you might want to check re a reconstruction is "Woman's > Costume 1877-1885" by Charles Hecklinger, reproduced by Shep. There are > diagrams and lots of historical info for the period. > The skirt should be a 5 gore pattern. The center front is cut on the fold > and is slightly graded at the waist. The other 4 panels will be roughly > rectangles with a slight grading of the two side front edges. All will be > pleated to a waist band, with the number and width of pleats moving the > fullness to the back. A placket closing should be the finish. Usually this > closure is center back and concealed by the pleating. I do have one > example, however that puts the closure about 5" to left center, which does > not break up the back pleats. > The above book has some nice jackets (or short gowns) that will reproduce > the basic style of the jacket in the picture. The sleeve head can be > modified to catch the late decade mode. > Keep us posted on your efforts with this project.! > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lisa A Ashton" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:46 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo > > > I'm not positive I understand what you mean by a "yoke" referring to a > > skirt. Do you mean that like a yoke on a blouse, it would lie flat at > > the waistband and for about 6 inches and then the pleats or gathers would > > be taken up, effectively smoothing out the abdomen but retaining the > > fuller skirt look? > > > > I had initially though that the skirt would just be cut out in 6 gores, > > wider at the bottom. > > > > Yours in costuming, Lisa A. > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 3 19:54:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i43NsVMx030524 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 19:54:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43NkjmB008728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 17:46:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43NkfGi059429; Mon, 3 May 2004 17:46:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i43NkcGi059404 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 17:46:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.132.61]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F80708CF for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 16:46:37 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 16:46:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century Purses Message-ID: <4096776C.28995.A78B809@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040408, clamav-milter version 0.70g Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am looking for images/portraits/paintings that show purses and > pouches from the 16th C. Specifically I am trying to track images of > the metal rings & bars that were used with these at this time. I am > slowly going through my stash of costume & art books but it occured to > me that someone on this list might know of a particularly clear image, > or if anyone has research on this subject posted on the web. This > group seems to be able to find anything :). There is a great picture from the early 16th C of "The Tree of Jesse" which has several purses showing their structure. I have several slides of it, but unfortunately I didn't write down where it was that I found them. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 3 21:31:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i441V3Mx030906 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 21:31:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i441LRmB014857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 19:21:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i441LOGi017024; Mon, 3 May 2004 19:21:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i441LJGj016986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 19:21:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i4427PWm021477 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 22:07:25 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A0092D5B008A; Mon, 03 May 2004 21:21:13 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.124]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 3 May 2004 21:21:12 -0400 Message-ID: <003901c43176$f02e88e0$7c5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040503183459.79004.qmail@web90108.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] photo Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 21:27:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 May 2004 01:21:13.0163 (UTC) FILETIME=[16CCA9B0:01C43176] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Strange as it may seem, my second view of the pic almost presented a waist/hip line that one would see in an Elizabethan view of a 'vestigial farthingale'...I immediately translated that to be some sort of add on to the skirt of the jacket. Knowing that there were no dresses of this time period except perhaps wrappers, I do not think that the fashion of this garment set would have simulated a two piece suit from a one piece dress. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Becky Krueger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 2:34 PM Subject: [h-cost] photo > Hi > > When I enlarged the picture the whole piece with the change in the braid looks like a piece of fabric tacked to her hips to simulate a 2 piece outfit. The area above the bulge looks like the same fabric as the skirt. There are stripes that look like they go from the waist down. > > Has anyone considered that the photographer may have tried to make her look more stylish by changing the look of a dress into the look of a suit? > > The area above the right hip especially likes like folded material against her dress. Its just not pulled very tight. > > Becky Krueger > (I am new to responding to the list, please excuse my ignorance.) > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 3 21:37:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i441bUMx030933 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 21:37:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i441RumB015241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 19:27:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i441RsGi020133; Mon, 3 May 2004 19:27:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i441RkGj020016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 19:27:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i442DmWm028797 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 22:13:51 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A1842D89008A; Mon, 03 May 2004 21:27:32 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.124]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 3 May 2004 21:27:29 -0400 Message-ID: <003f01c43177$d0cd4800$7c5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040503.074640.-503341.1.lisa58@juno.com><001c01c43132$4580a0c0$805183d1@rmitchellras> <4096CB05.3877859A@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 21:33:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 May 2004 01:27:29.0969 (UTC) FILETIME=[F764B210:01C43176] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kitty, I am not sure what you might mean by a religious person'. A nun?, a woman with a vocation(catholic or Protestant), a conservative 'Christian', Quaker, and etc. Referring to the pic., since she is in a traditional pose with a man, I would suggest they were a 'couple'. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty Felton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo > would this be a good style for a middle class religious person? > > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > > > Another resource you might want to check re a reconstruction is "Woman's > > Costume 1877-1885" by Charles Hecklinger, reproduced by Shep. There are > > diagrams and lots of historical info for the period. > > The skirt should be a 5 gore pattern. The center front is cut on the fold > > and is slightly graded at the waist. The other 4 panels will be roughly > > rectangles with a slight grading of the two side front edges. All will be > > pleated to a waist band, with the number and width of pleats moving the > > fullness to the back. A placket closing should be the finish. Usually this > > closure is center back and concealed by the pleating. I do have one > > example, however that puts the closure about 5" to left center, which does > > not break up the back pleats. > > The above book has some nice jackets (or short gowns) that will reproduce > > the basic style of the jacket in the picture. The sleeve head can be > > modified to catch the late decade mode. > > Keep us posted on your efforts with this project.! > > Kathleen > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lisa A Ashton" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:46 AM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo > > > > > I'm not positive I understand what you mean by a "yoke" referring to a > > > skirt. Do you mean that like a yoke on a blouse, it would lie flat at > > > the waistband and for about 6 inches and then the pleats or gathers would > > > be taken up, effectively smoothing out the abdomen but retaining the > > > fuller skirt look? > > > > > > I had initially though that the skirt would just be cut out in 6 gores, > > > wider at the bottom. > > > > > > Yours in costuming, Lisa A. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > > > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 3 21:53:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i441rFMx030991 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 21:53:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i441hWmB016098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 19:43:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i441hVGi028354; Mon, 3 May 2004 19:43:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i441hRGi028293 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 19:43:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (pcp03026555pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.37.232.18]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i441h51Q008449 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 21:43:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.3.0.0.20040503213907.05faca18@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 21:43:00 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Trousseau case? Modern "steamer trunk"? Something else? In-Reply-To: <200405030451.i434pFGj030411@net.indra.com> References: <200405030451.i434pFGj030411@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Sun, 2 May 2004 14:13:30 -0500, seamstrix@juno.com wrote: >Sounds great! My only questions are: > >A) Where do you find it? A luggage vendor at a computer fair. >B) How much is it? He was asking $20 for it when I looked at it in the morning. When I returned in the afternoon, it was gone -- either someone had purchased it or the vendor had begun packing up for the day. He'd said it was "an $800 value", but given the "brand" (an off-label) and quality, that was typical vendor overhype. If it's meant for me to have something like, it will pop up again. As it is, I probably would have had to turn around and sell it again for lack of space to store it :( Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 00:59:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i444xHMx031657 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 00:59:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i444nimB027034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 22:49:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i444nXGi014738; Mon, 3 May 2004 22:49:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.donet.com (mail.donet.com [64.56.96.53]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i444n8Gj014569 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 22:49:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mjh@pearlandplume.com) Received: (qmail 18116 invoked by alias); 4 May 2004 04:10:44 -0000 X-Sender: mjh@pearlandplume.com X-Recipient: h-costume@indra.com Received: from dhcp065-024-121-080.columbus.rr.com (HELO ?65.24.121.80?) (65.24.121.80) by mail.donet.com for h-costume@indra.com with SMTP; 4 May 2004 04:10:44 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 00:06:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] colleges for history and construction From: Marsha J Hamilton To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A question for people in the U.S.-- A friend's daughter is in college and wants to transfer to a school where she can get into a B.A. program that offers costume and clothing history courses but also courses on construction and sewing/tailoring techniques. Her college has costume history courses, but while costuming a play, she realized she needed better sewing and construction skills. She didn't want to go to a place like FIT, because she wants a traditional liberal arts degree (BA, BFA...) She would also like to learn construction techniques in a formal school setting, as opposed to taking workshops or online courses to improve what she's doing with hands-on costuming. I have no idea if such a program exists. Does anyone know of a college that offers a BA that has history and theory as well as practical skills courses? Thanks. Marsha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 01:14:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i445EfMx031723 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 01:14:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i445CfmB028271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 23:12:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i445CfGi024347; Mon, 3 May 2004 23:12:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i445CcGi024293 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 23:12:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Rampant_Peacock@comcast.net) Received: from molly (c-67-170-26-145.client.comcast.net[67.170.26.145]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004050405072301300npqqne>; Tue, 4 May 2004 05:07:25 +0000 From: "Molly Boone" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] colleges for history and construction Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 22:05:16 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Check out Washington State University in Pullman, WA. It used to have a Textiles BA program that used to be quite good when I was in college. I believe they still offer it, From what I remember they have a variety of design, history and technique classes. This amuses me because the college is in a Far Eastern Washington College town that the population quadruples during school. It is about 10 minutes from the Oregon border. college link. http://www.wsu.edu/ I'm sure there are more, but this is the one I know about. Molly -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Marsha J Hamilton Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:07 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] colleges for history and construction A question for people in the U.S.-- A friend's daughter is in college and wants to transfer to a school where she can get into a B.A. program that offers costume and clothing history courses but also courses on construction and sewing/tailoring techniques. Her college has costume history courses, but while costuming a play, she realized she needed better sewing and construction skills. She didn't want to go to a place like FIT, because she wants a traditional liberal arts degree (BA, BFA...) She would also like to learn construction techniques in a formal school setting, as opposed to taking workshops or online courses to improve what she's doing with hands-on costuming. I have no idea if such a program exists. Does anyone know of a college that offers a BA that has history and theory as well as practical skills courses? Thanks. Marsha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 01:17:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i445HkMx031728 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 01:17:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i445BZmB028208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 23:11:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i445BXGi023861; Mon, 3 May 2004 23:11:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i445BQGi023770 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 23:11:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-135-62.client.comcast.net [24.21.135.62]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i445BKo14580 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 01:11:20 -0400 Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 22:14:25 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] colleges for history and construction Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, Washington State University (Talk to Patty Fischer, tell her I sent ya) http://amdt.wsu.edu/ Oregon State University (Where I am now) http://www.hhs.oregonstate.edu/aihm/index.html Althea On Monday, May 3, 2004, at 09:06 PM, Marsha J Hamilton wrote: > A question for people in the U.S.-- > > A friend's daughter is in college and wants to transfer to a school > where > she can get into a B.A. program that offers costume and clothing > history > courses but also courses on construction and sewing/tailoring > techniques. > > Her college has costume history courses, but while costuming a play, > she > realized she needed better sewing and construction skills. > > She didn't want to go to a place like FIT, because she wants a > traditional > liberal arts degree (BA, BFA...) She would also like to learn > construction > techniques in a formal school setting, as opposed to taking workshops > or > online courses to improve what she's doing with hands-on costuming. > > I have no idea if such a program exists. Does anyone know of a > college that > offers a BA that has history and theory as well as practical skills > courses? > Thanks. > > Marsha > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Public Relations Manager Sauron/Voldemort 2004 Bush/Cheney - Bringing Bigotry back to the Constitution. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 01:23:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i445NrMx031748 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 01:23:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i445ELmB028460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 May 2004 23:14:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i445EJGi025124; Mon, 3 May 2004 23:14:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i445EGGi025020 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 23:14:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A5B6237008E; Tue, 04 May 2004 00:10:14 -0500 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A57D8E40024; Tue, 04 May 2004 00:09:17 -0500 Message-ID: <006a01c43196$731fb610$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] colleges for history and construction Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 01:12:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marsha, I took traditional sewing classes in the HomeEc. Ed. dept. at the University of New Mexico. I know when I was at Virginia Commonwealth University sewing/draping/patternmaking classes are offered under the Costume Design and Fashion Design majors in the Fashion Department. The students cross over in departments. Also for the fashion history... pre-20th Century courses were taught in the Costume Design dept. and the 20th Century fashion history in the Fashion dept. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 02:29:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i446TKMx011558 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 02:29:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i446JwmB001082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 00:19:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i446JuGi051014; Tue, 4 May 2004 00:19:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i446JsGi050955 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 00:19:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-206-244.cvip.net [129.8.206.244]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0972B17689 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 23:19:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040503231644.02c479b8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 23:18:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early renaissance belts and shoes In-Reply-To: <4093B39B.B7FE0BA4@charter.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:26 AM 5/1/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I would like to find some good pictoral examples of upper class girdles >(and footwear) from the early to mid 1500's, such that would be >appropriate for trips to town. Any suggestions on helpful sites? I am >targeting western europe, specifically the Scottish highlands. >Cheers, >Joe Hi Joe, I would love to find them too. Most portraits of nobles of that time are either English, or a bust up view. Drawings, well, you have what I have. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner & Creator of DreamTime Studios; Website TBA. "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 02:32:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i446WKMx012828 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 02:32:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i446KemB001114 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 00:20:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i446KeGi051320; Tue, 4 May 2004 00:20:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i446KcGi051305 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 00:20:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i445qaE29347 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 22:52:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BKsr5-0005ej-00; Mon, 03 May 2004 22:52:35 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: , Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 22:52:49 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c4319c$0848e270$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] "For those on the list who have asked for a copy of my Puff & Slash handout, I will be teaching a class...." X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi folks, at the suggestion of someone on these lists I am letting folks know that I will be teaching this class at the Collegium Nebularum on June 26 th in Concord, California. This is an SCA event, but the 'public' is always invited. Please see details here: http://www.phmoms.com/CollegiumNebularum.html For those who are unable to make it, the handout is available here: http://www.grimmarmoury.com/docs/PS_2003_Entire_Doc.pdf Graciously hosted by Jason of the Grimm Armoury. WARNING, this is a BEAST of a document and will take a long time to load and download. I have not yet incorporated them, but I have been provided very nice constructive criticisms by Julie from San Diego! Soon, soon.. :-) Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 07:38:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44BcxMx026849 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 07:38:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44BW8mB014163 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 05:32:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44BVrGi070308; Tue, 4 May 2004 05:31:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from relay04.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (relay04.roc.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44BVlGi070273 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 05:31:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sleepyunicorn@citlink.net) Received: (qmail 28673 invoked from network); 4 May 2004 11:25:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO computername) ([67.136.250.54]) (envelope-sender ) by relay04.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.18) with SMTP for ; 4 May 2004 11:25:06 -0000 Message-ID: <004c01c431ca$70e0c4f0$01fea8c0@computername> From: "Home Ec" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] colleges for history and construction Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 07:25:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: mjh@pearlandplume.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday, I was just down to a college in New York - far, far out from New York City, a very small city out in the agricultural part of New York State, a bit over an hour from where I live. SUNY Oneonta offers one, in a brand new bulding, that can also have components with FIT or in London. They have a wonderful new climate-controlled room for their historical collection - I had the best time of the day just opening cabinents and drawers and looking, since they had left in unlocked for our tour. There are a LOT of times that being a Home Ec (FaCS) teacher is fun! S.U.N.Y. College at Oneonta offers two alternatives to prepare for a career in fashion. First, four years are completed at S.U.N.Y. Oneonta to receive a B.S. Degree. Students may enhance this degree by studying abroad, completing a fashion industry internship, and by completing a minor in a complementary field of study (i.e. art, business, communications, foreign language). Second, is the 3:1 cooperative program with the Fashion Institute of Technology (F.I.T.) in New York City. In this cooperative program, degrees include B.S. from Oneonta and an A.A.S. from F.I.T. through majors in Fashion Merchandising, Marketing, Fashion Design, Advertising and Communication, Advertising Design, Apparel Production Management, Textile Design, Textile Development and Marketing, Jewelry Design, and Accessory Design. Degrees Bachelors of Science Majors General Human Ecology General Human Ecology -- Emphases in: Apparel and Textiles (Fashion) Options in cooperation with the Fashion Institute of Technology: Accessories Design Advertising and Marketing Communications Advertising Design Fashions Merchandising Management Textile Development and Marketing Textile/Surface Design Options in cooperation with the American InterContinental University in London: Fashion Design Fashion Marketing Minors Apparel and Textiles Fashion Courses FASH 120 Socio-Psychological Aspects of Dress (3 s.h.) FASH 121 Apparel Construction (3 s.h.) The course emphasizes design principles, fabric selection, alterations and fit, and relationship to quality garment construction. Management skills, selection, and operation of equipment, various sewing techniques for individual fabrics and garments are stressed. Additional student costs vary with project choice. (CPA) FASH 123 Quality Analysis of Apparel Products (3 s.h.) FASH 220 Textiles (3 s.h.) A study of fibers, yarns, and the construction and finish of fabrics as a basis for selection, care, and use. Laboratory work consists of use of various methods and testing instruments to evaluate physical and chemical properties. FASH 220 is a writing intensive course focusing on technical writing. Students submit 10 laboratory reports and an experimental fabric report. (CPA, CW) FASH 221 Apparel in Today's Economy (3 s.h.) FASH 222 Apparel Design--Flat Pattern Principles of flat pattern design with particular emphasis given to development of individual design and creation of a sloper. Construction stresses advanced techniques. Additional student costs vary with project choice. (CPA) FASH 223 Computer Applications: Fashion (3 s.h.) Introduction to computer applications in the fashion business in the fields of design and merchandising. Both CAD and spreadsheet software will be used. FASH 224 History of Costume I (3 s.h.) A survey of costume in Western Civilization from the days of ancient Egypt to the 1970's. Each period is explored through the historical, political, economic, and religious factors which are mirrored in dress and other aesthetic activities of a period. (LA, CPA, IH) FASH 225 History of Costume II (1 s.h.) A survey of costume in the 19th and 20th centuries, pointing out social, political, economic, and religious factors that are mirrored in dress and other aesthetic activities of a period. (CPA) FASH 226 Apparel DesignDraping (3 s.h.) A study of the fundamental principles and techniques of draping fabrics. The manipulation of fabric to obtain harmony between desired design, the fabric, and figure of the wearer. Encourage imagination in the original use of fabric and line in dress. (CPA) FASH 227 Personal Coloring Systems and Analysis (1 s.h.) FASH 228 Fashion Illustration and Design (3 s.h.) FASH 229 Fashion Marketing (3 s.h.) FASH 280 Interior Design (3 s.h.) FASH 282 Professional Seminar: Fashion (1 s.h.) Explore potential internship or career opportunities available in the fashion industry; fine tune the professional design portfolio/zine; prepare a professional resume and cover letter; develop effective job searching techniques; and examine various interviewing techniques. Junior status, Human Ecology major. FASH 323 Promotional Techniques in the Apparel Industry (3 s.h.) FASH 324 Fashion Merchandising (3 s.h.) FASH 325 Case Studies in Apparel Design (3 s.h.) An advanced course applying flat pattern or draping principles and techniques to creating designs for various segments in the fashion industry. A study of historical influences, advanced design and sketching techniques, industry methods, and inspiration sources. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsha J Hamilton" snippped \ She didn't want to go to a place like FIT, because she wants a traditional > liberal arts degree (BA, BFA...) She would also like to learn construction > techniques in a formal school setting, as opposed to taking workshops or > online courses to improve what she's doing with hands-on costuming. > > I have no idea if such a program exists. Does anyone know of a college that > offers a BA that has history and theory as well as practical skills courses? > Thanks. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 08:26:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44CQGMx027009 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 08:26:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44CN2mB016413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 06:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44CN2Gi088987; Tue, 4 May 2004 06:23:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i44CN0Gj088922 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 06:23:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SAVSMTP 3.1.0.29) with SMTP id M2004050408225202040 for ; Tue, 04 May 2004 08:22:52 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id i44CMn8Q011876 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 08:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <02c801c431d2$84d0dbf0$5ba810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] colleges for history and construction Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 08:22:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If she wants to stay on the east coast -- look into Rutgers/Mason Gross. I know the BFA/MFA program offers a lot. Don't know about the BA program. Kate *** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsha J Hamilton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] colleges for history and construction > A question for people in the U.S.-- > > A friend's daughter is in college and wants to transfer to a school where > she can get into a B.A. program that offers costume and clothing history > courses but also courses on construction and sewing/tailoring techniques. > > Her college has costume history courses, but while costuming a play, she > realized she needed better sewing and construction skills. > > She didn't want to go to a place like FIT, because she wants a traditional > liberal arts degree (BA, BFA...) She would also like to learn construction > techniques in a formal school setting, as opposed to taking workshops or > online courses to improve what she's doing with hands-on costuming. > > I have no idea if such a program exists. Does anyone know of a college that > offers a BA that has history and theory as well as practical skills courses? > Thanks. > > Marsha > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 08:27:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44CRsMx027021 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 08:27:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44CIJmB016286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 06:18:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44CIHGi087257; Tue, 4 May 2004 06:18:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web60606.mail.yahoo.com (web60606.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.118.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i44CIFGi087209 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 06:18:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from delasue@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040504121129.94758.qmail@web60606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.100.222.126] by web60606.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 May 2004 05:11:29 PDT Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 05:11:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Kay Shelton Subject: Re: [h-cost] Word and Image: The Trevelyon Miscellany of 1608 To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405030451.i434pJGk030441@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> A kind soul who viewed my website where I mentioned "Miscellany by Thomas > Trevelyon. Published in 1608. 100 pages of embroidery patterns, including 20 cap patterns.<< I've seen the exhibit. The book isn't really pages of embroidery patterns, but is a compliation of many things taken from many sources (uncited by Trevelyon) with an extensive amount of decorative borders, etc., which could be used as embroidery patterns. It is believed that Trevelyon was an embroiderer, although not much is known about him. The cap patterns are the only embroidery patterns as such although many of the other designs could be used as patterns according to the exhibit. I don't believe the book has been reproduced. There isn't a copy selling in the bookstore of the Folger. Any other questions about the exhibit I could answer? Kay __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 08:37:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44Cb6Mx027055 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 08:37:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44CZJmB016943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 06:35:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44CZHGi094012; Tue, 4 May 2004 06:35:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44CZEGi093986 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 06:35:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-87-66.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.87.66]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i44CYxfm018301 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 05:35:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040504052849.024c33b0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 05:30:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century Purses In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Specifically I am trying to track images of the metal >rings & bars that were used with these at this time. Dover re-issued a collection catalog of ironwork, called something like Decorative Ironwork, which has a couple of what look like Renaissance metal purse frames. Nothing in the book is especially dated, or provenanced, but that's sure what these pieces look like to me. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 08:42:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44CgDMx027081 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 08:42:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44CbBmB017013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 06:37:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44CbBGi094737; Tue, 4 May 2004 06:37:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m03.lax.untd.com (m03.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i44CbAGi094650 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 06:37:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa58@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 9q05Lp5l6pU14shT5B1ERv2QKoEpN3dbxQX6a0/wR3fD4+UfF0ylKA== Received: (from lisa58@juno.com) by m03.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JUSPB3ZT; Tue, 04 May 2004 05:37:01 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 07:59:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] sepia photo Message-ID: <20040504.083423.-179921.0.lisa58@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-4,11-12,16-17,19-20,27-28,32-33,36-37 From: Lisa A Ashton X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you all again for your help so far--I am collating all the different comments into various categories; however, and this is the sneaky part, I find I have come uup with more questions, rather than more answers! Looking at the photo very carefully, I think that the hip "bulge", which is clearly circumferential, could be from the bottom edge of the corset, as it "drapes down" just below, where the rigid structural effect would stop. Question--whta sort of corset? i.e. what years, style? I have been looking thorugh the patternsoftime website, very helpful, thank you for the suggestion, and they have multiple corsets for that period. Keeping in mind that we would be thinking about Eastern Europe here.... Although the skirt front needs ironing, I think it is more like a 7- or 9-gore skirt than a 4- or 5-gore skirt, and may well have extra fullness (or even a bustle, although that actually begins to seems less likely) in the back. It does not seem to have any sort of train. What sort of petticoat would you expect under it? What would have been the fabric choices for the corset and the petticoat--linen? I looked at the bodice/jacket pattern TV460 (page 52 of the catalog). Then I stared at the photo--I don't see any obvious front closures or buttons. Would the front have a somewhat offset (to the side) opening, or would the buttons just have been "under" the outside of the jacket and unseen, leaving that small narrow center area fairly smooth? She was not a woman with any maids, I assure you, she would have had to dress herself without assistance. Actually, pattern TV420 looks closer to the photo. What sort of hat might she have worn? I know there isn't one in the photo, but I would like to make an appropriate one for the presentation--for her to take off as she enters the photographer's studio and primps a bit. What might the braided decoration have been made of--a sort of knit black silk tube? What would be a resource for finding the braid, and either buying it, or making it? Yours in costuming, Lisa A. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 08:42:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44CgxMx027085 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 08:42:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44CbGmB017027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 06:37:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44CbGGi094772; Tue, 4 May 2004 06:37:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m03.lax.untd.com (m03.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i44CbAGi094651 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 06:37:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa58@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 9q05Lp5l6pU14shT5B1ERv2QKoEpN3dbMS1QA3mUMVQQucdYLOV87A== Received: (from lisa58@juno.com) by m03.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JUSPB3ZX; Tue, 04 May 2004 05:37:01 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 08:14:39 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo Message-ID: <20040504.083423.-179921.2.lisa58@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-9,11-14 From: Lisa A Ashton X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, the only old clothes preserved in our family history were some beautiful things knitted by my grandmother, for my mother, back in the 50's--the matching sleeveless sweaters and cardigans popular then, and a few things she knit for me when I was young. I never met the woman in the photo--my great-grandmother,and my family at that time were immigrants who came over with nothing much. Although the photo was taken while she was still in Odessa, and probably just married. It is unlikely, given the mores of that time, she would have been photographed with a man not (yet) her husband. On Mon, 03 May 2004 12:07:31 -0400 Kitty Felton writes: > yes, that is what a skirt yoke is like, and that is what it looks > like > to me. I assume the garment itself it long gone? > kitty ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 09:05:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44D5OMx027229 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 09:05:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44D0cmB018235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 07:00:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44D0aGi004733; Tue, 4 May 2004 07:00:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50703.mail.yahoo.com (web50703.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i44D0XGi004679 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 07:00:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20040504130028.54417.qmail@web50703.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.49.146.76] by web50703.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 May 2004 09:00:28 EDT Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:00:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page Subject: Re: [h-cost] colleges for history and construction To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405041132.i44BWqGi070667@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's not quite US, but if you don't mind going north, there is Dalhousie University (Halifax, Nova Scotia) theatrical costuming program - http://www.dal.ca/~costume/index.shtml and their history department- http://www.dal.ca/~histwww/Home.htm tuition would be cheaper too - Canadian prices! ;-) Kathy Subject: Re: [h-cost] colleges for history and construction A question for people in the U.S.-- A friend's daughter is in college and wants to transfer to a school where she can get into a B.A. program that offers costume and clothing history courses but also courses on construction and sewing/tailoring techniques. Her college has costume history courses, but while costuming a play, she realized she needed better sewing and construction skills. She didn't want to go to a place like FIT, because she wants a traditional liberal arts degree (BA, BFA...) She would also like to learn construction techniques in a formal school setting, as opposed to taking workshops or online courses to improve what she's doing with hands-on costuming. I have no idea if such a program exists. Does anyone know of a college that offers a BA that has history and theory as well as practical skills courses? Thanks. Marsha --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 09:09:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44D9jMx027235 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 09:09:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44D7ZmB018720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 07:07:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44D7YGi007855; Tue, 4 May 2004 07:07:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44D7SGj007814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 07:07:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i44D5QYu017542 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 09:05:26 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 04 May 2004 09:05:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4097958E.1080901@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 09:07:26 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] sepia photo References: <20040504.083423.-179921.0.lisa58@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20040504.083423.-179921.0.lisa58@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I took another look at the photo last night. I don't know much about this period, but it almost looks like huge pockets, what with the roll of the edge and all. That sounds very odd, from what little I have heard! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 09:22:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44DMJMx027255 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 09:22:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44DKEmB019411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 07:20:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44DJeGi013153; Tue, 4 May 2004 07:19:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44DJHGi012987 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 07:19:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i44DDuE19876 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 06:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 209-165-56-187.jps.net ([209.165.56.187] helo=pavilion) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BKzk9-000549-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 May 2004 06:13:53 -0700 Message-ID: <001001c431db$9b84ff80$bb38a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] colleges for history and construction Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 06:27:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marsha, FIT does offer AA., BS, and BFA degrees as well as Master's degrees. Have a look at http://www.fitnyc.suny.edu/aspx/Content.aspx?menu=Future:SchoolsAndPrograms The name is a bit deceiving but it is a fully fledged college and part of the State University of New York System. Their core basic education courses are found at http://www.fitnyc.suny.edu/aspx/Content.aspx?menu=Future:SchoolsAndPrograms: SUNYsGeneralEducationRequirements It's well worth considering. My only regret is that I didn't take more classes there when I lived in New York, and that my costuming interested hadn't surfaced enough for me to appreciate what an educational opportunity was at hand. Lisa Sinervo www.thrednedlestrete.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsha J Hamilton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] colleges for history and construction > A question for people in the U.S.-- > > A friend's daughter is in college and wants to transfer to a school where > she can get into a B.A. program that offers costume and clothing history > courses but also courses on construction and sewing/tailoring techniques. > > Her college has costume history courses, but while costuming a play, she > realized she needed better sewing and construction skills. > > She didn't want to go to a place like FIT, because she wants a traditional > liberal arts degree (BA, BFA...) She would also like to learn construction > techniques in a formal school setting, as opposed to taking workshops or > online courses to improve what she's doing with hands-on costuming. > > I have no idea if such a program exists. Does anyone know of a college that > offers a BA that has history and theory as well as practical skills courses? > Thanks. > > Marsha > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 10:05:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44E5oMx027483 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:05:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44E4SmB022349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 08:04:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44E4PGi035959; Tue, 4 May 2004 08:04:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [69.17.45.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44E4KGi035914 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 08:04:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Received: from [192.168.1.5] (adsl-63-207-103-57.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.103.57]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 760C22F893 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 07:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Subject: Re: [h-cost] colleges for history and construction Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 07:04:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO San Francisco State has both a theatre degree and a home ec (er, Consumer Sciences) degree, those two could be combined. On May 3, 2004, at 10:14 PM, Althea Turner wrote: > Greetings, > > Washington State University (Talk to Patty Fischer, tell her I sent ya) > http://amdt.wsu.edu/ > > Oregon State University (Where I am now) > http://www.hhs.oregonstate.edu/aihm/index.html > > Althea > > On Monday, May 3, 2004, at 09:06 PM, Marsha J Hamilton wrote: > >> A question for people in the U.S.-- >> >> A friend's daughter is in college and wants to transfer to a school >> where >> she can get into a B.A. program that offers costume and clothing >> history >> courses but also courses on construction and sewing/tailoring >> techniques. >> >> Her college has costume history courses, but while costuming a play, >> she >> realized she needed better sewing and construction skills. >> >> She didn't want to go to a place like FIT, because she wants a >> traditional >> liberal arts degree (BA, BFA...) She would also like to learn >> construction >> techniques in a formal school setting, as opposed to taking workshops >> or >> online courses to improve what she's doing with hands-on costuming. >> >> I have no idea if such a program exists. Does anyone know of a >> college that >> offers a BA that has history and theory as well as practical skills >> courses? >> Thanks. >> >> Marsha >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > Althea Turner > *** althea@alfalfapress.com > *** http://www.alfalfapress.com > > Public Relations Manager > Sauron/Voldemort 2004 > > Bush/Cheney - Bringing Bigotry back to the Constitution. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 10:29:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44ETBMx027615 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:29:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44ERGmB024213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 08:27:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44EREGi049594; Tue, 4 May 2004 08:27:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44ERCGi049515 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 08:27:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.9.287a73d4 (3866) for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:21:52 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <9.287a73d4.2dc90100@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:21:52 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] colleges for history and construction To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5016 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I realize I'm prejudiced, because my background is "home economics," but I recommend one of the state school programs that have been suggested--like Wash. State or SUNY-Oneonta. That coop program with FIT sounds wonderful, if you can afford it! Check out your own state's family and consumer sciences program, too, if they still have one--these programs are going away in some places. Nothing against theater, but I think you will get more in-depth solid construction experience in an FCS program. You will also take at least one class in textiles, which is very important to understanding clothing construction and care. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 10:32:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44EWpMx027631 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:32:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44EUumB024543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 08:30:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44EUtGi051912; Tue, 4 May 2004 08:30:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44EUsGi051845 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 08:30:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B4264264B for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 09:49:06 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4097AC7D.6080207@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 09:45:17 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Puff & Slash handout References: <000001c4319c$0848e270$6a01a8c0@SG01> In-Reply-To: <000001c4319c$0848e270$6a01a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > > For those who are unable to make it, the handout is available here: > http://www.grimmarmoury.com/docs/PS_2003_Entire_Doc.pdf > > Graciously hosted by Jason of the Grimm Armoury. WARNING, this is a BEAST > of a document and will take a long time to load and download. > I'm getting a 'grimmarmoury.com cannot be found' error when I try that address. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 10:54:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44EstMx027774 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:54:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44ErwmB026813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 08:53:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44ErlGi066640; Tue, 4 May 2004 08:53:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44EriGi066604 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 08:53:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 761855CC080; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:53:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0358.floodcity.net [198.93.212.104]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CDC95CC098 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4097AE22.84AD2F0B@floodcity.net> Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 10:52:18 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <20040503.074640.-503341.1.lisa58@juno.com><001c01c43132$4580a0c0$805183d1@rmitchellras> <4096CB05.3877859A@floodcity.net> <003f01c43177$d0cd4800$7c5183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Conservative dress of the Victorian era. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > Kitty, I am not sure what you might mean by a religious person'. A nun?, a > woman with a vocation(catholic or Protestant), a conservative 'Christian', > Quaker, and etc. Referring to the pic., since she is in a traditional pose > with a man, I would suggest they were a 'couple'. > Kathleen by a religious person, I meant a conservative christian. this doesn't necessarily mean she wouldn't have been a wife. my question relates to my search for what sort of garments I would wear if I were trying to dress not in a very fashionable style but in a more conservative way. while a dress like a wedding cake is pretty to look at, it just doesn't seem like something I would enjoy wearing. I would like to learn what conservative person of the CW or post CW era would wear. would she wear hoops? how large? I imagine a washer woman would not, but what would a middle class person wear? I like the look of the skirts swept to the back, but do not like the strange corsets of the turn of the century. is there a middle ground? Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 11:03:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44F3pMx027832 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 11:03:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44F31mB027624 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 09:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44F2wGi073040; Tue, 4 May 2004 09:02:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44F2vGi073019 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 09:02:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.20.32] (a32.denver.dial.dimcom.net [206.124.20.32]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i44F1rC15434 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 09:01:53 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 08:44:08 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Conservative dress of the Victorian era. From: Sylvia To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4097AE22.84AD2F0B@floodcity.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I didnt see your original post so I'm not sure what you are dressing for, but I think a conservative woman would still try to be fashionable, though not flashy. You would wear hoops if you're doing 1860s and a bustle for the 1870s or 1880s, although the underbustle structure was not used for that entire period. I think to say conservative would mean more somber colors, high necks, long sleeves, less trim. Sylrog > From: Kitty Felton > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 10:52:18 -0400 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] Re: Conservative dress of the Victorian era. > > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: >> >> Kitty, I am not sure what you might mean by a religious person'. A nun?, a >> woman with a vocation(catholic or Protestant), a conservative 'Christian', >> Quaker, and etc. Referring to the pic., since she is in a traditional pose >> with a man, I would suggest they were a 'couple'. >> Kathleen > > > > by a religious person, I meant a conservative christian. this doesn't > necessarily mean she wouldn't have been a wife. my question relates to > my search for what sort of garments I would wear if I were trying to > dress not in a very fashionable style but in a more conservative way. > while a dress like a wedding cake is pretty to look at, it just doesn't > seem like something I would enjoy wearing. I would like to learn what > conservative person of the CW or post CW era would wear. would she wear > hoops? how large? I imagine a washer woman would not, but what would > a middle class person wear? I like the look of the skirts swept to the > back, but do not like the strange corsets of the turn of the century. > is there a middle ground? > > Kitty > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 11:11:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44FB4Mx027908 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 11:11:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44F4DmB027759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 09:04:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44F4AGi073969; Tue, 4 May 2004 09:04:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i44F3dGi073466 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 09:03:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OqNqFO/MN1p3M7NzDfPQ0lI= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JUSXPQ9X; Tue, 04 May 2004 08:03:12 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 07:57:23 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Word and Image: The Trevelyon Miscellany of 1608 Message-ID: <20040504.080243.1684.6.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,7-44 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooo, cool!! Are any images available on line? Thanks1 Arlys On Tue, 4 May 2004 05:11:29 -0700 (PDT) Kay Shelton writes: > >> A kind soul who viewed my website where I mentioned > > "Miscellany by Thomas > > Trevelyon. Published in 1608. 100 pages of > embroidery patterns, including 20 cap patterns.<< > > I've seen the exhibit. The book isn't really pages of > embroidery patterns, but is a compliation of many > things taken from many sources (uncited by Trevelyon) > with an extensive amount of decorative borders, etc., > which could be used as embroidery patterns. It is > believed that Trevelyon was an embroiderer, although > not much is known about him. The cap patterns are the > only embroidery patterns as such although many of the > other designs could be used as patterns according to > the exhibit. > > I don't believe the book has been reproduced. There > isn't a copy selling in the bookstore of the Folger. > > Any other questions about the exhibit I could answer? > > Kay > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 11:33:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44FXHMx028049 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 11:33:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44FW7mB000446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 09:32:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44FVlGi094251; Tue, 4 May 2004 09:31:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web42003.mail.yahoo.com (web42003.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i44FVDGi093730 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 09:31:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nightwingwhitehead@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040504152428.91272.qmail@web42003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.93.236.31] by web42003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 May 2004 08:24:28 PDT Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 08:24:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Nightwing Whitehead Subject: Re: [h-cost] colleges for history and construction To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405041505.i44F5UGk075080@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK, let me jump into the fray and offer up my alma mater- Philadelphia University (aka Philadelphia College of Textile and Science). They do not offer a costuming degree, I got a Bachelor of Science degree in Fashion Design, but comparing what I learned with a grad student from Derexel (another good choice) we found I was learning the same things she was. Itt's a well-rounded education with Liberal Arts, Business, Maths, World Politics. And, the classes in Fabrics, Construction, Draping, Flat Pattern, Design, Portfolio, and Drawing are *fabulous*. You can check them out at www.philau.edu (and yes, tell Clara or Anne or Jane or anyone else in the textile dept. that I sent you!) ===== Nightwing Whitehead Fashion Designer www.nightwingwhitehead.com by appointment 860-402-0847 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 12:25:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44GPkMx028677 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 12:25:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44GNemB005640 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 10:23:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44GNdGi033160; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:23:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from exchange.lynchburg.edu ([161.115.184.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44GMkGi032461 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:22:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formo@lynchburg.edu) Received: by exchange.lynchburg.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 4 May 2004 12:00:52 -0400 Message-ID: <8FDB88FE2E8D2440A7FD5542CFE32E28820CDE@exchange.lynchburg.edu> From: "Formo, Nathan" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" , "'SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com'" Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 12:00:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Hose VS Tights X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am soon going to start making a couple sets of hose for my various outfits. (Italian Ren and a Houppenlaude) I've got some ideas on how to construct the hose but I have a different question. How are hose supposed to fit compared to tights? Since I dance ballet mundanely I've always just used a pair of dance tights. Now I'm trying to be more authentic but I'm not entirely sure I understand how hose are supposed to fit. Since all dance tights have a high spandex content getting a close fit isn't really a problem. But when I make my new hose out of cotton or linen I'm not going to have that same "automatically fits you" feeling. I'm assuming this means that I need to do a lot of measuring to make sure the hose are fitted. My question is how tightly fitted were hose? They couldn't have the same second skin feeling as tights since that would restrict movement. So what feeling am I looking for when I try to size the hose? How tight or loose are they supposed to be made? Another area I'm wondering about is the knee. Even in dance tights there can sometimes be a tendency for the material around the knee to stretch more then the rest of the tights and then sort of pouch up when the leg is straigtened again. How is this handled with hose? Extra material around the knee that will always be baggy when the leg is straightened but fits comfortable when the knee is bent? Final question, what's the most common way that other people use to hold their hose up? Since they don't have the elastic/spandex like modern tights there must be something like a drawstring or ties of some type right? I know these are really weird questions. I've found however that when I start working on a garment I can make decisions about it's construction much better if I have a good idea of how the clothes should look and feel in the end. If I just follow a pattern without truly understanding how the finished clothes will feel it doesn't work out right. And since my only similar experience with leg coverings like that is dance then I really don't know what I'm trying to do yet. Bjorn Arnaldsson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 12:25:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44GPtMx028680 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 12:25:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44GMUmB005523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 10:22:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44GMQGi032186; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:22:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44GMLGj032116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:22:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i44H8bWm006763 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 13:08:38 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A33849200A6; Tue, 04 May 2004 12:22:16 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.107]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 4 May 2004 12:22:15 -0400 Message-ID: <000901c431f4$d04e7340$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040504.083423.-179921.0.lisa58@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sepia photo Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 12:28:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 May 2004 16:22:15.0625 (UTC) FILETIME=[F689B390:01C431F3] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa, it you look at pattern shapes for skirts in the period, they are 'block' style and extant ones in my collection vary from about 92" to 108" max. it is my understanding that an average width of fabric was about22' to 29/30" depending on the fiber. In almost all cases, skirts that I have use lengths of fabric which include the selvedges so no vertical cutting was necessary. Only the graded front panel is cut. The corset would have snugged the body at the hipline, so I donot see that this could be the cause of the 'bulge'. If the jacket skirt was added on to for a more fashionable length, however, this could account for the queerness of the picture. The jacket is probably fastened first inside by a series of hooks and eyes that firmly bring the front lining together, and then another set of hooks and eyes somewhat concealed over the center front. There are lots of good hats and assessories material for you to dream up the total ensemble. Kathleen of ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa A Ashton" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] sepia photo > Thank you all again for your help so far--I am collating all the > different comments into various categories; however, and this is the > sneaky part, I find I have come uup with more questions, rather than more > answers! > > Looking at the photo very carefully, I think that the hip "bulge", which > is clearly circumferential, could be from the bottom edge of the corset, > as it "drapes down" just below, where the rigid structural effect would > stop. Question--whta sort of corset? i.e. what years, style? I have > been looking thorugh the patternsoftime website, very helpful, thank you > for the suggestion, and they have multiple corsets for that period. > Keeping in mind that we would be thinking about Eastern Europe here.... > > Although the skirt front needs ironing, I think it is more like a 7- or > 9-gore skirt than a 4- or 5-gore skirt, and may well have extra fullness > (or even a bustle, although that actually begins to seems less likely) in > the back. It does not seem to have any sort of train. > > What sort of petticoat would you expect under it? What would have been > the fabric choices for the corset and the petticoat--linen? > > I looked at the bodice/jacket pattern TV460 (page 52 of the catalog). > Then I stared at the photo--I don't see any obvious front closures or > buttons. Would the front have a somewhat offset (to the side) opening, > or would the buttons just have been "under" the outside of the jacket and > unseen, leaving that small narrow center area fairly smooth? She was not > a woman with any maids, I assure you, she would have had to dress herself > without assistance. Actually, pattern TV420 looks closer to the photo. > > What sort of hat might she have worn? I know there isn't one in the > photo, but I would like to make an appropriate one for the > presentation--for her to take off as she enters the photographer's studio > and primps a bit. > > What might the braided decoration have been made of--a sort of knit black > silk tube? What would be a resource for finding the braid, and either > buying it, or making it? > > Yours in costuming, Lisa A. > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 12:26:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44GQvMx028693 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 12:26:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44GQImB005851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 10:26:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44GQGGi035101; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:26:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.triton.net (mail.triton.net [209.172.0.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i44GQCGi034996 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:26:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tnt1@triton.net) Message-Id: <200405041626.i44GQCGi034996@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 28962 invoked from network); 4 May 2004 16:19:27 -0000 Received: from localhost (127.0.0.1) by mail.triton.net with SMTP; 4 May 2004 16:19:27 -0000 Received: from mail.triton.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (VaMailArmor-2.0.1.16) id 28945-3817751F; Tue, 04 May 2004 12:19:27 -0400 Received: (qmail 28888 invoked from network); 4 May 2004 16:19:25 -0000 Received: from ppp-170.184.triton.net (HELO yourfsyly0jtwn) (216.65.170.184) by mail.triton.net with SMTP; 4 May 2004 16:19:25 -0000 From: "timandterese" To: Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 12:19:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcQx845qlU5m8IJiRHW2ns0SBuCrXg== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-AntiVirus: checked by Vexira MailArmor (version: 2.0.1.16; VAE: 6.25.0.3; VDF: 6.25.0.46; host: mail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] CW middleclass X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello everyone, Newbie here. I hope to learn much and maybe help once in awhile. A question was posed about what a middle class woman would wear in the CW and near post CW era. I am currently working on a dress from the 1850's . During the research I have done, and talking with re-enactors that are very involved with an organization from that time period. If you were married you wore more somber colors. Dark blue, dark green, grey, black. High neck, long sleeves, with under sleeves. You would probably be wearing some version of mourning colors as you most likely knew someone killed in the CW. If you were from the South, you had feathers on your hats, and fancier trim on your dresses. ( so I've heard) northern gals didn't have feathers if you were proper. If you were in a camp dress, you probably didn't use hoops. Most likely a couple petticoats. Probably not a corset, but a stay. Ditto on the stay if you were pregnant. If you were dressed to go to town, or a social function, you did wear a corset. Younger women that were not married wore much lighter colors. And women of improper virture wore red. Hope this helps. Terese in Michigan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 12:31:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44GVjMx028715 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 12:31:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44GVGmB006318 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 10:31:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44GVDGi038801; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:31:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tacitus.washjeff.edu (tacitus.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44GV7Gj038650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:31:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by tacitus.washjeff.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i44HHNWm016227 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 13:17:23 -0400 Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A53752800A6; Tue, 04 May 2004 12:30:47 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.107]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 4 May 2004 12:30:46 -0400 Message-ID: <001f01c431f6$01b87c40$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040503.074640.-503341.1.lisa58@juno.com><001c01c43132$4580a0c0$805183d1@rmitchellras><4096CB05.3877859A@floodcity.net><003f01c43177$d0cd4800$7c5183d1@rmitchellras> <4097AE22.84AD2F0B@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Conservative dress of the Victorian era. Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 12:36:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 May 2004 16:30:46.0761 (UTC) FILETIME=[2732DD90:01C431F5] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That was my first take, re conservative Christian. A two piece dress of jacket and skirt that is not ostentatious in either color or ornamentation. Fran Grimbals book of Reconstruction Era Patterns gives lots of possibilities. Pick your decade or portion thereof and see what you like. I have a lot of photos of this period and there are also some Dover reprints that give a good overview, having been taken from magazines of the period. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty Felton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:52 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Conservative dress of the Victorian era. > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > > > Kitty, I am not sure what you might mean by a religious person'. A nun?, a > > woman with a vocation(catholic or Protestant), a conservative 'Christian', > > Quaker, and etc. Referring to the pic., since she is in a traditional pose > > with a man, I would suggest they were a 'couple'. > > Kathleen > > > > by a religious person, I meant a conservative christian. this doesn't > necessarily mean she wouldn't have been a wife. my question relates to > my search for what sort of garments I would wear if I were trying to > dress not in a very fashionable style but in a more conservative way. > while a dress like a wedding cake is pretty to look at, it just doesn't > seem like something I would enjoy wearing. I would like to learn what > conservative person of the CW or post CW era would wear. would she wear > hoops? how large? I imagine a washer woman would not, but what would > a middle class person wear? I like the look of the skirts swept to the > back, but do not like the strange corsets of the turn of the century. > is there a middle ground? > > Kitty > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 12:34:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44GY1Mx028733 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 12:34:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44GWZmB006431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 10:32:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44GWUGi039846; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:32:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web60601.mail.yahoo.com (web60601.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.118.221]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i44GVSGi038933 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:31:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from delasue@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040504162440.4413.qmail@web60601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.100.222.126] by web60601.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 May 2004 09:24:40 PDT Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:24:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Kay Shelton To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405041505.i44F5UGk075080@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Trevelyon Miscellany X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow. I googled the Folger and there is really quite a bit on line, including embroidery patterns. Probably best to print out, as I suspect they will change the link when their exhibit changes. http://www.folger.edu/public/exhibit/current.asp Kay < Any other questions about the exhibit I could answer? > > Kay __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 13:00:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44H0uMx028868 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 13:00:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44GxHmB009302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 10:59:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44GxGGi060218; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:59:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44Gx6Gi060094 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:59:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.131.214]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 360A270720 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 09:59:04 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 09:59:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hose VS Tights Message-ID: <4097696A.1010.E29FF30@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <8FDB88FE2E8D2440A7FD5542CFE32E28820CDE@exchange.lynchburg.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am soon going to start making a couple sets of hose for my various > outfits. (Italian Ren and a Houppenlaude) I've got some ideas on how > to construct the hose but I have a different question. How are hose > supposed to fit compared to tights? Since I dance ballet mundanely > I've always just used a pair of dance tights. Now I'm trying to be > more authentic but I'm not entirely sure I understand how hose are > supposed to fit. Joined hose (ie "tights") seem to start showing up around 1500. Before that they were two separate legs (and not connected.) As far as the fit, they are shown as being as form fitting as tights except for the middle and lower classes. I don't know how much of that is "artistic license" and how well they really did fit. But then, they were working with textiles that behave differently than our modern ones do. Their textiles do seem to have more "give" and "elasticity" than we'd think they would when compared to modern "equivalents." Because of that natural elasticity, they wouldn't bag as much either. The artists do show some creases at the knee which look very much like those that tights get when the knee is bent, which makes me lean more toward good fit as opposed to "artistic license." Most of the hose seem to be held up by tying them to the layers of the upper body. (You can see this mostly when the person is working or slovenly and has untied them for more ease of movement or necessity for functions which require the back of the drawers to be dropped.) I'd give you some pics to look at but my sources are all in slide form (from a class I teach on Western European medieval and renaissance underwear.) I hope this gives you a starting point at least. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 13:47:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44HlOMx029406 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 13:47:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44HjBmB014003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 11:45:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44Hj8Gi095924; Tue, 4 May 2004 11:45:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav19.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44Hj2Gi095724 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 11:45:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katdevereaux@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 4 May 2004 10:27:39 -0700 Received: from 207.2.164.194 by bay1-dav19.adinternal.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 04 May 2004 17:27:39 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [207.2.164.194] X-Originating-Email: [katdevereaux@hotmail.com] X-Sender: katdevereaux@hotmail.com From: "Katharine Devereaux" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hose VS Tights Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:27:38 -0400 Message-ID: <008801c431fd$18f45850$7900000a@govolution.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <4097696A.1010.E29FF30@localhost> Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 May 2004 17:27:39.0554 (UTC) FILETIME=[1961C020:01C431FD] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nathan, The joined hosen start in the 15th century, early to mid 1400s. They were usually made of 2x2 twill wool cut on the bias for a good stretch to fit around the whole leg without stretching the fabric. These are then attached to your doublet or pourpointe (if you're not wearing a doublet) via lacing holes as they ride on the hips rather than the waist. Then the gown or houppelaunde(sp?) would be worn over the doublet. The best way to have these made to fit would be to have someone fit them directly to you. The information above is what our 15th century living history group uses for the men's hose. We are based in the DC area. Nathan, don't you play in the SCA with the Barony of Ponte Alto every now and then when you aren't at school?? Let me know. If so, then I think I know who can help you understand more about this. Thanks! Kim Kimberly Hulse SCA: Katharine Devereaux Alexandria, VA -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of kat@grendal.rain.com Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 12:59 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hose VS Tights > I am soon going to start making a couple sets of hose for my various > outfits. (Italian Ren and a Houppenlaude) I've got some ideas on how > to construct the hose but I have a different question. How are hose > supposed to fit compared to tights? Since I dance ballet mundanely > I've always just used a pair of dance tights. Now I'm trying to be > more authentic but I'm not entirely sure I understand how hose are > supposed to fit. Joined hose (ie "tights") seem to start showing up around 1500. Before that they were two separate legs (and not connected.) As far as the fit, they are shown as being as form fitting as tights except for the middle and lower classes. I don't know how much of that is "artistic license" and how well they really did fit. But then, they were working with textiles that behave differently than our modern ones do. Their textiles do seem to have more "give" and "elasticity" than we'd think they would when compared to modern "equivalents." Because of that natural elasticity, they wouldn't bag as much either. The artists do show some creases at the knee which look very much like those that tights get when the knee is bent, which makes me lean more toward good fit as opposed to "artistic license." Most of the hose seem to be held up by tying them to the layers of the upper body. (You can see this mostly when the person is working or slovenly and has untied them for more ease of movement or necessity for functions which require the back of the drawers to be dropped.) I'd give you some pics to look at but my sources are all in slide form (from a class I teach on Western European medieval and renaissance underwear.) I hope this gives you a starting point at least. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 14:28:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44ISmMx029630 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 14:28:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44IQhmB018705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 12:26:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44IQXGi028803; Tue, 4 May 2004 12:26:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [69.17.45.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44IQUGi028736 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 12:26:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Received: from [192.168.1.5] (adsl-63-202-186-203.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.186.203]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F32792F89F for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 11:28:19 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <20040504162440.4413.qmail@web60601.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040504162440.4413.qmail@web60601.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <8D9C8AF0-9DF8-11D8-B1ED-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Meadows Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 11:26:26 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Eterna silk floss X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What's the best place to order Eterna floss from? Also -- I've never used it before, and I'm going to be using it to stitch a border around the edge of a self-fabric applique on a stomacher. (This is for a modern wedding dress, and I wanted to dress up the cut edge a bit.) Can anyone give me a ballpark of how much I should order? I'm having a more experienced needleworker do the embroidery, but I need to do the ordering... Thank you! .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 14:59:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44IxiMx029783 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 14:59:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44IwNmB022115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 12:58:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44IwHGi054025; Tue, 4 May 2004 12:58:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smapp01.siteprotect.com (smapp01.siteprotect.com [66.113.136.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44IwCGi053980 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 12:58:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from smapp01.siteprotect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smapp01.siteprotect.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i44HZTa27604 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 12:35:29 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 12:35:29 -0500 Message-Id: <200405041735.i44HZTa27604@smapp01.siteprotect.com> From: cschmitt@genteelarts.com To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] CW middleclass X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Therese wrote: <<....and talking with re-enactors that are very involved with an organization from that time period>> At the risk of sounding like a real grinch, I would be VERY interested in hearing the documentation these folks used for some of their statements. "Myths" and "reenactorisms" like these have been perpetuated for decades without any solid research or documentation. <> There is no factual basis for this statement. There are literally hundreds of original garments documented to the age and marital status of the wearer that are made of brighter colors and patterns. Whether a dress has a high or low neckline, short or long sleeves, etc. depends much more on the overall style of the garment, the occasion for which it is worn, and the socio-economic class of the wearer than it does on marital status. <> Not everyone wore mourning, and not everyone followed mourning dictates. Again, socio-economic status, customs, and personal preferences would determine if, where or when someone chose to don mourning dress. <> This is so patently false it is outrageous. I suspect the underlying source for this statement has more to do with Hollywood than it does with an history. <> The term "camp dress" did not exist in the mid-19th century. It is an advertising term used by modern vendors to sell what is more properly called a "wash dress". Wash dresses may have been worn over petticoats when doing physical labor, but on most other occasions they were worn over a (properly-sized) crinoline. While stays may have been worn by some women (more likely older women who were used to and comfortable with their fit), corsets were the most common form of supportive undergarment. The number of women who had legitimate reasons for being in a military camp were infintesimal when compared to the overall female population. Of those that did have reason for being there, the vast majority of them dressed no differently from any other woman of the period. <> There is evidence of the use of gestational (maternity) stays, primarily in the antebellum years, and they may have continued to be worn by some women. However, gestational corsets were also available. My research indicates corsets, including the gestational versions, were much more common than stays during this period. <> Research indicates that corsets were worn daily from morning to night for all occasions, not just for specific events. Going without one would be extremely uncomfortable and highly unusual. <> Period magazines have numerous articles on selecting flattering colors for women of all ages. Lighter colors are often recommended for younger women, but they are also suggested for mature women for certain occasions. Again, it depends on the circumstance, the occasion for wearing, and the color in question. <> Another myth with no historical basis. There are hundreds of primary source references (original garments, diaries, letters, journals, newspaper articles, etc.) that document perfectly respectable women wearing all shades of red. I've tried not to make this reply not sound too strident (mean, nasty, bitchy, etc.), but I don't think I've succeeded. :-) I've developed a very low tolerance for those folks who continue to perpetuate mis-statements, half-truths and absolute falsehoods to the detriment of those trying to learn more about costume of any period. When anyone (including me) makes a similar pronouncement in the future, I sincerely encourage you to (politely) ask for their source and/or documentation. And nothing beats doing your own research. :-) Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 3-6, 2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 15:12:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44JCbMx029881 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 15:12:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44JASmB023442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 13:10:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44JAOGi063610; Tue, 4 May 2004 13:10:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44JAEGi063374 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 13:10:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scourney@nwlink.com) Received: from susan (ip157.usw235.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [207.202.235.157]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 07FD26E70E for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 12:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <014201c4320c$1d0e9db0$0300a8c0@susan> From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200405041735.i44HZTa27604@smapp01.siteprotect.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 12:15:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What is the difference between stays and a corset? Susan ------------------------------------------------------------ > <> > > The term "camp dress" did not exist in the mid-19th century. It is an advertising term used by modern vendors to sell what is more properly called a "wash dress". Wash dresses may have been worn over petticoats when doing physical labor, but on most other occasions they were worn over a (properly-sized) crinoline. While stays may have been worn by some women (more likely older women who were used to and comfortable with their fit), corsets were the most common form of supportive undergarment. The number of women who had legitimate reasons for being in a military camp were infintesimal when compared to the overall female population. Of those that did have reason for being there, the vast majority of them dressed no differently from any other woman of the period. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 15:22:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44JMAMx029964 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 15:22:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44JLKmB024678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 13:21:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44JLGGi072702; Tue, 4 May 2004 13:21:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44JLDGi072547 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 13:21:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i44JL0T01851.; Tue, 4 May 2004 20:21:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 04 May 2004 20:21:00 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 20:20:37 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] CW middleclass Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolann wrote: <> >This is so patently false it is outrageous. I suspect the underlying source >for this statement has more to do with Hollywood than it does with an >history. Sounds like the British cliche that you could instantly tell what side a person was on in our civil war by looking at their clothes. <> > While stays may have been worn by some women (more likely older >women who were used to and comfortable with their fit), corsets were the >most common form of supportive undergarment. Is there a technical difference? I thought a corset was the 19th century term for what in the 18th century would have been called a pair of stays. Were they two distinctive garments? Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 15:39:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44JdsMx030076 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 15:39:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44JbRmB026369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 13:37:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44JbNm5085100; Tue, 4 May 2004 13:37:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44JbIm5084990 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 13:37:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.172] (pm5-172.eos.net [205.133.149.172]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44JbCkG002069 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 15:37:12 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 15:35:21 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200405041803.i44I3qGj011199@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: hose fit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjorn: My husband wears hose, not me, but I think I can answer some questions. He did not make his good hose, he bought them from Historic Enterprises (www.historicenterprises.com). They are "open" hose -- with two separate legs, not closed like tights. And they are made of wool, not cotton or linen. Wool gives them a much tighter fit. As for how they fit - they are quite tight. There's a bit of bagginess around the knee, but the look is much closer to tights than you might think. Check the website above to see. He wears them with garters that buckle under the knee, and that helps keep them from "poofing." He ties them with points to his braes -- which he did make himself. He ties them only at the front top, where they come to a sort of a point, if that makes sense. With short cotes you do see the white braes, which looks quite "right" and (as long as your fabric is thick enough) isn't indecent. He has had these particular hose for at least five years, and wears them a lot. They have holes in the toes, but otherwise have not worn much and certainly have kept their shape. We just washed them last week for the first time!!! In between wearings we air them out for a day or two, and they don't have any odor at all. BTW, he finds them very comfortable. He does have some linen hose, and they are baggier. Still, they are not loose by any means. In my opinion, they don't look quite right -- but they do look more correct than dance tights or trousers! Linen is looser than cotton, which doesn't have the right stretch at all. Whatever fabric you use, you must cut them on the bias. This is essential to the fit. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 15:48:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44JmnMx030154 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 15:48:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44JkvmB027439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 13:46:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44JknwX092998; Tue, 4 May 2004 13:46:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smapp01.siteprotect.com (smapp01.siteprotect.com [66.113.136.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44JkewX092873 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 13:46:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from smapp01.siteprotect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smapp01.siteprotect.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i44Jkea16509 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 14:46:40 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:46:40 -0500 Message-Id: <200405041946.i44Jkea16509@smapp01.siteprotect.com> From: cschmitt@genteelarts.com To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Susan, In earlier centuries, a tightly-fitted supportive undergarment was referred to as "stays" or "a pair of stays". By the mid-19th century this term had faded from common use and was replaced by the term "corset", although there were some women who still referred to the garment as "stays". In this context, and if I understood Therese correctly, most Civil War reenactors use the term "stays" to refer to a garment made from sturdy (usually cotton) fabric, constructed with shoulder straps, a center back opening, and stiffened with multiple rows of cord. They use the word "corset" to refer to a garment usually constructed without straps, a center front opening that closes with a busk, back lacing, and stiffened with steel or baleen. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 3-6, 2005 ------------------------------------------------ > > What is the difference between stays and a corset? > > Susan >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 16:06:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44K60Mx030227 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 16:06:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44K3vmB029031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 14:03:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44K3pJd006766; Tue, 4 May 2004 14:03:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80509.mail.yahoo.com (web80509.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i44K3nJd006675 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 14:03:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040504200342.47594.qmail@web80509.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.104.228.236] by web80509.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 May 2004 13:03:42 PDT Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:03:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405041803.i44I3qGj011199@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Hose VS Tights X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kim wrote: The best way to have these made to fit would be to have someone fit them directly to you. Also, if you are using a woven fabric (and if you are, terrific!), they are cut on the bias. That way, you get stretch without it binding. If you want to take a slightly easier path than bias-cut woven hose, 100% wool jersey works up into very nice hose, and can be dyed to any color desired. It still should be fitted to the person wearing the hose, but does not have to be cut on the bias. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 16:10:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44KAkMx030252 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 16:10:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44KA6mB029673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 14:10:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44KA3Jd011481; Tue, 4 May 2004 14:10:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44KA0Jd011360 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 14:10:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 970594 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 May 2004 13:09:54 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 13:09:55 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Puff & Slash handout From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4097AC7D.6080207@reddawn.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Saragrace, I've been trying since this morning to access your handout but am still unable to get the page to open. I keep getting the "can not open after one minutes" error. LynnD On 5/4/04 7:45 AM, "Dawn" wrote: > Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > >> >> For those who are unable to make it, the handout is available here: >> http://www.grimmarmoury.com/docs/PS_2003_Entire_Doc.pdf >> >> Graciously hosted by Jason of the Grimm Armoury. WARNING, this is a BEAST >> of a document and will take a long time to load and download. >> > > I'm getting a 'grimmarmoury.com cannot be found' error when I try that > address. > > > > Dawn > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 16:40:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44KeCMx030570 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 16:40:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44KbomB003036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 14:37:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44KblJd033594; Tue, 4 May 2004 14:37:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smapp01.siteprotect.com (smapp01.siteprotect.com [66.113.136.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44KbjJd033566 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 14:37:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from smapp01.siteprotect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smapp01.siteprotect.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i44Kbia24655 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 15:37:44 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:37:44 -0500 Message-Id: <200405042037.i44Kbia24655@smapp01.siteprotect.com> From: cschmitt@genteelarts.com To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] CW middleclass X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In the lexicon of most American Civil War reenactors, the terms are usually used to refer to garments that are technically quite different in style and construction. (I mentioned some of the basic differences in a previous post). In a general historic fashion context they are used much more interdhangeably. Based on my research of American primary sources, the most common terminology used during the period seems to be "stays" or "a pair of stays" in the first decades of the century (approximately 1800-1840s); "stays" and "corset" used interchangeably in the next few decades (late 1840s - early 1870s); and "corset" for the remainder of the century (1870s-1900). Of course, usage of a particular term can depend on several variables, including geographic region, local custom, and editorial preference. :-) Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 3-6, 2005 > Is there a technical difference? I thought a corset was the 19th > century term for what in the 18th century would have been called a pair > of stays. Were they two distinctive garments? > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 17:12:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44LCpMx030733 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 17:12:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44LAwmB006290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 15:10:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44LArJd060384; Tue, 4 May 2004 15:10:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i44LAqJd060280 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 15:10:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OlOAdzUQT5O3egz1mJvG5VQ= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JUTLPPXB; Tue, 04 May 2004 14:10:10 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:09:04 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Trevelyon Miscellany Message-ID: <20040504.140905.1392.4.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-7 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Were you able to find all of the embroidery patterns? Or was that all of them on the Folger site? Droolworthy. wow. =) Thanks! Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 17:34:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44LYoMx030802 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 17:34:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44LYBmB008970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 15:34:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44LY2Jd078132; Tue, 4 May 2004 15:34:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from exchange.lynchburg.edu ([161.115.184.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44LXxJd078082 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 15:33:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formo@lynchburg.edu) Received: by exchange.lynchburg.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 4 May 2004 17:22:03 -0400 Message-ID: <8FDB88FE2E8D2440A7FD5542CFE32E28820CDF@exchange.lynchburg.edu> From: "Formo, Nathan" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hose VS Tights Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 17:22:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Joined hose (ie "tights") seem to start showing up around 1500. > Before that they were two separate legs (and not connected.) So hose for my doublet (with slopes and panes, probably post 1550 in style) would definitely be joined. I'm still wondering about the hose for my houppelaunde (1400-1500 is as much as I've ever been able to narrow this garment down). The pictures I used to base it on were from this site http://www.beato-de-liebana.com/de/fotos_sanitatis.html and also some paintings by Jan van Eyck. In both cases these are dress like garments, often above the knee. Would the hose with such a garmet really be unjoined? (I have to admit that while I'm brave enough to wear a houppelaunde and hose I'm not thrilled at the idea of the hose not being a solid joined pair.) Of course along that line it shouldn't matter if I just go ahead and make them a joined pair. The only way someone could challenge how the hose are designed is if I started to flash all of the garb-snarks. That or the errant gust of wind.... > As far as the fit, they are shown as being as form fitting as tights > except for the middle and lower classes. I don't know how much of > that is "artistic license" and how well they really did fit. But > then, they were working with textiles that behave differently than > our modern ones do. Their textiles do seem to have more "give" and > "elasticity" than we'd think they would when compared to modern > "equivalents." Because of that natural elasticity, they wouldn't bag > as much either. The artists do show some creases at the knee which > look very much like those that tights get when the knee is bent, > which makes me lean more toward good fit as opposed to "artistic > license." mixing the two differnt replies here.... > The best way to have these made to fit would be to have > someone fit them > directly to you. Actually I have an idea I'm going to try. It probably won't work but if it does then I should end up with a very nice fitting pair of hose. I've seen several mentions of the famous "duck tape doubles". So why wouldn't that work for hose? I've got a couple bad pairs of tights. I'm going to put one on and then wrap with tape, constantly flexing and bending my leg in the process. (I've messed up making pants before because when I measured I forgot that muscles tend to move.) Theoretically this should give me a comfortable but close fitting outline. When I cut the tape off then I can take it and use it as the pattern to cut my material. Add an inch or so for the seams and "opps I messed up" room and I should have a perfect outline for hose, right? (Or when this fails I'll have a very amusing story of what not to try.) > The information above is what our 15th century living history > group uses > for the men's hose. We are based in the DC area. > > Nathan, don't you play in the SCA with the Barony of Ponte Alto every > now and then when you aren't at school?? I'm actually in the northern end of the Barony of Black Diamond. (Lynchburg VA) I've been to one or two events like Holiday Faire and the Celtic Festival in Alexandria a couple times but I don't think you would really know me from any of those times. Still I'm not that far away if there are some good resources I should be trying to catch up with. Bjorn Arnaldsson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 17:37:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44LbOMx030816 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 17:37:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44LZMmB009082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 15:35:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44LZMJd079205; Tue, 4 May 2004 15:35:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44LZHJd079150 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 15:35:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BL7ZM-00079s-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 May 2004 14:35:17 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Puff & Slash handout-server problems Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:35:31 -0700 Message-ID: <000601c4321f$ba080800$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank your for letting me know. Jason will work on that when he gets home this evening. > -----Original Message----- > Behalf Of Lynn Downward > Saragrace, I've been trying since this morning to access your handout but am > still unable to get the page to open. I keep getting the "can not open after > one minutes" error. > > LynnD > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 18:03:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44M3EMx030882 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 18:03:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44LwlmB011652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 15:58:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44LwhJd097502; Tue, 4 May 2004 15:58:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44LwdJe097432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 15:58:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-104.sonic.net [209.148.112.104]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i44Lwas4015134 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 14:58:38 -0700 Message-ID: <40981317.1070109@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 15:03:03 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO 19th-century fashion terminology, including that for garment types, fabrics, sewing techniques, etc., was by no means standardized. I've seen the terms "stays," "corset," "pair of stays," and "pair of corsets" used interchangeably into the early 1880s at least. It's the same with many other terms. Different terms are often used in different articles in the same publication, or even in the same paragraph describing the same garment; let alone in different publications. People did not tend to worry about copyediting consistency then the way they do now. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com > >Is there a technical difference? I thought a corset was the 19th >century term for what in the 18th century would have been called a pair >of stays. Were they two distinctive garments? > > > >Kate Bunting > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 18:24:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44MOGMx030976 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 18:24:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44MLHmB013806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 16:21:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44MLAJd014576; Tue, 4 May 2004 16:21:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav59.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44ML4Jd014439 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 16:21:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 4 May 2004 15:20:59 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.93 by bay1-dav59.adinternal.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 04 May 2004 22:20:59 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.93] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40981317.1070109@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 18:20:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 May 2004 22:20:59.0441 (UTC) FILETIME=[13BB6210:01C43226] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've also seen the term "bodies" isn't that one also correct? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass > 19th-century fashion terminology, including that for garment types, > fabrics, sewing techniques, etc., was by no means standardized. I've > seen the terms "stays," "corset," "pair of stays," and "pair of corsets" > used interchangeably into the early 1880s at least. It's the same with > many other terms. Different terms are often used in different articles > in the same publication, or even in the same paragraph describing the > same garment; let alone in different publications. People did not tend > to worry about copyediting consistency then the way they do now. > > Fran > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > > >Is there a technical difference? I thought a corset was the 19th > >century term for what in the 18th century would have been called a pair > >of stays. Were they two distinctive garments? > > > > > > > >Kate Bunting > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 19:19:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44NJfMx031271 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 19:19:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44NIqmB018514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 17:18:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44NIgJd053048; Tue, 4 May 2004 17:18:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44NIdJd053014 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 17:18:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-87-66.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.87.66]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i44NINfq024064 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 16:18:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040504153047.022fd520@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 15:43:48 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] sepia photo In-Reply-To: <20040504.083423.-179921.0.lisa58@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Looking at the photo very carefully, I think that the hip "bulge", which >is clearly circumferential, could be from the bottom edge of the corset, >as it "drapes down" just below, where the rigid structural effect would >stop. It might just be a tuck in the fabric all the way around. In the later 1880s this happened enough times to be noteworthy, tho not every dress had it. Question--whta sort of corset? i.e. what years, style? Since I'm guessing c1890, I'd say a hip-length corset. >9-gore skirt than a 4- or 5-gore skirt, and may well have extra fullness >(or even a bustle, although that actually begins to seems less likely) in >the back. It does not seem to have any sort of train. That, and the shape of the 'jacket' would be consistent with c1890. That and the sleeve caps. >What sort of petticoat would you expect under it? Fitted at the hips and flaring out somewhat below that. >I looked at the bodice/jacket pattern TV460 (page 52 of the catalog). >Then I stared at the photo--I don't see any obvious front closures or >buttons. Would the front have a somewhat offset (to the side) opening, >or would the buttons just have been "under" the outside of the jacket and >unseen, leaving that small narrow center area fairly smooth? She was not >a woman with any maids, I assure you, she would have had to dress herself >without assistance. Actually, pattern TV420 looks closer to the photo. I'd say the top is a 'jacket' with a front panel. The closures would be in front and just under one of the 'jacket' fronts. >What sort of hat might she have worn? I know there isn't one in the >photo, but I would like to make an appropriate one for the >presentation--for her to take off as she enters the photographer's studio >and primps a bit. Right at 1890 there was a popular flat hat with the back of the brim narrower than the front and rippled with extra fullness. The decoration goes around the crown and sometimes under the rippled part of the brim. >What might the braided decoration have been made of--a sort of knit black >silk tube? What would be a resource for finding the braid, and either >buying it, or making it? I'd think the braid was cord, sewn up into an applique and tacked on separately. Mail order catalogs from the late 1880s show various trim bits made like that, which you could purchase and apply to whatever garment you had or made. Some of these appliques are sleeveless-vest-shaped like the one apparently in this photo. The kind of trimming around the bottom of the 'jacket' is the kind that could be bought by the yard from the same catalogs. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 19:28:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i44NSCMx031295 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 19:28:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44NMJmB018722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 17:22:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44NMGJd055143; Tue, 4 May 2004 17:22:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i44NM9Jd055073 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 17:22:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.132.29]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DE0A6B0CE for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 16:22:05 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 16:21:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hose VS Tights Message-ID: <4097C325.12096.F88B1C0@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <8FDB88FE2E8D2440A7FD5542CFE32E28820CDF@exchange.lynchburg.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Joined hose (ie "tights") seem to start showing up around 1500. > > Before that they were two separate legs (and not connected.) > > So hose for my doublet (with slopes and panes, probably post 1550 in > style) would definitely be joined. I'm still wondering about the hose > for my houppelaunde (1400-1500 is as much as I've ever been able to > narrow this garment down). It really depends on when you are speaking of in the 15th C. There is a painting from 1493 which shows joined hose (Carpaccio's Martyrdom of the Pilgrims and Funeral of St. Ursula) but the further back before that you go, the more rare it is to see a back view where it is joined. And unless you have a back view, they look like they are joined even when they are separate legs. It's like in the 1960s when we were wearing miniskirts before pantihose came along. People now think that we couldn't have done it, but believe me, we had *very* short skirts and "divided hose" but didn't show our private areas (as long as we were careful how we walked, reached and sat.) And we didn't have the hose able to come all the way up to the waist like the divided hose the men in period wore. That would have made life a lot easier. The pictures I used to base it on were > from this site http://www.beato-de-liebana.com/de/fotos_sanitatis.html > and also some paintings by Jan van Eyck. >From both of those they would definitely be divided hose. They don't have all of the ones from "sanitatis" which show the hose which has one side still up and the other rolled down around the calf, or both rolled to the calf. And van Eyck's time period they definitely had divided hose. There are several paintings and other forms of art which show what the gentlemen look like when they don't have their upper legs as fully covered (because they have stripped to just their doublet and hose.) If you have access to a book by Jacqueline Herald called _Renaissance Dress in Italy 1400-1500_ it can be seen very clearly on pages 62, 211 and 216. From the side or in an oblique view, these fellows would look like they were wearing regular tights, but when you see them from the back you can tell that they are divided. Or go to http://www.artchive.com/artchive/ftptoc/piero_ext.html and click on "Battle between Heraclius and Chosroes" which has the fellow from the Herald book in color in the center of the painting. In both cases these are > dress like garments, often above the knee. Would the hose with such a > garmet really be unjoined? (I have to admit that while I'm brave > enough to wear a houppelaunde and hose I'm not thrilled at the idea of > the hose not being a solid joined pair.) Of course along that line it > shouldn't matter if I just go ahead and make them a joined pair. The > only way someone could challenge how the hose are designed is if I > started to flash all of the garb-snarks. That or the errant gust of > wind.... Unless you are in a situation (like some contests) where it matters, it would probably be just fine to wear the regular tights. However, many of the guys I know who do 14th and 15th C wear unjoined hose. (And sometimes take off their overgarments so that it's quite obvious they aren't joined. But with the appropriate underwear, nothing shows except the bottom of the tucked in shirt anyway.) And with 16th C stuff, go ahead and wear the tights. Most guys do (although they may have been wearing hose which only came up to the bottom of their "trunkhose" which took the place of the top part of the hose as that part "evolved.") > Actually I have an idea I'm going to try. It probably won't work but > if it does then I should end up with a very nice fitting pair of hose. > I've seen several mentions of the famous "duck tape doubles". So why > wouldn't that work for hose? I've got a couple bad pairs of tights. > I'm going to put one on and then wrap with tape, constantly flexing > and bending my leg in the process. (I've messed up making pants > before because when I measured I forgot that muscles tend to move.) It's difficult to fit hose because bodies give more than a "dummy" does. Dummies are great for structured garments, but not as good for legs and the like. It really is best to do them on the leg itself. > Theoretically this should give me a comfortable but close fitting > outline. When I cut the tape off then I can take it and use it as the > pattern to cut my material. Add an inch or so for the seams and "opps > I messed up" room and I should have a perfect outline for hose, right? > (Or when this fails I'll have a very amusing story of what not to > try.) Well, you could try it. But the ones I've seen done that way don't seem to accommodate the moving leg very well. They seem to end up with too much fabric where it's ok to have less and too little where you need it most. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 20:06:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4506GMx031511 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 20:06:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4505QmB021902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 18:05:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4505MJd078577; Tue, 4 May 2004 18:05:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4505KJd078557 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 18:05:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 26E775CC0A1; Tue, 4 May 2004 20:05:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0389.floodcity.net [198.93.212.135]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B671D5CC0E3 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 20:05:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40982F6F.FFD927C5@floodcity.net> Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 20:03:59 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Singer book of sewing machine embroidery References: <4.1.20040422144100.0180aeb0@mail.frys.com> <4.1.20040422155657.02f94af0@mail.frys.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20040428034304.034b0668@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you. I've been interested in this book ever since I first heard of it on the treadleon List, and I never expected to hear of it being reprinted. Thanks very much, Kitty Kimiko Small wrote: > > At 11:55 PM 4/27/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >I'd be interested in finding out where to find this book, > > thanks, Kitty > > Hi Kitty, > > Singer Instructions of Art Embroidery and Lace Work > I found my copy on eBay, one of the originals. Singer reprinted the book, > and I have found a listing for them on Amazon. com as used copies, > apparently it is out of print again. > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0932086195/qid=1083148935/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-5062285-9948754?v=glance&s=books > > Oh, refining my search, I have found the newest edition on Amazon. > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0916896242/qid=1083149080/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-5062285-9948754?v=glance&s=books > > Good luck and enjoy the book, it has been wonderful to look over. I hope to > find time to learn how to do myself. > > Kimiko > > Kimiko Small > Owner & Creator of DreamTime Studios; Website TBA. > > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 21:35:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i451ZrMx031852 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 21:35:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i451Z5mB027392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 19:35:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i451YrJd022867; Tue, 4 May 2004 19:34:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i451YqJd022827 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 19:34:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.165] (pm5-165.eos.net [205.133.149.165]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i451YnkG017848 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 21:34:49 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 21:33:37 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200405042223.i44MNBJe016029@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: hose X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjorn: If the houppelande is long enough, the hose could either be joined or separate. Separate hose are MUCH easier to make and fit, and as I said, are not uncomfortable or indecent. If you want to make joined hose, it's a whole different kettle of fish. That's a seriously fitted garment. While your duct tape idea sounds possible, I don't know how well it would work because (unlike, say, a corset) you'll need these things to fit when you move, not just when you stand in place. And my husband says that they probably need to be tied to a pourpoint (tight-fitting vest or jacket) to fit right, and that they have to be tied in the back as well as in the front. He says this makes them hard to sit in comfortably. Check this web page for a look at the various hosen sold by Historic Enterprises (no connection -- satisfied customer -- etc. etc.) What you are talking about are the 15th century hose they sell for $120. That price reflects the difficulty. They also sell a "cheater" pair made of t-shirt material for only $30. And they sell the separate hose, which they show worn with braes. All of these should be on this page, if I did it correctly: http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=6 That will give you a good idea of what these garments should look and fit like. Good luck with whatever you do! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 23:11:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i453BHMx032295 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 23:11:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4539cmB003306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 21:09:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4539XJd069635; Tue, 4 May 2004 21:09:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4539VJd069607 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 21:09:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kendra@tweedlebop.com) Received: from unknown (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@69.106.234.23 with login) by smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2004 03:09:29 -0000 Message-ID: <009801c4324e$60533440$0202a8c0@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1700's dress ? Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 20:09:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't think anyone responded to this, so I will. Yes, it's definitely a LOOSE interpretation of a 1700's gown. I won't list the things that are wrong with it (historically), only to say check out some books and websites with period paintings(http://www.marquise.de/en/1700/index.shtml) and original garments (http://demode.tweedlebop.com/realvict.html) for comparison. It's trying to be a robe a la polonaise, which usually looks more like this: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/eudr/hob_1970.87a,b.htm The ruffle at the hem is common with this style, but it is usually wider (from top to bottom) and the underskirt is usually less full at the hem, giving less of a bunchy look at the hem. - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" > I have this Butterick pattern 3640. Is this a loose rendition of mid to late > 1700s French? And is the ruffle at the hem common with this style. > This is not my area of interest so I am asking. > > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.page.4&TI=10013&M= > &pageSize=9&UK=31998842 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 23:18:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i453I3Mx032317 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 23:18:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i453HZmB003856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 21:17:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i453HZJd073967; Tue, 4 May 2004 21:17:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i453HUJd073931 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 21:17:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-87-66.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.87.66]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i453HGYT002572 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 22:17:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040504193129.024da3e0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 19:33:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Singer book of sewing machine embroidery In-Reply-To: <40982F6F.FFD927C5@floodcity.net> References: <4.1.20040422144100.0180aeb0@mail.frys.com> <4.1.20040422155657.02f94af0@mail.frys.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20040428034304.034b0668@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Aparently this goes in and out of print. I forget if I got my copy new or used. It is truly amazing what they could get a machine, that only sews straight ahead, to do. >Thank you. I've been interested in this book ever since I first heard >of it on the treadleon List, and I never expected to hear of it being >reprinted. Thanks very much, Kitty >> Singer Instructions of Art Embroidery and Lace Work >> I found my copy on eBay, one of the originals. Singer reprinted the book, >> and I have found a listing for them on Amazon. com as used copies, >> apparently it is out of print again. >> >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0932086195/qid=1083148935/sr=1 >-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-5062285-9948754?v=glance&s=books >> >> Oh, refining my search, I have found the newest edition on Amazon. >> >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0916896242/qid=1083149080/sr=1 >-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-5062285-9948754?v=glance&s=books >> >> Good luck and enjoy the book, it has been wonderful to look over. I hope to >> find time to learn how to do myself. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 4 23:34:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i453YwMx032372 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 23:34:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i453XFmB004700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 21:33:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i453XDJd081679; Tue, 4 May 2004 21:33:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i453XAJd081666 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 21:33:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.184] (p24.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.184]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i453W6N09990 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 21:32:07 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 21:14:23 -0600 From: Sylvia To: Historic Costume list Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Victorian occupational costume books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Anyone know of any good books on either English or American historical occupational dress? Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 00:04:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4544OMx032446 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 00:04:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4543lmB006755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 May 2004 22:03:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4543jJd096701; Tue, 4 May 2004 22:03:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from copper.caltel.com (ns3.caltel.com [205.214.42.66] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4543fJd096665 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 22:03:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from willowcreek@caltel.com) Received: (qmail 2894 invoked from network); 5 May 2004 04:03:38 -0000 Received: from max608.caltel.com (HELO caltel.com) (209.101.254.166) by 0 with SMTP; 5 May 2004 04:03:38 -0000 Message-ID: <40986781.6030606@caltel.com> Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 21:03:13 -0700 From: Amy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200405041133.i44BWqGk070667@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200405041133.i44BWqGk070667@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 1600 Purses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a pattern that has dozens of black and white drawings of purses from the Renaissance era. Unfortunately, I don't know where it is right now. But they are out there! If you have access to an Alter Years catalogue, check in it. The pattern I have is from that book! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 05:37:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i459b7Mx028773 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 05:37:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i459aPmB021869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 03:36:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i459aDJd036609; Wed, 5 May 2004 03:36:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i459aAJe036583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 03:36:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i459Y7Yu024981 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 05:34:07 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 05 May 2004 05:34:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4098B588.4060009@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 05:36:08 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: hose References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > And my husband says that they probably need to be tied to a pourpoint > (tight-fitting vest or jacket) to fit right, and that they have to be tied > in the back as well as in the front. He says this makes them hard to sit in > comfortably. In invented a sort of suspender-system out of cotton belting for my husband, because he didn't want to wear a pourpoint. It reaches from the top of his thigh in front, up over the shoulders, and down the the waist in back. It has a "belt" which passes through loops in the vertical bits, and two bars in front and back at chest level to stop it from sliding off his shoulders. The hosen tie to the vertical bits in front, but not in back, because they're Historic Enterprises hose with only one tie place each. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 07:19:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45BJTMx030901 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 07:19:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45BIlmB026292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 05:18:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45BI7Jd080112; Wed, 5 May 2004 05:18:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45BGRJd078904 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 05:17:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.ac.57192244 (3699) for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 07:15:39 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 07:15:39 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5016 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/4/2004 2:59:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, cschmitt@genteelarts.com writes: If you were married you wore more somber colors. Dark blue, dark green, grey, black. My dissertation research was on the transition from natural to synthetic dyes in the mid 19th century. The first synthetic dyes were developed in the late 1850s and they were very popular. They could be brilliant, even, we might consider, garish. The first ones were mauve and magenta, and then a variety of purples and blues. I not only looked at dye technology and use, but also the colors that were described in Godey's Lady's Book. It may be hard to tell from extant garments how very bright they once were, as these early dyes were, notoriously, not fast to light and thus may have faded. But you can see swatches in dye books, and I have seen a photo of a dress in a collection that still retains its brilliant purple color. However black was always thought to be correct, and not just for mourning. For example, in 1857, black was "the standard," and in 1861 it was "the staple for street wear." Various shades of drab (tans/browns) and dove (grays) were also mentioned in the fashion literature. So somber shades would not be incorrect, but certainly weren't the only alternative. One thing that fascinated me was that, from looking at Godey's, you wouldn't really know there was a war going on. Contrast this to women's magazines from World War II, where every man pictured was in uniform and there were all kinds of articles about how one could support the effort on the home front. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 08:10:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45CAYMx032661 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 08:10:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45CA4mB028902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 06:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45C9SJd003307; Wed, 5 May 2004 06:09:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m03.lax.untd.com (m03.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i45C4OJd000628 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 06:04:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa58@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 9q05Lp5l6pU14shT5B1ERptHBUv2wIjOnRiCit0k5aU8mTOOfra5hQ== Received: (from lisa58@juno.com) by m03.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JUU7UP2N; Wed, 05 May 2004 05:04:12 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 07:52:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] photo Message-ID: <20040505.080124.-792753.6.lisa58@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 9-10,14-17,20-21 From: Lisa A Ashton Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO HAving a rare day off yesterday (!) and having a bunch of errends to do, I rambled on over to G Street Fabrics in Rockville (just to look, mind you, usually too expensive) and was able to pick up some fabric swatches to start thinking about fabrics for the sepia photo dress. Two are wool crepes--medium to heavy, and one is a gorgeous rust color, the other more of a deep rose beige; the third fabric was from the "specials"table of men's suitings--it was a nice mid-beige with a sort of random pattern of pale black vertical short lines (there is probably a name for it, but it wasn't on the label). It had the right weight but the crepe drapes better, of course. And I found some black spiral tube trim that would look great, although I foresee I"m going to need a hundred yards of it... I'm going to try fabric.com and some of the other online stores to get an idea if I can lower the price a bit... And I am think seriously about what sort of hat she would have. My mom agreed to give me everything she has about her, but the woman (her grandmother -whom she knows only as "Bubbe"--the Jewish word for grandma) died when my mom was only three. Yours in costuming, Lisa A. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 08:25:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45CPbMx032689 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 08:25:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45CP5mB029694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 06:25:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45COvJd010779; Wed, 5 May 2004 06:24:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from joplin.siteprotect.com (joplin.siteprotect.com [64.26.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45COtJd010750 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 06:24:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from genteelarts (user52.net1136.oh.sprint-hsd.net [69.68.45.52]) by joplin.siteprotect.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i45COro12968 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 07:24:53 -0500 From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] CW middleclass Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:24:44 -0400 Organization: Genteel Arts Message-ID: <000001c4329b$f46a66b0$0500a8c0@genteelarts> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i45COtJd010750 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AnnBWass wrote: "My dissertation research was on the transition from natural to synthetic dyes in the mid 19th century. (snip) So somber shades would not be incorrect, but certainly weren't the only alternative." That was the point I was attempting to make but you said it much better than I did. :-) (I shouldn't try to answer posts when I don't have sufficient time to do it properly.) "But you can see swatches in dye books, and I have seen a photo of a dress in a collection that still retains its brilliant purple color." Over the years we've had several hundred different original dresses from the mid-19th century on display at the conference. The vivid colors and color combinations in several of them is amazing, and quite surprising to many of the participants who have not had the opportunity to view original garments and/or have not researched the technology of dyes, dyeing, fabric printing, etc. This is an area I'm especially interested in; it is fascinating to discover the diversity of patterns and colors they were capable of producing. "cschmitt@genteelarts.com writes: If you were married you wore more somber colors. Dark blue, dark green, grey, black." Knowing how some Internet posts can circulate in the Ethernet for eons and come back to haunt you, I just wanted to clarify that this was NOT my statement, but an excerpt from the original post. :-) "One thing that fascinated me was that, from looking at Godey's, you wouldn't really know there was a war going on. Contrast this to women's magazines from World War II, where every man pictured was in uniform and there were all kinds of articles about how one could support the effort on the home front." Isn't that fascinating? I have some sources at home that explain why Mrs. Hale and the publisher chose to take that venue. I won't attempt to quote them from memory, but IIRC it was primarily a business decision. I'll have to look them up again. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 3-6, 2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 08:46:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45Ck2Mx000325 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 08:46:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45CjWmB000671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 06:45:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45CjPJd019849; Wed, 5 May 2004 06:45:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.mx.voyager.net (mail1.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45CjOJd019819 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 06:45:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mdcarey@compuserve.com) Received: from u3d3u0 (d220.as0.cntn.oh.voyager.net [216.196.3.221]) by mail1.mx.voyager.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 089C57F097 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 08:45:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "M+D: Mary and Doug Piero Carey" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:44:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] colleges for history and construction Priority: normal In-reply-to: <200405041505.i44F5UGk075080@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Message-Id: <20040505124521.089C57F097@mail1.mx.voyager.net> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You might try Kent State University, Kent, Ohio. 2nd largest public university in the state, monster library, pretty campus, amazing public transport system, good fashion history museum, not too far from the monster libraries & museums in Cleveland, lots of living history opportunities in the region, and a well-established S.C.A. group, Gwyntarian. Also, more summer stock, little theatre & assorted pro drama groups in Northeast Ohio than you could shake a stick at. Of course, you've gotta deal with the, umm... shall we say, variable, N.E. Ohio weather. here's one of the urls: http://www.fashionschool.kent.edu/majors.htm Good luck to her! Mary Piero Carey _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 09:29:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45DTjMx000715 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 09:29:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45DRjmB003377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 07:27:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45DRfJd041701; Wed, 5 May 2004 07:27:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scc074.its.state.nc.us (scc074.its.state.nc.us [207.4.22.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45DRdJd041602 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 07:27:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Ellen.Dappert@ncmail.net) Received: from scc074.its.state.nc.us (127.0.0.1) by scc074.its.state.nc.us (6.5.029) id 401CD583003FBF9F for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 5 May 2004 09:27:31 -0400 Received: from ncmail.net (207.4.90.6) by scc074.its.state.nc.us (6.5.029) id 401CD580003EA00E for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 5 May 2004 09:27:30 -0400 Message-ID: <4098EBE7.21DE329F@ncmail.net> Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 09:28:07 -0400 From: Ellen Dappert Organization: NC-DJJDP / District 26 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200405051246.i45CkAJe020185@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] CW stays/corsets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And whiile we're on the topic of stays and corsets... The mid-19 century foundation undergarments that I have seen ( and I admit this sample is small) were constructed with a face fabric and a lining fabric, making a "sandwich") this is the construction method used by Past Patterns. The recent Simplicity CW patterns are constructed with a face fabric, boning in casings, no linings My question to those who study the historically authentic vs. those who are oriented to the theatrical aspect. Is there a difference in usage in the 19th century? Is one method MORE authentic? If one type or the other found more frequently? If you were a 1850-60's woman would you have chosen on over the other? Would you have looked at one type and thought " What is going on here?" Please excuse wrong terminology, teach me. I learn so much from you all. Mia in Charlotte, NC _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 09:37:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45DbxMx000783 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 09:37:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45DbSmB004022 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 07:37:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45DbRJd046952; Wed, 5 May 2004 07:37:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav50.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45DbRJd046819 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 07:37:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 5 May 2004 06:37:19 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.19 by bay1-dav50.adinternal.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 05 May 2004 13:37:19 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.19] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200405051246.i45CkAJe020185@net.indra.com> <4098EBE7.21DE329F@ncmail.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW stays/corsets Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:37:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 May 2004 13:37:19.0836 (UTC) FILETIME=[1699E1C0:01C432A6] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Laughing Moon's pattern also uses the same sandwich method. I'm unsure about where my Simplicity corset pattern is at the moment (I'll dig it out later today if I have to) but I was fairly sure it had three layers like most other patterns. I do know Farthingales has an article on http://www.farthingales.on.ca/simplicity_9769.php ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ellen Dappert" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 9:28 AM Subject: [h-cost] CW stays/corsets > And whiile we're on the topic of stays and corsets... > > The mid-19 century foundation undergarments that I have seen ( and I admit this sample is small) were constructed with a face fabric > and a lining fabric, making a "sandwich") this is the construction method used by Past Patterns. > > The recent Simplicity CW patterns are constructed with a face fabric, boning in casings, no linings > > My question to those who study the historically authentic vs. those who are oriented to the theatrical aspect. Is there a > difference in usage in the 19th century? Is one method MORE authentic? If one type or the other found more frequently? If you > were a 1850-60's woman would you have chosen on over the other? Would you have looked at one type and thought " What is going on > here?" > > Please excuse wrong terminology, teach me. I learn so much from you all. > > Mia in Charlotte, NC _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 11:15:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45FFLMx001810 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 11:15:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45FDEmB012545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 09:13:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45FDBJd011342; Wed, 5 May 2004 09:13:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts7.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.165]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45FD9Jd011258 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 09:13:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.70.5.23]) by simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040505151303.FCMO11651.simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 11:13:03 -0400 Message-ID: <01ec01c432b3$87544c40$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 10:51:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1660's Gown Question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all! I was looking at these pictures again, and I'm wondering about the shoulders of the bodices; they look so snug that you shouldn't be able to raise your arms much past chest height. Would this be the case? These two pictures would suggest so: http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/1660_6.shtml http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/1660_7.shtml In this picture though, it *almost* looks as if the shoulder/sleeve cap is similar to those off the shoulder dresses in the late (19)80's early 90's, the top of the sleeve is made to look like part of the bodice, and more or less is 'hinged' to the top of a very shallow armscye. This would let you raise your arms over your head to a much greater degree. http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/1660_2.shtml Any thoughts, notions? Sheridan =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 11:25:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45FPhMx001883 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 11:25:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45FNWmB013715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 09:23:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45FNVJd019429; Wed, 5 May 2004 09:23:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45FNRJd019360 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 09:23:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A6EDEC2007C; Wed, 05 May 2004 11:23:25 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.106]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 5 May 2004 11:23:24 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c432b5$c4a2f5e0$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 11:29:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 May 2004 15:23:25.0302 (UTC) FILETIME=[E8B6E960:01C432B4] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i45FPhMx001883 Status: RO I have a hankering to do the chatelaine pin cushion found in the back of "Fitting and Proper". I have a nice old brass cafe curtain ring with eye that I think will make a good collar. But I cannot seem to find directions for Queen's stitch needlepoint. Any one have a citation or can describe how this stitch is done? Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 12:05:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45G5DMx002147 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 12:05:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45G3DmB018240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 10:03:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45G2xJd050858; Wed, 5 May 2004 10:02:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45G2gJd050687 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 10:02:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i45G2fT20893.; Wed, 5 May 2004 17:02:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 05 May 2004 17:02:41 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 17:02:36 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1660's Gown Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Pity Nicole doesn't seem to be on the list any more. However, one of the dancers our music group was playing for last weekend was wearing a dress similar to the one Bjarne made for Nicole, and she could apparently move her arms normally. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca 05/05/2004 15:51:02 >>> Greetings all! I was looking at these pictures again, and I'm wondering about the shoulders of the bodices; they look so snug that you shouldn't be able to raise your arms much past chest height. Would this be the case? These two pictures would suggest so: http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/1660_6.shtml http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/1660_7.shtml In this picture though, it *almost* looks as if the shoulder/sleeve cap is similar to those off the shoulder dresses in the late (19)80's early 90's, the top of the sleeve is made to look like part of the bodice, and more or less is 'hinged' to the top of a very shallow armscye. This would let you raise your arms over your head to a much greater degree. http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/1660_2.shtml Any thoughts, notions? Sheridan =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 12:28:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45GSEMx002285 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 12:28:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45GRCmB020783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 10:27:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45GQ7Jd068785; Wed, 5 May 2004 10:26:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45GPbJe068500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 10:25:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i45GYprp002495 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 12:34:57 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040505092109.00b6aa98@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 09:25:28 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: RE: [h-cost] CW middleclass In-Reply-To: <000001c4329b$f46a66b0$0500a8c0@genteelarts> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have never been interested in the Civil War Era because my impression of it is that the women in the photos were always stern-faced (because of having to hold a position for a long time while the photograph was being taken), the posing tended to be ram-rod straight, and the colors were so *drab*. To me, this was not an era of happiness, but of stern, sober, drab, depressing garments. I know that people were happy then, as people are in any era, but the photos don't seem to reveal it. I'm very pleased to see that bright colors *were* used. Hooray! Katie At 08:24 AM 5/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: >AnnBWass wrote: > >"My dissertation research was on the transition from natural to synthetic >dyes in the mid 19th century. (snip) So somber shades would not be >incorrect, but certainly weren't the only alternative." > >That was the point I was attempting to make but you said it much better than >I did. :-) (I shouldn't try to answer posts when I don't have sufficient >time to do it properly.) > >"But you can see swatches in dye books, and I have seen a photo of a dress >in a collection that still retains its brilliant purple color." > >Over the years we've had several hundred different original dresses from the >mid-19th century on display at the conference. The vivid colors and color >combinations in several of them is amazing, and quite surprising to many of >the participants who have not had the opportunity to view original garments >and/or have not researched the technology of dyes, dyeing, fabric printing, >etc. This is an area I'm especially interested in; it is fascinating to >discover the diversity of patterns and colors they were capable of >producing. > >"cschmitt@genteelarts.com writes: If you were married you wore more somber >colors. Dark blue, dark green, grey, black." > >Knowing how some Internet posts can circulate in the Ethernet for eons and >come back to haunt you, I just wanted to clarify that this was NOT my >statement, but an excerpt from the original post. :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 13:14:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45HEHMx002530 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 13:14:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45FJsmB013360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 09:19:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45FJqJd016567; Wed, 5 May 2004 09:19:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45FJEJd016082 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 09:19:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bed3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.211]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B94D947FE29 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 17:19:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000501c432b4$52e86300$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <01ec01c432b3$87544c40$cb6afea9@sherry> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1660's Gown Question Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 17:19:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Sheridan, Yes this is the case, no scratching of your head in those cases. The arms was forced down by the heavily boned bodice foundation under the bodice silk. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 4:51 PM Subject: [h-cost] 1660's Gown Question > Greetings all! > > I was looking at these pictures again, and I'm wondering about the shoulders > of the bodices; they look so snug that you shouldn't be able to raise your > arms much past chest height. Would this be the case? These two pictures > would suggest so: > > http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/1660_6.shtml > > http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/1660_7.shtml > > In this picture though, it *almost* looks as if the shoulder/sleeve cap is > similar to those off the shoulder dresses in the late (19)80's early 90's, > the top of the sleeve is made to look like part of the bodice, and more or > less is 'hinged' to the top of a very shallow armscye. This would let you > raise your arms over your head to a much greater degree. > > http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/1660_2.shtml > > Any thoughts, notions? > > Sheridan > > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 13:35:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45HZ2Mx002627 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 13:35:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45HX8mB028296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 11:33:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45HX1Jd023471; Wed, 5 May 2004 11:33:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45HWwJd023375 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 11:32:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.66.3ff5898e (16335) for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 13:32:41 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <66.3ff5898e.2dca7f39@aol.com> Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 13:32:41 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5016 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/5/2004 12:28:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Katie@katiesorchids.com writes: the colors were so *drab*. One thing you should know about the early forms of photograph--including Daguerreotypes and similar forms, is that they did not "read" reds or yellows well, so these end up looking very dark or black on the image. For example, a gray uniform with yellow stripes will look like it has black stripes. A bright red dress may look black, too. Have you noticed sometimes the odd looking blotches on a woman's cheeks? She may have had very rosy cheeks that again photograph dark. So don't think that, just because the dress looks dark in the photograph, it really was. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 13:43:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45Hh7Mx002670 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 13:43:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45HevmB029068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 11:40:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45HetJd032420; Wed, 5 May 2004 11:40:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45HeoJd032288 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 11:40:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.142.28a0ee00 (16633) for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 13:40:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <142.28a0ee00.2dca8111@aol.com> Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 13:40:33 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/5/04 11:28:34 AM Central Daylight Time, Katie@katiesorchids.com writes: To me, this was not an era of happiness, but of stern, sober, drab, depressing garments. I know that people were happy then, as people are in any era, but the photos don't seem to reveal it. I'm very pleased to see that bright colors *were* used. Hooray! Absolutely! For the best idea of just *how* colorful clothing was, look at extant pieces in museums, books or on the internet. Not only did they use bright colors extensively, they put combinations of them together that are startling to us today, but are absolutely gorgeous. -Tiffany Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 14:20:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45IKmMx002970 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 14:20:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45IJsmB003393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 12:19:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45IJpJd063249; Wed, 5 May 2004 12:19:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i45IJmJd063194 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 12:19:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2004 18:19:47 -0000 Message-ID: <015401c432cd$8eef04d0$91e67643@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006b01c42fc5$31d37160$0201a8c0@kimathlon><200405020205.34249.cathy@thyrsus.com><000d01c4303d$81151f80$805183d1@rmitchellras><013b01c43075$07a75450$91e67643@lazear1> <002101c43082$36683fe0$675183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hairstyles through the ages? Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 11:19:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Kathleen, you are a doll. I'm adding it to my search list. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hairstyles through the ages? > >From my 'theatrical library', "Fashions in Hair", the first five thousand > years; Peter Owen. London. Published 1965, Peter Owen Limited > C Richard Corson, 1965 > Wonderful book! Drawings are not great, but I love chasing down the > original drawings and illustrations that have been redrawn for the book. The > Biblio includes Museums, books and periodicals for documentation. My > complete copy is almost 700 pages. > Kathleen > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 2:40 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hairstyles through the ages? > > > > Can you provide the name of the book by Courson? Is it available or out of > > print? > > > > angela > > +++++ > > Angela F. Lazear > > Cabbage Rose Costumes > > www.cabbagerosecostumes.com > > Theatrical Costume Design > > > > "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: > > be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, > > and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: > > be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." > > W. Shakespeare > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > > > > > (At least this seems to be what my photos show. Also, the Courson book > of > > > hair styles through the ages shows this development, too.) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 15:27:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45JRSMx003469 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 15:27:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45JP5mB010463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 13:25:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45JOuJd013801; Wed, 5 May 2004 13:24:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45JOiJd013657 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 13:24:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AF7BDAF0082; Wed, 05 May 2004 15:24:43 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.109]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 5 May 2004 15:24:42 -0400 Message-ID: <001901c432d7$7a61be40$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006b01c42fc5$31d37160$0201a8c0@kimathlon><200405020205.34249.cathy@thyrsus.com><000d01c4303d$81151f80$805183d1@rmitchellras><013b01c43075$07a75450$91e67643@lazear1><002101c43082$36683fe0$675183d1@rmitchellras> <015401c432cd$8eef04d0$91e67643@lazear1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hairstyles through the ages? Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 15:30:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 May 2004 19:24:43.0008 (UTC) FILETIME=[9E198800:01C432D6] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You are welcome! kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:19 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hairstyles through the ages? > Thanks Kathleen, you are a doll. I'm adding it to my search list. > > angela > +++++ > Angela F. Lazear > Cabbage Rose Costumes > www.cabbagerosecostumes.com > Theatrical Costume Design > > "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: > be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, > and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: > be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." > W. Shakespeare > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 1:15 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hairstyles through the ages? > > > > >From my 'theatrical library', "Fashions in Hair", the first five thousand > > years; Peter Owen. London. Published 1965, Peter Owen Limited > > C Richard Corson, 1965 > > Wonderful book! Drawings are not great, but I love chasing down the > > original drawings and illustrations that have been redrawn for the book. > The > > Biblio includes Museums, books and periodicals for documentation. My > > complete copy is almost 700 pages. > > Kathleen > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 2:40 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hairstyles through the ages? > > > > > > > Can you provide the name of the book by Courson? Is it available or out > of > > > print? > > > > > > angela > > > +++++ > > > Angela F. Lazear > > > Cabbage Rose Costumes > > > www.cabbagerosecostumes.com > > > Theatrical Costume Design > > > > > > "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: > > > be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, > > > and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: > > > be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." > > > W. Shakespeare > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > > > > > > > (At least this seems to be what my photos show. Also, the Courson > book > > of > > > > hair styles through the ages shows this development, too.) > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 15:50:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45JoPMx003598 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 15:50:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45JmdmB012757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 13:48:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45JmaJd031707; Wed, 5 May 2004 13:48:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smapp01.siteprotect.com (smapp01.siteprotect.com [66.113.136.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45JmXJd031647 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 13:48:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from smapp01.siteprotect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smapp01.siteprotect.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i45JmPa23516 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 14:48:25 -0500 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 14:48:25 -0500 Message-Id: <200405051948.i45JmPa23516@smapp01.siteprotect.com> From: cschmitt@genteelarts.com To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW photography and fabric colors X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AnnBWass wrote: "One thing you should know about the early forms of photograph--including Daguerreotypes and similar forms, is that they did not "read" reds or yellows well, so these end up looking very dark or black on the image. (snip) So don't think that, just because the dress looks dark in the photograph, it really was." Several years ago The Citizens' Companion published a wonderful article by Virginia Mescher on wet plate photography and how various colors photographed. The article included images of plain and patterned fabrics in various shades. Each fabric was photographed twice; once using both modern equipment and processing, the second time using period techniques. The results were amazing. As you mentioned, bright yellow photographed darker than black, light blue was whiter than white. There is a similar example using period and contemporary photographs of a color wheel on-line; but I don't have the link at this location. Several years ago I was told by a very new and earnest participant that the only colors used in mid-19th century fabrics were "black, white and shades of gray". When I asked for her source for that information, she indignantly told me to "just look at period photographs; those are the only colors you see". She was absolutely dumbfounded when I gently pointed out that color photography had not yet been invented. :-)) Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 3-6, 2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 16:22:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45KMGMx003810 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 16:22:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45KKImB016071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 14:20:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45KKCJd056928; Wed, 5 May 2004 14:20:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smapp01.siteprotect.com (smapp01.siteprotect.com [66.113.136.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45KK9Jd056880 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 14:20:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from smapp01.siteprotect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smapp01.siteprotect.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i45KK8a28078 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 15:20:08 -0500 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 15:20:08 -0500 Message-Id: <200405052020.i45KK8a28078@smapp01.siteprotect.com> From: cschmitt@genteelarts.com To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] CW stays/corsets X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mia, Unfortunately, *documented* mid-19th century corsets are much harder to find than foundation garments from other decades, so my sampling is not very large either - about 10-12 garments. Of those I've looked at, two were made from a single layer of fabric with separate casings for the stays. The others were all constructed with a double layer of fabric. I've found written documentation for both construction methods, and believe that either construction technique is appropriate. I would have to do a lot more study (more garments, manufacturing and sales figures, diaries, etc.) before I could make a determination whether one style was more common than the other. Speaking from experience, I've found that reproduction corsets made from two layers of fabric are much sturdier and supportive than those made from single layers. Reproduction corsets made with a single layer of fabric are lighter in weight, but I've found they don't wear as well and definitely are not designed for a generous figure. :-) The one thing I have noticed in two-layer corsets is a different construction method than that found on most contemporary patterns. Most of the patterns direct you to sew the pieces together making a complete outer layer and a complete inner layer, join the two layers together around the outside edges, then sew casings for the bones. This is ok if all of your sections are exactly the same size and all of your seams line up exactly. But many seamstresses aren't that precise with their sewing, and the finished product has bumps and ripples where the layers are not aligned. Those bumps and ripples can be really uncomfortable for some wearers. The period double-layer corsets I've seen to date use a different technique: the corset is constructed in sections from center front to center back and both layers are attached at each seam. As each section is attached, a casing(s) is stitched for the boning. I use this technique in my corset classes, and it works very well. No bumps, no ripples, very sturdy double stitched seams, quick and easy bone casings. Again, my sampling isn't large enough to state one construction method was more common than the other, but I much prefer the second method. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 3-6, 2005 Mia wrote: The mid-19 century foundation undergarments that I have seen (and I admit this sample is small) were constructed with a face fabric and a lining fabric, making a "sandwich") this is the construction method used by Past Patterns. The recent Simplicity CW patterns are constructed with a face fabric, boning in casings, no linings My question to those who study the historically authentic vs. those who are oriented to the theatrical aspect. Is there a difference in usage in the 19th century? Is one method MORE authentic? If one type or the other found more frequently? If you were a 1850-60's woman would you have chosen on over the other? Would you have looked at one type and thought "What is going on here?" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 16:55:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45KtWMx003964 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 16:55:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45KrdmB019630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 14:53:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45KrLJd083531; Wed, 5 May 2004 14:53:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45KrIJe083493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 14:53:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06952326pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.140.8.214]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF6B715C62 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 13:53:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] CW stays/corsets Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 17:04:05 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <200405052020.i45KK8a28078@smapp01.siteprotect.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not quite picturing how you construct your corsets. Do you have a link to someplace I can see how you do the seams to join together your sections? -Megan Carolann Schmitt wrote: The period double-layer corsets I've seen to date use a different technique: the corset is constructed in sections from center front to center back and both layers are attached at each seam. As each section is attached, a casing(s) is stitched for the boning. I use this technique in my corset classes, and it works very well. No bumps, no ripples, very sturdy double stitched seams, quick and easy bone casings. Again, my sampling isn't large enough to state one construction method was more common than the other, but I much prefer the second method. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 17:19:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45LJ5Mx004085 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 17:19:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45LI6mB022283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 15:18:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45LI3Jd002158; Wed, 5 May 2004 15:18:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45LHvJd002110 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 15:17:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AA0015EC007C; Wed, 05 May 2004 17:17:52 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.102]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 5 May 2004 17:17:51 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c432e7$494661c0$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian occupational costume books Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 17:24:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 May 2004 21:17:52.0448 (UTC) FILETIME=[6CEBDC00:01C432E6] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here are the ones I have on my shelf: Working Class Costume 1818; Wm J. White; V&A, 1971 Police Uniform and Equipment; A.A.Clark;Shire Pub Ltd The Victorian Domestic Servant; Trevor May; Shire Album, 1998 Working Dress,A History of Occupational Costume: Diana de Marly; B.T. Batsford Ltd, London1986 Trades and Occupations, archive selected and arranged by Belanger Grafton; Dover1990 Is there a particular costume you are looking for? By the way, except for the 'Dover", these were all gleaned from Books on Cloth as offered by Fred Struthers Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia" To: "Historic Costume list" Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:14 PM Subject: [h-cost] Victorian occupational costume books > Anyone know of any good books on either English or American historical > occupational dress? > > Sylrog > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 17:37:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45LbXMx004201 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 17:37:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45LasmB024176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 15:36:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45LapJd016216; Wed, 5 May 2004 15:36:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45LamJd016180 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 15:36:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-87-66.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.87.66]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i45LagYV026435 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 16:36:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040505141921.02246150@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 14:27:55 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch In-Reply-To: <001701c432b5$c4a2f5e0$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I have a hankering to do the chatelaine pin cushion found in the back of >"Fitting and Proper". I have a nice old brass cafe curtain ring with eye >that I think will make a good collar. But I cannot seem to find directions >for Queen's stitch needlepoint. Any one have a citation or can describe how >this stitch is done? It's in the back of that little embroidery book of 18th and early 19th century work from the Wintherthur collection. I'm terrible at names, so I don't know if that's the book you have or not. This book has photos of real stuff in the front, and several embroidery stitches in the back, and (without being able to find my copy, because it's buried) I'm sure it's in there. Failing that, it's in a book called Pincushions (also buried). Queen's stitch is done in a square. First find the middle hole in the square. Half the stitches go thru the middle hole and fan out to one of the holes on one side, and the other half of the stitches also go thru the middle hole and fan out to one of the holes on the opposite side. This pulls a big hole in the middle, and that's the hole you see in the photos of things using this stitch. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 19:42:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45NgAMx005244 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 19:42:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45Nd2mB005069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 17:39:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45NclJd004837; Wed, 5 May 2004 17:38:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45NcjJd004815 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 17:38:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from mail.ntw.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i45NbfN23454 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 17:37:41 -0600 Received: from 206.124.3.104 (SquirrelMail authenticated user sylvia) by mail.ntw.net with HTTP; Wed, 5 May 2004 17:37:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <49245.206.124.3.104.1083800261.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <001b01c432e7$494661c0$665183d1@rmitchellras> References: <001b01c432e7$494661c0$665183d1@rmitchellras> Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 17:37:41 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian occupational costume books From: sylvia@ntw.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Is there a particular costume you are looking for? Yes! I asked before but got no responses. I'm looking for pics of policemen uniforms, railroad signalmen and judges. American, circa 1890-1900. I did check Fred Struthers site, I thought, and came up with nothing. Sylrog By the way, except for > the 'Dover", these were all gleaned from Books on Cloth as offered by Fred > Struthers > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sylvia" > To: "Historic Costume list" > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:14 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Victorian occupational costume books > > >> Anyone know of any good books on either English or American historical >> occupational dress? >> >> Sylrog >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 19:42:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i45NgbMx005249 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 19:42:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45NfwmB005252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 17:41:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45NfnJd006420; Wed, 5 May 2004 17:41:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i45NfjJd006390 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 17:41:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from mail.ntw.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i45NeeN23728 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 17:40:40 -0600 Received: from 206.124.3.104 (SquirrelMail authenticated user sylvia) by mail.ntw.net with HTTP; Wed, 5 May 2004 17:40:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <49249.206.124.3.104.1083800440.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <001b01c432e7$494661c0$665183d1@rmitchellras> References: <001b01c432e7$494661c0$665183d1@rmitchellras> Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 17:40:40 -0600 (MDT) From: sylvia@ntw.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Scottish Victorian costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Now I'm researching Scottish Victorian costume too, also circa 1890-1900. Does anyone know how provalent the wearing of kilts would have been and who would have worn them? I've got both working class men (mill workers) who I'm sure wouldnt be wearing kilts and some noblemen that I'm not sure of. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 20:05:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4605WMx005364 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 20:05:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4603fmB006620 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 18:03:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4603eJd018265; Wed, 5 May 2004 18:03:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4603bJd018242 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 18:03:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A0D82EA10064; Wed, 05 May 2004 20:03:36 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.102]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 5 May 2004 20:03:35 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c432fe$7051af60$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.1.20040505141921.02246150@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:09:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 May 2004 00:03:36.0004 (UTC) FILETIME=[93BE1840:01C432FD] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think that I can do this. From the picture, I knew it means to do a 'daisy' but couldn't quite put it on a square, which is what my understanding of needlepoint is all about. Fitting and Proper is one of the Chester County, Pa. historical costume volumes, (for the record). I am always looking for hand projects when we are doing school tours for the Bradford House, 1782. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch > >I have a hankering to do the chatelaine pin cushion found in the back of > >"Fitting and Proper". I have a nice old brass cafe curtain ring with eye > >that I think will make a good collar. But I cannot seem to find directions > >for Queen's stitch needlepoint. Any one have a citation or can describe how > >this stitch is done? > > It's in the back of that little embroidery book of 18th and early 19th > century work from the Wintherthur collection. I'm terrible at names, so I > don't know if that's the book you have or not. This book has photos of > real stuff in the front, and several embroidery stitches in the back, and > (without being able to find my copy, because it's buried) I'm sure it's in > there. Failing that, it's in a book called Pincushions (also buried). > > Queen's stitch is done in a square. First find the middle hole in the > square. Half the stitches go thru the middle hole and fan out to one of > the holes on one side, and the other half of the stitches also go thru the > middle hole and fan out to one of the holes on the opposite side. This > pulls a big hole in the middle, and that's the hole you see in the photos > of things using this stitch. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 20:24:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i460OXMx005413 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 20:24:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i460NYmB008008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 18:23:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i460NVJd029218; Wed, 5 May 2004 18:23:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i460NSJd029176 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 18:23:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A57F2F2A0064; Wed, 05 May 2004 20:23:27 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.102]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 5 May 2004 20:23:27 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c43301$3692f100$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001b01c432e7$494661c0$665183d1@rmitchellras> <49245.206.124.3.104.1083800261.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian occupational costume books Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:29:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 May 2004 00:23:27.0507 (UTC) FILETIME=[59EF0630:01C43300] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, in looking at the Clark book(let), it may have some of what you are looking for. I also have on file a couple of pages of police taken from some magazine like Woman's Home Journal at the turn of the century. You might see if you could turn up some early 'films' from NY or Hollywood...even the Keystone Cops costumes are close enough, as the movie people were using real clothing and not costumes at that early time. The frock coat, belted was pretty much in use until after the first world war and the hat was domed like the British Bobby until rather late. The Dover volume might have some views of signalmen. The jacket was hip length; the style of cap was closer to the shape you might see on military officers in WW1. The 'Tevia" Russian cap (or Stalin) shows up as early as 1885. As other early train uniforms, the color would most likely be black. Buttons and other snazz would depend on the 'grade' of the Judges were pretty much in black robes while on the bench by this time. On the street, probably in a three piece (4-5 button) suit with a black bowler or top hat (city, or country). Or for what ever he thought would distinguish him most... Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian occupational costume books > > Is there a particular costume you are looking for? > > Yes! I asked before but got no responses. I'm looking for pics of > policemen uniforms, railroad signalmen and judges. American, circa > 1890-1900. > > I did check Fred Struthers site, I thought, and came up with nothing. > > > Sylrog > > > By the way, except for > > the 'Dover", these were all gleaned from Books on Cloth as offered by Fred > > Struthers > > Kathleen > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sylvia" > > To: "Historic Costume list" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:14 PM > > Subject: [h-cost] Victorian occupational costume books > > > > > >> Anyone know of any good books on either English or American historical > >> occupational dress? > >> > >> Sylrog > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 20:29:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i460TMMx005442 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 20:29:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i460SnmB008303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 18:28:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i460SlJd032037; Wed, 5 May 2004 18:28:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i460SiJd032005 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 18:28:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A6BB2F590064; Wed, 05 May 2004 20:28:43 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.102]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 5 May 2004 20:28:42 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c43301$f2c076e0$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001b01c432e7$494661c0$665183d1@rmitchellras> <49249.206.124.3.104.1083800440.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Scottish Victorian costume Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:34:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 May 2004 00:28:43.0255 (UTC) FILETIME=[16225870:01C43301] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Working clothes were pretty much a standard, country of origin not withstanding. Well worn trousers of jean or cord, work shirts of dirty white or stripes or blue chambray. Probably a wool cap of some sort or a bowler if they thought well of themselves. I think that wearing a plaid was reserved for festive occasions and probably only by the 'swells'. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:40 PM Subject: [h-cost] Scottish Victorian costume > Now I'm researching Scottish Victorian costume too, also circa 1890-1900. > Does anyone know how provalent the wearing of kilts would have been and > who would have worn them? I've got both working class men (mill workers) > who I'm sure wouldnt be wearing kilts and some noblemen that I'm not sure > of. > > Sylrog > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 20:43:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i460hDMx005499 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 20:43:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i460gZmB009188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 18:42:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i460gVJd039421; Wed, 5 May 2004 18:42:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i460gRJd039353 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 18:42:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.181] (pm5-181.eos.net [205.133.149.181]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i460gNkG020317 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 20:42:23 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 20:41:15 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200405060029.i460T1Je032163@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Civil War era photos X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's not only a Civil War era thing. Black and white film costumers had to make interesting costume choices. Jezebel's famous red dress in "Jezebel" was actually black -- red did not photograph dramatically enough. And I red once that a black and white televised ballet used light blue costumes for its sylphs, because they came across much whiter than white costumes. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 20:54:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i460sXMx005527 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 20:54:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i460qcmB009886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 18:52:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i460qZJd044444; Wed, 5 May 2004 18:52:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from regulus2.blazenet.net (regulus2.blazenet.net [24.104.0.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i460qXJd044335 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 18:52:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from homesewer@blazenet.net) Received: from homesewer (ip89.39.blca.blazenet.net [24.104.39.89]) by regulus2.blazenet.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i460nfr08598 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 20:49:41 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c43304$60490360$59276818@blazenet.net> From: "linda sterner" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:52:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] kilts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i460sXMx005527 Status: RO I have a Scottish bloodline (Kennedy). At one of our family reunions we were told that even thought this line is from Scotland...they did not wear kilts. So, not all Scotsmen wore the kilts, but I do not know who did or who didn`t. I believe that they said that it depended on the area where they lived. Linda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 21:25:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i461PxMx005660 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 21:25:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i461PQmB011825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 19:25:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i461POJd061772; Wed, 5 May 2004 19:25:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i461PNJd061759 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 19:25:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id A39F35CC139; Wed, 5 May 2004 21:25:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0134.floodcity.net [198.93.211.134]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 733C55CC077 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 21:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <409993B2.A2539A5B@floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 21:24:02 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass References: <200405041626.i44GQCGi034996@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO timandterese wrote: > > > > A question was posed about what a middle class woman would wear in the CW > and near post CW era. I am currently working on a dress from the 1850's . > During the research I have done, and talking with re-enactors that are very > involved with an organization from that time period. > > > > If you were married you wore more somber colors. Dark blue, dark green, > grey, black. High neck, long sleeves, with under sleeves. You would > probably be wearing some version of mourning colors as you most likely knew > someone killed in the CW. > > > > If you were in a camp dress, you probably didn't use hoops. Most likely a > couple petticoats. Probably not a corset, but a stay. > > Ditto on the stay if you were pregnant. If you were dressed to go to town, > or a social function, you did wear a corset. > > > > Younger women that were not married wore much lighter colors. And women of > improper virture wore red. > > Hope this helps. > > Terese in Michigan Thanks Terese, it does help, in a way. My favorite color is a dark browny red. sort of like brick. I was planning to make a dress from a fabric I bought in a color like that, with a small 1/8th inch bird track repeated every inch or so. Oh well, it isn't for reenactment, just personal enjoyment so maybe I still will. I plan to wear it to church maybe once a month or so, and to our local lost arts festival, "Mountain Craft Days" in September. I've never tried the stays or corsets, sort of afraid of the expense and definitely can't buy one off the shelf as it were, my shape is to odd. Maybe I'll try to make one after I get the dress done. My friend who grew up going on wagon trains in the seventies and eighties always wears her costumes with modern foundations. I surely am concerned with not being too hot, since my weight causes me to feel the heat quite a bit. I liked what I read about stays, maybe I will try to duplcate them rather than corsets since, being heavy, I am concerned with corsets going weird on me with the modern plastic stays in them. I'm afraid my body is liable to bend the plastic in the wrong direction or that I will be too uncomfortable to sit through church with them. Oh well, no sense dumping all my mental flutter on you. I'll cogitate on it. LOL thanks, Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 21:43:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i461hWMx005715 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 21:43:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i461glmB012892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 19:42:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i461giJd070183; Wed, 5 May 2004 19:42:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m19.mx.aol.com (imo-m19.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i461gfJd070119 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 19:42:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1cd.2021c538 (4584) for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 21:42:30 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1cd.2021c538.2dcaf206@aol.com> Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 21:42:30 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Civil War era photos To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5016 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/5/2004 8:44:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: light blue costumes for its sylphs, because they came across much whiter than white costumes. I thought they used light blue because white was TOO white, but anyway, same principle. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 21:57:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i461vaMx005780 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 21:57:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i461tomB013699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 19:55:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i461tkJd076298; Wed, 5 May 2004 19:55:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i461thJd076261 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 19:55:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id CB9D85CC09D; Wed, 5 May 2004 21:55:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0134.floodcity.net [198.93.211.134]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BEFC5CC00E for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 21:55:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40999A98.B4159296@floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 21:53:28 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Conservative dress of the Victorian era. References: <20040503.074640.-503341.1.lisa58@juno.com><001c01c43132$4580a0c0$805183d1@rmitchellras><4096CB05.3877859A@floodcity.net><003f01c43177$d0cd4800$7c5183d1@rmitchellras> <4097AE22.84AD2F0B@floodcity.net> <001f01c431f6$01b87c40$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO that's kinda what I thought. what about hoops, would they have been more for parties or very fashionable women? or were there different sizes, depending on how conservative or how fashionable you were? I saw a pattern in which the size ranged from 100 inches circumference to maybe 150, I don't remember now, depending on the size of the person. but I can't visualize how big they would be. I'm trying to decide if I could use a small hoop at church without embarrassing myself since I understand they are cooler than petticoats but harder to handle. I don't know where to find the dover prints, but I will definitely look for the book through interlibrary loan. Thanks, Kitty Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > That was my first take, re conservative Christian. A two piece dress of > jacket and skirt that is not ostentatious in either color or ornamentation. > Fran Grimbals book of Reconstruction Era Patterns gives lots of > possibilities. Pick your decade or portion thereof and see what you like. I > have a lot of photos of this period and there are also some Dover reprints > that give a good overview, having been taken from magazines of the period. > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kitty Felton" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Re: Conservative dress of the Victorian era. > > > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > > > > > Kitty, I am not sure what you might mean by a religious person'. A nun?, > a > > > woman with a vocation(catholic or Protestant), a conservative > 'Christian', > > > Quaker, and etc. Referring to the pic., since she is in a traditional > pose > > > with a man, I would suggest they were a 'couple'. > > > Kathleen > > > > > > > > by a religious person, I meant a conservative christian. this doesn't > > necessarily mean she wouldn't have been a wife. my question relates to > > my search for what sort of garments I would wear if I were trying to > > dress not in a very fashionable style but in a more conservative way. > > while a dress like a wedding cake is pretty to look at, it just doesn't > > seem like something I would enjoy wearing. I would like to learn what > > conservative person of the CW or post CW era would wear. would she wear > > hoops? how large? I imagine a washer woman would not, but what would > > a middle class person wear? I like the look of the skirts swept to the > > back, but do not like the strange corsets of the turn of the century. > > is there a middle ground? > > > > Kitty > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 22:39:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i462dmMx005921 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 22:39:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i462d6mB016421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 20:39:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i462cvJd097624; Wed, 5 May 2004 20:38:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net (starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i462ctJd097615 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 20:38:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from camelothorse@earthlink.net) Received: from dialup-4.230.54.107.dial1.houston1.level3.net ([4.230.54.107] helo=camelot01) by starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BLYmk-0006PD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 May 2004 19:38:55 -0700 From: "Diane Maynard" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] CW middleclass Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 21:39:04 -0500 Organization: Camelot Horse Center MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <409993B2.A2539A5B@floodcity.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: AcQzCQQdJ66IpP9eTBO2T4AFL5TczAACIgyw Message-Id: X-ELNK-Trace: 7d3e56efc2551607917237dadff7bf594d2b10475b5711200498bbb441b35f77062436a6f8a3f86d1b043dbb8868137a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just some suggestions from the peanut gallery----- >I've never tried the stays or corsets, sort of afraid of the expense and definitely can't buy one off the shelf as it were, my shape is to odd. Maybe I'll try to make one after I get the dress done. < If you are going to try stays or corsets at all, you need to make them BEFORE you make your dress. They change your shape and the dress will have to change also. > My friend who grew up going on wagon trains in the seventies and eighties always wears her costumes with modern foundations. < Are you talking 1970's and 1980's ? This would just mean that she was doing trail rides that did not require that the participants were accurate. I have personally ridden on trail rides in full corset and side saddle with no problem. > I surely am concerned with not being too hot, since my weight causes me to feel the heat quite a bit. I liked what I read about stays, maybe I will try to duplcate them rather than corsets since, being heavy, I am concerned with corsets going weird on me with the modern plastic stays in them. I'm afraid my body is liable to bend the plastic in the wrong direction or that I will be too uncomfortable to sit through church with them.< I make my corsets in linen or/and 100% cotton for the heat factor. If you are worried about the plastic boning "going weird" on you then, contact Greenberg & Hammer (out of New York) and order steel stays. They are not expensive. I just did my niece's prom dress that had a steel boned bodice and ordered the steel stays from them. They were not only reasonable on price but, fast on the shipping. My two cents, Diane _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 23:05:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46354Mx005980 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 23:05:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4634UmB018241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 21:04:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4634OJd010763; Wed, 5 May 2004 21:04:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4634MJd010748 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 21:04:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A32F228732 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 22:04:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t3p426.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.221.172]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 68907C425 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 22:04:18 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1700's dress ? Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 22:04:34 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <009801c4324e$60533440$0202a8c0@hopperflop2> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kendra, Thank you. This is very helpful. I am looking at make this pattern for a costume party. Since authenticity is not a major fact (an attempt) I figure that I would make a little extra effort. As I said this isn't my era of interested and my time is limited that I can put in this dress. Thank you again. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 23:34:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i463YNMx006037 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 23:34:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i463XjmB020245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 21:33:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i463XeJd025039; Wed, 5 May 2004 21:33:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i463XbJd025012 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 21:33:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id B45A75CC0C5; Wed, 5 May 2004 23:33:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0134.floodcity.net [198.93.211.134]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4C225CC13E for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 23:33:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4099B1B8.359B24B9@floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 23:32:08 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass References: <200405041735.i44HZTa27604@smapp01.siteprotect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Carolann, I really appreciated the particular slant you placed on our conversation, but please, don't be to hard on Terese. for one thing, she started off saying she was almost as new as me, and besides, we WERE discussing a particular socio-economic class, as well as a particular philosophical bent, namely a middle class Conservative christian woman who while wanting to look nice, eschews anything flashy in favor of "modesty". in my understanding of Biblical modesty, this doesn't just include keeping what should be covered covered, but also, not drawing attention to the person through dress, hair, jewelry, voice or behavior. In discussing a married woman vs a single woman we are limiting ourselves to this person. MY question I guess, is what would have been considered unusual enough to have been Immodest according to this definition and what would have been modest. I began planning a dress for church about a year ago, but looking at all the patterns I was confused as to what I was going to do. My friend who got me interested in this was on the wagon trains so was used to wearing a loose fitting dress more along the lines of a prairie dress. she also likes western styles similar to square dancing dress, but long. I do to for that matter. however, when I began looking for a pattern for my dress, the major pattern books, (simp, Butterick and MCcalls) all seemed to be doing over the top titanic and Gone with the Wind styles which don't fit my ideas at all, and the baggy prairie styles which being big I don't really want either. SOOOO I am trying to find out what WOULD fit the look or persona I am looking to create. I am not actually going to do any reenacting or anything, I'm not trying to do a character, just make something that is suitable. something which is understated not flashy, well dressed but not immodest, pretty but not frilly or overdone in anyway. When I got to looking at that photo everyone was discussing last week, (resource) I began questioning if this is a style I should be considering to give me the look I want. Which is how we got HERE, LOL in the context of time, I find I really like the smooth front and bustled look (1889-90??) without the funny corsets of the actual 90s or the big sleeves, but as someone on one of these lists pointed out, I might not want an actual bustle since it could cause me to be unable to actually SIT on a pew. so I am also asking questions about what is appropriate for this woman we are discussing with this look in mind. would this woman have worn stays? (I'm 50 this year) would she have worn crinolines or hoops. how do I decide how big to make the hoops, what do I do about creating crinolines (tulle?) if this is the more appropriate, and if hoops are more appropriate, how do I make them modest (Scarlett's were NOT, in my estimation) and practical since church pews are not very spacious. any help you care to offer would be greatly appreciated. thanks again sharing your knowledge, Kitty Carolann wrote: > in hearing the documentation these folks used for some of their statements. "Myths" and "reenactorisms" like these have been perpetuated for decades without any solid research or documentation. > > <> > > There is no factual basis for this statement. There are literally hundreds of original garments documented to the age and marital status of the wearer that are made of brighter colors and patterns. Whether a dress has a high or low neckline, short or long sleeves, etc. depends much more on the overall style of the garment, the occasion for which it is worn, and the socio-economic class of the wearer than it does on marital status. > > <> > > Not everyone wore mourning, and not everyone followed mourning dictates. Again, socio-economic status, customs, and personal preferences would determine if, where or when someone chose to don mourning dress. > > <> > > This is so patently false it is outrageous. I suspect the underlying source for this statement has more to do with Hollywood than it does with an history. > > <> > > The term "camp dress" did not exist in the mid-19th century. It is an advertising term used by modern vendors to sell what is more properly called a "wash dress". Wash dresses may have been worn over petticoats when doing physical labor, but on most other occasions they were worn over a (properly-sized) crinoline. While stays may have been worn by some women (more likely older women who were used to and comfortable with their fit), corsets were the most common form of supportive undergarment. The number of women who had legitimate reasons for being in a military camp were infintesimal when compared to the overall female population. Of those that did have reason for being there, the vast majority of them dressed no differently from any other woman of the period. > > <> > There is evidence of the use of gestational (maternity) stays, primarily in the antebellum years, and they may have continued to be worn by some women. However, gestational corsets were also available. My research indicates corsets, including the gestational versions, were much more common than stays during this period. > > <> > > Research indicates that corsets were worn daily from morning to night for all occasions, not just for specific events. Going without one would be extremely uncomfortable and highly unusual. > > <> > > Period magazines have numerous articles on selecting flattering colors for women of all ages. Lighter colors are often recommended for younger women, but they are also suggested for mature women for certain occasions. Again, it depends on the circumstance, the occasion for wearing, and the color in question. > > <> > > Another myth with no historical basis. There are hundreds of primary source references (original garments, diaries, letters, journals, newspaper articles, etc.) that document perfectly respectable women wearing all shades of red. > > I've tried not to make this reply not sound too strident (mean, nasty, bitchy, etc.), but I don't think I've succeeded. :-) I've developed a very low tolerance for those folks who continue to perpetuate mis-statements, half-truths and absolute falsehoods to the detriment of those trying to learn more about costume of any period. When anyone (including me) makes a similar pronouncement in the future, I sincerely encourage you to (politely) ask for their source and/or documentation. And nothing beats doing your own research. :-) > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 5 23:46:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i463kCMx006078 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 23:46:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i463jJmB020951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 21:45:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i463jHJd030390; Wed, 5 May 2004 21:45:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i463jEJd030368 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 21:45:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.176] (p16.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.176]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i463i7N06264 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 21:44:07 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 21:26:26 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass From: Sylvia To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4099B1B8.359B24B9@floodcity.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would suggest not going with the 1860s and eliminate the full skirt/crinoline look. That look is not going to be very comfortable and you will have trouble moving around, much less sitting in a church pew. I would go for either a small bustle look which can be created just by draping, without the understructure, or the look from 1890 to 1900. You dont have to use the years when the leg-o-mutton sleeves were in style, if you dont want that. The early 1890s and the very late 1890s did not feature the huge sleeves. Sylrog > From: Kitty Felton > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 23:32:08 -0400 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass > > > > SOOOO I am trying to find out what WOULD fit the look or persona I am > looking to create. I am not actually going to do any reenacting or > anything, I'm not trying to do a character, just make something that is > suitable. something which is understated not flashy, well dressed but > not immodest, pretty but not frilly or overdone in anyway. > > When I got to looking at that photo everyone was discussing last week, > (resource) I began questioning if this is a style I should be > considering to give me the look I want. Which is how we got HERE, LOL > > in the context of time, I find I really like the smooth front and > bustled look (1889-90??) without the funny corsets of the actual 90s or > the big sleeves, but as someone on one of these lists pointed out, I > might not want an actual bustle since it could cause me to be unable to > actually SIT on a pew. so I am also asking questions about what is > appropriate for this woman we are discussing with this look in mind. > > would this woman have worn stays? (I'm 50 this year) would she have > worn crinolines or hoops. how do I decide how big to make the hoops, > what do I do about creating crinolines (tulle?) if this is the more > appropriate, and if hoops are more appropriate, how do I make them > modest (Scarlett's were NOT, in my estimation) and practical since > church pews are not very spacious. any help you care to offer would be > greatly appreciated. > > thanks again sharing your knowledge, Kitty > > Carolann wrote: >> > > > in hearing the documentation these folks used for some of their > statements. "Myths" and "reenactorisms" like these have been perpetuated > for decades without any solid research or documentation. >> >> <> grey, black. High neck, long sleeves, with under sleeves.>> >> >> There is no factual basis for this statement. There are literally hundreds of >> original garments documented to the age and marital status of the wearer that >> are made of brighter colors and patterns. Whether a dress has a high or low >> neckline, short or long sleeves, etc. depends much more on the overall style >> of the garment, the occasion for which it is worn, and the socio-economic >> class of the wearer than it does on marital status. >> >> <> likely knew someone killed in the CW.>> >> >> Not everyone wore mourning, and not everyone followed mourning dictates. >> Again, socio-economic status, customs, and personal preferences would >> determine if, where or when someone chose to don mourning dress. >> >> <> on your dresses. ( so I've heard) northern gals didn't have feathers if you >> were proper.>> >> >> This is so patently false it is outrageous. I suspect the underlying source >> for this statement has more to do with Hollywood than it does with an >> history. >> >> <> couple petticoats. Probably not a corset, but a stay.>> >> >> The term "camp dress" did not exist in the mid-19th century. It is an >> advertising term used by modern vendors to sell what is more properly called >> a "wash dress". Wash dresses may have been worn over petticoats when doing >> physical labor, but on most other occasions they were worn over a >> (properly-sized) crinoline. While stays may have been worn by some women >> (more likely older women who were used to and comfortable with their fit), >> corsets were the most common form of supportive undergarment. The number of >> women who had legitimate reasons for being in a military camp were >> infintesimal when compared to the overall female population. Of those that >> did have reason for being there, the vast majority of them dressed no >> differently from any other woman of the period. >> >> <> >> There is evidence of the use of gestational (maternity) stays, primarily in >> the antebellum years, and they may have continued to be worn by some women. >> However, gestational corsets were also available. My research indicates >> corsets, including the gestational versions, were much more common than stays >> during this period. >> >> <> corset.>> >> >> Research indicates that corsets were worn daily from morning to night for all >> occasions, not just for specific events. Going without one would be extremely >> uncomfortable and highly unusual. >> >> <> >> >> Period magazines have numerous articles on selecting flattering colors for >> women of all ages. Lighter colors are often recommended for younger women, >> but they are also suggested for mature women for certain occasions. Again, >> it depends on the circumstance, the occasion for wearing, and the color in >> question. >> >> <> >> >> Another myth with no historical basis. There are hundreds of primary source >> references (original garments, diaries, letters, journals, newspaper >> articles, etc.) that document perfectly respectable women wearing all shades >> of red. >> >> I've tried not to make this reply not sound too strident (mean, nasty, >> bitchy, etc.), but I don't think I've succeeded. :-) I've developed a very >> low tolerance for those folks who continue to perpetuate mis-statements, >> half-truths and absolute falsehoods to the detriment of those trying to learn >> more about costume of any period. When anyone (including me) makes a similar >> pronouncement in the future, I sincerely encourage you to (politely) ask for >> their source and/or documentation. And nothing beats doing your own >> research. :-) >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 00:05:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4645pMx006104 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 00:05:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4645FmB022165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 22:05:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4645CJd040354; Wed, 5 May 2004 22:05:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4645BJd040346 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 22:05:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9821A287B0 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 23:05:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t3p426.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.221.172]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 63453C425 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 23:05:00 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Trevelyon Miscellany Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 23:05:17 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20040504162440.4413.qmail@web60601.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO All I found was one page for a cap. Is there more? De -----Original Message----- Wow. I googled the Folger and there is really quite a bit on line, including embroidery patterns. Probably best to print out, as I suspect they will change the link when their exhibit changes. http://www.folger.edu/public/exhibit/current.asp Kay _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 00:31:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i464VYMx006203 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 00:31:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i464V1mB023622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 22:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i464UuJd052775; Wed, 5 May 2004 22:30:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i464UtJd052692 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 22:30:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.15d.3445e150 (4262) for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 00:30:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <15d.3445e150.2dcb1971@aol.com> Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 00:30:41 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/5/04 10:34:14 PM Central Daylight Time, basyefelton@floodcity.net writes: Hi Carolann, I really appreciated the particular slant you placed on our conversation, but please, don't be to hard on Terese. for one thing, she started off saying she was almost as new as me, and besides, we WERE discussing a particular socio-economic class, as well as a particular philosophical bent, namely a middle class Conservative christian woman who while wanting to look nice, eschews anything flashy in favor of "modesty". First I just wanted to say that I thought Carolann's post did an excellent job of covering exactly this question. Much of the information in Terese's post about what qualified as 19th century "flashy" was simply inaccurate, and I think Carolann did a great job of clearing that up. I don't think it was meant to be at all hard on Terese, but with all due respect, if you don't actually *know* what constitutes period accuracy - or if most of what you do know has come from movies or TV - it's probably best to let others answer a question like that, rather than put forth information that may lead people in the wrong direction. A conservative Christian woman from Boston, dressing nicely and modestly, could very easily have worn a deep red gown with feathers on her hat. I think what Carolann was trying to do was keep you from feeling like you're limited to gray silk from your nose to your toes, if you want an accurate presentation. I have to admit to a certain level of annoyance with many of the inaccurate ideas that have been put forth by Hollywood and then perpetuated throughout the reenacting communities as well; such as the idea of only *scarlet* women wearing red, etc. But it's not annoyance directed personally at Terese or any one person, it's just general frustration at a tidal wave that is difficult to turn back. Moving on: "when I began looking for a pattern for my dress, the major pattern books, (simp, Butterick and MCcalls) all seemed to be doing over the top titanic and Gone with the Wind styles which don't fit my ideas at all, and the baggy prairie styles which being big I don't really want either." Your instincts are already serving you extremely well. There are very few commercial type patterns from those companies, that are worth the paper they're printed on from an historical-accuracy standpoint. Try these sites and see if you can find something more in line with what you were picturing: http://www.lafnmoon.com/ http://www.pastpatterns.com/ http://www.alteryears.com/ http://www.patternsoftime.com "I find I really like the smooth front and bustled look (1889-90??)" There were actually two different bustle eras, named (imaginatively enough) the First Bustle Period (ca 1870-1875) and the Second Bustle Period (ca 1883-1891). Each had its own distinct characteristics, and you might find that one or the other suits the look that you are wanting better. Here's a great site with information on both: http://www.fashion-era.com/bustles.htm "would this woman have worn stays? " Almost definitely, stays or a corset. But, there were tons of variants on designs at the time, so you can play around and figure out what works best and is most comfortable for you. It may take you a couple of shots at it before you discover this; it did me. "would she have worn crinolines or hoops. how do I decide how big to make the hoops, what do I do about creating crinolines (tulle?)" If you're going for a bustle-era fashion, then you don't need to worry about crinoline or hoops. Crinolines started to go out by the end of the 1860's as the silhouette of women's clothing completely changed. You will need a bustle/skirt supporter of some sort (which can range anywhere from a pillow that you tie onto your waist that sits on your rear end, to a full 3/4 steel birdcage attached to your nether regions) and then petticoats with that, but the petticoats don't have to be voluminous or wide. If you decide to go with a bustle era fashion, definitely go through that fashion-era website thoroughly. It has tons of great information. Hope this helps some! -Tiffany Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 00:37:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i464bKMx006218 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 00:37:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i464ZYmB023887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 22:35:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i464ZWJd054824; Wed, 5 May 2004 22:35:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i464ZUJd054809 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 22:35:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a249.in-tch.com [66.62.107.49]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i464BoM12717 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 22:11:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4099C16D.9070906@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 22:39:09 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch References: <4.1.20040505141921.02246150@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.1.20040505141921.02246150@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Huh! The variety I know is kind of diamond shaped, done as a series of long stitches going from a point of origin on top, to a final point on the bottom. They're spread apart in the center of the diamond by a little series of back stitches (done one at a time, once for each long pass). Finicky and a pain in the behind to do, but nice textural effects when done in a clump.... I've seen it in a number of (modern) "embroidery encyclopedias." Dunno about online sources (maybe googling would get you one of the sites that hosts examples of different stitches) --she, who learned how to do this when making "strawberries" for a 17th c. band sampler..... Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >>I have a hankering to do the chatelaine pin cushion found in the back of >>"Fitting and Proper". I have a nice old brass cafe curtain ring with eye >>that I think will make a good collar. But I cannot seem to find directions >>for Queen's stitch needlepoint. Any one have a citation or can describe how >>this stitch is done? > > > It's in the back of that little embroidery book of 18th and early 19th > century work from the Wintherthur collection. I'm terrible at names, so I > don't know if that's the book you have or not. This book has photos of > real stuff in the front, and several embroidery stitches in the back, and > (without being able to find my copy, because it's buried) I'm sure it's in > there. Failing that, it's in a book called Pincushions (also buried). > > Queen's stitch is done in a square. First find the middle hole in the > square. Half the stitches go thru the middle hole and fan out to one of > the holes on one side, and the other half of the stitches also go thru the > middle hole and fan out to one of the holes on the opposite side. This > pulls a big hole in the middle, and that's the hole you see in the photos > of things using this stitch. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 00:41:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i464ffMx006226 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 00:41:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i464fAmB024123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 22:41:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i464f9Jd057257; Wed, 5 May 2004 22:41:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.dandy.net (smtp.dandy.net [66.159.110.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i464f7Je057220 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 22:41:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net ([209.128.250.54]) by smtp.dandy.net for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 6 May 2004 00:43:36 -0400 Message-ID: <4099C1DD.8050508@dandy.net> Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 00:41:01 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hose VS Tights References: <4097C325.12096.F88B1C0@localhost> In-Reply-To: <4097C325.12096.F88B1C0@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. I would like to take scholarly exception to the conjecture that joined hose were not in use prior to about 1493. I would like to refer to the paintings that give me this information. The earliest that I can recollect is the illo from the Hours of Catherine of Cleves from about 1430-1440, specifically the "preparation for the Crucifixion" which shows the workman in full though not very fitted hose. These hose are tied to the doublet with one set of points at the back, not two as it would be if they were two pieces. Another, by Geertgen Tot Sint Jans, the "Burning of the Bones of St. John" which is dated by art historians to have been painted earlier than 1484, contains illos of 3 pair of joined hose. From Italy, the illo of The miracles of St. Vincent" by Ercole de Roberti shows two joined pair of hose. This painting is dated from the 1460s. Moving to Flanders, an illo from Christine de Pisan's book Epitre d'Othea, painted by Jean Mielot in 1461 shows joined hose in a number of illos. The Book of Hours of Etienne Chevalier by Jean Fouquet from the 1460s shows two carpenters wearing joined hose. The Chronicles of Hainault (illos by the studio of Guillaume Vrelant) dated to about 1447-1450 show joined hose (two men in the right side) in an illo of a Cardinal preaching in a courtyard. From Germany, Hans Talhoffer's "Book of Fencing" dated 1467 shows joined hose on all of the combatants, and the Codex Wallerstein of about the same date, shows the same. An interesting note, the Talhoffer book shows judicial duels, and in a few, there is a women wearing hose, but with no codpiece or visible join to the hose. The illos abovementioned come from Early Dutch Painting by Chatelet, Renaissance Dress in Italy 1400-1500 by Herald, The Book of Costume by Davenport and the facsimiles of Talhoffer and the Codex Wallerstein. I can cite pages and illo numbers if necessary. Mike T. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 01:10:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i465AQMx006269 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 01:10:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4659mmB025775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 23:09:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4659iJd069892; Wed, 5 May 2004 23:09:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4659gJd069878 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 23:09:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-87-66.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.87.66]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4658NT2014026 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 22:08:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040505220739.020859a0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 22:11:19 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch In-Reply-To: <4099C16D.9070906@in-tch.com> References: <4.1.20040505141921.02246150@mail.frys.com> <4.1.20040505141921.02246150@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well now I'm going to have to find my two books that have Queen's stitch in them. You may be right and I may have gone temporarily senile. Kathleen, I'll get back to you if I mis-remembered. >Huh! >The variety I know is kind of diamond shaped, done as a series of long >stitches going from a point of origin on top, to a final point on the >bottom. They're spread apart in the center of the diamond by a little >series of back stitches (done one at a time, once for each long pass). >Finicky and a pain in the behind to do, but nice textural effects when >done in a clump.... >I've seen it in a number of (modern) "embroidery encyclopedias." Dunno >about online sources (maybe googling would get you one of the sites that >hosts examples of different stitches) >--she, who learned how to do this when making "strawberries" for a 17th >c. band sampler..... CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 01:19:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i465JkMx006281 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 01:19:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i465J3mB026264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 23:19:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i465J2Jd073735; Wed, 5 May 2004 23:19:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i465J1Jd073715 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 23:19:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kendra@tweedlebop.com) Received: from unknown (HELO hopperflop2) (kendrav@sbcglobal.net@69.106.234.23 with login) by smtp812.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2004 05:19:00 -0000 Message-ID: <006201c43329$a21f1c00$0202a8c0@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1700's dress ? Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 22:18:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You're more than welcome! I think the pattern would work very well for a costume party dress. Have fun! - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" > > Kendra, > Thank you. This is very helpful. I am looking at make this pattern for a > costume party. Since authenticity is not a major fact (an attempt) I figure > that I would make a little extra effort. As I said this isn't my era of > interested and my time is limited that I can put in this dress. > Thank you again. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 01:35:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i465ZHMx006345 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 01:35:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i465XWmB027016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 May 2004 23:33:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i465XTJd080004; Wed, 5 May 2004 23:33:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i465XRJd079976 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 23:33:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AE2630DF0096; Thu, 06 May 2004 01:33:26 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.114]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 6 May 2004 01:33:21 -0400 Message-ID: <002501c4332c$7b3a1c40$725183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.1.20040505141921.02246150@mail.frys.com> <4099C16D.9070906@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 01:39:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 May 2004 05:33:26.0572 (UTC) FILETIME=[A7D71EC0:01C4332B] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks again for this description. I will add it to the other and look for some more of my craft books. I do embroidery and have always put needlepoint on the back burner. None of the books to date for n-p show any style of stitch but bargello and all the variants of the other stitches...except for Queen,s. kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 12:39 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch > Huh! > The variety I know is kind of diamond shaped, done as a series of long > stitches going from a point of origin on top, to a final point on the > bottom. They're spread apart in the center of the diamond by a little > series of back stitches (done one at a time, once for each long pass). > Finicky and a pain in the behind to do, but nice textural effects when > done in a clump.... > I've seen it in a number of (modern) "embroidery encyclopedias." Dunno > about online sources (maybe googling would get you one of the sites that > hosts examples of different stitches) > --she, who learned how to do this when making "strawberries" for a 17th > c. band sampler..... > > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > >>I have a hankering to do the chatelaine pin cushion found in the back of > >>"Fitting and Proper". I have a nice old brass cafe curtain ring with eye > >>that I think will make a good collar. But I cannot seem to find directions > >>for Queen's stitch needlepoint. Any one have a citation or can describe how > >>this stitch is done? > > > > > > It's in the back of that little embroidery book of 18th and early 19th > > century work from the Wintherthur collection. I'm terrible at names, so I > > don't know if that's the book you have or not. This book has photos of > > real stuff in the front, and several embroidery stitches in the back, and > > (without being able to find my copy, because it's buried) I'm sure it's in > > there. Failing that, it's in a book called Pincushions (also buried). > > > > Queen's stitch is done in a square. First find the middle hole in the > > square. Half the stitches go thru the middle hole and fan out to one of > > the holes on one side, and the other half of the stitches also go thru the > > middle hole and fan out to one of the holes on the opposite side. This > > pulls a big hole in the middle, and that's the hole you see in the photos > > of things using this stitch. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 02:13:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i466D8Mx011567 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 02:13:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i466CkmB028915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 00:12:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i466CbJd096598; Thu, 6 May 2004 00:12:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i466CZJd096530 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 00:12:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Rampant_Peacock@comcast.net) Received: from molly (c-67-170-26-145.client.comcast.net[67.170.26.145]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004050606122901600t1qdqe>; Thu, 6 May 2004 06:12:29 +0000 From: "Molly Boone" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] photo Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 23:10:28 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20040505.080124.-792753.6.lisa58@juno.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Check out www.cheeptrims.com for your trim. They sell in bulk lots only but the prices are incredibly low if they have what you need/want. You will probably want the bulk lot for the sheer volume of trim you are probably going to end up appliqueing. Molly -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lisa A Ashton Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:52 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] photo HAving a rare day off yesterday (!) and having a bunch of errends to do, I rambled on over to G Street Fabrics in Rockville (just to look, mind you, usually too expensive) and was able to pick up some fabric swatches to start thinking about fabrics for the sepia photo dress. Two are wool crepes--medium to heavy, and one is a gorgeous rust color, the other more of a deep rose beige; the third fabric was from the "specials"table of men's suitings--it was a nice mid-beige with a sort of random pattern of pale black vertical short lines (there is probably a name for it, but it wasn't on the label). It had the right weight but the crepe drapes better, of course. And I found some black spiral tube trim that would look great, although I foresee I"m going to need a hundred yards of it... I'm going to try fabric.com and some of the other online stores to get an idea if I can lower the price a bit... And I am think seriously about what sort of hat she would have. My mom agreed to give me everything she has about her, but the woman (her grandmother -whom she knows only as "Bubbe"--the Jewish word for grandma) died when my mom was only three. Yours in costuming, Lisa A. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 02:48:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i466m1Mx026547 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 02:48:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i466kOmB000586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 00:46:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i466kMJd011840; Thu, 6 May 2004 00:46:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i466kJJd011770 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 00:46:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Rampant_Peacock@comcast.net) Received: from molly (c-67-170-26-145.client.comcast.net[67.170.26.145]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004050606461301200rh5g5e>; Thu, 6 May 2004 06:46:14 +0000 From: "Molly Boone" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] CW middleclass Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 23:44:12 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <409993B2.A2539A5B@floodcity.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ok my 2 cents worth but please keep in mind I'm Elizabethan not Civil war. I'm not a small woman by any stretch of the imagination. At my heaviest I got up to a size 28 at my adult low I've been almost 16 and I'm almost back there again I'll probably never get below a 12 simply because of my bone structure, so I really understand the heat issue your talking about. Now for the good news, I've had very good luck with corsets and my Elizabethan corsets are minimum 4 layers (1 fashion fabric, 2 trigger or comparable canvas, 1 flannel). Now I'll admit I thought the person who told me to use the flannel next to my skin was insane but I tried it. IT HELPS. Flannel will wick the sweat off yet not get rid of it so it creates it's own A/C system. You sweat and the flannel wicks the sweat off but it doesn't go away so it cools next to your skin keeping you cooler. Oh and I'm a firm believer in solid steel boning if you are over an A cup. My DD collapsed a mixed plastic and spring stay corset at a very inopportune moment. Molly -----Original Message----- seventies and eighties always wears her costumes with modern foundations. I surely am concerned with not being too hot, since my weight causes me to feel the heat quite a bit. I liked what I read about stays, maybe I will try to duplcate them rather than corsets since, being heavy, I am concerned with corsets going weird on me with the modern plastic stays in them. I'm afraid my body is liable to bend the plastic in the wrong direction or that I will be too uncomfortable to sit through church with them. Oh well, no sense dumping all my mental flutter on you. I'll cogitate on it. LOL thanks, Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 07:26:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46BQJMx001045 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 07:26:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46BOQmB011775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 05:24:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46BOJJd026212; Thu, 6 May 2004 05:24:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m03.lax.untd.com (m03.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i46BOHJd026133 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 05:24:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa58@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 9q05Lp5l6pU14shT5B1ERkSx/niG0oIHHBs12FtTgyIxIy0KqJpuvA== Received: (from lisa58@juno.com) by m03.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JUXPXG4U; Thu, 06 May 2004 04:23:49 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 07:21:02 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] sepia photo Message-ID: <20040506.072109.-350733.0.lisa58@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-7,19-20,22-23,29-30 From: Lisa A Ashton X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I got a little bit of information about the woman in the photo, my great-grandmother. Her name was "Gussie" (I assume short for Augusta) and she lived from 1876 to 1936. My own grandmother was born in 1900, and was a second child. Gussie's husband Hyman was only a few year older than her, but he died young in 1905, just after his last child was born. (And I think I remember family 'legend' that she may have come to the States with her 4 children on her own). So. The photo should probably be dated anywhere from about 1893 (she would have been 17) to about 1898. I know that my grandma came to the US around 1906 (at age 6). And I am looking up some of the sites of the Jewish shtetls (villages--they were sometimes on the periphery of towns/cities, although stayed relatively isolated because they were Jews), but my understanding of marriage then from Jewish literature, is that girls may have been "betrothed" but were generally not married until at least 16 or 17. Better-off girls generally were married off later, although it wasn't unusual for parents to try to arrange marriages at fairly young ages. I am checking that out. But she doesn't look especially adolescent, just young. And if the photo dated later (1897-8) she could well be in early pregnancy. So. even if the photo dates from as early as 1893, the dress could date somewhat earlier. I am very much on the side of believing that it was a sort of "collage" dress--made and re-made in sections. I am also trying to search photographers in 19th C. Odessa to see if there are books out there with similar photos. And I found a used copy of "Victorian Costume for LAdies" which I am able to purchase for a good price. Thank you all so much, I never expected so much interesting discussion! Yours in costuming, Lisa A. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 07:41:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46Bf2Mx001072 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 07:41:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46BeRmB012643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 05:40:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46BeQJd032816; Thu, 6 May 2004 05:40:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i46BeNJe032720 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 05:40:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SAVSMTP 3.1.0.29) with SMTP id M2004050607401514888 for ; Thu, 06 May 2004 07:40:15 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id i46BeC8Q017386 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 07:40:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <033501c4335e$e9421120$5ba810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040506.072109.-350733.0.lisa58@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sepia photo Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 07:40:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Don't know if it would be relevant, or if you could find it, but the research than went into "Fiddler on the Roof " (which started life as "Tevya's Daughters") might be a place to look. Kate ************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa A Ashton" To: Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] sepia photo > I got a little bit of information about the woman in the photo, my > great-grandmother. Her name was "Gussie" (I assume short for Augusta) > and she lived from 1876 to 1936. My own grandmother was born in 1900, > and was a second child. Gussie's husband Hyman was only a few year > older than her, but he died young in 1905, just after his last child was > born. (And I think I remember family 'legend' that she may have come to > the States with her 4 children on her own). > > So. The photo should probably be dated anywhere from about 1893 (she > would have been 17) to about 1898. I know that my grandma came to the US > around 1906 (at age 6). And I am looking up some of the sites of the > Jewish shtetls (villages--they were sometimes on the periphery of > towns/cities, although stayed relatively isolated because they were > Jews), but my understanding of marriage then from Jewish literature, is > that girls may have been "betrothed" but were generally not married until > at least 16 or 17. Better-off girls generally were married off later, > although it wasn't unusual for parents to try to arrange marriages at > fairly young ages. I am checking that out. But she doesn't look > especially adolescent, just young. And if the photo dated later (1897-8) > she could well be in early pregnancy. > > So. even if the photo dates from as early as 1893, the dress could date > somewhat earlier. > > I am very much on the side of believing that it was a sort of "collage" > dress--made and re-made in sections. I am also trying to search > photographers in 19th C. Odessa to see if there are books out there with > similar photos. And I found a used copy of "Victorian Costume for > LAdies" which I am able to purchase for a good price. Thank you all so > much, I never expected so much interesting discussion! > > Yours in costuming, Lisa A. > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 08:01:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46C1pMx001128 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 08:01:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46C1LmB013544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 06:01:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46C1JJd041391; Thu, 6 May 2004 06:01:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m03.lax.untd.com (m03.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i46C1IJd041350 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 06:01:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa58@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 9q05Lp5l6pU14shT5B1ERrB9jZZgSRy3wMfpZHgcI+rMo5SY5/quDQ== Received: (from lisa58@juno.com) by m03.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JUXR3CDE; Thu, 06 May 2004 05:00:52 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 07:33:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW stays/corsets Message-ID: <20040506.075410.-350733.1.lisa58@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5 From: Lisa A Ashton X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Since we are on the subject of mid-19th C. Corsetes, I have to make a somewhat later corset--1890's. Would that have front center busks with the metal hinges and back lacings, as well? When you are talking about constructing it from center front to center back, are you meaning that there is a right half and a left half of the corset? Yours in costuming, Lisa A. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 08:07:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46C7CMx001144 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 08:07:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46C6gmB013908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 06:06:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46C6gJd043711; Thu, 6 May 2004 06:06:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46C6dJd043591 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 06:06:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i46C6NT03308.; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:06:23 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 06 May 2004 13:06:23 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 13:06:09 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Perhaps they were Lowland Scots? Kilts were a Highland tradition. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> homesewer@blazenet.net 06/05/2004 01:52:13 >>> I have a Scottish bloodline (Kennedy). At one of our family reunions we were told that even thought this line is from Scotland...they did not wear kilts. So, not all Scotsmen wore the kilts, but I do not know who did or who didn`t. I believe that they said that it depended on the area where they lived. Linda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 08:13:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46CDWMx001175 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 08:13:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46CBgmB014147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 06:11:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46CBfJd046019; Thu, 6 May 2004 06:11:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (sea2-f63.sea2.hotmail.com [207.68.165.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46CBeJd045990 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 06:11:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lrhaile@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 6 May 2004 05:11:35 -0700 Received: from 208.254.206.53 by sea2fd.sea2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 06 May 2004 12:11:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [208.254.206.53] X-Originating-Email: [lrhaile@hotmail.com] X-Sender: lrhaile@hotmail.com From: "L. Haile" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 08:11:34 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 May 2004 12:11:35.0120 (UTC) FILETIME=[46864500:01C43363] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Colors in Black and White photographs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This website has a color wheel in color, in modern grayscale, and in wet plate: http://www.diochra.com/sewingbird/articles/soap-colors.html -LRH _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 09:15:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46DFtMx001383 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:15:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46DFEmB018058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 07:15:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46DFAJd075201; Thu, 6 May 2004 07:15:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14007.mail.yahoo.com (web14007.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i46DF7Jd075167 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 07:15:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040506131505.66487.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 06 May 2004 14:15:05 BST Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 14:15:05 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001701c43304$60490360$59276818@blazenet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The kilt was a Highland tradition. Even then most of the nobles didn't wear kilts until the 17th-18th centuries when it became a sort of "nationalist" statement. Catalina (married to an Irvine) --- linda sterner wrote: > I have a Scottish bloodline (Kennedy). At one of > our family reunions we were told that even thought > this line is from Scotland...they did not wear > kilts. So, not all Scotsmen wore the kilts, but I > do not know who did or who didn`t. I believe that > they said that it depended on the area where they > lived. > > Linda > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 09:23:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46DNNMx001406 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:23:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46DLYmB018508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 07:21:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46DLXJd078235; Thu, 6 May 2004 07:21:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14008.mail.yahoo.com (web14008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i46DLJJd078108 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 07:21:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040506132118.20039.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 06 May 2004 14:21:18 BST Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 14:21:18 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Scottish Victorian costume To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <49249.206.124.3.104.1083800440.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Work clothes pretty much were indistinguishable as to country of origin. Trousers, sturdy shoes, shirt and a short coat. I have seen photos of early railroad workers where some of the workers were wearing plaid flat caps or the infamous "tam-o-shanters" in plaid. Occasionally you'll see a plaid vest. I think after the 1750, the kilt in Scotland became an uncommon item until after Victoria made efforts to revive its popularity. Then it seems to have taken a while for the working class to warm back up to it. Catalina --- sylvia@ntw.net wrote: > Now I'm researching Scottish Victorian costume too, > also circa 1890-1900. > Does anyone know how provalent the wearing of kilts > would have been and > who would have worn them? I've got both working > class men (mill workers) > who I'm sure wouldnt be wearing kilts and some > noblemen that I'm not sure > of. > > Sylrog > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 09:26:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46DQGMx001424 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:26:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46DPfmB018785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 07:25:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46DPcJd080156; Thu, 6 May 2004 07:25:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46DPaJd080085 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 07:25:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 06 May 2004 08:25:29 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Beta Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 08:25:18 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Queen's Stitch X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Found this diagram on line: http://www.tristanbrooks.com/Stitches/Queen.htm I'm another one who has seen it used a lot on early samplers and in the diamond shape. Catherine who wonders why all the porn sites popped up on goggle when she first searched unde Queens Stitch instead of Queen stitch........... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 09:50:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46Do7Mx001550 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:50:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46DnDmB020562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 07:49:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46DnAJd092129; Thu, 6 May 2004 07:49:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46Dn8Jd092111 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 07:49:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-50-103.jps.net ([209.165.50.103] helo=pavilion) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BLjFL-0002fe-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 06 May 2004 06:49:08 -0700 Message-ID: <001301c43372$e0a1b980$6732a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen's Stitch Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 07:03:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Re the porn sites - from personal experience - I have silk stockings discussed on one of my web pages, some porn operator did a key word search for sites with the words silk stockings and created a page with small segments of text surrounding silk stockings, in my case thrednedle strete and fastidious - they posted this page for the search engines to pick up then put a redirection on it to send people to porn. I'm all for free speech, but didn't appreciate people using my site to direct people to porn especially when oodles of grade schools search for info on my site. I reported this to google as you are not supposed to set up pages simple for search engines. The site was dropped from google's directory, but no doubt it will reappear in another form eventually. Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:25 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Queen's Stitch > Found this diagram on line: > > http://www.tristanbrooks.com/Stitches/Queen.htm > > I'm another one who has seen it used a lot on early samplers and in the > diamond shape. > > Catherine > who wonders why all the porn sites popped up on goggle when she first > searched unde Queens Stitch instead of Queen stitch........... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 10:30:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46EURMx001799 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 10:30:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46ESamB023791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 08:28:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46ESQJd015398; Thu, 6 May 2004 08:28:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46ESNJd015354 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 08:28:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from mail.ntw.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i46ERGN08597 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 08:27:16 -0600 Received: from 206.124.3.189 (SquirrelMail authenticated user sylvia) by mail.ntw.net with HTTP; Thu, 6 May 2004 08:27:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <49230.206.124.3.189.1083853636.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <20040506131505.66487.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> References: <001701c43304$60490360$59276818@blazenet.net> <20040506131505.66487.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:27:16 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts From: sylvia@ntw.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Then play takes place in Lancashire. Is that the highlands?> The kilt was a Highland tradition. Even then most of > the nobles didn't wear kilts until the 17th-18th > centuries when it became a sort of "nationalist" > statement. > Catalina > (married to an Irvine) > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 11:10:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46FAjMx002019 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 11:10:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46F9vmB027547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 09:09:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46F9sJd041533; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:09:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound20-2.nyc.untd.com (vlan1-1.bigip2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i46F9qJd041456 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:09:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail05.nyc.untd.com [10.140.30.145]) by smtpout06.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAKWXH7A4CYYGA for (sender ); Thu, 6 May 2004 08:08:45 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCnPeU0cBpBqpflAtkd2OcgKQGXXj+uciOQ== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail05.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JUX4SPLH; Thu, 06 May 2004 08:08:23 PDT Received: from [4.158.153.184] by webmail05.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Thu, 6 May 2004 15:08:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.158.153.184] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Original-From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 15:08:00 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain From: seamstrix@juno.com Message-Id: <20040506.080823.9034.109079@webmail05.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 6:3:495823018 X-MAIL-INFO: 1261b1043075dd6145303d11208154b1f4118954c5314554393ded09410979a4a570f909dd84ddb5509901a5d050c4f9e5a584c4f0c5d1c47d5534fd2dfd9d05ad4110fd90bd90645180a9ade051e9108dadbde981793d913d7024a17024a45024a450817525404d61a9d5a93089c1f595a931f955cd41cdfde419fde45110e451 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not only is Lancashire not the Highlands, it's not even in Scotland! It's certainly in Northern England, but it's roughly parallel to Yorkshire. Your folks would sound more Liverpuddlian than Highland....think 'All Creatures Great and Small'. Karen -- sylvia@ntw.net wrote: Then play takes place in Lancashire. Is that the highlands?> The kilt was a Highland tradition. Even then most of > the nobles didn't wear kilts until the 17th-18th > centuries when it became a sort of "nationalist" > statement. > Catalina > (married to an Irvine) > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 11:12:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46FCwMx002023 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 11:12:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46FCRmB027809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 09:12:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46FCQJd043340; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:12:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14005.mail.yahoo.com (web14005.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i46FCOJd043317 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:12:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040506151224.56009.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 06 May 2004 16:12:24 BST Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 16:12:24 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <49230.206.124.3.189.1083853636.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No. its on the Irish Sea on the west coast of Britain, it is Southwest of Northumberland. The Romans may have considered it Scotland at one time. But its definitely not the Highlands. The area is also referred to as the Lake District. Catalina --- sylvia@ntw.net wrote: > Then play takes place in Lancashire. Is that the > highlands?> > > The kilt was a Highland tradition. Even then most > of > > the nobles didn't wear kilts until the 17th-18th > > centuries when it became a sort of "nationalist" > > statement. > > Catalina > > (married to an Irvine) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 11:14:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46FEFMx002033 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 11:14:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46FDbmB027979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 09:13:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46FDbJd044173; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:13:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46FD4Jd043761 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:13:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i46FD3T20478.; Thu, 6 May 2004 16:13:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 06 May 2004 16:13:03 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 16:12:45 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What play? Lancashire isn't even in Scotland - it's in northern England! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> sylvia@ntw.net 06/05/2004 15:27:16 >>> Then play takes place in Lancashire. Is that the highlands?> The kilt was a Highland tradition. Even then most of > the nobles didn't wear kilts until the 17th-18th > centuries when it became a sort of "nationalist" > statement. > Catalina > (married to an Irvine) > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 11:28:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46FScMx002082 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 11:28:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46FS5mB029274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 09:28:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46FS2Jd053950; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:28:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46FRxJd053797 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:28:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com) Received: from acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com ([81.109.62.241]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040506152554.NXY6912.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com> for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 16:25:54 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20040506162405.02375af8@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 16:27:15 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts In-Reply-To: <20040506.080823.9034.109079@webmail05.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-17243587; boundary="=======72FB1865=======" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======72FB1865======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-17243587; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 16:08 06/05/2004 seamstrix@juno.com said >The kilt was a Highland tradition. Even then most of > > the nobles didn't wear kilts until the 17th-18th > > centuries when it became a sort of "nationalist" > > statement. The kilt didn't exist before about 1730, when a roadworker, tired of his Scottish workers wasting time rolling themselves into their plaids every morning, designed a ready sewn affair they would just have to belt on. Clan tartans didn't exist before Queen Victoria made a cult of them, following the example set shortly before by the Black Watch, a British army regiment. Before that it was Great Kilts, or plaids, dyed in locally available colours, so the patterns were regional, but not clan specific. After the 'forty five, the wearing of the plaid was banned by law, and wasn't re-introduced until later in the century, although a few Jacobite supporters stuck to their guns. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT The latest Richard and Rose adventure, HARLEY STREET, is here! http://www.novelbooksinc.com/>Novelbooks Inc. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ --=======72FB1865======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======72FB1865=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 11:35:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46FZHMx002126 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 11:35:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46FUamB029572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 09:30:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46FUZJd055703; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:30:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46FUTJd055648 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:30:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AA1333530064; Thu, 06 May 2004 11:30:27 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.111]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 6 May 2004 11:30:26 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c4337f$e60ea880$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen's Stitch Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:36:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 May 2004 15:30:27.0112 (UTC) FILETIME=[0E8BC280:01C4337F] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah, Thankyou! My project is taking on a life of its own. Just picked up 4 more books from our stupendous annual Library sale, and found the pattern I wanted. I am now wondering the identification format for the pattern that is called "Queens" in "Fitting and Proper". It plainly differs from the two or three names (like Algerian eye, Flat laid, and embellished daisy) that are garnered from the 8 or 10 volumes I have at hand. Also of interest, is the origin of 'Queens'. For those of you who do the decorative arts in periods before 1750, is there a particular Queen who did needlepoint embroiderie? (besides the Norman conquest canvases? Kathleen----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:25 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Queen's Stitch > Found this diagram on line: > > http://www.tristanbrooks.com/Stitches/Queen.htm > > I'm another one who has seen it used a lot on early samplers and in the > diamond shape. > > Catherine > who wonders why all the porn sites popped up on goggle when she first > searched unde Queens Stitch instead of Queen stitch........... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 11:41:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46FfMMx002154 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 11:41:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46FeCmB000869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 09:40:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46Fe8Jd062663; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:40:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta04-svc.ntlworld.com (mta04-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46Fe6Jd062539 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:40:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com) Received: from acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com ([81.109.62.241]) by mta04-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040506153902.DHC28345.mta04-svc.ntlworld.com@acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com> for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 16:39:02 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20040506163847.02389b10@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 16:39:40 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts In-Reply-To: <20040506151224.56009.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> References: <49230.206.124.3.189.1083853636.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-17243587; boundary="=======2AFF5812=======" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======2AFF5812======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-17243587; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 16:12 06/05/2004 Catalina Saravia Quicedo said >No. its on the Irish Sea on the west coast of Britain, >it is Southwest of Northumberland. The Romans may have >considered it Scotland at one time. But its definitely >not the Highlands. The area is also referred to as the >Lake District. Nearly right. The Lake District is in Cumbria, one county up from us in Lancashire. Gracie Fields, anyone? Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT The latest Richard and Rose adventure, HARLEY STREET, is here! http://www.novelbooksinc.com/>Novelbooks Inc. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ --=======2AFF5812======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======2AFF5812=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 11:59:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46FxwMx002409 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 11:59:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46FxSmB003053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 09:59:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46FxOJd077045; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:59:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46FxMJd077022 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:59:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.20.5] (a5.denver.dial.dimcom.net [206.124.20.5]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i46FwGN15138 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:58:17 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 09:39:55 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts From: Sylvia To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040506.080823.9034.109079@webmail05.nyc.untd.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Really? One of the lead characters is described as Scottish miller, so I assumed he would be living and working in Scotland. And there's an episode in the play which is supposed to have taken place right at the border of Scotland and England, so it may be that some of the characters are Scottish. > From: seamstrix@juno.com > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 15:08:00 GMT > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts > > > Not only is Lancashire not the Highlands, it's not even in Scotland! It's > certainly in Northern England, but it's roughly parallel to Yorkshire. Your > folks would sound more Liverpuddlian than Highland....think 'All Creatures > Great and Small'. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 12:02:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46G2gMx002448 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 12:02:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46G0umB003211 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 10:00:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46G0uJd078266; Thu, 6 May 2004 10:00:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46FxoJd077354 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:59:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.20.5] (a5.denver.dial.dimcom.net [206.124.20.5]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i46FwgN15158 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 09:58:42 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 09:41:02 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts From: Sylvia To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.14.0.20040506162405.02375af8@pop.ntlworld.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So would it have been worn around 1890 by anyone? > From: Lynne Connolly > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 16:27:15 +0100 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts > > On 16:08 06/05/2004 seamstrix@juno.com said >> The kilt was a Highland tradition. Even then most of >>> the nobles didn't wear kilts until the 17th-18th >>> centuries when it became a sort of "nationalist" >>> statement. > > The kilt didn't exist before about 1730, when a roadworker, tired of his > Scottish workers wasting time rolling themselves into their plaids every > morning, designed a ready sewn affair they would just have to belt on. Clan > tartans didn't exist before Queen Victoria made a cult of them, following > the example set shortly before by the Black Watch, a British army regiment. > Before that it was Great Kilts, or plaids, dyed in locally available > colours, so the patterns were regional, but not clan specific. After the > 'forty five, the wearing of the plaid was banned by law, and wasn't > re-introduced until later in the century, although a few Jacobite > supporters stuck to their guns. > > > Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT > The latest Richard and Rose adventure, HARLEY STREET, is here! > http://www.novelbooksinc.com/>Novelbooks Inc. > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 12:13:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46GDFMx002536 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 12:13:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46GCZmB004560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 10:12:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46GCXJd087169; Thu, 6 May 2004 10:12:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out009.verizon.net (out009pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.131]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46GCRJd087117 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 10:12:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pandoraf@verizon.net) Received: from outgoing.verizon.net ([192.168.1.3]) by out009.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040506161227.EGIP29216.out009.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 11:12:27 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.12 (webedge20-101-197-20030912) From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] kilts Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 9:12:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out009.verizon.net from [192.168.1.3] at Thu, 6 May 2004 11:12:27 -0500 Message-Id: <20040506161227.EGIP29216.out009.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO it's not even in Scotland! it's a county in NW England http://www.pickatrail.com/jupiter/location/europe/england/lancashire.html > > From: sylvia@ntw.net > Date: 2004/05/06 Thu AM 07:27:16 PDT > To: "Historical Costume" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts > > Then play takes place in Lancashire. Is that the highlands?> > > The kilt was a Highland tradition. Even then most of > > the nobles didn't wear kilts until the 17th-18th > > centuries when it became a sort of "nationalist" > > statement. > > Catalina > > (married to an Irvine) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 12:26:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46GQTMx002587 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 12:26:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46GN0nJ006036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 10:24:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46G34Jd080008; Thu, 6 May 2004 10:03:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out009.verizon.net (out009pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.131]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46G2oJd079818 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 10:02:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pandoraf@verizon.net) Received: from outgoing.verizon.net ([192.168.1.3]) by out009.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040506160250.ECVF29216.out009.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 11:02:50 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.12 (webedge20-101-197-20030912) From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] kilts Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 9:02:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out009.verizon.net from [192.168.1.3] at Thu, 6 May 2004 11:02:50 -0500 Message-Id: <20040506160250.ECVF29216.out009.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO here are a couple sites I think are pretty reliable (and cite documentation) about the history of Highland dress, and specifically the kilt: http://www.albanach.org/ http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/scottish/kilts.html http://www.medievalscotland.org/clothing/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 13:56:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46HuwMx002976 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:56:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46HuCmB016434 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 11:56:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46Hu2Jd067629; Thu, 6 May 2004 11:56:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46HtiJd067279 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 11:55:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BLn5q-0007RE-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 06 May 2004 18:55:34 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 17:47:58 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts References: <001701c43304$60490360$59276818@blazenet.net> <20040506131505.66487.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> <49230.206.124.3.189.1083853636.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <49230.206.124.3.189.1083853636.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Many people have told you that Lancashire is in England. But do you perhaps mean Lanarkshire? That's in Scotland, sort of south-east of Glasgow. A very fertile, agricultural part of the Lowlands. Going just on vague memories of folk songs etc, I think the name Kennedy would fit with that area. If you look for clan websites you will probably find maps to show you. Jean (who lives in Edinburgh) sylvia@ntw.net wrote >Then play takes place in Lancashire. Is that the highlands?> > > The kilt was a Highland tradition. Even then most of >> the nobles didn't wear kilts until the 17th-18th >> centuries when it became a sort of "nationalist" >> statement. >> Catalina >> (married to an Irvine) >> >> >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 13:58:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46HwwMx002994 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:58:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46HwTmB016689 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 11:58:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46HwRJd069543; Thu, 6 May 2004 11:58:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46HtiJd067288 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 11:55:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BLn5q-0007RF-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 06 May 2004 18:55:34 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:00:26 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Scottish Victorian costume References: <49249.206.124.3.104.1083800440.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> <20040506132118.20039.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040506132118.20039.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think you would find a marked urban/rural split as well. The rich folks might have had their servants wear kilts on their Highland estates (like John Brown) but not in town. I get the impression it was a "fantasy" fashion, rather than a "sophisticated" fashion, if that makes sense. Kilts were, of course, quickly adopted for the uniform of some Scottish regiments, and you would see more people going about in uniform in Victorian times, so that might be a factor. As to the working class wearing them, kilts are very expensive - there's a huge amount of high quality wool in there, which costs once you have to buy it instead of having your own clan's sheep and your women to weave it. I don't think the working classes could afford it on their own account. Just my un-learned tuppence-worth Jean Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote >Work clothes pretty much were indistinguishable as to >country of origin. Trousers, sturdy shoes, shirt and a >short coat. I have seen photos of early railroad >workers where some of the workers were wearing plaid >flat caps or the infamous "tam-o-shanters" in plaid. >Occasionally you'll see a plaid vest. I think after >the 1750, the kilt in Scotland became an uncommon item >until after Victoria made efforts to revive its >popularity. Then it seems to have taken a while for >the working class to warm back up to it. > >Catalina > > > --- sylvia@ntw.net wrote: > Now I'm researching >Scottish Victorian costume too, >> also circa 1890-1900. >> Does anyone know how provalent the wearing of kilts >> would have been and >> who would have worn them? I've got both working >> class men (mill workers) >> who I'm sure wouldnt be wearing kilts and some >> noblemen that I'm not sure >> of. >> >> Sylrog >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >===== >Catalina >Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > >____________________________________________________________ >Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" >your friends today! Download Messenger Now >http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 14:33:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46IX9Mx003245 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 14:33:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46IWTmB019902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 12:32:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46IWOJd096028; Thu, 6 May 2004 12:32:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46IWGJd095936 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 12:32:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from mail.ntw.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i46IVAN27596 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 12:31:10 -0600 Received: from 206.124.3.72 (SquirrelMail authenticated user sylvia) by mail.ntw.net with HTTP; Thu, 6 May 2004 12:31:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <49610.206.124.3.72.1083868270.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> In-Reply-To: References: <001701c43304$60490360$59276818@blazenet.net><20040506131505.66487.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com><49230.206.124.3.189.1083853636.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 12:31:10 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts From: sylvia@ntw.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The play does say Lancashire. I'm trying to get word from the director as to what he knows about it. > Many people have told you that Lancashire is in England. But do you > perhaps mean Lanarkshire? That's in Scotland, sort of south-east of > Glasgow. A very fertile, agricultural part of the Lowlands. Going just > on vague memories of folk songs etc, I think the name Kennedy would fit > with that area. If you look for clan websites you will probably find > maps to show you. > > Jean > (who lives in Edinburgh) > > > sylvia@ntw.net wrote >>Then play takes place in Lancashire. Is that the highlands?> >> >> The kilt was a Highland tradition. Even then most of >>> the nobles didn't wear kilts until the 17th-18th >>> centuries when it became a sort of "nationalist" >>> statement. >>> Catalina >>> (married to an Irvine) >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- > Jean Waddie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 14:50:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46IodMx003400 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 14:50:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46InlmB021412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 12:49:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46IniJd008955; Thu, 6 May 2004 12:49:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14002.mail.yahoo.com (web14002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i46ImTJd007993 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 12:48:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040506184827.32648.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 06 May 2004 19:48:27 BST Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:48:27 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO yes, there are some photos of people with ties to Victoria's Court and a few other prominent members of British Society wearing kilts. High quality wool was very expensive, so the average joe on the street probably would not have been seen in one unless he was a member of a Highland Regiment. as a side note, the British credited their defeat at Crimea to the fact that the regiment for trews into battle for once time instead of their kilts. A situation which previously occured at the battle for New Orleans cicra 1812. Catalina --- Sylvia wrote: > So would it have been worn around 1890 by anyone? > > > From: Lynne Connolly > > Reply-To: Historical Costume > > Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 16:27:15 +0100 > > To: Historical Costume > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts > > > > On 16:08 06/05/2004 seamstrix@juno.com said > >> The kilt was a Highland tradition. Even then most > of > >>> the nobles didn't wear kilts until the 17th-18th > >>> centuries when it became a sort of "nationalist" > >>> statement. > > ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 14:53:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46IrdMx003405 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 14:53:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46IqimB021618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 12:52:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46IqgJd011261; Thu, 6 May 2004 12:52:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14001.mail.yahoo.com (web14001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i46IpCJd010224 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 12:51:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040506185110.61944.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 06 May 2004 19:51:10 BST Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:51:10 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO well its not that far south from Cumbria, and the distances involved are not that great, relatively speaking. Its not impossible. Catalina --- Sylvia wrote: > Really? One of the lead characters is described as > Scottish miller, so I > assumed he would be living and working in Scotland. > And there's an episode > in the play which is supposed to have taken place > right at the border of > Scotland and England, so it may be that some of the > characters are Scottish. > ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 15:14:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46JEhMx003502 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:14:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46JClmB023409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 13:12:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46JCDJd025880; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:12:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound20-2.nyc.untd.com (vlan1-1.bigip2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i46JC4Jd025755 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:12:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail15.nyc.untd.com [10.140.30.157]) by smtpout03.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAKXDQGAVAMDJS for (sender ); Thu, 6 May 2004 12:11:02 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCnPeU0cBpBqpjU5K+6zcsYywpC8ByecSOw== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JUYJND5U; Thu, 06 May 2004 12:10:43 PDT Received: from [4.158.81.131] by webmail15.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:10:01 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.158.81.131] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Original-From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:10:01 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain From: seamstrix@juno.com Message-Id: <20040506.121043.4282.28579@webmail15.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 3:4:3162134008 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO By the end of the 19th century, travel was pretty easy thru most of England and Scotland. I wouldn't be surprised to find a Scot working in Northern England. People will go where the work is. However, unless the play specifically mentions that he is a Highlander, I would hesitate to dress him as one. Folks in the Highlands didn't move around as much Lowland Scots so a Lowlander is a much better bet and a Lowlander would definitely not be wearing a kilt. And Lancashire is near the English/Scottish border, but the border areas (Debatable Lands) were definitely populated by non-kilt wearing Lowlanders who dressed pretty much the same as their English opposite numbers. Karen -- Sylvia wrote: Really? One of the lead characters is described as Scottish miller, so I assumed he would be living and working in Scotland. And there's an episode in the play which is supposed to have taken place right at the border of Scotland and England, so it may be that some of the characters are Scottish. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 15:35:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46JZAMx003563 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:35:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46JXrmB025499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 13:33:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46JXrJd041968; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:33:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46JXnJd041929 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:33:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.85] (p21.3c02.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.85]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i46JWgN00504 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:32:43 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 13:15:03 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts From: Sylvia To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040506.121043.4282.28579@webmail15.nyc.untd.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's the Scottish guy's own mill, so one would assume that the mill is in Scotland if he is Scottish. But its the higher class guys in the play that I was wondering if they would be in kilts. One has the title of lord. > From: seamstrix@juno.com > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:10:01 GMT > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts > > > By the end of the 19th century, travel was pretty easy thru most of England > and Scotland. I wouldn't be surprised to find a Scot working in Northern > England. People will go where the work is. However, unless the play > specifically mentions that he is a Highlander, I would hesitate to dress him > as one. Folks in the Highlands didn't move around as much Lowland Scots so a > Lowlander is a much better bet and a Lowlander would definitely not be wearing > a kilt. And Lancashire is near the English/Scottish border, but the border > areas (Debatable Lands) were definitely populated by non-kilt wearing > Lowlanders who dressed pretty much the same as their English opposite numbers. > > > Karen > > -- Sylvia wrote: > Really? One of the lead characters is described as Scottish miller, so I > assumed he would be living and working in Scotland. And there's an episode > in the play which is supposed to have taken place right at the border of > Scotland and England, so it may be that some of the characters are Scottish. > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 15:35:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46JZGMx003566 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:35:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46JWjmB025401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 13:32:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46JWgJd041158; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:32:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46JWcJd041092 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:32:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBC9B13E223 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 19:32:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 44888-01 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 19:32:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 7DF6E13E290; Thu, 6 May 2004 19:32:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust85.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.85]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 00B8813E290 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 19:32:32 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <065f01c433a1$14732c20$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040506.075410.-350733.1.lisa58@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost]1890s corsets (was: CW stays/corsets) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 14:33:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa A Ashton" > Since we are on the subject of mid-19th C. Corsetes, I have to make a > somewhat later corset--1890's. Would that have front center busks with > the metal hinges and back lacings, as well? Most of the time, yes. There were styles that didn't fit this mold, though--for example, some just buttoned up the front, such as the Ferris Good Sense and the Equipoise. In fact, some styles were available in models that didn't even lace. (For the college girl, or the bicyclist, or the basketball player, or the calisthenist, or...) > When you are talking about > constructing it from center front to center back, are you meaning that > there is a right half and a left half of the corset? For those that lace at back and fasten at front, yes. Picture unlacing it completely, and unfastening the front. Boom, two pieces: left half, right half. On the subject of construction: Someone mentioned earlier that sewing both inner and outer layers into the seam for each section is stronger, more durable, and creates a nicer finished effect. (This is often referred to as flatlining, though the term is a bit misleading, because the two layers are NOT treated as though they are one layer, as they are in what we generally call flatlining here. Look at figure 2 on this website http://thescholarsgarret.com/artifact/article_kirtle.html for a diagram.) This is absolutely true; it is more durable, and makes it a bit easier to get everything perfectly matched up. Unfortunately, it only works with a limited range of corset styles. An error many make, when it comes to corsetmaking, is to always try to put the boning at or near the seams. While this is accurate and workable for some styles, it is NOT accurate nor workable for many, many others. For example, trying to bone an Edwardian corset on the seams would not only make your head explode, it would be horribly painful if you actually managed it. Either that, or your pattern would just be... wrong, and wouldn't create the Edwardian silhouette. Most gored corsets, in general, should not be boned at the seams, even if it's technically possible. Even with many simple panelled corsets, the seam lines are not laid in such a way that a piece of boning would lie flat along it; instead, it would twist and dig into your flesh or your hipbones at the least comfortable places possible. Designing a corset where the bones will lie properly if laid in along the seams is actually a very difficult process, and generally not worth the effort! Search eBay--you'll generally find a ton of corset advertisements, which often show clear diagrams of where the seams and where the bones lie on popular corset styles. The Library of Congress's image library is also very handy (though a lot more tedious to search) and the US Patent Office (even more tedious to search) also has a surprising number of good images. What style of 1890s corset are you making, and what are you planning to wear it with? -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 15:55:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46JtZMx003669 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:55:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46JsomB027679 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 13:54:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46JsnJd058243; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:54:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out011.verizon.net (out011pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46Js4Jd057719 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:54:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from outgoing.verizon.net ([192.168.1.1]) by out011.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040506195403.XERD18566.out011.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 14:54:03 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.12 (webedge20-101-197-20030912) From: Ron Carnegie To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] kilts Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 15:54:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out011.verizon.net from [192.168.1.1] at Thu, 6 May 2004 14:54:03 -0500 Message-Id: <20040506195403.XERD18566.out011.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wouldn't think that just because he is Scottish that the mill is in Scotland. That fact that they refer to him as Scottish suggests to me that the others are not. In the period I work we have a number of Scottish Merchants but their stores are not in Scotland. I think that Kennedy is a border name by the way. Cheers, Ron > > From: Sylvia > Date: 2004/05/06 Thu PM 03:15:03 EDT > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts > > It's the Scottish guy's own mill, so one would assume that the mill is in > Scotland if he is Scottish. But its the higher class guys in the play that > I was wondering if they would be in kilts. One has the title of lord. > > > From: seamstrix@juno.com > > Reply-To: Historical Costume > > Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:10:01 GMT > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts > > > > > > By the end of the 19th century, travel was pretty easy thru most of England > > and Scotland. I wouldn't be surprised to find a Scot working in Northern > > England. People will go where the work is. However, unless the play > > specifically mentions that he is a Highlander, I would hesitate to dress him > > as one. Folks in the Highlands didn't move around as much Lowland Scots so a > > Lowlander is a much better bet and a Lowlander would definitely not be wearing > > a kilt. And Lancashire is near the English/Scottish border, but the border > > areas (Debatable Lands) were definitely populated by non-kilt wearing > > Lowlanders who dressed pretty much the same as their English opposite numbers. > > > > > > Karen > > > > -- Sylvia wrote: > > Really? One of the lead characters is described as Scottish miller, so I > > assumed he would be living and working in Scotland. And there's an episode > > in the play which is supposed to have taken place right at the border of > > Scotland and England, so it may be that some of the characters are Scottish. > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 15:55:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46JtlMx003673 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:55:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46JrcmB027541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 13:53:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46JrZJd057341; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:53:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46JrVJd057287 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:53:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A7BA2D7B009C; Thu, 06 May 2004 15:53:30 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.122]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 6 May 2004 15:53:29 -0400 Message-ID: <005101c433a4$a60dec80$7a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] photo Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 15:59:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 May 2004 19:53:30.0480 (UTC) FILETIME=[CE2A9700:01C433A3] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Or you can buy your braid from them, if you can find an appropriate one and reconstruct the lovely pattern on your picture. (The first time I did the down-load, the pattern of the braid was so clear in the blown up version. You could also get a nice reel of black satin cord from Fire Mountain and put it with a fancy reel from Homesew.com, (their Victorian braid trim:about $12 for maybe 20 yds.) Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Molly Boone" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 2:10 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] photo > Check out www.cheeptrims.com for your trim. They sell in bulk lots only but > the prices are incredibly low if they have what you need/want. You will > probably want the bulk lot for the sheer volume of trim you are probably > going to end up appliqueing. > > Molly > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Lisa A Ashton > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:52 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] photo > > > HAving a rare day off yesterday (!) and having a bunch of errends to do, > I rambled on over to G Street Fabrics in Rockville (just to look, mind > you, usually too expensive) and was able to pick up some fabric swatches > to start thinking about fabrics for the sepia photo dress. Two are wool > crepes--medium to heavy, and one is a gorgeous rust color, the other more > of a deep rose beige; the third fabric was from the "specials"table of > men's suitings--it was a nice mid-beige with a sort of random pattern of > pale black vertical short lines (there is probably a name for it, but it > wasn't on the label). It had the right weight but the crepe drapes > better, of course. > > And I found some black spiral tube trim that would look great, although I > foresee I"m going to need a hundred yards of it... I'm going to try > fabric.com and some of the other online stores to get an idea if I can > lower the price a bit... > > And I am think seriously about what sort of hat she would have. > > My mom agreed to give me everything she has about her, but the woman (her > grandmother -whom she knows only as "Bubbe"--the Jewish word for grandma) > died when my mom was only three. > > Yours in costuming, Lisa A. > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 16:04:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46K4hMx003726 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 16:04:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46K43mB028554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 14:04:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46K3wJd065193; Thu, 6 May 2004 14:03:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46K3uJd065163 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 14:03:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.85] (p21.3c02.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.85]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i46K2nN02999 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 14:02:49 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 13:45:09 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts From: Sylvia To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040506195403.XERD18566.out011.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think that is the case. I just did a Google search for the play and discovered in a synopsis that he has leased the mill from his brother. So here's another question: Were there squires and lords in Scotland? I was thinking I might put one of the nobles in kilts. > From: Ron Carnegie > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 15:54:03 -0400 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] kilts > > I wouldn't think that just because he is Scottish that the mill is in > Scotland. That fact that they refer to him as Scottish suggests to me that > the others are not. In the period I work we have a number of Scottish > Merchants but their stores are not in Scotland. I think that Kennedy is a > border name by the way. > > Cheers, > Ron >> >> From: Sylvia >> Date: 2004/05/06 Thu PM 03:15:03 EDT >> To: Historical Costume >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts >> >> It's the Scottish guy's own mill, so one would assume that the mill is in >> Scotland if he is Scottish. But its the higher class guys in the play that >> I was wondering if they would be in kilts. One has the title of lord. >> >>> From: seamstrix@juno.com >>> Reply-To: Historical Costume >>> Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:10:01 GMT >>> To: h-costume@indra.com >>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts >>> >>> >>> By the end of the 19th century, travel was pretty easy thru most of England >>> and Scotland. I wouldn't be surprised to find a Scot working in Northern >>> England. People will go where the work is. However, unless the play >>> specifically mentions that he is a Highlander, I would hesitate to dress him >>> as one. Folks in the Highlands didn't move around as much Lowland Scots so a >>> Lowlander is a much better bet and a Lowlander would definitely not be >>> wearing >>> a kilt. And Lancashire is near the English/Scottish border, but the border >>> areas (Debatable Lands) were definitely populated by non-kilt wearing >>> Lowlanders who dressed pretty much the same as their English opposite >>> numbers. >>> >>> >>> Karen >>> >>> -- Sylvia wrote: >>> Really? One of the lead characters is described as Scottish miller, so I >>> assumed he would be living and working in Scotland. And there's an episode >>> in the play which is supposed to have taken place right at the border of >>> Scotland and England, so it may be that some of the characters are Scottish. >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________________________________ >>> The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! >>> Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! >>> Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 16:12:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46KC4Mx003754 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 16:12:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46KBJmB029147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 14:11:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46KBFJd070729; Thu, 6 May 2004 14:11:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51105.mail.yahoo.com (web51105.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i46KBDJd070640 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 14:11:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claudine_on_the_net@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040506201058.29993.qmail@web51105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.17.149.13] by web51105.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 06 May 2004 13:10:58 PDT Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 13:10:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Claudine To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] source for silk grosgrain ribbon? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone have a source, online or catalogue, for silk grosgrain ribbon? Google searches aren't coming up with much. I'm looking for colors but white will do, in 7/8" or wider. Thanks very much, Claudine __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 16:19:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46KJ7Mx003764 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 16:19:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46KIPmB029875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 14:18:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46KIMJd076383; Thu, 6 May 2004 14:18:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46KIIJd076227 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 14:18:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 978204 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 06 May 2004 13:18:10 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 13:18:10 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] source for silk grosgrain ribbon? From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040506201058.29993.qmail@web51105.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've only heard of silk grosgrain ribbon in vintage hats. If you do find a source, would you please share? The only grosgrain I've seen is all poly, all acetate, or poly-cotton blend. I'd love to redress some of my vintage hats with real silk grosgrain. LynnD On 5/6/04 1:10 PM, "Claudine" wrote: > Does anyone have a source, online or catalogue, for > silk grosgrain ribbon? Google searches aren't coming > up with much. I'm looking for colors but white will > do, in 7/8" or wider. > > Thanks very much, > Claudine > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 16:53:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46KruMx003893 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 16:53:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46KrDmB003744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 14:53:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46KrBJd003155; Thu, 6 May 2004 14:53:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46Kr7Jd003093 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 14:53:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BLprd-0004V2-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 06 May 2004 21:53:05 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 21:22:14 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts References: <20040506.121043.4282.28579@webmail15.nyc.untd.com> In-Reply-To: <20040506.121043.4282.28579@webmail15.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't think they were "Debateable Lands" by the end of the 19th century. We were really pretty civilised by then, you know ;-) I'm not even sure whether Highlanders were still routinely wearing the kilt by this period. I would guess more the same as poor farmers everywhere - trousers, shirt, waistcoat, flat cap. Jean seamstrix@juno.com wrote > >By the end of the 19th century, travel was pretty easy thru most of >England and Scotland. I wouldn't be surprised to find a Scot working in >Northern England. People will go where the work is. However, unless the >play specifically mentions that he is a Highlander, I would hesitate to >dress him as one. Folks in the Highlands didn't move around as much >Lowland Scots so a Lowlander is a much better bet and a Lowlander would >definitely not be wearing a kilt. And Lancashire is near the >English/Scottish border, but the border areas (Debatable Lands) were >definitely populated by non-kilt wearing Lowlanders who dressed pretty >much the same as their English opposite numbers. > > >Karen > >-- Sylvia wrote: >Really? One of the lead characters is described as Scottish miller, so I >assumed he would be living and working in Scotland. And there's an episode >in the play which is supposed to have taken place right at the border of >Scotland and England, so it may be that some of the characters are Scottish. > > > >________________________________________________________________ >The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! >Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! >Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 17:04:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46L4FMx003932 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 17:04:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46L3TmB004852 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 15:03:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46L3NJd010942; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:03:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound28-2.lax.untd.com (vlan1-1.bigip2.lax.untd.com [64.136.28.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i46L3IJd010787 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:03:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa58@juno.com) Received: from outbound29-sr.lax.untd.com (webmail08.lax.untd.com [10.130.30.148]) by smtpout04.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABAKXK98ABBR8ZS for (sender ); Thu, 6 May 2004 14:02:54 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 9q05Lp5l6pU14shT5B1ERpENSxbErtlHSjjkjDUBGl4tAjjMaLk0ow== Received: (from lisa58@juno.com) by webmail08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JUYQ2X4G; Thu, 06 May 2004 14:02:26 PDT Received: from [12.167.137.225] by webmail08.lax.untd.com with HTTP: Thu, 6 May 2004 21:01:46 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.167.137.225] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Original-From: "lisa58@juno.com" Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 21:01:46 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost]1890s corsets (was: CW stays/corsets) X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain From: lisa58@juno.com Message-Id: <20040506.140226.5856.37463@webmail08.lax.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:2:3110204590 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the corset innfo. I will be making the corset for the foundation of making the mid-1890'2 dress in the seepia print that I posted at www.oldwaylane.net/ukrainian/html I am looking to make a corset with a longer torso, to the hips, if possible. Yours in costuming, Lisa A. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 17:11:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46LBPMx003962 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 17:11:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46L9XmB005433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 15:09:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46L9XJd015715; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:09:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46L9VJd015633 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:09:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com) Received: from acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com ([81.109.62.241]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040506210858.BHX28995.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com> for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:08:58 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20040506220747.0236d168@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 22:09:19 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts In-Reply-To: References: <20040506.121043.4282.28579@webmail15.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-415647C9; boundary="=======79724037=======" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======79724037======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-415647C9; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 20:15 06/05/2004 Sylvia said >It's the Scottish guy's own mill, so one would assume that the mill is in >Scotland if he is Scottish. But its the higher class guys in the play that >I was wondering if they would be in kilts. One has the title of lord. By the 1890's kilts were fancy dress. Dress kilts were (and are) used on special occasions like weddings, but not otherwise. John Brown wore one because Vicky liked it. I nearly choked when someone described Lancashire as being 'near Scotland.' Take it from a resident. It isn't. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT The latest Richard and Rose adventure, HARLEY STREET, is here! http://www.novelbooksinc.com/>Novelbooks Inc. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ --=======79724037======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======79724037=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 17:15:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46LFpMx003974 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 17:15:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46LE3mB005922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 15:14:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46LE2Jd018960; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:14:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46LE1Jd018945 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:14:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.85] (p21.3c02.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.85]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i46LCtN08520 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:12:55 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 14:55:15 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts From: Sylvia To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.14.0.20040506220747.0236d168@pop.ntlworld.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How far away is it? > From: Lynne Connolly > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 22:09:19 +0100 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts > > On 20:15 06/05/2004 Sylvia said >> It's the Scottish guy's own mill, so one would assume that the mill is in >> Scotland if he is Scottish. But its the higher class guys in the play that >> I was wondering if they would be in kilts. One has the title of lord. > > By the 1890's kilts were fancy dress. Dress kilts were (and are) used on > special occasions like weddings, but not otherwise. John Brown wore one > because Vicky liked it. > I nearly choked when someone described Lancashire as being 'near Scotland.' > Take it from a resident. It isn't. > > > Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT > The latest Richard and Rose adventure, HARLEY STREET, is here! > http://www.novelbooksinc.com/>Novelbooks Inc. > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 17:19:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46LJ4Mx003983 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 17:19:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46LHCmB006209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 15:17:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46LH8Jd021093; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:17:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46LGkJd020790 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:16:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com) Received: from acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com ([81.109.62.241]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040506211646.CVLG25591.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com> for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:16:46 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20040506220952.0236cee8@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 22:16:29 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts In-Reply-To: References: <20040506195403.XERD18566.out011.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-415647C9; boundary="=======48AC1D6C=======" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======48AC1D6C======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-415647C9; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 20:45 06/05/2004 Sylvia said >So here's another question: Were there squires and lords in Scotland? I >was thinking I might put one of the nobles in kilts. I appreciate that you like kilts. But no Scotsman would use a kilt as everyday wear in the late nineteenth century, unless they were making some kind of point. By the 1890's we had the telephone, the telegram, and the railway. As others have said, kilts are expensive, and are kept for ceremonial and dress wear. Scotsmen don't generally declare their nationality until they open their mouths, and my friend (a Macrae married to a Malcolm) went to an English boarding school, so sometimes not even then! Lords and ladies abound in Scotland (the late Queen Mother was a Scot, daughter of the Earl of Strathmore). If you want specific titles, you should be able to find some on the Debrett's website. There are some differences between Scottish and English nobility, mainly in the area of inheritance and the title of 'Master,' but generally speaking, the usage is similar. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT The latest Richard and Rose adventure, HARLEY STREET, is here! http://www.novelbooksinc.com/>Novelbooks Inc. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ --=======48AC1D6C======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======48AC1D6C=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 17:24:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46LOaMx004007 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 17:24:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46LO3mB006796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 15:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46LNwJd026041; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:23:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46LNtJd025968 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:23:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.85] (p21.3c02.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.85]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i46LMjN09323 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:22:45 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:05:05 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts From: Sylvia To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.14.0.20040506220952.0236cee8@pop.ntlworld.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you all for your expertise on kilts! You are a wealth of information. Ok. I'll rethink the kilt idea. > From: Lynne Connolly > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 22:16:29 +0100 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts > > On 20:45 06/05/2004 Sylvia said >> So here's another question: Were there squires and lords in Scotland? I >> was thinking I might put one of the nobles in kilts. > > I appreciate that you like kilts. But no Scotsman would use a kilt as > everyday wear in the late nineteenth century, unless they were making some > kind of point. By the 1890's we had the telephone, the telegram, and the > railway. As others have said, kilts are expensive, and are kept for > ceremonial and dress wear. Scotsmen don't generally declare their > nationality until they open their mouths, and my friend (a Macrae married > to a Malcolm) went to an English boarding school, so sometimes not even then! > Lords and ladies abound in Scotland (the late Queen Mother was a Scot, > daughter of the Earl of Strathmore). If you want specific titles, you > should be able to find some on the Debrett's website. There are some > differences between Scottish and English nobility, mainly in the area of > inheritance and the title of 'Master,' but generally speaking, the usage is > similar. > > Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT > The latest Richard and Rose adventure, HARLEY STREET, is here! > http://www.novelbooksinc.com/>Novelbooks Inc. > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 18:34:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46MYvMx004349 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 18:34:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46MXUmB013301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 16:33:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46MWlJd076011; Thu, 6 May 2004 16:32:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i46MWiJd075917 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 16:32:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCnPeU0cBpBqpMeOoT4DayC7SzRFQpty2Bw== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JUYV7CBC; Thu, 06 May 2004 15:32:12 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 17:32:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts Message-ID: <20040506.173250.-7444673.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-11,13-15 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hehehehe....sorry that's my RenFaire character creeping out to play. I play Philadelphia Carey, Lady Scrope of Bolton. Her father was Henry Carey, Lord Hunsdon, Warden of the Western Marches and Commander of Berwick and her husband and father-in-law (The Lords Scrope of Bolton) were pretty much hereditary Wardens of the Eastern Marches and Commanders of Carlisle so to my mind the lands ARE Debatable.....very Debatable! Karen (identity crisis? what identity crisis?) On Thu, 6 May 2004 21:22:14 +0100 Jean Waddie writes: > I don't think they were "Debateable Lands" by the end of the 19th > century. We were really pretty civilised by then, you know ;-) > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 19:18:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46NHxMx004477 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 19:17:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46NHMmB017266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 17:17:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46NHIJd005358; Thu, 6 May 2004 17:17:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46NHGJd005282 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 17:17:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from FyneHats2@aol.com) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.15.2843f9ca (3948) for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 19:17:04 -0400 (EDT) From: FyneHats2@aol.com Message-ID: <15.2843f9ca.2dcc2170@aol.com> Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:17:04 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6024 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I > Try these sites and see if > you can find something more in line with what you were picturing: > > http://www.lafnmoon.com/ > http://www.pastpatterns.com/ > http://www.alteryears.com/ > http://www.patternsoftime.com > Also if you are looking for a later period (1870-1900) try www.trulyvictorian.com Heather and Laura MacNaughton have developed some wonderful Victorian patterns for hoops and bustle periods. They are very helpful on the phone as well. Good luck. Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity Period Headgear for Past Ages www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 19:26:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i46NQeMx004503 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 19:26:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46NQ5mB018103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 17:26:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i46NQ5Jd010932; Thu, 6 May 2004 17:26:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50701.mail.yahoo.com (web50701.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i46NQ3Jd010863 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 17:26:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20040506232558.78760.qmail@web50701.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.49.146.76] by web50701.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 06 May 2004 19:25:58 EDT Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:25:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405062053.i46KrVJd003426@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: source for silk grosgrain ribbon? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Claudine, Find a company that sells Mokuba Ribbon. They deal predominately in Silk or milk protein derivative ribbon products. It's impossible to tell the difference between the two by look and feel. Kathy Subject: [h-cost] source for silk grosgrain ribbon? Does anyone have a source, online or catalogue, for silk grosgrain ribbon? Google searches aren't coming up with much. I'm looking for colors but white will do, in 7/8" or wider. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 20:19:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i470JmMx004634 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 20:19:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i470J5mB021734 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 18:19:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i470IqJd038611; Thu, 6 May 2004 18:18:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i470ImJd038531 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 18:18:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 698864264B for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 19:37:11 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <409AD962.8070503@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 19:33:38 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts References: <20040506.121043.4282.28579@webmail15.nyc.untd.com> <6.0.0.14.0.20040506220747.0236d168@pop.ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.14.0.20040506220747.0236d168@pop.ntlworld.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lynne Connolly wrote: > I nearly choked when someone described Lancashire as being 'near > Scotland.' Take it from a resident. It isn't. > Your borders are what, approximately 100km apart? That's about the distance my husband drives to work each morning. To us Americans, you are quite "near", indeed. :) Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 20:37:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i470b4Mx004667 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 20:37:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i470ZMmB022732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 18:35:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i470ZLJd046992; Thu, 6 May 2004 18:35:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from queue2-svc.ntlworld.com (queue2-win.server.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i470ZEJd046910 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 18:35:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com) Received: from acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com ([81.109.62.241]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040506184939.HZV22110.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com> for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 19:49:39 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20040506195017.0238d9b8@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 19:50:30 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.0.14.0.20040506162405.02375af8@pop.ntlworld.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1FD3447C; boundary="=======3CD45501=======" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======3CD45501======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1FD3447C; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 16:41 06/05/2004 Sylvia said >So would it have been worn around 1890 by anyone? Yes. John Brown wore one. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT The latest Richard and Rose adventure, HARLEY STREET, is here! http://www.novelbooksinc.com/>Novelbooks Inc. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ --=======3CD45501======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======3CD45501=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 20:55:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i470t4Mx004707 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 20:55:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i470sZmB024014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 18:54:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i470sVJd056503; Thu, 6 May 2004 18:54:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i470sTJd056489 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 18:54:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.87] (p23.3c02.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.87]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i470rNN25417 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 18:53:23 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 18:35:43 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts From: Sylvia To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.14.0.20040506195017.0238d9b8@pop.ntlworld.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Who's John Brown? > From: Lynne Connolly > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 19:50:30 +0100 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts > > On 16:41 06/05/2004 Sylvia said >> So would it have been worn around 1890 by anyone? > > Yes. John Brown wore one. > > > Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT > The latest Richard and Rose adventure, HARLEY STREET, is here! > http://www.novelbooksinc.com/>Novelbooks Inc. > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 22:26:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i472QkMx005017 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:26:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i472Q6mB028717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 20:26:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i472PwJd010362; Thu, 6 May 2004 20:25:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i472PuJd010338 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 20:25:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 3434C5CC352; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:26:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0510.floodcity.net [198.93.213.2]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9889E5CC115 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <409AF350.881123C5@floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 22:24:16 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass References: <15d.3445e150.2dcb1971@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com wrote: > First I just wanted to say that I thought Carolann's post did an > excellent job of covering exactly this question. Much of the > information in Terese's post about what qualified as 19th century > "flashy" was simply inaccurate, and I think Carolann did a great job > of clearing that up. I don't think it was meant to be at all hard on > Terese, but with all due respect, if you don't actually *know* what > constitutes period accuracy - or if most of what you do know has come > from movies or TV - it's probably best to let others answer a question > like that, rather than put forth information that may lead people in > the wrong direction. > A conservative Christian woman from Boston, dressing nicely and > modestly, could very easily have worn a deep red gown with feathers > on her hat. I think what Carolann was trying to do was keep you from > feeling like you're limited to gray silk from your nose to your toes, > if you want an accurate presentation. I see, I didn't understand what she was trying to say. thank you for clarifying that. > > Moving on: > > "when I began looking for a pattern for my dress, the major pattern > books, (simp, Butterick and MCcalls) > Your instincts are already serving you extremely well. There are very few > commercial type patterns from those companies, that are worth the paper they're > printed on from an historical-accuracy standpoint. Try these sites and see if > you can find something more in line with what you were picturing: > > http://www.lafnmoon.com/ > http://www.pastpatterns.com/ > http://www.alteryears.com/ > http://www.patternsoftime.com I really like the skirts on http://www.patternsoftime.com/cat112.html but to be practical maybe I should stick with something more simple like the walking skirt on the previous page. I guess that wouldn't have been acceptable to wear to church at that time, but I imagine it will still be nice for church now days. > BUSTLE Each (Bustle era) had its own distinct characteristics, and you might find that one > or the other suits the look that you are wanting better. Here's a great site > with information on both: > > http://www.fashion-era.com/bustles.htm oops, this is way to exagerated for me. obviously I need to think this out again. Maybe a bustle isn't what I want after all. I think I just want the extra fullness in back, since I already HAVE fullness in back, if you know what I mean. I surely don't want to add MORE butt, I want to make the butt I do have look like a fashion statement as it were. Well, I would say it is back to the drawing board, but now I have some pictures to work from. thanks very much for all the sites. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 23:02:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4732dMx005169 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 23:02:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47326mB001189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 21:02:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47322Jd026989; Thu, 6 May 2004 21:02:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4731wJd026947 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 21:01:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 534F913E5A6 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 03:01:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 86495-01 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 03:01:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 1E96213D7A5; Fri, 7 May 2004 03:01:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust188.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.188]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B331613DBF9 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 03:01:43 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <066e01c433df$d5db7730$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040506.140226.5856.37463@webmail08.lax.untd.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost]1890s corsets (was: CW stays/corsets) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 22:03:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: > Thanks for the corset innfo. I will be making the corset for the > foundation of making the mid-1890'2 dress in the seepia print that > I posted at www.oldwaylane.net/ukrainian/html > I am looking to make a corset with a longer torso, to the hips, if > possible. You might want to make one of the corset patterns available here: http://www.agelesspatterns.com although most of these could be considered advanced, and not all are multi-sized. Some good choices would be: #1104M, #1061M (if you have narrow hips), #1062M, #1288, #1318M, and #1520 (probably closest to what she's wearing; spoon busks are available from: http://www.farthingales.on.ca/busks.php ) If you don't have much experience working from these kinds of patterns, you might find it helpful to order a corset pattern with good, modern directions, and go by that for your actual construction, while using the accurate pattern pieces for the pattern itself. Farthingales also sells an instruction video on how to fit a Victorian corset, which you might find useful: http://www.farthingales.on.ca/patterns.php I haven't seen it, but I've heard good reviews. >From the shape seen in the photo, it looks like she's wearing a corset at least 5-10 years out of date, if not more. However, she's obviously wearing a whooole lot of petticoats, so it's a bit hard to tell for sure! Anyway, you may want to keep this in mind when choosing a pattern. [E's basic corsetmaking tips: 1. Baste, baste, baste! Especially when putting the main body pieces together before you machine sew them. This makes a HUGE difference when it comes to corsetmaking. 2. Grommets--the jagged edged metal eyelets are pretty much worthless, and should never have been invented. Ahem. 3. Before sewing the bone casings, try it on. Put strips of masking tape on the corset where the bone casings should go, and use that as a guide rather than the pattern. Also, don't sew everything shut until you've tried it on with the bones in place! Bone placement is hugely important, and a lot easier to fix before you bind it.] -E (P.S.--I'm in the "I'm pretty sure those are pockets" camp.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 23:05:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4735RMx005193 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 23:05:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4733bmB001311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 21:03:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4733bJd027734; Thu, 6 May 2004 21:03:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav12.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4733XJd027679 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 21:03:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 6 May 2004 20:03:28 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.34 by bay1-dav12.adinternal.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 07 May 2004 03:03:28 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.34] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <15d.3445e150.2dcb1971@aol.com> <409AF350.881123C5@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 23:03:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 May 2004 03:03:28.0635 (UTC) FILETIME=[DF10A4B0:01C433DF] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO #904 is a polonaise from the 1880's it has a gathered over tunic that can be really full at the back by adding a bustle pad or leaving it without and it is floofy but not overdone. I've made this up several times (the current one is in a bright red plaid) and it is a REALLY easy pattern. I also have the full butt issue (pulling it off thanks to Curves now but still) and the princess polonaise seems to be just the look. http://swapking.com/hats/past_patterns_1890.htm ============================= Tupperware Party!! http://snipurl.com/5yj4 http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= > oops, this is way to exagerated for me. obviously I need to think this > out again. Maybe a bustle isn't what I want after all. I think I > just want the extra fullness in back, since I already HAVE fullness in > back, if you know what I mean. I surely don't want to add MORE butt, I > want to make the butt I do have look like a fashion statement as it > were. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 6 23:41:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i473fPMx005315 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 23:41:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i473ermB004096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 21:40:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i473efJd047265; Thu, 6 May 2004 21:40:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i473edJd047226 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 21:40:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.149] (pm5-149.eos.net [205.133.149.149]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i473eZkG026819 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 23:40:36 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 23:39:22 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200405070304.i4734UJe028219@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: John Brown X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I assume you're not talking about the John Brown whose "body lies a-mouldrin' in the grave." Can't think why he'd wear a kilt. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 00:16:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i474GuMx005513 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 00:16:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474GLmB006209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 22:16:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474GIJd064450; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:16:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav46.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474GGJd064384 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:16:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 6 May 2004 21:16:10 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.34 by bay1-dav46.adinternal.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 07 May 2004 04:16:10 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.34] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: John Brown Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 00:16:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 May 2004 04:16:10.0822 (UTC) FILETIME=[07218E60:01C433EA] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Queen Victoria's John Brown. Her highland servant who had a very high place in Victoria's life. When he died she directed a statue to built. When SHE died Edward ordered the statue pulled down. John Brown was far too big for his britches for Edward's taste. ============================= Tupperware Party!! http://snipurl.com/5yj4 http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:39 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: John Brown > > I assume you're not talking about the John Brown whose "body lies > a-mouldrin' in the grave." Can't think why he'd wear a kilt. > > Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 00:18:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i474I1Mx005516 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 00:18:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474HVmB006282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 22:17:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474HUJd064984; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:17:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav38.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.95]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474HQJd064936 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:17:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 6 May 2004 21:17:20 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.34 by bay1-dav38.adinternal.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 07 May 2004 04:17:20 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.34] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: John Brown Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 00:17:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 May 2004 04:17:20.0593 (UTC) FILETIME=[30B7C410:01C433EA] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh and to amend. John Brown was hevily disliked by many Great British peoples and the Queen was derided and hissed in public along with being called"Mrs. Brown" ============================= Tupperware Party!! http://snipurl.com/5yj4 http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:39 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: John Brown > > I assume you're not talking about the John Brown whose "body lies > a-mouldrin' in the grave." Can't think why he'd wear a kilt. > > Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 00:24:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i474O8Mx005533 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 00:24:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474MOmB006619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 22:22:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474MOJd067218; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:22:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474MLJd067171 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:22:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1c7.18c3dddc (4214) for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 00:22:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1c7.18c3dddc.2dcc68f6@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 00:22:14 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: John Brown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/6/04 10:41:38 PM Central Daylight Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: I assume you're not talking about the John Brown whose "body lies a-mouldrin' in the grave." Can't think why he'd wear a kilt. Gail Finke LOL! I think the reference was to the John Brown who was the personal servant to Queen Victoria. A different fellow than the one who led the raid on Harper's Ferry. -Tiffany Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 00:24:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i474OlMx005536 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 00:24:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474OImB006715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 22:24:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474OHJd068027; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:24:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474OFJd067974 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:24:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.133.2ea3f5dc (4214) for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 00:24:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <133.2ea3f5dc.2dcc6960@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 00:24:00 EDT Subject: [h-cost] Re: John Brown - drat that song. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5017 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Now I'm going to have it STUCK IN MY HEAD for DAYS!!!! ::pulling hair out!!!:: -Tiffany Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 00:36:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i474acMx005576 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 00:36:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474a6mB007585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 22:36:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474a5Jd073575; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:36:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474a3Jd073559 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:36:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-87-66.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.87.66]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i474YZT2021859 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 21:34:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040506213505.00ca9f00@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 21:37:40 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: John Brown - drat that song. In-Reply-To: <133.2ea3f5dc.2dcc6960@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Now I'm going to have it STUCK IN MY HEAD for DAYS!!!! > >::pulling hair out!!!:: Have you ever been to Disneyland (the one in California)? There's a song on one of the rides there which folks in California threaten each other with when any other song gets stuck in their heads. (Hint to Californians - it's the ride with hundreds of singing costumed dolls in it). CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 00:43:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i474hmMx005606 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 00:43:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474gjmB007935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 22:42:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474gdJd076481; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:42:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474gZJd076428 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:42:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-135-62.client.comcast.net [24.21.135.62]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i474gTU09180 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 00:42:29 -0400 Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 21:45:39 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: John Brown - drat that song. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <4.1.20040506213505.00ca9f00@mail.frys.com> Message-Id: <6391B3F7-9FE1-11D8-933D-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Would that possibly be "It's a Small World?" *ever so innocent look* Althea On Thursday, May 6, 2004, at 09:37 PM, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >> Now I'm going to have it STUCK IN MY HEAD for DAYS!!!! >> >> ::pulling hair out!!!:: > > Have you ever been to Disneyland (the one in California)? There's a > song > on one of the rides there which folks in California threaten each other > with when any other song gets stuck in their heads. (Hint to > Californians > - it's the ride with hundreds of singing costumed dolls in it). > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Public Relations Manager Sauron/Voldemort 2004 Bush/Cheney - Bringing Bigotry back to the Constitution. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 00:47:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i474ljMx005617 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 00:47:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474lGmB008174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 22:47:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474lFJd078634; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:47:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474lDJd078554 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:47:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m204.in-tch.com [216.166.191.204]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i474NPn06981 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:23:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <409B15A5.7070703@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 22:50:45 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen's Stitch References: <001301c4337f$e60ea880$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <001301c4337f$e60ea880$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can only think of a couple of distinctly queen-needlework combinations. Besides the ideas about the origins of the the Bayeaux Tapestries. One would be Mary Stuart (there's actually a whole book out about her embroidery). She did all kinds of different embroidery..... The other would be Mary III? (of "William and Mary"), I *think.* One of the late 17th c. British royals that's thought of in pairs, at any rate. IIRC, she was known for doing some sort of lacework (not my time period, so I'm vague on the specifics, sorry). Dunno about queens from non-English speaking countries. --sue Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Ah, Thankyou! My project is taking on a life of its own. Just picked up 4 > more books from our stupendous annual Library sale, and found the pattern I > wanted. > I am now wondering the identification format for the pattern that is called > "Queens" in "Fitting and Proper". It plainly differs from the two or three > names (like Algerian eye, Flat laid, and embellished daisy) that are > garnered from the 8 or 10 volumes I have at hand. > Also of interest, is the origin of 'Queens'. For those of you who do the > decorative arts in periods before 1750, is there a particular Queen who did > needlepoint embroiderie? (besides the Norman conquest canvases? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 00:57:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i474v1Mx005668 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 00:57:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474uXmB008722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 22:56:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474uWJd082916; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:56:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474uUJd082896 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:56:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m204.in-tch.com [216.166.191.204]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i474Wnn10410 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:32:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <409B17D9.7070009@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 23:00:09 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: John Brown References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And there's even a movie about it. Kinda interesting. Dame Judy Dench and Billy Connolly star in it, if I'm not mistaken.... --sue Bice wrote: > Oh and to amend. John Brown was hevily disliked by many Great British > peoples and the Queen was derided and hissed in public along with being > called"Mrs. Brown" > ============================= > Tupperware Party!! > http://snipurl.com/5yj4 > http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie > ============================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gail & Scott Finke" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:39 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Re: John Brown > > > >>I assume you're not talking about the John Brown whose "body lies >>a-mouldrin' in the grave." Can't think why he'd wear a kilt. >> >>Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 00:59:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i474x0Mx005688 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 00:59:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474wSmB008807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 22:58:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474wRJd083682; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:58:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i474wOJd083666 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:58:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m204.in-tch.com [216.166.191.204]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i474Yin11093 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:34:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <409B184B.4080003@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 23:02:03 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: John Brown - drat that song. References: <4.1.20040506213505.00ca9f00@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.1.20040506213505.00ca9f00@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ahhhhh!!!! --sue, stuck with "it's a small world after all....." going in an endless loop...... Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote/quoted: >>Now I'm going to have it STUCK IN MY HEAD for DAYS!!!! >> >>::pulling hair out!!!:: > > > Have you ever been to Disneyland (the one in California)? There's a song > on one of the rides there which folks in California threaten each other > with when any other song gets stuck in their heads. (Hint to Californians > - it's the ride with hundreds of singing costumed dolls in it). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 01:16:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i475GuMx005809 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 01:16:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i475GTmB009761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 23:16:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i475GRJd091113; Thu, 6 May 2004 23:16:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i475GPJd091051 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 23:16:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20040507051620013002i00te>; Fri, 7 May 2004 05:16:20 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 01:18:59 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: source for silk grosgrain ribbon? From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040506232558.78760.qmail@web50701.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO JKM carries Mokuba, and some other all-silk ribbons. http://www.jkmribbon.com/ You have to register to view prices, but registration leads to nothing worse than occasional e-mailed new product announcements. Lauren > From: Kathy Page > > Claudine, > Find a company that sells Mokuba Ribbon. They deal predominately in Silk or > milk protein derivative ribbon products. It's impossible to tell the > difference between the two by look and feel. > > Kathy > > > Subject: [h-cost] source for silk grosgrain ribbon? > Does anyone have a source, online or catalogue, for > silk grosgrain ribbon? Google searches aren't coming > up with much. I'm looking for colors but white will > do, in 7/8" or wider. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 01:22:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i475MIMx005827 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 01:22:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i475KZmB009926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 May 2004 23:20:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i475KXJd093143; Thu, 6 May 2004 23:20:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i475KVJd093126 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 23:20:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-87-66.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.87.66]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i475KPVX018401 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 22:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040506221634.0283a9c0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 22:22:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: John Brown - drat that song. In-Reply-To: <409B184B.4080003@in-tch.com> References: <4.1.20040506213505.00ca9f00@mail.frys.com> <4.1.20040506213505.00ca9f00@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Ahhhhh!!!! >--sue, stuck with "it's a small world after all....." going in an >endless loop...... Oh, then you have been to Disneyland. Don't those dolls have some great costumes? Very 1960s, but worth the ride - once. (In Southern CA one hears horror stories of people being on that ride when the transportation part breaks down but not the sound, and they get stuck for long periods of time...) CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 02:27:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i476QxMx017155 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 02:27:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i476QLmB012938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 00:26:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i476QIJd022523; Fri, 7 May 2004 00:26:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net (starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i476QGJd022511 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 00:26:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.21.27.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.27] helo=HELENPINTO) by starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BLyoJ-0000je-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 06 May 2004 23:26:15 -0700 Message-ID: <02f901c433fc$2fc91920$643c9b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.1.20040506213505.00ca9f00@mail.frys.com><4.1.20040506213505.00ca9f00@mail.frys.com> <4.1.20040506221634.0283a9c0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: John Brown - drat that song. Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 02:26:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef2de38d1fe0f388db6eb719b88c069c03350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Been there, done that; it happens in Florida, too. I don't care if it's air-conditioned and you get to sit down and there's no line- that story worked once, but I won't get fooled again. Besides, I maxed out on it when I was a kid and it was at the '64-65 NYC World's Fair (which explains the '60's costumes on the dolls- obligatory costume content). I used to cycle over a couple of times a week, chain my bike to a fence, and with a quarter, a milk carton coupon, and a nice old lady who'd swear we were her grandkids, you could have the run of the place. I've also been stuck for more than an hour in Splash Mountain in the end chamber where all the animals from "Song of the South" sing "Zip-a-dee-doo-dah" over and over and over and over and... And then there's the "Prince Ali" song from Aladdin that was played before, during, and after the parade; people waiting in bathroom lines hours later were still singing the songs, and humming where they forgot the words. Everything at Disneyworld has a soundtrack. But I go back, anyway, thrill ride junkie that I am. -Helen/Aidan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 1:22 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: John Brown - drat that song. > >Ahhhhh!!!! > >--sue, stuck with "it's a small world after all....." going in an > >endless loop...... > > Oh, then you have been to Disneyland. Don't those dolls have some great > costumes? Very 1960s, but worth the ride - once. (In Southern CA one > hears horror stories of people being on that ride when the transportation > part breaks down but not the sound, and they get stuck for long periods of > time...) > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 03:59:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i477xfMx032258 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 03:59:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i477wsmB016796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 01:58:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i477wlJd062802; Fri, 7 May 2004 01:58:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i477wiJd062784 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 01:58:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i477whT12262.; Fri, 7 May 2004 08:58:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 07 May 2004 08:58:43 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 08:58:19 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The expatriate Scotsman is a frequent figure in fact and fiction over the past 2 centuries (e.g.Donald Farfrae in "The Mayor of Casterbridge"). If your mill with a Scottish boss is in Lancashire there is no reason to think of the supporting characters as also being Scottish. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 07:00:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i47B0cMx000847 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 07:00:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47AwdmB024871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 04:58:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47AwaJd037334; Fri, 7 May 2004 04:58:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta04-svc.ntlworld.com (mta04-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47AwYJd037302 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 04:58:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com) Received: from acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com ([81.109.62.241]) by mta04-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040507105755.IUVI2453.mta04-svc.ntlworld.com@acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com> for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 11:57:55 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20040507115816.023468e0@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 11:58:28 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.0.14.0.20040506195017.0238d9b8@pop.ntlworld.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-40202446; boundary="=======DB6693=======" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======DB6693======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-40202446; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 01:35 07/05/2004 Sylvia said >Who's John Brown? Queen Victoria's gillie and friend. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT The latest Richard and Rose adventure, HARLEY STREET, is here! http://www.novelbooksinc.com/>Novelbooks Inc. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ --=======DB6693======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======DB6693=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 07:05:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i47B5XMx000868 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 07:05:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47B3mmB025143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 05:03:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47B3fJd039370; Fri, 7 May 2004 05:03:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta04-svc.ntlworld.com (mta04-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47B3dJd039326 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 05:03:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com) Received: from acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com ([81.109.62.241]) by mta04-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040507110300.JGGH2453.mta04-svc.ntlworld.com@acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com> for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 12:03:00 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20040507115927.023435e0@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 12:03:33 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.0.14.0.20040506220747.0236d168@pop.ntlworld.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-40202446; boundary="=======1DB5271E=======" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======1DB5271E======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-40202446; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 21:55 06/05/2004 Sylvia said >How far away is it? Two counties away. A few hundred miles. Scotland is another country (sorry about that - couldn't resist!) It's a different lifestyle, a different experience. While it might be fairly straightforward to fly there from Liverpool Airport, it would take 3 hours or more to drive there. Depending on which bit you want to get to, of course! Here's a more detailed map, so you get the idea. http://www.multimap.co.uk I live near Liverpool: we're about halfway between London and Edinburgh, roughly speaking. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT The latest Richard and Rose adventure, HARLEY STREET, is here! http://www.novelbooksinc.com/>Novelbooks Inc. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ --=======1DB5271E======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======1DB5271E=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 07:47:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i47BlFMx000979 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 07:47:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47BiAmB027167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 05:44:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47Bi8Jd057683; Fri, 7 May 2004 05:44:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m03.lax.untd.com (m03.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i47Bi6Jd057618 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 05:44:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa58@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 9q05Lp5l6pU14shT5B1ERgsyzDtuCuBLxKCVbPCYQRzhimG/5Qs9wg== Received: (from lisa58@juno.com) by m03.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JU2BGG23; Fri, 07 May 2004 04:43:38 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 07:35:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost]1890s corsets (was: CW stays/corsets) Message-ID: <20040507.074102.-433213.4.lisa58@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-4,7-8 From: Lisa A Ashton X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Appreciate the comments, hints, and corset websites. I wouldn't consider myself a beginner, exactly; I have made several corsets from my 1860's pattern, and a several Tudor style corsets. But I wil try to get someone to help me with the fitting aspects you describe. I'm still tired from working last night til past 3 am, (it's only about 7:30 here, I had to get up to get my daughter to school), but I"ll check the websites within a few days. Yours in costuming, Lisa A. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 08:28:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i47CS7Mx001150 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 08:28:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47COqmB029474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 06:24:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47COoJd075873; Fri, 7 May 2004 06:24:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from providenceday.org (treebeard.providenceday.org [66.193.73.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47COmJd075816 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 06:24:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from grace.morris@providenceday.org) Received: from [172.20.1.3] (HELO providenceday.org) by providenceday.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 1274679 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 07 May 2004 08:25:58 -0400 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:24:20 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Grace Morris To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <77624FA6-A021-11D8-8DB6-000393DA0BCC@providenceday.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] contacting curators X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I will be going to Burgos late next month, and I would like to be able to talk to a curator/get a private tour/whatever. I know that some of you have done this at other museums. Does anyone have a good letter of introduction and request that has helped to accomplish this? Or any helpful hints? Grace/Jessamyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 09:25:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i47DPMMx001371 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:25:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47DOfmB003074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 07:24:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47DObJd005475; Fri, 7 May 2004 07:24:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14004.mail.yahoo.com (web14004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i47DOYJd005451 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 07:24:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040507132434.29182.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 May 2004 14:24:34 BST Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:24:34 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: - drat that song. To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <6391B3F7-9FE1-11D8-933D-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Even worse... now I have that song from Shrek in my head. "welcome to Dulac its a perfect place, here we have some rules let us lay them down" --- Althea Turner wrote: > Would that possibly be "It's a Small World?" > > *ever so innocent look* > > Althea > > > On Thursday, May 6, 2004, at 09:37 PM, Carolyn Kayta > Barrows wrote: > > >> Now I'm going to have it STUCK IN MY HEAD for > DAYS!!!! > >> > >> ::pulling hair out!!!:: > > > > Have you ever been to Disneyland (the one in > California)? There's a > > song > > on one of the rides there which folks in > California threaten each other > > with when any other song gets stuck in their > heads. (Hint to > > Californians > > - it's the ride with hundreds of singing costumed > dolls in it). > > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > > www.FunStuft.com > > > > //// \\\ > > ////-@@\\\ > > (((( 7 ))) > > ((( <> )))) > > ) (((((( > > /----\ /---\)) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > Althea Turner > *** althea@alfalfapress.com > *** http://www.alfalfapress.com > > Public Relations Manager > Sauron/Voldemort 2004 > > Bush/Cheney - Bringing Bigotry back to the > Constitution. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 09:36:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i47DaHMx001446 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:36:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47DZimB003770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 07:35:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47DZfJd011164; Fri, 7 May 2004 07:35:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47DZdJd011120 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 07:35:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 32ADC5CC424; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0042.floodcity.net [198.93.211.42]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7719D5CC409 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:35:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <409B904F.F0AC3F43@floodcity.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 09:34:07 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass References: <15d.3445e150.2dcb1971@aol.com> <409AF350.881123C5@floodcity.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO thanks, did you use all those ruffles on your skirt? seems kinda fussy to me. Kitty Bice wrote: > > #904 is a polonaise from the 1880's it has a gathered over tunic that can be > really full at the back by adding a bustle pad or leaving it without and it > is floofy but not overdone. I've made this up several times (the current one > is in a bright red plaid) and it is a REALLY easy pattern. I also have the > full butt issue (pulling it off thanks to Curves now but still) and the > princess polonaise seems to be just the look. > http://swapking.com/hats/past_patterns_1890.htm > ============================= > Tupperware Party!! > http://snipurl.com/5yj4 > http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie > ============================= > > oops, this is way to exagerated for me. obviously I need to think this > > out again. Maybe a bustle isn't what I want after all. I think I > > just want the extra fullness in back, since I already HAVE fullness in > > back, if you know what I mean. I surely don't want to add MORE butt, I > > want to make the butt I do have look like a fashion statement as it > > were. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 09:40:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i47DeWMx001461 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:40:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47DcgmB004030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 07:38:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47DcgJd012736; Fri, 7 May 2004 07:38:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i47DcdJd012701 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 07:38:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040507133838.17127.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 May 2004 14:38:38 BST Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:38:38 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.14.0.20040506220747.0236d168@pop.ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO that's a matter of perspective. Its only a Sunday drive for Texans. > I nearly choked when someone described Lancashire as > being 'near Scotland.' > Take it from a resident. It isn't.< But I agree that kilts were basically special occasion wear by the late 19th century. ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 10:43:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i47EhSMx001855 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 10:43:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47EfBmB008745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 08:41:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47EewJd048625; Fri, 7 May 2004 08:40:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.136.30.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47EeUJd048311 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 08:40:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cbucheger@paclp.com) Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com (SMTPD32-8.11) id AFD87C1004A; Fri, 07 May 2004 09:40:24 -0500 Received: From PACws22 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1083940822360; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:40:22 -0500 Message-ID: <007101c4343f$0a4e3ca0$1d64a8c0@algx> From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040507132434.29182.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: - drat that song. Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:24:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I like that one much better... > Even worse... now I have that song from Shrek in my > head. > "welcome to Dulac its a perfect place, here we have > some rules let us lay them down" > > > --- Althea Turner wrote: > > Would that possibly be "It's a Small World?" > > > > *ever so innocent look* > > > > Althea > > > > > > On Thursday, May 6, 2004, at 09:37 PM, Carolyn Kayta > > Barrows wrote: > > > > >> Now I'm going to have it STUCK IN MY HEAD for > > DAYS!!!! > > >> > > >> ::pulling hair out!!!:: > > > > > > Have you ever been to Disneyland (the one in > > California)? There's a > > > song > > > on one of the rides there which folks in > > California threaten each other > > > with when any other song gets stuck in their > > heads. (Hint to > > > Californians > > > - it's the ride with hundreds of singing costumed > > dolls in it). > > > > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > > > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > > > www.FunStuft.com > > > > > > //// \\\ > > > ////-@@\\\ > > > (((( 7 ))) > > > ((( <> )))) > > > ) (((((( > > > /----\ /---\)) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > Althea Turner > > *** althea@alfalfapress.com > > *** http://www.alfalfapress.com > > > > Public Relations Manager > > Sauron/Voldemort 2004 > > > > Bush/Cheney - Bringing Bigotry back to the > > Constitution. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ===== > Catalina > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 11:05:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i47F5sMx001966 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 11:05:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47F45mB010712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 09:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47F41Jd064396; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:04:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47F3wJd064364 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:03:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-87-66.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.87.66]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i47F3hVX018875 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 08:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040507075903.01d451d0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 08:04:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch In-Reply-To: <001701c432b5$c4a2f5e0$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I have a hankering to do the chatelaine pin cushion found in the back of >"Fitting and Proper". I have a nice old brass cafe curtain ring with eye >that I think will make a good collar. But I cannot seem to find directions >for Queen's stitch needlepoint. Any one have a citation or can describe how >this stitch is done? I stand corrected re. this stitch, and the other person got it right. It's in my book called Plain and Fancy, which has many examples of American needlework from the mid-1700s to the early 1800s from the Wintherthur museum. From their illustration, I'm guessing the needle motions will be the same as with Roumanian couching, but the square shape is what makes it distinctive. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 11:11:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i47FBEMx006255 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 11:11:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47FAemB011254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 09:10:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47FAbJd069066; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:10:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47FAQJd068927 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:10:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from mail.ntw.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i47F9HN07460 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:09:17 -0600 Received: from 206.124.3.200 (SquirrelMail authenticated user sylvia) by mail.ntw.net with HTTP; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:09:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <49322.206.124.3.200.1083942557.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <4.1.20040506213505.00ca9f00@mail.frys.com> References: <133.2ea3f5dc.2dcc6960@aol.com> <4.1.20040506213505.00ca9f00@mail.frys.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:09:17 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: John Brown - drat that song. From: sylvia@ntw.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Have you ever been to Disneyland (the one in California)? There's a song > on one of the rides there which folks in California threaten each other > with when any other song gets stuck in their heads. (Hint to Californians > - it's the ride with hundreds of singing costumed dolls in it). Yes!! Even worse than going on that ride is getting stuck in it, as I did, for 45 minutes! We were about to climb out of the boat and try to find our way outside after being forced to listen to that song over and over again without cease. I think that was my last trip to Disneyland. Sylrog > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 11:19:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i47FJtMx006283 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 11:19:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47FJ7mB012013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 09:19:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47FJ4Jd075458; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:19:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47FJ1Jd075416 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:19:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from mail.ntw.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i47FHsN08040 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:17:54 -0600 Received: from 206.124.3.200 (SquirrelMail authenticated user sylvia) by mail.ntw.net with HTTP; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:17:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <49329.206.124.3.200.1083943074.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:17:54 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts From: sylvia@ntw.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO After rereading the play again, I agree. Only the mill owner and his family appear to be Scottish and none of them would be in kilts. I wanted to justify it because I thought it would be interesting to put at least on of the characters in a kilt, specifically a man who is of the upper class and who is a rather odd ball. There's no reference as to where he is from, so theoretically he could be Scottish, since Lancashire is close to the Scottish border. If someone is eccentric, I figure he could be somewhat inappropriately dressed. > The expatriate Scotsman is a frequent figure in fact and fiction over > the past 2 centuries (e.g.Donald Farfrae in "The Mayor of > Casterbridge"). If your mill with a Scottish boss is in Lancashire there > is no reason to think of the supporting characters as also being > Scottish. > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 11:24:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i47FOZMx006301 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 11:24:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47FNbmB012449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 09:23:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47FNXJd078815; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:23:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav17.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47FNIJd078532 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:23:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 7 May 2004 08:23:13 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.92 by bay1-dav17.adinternal.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 07 May 2004 15:23:13 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.92] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <15d.3445e150.2dcb1971@aol.com> <409AF350.881123C5@floodcity.net> <409B904F.F0AC3F43@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:23:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 May 2004 15:23:13.0388 (UTC) FILETIME=[36707AC0:01C43447] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well I did for the two versions. It gave the skirts added oomph. I did do one without but it didn't look the same at all. The polanise for this version is very dollike in nature and a bit fussy. But if you do the tunic in a bright shade or even a plaid like I did for the one and a plain white or even black skirt it looks really great. It also looks incredible in a lightweight velvet with no fuss just poufs and ruffles. ============================= Tupperware Party!! http://snipurl.com/5yj4 http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty Felton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass > thanks, did you use all those ruffles on your skirt? seems kinda fussy > to me. Kitty > > Bice wrote: > > > > #904 is a polonaise from the 1880's it has a gathered over tunic that can be > > really full at the back by adding a bustle pad or leaving it without and it > > is floofy but not overdone. I've made this up several times (the current one > > is in a bright red plaid) and it is a REALLY easy pattern. I also have the > > full butt issue (pulling it off thanks to Curves now but still) and the > > princess polonaise seems to be just the look. > > http://swapking.com/hats/past_patterns_1890.htm > > ============================= > > Tupperware Party!! > > http://snipurl.com/5yj4 > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie > > ============================= > > > oops, this is way to exagerated for me. obviously I need to think this > > > out again. Maybe a bustle isn't what I want after all. I think I > > > just want the extra fullness in back, since I already HAVE fullness in > > > back, if you know what I mean. I surely don't want to add MORE butt, I > > > want to make the butt I do have look like a fashion statement as it > > > were. > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 15:51:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i47JpSMx009617 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 15:51:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47JkJmB011114 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 13:46:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47Jk1Jd078124; Fri, 7 May 2004 13:46:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47JjuJd078014 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 13:45:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com) Received: from acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com ([81.109.62.241]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040506152320.CDPS5214.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com> for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 16:23:20 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20040506161750.02375d78@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 16:23:47 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] kilts In-Reply-To: <20040506.080823.9034.109079@webmail05.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-17243587; boundary="=======3083505E=======" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======3083505E======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-17243587; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 16:08 06/05/2004 seamstrix@juno.com said >Not only is Lancashire not the Highlands, it's not even in Scotland! It's >certainly in Northern England, but it's roughly parallel to Yorkshire. >Your folks would sound more Liverpuddlian than Highland....think 'All >Creatures Great and Small'. >Karen > >-- sylvia@ntw.net wrote: >Then play takes place in Lancashire. Is that the highlands?> I live in Lancashire. There are two counties between us and Scotland, and even more between us and the Highlands! "All Creatures Great and Small" is set in Yorkshire, not Lancashire. We are the county of the Beatles, of the great mills of the Industrial Revolution, of endeavour, of girls in white aprons and clogs, of Cottonopolis (Manchester), great black and white timbered buildings. Don't think of "All Creatures," or even "Last of the summer wine," think of the Beatles and Willy Russell, Rutherford and Mrs. Gaskell. Dear me, you'll have red roses and white roses thrashing each other to death before you know it! And if a man in a kilt ventures into our streets he can expect to be seriously molested! Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT The latest Richard and Rose adventure, HARLEY STREET, is here! http://www.novelbooksinc.com/>Novelbooks Inc. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ --=======3083505E======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======3083505E=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 16:28:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i47KSgMx009787 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 16:28:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47KRtmB015967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 14:27:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47KRoJd010599; Fri, 7 May 2004 14:27:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47KRjJd010432 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 14:27:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f6b.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.107]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 77A2026283A for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 22:27:37 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001801c43471$c1db9ac0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 22:27:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] seams in bodices X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i47KSgMx009787 Status: RO Hi, Can any of you explain to me why a boned bodice would have different seams than the outher material? Would it not have ben easyer in construktion, if the same seams was used? The wedding dress of Sophia Magdalena, 1766 did have a different cut for the heavily boned foundation, than the outher material. Not that i want to change this, but i thoaght it would be interresting to know why. I have succeded in using this pattern for the boned foundation, and have only made very little alterations. One og the things i have changed is the boning wich was very narrow strips of whalebones, and i use 0,75 cm. wide bones. When i have come further, i shall post you some pics! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 17:25:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i47LPcMx010088 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 17:25:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47LNBnR021540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 15:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47LITJd046495; Fri, 7 May 2004 15:18:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.83.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47LIEJd046318 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 15:18:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A43248306 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 17:18:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 30824-08 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 17:18:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D086B482E1 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 17:18:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <098101c43478$cc036170$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040507132434.29182.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> <007101c4343f$0a4e3ca0$1d64a8c0@algx> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: - drat that song. Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 17:18:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cyn Bucheger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:24 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: - drat that song. > I like that one much better... I like the theme from Sponge Bob Square Pants...or, as my 2 y.o. calls him, Pons Bob Wear Pants... Dianne > > > > > Even worse... now I have that song from Shrek in my > > head. > > "welcome to Dulac its a perfect place, here we have > > some rules let us lay them down" > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 17:43:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i47LheMx010154 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 17:43:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47Lh9mB023561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 15:43:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47Lh6Jd063287; Fri, 7 May 2004 15:43:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from thrednedlestrete.com (mail02.enterhost.com [69.93.13.234]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47Lh0Jd063147 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 15:43:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:42:54 -0500 Message-Id: <200405071642.AA42860800@thrednedlestrete.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] seams in bodices X-Mailer: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If the fabric was very thick, having staggered seams would eliminate bulk. I often stagger the seams in the arm hole facings of sleeveless shifts especially if I am using linen for so there are not four layers of fabric where the seams join together. A possibility. Lisa Sinervo ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Reply-To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 22:27:45 +0200 >Hi, >Can any of you explain to me why a boned bodice would have different seams than the outher material? >Would it not have ben easyer in construktion, if the same seams was used? >The wedding dress of Sophia Magdalena, 1766 did have a different cut for the heavily boned foundation, than the outher material. Not that i want to change this, but i thoaght it would be interresting to know why. >I have succeded in using this pattern for the boned foundation, and have only made very little alterations. One og the things i have changed is the boning wich was very narrow strips of whalebones, and i use 0,75 cm. wide bones. >When i have come further, i shall post you some pics! > >Bjarne > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 22:22:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i482MPMx012553 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 22:22:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i482LcmB023065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 20:21:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i482LQJd015150; Fri, 7 May 2004 20:21:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i482LOJd015077 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 20:21:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 690905CC293; Fri, 7 May 2004 22:21:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0378.floodcity.net [198.93.212.124]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06C1C5CC173 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 22:21:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <409C4398.A7EF1F7D@floodcity.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 22:19:04 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass References: <15d.3445e150.2dcb1971@aol.com> <409AF350.881123C5@floodcity.net> <409B904F.F0AC3F43@floodcity.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO and this would be middle class and conservative? Bice wrote: > > Well I did for the two versions. It gave the skirts added oomph. I did do > one without but it didn't look the same at all. The polanise for this > version is very dollike in nature and a bit fussy. But if you do the tunic > in a bright shade or even a plaid like I did for the one and a plain white > or even black skirt it looks really great. It also looks incredible in a > lightweight velvet with no fuss just poufs and ruffles. > ============================= > Tupperware Party!! > http://snipurl.com/5yj4 > http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie > ============================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kitty Felton" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:34 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass > > > thanks, did you use all those ruffles on your skirt? seems kinda fussy > > to me. Kitty > > > > Bice wrote: > > > > > > #904 is a polonaise from the 1880's it has a gathered over tunic that > can be > > > really full at the back by adding a bustle pad or leaving it without and > it > > > is floofy but not overdone. I've made this up several times (the current > one > > > is in a bright red plaid) and it is a REALLY easy pattern. I also have > the > > > full butt issue (pulling it off thanks to Curves now but still) and the > > > princess polonaise seems to be just the look. > > > http://swapking.com/hats/past_patterns_1890.htm > > > ============================= > > > Tupperware Party!! > > > http://snipurl.com/5yj4 > > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie > > > ============================= > > > > oops, this is way to exagerated for me. obviously I need to think > this > > > > out again. Maybe a bustle isn't what I want after all. I think I > > > > just want the extra fullness in back, since I already HAVE fullness in > > > > back, if you know what I mean. I surely don't want to add MORE butt, > I > > > > want to make the butt I do have look like a fashion statement as it > > > > were. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 7 22:23:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i482NiMx012568 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 22:23:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i482NGmB023179 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 May 2004 20:23:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i482NFJd015849; Fri, 7 May 2004 20:23:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i482NDJd015831 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 20:23:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claudine_on_the_net@yahoo.com) Received: from h-68-164-82-129.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.164.82.129] helo=yahoo.com) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BMHUe-0007bi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 07 May 2004 19:23:13 -0700 Message-ID: <409C4481.7050908@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 19:22:57 -0700 From: Claudine User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: source for silk grosgrain ribbon? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you, Kathy and Lauren, for the tips, but I haven't found quite what I'm looking for. I just want a simple grosgrain ribbon for facing a hem. I might settle for some rayon petersham (is petersham pretty stiff? I've never handled it before) or just bite my tongue and get some poly stuff from Jo-Ann. Claudine Lauren Walker wrote: > JKM carries Mokuba, and some other all-silk ribbons. > http://www.jkmribbon.com/ > You have to register to view prices, but registration leads to nothing worse > than occasional e-mailed new product announcements. > Lauren > > >>From: Kathy Page > > >>Claudine, >>Find a company that sells Mokuba Ribbon. They deal predominately in Silk or >>milk protein derivative ribbon products. It's impossible to tell the >>difference between the two by look and feel. >> >>Kathy >> >> >>Subject: [h-cost] source for silk grosgrain ribbon? >>Does anyone have a source, online or catalogue, for >>silk grosgrain ribbon? Google searches aren't coming >>up with much. I'm looking for colors but white will >>do, in 7/8" or wider. >> >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 08:43:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i48ChGMx009702 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 08:43:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48CfPmB025060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 06:41:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48CfGJd053263; Sat, 8 May 2004 06:41:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48CfEJd053231 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 06:41:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A56771006E; Sat, 08 May 2004 08:41:11 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.109]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 8 May 2004 08:41:10 -0400 Message-ID: <000701c434fa$969daa40$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <409C4481.7050908@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: source for silk grosgrain ribbon? Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 08:47:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 May 2004 12:41:11.0444 (UTC) FILETIME=[BE1F4D40:01C434F9] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was looking at my latest catalogue from Homesew.com yesterday and noted that their grosgrain is rayon and cotton! I think I remember that they have two widths and a small selection of colors. I buy notions and trims from them all the time and the quality and price sure beats Joann's. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claudine" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:22 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: source for silk grosgrain ribbon? > Thank you, Kathy and Lauren, for the tips, but I haven't found quite > what I'm looking for. I just want a simple grosgrain ribbon for facing a > hem. I might settle for some rayon petersham (is petersham pretty stiff? > I've never handled it before) or just bite my tongue and get some poly > stuff from Jo-Ann. > > > > Claudine > > Lauren Walker wrote: > > > JKM carries Mokuba, and some other all-silk ribbons. > > http://www.jkmribbon.com/ > > You have to register to view prices, but registration leads to nothing worse > > than occasional e-mailed new product announcements. > > Lauren > > > > > >>From: Kathy Page > > > > > >>Claudine, > >>Find a company that sells Mokuba Ribbon. They deal predominately in Silk or > >>milk protein derivative ribbon products. It's impossible to tell the > >>difference between the two by look and feel. > >> > >>Kathy > >> > >> > >>Subject: [h-cost] source for silk grosgrain ribbon? > >>Does anyone have a source, online or catalogue, for > >>silk grosgrain ribbon? Google searches aren't coming > >>up with much. I'm looking for colors but white will > >>do, in 7/8" or wider. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>--------------------------------- > >>Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > >>_______________________________________________ > >>h-costume mailing list > >>h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 08:59:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i48CxoMx009785 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 08:59:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48CuSmB025720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 06:56:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48CuRJd058391; Sat, 8 May 2004 06:56:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48CuPJd058378 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 06:56:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A8F9FE006E; Sat, 08 May 2004 08:56:25 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.109]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 8 May 2004 08:56:24 -0400 Message-ID: <002301c434fc$b97a00c0$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <409C4481.7050908@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: source for silk grosgrain ribbon? Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 09:02:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 May 2004 12:56:25.0142 (UTC) FILETIME=[DEBA8D60:01C434FB] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And re petersham, yes it is stiff, I have not seen it used for hems, but rather as concealed waist bands. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claudine" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:22 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: source for silk grosgrain ribbon? > Thank you, Kathy and Lauren, for the tips, but I haven't found quite > what I'm looking for. I just want a simple grosgrain ribbon for facing a > hem. I might settle for some rayon petersham (is petersham pretty stiff? > I've never handled it before) or just bite my tongue and get some poly > stuff from Jo-Ann. > > > > Claudine > > Lauren Walker wrote: > > > JKM carries Mokuba, and some other all-silk ribbons. > > http://www.jkmribbon.com/ > > You have to register to view prices, but registration leads to nothing worse > > than occasional e-mailed new product announcements. > > Lauren > > > > > >>From: Kathy Page > > > > > >>Claudine, > >>Find a company that sells Mokuba Ribbon. They deal predominately in Silk or > >>milk protein derivative ribbon products. It's impossible to tell the > >>difference between the two by look and feel. > >> > >>Kathy > >> > >> > >>Subject: [h-cost] source for silk grosgrain ribbon? > >>Does anyone have a source, online or catalogue, for > >>silk grosgrain ribbon? Google searches aren't coming > >>up with much. I'm looking for colors but white will > >>do, in 7/8" or wider. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>--------------------------------- > >>Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > >>_______________________________________________ > >>h-costume mailing list > >>h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 08:59:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i48CxpMx009788 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 08:59:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48Cs3mB025603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 06:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48Cs2Jd057497; Sat, 8 May 2004 06:54:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48Cs0Jd057478 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 06:54:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A868E8006E; Sat, 08 May 2004 08:54:00 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.109]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 8 May 2004 08:53:59 -0400 Message-ID: <001d01c434fc$62b8d5e0$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.1.20040507075903.01d451d0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 09:00:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 May 2004 12:54:00.0032 (UTC) FILETIME=[883C8600:01C434FB] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Two of the books I picked up at the library sale gave Queen stitch as was otherwise represented; the one you gave me is one of the variations of Algerian Eye stitch,(of which they show four variations, including the diamond shape and a fanshape). The pincushion in question is of the 18th C and definitely has the 'eye'. I must look for a copy of "Plain and Fancy" Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch > >I have a hankering to do the chatelaine pin cushion found in the back of > >"Fitting and Proper". I have a nice old brass cafe curtain ring with eye > >that I think will make a good collar. But I cannot seem to find directions > >for Queen's stitch needlepoint. Any one have a citation or can describe how > >this stitch is done? > > I stand corrected re. this stitch, and the other person got it right. It's > in my book called Plain and Fancy, which has many examples of American > needlework from the mid-1700s to the early 1800s from the Wintherthur > museum. From their illustration, I'm guessing the needle motions will be > the same as with Roumanian couching, but the square shape is what makes it > distinctive. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 09:15:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i48DFqMx009821 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 09:15:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48DFLmB026805 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 07:15:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48DFKJd065877; Sat, 8 May 2004 07:15:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48DFHJd065859 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 07:15:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AD651B9006E; Sat, 08 May 2004 09:15:17 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.109]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 8 May 2004 09:15:16 -0400 Message-ID: <002e01c434ff$5c350560$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <15d.3445e150.2dcb1971@aol.com><409AF350.881123C5@floodcity.net><409B904F.F0AC3F43@floodcity.net> <409C4398.A7EF1F7D@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 09:21:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 May 2004 13:15:17.0277 (UTC) FILETIME=[8188A4D0:01C434FE] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kitty, have you thought about just where in the middleclass you might have been? In the industrial society there was a whole muddle of variation in fashion. For one's good dress, one would choose the best fabric quality for one's means. The dress was to last for some time and would be remade to keep up with basic styling as needed. The conservative factor would affect the fit, the neckline, choice of trim, show of lace (and quality here, again). Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty Felton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass > and this would be middle class and conservative? > > Bice wrote: > > > > Well I did for the two versions. It gave the skirts added oomph. I did do > > one without but it didn't look the same at all. The polanise for this > > version is very dollike in nature and a bit fussy. But if you do the tunic > > in a bright shade or even a plaid like I did for the one and a plain white > > or even black skirt it looks really great. It also looks incredible in a > > lightweight velvet with no fuss just poufs and ruffles. > > ============================= > > Tupperware Party!! > > http://snipurl.com/5yj4 > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie > > ============================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kitty Felton" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:34 AM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass > > > > > thanks, did you use all those ruffles on your skirt? seems kinda fussy > > > to me. Kitty > > > > > > Bice wrote: > > > > > > > > #904 is a polonaise from the 1880's it has a gathered over tunic that > > can be > > > > really full at the back by adding a bustle pad or leaving it without and > > it > > > > is floofy but not overdone. I've made this up several times (the current > > one > > > > is in a bright red plaid) and it is a REALLY easy pattern. I also have > > the > > > > full butt issue (pulling it off thanks to Curves now but still) and the > > > > princess polonaise seems to be just the look. > > > > http://swapking.com/hats/past_patterns_1890.htm > > > > ============================= > > > > Tupperware Party!! > > > > http://snipurl.com/5yj4 > > > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie > > > > ============================= > > > > > oops, this is way to exagerated for me. obviously I need to think > > this > > > > > out again. Maybe a bustle isn't what I want after all. I think I > > > > > just want the extra fullness in back, since I already HAVE fullness in > > > > > back, if you know what I mean. I surely don't want to add MORE butt, > > I > > > > > want to make the butt I do have look like a fashion statement as it > > > > > were. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > h-costume mailing list > > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 10:06:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i48E6wMx010008 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 10:06:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48E6NmB029138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 08:06:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48E6LJd085319; Sat, 8 May 2004 08:06:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48E6IJd085303 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 08:06:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-87-66.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.87.66]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i48E6GYT009661 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 09:06:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040508070337.01810e20@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 07:05:36 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch In-Reply-To: <001d01c434fc$62b8d5e0$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> References: <4.1.20040507075903.01d451d0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The pincushion in question is of the 18th C >and definitely has the 'eye'. In Plain and Fancy it says the 'eye' is formed after you get all those stitches into one hole. I must look for a copy of "Plain and Fancy" I got my on www.abebooks.com . CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 10:23:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i48ENMMx010071 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 10:23:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48EMpmB000274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 08:22:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48EMoJd092025; Sat, 8 May 2004 08:22:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48EMmJd092012 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 08:22:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AD3826E900A8; Sat, 08 May 2004 10:22:48 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.103]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 8 May 2004 10:22:47 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c43508$cabe5be0$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.1.20040507075903.01d451d0@mail.frys.com> <4.1.20040508070337.01810e20@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 10:28:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 May 2004 14:22:48.0085 (UTC) FILETIME=[F000E450:01C43507] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I understand that. Among needlepoint stitches, there are other 'daisy' designs that do not have the 'eye'. Thanks for the book resource. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch > The pincushion in question is of the 18th C > >and definitely has the 'eye'. > > In Plain and Fancy it says the 'eye' is formed after you get all those > stitches into one hole. > > I must look for a copy of "Plain and Fancy" > > I got my on www.abebooks.com . > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 10:43:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i48EhSMx010137 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 10:43:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48EgomB001339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 08:42:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48EgmJd099975; Sat, 8 May 2004 08:42:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48EgkJd099954 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 08:42:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A1E5276000A8; Sat, 08 May 2004 10:42:45 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.103]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 8 May 2004 10:42:44 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c4350b$94700c20$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.1.20040507075903.01d451d0@mail.frys.com> <4.1.20040508070337.01810e20@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 10:48:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 May 2004 14:42:45.0408 (UTC) FILETIME=[B9A9E200:01C4350A] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kayta, which "Plain and Fancy" do you have? I just started to scan abebooks.com and have 29 pages+ to choose from. I have the Dover edition of Caulfield and Saward (Victorian Encyclopedia of needlework). Did they do one for the 18th C? Another dictionary of Needlepoint stitches available is by Ann E Pestor. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch > The pincushion in question is of the 18th C > >and definitely has the 'eye'. > > In Plain and Fancy it says the 'eye' is formed after you get all those > stitches into one hole. > > I must look for a copy of "Plain and Fancy" > > I got my on www.abebooks.com . > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 11:32:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i48FW2Mx010360 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 11:32:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48FVUmB004194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 09:31:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48FVIJd020412; Sat, 8 May 2004 09:31:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48FVGJd020383 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 09:31:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-87-66.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.87.66]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i48FVCfk002729 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 08:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040508081549.02076980@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 08:31:59 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch In-Reply-To: <001701c4350b$94700c20$675183d1@rmitchellras> References: <4.1.20040507075903.01d451d0@mail.frys.com> <4.1.20040508070337.01810e20@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Kayta, which "Plain and Fancy" do you have? "Plain & Fancy American Women and Their Needlework, 1700-1850 Susan Burrows Swan Illustrated with the special needlework collection from the Wintherthur Museum" ISBN 0-03-015121-X This has needlework tools and other stuff as well as historical examples of the various kinds of needlework. I liked it for the close-ups and color plates, and for the illustrated glossary in the back. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 11:37:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i48FbZMx010389 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 11:37:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48Fb6mB004533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 09:37:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48Fb5Jd022743; Sat, 8 May 2004 09:37:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48Fb3Jd022707 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 09:37:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 5E7F85CC3C6; Sat, 8 May 2004 11:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0217.floodcity.net [198.93.211.217]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0DA05CC24E for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 11:36:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <409CFE3F.8196DDDD@floodcity.net> Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 11:35:27 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass References: <15d.3445e150.2dcb1971@aol.com><409AF350.881123C5@floodcity.net><409B904F.F0AC3F43@floodcity.net> <409C4398.A7EF1F7D@floodcity.net> <002e01c434ff$5c350560$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO no, I didn't think about that at all. wow, more to consider. I'll put more thought into it. I think I am going to send for the catalogs someone listed on this thread last week. then I can study them on paper and see what I'm looking at a little better. Patterns of time, etc. I had the Amazon Pickleworks catalog once a long time ago. they sort of overlap don't they? Anyway, I certainly enjoy all the input, it has helped me clarify the picture in my mind quite a bit. thanks, Kitty Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > Kitty, have you thought about just where in the middleclass you might have > been? In the industrial society there was a whole muddle of variation in > fashion. For one's good dress, one would choose the best fabric quality for > one's means. The dress was to last for some time and would be remade to keep > up with basic styling as needed. The conservative factor would affect the > fit, the neckline, choice of trim, show of lace (and quality here, again). > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kitty Felton" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:19 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass > > > and this would be middle class and conservative? > > > > Bice wrote: > > > > > > Well I did for the two versions. It gave the skirts added oomph. I did > do > > > one without but it didn't look the same at all. The polanise for this > > > version is very dollike in nature and a bit fussy. But if you do the > tunic > > > in a bright shade or even a plaid like I did for the one and a plain > white > > > or even black skirt it looks really great. It also looks incredible in a > > > lightweight velvet with no fuss just poufs and ruffles. > > > ============================= > > > Tupperware Party!! > > > http://snipurl.com/5yj4 > > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie > > > ============================= > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Kitty Felton" > > > To: "Historical Costume" > > > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:34 AM > > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass > > > > > > > thanks, did you use all those ruffles on your skirt? seems kinda > fussy > > > > to me. Kitty > > > > > > > > Bice wrote: > > > > > > > > > > #904 is a polonaise from the 1880's it has a gathered over tunic > that > > > can be > > > > > really full at the back by adding a bustle pad or leaving it without > and > > > it > > > > > is floofy but not overdone. I've made this up several times (the > current > > > one > > > > > is in a bright red plaid) and it is a REALLY easy pattern. I also > have > > > the > > > > > full butt issue (pulling it off thanks to Curves now but still) and > the > > > > > princess polonaise seems to be just the look. > > > > > http://swapking.com/hats/past_patterns_1890.htm > > > > > ============================= > > > > > Tupperware Party!! > > > > > http://snipurl.com/5yj4 > > > > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie > > > > > ============================= > > > > > > oops, this is way to exagerated for me. obviously I need to think > > > this > > > > > > out again. Maybe a bustle isn't what I want after all. I think > I > > > > > > just want the extra fullness in back, since I already HAVE > fullness in > > > > > > back, if you know what I mean. I surely don't want to add MORE > butt, > > > I > > > > > > want to make the butt I do have look like a fashion statement as > it > > > > > > were. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > h-costume mailing list > > > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > h-costume mailing list > > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 14:34:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i48IY9Mx011315 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 14:34:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48IXZmB015215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 12:33:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48IXRJd098738; Sat, 8 May 2004 12:33:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48IXKJd098625 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 12:33:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be82.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.130]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5484747FE26 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 20:33:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <005f01c4352a$f45eab40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200405071642.AA42860800@thrednedlestrete.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] seams in bodices Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 20:33:27 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Lisa, Yes this is obviously the reason. I didnt even consider that. But i think you are right. Thanks for enlightening me.......... Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] seams in bodices > If the fabric was very thick, having staggered seams would eliminate bulk. I often stagger the seams in the arm hole facings of sleeveless shifts especially if I am using linen for so there are not four layers of fabric where the seams join together. A possibility. > > Lisa Sinervo > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 22:27:45 +0200 > > >Hi, > >Can any of you explain to me why a boned bodice would have different seams than the outher material? > >Would it not have ben easyer in construktion, if the same seams was used? > >The wedding dress of Sophia Magdalena, 1766 did have a different cut for the heavily boned foundation, than the outher material. Not that i want to change this, but i thoaght it would be interresting to know why. > >I have succeded in using this pattern for the boned foundation, and have only made very little alterations. One og the things i have changed is the boning wich was very narrow strips of whalebones, and i use 0,75 cm. wide bones. > >When i have come further, i shall post you some pics! > > > >Bjarne > > > > > > > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews > >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 15:02:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i48J2iMx011405 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 15:02:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48J2AmB016987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 13:02:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48J28Jd010643; Sat, 8 May 2004 13:02:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48J23Jd010581 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 13:02:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be82.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.130]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DA69F5EE050 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 21:02:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <007001c4352e$fe3ffa70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 21:02:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] period glasses X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i48J2iMx011405 Status: RO Hi. I just realised i needed some glasses for my 18th century outfit. When i am going to demonstrate embroidery at the 1700 marketplace at the mannorhouse of Gammel Estrup. I baught Jas Townsends glasses and some nice knee buckles and a nice reproduktion pocket watch........... Have any of you had your optician put glasses in your period glasses? Is this expensive? I need to get some reading glasses in them, so that i can se my embroidery :-) Well it is rather expensive to get fully equiped isnt it? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 15:33:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i48JXpMx011620 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 15:33:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48JW4mB018916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 13:32:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48JW3Jd022704; Sat, 8 May 2004 13:32:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48JW0Jd022659 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 13:32:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A5B0123300A2; Sat, 08 May 2004 15:32:00 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.110]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 8 May 2004 15:31:59 -0400 Message-ID: <001601c43533$fcc6aea0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.1.20040507075903.01d451d0@mail.frys.com><4.1.20040508070337.01810e20@mail.frys.com> <4.1.20040508081549.02076980@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 15:38:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 May 2004 19:31:59.0932 (UTC) FILETIME=[21C417C0:01C43533] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And thanks again! My copy is on the way.Wheeeee Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch > >Kayta, which "Plain and Fancy" do you have? > > "Plain & Fancy > American Women and Their Needlework, 1700-1850 > Susan Burrows Swan > Illustrated with the special needlework collection from the Wintherthur Museum" > ISBN 0-03-015121-X > > This has needlework tools and other stuff as well as historical examples of > the various kinds of needlework. I liked it for the close-ups and color > plates, and for the illustrated glossary in the back. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 15:37:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i48JbdMx011634 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 15:37:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48JZsmB019146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 13:35:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48JZjJd024147; Sat, 8 May 2004 13:35:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48JZiJd024131 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 13:35:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A68E124500A2; Sat, 08 May 2004 15:35:42 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.110]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 8 May 2004 15:35:40 -0400 Message-ID: <001c01c43534$80c6cbe0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <15d.3445e150.2dcb1971@aol.com><409AF350.881123C5@floodcity.net><409B904F.F0AC3F43@floodcity.net><409C4398.A7EF1F7D@floodcity.net><002e01c434ff$5c350560$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> <409CFE3F.8196DDDD@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 15:41:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 May 2004 19:35:41.0448 (UTC) FILETIME=[A5CCC080:01C43533] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They (Amazon Pickleworks) do, but I stopped dealing with them a couple of years ago when they were reorganizing and had problems with orders and delivery. I have just ordered from Patterns of Time and look will have the patterns hopefully by next weekend. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty Felton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass > no, I didn't think about that at all. wow, more to consider. I'll > put more thought into it. > > I think I am going to send for the catalogs someone listed on this > thread last week. then I can study them on paper and see what I'm > looking at a little better. Patterns of time, etc. I had the > Amazon Pickleworks catalog once a long time ago. they sort of overlap > don't they? > > Anyway, I certainly enjoy all the input, it has helped me clarify the > picture in my mind quite a bit. thanks, Kitty > > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > > > Kitty, have you thought about just where in the middleclass you might have > > been? In the industrial society there was a whole muddle of variation in > > fashion. For one's good dress, one would choose the best fabric quality for > > one's means. The dress was to last for some time and would be remade to keep > > up with basic styling as needed. The conservative factor would affect the > > fit, the neckline, choice of trim, show of lace (and quality here, again). > > Kathleen > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kitty Felton" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:19 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass > > > > > and this would be middle class and conservative? > > > > > > Bice wrote: > > > > > > > > Well I did for the two versions. It gave the skirts added oomph. I did > > do > > > > one without but it didn't look the same at all. The polanise for this > > > > version is very dollike in nature and a bit fussy. But if you do the > > tunic > > > > in a bright shade or even a plaid like I did for the one and a plain > > white > > > > or even black skirt it looks really great. It also looks incredible in a > > > > lightweight velvet with no fuss just poufs and ruffles. > > > > ============================= > > > > Tupperware Party!! > > > > http://snipurl.com/5yj4 > > > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie > > > > ============================= > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Kitty Felton" > > > > To: "Historical Costume" > > > > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:34 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] CW middleclass > > > > > > > > > thanks, did you use all those ruffles on your skirt? seems kinda > > fussy > > > > > to me. Kitty > > > > > > > > > > Bice wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > #904 is a polonaise from the 1880's it has a gathered over tunic > > that > > > > can be > > > > > > really full at the back by adding a bustle pad or leaving it without > > and > > > > it > > > > > > is floofy but not overdone. I've made this up several times (the > > current > > > > one > > > > > > is in a bright red plaid) and it is a REALLY easy pattern. I also > > have > > > > the > > > > > > full butt issue (pulling it off thanks to Curves now but still) and > > the > > > > > > princess polonaise seems to be just the look. > > > > > > http://swapking.com/hats/past_patterns_1890.htm > > > > > > ============================= > > > > > > Tupperware Party!! > > > > > > http://snipurl.com/5yj4 > > > > > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie > > > > > > ============================= > > > > > > > oops, this is way to exagerated for me. obviously I need to think > > > > this > > > > > > > out again. Maybe a bustle isn't what I want after all. I think > > I > > > > > > > just want the extra fullness in back, since I already HAVE > > fullness in > > > > > > > back, if you know what I mean. I surely don't want to add MORE > > butt, > > > > I > > > > > > > want to make the butt I do have look like a fashion statement as > > it > > > > > > > were. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > h-costume mailing list > > > > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > h-costume mailing list > > > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > h-costume mailing list > > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 15:39:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i48JdwMx011646 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 15:39:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48JcAmB019311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 13:38:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48Jc9Jd025270; Sat, 8 May 2004 13:38:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48Jc7Jd025252 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 13:38:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BMXeB-00000T-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 08 May 2004 12:38:07 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] period glasses Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 12:38:12 -0700 Message-ID: <001701c43534$001368a0$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-reply-to: <007001c4352e$fe3ffa70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, I haven't visited that site in awhile....what cool stuff! Sounds to me like the glasses are easily converted...can't be that expensive for reading glasses. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 15:44:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i48JihMx011659 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 15:44:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48JiAmB019685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 13:44:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48Ji9Jd027846; Sat, 8 May 2004 13:44:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48Ji6Jd027825 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 13:44:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A886127200A2; Sat, 08 May 2004 15:44:06 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.110]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 8 May 2004 15:44:05 -0400 Message-ID: <002f01c43535$ad5febe0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <007001c4352e$fe3ffa70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] period glasses Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 15:50:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 May 2004 19:44:05.0817 (UTC) FILETIME=[D26D5A90:01C43534] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes I have, and as I wear trifocals, they are expensive! I did get just my reading lens in another pair and that was reasonably affordable. And I am learning to keep them with the kit so they can be found when I need them! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 3:02 PM Subject: [h-cost] period glasses Hi. I just realised i needed some glasses for my 18th century outfit. When i am going to demonstrate embroidery at the 1700 marketplace at the mannorhouse of Gammel Estrup. I baught Jas Townsends glasses and some nice knee buckles and a nice reproduktion pocket watch........... Have any of you had your optician put glasses in your period glasses? Is this expensive? I need to get some reading glasses in them, so that i can se my embroidery :-) Well it is rather expensive to get fully equiped isnt it? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 15:52:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i48JqTMx011713 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 15:52:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48Jo8mB020130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 13:50:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48Jo7wG030684; Sat, 8 May 2004 13:50:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48Jo5wG030581 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 13:50:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from fenris.net (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2004050819495901200rhgo8e>; Sat, 8 May 2004 19:49:59 +0000 Message-ID: <409D39EC.1040501@fenris.net> Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 12:50:04 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] period glasses References: <007001c4352e$fe3ffa70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <007001c4352e$fe3ffa70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hi. >I just realised i needed some glasses for my 18th century outfit. When i am going to demonstrate embroidery at the 1700 marketplace at the mannorhouse of Gammel Estrup. >I baught Jas Townsends glasses and some nice knee buckles and a nice reproduktion pocket watch........... >Have any of you had your optician put glasses in your period glasses? Is this expensive? I need to get some reading glasses in them, so that i can se my embroidery :-) >Well it is rather expensive to get fully equiped isnt it? > >Bjarne > > > Bjarne, My optician put my perscription in an old pair of pinc-nez - those little glasses that just perch on your nose. No problems. The only cost was the usual one for the lenses themselves. liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 15:55:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i48JtVMx011838 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 15:55:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48Jt1mB020440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 13:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48Jt1wG032685; Sat, 8 May 2004 13:55:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48JsxwG032638 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 13:54:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from deforce@pcez.com) Received: from pcez.com (www-data@dns1.pcez.com [209.102.124.11]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id MAA19320; Sat, 8 May 2004 12:56:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host www-data@dns1.pcez.com [209.102.124.11] claimed to be pcez.com From: "paul Cooper" To: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" , Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 19:54:50 GMT Subject: Re: [h-cost] period glasses X-Mailer: DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 2.3b, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <409d3b0a.67d1.0@pcez.com> X-User-Info: 209.102.127.96 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One of the local jewlers here in the Pacific Northwest has used coin holders to make verry period looking glasses. For the lenses he used the cheep ones you can get at the local store as long a the lenses are not glass they can be easly cut with a jewlers or other fine saw. The trick is to put the original frames on your face and mark the the point at which your puples center them selves on the lenses. use this as your center point for the cutting (make sure you use a marker that isnt perminant. Once cut you cut out the lenses you can then mount them in the loups of the coin holders. You then rivit the holders together. You can attach ear pieces if you are adept at soldering (do this before mounting lenses.) This will work in most cases also if you have a pair of old lenses you could use them provided they are not to far out of spec for your eyes and not glass. To have new lenses cut and mounted in a purchasesed set of frames runs about $50-75 US that is for a simple perscription no bifocals or extreem perscriptions. That should include mounting and cutting of new lenses to your perscription. Don't forget contacts could be an easy answer to this problem. ------------------- http://www.pcez.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 16:22:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i48KMpMx012179 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 16:22:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48KMGmB022195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 14:22:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48KMDwG043971; Sat, 8 May 2004 14:22:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i48KMBwG043866 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 14:22:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m87.in-tch.com [216.166.191.87]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i48JwMe23261 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 13:58:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <409D4247.8030505@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 14:25:43 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] period glasses References: <007001c4352e$fe3ffa70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <007001c4352e$fe3ffa70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm lucky, I guess. I don't have to *wear* period glasses. Since the group I'm in lets "medically necessary" things slide (i.e., we're not as strict with some of this stuff as other groups need to be), I could wear my glasses if I wanted to. What I normally do, though, is just go without--makes things beyond my arm's reach slightly-to-very fuzzy, but doesn't interfere with my embroidery at all. I actually need to be glasses-free for my best (close-up) vision for the miniscule, finicky monochrome embroidery I'm usually engaged in (nothing like the colorful, exotic lovely stuff Bjarne's doing). If I were engaged in activities that required better distance vision (any sort of armored combat, for instance, or archery), I'd have to come up with something else. --sue, who loves her bifocals for just about everything else, though (especially working on a computer! ;o) p.s. And yeah, it *is* expensive to get fully equipped! The devil's in the details, no? I'm either going to have to learn to make my own ##$@$!! shoes, or get used to paying a LOT of money for them! Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi. I just realised i needed some glasses for my 18th century outfit. > When i am going to demonstrate embroidery at the 1700 marketplace at > the mannorhouse of Gammel Estrup. I baught Jas Townsends glasses and > some nice knee buckles and a nice reproduktion pocket > watch........... Have any of you had your optician put glasses in > your period glasses? Is this expensive? I need to get some reading > glasses in them, so that i can se my embroidery :-) Well it is rather > expensive to get fully equiped isnt it? > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 8 21:51:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i491oxMx013651 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 21:50:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i491lGmB011786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 May 2004 19:47:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i491l1wG081356; Sat, 8 May 2004 19:47:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i491kwwG081289 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 19:46:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.3c.3ea967a6 (3948) for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 21:46:46 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <3c.3ea967a6.2dcee786@aol.com> Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 21:46:46 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: source for silk grosgrain ribbon? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5016 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/8/2004 8:42:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: Homesew.com I deal with them, too--order my cotton twill tape 50 yds at a time so I don't have to run to G Street Fabrics when I just need a yard or two. I'm not a purist about many things, but polyester twill tape looks SO artificial--not at all like cotton. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 9 10:40:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i49EeeMx028625 for ; Sun, 9 May 2004 10:40:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i49EdWmB018393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 9 May 2004 08:39:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i49EdKwG043260; Sun, 9 May 2004 08:39:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i49EdHwG043235 for ; Sun, 9 May 2004 08:39:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-8592); Sun, 09 May 2004 07:37:44 -0700 Received: from unknown (66.205.128.60) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Sun, 09 May 2004 07:37:44 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040509073638.0117d678@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 07:39:10 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] period glasses In-Reply-To: <007001c4352e$fe3ffa70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-66 ip=66.205.128.60 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:02 PM 5/8/2004 +0200, you wrote: >Hi. >I just realised i needed some glasses for my 18th century outfit. When i >am going to demonstrate embroidery at the 1700 marketplace at the >mannorhouse of Gammel Estrup. >I baught Jas Townsends glasses and some nice knee buckles and a nice >reproduktion pocket watch........... >Have any of you had your optician put glasses in your period glasses? Is >this expensive? I need to get some reading glasses in them, so that i can >se my embroidery :-) >Well it is rather expensive to get fully equiped isnt it? > >Bjarne Bjarne, I had my optician put my prescription in a similar set of frames. It was not expensive since I did not try to have my bifocals installed . I expect that you will have no trouble with this. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 9 12:19:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i49GJ5Mx029136 for ; Sun, 9 May 2004 12:19:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i49GIQmB023335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 9 May 2004 10:18:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i49GINwG077608; Sun, 9 May 2004 10:18:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i49GIKwG077587 for ; Sun, 9 May 2004 10:18:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-34-198.jps.net ([209.165.34.198] helo=pavilion) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BMr0N-0005rd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 09 May 2004 09:18:19 -0700 Message-ID: <001401c435e3$3bd9e300$c622a5d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200405071642.AA42860800@thrednedlestrete.com> <005f01c4352a$f45eab40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] seams in bodices Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 09:32:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO of course it could be that they were short of fabric and had to piece together the lining or some other compensation for an array of mistakes that we have all made during garment in construction. Who knows? Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] seams in bodices > Dear Lisa, > Yes this is obviously the reason. I didnt even consider that. But i think > you are right. > Thanks for enlightening me.......... > > Bjarne > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lisa Sinervo" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:42 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] seams in bodices > > > > If the fabric was very thick, having staggered seams would eliminate bulk. > I often stagger the seams in the arm hole facings of sleeveless shifts > especially if I am using linen for so there are not four layers of fabric > where the seams join together. A possibility. > > > > Lisa Sinervo > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > > Reply-To: Historical Costume > > Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 22:27:45 +0200 > > > > >Hi, > > >Can any of you explain to me why a boned bodice would have different > seams than the outher material? > > >Would it not have ben easyer in construktion, if the same seams was used? > > >The wedding dress of Sophia Magdalena, 1766 did have a different cut for > the heavily boned foundation, than the outher material. Not that i want to > change this, but i thoaght it would be interresting to know why. > > >I have succeded in using this pattern for the boned foundation, and have > only made very little alterations. One og the things i have changed is the > boning wich was very narrow strips of whalebones, and i use 0,75 cm. wide > bones. > > >When i have come further, i shall post you some pics! > > > > > >Bjarne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews > > >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > > > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > >_______________________________________________ > > >h-costume mailing list > > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 9 15:08:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i49J8HMx029968 for ; Sun, 9 May 2004 15:08:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i49J2nmB002270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 9 May 2004 13:02:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i49J2WwG041397; Sun, 9 May 2004 13:02:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i49J2SwG041307 for ; Sun, 9 May 2004 13:02:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fd2.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.210]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7736F47FE13 for ; Sun, 9 May 2004 21:02:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001f01c435f8$3152fba0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 21:02:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] bodice foundation X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i49J8HMx029968 Status: RO Hi, Just a little sigh from a buisy man. This boned bodice foundation has really taken me time to make. I started friday morning (danish holliday called store bededag) wich means big prayer day. I blew up the bodice cut from Janet Arnolds patter of the weddingdress of Sophia Magdalena. Had to make it quite large to fit the size 38 i make it in. And had to alter the neckline wich got much two big. It worked well. Interresting to se that the ridgid shoulder posture is even more narrow in the back in this official dress. The bodice is construkted of 12 pieces, and i had to make doubble because of the boning. And basting marking 24 pieces wery precisely takes a lot of time................. Then i had to sew down all the seams because they usually gets in the way for the boning. And i finally started to make the bone casings this afternoon. I have made the front now and it is 9 o clock in the evening so i dont want to sew more today. My boning is only 0,75 cm. wide so there is going to be a lot of boning in it. It is boned all the way troughout the bodice. I fear for the tabs when i am going to mount the silk bodice to the foundation. It says that the tabs was lined with a silk ribbon 1/8 inch wide, folded and sewed. You know how much i hate this.......... Aicks The tabs seams to the bodice is hided with a 1/16 wide silver cord. Wonder if i could make a piping as substitute for this? Anyway i found a wonderfull taffeta in the right colour last thursday. So it is all well. Usually (dont know if you have it like that?) i cant stop sewing when i make the bone casings, and only stops when i have finished so that i can rush the bones into the casings and see the result. But i must take it easy, because i really want to do it propperly. Wont make any pictures until the foundation is ready. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 9 16:17:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i49KHsMx030291 for ; Sun, 9 May 2004 16:17:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i49KGJmB006501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 9 May 2004 14:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i49KGHwG071462; Sun, 9 May 2004 14:16:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80504.mail.yahoo.com (web80504.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i49KGGwG071406 for ; Sun, 9 May 2004 14:16:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040509201610.35002.qmail@web80504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.202.175.43] by web80504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 09 May 2004 13:16:10 PDT Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 13:16:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405091800.i49I0bwH016360@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: period glasses X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne wrote: Hi. I just realised i needed some glasses for my 18th century outfit. When i am going to demonstrate embroidery at the 1700 marketplace at the mannorhouse of Gammel Estrup. I baught Jas Townsends glasses and some nice knee buckles and a nice reproduktion pocket watch........... Have any of you had your optician put glasses in your period glasses? Is this expensive? I need to get some reading glasses in them, so that i can se my embroidery :-) Well it is rather expensive to get fully equiped isnt it? Hi Bjarne-- In answer to your questions, both my husband and I have had our prescriptions put in period frames by our opticians for many years, and every single one has treated it the same as putting lenses in any other set of frames supplied by the patient. The only trouble we ever ran into was when my husband broke his original 19th century frames, and there wasn't anybody in Northern California that could work on them (they were just too delicate). Right now we're particularly lucky: our optician has about a dozen reenactors that all go to her for their eyeglasses and contacts, and she keeps an eye open for period frames for us. Yes, it IS expensive, but it could be worse--you could also be equipping a horse! Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 9 23:07:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4A37rMx031687 for ; Sun, 9 May 2004 23:07:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4A35jNX003137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 9 May 2004 21:05:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4A35ON0011923; Sun, 9 May 2004 21:05:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4A35NN0011888 for ; Sun, 9 May 2004 21:05:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id EAD655CC09B; Sun, 9 May 2004 23:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0477.floodcity.net [198.93.212.223]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA2FD5CC088 for ; Sun, 9 May 2004 23:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <409EF117.4FE325DE@floodcity.net> Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 23:03:51 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Scottish Victorian costume References: <49249.206.124.3.104.1083800440.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> <20040506132118.20039.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not good on dates, but it seems to me I remember reading that at some point the kilt and the plaid were outlawed to try to depress the clan mentality since the scots were so warlike. in the same way the gaelic language and the clan names were outlawed. in Ireland, same deal, the people were required to change their clan names to names of either a color, an occupation or something else. I imagine someone else has more info on this, but the plaid wasn't really fantasy fashion, it was very personal. it identified a clan just as a standard identified the british families in battle. Scotsmen, and the descendants of scotsmen still prize their plaid, and some study the different plaids to identify who has the "right" to wear them. some of our favorite plaids are actually clan plaids. the popular navy and green plaid is a clan plaid but I can't remember which clan it is associated with. Plaids were worn at special events after the laws outlawing them were lifted. During the ban, they were worn defiantly to rally the clan, keep their family identity alive and to provoke a response from the brits after any particularly trying act of oppression. the whole story of the subjection and assimilation of the Gaelic people is a fastinating one. the economic demarkation isn't valid, a rabidly patriotic scot might wear plaid as a badge of honor, rich, poor or in between, and the same can be said for those who consider plaid to be more of a fashion statement than a political one. Well, anyway, FWIW, hope this helps, kitty Jean Waddie wrote: > > I think you would find a marked urban/rural split as well. The rich > folks might have had their servants wear kilts on their Highland estates > (like John Brown) but not in town. I get the impression it was a > "fantasy" fashion, rather than a "sophisticated" fashion, if that makes > sense. > > Kilts were, of course, quickly adopted for the uniform of some Scottish > regiments, and you would see more people going about in uniform in > Victorian times, so that might be a factor. > > As to the working class wearing them, kilts are very expensive - there's > a huge amount of high quality wool in there, which costs once you have > to buy it instead of having your own clan's sheep and your women to > weave it. I don't think the working classes could afford it on their own > account. > > Just my un-learned tuppence-worth > > Jean > > Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote > >Work clothes pretty much were indistinguishable as to > >country of origin. Trousers, sturdy shoes, shirt and a > >short coat. I have seen photos of early railroad > >workers where some of the workers were wearing plaid > >flat caps or the infamous "tam-o-shanters" in plaid. > >Occasionally you'll see a plaid vest. I think after > >the 1750, the kilt in Scotland became an uncommon item > >until after Victoria made efforts to revive its > >popularity. Then it seems to have taken a while for > >the working class to warm back up to it. > > > >Catalina > > > > > > --- sylvia@ntw.net wrote: > Now I'm researching > >Scottish Victorian costume too, > >> also circa 1890-1900. > >> Does anyone know how provalent the wearing of kilts > >> would have been and > >> who would have worn them? I've got both working > >> class men (mill workers) > >> who I'm sure wouldnt be wearing kilts and some > >> noblemen that I'm not sure > >> of. > >> > >> Sylrog > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > >===== > >Catalina > >Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > > > > > > > >____________________________________________________________ > >Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > >your friends today! Download Messenger Now > >http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- > Jean Waddie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 00:08:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4A48SMx031894 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 00:08:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4A47mNX006897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 9 May 2004 22:07:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4A47gN0037984; Sun, 9 May 2004 22:07:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out006.verizon.net (out006pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4A47eN0037969 for ; Sun, 9 May 2004 22:07:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pandoraf@verizon.net) Received: from GAIDHEALACH ([4.62.16.122]) by out006.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040510040740.VGHX23663.out006.verizon.net@GAIDHEALACH> for ; Sun, 9 May 2004 23:07:40 -0500 From: "Pandora Nic 'Ille Phadraig" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Scottish Victorian costume Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 21:11:13 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <409EF117.4FE325DE@floodcity.net> Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [4.62.16.122] at Sun, 9 May 2004 23:07:35 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO specific to Kitty's remark about the kilt being outlawed: After the defeat of the Jacobite Scots and their supporters at the Battle of Culloden on 17 April 1746, things went downhill fast for the Highlanders as many aspects of their freedom and culture were oppressed/legislated out of existence (many parts of the native Gaelic culture, for example) if not permanently, at least for a time - such as the proscription of Highland dress (the kilt) from 1747-1782. here are some links that go into detail about what is and isn't known about the history of the kilt, tartans, and other aspects of Scottish dress, from medieval into more recent times. http://www.medievalscotland.org/clothing/ http://www.reconstructinghistory.com http://www.albanach.org/ -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Kitty Felton Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 8:04 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Scottish Victorian costume I'm not good on dates, but it seems to me I remember reading that at some point the kilt and the plaid were outlawed to try to depress the clan mentality since the scots were so warlike. in the same way the gaelic language and the clan names were outlawed. in Ireland, same deal, the people were required to change their clan names to names of either a color, an occupation or something else. I imagine someone else has more info on this, but the plaid wasn't really fantasy fashion, it was very personal. it identified a clan just as a standard identified the british families in battle. Scotsmen, and the descendants of scotsmen still prize their plaid, and some study the different plaids to identify who has the "right" to wear them. some of our favorite plaids are actually clan plaids. the popular navy and green plaid is a clan plaid but I can't remember which clan it is associated with. Plaids were worn at special events after the laws outlawing them were lifted. During the ban, they were worn defiantly to rally the clan, keep their family identity alive and to provoke a response from the brits after any particularly trying act of oppression. the whole story of the subjection and assimilation of the Gaelic people is a fastinating one. the economic demarkation isn't valid, a rabidly patriotic scot might wear plaid as a badge of honor, rich, poor or in between, and the same can be said for those who consider plaid to be more of a fashion statement than a political one. Well, anyway, FWIW, hope this helps, kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 02:03:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4A63iMx000799 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 02:03:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4A62fNX014346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 00:02:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4A62RN0082213; Mon, 10 May 2004 00:02:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4A62PN0082138 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 00:02:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-135-62.client.comcast.net [24.21.135.62]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i4A62Hv06537 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 02:02:17 -0400 Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 23:05:30 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <001f01c435f8$3152fba0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-Id: <0A44D671-A248-11D8-A9E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] contact info - French museums X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all, I am looking for contact information for some of the museums I will be visiting this summer. Does anyone have contact information for the following museums? I would like to schedule visits in advance, if possible. Thanks! Albert Bonno Museum, Chelles, France Musee Municipal, Sens, France Bibliotheque Nationale, Paris, France. Any information on museums with Merovingian holdings would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks, again! Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com "But I don't want to go to Transylvania!" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 03:24:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4A7OlMx025641 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 03:24:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4A7NhNX018105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 01:23:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4A7NaN0014439; Mon, 10 May 2004 01:23:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4A7NYN0014414 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 01:23:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-92-162.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.92.162]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4A7NLNx029436 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 00:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040510002430.02115ca0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 00:24:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen's Stitch In-Reply-To: <001601c43533$fcc6aea0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> References: <4.1.20040507075903.01d451d0@mail.frys.com> <4.1.20040508070337.01810e20@mail.frys.com> <4.1.20040508081549.02076980@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >And thanks again! My copy is on the way.Wheeeee Let me know how you like it. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 05:08:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4A98PMx026306 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 05:08:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4A97pNX023172 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 03:07:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4A97bN0051802; Mon, 10 May 2004 03:07:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4A97aN0051766 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 03:07:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0835.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.68]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C688BE7A5 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 11:07:28 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <409F4655.9020803@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:07:33 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Museum Avallon clothing from 1860-1973 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Has anyone heard from this museum? It is a private collection wich you can see if you make an appointment. http://www.lyonne.com/pics/download/fil-y3/yonne38.pdf Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 07:23:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ABNIMx026741 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 07:23:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ABLoNX000416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 05:21:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ABLhN0001254; Mon, 10 May 2004 05:21:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ABLeN0001243 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 05:21:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i4ABLePH018629 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 04:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.196.227] (tnt-1-35.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.227]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ABLb61018610 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 04:21:38 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040505092109.00b6aa98@mail.katiesorchids.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040505092109.00b6aa98@mail.katiesorchids.com> Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 22:14:10 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: RE: [h-cost] CW middleclass Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:25 AM -0700 5/5/04, Katie Pleasance wrote: >I have never been interested in the Civil War Era because my >impression of it is that the women in the photos were always >stern-faced (because of having to hold a position for a long time >while the photograph was being taken), the posing tended to be >ram-rod straight, and the colors were so *drab*. To me, this was >not an era of happiness, but of stern, sober, drab, depressing >garments. I know that people were happy then, as people are in any >era, but the photos don't seem to reveal it. If you look at photos of my great-great-grandfather from the Civil War Era, you'd think he was a dull stick indeed. But if you read his diary .... If I ever got the yen to do CW (which is quite unlikely) it would be because of reading those diaries** and having everything come alive so vividly. Heather **Technically, it's a collation of his diaries and letters to various relatives, especially his sister. The letters tend to provide the most lively parts. -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 08:12:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ACCsMx027470 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 08:12:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AC8gNX002348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 06:08:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AC8cN0020118; Mon, 10 May 2004 06:08:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AC8ZN0020064 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 06:08:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A0C118E30074; Mon, 10 May 2004 08:08:33 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.111]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 10 May 2004 08:08:32 -0400 Message-ID: <002101c43688$5f248ea0$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:14:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 May 2004 12:08:33.0079 (UTC) FILETIME=[83AC0470:01C43687] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Henly shirts. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4ACCsMx027470 Status: RO Anyone have an opinion or fact as to why certain three/four button shirts have the nomen of "Henly"? Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 09:23:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ADN1Mx028228 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 09:23:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ADJlNX006669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 07:19:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ADJhN0051876; Mon, 10 May 2004 07:19:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ADJfN0051813 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 07:19:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.12c.414cf5c5 (4012) for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 09:19:26 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <12c.414cf5c5.2dd0db5d@aol.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:19:25 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henly shirts. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5027 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/10/2004 8:09:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: Anyone have an opinion or fact as to why certain three/four button shirts have the nomen of "Henly"? It's "Henley," and, just a guess, from the Henley Regatta? Alas, the OED doesn't enlighten us as to the term. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 10:37:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4AEbXMx028644 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 10:37:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AEZVNX012221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 08:35:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AEZMN0094339; Mon, 10 May 2004 08:35:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AEZKN0094322 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 08:35:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.99] (pm7-099.eos.net [205.133.149.99]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4AEZ0C7026392 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 10:35:01 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:33:50 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200405091800.i49I0bwH016360@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: period glasses X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When my husband and I used to do 19th-century ballroom dancing, he had a pair of antique glasses fitted with his prescription. A regular glasses place did it for the regular charge. But no one would do mine, because my eyes are so bad that the lenses were too thick for the frames, even plastic lenses. And I can't wear contact lenses. (Yes, I have tried.) I am not willing to be blind, so I just wear my glasses. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 10:44:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4AEiaMx028695 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 10:44:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AEgZNX013188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 08:42:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AEgYN0099428; Mon, 10 May 2004 08:42:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AEgVN0099338 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 08:42:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1a6.23e326d4 (4552) for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 10:42:16 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1a6.23e326d4.2dd0eec8@aol.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:42:16 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: period glasses To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5027 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/10/2004 10:36:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: A regular glasses place did it for the regular charge. But no one would do mine, because my eyes are so bad that the lenses were too thick for the frames, even plastic lenses. And I can't wear contact lenses. (Yes, I have tried.) I am not willing to be blind, so I just wear my glasses. Was this very long ago? I ask because my lenses used to be incredibly thick, I thought, and the newer materials they use result in a much thinner lens. However, what I have done is found a modern frame that has a pretty good period look, except that it has nose pieces, and had lined bifocles inserted. After all, Benjamin Franklin invented the bifocle, and I do early 19th century interpretation. My first pair, very small round lenses, only have my distance perscription--no room for bifocles in them--and I find that I really need the close up one, too. My husband was luckier in that he found a modern frame that is almost a perfect period look, as it has no nose pieces. But I have a small face and this frame was too large for me. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 12:22:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4AGMBMx029128 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 12:22:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AGLONX026867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 10:21:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AGLJN0078843; Mon, 10 May 2004 10:21:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net (starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AGLEN0078804 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 10:21:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.60.123.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.60.123] helo=HELENPINTO) by starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BNDWi-0000wE-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 May 2004 09:21:13 -0700 Message-ID: <007501c436aa$c74e8a90$7b3c9b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002101c43688$5f248ea0$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henly shirts. Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:20:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef766942ce8e486c92ba92eca3552f7cc9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathleen wrote: Anyone have an opinion or fact as to why certain three/four button shirts have the nomen of "Henly"? Henley shirts (round split neck, several buttons) have their origins in the crew shirts worn by rowers at the Henley Regatta (near London) beginning around 1840. The shirts were adopted by by the sport, which was i incredibly popular during the 19th c. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 12:31:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4AGVJMx029268 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 12:31:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AGUjNX028049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 10:30:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AGUiN0086555; Mon, 10 May 2004 10:30:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AGUaN0086352 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 10:30:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 986095 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 May 2004 09:30:27 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:30:27 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] period glasses From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <409d3b0a.67d1.0@pcez.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Contacts aren't necessarily easier. I need tri-focals and tried to get my optometrist to give me contacts that I could use for needlework in costume. She was surprised because usually, people want distance contacts and reading glasses are an acceptable compromise. Not in this case. We went through three different prescriptions of contacts before we had to give up. Nothing worked for me. It may be easier for others, but I've worn glasses all my life and the contacts just didn't work for needlework. Best of luck to finding the right corrective lense. LynnD On 5/8/04 12:54 PM, "paul Cooper" wrote: > One of the local jewlers here in the Pacific Northwest has used coin holders > to make verry period looking glasses. For the lenses he used the cheep ones > you can get at the local store as long a the lenses are not glass they can be > easly cut with a jewlers or other fine saw. The trick is to put the original > frames on your face and mark the the point at which your puples center them > selves on the lenses. use this as your center point for the cutting (make > sure > you use a marker that isnt perminant. Once cut you cut out the lenses you can > then mount them in the loups of the coin holders. You then rivit the holders > together. You can attach ear pieces if you are adept at soldering (do this > before mounting lenses.) This will work in most cases also if you have a pair > of old lenses you could use them provided they are not to far out of spec for > your eyes and not glass. To have new lenses cut and mounted in a purchasesed > set of frames runs about $50-75 US that is for a simple perscription no > bifocals > or extreem perscriptions. That should include mounting and cutting of new > lenses > to your perscription. Don't forget contacts could be an easy answer to this > problem. > > ------------------- > http://www.pcez.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 13:14:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4AHE4Mx030360 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 13:14:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AHDRNX003640 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 11:13:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AHDNN0022483; Mon, 10 May 2004 11:13:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AHDLN0022458 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 11:13:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A8302E5F00A8; Mon, 10 May 2004 13:13:20 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.117]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 10 May 2004 13:13:19 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c436b2$f3579b60$755183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002101c43688$5f248ea0$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> <007501c436aa$c74e8a90$7b3c9b04@HELENPINTO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henly shirts. Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:19:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 May 2004 17:13:20.0465 (UTC) FILETIME=[17CDAC10:01C436B2] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you Helen and Ann. I figured it was something like that. Glad to have the info. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henly shirts. > Kathleen wrote: > Anyone have an opinion or fact as to why certain three/four button shirts > have the nomen of "Henly"? > > > Henley shirts (round split neck, several buttons) have their origins in the > crew shirts worn by rowers at the Henley Regatta (near London) beginning > around 1840. The shirts were adopted by by the sport, which was i > incredibly popular during the 19th c. > -Helen/Aidan > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 13:30:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4AHUjMx030748 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 13:30:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AHSnNX005751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 11:28:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AHSjN0035737; Mon, 10 May 2004 11:28:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AHSbN0035545 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 11:28:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-135-62.client.comcast.net [24.21.135.62]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i4AHSVI16565 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 13:28:31 -0400 Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:31:43 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Althea Turner To: Costume Historical Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] need a costume made in Santa Barbara.. quickly X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I had a friend forward me a request for a girls size 12/14 Renaissance dress. I don't have time right now to take the commission. Are there any costume designers in or near Santa Barbara that might be able to do this. She has a very short turn around time. The girl would like something "princessy" :D It sounds like a fun quick project. Please email me privately so I can get your info to the client. Thank you! Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Public Relations Manager Sauron/Voldemort 2004 Bush/Cheney - Bringing Bigotry back to the Constitution. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 13:43:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4AHhfMx031084 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 13:43:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AHfZNX007508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 11:41:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AHfQN0046276; Mon, 10 May 2004 11:41:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cybrhost.net (mail.cybrhost.net [12.181.168.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AHfON0046173 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 11:41:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzanne@grannd.com) Received: from [216.254.102.72] (HELO cc707811b) by cybrhost.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with SMTP id 12745714 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 May 2004 10:41:17 -0700 From: "Suzanne" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:44:31 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000f01c436b2$f3579b60$755183d1@rmitchellras> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Alter Years? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My apologies for sending this to the list, but we really are trying to figure out what to do. Does anyone have any idea how to get a hold of anyone at Alter Years? The old and new phones now pick up but you can't leave a message. Faxes sometimes go through but there's no way to know if they are received. I haven't had any luck with email and apparently when they moved they didn't file a forwarding address since everything mailed since mid March has come back. I've tried anything listed currently on their website and also two other phone and fax numbers, maybe a new physical address if you know of one? Thanks, Suzanne Buffalino, Owner Grannd Companies/Grannd Garb 732-390-0506 FAX 732-390-1694 www.grannd.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 14:20:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4AIK5Mx031891 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 14:20:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AIIANX011451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 12:18:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AII6N0074263; Mon, 10 May 2004 12:18:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AIHvN1074122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 12:17:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-232.sonic.net [209.148.112.232]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4AIHrMt004224 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 11:17:54 -0700 Message-ID: <409FC85F.80409@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:22:23 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alter Years? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The address I have on file is: Alter Years 8960 E. Huntington Dr. San Gabriel, CA 91775 In my experience the best way to contact them is by postal mail. This address worked the last time I mailed them anything, but that was several months ago. On a related subject, does anyone know whether Amazon Drygoods has updated their catalog in the last few years? They were circulating a really ancient one for awhile, are they still? Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com >Does anyone have any idea how to get a hold of anyone at Alter Years? > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 14:27:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4AIRrMx031950 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 14:27:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AIONNX011976 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 12:24:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AIONN0079208; Mon, 10 May 2004 12:24:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net (invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.254]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i47KsFJd029429 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 14:54:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from madlystitching@earthlink.net) Received: from 209-165-50-236.jps.net ([209.165.50.236] helo=stephen) by invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BMCLw-0002Um-00; Fri, 07 May 2004 13:53:53 -0700 Message-ID: <000901c43474$e4b786a0$ec32a5d1@stephen> From: "Stephen Bergdahl" To: , , , "SCA Clan Blue Feather Mailing List" , , , , , , , Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:50:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-ELNK-Trace: 08dba192340bde6e1a6ab3b9b70940f894f5150ab1c16ac08bb5361f5afbff6091165923ea42c2210970faeb04c57086350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:24:22 -0600 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] More Spring Cleaning X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi I've listed some more clothing on E-bay. This lot includes a Leather Doublet and some Tunics. All very nice. I will be posting fabric, Costume books, and jewelry in the coming weeks. The is a list of everything for sale now. http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=madly&inc lude=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50 If you wish to receive notification of my sales. Just join my Group: http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/PhoenixFashionsUpdates/?yguid=14564780 6 Stephen Bergdahl - Owner & Designer Phoenix Fashions 1818 H Street #10 Sacramento CA 95814 madlystitching@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 14:33:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4AIXFMx032006 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 14:33:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AIVSNX012629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 12:31:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AIVON0084272; Mon, 10 May 2004 12:31:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (mail.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AIVMN0084165 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 12:31:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 986765 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 May 2004 11:31:16 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:31:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alter Years? From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <409FC85F.80409@lavoltapress.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I ordered a new one two months ago from Amazon, talked to a real person, paid my $6 and got a two year old catalog. I'm not pleased that I wasn't told the catalog was so old. I already owned that catalog. No, I haven't been proactive and called them back to complain; I just wrote it off to experience and will now ALWAYS ask how new their catalog is. LynnD On 5/10/04 11:22 AM, "Lavolta Press" wrote: > The address I have on file is: > > Alter Years > 8960 E. Huntington Dr. > San Gabriel, CA 91775 > > In my experience the best way to contact them is by postal mail. This > address worked the last time I mailed them anything, but that was > several months ago. > > On a related subject, does anyone know whether Amazon Drygoods has > updated their catalog in the last few years? They were circulating a > really ancient one for awhile, are they still? > > Fran > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > >> Does anyone have any idea how to get a hold of anyone at Alter Years? >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 14:49:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4AInNMx032084 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 14:49:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AIlTNX014169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 12:47:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AIkQN0095099; Mon, 10 May 2004 12:46:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cybrhost.net (mail.cybrhost.net [12.181.168.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AIhxN0093197 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 12:44:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzanne@grannd.com) Received: from [216.254.102.72] (HELO cc707811b) by cybrhost.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with SMTP id 12772100 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 May 2004 11:43:54 -0700 From: "Suzanne" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alter Years? Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:47:09 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <409FC85F.80409@lavoltapress.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Fran, Thanks but that's the old address that is returning things as non-forwardable. I'll keep checking around Suz > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Lavolta Press > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 2:22 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alter Years? > > > The address I have on file is: > > Alter Years > 8960 E. Huntington Dr. > San Gabriel, CA 91775 > > In my experience the best way to contact them is by postal mail. This > address worked the last time I mailed them anything, but that was > several months ago. > > On a related subject, does anyone know whether Amazon Drygoods has > updated their catalog in the last few years? They were circulating a > really ancient one for awhile, are they still? > > Fran > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > >Does anyone have any idea how to get a hold of anyone at Alter Years? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 15:18:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4AJIXMx032227 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 15:18:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AJHjNX017294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 13:17:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AJHhN0019025; Mon, 10 May 2004 13:17:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AJHcN0018909 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 13:17:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BNGHM-0006M3-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 May 2004 20:17:32 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:16:44 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Scottish Victorian costume References: <49249.206.124.3.104.1083800440.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> <20040506132118.20039.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> <409EF117.4FE325DE@floodcity.net> In-Reply-To: <409EF117.4FE325DE@floodcity.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The kilt and the tartan were banned after the third Jacobite rebellion in 1745, but it didn't last all that long. What I was referring to as a "fashion" was when Queen Victoria, and following her the Victorian upper classes, took to all things Scottish as being "quaint". It was rather like Marie Antoinette dressing as a shepherdess, and had nothing to do with any real Scottish connection. It was something they would enjoy playing at, at weekend parties on their highland estates, but I simply can't imagine a footman opening the front door of a townhouse in Edinburgh wearing a kilt. I don't want to be nasty, I know it was well meant, but I AM Scottish (not American-Scottish - I live in Edinburgh, I work for the Scottish government - I support the Scottish rugby team!) I know about tartans and their significance, but I was talking about a different context. Jean Kitty Felton wrote >I'm not good on dates, but it seems to me I remember reading that at >some point the kilt and the plaid were outlawed to try to depress the >clan mentality since the scots were so warlike. in the same way the >gaelic language and the clan names were outlawed. in Ireland, same >deal, the people were required to change their clan names to names of >either a color, an occupation or something else. I imagine someone >else has more info on this, but the plaid wasn't really fantasy fashion, >it was very personal. it identified a clan just as a standard >identified the british families in battle. Scotsmen, and the >descendants of scotsmen still prize their plaid, and some study the >different plaids to identify who has the "right" to wear them. some of >our favorite plaids are actually clan plaids. the popular navy and >green plaid is a clan plaid but I can't remember which clan it is >associated with. >Plaids were worn at special events after the laws outlawing them were >lifted. During the ban, they were worn defiantly to rally the clan, >keep their family identity alive and to provoke a response from the >brits after any particularly trying act of oppression. >the whole story of the subjection and assimilation of the Gaelic people >is a fastinating one. > the economic demarkation isn't valid, a rabidly patriotic scot might >wear plaid as a badge of honor, rich, poor or in between, and the same >can be said for those who consider plaid to be more of a fashion >statement than a political one. > >Well, anyway, FWIW, hope this helps, kitty > >Jean Waddie wrote: >> >> I think you would find a marked urban/rural split as well. The rich >> folks might have had their servants wear kilts on their Highland estates >> (like John Brown) but not in town. I get the impression it was a >> "fantasy" fashion, rather than a "sophisticated" fashion, if that makes >> sense. >> >> Kilts were, of course, quickly adopted for the uniform of some Scottish >> regiments, and you would see more people going about in uniform in >> Victorian times, so that might be a factor. >> >> As to the working class wearing them, kilts are very expensive - there's >> a huge amount of high quality wool in there, which costs once you have >> to buy it instead of having your own clan's sheep and your women to >> weave it. I don't think the working classes could afford it on their own >> account. >> >> Just my un-learned tuppence-worth >> >> Jean >> >> Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote >> >Work clothes pretty much were indistinguishable as to >> >country of origin. Trousers, sturdy shoes, shirt and a >> >short coat. I have seen photos of early railroad >> >workers where some of the workers were wearing plaid >> >flat caps or the infamous "tam-o-shanters" in plaid. >> >Occasionally you'll see a plaid vest. I think after >> >the 1750, the kilt in Scotland became an uncommon item >> >until after Victoria made efforts to revive its >> >popularity. Then it seems to have taken a while for >> >the working class to warm back up to it. >> > >> >Catalina >> > >> > >> > --- sylvia@ntw.net wrote: > Now I'm researching >> >Scottish Victorian costume too, >> >> also circa 1890-1900. >> >> Does anyone know how provalent the wearing of kilts >> >> would have been and >> >> who would have worn them? I've got both working >> >> class men (mill workers) >> >> who I'm sure wouldnt be wearing kilts and some >> >> noblemen that I'm not sure >> >> of. >> >> >> >> Sylrog >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> h-costume mailing list >> >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >> >===== >> >Catalina >> >Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >____________________________________________________________ >> >Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" >> >your friends today! Download Messenger Now >> >http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html >> >_______________________________________________ >> >h-costume mailing list >> >h-costume@mail.indra.com >> >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> -- >> Jean Waddie >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 15:45:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4AJj3Mx032347 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 15:45:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AJeUQT019494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 13:43:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AJdPN0034917; Mon, 10 May 2004 13:39:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AJdMN1034868 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 13:39:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-253.sonic.net [209.148.112.253]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4AJdIhx009259 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 12:39:19 -0700 Message-ID: <409FDB74.6080306@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:43:48 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alter Years? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is so obvious you probably already tried it, but have you looked up either Janet Wilson Anderson or Alter Years in a local phone book? The postal address might be there. Another thing you might try is looking up the website for the 2004 Costume College. Since they are local Alter Years may have signed up as a vendor and therefore the Costume College organizers might put you in touch. If you get the new address please let me know what it is. Fran Suzanne wrote: >Hi Fran, > >Thanks but that's the old address that is returning things as >non-forwardable. I'll keep checking around > >Suz > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 17:31:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ALVPMx000438 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 17:31:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ALUeNX001863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 15:30:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ALUUN0019150; Mon, 10 May 2004 15:30:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ALUSN0019077 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 15:30:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF18C3D69 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 16:30:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t2p309.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.55]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7D838D4B6 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 16:30:24 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alter Years? Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:30:35 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <409FDB74.6080306@lavoltapress.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try: Grannd Companies 295 Main St. South River, NJ. 08882 or http://www.grannd.com/alteryears.shtml -----Original Message----- This is so obvious you probably already tried it, but have you looked up either Janet Wilson Anderson or Alter Years in a local phone book? The postal address might be there. Another thing you might try is looking up the website for the 2004 Costume College. Since they are local Alter Years may have signed up as a vendor and therefore the Costume College organizers might put you in touch. If you get the new address please let me know what it is. Fran Suzanne wrote: >Hi Fran, > >Thanks but that's the old address that is returning things as >non-forwardable. I'll keep checking around > >Suz > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 18:25:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4AMPSMx000643 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 18:25:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AMOoNX007491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 16:24:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AMOkN0060176; Mon, 10 May 2004 16:24:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav14.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4AMOhN0059971 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 16:24:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 10 May 2004 15:24:35 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav14.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 10 May 2004 22:24:35 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040421222609.48286.qmail@web20729.mail.yahoo.com> <006901c42843$df39e610$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: Machine feet Re: [h-cost] My Best Tips & Tricks Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 18:25:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 May 2004 22:24:35.0939 (UTC) FILETIME=[9340DB30:01C436DD] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 4:29 AM Subject: Re: Machine feet Re: [h-cost] My Best Tips & Tricks > Hi Ann, > If you like me use a Husqvarna Sewing Machine, you also gets i think 10 > different feets. One for each seam. It is a little anoying at start, and i > have broken some needles because of that, but the seams gets so beautifull. > I also have an automatic buttonhole maker on my machine, you sets it to wich > lenght you want, and woila the buttonhole is done in a minute. It costed me > about 1000 dollars, but surely it has ben worth it. > It never strikes................. > > Bjarne > Hi Bjarne, I have a Viking Lily 555, and it's a dream to work with. I haven't given it anything it can't manage yet, and it makes beautiful, even seams. I especially love the stretch seams, that way I can sew those stretchy jeans hems easily. And I love all those extra feet, but I agree you have to learn to use them first. As for the buttonhole maker, you just have to be careful to give it something stiff to stitch with, even if it's just paper. I've tried to use it on felt and it didn't work very well, but it worked fine on everything else. I have a buch of fancy seams. With gold thread it gives a pretty convincing result. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 20:38:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4B0c4Mx001233 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 20:38:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B0YYNX018265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 18:34:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B0YQN0057980; Mon, 10 May 2004 18:34:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav20.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B0YNN0057879 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 18:34:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 10 May 2004 17:34:11 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav20.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 11 May 2004 00:34:11 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pre 1800s armpit protection Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:34:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 May 2004 00:34:11.0141 (UTC) FILETIME=[ADA28750:01C436EF] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know I'm late for this answer, but I remember when I read Gargantua by Rabelais that, when he describes Gargantua's clothing, he states the fabric needed for his shirt separately from the fabric needed for his gussets. It went like this Pour sa chemise furent levées neuf cens aulnes de toille de Chasteleraud, et deux cens pour les coussons en sorte de carreaulx, lesquelz on mist soubz les esselles. Which could be translated somewhat like "For his shirt were ordered nine hundred (aulnes - that's a measurement I don't know) of cloth (de Chasteleraud) and two hundred for the gussets in the shape of squares, which were put under the armpits." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hilary Davidson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 11:41 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pre 1800s armpit protection > Thanks for the responses. This is a really interesting thought. ARe > there any extant garments with different linen in the gussets? > > Also, notice the shirts for men and shifts for women. The > > construction was > > such that the same square sewn on the bias to the body and sleeve for > > movement was such that one could cut out the worn or stinky squares and > > replace them. I realized this when constructing a shift for myself for > > RenFaire. > > > From a survey of the collections at Platt Hall in Manchester (the > gallery of English Costume), it seems that degredation of the fabrics > in teh armpits of 18th c dresses comes from their being worn as fancy > dress in the 19th century, presumably without a longer sleeved chemise > underneath. Cunnington bases teh increase in dress shields from 1840 > from this collection (well, he put it together) and it seems that other > dress historians have based their work on this dating. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 20:50:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4B0oxMx001315 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 20:50:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B0oNNX019448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 18:50:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B0oJN0067246; Mon, 10 May 2004 18:50:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav19.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B0oHN0067180 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 18:50:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 10 May 2004 17:50:12 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav19.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 11 May 2004 00:50:11 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] What would a chameleon wear? Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:50:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 May 2004 00:50:12.0125 (UTC) FILETIME=[EA6D0CD0:01C436F1] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > But at worst I think I was assumed to be a tourist from elsewhere > in Europe, not an American. > > Till I opened my mouth ;-) I just got back from France, and we were usually assumed to be tourists from Europe... until we opened our mouths, and they heard our French-Canadian accent... then they started talking to us in English. "Non madame, en Français s'il-vous-plaît, c'est beaucoup plus facile." One girl even asked what the language was in Quebec. "Français!" Then she asked what the local language was - the other one than French. "FRANÇAIS!" To get back on the clothing topic: I don't know how it is during the summer, but at this time of the year, they wore lots of dark shades and lots of black. Maybe it's just because Summer is not quit there yet. I didn't notice clothing, which means it was similar to what is worn in Montreal, but I did notice a lot of fashionable shoes. Pointy shoes are in fashion, as well as very high pointy heels. We also saw some brightly colored shoes (bright red or bright yellow). And some of them are as clumsly with high heels on as most North-Americans are. So, if you're going to wear sneakers, make them the fashionable kind of walking shoes, not the typical white sneakers, that'd be a dead giveaway. Aside from that, I can't be much help, because I know we already dress slightly differently in Quebec than the rest of North America, so there are probably things I didn't notice. If you don't want to be noticed, bring a handbag instead of a backpack, and hide your camera whenever you're not using it. Enjoy your trip! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 21:27:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4B1RlMx001478 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 21:27:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B1QvNX022012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 19:26:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B1QsN0086520; Mon, 10 May 2004 19:26:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B1QrN0086507 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 19:26:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 372DD5CC20C; Mon, 10 May 2004 21:27:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (webmail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.62]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E2E4E5CC160 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 21:27:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 198.93.213.252 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Mon, 10 May 2004 21:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3866.198.93.213.252.1084238817.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 21:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Scottish Victorian costume From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.213.252 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) In-Reply-To: References: <49249.206.124.3.104.1083800440.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> <20040506132118.20039.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> <409EF117.4FE325DE@floodcity.net> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO oops, open mouth, insert foot. sorry > The kilt and the tartan were banned after the third Jacobite rebellion > in 1745, but it didn't last all that long. What I was referring to as a > "fashion" was when Queen Victoria, and following her the Victorian > upper classes, took to all things Scottish as being "quaint". It was > rather like Marie Antoinette dressing as a shepherdess, and had nothing > to do with any real Scottish connection. It was something they would > enjoy playing at, at weekend parties on their highland estates, but I > simply can't imagine a footman opening the front door of a townhouse in > > Edinburgh wearing a kilt. > > I don't want to be nasty, I know it was well meant, but I AM Scottish > (not American-Scottish - I live in Edinburgh, I work for the Scottish > government - I support the Scottish rugby team!) I know about tartans > and their significance, but I was talking about a different context. > > Jean > > > > Kitty Felton wrote >>I'm not good on dates, but it seems to me I remember reading that at >> some point the kilt and the plaid were outlawed to try to depress the >> clan mentality since the scots were so warlike. in the same way the >> gaelic language and the clan names were outlawed. in Ireland, same >> deal, the people were required to change their clan names to names of >> either a color, an occupation or something else. I imagine someone >> else has more info on this, but the plaid wasn't really fantasy >> fashion, it was very personal. it identified a clan just as a standard >>identified the british families in battle. Scotsmen, and the >>descendants of scotsmen still prize their plaid, and some study the >> different plaids to identify who has the "right" to wear them. some >> of our favorite plaids are actually clan plaids. the popular navy and >> green plaid is a clan plaid but I can't remember which clan it is >> associated with. >>Plaids were worn at special events after the laws outlawing them were >> lifted. During the ban, they were worn defiantly to rally the clan, >> keep their family identity alive and to provoke a response from the >> brits after any particularly trying act of oppression. >>the whole story of the subjection and assimilation of the Gaelic people >> is a fastinating one. >> the economic demarkation isn't valid, a rabidly patriotic scot >> might >>wear plaid as a badge of honor, rich, poor or in between, and the same >> can be said for those who consider plaid to be more of a fashion >>statement than a political one. >> >>Well, anyway, FWIW, hope this helps, kitty >> >>Jean Waddie wrote: >>> >>> I think you would find a marked urban/rural split as well. The rich >>> folks might have had their servants wear kilts on their Highland >>> estates (like John Brown) but not in town. I get the impression it >>> was a "fantasy" fashion, rather than a "sophisticated" fashion, if >>> that makes sense. >>> >>> Kilts were, of course, quickly adopted for the uniform of some >>> Scottish regiments, and you would see more people going about in >>> uniform in Victorian times, so that might be a factor. >>> >>> As to the working class wearing them, kilts are very expensive - >>> there's a huge amount of high quality wool in there, which costs once >>> you have to buy it instead of having your own clan's sheep and your >>> women to weave it. I don't think the working classes could afford it >>> on their own account. >>> >>> Just my un-learned tuppence-worth >>> >>> Jean >>> >>> Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote >>> >Work clothes pretty much were indistinguishable as to >>> >country of origin. Trousers, sturdy shoes, shirt and a >>> >short coat. I have seen photos of early railroad >>> >workers where some of the workers were wearing plaid >>> >flat caps or the infamous "tam-o-shanters" in plaid. >>> >Occasionally you'll see a plaid vest. I think after >>> >the 1750, the kilt in Scotland became an uncommon item >>> >until after Victoria made efforts to revive its >>> >popularity. Then it seems to have taken a while for >>> >the working class to warm back up to it. >>> > >>> >Catalina >>> > >>> > >>> > --- sylvia@ntw.net wrote: > Now I'm researching >>> >Scottish Victorian costume too, >>> >> also circa 1890-1900. >>> >> Does anyone know how provalent the wearing of kilts >>> >> would have been and >>> >> who would have worn them? I've got both working >>> >> class men (mill workers) >>> >> who I'm sure wouldnt be wearing kilts and some >>> >> noblemen that I'm not sure >>> >> of. >>> >> >>> >> Sylrog >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> h-costume mailing list >>> >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> > >>> >===== >>> >Catalina >>> >Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >____________________________________________________________ >>> >Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" >>> >your friends today! Download Messenger Now >>> >http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html >>> >_______________________________________________ >>> >h-costume mailing list >>> >h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>> -- >>> Jean Waddie >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- > Jean Waddie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 21:37:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4B1b9Mx001504 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 21:37:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B1YFNX022592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 19:34:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B1YEN0090229; Mon, 10 May 2004 19:34:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav27.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B1YCN0090159 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 19:34:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 10 May 2004 18:34:07 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav27.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 11 May 2004 01:34:07 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] My Best Tips & Tricks Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 21:34:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 May 2004 01:34:07.0686 (UTC) FILETIME=[0D57BE60:01C436F8] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know I'm three weeks late, but I just had to answer... > I don't have to have a Masters Degree in > > Origami to get it > > in there. > ROFL!!! I think that this is what modern seamstresses have to do in > Purgatory. Surprisingly, that part that everyone else seems to hate doesn't bother me at all. I just refold the thing on the original folds, put it back in the original envelope, and move on. Sometimes I iron cut pieces on low heat and refold them more conveniently - and put them back in the original envelope :-) Along with preparing the fabric, preparing the pattern is one of the most soothing parts of sewing for me. > (Motto: Buy it now - find the outfit later! If you buy at the last minute > you'll pay more. If you have a stash you can smugly tell everyone how much > you saved by buying it on sale (25 years ago ;-) That's the exact opposite of my motto. I never buy anything unless I have a project in mind. If I have projectless fabric, it tends to just sit there forever in my stash and never gets used. Except for white linen, of course. > > * Basting before machine sewing is NEVER a waste of > > time. > * In a similar vein, I never machine-stitch more than > two layers of fabric together at once. If a seam is > going to have more layers, I sew two together slightly > inside the seam allowance, maybe with a longer stitch > length, then add one more.... What I do in those cases, or when I try to sew slippery fabric, is use my double feed foot. It works wonderfully. Fabric never shifts anymore. Okay, here's for real tips * Get the right foot for the right job. Really, it's worth it. * If you can get a walking foot for your machine, get it. It's worth its price in gold. * If it moves, hand baste it. * If it looks like it even wants to start thinking of fraying, finish the edges before you start sewing. * If it's linen, wash it on HOT at least twice before doing anything with it. Prewash and iron everything you think you'll want to wash later on. Even if it's not supposed to shrink. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 22:46:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4B2k7Mx001796 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 22:46:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B2iHNX027686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 20:44:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B2iDN0029481; Mon, 10 May 2004 20:44:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf23.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf23.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.223]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B2iBN0029437 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 20:44:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joedr@charter.net) Received: from charter.net (66.169.191.177.ts46v-16.otnh2.ftwrth.tx.charter.com [66.169.191.177]) by mxsf23.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4B2hikh047326 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 22:43:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40A03DDF.B4B3B290@charter.net> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 21:43:43 -0500 From: Joe Robertson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Period clothiers in Texas X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A few months ago, I was made aware of an able historic costumers group that meets in the Lewisville, Texas area. Since I lost that information in the crash of 2003, can someone hook me back up with those folks? Joe _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 22:58:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4B2w5Mx001868 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 22:58:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B2vVNX028802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 20:57:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B2vUN0036305; Mon, 10 May 2004 20:57:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B2vSN0036259 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 20:57:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-170-223.client.comcast.net[24.1.170.223]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20040511025723015007j4dse>; Tue, 11 May 2004 02:57:23 +0000 Message-ID: <008e01c43703$aea190b0$6401a8c0@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40A03DDF.B4B3B290@charter.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Period clothiers in Texas Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 21:57:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes! That would have been me and I have been trying to get a hold of you for a while now. :) This explains it. I will email you privately here in a bit with all that info and the name of the lady willing to sew for you. :) Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Robertson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:43 PM Subject: [h-cost] Period clothiers in Texas : A few months ago, I was made aware of an able historic costumers group : that meets in the Lewisville, Texas area. Since I lost that information : in the crash of 2003, can someone hook me back up with those folks? : Joe : : : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 23:02:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4B32IMx001897 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 23:02:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B31kNX029141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 21:01:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B31kN0038325; Mon, 10 May 2004 21:01:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4B31iN0038296 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 21:01:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 11816 invoked from network); 11 May 2004 03:01:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 11 May 2004 03:01:45 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Mon, 10 May 2004 20:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1091.24.4.69.40.1084244501.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: References: <409FC85F.80409@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alter Years? From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hi Fran, > > Thanks but that's the old address that is returning things as > non-forwardable. I'll keep checking around > > Suz > As a member of Costume College, Alter Years put a flyer in the newsletter a couple of months ago. What it said was that they no longer had a retail shop, that they had moved to a warehouse location. It also said that you could make an appointment to see the warehouse by calling first. I am sorry that I didn't save the flyer so that I could give you more information. However I would suggest that you contact someone from the www.costumecollege.org web page. Someone will probably have the information that you seek. Good luck! Diana -- Diana Habra www.renaissancefabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 23:23:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4B3NEMx002074 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 23:23:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B3LMNX000404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 21:21:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B3LGN0047306; Mon, 10 May 2004 21:21:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.dandy.net (smtp.dandy.net [66.159.110.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B3LEN1047236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 21:21:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net ([209.128.249.152]) by smtp.dandy.net for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 May 2004 23:23:47 -0400 Message-ID: <40A0469D.9010403@dandy.net> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 23:21:01 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pre 1800s armpit protection References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. I do not believe that the gussetts mentioned in any way reflect the need for replacement in the garment. They were a simple way of using a geometric shape that followed the grainline of the fabric in such a way as to give easement to the fit of the garment. To the contrary of most beliefs about cleanliness of our ancestors, the singlet, or the clothing closest to the body, was expected to be changed by people, at least in polite society (this means not only nobility, but those trying to emulate them, the petty bourgoisie). There is an English to French manual, published at the end of the 16th/beginning of the 17th cent. which mentions this... the book gives phrases in both languages, and has the protagonist waking in the morning, and asking his mother/servant (?) for a fresh shirt, stockings, etc. In addition, we also know that a variety of whitewares (linens, from bed, table and body) were regularly washed due to an interesting artifact shown in " The Elizabethan Household" by Lena Cowen Orlin. On pg. 54 is shown a Linen counter, made of paper and brass, used to count laundry going out of the house. The artifact is held in the Agecroft Hall collection in Richmond, Va. but the text says that an identical one is at Haddon Hall in Derbyshire. The categories of laundry are as follows; Bandes, cuffs, handkerchers, Cappes, shirtes, halfshirtes, bootehose, Topps, sockes, sheetes, Pillowbeeres, Tableclothes, Napkins and towells. The first category is obscured by damage to the paper. The text along with the counter also mentions John Taylor's "The Praise of Cleane Linnen..." To conclude, I do not believe that the construction method was in any way related to the perspiration issue. Considering that many people have their doubts as to whether men and women in the 16th/17th Cents. were wearing netherbreeches, the armpit stains were probably the least of the laundresses' worries ;) I just spent two days in my linen 17th cent. shirt, worn with a linen-lined woolen doublet overtop in 75 degree weather (Farenheit, for our European friends). I also wear linen cuthose under knit woolen hose. Not to be too graphic, but the sweat wasn't confined to my pits, which is good, 'cause the great thing about linen is the wicking it does (warm in the winter and cool in the summer). Don't worry, I usually change my linens, I was trying an experiment (I even slept in it). Cheers, Mike T. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 10 23:58:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4B3wlMx002222 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 23:58:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B3rPNX002530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 May 2004 21:53:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B3rGN0062426; Mon, 10 May 2004 21:53:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4B3rFN0062415 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 21:53:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20i2.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.66] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BNOKR-0004Ml-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 10 May 2004 20:53:15 -0700 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20040510225038.02241f18@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 22:53:09 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200405110127.i4B1RuN1087101@net.indra.com> References: <200405110127.i4B1RuN1087101@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Alter Years X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Direct from Janet, by way of a flyer posted on ICG-D: >Here's the text of the flyer Janet was giving out at "Festival of the West" >announcing the new contact information for AlterYears: >__________________________ > >AlterYears is Changing! >We're moving out of the store and going to Mail Order and Will Call effective >April 1. > >New Numbers: Phone (626) 569-9179 Fax (626) 569-9099 > >New Hours: Mon Noon-4 pm, Tues, Weds, Fri - 10 am-5:30 pm, Thurs 10 am - 7:30 >pm, Sat by appointment. > >Mail Order - works just as it always has: Call us with your order and we ship >it out. > >(pencilled in) PO Box 98, Rosemead CA 91770 > >Will Call - Call us with your order; we will pullit from the warehouse and >have it ready for you to pick up - usually the next working day. Pick-up >address: 8553 Village Ln, Rosemead CA > >Need to look at stuff to decide? Call us and make an appointment for us to >take you to the warehouse. > >Questions? Call Us! HTH, Pierre and Sandy "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 11 08:00:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4BC0iMx029644 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 08:00:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4BC09NX026575 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 11 May 2004 06:00:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4BBxtN0060514; Tue, 11 May 2004 05:59:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4BBxrN0060466 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 05:59:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (pcp09369147pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [69.141.193.221]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4BBxYeO030128 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 07:59:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.3.0.0.20040510000821.05bfa3c0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:53:04 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: "Sepia Dress" (WAS: RE: [h-cost] photo) In-Reply-To: <200405061202.i46C27Je041787@net.indra.com> References: <200405061202.i46C27Je041787@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Wed, 5 May 2004 23:10:28 -0700, "Molly Boone" responded to Lisa Ashton: >Check out www.cheeptrims.com for your trim... >...I found some black spiral tube trim that would look great, although I >foresee I"m going to need a hundred yards of it... Interestingly enough, the impression *I* got of the trim is that it was crocheted! But it's not a place or period I've studied, so of course I could be wrong! Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 11 08:46:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4BCkaMx029761 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 08:46:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4BCilNX029394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 11 May 2004 06:44:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4BCijN0082882; Tue, 11 May 2004 06:44:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4BCihN0082718 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 06:44:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i4BCiST14133.; Tue, 11 May 2004 13:44:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 11 May 2004 13:44:28 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:44:08 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pre 1800s armpit protection Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mike T. wrote: [snip] > In addition, we also know that a variety of whitewares (linens, from bed, >table and body) were regularly washed due to an interesting artifact >shown in " The Elizabethan Household" by Lena Cowen Orlin. On pg. 54 >is shown a Linen counter, made of paper and brass, used to count >laundry going out of the house. The artifact is held in the Agecroft Hall >collection in Richmond, Va. but the text says that an identical one is at >Haddon Hall in Derbyshire. I can vouch for that, as I've visited Haddon Hall and seen the item on a number of occasions. They call it a "washing tally". ______________ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 11 10:25:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4BEPmMx030236 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 10:25:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4BEP2NX006764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 11 May 2004 08:25:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4BEOvN0043257; Tue, 11 May 2004 08:24:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4BEOuN0043188 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 08:24:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from MLaventure@aol.com) Received: from MLaventure@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1eb.201398b3 (3924) for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 10:24:41 -0400 (EDT) From: MLaventure@aol.com Message-ID: <1eb.201398b3.2dd23c29@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:24:41 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6800 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Alter Years X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Alteryears has moved. Here is ther current phone number 626 569-9919 and current fax number is 626 569-9909. Hope that helps. Mary LaVenture _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 11 14:41:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4BIfrMx013056 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 14:41:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4BIbuNX004722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 11 May 2004 12:37:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4BIbkN0050227; Tue, 11 May 2004 12:37:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4BIbhN0050162 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 12:37:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-92-162.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.92.162]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4BIaGZv012690 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 11:36:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040511113112.02090dd0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:38:39 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: "Sepia Dress" (WAS: RE: [h-cost] photo) In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20040510000821.05bfa3c0@earthlink.net> References: <200405061202.i46C27Je041787@net.indra.com> <200405061202.i46C27Je041787@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Interestingly enough, the impression *I* got of the trim is that it was >crocheted! > >But it's not a place or period I've studied, so of course I could be wrong! I crochet, and I assure you this trim isn't crochet. The way the loops go together is all wrong for crochet, but it's the same shape as in those sewn-braid appliques seen in contemporary mail order catalogs. I don't have any original examples of these, but the braid appliques look very much like the beaded appliques also common at this time, and I do have some of those. The beads are sewn onto a foundation of soutache which has been sewn together, probably by hand. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 11 14:45:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4BIjhMx013200 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 14:45:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4BIiPNX005831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 11 May 2004 12:44:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4BIiJN0056075; Tue, 11 May 2004 12:44:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4BIhaN0055489 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 12:43:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f3a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.58]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2F21A26286F for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 20:43:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003d01c43787$de10c490$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40A0469D.9010403@dandy.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pre 1800s armpit protection Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 20:43:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. If some of you have read Ribeiros costume in 18th century Europe, you also reads that the sleaves often rotted away long before the rest of the dress, because of the sweatting. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael tartaglio" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 5:21 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pre 1800s armpit protection > Hi, All. I do not believe that the gussetts mentioned in any way reflect > the need for replacement in the garment. They were a simple way of using > a geometric shape that followed the grainline of the fabric in such a > way as to give easement to the fit of the garment. To the contrary of > most beliefs about cleanliness of our ancestors, the singlet, or the > clothing closest to the body, was expected to be changed by people, at > least in polite society (this means not only nobility, but those trying > to emulate them, the petty bourgoisie). There is an English to French > manual, published at the end of the 16th/beginning of the 17th cent. > which mentions this... the book gives phrases in both languages, and has > the protagonist waking in the morning, and asking his mother/servant (?) > for a fresh shirt, stockings, etc. In addition, we also know that a > variety of whitewares (linens, from bed, table and body) were regularly > washed due to an interesting artifact shown in " The Elizabethan > Household" by Lena Cowen Orlin. On pg. 54 is shown a Linen counter, made > of paper and brass, used to count laundry going out of the house. The > artifact is held in the Agecroft Hall collection in Richmond, Va. but > the text says that an identical one is at Haddon Hall in Derbyshire. The > categories of laundry are as follows; Bandes, cuffs, handkerchers, > Cappes, shirtes, halfshirtes, bootehose, Topps, sockes, sheetes, > Pillowbeeres, Tableclothes, Napkins and towells. The first category is > obscured by damage to the paper. The text along with the counter also > mentions John Taylor's "The Praise of Cleane Linnen..." To conclude, I > do not believe that the construction method was in any way related to > the perspiration issue. Considering that many people have their doubts > as to whether men and women in the 16th/17th Cents. were wearing > netherbreeches, the armpit stains were probably the least of the > laundresses' worries ;) I just spent two days in my linen 17th cent. > shirt, worn with a linen-lined woolen doublet overtop in 75 degree > weather (Farenheit, for our European friends). I also wear linen cuthose > under knit woolen hose. Not to be too graphic, but the sweat wasn't > confined to my pits, which is good, 'cause the great thing about linen > is the wicking it does (warm in the winter and cool in the summer). > Don't worry, I usually change my linens, I was trying an experiment (I > even slept in it). Cheers, Mike T. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 11 15:16:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4BJGfMx014182 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 15:16:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4BJFuNX008805 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 11 May 2004 13:15:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4BJFqN0081577; Tue, 11 May 2004 13:15:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4BJFoN0081495 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 13:15:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Kitsune242@aol.com) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1aa.23c2cccd (15863) for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 15:15:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d18.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.134]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v99.12) with ESMTP id MAILINID62-3df740a126563ce; Tue, 11 May 2004 15:15:35 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:15:34 -0400 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Alter Years MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3208FCBD.32E8D463.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does this mean they now have a website or are going to be reprinting their catalog? Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 12 16:37:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4CKawMx008903 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 16:36:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4CKa2NX009547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 12 May 2004 14:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4CKZx6M077872; Wed, 12 May 2004 14:35:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4CKZr6M077718 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 14:35:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cozit@comcast.net) Received: from comcast.net (pcp04599099pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net[68.55.87.127]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004051220354201400kbn1ae> (Authid: cozit); Wed, 12 May 2004 20:35:43 +0000 Message-ID: <40A28ABD.9060205@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:36:13 -0400 From: Cozit / Liz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 15th century Southern Italian or Portugese upper class question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Teddy may not be able to get to h-costume anymore, but he posted a question in his LiveJournal yesterday, and I offered to pass it on to here for him. Unfortunately, I don't have his e-mail address anymore, but I'll toss any responses to h-costume back at him through his LJ... or you can e-mail him directly if you know his address. Teddy asks: > Any of you costumers reading this know of any good picture sources for > late 15th century (1480ish) Southern -Italian or Portugese ladies > (upper class) gowns? Someone will be calling me to discuss it sometime > soon so I'm hoping you can save me a search. Thanks in advance! Thanks! -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 12 17:07:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4CL7GMx009407 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 17:07:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4CJ1LNX028873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 12 May 2004 13:01:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4CJ0h6M003167; Wed, 12 May 2004 13:00:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4CIxS6N001644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 12:59:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4CJB5rp009758 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 15:11:08 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040512115416.00b6f268@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:59:23 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance In-Reply-To: <409C4481.7050908@yahoo.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, I'm looking for the URL of a costumer that lives in Wales. I've forgotten her name, but the URL is firstnamelastname.com and I think her first name is Sally, but I'm not sure. She's either on this list or SCA-garb, but I don't remember which. She has photos of a brilliant red gown with a skirt with a very long hem that I want to make. I thought I had book marked her URL, but apparently, I hadn't. Thanks, Katie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 12 21:04:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4D14DMx012426 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 21:04:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D0nFNX002187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 12 May 2004 18:49:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D0n76M045874; Wed, 12 May 2004 18:49:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D0n56M045852 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 18:49:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D6E51B2597 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 20:49:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 13390-07 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 20:49:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CFED91B24F4 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 20:48:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0af301c43884$14cf6070$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040512115416.00b6f268@mail.katiesorchids.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:49:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Responded privately. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Pleasance" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer > Hi, > > I'm looking for the URL of a costumer that lives in Wales. I've forgotten > her name, but the URL is firstnamelastname.com and I think her first name > is Sally, but I'm not sure. She's either on this list or SCA-garb, but I > don't remember which. > > She has photos of a brilliant red gown with a skirt with a very long hem > that I want to make. I thought I had book marked her URL, but apparently, I > hadn't. > > Thanks, > > Katie > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 12 22:53:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4D2rEMx013868 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 22:53:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D2puNX009619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 12 May 2004 20:51:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D2pr6M005825; Wed, 12 May 2004 20:51:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D2po6M005805 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 20:51:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BO6K6-0005R4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 12 May 2004 19:51:50 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:52:06 -0700 Message-ID: <003601c43895$478493d0$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <0af301c43884$14cf6070$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i4D2po6M005805 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd like to know too! Sounds interesting! > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Dianne & Greg Stucki > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 5:49 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer > > Responded privately. > > Dianne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Katie Pleasance" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:59 PM > Subject: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer > > > > Hi, > > > > I'm looking for the URL of a costumer that lives in Wales. I've forgotten > > her name, but the URL is firstnamelastname.com and I think her first name > > is Sally, but I'm not sure. She's either on this list or SCA-garb, but I > > don't remember which. > > > > She has photos of a brilliant red gown with a skirt with a very long hem > > that I want to make. I thought I had book marked her URL, but apparently, > I > > hadn't. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Katie > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 12 22:54:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4D2sQMx013878 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 22:54:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D2rmNX009696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 12 May 2004 20:53:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D2rm6M006750; Wed, 12 May 2004 20:53:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D2r06M006359 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 20:53:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BO6LD-0005hy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 12 May 2004 19:53:00 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 15th century Southern Italian or Portugese upper classquestion Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:53:15 -0700 Message-ID: <003701c43895$70e7f9b0$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <40A28ABD.9060205@comcast.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd like to see his live journal...do you have his url? He doesn't have his email there...odd. > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Cozit / Liz > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:36 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] 15th century Southern Italian or Portugese upper classquestion > > Teddy may not be able to get to h-costume anymore, but he posted a > question in his LiveJournal yesterday, and I offered to pass it on to > here for him. Unfortunately, I don't have his e-mail address anymore, > but I'll toss any responses to h-costume back at him through his LJ... > or you can e-mail him directly if you know his address. > > Teddy asks: > > > Any of you costumers reading this know of any good picture sources for > > late 15th century (1480ish) Southern -Italian or Portugese ladies > > (upper class) gowns? Someone will be calling me to discuss it sometime > > soon so I'm hoping you can save me a search. Thanks in advance! > > > > > Thanks! > -Elisabeth > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 02:39:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4D6d1Mx022105 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 02:39:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D6aoNX021607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 00:36:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D6aa6M003933; Thu, 13 May 2004 00:36:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D6aX6M003857 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 00:36:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7503E220092; Thu, 13 May 2004 01:36:00 -0500 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A727140601DA; Thu, 13 May 2004 01:35:19 -0500 Message-ID: <002f01c438b4$7f02b890$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 02:35:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Interesting on ebay X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4D6d1Mx022105 Status: RO Check this one out, printed in 1482: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2201&item=3721040983 Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 02:56:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4D6unMx024984 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 02:56:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D6uBNX022691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 00:56:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D6u96M013618; Thu, 13 May 2004 00:56:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D6u56M013553 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 00:56:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABE7284B009C; Thu, 13 May 2004 01:55:35 -0500 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABD1AD0024E; Thu, 13 May 2004 01:55:13 -0500 Message-ID: <003401c438b7$474dfb00$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002f01c438b4$7f02b890$0200a8c0@MOM> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting on ebay Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 02:55:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-DCC-COLLEGEOFNEWCALEDONIA-Metrics: net.indra.com 1189; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also check out the other auctions of this dealer. If I had the money and a climate controlled vault, I would want them! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 03:06:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4D76EMx026501 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 03:06:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D74aNX023042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 01:04:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D74Z6M017108; Thu, 13 May 2004 01:04:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxout4.netvision.net.il (mxout4.netvision.net.il [194.90.9.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D74X6M017043 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 01:04:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from zkessin@cs.brandeis.edu) Received: from pooh ([212.235.0.179]) by mxout4.netvision.net.il (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HXN000EH4Z98P@mxout4.netvision.net.il> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 13 May 2004 10:04:23 +0300 (IDT) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:04:45 +0300 (IDT) From: Yehoshua ben Haym Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century Southern Italian or Portugese upper class question In-reply-to: <40A28ABD.9060205@comcast.net> X-X-Sender: zkessin@zkessin.homelinux.net To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <40A28ABD.9060205@comcast.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What's his live journal? I'm always looking for more costume types on Livejournal. -- Yehoshua ben Haym haYerushalmi Senischal soon to be Shire of Beit Aryeh MKA Zachary Kessin Jerusalem, Israel zkessin@cs.brandeis.edu IM:ZachKessin LiveJournal: zachkessin On Wed, 12 May 2004, Cozit / Liz wrote: > Teddy may not be able to get to h-costume anymore, but he posted a > question in his LiveJournal yesterday, and I offered to pass it on to > here for him. Unfortunately, I don't have his e-mail address anymore, > but I'll toss any responses to h-costume back at him through his LJ... > or you can e-mail him directly if you know his address. > > Teddy asks: > > > Any of you costumers reading this know of any good picture sources for > > late 15th century (1480ish) Southern -Italian or Portugese ladies > > (upper class) gowns? Someone will be calling me to discuss it sometime > > soon so I'm hoping you can save me a search. Thanks in advance! > > > > > Thanks! > -Elisabeth > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 07:08:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DB8QMx013186 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 07:08:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DB7iNX003428 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 05:07:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DB7Y6M012449; Thu, 13 May 2004 05:07:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DB7S6M012380 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 05:07:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1C361B24EF for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 07:07:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 27096-10 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 07:07:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 252271B24E3 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 07:07:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0f7801c438da$77797110$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003601c43895$478493d0$6a01a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:07:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I found Ms Pointer's website addy. The page with that magnificent red dress is still there, too. I want that dress. http://www.geocities.com/sallypointer/ Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:52 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer > I'd like to know too! Sounds interesting! > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > > Behalf Of Dianne & Greg Stucki > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 5:49 PM > > To: Historical Costume > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer > > > > Responded privately. > > > > Dianne > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Katie Pleasance" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:59 PM > > Subject: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I'm looking for the URL of a costumer that lives in Wales. I've > forgotten > > > her name, but the URL is firstnamelastname.com and I think her first > name > > > is Sally, but I'm not sure. She's either on this list or SCA-garb, but I > > > don't remember which. > > > > > > She has photos of a brilliant red gown with a skirt with a very long hem > > > that I want to make. I thought I had book marked her URL, but > apparently, > > I > > > hadn't. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Katie > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 07:36:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DBZxMx013524 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 07:36:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DBZKNX004867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 05:35:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DBZI6M024006; Thu, 13 May 2004 05:35:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DBZG6N023975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 05:35:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4DBZH2x008287 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 07:35:17 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 13 May 2004 07:35:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40A35D72.60806@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:35:14 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer References: <003601c43895$478493d0$6a01a8c0@SG01> <0f7801c438da$77797110$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> In-Reply-To: <0f7801c438da$77797110$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > I found Ms Pointer's website addy. The page with that magnificent red dress > is still there, too. I want that dress. > > http://www.geocities.com/sallypointer/ Thanks for posting that! The cutting diagram for the red dress is nearly the same as for one I have from a Victorian costume book; costume minds think alike, I guess. I made a couple from this pattern before finding out about center gores; all that fabric at the side seam tends to stay right there: at the side seam, rather than distributing around properly. And if you want the floor-length-or-longer look, the wings of fabric at the side trail straight back as you walk, so you look rather like you have on a tube skirt with fullness behind. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Losing weight is like chipping away at boulder with a toothpick. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 09:46:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DDkGMx015535 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 09:46:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DDjUNX012146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 07:45:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DDjQ6M084770; Thu, 13 May 2004 07:45:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail2.mdx.safepages.com (mail2.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DDjO6M084737 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 07:45:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFBF51D1A85 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:45:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail2.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail2.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27692-04 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:45:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 94F051D16FD; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:45:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust141.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.141]) by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 541241D16FD for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:45:19 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <01b501c438f0$bc532a90$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040512115416.00b6f268@mail.katiesorchids.com> <0af301c43884$14cf6070$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:46:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can you respond publicly, too? I'd like to get a look at that! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer > Responded privately. > > Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 09:50:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DDoGMx015593 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 09:50:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DDmINX012456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 07:48:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DDmH6M086300; Thu, 13 May 2004 07:48:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail6.mdx.safepages.com (mail6.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DDmD6M086265 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 07:48:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail6.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 024F993C67 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:48:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail6.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail6.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29892-04 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:48:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail6.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 8D50093C64; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:48:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust141.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.141]) by mail6.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6326393C45 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:48:05 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <01be01c438f1$1f4006a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:49:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] watered silk taffeta X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4DDoGMx015593 Status: RO Has anyone ever found a source for 100% silk moire (watered) taffeta? And how exactly was it made, anyway, in case I can't ever find the stuff--does one just put water spots in the right pattern, or is it more complicated than that? -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 09:57:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DDvaMx015718 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 09:57:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DDuqNX012902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 07:56:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DDuq6M091092; Thu, 13 May 2004 07:56:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DDuo6M091023 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 07:56:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f36.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.54]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5E1EF2628CD for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 15:56:45 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000601c438f2$21438250$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <01be01c438f1$1f4006a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] watered silk taffeta Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:56:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Silk taffeta is hard steamed with wax on watered pattern. It is very very difficult to find in silk. If you do, let me know. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:49 PM Subject: [h-cost] watered silk taffeta Has anyone ever found a source for 100% silk moire (watered) taffeta? And how exactly was it made, anyway, in case I can't ever find the stuff--does one just put water spots in the right pattern, or is it more complicated than that? -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 09:58:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DDwpMx015744 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 09:58:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DDwGNX012995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 07:58:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DDwG6M091889; Thu, 13 May 2004 07:58:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DDvG6M091224 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 07:57:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.126.40d4f478 (18251) for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 09:56:55 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <126.40d4f478.2dd4d8a7@aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:56:55 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] watered silk taffeta To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5027 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/13/2004 9:49:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, formfunc@formfunction.org writes: And how exactly was it made, anyway, in case I can't ever find the stuff--does one just put water spots in the right pattern, or is it more complicated than that? I believe it's done with patterned and heated? rollers. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 10:08:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DE8CMx015887 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 10:08:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DE7UNX013717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 08:07:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DE7R6M097300; Thu, 13 May 2004 08:07:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail5.mdx.safepages.com (mail5.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DE706M097080 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 08:07:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D76191CC2DA for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 14:07:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail5.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail5.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 98089-03 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 14:07:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 997CC1CC3E6; Thu, 13 May 2004 14:07:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust141.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.141]) by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9BA4B1CC3E5 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 14:06:59 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <020801c438f3$c2187e50$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <126.40d4f478.2dd4d8a7@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] watered silk taffeta Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:08:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I should probably rephrase--does anyone know how it was done c1660-65? Was it done the same way? That process doesn't sound technologically out of reach for c1660, but it wouldn't surprise me if the process started out, well, less complicated...? -E (planning to duplicate that pink corset at the V&A, and if that baleen thing happens...!!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 10:17:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DEHHMx016007 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 10:17:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DEGNNX014365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 08:16:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DEGD6M002687; Thu, 13 May 2004 08:16:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DEG96N002640 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 08:16:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4DEG92x009135 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 10:16:10 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 13 May 2004 10:16:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40A38327.7050007@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:16:07 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] watered silk taffeta References: <126.40d4f478.2dd4d8a7@aol.com> <020801c438f3$c2187e50$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <020801c438f3$c2187e50$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO E House wrote: > I should probably rephrase--does anyone know how it was done c1660-65? Was I read in a book about silk (can't remember the name, but it seemed well researched) that they used to take two lengths of slightly ribbed silk (faille?) and iron them (possibly with heated rollers like they use to iron sheets in big hotels these days) together. This produced an interference pattern like you get with light/optics, or two ripples in a pond, but in the fabric. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Losing weight is like chipping away at boulder with a toothpick. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 10:22:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DEMeMx016090 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 10:22:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DEKKNX014655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 08:20:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DEKJ6M005446; Thu, 13 May 2004 08:20:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DEKF6M005388 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 08:20:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA22588 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 09:20:14 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:20:14 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <002f01c438b4$7f02b890$0200a8c0@MOM> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Looking for pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm looking for a gown pattern I saw in an old Amazon Drygoods catalog several years ago.(I long since lent the catalog to someone who couldn't return it). It was a gown reportedly worn by a woman who escaped from France into England during the French Revolution and is a good example of the transition of gown style from the robe l'anglais to the high-waisted classical mode during the 1790's. If I recall correctly, the company that sold this pattern also sold one for Charlotte Bronte's wedding dress. Thanks for any help in locating the pattern and any sellers. Cindy Abel brujne@creighton.edu _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 10:29:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DETYMx016199 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 10:29:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DERPNX015371 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 08:27:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DERO6M010124; Thu, 13 May 2004 08:27:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DERK6M010091 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 08:27:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f36.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.54]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A420926285F for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 16:27:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000d01c438f6$67c831e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:27:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] boned bodice foundation 1766 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4DETYMx016199 Status: RO Hi, Here i send you a link for one of my works in vain. This hard work i have to discharge. The neckline is two horisontal and should have ben much rounder. I think my dress stand has two broad shoulders, i dont know but several days of work is done in vain. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sophiabodice.htm Well i think also that the waistline is two low, many things are wrong. I want it to be perfect this time for the museum, so back to work............... Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 10:39:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DEdsMx016367 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 10:39:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DEdFNX016473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 08:39:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DEdC6M018081; Thu, 13 May 2004 08:39:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DEdA6M018015 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 08:39:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a224.in-tch.com [66.62.107.24]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4DEFGe10057 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 08:15:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40A38965.8030603@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:42:45 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting on ebay References: <002f01c438b4$7f02b890$0200a8c0@MOM> In-Reply-To: <002f01c438b4$7f02b890$0200a8c0@MOM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny, you are completely *evil* (in a very nice way, of course!) --sue, drooling into her morning tea.... Penny Ladnier wrote: > Check this one out, printed in 1482: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2201&item=3721040983 > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 10:56:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DEu0Mx016588 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 10:56:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DEt9NX018031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 08:55:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DEt76M029098; Thu, 13 May 2004 08:55:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DEt36N029041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 08:55:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-96.sonic.net [209.148.112.96]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4DEsxeH008091 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 07:55:01 -0700 Message-ID: <40A38D53.2050306@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:59:31 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for pattern References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It was published by the Northern Society of Costume and Textiles and is sold on their website: http://www.nsct.org.uk/ They also sell several other patterns, including one of Charlotte Bronte's going-away dress. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costume http://www.lavoltapress.com Cindy Abel wrote: >I'm looking for a gown pattern I saw in an old Amazon Drygoods catalog >several years ago.(I long since lent the catalog to someone who couldn't >return it). It was a gown reportedly worn by a woman who escaped from France >into England during the French Revolution and is a good example of the >transition of gown style from the robe l'anglais to the high-waisted >classical mode during the 1790's. If I recall correctly, the company that >sold this pattern also sold one for Charlotte Bronte's wedding dress. > >Thanks for any help in locating the pattern and any sellers. > >Cindy Abel >brujne@creighton.edu > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 11:28:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DFS6Mx017088 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 11:28:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DFQ7NX021204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 09:26:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DFQ46M052295; Thu, 13 May 2004 09:26:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav32.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DFPq6M052103 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 09:25:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 13 May 2004 08:25:46 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.72 by bay1-dav32.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 13 May 2004 15:25:45 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.72] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40A38D53.2050306@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for pattern Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:25:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 May 2004 15:25:46.0027 (UTC) FILETIME=[8FE5D7B0:01C438FE] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO WOW. And such great prices for a really decent pattern. You really don't see that often. Site is incredibly easy to navigate too. ============================= http://kristalori.com http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- > It was published by the Northern Society of Costume and Textiles and is > sold on their website: > > http://www.nsct.org.uk/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 11:54:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DFsqMx017422 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 11:54:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DFr0NX024046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 09:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DFqw6M073600; Thu, 13 May 2004 09:52:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DFqs6N073552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 09:52:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4DG4erp017939 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:04:50 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513085035.00b71010@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:52:39 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer In-Reply-To: <0f7801c438da$77797110$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> References: <003601c43895$478493d0$6a01a8c0@SG01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah, thank you. In the middle of the night I thought it might be 'sallypainter', so I got up and turned on the computer -- but that URL didn't work so I went back to bed . Katie >I found Ms Pointer's website addy. The page with that magnificent red dress >is still there, too. I want that dress. >http://www.geocities.com/sallypointer/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 12:41:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DGfWMx017781 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:41:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DGeaNX029287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 10:40:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DGeW6M012945; Thu, 13 May 2004 10:40:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tmailb1.svr.pol.co.uk (tmailb1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.168.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DGeV6M012885 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 10:40:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hbgd103@soton.ac.uk) Received: from modem-750.aerodactyl.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.135.8.238] helo=soton.ac.uk) by tmailb1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1BOJFq-0001N0-2b for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 13 May 2004 17:40:18 +0100 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:32:15 +0100 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pre 1800s armpit protection Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Hilary Davidson To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <003d01c43787$de10c490$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-Id: <185CD4E4-A4FB-11D8-9D2C-000A9567E116@soton.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's thought now that this rotting is caused by eighteenth century dresses being worn as fancy dress in the nineteenth century. Pristine 18th c dresses in PLatt Hall, for example, show no particular deterioration under the arms, where altered dresses or ones known to have been worn later do. Ribeiro, bless her, didn't update a lot of material when she revised the book for the later edition. (she also says that farthingales were stiffened with 'wood' in the Cambridge history of western textiles. I suppose this is technically true, but 'willow' is a more accurate word, and wood conjurs up for me images of polygonal hoops of 2 x 4, creating a skirt shape kind of like a dalek.....) > Hi. > If some of you have read Ribeiros costume in 18th century Europe, you > also > reads that the sleaves often rotted away long before the rest of the > dress, > because of the sweatting. > > Bjarne > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "michael tartaglio" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 5:21 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pre 1800s armpit protection > > >> Hi, All. I do not believe that the gussetts mentioned in any way >> reflect >> the need for replacement in the garment. They were a simple way of >> using >> a geometric shape that followed the grainline of the fabric in such a >> way as to give easement to the fit of the garment. To the contrary of >> most beliefs about cleanliness of our ancestors, the singlet, or the >> clothing closest to the body, was expected to be changed by people, at >> least in polite society (this means not only nobility, but those >> trying >> to emulate them, the petty bourgoisie). There is an English to French >> manual, published at the end of the 16th/beginning of the 17th cent. >> which mentions this... the book gives phrases in both languages, and >> has >> the protagonist waking in the morning, and asking his mother/servant >> (?) >> for a fresh shirt, stockings, etc. In addition, we also know that a >> variety of whitewares (linens, from bed, table and body) were >> regularly >> washed due to an interesting artifact shown in " The Elizabethan >> Household" by Lena Cowen Orlin. On pg. 54 is shown a Linen counter, >> made >> of paper and brass, used to count laundry going out of the house. The >> artifact is held in the Agecroft Hall collection in Richmond, Va. but >> the text says that an identical one is at Haddon Hall in Derbyshire. >> The >> categories of laundry are as follows; Bandes, cuffs, handkerchers, >> Cappes, shirtes, halfshirtes, bootehose, Topps, sockes, sheetes, >> Pillowbeeres, Tableclothes, Napkins and towells. The first category is >> obscured by damage to the paper. The text along with the counter also >> mentions John Taylor's "The Praise of Cleane Linnen..." To conclude, >> I >> do not believe that the construction method was in any way related to >> the perspiration issue. Considering that many people have their doubts >> as to whether men and women in the 16th/17th Cents. were wearing >> netherbreeches, the armpit stains were probably the least of the >> laundresses' worries ;) I just spent two days in my linen 17th >> cent. >> shirt, worn with a linen-lined woolen doublet overtop in 75 degree >> weather (Farenheit, for our European friends). I also wear linen >> cuthose >> under knit woolen hose. Not to be too graphic, but the sweat wasn't >> confined to my pits, which is good, 'cause the great thing about linen >> is the wicking it does (warm in the winter and cool in the summer). >> Don't worry, I usually change my linens, I was trying an experiment (I >> even slept in it). Cheers, Mike T. >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 12:42:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DGgiMx017792 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:42:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DGg7NX029464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 10:42:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DGg76M014291; Thu, 13 May 2004 10:42:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DGSI6M002708 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 10:28:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id AA9035CC590; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:28:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0182.floodcity.net [198.93.211.182]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE4F05CC4ED for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:27:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40A3A11E.C63C3ABF@floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:23:58 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for pattern References: <40A38D53.2050306@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-EATSERVER-Metrics: net.indra.com 1166; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh I like that french revolution dress. that's lovely. Lavolta Press wrote: > > It was published by the Northern Society of Costume and Textiles and is > sold on their website: > > http://www.nsct.org.uk/ > > They also sell several other patterns, including one of Charlotte > Bronte's going-away dress. > > Fran > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costume > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > Cindy Abel wrote: > > >I'm looking for a gown pattern I saw in an old Amazon Drygoods catalog > >several years ago.(I long since lent the catalog to someone who couldn't > >return it). It was a gown reportedly worn by a woman who escaped from France > >into England during the French Revolution and is a good example of the > >transition of gown style from the robe l'anglais to the high-waisted > >classical mode during the 1790's. If I recall correctly, the company that > >sold this pattern also sold one for Charlotte Bronte's wedding dress. > > > >Thanks for any help in locating the pattern and any sellers. > > > >Cindy Abel > >brujne@creighton.edu > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 12:58:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DGwPMx018009 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:58:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DGuXNX001095 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 10:56:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DGuR6M026341; Thu, 13 May 2004 10:56:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DGuL6N026224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 10:56:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4DH8Arp003738 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:08:15 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513090622.00b8bcc8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:56:10 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer In-Reply-To: <0f7801c438da$77797110$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> References: <003601c43895$478493d0$6a01a8c0@SG01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's the Red Dress Page: http://www.sallypointer.com/reddress Drool -- For me, it's the color -- and the fullness of the skirt. Here's the fabric I hope to use -- a luscious berry-red: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3290703267&category=29821&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWN%3AIT&rd=1 Will 7 yards be enough with lots of gores and no-nap layout? I love Ms Pointer's Red Dress's color and the neckline, but don't like the way it fits on Ms Pointer -- it's a bit baggy in places. I'm thinking of using a multiple-gore design, such as: http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/herjol38.html Ya gotta unnerstand -- I have this thing about gores. My current project - a Kinsale Cloak, started with three panels with a 9 foot hem but has expanded to 7 gores and a 27 foot hem. Gores rule! Anyway, when the Kinsale Cloak is finished, I'll post the dress diary / construction log, the spreadsheet used to calculate the gore sizes, and the CAD drawings showing cutting layout and assembly on Katiesgarb.com (which doesn't exist yet). Using something like Herjolfsnes #38 as a starting point, I should be able to get something that fits snuggly in the bodice but flows gracefully in the skirt, like the servant woman descending the stairs at the left: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/u/uccello/2prato/03prato.html Can you tell that I like red dresses ? Under it, I want to wear a corded corset for support and shaping, as described here: http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/cording/cord.html But before this project I have to finish the Kinsale Cloak and I promised My Lord Husband that I'd make myself some mundane clothes so that I don't embarrass him in public. Garb is soooo much more fun than mundane clothes ... Heck, I'll just wear the Berry Red Dress as mundane clothes, and if anybody wants to stare, let 'em! ,,, With some red-stoned chandelier earrings, too. Hey, I'm going on 60 and intend to *enjoy* my second childhood -- especially my second teen years ... Katie >I found Ms Pointer's website addy. The page with that magnificent red dress >is still there, too. I want that dress. >http://www.geocities.com/sallypointer/ >Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 13:02:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DH2MMx018057 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:02:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DH0QNX001622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 11:00:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DH0P6M029878; Thu, 13 May 2004 11:00:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DH0M6N029824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 11:00:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4DHCHrp005044 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:12:18 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513095643.02f50d70@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:00:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer In-Reply-To: <40A35D72.60806@thibault.org> References: <0f7801c438da$77797110$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> <003601c43895$478493d0$6a01a8c0@SG01> <0f7801c438da$77797110$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm assuming that gores will resolve the problems that you describe, no? Hmm, toes-peaking-out length in front with a slight train in back, something like some of the regency gowns had? Oh, oh! I'm daydreaming again! Katie > I made a couple from this pattern before finding out about center gores; > all that fabric at the side seam tends to stay right there: at the side > seam, rather than distributing around properly. And if you want the > floor-length-or-longer look, the wings of fabric at the side trail > straight back as you walk, so you look rather like you have on a tube > skirt with fullness behind. >Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 13:07:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DH7PMx018093 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:07:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DH5DNX002201 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 11:05:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DH4o6M033410; Thu, 13 May 2004 11:04:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80512.mail.yahoo.com (web80512.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4DH1U6M030677 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 11:01:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040513170122.64665.qmail@web80512.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.104.228.236] by web80512.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 13 May 2004 10:01:22 PDT Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:01:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405131409.i4DE8w6N098233@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: watered silk taffeta X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO E House wrote: > I should probably rephrase--does anyone know how it > was done c1660-65? Was > it done the same way? That process doesn't sound > technologically out of > reach for c1660, but it wouldn't surprise me if the > process started out, > well, less complicated...? > > -E (planning to duplicate that pink corset at the > V&A, and if that baleen > thing happens...!!) Luca Mola's history of the Italian silk industry has a complete description of how watered silks were produced, including (IIRC) a wood-cut of the process. Basically, it's an added step at the end of the calendaring process, where the cloth is run between a set of heated rollers that have a "watermark" pattern etched into them, transferring the pattern to the cloth. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 13:26:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DHQjMx018339 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:26:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DHQ8NX004547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 11:26:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DHQ06M051805; Thu, 13 May 2004 11:26:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DHPs6M051649 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 11:25:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.184] (pm5-184.eos.net [205.133.149.184]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DHOLC7016655 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:24:35 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:23:08 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200405131409.i4DE8w6N098233@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: red dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Cynthia wrote: >> >> http://www.geocities.com/sallypointer/ > > Thanks for posting that! > > The cutting diagram for the red dress is nearly the same as for one I > have from a Victorian costume book; costume minds think alike, I guess. > > I made a couple from this pattern before finding out about center > gores; all that fabric at the side seam tends to stay right there: at > the side seam, rather than distributing around properly. And if you > want the floor-length-or-longer look, the wings of fabric at the side > trail straight back as you walk, so you look rather like you have on a > tube skirt with fullness behind. I second Cynthia's diagnosis -- huge side gores stay at the sides. That doesn't mean they look bad, but they DO stay at the sides. Sally Pointer's web site also has a pattern for a dress with four smaller gores, and if you follow that you will get a skirt that's evenly distributed. I make my gowns very much like this pattern. It's more complicated than the red dress pattern, but it fits better. The four-piece body allows a lot of fitting, and makes setting the center gores easy. My "good" gowns are VERY fitted, and have set-in sleeves. I am curvy, so I interline the bodices so that they are tight enough. But I have made some "work" dresses, much like Sally's, with rectangular sleeves made to fit with the little underarm gores. It's all straight line sewing, except for a little fitting on all four body seams, and the look is very good. Something about the gored skirt and the non-set-in sleeves makes a very "non-modern" impression. I would recommend trying this, even for people who are nervous about sewing without a pattern. It's very simple. But either way, you don't waste a lot of fabric. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 13:28:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DHSUMx018356 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:28:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DHRuNX004801 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 11:27:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DHRs6M053491; Thu, 13 May 2004 11:27:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DHQS6M052258 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 11:26:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.184] (pm5-184.eos.net [205.133.149.184]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DHPsC7017051 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:25:54 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:24:41 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200405131409.i4DE8w6N098233@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: red dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Cynthia wrote: >> >> http://www.geocities.com/sallypointer/ > > Thanks for posting that! > > The cutting diagram for the red dress is nearly the same as for one I > have from a Victorian costume book; costume minds think alike, I guess. > > I made a couple from this pattern before finding out about center > gores; all that fabric at the side seam tends to stay right there: at > the side seam, rather than distributing around properly. And if you > want the floor-length-or-longer look, the wings of fabric at the side > trail straight back as you walk, so you look rather like you have on a > tube skirt with fullness behind. I second Cynthia's diagnosis -- huge side gores stay at the sides. That doesn't mean they look bad, but they DO stay at the sides. Sally Pointer's web site also has a pattern for a dress with four smaller gores, and if you follow that you will get a skirt that's evenly distributed. I make my gowns very much like this pattern. It's more complicated than the red dress pattern, but it fits better. The four-piece body allows a lot of fitting, and makes setting the center gores easy. My "good" gowns are VERY fitted, and have set-in sleeves. I am curvy, so I interline the bodices so that they are tight enough. But I have made some "work" dresses, much like Sally's, with rectangular sleeves made to fit with the little underarm gores. It's all straight line sewing, except for a little fitting on all four body seams, and the look is very good. Something about the gored skirt and the non-set-in sleeves makes a very "non-modern" impression. I would recommend trying this, even for people who are nervous about sewing without a pattern. It's very simple. But either way, you don't waste a lot of fabric. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 14:07:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DI7oMx019926 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 14:07:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DI70NX009231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 12:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DI6r6M085727; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:06:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20205.mail.yahoo.com (web20205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4DI6o6M085685 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:06:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040513180650.49688.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:50 PDT Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Kessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513090622.00b8bcc8@mail.katiesorchids.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Katie Pleasance wrote: > I'm thinking of > using a multiple-gore design, such as: > http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/herjol38.html > > > Using something like Herjolfsnes #38 as a starting > point, I should be able > to get something that fits snuggly in the bodice but > flows gracefully in > the skirt, like the servant woman descending the > stairs at the left: Not to rain on your parade, but, as it says in the article on the page you referenced, "Based on the measurements above and observations made by Robin Netherton, and work done with mock-ups, this item is clearly not a "cote-hardi" of any kind, it is not closely fitted. Netherton also stipulates that Norlund's drawings are not consistent with his written measurements and are most likely inaccurate, and so should be used cautiously. She adds that later authors' re-interpretations of those drawings appear to be increasingly removed in accuracy from the original. (That observation, I should note, also applies to the drawing above.)" Robin Netherton describes a method that will give you that wonderfully fitted look, but it does not depend on multiple side gores. Unfortunately, I don't have the time right now to do justice to trying to explain it. Also, > > Under it, I want to wear a corded corset for support > and shaping, as > described here: > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/cording/cord.html > The author of this page clearly is aiming her method at later time periods, like 16th century. I am inclined to agree with the school of thought that says the dresses you are aiming for were not worn with corsets. (But of course, we have no direct evidence.) Good luck with your project! -Angela __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 14:12:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DICfMx019964 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 14:12:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DIAkNX009611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 12:10:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DIAY6M088581; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:10:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf27.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf27.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DI9p6M087836 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:09:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CatDevereaux@alleycatscratch.com) Received: from Maxwell (66-214-162-184.riv-eres.charterpipeline.net [66.214.162.184]) by mxsf27.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4DI8X54001851 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 14:08:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Cat Devereaux" To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: watered silk taffeta Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:08:35 -0700 Message-ID: <004501c43915$4f4624f0$b8a2d642@Maxwell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <200405131729.i4DHTW6O054853@net.indra.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I should probably rephrase--does anyone know how it > was done c1660-65? Was > it done the same way? That process doesn't sound technologically out > of reach for c1660, but it wouldn't surprise me if the > process started out, > well, less complicated...? I remember the explanation from one of the docents at the LA Country Museum when they had their 18th century clothing display. This was 15+ years ago. However, not sure if it's accurate or an old wives tale as so many of the older "true" docent stories are. He said that the watered silk was created by wetting down the silk. Folding it into the small panels (3-6 inches) putting this carefully between boards and letting the whole thing dry in the sun for a week. -Cat- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 14:14:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DIEYMx019990 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 14:14:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DICfNX009838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 12:12:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DICd6M090526; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:12:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lsmtp.okstate.edu (lsmtp.okstate.edu [139.78.101.146]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DIAi6M088670 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:10:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bilescl@okstate.edu) Received: from osu-ns05.cis.okstate.edu by lsmtp.okstate.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.047C1336@lsmtp.okstate.edu>; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:10:35 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.12 February 13, 2003 From: Christina L Biles Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:10:34 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on osu-ns05/Okstate(Release 6.0.2CF1|June 9, 2003) at 05/13/2004 01:10:35 PM, Serialize complete at 05/13/2004 01:10:35 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-DCC-meer-Metrics: net.indra.com 1086; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i4DIAi6M088670 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] watered silk taffeta X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO According to their website, they weave to order. "Finishing - as required by our customers, very often this includes a traditional moiré (a wavy watermark finish). For more information contact the General Manager on silkmill@btinternet.com" I've never ordered from them, but a quick Google search found this which got me to the mill. Expensive I'm sure, but if you really, really want it, you can get it. -Christina ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:49 PM Subject: [h-cost] watered silk taffeta Has anyone ever found a source for 100% silk moire (watered) taffeta? And how exactly was it made, anyway, in case I can't ever find the stuff--does one just put water spots in the right pattern, or is it more complicated than that? -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 14:38:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DIcNMx020220 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 14:38:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DIYvNX011854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 12:34:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DIYq6M008034; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:34:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from incoming.SIGENETICS.com ([209.172.110.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DIYo6M007890 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:34:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sbuchler@silicongenetics.com) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 15th century Southern Italian or Portugese upper Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:34:42 -0700 Message-ID: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90D26EA@incoming.sigenetics.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 325 Thread-Index: AcQ49Kiks8PXQZBjRzK5KPp3m3oyRgAIs1ig From: "Sunny Buchler" To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i4DIYo6M007890 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Any of you costumers reading this know of any good picture > sources for > > late 15th century (1480ish) Southern -Italian or Portugese ladies > > (upper class) gowns? Someone will be calling me to discuss > it sometime > > soon so I'm hoping you can save me a search. Thanks in advance! Try _Hispanic Costume: 1480-1530_ by Ruth M. Anderson. This doesn't cover any Italian, but it does cover Portuguese. And, even better, the book is back in print! It's worth twice the price Amazon is asking for (in my opinion :-) ). One of those books that I wish I'd written :-). There's not a lot of color photos, but lots of black-and-white and detail shots. It does in-depth photo-research from the undergarments through sleeves and hairstyles. There are no existent garments for this time/place, so all of the pictures are paintings or engravings. -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 14:51:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DIpeMx020406 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 14:51:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DIokNX013627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 12:50:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DIog6M020368; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:50:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DIoc6N020252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:50:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4DJ2Rrp007327 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 15:02:31 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513114245.00ba1eb8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:50:26 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance In-Reply-To: <20040513180650.49688.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513090622.00b8bcc8@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Red Dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I appreciate your post regarding historical accuracy. In this project I am not concerned with historical accuracy, but with creating a pretty dress. I think that the use of multiple gores and the corded corset will help me achieve that goal. The Herjolfsnes #38 or similar would be, as indicated in my post, a starting point and nothing more. I will also be looking at other multiple-gore gowns for inspiration. I mentioned Herjolfsnes #38 merely because it is an example of a gown with many full-length gores. Katie > > I'm thinking of > > using a multiple-gore design, such as: >http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/herjol38.html > > Using something like Herjolfsnes #38 as a starting > > point, I should be able > > to get something that fits snuggly in the bodice but > > flows gracefully in > > the skirt, like the servant woman descending the > > stairs at the left: > >Not to rain on your parade, but, as it says in the >article on the page you referenced, "Based on the >measurements above and observations made by Robin >Netherton, and work done with mock-ups, this item is >clearly not a "cote-hardi" of any kind, it is not >closely fitted. Netherton also stipulates that >Norlund's drawings are not consistent with his written >measurements and are most likely inaccurate, and so >should be used cautiously. She adds that later >authors' re-interpretations of those drawings appear >to be increasingly removed in accuracy from the >original. (That observation, I should note, also >applies to the drawing above.)" > >Robin Netherton describes a method that will give you >that wonderfully fitted look, but it does not depend >on multiple side gores. Unfortunately, I don't have >the time right now to do justice to trying to explain >it. > >http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/cording/cord.html >The author of this page clearly is aiming her method >at later time periods, like 16th century. I am >inclined to agree with the school of thought that says >the dresses you are aiming for were not worn with >corsets. (But of course, we have no direct evidence.) > >Good luck with your project! >-Angela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 14:55:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DIt3Mx020440 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 14:55:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DIrGNX013897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 12:53:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DIrG6M022255; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:53:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DIrC6N022217 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:53:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4DJ59rp008043 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 15:05:10 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513115031.027034f0@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:53:08 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance In-Reply-To: <20040513180650.49688.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513090622.00b8bcc8@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] garment definitions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anybody know of a website that has a list of medieval / Renaissance garments annotated with the distinguishing characteristics of each? I'm still new enough that if you showed me a biaut and a cotehardie, I wouldn't be able to say which is which. Thanks, Katie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 15:12:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DJCDMx020569 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 15:12:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DJABNX015808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 13:10:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DJA26M035702; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:10:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DJA06M035583 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:10:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from archaeosoft1 (c-24-16-245-183.client.comcast.net[24.16.245.183]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004051319095201200gvrlse>; Thu, 13 May 2004 19:09:53 +0000 Message-ID: <009b01c439e7$1542e270$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> From: "Gia" To: "Historical Costume" , "Aquaterra Reeds" , "Bowslaire List" , "An Tir Costumers" Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:10:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fw: FABRIC.COM: Linen on Sale, Ambiance Lining X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4DJCDMx020569 Status: RO Hi everyone! I don't remember where I read this, but someone was looking to buy some linen...one of my favorite web-based fabric sources has a sale going on right now. Emer \ Gia back to lurking mode ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Friedman To: gia_gavino@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 11:10 AM Subject: FABRIC.COM: Linen on Sale, Ambiance Lining 2151 Northwest Parkway Ste. 500 Marietta, GA 30067 1-888-455-2940 www.fabric.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greetings from Atlanta! Stephen is away on a mini vacation, so I get to tell you about all the terrific things we have for you today! The first thing I need to tell you is the Timtex is back in stock! And, another shipment is on the way! We know this is a very popular item. We are trying to be more consistant in keeping it in stock for you. We have a sale on linen, some beautiful new linings, a groovy flannel group and a lot more to tell you about, so let's go shopping! Kristl -------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Real Deal I am so excited that Linen Season is finally here! I live in linen as many months out of the year as possible. When Stephen asked me what I thought the next Real Deal Sale should be, I said ''Linen, of course!'' So, here it is! We have taken 20% off all our apparel linen. These prices are good through Thursday, May 20th. We have a terrific selection of linen blends, 100% linens, embroidered and stretch linen, so dig in! Click here to go to this item. Ambiance Bemberg Lining We have been finding couturier fabrics for you for a few years now. We are pleased to offer you a couturier lining to go with them. The Ambiance Bemberg Lining is a cupro rayon. It's a very smooth, anti-static lining that has moisture absorption and release properties. Line your jackets, trousers, skirts and dresses with Ambiance for exceptional comfort and an even better fit. It's 100% rayon, 45'' wide and $6.95 a yard. Click here to go to this item. Promotional Dupioni Silk We have just added some juicy colors to the Promotional Dupioni Silk sections. We have Peacock Green, Cobalt Blue, Ivories and Creams, all the colors you love at our exceptional price. They are 100% silk, 54'' wide and $9.95 a yard. Click here to go to this item. Happy Hippiez Flannel The colors and patterns in this flannel coordinate group are happy indeed. This single napped designer flannel (brushed on the face only) is perfect for quilting or pajamas. It's 100% cotton, 45'' wide and $4.35 a yard. We even have an assortment of 25 half-yard pieces for those who need a lot of color! Click here to go to this item. Block Party This colorful coordinating group includes stripes, checks, cute patches and a print with childern all over. They are 100% cotton, 45'' wide and $4.35 a yard. We also have a half-yard assortment available for this group. Click here to go to this item. Down Meadow Lane This nostalgic coordinate group features earthtones and ''muddy'' colors with a countryside theme. They are 100% cotton, 45'' wide and $4.35 a yard. We have created a half-yard assortmnet that includes all the prints, too. Click here to go to this item. Jacquard Symphonic This is another installment in our fabulous new re-orderable home decorating Jacquards. This group features swirling scrolls, florals and a diamond check that come in Black, Cinnabar red and a beautiful taupe color called Stone. These are multi-purpose fabrics that will be great for upholstery as well as drapes, duvets and pillows. Try mixing them with the Jacquard Raphael group! They are 50% cotton/50% polyester, 54'' wide and $9.95 a yard. Handbag designers take note! Click here to go to this item. Home Decorating Yardage Estimators We have just added a new feature to our web site in the Home Decorating Section. We have created a section for yardage charts and estimators for upholstering, drapes and much more. We hope this tool helps you make your decisions about your home decor projects easier! Click here to go to this item. On Line Sewing Classes Our friends at Patternreview.com have added some exciting new classes I wanted to tell you about! For those of you who are intrigued with drafting your own patterns, but have little or no experience, we have the classes for you. Drafting & Styling Skirts and Drafting & Stying Sleeves will help you add your own flair to your garmants. PatternReview.com will be adding new clases in the next week as well, so please check back with us. Click here to go to this item. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please feel free to contact us if you have questions or prefer to call your order in. Our toll-free number is 888-455-2940 and customer service can be contacted at http://www.fabric.com/contact/ We accept all major credit cards, PayPal, and checks. Thank you for shopping with us at http://www.fabric.com If you would like to change from this HTML version of our update to a text only version, just click on http://www.fabric.com/email/ You are receiving this e-mail as a result of either (a) signing up to receive the fabric.com newsletter or (b) making a purchase from fabric.com. These are regular weekly e-mails. TO BE REMOVED from this list, click on the following link: http://www.fabric.com/cgi%2Dlocal/remove_me.cgi?address=gia_gavino@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 15:14:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DJEBMx020579 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 15:14:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DJDcNX016226 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 13:13:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DJDb6M038652; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:13:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20204.mail.yahoo.com (web20204.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4DJDV6M038599 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:13:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040513191330.80928.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:13:30 PDT Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:13:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Kessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] Red Dress To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513114245.00ba1eb8@mail.katiesorchids.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Katie Pleasance wrote: > > In this project I am not concerned with historical > accuracy, but with > creating a pretty dress. In that case, have fun! :) -Angela P.S. Speaking of non-historical accuracy, I have to crow that I just finished a reversible wedding gown, and it seems to have turned out extremely functional! The wedding is not for a couple of weeks, so I am eagerly awaiting reports of whether there will be any perspiration damage to the fabric on the inside of the bodice when it gets switched to the outside, but I warned my client that that might happen. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 15:23:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DJNiMx020652 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 15:23:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DJMsNX017069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 13:22:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DJMl6M046135; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:22:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail4.mdx.safepages.com (mail4.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DJMW6M045938 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:22:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF0427105 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 19:22:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail4.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail4.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 82785-09 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 19:22:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 9C09027103; Thu, 13 May 2004 19:22:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust43.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.43]) by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3539D2711B for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 19:22:27 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <026101c4391f$d4e42f30$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040513180650.49688.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:23:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO But a fitted version of H-38 makes a wonderfully fun modern dress, anyway. This site: http://www.damehelen.com does a good job of showing you how to cut one. For a gown of similar cut (see below) with ~5 yds hem and fitted sleeves, I generally need ~3.5 yds of 60" fabric (size 10-12 tall); 7 yards would give you a very nice amount of hem. And while H-38 isn't a fitted dress and wasn't meant to be more than slightly shaped, there is a similar cut that was used later in the 15th century. Picture H-38; now picture a center back seam in the back panel, and the two sides of that back panel reeeallly skinny at the waist--like 1"-2". The side panels become wider at the waist; the front panel is also cut narrower at the waist. The front-side seam follows a curve similar to that of a Dame Helen-style fitted H-38, but is, well, curvier. It falls down the side of the bust (an inch or two forward of where the underwire of a bra would be) then, just below the bust, it follows that imaginary underwire towards the center front for another inch or two, then gently curves straight down. (This oddly curvy line actually makes great structural sense; by cutting it like this, the underbust curve of the front panel becomes much more gradual, which means that the underbust pull required for a self-supporting gown isn't concentrated on one tiny spot along that side-front seam.) This style is more likely to have fewer than 4 gores on either side (generally 3 or 2, as in the Fouquet painting*) but may have as many as 5 in some paintings. That image that I mentioned in the Flemish book thread? Shows a good view of the back of this style of dress, even at low resolution, although for documentation purposes that painting is a bit problematic. If anyone is interested in several images of this style of dress, email me off-list ...and expect to fail to get an answer for at least a week, since I have 47 projects I'm going back and forth between and it'll take me a while to sort through the images. -E (The Fouquet painting shows a version of the style I'm talking about, but it is unusual in how close to the erm, point of the bust that side-front seam goes. In that painting, the seam is still to the outside of the point of the bust by at least an inch, which for comfort's sake is very important in a self-supporting gown--can we say chafing?--but is several inches inwards of the norm for this style. It's possible that if the gown were laced, and everything were shoved back in place rather than hanging out in her armpits, the seam would fall along more normal lines.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 15:35:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DJZoMx020787 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 15:35:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DJZBNX018426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 13:35:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DJZ76M056508; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:35:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail4.mdx.safepages.com (mail4.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DJZ56M056479 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:35:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223AC26F34 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 19:35:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail4.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail4.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02840-09 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 19:35:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id E4B2226FA8; Thu, 13 May 2004 19:35:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust43.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.43]) by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id EC7CE26FD9 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 19:35:03 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <028801c43921$975831a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] watered silk taffeta Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:36:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oooh, that would be great. Although, a 25 metre minimum order could indeed be painful! Maybe I should shop around for a nice mangle. =} -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 16:04:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DK4TMx021150 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 16:04:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DK3mNX021489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 14:03:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DK3i6M080015; Thu, 13 May 2004 14:03:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DK3f6N079970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 14:03:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4DKFcrp027334 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 16:15:40 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040513125255.0261ad70@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:03:36 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for Welsh costumer In-Reply-To: <026101c4391f$d4e42f30$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <20040513180650.49688.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >YES!!! That's what I was going for: http://www.damehelen.com/cotes/index.html and http://www.damehelen.com/cotes/patterns.html She even uses H38 as an inspiration ... My goal is to work *towards* documentable accuracy. In the meanwhile, I'm very much a beginner in this historical costuming game and am working towards accuracy while creating a garment that is pretty enough that I will enjoy making it and wearing it. At this point, absolute accuracy would just make me freeze with fear of doing it wrong -- If I acknowledge that I'm probably doing some of it wrong but getting bette, that fear of required-perfection evaporates. Katie >This site: >http://www.damehelen.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 16:07:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DK7qMx021183 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 16:07:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DK7FNX021844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 14:07:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DK7E6M082881; Thu, 13 May 2004 14:07:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DK7B6M082840 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 14:07:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-70-32.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.70.32]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4DK6GGs016979 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 15:06:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040513122651.01ee4ed0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:27:49 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting on ebay In-Reply-To: <40A38965.8030603@in-tch.com> References: <002f01c438b4$7f02b890$0200a8c0@MOM> <002f01c438b4$7f02b890$0200a8c0@MOM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Penny, you are completely *evil* (in a very nice way, of course!) I was drooling too, till I realized he was chopping up intact books to get these pages. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 17:59:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DLxSMx022754 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 17:59:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DLwgNX002697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 15:58:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DLwS6M071064; Thu, 13 May 2004 15:58:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m03.lax.untd.com (m03.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4DLwJ6M070881 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 15:58:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa58@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 9q05Lp5l6pU14shT5B1ERqxuaEal3nv79QkMv4zpdpswt0MpqsntvA== Received: (from lisa58@juno.com) by m03.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JVJUY5WF; Thu, 13 May 2004 14:57:40 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:07:02 -0700 Subject: Re: "Sepia Dress" (WAS: RE: [h-cost] photo) Message-ID: <20040513.175007.-407897.7.lisa58@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-4,7-8 From: Lisa A Ashton X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You know, I wondered at first if the trim was some sort of crochet or knit, and I"ll have to try to magnify it more and see what it looks like. I initially wanted to MAKE the trim, but now I"m worried that just designing it correctly will have going for hundreds of hours. On the positive side, my mom has come up with some old audiotapes and transcriptions that give me a bit of insight intot he character of the woman who wore it. Yours in costuming, Lisa A. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 18:02:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DM27Mx022794 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 18:02:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DM05NX002880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 16:00:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DM046M072357; Thu, 13 May 2004 16:00:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m03.lax.untd.com (m03.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4DLwJ6M070883 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 15:58:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa58@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 9q05Lp5l6pU14shT5B1ERqxuaEal3nv7oWDQVPx2+7p9FmzWl8+f4w== Received: (from lisa58@juno.com) by m03.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JVJUY5WL; Thu, 13 May 2004 14:57:40 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:14:28 -0700 Subject: Re: "Sepia Dress" (WAS: RE: [h-cost] photo) Message-ID: <20040513.175007.-407897.9.lisa58@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-6 From: Lisa A Ashton X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Carolyn! Now that I know I don't have to even think about crocheting so much trim. I don't think it was beaded though, because the sparkle from the beads isn't there...I really think it was just braided trim. And I"ll need at least 100 yards of it... Yours in costuming, Lisa A. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 18:02:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DM2hMx022804 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 18:02:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DM0sNX002971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 16:00:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DM0q6M072944; Thu, 13 May 2004 16:00:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m03.lax.untd.com (m03.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4DLwJ6M070880 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 15:58:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa58@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 9q05Lp5l6pU14shT5B1ERqxuaEal3nv7Zz2CG3f8dj4kkAvSG/Qnew== Received: (from lisa58@juno.com) by m03.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JVJUY5WB; Thu, 13 May 2004 14:57:40 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:59:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pre 1800s armpit protection Message-ID: <20040513.175007.-407897.5.lisa58@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6 From: Lisa A Ashton X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Speaking of undergarments, what would those from the 1890's Eastern Europe be made of? I.e., bloomers, shift? Linen or cotton, or some combination? Also, the petticoats, linen or some sort of twill? Yours in costuming, Lisa A. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 13 18:27:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4DMRjMx023107 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 18:27:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DMR5NX005587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 May 2004 16:27:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DMR16M092269; Thu, 13 May 2004 16:27:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4DMQn6M092150 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 16:26:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-70-32.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.70.32]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4DMQEGq017048 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 17:26:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040513151620.0285f100@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:26:45 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: "Sepia Dress" (WAS: RE: [h-cost] photo) In-Reply-To: <20040513.175007.-407897.9.lisa58@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Thanks Carolyn! Now that I know I don't have to even think about >crocheting so much trim. I don't think it was beaded though, because the >sparkle from the beads isn't there...I really think it was just braided >trim. They're made the same way, but one is beaded and the other isn't. E-bay often has the beaded kind, and the best sellers show the backs of the pieces, so you can see how they were made. BTW, the Dover reprint of Weldon's crochet book, called something like Victorian Crochet, does have 1880s crochet dress trim. Crochet can do things that braid can't, and vice versa, so crocheted trim looks different than braid trim does. I can spot crochet, and knitting, because I do both. A friend of mine does tatting, so I can spot that too. And I think I'm getting pretty good at spotting the machine copies of these in the images on e-bay, whether or not the vendors know what they have. >And I"ll need at least 100 yards of it... Soutache comes 280 yards to a roll from CheepTrims, in a single piece instead of three yards to a card from Wright, in a fabric store. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 14 03:24:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4E7OwMx013763 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 03:24:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4E7MLNX012985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 14 May 2004 01:22:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4E7MD6X078486; Fri, 14 May 2004 01:22:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4E7MB6X078415 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 01:22:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0636.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.125]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B08E43199FB for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 09:22:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40A4739C.4080502@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:22:04 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] boned bodice foundation 1766 References: <000d01c438f6$67c831e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I am sorry that it didn't work out the way you want it. I am working on a corset from this pattern http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/leloir/vol10/52_1715stays.jpg It looks like it is going to fit me. Hopefully I wil have pictures by the end of this day or tomorrow. Maby you could use it too. Greetings, Deredere Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hi, >Here i send you a link for one of my works in vain. This hard work i have to discharge. The neckline is two horisontal and should have ben much rounder. I think my dress stand has two broad shoulders, i dont know but several days of work is done in vain. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sophiabodice.htm >Well i think also that the waistline is two low, many things are wrong. I want it to be perfect this time for the museum, so back to work............... > >Bjarne > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 14 09:08:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ED89Mx003938 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 09:08:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ED5MNX001039 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 14 May 2004 07:05:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ED5K6X028559; Fri, 14 May 2004 07:05:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ED4q6X028235 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 07:04:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BOcMt-0005KB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 14 May 2004 06:04:51 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] boned bodice foundation 1766 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 06:04:54 -0700 Message-ID: <001e01c439b4$0cd2bad0$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <40A4739C.4080502@kabelfoon.nl> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i4ED4q6X028235 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, I am curious...will they make a special stand for your gown to display at the museum? If so, would it be better to choose or make a form that doesn't have the broad shoulders you don't care for? Sg > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > >Hi, > >Here i send you a link for one of my works in vain. This hard work i have to > discharge. The neckline is two horisontal and should have ben much rounder. I > think my dress stand has two broad shoulders, i dont know but several days of > work is done in vain. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. > >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sophiabodice.htm > >Well i think also that the waistline is two low, many things are wrong. I want it to > be perfect this time for the museum, so back to work............... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 14 09:08:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ED8AMx003941 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 09:08:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ED3KNX000882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 14 May 2004 07:03:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ED3A6X027237; Fri, 14 May 2004 07:03:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ED386X027224 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 07:03:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BOcLE-0004vz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 14 May 2004 06:03:08 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] boned bodice foundation 1766 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 06:03:10 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01c439b3$cf28e6f0$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <40A4739C.4080502@kabelfoon.nl> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Deredrere and Bjarne...do either of you know what the ''s'y'' conjunction in decription #10 means? So does that mean the boning goes around the neckline and is connected to the top of the busc at B? -----Original Message----- > Behalf Of Deredere Galbraith > Subject: Re: [h-cost] boned bodice foundation 1766 > > http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/leloir/vol10/52_1715stays.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 14 09:24:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4EDOoMx004293 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 09:24:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4EDN2NX002186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 14 May 2004 07:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4EDMu6X038144; Fri, 14 May 2004 07:22:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4EDMr6X038079 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 07:22:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0636.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.125]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B524231949D for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 15:22:47 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40A4C829.1000709@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:22:49 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] boned bodice foundation 1766 References: <001d01c439b3$cf28e6f0$6a01a8c0@SG01> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was wondering about that to. It looks like you can be right. I have a few pictures of 18th century corsets but none of them seems to have a busk. Unfortionally I know very little of this period. Greetings, Deredere Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: >Hi Deredrere and Bjarne...do either of you know what the ''s'y'' conjunction >in decription #10 means? So does that mean the boning goes around the >neckline and is connected to the top of the busc at B? > >-----Original Message----- > > >>Behalf Of Deredere Galbraith >>Subject: Re: [h-cost] boned bodice foundation 1766 >> >>http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/leloir/vol10/52_1715stays.jpg >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 14 15:42:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4EJgCRM025630 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 15:42:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4EJfQNX013621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 14 May 2004 13:41:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4EJfEHi015080; Fri, 14 May 2004 13:41:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4EJfCHi014945 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 13:41:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0636.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.125]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB1B1BF642 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 21:41:00 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40A520CE.9010609@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 21:41:02 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pictures of my 18th century corset X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I still have to finish the bottom of the corset and the straps but I am happy with how it looks. The lining of a robe a la francaise fits over it quite well. I have J. P. Rians pattern, I want the front of the bodice to be sepperate from the skirt. And I like it when the front of the dress almost meet. So, I will have to change the pattern a bit. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Pirates/Elisabeth/Elisabeth.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 14 16:07:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4EK7rRM028137 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 16:07:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4EK7FNX016533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 14 May 2004 14:07:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4EK7BHi035205; Fri, 14 May 2004 14:07:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4EK77Hj035119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 14:07:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4EKJNrp010411 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 16:19:26 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040514130306.025626c8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:07:01 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: [h-cost] Pictures of my 18th century corset In-Reply-To: <40A520CE.9010609@kabelfoon.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hark! Are those bra straps I espy? Theoretically, the corset would be more comfortable without the bra, right? Katie >http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Pirates/Elisabeth/Elisabeth.html > Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 14 17:42:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ELgWRM032488 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 17:42:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ELeSNX025633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 14 May 2004 15:40:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ELeOHi002872; Fri, 14 May 2004 15:40:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ELeKHi002829 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 15:40:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([207.68.62.44]) by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040514214019.DNKE9273.out002.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 16:40:19 -0500 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pictures of my 18th century corset Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:40:16 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040514130306.025626c8@mail.katiesorchids.com> Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [207.68.62.44] at Fri, 14 May 2004 16:40:17 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Looks like a shift to me. Ron Carnegie > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Katie Pleasance > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:07 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] Pictures of my 18th century corset > > > Hark! Are those bra straps I espy? Theoretically, the corset > would be more > comfortable without the bra, right? > > Katie > > > >http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Pirates/Elisabeth/Elisabeth.html > > Deredere > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 14 18:45:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4EMjsRM032752 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 18:45:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4EMjANX002647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 14 May 2004 16:45:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4EMiwHi048736; Fri, 14 May 2004 16:44:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4EMirHi048580 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 16:44:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fb7.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.183]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id EA24826282A for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 00:44:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001201c43a05$0de5ada0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001d01c439b3$cf28e6f0$6a01a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] boned bodice foundation 1766 Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 00:44:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Saragrace, Sorry i have not answered all day but i have ben glaring on my tv for 7 hours looking at the royal danish wedding. Never have i seen more duchesse dresses in my life than today. The nr. 10 is the horisontal bone wich goes round the neckline. nr. 9 shows it as seen from above and nr. 10 shows it in the front. It was funny that you mentioned this corset, as it is this i will use as foundation in my bodice. I have made the pattern ready to be cut tomorrow.Mostly because the skirt is going to be pushed up on the tabs, and lye under the busk point. It is essential that the skirt can be pushed up to almost waistlevel in the front because it would fall down if the curve was two high. Dont know if i explain it right I also would get some problems with the pannier. I dont think the bodice should be on top of the pannier, it would push the pannier down and then the angle of the skirt would not be right. It should go out in the waist in a degree of 90. If the curve in the front busk is two high, the pannier would not be able to push up into waist level. This corset has a very high split from the busk to the tabs, and this split is ideal for my skirt to pass. So i am going to discharge the pattern of the swedish weddingdress. Princess Mary was so beautifull today. Her wedding dress material was a gift from the owners of that fabric store where i got my duchesse satin for the weddingsuit of Gustav III. It was ivory duchesse satin and she wore the old antique Carickmacros Veil that our old queen Ingrid had taken to Denmark from Sweden. Her Tiara wich she wore last night for a ball was a Tiara that had ben worn to the Coronation of Napoleon in 1804. I am sure you have had some glims of it in the news world round. It was a very nice and romantic wedding. Our crownprince Frederik was touched to tears in the church. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:03 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] boned bodice foundation 1766 > Hi Deredrere and Bjarne...do either of you know what the ''s'y'' conjunction > in decription #10 means? So does that mean the boning goes around the > neckline and is connected to the top of the busc at B? > > -----Original Message----- > > Behalf Of Deredere Galbraith > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] boned bodice foundation 1766 > > > > http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/leloir/vol10/52_1715stays.jpg > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 14 19:10:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ENAORM000454 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 19:10:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4EN8ONX004548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 14 May 2004 17:08:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4EN81Hi063053; Fri, 14 May 2004 17:08:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4EN7eHi062862 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 17:07:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fb7.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.183]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 814C55EE001 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 01:07:37 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003901c43a08$452fb3c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40A520CE.9010609@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures of my 18th century corset Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 01:07:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Deredere I hope not that you will think that i stole that idea to make that corset, But actually i desided to try and use this and then alter the shoulderstraps so that they come out longer on the shoulder. It is a fantastic good pattern and i am amazed how well a modern woman will be able to adapt it. Especially i liked that the front busk point is splitted from the waisttabs much higher up than usually stays from this period. My skirt must lie under the buskpoint and go over the tabs, so this is very well. It is the same method they used in the 1660 ies where the skirt does the same thing. I have also noticed on my portrait, that i can se the line of the skirt behind. If the center back long lacing piece also should go outside the skirt, i would have noticed this curve in the behind shadow of the skirtline. But no it is not seen, so i dont think the center back goes outside the courttrain. I have wondering a lot how this courttrain would have ben cut. It is this courtrain i took for a padded roll lying on top of the skirt. There is not a single pleat nor any gathering wrinkles to see in the front of the train. I will have to make a lot of experimentation with this. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 9:41 PM Subject: [h-cost] Pictures of my 18th century corset > Hi, > > I still have to finish the bottom of the corset and the straps but I am > happy with how it looks. > The lining of a robe a la francaise fits over it quite well. > I have J. P. Rians pattern, I want the front of the bodice to be > sepperate from the skirt. > And I like it when the front of the dress almost meet. > So, I will have to change the pattern a bit. > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Pirates/Elisabeth/Elisabeth.html > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 14 20:23:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4F0NHRM000840 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 20:23:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4F0LRNX009996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 14 May 2004 18:21:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4F0LNHi003322; Fri, 14 May 2004 18:21:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4F0LKHi003271 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 18:21:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a255.in-tch.com [66.62.107.55]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4ENvVe01351 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 17:57:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40A5635B.7000907@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 18:24:59 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting on ebay References: <002f01c438b4$7f02b890$0200a8c0@MOM> <002f01c438b4$7f02b890$0200a8c0@MOM> <4.1.20040513122651.01ee4ed0@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.1.20040513122651.01ee4ed0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *That's* despicable! --sue Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >>Penny, you are completely *evil* (in a very nice way, of course!) > > > I was drooling too, till I realized he was chopping up intact books to get > these pages. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 14 20:26:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4F0QhRM000867 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 20:26:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4F0OrNX010202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 14 May 2004 18:24:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4F0OrHi004941; Fri, 14 May 2004 18:24:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4F0OqHi004901 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 18:24:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with ESMTP id <2004051500244701500n5acte>; Sat, 15 May 2004 00:24:47 +0000 Message-ID: <40A56352.5090202@fenris.net> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:24:50 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: OT Re: [h-cost] boned bodice foundation 1766 References: <001d01c439b3$cf28e6f0$6a01a8c0@SG01> <001201c43a05$0de5ada0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001201c43a05$0de5ada0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Dear Saragrace, >Sorry i have not answered all day but i have ben glaring on my tv for 7 >hours looking at the royal danish wedding. > > Bjarne, you have seen this already, right? http://kongehuset.dk/artikel.php?id=61054 liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 14 21:22:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4F1MvRM001170 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 21:22:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4F1L2NX013607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 14 May 2004 19:21:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4F1KxHi033053; Fri, 14 May 2004 19:20:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.triton.net (mail.triton.net [209.172.0.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4F1KuHi032961 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 19:20:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tnt1@triton.net) Message-Id: <200405150120.i4F1KuHi032961@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 32590 invoked from network); 15 May 2004 01:20:49 -0000 Received: from localhost (127.0.0.1) by mail.triton.net with SMTP; 15 May 2004 01:20:49 -0000 Received: from mail.triton.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (VaMailArmor-2.0.1.16) id 32475-5570782A; Fri, 14 May 2004 21:20:49 -0400 Received: (qmail 32226 invoked from network); 15 May 2004 01:20:48 -0000 Received: from ppp-161.122.triton.net (HELO yourfsyly0jtwn) (216.65.161.122) by mail.triton.net with SMTP; 15 May 2004 01:20:48 -0000 From: "timandterese" To: Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 21:20:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcQ6GtePH6iCBeF8R8m68I9mmoTLkQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-AntiVirus: checked by Vexira MailArmor (version: 2.0.1.16; VAE: 6.25.0.3; VDF: 6.25.0.46; host: mail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Boning X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello again. I am learning so much here. I am working on a 1850's dress and underthings. So far I have the dress done. And the chemise. Now I am working on a corset,a nd drawers and hoop skirt. On the corset ( which I should have done first I now know) it calls for boning. I bought what was available to me a nd that was plastic boning encased in material . In the pattern directions, it calls for twill tape to make the casing. Which I purchased bias binding. My question is can I used the encased boning as is and skip the bias tape? I did send away to farthingales for the Busk. Since no one around here had a clue as to what that was. Hehehe. Any help would be appreciated. I have enjoyed working with garment construction again after many years of sewing quilts only. I have even learned some things I had feared to learn like flat felled seams. ( not so hard) and french seams. I have also learned that hand basting is a good thing! I made the dress of linen, and never gave it a thought to pre wash my fabric. I am not a pre washer for quilt fabric unless it is hand dyed. I recently read a tip to was linen at least 2 times. OOOPS. We should all hope that June 12 and 13 are not so hot that I sweat and shrink in dress! Terese _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 14 23:03:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4F33ORM001680 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 23:03:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4F32eNX020143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 14 May 2004 21:02:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4F32WHi080724; Fri, 14 May 2004 21:02:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4F32VHi080664 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 21:02:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.30.56a0ba7d (3948) for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 23:02:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <30.56a0ba7d.2dd6e237@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 23:02:15 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boning To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/14/04 8:22:21 PM Central Daylight Time, tnt1@triton.net writes: On the corset ( which I should have done first I now know) it calls for boning. I bought what was available to me a nd that was plastic boning encased in material . In the pattern directions, it calls for twill tape to make the casing. Which I purchased bias binding. My question is can I used the encased boning as is and skip the bias tape? If the boning came rolled up in a little plastic package from the fabric store, then my personal advice would be to throw it out immediately. It sounds like what you have is the boning that is made for modern formals, and from a historical costuming perspective, it's worthless for anything except for fishing fallen items out from behind your sewing table. it just doesn't provide much support or hold up well in costuming, much less in a corset. There is a polyester boning called "Rigilene" which also isn't ideal, but will work much better than the stuff that comes in the fabric casing. You can purchase that at most fabric stores like JoAnn's and Hancock's, so you should be able to get it quickly and easily (hopefully!). But for a corset to really work as they were intended to, you want to eventually replace that with steel. The good news is that in the 1850's, corsets in general were *slightly* less heavily boned than the previous decade, so if you are not looking for a ton of support or cinching, you can get away with using Rigilene (lots of it) or steel (not too terribly much). A couple of good sources for boning: www.granndgarb.com www.alteryears.com www.milliners.com (Rigilene by the roll, MUCH cheaper than it is in stores) -Tiffany Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 03:09:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4F78xRM007433 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 03:08:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4F76vNX002623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 01:06:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4F76lHi085931; Sat, 15 May 2004 01:06:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4F76iHi085887 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 01:06:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0636.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.125]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB3BDBEA61 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 09:06:38 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40A5C180.2080709@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 09:06:40 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures of my 18th century corset References: <40A520CE.9010609@kabelfoon.nl> <003901c43a08$452fb3c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hi Deredere >I hope not that you will think that i stole that idea to make that corset, > No I don't. It is a very nice pattern and I encurage peolple to use it. I think it works very well. >But actually i desided to try and use this and then alter the shoulderstraps >so that they come out longer on the shoulder. > That is better for later dresse I think. I fhirst made a mistake and pinned the wrong strap to the wrong side. They were to close to my neck, but when I changed them they were more to the end of my schoulders. But If you want a wider neckline the straps are to close to eachother in the back. But they make the neckline nice and round this way. But if you reenforce the top of the corset so it stands round by itself the straps won't have to pul it in right shape. > It is a fantastic good pattern >and i am amazed how well a modern woman will be able to adapt it. > Yep. I was supprised that by only blowing the pattern up it fitted me perfectly. Mostly I just take one mesuerment like how long the corset schould be from my armpit to my waist and enlarge the pattern until it meets that mesurement. And somehow it works... > Especially >i liked that the front busk point is splitted from the waisttabs much higher >up than usually stays from this period. My skirt must lie under the >buskpoint and go over the tabs, so this is very well. It is the same method >they used in the 1660 ies where the skirt does the same thing. >I have also noticed on my portrait, that i can se the line of the skirt >behind. If the center back long lacing piece also should go outside the >skirt, i would have noticed this curve in the behind shadow of the >skirtline. But no it is not seen, so i dont think the center back goes >outside the courttrain. >I have wondering a lot how this courttrain would have ben cut. It is this >courtrain i took for a padded roll lying on top of the skirt. There is not a >single pleat nor any gathering wrinkles to see in the front of the train. I >will have to make a lot of experimentation with this. > This sounds very interesting. Good luck with al your work. Deredere > >Bjarne >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Deredere Galbraith" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 9:41 PM >Subject: [h-cost] Pictures of my 18th century corset > > > > >>Hi, >> >>I still have to finish the bottom of the corset and the straps but I am >>happy with how it looks. >>The lining of a robe a la francaise fits over it quite well. >>I have J. P. Rians pattern, I want the front of the bodice to be >>sepperate from the skirt. >>And I like it when the front of the dress almost meet. >>So, I will have to change the pattern a bit. >>http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Pirates/Elisabeth/Elisabeth.html >> >>Greetings, >> Deredere >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 09:44:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4FDiXRM031405 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 09:44:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FDhgNX022911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 07:43:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FDhSHi039330; Sat, 15 May 2004 07:43:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FDhQHi039315 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 07:43:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BOzRm-0004JG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 15 May 2004 06:43:26 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Boning Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 06:43:31 -0700 Message-ID: <000701c43a82$9c8a3800$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200405150120.i4F1KuHi032961@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i4FDhQHi039315 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > On the corset ( which I should have done first I now know) it calls for > boning. I bought what was available to me a nd that was plastic boning > encased in material . In the pattern directions, it calls for twill tape to > make the casing. Which I purchased bias binding. My question is can I used > the encased boning as is and skip the bias tape? [Sg] Sure can! It may be a little tricky, but you should be able to sew the casings (with the bones in) directly to your fabric with a zig zag stitch or even a zipper foot. Keeping them straight may be a challenge, but you can pin them too. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 09:46:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4FDkmRM031417 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 09:46:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FDj3NX022968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 07:45:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FDj2Hi040009; Sat, 15 May 2004 07:45:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4FDi0Hj039479 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 07:44:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SAVSMTP 3.1.0.29) with SMTP id M2004051509435109271 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 09:43:52 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id i4FDhn8Q024098 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 09:43:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <07e101c43a82$aeac1850$5ba810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: <30.56a0ba7d.2dd6e237@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boning Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 09:44:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My question is can I used > the encased boning as is and skip the bias tape? If you use the tape it came in now, you can replace the plastic with steel or spirals later -- just open the end, slide out the plastic and slide in the steel. > There is a polyester boning called "Rigilene" which also isn't ideal, but > will work much better than the stuff that comes in the fabric casing. You can > purchase that at most fabric stores like JoAnn's and Hancock's, so you should be > able to get it quickly and easily (hopefully!). But for a corset to really > work as they were intended to, you want to eventually replace that with steel. If you use Rigilene, you have to 'candle' the ends (melt them a little) or the individual poly rods will eventually poke thru and poke you. Also -- don't try to pull the corset too tight (as one of my actresses did) - the Rigilene will develope a crimp that is impossible to straighten out. One good thing about Rigilene is that you can just sew it on with no casing and then later (if you've been careful to just catch both edges) use it as the casing for a steel. By the way, steels are thinner than the plastic boning you have. Also try Greenberg & Hammer in NY -- very fast shipping. Kate Pinner ************* > A couple of good sources for boning: > > www.granndgarb.com > www.alteryears.com > www.milliners.com (Rigilene by the roll, MUCH cheaper than it is in stores) > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 09:47:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4FDl1RM031420 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 09:47:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FDkTNX023028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 07:46:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FDkSHi040528; Sat, 15 May 2004 07:46:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4FDkQHj040486 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 07:46:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SAVSMTP 3.1.0.29) with SMTP id M2004051509462009282 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 09:46:20 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id i4FDkI8Q024129 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 09:46:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <07e701c43a83$07806bc0$5ba810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000701c43a82$9c8a3800$6a01a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boning Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 09:46:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also you can gentle iron and steam them to get the curl out (same with Rigilene if you use it) KMP > > > On the corset ( which I should have done first I now know) it calls for > > boning. I bought what was available to me a nd that was plastic boning > > encased in material . In the pattern directions, it calls for twill tape > to > > make the casing. Which I purchased bias binding. My question is can I > used > > the encased boning as is and skip the bias tape? > [Sg] Sure can! It may be a little tricky, but you should be able to sew the > casings (with the bones in) directly to your fabric with a zig zag stitch or > even a zipper foot. Keeping them straight may be a challenge, but you can > pin them too. > > Sg > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 11:53:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4FFr0RM032150 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 11:53:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FFp5NX000184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 09:51:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FFp1Hi094245; Sat, 15 May 2004 09:51:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from myway.com (nn8.excitenetwork.com [207.159.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FFogHi094100 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 09:50:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emmajean@myway.com) Received: by mprdmxin.myway.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 26C16398B; Sat, 15 May 2004 11:50:34 -0400 (EDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Received: from [206.45.178.109] by mprdmailfe2.nwk.myway.com via HTTP; Sat, 15 May 2004 11:50:34 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 289349baa16d029366c42784d58afb66 From: "Wendy" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: emmajean@myway.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20040515155034.26C16398B@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 11:50:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] boning X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Personally, I think rigilene is complete crap. I can't count how many theatrical costumes I've had to tear out the rigilene and replace it. Tearing out meaning having to rip the entire bodice or corset apart because it's sewn right into the foundation. Rigilene warps, buckles and twists 3-dimentionally; it's really quite impressive how badly it can damage an outfit. Farthingales (www.farthingales.on.ca)sells metal boning for both corsets and hoop skirts. They also sell coil boning which won't work for the lacing edges or if you need a really strong bone, but for curves, it's fantastic. They sell busks too. I've dealt with them a few times and I've always been very satisfied. They're based in Stratford, Ont.,home of the Shakespeare festival. I usually use bias tape for bone casing. The width is right and it curves without bulking up. Wendy www.hecate.ca/emma/ _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 12:05:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4FG5wRM032234 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 12:05:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FG5NNX001100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 10:05:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FG5MHi000695; Sat, 15 May 2004 10:05:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from myway.com (nn8.excitenetwork.com [207.159.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FG5KHi000638 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 10:05:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emmajean@myway.com) Received: by mprdmxin.myway.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id B92FF3988; Sat, 15 May 2004 12:05:11 -0400 (EDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Received: from [206.45.178.109] by mprdmailfe2.nwk.myway.com via HTTP; Sat, 15 May 2004 12:05:11 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 289349baa16d029366c42784d58afb66 From: "Wendy" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: emmajean@myway.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20040515160511.B92FF3988@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 12:05:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] nursing garb portrait X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Years ago I came across a couple portaits, Western Europe 15thC-ish, that showed the woman wearing a gown that had laced slits over the breasts to allow for nursing. Now that I'm going to be needing a gown that allows for nursing in the near future, I can't find them. Hope this rings some bells. Any other suggestions would also be welcome. I tend to focus on late 14th-early 15thC French and late 16th-early17thC Dutch, but I'm flexible. Thanks, Wendy Happy Spring (Manitoba just got hit with 40cm of snow, yeah us) _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 12:30:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4FGUPRM032407 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 12:30:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FGSJNX002387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 10:28:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FGSHHi011340; Sat, 15 May 2004 10:28:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FGSFHi011291 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 10:28:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.102] (pm7-102.eos.net [205.133.149.102]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4FGSAC7021720 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 12:28:10 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 12:26:48 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200405151552.i4FFqNHj094839@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: wedding X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne: Is there a web site that shows anything of the wedding? The only thing I saw was a tiny black and white picture in my newspaper, which is a close-up of the prince and his bride. It doesn't even show their waists! I wish I could have seen the wedding. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 12:36:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4FGaFRM032455 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 12:36:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FGZbNX002770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 10:35:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FGZZHi014671; Sat, 15 May 2004 10:35:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FGZXHi014598 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 10:35:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be7e.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.126]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E73C55EE090 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 18:35:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001001c43a9a$a69936d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: wedding Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 18:35:32 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Gail, Here is a link to some photos of the danish wedding: http://www.berlingske.dk/forside/artikel:aid=440754:fid=100100046/ Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 6:26 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: wedding > > Bjarne: > > Is there a web site that shows anything of the wedding? > > The only thing I saw was a tiny black and white picture in my newspaper, > which is a close-up of the prince and his bride. It doesn't even show their > waists! I wish I could have seen the wedding. > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 12:39:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4FGd6RM032477 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 12:39:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FGcUNX002938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 10:38:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FGcTHi015813; Sat, 15 May 2004 10:38:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FGcRHi015791 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 10:38:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be7e.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.126]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9294526282E for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 18:38:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001401c43a9b$131dd2c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: wedding Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 18:38:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here are some more pictures: http://www.berlingske.dk/forside/artikel:aid=438030:fid=100100046/# You can click on some of the pictures, and you have a lot more to choose from Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 6:26 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: wedding > > Bjarne: > > Is there a web site that shows anything of the wedding? > > The only thing I saw was a tiny black and white picture in my newspaper, > which is a close-up of the prince and his bride. It doesn't even show their > waists! I wish I could have seen the wedding. > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 13:37:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4FHbIRM000397 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 13:37:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FHZMNX005904 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 11:35:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FHZBHi041303; Sat, 15 May 2004 11:35:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4FHZ9Hi041267 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 11:35:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: (qmail 22837 invoked from network); 15 May 2004 19:03:36 -0000 Received: from dialup-4.249.66.30.dial1.washington2.level3.net (HELO oldwaylane.net) (4.249.66.30) by shada.com with SMTP; 15 May 2004 19:03:36 -0000 Message-ID: <40A65365.8000900@oldwaylane.net> Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 13:29:09 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] nursing garb portrait References: <20040515160511.B92FF3988@mprdmxin.myway.com> In-Reply-To: <20040515160511.B92FF3988@mprdmxin.myway.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wendy wrote: > Years ago I came across a couple portaits, Western Europe 15thC-ish, that showed the woman wearing a gown that had laced slits over the breasts to allow for nursing. > > Now that I'm going to be needing a gown that allows for nursing in the near future, I can't find them. > > Hope this rings some bells. Any other suggestions would also be welcome. I tend to focus on late 14th-early 15thC French and late 16th-early17thC Dutch, but I'm flexible. the Swedish Historical Museum has this page up for 15th century, click on 'sark' for the shift with nursing slits. Unfortunately they've only translated two of the viking pages into English, so this is only available in Swedish. They doc the breast slits to a painting of Mary nursing Jesus which is shown at the bottom of the right frame. I tried to write the woman who made the outfit and did the research to see if she had other doc, but I never heard back from her. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 14:23:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4FINARM000675 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 14:23:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FIMVNX008896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 12:22:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FIMTHi062881; Sat, 15 May 2004 12:22:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.dandy.net (smtp.dandy.net [66.159.110.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FIMQHj062858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 12:22:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net ([209.128.249.145]) by smtp.dandy.net for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 15 May 2004 14:25:04 -0400 Message-ID: <40A65FDB.3050403@dandy.net> Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 14:22:19 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <000901c3a14e$d2a67070$316453d8@Kass> In-Reply-To: <000901c3a14e$d2a67070$316453d8@Kass> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] June 6 event in Pennsville, NJ X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Guys. I had heard that you were hard to reach online, and since I don't have your phone #, I'm trying to reach you this way anyway. I have included you on the list of folks to attend the June 6 dedication of the Church Boat Monument in Pennsville. We are having a 17th cent. camp there. The reenactors will be getting a $25 honorarium and lunch (we may be cooking in the field) I have tried to leave a slot open for Dave Rose if he is interested, but there is someone else that is interested in the slot also. Dave was involved in a whole big fiasco about whether or not he was going to portray John Fenwick, but hopefully that has been resolved. There was a major lack of communication, especially between Janet, Dave, Aleasa and me. Dave sent a note to me after the fact, saying that he was a "stealth" reenactor or some such... I didn't quite get it, but I took it in stride. I would hope that in the future, we all can sort out who is going to be where without any subterfuge of this kind. Regardless of all this, I assume that Dave has the proper kit (1640s), but he says he needs a musket, etc. Has he been trained in the drill? If he is not comfortable, we can do two things... We can use his inexperience in a program bit, or he can work in the camp and not worry about trailing a piece in the Queen's service. Let me know soonest about your status. If I do not hear from you by Monday, I will need to resort to other measures to contact you. Thanks, Mike T. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 18:48:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4FMmjRM009341 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 18:48:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FMlpNX025573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 16:47:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FMleHi086842; Sat, 15 May 2004 16:47:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out004.verizon.net (out004pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.142]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FMlcHi086820 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 16:47:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebarefoot.contessa@verizon.net) Received: from elizabew ([68.239.140.157]) by out004.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040515224737.VMPR1551.out004.verizon.net@elizabew> for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 17:47:37 -0500 From: "Elizabeth" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: wedding Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 18:51:47 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001001c43a9a$a69936d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [68.239.140.157] at Sat, 15 May 2004 17:47:31 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh very lovely...I saw some of it on 20/20 an American television magazine. Next week is the wedding in Spain. 20/20 did a whole Royal special and interviewed the Prince of Italy and the Prince of Greece. Very ineresting but male/Prince and very Young Royal focused. Elizabeth -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:36 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: wedding Hi Gail, Here is a link to some photos of the danish wedding: http://www.berlingske.dk/forside/artikel:aid=440754:fid=100100046/ Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 6:26 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: wedding > > Bjarne: > > Is there a web site that shows anything of the wedding? > > The only thing I saw was a tiny black and white picture in my newspaper, > which is a close-up of the prince and his bride. It doesn't even show their > waists! I wish I could have seen the wedding. > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 18:50:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4FMofRM009428 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 18:50:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FMo7NX025680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 16:50:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FMo7Hi087815; Sat, 15 May 2004 16:50:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FMmuHi087362 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 16:48:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebarefoot.contessa@verizon.net) Received: from elizabew ([68.239.140.157]) by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040515224855.LKWR9273.out002.verizon.net@elizabew> for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 17:48:55 -0500 From: "Elizabeth" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: wedding-Hello Mag. Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 18:53:09 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [68.239.140.157] at Sat, 15 May 2004 17:48:54 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try Hello Magazine http://www.hellomagazine.com/ Elizabeth -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Gail & Scott Finke Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:27 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: wedding Bjarne: Is there a web site that shows anything of the wedding? The only thing I saw was a tiny black and white picture in my newspaper, which is a close-up of the prince and his bride. It doesn't even show their waists! I wish I could have seen the wedding. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 19:59:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4FNxdRM011470 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 19:59:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FNx3NX029830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 17:59:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FNx0Hi018301; Sat, 15 May 2004 17:59:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4FNwvHi018280 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 17:58:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 16359 invoked from network); 15 May 2004 23:59:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 15 May 2004 23:59:03 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Sat, 15 May 2004 16:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1278.24.4.69.40.1084665537.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <40A4C829.1000709@kabelfoon.nl> References: <001d01c439b3$cf28e6f0$6a01a8c0@SG01> <40A4C829.1000709@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 16:58:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New question on corsets... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello list! (Deredere, this is a good question for you) I have wondered this for a long time and I am finally trying to find the answer by asking you all. So here it is... When you make the kind of corset where you sew channels and stuff them with cording or simulated "whale bone", do you need to cut the material pieces bigger? My thought is this--if you take two pieces of material and sew channels in them and then stuff them with something, the pattern piece will effectively "shrink up". So wouldn't you need to cut the pieces bigger to compensate for this? Or do you just sew channels into fabric and stuff it before you cut it? And if you do cut before you sew the channels, how do you know how much bigger to make the pieces? Thanks for helping me resolve this question! -- Diana Habra www.renaissancefabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 20:09:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4G09mRM011786 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 20:09:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G09BNX000648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 18:09:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G09BHi023070; Sat, 15 May 2004 18:09:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G098Hj023054 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 18:09:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4G0942x001692 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 20:09:04 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 15 May 2004 20:09:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40A6B121.50805@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 20:09:05 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: wedding-Hello Mag. References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Elizabeth wrote: > http://www.hellomagazine.com/ Great site, thanks! Maybe those of you who are more familiar with modern day fashions can tell me this: what is "medieval" about the Princess's dress? The magazine caption says: "The bride opted for an elegant medieval look with a gown featuring lily-shaped sleeves, a dramatic almost off-the-shoulder neckline and panels opening out from the waist to reveal 100-year-old lace" I know a fair amount about medieval, and although this is lovely and chic and all those things, it sure doesn't look medieval to me! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Losing weight is like chipping away at boulder with a toothpick. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 21:34:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4G1Y4RM013896 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 21:34:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G1WGNX006072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 19:32:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G1WAHi061012; Sat, 15 May 2004 19:32:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.snvacaid.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G1W5Hi060957 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 19:32:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from theresa@misc.com) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4G1f1wH011743 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 18:41:01 -0700 Message-ID: <40A6C45B.5040704@misc.com> Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 18:31:07 -0700 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: wedding-Hello Mag. References: <40A6B121.50805@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Or, what the heck is "medieval-style" about earrings with platinum settings and FACETED diamonds??? WHERE do they get these fantasies??? Very nice set of pictures though. Theresa Eacker Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Elizabeth wrote: > >> http://www.hellomagazine.com/ > > > Great site, thanks! > > Maybe those of you who are more familiar with modern day fashions can > tell me this: what is "medieval" about the Princess's dress? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 22:42:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4G2gKRM014658 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 22:42:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G2blNX009825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 20:37:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G2bZHi089593; Sat, 15 May 2004 20:37:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.dandy.net (smtp.dandy.net [66.159.110.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G2bXHj089533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 20:37:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net ([209.128.250.74]) by smtp.dandy.net for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 15 May 2004 22:40:08 -0400 Message-ID: <40A6D3E1.7090303@dandy.net> Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 22:37:21 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] June 6 event in Pennsville, NJ References: <000901c3a14e$d2a67070$316453d8@Kass> <40A65FDB.3050403@dandy.net> In-Reply-To: <40A65FDB.3050403@dandy.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. Big Oops on my part, this was supposed to go to someone else. My apologies for the mistake and use of bandwidth. Mike T. (quite embarrassed) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 23:17:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4G3HmRM015403 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 23:17:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G3FtNX011969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 21:15:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G3FqHi006707; Sat, 15 May 2004 21:15:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G3FlHi006594 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 21:15:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (dialup-196.41.220.203.acc05-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au [203.220.41.196]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4G3FXgq018887 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 13:15:34 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c43af3$ab3d4600$c429dccb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001d01c439b3$cf28e6f0$6a01a8c0@SG01> <40A4C829.1000709@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] boned bodice foundation 1766 Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 14:29:12 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:22 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] boned bodice foundation 1766 > I was wondering about that to. > It looks like you can be right. > I have a few pictures of 18th century corsets but none of them seems to > have a busk. > Unfortionally I know very little of this period. > > Greetings, > Deredere You do 19th century, right? If you do then you probably have a different concept of what a busk is to earlier corset makers. In the 19th century (1840s-50s I think) they invented stud and loop closures mounted on a piece of steel as a method of getting in and out of your corset without having to loosen the laces enough to take it off over your head. however before they were invented a busk/busc was a flat piece of wood or whalebone (or I've heard of horn being used occasionally) about 1-2 inches wide inserted into a pocket in the front of the corset, it essentially works like an extra strong piece of boning that wouldn't flex to keep the centre front point from flipping up and to help give you a really flat front. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 15 23:27:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4G3RYRM015594 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 23:27:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G3R0NX012582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 21:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G3QxHi011323; Sat, 15 May 2004 21:26:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G3QvHi011303 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 21:26:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BPCIi-0007RY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 15 May 2004 20:26:56 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New question on corsets... Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 20:27:03 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c43af5$a8527030$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <1278.24.4.69.40.1084665537.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i4G3QvHi011303 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So wouldn't you need to cut the pieces bigger to > compensate for this? Or do you just sew channels into fabric and stuff it > before you cut it? And if you do cut before you sew the channels, how do > you know how much bigger to make the pieces? [Sg] No, you don't need to do that. It doesn't take up that much room. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 16 00:33:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4G4XwRM016269 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 00:33:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G4W5NX015992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 22:32:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G4W2Hi039856; Sat, 15 May 2004 22:32:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G4VrHi039673 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 22:31:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (dialup-196.41.220.203.acc05-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au [203.220.41.196]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4G4VZHJ023377 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 14:31:36 +1000 Message-ID: <004401c43afe$4994a8c0$c429dccb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c43af5$a8527030$6a01a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New question on corsets... Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 14:28:49 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 1:27 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] New question on corsets... > > So wouldn't you need to cut the pieces bigger to > > compensate for this? Or do you just sew channels into fabric and stuff it > > before you cut it? And if you do cut before you sew the channels, how do > > you know how much bigger to make the pieces? > > [Sg] No, you don't need to do that. It doesn't take up that much room. Unless you're using a lot of 3D boning like reeds. e.g. a fully boned (i.e. every inch covered with bones) 18th century corset stuffed with cable ties or reeds will need a bit extra on width (a friend claims twice the normal seam allowance works well) or leave a larger gap at the back. If you're using something flat like steel they take up so little room it doesn't make much of a difference. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 16 00:50:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4G4odRM016599 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 00:50:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G4o4NX016837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 May 2004 22:50:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G4o3Hi047595; Sat, 15 May 2004 22:50:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G4nwHi047542 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 22:49:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (dialup-196.41.220.203.acc05-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au [203.220.41.196]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4G4ncau024372 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 14:49:46 +1000 Message-ID: <006501c43b00$d672c0e0$c429dccb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40A6B121.50805@thibault.org> <40A6C45B.5040704@misc.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: wedding-Hello Mag. Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 14:46:46 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Theresa Eacker" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: wedding-Hello Mag. > Or, what the heck is "medieval-style" about earrings with platinum > settings and FACETED diamonds??? > > WHERE do they get these fantasies??? > > Very nice set of pictures though. > > Theresa Eacker Well it's a long dress, it's got to be medieval *g* I suppose it's vaguely cotehardie like, fitted through the body, flaring from the hips and IIRC (we got it televised over here too coz Princess Mary was an Australian citizen until a couple of months ago) it didn't have a waist seam. In reality it's even less medieval than LOTR. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 16 02:22:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4G6MgRM017883 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 02:22:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G6M5NX021791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 16 May 2004 00:22:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G6LtHi086356; Sun, 16 May 2004 00:21:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4G6LqHi086294 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 00:21:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0636.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.125]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA361319192 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 08:21:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40A7087B.1080709@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 08:21:47 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New question on corsets... References: <001d01c439b3$cf28e6f0$6a01a8c0@SG01> <40A4C829.1000709@kabelfoon.nl> <1278.24.4.69.40.1084665537.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I use linnen as fabrick to sew the chanels in. It streches a little. After puting reeds in the corset pieces were just a few mm smaller but under stress I don't think there was a difference. But I read on the internet that people had problems with the corset being smaller after they put the boning in. I think it depends on the fabric you use. You could always make a smal piece en mesure it with and without boning. But put the fabrick under stress wile mesuring it with the boning! Greetings, Deredere Diana Habra wrote: >Hello list! > >(Deredere, this is a good question for you) > >I have wondered this for a long time and I am finally trying to find the >answer by asking you all. So here it is... > >When you make the kind of corset where you sew channels and stuff them >with cording or simulated "whale bone", do you need to cut the material >pieces bigger? > >My thought is this--if you take two pieces of material and sew channels in >them and then stuff them with something, the pattern piece will >effectively "shrink up". So wouldn't you need to cut the pieces bigger to >compensate for this? Or do you just sew channels into fabric and stuff it >before you cut it? And if you do cut before you sew the channels, how do >you know how much bigger to make the pieces? > >Thanks for helping me resolve this question! > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 16 10:48:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4GEm7RM007078 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 10:48:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GElLNX015578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 16 May 2004 08:47:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GElBHi097704; Sun, 16 May 2004 08:47:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav19.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GEl9Hi097635 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 08:47:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 16 May 2004 07:47:01 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav19.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 16 May 2004 14:47:01 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001d01c439b3$cf28e6f0$6a01a8c0@SG01><40A4C829.1000709@kabelfoon.nl> <1278.24.4.69.40.1084665537.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New question on corsets... Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:47:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 May 2004 14:47:01.0991 (UTC) FILETIME=[A5E75770:01C43B54] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > When you make the kind of corset where you sew channels and stuff them > with cording or simulated "whale bone", do you need to cut the material > pieces bigger? Yes, but it also depends on the fabric you use. I used linen for my corset, and it's a bit stretchy, so it compensates for the shrinkage. Of course, I was using plastic boning evenly spaced out. Usually, corded corsets are thickly packed, and the stretch of the linen couldn't compensate for it. > So wouldn't you need to cut the pieces bigger to > compensate for this? Yes. > Or do you just sew channels into fabric and stuff it > before you cut it? I guess you could, but then you'd have trouble controlling exactly where you want your channels to end up and at which angle. > And if you do cut before you sew the channels, how do > you know how much bigger to make the pieces? You don't, really. There's a bit of instinct and a bit of thinking and a lot of luck involved. Trial, error and fiddling are still the best way I've found of properly fitting a corset. But this is all based on things I've read, experiences of other ppl who've built corsets. I built only one so far, and I think I was very lucky, because it fit perfectly almost right away :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 16 11:24:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4GFOWRM007709 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 11:24:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GFMeNX017242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 16 May 2004 09:22:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GFMcHi013262; Sun, 16 May 2004 09:22:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GFMZHi013236 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 09:22:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be84.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.132]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E8F792628E9 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 17:22:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003b01c43b59$a3249bb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001d01c439b3$cf28e6f0$6a01a8c0@SG01> <40A4C829.1000709@kabelfoon.nl><1278.24.4.69.40.1084665537.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <40A7087B.1080709@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New question on corsets... Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:22:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Deredere, I just finished boning half the corset and i have almost used 32 meter of boning. I make it fully boned! I think the reason this corset is schrinking is because there are so many different boning directions. It shapes rather much with the boning. Did you notice that it is "crying" for a shaped busk in the front? The busked point wants to have something lying under it to curve it outwards. I think i will make the pointed busk with a narrower linning so that it curves out, it will be nice i think. I must confess that i use ordinary drilling cotton for my corset. It is only going to be a linning for the bodice, and i cant get used to the strechiness of the linnen fabrics. Ever since i tryed to make Nicoles bodice linning in linnen, i promised myself never to do that again. I think for handstitching it is ideal, but when you use your sewingmachine to make all those bone channels, it is very difficult to make it fit all the edges. Anyway i just recomend everybody to use this pattern, it is very good! Glad that this the most hard work is soon over, so that i can go on to the pannier and the making of the dress :-) Salut Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 8:21 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New question on corsets... > Hi, > > I use linnen as fabrick to sew the chanels in. It streches a little. > After puting reeds in the corset pieces were just a few mm smaller but > under stress I don't think there was a difference. > But I read on the internet that people had problems with the corset > being smaller after they put the boning in. > I think it depends on the fabric you use. You could always make a smal > piece en mesure it with and without boning. > But put the fabrick under stress wile mesuring it with the boning! > > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > Diana Habra wrote: > > >Hello list! > > > >(Deredere, this is a good question for you) > > > >I have wondered this for a long time and I am finally trying to find the > >answer by asking you all. So here it is... > > > >When you make the kind of corset where you sew channels and stuff them > >with cording or simulated "whale bone", do you need to cut the material > >pieces bigger? > > > >My thought is this--if you take two pieces of material and sew channels in > >them and then stuff them with something, the pattern piece will > >effectively "shrink up". So wouldn't you need to cut the pieces bigger to > >compensate for this? Or do you just sew channels into fabric and stuff it > >before you cut it? And if you do cut before you sew the channels, how do > >you know how much bigger to make the pieces? > > > >Thanks for helping me resolve this question! > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 16 11:36:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4GFaORM007966 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 11:36:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GFYaNX018102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 16 May 2004 09:34:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GFYZHi018679; Sun, 16 May 2004 09:34:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GFYXHi018648 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 09:34:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be84.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.132]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 22828262869 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 17:34:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <008201c43b5b$506d4e60$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:34:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] ot wedding X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4GFaORM007966 Status: RO Hi, you are quite right, but i think the whole idea was to have it look like,,,,,,,,, using the same shape or something. Isnt this the way things are in this world, only us costume freaks knows how it was supposed to be. Anyway Marys father came up with a lovely speach, mentioning his scottish anscestors was doing a job in wain fighting with all the danish wikings. Yes never before have there ben so many kilts in the castle. It was lovely and Mary is such a lovely girl. She has taken us with storm..... Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 16 12:12:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4GGC9RM008367 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 12:12:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GGAFNX019714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 16 May 2004 10:10:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GGABHi036458; Sun, 16 May 2004 10:10:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail4.mdx.safepages.com (mail4.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GGAAHi036411 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 10:10:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA5B62680B for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 16:10:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail4.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail4.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 79139-10 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 16:10:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 90E7E26917; Sun, 16 May 2004 16:10:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust82.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.82]) by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BC62027900 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 16:10:01 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <021901c43b60$7456c7c0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c43af5$a8527030$6a01a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New question on corsets... Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 11:11:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For a fully boned set of stays, measure a sample cut of your stays fabric wide enough for 10 bone channels, plus an inch or so seam allowance. (If you're making 3/8" channels, you'll need a width of 3 3/4", plus your seam allowance on either side. The length doesn't really matter that much, as long as it's long enough to hold the stitches; I generally go with ~3". That's a small enough sample that you should still have plenty of fabric to cut out your stays.) Then sew 10 channels, using your pre-determined width and beng sure to leave your pre-determined seam allowance. Bone them with the same material you'll be using. Then pull on each end of the sample, to simulate the stress the fabric will be under when worn, and measure it while keeping that pull on it--put a ruler down somewhere, so you can just hold the test swatch on top of it. Using the 3/8" example, the test swatch should be 3 3/4" or less in width. Like Saragrace said, there's rarely enough difference to matter, and since your fabric will stretch when you put the corset on, you'll probably more than make up for the difference. If you're using really thick boning material like reeds, it might be a concern, but still, expect the corset to expand a couple of inches or more after having been worn for a few hours. To be accurate, you should make the boning channels as tight as you possibly can--there was a reason that historically, women weren't considered strong enough to be staymakers! By doing this, you'll be pre-stretching the channels to nearly the limit of the cloth's stretch, which means that when worn, the stays will NOT expand after wear. I use 5mm boning that's about 1.5mm thick, in 5mm boning channels, and while it is a workout to get them in, the end result works great, doesn't get stretched out more than ~1/2" no matter how long I wear it, and looks a lot tidier than stays with looser boning channels. For a fully boned corset, you probably will need to trim each panel slightly after you've sewn in the channels; it's easy for things to skew around a bit while you're doing all that sewing. You might want to add a little bit around each pattern piece (I generally add 1/4") when you're cutting them out to allow for this; just be sure to trim each panel back to the exact pattern when you're done sewing the channels! You'll also need to be sure to match the boning lines back up with the ones on the pattern, or with whichever straight line they should match. For a partially boned corset or a 19thC or early 20thC, you definitely don't need to add any fabric, and you should never bone before cutting out the corset, period. -E (Who needs arms like a blacksmith? I have arms like a staymaker!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 16 15:37:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4GJbfRM011090 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 15:37:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GJZSNX001517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 16 May 2004 13:35:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GJZEHi035920; Sun, 16 May 2004 13:35:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GJZ9Hi035871 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 13:35:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be84.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.132]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A78245EE0A0 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 21:35:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002401c43b7c$eca31230$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 21:35:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] my Garsault stays X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4GJbfRM011090 Status: RO Hi, Just uploaded pictures of the foundation i am going to use for the court dress. Its the same kind as Deredere made. My foundation is fully boned. Bjarne http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/estrup2.htm Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 16 15:51:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4GJpURM011480 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 15:51:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GJotNX002375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 16 May 2004 13:50:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GJorHi043121; Sun, 16 May 2004 13:50:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4GJopHi043098 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 13:50:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-28568); Sun, 16 May 2004 12:50:49 -0700 Received: from unknown (66.205.128.60) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Sun, 16 May 2004 12:50:48 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040516124736.0117fdd0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 12:50:43 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] my Garsault stays In-Reply-To: <002401c43b7c$eca31230$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-68 ip=66.205.128.60 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:35 PM 5/16/2004 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, >Just uploaded pictures of the foundation i am going to use for the court >dress. Its the same kind as Deredere made. >My foundation is fully boned. > >Bjarne >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/estrup2.htm As always, your work is very good, Bjarne, both in design and execution. It makes me wish that there were a reason to make some 18th century European clothing for me. But there's not much going on in reenactment for that time period out here in California. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 16 19:02:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4GN2pRM013724 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 19:02:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GN1qNX013154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 16 May 2004 17:01:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GN1cHi030926; Sun, 16 May 2004 17:01:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.donet.com (mail.donet.com [64.56.96.53]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4GN1YHj030900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 17:01:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mjh@pearlandplume.com) Received: (qmail 21355 invoked by alias); 16 May 2004 23:01:31 -0000 X-Sender: mjh@pearlandplume.com X-Recipient: h-costume@indra.com Received: from dhcp245137.columbus.rr.com (HELO ?204.210.245.137?) (204.210.245.137) by mail.donet.com for h-costume@indra.com with SMTP; 16 May 2004 23:01:31 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:57:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] colleges for history and construction - thank you From: Marsha J Hamilton To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I want to thank everyone on the list for the great suggestions for colleges. I've passed them on to my friend who was delighted to get them. You are a great resource! Marsha ------ on 5/4/04 12:06 AM, Marsha J Hamilton at mjh@pearlandplume.com wrote: > A question for people in the U.S.-- > > A friend's daughter is in college and wants to transfer to a school where > she can get into a B.A. program that offers costume and clothing history > courses but also courses on construction and sewing/tailoring techniques... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 16 20:11:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4H0BCRM014520 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 20:11:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4H0ARNX017139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 16 May 2004 18:10:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4H0ANHi062984; Sun, 16 May 2004 18:10:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4H0AMHi062969 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 18:10:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 9183 invoked from network); 17 May 2004 00:10:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 17 May 2004 00:10:28 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Sun, 16 May 2004 17:10:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1054.24.4.69.40.1084752621.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <1278.24.4.69.40.1084665537.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> References: <001d01c439b3$cf28e6f0$6a01a8c0@SG01><40A4C829.1000709@kabelfoon.nl> <1278.24.4.69.40.1084665537.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:10:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] New question on corsets... From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks to everyone who helped clear up my question. I haven't had a chance to make one, although I did start a pattern at one time. But now I am armed with the knowledge I need. Hmmm, where DID I put that pattern....? Diana -- Diana Habra www.renaissancefabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 16 23:09:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4H39WRM016716 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 23:09:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4H38pNX026518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 16 May 2004 21:08:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4H38eHi045954; Sun, 16 May 2004 21:08:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.triton.net (mail.triton.net [209.172.0.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4H38dHi045877 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 21:08:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tnt1@triton.net) Message-Id: <200405170308.i4H38dHi045877@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 18194 invoked from network); 17 May 2004 03:08:32 -0000 Received: from localhost (127.0.0.1) by mail.triton.net with SMTP; 17 May 2004 03:08:32 -0000 Received: from mail.triton.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (VaMailArmor-2.0.1.16) id 18069-0F351C0C; Sun, 16 May 2004 23:08:32 -0400 Received: (qmail 17917 invoked from network); 17 May 2004 03:08:30 -0000 Received: from ppp-170.180.triton.net (HELO yourfsyly0jtwn) (216.65.170.180) by mail.triton.net with SMTP; 17 May 2004 03:08:30 -0000 From: "timandterese" To: Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 23:08:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Thread-Index: AcQ7vDeBeB+qowSMRauOAEMrX/z06Q== X-AntiVirus: checked by Vexira MailArmor (version: 2.0.1.16; VAE: 6.25.0.3; VDF: 6.25.0.46; host: mail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] First Corset X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well an update on my very first corset. It is done! It turned out very nice. I used a simplicity pattern. It is very basic and probably not real "true", but easy to construct. I have some notes in the margin of the instructions for further reference. Like use something to interface the back eyelet area where it is laced. Now for my mistakes. Fearing that the pattern would be too small for my odd shaped body, I purchased a fabric twill in look, but with a bit of stretch to it. It sewed fine. Looks nice. But the corset is too big! Imagine that! Even with the lacing as tight as it can go it is roomy. I used the plastic boning avalible at JoAnn fabrics. Not the best choice. I could even sew through it and not break a needle. But it will be ok for the one or 2 days I plan on wearing it. It may be a better fit over my chemise. I tried it on over a t shirt. I have learned so much from all of you. I thank you very much! My drawers are finished as well. Much to my hubby's raised eye brows hehehe. They are more period correct ( 1850's) Just a hoop shirt to go and perhaps a petticoat. Terese _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 16 23:54:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4H3spRM017265 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 23:54:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4H3qsNX029127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 16 May 2004 21:52:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4H3qqHi066053; Sun, 16 May 2004 21:52:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4H3qpHi066043 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 21:52:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BPZBK-0002Dq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 16 May 2004 20:52:50 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] my Garsault stays Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:53:00 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c43bc2$729ca820$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <002401c43b7c$eca31230$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What have you been doing Bjarne? Working 24-7??? Do you sleep? Very nice, as usual! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 02:19:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4H6JARM025023 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 02:19:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4H6IhNX007882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 00:18:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4H6IYHi029875; Mon, 17 May 2004 00:18:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4H6IUHi029821 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 00:18:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23914 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 01:19:42 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 01:19:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Amusement for Elizabethan aficionados In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A couple of weeks ago I sent a link for an amusing comic, which was available only on that day. On Mon, 3 May 2004, Lynn Downward wrote: > Gotta get my email at home fixed. I hate only having access on weekdays! For Lynn and anyone else who missed it, it's now on the King features site (which has a two-week delay on its comics archive). Go here: http://www.kingfeatures.com/features/comics/sixchix/about.htm and select Sunday, May 2. Interesting idea for ruff construction. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 03:12:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4H7CRRM012309 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 03:12:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4H79gNX010458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 01:09:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4H79cHi053015; Mon, 17 May 2004 01:09:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4H79ZHi052994 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 01:09:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-206-244.cvip.net [129.8.206.244]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5122B1F19 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 00:09:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040517000853.00b0cec8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 00:09:21 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Amusement for Elizabethan aficionados In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Robin for sharing this. I gotta pass it on to friends. Kimiko At 01:19 AM 5/17/2004 -0500, you wrote: >A couple of weeks ago I sent a link for an amusing comic, which was >available only on that day. > >On Mon, 3 May 2004, Lynn Downward wrote: > > > Gotta get my email at home fixed. I hate only having access on weekdays! > >For Lynn and anyone else who missed it, it's now on the King features site >(which has a two-week delay on its comics archive). Go here: > >http://www.kingfeatures.com/features/comics/sixchix/about.htm > >and select Sunday, May 2. > >Interesting idea for ruff construction. > >--Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 03:45:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4H7jiRM012824 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 03:45:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4H7htNX012233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 01:43:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4H7hrHi065854; Mon, 17 May 2004 01:43:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com ([212.17.54.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4H7hoHi065795 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 01:43:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lstrid@mglarc.com) Received: by oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Mon, 17 May 2004 08:42:20 +0100 Message-ID: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E75A6316@oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com> From: Lena Strid To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] nursing garb portrait Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 08:42:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The breast feeding topic came up a few months ago on the Swedish Medieval re-enactment/living history forum (http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/forum/) and a few pictures were linked to. As I don't have internet access right now, I cannot unfortunately check it for you. But they have an English forum part as well, further down on the page. Ask there, and I'm sure someone will give you the links. Best of luck, Lena (goes back to lurking) -----Original Message----- From: Judy Mitchell [mailto:judymitch@oldwaylane.net] Sent: 15 May 2004 18:29 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] nursing garb portrait Wendy wrote: > Years ago I came across a couple portaits, Western Europe 15thC-ish, that showed the woman wearing a gown that had laced slits over the breasts to allow for nursing. > > Now that I'm going to be needing a gown that allows for nursing in the near future, I can't find them. > > Hope this rings some bells. Any other suggestions would also be welcome. I tend to focus on late 14th-early 15thC French and late 16th-early17thC Dutch, but I'm flexible. the Swedish Historical Museum has this page up for 15th century, click on 'sark' for the shift with nursing slits. Unfortunately they've only translated two of the viking pages into English, so this is only available in Swedish. They doc the breast slits to a painting of Mary nursing Jesus which is shown at the bottom of the right frame. I tried to write the woman who made the outfit and did the research to see if she had other doc, but I never heard back from her. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ================================================= Margaret Gowen & Co. Ltd. Archaeological Consultants & Project Managers 2 Killiney View Tel: 01-2300433 Albert Road Lower Fax: 01-2300865 Glenageary e-mail: archaeology@mglarc.com Co. Dublin website: http://www.mglarc.com ================================================= CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is private and confidential and may contain legally privileged information. If you are not named above as an addressee it may be unlawful for you to read, copy, distribute, disclose or otherwise use the information in this email. If you are not the intended recipient of this email please contact our systems administrator. Thank you. NOTE Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its associated companies unless otherwise specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 10:43:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HEh8RM018640 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 10:43:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HEetNX002624 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 08:40:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HEeeHi032183; Mon, 17 May 2004 08:40:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20204.mail.yahoo.com (web20204.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4HEebHi032154 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 08:40:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040517144036.81903.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 17 May 2004 07:40:36 PDT Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:40:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Kessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: wedding-Hello Mag. To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <40A6B121.50805@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also, no sequins or other applied decoration on the bodice. That's an unusual look by today's fashions. -Angela --- Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Elizabeth wrote: > > http://www.hellomagazine.com/ > > Great site, thanks! > > Maybe those of you who are more familiar with modern > day fashions can > tell me this: what is "medieval" about the > Princess's dress? The > magazine caption says: > > "The bride opted for an elegant medieval look with a > gown featuring > lily-shaped sleeves, a dramatic almost > off-the-shoulder neckline and > panels opening out from the waist to reveal > 100-year-old lace" > > I know a fair amount about medieval, and although > this is lovely and > chic and all those things, it sure doesn't look > medieval to me! > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > Losing weight is like chipping away at boulder with > a toothpick. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 10:56:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HEuRRM018679 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 10:56:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HEtTNX004078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 08:55:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HEtQHi042126; Mon, 17 May 2004 08:55:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rly-ip03.mx.aol.com (rly-ip03.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HEtPHi042060 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 08:55:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Info@roguestailor.com) Received: from smtp-mtc05.proxy.aol.com (smtp-mtc05.proxy.aol.com [64.12.118.19]) by rly-ip03.mx.aol.com (v98.19) with ESMTP id RELAYIN2-340a8d23f19f; Mon, 17 May 2004 10:54:55 -0400 Received: from preferre406gqb (ACAEA5B7.ipt.aol.com [172.174.165.183]) by smtp-mtc05.proxy.aol.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4HEt1K2029876 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:55:10 GMT Message-ID: <002601c43c1e$bd960ef0$b7a5aeac@preferre406gqb> From: "Marian Brock-Andersen" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003601c43895$478493d0$6a01a8c0@SG01> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:53:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.40 X-Apparently-From: NightsScarling@aol.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.118.19 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Chemise construction X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have always thought of chemise's as being simple peasent blouses that were simply of difrent lengths. Is this corect? For that mater is there any historical basis for the drawstring peasent blouse at all? Does anyone know where I can get some good tips for makeing more corect chemise's, I have specific intrest in a particular period. Thanks Kit. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 11:18:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HFIiRM018985 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 11:18:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HFHLNX006132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 09:17:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HFGixS056643; Mon, 17 May 2004 09:16:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HFGexS056587 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 09:16:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i4HFGcL5008324 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 11:16:38 -0400 Received: from 64.156.242.54 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Mon, 17 May 2004 11:16:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1550.64.156.242.54.1084806998.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <002601c43c1e$bd960ef0$b7a5aeac@preferre406gqb> References: <003601c43895$478493d0$6a01a8c0@SG01> <002601c43c1e$bd960ef0$b7a5aeac@preferre406gqb> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:16:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chemise construction From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They did change through history as the shapes of the outer garments changed. A few extant 18th & early 19thC shifts have drawstrings, but they seem more to control the neckline shape a bit, not to draw up large amounts of fabric. But by then the shift does not have a peasant blouse look. What is your period of interest? That would help to track down sources. _Cut My Cote_ is a book that has pattern drafts of simple garments from several historic periods, shifts/chemises included. -Carol > I have always thought of chemise's as being simple peasent blouses that > were simply of difrent lengths. Is this corect? For that mater is there > any historical basis for the drawstring peasent blouse at all? Does anyone > know where I can get some good tips for makeing more corect chemise's, I > have specific intrest in a particular period. > > Thanks > Kit. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 12:55:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HGt4RM019609 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 12:55:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HGr7NX017878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 10:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HGr2xS032423; Mon, 17 May 2004 10:53:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HGqxxS032354 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 10:52:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from archaeosoft1 (c-24-16-245-183.client.comcast.net[24.16.245.183]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004051716525401500b9kr4e>; Mon, 17 May 2004 16:52:54 +0000 Message-ID: <004d01c43cf8$9de14a40$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> From: "Gia" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000701c43a82$9c8a3800$6a01a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boning tips that work for me! Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:53:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh dear. Well I have used the *boning* (without the bias tape) quite successfully trowing out the bias tape as utterly usless. Now, I'm going to share how *I* use boning. It isn't the only way, but it works for me. I'm not going to get into the construction of the garments, just the boning techiniques I use. I've sewn (both hand and machine) using the bias tape and find that it just *gives* and allows too much 'play' in the channel for the boning. Makes the boning uncomfortable and provided no stiffening or support whatsoever. Then I started to use twill tape of any fibe content with the boning. Once I began using the twill tape, with machine sewing using the zipperfoot, the boning began to be more supported and stable. It moved far less in the channel. However, there was just still a little too much play in the channel for the boning, when machine stitched, for much real support; for example, for fathingales or corsets. When I began combining machine and hand sewing the boining I found that it provided more of both the stiffening and support needed. What I do is this: Farthingale: Sew the farthingale together, with a quilting pencil mark whereever I want a row of boning, usually the top of the row. I like to use heavy duty quilting thread to sew the farthingale and to sew the tape on; but you can use whatever you like to use, that is strong enough to endure the strain. Machine stitch the top edge of the tapes to the garment. I don't use pieced twill tape, if at possible and sew all the rows down in one sitting. I use the great big quilting 'basting safety pins' to pin the (use as many 'multiple shannel' rows of support I need to support the fabric, but each channel gets it's own edge stitching!) I use quilting safety pins to secure boning within the twill tape and for handsewing comfort; it's easier to move the pins around, too, to where I need them as I am working my way around. And I don't skimp on the number of pins I use, either! Using the backstitch, I stitch right up against the edge of the boning! I make it fairly snug, but not stretching against the stitch. I cut the tape long enough to secure the beginning and the ends by tucking the twill *under* the boning and next to the garment fabric so each end is selfcontained. This is *very* important: Then I overcast stitch the two 'finished' ends of the tape (the fold part covering the ends of the boning) together. If extra support is needed to keep the ends from making a 'crease' I use more twill tape to sew over the join, making sure to pull the cut ends of the twill being stitched on, so that it is very snug, and stitch entirely all around the 'patch'. Sometimes I double-layer the patch, if extra support is needed. Corsets: I sew together each of the layers *separately* from the other, either by hand or machine or a combination. Usually I don't grade the seam allowances, because I generally use a 1/2 seam. I now have a lining layer, inter-lining and the outer fabric layer. Then I baste the inter-lining and the lining together, wrong side of inter-lining up against the wrong side of the lining; this is so that those seams don't 'show' or 'shadow' through to the fashion fabric. Baste fashion fabric to lining combo, wrong side to right side of interlining. I generally baste once along each seam, around the raw edges down about 1" (for binding the raw edges), where the ends of the bones will be (as a guideline) and about every 3 inches. Using a quilter's pencil, lightly draw *one* line right side of fashion fabric for *each 'angle'* of boning that isn't using a seam for the angle. Using the backstitch, I stitch the first side of the bone channel, insert bone *inbetween the INTER-LINING and LINING, handstitch bone in, *VERY* snuggly (but not stretching!), all the way around, even across the ends of the boning. Insert next bone, and repeat as for first bone. When 'sections' of boning is done, I like to stitch an extra line of backstitch at the boning ends, just to provide more stability at the ends. When I do my boning this way, generally I only need to bone from the center front to the side front and center back to the back side seams, because I'm NOT very busty, and the boning is so well supported by the stitching and sandwich of fabrics. And I like to use the woven horsehair interfacing for the inter-lining. It's really stable. But anyways, that's how I like to do them. With this much hand sewing, I like to watch some of my favorite 'costume movies'. Granted, some of my favorite movies aren't really accurate, costume-wise, but they are fun to watch! Happy stitching! Emer \ Gia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 6:43 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Boning > > > On the corset ( which I should have done first I now know) it calls for > > boning. I bought what was available to me a nd that was plastic boning > > encased in material . In the pattern directions, it calls for twill tape > to > > make the casing. Which I purchased bias binding. My question is can I > used > > the encased boning as is and skip the bias tape? > [Sg] Sure can! It may be a little tricky, but you should be able to sew the > casings (with the bones in) directly to your fabric with a zig zag stitch or > even a zipper foot. Keeping them straight may be a challenge, but you can > pin them too. > > Sg > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 13:12:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HHCQRM019695 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 13:12:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HH9wNX020138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 11:09:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HH9uxS045386; Mon, 17 May 2004 11:09:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HH9nxS045217 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 11:09:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 1026899 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 17 May 2004 10:09:42 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:09:41 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Amusement for Elizabethan aficionados From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bless you, Robin. That's just great! Thanks for following up. LynnD On 5/16/04 11:19 PM, "Robin Netherton" wrote: > > A couple of weeks ago I sent a link for an amusing comic, which was > available only on that day. > > On Mon, 3 May 2004, Lynn Downward wrote: > >> Gotta get my email at home fixed. I hate only having access on weekdays! > > For Lynn and anyone else who missed it, it's now on the King features site > (which has a two-week delay on its comics archive). Go here: > > http://www.kingfeatures.com/features/comics/sixchix/about.htm > > and select Sunday, May 2. > > Interesting idea for ruff construction. > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 14:33:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HIXDRM020314 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:33:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HIU9NX029429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 12:30:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HITxxS009205; Mon, 17 May 2004 12:29:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14008.mail.yahoo.com (web14008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4HITuxS009167 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 12:29:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040517182953.91885.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 17 May 2004 19:29:53 BST Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 19:29:53 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chemise construction To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002601c43c1e$bd960ef0$b7a5aeac@preferre406gqb> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO if you tell us which period, we can probably point you in the right direction. Several of Tiziano's paintings show women in drawstring neck chemises, but that is the 16th century in Italy. Catalina --- Marian Brock-Andersen wrote: > I have always thought of chemise's as being simple > peasent blouses that were > simply of difrent lengths. Is this corect? For > that mater is there any > historical basis for the drawstring peasent blouse > at all? Does anyone know > where I can get some good tips for makeing more > corect chemise's, I have > specific intrest in a particular period. > > Thanks > Kit. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 16:21:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HKLgRM021040 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 16:21:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKJINX011329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 14:19:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKJDxS097700; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:19:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKJAxS097669 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:19:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 2C46A5CC437; Mon, 17 May 2004 16:19:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0224.floodcity.net [198.93.211.224]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94A905CC0B1 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 16:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40A91DCE.452B435@floodcity.net> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:17:18 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <000701c43a82$9c8a3800$6a01a8c0@SG01> <004d01c43cf8$9de14a40$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, now that's a subject I'm interested in, what's your favorite? I've loved the Scarlett Pimpernell with Jane Seymour and Anthony andrews since I first saw it in the seventies? and any western known to man, except the Unforgiven and their ilk. LOL someone tell us your's. Kitty Gia wrote: With this much hand sewing, I > like to watch some of my favorite 'costume movies'. Granted, some of my > favorite movies aren't really accurate, costume-wise, but they are fun to > watch! > > Happy stitching! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 16:28:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HKSaRM021116 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 16:28:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKRhNX012481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 14:27:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKRexS004425; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:27:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKRaxS004278 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:27:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be83.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.131]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AA63547FE78 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 22:27:29 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000f01c43c4d$66ffb940$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000701c43a82$9c8a3800$6a01a8c0@SG01><004d01c43cf8$9de14a40$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> <40A91DCE.452B435@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:27:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Ever since i got "Let them eat Cake" with French and Saunders i have made that my preferred film to watch when i am stitching. I especially likes the scenes when the maid is waking up the lady after she had a visit of Maquis de Sade during the night......................:-) Bjarne --- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty Felton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:17 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) > Oh, now that's a subject I'm interested in, what's your favorite? I've > loved the Scarlett Pimpernell with Jane Seymour and Anthony andrews > since I first saw it in the seventies? and any western known to man, > except the Unforgiven and their ilk. LOL someone tell us your's. > Kitty > > Gia wrote: > With this much hand sewing, I > > like to watch some of my favorite 'costume movies'. Granted, some of my > > favorite movies aren't really accurate, costume-wise, but they are fun to > > watch! > > > > Happy stitching! > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 16:35:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HKZTRM021158 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 16:35:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKYcNX013266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 14:34:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKYZxS009629; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:34:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKYTxS009568 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:34:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be83.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.131]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 98B8D262867 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 22:34:28 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001801c43c4e$619e3390$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:34:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] ot danish wedding X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4HKZTRM021158 Status: RO I read in the newspapers and magazines about the weddingdress that it was made from 60 meters of Duchesse Satin, wich i dont believe. Even if the train 6 meters long is lined with the satin as well. They clame it weighs 10 kg. Then one magazine writes that Uffe Frank (designer of the dress) spended more than 300 hours in making it, and stitched every stitch on it. Another magazine says that it was only designed by Frank and a lady who has made several dresses for the quen sewed the weding dress. The "Silkehuset" where i also have buyed duchesse satin said that more than 200.000 cocoons of silk went to the fabric wich was made in China, dyed in Bangalore India and weaved in Italy. Do you really believe this that they used 60 meters? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 16:51:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HKpXRM021239 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 16:51:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKoiNX015068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 14:50:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKoexS021974; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:50:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKobxS021930 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:50:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BPp4G-0001ap-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 17 May 2004 13:50:36 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:50:47 -0700 Message-ID: <001f01c43c50$a19f5300$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000f01c43c4d$66ffb940$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i4HKobxS021930 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hi, > Ever since i got "Let them eat Cake" with French and Saunders i have made > that my preferred film to watch when i am stitching. > I especially likes the scenes when the maid is waking up the lady after she > had a visit of Maquis de Sade during the night......................:-) > > Bjarne > [Sg] Woah Buddy! You crack me up Bjarne...that is a hard one to top! I generally listen to National Public Radio until it starts repeating itself. I get too distracted by movies but watch the History or the Home and Garden channel. But I guess if I have to choose a movie, it would be Dangerous Liasons. I have seen it enough that I can glance up at the eye candy periodically...... Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 16:52:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HKqvRM021247 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 16:52:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKq9NX015246 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 14:52:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKq9xS023107; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:52:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKpNxS022558 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:51:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BPp50-0001nY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 17 May 2004 13:51:22 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] ot danish wedding Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:51:32 -0700 Message-ID: <002001c43c50$bce8f350$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001801c43c4e$619e3390$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1117; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO . > Do you really believe this that they used 60 meters? > > Bjarne [Sg] Nope! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 16:55:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HKtWRM021257 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 16:55:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKrdNX015462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 14:53:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKrcxS024226; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:53:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14005.mail.yahoo.com (web14005.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4HKrGxS023936 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:53:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040517205311.43021.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 17 May 2004 21:53:11 BST Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 21:53:11 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot danish wedding To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001801c43c4e$619e3390$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I made a similar dress with a 1 meter train with 14 meters of fabric.Now, It did take another 14 for the lining, but I can't imagine a train 32 meters long. Catalina --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > I read in the newspapers and magazines about the > weddingdress that it was made from 60 meters of > Duchesse Satin, wich i dont believe. Even if the > train 6 meters long is lined with the satin as well. > They clame it weighs 10 kg. > Then one magazine writes that Uffe Frank (designer > of the dress) spended more than 300 hours in making > it, and stitched every stitch on it. Another > magazine says that it was only designed by Frank and > a lady who has made several dresses for the quen > sewed the weding dress. > The "Silkehuset" where i also have buyed duchesse > satin said that more than 200.000 cocoons of silk > went to the fabric wich was made in China, dyed in > Bangalore India and weaved in Italy. > Do you really believe this that they used 60 meters? > > Bjarne > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 16:57:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HKvIRM021264 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 16:57:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKuTNX015726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 14:56:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HKuSxS026505; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:56:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14006.mail.yahoo.com (web14006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4HKuPxS026464 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:56:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040517205625.41036.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.152.154] by web14006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 17 May 2004 21:56:25 BST Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 21:56:25 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <40A91DCE.452B435@floodcity.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I like the "Three Musketeers" with Michael York. Except for Raquel Welch's dresses of course. Catalina --- Kitty Felton wrote: > Oh, now that's a subject I'm interested in, what's > your favorite? I've > loved the Scarlett Pimpernell with Jane Seymour and > Anthony andrews > since I first saw it in the seventies? and any > western known to man, > except the Unforgiven and their ilk. LOL someone > tell us your's. > Kitty > ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 17:06:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HL6sRM021320 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:06:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HL6ANX017041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 15:06:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HL65xS034262; Mon, 17 May 2004 15:06:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HL5xxS034171 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 15:06:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28990 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 16:07:15 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:07:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot danish wedding In-Reply-To: <001801c43c4e$619e3390$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 17 May 2004, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Do you really believe this that they used 60 meters? Only if they made a whole lot of mistakes and had to throw a bunch out :-P --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 17:19:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HLJCRM021400 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:19:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HLIMNX018431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 15:18:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HLIL8M043871; Mon, 17 May 2004 15:18:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20212.mail.yahoo.com (web20212.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.75]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4HLII8M043829 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 15:18:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040517211817.9989.qmail@web20212.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20212.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:18:17 PDT Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 14:18:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Kessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot danish wedding To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20040517205311.43021.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's an impressive overhead view of the train on http://www.berlingske.dk/forside/artikel:aid=438030:fid=100100046/# Click on the picture labelled "Bruden ankommer til kirken", a picture of the bride and escort outside on the street. Keep hitting next> in the window that pops up, and it's about the 15th picture in that series. You can see them walking down the aisle in church, with her train spread out for 5 pews behind her. Maybe good-quality silk satin is only available in narrow widths? If that train needed two widths (plus two for the other side), that could add up really quickly, then of course the skirt looks like it's self-lined, plus the layer of antique lace (I wonder if that was yard goods, and if so, how wide), plus its lining. They could even be counting the veil. Still, it seems a stretch to get to 60 meters. -Angela -Angela __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 17:42:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HLgSRM021502 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:42:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HLaFNX020582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 15:36:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HLa18M057890; Mon, 17 May 2004 15:36:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav24.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HLZw8M057742 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 15:35:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:35:51 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav24.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 17 May 2004 21:35:50 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002001c43c50$bce8f350$6a01a8c0@SG01> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot danish wedding Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 17:36:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 May 2004 21:35:51.0198 (UTC) FILETIME=[ECDD0BE0:01C43C56] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > . > > Do you really believe this that they used 60 meters? > > > > Bjarne > [Sg] Nope! Unless they started over a few times, made sleeves then removed them, and replaced a few pieces... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 18:26:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HMQrRM021643 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:26:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HMOxNX025488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 16:24:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HMOs8M094395; Mon, 17 May 2004 16:24:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HMOp8M094328 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 16:24:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from archaeosoft1 (c-24-16-245-183.client.comcast.net[24.16.245.183]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004051722244601200kvd0je>; Mon, 17 May 2004 22:24:46 +0000 Message-ID: <006101c43d26$faef39d0$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> From: "Gia" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000701c43a82$9c8a3800$6a01a8c0@SG01><004d01c43cf8$9de14a40$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> <40A91DCE.452B435@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:25:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi! I like to watch Ever After, Much Ado About Nothing (with Emma Thompson), A Knight's Tale, A Midnights Summer Dream (with Calista Flockhart), Sense and Sensibility ( Emma again), Taming of the Shrew (with Liz Taylor). When I get to have a large block of time to get and handsew I like to watch Gone with the Wind or Pride and Prejudice (with Colin Firth). I have others, but they are old black and whites, and I like to just watch those with popcorn...extra butter! So no sewing stuff at all with buttery fingers! Happy Stitching! Emer \ Gia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty Felton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 1:17 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) > Oh, now that's a subject I'm interested in, what's your favorite? I've > loved the Scarlett Pimpernell with Jane Seymour and Anthony andrews > since I first saw it in the seventies? and any western known to man, > except the Unforgiven and their ilk. LOL someone tell us your's. > Kitty > > Gia wrote: > With this much hand sewing, I > > like to watch some of my favorite 'costume movies'. Granted, some of my > > favorite movies aren't really accurate, costume-wise, but they are fun to > > watch! > > > > Happy stitching! > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 18:42:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HMgVRM021722 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:42:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HMduNX027124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 16:39:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HMdr8M006237; Mon, 17 May 2004 16:39:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HMdh8M006105 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 16:39:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA16879 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:39:41 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] ot danish wedding Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 17:39:40 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001801c43c4e$619e3390$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No, but only if perhaps a copy was made(in case of mishap)and perhaps another copy for museum or historic purposes. Or maybe they ordered and purchased 60 metres. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 3:35 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] ot danish wedding I read in the newspapers and magazines about the weddingdress that it was made from 60 meters of Duchesse Satin, wich i dont believe. Even if the train 6 meters long is lined with the satin as well. They clame it weighs 10 kg. Then one magazine writes that Uffe Frank (designer of the dress) spended more than 300 hours in making it, and stitched every stitch on it. Another magazine says that it was only designed by Frank and a lady who has made several dresses for the quen sewed the weding dress. The "Silkehuset" where i also have buyed duchesse satin said that more than 200.000 cocoons of silk went to the fabric wich was made in China, dyed in Bangalore India and weaved in Italy. Do you really believe this that they used 60 meters? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 19:12:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HNCgRM021877 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 19:12:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HNC0NX000176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 17:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HNBu8M028236; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:11:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4HNBr8M028195 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:11:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from angelalazear@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO AngelaFLazear) (angelalazear@sbcglobal.net@63.202.198.62 with login) by smtp811.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2004 22:35:19 -0000 Message-ID: <011801c43c5f$38c1c840$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> From: "angelalazear" To: Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 15:35:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone know of an online source, or a book where I can obtain reprints of the portraits of Henry VIII's wives that are in the State museum in Germany? I can get the exact name of the museum, I think it's in Berlin. They are in black and white? A friend's daughter was recently there, and she took a snapshot of one (OOPS) before she realized it was a no photo zone, but she'd really like copies and I'd like to find a book for her, or maybe an on line source. thanks! angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 19:30:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HNUaRM021939 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 19:30:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HNTkNX001878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 17:29:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HNTh8M039887; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:29:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net (starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HNTe8M039861 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:29:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.57.8.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.57.8] helo=HELENPINTO) by starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BPrYB-0003bQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 17 May 2004 16:29:40 -0700 Message-ID: <00fb01c43c66$d02e4300$08399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <011801c43c5f$38c1c840$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 19:29:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef1822a0561b33b19705109c3dd1be7d29350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Several portraits of Henry, plus Catherine Howard, Anne of Cleves, and Jane Seymour (all by Holbein) can be found at the Web Gallery of Art. There are also portraits of Anne Boleyn and Catherine Parr by an unknown artist, and one of Catherine of Aragon by Horenbut. Go to http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/welcome.html and click on the "Search Engine". Enter "Henry VIII" in the text search box, and it will bring up all the portraits (and lots of Holbein). You can also search in altavista in the image section- http://www.altavista.com/image/default Search for each wife by name, and it will bring up lots of portraits of each one. Web Gallery will list the museum; in altavista, you'll have to dig a little further to find info on the painting. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 19:47:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HNlqRM021980 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 19:47:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HNjoNX003547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 17:45:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HNjm8M049587; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:45:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.dandy.net (smtp.dandy.net [66.159.110.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HNjk8N049545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:45:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net ([209.128.249.157]) by smtp.dandy.net for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 17 May 2004 19:48:27 -0400 Message-ID: <40A94EA2.9010105@dandy.net> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 19:45:38 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chemise construction References: <20040517182953.91885.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040517182953.91885.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Catalina. This matter of drawstrings is an ongoing debate amongst some of us. Could I ask kindly of you to reference the paintings and, if possible, provide a link to an online source? Thank You, Mike T. >if you tell us which period, we can probably point you >in the right direction. Several of Tiziano's paintings >show women in drawstring neck chemises, but that is >the 16th century in Italy. > >Catalina > > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 19:50:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HNorRM021990 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 19:50:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HNo7NX004096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 17:50:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HNo48M052473; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:50:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta10-svc.ntlworld.com (mta10-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HNo18M052340 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:50:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com) Received: from acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com ([81.109.62.241]) by mta10-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040517234900.EYSI10180.mta10-svc.ntlworld.com@acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com> for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 00:49:00 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20040518002916.02731ce0@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 00:39:57 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives In-Reply-To: <011801c43c5f$38c1c840$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-231614CE; boundary="=======28634F0D=======" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======28634F0D======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-231614CE; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 23:35 17/05/2004 angelalazear said >Does anyone know of an online source, or a book where I can obtain reprints >of the portraits of Henry VIII's wives that are in the State museum in >Germany? There aren't many. Holbein only did full scale portraits of two of the wives; Jane Seymour and Anne of Cleves. There is a disputed portrait of Catherine Howard (sitter disputed, not artist), but Holbein died before there were any more. He never painted Anne Boleyn, though there is a Holbein sketch which is supposed to be of Anne Boleyn. I did discover the original entry of the first royal payment to Holbein in the royal account books when I was studying Holbein's great Whitehall fresco. His first royal employer was Thomas Cromwell, not the King, and the payment was for two "table portraits," of Henry and of Jane Seymour. It isn't clear if the extant portrait of Jane is the one referred to in the payment. Here's the Jane Seymour http://www.artunframed.com/images/artmis45/hhol87.jpg Here's the Anne of Cleves (a long URL - you might have to copy and paste into your browser) http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=bertc.com/subone/images/holbein.jpg&imgrefurl=http://bertc.com/subone/holbein.htm&h=661&w=475&sz=32&tbnid=b79bxl_SyM8J:&tbnh=134&tbnw=97&start=4&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dholbein%2Banne%2Bof%2Bcleves%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DG The Louvre holds the Anne of Cleves, and the supposed 'table portrait' of Henry is in Madrid. The State Museum of Berlin holds one Holbein portrait, but it is of a German merchant, not a royal portrait, and dates from the first period of Holbein's residency in England, when he moved outside the royal circle. The Jane Seymour is in Vienna. Washington, USA holds the portrait of the baby Prince Edward. Here are the Holbein portraits held by museums in Germany. None of them are royal, but perhaps these are what you meant: http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein48.html http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein37.html http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein39.html http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein23.html http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein27.html The greatest single collection of Holbein's work is in Basel, Switzerland. Since Holbein is one of the world's greatest masters, there are many copies of his work online. Most of the drawings are part of the Royal Collection, after George II's queen, Queen Caroline, discovered a portfolio tucked in an old desk. We should all find something like this tucked in old desks! Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT The latest Richard and Rose adventure, HARLEY STREET, is here! http://www.novelbooksinc.com/>Novelbooks Inc. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ --=======28634F0D======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======28634F0D=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 19:52:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HNqBRM021995 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 19:52:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HNpQNX004248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 17:51:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HNpP8M053290; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:51:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HNop8M052920 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:50:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragrace@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=SG01) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BPrsh-0002vM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 17 May 2004 16:50:51 -0700 From: "Saragrace T. Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:51:02 -0700 Message-ID: <001501c43c69$cfbbf1d0$6a01a8c0@SG01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <011801c43c5f$38c1c840$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/holbein_the_younger_hans.html I really like this link...it seems to have just about every online source for the artists. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 19:53:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4HNrDRM022001 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 19:53:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HNpINX004217 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 17:51:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HNpH8M053191; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:51:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta10-svc.ntlworld.com (mta10-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HNoI8M052578 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:50:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com) Received: from acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com ([81.109.62.241]) by mta10-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040517234920.EZJH10180.mta10-svc.ntlworld.com@acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com> for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 00:49:20 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20040518002916.02731ce0@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 00:39:57 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives In-Reply-To: <011801c43c5f$38c1c840$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-231614CE; boundary="=======79703402=======" X-DCC-MessageCare-Metrics: net.indra.com 1108; Body=1 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======79703402======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-231614CE; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 23:35 17/05/2004 angelalazear said >Does anyone know of an online source, or a book where I can obtain reprints >of the portraits of Henry VIII's wives that are in the State museum in >Germany? There aren't many. Holbein only did full scale portraits of two of the wives; Jane Seymour and Anne of Cleves. There is a disputed portrait of Catherine Howard (sitter disputed, not artist), but Holbein died before there were any more. He never painted Anne Boleyn, though there is a Holbein sketch which is supposed to be of Anne Boleyn. I did discover the original entry of the first royal payment to Holbein in the royal account books when I was studying Holbein's great Whitehall fresco. His first royal employer was Thomas Cromwell, not the King, and the payment was for two "table portraits," of Henry and of Jane Seymour. It isn't clear if the extant portrait of Jane is the one referred to in the payment. Here's the Jane Seymour http://www.artunframed.com/images/artmis45/hhol87.jpg Here's the Anne of Cleves (a long URL - you might have to copy and paste into your browser) http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=bertc.com/subone/images/holbein.jpg&imgrefurl=http://bertc.com/subone/holbein.htm&h=661&w=475&sz=32&tbnid=b79bxl_SyM8J:&tbnh=134&tbnw=97&start=4&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dholbein%2Banne%2Bof%2Bcleves%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DG The Louvre holds the Anne of Cleves, and the supposed 'table portrait' of Henry is in Madrid. The State Museum of Berlin holds one Holbein portrait, but it is of a German merchant, not a royal portrait, and dates from the first period of Holbein's residency in England, when he moved outside the royal circle. The Jane Seymour is in Vienna. Washington, USA holds the portrait of the baby Prince Edward. Here are the Holbein portraits held by museums in Germany. None of them are royal, but perhaps these are what you meant: http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein48.html http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein37.html http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein39.html http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein23.html http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein27.html The greatest single collection of Holbein's work is in Basel, Switzerland. Since Holbein is one of the world's greatest masters, there are many copies of his work online. Most of the drawings are part of the Royal Collection, after George II's queen, Queen Caroline, discovered a portfolio tucked in an old desk. We should all find something like this tucked in old desks! Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT The latest Richard and Rose adventure, HARLEY STREET, is here! http://www.novelbooksinc.com/>Novelbooks Inc. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ --=======79703402======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======79703402=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 20:13:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4I0DnRM022083 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:13:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I0D8NX006079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 18:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I0D68M065027; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:13:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I0D48M064981 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:13:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-206-244.cvip.net [129.8.206.244]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CB0A2E415 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 17:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040517170917.02c9dc00@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 17:13:00 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kimiko Small Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Colonial House series X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi All, I just caught Oprah today, and she was promoting "Colonial House" which starts tonight on PBS. More info here at the website. http://www.pbs.org/wnet/colonialhouse/ It looked rather interesting, and is set in 1628. The costumes looked interesting at least, and Oprah and Gail didn't like not wearing modern undies, especially losing the panties. I have it scheduled on our Tivo, and I hope it is as informative and interesting as Pioneer House was. Anyway, I thought I would share for those who are interested. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 20:32:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4I0WXRM022189 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:32:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I0UUNX007413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 18:30:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I0UR8M074833; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:30:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I0UO8N074803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:30:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I0anXo011470 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:36:49 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i4I0alig011468 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:36:47 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: wedding-Hello Mag. Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 20:36:46 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <40A6B121.50805@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <40A6B121.50805@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405172036.46999.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 15 May 2004 08:09 pm, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Elizabeth wrote: > > http://www.hellomagazine.com/ > > Great site, thanks! > > Maybe those of you who are more familiar with modern day fashions can > tell me this: what is "medieval" about the Princess's dress? The > magazine caption says: > > "The bride opted for an elegant medieval look with a gown featuring > lily-shaped sleeves, a dramatic almost off-the-shoulder neckline and > panels opening out from the waist to reveal 100-year-old lace" > > I know a fair amount about medieval, and although this is lovely and > chic and all those things, it sure doesn't look medieval to me! I agree. But to people whose knowledge of historic costume is limited to Victorian paintings and the occasional movie, anything with "lily shaped" sleeves will look medieval. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 20:40:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4I0ewRM022207 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:40:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I0cLNX007968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 18:38:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I0cB8M078861; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:38:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I0c98M078786 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:38:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A2EC4264A for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 19:57:20 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40A95EAA.2020205@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 19:54:02 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] brown and red repro fabrics on clearance X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO All, A few weeks ago we were talking about the new line of victorian repro cotton prints in browns and reds that Hancock Fabrics is selling. They must not be moving at all because my local store now has them on clearance for $1 a yard, marked down from the regular $5.99 price. So if mid-1800's is your thing, check it out. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 20:57:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4I0vfRM022280 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:57:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I0ufNX009293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 18:56:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I0uc8M088409; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:56:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.compassnet.com.au [203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I0uY8N088291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:56:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendar@compassnet.com.au) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.181]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id i4I0wDOV018492 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:58:13 +1000 Message-ID: <04a401c43c73$088a3f40$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040517211817.9989.qmail@web20212.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot danish wedding Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:56:57 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Angela wrote: > Maybe good-quality silk satin is only available in > narrow widths? If that train needed two widths (plus > two for the other side), that could add up really > quickly, then of course the skirt looks like it's > self-lined, plus the layer of antique lace (I wonder > if that was yard goods, and if so, how wide), plus its > lining. They could even be counting the veil. Still, > it seems a stretch to get to 60 meters. I saw the bridesmaids rearrange the train at one stage, and it was definitely three widths. The outer skirt was also self-lined, and looked to me like the underskirt, under the antique irish lace (8m, they say) looked stuff enough that it could have been the same material. But still, 60 metres?? Possibly - 3 widths of the train - don't know the length, but if it's 10m, then that's 30 there. If they self-lined everything, it could get to another 4m for each layer of the skirt (4*4 - 16) - as the fabric width looked quite slim when made up in the train, plus another couple of metres for the folded decoration on the sides.(another 4m*2 - 8m, I would think). That adds up to 54m before the bodice, so maybe 60m isn't far off the mark. An absolutely beautiful dress, though. Will make for some great women's magazine covers over here in Australia. We found out an amusing thing during the wedding commentary. Mary's father used to work at the University of Tasmania, where one of my husband's teenage mentors (his father having run off when he was very young) also worked for quite a few years in the late 80s-early 90s. Thus we are 2 or a maximum of 3 (it's not that big a Uni and John is the type of person that knows EVERYONE!!!) degrees of separation away from the Danish Royal Family. My husband has always said that 6 degrees of separation is WAY too many! Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 21:43:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4I1hQRM022495 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 21:43:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I1fXNX012758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 19:41:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I1fT8M013277; Mon, 17 May 2004 19:41:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes1.whowhere.com [209.202.220.218]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4I1fS8M013188 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 19:41:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Tue, 18 May 2004 01:41:16 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 01:41:16 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Italian smocks was Re: [h-cost] Chemise construction X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.65 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Really? Please share! I've seen a number that have ribbon ties but are clearly sewn down gathers or pleats, but never a drawstring. Inquiring minds want to know... Danielle >if you tell us which period, we can probably point you >in the right direction. Several of Tiziano's paintings >show women in drawstring neck chemises, but that is >the 16th century in Italy. > >Catalina Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 21:52:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4I1qQRM022518 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 21:52:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I1pnNX013835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 19:51:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I1pl8M019971; Mon, 17 May 2004 19:51:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I1pi8N019933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 19:51:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4I1pY2x027075 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 21:51:34 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 17 May 2004 21:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40A96C2C.5080704@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 21:51:40 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot danish wedding References: <20040517211817.9989.qmail@web20212.mail.yahoo.com> <04a401c43c73$088a3f40$eaf4fea9@glendaii> In-Reply-To: <04a401c43c73$088a3f40$eaf4fea9@glendaii> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been trying to figure out how the train is attached. It looks, in some of the views from the side-back, that there's a panel which goes up the back bodice? So the train isn't carried from the waist like some, but from the whole back of the bodice. Maybe concealed hooks there so it can come off, because surely it must, so the woman could *move* after the ceremony! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Losing weight is like chipping away at boulder with a toothpick. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 22:12:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4I2C2RM022608 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 22:12:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I2BCNX015453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 20:11:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I2B98M030062; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:11:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I2B78M030000 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:11:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1d7.2167c771 (2612) for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 22:11:00 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1d7.2167c771.2ddacab4@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:11:00 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/17/2004 4:28:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > With this much hand sewing, I > >>like to watch some of my favorite 'costume movies'. How do you do this? I can either watch the movie or watch my stitching. I usually put on some Bach or Stravinsky or maybe a Monteverdi or Handel opera and listen while I watch what I'm sewing. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 22:51:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4I2psRM022744 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 22:51:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I2pDNX018196 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 20:51:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I2pB8M050356; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:51:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I2p98M050335 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:51:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i4I2p5UL017703 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 22:51:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001901c43c82$f438e180$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.0.0.14.0.20040518002916.02731ce0@pop.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:50:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have an image in my portrait file of Jane Seymour with different lower sleeves. They appear to be a creamy off-white and are pleated from wrist towards the elbow (which of course, can't be seen since it's beneath the voluminous folded upper sleeve). The gown appears to be the same as in the portrait that's the best known. I wish I could tell you where it came from, but I've lost the documentation over the years. It is identified as being a Holbein and does look like one of his works. I do remember emailing the museum, hoping that they could tell me more about it, but they really couldn't. And I do remember that English was not their native language. I'll try to find a place to put the image so that y'all can see it. I'll post the url when I can find webspace. kate PS--the blackwork on her chemise cuffs is also different than the famous portrait! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 23:03:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4I333RM022790 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 23:03:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I32JNX018946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 21:02:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I32G8M055715; Mon, 17 May 2004 21:02:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I32D8M055684 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 21:02:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i4I328VH027367 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 23:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004201c43c84$7fca71e0$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.0.0.14.0.20040518002916.02731ce0@pop.ntlworld.com> <001901c43c82$f438e180$1902a8c0@duncan> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 23:02:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Jane Seymour, was: Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I found it online. Go here: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1535h/03seymou.jpg It's in Mauritshuis, The Hague. kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 17 23:05:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4I35xRM022802 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 23:05:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I35NNX019167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 21:05:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I35L8M057773; Mon, 17 May 2004 21:05:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I35I8M057735 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 21:05:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id C5CB05CC4C7; Mon, 17 May 2004 23:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0013.floodcity.net [198.93.211.13]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79A135CC38E for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 23:05:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40A97CFA.5C106541@floodcity.net> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 23:03:22 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) References: <1d7.2167c771.2ddacab4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know how to tell you how... I guess it is sort of look up, then down to place the stitch, then up as I draw it through, then down to place another. during the best scenes, all stitching might stop, or during a scene which isn't very interesting or which I know well enough to be able to follow it without looking I might not watch at all, but mostly I do, even the boring scenes. A boring scene could provide time to do a very difficult part, but most hand stitching isn't that difficult. anyway, hope this helps. Kitty AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/17/2004 4:28:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > > > With this much hand sewing, I > > >>like to watch some of my favorite 'costume movies'. > > How do you do this? I can either watch the movie or watch my stitching. > > I usually put on some Bach or Stravinsky or maybe a Monteverdi or Handel > opera and listen while I watch what I'm sewing. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 00:02:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4I42dRM023076 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 00:02:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I424NX023047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 22:02:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I41j8M086297; Mon, 17 May 2004 22:01:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I41e8M086193 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 22:01:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.f4.3b2f0bcb (3874) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 00:01:32 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 00:01:32 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/17/2004 11:05:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, basyefelton@floodcity.net writes: > I don't know how to tell you how... I guess it is sort of look up, then > down to place the stitch, then up as I draw it through, then down to > place another. Thanks.....I'll give it a try.... Seriously, I wasn't being nasty or even advocating classical music. I mean, listen to what you want....and watch what you want. I know a lot of people who can watch TV and sew [and do other things too]. I can't. The screen will take my attention every time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 00:29:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4I4TcRM023236 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 00:29:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I4T2NX024820 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 22:29:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I4T18M099939; Mon, 17 May 2004 22:29:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I4Sx8M099889 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 22:28:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from archaeosoft1 (c-24-16-245-183.client.comcast.net[24.16.245.183]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20040518042853012004r86ee>; Tue, 18 May 2004 04:28:53 +0000 Message-ID: <004101c43d59$d82c92c0$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> From: "Gia" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1d7.2167c771.2ddacab4@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:29:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I find that I look up fairly frequently when I am really repetitive things. Things like the backstitching I use for handsewing gowns, the farthingale and corsets. Or hemming, seam finishing and other utility stitching. Plus, my eye doctor says that I have to decrease my eyestrain and 'pause' in my sewing every 15 min because of my CTS. I figured that if I'm supposed to look up and rest my hands, I may as well look up and watch a few minutes of a movie while my hands are resting. No matter what I do, I listen to the movie while I'm sewing and just watching when it seems to feel right for me to do that. Anyhow, again, that is what works for me. Everyone has a different thing they do...whatever works is good. Happy stitching! Emer \ Gia ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) > In a message dated 5/17/2004 4:28:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > > > With this much hand sewing, I > > >>like to watch some of my favorite 'costume movies'. > > How do you do this? I can either watch the movie or watch my stitching. > > I usually put on some Bach or Stravinsky or maybe a Monteverdi or Handel > opera and listen while I watch what I'm sewing. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 00:37:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4I4b5RM023257 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 00:37:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I4ZENX025229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 May 2004 22:35:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I4ZD8M003199; Mon, 17 May 2004 22:35:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I4ZA8M003146 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 22:35:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from archaeosoft1 (c-24-16-245-183.client.comcast.net[24.16.245.183]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20040518043504012004s57je>; Tue, 18 May 2004 04:35:04 +0000 Message-ID: <005701c43d5a$b5832bc0$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> From: "Gia" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:35:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, that can happen. I can stitch for hours in total silence, oblivious to everything and not know hours have passed. Those times are rare and cherished when they occur. The stitching that requires my full attention is "counted" stitching, be it tent stitch or cross stitch. Where the design isn't drawn or painted on the ground cloth I need to concentrate fully or I miscount and lose my place easily. The fact that I have an astygmatism makes it even harder; it's frustrating when I have to look up at a 'bad time' like in the middle of counting where I need to stitch. Hope that helps! Emer \ Gia > > Seriously, I wasn't being nasty or even advocating classical music. I mean, > listen to what you want....and watch what you want. I know a lot of people who > can watch TV and sew [and do other things too]. I can't. The screen will take > my attention every time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 03:26:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4I7QMRM017271 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 03:26:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I7NlNX003671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 01:23:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I7NZ8M078315; Tue, 18 May 2004 01:23:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I7NX8M078299 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 01:23:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-70-32.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.70.32]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4I7MsjV027589 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 00:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040518002000.02092e30@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 00:20:24 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] brown and red repro fabrics on clearance In-Reply-To: <40A95EAA.2020205@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >A few weeks ago we were talking about the new line of victorian repro >cotton prints in browns and reds that Hancock Fabrics is selling. They >must not be moving at all because my local store now has them on >clearance for $1 a yard, marked down from the regular $5.99 price. How long is the sale? Or is it just discounted? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 05:05:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4I95jRM018251 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 05:05:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I93aNX007815 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 03:03:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I93U8M021027; Tue, 18 May 2004 03:03:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4I93S8M021018 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 03:03:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-70-32.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.70.32]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4I93HjX021040 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 02:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040518004719.01ef61d0@mail.frys.com> Message-Id: <4.1.20040518004719.01ef61d0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 00:56:48 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) In-Reply-To: <005701c43d5a$b5832bc0$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Yeah, that can happen. I can stitch for hours in total silence, oblivious to >everything and not know hours have passed. Those times are rare and >cherished when they occur. No pictures or sound - that's me too. I stitch with my hands, and usually do something else with my brain, like working out the details of the living history character who will be wearing the thing I'm sewing. >The stitching that requires my full attention is "counted" stitching, be it >tent stitch or cross stitch. Where the design isn't drawn or painted on the >ground cloth I need to concentrate fully or I miscount and lose my place >easily. While doing counted thread cross stitch I only have to concentrate on the first half of each row, when I'm doing the actual counting. The second half is only going back and finishing the stitches I did in the first half, so I can think some more about those living history characters (I'm actually working on a character from the Harry Potter universe right now, and doing cross stitch for that character's robe). Obligatory costume content for this paragraph: I am making two Harry Potter style robes for the opening of the third film in that series, and I'm relying heavily on the Janet Arnold pattern book with the Renaissance robes in it. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 08:14:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ICEWRM019463 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 08:14:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ICCLNX017551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 06:12:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ICCB8M097447; Tue, 18 May 2004 06:12:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ICC68M097371 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 06:12:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD6487C40082; Tue, 18 May 2004 07:11:16 -0500 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD12B901CC; Tue, 18 May 2004 07:09:54 -0500 Message-ID: <00c901c43cd1$1bcce220$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:10:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A Year in Review X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4ICEWRM019463 Status: RO Hello everyone, I am passing this also to you all on h-costume because of your wonderful support for my endeavors since 1996. This is kind of a "State of the Union" message for our Library. Next week is the one year anniversary of the new format and turning our Online Reference Library over to pay site. May 25 is our one year anniversary. Our goal is to make our Library the largest collection of historic fashion reference material on the web. We maintained the Library as a free site from June 1996 until May 2003. Many thanks to so many people who believed enough to subscribe... you are pioneers. Your subscriptions helps us to purchase more software and publications, and pay webspace costs. Many people have been working on making the dream / goal a reality... several people have been working on it, from our very first interns (graphic artists, typist, translators, and webpage designers), to our staff, instructors (who assist in dating the photographs and descriptions), planning committee, people who loan images and publications, and advertisers. They are located all over the world. Please take time to read the entire list of these people at the end of this message. If you see one of these people online, please give them a big thank them for their hard work. To date, we have over 2,100 webpages in our Library and countless images. For the past six months, The Costume Gallery has been averaging visitors from 140 countries per month. That is 60% of the countries in the world! Every month we have more subscribers, and several have year subscriptions. We are also offering subscriptions with three online classes. We also have our first school as a group subscriber, the fashion design students at William Clark College in Australia. We plan to approach other schools about group subscriptions. NEW ORDER OF THE LIBRARY FRONT PAGE To make the Library easier to search, we are in the process of changing the front webpage of the Library. It will contain six bookshelves instead of four. If you go to the site within the week or so, and it looks strange, it is because we are adding the new shelves. Here is a listing of what the new shelf order when complete: The new order of the shelves: #1. A Year in Fashion: Fashion Articles #2. Vintage Books Online #3. Vintage Catalogs Online #4. Research by Topic #5. Portfolio of Costumes #6. Research by Time & Photo Collections A lot of people do not realize how many books and catalogs we have online. Honestly, we have so many that I even forgot until I listed them for Shashy, our graphic artist, for the re-modeling of the front page of the Library. I do keep a webpage count for the Library. Susan completed a 1902 Ladies' Shoe catalog yesterday... that brings the count up to 226 webpages in A Year of Fashion: 1902. The two new shelves in the Library will be titled "Vintage Books Online" and "Vintage Catalogs Online." If you want to see these titles, please check the listings below for what will be on these bookshelves: VINTAGE BOOK SHELF: Handbook of German Dress: http://www.costumegallery.com/germbook.htm 1852: Ladies' Indispensable Assistant: (excerpts)http://www.costumegallery.com/Book_1852/homepage.htm 1882 Etiquette: http://www.costumegallery.com/1882/Etiquette/ 1921 Etiquette: http://www.costumegallery.com/1921/Etiquette/ 1899 Hair Care Manual: http://www.costumegallery.com/1899/ 1911 Sewing Manual: http://www.costumegallery.com/1911/Dressmaker/ 1922 Color & Dress: http://www.costumegallery.com/1922/Color/ VINTAGE CATALOG SHELF: 1902 Ladies' Shoes: http://www.costumegallery.com//Library/1902/shoes/shoepage1.html 1910 Men's Shoes: http://www.costumegallery.com/1910/Men/Shoes/ 1920 Ladies' Shoes: http://www.costumegallery.com/Library/1920/Shoes/ 1922 Maternity Wear: http://www.costumegallery.com/1922/Maternity/ 1922 Rubber Fashions: http://www.costumegallery.com/1922/Rubber/ 1922 Hairdressing: http://www.costumegallery.com/Library/1922/WestBeauty/ 1910 Menswear: http://www.costumegallery.com/1910/Men/Suits/ 1923 Menswear: http://www.costumegallery.com/1923/Men/ 1923 Band Uniforms: http://www.costumegallery.com/1923/Uniforms/ 1923 Ladies Bathing Suits: http://www.costumegallery.com/Library/1923/Lombard/Swimsuits/ For those wanting to know from where we pull the articles and images for the A Year in Fashion Articles series (1st shelf), here listing of the publications we have used: ***Ladies' Magazine: (1804, 1812, 1828) ***The Ladies' Cabinet of Fashion, Music and Romance: (1838) ***Peterson's Magazines: (1849, 1856, 1863, 1864, 1865, 1867, 1868, 1872, 1880) ***Godey's Lady's Magazine: (1841, 1860, 1872, 1889) ***Frank Leslie's Gazette of Fashion: (1864, 1865) ***Ladies' Friend Magazine (1870) ***Delineator Magazine: (1881, 1882, 1886, 1893, 1894, 1896, 1897, 1900, 1901, 1902, 1920, 1921, 1922, 1923) in-house... we have almost the entire collection of Delineator from 1880-1925. ***Ladies' Home Journal: (1893, 1894, 1895, 1911, 1912) ***McCall's Magazine: (1908, 1911) ***Bulletin: monthly Journal of the National Retail Clothier's Association: (1918) ***L'Art et la Mode: (1920, 1921, 1922, 1923) We have so many projects in the works for next year. We are translating the website into different languages, Spanish, Italian, and French. Here are some of our works in progress: ***Fashion Articles and/or Images for 1812, 1849, and 1872. ***Articles about Queen Victoria and other Royals of Europe... The Queen's Masquerade Ball 1845, her daughter's wedding, and the Queen's Jubilee. ***Costume Encyclopedia... massive project. A compilation of three costume books in a searchable database. ***Continuing our Costume Heaven photo series. These are photos of statues in cemeteries that are costumed dramatically. ***The complete book of Lord Chesterfield's etiquette from 1814. ***More additions to our series "Designers of Their Time." ***Lots more catalogs, books, and magazines. CREDITS... who has been working on the Library: Staff: ***Penny E. Ladnier: (1896-present): Virginia: owner, editor, layout designer, website designer, graphics, keeper of the publications and images. ***Susan Bosarge: (1999-present): Alabama: vice-chair of everything of the entire website, you will see her from the Classrooms to Library to the Costume Ball, she does bookkeeping, tech support, web design, graphics, and teaches us new software and tricks. She also works on all the shoe catalogs! She is a shoe diva! ***Sharon (Shashy) Saracino: Pennsylvania: (2000-present) graphics guru, keeper of the graphics for the main pages of the library... yes, she made all the books and bookshelves. She also does graphic design for the fashion plates, and types text! ***Dr. Nikki Delaney: (2003-present): Montana: Editor of the articles & fastest typist I have ever seen! ***Eloise Scroggins: (2004 to present): Mississippi: Bookkeeper. ***Joe Ladnier: (1996-present): Virginia: Database Administrator, and fixes all our computers when they break or go crazy, and assists with software. Instructors who assist with the Library: Jennie Chancey: (2000-present): Virginia: Assists in dating and descriptions of photos. Marna Jean Davis: (2001-present): Oklahoma: Assists in dating and descriptions of photos. Loaned photos for the section, "A Brush with History: Vintage Hairstyles." Library Review Committee: planned the transition of the Library to a pay site. Penny Ladnier Susan Bosarge Shashy Saracino Joy Matthews Hobbs Marna Jean Davis Angela Lazear Rachel Torrey Joe Ladnier Costume Encyclopedia Crew: Penny Ladnier: Compiler and website designer Susan Bosarge: Graphic Design and their webpage designer Nannette King: Literature character and historic costume consultant Kate Bunting: Literature character and historic costume consultant Dr. Nikki Delaney: Typist Tania Gruning: Typist Joe Ladnier: Database Adminstrator Translators for the Library: Dalila de Leon: Mexico: translating to Spanish Joseph & Giovanna Pedicini: Virginia: translating to Italian Christy Bickerstaff: Michigan: translating to French Interns for the Library: ***Kelly Rinne: (1997-1999): Michigan: Our first intern! Graphics and webpage design ***Minty (2000): New Zealand: Designed, typed, and graphic artist, for the Ladies Fashions in A Year in Fashion: 1893. ***Kimiko Small: (2003-present): California: graphics and webpage design ***Deborah Barclay: (2003-present): started out in Germany, now in England: typist, graphics, and webpage design. ***Anita Kindt: (2003): Colorado: typist ***Jennifer Kopaska: (2003): Iowa: typist and webpage design. ***Michelle Hain: (2003): California: typist ***Dianne Stucki: (2003): Pennsylvania: Typist ***Dalila de Leon: (2003-present): Mexico: Typist and really fast! ***Shirley Hobbs: (2003-present): Arizona: Typist... another really fast one! ***Maida Pirich: (2003-present): California: Typist and Excel (spreadsheet) guru! ***Tania Gruning: (2003-present): Denmark: Another fast typist! She has typed entire books in a few days! ***Miche Todd: (2003-present): Kentucky: Crochet and Knitting typist... bless her heart, this is not easy to type these pattern instructions. ***Christy Bickerstaff: (2003-present): Michigan: Lace pattern and Delineator typist... bless her heart too, this is not easy to type these pattern instructions either. ***Judith Miller: (2003-present): Kansas: Crochet and Knitting typist... also shares her Peterson's collection with us. ***Julianne Bramson: (2003): California: typist ***Rachel Torrey: (2003-present): California: typist specializing in royalty costumes. ***Joy Matthew Hobbs: (2003-present): Wyoming: typist for Peterson's and Godey's magazines. ***Yvette Miller: (2003-present): England: typist ***Crystal Fitch: (2003): California: typist We would also like to thank all those people who loaned publications, images, or software assistance to use in the Library over the years: Mary Lovejoy, Karen Augusta, Nancy S. in Maryland, the business Making Time, Shashy, Judy Miller, Arlene Bartnik, Drea Leed, and several others! We would also like to thank the members of the h-costume email list for all their support over the years. They have encouraged me daily since 1996! Here's to another grand year of learning! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 08:20:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ICKlRM019704 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 08:20:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ICK8NX017993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 06:20:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ICK88M000973; Tue, 18 May 2004 06:20:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ICK58M000927 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 06:20:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AF71A5000BC; Tue, 18 May 2004 08:20:01 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.116]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 18 May 2004 08:20:00 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c43cd3$4d14eec0$745183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040517205625.41036.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:26:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 May 2004 12:20:00.0946 (UTC) FILETIME=[70FA3120:01C43CD2] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Wives and Daughters", "The Aristocrats", any version of the Bronte films, any version of "Tom Jones" will do for me. And oh yes, "War and Peace". I have three different sets of that. I find it interesting to compare the various productions. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catalina Saravia Quicedo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) > I like the "Three Musketeers" with Michael York. > Except for Raquel Welch's dresses of course. > > Catalina > > > --- Kitty Felton wrote: > > Oh, now that's a subject I'm interested in, what's > > your favorite? I've > > loved the Scarlett Pimpernell with Jane Seymour and > > Anthony andrews > > since I first saw it in the seventies? and any > > western known to man, > > except the Unforgiven and their ilk. LOL someone > > tell us your's. > > Kitty > > > > > ===== > Catalina > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 08:39:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ICdoRM020369 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 08:39:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ICcsNX019004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 06:38:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ICcr8M009384; Tue, 18 May 2004 06:38:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ICco8M009349 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 06:38:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A3DA24800B2; Tue, 18 May 2004 08:38:50 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.116]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 18 May 2004 08:38:49 -0400 Message-ID: <003701c43cd5$ef18d860$745183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1d7.2167c771.2ddacab4@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:44:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 May 2004 12:38:50.0472 (UTC) FILETIME=[123A2E80:01C43CD5] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have had the uncanny experience of NPR featuring the music of what ever period I have the luck of sewing on. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) > In a message dated 5/17/2004 4:28:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > > > With this much hand sewing, I > > >>like to watch some of my favorite 'costume movies'. > > How do you do this? I can either watch the movie or watch my stitching. > > I usually put on some Bach or Stravinsky or maybe a Monteverdi or Handel > opera and listen while I watch what I'm sewing. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 09:13:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IDDuRM020594 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:13:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IDDINX021376 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 07:13:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IDDF8M026654; Tue, 18 May 2004 07:13:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IDDC8M026591 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 07:13:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a29.in-tch.com [66.62.107.9]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4ICnGe25358 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 06:49:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AA0CC2.8070708@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 07:16:50 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chemise construction References: <20040517182953.91885.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040517182953.91885.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oooh! Oooh! I sense an impending scholarly discussion ;o), because I can't think of a *single* 16th c. painting that shows a drawstring neckline in a shift or camicia. Necklines tied with cord, yes, but not adjustable/gathery. --sue Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: > if you tell us which period, we can probably point you > in the right direction. Several of Tiziano's paintings > show women in drawstring neck chemises, but that is > the 16th century in Italy. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 09:18:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IDIhRM020616 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:18:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IDGrNX021549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 07:16:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IDGr8M028426; Tue, 18 May 2004 07:16:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IDGp8M028373 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 07:16:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a29.in-tch.com [66.62.107.9]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4ICqte26688 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 06:52:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AA0D9D.1000206@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 07:20:29 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot danish wedding References: <002001c43c50$bce8f350$6a01a8c0@SG01> In-Reply-To: <002001c43c50$bce8f350$6a01a8c0@SG01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Guys, wouldn't it depend a *lot* on how wide the fabric was? And how much "cabbage" was left over? (I hereby volunteer to take it! ;o) --sue Saragrace T. Knauf wrote: > . > >>Do you really believe this that they used 60 meters? >> >>Bjarne > > [Sg] Nope! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 09:42:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IDgGRM021788 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:42:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IDfDNX023572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 07:41:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IDfD8M041810; Tue, 18 May 2004 07:41:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IDfB8M041791 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 07:41:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a29.in-tch.com [66.62.107.9]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4IDHKe06517 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 07:17:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AA1356.3070509@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 07:44:54 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House series References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040517170917.02c9dc00@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040517170917.02c9dc00@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I watched the 1st two hours last night--a nice surprise, since I didn't know that this was "the" week. It looks pretty good, so far. They've got a good variety of people. The clothing looks pretty good, as far as I can tell, although the 17th c.'s not exactly my field of expertise I caught a couple of things--I wondered about the women tending to wear their stays without another layer over the top--they did have jackets of some sort, and the governor's wife was often wearing more than that. Since these were definitely stays, rather than boned bodices, I didn't know if that was an intentional class-division thing, or an oops. The closures looked good--necklines on shifts tied shut through buttonholes, tied closures on at least one of the women's jackets, and I saw some pewter? buttons in there, somewhere. Wondered briefly about the cross-lacing on the bodices, though (noticed it on the governor's wife, and, I think, on some of the women wearing the stays over their shifts. I really liked the variety of knitted caps the men were wearing--saw one that looked more like a flat cap, and there were some that looked like ordinary knitted caps, with a turned-up edge. Does anyone know what they used for the source for these? The Gunnister find, maybe? --sue, looking forward to tonight! Kimiko Small wrote: > Hi All, > > I just caught Oprah today, and she was promoting "Colonial House" which > starts tonight on PBS. More info here at the website. > http://www.pbs.org/wnet/colonialhouse/ > > It looked rather interesting, and is set in 1628. The costumes looked > interesting at least, and Oprah and Gail didn't like not wearing modern > undies, especially losing the panties. I have it scheduled on our Tivo, > and I hope it is as informative and interesting as Pioneer House was. > > Anyway, I thought I would share for those who are interested. > > Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 09:42:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IDgRRM021791 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:42:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IDcaNX023354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 07:38:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IDcY8M040366; Tue, 18 May 2004 07:38:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IDcU8M040315 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 07:38:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f06.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.6]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 14F7047FEA9 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:38:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003001c43cdd$67c13210$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040517211817.9989.qmail@web20212.mail.yahoo.com><04a401c43c73$088a3f40$eaf4fea9@glendaii> <40A96C2C.5080704@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot danish wedding Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:38:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Cynthia, Yes my first thoaght was about the train attachment. And you are right. The first portion of the train is cut like the back piece of the bodice and then it is hooked to the bodice on top and sides. But you really had to look very close to find that out. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 3:51 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot danish wedding > I've been trying to figure out how the train is attached. It looks, in > some of the views from the side-back, that there's a panel which goes up > the back bodice? So the train isn't carried from the waist like some, > but from the whole back of the bodice. Maybe concealed hooks there so > it can come off, because surely it must, so the woman could *move* after > the ceremony! > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > Losing weight is like chipping away at boulder with a toothpick. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 09:55:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IDtNRM021894 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:55:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IDsfNX024824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 07:54:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IDsd8M049709; Tue, 18 May 2004 07:54:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IDsY8M049680 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 07:54:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A5993A770080; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:54:33 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.105]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 18 May 2004 09:54:33 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c43ce0$8321fc80$695183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040517211817.9989.qmail@web20212.mail.yahoo.com><04a401c43c73$088a3f40$eaf4fea9@glendaii><40A96C2C.5080704@thibault.org> <003001c43cdd$67c13210$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot danish wedding Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:00:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 May 2004 13:54:33.0541 (UTC) FILETIME=[A61B7F50:01C43CDF] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have four wedding gowns from the first quarter of the 20th C and this is how three of them are carrying the train. The effect is that they flow from the shoulder and tend to keep their extension smoother without buckling. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot danish wedding > Hi Cynthia, > Yes my first thoaght was about the train attachment. And you are right. The > first portion of the train is cut like the back piece of the bodice and then > it is hooked to the bodice on top and sides. But you really had to look very > close to find that out. > > Bjarne > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cynthia Virtue" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 3:51 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot danish wedding > > > > I've been trying to figure out how the train is attached. It looks, in > > some of the views from the side-back, that there's a panel which goes up > > the back bodice? So the train isn't carried from the waist like some, > > but from the whole back of the bodice. Maybe concealed hooks there so > > it can come off, because surely it must, so the woman could *move* after > > the ceremony! > > > > -- > > Cynthia Virtue and/or > > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > > > Losing weight is like chipping away at boulder with a toothpick. > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 10:08:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IE8vRM021950 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:08:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IE75NX026037 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 08:07:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IE728M057255; Tue, 18 May 2004 08:07:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IE708M057100 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 08:07:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i4IE6kT26425.; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:06:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:06:46 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:06:39 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House series Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Great! I look forward to this series being shown on British TV. Yes, Sue, it's thought that working women in the 17th century probably did wear a stiffened bodice on its own rather than a bodice with separate stays underneath.. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 11:02:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IF2pRM022290 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 11:02:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IF0QNX001182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 09:00:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IF0N8M094245; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:00:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IF0H8M094185 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:00:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i4IF0BVH000937 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 11:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000b01c43ce8$ce512480$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:00:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not Sue, but it looked odd to me that they were wearing their corsets without something over them. The garments did not look like a stiffened bodice--the front end of the straps tie to the top of the garment, just as a corset does. It looked very like this image from Drea's website (but with a less exaggerated point): http://costume.dm.net/wardrobe/corset/corset2.jpg. At least one garment hooked in the front and also laced up the back. They were also referred to as corsets by the colonists (not that it's a definitive remark, just that they said it). Just my .02 kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House series > Great! I look forward to this series being shown on British TV. > > Yes, Sue, it's thought that working women in the 17th century probably > did wear a stiffened bodice on its own rather than a bodice with > separate stays underneath.. > > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 11:04:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IF48RM022297 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 11:04:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IF2ENX001482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 09:02:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IF2C8M095720; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:02:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IF288M095584 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:02:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5330C4264A for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:21:22 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40AA2930.70903@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:18:08 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] brown and red repro fabrics on clearance References: <4.1.20040518002000.02092e30@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.1.20040518002000.02092e30@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > How long is the sale? Or is it just discounted? It's on clearance, which around here means until it is sold. At a dollar a yard I don't expect it to stay around too long, maybe a few weeks. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 11:04:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IF4mRM022303 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 11:04:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IF3oNX001709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 09:03:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IF3o8M096988; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:03:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IF3H8M096547 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:03:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA10358 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:03:15 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Colonial House series Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:03:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The first four hours of this series(continues through Wednesday)was on my local PBS station last night. The first two things I noticed(costume-wise)was that the women's coifs(when they chose to wear them)were either inadequate to cover their hair or were worn that way and that the gromments on garments like the pair of bodies(stays)were definately modern. Most of the cast appeared as though they tried to wear to provided costumes like modern clothing--understandable when working, but not on the Sabbath. Of course the women rebelled when modesty "laws" were enforced, but frankly they didn't seem to get the idea(the "cast" had two weeks of intensive training at Plimouth Plantation before they traveled to the Colonial House site)that covering the hair could be very practical--cover bad hair days, keep hair out of the way, and that there was no time to fuss with hair. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Kate M Bunting Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:07 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House series Great! I look forward to this series being shown on British TV. Yes, Sue, it's thought that working women in the 17th century probably did wear a stiffened bodice on its own rather than a bodice with separate stays underneath.. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 11:10:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IFAkRM022339 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 11:10:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IF9uNX002170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 09:09:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IF9t8M001872; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:09:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IF9l8M001794 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:09:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA22795 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:09:45 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] brown and red repro fabrics on clearance Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:09:44 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <40A95EAA.2020205@reddawn.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Granted these red and brown repro prints would appeal to a small market. I haven't done a lot of research into 19th century fabrics, but I think the maker could have chosen patterns and colors that would have appealed much more to the modern eye as I've seen 19th century calicos in prints and colors that in complexity and beauty put modern calicos to shame. And there are plenty of surviving pre aniline dye fabrics that prove that clothing was not at all drab pre 1860's. The existing dyes, even vegetable dyes, could create vivid colors. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 7:54 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] brown and red repro fabrics on clearance All, A few weeks ago we were talking about the new line of victorian repro cotton prints in browns and reds that Hancock Fabrics is selling. They must not be moving at all because my local store now has them on clearance for $1 a yard, marked down from the regular $5.99 price. So if mid-1800's is your thing, check it out. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 11:13:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IFDXRM022357 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 11:13:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IFBhNX002304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 09:11:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IFBe8M003379; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:11:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IFBc8M003269 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:11:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.8e.b46b90e (4362) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 11:11:23 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <8e.b46b90e.2ddb819b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:11:23 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot danish wedding To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5027 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/18/2004 9:55:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: it can come off, because surely it must, so the woman could *move* after > > the ceremony! > > It definitely was not on at the reception--one of the many pictures was a great back view. Really enjoyed the pictures of all the guests--weren't some of the men's uniforms absolutely glorious? Very comic operetta looking. And to think, there's another royal wedding this weekend! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 11:15:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IFFRRM022369 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 11:15:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IFDWNX002537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 09:13:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IFDP8M004877; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:13:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IFBf8N003370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:11:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip095104.uvm.edu [132.198.95.104]) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IFBa91002154 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 11:11:37 -0400 Message-ID: <40AA27AB.102@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:11:39 -0400 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives References: <6.0.0.14.0.20040518002916.02731ce0@pop.ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.14.0.20040518002916.02731ce0@pop.ntlworld.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What a coincidence! I was just putting together a brief analysis of the differences between the Vienna Holbein painting and the Hague version. I've linked it to the Tudor portfolio page, or you can go to it directly from here: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/jane-notes.html - Hope > On 23:35 17/05/2004 angelalazear said >> Does anyone know of an online source, or a book where I can obtain >> reprints >> of the portraits of Henry VIII's wives that are in the State museum in >> Germany? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 11:20:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IFKqRM022384 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 11:20:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IFJ0NX003448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 09:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IFIn8M009325; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:18:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IFIh8M009193 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:18:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 571214264A for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:37:56 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40AA2D12.5050201@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:34:42 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Civil War pattern background X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For those who are interested, Simplicity has put the information about their new line of Civil War patterns on their website. http://www.simplicity.com/index.cfm?page=section/civilWar/index.html For example: "Patterns 5035 & 5023 - Shirts # A bit of shirt history # Four shirt styles and how they differ # Who wore Squares and Rectangles # The overshirt # Laundry marking # Original shirt with details # Placket-front workman's shirt" Each short article has background, explanations, plus pictures and photos of the garments the pattern was based on. I plan to do a lot of clicking on the Simplicty site... Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 11:44:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IFihRM022545 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 11:44:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IFgdNX006218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 09:42:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IFgY8M028517; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:42:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes1.whowhere.com [209.202.220.218]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4IFgS8M028339 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:42:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:42:07 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:42:07 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot danish wedding X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.66 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok, I really feel like an ostrich! ; ) Another royal wedding? Whose? I wasn't even aware of this one until the stuff showed up on this list! Cheers, Danielle in PhD land... >In a message dated 5/18/2004 9:55:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, >rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: >it can come off, because surely it must, so the woman could *move* after >> > the ceremony! >> > >It definitely was not on at the reception--one of the many pictures was a >great back view. > >Really enjoyed the pictures of all the guests--weren't some of the men's >uniforms absolutely glorious? Very comic operetta looking. > >And to think, there's another royal wedding this weekend! > >Ann Wass >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 12:14:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IGE1RM022690 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:14:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGC8NX009939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 10:12:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGBi8M052573; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:11:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4IGBb8M052510 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:11:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from unicorn@surewest.net) Received: (s3-9157); Tue, 18 May 2004 09:09:59 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO Cyhiraeth) (69.4.130.33) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:09:58 -0700 Message-ID: <004e01c43cf2$c7b2ea00$0a00a8c0@Cyhiraeth> From: "Joan Broneske" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40AA2D12.5050201@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Civil War pattern background Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:11:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-71 ip=69.4.130.33 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, sure, they couldn't have had this around about 5 years ago when I was doing Old Sacramento Living History! I had to make my own patterns! I wish them luck with this line, it sounds great. . /' // . // |\//7 /' " \ . . . | ( \ '._ | '._ ' '. ' / \'-'_---. ) ) . :.' | \ | . . . . ' . | | | \^ /_-': / / | | '\ .' / /| | \\ | \ \( ) // / \ | | // / L! ! // / Joan Broneske [_] L[_| unicorn@surewest.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:34 AM Subject: [h-cost] Civil War pattern background > For those who are interested, Simplicity has put the information about > their new line of Civil War patterns on their website. > > http://www.simplicity.com/index.cfm?page=section/civilWar/index.html > > For example: > > "Patterns 5035 & 5023 - Shirts > # A bit of shirt history > # Four shirt styles and how they differ > # Who wore Squares and Rectangles > # The overshirt > # Laundry marking > # Original shirt with details > # Placket-front workman's shirt" > > Each short article has background, explanations, plus pictures and > photos of the garments the pattern was based on. > > I plan to do a lot of clicking on the Simplicty site... > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 12:27:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IGRkRM022852 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:27:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGPjNX011678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 10:25:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGPg8M064129; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:25:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGOl8M063363 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:25:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 68EF65CC676; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0172.floodcity.net [198.93.211.172]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A8035CC524 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40AA383F.4060DAEB@floodcity.net> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:22:23 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) References: <20040517205625.41036.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1074; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How about the man in the Iron Mask, with Richard Camberlain. (I know I spelled that wrong.) anyway, as period films go just for watching, the masked ones where someone's identity is hidden, are the most fun for me. One I would love to see in film would be Georgette Heyer's The Masquaraders. that was one of the fun books of all time. actually though, just about any of Georgette Heyer's books would be fun to watch. Kitty Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: > > I like the "Three Musketeers" with Michael York. > Except for Raquel Welch's dresses of course. > > Catalina > > --- Kitty Felton wrote: > > Oh, now that's a subject I'm interested in, what's > > your favorite? I've > > loved the Scarlett Pimpernell with Jane Seymour and > > Anthony andrews > > since I first saw it in the seventies? and any > > western known to man, > > except the Unforgiven and their ilk. LOL someone > > tell us your's. > > Kitty > > > > ===== > Catalina > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 12:28:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IGSKRM022855 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:28:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGRfNX011955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 10:27:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGRd8M065907; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:27:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGRB8M065409 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:27:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.77.29bd9c68 (16335) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:26:58 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <77.29bd9c68.2ddb9352@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:26:58 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Civil War pattern background To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5027 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/18/2004 11:19:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: For those who are interested, Simplicity has put the information about their new line of Civil War patterns on their website. And I understand that more notes are in process, so check back again later. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 12:31:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IGVWRM022865 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:31:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGUmNX012403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 10:30:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGUl8M068599; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:30:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGUT8M068316 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:30:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id A82B65CC537; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0172.floodcity.net [198.93.211.172]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99F8D5CC66C for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40AA3993.D9BA0F6A@floodcity.net> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:28:03 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1156; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > Seriously, I wasn't being nasty or even advocating classical music. I mean, > listen to what you want....and watch what you want. I know a lot of people who > can watch TV and sew [and do other things too]. I can't. The screen will take > my attention every time. Oh, I didn't take it as nasty, each person finds their comfort level, I think I get bored watching movies, so the stitching is a better way to occupy myself than to eat which is my other boredom reducer. LOL I like Classical music, when I hear it. but there are few pieces I hear often enough to recognize, and til I do, I don't get much joy out of most of it. Well, have fun, I'm going to try to find a Handcocks. LOL I feel a new dress coming on. Kitty Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 12:34:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IGYDRM022875 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:34:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGWLNX012587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 10:32:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGWJ8M069958; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:32:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGV28M068761 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:31:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.147.29f1b6cf (16335) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:30:41 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <147.29f1b6cf.2ddb9431@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:30:41 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot danish wedding To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5027 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/18/2004 11:43:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, dannw@eudoramail.com writes: Ok, I really feel like an ostrich! ; ) Another royal wedding? Whose? I wasn't even aware of this one until the stuff showed up on this list! The crown prince of Spain is getting married May 22. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 12:34:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IGYQRM022878 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:34:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGXfNX012736 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 10:33:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGXf8M071006; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:33:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGXJ8M070720 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:33:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AACEC2500AE; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:33:18 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.104]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 18 May 2004 12:33:17 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c43cf6$b08bf480$685183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House series Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:39:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 May 2004 16:33:18.0335 (UTC) FILETIME=[D353B8F0:01C43CF5] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And I was bothered that the preacher's wife had her hair carefully arranged as to look slightly unkempt.This too is a modern concept I see every day with the under 20 crowd. Put with the modern slang that the characters use on a regular basis, there is a falsity that they certainly didn't get from Plimouth! I had a lot of problems with the 'script' as usual, and this certainly spoiled the visual 'study' of 17th C life for me. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:03 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Colonial House series > The first four hours of this series(continues through Wednesday)was on my > local PBS station last night. > > The first two things I noticed(costume-wise)was that the women's coifs(when > they chose to wear them)were either inadequate to cover their hair or were > worn that way and that the gromments on garments like the pair of > bodies(stays)were definately modern. Most of the cast appeared as though > they tried to wear to provided costumes like modern clothing--understandable > when working, but not on the Sabbath. Of course the women rebelled when > modesty "laws" were enforced, but frankly they didn't seem to get the > idea(the "cast" had two weeks of intensive training at Plimouth Plantation > before they traveled to the Colonial House site)that covering the hair could > be very practical--cover bad hair days, keep hair out of the way, and that > there was no time to fuss with hair. > > Cindy Abel > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Kate M Bunting > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:07 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House series > > > Great! I look forward to this series being shown on British TV. > > Yes, Sue, it's thought that working women in the 17th century probably > did wear a stiffened bodice on its own rather than a bodice with > separate stays underneath.. > > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 12:36:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IGa1RM022884 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:36:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGZHNX012959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 10:35:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGZF8M072416; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:35:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGXu8M071186 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:33:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02639 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 11:35:11 -0500 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:35:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) In-Reply-To: <40AA383F.4060DAEB@floodcity.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 18 May 2004, Kitty Felton wrote: > One I would love to see in film would be Georgette Heyer's The > Masquaraders. that was one of the fun books of all time. actually > though, just about any of Georgette Heyer's books would be fun to > watch. Oh yes! I can't imagine why I haven't seen *any* of them in a screen version. I wonder if there's some issue with the estate? Many worse books have been brought to screen. "The Masqueraders" would be especially good from a costume standpoint, of course. Casting that one should be fun, since both the young man and the young woman have to cross-dress convincingly. Or "These Old Shades" with the powdered hair and the various class contrasts, and isn't there some cross-dressing there too? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 12:49:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IGnnRM022972 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:49:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGkJPj014252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 10:48:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGdt8M076182; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:39:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IGdo8M076031 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:39:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from archaeosoft1 (c-24-16-245-183.client.comcast.net[24.16.245.183]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004051816393601600npikbe>; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:39:36 +0000 Message-ID: <008701c43dbf$ed8ac900$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> From: "Gia" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040517205625.41036.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> <40AA383F.4060DAEB@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:39:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh my gosh! I *love* Georgette Heyer's work! I would love to see any of her books translated onto the big screen! Every time I read her books, I can almost *see* the costumes and the settings. The masquaraders is one of my favorites. But, unfortunately I had lost many in a fire years ago and just haven't replaced them all yet. Emer \ Gia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty Felton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) > How about the man in the Iron Mask, with Richard Camberlain. (I know I > spelled that wrong.) > > anyway, as period films go just for watching, the masked ones where > someone's identity is hidden, are the most fun for me. One I would > love to see in film would be Georgette Heyer's The Masquaraders. that > was one of the fun books of all time. actually though, just about any > of Georgette Heyer's books would be fun to watch. > Kitty > > Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: > > > > I like the "Three Musketeers" with Michael York. > > Except for Raquel Welch's dresses of course. > > > > Catalina > > > > --- Kitty Felton wrote: > > > Oh, now that's a subject I'm interested in, what's > > > your favorite? I've > > > loved the Scarlett Pimpernell with Jane Seymour and > > > Anthony andrews > > > since I first saw it in the seventies? and any > > > western known to man, > > > except the Unforgiven and their ilk. LOL someone > > > tell us your's. > > > Kitty > > > > > > > ===== > > Catalina > > Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 13:05:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IH5LRM023108 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:05:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IH4QNX016650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 11:04:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IH4N8M097274; Tue, 18 May 2004 11:04:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IH3l8N096770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 11:04:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-147.sonic.net [209.148.112.147]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4IH3hps001772 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:03:45 -0700 Message-ID: <40AA4301.3040607@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:08:17 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) References: <20040517205625.41036.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> <40AA383F.4060DAEB@floodcity.net> <008701c43dbf$ed8ac900$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> In-Reply-To: <008701c43dbf$ed8ac900$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wish someone (perhaps BBC) would film Emily's Eden's _The Semi-Attached Couple_, written I think in the 1830s. It's the closest work to Jane Austen's I've ever read. Fran Grimble Lavolta Press Books on Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Gia wrote: >Oh my gosh! I *love* Georgette Heyer's work! I would love to see any of >her books translated onto the big screen! > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 13:59:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IHxHRM023404 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:59:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IHwdNX022097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 11:58:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IHwZ8M041936; Tue, 18 May 2004 11:58:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta04-svc.ntlworld.com (mta04-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IHuG8M039963 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 11:58:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com) Received: from acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com ([81.109.62.241]) by mta04-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040518175527.OVTA21153.mta04-svc.ntlworld.com@acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com> for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 18:55:27 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20040518185050.02623178@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 18:55:04 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives In-Reply-To: <40AA27AB.102@uvm.edu> References: <6.0.0.14.0.20040518002916.02731ce0@pop.ntlworld.com> <6.0.0.14.0.20040518002916.02731ce0@pop.ntlworld.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-62B0558D; boundary="=======1C037290=======" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======1C037290======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-62B0558D; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 16:11 18/05/2004 Hope Greenberg said >What a coincidence! I was just putting together a brief analysis of the >differences between the Vienna Holbein painting and the Hague version. >I've linked it to the Tudor portfolio page, or you can go to it directly >from here: >http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/jane-notes.html Interesting! However, you did refer to the drawing as being a study for the "Whitechapel" fresco! I'm sure it was a slip of the keyboard! My thesis was on the secularisation of iconography, and the Holbein fresco formed a major part of the study, so I was particularly interested in your study of the jewellery on the figure of Jane Seymour. Holbein was a jewellery designer (some studies survive) so he might have designed more than the painting! Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT The latest Richard and Rose adventure, HARLEY STREET, is here! http://www.novelbooksinc.com/>Novelbooks Inc. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ --=======1C037290======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======1C037290=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 14:07:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4II7JRM023430 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:07:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4II5GNX022900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 12:05:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4II5E8M047181; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:05:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4II1v8M044621 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:01:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i4II1pT14919.; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:01:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:01:52 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:01:27 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1074; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> ailith@neo.rr.com 5/18/04 4:00:02 PM >>> >I'm not Sue, but it looked odd to me that they were wearing their >corsets without something over them. >The garments did not look like a stiffened bodice--the front end of >the straps tie to the top of the garment, just as a corset does. It >looked very like this image from Drea's website (but with a less >exaggerated point): http://costume.dm.net/wardrobe/corset/corset2.jpg. >Just my .02 >kate Well, of course I haven't seen the series. I was thinking of http://www.vincents.demon.co.uk/stays/stays.htm#Pattern which describes a garment that can double as stays or a working-woman's bodice. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 14:07:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4II7sRM023434 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:07:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4II5ZNX022961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 12:05:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HLG78N047426; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:05:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4II218M044747 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:02:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA28784 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:01:56 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Colonial House series Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:01:55 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <001101c43cf6$b08bf480$685183d1@rmitchellras> Importance: Normal X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, that too. The PBS website claimed that there were over 10,000 applicants. I wonder how many that didn't make the cut were actually had at least some background in the period: whether it be costume, food, overall culture, building and handicrafts, or whatever. I think the raison d'etre for the shows are kind of upscale Survivor--take 21st century persons and fit them in as to what their social status might have been in that time and see how they react. PBS is supposed to start casting for the next "House" series in Nov or Dec. Don't know the year--suprised they haven't managed Civil War House or Revolutionary(American) House yet, but perhaps all interested listmembers should apply and see if any of us make the cut. And if not, why? What would really be interesting, although it would cost the major networks too much money is to do a House or even "Village" or "Town" historic series and put people in teams(of course this wouldn't work being non-competitive) with one set of participants chosen as they are now and another set with some expertise in different aspects of the period chosen. The second group would really be expected to adhere to the period's customs, laws, etc and see if they really could time-travel. Cindy Abel Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:39 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House series And I was bothered that the preacher's wife had her hair carefully arranged as to look slightly unkempt.This too is a modern concept I see every day with the under 20 crowd. Put with the modern slang that the characters use on a regular basis, there is a falsity that they certainly didn't get from Plimouth! I had a lot of problems with the 'script' as usual, and this certainly spoiled the visual 'study' of 17th C life for me. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:03 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Colonial House series > The first four hours of this series(continues through Wednesday)was on my > local PBS station last night. > > The first two things I noticed(costume-wise)was that the women's coifs(when > they chose to wear them)were either inadequate to cover their hair or were > worn that way and that the gromments on garments like the pair of > bodies(stays)were definately modern. Most of the cast appeared as though > they tried to wear to provided costumes like modern clothing--understandable > when working, but not on the Sabbath. Of course the women rebelled when > modesty "laws" were enforced, but frankly they didn't seem to get the > idea(the "cast" had two weeks of intensive training at Plimouth Plantation > before they traveled to the Colonial House site)that covering the hair could > be very practical--cover bad hair days, keep hair out of the way, and that > there was no time to fuss with hair. > > Cindy Abel > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Kate M Bunting > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:07 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House series > > > Great! I look forward to this series being shown on British TV. > > Yes, Sue, it's thought that working women in the 17th century probably > did wear a stiffened bodice on its own rather than a bodice with > separate stays underneath.. > > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 14:13:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IID1RM023444 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:13:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IICNNX023568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 12:12:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IICK8M052614; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:12:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IICH8M052542 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:12:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.12d.4172fda1 (3657) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:12:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <12d.4172fda1.2ddbabf6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:12:06 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House series To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/18/04 10:04:30 AM Central Daylight Time, brujne@creighton.edu writes: Of course the women rebelled when modesty "laws" were enforced, but frankly they didn't seem to get the idea(the "cast" had two weeks of intensive training at Plimouth Plantation before they traveled to the Colonial House site)that covering the hair could be very practical--cover bad hair days, keep hair out of the way, and that there was no time to fuss with hair. I noticed that as well. My hair is not far from being waist length, and when I'm working, hot, or just aggravated with it (which is probably a good 80% of the time) it is up in some manner. It just amused me to see these women on the show who were determined to have their hair straggling around their faces and shoulders...obviously they don't realize (yet) that women in the past put their hair up neatly for more reasons than just modesty. -Tiffany Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 14:19:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IIJuRM023462 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:19:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIHhNX024064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 12:17:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIHV8M056559; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:17:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIHF8N056296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:17:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4IIUjrp000406 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:30:48 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040518110911.02384bf8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:17:06 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: RE: [h-cost] Colonial House series In-Reply-To: References: <001101c43cf6$b08bf480$685183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My own opinion of the plethora of 'House' series is that it panders to the penchant of people who enjoy gawking at people getting frustrated while trying to live an alien lifestyle. I'll betcha that an historian who was expert in the period would be passed over in favor of somebody that would titillate the audience with her behavior while trying to cope in this foreign environment. The motivation for authenticity is that the more authentic the environment is, the more difficult it will be for modern people to cope. As always, my opinion Katie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 14:23:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IIN1RM023469 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:23:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIMLNX024612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 12:22:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIMK8M060496; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:22:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80503.mail.yahoo.com (web80503.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4IIKn8M059184 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:20:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.104.228.236] by web80503.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 18 May 2004 11:20:42 PDT Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:20:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405181633.i4IGXr8N071189@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm prefacing this with a caveat: I haven't seen the series yet as I had class last night, so my DH taped it for me. However, the series was the topic of a quick discussion on another list with a person that works at Plimoth Plantation (it came up as part of a discussion on clome ovens, way off-topic for this list). Anyway, she mentioned that Plimoth Plantation, while heavily involved in creating the series, did NOT supply the wardrobe for the "colonists"; they supplied the wardrobe for a later development (I'm trying not to give too much of the plot away), along with furniture for the houses, some food stuffs (salt pork and the such), and several weeks of training so people wouldn't set themselves on fire trying to cook or cut their limbs off using an unfamiliar tool. >From the clips I've seen as part of the advertising run-up to the series premiere last night, it appeared to me that the women "colonists" were working in their corsets, but not their bodices; for those that haven't seen the series yet, if you've ever been at a LH demonstration before/after hours, while people are getting ready, most of the women I saw looked about the same as 15th/16th C. women reenactors when they gotten as far as putting on their shifts, corsets, petticoats and skirts, but haven't put their bodices or sleeves on yet. A check of the PBS Web site page to "meet the colonists" reveals that yes, these women were running around in what most of us would consider their underwear. The same appears to hold true for the men--if the photos on the Web site are any indication, only the 2 men from the UK seem to realize that a "civilized" man was not seen in his shirt sleeves. I'm curious to see this series, as my DH and I applied to participate, and were turned down, as were probably any other active historical reenactors--we simply make it look too easy , and where's the drama in that for the average American viewer? Barring an Indian attack or an outbreak of smallpox, about the only "drama" the producer can work with is how miserable a bunch of ill-prepared 21st century people are as they try to deal with living in the early 17th century. Or do I sound too cynical? Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 14:24:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IIOrRM023472 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:24:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIO5NX024748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 12:24:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIO38M061848; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:24:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IINJ8M061226 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:23:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.156.356289bf (4402) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:23:05 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <156.356289bf.2ddbae89@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:23:05 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just saw again....after a long while..."Death on the Nile". Brilliant costumes....and wonderful evil fun. "Evil Under the Sun" was great too! [same production group] And we all remember "Murder on the Orient Express" but it seems to not be on tape or disc. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 14:25:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IIPMRM023475 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:25:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIKXNX024409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 12:20:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIKT8M059003; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:20:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIKN8M058850 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:20:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.ac.5839ecaf (3657) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:20:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:20:10 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House series To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/18/04 1:05:55 PM Central Daylight Time, brujne@creighton.edu writes: What would really be interesting, although it would cost the major networks too much money is to do a House or even "Village" or "Town" historic series and put people in teams(of course this wouldn't work being non-competitive) with one set of participants chosen as they are now and another set with some expertise in different aspects of the period chosen. The second group would really be expected to adhere to the period's customs, laws, etc and see if they really could time-travel. I think this is a SPECTACULAR idea, I think you should write or e-mail the networks and suggest it! Interest in living history has grown over recent years with the general public thanks to all the hit movies that have had period settings. And heck, if Oprah is willing to go sit in a 17th century setting for a couple of days for her show, who's to say a major network wouldn't ante up! It couldn't possibly be more expensive than financing the crews and casts of the various Survivor shows in such remote locations. I think it would be hilarious if there were a Celebrity Colonial House, myself. Except America gets to choose the celebrities. I nominate Nicole Kidman, for one - let's see if she can be that graceful and elegant without the hairdresses, makeup artists and clothing experts. ::grin:: -Tiffany Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 14:33:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IIWxRM023525 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:32:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIW7NX025765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 12:32:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIW48M068959; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:32:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIVw8M068796 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:31:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from archaeosoft1 (c-24-16-245-183.client.comcast.net[24.16.245.183]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004051818314801200ftc7be>; Tue, 18 May 2004 18:31:48 +0000 Message-ID: <005801c43dcf$9a0af330$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> From: "Gia" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:32:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nah, I think you hit the nail in the head... Emer \ Gia > I'm curious to see this series, as my DH and I applied > to participate, and were turned down, as were probably > any other active historical reenactors--we simply make > it look too easy , and where's the drama in that > for the average American viewer? Barring an Indian > attack or an outbreak of smallpox, about the only > "drama" the producer can work with is how miserable a > bunch of ill-prepared 21st century people are as they > try to deal with living in the early 17th century. Or > do I sound too cynical? > > Dawn > > ===== > Dawn Jacobson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 14:40:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IIesRM023580 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:40:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIdrNX026592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 12:39:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIdq8M074854; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:39:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIch8N074026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:38:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4IIcX2x001385 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:38:33 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40AA5830.4060200@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:38:40 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series References: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn Jacobson wrote: > or sleeves on yet. A check of the PBS Web site page to > "meet the colonists" reveals that yes, these women > were running around in what most of us would consider > their underwear. Not only that, but many of the shoulder straps were falling sideways much of the time, so they weren't put on right, somehow. I found it rather interesting. Less whining and interpersonal sniping than the one episode of Frontier House I watched. Still plenty of "no way would they have done that in the period." -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 14:41:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IIf4RM023583 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:41:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIcGNX026433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 12:38:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIcB8M073569; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:38:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIbe8M073194 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:37:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i4IIbaUL022843 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <011401c43d07$2d9f5a60$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:37:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 2:01 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series > > Well, of course I haven't seen the series. I was thinking of > http://www.vincents.demon.co.uk/stays/stays.htm#Pattern > which describes a garment that can double as stays or a working-woman's > bodice. Interesting! I don't do 17th century, just observing, you know? :-) I did go to look at the website mentioned above and got the idea that the bodice was boned on the inside, perhaps? The stays are very visible as well as the unboned area where the breasts would rest. If you go to: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/colonialhouse/media/photos4.html and click on the 4th picture from the left, top row, you can see what I'm referring to. Is what's in the photo correct for the time of 1628? Just curious. The other Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 15:00:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IJ0gRM023666 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:00:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIwjNX028401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 12:58:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIwb8M089827; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:58:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IIwU8N089741 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:58:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4IJC5rp012553 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:12:06 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040518115607.024227a8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:58:26 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [SPAM] [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series In-Reply-To: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200405181633.i4IGXr8N071189@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I totally agree. These series are entertainment under the guise of education. Their popularity keeps the funding coming in. As always, my opinion. Katie >we simply make >it look too easy , and where's the drama in that >for the average American viewer? Barring an Indian >attack or an outbreak of smallpox, about the only >"drama" the producer can work with is how miserable a >bunch of ill-prepared 21st century people are as they >try to deal with living in the early 17th century. Or >do I sound too cynical? >Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 15:05:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IJ5uRM023684 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:05:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IJ5BNX029058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 13:05:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IJ468M094538; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:04:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IJ318M093890 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:03:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu (vcs077.vet.cornell.edu [128.253.111.77]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i4IJ2vEp006770 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:02:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040518150114.00bb4c08@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:03:02 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [SPAM] [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040518115607.024227a8@mail.katiesorchids.com> References: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> <200405181633.i4IGXr8N071189@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I still want to see a series like this with two teams. One comprised of the average Joe's and the other team all "avid recreational historians" aka ringers. It would be interesting to see how the two groups approached problems. Bridgette >>we simply make >>it look too easy , and where's the drama in that >>for the average American viewer? Barring an Indian >>attack or an outbreak of smallpox, about the only >>"drama" the producer can work with is how miserable a >>bunch of ill-prepared 21st century people are as they >>try to deal with living in the early 17th century. Or >>do I sound too cynical? >>Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 15:13:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IJDURM023744 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:13:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IFwdNX008294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 09:58:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IFwb8M041577; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:58:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IFw08M040953 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:58:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from archaeosoft1 (c-24-16-245-183.client.comcast.net[24.16.245.183]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004051815575501600nrh7le>; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:57:55 +0000 Message-ID: <007d01c43dba$1a8ce830$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> From: "Gia" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot danish wedding Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:58:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey! I just noticed your sig line! Congratulations on your success! Another doctor in the house (hee hee)! Emer \ Gia > Cheers, > Danielle in PhD land... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 15:35:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IJZqRM023869 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:35:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IJUtNX001779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 13:30:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IJUr8M017257; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:30:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IJTt8M016320 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:29:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i4IJTrT19359.; Tue, 18 May 2004 20:29:53 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 18 May 2004 20:29:53 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 20:29:17 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> fran@lavoltapress.com 5/18/04 6:08:17 PM >>> wrote: >I wish someone (perhaps BBC) would film Emily's Eden's _The >Semi-Attached Couple_, written I think in the 1830s. It's the closest >work to Jane Austen's I've ever read. I'd never heard of her, but according to the Cambridge Guide to English Literature the novel was published 1860 but written 30 years earlier. She also wrote "The Semi-detached House" . I'll have to look out for them - they sound interesting. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 15:42:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IJgIRM023898 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:42:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IJc7NX002483 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 13:38:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IJc58M023005; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:38:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail3.mdx.safepages.com (mail3.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IJbl8M022676 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:37:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C25C089B15 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:37:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail3.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail3.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23942-09 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:37:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 743E389B2B; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:37:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust107.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.107]) by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6765D89B10 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:37:43 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <036301c43d0f$cbd6c3f0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000b01c43ce8$ce512480$1902a8c0@duncan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:39:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I seem to be about the only one, but I actually think that PBS has taken the right tack by casting people who are overall, pretty ignorant about the daily life in whichever historical era they choose for one of these. The idea behind this series is to highlight the differences between 1628 and 2004, and that just plain works better when you have people who are completely unaccustomed to 1628. They're more able to point out what's strange to them than someone who's gotten used to the strangeness, and their reactions are more understandable to a 2004 audience. These series were just never meant to be a documentary of an accurate reenactment; they have a different goal entirely, and part of that goal is to entertain. The series still winds up being educational, but in a different way--you learn from watching people mess up, rather than watching them do it all just right. That said, I think it's possible to go in a different direction and still keep a lot of that. I think that whole Colonial House meets Survivor thing would be great, although I wouldn't make it tyros vs reenactors. I'd give each side a nice even mix of experience levels, and maybe use it to battle out conflicting theories--whose interpretation works best? Even a simple competition of which theoretically equal group becomes wealthier in 1628 terms--better harvest, more prepared for winter like on Fronteir house, etc--would be more interesting to me than just the question of whether they can survive, period. But with a mix of experience levels, you'd still have the sheer amusement value of the current series. -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 15:44:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IJiPRM023911 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:44:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IJeDNX002755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 13:40:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IJeC8M024727; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:40:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IJcg8N023459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:39:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-131.sonic.net [209.148.112.131]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4IJcdF7012249 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:38:41 -0700 Message-ID: <40AA6751.4060900@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:43:13 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Murder on the Orient Express X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have not seen Murder on the Orient Express, are the costumes good? Amazon.com sells it on both tape and DVD. I found it by going to their home page and doing searches for these formats with the keywords "Orient Express." Fran http://www.lavoltapress.com >And we all remember "Murder on the Orient Express" but it seems to not be on >tape or disc. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 15:54:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IJs9RM023972 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:54:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IJo9NX003903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 13:50:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IJo58M032715; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:50:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IJo08N032647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:50:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-131.sonic.net [209.148.112.131]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4IJnvfB014498 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:49:59 -0700 Message-ID: <40AA69F8.1030503@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:54:32 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO These two books were reprinted in one paperback volume by Virago Press and are still available, at least used. _The Semi-Detached House_ is much more Victorian. It is also anti-Semetic. I'm aware that my viewpoint is both modern and non-Jewish, but I found this aspect of it offensive. The most sympathetic Jewish character is a young woman called Rachel, who is cheated of her inheritance by her own uncle and aunt. She is intellectual and cynical, and I found her quite likeable, though to the original readership she might have seemed "unfeminine." I'm not especially into either mysteries or 1930s clothing, but for those who like both, _Gosford Park_ is a spendid and lavish period film. Fran Kate M Bunting wrote: > > >>>>fran@lavoltapress.com 5/18/04 6:08:17 PM >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>I wish someone (perhaps BBC) would film Emily's Eden's _The >>Semi-Attached Couple_, written I think in the 1830s. It's the closest >> >> > > > >>work to Jane Austen's I've ever read. >> >> > >I'd never heard of her, but according to the Cambridge Guide to English >Literature the novel was published 1860 but written 30 years earlier. >She also wrote "The Semi-detached House" . I'll have to look out for >them - they sound interesting. > > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 16:06:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IK6JRM024073 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:06:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IK5eNX005545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 14:05:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IK5X8M045398; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:05:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IK5T8M045259 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:05:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.c.2975046a (3988) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:05:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:05:18 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/18/04 2:38:48 PM Central Daylight Time, formfunc@formfunction.org writes: They're more able to point out what's strange to them than someone who's gotten used to the strangeness, and their reactions are more understandable to a 2004 audience. I think this is a really good point. If they took a group of historical reenactors and stuck them in the period that the reenactor has been wanting or pretending to live in for years, then what they would get is the basic entertainment equivalent of sticking a duck in a pond. What's interesting is when you take a duck and put it in the desert, and see what it does (metaphorically speaking, of course ... no ducks were harmed in the making of this post). What you would get, I think, with a group of 17th or 18th century reenactors put in this show, is a lot of commentary like "I can't believe they gave us these bodices, they're so inaccurate for the period" and "okay, the cameras are just totally ruining the mood here ... can you guys please film from outside the house?" -Tiffany Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 16:09:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IK9bRM024086 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:09:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IK72NX005676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 14:07:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IK6x8M046445; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:07:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80504.mail.yahoo.com (web80504.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4IK6X8M045991 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:06:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040518200621.5581.qmail@web80504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.104.228.236] by web80504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:06:21 PDT Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:06:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405181939.i4IJdT8N024106@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Re: Colonial House series X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO E House wrote-- I think that whole Colonial > House meets Survivor thing > would be great, although I wouldn't make it tyros vs > reenactors. I'd give > each side a nice even mix of experience levels, and > maybe use it to battle > out conflicting theories--whose interpretation works > best? Even a simple > competition of which theoretically equal group > becomes wealthier in 1628 > terms--better harvest, more prepared for winter like > on Fronteir house, > etc--would be more interesting to me than just the > question of whether they > can survive, period. But with a mix of experience > levels, you'd still have > the sheer amusement value of the current series. LOL! I can see it now, especially if some of the teenagers that have been recruited to play the parts of younger family members are as dim-witted as the young women on "Frontier House" were: some silly girl lets the cows she's supposed to be tending loose in the corn field because she's too busy flirting, or not paying attention, or doesn't want to do her part. She incurs the wrath of the entire team for losing the corn crop, and America gets to watch said stupid girl spend the rest of the series being publicly pilloried for endangering the entire community. Seriously, having worked with historical reenactors for the past 30 years, they are very patient when they know they have to be (such as when dealing with the public), or if the less knowledgeable people they are working with are making a sincere effort; however, I don't know that I would want to be around the same reenactors when they are having to put up with nitwits who are recuited primarily for their entertainment value as they mess things up for everybody. Things could get ugly. Very ugly. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 16:12:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IKCGRM024094 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:12:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKBbNX006253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 14:11:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKBY8M050155; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:11:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKBU8M050098 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:11:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu (vcs077.vet.cornell.edu [128.253.111.77]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i4IKBSEp029809 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:11:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040518160827.00bbf4f8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:11:32 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Guilty.... oh I would be so totally guilty. lol. Bridgette >What you would get, I think, with a group of 17th or 18th century reenactors >put in this show, is a lot of commentary like "I can't believe they gave us >these bodices, they're so inaccurate for the period" and "okay, the >cameras are >just totally ruining the mood here ... can you guys please film from outside >the house?" > >-Tiffany Knitting content - just for the heck of it... I'm having a discussion with one of my fiber geek friends - and I was wondering can anyone on this list give me their impressions of working with reeled v. spun silk yarn. Any opinions on what might be more appropriate pre-1600? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 16:15:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IKF7RM024105 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:15:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKDINX006458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 14:13:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKDG8M051528; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:13:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKDD8M051418 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:13:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.53.c1ff649 (3874) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:13:02 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <53.c1ff649.2ddbc84e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:13:02 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Murder on the Orient Express To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5027 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/18/2004 3:40:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: I have not seen Murder on the Orient Express, are the costumes good? Is this the one made almost 30 years ago? If so, I remember the costumes as being very attractive, but I was not a critical observer then, so I have no idea how historically accurate they are. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 16:18:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IKINRM024122 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:18:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKGPNX006844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 14:16:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKGL8M053854; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:16:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKFE8M052912 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:15:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 1050940 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:15:08 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:15:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <036301c43d0f$cbd6c3f0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 5/18/04 12:39 PM, "E House" wrote: > I seem to be about the only one, but I actually think that PBS has taken the > right tack by casting people who are overall, pretty ignorant about the > daily life in whichever historical era they choose for one of these. The > idea behind this series is to highlight the differences between 1628 and > 2004, and that just plain works better when you have people who are > completely unaccustomed to 1628. They're more able to point out what's > strange to them than someone who's gotten used to the strangeness, and their > reactions are more understandable to a 2004 audience. These series were just > never meant to be a documentary of an accurate reenactment; they have a > different goal entirely, and part of that goal is to entertain. The series > still winds up being educational, but in a different way--you learn from > watching people mess up, rather than watching them do it all just right. > As much as I want to disagree with your point of view, I think you're right -- to a point. I think, however, that they go too far sometimes. I didn't see this one yet because I had a class last night, and will again tonight. I admit that I haven't watched most of them because I always get mad at the planners who don't give the participants enough information and I leave the room in frustration. I did watch the British 1900 house where the people didn't get a hot bath for what, a week or two? because they weren't taught how to work the stove. And the producers gave them a middle-class house without giving them the servant that any house that size would have had. No wonder the mother was on the verge of murder! that's not good tv; that's setting them up to fail and possibly putting them into an unsafe environment. > That said, I think it's possible to go in a different direction and still > keep a lot of that. I think that whole Colonial House meets Survivor thing > would be great, although I wouldn't make it tyros vs reenactors. I'd give > each side a nice even mix of experience levels, and maybe use it to battle > out conflicting theories--whose interpretation works best? Even a simple > competition of which theoretically equal group becomes wealthier in 1628 > terms--better harvest, more prepared for winter like on Fronteir house, > etc--would be more interesting to me than just the question of whether they > can survive, period. But with a mix of experience levels, you'd still have > the sheer amusement value of the current series. > > -E Yes, yes yes! It would be wonderful to see an older reenactor couple in the house down the way who could be the older, wiser generation that the others could go to for help when it became necessary. Families historically have had an older generation to learn from; grandpa or even great-grandpa would be able to show one how to work on the tractor or fix the broken mangle washer or how to make certain that bread WILL rise, even if the yeast is old. I think that would still be entertaining and educational television, without putting the people or their relationships in jeopardy. LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 16:21:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IKL0RM024146 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:21:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKK9NX007358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 14:20:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKK68M057117; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:20:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKK18N056992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:20:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip093078.uvm.edu [132.198.93.78]) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKJr91022777 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:19:54 -0400 Message-ID: <40AA6FE8.7010205@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:19:52 -0400 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives References: <6.0.0.14.0.20040518002916.02731ce0@pop.ntlworld.com> <6.0.0.14.0.20040518002916.02731ce0@pop.ntlworld.com> <6.0.0.14.0.20040518185050.02623178@pop.ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.14.0.20040518185050.02623178@pop.ntlworld.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lynne Connolly wrote: > Interesting! However, you did refer to the drawing as being a study for > the "Whitechapel" fresco! I'm sure it was a slip of the keyboard! Thanks for catching that--fixed now. > My thesis was on the secularisation of iconography, and the Holbein > fresco formed a major part of the study, so I was particularly > interested in your study of the jewellery on the figure of Jane Seymour. > Holbein was a jewellery designer (some studies survive) so he might have > designed more than the painting! Yes, Buck refers to Rowland on this--I didn't include the quote the first time but have added it now. She also mentions that Holbein, though appreciated by Erasmus, was not as highly regarded as Durer, being more interested in "simply" creating the art rather than in theorizing about the fundamental questions of art. Like others, she also comments on Holbein's ability to portry both seemingly total naturalistic realism and "a concealed and witty commentary on the sitters themselves...This quality made him the ideal portraitist of both the humanists and the court." Your thesis sounds interesting. Elizabeth I certainly perfected the art. Did you draw any conclusions about, I suppose you could call it the traingulation, between humanism, nationalism, and secular iconography? (Oh I suppose this is wandering from the topic of clothing specifically, still, as has been pointed out in the thread on the TV program Colonial House, how and why we dress as we do is so completely grounded in our cultural expecatations and beliefs. Those women wearing corsets as outer garments certainly wouldn't have done so then or even 40 years ago!) - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 16:37:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IKbvRM024278 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:37:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKbBNX009312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 14:37:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKbA8M071512; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:37:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKb78M071390 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:37:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1ed.20e62986 (3988) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:36:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1ed.20e62986.2ddbcde6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:36:54 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/18/04 3:17:13 PM Central Daylight Time, LDownward@chori.org writes: It would be wonderful to see an older reenactor couple in the house down the way who could be the older, wiser generation that the others could go to for help when it became necessary. I definitely agree with this, but I have to wonder - did it not occur to these people before the time came to depart for this ordeal, that it might be wise to bone up a bit on 17th century life? This always baffles me with "Survivor" too - it's not like they don't know they've applied or been accepted. Seems to me the bright thing to do, if you're going on Survivor, is to start weaning yourself off of caffiene/coffee/whatever your thing is, get in shape as much as you can, and learn some survival tactics. By the same token, if I knew I was going to live in a 17th century village for a significant period of time, I believe I'd head to the local library and find out whatever I possibly could that would make my life easier. Maybe they just didn't think it would be that tough - and if that's the case, then I say, let them eat unrisen yeast!!! ::great big evil smile:: -Tiffany Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 16:49:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IKnoRM024323 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:49:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKkMP3010305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 14:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKXW8M068442; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:33:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKXT8N068385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:33:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip093078.uvm.edu [132.198.93.78]) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IKXP91026721 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:33:26 -0400 Message-ID: <40AA7314.5030205@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:33:24 -0400 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > Oh yes! I can't imagine why I haven't seen *any* of them in a screen > version. I wonder if there's some issue with the estate? Many worse books > have been brought to screen. Yes, but apparently the one I know of was pretty bad. It was a 1951 version of "The Reluctant Widow." I have yet to see it, but from what I've heard, the drama was bad, the costumes worse, and the mangling of Ms. Heyer's plot quite the worst of all (see imdb.com)!! (But if it ever makes it to DVD and NetFlix gets it you can be sure I'll check it out!) - Hope (bitten by the Heyer bug at the age of 11) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 17:11:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ILB1RM024446 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:11:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IL8sNX013221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 15:08:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IL8l8M099088; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:08:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta12-svc.ntlworld.com (mta12-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IL8i8M098971 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:08:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com) Received: from acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com ([81.109.62.241]) by mta12-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040518210837.VOES8093.mta12-svc.ntlworld.com@acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com> for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:08:37 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20040518214841.025f70f0@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 22:08:32 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives In-Reply-To: <40AA6FE8.7010205@uvm.edu> References: <6.0.0.14.0.20040518185050.02623178@pop.ntlworld.com> <6.0.0.14.0.20040518002916.02731ce0@pop.ntlworld.com> <6.0.0.14.0.20040518002916.02731ce0@pop.ntlworld.com> <6.0.0.14.0.20040518185050.02623178@pop.ntlworld.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-432E62DD; boundary="=======34134933=======" X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1156; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======34134933======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-432E62DD; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 21:19 18/05/2004 Hope Greenberg said > Like others, she also comments on Holbein's ability to portry both > seemingly total naturalistic realism and "a concealed and witty > commentary on the sitters themselves...This quality made him the ideal > portraitist of both the humanists and the court." Interesting that the drawings are wonderfully naturalistic, but the resulting paintings show a far more formal aspect. The paintings are for public consumption, and the drawings seem to have been working drawings for Holbein and his pupils. Compare the drawings of the Guildfords with the paintings. The paintings are more generalised, far more iconographic. >Your thesis sounds interesting. Elizabeth I certainly perfected the art. >Did you draw any conclusions about, I suppose you could call it the >traingulation, between humanism, nationalism, and secular iconography? I concentrated on the transition from religious iconography to secular, following the suppression of the monasteries and the painting over of many religious works. The people needed something to take the place of the Holy Trinity, and in the Whitehall fresco they got it. I wanted to discover where Holbein had got his idea, and I believe he was in cahoots with Cromwell, another clever propagandist. So when Holbein had finished with them we had Henry VIII, Jane Seymour and Prince Edward. It explains a great deal of the way they were presented to the public, in written and pictorial texts. Interesting as well that this era saw the development of nationalism. Before this society, at least in its structure, was largely feudal, with a person owing loyalty to the person above him, not a country or a place. Tudor England saw the beginning of a great shift, where feudalism was finally abandoned, except in small enclaves like apprenticeships and guilds, in favour of early capitalism. I still haven't settled on where humanism fits in all this. Thomas More is a confusing factor, combining a new outlook on adherence to old religious practices. Bigot or martyr? >Those women wearing corsets as outer garments certainly wouldn't have done >so then or even 40 years ago! Absolutely. My mother was appalled when she first saw me in a boned top which aped corsetry (remember Madonna?) and I used to buy old corsets from fleamarkets to clean and spruce up. Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT The latest Richard and Rose adventure, HARLEY STREET, is here! http://www.novelbooksinc.com/>Novelbooks Inc. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ --=======34134933======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======34134933=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 17:14:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ILEdRM024493 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:14:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILCSNX013671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 15:12:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILCR8M002311; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:12:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILCK8N002242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:12:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4ILPtrp016638 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:25:57 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040518141200.0241b4c8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:12:14 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [SPAM] [h-cost] Re: Re: Colonial House series In-Reply-To: <20040518200621.5581.qmail@web80504.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200405181939.i4IJdT8N024106@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I >don't know that I would want to be around the same >reenactors when they are having to put up with nitwits >who are recuited primarily for their entertainment >value as they mess things up for everybody. Things >could get ugly. Very ugly. > >Dawn > >===== >Dawn Jacobson >Vallejo, CA, USA > >Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 17:22:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ILM1RM024518 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:22:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILLANX014710 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 15:21:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILL18M009696; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:21:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILKv8N009623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:20:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4ILYYrp018965 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:34:35 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040518141451.023ae658@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:20:53 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series In-Reply-To: <1ed.20e62986.2ddbcde6@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And if they did as you suggest, I bet they would find themselves off the series and replaced by somebody who hadn't because management would have decided that such research lowered the entertainment value, which would lower the audience size, which is how they are judged when it comes to promotions, etc. As always, my opinion, which obviously isn't very high when it comes to these pseudo-sorta-bastardized "historical education shows". Same thing with Survivor-type shows - If you aren't more outrageous than the other hopefuls, you don't get selected. Katie >I definitely agree with this, but I have to wonder - did it not occur to >these people before the time came to depart for this ordeal, that it might >be wise >to bone up a bit on 17th century life? This always baffles me with >"Survivor" too - it's not like they don't know they've applied or been >accepted. Seems >to me the bright thing to do, if you're going on Survivor, is to start >weaning yourself off of caffiene/coffee/whatever your thing is, get in >shape as much >as you can, and learn some survival tactics. By the same token, if I knew I >was going to live in a 17th century village for a significant period of time, >I believe I'd head to the local library and find out whatever I possibly >could >that would make my life easier. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 17:29:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ILTHRM024533 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:29:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILRQNX015421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 15:27:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILRM8M014696; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:27:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail8.plugit.com [66.210.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILRI8M014580 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:27:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AF7082960080; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:26:08 -0500 Received: from MOM [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AF29C600C0; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:24:57 -0500 Message-ID: <005901c43d1e$ad521f10$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40AA7314.5030205@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:25:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Sewing and multi-tasking X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been doing hand sewing while doing a number of things since childhood. I did the majority of my stitching when my kids were little. They would play in whatever room I was in. They were excited with every little accomplishment with my project. Nice feeling! TVs in our house are on all the time. We even situated the TV in my office to where I can look over the computer monitor and watch TV. Now I do a lot of repetitive machine sewing on quilts. I watch TV while doing it. Also found that I can bring hand sewing into the kitchen. During the wait times with cooking, I will sew and watch TV. I have always been one of those people who does 10 things at one time. I also carry sewing projects with me when I know that I will be waiting, like doctor's offices. At least I am not as bad as *some* people I know, who travel with their sewing machine... not mentioning any names. LOL!!! I have even been crocheting behind the computer and watching TV. I was following an online pattern. Idle hands are the devil's workshop! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 17:32:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ILWsRM024546 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:32:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILWHNX015941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 15:32:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILWE8M018607; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:32:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILWC8M018529 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:32:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.63.2c365543 (16335) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:32:03 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <63.2c365543.2ddbdad3@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:32:03 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Murder on the Orient Express To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/18/2004 3:40:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: > Amazon.com sells it on both tape and DVD. Really??? I admit I haven't looked for it in a while. It never used to be listed anywhere. Yes, the costumes....and art direction are great! It's a superb film. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 17:35:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ILZwRM024559 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:35:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILXvNX016171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 15:33:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILXt8M020110; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:33:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f15.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILXZ8M019729 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:33:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:31:49 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 May 2004 21:31:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:31:48 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 May 2004 21:31:49.0003 (UTC) FILETIME=[86EAC5B0:01C43D1F] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "E House" >I seem to be about the only one, but I actually think that PBS has taken >the >right tack by casting people who are overall, pretty ignorant about the >daily life in whichever historical era they choose for one of these... Ih, you aren't alone :) There have been a few of us who have been pointing this out since the first series. But I do think you are right -- In order to educate moderns in what was done then, it is sometimes necessary to put them into that situation, as a fish out of water. I missed frontier house, and from the sounds of everything I'm not too upset by it, but I've really had a good time with all the rest of them. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 17:41:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ILfxRM024578 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:41:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILdiNX016765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 15:39:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILdf8M024833; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:39:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out006.verizon.net (out006pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILdc8M024798 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:39:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([162.83.121.181]) by out006.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040518213937.FFYY3317.out006.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:39:37 -0500 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:39:34 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [162.83.121.181] at Tue, 18 May 2004 16:39:35 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually the Canadian "quest" series does use a knowledgeable cast I believe are by far the more interesting shows. Would the rest of America agree I don't know. I know the makers of the American ones would not agree. A friend of mine was the domestic advisor for Frontier House. She told me that the whiny, complaining kids of that series were actually very nice kids. She reminded me that they were on the Frontier for a number of months and that the show was only about six hours long. With that in mind these shows teach far more about what the Producers, Directors, and Editors find important than what really happened. Cheers, Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 3:05 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series > > > In a message dated 5/18/04 2:38:48 PM Central Daylight Time, > formfunc@formfunction.org writes: > They're more able to point out what's > strange to them than someone who's gotten used to the > strangeness, and their > reactions are more understandable to a 2004 audience. > > I think this is a really good point. If they took a group of historical > reenactors and stuck them in the period that the reenactor has > been wanting or > pretending to live in for years, then what they would get is the basic > entertainment equivalent of sticking a duck in a pond. What's > interesting is when you > take a duck and put it in the desert, and see what it does > (metaphorically > speaking, of course ... no ducks were harmed in the making of this post). > > What you would get, I think, with a group of 17th or 18th century > reenactors > put in this show, is a lot of commentary like "I can't believe > they gave us > these bodices, they're so inaccurate for the period" and "okay, > the cameras are > just totally ruining the mood here ... can you guys please film > from outside > the house?" > > -Tiffany > Reflections*of*Worth > http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 17:47:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ILlSRM024594 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:47:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILjTNX017297 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 15:45:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILjQ8M029465; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:45:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILjN8M029431 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:45:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E00D29206 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:45:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p614.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.213.107]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E27CAC50B for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:45:19 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Chemise construction Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:45:31 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20040517182953.91885.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmm, I guess I need to look at these Tiziano paintings. Most Italian Renaissance chemises or camicia (sp?) I have seen seems to be gathered or smocked (fixed), not draw-stringed. De -----Original Message----- if you tell us which period, we can probably point you in the right direction. Several of Tiziano's paintings show women in drawstring neck chemises, but that is the 16th century in Italy. Catalina _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 17:48:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ILmiRM024602 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:48:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILkkNX017472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 15:46:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILkj8M030456; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:46:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out011.verizon.net (out011pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILkc8M030341 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:46:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([162.83.121.181]) by out011.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040518214637.SVEL18566.out011.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:46:37 -0500 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:46:35 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out011.verizon.net from [162.83.121.181] at Tue, 18 May 2004 16:46:37 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Some of the costumers at my museum were involved in this project as well. My understanding is that this was in research not manufacturing. The clothing was made by the Tudor Group in England, or at least this had been the plan last I heard last year. My friends were trying to increase the number of garment so issued each participant (using the recommendations for the original Jamestown settlers as a guide). Tudor Group balked at making this number so there was a possibility last year that I would make some clothing for the show! I was excited about it, but it all fell through. > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Dawn Jacobson > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 1:21 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series > > > I'm prefacing this with a caveat: I haven't seen the > series yet as I had class last night, so my DH taped > it for me. However, the series was the topic of a > quick discussion on another list with a person that > works at Plimoth Plantation (it came up as part of a > discussion on clome ovens, way off-topic for this > list). > > Anyway, she mentioned that Plimoth Plantation, while > heavily involved in creating the series, did NOT > supply the wardrobe for the "colonists"; they supplied > the wardrobe for a later development (I'm trying not > to give too much of the plot away), along with > furniture for the houses, some food stuffs (salt pork > and the such), and several weeks of training so people > wouldn't set themselves on fire trying to cook or cut > their limbs off using an unfamiliar tool. > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 17:50:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ILo6RM024616 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:50:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILnNNX017836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 15:49:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILnM8M032601; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:49:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILnI8M032550 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:49:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA15685 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:49:17 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:49:17 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040518160827.00bbf4f8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not a reenactor by any road, but yes, it would be fun(although I'd probably make some basic items--shifts, pair of bodies and a skirt,etc in natural fabrics if I knew I was going to be on this kind of project)to bitch on the inaccuracy of the supposed accuracy of the project materials provided. And those poor participants were allowed to get sick--they didn't have anyone trained in the medicine of the day, especially herbal medicine. On Frontier House, there was at least a vet and doctor available. I think the idea of having some trained older reenactors as participants to go to would be very helpful, act as a contrast in knowledge of the times, and eliminate the sometimes annoying voice-over! I just loved what they did for punishing in this PC era as an equivalent of 17th c punishments on the show, at worst--it was like putting little kids in timeout. Plus the offenders got a one to two hour break from work as the worst punishment being ankle-hobbled to a stake. I would have at least wanted to take some sewing or mending to do if weather allowed. If they had at least a set of stocks(the sitting version) or a little platform where one had to sit or stand out in plain sight might have been more of a deterrent. And most persons looked forward to the Sabbath as a break from all but essential work. The time between the two usual services was not only taken up by the midday meal, but allowed socializing and community interaction. The modern participants seemingly didn't see it that way, some seeing it as imposing on their "me" time. And Sabbath-breaking was also done by those desparate to get needed work done, especially if it involved crops, their animals, or home repair. Cindy Abel And I think the audience would still enjoy and learn from it. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of M Stewart Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 3:12 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Guilty.... oh I would be so totally guilty. lol. Bridgette >What you would get, I think, with a group of 17th or 18th century reenactors >put in this show, is a lot of commentary like "I can't believe they gave us >these bodices, they're so inaccurate for the period" and "okay, the >cameras are >just totally ruining the mood here ... can you guys please film from outside >the house?" > >-Tiffany Knitting content - just for the heck of it... I'm having a discussion with one of my fiber geek friends - and I was wondering can anyone on this list give me their impressions of working with reeled v. spun silk yarn. Any opinions on what might be more appropriate pre-1600? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 17:52:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ILqpRM024667 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:52:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILojNX017988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 15:50:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILoi8M033597; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:50:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out014.verizon.net (out014pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ILna8M032762 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:49:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([162.83.121.181]) by out014.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040518214936.DPNJ5247.out014.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:49:36 -0500 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Colonial House series Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:49:33 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040518110911.02384bf8@mail.katiesorchids.com> Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out014.verizon.net from [162.83.121.181] at Tue, 18 May 2004 16:49:35 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is exactly the case. They even mentioned it on the application for Frontier House, though I noticed it was missing from Colonial House. Cheers, Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Katie Pleasance > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 1:17 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Colonial House series > > > My own opinion of the plethora of 'House' series is that it > panders to the > penchant of people who enjoy gawking at people getting frustrated while > trying to live an alien lifestyle. I'll betcha that an historian who was > expert in the period would be passed over in favor of somebody that would > titillate the audience with her behavior while trying to cope in this > foreign environment. The motivation for authenticity is that the more > authentic the environment is, the more difficult it will be for modern > people to cope. > > As always, my opinion > > Katie > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 18:04:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IM4eRM024777 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 18:04:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IM2qNX019153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 16:02:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IM2m8M042956; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:02:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IM2l8M042867 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:02:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (c-24-7-132-137.client.comcast.net[24.7.132.137]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2004051822024101200ka7jhe>; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:02:41 +0000 Message-ID: <40AA880C.2080706@fenris.net> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:02:52 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House series References: <001101c43cf6$b08bf480$685183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <001101c43cf6$b08bf480$685183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lloyd Mitchell wrote: >Put with the modern slang that the characters use >on a regular basis, there is a falsity that they certainly didn't get from >Plimouth! I had a lot of problems with the 'script' as usual, and this >certainly spoiled the visual 'study' of 17th C life for me. >Kathleen > > you might turn off the sound.... liz young, coming out of finals lurk-dom _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 18:30:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IMUcRM024898 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 18:30:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IMSfNX021925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 16:28:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IMSZ8M062639; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:28:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IMSX8M062611 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:28:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0349.dialsprint.net ([63.186.145.95]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BQD4Z-0004gq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 18 May 2004 18:28:32 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 18:29:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Sewing and multi-tasking From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <005901c43d1e$ad521f10$0200a8c0@MOM> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 5/18/04 5:25 PM, Penny Ladnier at penny@costumegallery.com wrote: I watch TV while doing it. Also found that I can bring > hand sewing into the kitchen. During the wait times with cooking, I will > sew and watch TV. I have always been one of those people who does 10 things > at one time. > You bring back a lovely memory. My great-great grandmother did gorgeous pieces of crochet--tablecloths, pictures, doilies, lace inserts and collars for blouses; my grandmother says every piece had to be washed and bleached when finished because my g-g would crochet while doing chores and especially while cooking, and by the time she finished a piece it would be filthy and greasy.... Multitasking is not new! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 18:32:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IMWlRM024935 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 18:32:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IMWENX022264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 16:32:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IMWE8M065460; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:32:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IMWC8M065436 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:32:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lcipm.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.75.54] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BQD87-0000s3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 18 May 2004 18:32:12 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200405182129.i4ILTp8O016757@net.indra.com> References: <200405182129.i4ILTp8O016757@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 18:32:04 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Knitting & Reeled silk vs spun bits X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 3:29 PM -0600 5/18/04, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >nitting content - just for the heck of it... I'm having a discussion with >one of my fiber geek friends - and I was wondering can anyone on this list >give me their impressions of working with reeled v. spun silk yarn. Any >opinions on what might be more appropriate pre-1600? I *think* that reeled would be much more appropriate (carefully not sayin never...) It would not pill and would be ever so loverly...AFAIK the spun/lumpy-compared-to-reeled silk was much less desirable. That being said anyone have a handy guide to de-gumming and reeling said silk? Ta Carol, Silk is 'period' for late 18th cent SE PA-- Sarah Wright raised enough of the little buggers to make a dress--woven in Spittalfields, reeled I *think* at home There are rewards for moving up the time stream! WaHooo! -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 19:13:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IND6RM025225 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:13:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INCPNX026126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 17:12:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INCL8M094262; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:12:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INCH8N094209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:12:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-115-44.sonic.net [209.148.115.44]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4INCDZq030735 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:12:15 -0700 Message-ID: <40AA995F.7010207@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:16:47 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Murder on the Orient Express References: <63.2c365543.2ddbdad3@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <63.2c365543.2ddbdad3@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes . . . maybe I'll get it. I recently decided to start a video collection--which I never had before. Over the past month I've been buying every drama/costume video that seems good to me. Most are films of books I've loved. Most are color and made since the mid-70s. Anyway, I could now write a whole essay on how to find and buy videos. Suffice it to say, buy from someone like A1 books.com or Amazon proper. Or an Amazon Marketplace or Half.com seller who is professional, someone with hundreds or thousands of [good] feedbacks. Don't buy from low-volume or small-time sellers. Some are just great, people who did buy a video, watch it once, and want to sell it cheap. But some are selling worn-out rentals, some are selling low-quality (and probably illegal) copies they either made or bought on some black market, and some are selling videos they may only have viewed once but which were stored under poor conditions for 30 years. (And with one video I bought I'm not exaggerating about the 30 years.) Some people happily list all of these as "new." Look for listings that say it is new AND in the manufacturer's box ("clamshell packaging" is usually an ex-rental) AND with the manufacturer's shrink wrap (shrink wrapping used videos is unfortunately common; you probably can't tell the difference but it is at least an assurance of quality) AND has super feedback about dealing with defective items. It's worth paying a few dollars more per video for these guarantees. And if you need to return one, insure the package. If the price for an older video is outrageous, try another source. What some people do (with music CDs and books as well as videos) is list a very high price, calling the item a collectible, without having the item in stock but knowing where they can buy it much cheaper. Then if anyone orders at the high price, they go buy it to fill the order. Actually most of the sellers I've dealt with are fine. It's just that like everything the few bad ones can cause a lot of hassle. At least I'm now about done buying the videos I knew I wanted. Please, someone let me know when the video of "He Knew He Was Right" comes out. Fran AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >Really??? > >I admit I haven't looked for it in a while. It never used to be listed >anywhere. > >Yes, the costumes....and art direction are great! It's a superb film. >_______________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 19:16:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4INGHRM025298 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:16:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INFcNX026586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 17:15:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INFb8M096735; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:15:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INFZ8M096684 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:15:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.118] (pm7-118.eos.net [205.133.149.118]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4INFUvD023768 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:15:30 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:14:27 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200405181939.i4IJdT8N024106@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: colonial house X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't seen the show -- it started here last night but I didn't know about it until this morning. But . . . I read a very interesting article in "People" magazine at the barber shop while my son was getting his haircut yesterday. It was called something like "Reality TV: How Real is it?" The gist was that a lot of the stuff on reality shows is either staged or edited. They used a lot of examples, but since I don't watch the shows I can't comment on whether the charges sounded plausible or not. One I remember was that on "The Bachelor" (I think it was that one) there was a keg of beer and a bottle of wine available at all times, and that the contestants were encouraged to drink a lot. No one wanted them drunk -- just less inhibited. Another was that the woman on "The Bachelorette" said she smiled at all the contestants when she met them, but that the editors spliced in shots of her grimacing (at different times in the evening) after she met each one. I think the same is true for these PBS shows. The reactions are real, but the situations aren't always as they appear to be. Obligatory costume content: I love the woman's jacket on this picture: > http://www.pbs.org/wnet/colonialhouse/media/photos4.html (far right center picture) What do you call that? Does anyone have a pattern for it? It's not my period, but it's so pretty! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 19:21:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4INLERM025415 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:21:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INKZNX026978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 17:20:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INKX8M000215; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:20:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INKT8M000128 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:20:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1ad.23d82280 (4539) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:20:19 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1ad.23d82280.2ddbf433@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:20:19 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Murder on the Orient Express To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When buying DVDs [which "Orient Express" apparently is NOT on yet] I always go to DVD Price Search first. I haven't seen "Orient Express" in a long while [the late 80s maybe] but I seem to remember a scene with Michael York and whoever plays his beautiful wife, dressed to the nines all in white strolling thru the grey smoky Istanbul station.....Turkish vendors everywhere. A cart of oranges is upset and the bright orange fruit spills in front of them. They stroll thru the oranges as if nothing has happened. Beautiful! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 19:24:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4INOKRM025441 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:24:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INNiNX027223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 17:23:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INNg8M002240; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:23:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail7.mdx.safepages.com (mail7.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INNb8M002165 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:23:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E4FCE5867 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 23:23:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail7.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail7.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 84022-01 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 23:23:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 11373E586E; Tue, 18 May 2004 23:23:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust150.tnt4.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.207.150]) by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id EF5C3E5867 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 23:23:27 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <038401c43d2f$579dc090$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 18:25:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For those that have seen Frontier House but not yet seen Colonial House--I'm seeing a pretty major difference so far. If nothing else, most of the participants are far less annoying. (Although there's one who would have fit in just perfectly in FH...) And it's noteworthy that one of the participants has done serious research into a specific facet (religion) of that era: the 'lay preacher.' One thing, though, struck me in Frontier House and has struck me again in this: yeah, the participants haven't got the training they should have--but a lot of people on the frontier and a lot of early colonists didn't, either. -E (Marc: Actually, I think we might have agreed on this last time around, with Frontier House. I remember there was SOMEONE else who felt that way, then.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 19:26:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4INQZRM025491 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:26:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INPsNX027426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 17:25:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INPr8M003781; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:25:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INPS8M003436 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:25:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.139.2f3131ff (4539) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:25:19 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <139.2f3131ff.2ddbf55f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:25:19 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Murder on the Orient Express To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/18/2004 7:20:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > DVD Price Search > That's a dot com DVDPriceSearch.com will get you there. They have a listing of e-coupons for various sites on their homepage as well as other specials. Check 'em out. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 19:38:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4INclRM025708 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:38:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INawNX028292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 17:36:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INas8M011004; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:36:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INap8N010979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:36:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-155.sonic.net [209.148.112.155]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4INanLJ004193 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:36:50 -0700 Message-ID: <40AA9F23.3020505@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:41:23 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Murder on the Orient Express References: <1ad.23d82280.2ddbf433@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1ad.23d82280.2ddbf433@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A great older film I recently discovered is the 1974 "Daisy Miller." The costumes are not perfect but good for the period when it was made, the settings are great, and the acting is just superb. And it's true to the book. Fran >I haven't seen "Orient Express" in a long while [the late 80s maybe] but I >seem to remember a scene with Michael York and whoever plays his beautiful wife, >dressed to the nines all in white strolling thru the grey smoky Istanbul >station.....Turkish vendors everywhere. A cart of oranges is upset and the bright >orange fruit spills in front of them. They stroll thru the oranges as if >nothing has happened. Beautiful! > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 19:42:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4INgDRM025748 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:42:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INdtNX028599 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 17:39:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INds8M013076; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:39:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4INdn8M012986 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 17:39:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B5CE4264A for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 18:59:05 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40AAA289.5030707@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 18:55:53 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: colonial house References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail & Scott Finke wrote: >>http://www.pbs.org/wnet/colonialhouse/media/photos4.html > > > (far right center picture) > > What do you call that? Does anyone have a pattern for it? It's not my > period, but it's so pretty! > The blue wool jacket? It's the transitional style between the more familiar woman's elizabethan doublet and the later 'colonial' styles. I made a fair copy of one this past winter from the Folkwear Bolivian Milkmaid Jacket pattern. Made the front neck a little higher and straightened out the sleeves. I did mine in red wool with linen lining and it was wonderful for a winter event I went to. If you look carefully you can see it in the early Flemish genre paintings -- same decades as the American colonizations began. You can see pictures of similar garments on the "TudorGroup" website, too, but I haven't been able to get anyone from there to answer my questions about its construction (thus the Folkwear modification). Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 21:41:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4J1fTRM028375 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 21:41:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J1apNX007102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 19:36:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J1aQ8M081085; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:36:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out012.verizon.net (out012pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J1aO8M081052 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:36:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([151.199.154.117]) by out012.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040519013623.ZFLX18295.out012.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 20:36:23 -0500 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:36:19 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <038401c43d2f$579dc090$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out012.verizon.net from [151.199.154.117] at Tue, 18 May 2004 20:36:21 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That is true, but much of the skill described in these shows would be just as common back in civilization as well. Cheers, Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of E House > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:25 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series > > > For those that have seen Frontier House but not yet seen Colonial > House--I'm > seeing a pretty major difference so far. If nothing else, most of the > participants are far less annoying. (Although there's one who > would have fit > in just perfectly in FH...) And it's noteworthy that one of the > participants has done serious research into a specific facet (religion) of > that era: the 'lay preacher.' > > One thing, though, struck me in Frontier House and has struck me again in > this: yeah, the participants haven't got the training they should > have--but > a lot of people on the frontier and a lot of early colonists > didn't, either. > > -E > (Marc: Actually, I think we might have agreed on this last time > around, with > Frontier House. I remember there was SOMEONE else who felt that > way, then.) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 18 22:59:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4J2xhRM028692 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:59:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J2vjNX012621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 20:57:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J2vg8M024734; Tue, 18 May 2004 20:57:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80512.mail.yahoo.com (web80512.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4J2ve8M024671 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 20:57:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040519025734.84766.qmail@web80512.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.205.184.113] by web80512.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 18 May 2004 19:57:34 PDT Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:57:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405182325.i4INPG8N003360@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; bulk Body=1 Fuz1=61 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series & reeled v. spun silk X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail Fink noted that much of what is "reality" TV is staged or edited to make it more interesting to the viewer. This is also the case with the series that have been produced by Beth Hoppe (producer of both Frontier House and Colonial House). In an interview after Frontier House finished, the young woman who was married during the series said that one of the frustrating things was that the camera crews and directors were constantly pushing to get "dramatic" footage: "We have enough of you being OK; we need more whining." This was also mentioned by several members of the "obnoxious" family that set up the still, who turned out to be not nearly as horrible as they are depicted in the series. This seems to be a standard MO for this type of show: the producer of the "Survivor" series in a recent interview said that one of his goals was to create an arcing story-line out of what was happening; this was borne out by the ending of the most recent "Survivor" series: two people not generally liked by the American public won, so another $1 million prize was put up, with the American people allowed to pick their preferred winner. OCC: The basic process for reeling silk is to drop the coccoons into a pot of gently boiling water, then once they start to come apart, find the end and begin to unreel the little buggers. You have to unreel multiples of them at a time, as an individual strand is far too fine to do anything with. Reeled silk is much smoother and stronger than spun silk (spun silk is created from coccoons that have already lost their silk worms/moths). If you're interested in doing it for historical purposes, it would be wise to do the entire sericultural cycle, raising the worms, feeding them, and then harvesting the silk. This is how the majority of silk was (and is) created; you wouldn't have purchased the coccoons and reeled it yourself. A Google of "sericulture" will produce a number of sites, most in India, where manual silk reeling is still practiced as a cottage industry. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 00:13:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4J4DsRM029435 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 00:13:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4D6NX017545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 22:13:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4Cv8M064431; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:12:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4Cr8M064304 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:12:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200405190412.i4J4Cr8M064304@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 63-md50000000005.tmp for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 21:13:26 -0700 From: To: Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:09:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcQ9VyUlCxRHZcJnRJiq0a+2/ANhPA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Tue, 18 May 2004 21:13:26 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Besides couching by hand, or using the sewing machine to finish, what are some different ways to finish slashed material (the holes the chemise gets pulled through) for a Tudor doublet? What's the best way? I have heard of stitch witchery, but I wondered about other methods for different fabrics. For the current project, I am working with velvet, but sometimes work with brocades or silk. Becky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 00:20:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4J4KPRM029588 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 00:20:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4JkNX017912 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 22:19:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4Jk8M067698; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:19:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.compassnet.com.au [203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4Jf8N067593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:19:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendar@compassnet.com.au) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.147]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id i4J4LOUp029086 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:21:25 +1000 Message-ID: <024901c43d58$c8a528e0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200405190412.i4J4Cr8M064304@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:21:39 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You could bind with ribbon. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:09 PM Subject: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material > Besides couching by hand, or using the sewing machine to finish, what are > some different ways to finish slashed material (the holes the chemise gets > pulled through) for a Tudor doublet? What's the best way? I have heard of > stitch witchery, but I wondered about other methods for different fabrics. > For the current project, I am working with velvet, but sometimes work with > brocades or silk. > > > > Becky > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 00:22:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4J4MuRM029621 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 00:22:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4L5NX017965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 22:21:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4L38M068295; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:21:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4L08M068277 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:21:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a23.in-tch.com [66.62.107.3]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4J3v8e26481 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 21:57:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AAE18B.4090405@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 22:24:43 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House series References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oddly enough (or perhaps, not so oddly), that was my thought also (about the coifs), upon seeing the 3rd & 4th hours tonight (my PBS station is breaking them up into 2-hour slots; there'll be more next week). It was an interesting show tonight on a number of levels, but it certainly had me thinking, at the very least, about *why* it is I'm even interested in reenacting. Mundanely, I'm much more along the lines of the Voorhees family, and I can see modern-me rebelling (and I have, absolutely) against exactly those kinds of expectations (well, as they exist in a what is a fairly conservative, rural state in 21st c. US). But the part of me that would really dig an experience like that would have really wanted to try as much of it as possible, and if that meant modifying my speech and behavior in ways that didn't cross my personal moral lines (I won't even play-act bigotry, for instance), I think it'd be part of the whole experience. Sort of trying to fit myself as completely as possible into the person I might have been, if I'd lived then. Did it strike anyone else this way? --sue Cindy Abel wrote: > The first four hours of this series(continues through Wednesday)was on my > local PBS station last night. > > The first two things I noticed(costume-wise)was that the women's coifs(when > they chose to wear them)were either inadequate to cover their hair or were > worn that way and that the gromments on garments like the pair of > bodies(stays)were definately modern. Most of the cast appeared as though > they tried to wear to provided costumes like modern clothing--understandable > when working, but not on the Sabbath. Of course the women rebelled when > modesty "laws" were enforced, but frankly they didn't seem to get the > idea(the "cast" had two weeks of intensive training at Plimouth Plantation > before they traveled to the Colonial House site)that covering the hair could > be very practical--cover bad hair days, keep hair out of the way, and that > there was no time to fuss with hair. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 00:35:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4J4Z5RM029731 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 00:35:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4YTNX018587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 22:34:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4YR8M074460; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:34:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cipa.suffolk.lib.ny.us (cipa.suffolk.lib.ny.us [209.139.23.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4YP8M074341 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:34:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bchamber@suffolk.lib.ny.us) Received: from localhost (cipa.suffolk.lib.ny.us [127.0.0.1]) by cipa.suffolk.lib.ny.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBC2E654279 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 00:39:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cipa.suffolk.lib.ny.us ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (cipa.suffolk.lib.ny.us [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22817-07 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 00:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bchamber (nat-pri-48-ppp.suffolk.lib.ny.us [209.139.110.48]) by cipa.suffolk.lib.ny.us (Postfix) with SMTP id CCBBC6541BA for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 00:39:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008401c43d5a$02ec2d40$306e8bd1@bchamber> From: "Beth" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 00:30:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4925.2800 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Barring an Indian > attack or an outbreak of smallpox, about the only > "drama" the producer can work with is how miserable a > bunch of ill-prepared 21st century people are as they > try to deal with living in the early 17th century. Or > do I sound too cynical? I think you hit it right on the head. Preparing them as most of us would have prepared ourselves would make the series educational and it would have a fraction of the viewership it has. I expected the ladies to "loose" part of their clothing quickly, just not as quickly as they did. I really don't understand the producers and some of their decisions. There was a comment made about the "Indians", said out of clear ignorance, which should have been left on the cutting room floor. The New Englanders of 1628 would have been hunting. The cast members should have at least been given extra chickens so they could have an appropriate quantity of protein, the inaccuracy could have been explained away the same way the phones and bug repellent are - safety. To avoid slighting those they are supposed to be trying to understand the lay preacher should have at the very least have been given some guidelines on what the Puritans accepted and rejected. An alter and pine boughs had me throwing a fit and probably had my ancestors rolling in their graves. Some "low" churches with Congregationalist root still don't use alters. Beth Chamberlain _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 00:39:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4J4d1RM029756 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 00:39:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4bANX018731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 22:37:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4b38M075767; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:37:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4b28M075711 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:37:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB8074264A for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 23:56:18 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40AAE833.4090009@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 23:53:07 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House series References: <40AAE18B.4090405@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <40AAE18B.4090405@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: > But the part of me that would really dig an experience like that would > have really wanted to try as much of it as possible, and if that meant > modifying my speech and behavior in ways that didn't cross my personal > moral lines (I won't even play-act bigotry, for instance), I think it'd > be part of the whole experience. Sort of trying to fit myself as > completely as possible into the person I might have been, if I'd lived > then. > Did it strike anyone else this way? I think a lot of us on this list would have wanted to try and fit in and experience the whole lifestyle. However, after tonight's episodes it became obvious (I didn't see the first 2 parts) that participants were purposely chosen because they wouldn't fit in or because they would be likely to cause trouble, challenge authority and otherwise 'rock the boat' for dramatic purposes. Still, I enjoyed studying the costumes and household accessories they had, and I will watch the show to see more. The sprinkling of historical bits was interesting as well, I wish there was more, but then, this is TV. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 00:45:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4J4jpRM029861 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 00:45:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4hvNX019251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 22:43:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4hu8M079024; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:43:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4hp8M078994 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:43:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 791631D088 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 23:43:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p076.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.78]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 68522D40C for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 23:43:49 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 23:44:00 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20040517182953.91885.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tiziano was: Chemise construction X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I found this site http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/t/tiziano/1portrai/index.html Flora is questionable but I am more likely to lean towards set gathers and not draw-string. I also had a duh moment when I forgot that Tiziano Vecellio = Titian. Is there a specific painting that you believe has a draw-string chemise? Arian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 00:47:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4J4kxRM029865 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 00:47:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4kRNX019393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 22:46:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4kR8M080272; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:46:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from demon.comcen.com.au (demon.comcen.com.au [203.23.236.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4kK8N080154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:46:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from karinne@spin.net.au) Received: from demon.comcen.com.au (localhost.comcen.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by demon.comcen.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i4J4k9wu024601 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:46:09 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from karinne@spin.net.au) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by demon.comcen.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.3/Submit) id i4J4k8oa024598 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:46:08 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: demon.comcen.com.au: nobody set sender to karinne@spin.net.au using -f Received: from proxy.epa.nsw.gov.au (proxy.epa.nsw.gov.au [141.243.60.11]) by webmail.spin.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:46:08 +1000 Message-ID: <1084941968.40aae690d50cb@webmail.spin.net.au> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:46:08 +1000 From: karinne@spin.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material References: <200405190412.i4J4Cr8M064304@net.indra.com> <024901c43d58$c8a528e0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> In-Reply-To: <024901c43d58$c8a528e0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Originating-IP: 141.243.60.11 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Previously I've made some piping cord and then stitched that between the two layers of slashed fabric. Not sure how period this technique is. Karinne Quoting Glenda Robinson : > You could bind with ribbon. > > Glenda. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:09 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material > > > > Besides couching by hand, or using the sewing machine to finish, what are > > some different ways to finish slashed material (the holes the chemise gets > > pulled through) for a Tudor doublet? What's the best way? I have heard > of > > stitch witchery, but I wondered about other methods for different fabrics. > > For the current project, I am working with velvet, but sometimes work with > > brocades or silk. > > > > > > > > Becky > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 00:53:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4J4rORM029883 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 00:53:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4pZNX019665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 22:51:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4pY8M082581; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:51:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J4pW8M082556 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:51:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a23.in-tch.com [66.62.107.3]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4J4Ree08305 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:27:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AAE8B2.4070003@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 22:55:14 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree with that, as well. And if I were the producers, developers, I'd definitely be going with that sort of angle. I think that this sort of approach is the one most likely to hook the interest of folks without experience in reenacting, if only because it would be easier to imagine yourself in that situation if the "characters" are more like you. And why am I suddenly envisioning a show that takes reenactors from a given area of expertise, and plops them down in something else entirely? Vikings in 18th c. "high society" France or England, or "US Colonial" in Renaissance Italy, or perhaps two teams, switching respective areas! ;o) --sue Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/18/04 2:38:48 PM Central Daylight Time, > formfunc@formfunction.org writes: > They're more able to point out what's > strange to them than someone who's gotten used to the strangeness, and their > reactions are more understandable to a 2004 audience. > > I think this is a really good point. If they took a group of historical > reenactors and stuck them in the period that the reenactor has been wanting or > pretending to live in for years, then what they would get is the basic > entertainment equivalent of sticking a duck in a pond. What's interesting is when you > take a duck and put it in the desert, and see what it does (metaphorically > speaking, of course ... no ducks were harmed in the making of this post). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 01:04:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4J54VRM030001 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 01:04:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J52hNX020311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 23:02:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J52g8M087838; Tue, 18 May 2004 23:02:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J52b8M087788 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 23:02:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a23.in-tch.com [66.62.107.3]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4J4cje12874 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:38:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AAEB4C.3000204@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 23:06:20 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've seen some of the Canadian ones (the folks who spent a year? homesteading), and I really like them, not that I'm exactly a representative American or anything! And it wasn't the whiny *kids* on Frontier House that drove me nuts, it was the whiny *adults.* And the one girl (the newlywed?) who didn't even know how to cook (geeze, I woulda at least been cheating by going down to the local library or used bookstore, and looking for Foxfire books or something!) And the straggly hair (good grief, the first thing I do when I'm cleaning house or when I used to do field or barn work on my folks' farm was to braid my hair back, and put on a hat or scarf of some sort!) You're right, though, to remind us that there's a lot of editing going on with these things--I wonder what it's like to be a participant in one of these shows, and then see how it's portrayed to everyone else! --sue Ron Carnegie wrote: > Actually the Canadian "quest" series does use a knowledgeable cast I > believe are by far the more interesting shows. Would the rest of America > agree I don't know. I know the makers of the American ones would not agree. > A friend of mine was the domestic advisor for Frontier House. She told me > that the whiny, complaining kids of that series were actually very nice > kids. She reminded me that they were on the Frontier for a number of months > and that the show was only about six hours long. With that in mind these > shows teach far more about what the Producers, Directors, and Editors find > important than what really happened. > > Cheers, > Ron _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 01:06:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4J56VRM030011 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 01:06:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J560NX020500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 23:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J55x8M089470; Tue, 18 May 2004 23:05:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J55r8M089416 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 23:05:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id D49765CC511; Wed, 19 May 2004 01:05:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0105.floodcity.net [198.93.211.105]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E134F5CC535 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 01:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40AAEA64.5D751454@floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 01:02:28 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series References: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> <005801c43dcf$9a0af330$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO LOL, well, we have to remember that if it was done correctly the first time, these people would just look like actors to the viewer, not like people trying something they aren't used to. I'm no historian, nor even a reenactor, just a camper, and semi-self suficient person, but I bet even I would have been rejected, they seem to like the city people who've never seen anything that wasn't already semi prepared from the supermarket. Kitty Gia wrote: > > Nah, I think you hit the nail in the head... > > Emer \ Gia > > I'm curious to see this series, as my DH and I applied > > to participate, and were turned down, as were probably > > any other active historical reenactors--we simply make > > it look too easy , and where's the drama in that > > for the average American viewer? Barring an Indian > > attack or an outbreak of smallpox, about the only > > "drama" the producer can work with is how miserable a > > bunch of ill-prepared 21st century people are as they > > try to deal with living in the early 17th century. Or > > do I sound too cynical? > > > > Dawn > > > > ===== > > Dawn Jacobson > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 01:13:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4J5DGRM030077 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 01:13:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J5BTNX020746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 23:11:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J5BR8M092300; Tue, 18 May 2004 23:11:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J5BP8M092277 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 23:11:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a23.in-tch.com [66.62.107.3]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4J4lYe15962 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:47:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AAED5C.8030903@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 23:15:08 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: colonial house References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The bluey-purple one? It looks very much like a simple, wool version of the heavily embroidered jackets I've seen from roughly the same time period. A number of them have survived--there's on in the V&A, for instance. Same bit of a flair in the peplum, same little "wings" at the shoulder. I've always seriously jonesed for one, but they're pretty much all Jacobean (in other words, too late for the SCA, but spot-on for this show). There are diagrams for at least one of these in Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_, vol. 2. Dunno about actual patterns. --sue Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > Obligatory costume content: I love the woman's jacket on this picture: > > >>http://www.pbs.org/wnet/colonialhouse/media/photos4.html > > > (far right center picture) > > What do you call that? Does anyone have a pattern for it? It's not my > period, but it's so pretty! > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 01:31:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4J5VtRM030239 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 01:31:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J5TvNX021622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 23:29:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J5Tr8M002055; Tue, 18 May 2004 23:29:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J5To8M002002 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 23:29:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 513BD5CC5BD; Wed, 19 May 2004 01:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0105.floodcity.net [198.93.211.105]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B2135CC023 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 01:29:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40AAF055.94534EF3@floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 01:27:49 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [SPAM] [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series References: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> <200405181633.i4IGXr8N071189@net.indra.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20040518150114.00bb4c08@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO that would be a cool idea, you should send it in the PBS, maybe they would go for it. Kitty M Stewart wrote: > > I still want to see a series like this with two teams. One comprised of > the average Joe's and the other team all "avid recreational > historians" aka ringers. It would be interesting to see how the two > groups approached problems. > Bridgette > > >>we simply make > >>it look too easy , and where's the drama in that > >>for the average American viewer? Barring an Indian > >>attack or an outbreak of smallpox, about the only > >>"drama" the producer can work with is how miserable a > >>bunch of ill-prepared 21st century people are as they > >>try to deal with living in the early 17th century. Or > >>do I sound too cynical? > >>Dawn > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 01:57:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4J5vKRM030402 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 01:57:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J5tXNX022772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 May 2004 23:55:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J5tU8M015247; Tue, 18 May 2004 23:55:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f20.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.70]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J5tR8M015189 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 23:55:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:55:21 -0700 Received: from 129.244.96.4 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 19 May 2004 05:55:21 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.4] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 00:55:21 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 May 2004 05:55:21.0600 (UTC) FILETIME=[DF073800:01C43D65] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok, I have to say it - after watching this evening's episodes... The shoes should not be that hard to take care of - there's no excuse for then to fall apart like that in the four months they have them -- and if they are slippery, the person isn't walking in them correctly. There, I've bitched :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Best Restaurant Giveaway Ever! Vote for your favorites for a chance to win $1 million! http://local.msn.com/special/giveaway.asp _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 03:12:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4J7CBRM023911 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 03:12:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J7BSNX026638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 01:11:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J7BO8M057555; Wed, 19 May 2004 01:11:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J7BM8M057532 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 01:11:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-70-32.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.70.32]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4J7BDjZ005050 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 00:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040518235726.01cbf880@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 00:13:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material In-Reply-To: <200405190412.i4J4Cr8M064304@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Besides couching by hand, or using the sewing machine to finish, what are >some different ways to finish slashed material (the holes the chemise gets >pulled through) for a Tudor doublet? What's the best way? Cut them on the bias and don't finish them at all. The will frizz a little, but I had the chance to look at a Bronzino painting in the Metropolitan Museum, with slashed fabric, and under the guy's arm, where you could get a side vies of the slashed, they had frizzed! Don't finish the edges - Bronzino says so. Janet Arnold agrees, according to some of the illustrations in the Patterns of Fashion Ren. volume. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 03:52:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4J7qXRM024635 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 03:52:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J7oeNX028024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 01:50:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J7oY8M076522; Wed, 19 May 2004 01:50:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J7oS8M076448 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 01:50:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Rampant_Peacock@comcast.net) Received: from molly (c-67-170-26-145.client.comcast.net[67.170.26.145]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004051907502001100frchie>; Wed, 19 May 2004 07:50:21 +0000 From: "Molly Boone" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 00:48:12 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <40AA69F8.1030503@lavoltapress.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'll cast my vote from some other period dramas like Shakespeare in Love, Elizabeth, Dangerous Beauty. I've been know to throw just about anything into the player I have seen at least once to work too. I've tried with ones I haven't seen and it just doesn't work well. Molly -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lavolta Press Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 12:55 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) These two books were reprinted in one paperback volume by Virago Press and are still available, at least used. _The Semi-Detached House_ is much more Victorian. It is also anti-Semetic. I'm aware that my viewpoint is both modern and non-Jewish, but I found this aspect of it offensive. The most sympathetic Jewish character is a young woman called Rachel, who is cheated of her inheritance by her own uncle and aunt. She is intellectual and cynical, and I found her quite likeable, though to the original readership she might have seemed "unfeminine." I'm not especially into either mysteries or 1930s clothing, but for those who like both, _Gosford Park_ is a spendid and lavish period film. Fran Kate M Bunting wrote: > > >>>>fran@lavoltapress.com 5/18/04 6:08:17 PM >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>I wish someone (perhaps BBC) would film Emily's Eden's _The >>Semi-Attached Couple_, written I think in the 1830s. It's the closest >> >> > > > >>work to Jane Austen's I've ever read. >> >> > >I'd never heard of her, but according to the Cambridge Guide to English >Literature the novel was published 1860 but written 30 years earlier. >She also wrote "The Semi-detached House" . I'll have to look out for >them - they sound interesting. > > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 04:36:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4J8abRM025830 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 04:36:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J8ZtNX029824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 02:35:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J8Zn8M098583; Wed, 19 May 2004 02:35:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4J8Zj8M098536 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 02:35:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i4J8ZhT05415.; Wed, 19 May 2004 09:35:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 19 May 2004 09:35:43 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:35:36 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> LDownward@chori.org 18/05/2004 21:15:09 >>> wrote: > I did watch the British 1900 house where the people didn't get a hot >bath for what, a week or two? because they weren't taught how to >work the stove. To be fair, I seem to remember that that was partly because such a high safety factor had been built into the boiler (for fear of an explosion) that it wasn't effective enough, and adjustments had to be made to it after a few days. What annoyed me was the kitchenmaid in the "Edwardian Country House" who left on the first day, horrified at how hard she would have to work. It seemed a waste of everyone's time that the programme makers hadn't briefed her better on what to expect - but, as people have been saying, perhaps it was staged in order to make a dramatic scene. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 07:52:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JBqcRM026703 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 07:52:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JBpqNX008973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 05:51:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JBpZ8M090027; Wed, 19 May 2004 05:51:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JBpW8M089993 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 05:51:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AA404E0500A8; Wed, 19 May 2004 07:51:28 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.109]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 19 May 2004 07:51:26 -0400 Message-ID: <005401c43d98$7bbca360$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 07:57:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 May 2004 11:51:27.0473 (UTC) FILETIME=[9E14B610:01C43D97] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The point about the men is well taken. Early in the second segment, the 'leader' (Gov) presents the first rules, one of which dealt with nakedness of men and women. This included the absence of coif, bare arms, and bare chests of men in the presence of women. I too was bothered by the slovernless of the men in general. No pride of person. And, in all the 10 weeks time, no sign or sight of how they handled simple laundry. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn Jacobson" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 2:20 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series > I'm prefacing this with a caveat: I haven't seen the > series yet as I had class last night, so my DH taped > it for me. However, the series was the topic of a > quick discussion on another list with a person that > works at Plimoth Plantation (it came up as part of a > discussion on clome ovens, way off-topic for this > list). > > Anyway, she mentioned that Plimoth Plantation, while > heavily involved in creating the series, did NOT > supply the wardrobe for the "colonists"; they supplied > the wardrobe for a later development (I'm trying not > to give too much of the plot away), along with > furniture for the houses, some food stuffs (salt pork > and the such), and several weeks of training so people > wouldn't set themselves on fire trying to cook or cut > their limbs off using an unfamiliar tool. > > >From the clips I've seen as part of the advertising > run-up to the series premiere last night, it appeared > to me that the women "colonists" were working in their > corsets, but not their bodices; for those that haven't > seen the series yet, if you've ever been at a LH > demonstration before/after hours, while people are > getting ready, most of the women I saw looked about > the same as 15th/16th C. women reenactors when they > gotten as far as putting on their shifts, corsets, > petticoats and skirts, but haven't put their bodices > or sleeves on yet. A check of the PBS Web site page to > "meet the colonists" reveals that yes, these women > were running around in what most of us would consider > their underwear. The same appears to hold true for the > men--if the photos on the Web site are any indication, > only the 2 men from the UK seem to realize that a > "civilized" man was not seen in his shirt sleeves. > > I'm curious to see this series, as my DH and I applied > to participate, and were turned down, as were probably > any other active historical reenactors--we simply make > it look too easy , and where's the drama in that > for the average American viewer? Barring an Indian > attack or an outbreak of smallpox, about the only > "drama" the producer can work with is how miserable a > bunch of ill-prepared 21st century people are as they > try to deal with living in the early 17th century. Or > do I sound too cynical? > > Dawn > > ===== > Dawn Jacobson > Vallejo, CA, USA > > Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 08:05:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JC5mRM026741 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 08:05:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JC56NX009623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 06:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JC538M095930; Wed, 19 May 2004 06:05:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JC518M095911 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 06:05:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AD6D22DA007C; Wed, 19 May 2004 08:05:01 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.109]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 19 May 2004 08:04:56 -0400 Message-ID: <009b01c43d9a$5eb821c0$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:11:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 May 2004 12:04:56.0562 (UTC) FILETIME=[8055E520:01C43D99] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "medicine of the day"...I did learn at the cast call last night that at least one of the men had some kind of medical position in real life. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 5:49 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series > I'm not a reenactor by any road, but yes, it would be fun(although I'd > probably make some basic items--shifts, pair of bodies and a skirt,etc in > natural fabrics if I knew I was going to be on this kind of project)to bitch > on the inaccuracy of the supposed accuracy of the project materials > provided. > > And those poor participants were allowed to get sick--they didn't have > anyone trained in the medicine of the day, especially herbal medicine. On > Frontier House, there was at least a vet and doctor available. I think the > idea of having some trained older reenactors as participants to go to would > be very helpful, act as a contrast in knowledge of the times, and eliminate > the sometimes annoying voice-over! > > > > I just loved what they did for punishing in this PC era as an equivalent of > 17th c punishments on the show, at worst--it was like putting little kids in > timeout. Plus the offenders got a one to two hour break from work as the > worst punishment being ankle-hobbled to a stake. I would have at least > wanted to take some sewing or mending to do if weather allowed. > > If they had at least a set of stocks(the sitting version) or a little > platform where one had to sit or stand out in plain sight might have been > more of a deterrent. And most persons looked forward to the Sabbath as a > break from all but essential work. The time between the two usual services > was not only taken up by the midday meal, but allowed socializing and > community interaction. The modern participants seemingly didn't see it that > way, some seeing it as imposing on their "me" time. And Sabbath-breaking was > also done by those desparate to get needed work done, especially if it > involved crops, their animals, or home repair. > > Cindy Abel > > And I think the audience would still enjoy and learn from it. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of M Stewart > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 3:12 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series > > > > Guilty.... oh I would be so totally guilty. lol. > Bridgette > > >What you would get, I think, with a group of 17th or 18th century > reenactors > >put in this show, is a lot of commentary like "I can't believe they gave us > >these bodices, they're so inaccurate for the period" and "okay, the > >cameras are > >just totally ruining the mood here ... can you guys please film from > outside > >the house?" > > > >-Tiffany > > > > Knitting content - just for the heck of it... I'm having a discussion with > one of my fiber geek friends - and I was wondering can anyone on this list > give me their impressions of working with reeled v. spun silk yarn. Any > opinions on what might be more appropriate pre-1600? > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 08:26:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JCQjRM026857 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 08:26:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JCOsNX010600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 06:24:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JCOq8M005160; Wed, 19 May 2004 06:24:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JCOn8M005147 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 06:24:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m238.in-tch.com [216.166.191.238]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4JC0ve11112 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 06:00:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AB52F0.5040608@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 06:28:32 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material References: <200405190412.i4J4Cr8M064304@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200405190412.i4J4Cr8M064304@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, there's at least two perfectly period ways that I can think of, and that's to cover the raw edge with folding braid, or using a buttonhole stitch (these show up in some portraits, especially when you can see the thing full-size, rather than as a bitty, little reprint in a book). --sue Becky wrote: > Besides couching by hand, or using the sewing machine to finish, what are > some different ways to finish slashed material (the holes the chemise gets > pulled through) for a Tudor doublet? What's the best way? I have heard of > stitch witchery, but I wondered about other methods for different fabrics. > For the current project, I am working with velvet, but sometimes work with > brocades or silk. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 08:31:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JCVGRM026891 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 08:31:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JCUkNX010973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 06:30:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JCUi8M008021; Wed, 19 May 2004 06:30:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JCUh8M008011 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 06:30:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2inik6i.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.80.210] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BQQDa-0004iV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 May 2004 08:30:42 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200405190503.i4J53i8O088377@net.indra.com> References: <200405190503.i4J53i8O088377@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:30:25 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: reeling silk X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:03 PM -0600 5/18/04, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >OCC: The basic process for reeling silk is to drop the >coccoons into a pot of gently boiling water, then once >they start to come apart, find the end and begin to >unreel the little buggers. You have to unreel >multiples of them at a time, as an individual strand >is far too fine to do anything with. Reeled silk is >much smoother and stronger than spun silk (spun silk >is created from coccoons that have already lost their >silk worms/moths). Yup, was looking for the Silk Reelin for Dummies... as my Kholander book has gone on a walk about :-) >If you're interested in doing it for historical >purposes, it would be wise to do the entire >sericultural cycle, raising the worms, feeding them, >and then harvesting the silk. This is how the majority >of silk was (and is) created; you wouldn't have >purchased the coccoons and reeled it yourself. Been there, got the T-shirt Have a batch of fresh dead bug cases It's a 1 day demo, so staging instars could be a pain...and the worms are rather fragile for traveling. >A Google of "sericulture" will produce a number of >sites, most in India, where manual silk reeling is >still practiced as a cottage industry. Thanks Carol -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 08:33:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JCXdRM026902 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 08:33:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JCVdNX011015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 06:31:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JCVc8M008416; Wed, 19 May 2004 06:31:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JCV18M008161 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 06:31:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m238.in-tch.com [216.166.191.238]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4JC79e13441 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 06:07:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AB5465.8060601@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 06:34:45 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We don't know that they actually didn't brief her adequately, do we? Lord knows, I've known people you can talk and talk at, and they still won't take it in if they don't want to. IIRC, she was pretty young, and may just have been plain blown away by the reality, especially if she didn't have, say, a full-time job (let alone such a low-status, physical one) back in her non-show life. (that said, I found her irritating as well ;o) --sue Kate M Bunting wrote: > What annoyed me was the kitchenmaid in the "Edwardian Country House" > who left on the first day, horrified at how hard she would have to work. > It seemed a waste of everyone's time that the programme makers hadn't > briefed her better on what to expect - but, as people have been saying, > perhaps it was staged in order to make a dramatic scene. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 08:33:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JCXvRM026905 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 08:33:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JCXPNX011077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 06:33:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JCXP8M009273; Wed, 19 May 2004 06:33:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JCXO8M009261 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 06:33:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m238.in-tch.com [216.166.191.238]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4JC9We14309 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 06:09:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AB54F3.8070504@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 06:37:07 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series References: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> <005401c43d98$7bbca360$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <005401c43d98$7bbca360$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sure they did...I don't recall any shots of women bent over washtubs, but there were shots of tubs being emptied and laundry being hung to dry (I distinctly saw shirts and some sort of linen cloths--dish towels, maybe?) --sue Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > The point about the men is well taken. Early in the second segment, the > 'leader' (Gov) presents the first rules, one of which dealt with nakedness > of men and women. This included the absence of coif, bare arms, and bare > chests of men in the presence of women. I too was bothered by the > slovernless of the men in general. No pride of person. > And, in all the 10 weeks time, no sign or sight of how they handled simple > laundry. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 08:36:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JCa7RM026912 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 08:36:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JCZSNX011236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 06:35:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JCZR8M010256; Wed, 19 May 2004 06:35:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from comet.dns-nac-zone.com (comet.dns-nac-zone.com [207.99.46.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JCZO8N010218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 06:35:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from laura@wisterian.net) Received: from bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com ([129.33.49.251] helo=r78ckbgx) by comet.dns-nac-zone.com with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BQQHz-0003O0-Lw for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 May 2004 12:35:15 +0000 From: "Irmgart H" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:35:41 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <40AB52F0.5040608@in-tch.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - comet.dns-nac-zone.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - wisterian.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO would the folded braid necessarily be the same color, or contrasting, and would bias tape be a somewhat decent subsitute? also, do you have time/place where said braid would be used? Thank you! -Irmgart > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Sue Clemenger > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:29 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material > > > Well, there's at least two perfectly period ways that I can think of, > and that's to cover the raw edge with folding braid, or using a > buttonhole stitch (these show up in some portraits, especially when you > can see the thing full-size, rather than as a bitty, little reprint in a > book). > --sue > > Becky wrote: > > Besides couching by hand, or using the sewing machine to > finish, what are > > some different ways to finish slashed material (the holes the > chemise gets > > pulled through) for a Tudor doublet? What's the best way? I > have heard of > > stitch witchery, but I wondered about other methods for > different fabrics. > > For the current project, I am working with velvet, but > sometimes work with > > brocades or silk. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 08:49:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JCnsRM026962 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 08:49:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JCm6NX011865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 06:48:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JCm48M016210; Wed, 19 May 2004 06:48:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JCm38M016152 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 06:48:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m238.in-tch.com [216.166.191.238]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4JCO6e22206 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 06:24:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AB585D.2050501@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 06:51:41 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wouldn't use bias tape--it makes modern sense, but I don't know of any usage of it in the 16th c. The braid that I saw on portraits (which I'll admit were all 16th c, and almost all English--dunno if that's happenstance or not) was a sort-of coordinating metal braid. The ones that come most clearly to mind, without spending a few happy hours going through my costuming texts, are a series of portraits of Elizabeth I in the first chapter of Arnold's _QE Unlocked_, and on the slashed sleeves on one of the "Bronzino" portraits of Eleanor of Toledo. IIRC, the braid in the Eleanor portrait was gold and black, and fairly flat, like a fingerwoven braid. Her gown was gold and black and white. The chapter in Arnold is where I also saw the buttonhole stitching (on slashes on the front part of her doublet). --sue Irmgart H wrote: > would the folded braid necessarily be the same color, or contrasting, and > would bias tape be a somewhat decent subsitute? also, do you have time/place > where said braid would be used? > > Thank you! > > -Irmgart _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 10:05:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JE5kRM027418 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 10:05:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JE53NX017099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 08:05:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JE508M056615; Wed, 19 May 2004 08:05:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JE498M055878 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 08:04:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc8.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.200]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7922826284B for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 16:04:00 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <007c01c43daa$2bcb87b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200405190503.i4J53i8O088377@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: reeling silk Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:04:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, If you want to skip the reeling and the dyeing and just use it for embroidery try Pipers Silks in England. I have tryed many different embroidery threads till now, but i still say that Pipers is the finest and the best. http://www.pipers-silks.com/ Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "fastusminimus" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:30 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: reeling silk > At 11:03 PM -0600 5/18/04, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > >OCC: The basic process for reeling silk is to drop the > >coccoons into a pot of gently boiling water, then once > >they start to come apart, find the end and begin to > >unreel the little buggers. You have to unreel > >multiples of them at a time, as an individual strand > >is far too fine to do anything with. Reeled silk is > >much smoother and stronger than spun silk (spun silk > >is created from coccoons that have already lost their > >silk worms/moths). > > Yup, was looking for the Silk Reelin for Dummies... > as my Kholander book has gone on a walk about :-) > > >If you're interested in doing it for historical > >purposes, it would be wise to do the entire > >sericultural cycle, raising the worms, feeding them, > >and then harvesting the silk. This is how the majority > >of silk was (and is) created; you wouldn't have > >purchased the coccoons and reeled it yourself. > > Been there, got the T-shirt > Have a batch of fresh dead bug cases > It's a 1 day demo, so staging instars could be a pain...and the worms > are rather fragile for traveling. > > >A Google of "sericulture" will produce a number of > >sites, most in India, where manual silk reeling is > >still practiced as a cottage industry. > > Thanks > Carol > -- > Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 10:33:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JEXvRM027600 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 10:33:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JEXDNX019545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 08:33:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JEXA8M076833; Wed, 19 May 2004 08:33:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from relay2.mail2web.com (relay2.mail2web.com [168.144.1.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JEX58M076645 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 08:33:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from M2W099.mail2web.com ([168.144.251.212]) by relay2.mail2web.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 19 May 2004 10:32:58 -0400 Message-ID: <100-220045319143258876@M2W099.mail2web.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Originating-IP: 167.206.224.2 X-URL: http://mail2web.com/ From: "purplkat@optonline.net" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:32:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 May 2004 14:32:58.0685 (UTC) FILETIME=[2E7E4ED0:01C43DAE] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i4JEX58M076645 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc, I was just about to say the same thing!!! If handmade shoes got that bad after 4 months - I would complain to the shoemaker!! Also, if I was in that kind of show I would have found a way to stitch the soles to the uppers so that they won't 'flap' and finally fail at the worse time. Lady Katheryne who was wondering when the subject would turn to shoes 8-) Original Message: ----------------- From: Marc Carlson marccarlson20@hotmail.com Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 00:55:21 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Ok, I have to say it - after watching this evening's episodes... The shoes should not be that hard to take care of - there's no excuse for then to fall apart like that in the four months they have them -- and if they are slippery, the person isn't walking in them correctly. There, I've bitched :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Best Restaurant Giveaway Ever! Vote for your favorites for a chance to win $1 million! http://local.msn.com/special/giveaway.asp _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 11:42:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JFgmRM028776 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:42:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JFg4NX026435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 09:42:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JFfe8M028040; Wed, 19 May 2004 09:41:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav13.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4IF3X8M096683 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:03:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 18 May 2004 08:03:29 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav13.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:03:28 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:04:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 May 2004 15:03:29.0004 (UTC) FILETIME=[470912C0:01C43CE9] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:41:24 -0600 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Seriously, I wasn't being nasty or even advocating classical music. I mean, > listen to what you want....and watch what you want. I know a lot of people who > can watch TV and sew [and do other things too]. I can't. The screen will take > my attention every time. I guess it all depends how visual you are. I'm not at all visual. I use touch much more than sight. And, of course, all other senses - for example, I'm one of the only people I know who'll notice ambient music in a restaurant. I wonder how much of it comes from my being myopic at a very early age (I was 6 when I got my first pair of glasses, but my mother had started suspecting something long before then, it's just that the doctor refused to test me because I was "too young to have eye problems"). Maybe I learned to compensate young enough that the abilith stayed with me even when my sight was corrected. I'll listen to the radio when I'm working. I'll "listen" to a movie much more often than I "watch" it. This can cause some problems, because often I miss big parts of the storyline because I didn't recognize the characters (but that happens even when I watch the movie closely). Any movie with enough dialogue is good for sewing. Action movies... well... you can't really understand what's going on unless you actually look at the screen. And costume movies kind of BEG you to watch the screen :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 11:45:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JFjfRM028826 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:45:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JFihNX026782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 09:44:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JFid8M030493; Wed, 19 May 2004 09:44:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.connectnet.com (cn7.connectnet.com [207.110.3.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4IKq58M084534 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 14:52:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@cts.com) Received: (qmail 14466 invoked from network); 18 May 2004 20:51:56 -0000 Received: from cts-san216120004104.cts.com (HELO 0018461422) (216.120.4.104) by cn7.connectnet.com with SMTP; 18 May 2004 20:51:56 -0000 From: "Julie" To: Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:52:09 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <200405181355.i4IDtj8O050327@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1156; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:41:24 -0600 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] help with hat documentation X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Help I've made a gorgeous hat and can't document the use of a metal wire (or anything else) in the brim to strengthen it. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I need to get this turn in for points within a couple of weeks. The had is hand carded, hand spun, hand knit (circular) and then hand felted! Last time out I lost points for not documenting the wire. Thanks Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 11:46:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JFkrRM028848 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:46:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JFj2NX026841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 09:45:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JFj08M030829; Wed, 19 May 2004 09:45:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cncsun.kfki.hu (cncsun.kfki.hu [148.6.0.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JEBF8M061197 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 08:11:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from arthp@cncsun.kfki.hu) Received: by cncsun.kfki.hu (Postfix, from userid 2006) id 5FE8D2F1C3; Wed, 19 May 2004 16:11:12 +0200 (MEST) From: Web Gallery Postcard Service Message-Id: <20040519141112.5FE8D2F1C3@cncsun.kfki.hu> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:11:12 +0200 (MEST) To: undisclosed-recipients:; X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1074; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:41:24 -0600 Subject: [h-cost] Postcard from Catalina X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1601364900==" Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --===============1601364900== Content-Type: text Greetings, You have received a virtual postcard. You can view it by directing your browser to the URL http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/postcard.cgi?code=628748&lang=0&action=read Best wishes, Postcard Service, Web Gallery of Art http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/ --===============1601364900== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --===============1601364900==-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 11:48:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JFmGRM028875 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:48:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JFkQNX026950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 09:46:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JFjr8M031515; Wed, 19 May 2004 09:46:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4JFhm8M029814 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 09:43:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Oo70d94W2IusYJBU9al8oGc= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JVZMWYHF; Wed, 19 May 2004 08:42:45 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:42:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives Message-ID: <20040519.084229.1864.7.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,7-12 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: kat@redtrollfroge.com, Cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all. My apologies if you got this twice--it didn't appear to have gone on yesterday on my end. My questions concerns this pic: http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein39.html The collar appears to have two different blackwork patterns on it--one on the inner layer and one on the outer. If that's the case, how would the collar have been constructed? seeking clarity, Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 11:49:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JFnlRM028909 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:49:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JFlWNX027114 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 09:47:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JFlT8M032847; Wed, 19 May 2004 09:47:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JFiV8M030200 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 09:44:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5013A4264B for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:03:48 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40AB849F.9000505@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:00:31 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series References: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> <005401c43d98$7bbca360$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <005401c43d98$7bbca360$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > I too was bothered by the > slovernless of the men in general. No pride of person. I noticed last night that the men are all wearing their clothes as if they had modern sweatpants and t-shirts on. The two oldest men seem to be a little neater in appearance than the younger guys. I was shocked at how ragged some of the shirts appeared to be after just 8 weeks, I saw a lot of holes and split seams that should have been fixed with simple mending. The 'colonists' don't seem to have any appreciation for the amount of labor that goes into making a single shirt by hand and the necessity of keeping it mended. The woman who won't wear a coif and has her hair in her face all the time and her shift down to her elbows and her corset unlaced really looks bad. The corsets in general look bad, like they don't fit. I think others have observed that already. I thought it was ironic how they put the keg of beer under a shelter but left the cured meats out in the sun. But then, it was probably staged for dramatic effect. "Ewww, moldy bacon!". Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 12:11:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JGBKRM029363 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 12:11:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JG9INX029457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 10:09:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JG9E8M050384; Wed, 19 May 2004 10:09:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from x11.quik.com (x11.quik.com [209.213.140.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JG8o8M050024 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 10:08:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: (from root@localhost) by x11.quik.com (8.12.9-20030926/8.12.5) id i4JG8q9v021052 for h-costume@indra.com.qbigmail; Wed, 19 May 2004 09:08:52 -0700 Received: from quik.com (x1.quik.com [216.176.27.101]) by x11.quik.com (8.12.9-20030926/8.12.5) with SMTP id i4JG8qi8021048 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 09:08:52 -0700 Received: from 68.230.200.23 (QuikMail authenticated user ladyanne) by webmail.quik.com with HTTP; Wed, 19 May 2004 09:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3698.68.230.200.23.1084982932.squirrel@webmail.quik.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] period glasses From: To: In-Reply-To: <007001c4352e$fe3ffa70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <007001c4352e$fe3ffa70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: QuikMail (version 1.2.10) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I did this some years ago with a lorgnette I had. It was no more expensive than having new lenses ground for an existing frame. Yes, getting fully equipped can be very expensive. Anne > Hi. > I just realised i needed some glasses for my 18th century outfit. When i > am going to demonstrate embroidery at the 1700 marketplace at the > mannorhouse of Gammel Estrup. I baught Jas Townsends glasses and some > nice knee buckles and a nice reproduktion pocket watch........... Have > any of you had your optician put glasses in your period glasses? Is this > expensive? I need to get some reading glasses in them, so that i can se > my embroidery :-) Well it is rather expensive to get fully equiped isnt > it? > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 12:51:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JGprRM029677 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 12:51:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JGo0NX004434 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 10:50:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JGno8M082841; Wed, 19 May 2004 10:49:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JGnk8M082795 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 10:49:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu (vcs077.vet.cornell.edu [128.253.111.77]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i4JGnhd0008732 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 12:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040519124601.01c1ed68@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 12:49:52 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives In-Reply-To: <20040519.084229.1864.7.Cley@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Arlys... two different pieces of cloth... sewn together along three sides (leave the bottom open) with right sides facing one another. then turn the collar right side out... attach the bottom of the exterior of the collar -(the right side) to the right side of the exterior of the shirt. Sew along that edge. then turn the collar up press the bulk of the seam to the interior of the collar. fold over the bottom edge of the interior piece of the collar and stitch that down. Done. Bridgette >Greetings all. My apologies if you got this twice--it didn't appear to >have gone on yesterday on my end. My questions concerns this pic: > > http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein39.html > >The collar appears to have two different blackwork patterns on it--one on >the inner layer and one on the outer. If that's the case, how would the >collar have been constructed? > > >seeking clarity, >Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 13:02:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JH2aRM029783 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 13:02:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JH0aNX005688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 11:00:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JH0W8M091172; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:00:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4JH0U8M091008 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:00:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OpD7WCDFMTqVejleI48oz8M= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JVZSB2V7; Wed, 19 May 2004 09:59:48 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:58:43 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives Message-ID: <20040519.095844.524.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-48 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks! Any guesses on how common this practice was of using two different patterns? It's quite lovely. Arlys On Wed, 19 May 2004 12:49:52 -0400 M Stewart writes: > > Hey Arlys... > > two different pieces of cloth... sewn together along three sides > (leave > the bottom open) with right sides facing one another. then turn the > collar > right side out... attach the bottom of the exterior of the collar > -(the > right side) to the right side of the exterior of the shirt. Sew > along that > edge. then turn the collar up press the bulk of the seam to the > interior > of the collar. fold over the bottom edge of the interior piece of > the > collar and stitch that down. Done. > > Bridgette > > > >Greetings all. My apologies if you got this twice--it didn't appear > to > >have gone on yesterday on my end. My questions concerns this pic: > > > > http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein39.html > > > >The collar appears to have two different blackwork patterns on > it--one on > >the inner layer and one on the outer. If that's the case, how would > the > >collar have been constructed? > > > > > >seeking clarity, > >Arlys > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 13:37:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JHb7RM029933 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 13:37:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JHaONX009930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 11:36:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JHZ98M018591; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:35:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes1.whowhere.com [209.202.220.218]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4JHZ68M018427 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:35:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:34:49 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:34:49 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.66 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, If you can track down: Arnold, Janet. A Handbook of Costume -- Macmillan 1973. Reprinted 1978. She actually discusses the multiple portraits of Jane Seymour and shows them side by side. Cheers, Danielle >I have an image in my portrait file of Jane Seymour with different >lower sleeves. They appear to be a creamy off-white and are pleated >from wrist towards the elbow (which of course, can't be seen since >it's beneath the voluminous folded upper sleeve). The gown appears to >be the same as in the portrait that's the best known. > >I wish I could tell you where it came from, but I've lost the >documentation over the years. It is identified as being a Holbein and >does look like one of his works. > >I do remember emailing the museum, hoping that they could tell me more >about it, but they really couldn't. And I do remember that English was >not their native language. > >I'll try to find a place to put the image so that y'all can see it. >I'll post the url when I can find webspace. > >kate >PS--the blackwork on her chemise cuffs is also different than the >famous portrait! > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 13:39:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JHdMRM029941 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 13:39:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JHcnNX010208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 11:38:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JHbc8M020622; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:37:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes1.whowhere.com [209.202.220.218]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4JHbZ8M020486 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:37:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:37:10 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:37:10 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot danish wedding X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.66 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, actually I'm working on mine at the moment, I have a long way to go until I'm finished. : ) But it does mean that my head is thoroughly submerged in my work and I haven't the fainest idea what is going on in the world around me unless I happen to catch the news at dinner time... Cheers, Danielle >Hey! I just noticed your sig line! Congratulations on your success! >Another doctor in the house (hee hee)! > >Emer \ Gia >> Cheers, >> Danielle in PhD land... Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 13:41:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JHfMRM029951 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 13:41:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JHegNX010398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 11:40:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JHdR8M021947; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:39:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail5.mdx.safepages.com (mail5.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JHd88M021667 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:39:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE2251CE217 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:38:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail5.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail5.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 63061-09 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:38:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 85A811CCFF2; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:37:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust167.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.167]) by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 02ED91CE91F for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:37:08 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <044c01c43dc8$1ddd9170$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 12:38:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=many X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Some skills? Absolutely. But there's a good deal of written evidence that in terms of knowledge level and skills, many of the colonists (and frontier settlers) were horribly unprepared. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Carnegie" > That is true, but much of the skill described in these shows would be just > as common back in civilization as well. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 13:49:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JHnbRM029987 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 13:49:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JHmXNX011499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 11:48:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JHlK8M028445; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:47:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes1.whowhere.com [209.202.220.218]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4JHlI8M028330 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:47:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:46:59 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:46:59 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.66 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO IIRC, Arnold also mentions using wax or gum arabic on the cut edges. Test on scraps first of course. Cheers, Danielle >Well, there's at least two perfectly period ways that I can think of, >and that's to cover the raw edge with folding braid, or using a >buttonhole stitch (these show up in some portraits, especially when you >can see the thing full-size, rather than as a bitty, little reprint in a >book). >--sue > >Becky wrote: >> Besides couching by hand, or using the sewing machine to finish, what are >> some different ways to finish slashed material (the holes the chemise gets >> pulled through) for a Tudor doublet? What's the best way? I have heard of >> stitch witchery, but I wondered about other methods for different fabrics. >> For the current project, I am working with velvet, but sometimes work with >> brocades or silk. Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 13:54:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JHsGRM030013 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 13:54:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JHpLNX011794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 11:51:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JHo98M030578; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:50:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes1.whowhere.com [209.202.220.218]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4JHo48M030433 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:50:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:49:55 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:49:55 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.66 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are also a number of Spanish portraits that show bound slashes. The one that comes to mind is a woman with the Spanish round sleeves so slashed that it was just a series of giant loopy things. I think they were red bound in a gold coloured fabric of the same type as the gown... Cheers, Danielle >I wouldn't use bias tape--it makes modern sense, but I don't know of any >usage of it in the 16th c. >The braid that I saw on portraits (which I'll admit were all 16th c, and >almost all English--dunno if that's happenstance or not) was a sort-of >coordinating metal braid. The ones that come most clearly to mind, >without spending a few happy hours going through my costuming texts, are >a series of portraits of Elizabeth I in the first chapter of Arnold's >_QE Unlocked_, and on the slashed sleeves on one of the "Bronzino" >portraits of Eleanor of Toledo. IIRC, the braid in the Eleanor portrait >was gold and black, and fairly flat, like a fingerwoven braid. Her gown >was gold and black and white. >The chapter in Arnold is where I also saw the buttonhole stitching (on >slashes on the front part of her doublet). >--sue > >Irmgart H wrote: > >> would the folded braid necessarily be the same color, or contrasting, and >> would bias tape be a somewhat decent subsitute? also, do you have time/place >> where said braid would be used? >> >> Thank you! >> >> -Irmgart > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 14:23:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JINARM030191 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:23:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JIM5NX015589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 12:22:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JILU8M055308; Wed, 19 May 2004 12:21:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JILQ8M055246 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 12:21:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA15333 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 13:21:23 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:21:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <044c01c43dc8$1ddd9170$0400a8c0@compaqub> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It was true that most of the early colonists(Roanoke, Jamestown, and Plimouth)were unprepared to settle in a wilderness. Of the Plimouth settlers, most were city folk and had lived in Leyden for the ones that sailed from Holland and the English that joined them later were town or traditional small farm folk that did not know how to fish or hunt. Since hunting was a sport for the upper classes anyway on their own private grounds, the poor colonists were surrounded by wild game and deer with little skill or means to get their own meat. Same goes for fishing. Fortunately hunger creates fast learners but some settlers, with no experience with a seafood or venison diet, were loath to give up foods they were used to for something more plentiful and healthful(Sound familiar?) Cindy Abel But _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 14:56:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JIuMRM030388 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:56:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JItcNX018911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 12:55:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JItM8M080318; Wed, 19 May 2004 12:55:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JItK8M080233 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 12:55:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BQWDj-000KIi-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 May 2004 19:55:15 +0100 Message-ID: <3dTrxBJZt6qAJw1K@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 19:45:45 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series References: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> <005801c43dcf$9a0af330$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> <40AAEA64.5D751454@floodcity.net> In-Reply-To: <40AAEA64.5D751454@floodcity.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm just impressed at the amount of training they did actually give them, compared to the British versions I've seen. As someone has said, the 1900 House had no clue, and on Surviving the Iron Age they all got food poisoning because they didn't even have anyone who could cook on a barbecue - nobody with the first inkling of cooking with fire! Jean Kitty Felton wrote >LOL, well, we have to remember that if it was done correctly the first >time, these people would just look like actors to the viewer, not like >people trying something they aren't used to. > I'm no historian, nor even a reenactor, just a camper, and semi-self >suficient person, but I bet even I would have been rejected, they seem >to like the city people who've never seen anything that wasn't already >semi prepared from the supermarket. Kitty > >Gia wrote: >> >> Nah, I think you hit the nail in the head... >> >> Emer \ Gia >> > I'm curious to see this series, as my DH and I applied >> > to participate, and were turned down, as were probably >> > any other active historical reenactors--we simply make >> > it look too easy , and where's the drama in that >> > for the average American viewer? Barring an Indian >> > attack or an outbreak of smallpox, about the only >> > "drama" the producer can work with is how miserable a >> > bunch of ill-prepared 21st century people are as they >> > try to deal with living in the early 17th century. Or >> > do I sound too cynical? >> > >> > Dawn >> > >> > ===== >> > Dawn Jacobson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 14:58:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JIw9RM030396 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:58:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JIvMNX019096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 12:57:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JIvE8M081613; Wed, 19 May 2004 12:57:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JItK8M080232 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 12:55:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BQWDj-000KIj-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 19 May 2004 19:55:15 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 19:54:12 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Sewing and multi-tasking References: <40AA7314.5030205@uvm.edu> <005901c43d1e$ad521f10$0200a8c0@MOM> In-Reply-To: <005901c43d1e$ad521f10$0200a8c0@MOM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have learned that the reason I dislike embroidery, or complex patterns for knitting or weaving, is because I have to concentrate on that one thing but it isn't enough to really fill my mind. I like to knit or weave or sew while watching TV or listening to the radio (or talking to punters). I used to be able to knit and read at the same time, but with the things I do now I don't have enough free knee to put the book on. Jean Penny Ladnier wrote >I have been doing hand sewing while doing a number of things since >childhood. I did the majority of my stitching when my kids were little. >They would play in whatever room I was in. They were excited with every >little accomplishment with my project. Nice feeling! TVs in our house are >on all the time. We even situated the TV in my office to where I can look >over the computer monitor and watch TV. Now I do a lot of repetitive machine >sewing on quilts. I watch TV while doing it. Also found that I can bring >hand sewing into the kitchen. During the wait times with cooking, I will >sew and watch TV. I have always been one of those people who does 10 things >at one time. > >I also carry sewing projects with me when I know that I will be waiting, >like doctor's offices. At least I am not as bad as *some* people I know, >who travel with their sewing machine... not mentioning any names. LOL!!! >I have even been crocheting behind the computer and watching TV. I was >following an online pattern. Idle hands are the devil's workshop! > >Penny E. Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >www.costumegallery.com >www.costumeclassroom.com > > >[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners >(http://www.plugit.com)] > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 15:36:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JJaYRM030579 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 15:36:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JJYZNX022649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 13:34:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JJYV8M009941; Wed, 19 May 2004 13:34:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f32.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JJYR8M009809 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 13:34:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 19 May 2004 12:34:19 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 19 May 2004 19:34:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:34:19 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 May 2004 19:34:19.0859 (UTC) FILETIME=[47B68230:01C43DD8] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Shoes (was Colonial House series) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "purplkat@optonline.net" >I was just about to say the same thing!!! >If handmade shoes got that bad after 4 months - I would complain to the >shoemaker!! Absolutely. >Also, if I was in that kind of show I would have found a way to stitch the >soles to the uppers so that they won't 'flap' and finally fail at the worse >time. I'm not sure they could. Unsubstantiated rumor has it that the soles were stuck in with some sort of adhesive, so there may not have been any kind of stitch holes. Without stitch holes, and without an awl, repairs are hard to make. I think this ties into the whole thing about not understanding how much work goes into making clothes and how to deal with them properly. We (as a culture) don't encourage that sort of care in our stuff these days. We have too much stuff, and it's too easily replaced. Don't get me wrong, I'm hard on my clothes when I'm _not_ actively out doing stuff like farming andf building a house :) Even so, while watching me chew through a pair of sneakers every year, I have sitting in the back of my mind my grandmother ..."*wack* Don't you kave any idea how much those shoes COST?" :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 17:57:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JLvvRM032118 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:57:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JLv7NX008030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 15:57:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JLtB0Y021142; Wed, 19 May 2004 15:55:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JLsx0Y020979 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 15:55:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id A5B2A5CC102; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:55:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0559.floodcity.net [198.93.213.51]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 401B55CC6B8 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:55:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40ABD733.CB73EAC8@floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:52:51 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series References: <40AAEB4C.3000204@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd like to have seen that. sounds interesting. Kitty Sue Clemenger wrote: > > I've seen some of the Canadian ones (the folks who spent a year? > homesteading), and I really like them, not that I'm exactly a > representative American or anything! > And it wasn't the whiny *kids* on Frontier House that drove me nuts, it > was the whiny *adults.* And the one girl (the newlywed?) who didn't > even know how to cook (geeze, I woulda at least been cheating by going > down to the local library or used bookstore, and looking for Foxfire > books or something!) And the straggly hair (good grief, the first > thing I do when I'm cleaning house or when I used to do field or barn > work on my folks' farm was to braid my hair back, and put on a hat or > scarf of some sort!) > You're right, though, to remind us that there's a lot of editing going > on with these things--I wonder what it's like to be a participant in one > of these shows, and then see how it's portrayed to everyone else! > --sue > > Ron Carnegie wrote: > > > Actually the Canadian "quest" series does use a knowledgeable cast I > > believe are by far the more interesting shows. Would the rest of America > > agree I don't know. I know the makers of the American ones would not agree. > > A friend of mine was the domestic advisor for Frontier House. She told me > > that the whiny, complaining kids of that series were actually very nice > > kids. She reminded me that they were on the Frontier for a number of months > > and that the show was only about six hours long. With that in mind these > > shows teach far more about what the Producers, Directors, and Editors find > > important than what really happened. > > > > Cheers, > > Ron > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 18:19:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JMJ2RM032381 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 18:19:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JMIMNX010390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 16:18:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JMID0Y039807; Wed, 19 May 2004 16:18:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes1.whowhere.com [209.202.220.218]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4JMIA0Y039693 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 16:18:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Wed, 19 May 2004 22:17:51 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 22:17:51 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Postcard from Catalina X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.65 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Interesting. To me that reads clearly as stitched down gathers/pleats and tied at the openings with black ribbons. It is clear that the black ribbon doesn't go through a casing and there are no apparent white ribbons or ties that would suggest gathered drawstrings to me. Just my take on it. Cheers, Danielle >Greetings, > >You have received a virtual postcard. You can view it by directing >your browser to the URL http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/postcard.cgi?code=628748&lang=0&action=read > >Best wishes, >Postcard Service, Web Gallery of Art >http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/ > Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 19:15:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4JNFhRM000361 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 19:15:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JNF1NX015615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 17:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JNEv0Y080686; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:14:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4JNEt0Y080665 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:14:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-70-32.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.70.32]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4JNE9sS022466 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 18:14:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040519161323.02110100@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:14:34 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >There are also a number of Spanish portraits that show bound slashes. The >one that comes to mind is a woman with the Spanish round sleeves so slashed >that it was just a series of giant loopy things. I think they were red >bound in a gold coloured fabric of the same type as the gown... I thought she meant slashed, as in cut, rather than paned, which often have finished edges. The cut-edged slashed items don't usually have binding around the edges, where the paned ones often do. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 21:43:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4K1hfRM000902 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 21:43:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K1gvNX025845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 19:42:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K1gf0Y064828; Wed, 19 May 2004 19:42:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4K1gc0Y064771 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 19:42:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: (qmail 24241 invoked from network); 20 May 2004 03:10:44 -0000 Received: from dialup-4.249.132.132.dial1.washington2.level3.net (HELO oldwaylane.net) (4.249.132.132) by shada.com with SMTP; 20 May 2004 03:10:44 -0000 Message-ID: <40AC0B58.4060609@oldwaylane.net> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 21:35:20 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] nursing garb portrait References: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E75A6316@oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com> In-Reply-To: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E75A6316@oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Lena, looks interesting! I wish I could read Swedish (or write it). I checked at the English Forum, but there doesn't seem to be much in the way of activity. Would I be able to get some help there? I'd love to make a 15th cent Swedish dress, but I have a few questions on details. Thanks, -Judy Mitchell Lena Strid wrote: > The breast feeding topic came up a few months ago on the Swedish Medieval > re-enactment/living history forum > (http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/forum/) and a few pictures were linked > to. As I don't have internet access right now, I cannot unfortunately check > it for you. But they have an English forum part as well, further down on the > page. Ask there, and I'm sure someone will give you the links. > > Best of luck, > Lena > (goes back to lurking) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 22:24:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4K2O9RM001130 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 22:24:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K2MGNX028757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 20:22:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K2MD0Y087728; Wed, 19 May 2004 20:22:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K2MA0Y087714 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 20:22:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 9AD7A5CC535; Wed, 19 May 2004 22:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0632.floodcity.net [198.93.213.124]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 942075CC0FE for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 22:22:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40AC15C5.7ABE8783@floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 22:19:49 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Sewing and multi-tasking References: <40AA7314.5030205@uvm.edu> <005901c43d1e$ad521f10$0200a8c0@MOM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jean Waddie wrote: > > I have learned that the reason I dislike embroidery, or complex patterns > for knitting or weaving, is because I have to concentrate on that one > thing but it isn't enough to really fill my mind. I like to knit or > weave or sew while watching TV or listening to the radio (or talking to > punters). I used to be able to knit and read at the same time, but with > the things I do now I don't have enough free knee to put the book on. > > Jean > Now THAT's multi tasking. I used to read and walk down the hall at the same time, or read a fiction book and take notes on a lecture at the same time, and I still read and watch TV at the same time. but I take my hat off to anyone that can sew and read at the same time, or read and compute and watch TV at the same time. I am an amateur. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 22:44:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4K2i2RM001215 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 22:44:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K2gANX029863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 20:42:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K2g80Y098427; Wed, 19 May 2004 20:42:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K2g70Y098394 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 20:42:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.173] (pm5-173.eos.net [205.133.149.173]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4K2g0vD020261 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 22:42:01 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 22:40:57 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200405182325.i4INPG8N003360@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: colonial house X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I have to completely disagree with "E House" on this one. I did get to see some of Colonial House last night -- parts of two different episodes -- and that was more than enough for me. This show is simply ridiculous. I think the Voorhees (?) family alone is more annoying than the entire crew on the Frontier House, which I very much enjoyed. The part I saw most of was the Sabbath breaking scene. First of all, the whole thing was completely stupid. If people weren't signed on to be pretend New Englanders, who would gladly have stuck anyone who skipped Sabbath directly in the stocks, then the whole thing is just Survivor in colonial clothes. And second, I found it personally offensive. Though my own religious beliefs are far from Puritan, I think using religion to drum up some fake drama is a new low for reality television. In the few minutes of the show I watched, I saw people skinnydipping, talking about how they couldn't have "great sex" in colonial days, confiding their homosexuality, and refusing to wear caps because of "feminism." This may be typical prime time television fare -- but hey, I watch public television to get away from typical prime time television fare. And as I said, that's quite enough for me. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 22:51:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4K2p4RM001274 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 22:51:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K2nGNX000397 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 20:49:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K2nE0Y002247; Wed, 19 May 2004 20:49:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K2nB0Y002191 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 20:49:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.92.b70d4ee (3988) for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 22:49:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <92.b70d4ee.2ddd769c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 22:49:00 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/19/04 9:42:49 PM Central Daylight Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: Though my own religious beliefs are far from Puritan, I think using religion to drum up some fake drama is a new low for reality television. I actually thought this about the whole homosexual issue. For pete's sake, can we have just one show anymore where we aren't tripping over someone's sexual preference? I frankly would have been happy never even considering who or what these people get it on with after the cameras go off. I am not homophobic by any means; the issue of homosexuality is actually the one huge area where I differ enormously from my usual political party's platform. I believe in the rights of homosexuals to live their lives to whatever extent heterosexuals do. I also believe that they have a right - and I sure wish some of them would exercise it more often - to SHUT UP and not even broach the subject in inappropriate situations and manners. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 23:38:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4K3cQRM001538 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 23:38:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K3bdNX003751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 21:37:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K3bZ0Y027644; Wed, 19 May 2004 21:37:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K3bX0Y027591 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 21:37:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce ([64.0.176.13]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 19 May 2004 22:37:20 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 22:37:40 -0500 Message-ID: <004801c43e1b$cde39620$0db00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <92.b70d4ee.2ddd769c@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2004 03:37:20.0788 (UTC) FILETIME=[C1B15540:01C43E1B] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Personally, I was waiting for the Princess bride quote- "well, you've been doing a great job, Wesley, but I'm going to have to kill you in the morning.." -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:49 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house In a message dated 5/19/04 9:42:49 PM Central Daylight Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: Though my own religious beliefs are far from Puritan, I think using religion to drum up some fake drama is a new low for reality television. I actually thought this about the whole homosexual issue. For pete's sake, can we have just one show anymore where we aren't tripping over someone's sexual preference? I frankly would have been happy never even considering who or what these people get it on with after the cameras go off. I am not homophobic by any means; the issue of homosexuality is actually the one huge area where I differ enormously from my usual political party's platform. I believe in the rights of homosexuals to live their lives to whatever extent heterosexuals do. I also believe that they have a right - and I sure wish some of them would exercise it more often - to SHUT UP and not even broach the subject in inappropriate situations and manners. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 23:52:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4K3q9RM001638 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 23:52:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K3ntNX004499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 21:49:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K3nq0Y033527; Wed, 19 May 2004 21:49:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K3nm0Y033500 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 21:49:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 809B85CC697; Wed, 19 May 2004 23:49:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0632.floodcity.net [198.93.213.124]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55C575CC263 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 23:49:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40AC2A61.18B32F5D@floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:47:45 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series References: <009b01c43d9a$5eb821c0$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been following this discussion and I managed to catch the "making of" for the show which was tacked onto the end of the "secrets of the Dead" show about the Normandy Beaches. anyway, it seems that the women actually were Told to wear the corsets on the outside, by someone. one of the producers or costumers mentioned it like the women were such little troupers for wearing their corsets over their "blouses". I missed the whole show but they are showing the last segment from 1am to 3 am so I am going to try to find a tape and catch that segment at least. thought you all might find that tidbit interesting. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 19 23:56:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4K3ulRM001653 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 23:56:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K3uANX004951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 May 2004 21:56:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K3u90Y036849; Wed, 19 May 2004 21:56:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K3u50Y036815 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 21:56:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 045295CC537; Wed, 19 May 2004 23:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0632.floodcity.net [198.93.213.124]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1A775CC42C for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 23:56:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40AC2BDB.59466C7B@floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:54:03 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO yes, this is the way I envision a good show, this would work wonderfully as far as i can see. Kitty Lynn Downward wrote: > Yes, yes yes! It would be wonderful to see an older reenactor couple in the > house down the way who could be the older, wiser generation that the others > could go to for help when it became necessary. Families historically have > had an older generation to learn from; grandpa or even great-grandpa would > be able to show one how to work on the tractor or fix the broken mangle > washer or how to make certain that bread WILL rise, even if the yeast is > old. I think that would still be entertaining and educational television, > without putting the people or their relationships in jeopardy. > > LynnD > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 05:10:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4K9APRM029050 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 05:10:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K99dNX023886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 03:09:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K99S0Y093011; Thu, 20 May 2004 03:09:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K99M0Y092875 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 03:09:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ff5.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.245]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D793226288E for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:09:14 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000c01c43e4a$262a60b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:09:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] funny story X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4K9APRM029050 Status: RO Hi, i just remembered a funny thing that happened to me and Leif last summer when we were on vacation to Portugal. We were going to find an art museum in Porto and we had map with us and we walked and walked. Finally i thoaght that we had found the place because there were a lot of people queueing inside the building. I stood up in the line, and when it got my turn, i asked to get two tickets. The lady looked very strange at me and said 2 tickets? This is a hospital. You can imagine how silly i looked when i walked away from that line. I was glad that most of the people there, did not understand what i had asked for. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 05:54:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4K9sHRM029229 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 05:54:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K9rgNX026168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 03:53:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K9rg0Y010947; Thu, 20 May 2004 03:53:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K9qm0Y010566 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 03:52:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.40]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4K9qNEc032430 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 19:52:43 +1000 Message-ID: <000401c43e4f$cf9c9320$2891d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40A6B121.50805@thibault.org> <200405172036.46999.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: wedding-Hello Mag. Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 22:52:24 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-DCC-MessageCare-Metrics: net.indra.com 1108; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > "The bride opted for an elegant medieval look with a gown featuring > > lily-shaped sleeves, a dramatic almost off-the-shoulder neckline and > > panels opening out from the waist to reveal 100-year-old lace" > > > > I know a fair amount about medieval, and although this is lovely and > > chic and all those things, it sure doesn't look medieval to me! > > I agree. But to people whose knowledge of historic costume is limited to > Victorian paintings and the occasional movie, anything with "lily shaped" > sleeves will look medieval. :-) > Cathy Raymond > Of course being associated with a princess (and the 'commoner' marrying 'the handsome prince') also helps conjure up images of the middle ages (whether authentic or pre-raphaelite interpretations) as that is the most popular style for fairytale princesses (I certainly noticed 'fairytale' being used a lot in news reports about the wedding). Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 05:54:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4K9seRM029232 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 05:54:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K9qmNX026099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 03:52:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K9qk0Y010561; Thu, 20 May 2004 03:52:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K9qg0Y010463 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 03:52:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.40]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4K9qNEY032430 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 19:52:28 +1000 Message-ID: <000201c43e4f$c5baaae0$2891d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 21:25:17 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn Jacobson" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:20 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series > >From the clips I've seen as part of the advertising > run-up to the series premiere last night, it appeared > to me that the women "colonists" were working in their > corsets, but not their bodices; for those that haven't > seen the series yet, if you've ever been at a LH > demonstration before/after hours, while people are > getting ready, most of the women I saw looked about > the same as 15th/16th C. women reenactors when they > gotten as far as putting on their shifts, corsets, > petticoats and skirts, but haven't put their bodices > or sleeves on yet. A check of the PBS Web site page to > "meet the colonists" reveals that yes, these women > were running around in what most of us would consider > their underwear. The same appears to hold true for the > men--if the photos on the Web site are any indication, > only the 2 men from the UK seem to realize that a > "civilized" man was not seen in his shirt sleeves. > > I'm curious to see this series, as my DH and I applied > to participate, and were turned down, as were probably > any other active historical reenactors--we simply make > it look too easy , and where's the drama in that > for the average American viewer? Barring an Indian > attack or an outbreak of smallpox, about the only > "drama" the producer can work with is how miserable a > bunch of ill-prepared 21st century people are as they > try to deal with living in the early 17th century. Or > do I sound too cynical? > > Dawn > We haven't seen this yet (though if it's a success we'll probably see it in a few months), but the whole wearing just corsets was something I noticed about Frontier house, I also saw 1 or 2 of the girls wandering around without their chemises under their corsets and cringed (those corsets are going to get dirty and be hard to wash and they're going to get sunburnt because funnily enough sunblock isn't period). On the topic of the UK/USA divide did you get the UK series the Edwardian country house, It certainly didn't have costuming slip ups, (but then again it's a very different environment being part of an upper class household where propriety is so vitally important compared to being a pioneer type out in the middle of nowhere) but still there seemed to be quite unrealistic expectations on the part of several of the servants especially the 1st (I think they went through 3) scullery maid. No you don't sound too cynical, though an Indian attack or an outbreak of cholera etc (smallpox might be a bit hard to get hold of but contaminated water is always a good source of disease) would be interesting to see *g*. after all they are trying to entertain people, it's the same with most 'reality TV' conflict or hardship gets people much more interested than everybody getting along fine, and of course if they wanted to get pictures of people acting like this was ordinary everyday life they would film people in their ordinary everyday life. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 08:42:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KCgvRM029960 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:42:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KCejNX004494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 06:40:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KCeL0Y081492; Thu, 20 May 2004 06:40:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.primushost.com (smtp2.primushost.com [209.58.220.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KCeI0Z081439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 06:40:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1BQmqK-00066l-1I; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:40:12 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 1BQmhH-0004oj-00; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:30:51 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:30:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: historic costume Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] costume exhibits X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here are some costume exhibit listings from my latest costume society newsletter. A. IT'S ABOUT TIME: Opening at the Cincinnati Art Museum on June 19 is "It's About Time: Dressing Through the Day." The author of the 1866 journal "The Habits of Good Society" stated that: "The perfect agreement of...dress with the hour and the occasion is the secret of...success." While appropriate dress was an important social ritual in the 19th century, it is one that we continue to engage in on a daily basis. Considered by the time of day during which they would have been worn, the objects in this exhibition are recent gifts and purchases. This exhibition, open through October 10, 2004, celebrates the richness of the Cincinnati Art Museum's costume collection and the generosity of its donors. http://www.cincinnatiartmuseum.org. B. WESTERN RESERVE: "The Daring Decade: Women in the 1920s" opens this month at the Western Reserve Historical Society in Cleveland, OH. The exhibit runs through October 24, 2004 and shows how the 1920s were a decade of rapid change, when an emphasis on youth and adventure overcame the traditional social and moral restrictions placed on women. It showcases 40 costumes from the Society's collection, plus decorative arts and library archives to address this dramatic transition in the societal role of the American woman. See the website: http://www.wrhs.org. C. MARK TWAIN: LYNNE BASSETT, an independent scholar from Maine, is the guest curator of the exhibition "'Modesty died when clothes were born': Costume in the Life and Literature of Mark Twain." The exhibit opens at the Mark Twain House in Hartford, CT on June 26 and runs through October, 2004. See the website: http://www.marktwainhouse.org/. D. JAZZ ERA: The "Objects of Desire: Cars and Clothes of the Jazz Age" exhibit opens May 29, 2004 at the Indiana State Museum in Indianapolis, featuring Jazz-era costumes and seven Indiana-made classic cars. The 1920s and 1930s, a dynamic period in American history, was symbolized by great wealth and extreme poverty, danger, excitement, Hollywood glamour, and dreams of unlimited opportunities. And no icon is more representative of that era than the classic Indiana-made automobile. Style and fashion were a major part of the Jazz Age. "High style" clothing from the era will be on display in the exhibit, from Fortuny gowns to raccoon coats. At an opening "speakeasy" event on Friday evening, June 4, visitors are invited to dress in Jazz Age attire and dance to the sounds of a live band! The exhibit runs through October 3, 2004. Call 317-232-1637 for more information. http://www.in.gov/ism/PlanningYourVisit/EventsCalendar.asp?Month=5&Day=2 Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 09:22:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KDMDRM030245 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:22:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KDKINX006907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 07:20:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KDJt0Y001676; Thu, 20 May 2004 07:19:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KDIo0Y001017 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 07:18:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a229.in-tch.com [66.62.107.29]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4KCste00842 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 06:54:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40ACB118.1030302@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 07:22:32 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] funny story References: <000c01c43e4a$262a60b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000c01c43e4a$262a60b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-sgs_public_dcc_server-Metrics: net.indra.com 1199; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, goodness! That's funny and embarrassing at the same time! Did you ever find your museum? --sue, going back to her knitting ;o) Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, i just remembered a funny thing that happened to me and Leif last > summer when we were on vacation to Portugal. We were going to find an > art museum in Porto and we had map with us and we walked and walked. > Finally i thoaght that we had found the place because there were a > lot of people queueing inside the building. I stood up in the line, > and when it got my turn, i asked to get two tickets. The lady looked > very strange at me and said 2 tickets? This is a hospital. You can > imagine how silly i looked when i walked away from that line. I was > glad that most of the people there, did not understand what i had > asked for. > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 09:43:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KDhPRM030430 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:43:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KDg9NX008641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 07:42:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KDg50Y013174; Thu, 20 May 2004 07:42:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KDg30Y013152 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 07:42:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.179] (pm5-179.eos.net [205.133.149.179]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KDfqvD008561 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:41:57 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:40:37 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200405190503.i4J53i8N088377@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: colonial house X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 5/19/04 1:03 AM, Sue wrote: > You're right, though, to remind us that there's a lot of editing going > on with these things--I wonder what it's like to be a participant in one > of these shows, and then see how it's portrayed to everyone else! > --sue My husband asked me to tell all the European, Australian, and other non-Americans on this list that all Americans are NOT like the people on Colonial House. He is as disgusted with them as I am. My impression is that the producers told these people to act the way they would today if someone told them they had to go to church, or do anything they don't like. Obviously no one told them to imagine they were real New Englanders. In the part I saw, the Voorhees woman mused about whether or not she would have stood up for her convictions back in 1628. The obvious answer is yes -- and her convictions would have been Puritan, or she wouldn't have been there. No one told them to wear the clothes the way people really would have worn them. No one told the servants to behave like servants. No one told them to do what the governor said. The show is the most worthless of all the "house" shows I've seen. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 09:44:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KDiJRM030435 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:44:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KDhfNX008763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 07:43:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KDhe0Y013994; Thu, 20 May 2004 07:43:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20211.mail.yahoo.com (web20211.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4KDhc0Y013969 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 07:43:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040520134338.83541.qmail@web20211.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20211.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 May 2004 06:43:38 PDT Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 06:43:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Kessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000201c43e4f$c5baaae0$2891d6cb@ewalpole> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > the whole wearing just corsets > was something I noticed > about Frontier house, > the UK series the Edwardian > country house, It certainly > didn't have costuming slip ups, (but then again it's > a very different > environment being part of an upper class household > where propriety is so > vitally important compared to being a pioneer type > out in the middle of > nowhere) I haven't studied frontier living, but it would seem to me that propriety would also be very important there, if for different reasons. They were trying to impose "order" on the wilderness. They were civilized people, and it would seem to me that they would cling to what trappings of civilization they could, to distinguish themselves from the "wild Indians," and have some feeling that they were succeeding in making this a place fit for people to live in. When you're sick, get dressed and brush your hair, and you feel better. If I thought I were better than a bunch of wild heathens, I certainly would not run around in my underwear, to prove it. Is this just a modern interpretation that's totally off-base, or does anyone else think there might be something in the idea? -Angela __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 09:54:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KDs8RM030479 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:54:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KDp9NX009285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 07:51:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KDp70Y018184; Thu, 20 May 2004 07:51:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KDp50Y018163 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 07:51:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a229.in-tch.com [66.62.107.29]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4KDRCe13839 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 07:27:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40ACB8A8.7000501@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 07:54:48 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series References: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> <000201c43e4f$c5baaae0$2891d6cb@ewalpole> In-Reply-To: <000201c43e4f$c5baaae0$2891d6cb@ewalpole> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, we did get Edwardian House--it's one of my favorites. I've seen it two or three times, now--my station occasionally does it as reruns, along with the Iron Age one, and one done in Canada with homesteaders. Haven't seen 1900 House or the new one done in Jane Austin's day yet, though. Local station made a fairly big deal about Pioneer House, because it was filmed locally (well, relatively locally, Montana's a big state). --sue Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > We haven't seen this yet (though if it's a success we'll probably see it in > a few months), but the whole wearing just corsets was something I noticed > about Frontier house, I also saw 1 or 2 of the girls wandering around > without their chemises under their corsets and cringed (those corsets are > going to get dirty and be hard to wash and they're going to get sunburnt > because funnily enough sunblock isn't period). On the topic of the UK/USA > divide did you get the UK series the Edwardian country house, It certainly > didn't have costuming slip ups, (but then again it's a very different > environment being part of an upper class household where propriety is so > vitally important compared to being a pioneer type out in the middle of > nowhere) but still there seemed to be quite unrealistic expectations on the > part of several of the servants especially the 1st (I think they went > through 3) scullery maid. No you don't sound too cynical, though an Indian > attack or an outbreak of cholera etc (smallpox might be a bit hard to get > hold of but contaminated water is always a good source of disease) would be > interesting to see *g*. after all they are trying to entertain people, it's > the same with most 'reality TV' conflict or hardship gets people much more > interested than everybody getting along fine, and of course if they wanted > to get pictures of people acting like this was ordinary everyday life they > would film people in their ordinary everyday life. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 09:55:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KDtgRM030487 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:55:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KDrpNX009494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 07:53:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KDro0Y019619; Thu, 20 May 2004 07:53:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KDrm0Y019599 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 07:53:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a229.in-tch.com [66.62.107.29]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4KDTte14883 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 07:29:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40ACB94C.5020607@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 07:57:32 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with hat documentation References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Uhm...what time period are you trying to document the hat to? A wire would be appropriate for some hats, and not for others.... --sue, working on her own knitted/felted hat Julie wrote: > Help > > I've made a gorgeous hat and can't document the use of a metal wire (or > anything else) in the brim to strengthen it. Can anyone point me in the > right direction? I need to get this turn in for points within a couple of > weeks. The had is hand carded, hand spun, hand knit (circular) and then > hand felted! Last time out I lost points for not documenting the wire. > > Thanks > Julie > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 09:59:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KDxERM030514 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:59:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KDwbNX009849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 07:58:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KDwa0Y022268; Thu, 20 May 2004 07:58:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14005.mail.yahoo.com (web14005.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4KDwX0Y022231 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 07:58:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040520135833.94607.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.2.27.21] by web14005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:58:33 BST Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:58:33 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <40AC0B58.4060609@oldwaylane.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 15TH CENTURY ITALY X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We watched Romeo & Juliet last night during our sewing circle. This is the one from 1968. Overall I think they did a good job with the men's costumes. I am definitely going to have to watch this again over the weekend. My favorite dress was the one worn by Juliet's mother for the party. This is the first time I've seen this movie since 1973-74. Obviously my perspective is quite different. Catalina ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 10:02:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KE2oRM030532 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:02:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KE2ENX010123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 08:02:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KE2C0Y024413; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:02:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14001.mail.yahoo.com (web14001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4KE280Y024374 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:02:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040520140207.13832.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.2.27.21] by web14001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:02:07 BST Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:02:07 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material- paned vs slashed To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4.1.20040519161323.02110100@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The paned sleeves, rather than slashed, appear to be rather common in Spanish garments. But they are not exclusively paned. A lot of these portraits you have to see something larger than an online version to see the difference. Catalina --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >There are also a number of Spanish portraits that > show bound slashes. The > >one that comes to mind is a woman with the Spanish > round sleeves so slashed > >that it was just a series of giant loopy things. I > think they were red > >bound in a gold coloured fabric of the same type as > the gown... > > I thought she meant slashed, as in cut, rather than > paned, which often have > finished edges. The cut-edged slashed items don't > usually have binding > around the edges, where the paned ones often do. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 10:14:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KEEVRM030565 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:14:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEDmNX011024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 08:13:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEDl0Y030790; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:13:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20205.mail.yahoo.com (web20205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4KEDj0Y030774 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:13:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040520141344.15023.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 May 2004 07:13:44 PDT Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 07:13:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Kessler To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: colonial house X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A clothing quiz! https://www.wgbh.org/support/plimoth_garments __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 10:19:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KEJpRM030583 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:19:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEGrNX011228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 08:16:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEGo0Y032600; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:16:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEGm0Y032542 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:16:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id ADCD510B009A; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:16:45 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.113]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 20 May 2004 10:16:45 -0400 Message-ID: <000901c43e75$ec4299e0$715183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with hat documentation Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:22:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2004 14:16:45.0549 (UTC) FILETIME=[14DF49D0:01C43E75] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julie, what is the period of your hat? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 4:52 PM Subject: [h-cost] help with hat documentation > Help > > I've made a gorgeous hat and can't document the use of a metal wire (or > anything else) in the brim to strengthen it. Can anyone point me in the > right direction? I need to get this turn in for points within a couple of > weeks. The had is hand carded, hand spun, hand knit (circular) and then > hand felted! Last time out I lost points for not documenting the wire. > > Thanks > Julie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 10:22:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KEMPRM030600 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:22:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEKQNX011580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 08:20:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEKO0Y034716; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:20:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEHM0Y032853 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:17:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.118.331291e2 (3699) for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:17:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <118.331291e2.2dde17e8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:17:12 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/20/04 8:44:09 AM Central Daylight Time, ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com writes: Is this just a modern interpretation that's totally off-base, or does anyone else think there might be something in the idea? -Angela ROFL! I think you made *excellent* points. There was a GREAT deal of pride in the colonists, and a huge amount of conviction. To imagine (as some of the cast on the show seems to) that they were a bunch of slackers who came over here so they could sit around in their underoos and pretend society didn't have any rules, is just absurd. I don't know how you get that across to anyone, though. There's so little that is actually considered taboo anymore in our modern society, other than actually having a negative opinion (otherwise known as the dreaded "judging") about anyone else's behavior. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 10:25:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KEPZRM030672 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:25:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEP1NX012134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 08:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEOx0Y037758; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:24:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEOv0Y037676 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:24:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Jerankin435@cs.com) Received: from Jerankin435@cs.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.12e.42250772 (3996) for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:24:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Jerankin435@cs.com Message-ID: <12e.42250772.2dde19a7@cs.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:24:39 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 32-bit sub 103 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/20/2004 6:42:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: << In the part I saw, the Voorhees woman mused about whether or not she would have stood up for her convictions back in 1628. The obvious answer is yes -- and her convictions would have been Puritan, or she wouldn't have been there. >> With all due respect, even back in 1628, just because people had been raised in a Puritan society did not necessarily mean that all persons living in that community held the same convictions -that's what the stocks were for - It's also one of the reasons the other colonies were formed. Jane _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 10:32:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KEW3RM030712 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:32:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KETuNX012538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 08:29:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KETt0Y040732; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:29:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KETb0Y040549 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:29:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A0D1110000AC; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:29:37 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.113]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 20 May 2004 10:29:36 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c43e77$b914e080$715183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:35:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2004 14:29:37.0209 (UTC) FILETIME=[E0D14290:01C43E76] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Laundry/ Colonial series X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4KEW3RM030712 Status: RO It has occurred to me that in this remote colony that the washing of clothes would not have been a 'cottage chore'. That is, that the laundry would have been taken to the water and not vis a vis. And without a cooper, where would they have come by a tub. I suspect that cordage would not be plentiful enough to allow for a clothes line. And what of the soap problem? As for the disheveled troop and the other problems of care for their costumes, they seem to be operating on the same premise as contemporary folk," we can always get it new at the store". For you who do encampments for extended time, like Pensic, do you deal with laundry or rather take all you will need for the time away? Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 10:41:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KEfsRM030751 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:41:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEdONX013440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 08:39:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEdL0Y046993; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:39:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEdI0Y046956 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:39:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i4KEdDVe019914 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:39:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001301c43e78$37b171b0$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001801c43e77$b914e080$715183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Laundry/ Colonial series Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:38:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *snip* For you who do encampments for extended time, like Pensic, do you deal with laundry or rather take all you will need for the time away? Kathleen I take as much as I have done and then do laundry, though not on site. Regardless of how much the water's filtered, it seems that my white stuff takes on a red tinge (loads of iron in the water). In the section where my husband camps, if the water is left to sit in a pot, after a while it rather looks like tomato soup! We camp apart--I can't do the hills anymore and he won't give up camping by the lake! :-) kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 10:52:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KEqIRM030776 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:52:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEnWNX014482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 08:49:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEnW0Y053852; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:49:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEnT0Y053799 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:49:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu (vcs077.vet.cornell.edu [128.253.111.77]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i4KEnQuA000759 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040520103258.01c0fe58@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:49:35 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: <001801c43e77$b914e080$715183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Laundry/ Colonial series X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey there... Laundry... a topic that I know a good deal about, both historical and modern. OK... at Pennsic I do laundry. Chemises, partlets, coifs, the occaisional petticoat hem. I have made my own soap of oak ashes and pork fat, not a chore I plan to do with any regularity. When I wash I usually am doing small items, so one bucket of a fairly strong soap solution in water (I don't use the ground water - too much iron) is where I start, soak the items for the morning. Then using a board and a beater I place the garments on the board and force the soapy water out... and dunk, and force more soapy water through it... repeat. Rinse (sometimes yes, sometimes no) Then wring. If I need a laundry line I usually have one along one edge of our long communal tent. But I prefer to lay things out on the fields to air and bleach. Gotta walk a long way from the roads (dust) and make sure the field isn't scheduled for anything else that day... (feet, arrows... ) Try to place the cleaned items out about 11am and let them go until about 3 or 4 pm... Turning once... and that's it. Bridgette >It has occurred to me that in this remote colony that the washing of >clothes would not have been a 'cottage chore'. That is, that the laundry >would have been taken to the water and not vis a vis. And without a >cooper, where would they have come by a tub. I suspect that cordage would >not be plentiful enough to allow for a clothes line. And what of the soap >problem? >As for the disheveled troop and the other problems of care for their >costumes, they seem to be operating on the same premise as contemporary >folk," we can always get it new at the store". >For you who do encampments for extended time, like Pensic, do you deal >with laundry or rather take all you will need for the time away? >Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 10:52:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KEqYRM030781 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:52:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEpiNX014723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 08:51:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEph0Y055527; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:51:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEpc0Y055398 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:51:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from 39jz301 ([69.195.101.238]) by fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040520144923.HPVY397914.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:49:23 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c43e79$f46d1150$ee65c345@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <12e.42250772.2dde19a7@cs.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:51:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [69.195.101.238] using ID at Thu, 20 May 2004 10:49:23 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > With all due respect, even back in 1628, just because people had been raised > in a Puritan society did not necessarily mean that all persons living in that > community held the same convictions -that's what the stocks were for - It's > also one of the reasons the other colonies were formed. Yes, but the chances she would have gotten on a boat with a lot of Puritans to escape religious persecution would have been slight. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 10:58:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KEwZRM030811 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:58:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEvrNX015269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 08:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEvo0Y059844; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:57:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav2.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEvm0Y059751 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:57:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 20 May 2004 07:57:42 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.26 by bay1-dav2.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:57:41 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.26] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001801c43e77$b914e080$715183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Laundry/ Colonial series Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:57:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2004 14:57:42.0305 (UTC) FILETIME=[CD368110:01C43E7A] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For camping at places like Pennsic thank goodness there are washers and dryers. But if all else fails don't underestimate the power of beating clothes on rocks. ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:35 AM Subject: [h-cost] Laundry/ Colonial series It has occurred to me that in this remote colony that the washing of clothes would not have been a 'cottage chore'. That is, that the laundry would have been taken to the water and not vis a vis. And without a cooper, where would they have come by a tub. I suspect that cordage would not be plentiful enough to allow for a clothes line. And what of the soap problem? As for the disheveled troop and the other problems of care for their costumes, they seem to be operating on the same premise as contemporary folk," we can always get it new at the store". For you who do encampments for extended time, like Pensic, do you deal with laundry or rather take all you will need for the time away? Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 11:04:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KF42RM030848 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:04:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KF15Nv015659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 09:03:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEj30Y050772; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:45:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KEj10Y050724 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:45:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ff5.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.245]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DE5575EE023 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 16:44:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <008b01c43e79$0796ba20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:45:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] finished bodice foundation X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4KF42RM030848 Status: RO Hi, Now i have finished the bodice foundation. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/estrup2.htm I think this was the hardest to do. Now i must drape the bodice with some beautifull seams. And make the pannier. Made 15 lacingholes at the center backs. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 11:13:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KFD7RM030897 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:13:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFCLNX016629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 09:12:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFBH0Y069756; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:11:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.228]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFBD0Y069702 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:11:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.57.6.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.57.6] helo=HELENPINTO) by mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BQpCT-0004ff-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:11:13 -0700 Message-ID: <003001c43e7c$aecc2de0$06399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com><000201c43e4f$c5baaae0$2891d6cb@ewalpole> <40ACB8A8.7000501@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:11:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef899340164d0b3a62cf03de9b078ffd07350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Several people on the list have mentioned an Iron Age show; I don't remember it showing in tthe NYC or Pittsburgh markets. I searched the PBS website for it and haven't found a hit yet. Does anyone have the actual name of the program? It might help me find info on it. Thanks, \ -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 11:19:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KFJ4RM030941 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:19:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFHQNX017184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 09:17:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFGO0Y073535; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:16:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20208.mail.yahoo.com (web20208.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4KFDu0Y071596 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:13:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040520151354.15653.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:13:54 PDT Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:13:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Kessler To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001701c43e79$f46d1150$ee65c345@39jz301> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: [h-cost] opinions on PACC? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is there anyone here who sews professionally who is, or has been, or has looked into it and chosen not to be, a member of the Professional Association of Custom Clothiers? (http://www.paccprofessionals.org/) I'm trying to evaluate whether it would be of value for me to join, and would love to hear others' opinions. Thanks -Angela __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 11:21:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KFLpRM030955 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:21:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFLANX017732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 09:21:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFL70Y077417; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:21:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFJn0Z076067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:19:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4KFXurp009487 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:33:58 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040520081818.029b7e90@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:19:40 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: colonial house In-Reply-To: <004801c43e1b$cde39620$0db00040@softwareinnovation.com> References: <92.b70d4ee.2ddd769c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO As I remember, homosexuality was a burning-at-the-stake offense in those days. Katie >I actually thought this about the whole homosexual issue. For pete's >sake, >can we have just one show anymore where we aren't tripping over >someone's >sexual preference? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 11:23:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KFN2RM030965 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:23:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFMJNX017928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 09:22:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFMI0Y078308; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:22:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFKP0Y076799 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:20:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA10796 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:20:17 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:20:16 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <12e.42250772.2dde19a7@cs.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO << In the part I saw, the Voorhees woman mused about whether or not she would have stood up for her convictions back in 1628. The obvious answer is yes -- and her convictions would have been Puritan, or she wouldn't have been there. >> Her convictions would not have necessarily been "Puritan"(actually the term at the time was "Brownist", I think). Among the original "Pilgrims" were the "Strangers", those that weren't dissenters from the Church of England but were desparate enough to try to get a better life to take the hazardous chance of settling in a new and distant land, as very possibly, the plan all along, was to not to settle near the Virginia colony, but someplace more distant(although I believe the Mayflower got blown much further off course than the colonists had wanted). The model for dissention by a woman(actually she was pushing for reform as she saw it)was Anne Hutchinson, almost a decade later, in Boston. Watching the series(for costumes first!)one really gets the sense of why it was so important not to slack off, why what we would term "dress code" was enforced, and why single persons of age to be married, like the young men in this series, weren't really permitted to live without the supervision of a master or mistress, usually under said master or mistress's roof. The single men in this series really needed someone to cook, clean and make sure their clothing(if not their "spiritual welfare)was kept in order. Cindy Abel With all due respect, even back in 1628, just because people had been raised in a Puritan society did not necessarily mean that all persons living in that community held the same convictions -that's what the stocks were for - It's also one of the reasons the other colonies were formed. Jane _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 11:23:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KFN9RM030968 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:23:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFMCNX017908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 09:22:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFMA0Y078203; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:22:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFJv0Y076121 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:19:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce ([64.0.176.13]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 20 May 2004 10:19:45 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:20:05 -0500 Message-ID: <001601c43e7d$edebe370$0db00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <001701c43e79$f46d1150$ee65c345@39jz301> Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2004 15:19:46.0080 (UTC) FILETIME=[E23E8A00:01C43E7D] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO With all the commentary about "Paying back their investors" I didn't think religious persecution was their main reason for being there.. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Susan Carroll-Clark Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:52 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Greetings-- > With all due respect, even back in 1628, just because people had been raised > in a Puritan society did not necessarily mean that all persons living in that > community held the same convictions -that's what the stocks were for - It's > also one of the reasons the other colonies were formed. Yes, but the chances she would have gotten on a boat with a lot of Puritans to escape religious persecution would have been slight. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 11:23:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KFNsRM030978 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:23:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFKoNX017636 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 09:20:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFKT0Y076832; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:20:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFH90Y074081 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:17:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id C12985CC79A; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:17:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0343.floodcity.net [198.93.212.89]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 660015CC790 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:17:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40ACCB79.FE19CAA4@floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:15:05 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series References: <20040520134338.83541.qmail@web20211.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Angela Kessler wrote: > > I haven't studied frontier living, but it would seem > to me that propriety would also be very important > there, if for different reasons. They were trying to > impose "order" on the wilderness. They were civilized > people, and it would seem to me that they would cling > to what trappings of civilization they could, to > distinguish themselves from the "wild Indians," and > have some feeling that they were succeeding in making > this a place fit for people to live in. When you're > sick, get dressed and brush your hair, and you feel > better. If I thought I were better than a bunch of > wild heathens, I certainly would not run around in my > underwear, to prove it. > > Is this just a modern interpretation that's totally > off-base, or does anyone else think there might be > something in the idea? > > -Angela > >From all I've read that's exactly the attitude most of the colonials took. even the pioneers took that attitude, often taking the time to set a table with table cloth and china for the evening meal. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 11:33:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KFXZRM031040 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:33:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFWrNX018916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 09:32:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFWm0Y086013; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:32:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.228]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFWl0Y086000 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:32:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.57.6.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.57.6] helo=HELENPINTO) by mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BQpXK-0003pr-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 May 2004 08:32:47 -0700 Message-ID: <006901c43e7f$b2320dd0$06399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001801c43e77$b914e080$715183d1@rmitchellras> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:32:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef40966c9bbe0f7eb1653bc1a69792cbe9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Was Laundry/ Colonial series, now long term camping X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathleen wrote: For you who do encampments for extended time, like Pensic, do you deal with laundry or rather take all you will need for the time away? The first year I came to Pennsic for more than a week, I went off-site to the laundromat. Not so good. The next year I came with enough clothes to last more than two weeks, and did my undies in woolite while I was in the shower a couple of times. I moved to the area a couple of years ago, and have the luxury of being able to make a trip home every three or four days. I exercise, get groceries, do laundry and/or bring back more appropriate clothes. It's nice. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 11:39:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KFdURM031051 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:39:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFbINX019434 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 09:37:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFbH0Y089331; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:37:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFbE0Z089277 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:37:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4KFpOrp013861 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:51:26 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040520082050.029c3258@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:37:08 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Drawstring chemise In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I respectfully disagree. I find three things interesting about this neckline 1. The drawstring is not white, but is used decoratively as well as functionally. 2. There are two drawstrings tied with bows in front of the clavicles rather than a single bow at center front. 3. That the chemise is so exposed. Now, regarding the drawstrings: If you click on the picture enough times you get a *very* enlarged image that shows much detail. Look at the bow on the right side of the picture. Look at the left-hand aiglette. Follow that cord back to the bow. Where the cord intersects the bow is a section of cord jutting to the left and disappearing into the casing. The casing opening is even rounded where the round cord enters the casing. To me this is evidence of a casing with a cord coming out of the casing and the cord (drawstring) being tied in a bow. The cord is a round cord as would be used as a drawstring. The bow looks functional rather than decorative. The drawstring is round -- definitely not a flat ribbon. The pleats are a decorative edge trimming the neckline. The pleats attach to the body of the chemise at the top of the casing. As always, my opinion. Katie At 10:17 PM 5/19/2004 +0000, you wrote: >Interesting. To me that reads clearly as stitched down gathers/pleats and >tied at the openings with black ribbons. It is clear that the black >ribbon doesn't go through a casing and there are no apparent white ribbons >or ties that would suggest gathered drawstrings to me. Just my take on it. >Danielle > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/postcard.cgi?code=628748&lang=0&action=read _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 12:04:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KG4mRM031164 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:04:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KG0DNX021985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 10:00:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFxs0Y006899; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:59:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KFxq0Y006828 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:59:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from archaeosoft1 (c-24-16-245-183.client.comcast.net[24.16.245.183]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004052015594701300538vee>; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:59:47 +0000 Message-ID: <008b01c43e83$892c8290$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> From: "Gia" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040520151354.15653.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] opinions on PACC? Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:00:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I *was* a member and, unfortunately, I didn't really get to reap all the benefits of it. The process of application requires letters of reference, and then you get a membership card (which I never did receive) and you attend 'functions' in where you can network. Networking is the key purpose of the group, if I understood it correctly. Attending the functions are at your expense, and (when I was a member) are held typically during the days. I couldn't attend those as I was also trying to work fulltime. I never did past probationary stage. I cancelled my membership because I found that in order to benefit from it, I would have had to be *far* more active in the group that I could, at that time. I'm looking at maybe trying to re-join, IF things fall into place and I can *really* start up a full-blown business sewing and crafting. Emer \ Gia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela Kessler" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:13 AM Subject: [h-cost] opinions on PACC? > Is there anyone here who sews professionally who is, > or has been, or has looked into it and chosen not to > be, a member of the Professional Association of Custom > Clothiers? (http://www.paccprofessionals.org/) I'm > trying to evaluate whether it would be of value for me > to join, and would love to hear others' opinions. > > Thanks > -Angela > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year > http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 12:18:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KGIvRM003081 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:18:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGGvNX023723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 10:16:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGFv0Y018914; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:15:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGEv0Y018167 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:14:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a236.in-tch.com [66.62.107.36]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4KFp4e21870 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:51:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40ACDA61.6020109@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:18:41 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material- paned vs slashed References: <20040520140207.13832.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040520140207.13832.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What she said! I always figured that the Bronzino of Eleanor of Toledo (the one with the black/gold/white dress) showed her with paned sleeves (i.e., sleeves made of several separate strips of fabric), but seeing one of the real portraits, it's obvious that the sleeve openings are slashes, and the edges are finished with a braid. --sue Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: > The paned sleeves, rather than slashed, appear to be > rather common in Spanish garments. But they are not > exclusively paned. A lot of these portraits you have > to see something larger than an online version to see > the difference. > > Catalina > > --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > >>There are also a number of Spanish portraits that >>show bound slashes. The >> >>>one that comes to mind is a woman with the Spanish >> >>round sleeves so slashed >> >>>that it was just a series of giant loopy things. I >> >>think they were red >> >>>bound in a gold coloured fabric of the same type as >> >>the gown... >> >>I thought she meant slashed, as in cut, rather than >>paned, which often have >>finished edges. The cut-edged slashed items don't >>usually have binding >>around the edges, where the paned ones often do. >> >> CarolynKayta Barrows >>dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian >> www.FunStuft.com >> >> //// \\\ >> ////-@@\\\ >> (((( 7 ))) >> ((( <> )))) >> ) (((((( >> /----\ /---\)) >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 12:22:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KGMBRM003100 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:22:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGKENX024183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 10:20:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGKB0Y022489; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:20:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGK60Y022418 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:20:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0036.dialsprint.net ([63.186.144.36]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BQqH5-0002lO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:20:03 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:20:46 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040520081818.029b7e90@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can't speak to this, but burning at the stake wasn't big in the New England colonies--hanging was much more popular. Here in the Fairfield area of Connecticut we hanged a couple of witches in the mid 1600s; as for sexual deviance, a little farther north a man was hanged with an interesting variety of farm animals for fornication (the animals being the fornicatees, but evidently the fact that they had had no choice didn't save them from the noose). --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer Clothing content: after Goody Knapp was hanged, several of the women of Fairfield stripped her clothes off so that they could be shown the "witch marks" on her. One woman got in BIG trouble for protesting that she saw nothing she herself didn't also have.... on 5/20/04 11:19 AM, Katie Pleasance at Katie@katiesorchids.com wrote: > As I remember, homosexuality was a burning-at-the-stake offense in those days. > > Katie > > >> I actually thought this about the whole homosexual issue. For pete's >> sake, >> can we have just one show anymore where we aren't tripping over >> someone's >> sexual preference? > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 12:28:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KGSJRM003120 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:28:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGRfNX025058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 10:27:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGRc0Y028626; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:27:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGRY0Y028581 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:27:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a236.in-tch.com [66.62.107.36]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4KG3fe28279 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:03:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40ACDD56.2020005@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:31:18 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house References: <12e.42250772.2dde19a7@cs.com> <001701c43e79$f46d1150$ee65c345@39jz301> In-Reply-To: <001701c43e79$f46d1150$ee65c345@39jz301> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is anyone besides me getting a twisted giggle out of the idea of a *Baptist* minister portraying a Puritan? Or is that too obscure a historical bit? As far as dissenters go, at least some of the "persona histories" on the website are clear that they're not there for religious reasons, but for financial gain, etc, etc. Can't remember if this was also the storyline given for the Voorhees family, but I know it was for some of the others. Historically, certainly there were some who came for religious reasons, but not most of them, despite cultural misconceptions about same in US culture. --sue Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > Greetings-- > > >>With all due respect, even back in 1628, just because people had been > > raised > >>in a Puritan society did not necessarily mean that all persons living in > > that > >>community held the same convictions -that's what the stocks were for - > > It's > >>also one of the reasons the other colonies were formed. > > > Yes, but the chances she would have gotten on a boat with a lot of Puritans > to escape religious persecution would have been slight. > > Susan > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 12:34:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KGYZRM003151 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:34:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGXJNX025623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 10:33:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGXG0Y033011; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:33:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGXD0Y032984 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:33:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id ADC921A300B6; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:33:13 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.113]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 20 May 2004 12:33:12 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c43e88$fd7b3100$715183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040520103258.01c0fe58@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Laundry/ Colonial series Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:39:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2004 16:33:12.0986 (UTC) FILETIME=[24F707A0:01C43E88] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is the sort of description I was expecting. My camping experiences have been only in the modern world...albeit at a 'primitive camp site' for about 10 weeks. The 'bigwash' we did weekly in town, but the 'smalls' were done on site in the way you have described. When I first started collecting (and reading!) Godey's, and Peterson's I was surprised that even in the 19th C that someone had the forethought to explain 'how to wash smalls', and those directions are still as it seems to have been done in the 17th C. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:49 AM Subject: [h-cost] Laundry/ Colonial series > > Hey there... Laundry... a topic that I know a good deal about, both > historical and modern. > > OK... at Pennsic I do laundry. > > Chemises, partlets, coifs, the occaisional petticoat hem. I have made my > own soap of oak ashes and pork fat, not a chore I plan to do with any > regularity. When I wash I usually am doing small items, so one bucket of > a fairly strong soap solution in water (I don't use the ground water - too > much iron) is where I start, soak the items for the morning. > > Then using a board and a beater I place the garments on the board and force > the soapy water out... and dunk, and force more soapy water through it... > repeat. Rinse (sometimes yes, sometimes no) Then wring. > > If I need a laundry line I usually have one along one edge of our long > communal tent. But I prefer to lay things out on the fields to air and > bleach. Gotta walk a long way from the roads (dust) and make sure the > field isn't scheduled for anything else that day... (feet, arrows... ) Try > to place the cleaned items out about 11am and let them go until about 3 > or 4 pm... Turning once... and that's it. > > Bridgette > > > >It has occurred to me that in this remote colony that the washing of > >clothes would not have been a 'cottage chore'. That is, that the laundry > >would have been taken to the water and not vis a vis. And without a > >cooper, where would they have come by a tub. I suspect that cordage would > >not be plentiful enough to allow for a clothes line. And what of the soap > >problem? > >As for the disheveled troop and the other problems of care for their > >costumes, they seem to be operating on the same premise as contemporary > >folk," we can always get it new at the store". > >For you who do encampments for extended time, like Pensic, do you deal > >with laundry or rather take all you will need for the time away? > >Kathleen > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 12:35:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KGZDRM003163 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:35:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGYVNX025734 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 10:34:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGYT0Y033810; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:34:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGYQ0Y033762 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:34:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AE0D21B500B6; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:34:21 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.113]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 20 May 2004 12:34:20 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c43e89$264defa0$715183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001801c43e77$b914e080$715183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Laundry/ Colonial series Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:40:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2004 16:34:21.0439 (UTC) FILETIME=[4DC420F0:01C43E88] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As still is done in some other cultures today. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Laundry/ Colonial series > For camping at places like Pennsic thank goodness there are washers and > dryers. But if all else fails don't underestimate the power of beating > clothes on rocks. > > > ============================= > http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ > http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie > ============================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > To: "H-Costume" > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:35 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Laundry/ Colonial series > > > It has occurred to me that in this remote colony that the washing of clothes > would not have been a 'cottage chore'. That is, that the laundry would have > been taken to the water and not vis a vis. And without a cooper, where would > they have come by a tub. I suspect that cordage would not be plentiful > enough to allow for a clothes line. And what of the soap problem? > As for the disheveled troop and the other problems of care for their > costumes, they seem to be operating on the same premise as contemporary > folk," we can always get it new at the store". > For you who do encampments for extended time, like Pensic, do you deal with > laundry or rather take all you will need for the time away? > Kathleen > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 12:54:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KGsbRM003284 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:54:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGroNX028139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 10:53:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGrj0Y049264; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:53:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGrf0Y049170 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:53:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i4KGrYVH016147 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:53:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005201c43e8a$fc41dbc0$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040520140207.13832.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> <40ACDA61.6020109@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material- paned vs slashed Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:53:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Really?? Not trying to be a smarty pants...truly! I didn't see that and I've seen 2 of the portraits--the one in the Detroit Museum of Art and the one at the Wallace. Granted, the one at the Wallace is 7' up on the wall...but I was able to get within inches of the one in Detroit. They still look like paned sleeves to me. What, to your eye, makes it obvious that they're slashes? Curiously, kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material- paned vs slashed > What she said! > I always figured that the Bronzino of Eleanor of Toledo (the one with > the black/gold/white dress) showed her with paned sleeves (i.e., sleeves > made of several separate strips of fabric), but seeing one of the real > portraits, it's obvious that the sleeve openings are slashes, and the > edges are finished with a braid. > --sue > > Catalina Saravia Quicedo wrote: > > The paned sleeves, rather than slashed, appear to be > > rather common in Spanish garments. But they are not > > exclusively paned. A lot of these portraits you have > > to see something larger than an online version to see > > the difference. > > > > Catalina > > > > --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > > >>There are also a number of Spanish portraits that > >>show bound slashes. The > >> > >>>one that comes to mind is a woman with the Spanish > >> > >>round sleeves so slashed > >> > >>>that it was just a series of giant loopy things. I > >> > >>think they were red > >> > >>>bound in a gold coloured fabric of the same type as > >> > >>the gown... > >> > >>I thought she meant slashed, as in cut, rather than > >>paned, which often have > >>finished edges. The cut-edged slashed items don't > >>usually have binding > >>around the edges, where the paned ones often do. > >> > >> CarolynKayta Barrows > >>dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > >> www.FunStuft.com > >> > >> //// \\\ > >> ////-@@\\\ > >> (((( 7 ))) > >> ((( <> )))) > >> ) (((((( > >> /----\ /---\)) > >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 12:57:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KGvaRM003330 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:57:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGttNX028443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 10:55:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGts0Y051139; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:55:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav19.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGs30Y049466 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:54:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:53:54 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav19.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 20 May 2004 16:53:53 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001801c43e77$b914e080$715183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Laundry/ Colonial series Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:54:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2004 16:53:54.0188 (UTC) FILETIME=[08C76CC0:01C43E8B] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > For you who do encampments for extended time, like Pensic, do you deal with laundry or rather take all you will need for the time away? Well, I DO deal with laundry... but not in a medieval way... I take it to a local laundromat :-) But even if I wanted to wash, I'd be afraid of my clothes turning orange, there's so much iron in the water at Pennsic! (I know some people have washed with no trouble, but...) I do recycle overtunics several times, and use multiple layers, and usually sleep in my undertunics, though. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 13:00:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KH0LRM003352 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:00:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGwhNX028805 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 10:58:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGwg0Y053514; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:58:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes1.whowhere.com [209.202.220.218]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4KGv70Y052098 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:57:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Thu, 20 May 2004 16:56:47 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:56:47 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.65 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This portrait I'm thinking of isn't paned. It is huge deep slashes in the sleeves since they are clearly connected along the open edge of the sleeve. Here I found a copy of it on-line: http://ladysarafina.home.att.net/lizdevalois2.JPG Cheers, Danielle >>There are also a number of Spanish portraits that show bound slashes. The >>one that comes to mind is a woman with the Spanish round sleeves so slashed >>that it was just a series of giant loopy things. I think they were red >>bound in a gold coloured fabric of the same type as the gown... > >I thought she meant slashed, as in cut, rather than paned, which often have >finished edges. The cut-edged slashed items don't usually have binding >around the edges, where the paned ones often do. > > CarolynKayta Barrows >dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 13:01:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KH1GRM003359 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:01:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KH00NX028952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 11:00:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGxO0Y054028; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:59:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav13.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KGvr0Y052705 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:57:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:57:50 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav13.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 20 May 2004 16:57:50 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040520103258.01c0fe58@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Subject: Laundry was: Re: [h-cost] Laundry/ Colonial series Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:58:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2004 16:57:50.0787 (UTC) FILETIME=[95CD9130:01C43E8B] X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have made my > own soap of oak ashes and pork fat, not a chore I plan to do with any > regularity. That's a bit off-topic for this list, but I thought you weren't supposed to use pork fat for soap? I don't remember why, though.... Or did I just get confused with the instructions for tallow candles, because the fat'll go rancid? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 13:05:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KH5BRM003383 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:05:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KH4RNX029549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 11:04:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KH4P0Y058248; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:04:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KH0w0Y055218 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:01:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA19956 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:00:57 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:00:56 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <001601c43e7d$edebe370$0db00040@softwareinnovation.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO No matter what the reason was you came over, colonial plantations were private "corporation" funded for the most part. There was always the hope that some colonists somewhere would actually strike gold, but barring that, the colonists were under pressure to repay the plantations investors with raw goods--cod, wood and beaver pelts were in big demand in England and Europe at first. This is why colonists who had paid their way over and actually were shareholders were sometimes torn between the survival of the colonists and repaying the shareholders. We can kind of equate it with the stockmarkets of today--shareholders are not only happy when demand for the goods or services the companies they invest in increase, but also when said companies also find ways to reduce the workforce that produce those goods and services while maintaining or increasing productivity. We have to remember that colonial plantations were a high-cost, high risk venture for both shareholders and the colonists, especially when the colonists weren't permitted to turn those raw goods into finished products to ship back to England even when they did have the means. The advantage always lay with the companies or government that financed the colonies and wrote the rulebook until the eventual inevitable happened: revolution, rebellion or just the plain cost of financing and enforcing one's hold on the colonial plantations wasn't profitable anymore. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Betsy Marshall Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:20 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: colonial house With all the commentary about "Paying back their investors" I didn't think religious persecution was their main reason for being there.. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Susan Carroll-Clark Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:52 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Greetings-- > With all due respect, even back in 1628, just because people had been raised > in a Puritan society did not necessarily mean that all persons living in that > community held the same convictions -that's what the stocks were for - It's > also one of the reasons the other colonies were formed. Yes, but the chances she would have gotten on a boat with a lot of Puritans to escape religious persecution would have been slight. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 13:05:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KH5FRM003386 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:05:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KH45NX029493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 11:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KH330Y056785; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:03:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4KH0p0Y055124 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:00:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 28323 invoked from network); 20 May 2004 17:00:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 20 May 2004 17:00:58 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1095.24.4.69.40.1085072450.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <4.1.20040518235726.01cbf880@mail.frys.com> References: <200405190412.i4J4Cr8M064304@net.indra.com> <4.1.20040518235726.01cbf880@mail.frys.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Besides couching by hand, or using the sewing machine to finish, what are >>some different ways to finish slashed material (the holes the chemise >> gets >>pulled through) for a Tudor doublet? What's the best way? > > Cut them on the bias and don't finish them at all. The will frizz a > little, but I had the chance to look at a Bronzino painting in the > Metropolitan Museum, with slashed fabric, and under the guy's arm, where > you could get a side vies of the slashed, they had frizzed! Don't finish > the edges - Bronzino says so. Janet Arnold agrees, according to some of > the illustrations in the Patterns of Fashion Ren. volume. I agree with this wholeheartedly!! As long as your fabric is tightly woven or felted, you will get very little fraying if you place the slashes on the bias. However, if you REALLY want to finish the edges, I suggest "Fray Block". It is like Fray Check but you almost can't tell it is there after it dries. It doesn't leave a residue and it is not stiff like Fray Check. I have heard people say that something like this was used in the Renaissance that maybe was made with fish oil and/or wax or something like that. So if they used a sealant back then, why can't we use one now? Good luck! Diana -- Diana Habra www.renaissancefabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 13:09:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KH9oRM003402 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:09:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KH7pNX000141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 11:07:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KH7o0Y061224; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:07:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KH7k0Y061163 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:07:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0036.dialsprint.net ([63.186.144.36]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BQr1E-0004F5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:07:45 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:08:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <118.331291e2.2dde17e8@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There may also be some fundamental stupidity in the mix. Several years ago I was in a community-theater production of Playboy of the Western World. The volunteer first-time costumes mistress didn't show up at production meetings or rehearsals until the rehearsal immediately before the scheduled DRESS rehearsal; by that time the cast had pretty much scrounged costumes for themselves. When she did appear she told us we had the costumes all wrong: "These people are supposed to be POOR! Your costumes should be ragged and dirty and wrinkled!" That might have been the same thing going on in a production of Dancing at Lughnasa I saw--all the women's costumes were grubby and wrinkled, in spite of the fact that one character IRONS CLOTHES for almost the whole first act. Why anyone would make the assumption that people without money choose to wallow around in unmended and unwashed garments I can't say, except that it fits in with a lot of other ignorant assumptions about people without money. In my own experience--or is it "in my day"? ;} --the less money the more effort to look presentable and proper.... Anyway. I got in a big fight with the Playboy costumer (and won! good for me!). But I wonder if the Colonial House residents aren't assuming that since these colonists were not upper-class their clothes, too, "should be ragged and dirty and wrinkled." Just a thought-- Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer (AND I launder, mend, and iron) > In a message dated 5/20/04 8:44:09 AM Central Daylight Time, > ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com writes: > Is this just a modern interpretation that's totally > off-base, or does anyone else think there might be > something in the idea? > > -Angela > > > ROFL! I think you made *excellent* points. There was a GREAT deal of pride > in the colonists, and a huge amount of conviction. To imagine (as some of the > cast on the show seems to) that they were a bunch of slackers who came over > here so they could sit around in their underoos and pretend society didn't > have > any rules, is just absurd. > > I don't know how you get that across to anyone, though. There's so little > that is actually considered taboo anymore in our modern society, other than > actually having a negative opinion (otherwise known as the dreaded "judging") > about anyone else's behavior. > > -Tiffany > Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. > ******************************* > Reflections*of*Worth > http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 13:15:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KHFJRM003424 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:15:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KHDHNX000692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 11:13:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KHDE0Y065712; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:13:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50702.mail.yahoo.com (web50702.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4KHDA0Y065600 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:13:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20040520171305.22800.qmail@web50702.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.49.146.76] by web50702.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:13:05 EDT Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:13:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405201537.i4KFbe0Y089606@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Drawstring chemise X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Katie wrote: 2. There are two drawstrings tied with bows in front of the clavicles rather than a single bow at center front. I wrote: Since there are two of them, it suggests to me that it *could* be for nursing. That is just the right spot to allow the chemise to drop without having the whole neckline come apart. 3. That the chemise is so exposed. I wrote: Not uncommon during this period. Look at these ones, the exposure in question is relative: http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/CARIANISeduction.JPG http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/LadyInGreen.JPG http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/VenetianLovers.JPG I do think that there *could* be some representation going on in these as well, although purely speculative on my part. Two out of three of these paintings are entitled something romantic or related topics. The Lady in Green seems staged to me, in that her bodice was intentionally opened, very possibly the same for the dress being discussed. Her hand lays across the opening, suggesting she might be holding it closed. What it is trying to tell us, your guess is as good as mine. I just see a possible reoccuring theme. Now, regarding the drawstrings: If you click on the picture enough times you get a *very* enlarged image that shows much detail. Look at the bow on the right side of the picture. Look at the left-hand aiglette. Follow that cord back to the bow. Where the cord intersects the bow is a section of cord jutting to the left and disappearing into the casing. The casing opening is even rounded where the round cord enters the casing. To me this is evidence of a casing with a cord coming out of the casing and the cord (drawstring) being tied in a bow. The cord is a round cord as would be used as a drawstring. The bow looks functional rather than decorative. I wrote: You have a point, but I'll follow my asserted theory here for a moment. The majority of the neckline is set gathers, but to allow full freedom of movement, the centre front section is cased with a functional cord. This could account for it appearing to disappear on one side, yet not on the other. Most fully fuctional drawstrings would sag open more than this one, and it is in an area of high movement and therefore stress, the opening would tend to want to sag back from the bow, yet this one isn't, telling me that something is anchored into place. Since the fabric meets under the bow rather than showing a bit of skin, I would also suggest there is a hook and eye or other such closure holding the seams together. I'm not even totally convinced of this at this point, since the fabric would want to slide in toward the lowest point in the centre of the cord, yet the gathering remains consistent from left to right. Grant you, the sitter will not move much, and the artist ! likely placed every pleat and gather ideally, rather than creating an exact image of reality. The drawstring is round -- definitely not a flat ribbon. The pleats are a decorative edge trimming the neckline. The pleats attach to the body of the chemise at the top of the casing. I agree with you on all these points. That would be the only way to keep the gathers at the neckline consistent. Kathy --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 13:42:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KHguRM003685 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:42:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KHfqNX003442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 11:41:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KHfk0Y088330; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:41:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KHfe0Y088207 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:41:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Jerankin435@cs.com) Received: from Jerankin435@cs.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1d1.2166a007 (18403) for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:41:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Jerankin435@cs.com Message-ID: <1d1.2166a007.2dde47c9@cs.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:41:29 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 32-bit sub 122 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/20/2004 7:52:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, nicolaa@rogers.com writes: << reetings-- > With all due respect, even back in 1628, just because people had been raised > in a Puritan society did not necessarily mean that all persons living in that > community held the same convictions -that's what the stocks were for - It's > also one of the reasons the other colonies were formed. Yes, but the chances she would have gotten on a boat with a lot of Puritans to escape religious persecution would have been slight. Susan >> Slight, maybe, but the chance still would have been there and many people who "got on a boat to escape religious persecution" found the persecution just as bad or worse after they got here - otherwise, we'd be Puritans today. And not everyone who came over at that time was a Puritan - many were, yes, but not necessarily all, so no one - no matter how good his or her research is - can say for sure what every single person of that time period was thinking. Jane _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 14:04:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KI4dRM003809 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:04:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KI2gNX006054 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 12:02:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KI2e0Y039312; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:02:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80503.mail.yahoo.com (web80503.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4KI0w0Y037750 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:00:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040520180052.96965.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.104.228.236] by web80503.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:00:52 PDT Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:00:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405201537.i4KFbe0Z089606@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: colonial house X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Betsy Marshall wrote: > With all the commentary about "Paying back their > investors" I didn't > think religious persecution was their main reason > for being there.. I also got that impression. Admittedly, I'm dredging this from way deep in that filing cabinet between my ears, but I seem to remember that many of the colonies established in the New England area were established by groups interested in pursuing religious beliefs different than the one proposed by the CofE (Plymouth, Salem), while many of the ones in the more temperate mid-Atlantic were interested in economic goals (Jamestown). There are, of course, exceptions to every rule: Rhode Island was started by people interested in pursuing religious beliefs different from those of the Mass. colony, while Delaware (IIRC) allowed Catholics to worship openly, and James Oglethorpe was instrumental in establishing Georgia as a haven for those escaping debtors' prisons. Having seen the first 2 hours (and being so disgusted I threw the tape with the 2nd 2 hours down the stairs), I take back any nice things I said about the guys from the UK; they don't appear to have any more clue about this than the Americans involved. I've also fired off a rather "terse" (read: nasty) e-mail to the producer that this is nothing more than Survivor in funny clothes, and perhaps she should consider reading the comments on different reenactment-related lists before attempting a third series of this type. If you wish to give her the benefit of your recommendations, there is an e-mail link through the series Web page at PBS's Web site. Perhaps, with enough people grousing, she might get a clue...or am I being optomistic? Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 14:17:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KIHKRM004303 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:17:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KIGANX007778 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 12:16:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KIG70Y050851; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:16:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KIEd0Y049538 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:14:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19245 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:16:08 -0500 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:16:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Drawstring chemise In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040520082050.029c3258@mail.katiesorchids.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-COLLEGEOFNEWCALEDONIA-Metrics: .com 1201; bulk Body=2 Fuz1=many Fuz2=many Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Thu, 20 May 2004, Katie Pleasance wrote: > If you click on the picture enough times you get a *very* enlarged > image that shows much detail. Look at the bow on the right side of the > picture. Look at the left-hand aiglette. Follow that cord back to the > bow. Where the cord intersects the bow is a section of cord jutting to > the left and disappearing into the casing. The casing opening is even > rounded where the round cord enters the casing. To me this is evidence > of a casing with a cord coming out of the casing and the cord > (drawstring) being tied in a bow. The cord is a round cord as would be > used as a drawstring. The bow looks functional rather than decorative. This isn't my period, but I've learned to look for multiple possibilities, and I'm pretty suspicious of drawstrings at this date. I do agree that the bow is functional. And it's also clear that the chemise edge breaks at the point of the bow, so it's discontinuous there. But it's also worth noting that the aiglettes would never pass through the tiny channel that runs along the top edge of the chemise, below the ruffled bit. It's possible that it's a drawstring that was put in first, with the aiglettes added later. But I also wonder if the bow is made of a cord of about five or six inches long, passed through an eyelet on each side of the break at neck edge. Such fastenings (IIRC) appear on Elizabethan shirts, or so I remember reading on this list. It's also worth noting that the bows are placed perfectly for nursing openings, meaning we might be looking at a means of closing slits that run vertically down from the bow points. The fullness of the chemise would keep the slits from opening up in the space between dress and neckline. Not a proof, just another point to consider. > The pleats are a decorative edge trimming the neckline. The pleats > attach to the body of the chemise at the top of the casing. Why do you think that? I would think that such an attachment would add quite a bit of bulk in the seam, which I'm not seeing. The ruffled bit could just as easily be the top part of the chemise fabric whether you're assuming a casing or not, particularly if the casing is made by putting a ribbon along the back of the fabric and stitching top and bottom to form a channel. But I think it still looks more like two lines of stitching holding the chemise pleats in place. Remember also that the artist would paint his impression of the look, meaning we probably won't see individual stitches if they are very small. It also means he may not have had the remotest idea of how the bow was fastened in, but only painted what he saw -- the bow interrupting the line of the chemise top and disappearing into the chemise fabric at each side. --Robin > > As always, my opinion. > > Katie > > At 10:17 PM 5/19/2004 +0000, you wrote: > >Interesting. To me that reads clearly as stitched down gathers/pleats and > >tied at the openings with black ribbons. It is clear that the black > >ribbon doesn't go through a casing and there are no apparent white ribbons > >or ties that would suggest gathered drawstrings to me. Just my take on it. > >Danielle > > > > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/postcard.cgi?code=628748&lang=0&action=read > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ========================================================== Robin Netherton // Editor at Large robin@nightowl.net voice: (314) 439-1222 // fax: (314) 439-1333 Life is just a bowl of queries. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 14:25:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KIPSRM004657 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:25:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KIMNNX008504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 12:22:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KIML0Y055999; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:22:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KIMB0Y055881 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:22:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA06777 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:22:06 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:22:06 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <1d1.2166a007.2dde47c9@cs.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, James I didn't just want to drive Puritans either into conformity with the Anglican Church or out of the country--it was anyone who didn't conform to the AC. I thought it was pretty good of the governor's daughter(the one that lost her fiance in real life)seemed to make more of an effort to dress neatly, unlike the lay preacher's wife who always had the straps of her stays hanging every which way. And am I the only one who thinks the coifs of the females in Colonial House not adequate to properly cover their hair(this of course, I observed right off the bat after comparing CH to the much more authentic female headgear in Girl With a Pearl Earring on my DVD)? Also were the members of Colonial House alloted the same wardrobe as those listed in the original provisioning inventories? Also I've been reading the book "Island at the Center of the World" about the settling of New Amsterdam(later New York) There is a brief mention that most of the English religious dissenters who settled in Leyden, Holland remained there(very interesting!)--did a few migrate to New Amsterdam later. This is contrary to U.S. history that infers that most of the Leyden group came to America. Would make an interesting history--those that stayed behind in Holland. What became of them and what did they contribute? Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 14:28:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KIS6RM004732 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:28:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KIRHNX009038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 12:27:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KIRG0Y059744; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:27:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KIRE0Z059715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:27:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4KIfRrp029295 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:41:29 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040520111847.02997438@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:27:09 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house In-Reply-To: <1d1.2166a007.2dde47c9@cs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Massachusets was founded by Puritans. Pennsylvania was founded by a Quaker, Maryland was founded by a Catholic lord escaping Protestant persecution of the Catholics. Virginia was founded by investors and populated to a great degree with convict transportees. Rhode Island was (I believe) founded by Unitarians. Each colony had a personality very different from every other colony. So, the question is -- *which* personality is the show purportedly representing? Jamestown was ***very*** different from Boston! Katie > > did not necessarily mean that all persons living in > that > > community held the same convictions - that's what the stocks were for - > It's > > also one of the reasons the other colonies were formed. > > Yes, but the chances she would have gotten on a boat with a lot of Puritans > to escape religious persecution would have been slight. > Susan >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 14:39:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KIdJRM004999 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:39:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KIcONX010184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 12:38:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KIcL0Y068273; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:38:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KIcI0Y068242 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:38:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 386095CC719; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:38:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0135.floodcity.net [198.93.211.135]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B25DA5CC204 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:38:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40ACFA9F.E86A6211@floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:36:15 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house References: <001601c43e7d$edebe370$0db00040@softwareinnovation.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO there were two types of colonies, if I remember right. the Plymouth rock colonists paid their own way, I believe. it was subsistance living but they didn't owe anyone a return. they went to the new world to escape persecution, and as far as I can remember, they or their friends paid their way. maybe they owed their friends a return, but I don't remember hearing anything about that. I guess a search for the documents would help clear that up. the Jamestown colonists were subsidized by a company and expected support (as well as owing a return), which is what made the abandonment of the first colony such a tragedy. but the people who made up that colony were supposed to be able to put so many pounds of trade goods on the ship to take back to England, so that they expected to be able to get rich as well, I think. anyway, that's the impression I got from the fact that so many (single men?) left their building and planting needs to chance while they searched for gold. anyway, my two cents worth, Kitty Betsy Marshall wrote: > > With all the commentary about "Paying back their investors" I didn't > think religious persecution was their main reason for being there.. > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Susan Carroll-Clark > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:52 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house > > Greetings-- > > > With all due respect, even back in 1628, just because people had been > raised > > in a Puritan society did not necessarily mean that all persons living > in > that > > community held the same convictions -that's what the stocks were for > - > It's > > also one of the reasons the other colonies were formed. > > Yes, but the chances she would have gotten on a boat with a lot of > Puritans > to escape religious persecution would have been slight. > > Susan > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 14:44:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KIiXRM005084 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:44:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KIhqNX010802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 12:43:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KIhm0Y072485; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:43:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav36.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KIhg0Y072352 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:43:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:43:37 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.95 by bay1-dav36.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 20 May 2004 18:43:37 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.95] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:42:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2004 18:43:37.0490 (UTC) FILETIME=[5CBB9720:01C43E9A] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That was done not because of guilt on the animals part but because the animals were now tainted and no longer desirable as a food or work source. ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- > Can't speak to this, but burning at the stake wasn't big in the New England > colonies--hanging was much more popular. Here in the Fairfield area of > Connecticut we hanged a couple of witches in the mid 1600s; as for sexual > deviance, a little farther north a man was hanged with an interesting > variety of farm animals for fornication (the animals being the fornicatees, > but evidently the fact that they had had no choice didn't save them from the > noose). > --Ruth Anne Baumgartner > scholar gypsy and amateur costumer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 14:55:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KItmRM005130 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:55:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KIrhNX011866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 12:53:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KIre0Y079925; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:53:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from comet.dns-nac-zone.com (comet.dns-nac-zone.com [207.99.46.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KIrc0Z079864 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:53:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from laura@wisterian.net) Received: from bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com ([129.33.49.251] helo=r78ckbgx) by comet.dns-nac-zone.com with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BQsfT-0007hV-Pv for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 May 2004 18:53:23 +0000 From: "Irmgart H" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Drawstring chemise Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:53:51 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - comet.dns-nac-zone.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - wisterian.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It is *very* difficult to see in this image, but an image in a book I've looked at there seems to be *another* bow on her right shoulder in the back (look to the left of her necklace, there is a dark spot, in the picture in the book it looks very much like another bow). Why would this 3rd bow be there (and presumably a 4th on her left shoulder as well)? -Irmgart (who was going to stay out of this but can't stand it anymore) > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Robin Netherton > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:16 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Drawstring chemise > > > > On Thu, 20 May 2004, Katie Pleasance wrote: > > > If you click on the picture enough times you get a *very* enlarged > > image that shows much detail. Look at the bow on the right side of the > > picture. Look at the left-hand aiglette. Follow that cord back to the > > bow. Where the cord intersects the bow is a section of cord jutting to > > the left and disappearing into the casing. The casing opening is even > > rounded where the round cord enters the casing. To me this is evidence > > of a casing with a cord coming out of the casing and the cord > > (drawstring) being tied in a bow. The cord is a round cord as would be > > used as a drawstring. The bow looks functional rather than decorative. > > This isn't my period, but I've learned to look for multiple possibilities, > and I'm pretty suspicious of drawstrings at this date. > > I do agree that the bow is functional. And it's also clear that the > chemise edge breaks at the point of the bow, so it's > discontinuous there. > But it's also worth noting that the aiglettes would never pass through the > tiny channel that runs along the top edge of the chemise, below the > ruffled bit. > > It's possible that it's a drawstring that was put in first, with the > aiglettes added later. But I also wonder if the bow is made of a cord of > about five or six inches long, passed through an eyelet on each side of > the break at neck edge. Such fastenings (IIRC) appear on Elizabethan > shirts, or so I remember reading on this list. > > It's also worth noting that the bows are placed perfectly for nursing > openings, meaning we might be looking at a means of closing slits that run > vertically down from the bow points. The fullness of the chemise would > keep the slits from opening up in the space between dress and neckline. > > Not a proof, just another point to consider. > > > The pleats are a decorative edge trimming the neckline. The pleats > > attach to the body of the chemise at the top of the casing. > > Why do you think that? I would think that such an attachment would add > quite a bit of bulk in the seam, which I'm not seeing. The ruffled bit > could just as easily be the top part of the chemise fabric whether you're > assuming a casing or not, particularly if the casing is made by putting a > ribbon along the back of the fabric and stitching top and bottom to form a > channel. But I think it still looks more like two lines of stitching > holding the chemise pleats in place. > > Remember also that the artist would paint his impression of the look, > meaning we probably won't see individual stitches if they are very small. > It also means he may not have had the remotest idea of how the bow was > fastened in, but only painted what he saw -- the bow interrupting the line > of the chemise top and disappearing into the chemise fabric at each side. > > --Robin > > > > > > As always, my opinion. > > > > Katie > > > > At 10:17 PM 5/19/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > >Interesting. To me that reads clearly as stitched down > gathers/pleats and > > >tied at the openings with black ribbons. It is clear that the black > > >ribbon doesn't go through a casing and there are no apparent > white ribbons > > >or ties that would suggest gathered drawstrings to me. Just > my take on it. > > >Danielle > > > > > > > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/postcard.cgi?code=628748&lang=0&action=read > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > ========================================================== > Robin Netherton // Editor at Large > robin@nightowl.net > voice: (314) 439-1222 // fax: (314) 439-1333 > Life is just a bowl of queries. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 15:12:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KJCRRM005190 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:12:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJ9KNX013455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 13:09:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJ990Y091749; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:09:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJ960Y091711 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:09:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A251537B009A; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:09:05 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.119]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 20 May 2004 15:09:04 -0400 Message-ID: <001601c43e9e$c4230200$775183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <12e.42250772.2dde19a7@cs.com><001701c43e79$f46d1150$ee65c345@39jz301> <40ACDD56.2020005@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:15:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2004 19:09:05.0277 (UTC) FILETIME=[EB5D62D0:01C43E9D] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It has been my understanding that the Pilgrims (Plimouth) and Puritans (Boston) were not quite the same thing. Pilgrims were looking for religious freedom and Puritans ('Round heads'?) were part of a status quo who were politically approved and financially connected to Colonization. Kathleen---- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house > Is anyone besides me getting a twisted giggle out of the idea of a > *Baptist* minister portraying a Puritan? Or is that too obscure a > historical bit? > As far as dissenters go, at least some of the "persona histories" on the > website are clear that they're not there for religious reasons, but for > financial gain, etc, etc. Can't remember if this was also the storyline > given for the Voorhees family, but I know it was for some of the others. > Historically, certainly there were some who came for religious reasons, > but not most of them, despite cultural misconceptions about same in US > culture. > --sue > > Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > > > Greetings-- > > > > > >>With all due respect, even back in 1628, just because people had been > > > > raised > > > >>in a Puritan society did not necessarily mean that all persons living in > > > > that > > > >>community held the same convictions -that's what the stocks were for - > > > > It's > > > >>also one of the reasons the other colonies were formed. > > > > > > Yes, but the chances she would have gotten on a boat with a lot of Puritans > > to escape religious persecution would have been slight. > > > > Susan > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 15:14:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KJEsRM005206 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:14:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJCwNX013961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 13:12:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJCu0Y094588; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:12:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJCf0Y094377 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:12:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BQsy4-000GAv-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 May 2004 20:12:36 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 20:12:30 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series References: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> <000201c43e4f$c5baaae0$2891d6cb@ewalpole> <40ACB8A8.7000501@in-tch.com> <003001c43e7c$aecc2de0$06399b04@HELENPINTO> In-Reply-To: <003001c43e7c$aecc2de0$06399b04@HELENPINTO> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It was called (in th UK at least) "Surviving the Iron Age". It was quite short I think, maybe just a week, compared to the other series. Jean Helen Pinto wrote >Several people on the list have mentioned an Iron Age show; I don't remember >it showing in tthe NYC or Pittsburgh markets. I searched the PBS website >for it and haven't found a hit yet. >Does anyone have the actual name of the program? It might help me find info >on it. >Thanks, >\ -Helen/Aidan > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 15:15:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KJFGRM005210 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:15:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJEfNX014235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 13:14:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJEd0Y095942; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:14:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f14.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJEa0Y095834 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:14:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:14:30 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 20 May 2004 19:14:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:14:30 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2004 19:14:30.0325 (UTC) FILETIME=[AD1BC650:01C43E9E] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I feel like I should point out that most of the complaints and criticisms that people have had about the show have been discussed and explained IN the context of the program, including when people have acted inapproprately and why it was innappropriate to the experiment, and how it was handled and why. I don't expect people who haven't actually been watching the show to see this, but I'm at a loss to understand why people who HAVE been watching the shows have missed these details. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 15:17:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KJHERM005218 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:17:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJGZNX014448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 13:16:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJGY0Y097545; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:16:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJFI0Y096470 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:15:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E3114264A for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:34:40 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40AD04E8.3070407@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:20:08 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Laundry/ Colonial series References: <001801c43e77$b914e080$715183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <001801c43e77$b914e080$715183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > For you who do encampments for extended time, like Pensic, do you deal with laundry or rather take all you will need for the time away? It varies. I have been known to handwash with anti-bacterial soap on extended trips when required, and hang dry if available. I once had a 4 day weekend turn into a 14-day weekend and I discovered that most hotel staff will gladly put your wet jeans in their valet dryers after you wash them in the tub. :) At Pennsic I take enough under layers and aprons to be able to change when necessary to keep myself presentable. I also take at least one trip off site to visit relatives, wash bedding, and have a hot shower and hot meal. If I didn't have relatives I would consider doing the washing if I had a suitable location. The campground is so crowded it's either a long walk or a soggy mess in the middle of camp these days. As a teen I did real camping in the region that the colonial show is being filmed in, and we rinsed stuff in the creek and hung it on the bushes if we had to. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 15:27:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KJRBRM005266 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:27:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJNiNX015197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 13:23:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJNf0Y003206; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:23:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJNY0Y003114 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:23:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i4KJNWmH025644 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:23:32 -0400 Received: from 64.156.242.54 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:23:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1906.64.156.242.54.1085081012.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:23:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [h-cost] Drawstring chemise From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This isn't my period, but to me the chemise looks a bit sheer in a few places, and other places it looks opaque white. If it's sheer, a black drawstring would show through the gathers. But they're as white as the rest of the chemise. It could be artistic "clean up", but to me it points toward them being ties and not drawstrings. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 15:30:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KJUvRM005330 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:30:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJUENX015948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 13:30:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJUD0Y008300; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:30:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJSu0Y007116 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:28:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 1058003 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 May 2004 12:28:46 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:28:44 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Drawstring chemise From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-DCC-sgs_public_dcc_server-Metrics: net.indra.com 1199; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I noticed the bow also (it being so black against the white), but couldn't think of a reason. IF it was a drawstring, then PERHAPS the drawstrings are only on the sleeve pieces, rather than our modern use of one drawstring for the entire neckline. I have made myself longish, very simple, raglan-sleeved chemises for modern nightgowns, and I find that with one drawstring, the gathering tends to all move to the front and back, gravity being what it is, and I have to adjust it often. Gathering/pleating in the front and back and drawstrings on the sides would solve that problem nicely. I'm only guessing and throwing ideas out. I haven't researched this time period at all. LynnD On 5/20/04 11:53 AM, "Irmgart H" wrote: > It is *very* difficult to see in this image, but an image in a book I've > looked at there seems to be *another* bow on her right shoulder in the back > (look to the left of her necklace, there is a dark spot, in the picture in > the book it looks very much like another bow). Why would this 3rd bow be > there (and presumably a 4th on her left shoulder as well)? > > -Irmgart (who was going to stay out of this but can't stand it anymore) > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On >> Behalf Of Robin Netherton >> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:16 PM >> To: Historical Costume >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Drawstring chemise >> >> >> >> On Thu, 20 May 2004, Katie Pleasance wrote: >> >>> If you click on the picture enough times you get a *very* enlarged >>> image that shows much detail. Look at the bow on the right side of the >>> picture. Look at the left-hand aiglette. Follow that cord back to the >>> bow. Where the cord intersects the bow is a section of cord jutting to >>> the left and disappearing into the casing. The casing opening is even >>> rounded where the round cord enters the casing. To me this is evidence >>> of a casing with a cord coming out of the casing and the cord >>> (drawstring) being tied in a bow. The cord is a round cord as would be >>> used as a drawstring. The bow looks functional rather than decorative. >> >> This isn't my period, but I've learned to look for multiple possibilities, >> and I'm pretty suspicious of drawstrings at this date. >> >> I do agree that the bow is functional. And it's also clear that the >> chemise edge breaks at the point of the bow, so it's >> discontinuous there. >> But it's also worth noting that the aiglettes would never pass through the >> tiny channel that runs along the top edge of the chemise, below the >> ruffled bit. >> >> It's possible that it's a drawstring that was put in first, with the >> aiglettes added later. But I also wonder if the bow is made of a cord of >> about five or six inches long, passed through an eyelet on each side of >> the break at neck edge. Such fastenings (IIRC) appear on Elizabethan >> shirts, or so I remember reading on this list. >> >> It's also worth noting that the bows are placed perfectly for nursing >> openings, meaning we might be looking at a means of closing slits that run >> vertically down from the bow points. The fullness of the chemise would >> keep the slits from opening up in the space between dress and neckline. >> >> Not a proof, just another point to consider. >> >>> The pleats are a decorative edge trimming the neckline. The pleats >>> attach to the body of the chemise at the top of the casing. >> >> Why do you think that? I would think that such an attachment would add >> quite a bit of bulk in the seam, which I'm not seeing. The ruffled bit >> could just as easily be the top part of the chemise fabric whether you're >> assuming a casing or not, particularly if the casing is made by putting a >> ribbon along the back of the fabric and stitching top and bottom to form a >> channel. But I think it still looks more like two lines of stitching >> holding the chemise pleats in place. >> >> Remember also that the artist would paint his impression of the look, >> meaning we probably won't see individual stitches if they are very small. >> It also means he may not have had the remotest idea of how the bow was >> fastened in, but only painted what he saw -- the bow interrupting the line >> of the chemise top and disappearing into the chemise fabric at each side. >> >> --Robin >> >> >>> >>> As always, my opinion. >>> >>> Katie >>> >>> At 10:17 PM 5/19/2004 +0000, you wrote: >>>> Interesting. To me that reads clearly as stitched down >> gathers/pleats and >>>> tied at the openings with black ribbons. It is clear that the black >>>> ribbon doesn't go through a casing and there are no apparent >> white ribbons >>>> or ties that would suggest gathered drawstrings to me. Just >> my take on it. >>>> Danielle >>> >>> >>>> http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/postcard.cgi?code=628748&lang=0&action=read _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 15:31:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KJV0RM005336 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:31:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJSsNX015786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 13:28:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJSq0Y007124; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:28:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJSe0Y006947 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:28:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.154] (pm5-154.eos.net [205.133.149.154]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KJSWtc005266 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:28:33 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:27:26 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200405201801.i4KI1L0Z038209@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: colonial house X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jane, you're being pedantic. And I think you're completely underestimating religious fervor at the time. The Puritans weren't so much being persecuted as they were being drummed out of Europe -- because they were so unyielding, insistent, and zealous toward everyone else, not just themselves. They came here to establish the perfect society -- one of LIKE-MINDED people who were all just as fervid as they were. So yes, while in the cosmic scheme of things someone MIGHT have become a New England colonist for some other reason, it doesn't take mind-reading to figure out what was most probable in reality. Just because we live in a plural society today, when many different religious ideas (or lack of such) are socially acceptable, does not mean that in 1628 the same thing was true. Many ideas that aren't particularly "out there" today were punishable by death back then, either by courts of law or by outraged neighbors. That is a difficult concept for people today, as Colonial House demonstrates. Gail Finke > << reetings-- > >> With all due respect, even back in 1628, just because people had been > raised >> in a Puritan society did not necessarily mean that all persons living in > that >> community held the same convictions -that's what the stocks were for - > It's >> also one of the reasons the other colonies were formed. > > Yes, but the chances she would have gotten on a boat with a lot of Puritans > to escape religious persecution would have been slight. > > Susan >> > > Slight, maybe, but the chance still would have been there and many people who > "got on a boat to escape religious persecution" found the persecution just > as bad or worse after they got here - otherwise, we'd be Puritans today. And > not everyone who came over at that time was a Puritan - many were, yes, but > not > necessarily all, so no one - no matter how good his or her research is - can > say for sure what every single person of that time period was thinking. > > Jane > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 15:31:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KJV1RM005339 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:31:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJULNX015969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 13:30:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJUK0Y008408; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:30:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJT20Y007280 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:29:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A6E55447009A; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:28:37 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.119]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 20 May 2004 15:28:36 -0400 Message-ID: <003201c43ea1$7e4f4ec0$775183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:34:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2004 19:28:36.0781 (UTC) FILETIME=[A5A2B5D0:01C43EA0] X-DCC-MessageCare-Metrics: net.indra.com 1108; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am remembering one visit to the Plantation at Plimouth when I encountered a man who had been 'marooned' in the village because the ship he was on planned to return directly to England instead of going on to the colonies further west. He was biding his time until he could catch another ship 'going his way'. While in Plimouth, he was obeying the rules of mandatory attendance at Meeting although he was RC, and would rather spend the Sabbath communing with God in nature. And he was paying for his board by thatching roofs. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:22 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: colonial house > > > Well, James I didn't just want to drive Puritans either into conformity > with the Anglican Church or out of the country--it was anyone who didn't > conform to the AC. > > I thought it was pretty good of the governor's daughter(the one that lost > her fiance in real life)seemed to make more of an effort to dress neatly, > unlike the lay preacher's wife who always had the straps of her stays > hanging every which way. > > And am I the only one who thinks the coifs of the females in Colonial House > not adequate to properly cover their hair(this of course, I observed right > off the bat after comparing CH to the much more authentic female headgear in > Girl With a Pearl Earring on my DVD)? > > Also were the members of Colonial House alloted the same wardrobe as those > listed in the original provisioning inventories? > > Also I've been reading the book "Island at the Center of the World" about > the settling of New Amsterdam(later New York) There is a brief mention that > most of the English religious dissenters who settled in Leyden, Holland > remained there(very interesting!)--did a few migrate to New Amsterdam later. > This is contrary to U.S. history that infers that most of the Leyden group > came to America. > > Would make an interesting history--those that stayed behind in Holland. What > became of them and what did they contribute? > > Cindy Abel > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 15:32:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KJWIRM005365 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:32:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJUPNX015989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 13:30:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJUP0Y008470; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:30:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KJTc0Y007804 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:29:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A71F5457009A; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:29:35 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.119]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 20 May 2004 15:29:34 -0400 Message-ID: <003801c43ea1$a15e8700$775183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040520111847.02997438@mail.katiesorchids.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:35:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2004 19:29:35.0469 (UTC) FILETIME=[C89DC9D0:01C43EA0] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Roger Williams was Free Baptist! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Pleasance" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house > Massachusets was founded by Puritans. Pennsylvania was founded by a Quaker, > Maryland was founded by a Catholic lord escaping Protestant persecution of > the Catholics. Virginia was founded by investors and populated to a great > degree with convict transportees. Rhode Island was (I believe) founded by > Unitarians. > > Each colony had a personality very different from every other colony. So, > the question is -- *which* personality is the show purportedly > representing? Jamestown was ***very*** different from Boston! > > Katie > > > > did not necessarily mean that all persons living in > > that > > > community held the same convictions - that's what the stocks were or - > > It's > > > also one of the reasons the other colonies were formed. > > > > > > Yes, but the chances she would have gotten on a boat with a lot of Puritans > > to escape religious persecution would have been slight. > > Susan >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 16:21:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KKLcRM005595 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 16:21:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KKKlNX021484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 14:20:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KKKh0Y045724; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:20:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KKKg0Y045712 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:20:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-93-172.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.172]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4KKItnm013719 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040520130605.01d24cf0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:07:45 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material In-Reply-To: <1095.24.4.69.40.1085072450.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> References: <4.1.20040518235726.01cbf880@mail.frys.com> <200405190412.i4J4Cr8M064304@net.indra.com> <4.1.20040518235726.01cbf880@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had the chance to look at a Bronzino painting in the >> Metropolitan Museum, with slashed fabric, and under the guy's arm, where >> you could get a side vies of the slashed, they had frizzed! Don't finish >> the edges - Bronzino says so. Janet Arnold agrees, according to some of >> the illustrations in the Patterns of Fashion Ren. volume. > >I agree with this wholeheartedly!! The Bronzino in question is the guy who is wearing brown and has his hand on his hip. He faces to the viewer's left. Under his arm can be seen the fuzzing on the slashes in his satin doublet.. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 16:24:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KKOaRM005643 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 16:24:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KKMdNX021731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 14:22:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KKMc0Y047132; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:22:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav67.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.202]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KKMA0Y046745 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:22:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katdevereaux@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:22:03 -0700 Received: from 207.2.164.194 by bay1-dav67.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 20 May 2004 20:22:03 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [207.2.164.194] X-Originating-Email: [katdevereaux@hotmail.com] X-Sender: katdevereaux@hotmail.com From: "Katharine Devereaux" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:22:03 -0400 Message-ID: <004c01c43ea8$1d23cd90$7900000a@govolution.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2004 20:22:03.0840 (UTC) FILETIME=[1D311400:01C43EA8] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Animal Relations was Re: colonial house X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This reminds me of the opening scene in the 15th century movie, The Advocate, with Colin Firth. The town was going to hang both the animal and the man for sexual relations. At the last minute, the town minister approached the gallows and asked for the release of the animal (I think it was a cow) because the animal did not have fault and they (the townspeople) believed she still had good character. So the hangman released the animal and the man was hung. Great movie with some of the best 15th century clothing and one-liners. Kim Kimberly Hulse SCA: Katharine Devereaux Alexandria, VA -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bice Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:43 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house That was done not because of guilt on the animals part but because the animals were now tainted and no longer desirable as a food or work source. ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- > Can't speak to this, but burning at the stake wasn't big in the New England > colonies--hanging was much more popular. Here in the Fairfield area of > Connecticut we hanged a couple of witches in the mid 1600s; as for sexual > deviance, a little farther north a man was hanged with an interesting > variety of farm animals for fornication (the animals being the fornicatees, > but evidently the fact that they had had no choice didn't save them from the > noose). > --Ruth Anne Baumgartner > scholar gypsy and amateur costumer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 16:55:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KKtQRM005807 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 16:55:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KKrJNX024930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 14:53:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KKrI0Y071097; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:53:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80512.mail.yahoo.com (web80512.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4KKrG0Y070986 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:53:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040520205310.6149.qmail@web80512.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.104.228.236] by web80512.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:53:10 PDT Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:53:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Oooh! A contest! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO While I was wasting time (the students in the next classroom are so noisy I can't grade papers), I discovered that the Costumers Guild West is sponsoring a costume for Historic Costumes at the Los Angeles County Fair this year.There are 3 categories: Fantasy & Science Fiction; Historic Interpretation; and Historic Reproduction. You DO NOT have to live in Los Angeles County to enter in the LA County Fair--it's open to the world. It's $1 to enter, and top prize is a membership to Costume College and a year's membership in the CGW. Entry date is July 15, 2004 and entries have to be dropped off/delivered to the fairgrounds on Monday, August 3rd (the day after Costume College ends). For more information on this, I'm including the link:http://www.lacountyfair.com/2004/Competitions/index2.aspThen click on the Clothing & Textiles section. Also the PDF ones aren't working, but the Word files are OK, so use those.Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 16:56:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KKuWRM005811 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 16:56:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KKo1NX024381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 14:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KKmu0Y067013; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:48:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f30.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KKln0Y066205 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:47:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 20 May 2004 13:47:44 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 20 May 2004 20:47:44 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:47:44 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2004 20:47:44.0631 (UTC) FILETIME=[B3932070:01C43EAB] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: colonial house X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >--Ruth Anne Baumgartner >Can't speak to this, but burning at the stake wasn't big in the New >England colonies--hanging was much more popular. Here in the Fairfield >area of Connecticut we hanged a couple of witches in the mid 1600... Burning at the stake in England, and the English colonies, was reserved for treason against the crown. Fairfield -- hmm, that would be "Goodie" Knapp and Mary Staples, 1653. (I didn't actually start out to study clothing and shoes :) Originally my focus was on historical witchcraft trials...) Marc (who had ancestors tried in the Hartfort and New Haven trials) _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 17:00:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KL0iRM005819 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 17:00:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KKwVNX025417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 14:58:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KKwP0Y074997; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:58:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KKwN0Y074898 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:58:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.104.46ea0a5e (4468) for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 16:58:11 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <104.46ea0a5e.2dde75e3@aol.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:58:11 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Sewing and multi-tasking To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/19/2004 10:22:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, basyefelton@floodcity.net writes: > used to read and walk down the hall at the > same time, Ooooo...mind those stairs.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 17:11:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KLB9RM005836 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 17:11:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KL9uNX026645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 15:09:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KL9q0Y084120; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:09:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80502.mail.yahoo.com (web80502.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4KL9k0Y084003 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:09:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040520210941.77214.qmail@web80502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.104.228.236] by web80502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:09:41 PDT Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:09:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405201925.i4KJPE0Z004460@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House Series X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc wrote: > I feel like I should point out that most of the > complaints and criticisms > that people have had about the show have been > discussed and explained IN the > context of the program, including when people have > acted inapproprately and > why it was innappropriate to the experiment, and how > it was handled and why. > > I don't expect people who haven't actually been > watching the show to see > this, but I'm at a loss to understand why people who > HAVE been watching the > shows have missed these details. And I'm at a bit of a loss as to what you're saying, so perhaps you could elucidate. IMNSHO, most, if not all, of the complaints and criticism on this and other lists that are made up of many historical reenactors is the result of disappointment at the final product. When this was originally publicized (a little over a year ago), the producers reached out to the reenactment community, and many historical reenactors (including myself) applied. OK, so maybe I don't have the specific qualifications they were looking for. However, to find that once again, instead of creating a community to really see how life might have been like in 1628, they have instead created "Survivor: 1628 New England," dropped 17 people from the 21st Century into the situation with little more than the clothes on their backs, and then edited it to create as much "drama" as they possibly could is very disappointing for me, and I suspect, for others in the reenactment community. It comes down to this: This is not the show that was publicized when they were recruiting for it last year, and to pass it off as "educational TV" is a sham. This series would be better off on Fox, rather than PBS. Again, if I've misunderstood your comments, please elucidate. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 17:55:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KLtDRM005977 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 17:55:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KLqFNX001964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 15:52:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KLqA0Y016118; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:52:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KLq80Y016082 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:52:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9DC71D0BC for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 16:52:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p612.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.213.105]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CFF81D3E2 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 16:52:06 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:52:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tailor's X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In the 12 century, was the title "tailor" a male designation? Ex: Tailor = male sewer Seamstress + female sewer Anyone know? De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 17:56:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KLuPRM005981 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 17:56:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KLsNNX002250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 15:54:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KLsM0Y017668; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:54:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav33.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KLsK0Y017587 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:54:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 20 May 2004 14:54:13 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.26 by bay1-dav33.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 20 May 2004 21:54:13 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.26] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040520111847.02997438@mail.katiesorchids.com> <003801c43ea1$a15e8700$775183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:53:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2004 21:54:13.0710 (UTC) FILETIME=[FD4046E0:01C43EB4] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Always felt the term Free Baptist was a bit of a misnomer. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house > Roger Williams was Free Baptist! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Katie Pleasance" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:27 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house > > > > Massachusets was founded by Puritans. Pennsylvania was founded by a > Quaker, > > Maryland was founded by a Catholic lord escaping Protestant persecution of > > the Catholics. Virginia was founded by investors and populated to a great > > degree with convict transportees. Rhode Island was (I believe) founded by > > Unitarians. > > > > Each colony had a personality very different from every other colony. So, > > the question is -- *which* personality is the show purportedly > > representing? Jamestown was ***very*** different from Boston! > > > > Katie > > > > > > did not necessarily mean that all persons living in > > > that > > > > community held the same convictions - that's what the stocks were > or - > > > It's > > > > also one of the reasons the other colonies were formed. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but the chances she would have gotten on a boat with a lot of > Puritans > > > to escape religious persecution would have been slight. > > > Susan >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 17:59:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KLxkRM005986 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 17:59:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KLw7NX002710 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 15:58:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KLw30Y020418; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:58:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KLw00Y020306 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 15:58:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from 39jz301 ([69.195.101.238]) by fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040520215544.LOIA397914.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 17:55:44 -0400 Message-ID: <008e01c43eb5$8419e9f0$ee65c345@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1d1.2166a007.2dde47c9@cs.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:57:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [69.195.101.238] using ID at Thu, 20 May 2004 17:55:44 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > Slight, maybe, but the chance still would have been there and many people who > "got on a boat to escape religious persecution" found the persecution just > as bad or worse after they got here - otherwise, we'd be Puritans today. And > not everyone who came over at that time was a Puritan - many were, yes, but not > necessarily all, so no one - no matter how good his or her research is - can > say for sure what every single person of that time period was thinking. As has been pointed out earlier, most of the earlier settlements were corporations of like-minded people who decided to take the huge risk of being one of the earliest colonists in order to be part of a settlement arranged on whatever lines that particular corporation preferred. If you weren't like-minded, you probably would have never opted to join that particular voyage, but would have found another more suited to your sensibilities. I don't doubt that there were some varying attitudes to be found among these early settlers, but I don't think the spectrum was likely as wide as that to be found on the show. It's later on, as colonization moves beyond being a phenomenom of isolated outposts, that some of the original colonists' goals and vision start to be diluted. Also, the children of the original colonists, as has also been pointed out, might not share their parents' views--and so things begin to evolve. No, we can't know what every person was thinking. We *can* make educated guesses. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 18:11:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KMB8RM006050 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 18:11:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KM9BNX003800 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 16:09:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KM970Y028133; Thu, 20 May 2004 16:09:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KM960Y028039 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 16:09:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from 39jz301 ([69.195.101.238]) by fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040520220650.LQDQ397914.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 18:06:50 -0400 Message-ID: <00d501c43eb7$1155cef0$ee65c345@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <12e.42250772.2dde19a7@cs.com><001701c43e79$f46d1150$ee65c345@39jz301><40ACDD56.2020005@in-tch.com> <001601c43e9e$c4230200$775183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:09:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [69.195.101.238] using ID at Thu, 20 May 2004 18:06:50 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- The Washington Post has conducted some online discussions with some of the Colonial House participants, which were pretty interesting. Here are some links to transcripts: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27393-2004May14.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27371-2004May14.html Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 18:34:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KMYWRM006126 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 18:34:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KMWbNX005889 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 16:32:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KMWR0Y044456; Thu, 20 May 2004 16:32:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KMWP0Y044430 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 16:32:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12FBE1D32A for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 17:32:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p612.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.213.105]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D7100D3FF for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 17:32:23 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Drawstring chemise Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:32:40 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040520082050.029c3258@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The bow which is a double loop and not a singular is not going into a casing though it could be perceived as doing so. The loop is caught up in the ruffle and gap/seam opening. This is not an example of drawstring chemise. There are portraits that show several ties on a camicia. These ties have been surmised as how the camicia was adjusted instead of a draw-string. There is a portrait that I can't find right now that have the ties between all of the panels. Usually, the camicia is made of 7" wide linen panels. De -----Original Message----- I respectfully disagree. I find three things interesting about this neckline 1. The drawstring is not white, but is used decoratively as well as functionally. 2. There are two drawstrings tied with bows in front of the clavicles rather than a single bow at center front. 3. That the chemise is so exposed. Now, regarding the drawstrings: If you click on the picture enough times you get a *very* enlarged image that shows much detail. Look at the bow on the right side of the picture. Look at the left-hand aiglette. Follow that cord back to the bow. Where the cord intersects the bow is a section of cord jutting to the left and disappearing into the casing. The casing opening is even rounded where the round cord enters the casing. To me this is evidence of a casing with a cord coming out of the casing and the cord (drawstring) being tied in a bow. The cord is a round cord as would be used as a drawstring. The bow looks functional rather than decorative. The drawstring is round -- definitely not a flat ribbon. The pleats are a decorative edge trimming the neckline. The pleats attach to the body of the chemise at the top of the casing. As always, my opinion. Katie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 19:04:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KN4HRM006314 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 19:04:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KN14NX008522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 17:01:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KN0r0Y064248; Thu, 20 May 2004 17:01:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KN0o0Y064157 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 17:00:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Jerankin435@cs.com) Received: from Jerankin435@cs.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.102.45d248f9 (4222) for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 19:00:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Jerankin435@cs.com Message-ID: <102.45d248f9.2dde9295@cs.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:00:37 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 32-bit sub 122 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/20/2004 2:58:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nicolaa@rogers.com writes: << I don't doubt that there were some varying attitudes to be found among these early settlers >> This is, in fact, the exact point I was trying to make, so one cannot say that if you were a Puritan you would, of course, think like a Puritan - common sense tells you that all Puritans did not think alike, and although the intent when they started over here may have been to form some sort of "utopian society" with other like-thinking people the fact that there are (to my knowledge) no Puritans today (and there are still Quakers, and Amish, and others) tells you that at least some of them were thinking differently after they got here. What works in theory does not always work in practice. As a re-enactor you may choose to portray a character who is one of the "by-the-book" Puritans, but you are making a conscious decision to act in a certain way - playing a character, much like any other actor - this may be the reason they chose not to have re-enactors on the show - trying to get "real" reactions from so-called "real" people (if you can consider any of the people that do so-called "reality television" real people). Jane _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 19:31:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4KNVgRM006377 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 19:31:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KNTjNX010945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 17:29:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KNTe0Y081335; Thu, 20 May 2004 17:29:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4KNTa0Y081248 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 17:29:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Morses3@aol.com) Received: from Morses3@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.7d.4e93abb1 (4116) for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 19:29:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Morses3@aol.com Message-ID: <7d.4e93abb1.2dde9952@aol.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:29:22 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6025 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/20/04 3:29:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: > The Puritans weren't so much being persecuted > as they were being drummed out of Europe -- because they were so unyielding, > insistent, and zealous toward everyone else, not just themselves. They came > here to establish the perfect society -- one of LIKE-MINDED people who were > all just as fervid as they were. So yes, while in the cosmic scheme of > things someone MIGHT have become a New England colonist for some other > reason, it doesn't take mind-reading to figure out what was most probable in > reality. > Gail, While I admire your convictions about your beliefs, I suggest that a little more research might be in order to help you more fully understand the social order of the 1620's in Colonial New England. The pilgrims of Mayflower fame were separatists not necessarily what we think of now as Puritans, the big Puritan influx,came with the Great Migration in the 1630's, along with their inclusive " you're with us or you're out" attitude (which is for example why the Quakers went to Rhode Island to stop being persecuted). Even the passengers of the Mayflower were not all of the same belief and were separated into more or less two groups, the religious separatists and the people who were just looking for a better life. You also can't assume that even the most righteous couldn't fall from grace under the pressure, one of my own ancestors,Stephen Hopkins of Mayflower passenger heritage, was fined several times for not attending Sabbath services and for serving liquor in his house on Sunday, along with beating some guy senseless, suing his neighbors for gossiping about his daughter's- shall we say- "friendliness", and treating a servant girl unfairly until her father intervened. The Plymouth Court records are a veritable list of the same kind of problems we have now, unwed pregnancy, slander, theft, and lots more if you keep looking......And never forget that the Puritans with their insistent beliefs and piety, were also not afraid to make a profit and in fact viewed financial success as a measure of their reward for serving God correctly (for gratuitous costume content you could do some checking on why they chose to wear black for their formal portraits and occasions, etc to impress others with their financial ability to own clothing in a difficult to produce and maintain color......). Finally, the second and third generation descendants of the Puritan immigrants did NOT share the same beliefs, much to the dismay of their parents, there are numerous instances where this is lamented and pointed to as a great source of trouble for them, for example, the well know Cotton and Mather family sermons are filled with references to how wicked and ungodly the "young" are. Perry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 20:18:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4L0IwRM006562 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 20:18:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L0IFNX014590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 18:18:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L0ID0Y007554; Thu, 20 May 2004 18:18:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L0IA0Y007540 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 18:18:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0277.dialsprint.net ([63.186.145.23]) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BQxjl-0004O6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 May 2004 20:18:10 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 20:18:51 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i4L0IA0Y007540 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mary Staples was the one who got in trouble for doubting the "witch marks" and saying so. Roger Ludlowe accused her of witchcraft the next year, but her husband sued Ludlowe for slander (!! would that more spouses had had the guts and the wherewithal to do likewise elsewhere!). That trial was in New Haven. Ludlowe skipped the country before the verdict--went to Ireland to help Cromwell do his dirty work. Meanwhile, in I think 1692 somebody ELSE accused Mary Staples of witchcraft, and also accused her daughter and granddaughter. Once tainted.... (She got off, and so did her daughter and granddaughter. Good thing: she was an ancestor of Winston Churchill's mother, if I remember correctly!) The other witch hanged (besides Goody Knapp) was Goody Bassett, a year or two before Knapp. Her comment that "there was a witch in Fairfield who held her head full high" was taken as evidence against Knapp and then alluded to again against Staples. Thank god I didn't live then, but they must have been "interesting times"! How did your ancestors do in the trials? --Ruth Anne on 5/20/04 4:47 PM, Marc Carlson at marccarlson20@hotmail.com wrote: > Burning at the stake in England, and the English colonies, was reserved for > treason against the crown. Fairfield -- hmm, that would be "Goodie" Knapp > and Mary Staples, 1653. (I didn't actually start out to study clothing and > shoes :) Originally my focus was on historical witchcraft trials...) > > Marc (who had ancestors tried in the Hartfort and New Haven trials) > > _________________________________________________________________ > Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® > Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 20:19:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4L0JlRM006566 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 20:19:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L0JCNX014689 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 18:19:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L0JB0Y007970; Thu, 20 May 2004 18:19:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f4.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L0IQ0Y007603 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 18:18:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 20 May 2004 17:18:18 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.222 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 21 May 2004 00:18:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.222] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:18:17 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 May 2004 00:18:18.0113 (UTC) FILETIME=[1DB77F10:01C43EC9] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House Series X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Dawn Jacobson >>I feel like I should point out that most of the complaints and criticisms >>that people have had about the show have been >>discussed and explained IN the context of the program, >>including when people have acted inapproprately and why it >>was innappropriate to the experiment, and how it was handled >>and why. >>I don't expect people who haven't actually been watching the >>show to see this, but I'm at a loss to understand why people >>who HAVE been watching the shows have missed these details. >And I'm at a bit of a loss as to what you're saying, >so perhaps you could elucidate. Is there a reason you've chosen to use "elucidate" twice in your message? I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was being unclear. Let me be more explicit. On this list, I've seen a number of complaints about things that have appeared on this series, from homosexuality, costuming issues, failure to behave in a 1600s fashion, the differences between those who came over for religious reasons versus those who came over to make money and so forth. Every one of these topics has been discussed in the episodes shown so far. Now, perhaps I'm more cynical than some, but - having seen most of the other "house" programs they've produced, when they advertized this one, it never actually occured to me to assume that they were planning on making a historical documentary on life in 1620, or a living history re-enactment of the period, but rather that they were planning on putting some modern people with minimal training in situations where they would have to face the realities of life under different circumstances to illustrate and explore some of the difficulties that living in such a period might have experienced that we today generally don't have to deal with. They have adequately fulfilled these expectations, AND successfully stuck some reasonably accurate educational stuff in there for those folks in the audience who are completely ignorant of the period in question. In fact, most everything that was complained about has been presented in an educational fashion IN the program. Therefore, as should be clear, I was a little confused as to why anyone would be complaining about those very things, much less be disappointed in this series. As far as television made for money goes, I think it's highly educational and reasonably entertaining. It may be that you are correct and that there are people who have naively assumed that any production made for television is going to be made to their expectations of what constitutes factually correct, but I have all sorts of trouble believing that -any- rational human who had seen any of the previous series could have drawn that conclusion (Understandably, I am continually surprised when people I think should know better are dissapointed in movies as well for the same reason. Since clearly I haven't learned that people are just going to bitch about these things even though they really ought to know better. So with luck, someday it may sink in that some people just can't learn from experience - unfortunately that does seem to include me as well :) ) To be fair, I have not seen any of the "Survivor" programs, so I can't speak to the accuracy of the comparison of this series to those series. If they -are- in fact education, then perhaps "Survivor" had more educational value than I was giving it credit for :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Learn to simplify your finances and your life in Streamline Your Life from MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0405streamline.armx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 21:14:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4L1EgRM006863 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 21:14:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L1DjNX018617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 19:13:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L1Dg0Y036813; Thu, 20 May 2004 19:13:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L1Cd0Y036188 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 19:12:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 1199E5CC78D; Thu, 20 May 2004 21:12:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0068.floodcity.net [198.93.211.68]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1E9D5CC6C5 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 21:12:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40AD5702.CBA99926@floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:10:26 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Sewing and multi-tasking References: <104.46ea0a5e.2dde75e3@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO LOL, all one floor in our JR high, but I must have used peripheral vision to judge where to pay attention for I had to go upstairs and outside at the SRHigh. teehee, Kitty AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/19/2004 10:22:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, > basyefelton@floodcity.net writes: > > > used to read and walk down the hall at the > > same time, > > Ooooo...mind those stairs.... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 21:34:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4L1Y2RM006919 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 21:34:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L1XONX020161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 19:33:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L1XE0Y047068; Thu, 20 May 2004 19:33:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L1XC0Y047044 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 19:33:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AC551C0B0092; Thu, 20 May 2004 21:33:09 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.101]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 20 May 2004 21:33:09 -0400 Message-ID: <003b01c43ed4$6bf31c60$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:39:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 May 2004 01:33:09.0648 (UTC) FILETIME=[92E15900:01C43ED3] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mine, John Proctor and Susanna Martin were hanged in Salem. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "ruthanne baumgartner" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house > Mary Staples was the one who got in trouble for doubting the "witch marks" > and saying so. Roger Ludlowe accused her of witchcraft the next year, but > her husband sued Ludlowe for slander (!! would that more spouses had had the > guts and the wherewithal to do likewise elsewhere!). That trial was in New > Haven. Ludlowe skipped the country before the verdict--went to Ireland to > help Cromwell do his dirty work. Meanwhile, in I think 1692 somebody ELSE > accused Mary Staples of witchcraft, and also accused her daughter and > granddaughter. Once tainted.... (She got off, and so did her daughter and > granddaughter. Good thing: she was an ancestor of Winston Churchill's > mother, if I remember correctly!) > > The other witch hanged (besides Goody Knapp) was Goody Bassett, a year or > two before Knapp. Her comment that "there was a witch in Fairfield who held > her head full high" was taken as evidence against Knapp and then alluded to > again against Staples. > > Thank god I didn't live then, but they must have been "interesting times"! > How did your ancestors do in the trials? --Ruth Anne > > on 5/20/04 4:47 PM, Marc Carlson at marccarlson20@hotmail.com wrote: > > > Burning at the stake in England, and the English colonies, was reserved for > > treason against the crown. Fairfield -- hmm, that would be "Goodie" Knapp > > and Mary Staples, 1653. (I didn't actually start out to study clothing and > > shoes :) Originally my focus was on historical witchcraft trials...) > > > > Marc (who had ancestors tried in the Hartfort and New Haven trials) > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® > > Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 21:49:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4L1ndRM007024 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 21:49:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L1mpNX021261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 19:48:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L1mm0Y055216; Thu, 20 May 2004 19:48:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4L1mk0Y055188 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 19:48:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: (qmail 15789 invoked from network); 21 May 2004 02:24:43 -0000 Received: from dialup-4.249.141.73.dial1.washington2.level3.net (HELO oldwaylane.net) (4.249.141.73) by shada.com with SMTP; 21 May 2004 02:24:43 -0000 Message-ID: <40AD5E35.3000807@oldwaylane.net> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:41:09 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house References: <003b01c43ed4$6bf31c60$655183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <003b01c43ed4$6bf31c60$655183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i4L1mk0Y055188 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fascinating collection of descendants here! My ancestress was Mary Esty (and essentially her sisters). But also: John Alden who was in Plymouth as the ships cooper (they had a cooper, dunno about Colonial House, but the ship was required by law to have one) and Priscilla Mullins because her father was one of the financiers who wanted to go along. -Judy Mitchell Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Mine, John Proctor and Susanna Martin were hanged in Salem. > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ruthanne baumgartner" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:18 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house > > > >>Mary Staples was the one who got in trouble for doubting the "witch marks" >>and saying so. Roger Ludlowe accused her of witchcraft the next year, but >>her husband sued Ludlowe for slander (!! would that more spouses had had > > the > >>guts and the wherewithal to do likewise elsewhere!). That trial was in New >>Haven. Ludlowe skipped the country before the verdict--went to Ireland to >>help Cromwell do his dirty work. Meanwhile, in I think 1692 somebody ELSE >>accused Mary Staples of witchcraft, and also accused her daughter and >>granddaughter. Once tainted.... (She got off, and so did her daughter and >>granddaughter. Good thing: she was an ancestor of Winston Churchill's >>mother, if I remember correctly!) >> >>The other witch hanged (besides Goody Knapp) was Goody Bassett, a year or >>two before Knapp. Her comment that "there was a witch in Fairfield who > > held > >>her head full high" was taken as evidence against Knapp and then alluded > > to > >>again against Staples. >> >>Thank god I didn't live then, but they must have been "interesting times"! >>How did your ancestors do in the trials? --Ruth Anne >> >>on 5/20/04 4:47 PM, Marc Carlson at marccarlson20@hotmail.com wrote: >> >> >>>Burning at the stake in England, and the English colonies, was reserved > > for > >>>treason against the crown. Fairfield -- hmm, that would be "Goodie" > > Knapp > >>>and Mary Staples, 1653. (I didn't actually start out to study clothing > > and > >>>shoes :) Originally my focus was on historical witchcraft trials...) >>> >>>Marc (who had ancestors tried in the Hartfort and New Haven trials) >>> >>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® >>>Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>h-costume mailing list >>>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 21:57:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4L1vrRM007046 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 21:57:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L1uCNX021693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 19:56:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L1uA0Y059231; Thu, 20 May 2004 19:56:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L1u70Y059132 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 19:56:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.176]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4L1trja003625 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 11:55:53 +1000 Message-ID: <000f01c43ed6$5c6590a0$b090d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "historic costume" Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:53:04 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, As my local fabric store has a 3 for the price of 1 deal on Simplicity patterns (Lincraft for anyone else in Oz, sale ends next Tuesday) so I thought I'd buy the civil war underwear patterns but I'm not sure which corset pattern to take as one of my free patterns, there's 2 different styles, 1 with bust gores (and therefore adjustability for the bust) and one without. I'm a D cup so I think I may have to opt for the one with gores, but has anybody got experience with these 2 styles & can tell me which is easier or more authentic or just better for some other reason. Though if the one without gores would work with my bust I'll opt for that as you get drawers with that one for exactly the same price. Any and all suggestions for working with these patterns will be appreciated Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 22:32:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4L2WwRM007194 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 22:32:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L2W3NX024145 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 20:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L2W00Y077554; Thu, 20 May 2004 20:32:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.donet.com (mail.donet.com [64.56.96.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L2Vv0Z077494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 20:31:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mjh@pearlandplume.com) Received: (qmail 29701 invoked from network); 21 May 2004 02:31:54 -0000 X-Sender: mjh@pearlandplume.com X-Recipient: h-costume@indra.com Received: from unknown (HELO ?204.210.245.137?) (204.210.245.137) by mail.donet.com for h-costume@indra.com with SMTP; 21 May 2004 02:31:54 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:27:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series From: Marsha J Hamilton To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040520134338.83541.qmail@web20211.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've seen more than one photo from the 1880s of pioneer women standing in front of sod houses* in Kansas wearing nicely fitted cotton dresses, clearly worn over a corset, with their hair done up properly. Although living in squalor, they still had modesty, propriety and dignity. Colonial House is out of control. * (Non-US folks) Kansas prairie grassland had few trees so early houses were made from cut squares of sod piled like bricks. Marsha ------- > I haven't studied frontier living, but it would seem > to me that propriety would also be very important > there...They were civilized people, and it would seem to me that they would cling to what trappings of civilization they could... > Is this just a modern interpretation that's totally > off-base, or does anyone else think there might be > something in the idea? > > -Angela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 20 23:26:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4L3QFRM007401 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 23:26:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L3PZNX027747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 21:25:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L3PW0Y004700; Thu, 20 May 2004 21:25:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out004.verizon.net (out004pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.142]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L3PU0Y004685 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 21:25:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp ([4.62.20.121]) by out004.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040521032530.BAAP1551.out004.verizon.net@brandyscomp>; Thu, 20 May 2004 22:25:30 -0500 Message-ID: <00eb01c43ee3$497529d0$79143e04@brandyscomp> From: "Brandy Deming" To: "Historic Costume List" , "SCA Costumes" Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 20:25:37 -0700 Organization: Better Times for Small Business MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [4.62.20.121] at Thu, 20 May 2004 22:25:29 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sale At Jo - Anns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4L3QFRM007401 Status: RO Just thought everyone should know that Jo-Ann's having a sale on patters, McCalls and Simplicity are $0.99 and vogue is 75% off. Brandy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 00:04:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4L44gRM007575 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 00:04:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L442NX000391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 22:04:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L43x0Y024049; Thu, 20 May 2004 22:04:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L43s0Y023928 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 22:03:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 664124264B for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 23:23:19 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40AD80D2.3050200@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 23:08:50 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house References: <102.45d248f9.2dde9295@cs.com> In-Reply-To: <102.45d248f9.2dde9295@cs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jerankin435@cs.com wrote: > the fact that there are (to my knowledge) no > Puritans today They call themselves Congregationalists now, and their churches are still all over New England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregationalist_Church Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 00:34:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4L4YZRM007740 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 00:34:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L4XvNX001789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 22:33:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L4Xh0Y038620; Thu, 20 May 2004 22:33:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L4Xe0Y038587 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 22:33:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m67.in-tch.com [216.166.191.67]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4L49ke25216 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 22:09:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AD8783.4040903@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:37:23 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material- paned vs slashed References: <20040520140207.13832.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> <40ACDA61.6020109@in-tch.com> <005201c43e8a$fc41dbc0$1902a8c0@duncan> In-Reply-To: <005201c43e8a$fc41dbc0$1902a8c0@duncan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The one I saw was in Sacramento--I forget the name of the museum, but I'm sure there are others on the list who will remember for me. And I got to see it *really* close--I was about 6 inches away from it, which was like being 6 inches away from the holy grail or something, at least for me ! What led me to see the openings as slashes? A couple of observations on a detail near Eleanor's left? wrist. And a tiny enough detail that I've never noticed it in any of the book or online reproductions (or, come to think of it, in the "postcards" I have). 1. The brocade pattern of the fabric is continuous--no break of any kind to indicate seamline. No change in the refraction of the light from the satin background fabric, nada. Obviously one piece of fabric. 2. The braid on the edges of the slash came down one side of the opening, did a U-ey, and went back up the other side. I'm no good at ascii art, so I won't attempt to draw it, but does my explanation make sense? It really was one of those great "aha" moments for me, so maybe it's a "seeing is believing" thing. --sue p.s. It was a cool museum, by the way, even if they did make the unfortunately common error of equating the gown in the portrait for the one she was buried in--lots of 19th c.? California landscapes, and interesting coverlet from Spain (16th or 17th c, I think), the Bronzino, and a Breughel, which was *very* cool, and surprisingly small! ailith wrote: > Really?? Not trying to be a smarty pants...truly! > > I didn't see that and I've seen 2 of the portraits--the one in the > Detroit Museum of Art and the one at the Wallace. Granted, the one at > the Wallace is 7' up on the wall...but I was able to get within inches > of the one in Detroit. They still look like paned sleeves to me. > > What, to your eye, makes it obvious that they're slashes? > > Curiously, > > kate > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sue Clemenger" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:18 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material- paned vs slashed > > > >>What she said! >>I always figured that the Bronzino of Eleanor of Toledo (the one > > with > >>the black/gold/white dress) showed her with paned sleeves (i.e., > > sleeves > >>made of several separate strips of fabric), but seeing one of the > > real > >>portraits, it's obvious that the sleeve openings are slashes, and > > the > >>edges are finished with a braid. >>--sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 00:46:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4L4kuRM007769 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 00:46:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L4kMNX002371 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 22:46:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L4kL0Y044625; Thu, 20 May 2004 22:46:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.228]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L4kG0Y044588 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 22:46:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.57.64.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.57.64] helo=HELENPINTO) by mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BR1vE-0003Ox-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 20 May 2004 21:46:16 -0700 Message-ID: <017601c43eee$8ad4ffd0$40399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com><000201c43e4f$c5baaae0$2891d6cb@ewalpole> <40ACB8A8.7000501@in-tch.com><003001c43e7c$aecc2de0$06399b04@HELENPINTO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 00:46:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef54ff7610608c2191086421bcb0cdcc93350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jean wrote: > It was called (in th UK at least) "Surviving the Iron Age". It was > quite short I think, maybe just a week, compared to the other series. > Thanks for the title. I was able to read a bit about it on the BBC website. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 00:49:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4L4n8RM007772 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 00:49:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L4mUNX002491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 22:48:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L4mU0Y045733; Thu, 20 May 2004 22:48:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L4mQ0Y045700 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 22:48:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m67.in-tch.com [216.166.191.67]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4L4OWe01279 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 22:24:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AD8AFA.3070407@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:52:10 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house References: <12e.42250772.2dde19a7@cs.com><001701c43e79$f46d1150$ee65c345@39jz301> <40ACDD56.2020005@in-tch.com> <001601c43e9e$c4230200$775183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <001601c43e9e$c4230200$775183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's not quite was I was giggling at. IIRC, today's baptists are "descended" from the Anabaptists, and the Puritans were apt to think of them in, uh, not very complimentary ways. I believe they exiled them to places like Rhode Island. There was a whole lot less of the modern evangelical sense of having a personal relationship with a Savior, and a whole lot more about predestination, graphic imagery of sinners in hell, etc. God wasn't a nice guy, and salvation wasn't exactly assured, although you could look for clues to whether you were considered one of the "elect" by how well your life was going. Not too far a stretch to tie it into some of the aspects of modern prosperity theology, come to think of it. OCC: Has anyone else tried the little "dress the colonist" quiz on the website? I did okay until I got to the shoes--dunno about the rest of you (women) who wear clothing from corseted time periods, but I, personally, put the shoes on *before* the corset, so I can bend over and tie or buckle, as the case may be. ;o) --sue Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > It has been my understanding that the Pilgrims (Plimouth) and Puritans > (Boston) were not quite the same thing. Pilgrims were looking for religious > freedom and Puritans ('Round heads'?) were part of a status quo who were > politically approved and financially connected to Colonization. > Kathleen---- Original Message ----- > From: "Sue Clemenger" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:31 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house > > > >>Is anyone besides me getting a twisted giggle out of the idea of a >>*Baptist* minister portraying a Puritan? Or is that too obscure a >>historical bit? >>As far as dissenters go, at least some of the "persona histories" on the >>website are clear that they're not there for religious reasons, but for >>financial gain, etc, etc. Can't remember if this was also the storyline >>given for the Voorhees family, but I know it was for some of the others. >>Historically, certainly there were some who came for religious reasons, >>but not most of them, despite cultural misconceptions about same in US >>culture. >>--sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 01:14:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4L5ElRM007884 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 01:14:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L5EBNX003920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 23:14:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L5E90Y058074; Thu, 20 May 2004 23:14:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L5E70Y058057 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 23:14:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m67.in-tch.com [216.166.191.67]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4L4oEe11903 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 22:50:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AD90FF.1090206@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 23:17:51 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House Series References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I have, having gotten hooked somewhere during the "Africa" season. And I haven't seen one yet that really resembles in any major way *ANY* of the various historical-house shows. There are cosmetic similarities--folks who have minimal training, in a setting foreign to them in time and/or place, personality conflicts (which I file under the "well, duh, they're human" heading), stuff like that. And with Pioneer House, at least, there was a slight sense of competition with the group goal, but other than that, they're really pretty dissimilar. And I watch them for completely different reasons--I love the historical angle of the "house" shows, and I think of them as the equivalent of a reasonably well researched historical novel, and *not* a scholarly text. With the "Survivor" shows, it's more about the sheer fascination of watching rats in a maze--what people will and won't do for a million bucks, what works and what doesn't in relationships, etc. More like sneaking a peek at the tabloids when you're in line at the grocery store. I've seen the 1st four hours of Colonial House, and look forward to seeing the other half of it next week, which is when our station is showing them. --sue Marc Carlson wrote: > To be fair, I have not seen any of the "Survivor" programs, so I can't > speak to the accuracy of the comparison of this series to those series. > If they -are- in fact education, then perhaps "Survivor" had more > educational value than I was giving it credit for :) > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 01:19:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4L5J2RM007929 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 01:19:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L5IVNX004203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 May 2004 23:18:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L5IR0Y060098; Thu, 20 May 2004 23:18:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L5IO0Y060071 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 23:18:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m67.in-tch.com [216.166.191.67]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4L4sUe13731 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 22:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AD9200.8000007@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 23:22:08 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house References: <003b01c43ed4$6bf31c60$655183d1@rmitchellras> <40AD5E35.3000807@oldwaylane.net> In-Reply-To: <40AD5E35.3000807@oldwaylane.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Son of a gun! We're "cousins" of a sort....My dad always said we were descended from those two, as well. --sue, who has other relatives that settled in Mass. in the early 1600s (I think I'm...11th? 12th? generation from that line) Judy Mitchell wrote: > Fascinating collection of descendants here! My ancestress was Mary Esty > (and essentially her sisters). But also: John Alden who was in Plymouth > as the ships cooper (they had a cooper, dunno about Colonial House, but > the ship was required by law to have one) and Priscilla Mullins because > her father was one of the financiers who wanted to go along. > > -Judy Mitchell > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 02:45:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4L6j9RM027146 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 02:45:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L6fkNX008521 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 00:41:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L6fe0Y097686; Fri, 21 May 2004 00:41:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L6fc0Y097627 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 00:41:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004052106413301600976gme>; Fri, 21 May 2004 06:41:33 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:40:51 -0400 From: Lauren Walker To: h-costume Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Market wallets? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, I'm making an 18th-century style "market wallet" -- a sort of two-ended bag that opens through a slit in the middle. I've seen them referred to in the early 19th century, too, but has anybody got any idea how far back they go? Such a functional design could easily be quite old, but then again, maybe not. Any thoughts? Thanks, Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 02:48:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4L6m1RM028374 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 02:48:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L6kENX008860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 00:46:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L6kD0Y000246; Fri, 21 May 2004 00:46:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L6kB0Y000140 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 00:46:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <200405210646060160099aske>; Fri, 21 May 2004 06:46:06 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:45:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House Series From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <40AD90FF.1090206@in-tch.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had to stop watching "Survivor" the day I realized it was just office politics in bathing suits with the threat of literal instead of figurative starvation. They historical ones, on the other hand, drive me bats with wanting to get in there and do it "right". Or just take over their lovely buildings and send the whingers all home for a hot bath and a nice dinner. > From: Sue Clemenger > > > Well, I have, having gotten hooked somewhere during the "Africa" season. > And I haven't seen one yet that really resembles in any major way > *ANY* of the various historical-house shows. > There are cosmetic similarities--folks who have minimal training, in a > setting foreign to them in time and/or place, personality conflicts > (which I file under the "well, duh, they're human" heading), stuff like > that. And with Pioneer House, at least, there was a slight sense of > competition with the group goal, but other than that, they're really > pretty dissimilar. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 04:34:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4L8Y3RM002297 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 04:34:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L8W0NX014438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 02:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L8Vr0Y048093; Fri, 21 May 2004 02:31:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L8Vm0Y048022 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 02:31:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0140.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.80.141]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3203E319230 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 10:05:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40ADB860.2090503@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:05:52 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns References: <000f01c43ed6$5c6590a0$b090d6cb@ewalpole> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I made the one with bust gores. Unfortionally I made it at least size to big. But I had no problems putting it toghter and it wil fit very well if I make it one size smaller. And it needs a busk. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Victorian/Victorian.html Greetings, Deredere Elizabeth Walpole wrote: >Hi all, >As my local fabric store has a 3 for the price of 1 deal on Simplicity >patterns (Lincraft for anyone else in Oz, sale ends next Tuesday) so I >thought I'd buy the civil war underwear patterns but I'm not sure which >corset pattern to take as one of my free patterns, there's 2 different >styles, 1 with bust gores (and therefore adjustability for the bust) and one >without. I'm a D cup so I think I may have to opt for the one with gores, >but has anybody got experience with these 2 styles & can tell me which is >easier or more authentic or just better for some other reason. Though if the >one without gores would work with my bust I'll opt for that as you get >drawers with that one for exactly the same price. >Any and all suggestions for working with these patterns will be appreciated >Elizabeth >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- >Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole >Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia > ewalpole@austar.net.au > >People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun >is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if >there is light from within. >Elizabeth Kubler-Ross > >The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added >to the ages of other women. >Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 04:56:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4L8uMRM002350 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 04:56:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L8sWNX015657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 02:54:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L8sU0Y057706; Fri, 21 May 2004 02:54:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L8sR0Y057643 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 02:54:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i4L8sLT00076.; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:54:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:54:21 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:54:02 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> rmitchell@washjeff.edu 20/05/2004 20:15:07 >>> >It has been my understanding that the Pilgrims (Plimouth) and >Puritans (Boston) were not quite the same thing. Pilgrims were looking >for religious freedom and Puritans ('Round heads'?) were part of a >status quo who were politically approved and financially connected to >Colonization. >Kathleen--- Not quite. "Puritan" was a term used (by others) to describe the party that considered the Church of England to be still too "Catholic" in its practices, and had a horror of any kind of ritual. The Pilgrim Fathers were part of this movement. They saw themselves as a reform movement within the Church, but the Presbyterian and Congregational churches later evolved from them. There were wealthy Puritans who financed voyages to America, but they weren't "politically approved" until the Parliamentarians("Roundheads") won the Civil War in the 1640s (and that only lasted until the Restoration in 1660). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 07:38:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LBc2RM003160 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 07:38:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LBbANX023928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 05:37:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LBaw0Y024465; Fri, 21 May 2004 05:36:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LBat0Y024430 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 05:36:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A9D63399007C; Fri, 21 May 2004 07:36:54 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.116]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 21 May 2004 07:36:53 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c43f28$c31520c0$745183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:42:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 May 2004 11:36:54.0479 (UTC) FILETIME=[EA8FE5F0:01C43F27] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you very much, Kate. This is the clearest explanation of the difference between the two groups that I have seen. Kathleen----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:54 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> rmitchell@washjeff.edu 20/05/2004 20:15:07 >>> > >It has been my understanding that the Pilgrims (Plimouth) and > >Puritans (Boston) were not quite the same thing. Pilgrims were looking > >for religious freedom and Puritans ('Round heads'?) were part of a > >status quo who were politically approved and financially connected to > >Colonization. > >Kathleen--- > > Not quite. "Puritan" was a term used (by others) to describe the party > that considered the Church of England to be still too "Catholic" in its > practices, and had a horror of any kind of ritual. The Pilgrim Fathers > were part of this movement. They saw themselves as a reform movement > within the Church, but the Presbyterian and Congregational churches > later evolved from them. > There were wealthy Puritans who financed voyages to America, but they > weren't "politically approved" until the Parliamentarians("Roundheads") > won the Civil War in the 1640s (and that only lasted until the > Restoration in 1660). > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 09:13:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LDDsRM003668 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:13:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LDDHNX028809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 07:13:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LDDD0Y067274; Fri, 21 May 2004 07:13:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4LDDB0Y067172 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 07:13:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cassandra@greer.de) Received: (qmail 20712 invoked by uid 65534); 21 May 2004 13:13:00 -0000 Received: from p54804DA3.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO cassandr6a9wj0) (84.128.77.163) by mail.gmx.net (mp012) with SMTP; 21 May 2004 15:13:00 +0200 X-Authenticated: #13649924 From: "Cassandra Greer" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:31:05 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000a01c43f28$c31520c0$745183d1@rmitchellras> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The height of 17th century fashion - sort of X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20040517/breasts.html Cass :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 09:17:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LDHKRM003677 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:17:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LDFYNX028963 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 07:15:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LDFV0Y068433; Fri, 21 May 2004 07:15:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4LDFT0Y068394 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 07:15:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-16551); Fri, 21 May 2004 06:15:25 -0700 Received: from unknown (66.205.128.60) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 21 May 2004 06:15:25 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040521061438.01ef3c08@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 06:15:24 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material- paned vs slashed In-Reply-To: <40AD8783.4040903@in-tch.com> References: <005201c43e8a$fc41dbc0$1902a8c0@duncan> <20040520140207.13832.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> <40ACDA61.6020109@in-tch.com> <005201c43e8a$fc41dbc0$1902a8c0@duncan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-71 ip=66.205.128.60 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:37 PM 5/20/2004 -0600, you wrote: >The one I saw was in Sacramento--I forget the name of the museum, but I'm >sure there are others on the list who will remember for me. >And I got to see it *really* close--I was about 6 inches away from it, >which was like being 6 inches away from the holy grail or something, at >least for me ! >What led me to see the openings as slashes? A couple of observations on a >detail near Eleanor's left? wrist. And a tiny enough detail that I've >never noticed it in any of the book or online reproductions (or, come to >think of it, in the "postcards" I have). >1. The brocade pattern of the fabric is continuous--no break of any kind >to indicate seamline. No change in the refraction of the light from the >satin background fabric, nada. Obviously one piece of fabric. >2. The braid on the edges of the slash came down one side of the opening, >did a U-ey, and went back up the other side. >I'm no good at ascii art, so I won't attempt to draw it, but does my >explanation make sense? It really was one of those great "aha" moments >for me, so maybe it's a "seeing is believing" thing. >--sue >p.s. It was a cool museum, by the way, even if they did make the >unfortunately common error of equating the gown in the portrait for the >one she was buried in--lots of 19th c.? California landscapes, and >interesting coverlet from Spain (16th or 17th c, I think), the Bronzino, >and a Breughel, which was *very* cool, and surprisingly small! Was it the Crocker Museum? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 09:24:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LDOQRM003706 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:24:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LDNlNX029663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 07:23:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LDNj0Y073225; Fri, 21 May 2004 07:23:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14004.mail.yahoo.com (web14004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4LDNP0Y073021 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 07:23:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040521132325.81922.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.2.27.21] by web14004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 21 May 2004 14:23:25 BST Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:23:25 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <40ADB860.2090503@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've made the earlier version without gores and it was easy to make and with the style boning I used I did not need a busk. The sizing seemed to be a little large. I had to go back and cut the poor thing down by about 4 inches to fit me. Catalina --- Deredere Galbraith wrote: > > > >Hi all, > >As my local fabric store has a 3 for the price of > 1 deal on Simplicity > >patterns (Lincraft for anyone else in Oz, sale ends > next Tuesday) so I > >thought I'd buy the civil war underwear patterns > but I'm not sure which > >corset pattern to take as one of my free patterns, > there's 2 different > >styles, 1 with bust gores (and therefore > adjustability for the bust) and one > >without. I'm a D cup so I think I may have to opt > for the one with gores, > >but has anybody got experience with these 2 styles > & can tell me which is > >easier or more authentic or just better for some > other reason. Though if the > >one without gores would work with my bust I'll opt > for that as you get > >drawers with that one for exactly the same price. > >Any and all suggestions for working with these > patterns will be appreciated > >Elizabeth ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 09:25:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LDPwRM003709 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:25:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LDPONX029783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 07:25:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LDPO0Y074057; Fri, 21 May 2004 07:25:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LDO70Y073446 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 07:24:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i4LDO6T24919.; Fri, 21 May 2004 14:24:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 21 May 2004 14:24:06 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:23:41 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Difference? I was trying to explain that the Pilgrims and Roundheads were both part of the *same* Puritan movement... Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> rmitchell@washjeff.edu 21/05/2004 12:42:56 >>> Thank you very much, Kate. This is the clearest explanation of the difference between the two groups that I have seen. Kathleen---- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 09:43:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LDhpRM003779 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:43:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LDfuNX000948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 07:41:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LDfr0Y083030; Fri, 21 May 2004 07:41:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LDfp0Y083001 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 07:41:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 8A37A5CC813; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:41:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0056.floodcity.net [198.93.211.56]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 075695CC746 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:41:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40AE069F.1828261@floodcity.net> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:39:43 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns References: <000f01c43ed6$5c6590a0$b090d6cb@ewalpole> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I bought the one with gores since I heard that the gores were more supportive for a busty woman. Kitty Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > > Hi all, > As my local fabric store has a 3 for the price of 1 deal on Simplicity > patterns (Lincraft for anyone else in Oz, sale ends next Tuesday) so I > thought I'd buy the civil war underwear patterns but I'm not sure which > corset pattern to take as one of my free patterns, there's 2 different > styles, 1 with bust gores (and therefore adjustability for the bust) and one > without. I'm a D cup so I think I may have to opt for the one with gores, > but has anybody got experience with these 2 styles & can tell me which is > easier or more authentic or just better for some other reason. Though if the > one without gores would work with my bust I'll opt for that as you get > drawers with that one for exactly the same price. > Any and all suggestions for working with these patterns will be appreciated > Elizabeth > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole > Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia > ewalpole@austar.net.au > > People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun > is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if > there is light from within. > Elizabeth Kubler-Ross > > The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added > to the ages of other women. > Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 09:48:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LDm1RM003830 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:48:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LDlLNX001272 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 07:47:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LDlK0Y086089; Fri, 21 May 2004 07:47:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LDlH0Y086017 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 07:47:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.83.c689f19 (4426) for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:47:09 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <83.c689f19.2ddf625d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:47:09 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/21/2004 9:42:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, basyefelton@floodcity.net writes: > I bought the one with gores since I heard that the gores were more > supportive for a busty woman. Kitty > > Gores are in a skirt. Do you mean gussets? Anyway, I don't see how they can be more supportive. It's the fabric and boning that supports. Whether you choose gussets or a "French" cut [shaped pieces] has more to do with silhouette. Both work equally well support-wise. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 09:59:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LDxsRM003914 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:59:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LDw1NX002178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 07:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LDvv0Y092289; Fri, 21 May 2004 07:57:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LDvs0Y092180 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 07:57:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 21 May 2004 08:57:47 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Beta Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:57:31 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Colonial House X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have found it very interesting how many of the folks on this list trace their ancestory back to this time. One branch of my family, the Lewis', also came over the pond in the early 1620's with one of the first Methodist colonies in Massachusetts. While I wish they would be more accurate I still enjoy the 'House' series. I'm not sure I would do all that much better than some of the folks in the series but it would be fun to try. I do kind of wonder however why the Powers-that-be for these series tend to take books from this time on 'how life should be lived' so seriously (I am thinking, in particular, of the book on housekeeping that was used in the 1900 House series). My impression has always been that these were just one way of living that *someone* felt needed to be reinforced with written instructions. If everyone was really living this way, no book would have been required :). The corsets are starting to drive me nuts on Colonial House, why the heck did they not make them so the straps would stay up!!!! Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 10:04:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LE4TRM003955 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 10:04:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LE3XNX002700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 08:03:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LE3X0Y095883; Fri, 21 May 2004 08:03:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LE3U0Y095847 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 08:03:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id A3B135CC826; Fri, 21 May 2004 10:03:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0056.floodcity.net [198.93.211.56]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F1B15CC842 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 10:03:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40AE0BB4.2196260E@floodcity.net> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:01:24 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] puritans References: <102.45d248f9.2dde9295@cs.com> <40AD80D2.3050200@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: > > Jerankin435@cs.com wrote: > > > the fact that there are (to my knowledge) no > > Puritans today > > They call themselves Congregationalists now, and their churches are > still all over New England. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregationalist_Church > > Dawn > it is my understanding that puritans were called that at the time because of their efforts to try to "purify" the anglican (Episcopalian) church of Unbiblical practices. I would imagine since they failed, they eventually ceased from calling themselves that, or perhaps those around them ceased from calling them that as they began to deemphasize that aspect of their efforts. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 10:22:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LEMARM004039 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 10:22:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LEKANX004140 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 08:20:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LEK80Y005890; Fri, 21 May 2004 08:20:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LEHg0Y004337 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 08:17:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 6902C5CC863; Fri, 21 May 2004 10:17:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0056.floodcity.net [198.93.211.56]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 198025CC807 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 10:17:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40AE0F07.A8789B85@floodcity.net> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:15:35 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Market wallets? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO how does it close? where did you find the pattern or description of how to make it? it sounds similar to some japanese bags I have seen patterns for. Kitty Lauren Walker wrote: > > Hello, > I'm making an 18th-century style "market wallet" -- a sort of two-ended bag > that opens through a slit in the middle. I've seen them referred to in the > early 19th century, too, but has anybody got any idea how far back they go? > Such a functional design could easily be quite old, but then again, maybe > not. > > Any thoughts? > Thanks, > Lauren > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 10:34:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LEYcRM004121 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 10:34:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LEXXNX005208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 08:33:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LEXU0Y014802; Fri, 21 May 2004 08:33:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LEXS0Y014766 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 08:33:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 106805CC428; Fri, 21 May 2004 10:33:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (webmail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.62]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A844B5CC288 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 10:33:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 198.93.211.56 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Fri, 21 May 2004 10:33:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1250.198.93.211.56.1085150010.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:33:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.211.56 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.08 [en] (Win98; I) In-Reply-To: <83.c689f19.2ddf625d@aol.com> References: <83.c689f19.2ddf625d@aol.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, right. maybe what they wrote was possibly that since the shape of the corset could conform more easily to the larger figure, it would be easier to fit to the bust. lots less curved seams to sew for one thing. Sorry, I wasn't thinking well last night. Nausea and all. sorry again. Kitty > In a message dated 5/21/2004 9:42:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, > basyefelton@floodcity.net writes: > >> I bought the one with gores since I heard that the gores were more >> supportive for a busty woman. Kitty >> >> > > Gores are in a skirt. > > Do you mean gussets? > > Anyway, I don't see how they can be more supportive. It's the fabric and > boning that supports. Whether you choose gussets or a "French" cut > [shaped pieces] has more to do with silhouette. Both work equally well > support-wise. _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 10:43:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LEhjRM004193 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 10:43:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LEh1NX006069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 08:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LEgK0Y020802; Fri, 21 May 2004 08:42:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LEgD0Y020719 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 08:42:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA10526 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:42:11 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Colonial House Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:42:11 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you Catherine for making the point about the instruction books for living. Possibly were not more how life was lived than Martha Stewart et. al. books. Also have always wondered about all the books and pampletes and preaching(just about in every belief system)for females to be "chaste, silent, and obedient." It would have been an expensive waste of paper, ink, and printing press to supply all this information and advice to the "converted", so to speak. Except all the how-tos and recipes for food and medicine are most instructive to us today. To be off-topic, I've been researching the Salem witchcraft episode off and on for years with the aim of writing a historically correct novel. I've always been most interested in the real John Proctor family, as opposed to Arthur Miller's interpretation, as the real family was far more interesting!As well as Mary Warren who disappeared from surviving history records at the end of the trials. Also, as part of my research, are there any wills or family inventories as to what the Salem village families wore in 1692? Modern history tends to put everyone in the Pilgrim and Puritan styles of 60-70 years earlier. But someone like Elizabeth Proctor I see wearing more like a mantua, at least for Sabbath best. How far would a fairly wealthy family, rural but with ties to the seacost town of Salem(the Proctors attended the Salem Town meetinghouse, not the one Salem Village? Cindy Abel I have found it very interesting how many of the folks on this list trace their ancestory back to this time. One branch of my family, the Lewis', also came over the pond in the early 1620's with one of the first Methodist colonies in Massachusetts. While I wish they would be more accurate I still enjoy the 'House' series. I'm not sure I would do all that much better than some of the folks in the series but it would be fun to try. I do kind of wonder however why the Powers-that-be for these series tend to take books from this time on 'how life should be lived' so seriously (I am thinking, in particular, of the book on housekeeping that was used in the 1900 House series). My impression has always been that these were just one way of living that *someone* felt needed to be reinforced with written instructions. If everyone was really living this way, no book would have been required :). The corsets are starting to drive me nuts on Colonial House, why the heck did they not make them so the straps would stay up!!!! Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 11:16:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LFGURM004428 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 11:16:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LFFlNX009738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 09:15:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LFFj0Y045505; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:15:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4LFFV0Y045304 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:15:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 7576 invoked from network); 21 May 2004 15:15:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 21 May 2004 15:15:39 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Fri, 21 May 2004 08:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1156.24.4.69.40.1085152531.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <40AD8783.4040903@in-tch.com> References: <20040520140207.13832.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> <40ACDA61.6020109@in-tch.com><005201c43e8a$fc41dbc0$1902a8c0@duncan> <40AD8783.4040903@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material- paned vs slashed From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The one I saw was in Sacramento--I forget the name of the museum, but > I'm sure there are others on the list who will remember for me. > And I got to see it *really* close--I was about 6 inches away from it, > which was like being 6 inches away from the holy grail or something, at > least for me ! Sue & list, The name of the museum is the Crocker Art Gallery. It does have a nice collection of items and they have 19th century clothing as well. I suspect if you write ahead, you could view the collection up close, if anyone is interested. But yes, they do have one of the four (?) reproductions of the Eleanora of Toledo painting that is in all of the books. It is quite large, too. Like poster-sized. And there are no ropes or shadow boxes in front of it so you can indeed get right up close to it and study the details. Diana Habra www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 11:23:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LFNKRM004446 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 11:23:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LFLONX010451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 09:21:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LFLL0Y049667; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:21:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LFLG0Y049540 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:21:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.6b.2a15e09b (4426) for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 11:21:09 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <6b.2a15e09b.2ddf7865@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:21:09 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/21/2004 10:34:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, basyefelton@floodcity.net writes: > sorry again No need to apologize. I just want to make sure we all know what you're talking about. I think you have more control over shape with a "French" corset pattern. You can have as many pieces as you need. But I do love the gusset shapes best. They can be subtle in a different way from curved shaped pieces. They seem, to me, to have a more "period" shape. Past Patterns has an 1860s corset with gussets that is my favorite 19th century corset pattern. [Sorry, can't remember the number. Anyone?] It is lightly boned so I added a bone between each bone on the pattern.[you could add more]. I also lengthened it about an inch. I think it works from the late 1830s thru the 1860s. Personally, every corset, regardless of cut, looks better on someone who has some flesh to move around. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 12:19:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LGJVRM004754 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 12:19:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LGHeNX017987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 10:17:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LGHV0Y092798; Fri, 21 May 2004 10:17:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LGHQ0Y092657 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 10:17:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from M311@aol.com) Received: from M311@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.198.29e34eae (4410) for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 12:17:18 -0400 (EDT) From: M311@aol.com Message-ID: <198.29e34eae.2ddf858e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:17:18 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5024 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: colonial house X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/20/2004 10:27:08 PM Central Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: and Amish The Amish broke off from the Mennonites though while still in Europe. Kelly _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 12:43:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LGhjRM004969 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 12:43:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LGeCNX021622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 10:40:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LGdh0Y009969; Fri, 21 May 2004 10:39:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20728.mail.yahoo.com (web20728.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4LGbq0Y008457 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 10:37:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040521163746.90458.qmail@web20728.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.60.172.50] by web20728.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:37:46 PDT Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:37:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <83.c689f19.2ddf625d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > albracat, I believe, said something like: > Gores are in a skirt. 'Scuse me? Gores are panels that extend the full length of a garment & allow for shaping. They can be in any garment, I believe, so a princess-seamed garment, of historic cut or not, can be said to be gored; skirts can be gored & frequently have been, and corsets can & are gored. Both Simplicity corset patterns, and a great many others, are gored. > Do you mean gussets? A (vaguely) triangular or pie-wedge-shaped piece with some side to the 'edge' of a garment in a godet. A gusset is enclosed, like the typical Underarm Gusset in your basic rectangles & triangles shirt. yes, i can spell pendantic. Ann in CT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 13:42:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LHgfRM005279 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:42:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LHfvNX002381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 11:41:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LHfp0Y058772; Fri, 21 May 2004 11:41:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LHfl0Z058717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 11:41:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-193.sonic.net [209.148.112.193]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4LHfj39021186 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 10:41:47 -0700 Message-ID: <40AE406C.3080707@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:46:20 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Gores versus gussets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The terms "gores" and "gussets" are somewhat confusing when applied to corsets, because in original 19th-century terminology what we now would call "gussets" are often called "gores." Also somewhat confusing when applied to skirts, because in original 19th-century terminology rectangular sections are sometimes called "gores," particularly when some or all of the other skirt sections are shaped. As I've said before, 19th-century fashion and sewing terminology is by no means consistent, and terms are by no means always used the way we now use them. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 13:57:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LHvvRM005338 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:57:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LHtuNX004515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 11:55:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LHtj0Y068863; Fri, 21 May 2004 11:55:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80507.mail.yahoo.com (web80507.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4LHtg0Y068756 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 11:55:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040521175536.48279.qmail@web80507.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.104.228.236] by web80507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 21 May 2004 10:55:36 PDT Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:55:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405210326.i4L3QA0Z005024@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House Series X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Responded to privately. > > >From: Dawn Jacobson > >>I feel like I should point out that most of the > complaints and criticisms > >>that people have had about the show have been > >>discussed and explained IN the context of the > program, > >>including when people have acted inapproprately > and why it > >>was innappropriate to the experiment, and how it > was handled > >>and why. > >>I don't expect people who haven't actually been > watching the > >>show to see this, but I'm at a loss to understand > why people > >>who HAVE been watching the shows have missed these > details. > >And I'm at a bit of a loss as to what you're > saying, > >so perhaps you could elucidate. > > Is there a reason you've chosen to use "elucidate" > twice in your message? > > I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was being unclear. > Let me be more explicit. > > On this list, I've seen a number of complaints about > things that have > appeared on this series, from homosexuality, > costuming issues, failure to > behave in a 1600s fashion, the differences between > those who came over for > religious reasons versus those who came over to make > money and so forth. > Every one of these topics has been discussed in the > episodes shown so far. > > Now, perhaps I'm more cynical than some, but - > having seen most of the other > "house" programs they've produced, when they > advertized this one, it never > actually occured to me to assume that they were > planning on making a > historical documentary on life in 1620, or a living > history re-enactment of > the period, but rather that they were planning on > putting some modern people > with minimal training in situations where they would > have to face the > realities of life under different circumstances to > illustrate and explore > some of the difficulties that living in such a > period might have experienced > that we today generally don't have to deal with. > They have adequately > fulfilled these expectations, AND successfully stuck > some reasonably > accurate educational stuff in there for those folks > in the audience who are > completely ignorant of the period in question. In > fact, most everything > that was complained about has been presented in an > educational fashion IN > the program. > > Therefore, as should be clear, I was a little > confused as to why anyone > would be complaining about those very things, much > less be disappointed in > this series. As far as television made for money > goes, I think it's highly > educational and reasonably entertaining. It may be > that you are correct and > that there are people who have naively assumed that > any production made for > television is going to be made to their expectations > of what constitutes > factually correct, but I have all sorts of trouble > believing that -any- > rational human who had seen any of the previous > series could have drawn that > conclusion (Understandably, I am continually > surprised when people I think > should know better are dissapointed in movies as > well for the same reason. > Since clearly I haven't learned that people are just > going to bitch about > these things even though they really ought to know > better. So with luck, > someday it may sink in that some people just can't > learn from experience - > unfortunately that does seem to include me as well > :) ) > > To be fair, I have not seen any of the "Survivor" > programs, so I can't speak > to the accuracy of the comparison of this series to > those series. If they > -are- in fact education, then perhaps "Survivor" had > more educational value > than I was giving it credit for :) > > Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 14:07:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LI7aRM005369 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 14:07:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LI4eNX006332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 12:04:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LI4c0Y076064; Fri, 21 May 2004 12:04:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LI190Y072820 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 12:01:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i4LI13C20258 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 14:01:03 -0400 From: "Althea Turner" To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:01:03 -0500 Message-Id: <20040521180103.M49845@alfalfapress.com> In-Reply-To: <20040521163746.90458.qmail@web20728.mail.yahoo.com> References: <83.c689f19.2ddf625d@aol.com> <20040521163746.90458.qmail@web20728.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Open WebMail 1.71 20021114 X-OriginatingIP: 128.193.123.79 (alfalfapress@alfalfapress.com) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] article on early medieval embroidery stitches X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all, I have been looking through my notes for a citation on an article but can't find it. It was on known embroidery stitches in northern europe 400-800 (ish) Does anyone know of such an article/website/book? Am I going crazy and imagining the reference? *laughs* Is there a similar article on seam/stitches? Thanks!!! *** Directory of Diverse Knowledge http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca Althea Turner althea@alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 14:38:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LIcHRM005445 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 14:38:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LIbaNX014417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 12:37:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LIbW0Y003853; Fri, 21 May 2004 12:37:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LIbT0Y003803 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 12:37:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26796 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:38:52 -0500 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:38:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Rev war costume, need fast help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO An e-friend of mine in California asked me for advice on something that's so far out of my period I have no clue what to tell her. So I'm asking you folks. Her message is below, with some further elaboration based on my questions to her. She needs to be able to adapt materials-on-hand for husband and child (age 10) on short notice, for a one-shot deal, so accurate kit is not required, just something that has basically the right look. Her message: << My daughter is doing a Revolutionary War reenactment next week at school and my husband, Brian, is going to be there as a chaperone. They both need costumes, and my husband wants something special. The school suggests dark pants, white baggy shirt, long white knee socks, coat/vest optional. However, Brian has done some research on the pants and think khaki or other light colored pants would be best. Also, he wants me to take a pair of pants and make him some breetches. He wants a vest too, but he says it has to be sewn because modern vests won't work. Plus they want hats (he's found a web source). ... I can sew some, but I'm not sure I could make a vest, say, without a pattern. But I could do it if I had a pattern. I was hoping I could take a shirt and then modify that. The encampment happens next Thursday, so I don't have a lot of time. Rachel is going to go as a soldier. Brian has ordered 2 hats, a shirt for him, and socks for him. I thought that Rachel could wear her tan capri pants. If possible, I could do a vest for each of them, and modify some khakis to make breeches for Brian. So those are probably the items that I want advice on. >> I'll forward any suggestions on to her. Thanks, folks! --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 14:46:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LIk5RM005517 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 14:46:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LIjANX016327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 12:45:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LIj10Y009949; Fri, 21 May 2004 12:45:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LIii0Y009589 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 12:44:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be91.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.145]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5F20C47FE1F for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 20:44:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001001c43f63$a8094af0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:44:32 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] image bank of Lyon X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear list There must be many of you who would be interrested in this. Musee de Tissus in Lyon has opened an image bank with more than 40000 pictures of silks textiles, embroideries and the like. You have to pay to get the large images about 85 euros for a month. They opened this image bank and you can se more than 300 examples but only small images i am afraid. If any of you are going to pay, please let me know how the quality is and if you can download them. I would be very interrested for my embroidery. http://www.banque-images.com/fr/Frame/Espace_Visiteur.htm Have fun! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 15:03:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LJ3NRM005561 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:03:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJ22NX020730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 13:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJ210Y024091; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:02:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJ0l0Y023014 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:00:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A1DB164B0068; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:00:43 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.118]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 21 May 2004 15:00:43 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c43f66$c51f6680$765183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:06:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 May 2004 19:00:43.0794 (UTC) FILETIME=[EADEE720:01C43F65] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I understand this. However, my 'New England' upbringing always made a point about them being just a little 'different'. Like spooning soup...toward you or away from you, to be proper.Even with the same bounds of religiosity, we were told that they were Not quite the same thing.I find that from a Britt's point of view that they were considered to be the Same. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house > Difference? I was trying to explain that the Pilgrims and Roundheads > were both part of the *same* Puritan movement... > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> rmitchell@washjeff.edu 21/05/2004 12:42:56 >>> > Thank you very much, Kate. This > is the clearest explanation of the difference between the two groups > that I > have seen. > Kathleen---- > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 15:04:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LJ4QRM005568 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:04:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJ08NX020162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 13:00:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJ050Y022496; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:00:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJ040Y022478 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:00:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 3B6055CC847; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:00:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0561.floodcity.net [198.93.213.53]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CF3B5CC78C for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:00:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40AE5133.E88BDD83@floodcity.net> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:57:55 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gores versus gussets References: <40AE406C.3080707@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO yes it is confusing. Sometimes I don't know why one term is used over another. as far as I know, a gore is narrow at one end and wide at the other. a gusset is inserted in the middle of a seam. however, it seems you are saying there is some other criteria, which I would be interested in knowing. I am not a professionally trained seamstress, so I have to learn this stuff as I can. Kitty Lavolta Press wrote: > > The terms "gores" and "gussets" are somewhat confusing when applied to > corsets, because in original 19th-century terminology what we now would > call "gussets" are often called "gores." Also somewhat confusing when > applied to skirts, because in original 19th-century terminology > rectangular sections are sometimes called "gores," particularly when > some or all of the other skirt sections are shaped. > > As I've said before, 19th-century fashion and sewing terminology is by > no means consistent, and terms are by no means always used the way we > now use them. > > Fran > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 15:08:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LJ8dRM005588 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:08:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJ6iNX021982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 13:06:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJ6g0Y027861; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:06:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJ6Z0Y027701 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:06:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.37.48558efc (4320) for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:06:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <37.48558efc.2ddfad2e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:06:22 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rev war costume, need fast help To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/21/04 1:38:28 PM Central Daylight Time, robin@shell.nightowl.net writes: I'll forward any suggestions on to her. Thanks, folks! --Robin There are a number of commercial patterns (Butterick, Simplicity, McCalls') now available for Revolutionary era garments, especially coats and vests. Personally, in this situation I'd probably rent him a costume. He seems to have a whole bunch of specifications about what he wants, so I'd tell him to get out his credit card and go find it LOL. But if she's handy with her sewing machine, getting the items made won't be hard. I believe on another group (or maybe this one?) someone posted yesterday that JoAnn's has a $.99 pattern sale going on at the moment. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 15:10:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LJALRM005595 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:10:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJ8YNX022448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 13:08:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJ8V0Y029431; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:08:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJ6v0Y028057 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:06:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A34E16970068; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:06:54 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.118]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 21 May 2004 15:06:54 -0400 Message-ID: <001f01c43f67$a233c660$765183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40AE0F07.A8789B85@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Market wallets? Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:12:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 May 2004 19:06:54.0497 (UTC) FILETIME=[C7D3B110:01C43F66] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Are you making a satchel to take marketing, or referring to the small purse with rings that will close the ends of the 'miser's purse popular from the late 1840's. This was a tube of knitted silk; it sometimes incorporated Steele or ceramic beads. It too had a center slit to be closed by the afro mentioned rings. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty Felton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Market wallets? > how does it close? where did you find the pattern or description of > how to make it? it sounds similar to some japanese bags I have seen > patterns for. Kitty > > Lauren Walker wrote: > > > > Hello, > > I'm making an 18th-century style "market wallet" -- a sort of two-ended bag > > that opens through a slit in the middle. I've seen them referred to in the > > early 19th century, too, but has anybody got any idea how far back they go? > > Such a functional design could easily be quite old, but then again, maybe > > not. > > > > Any thoughts? > > Thanks, > > Lauren > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 15:13:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LJDaRM005611 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:13:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJBVNX023265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 13:11:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJBU0Y031853; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:11:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJBL0Y031746 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:11:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A45816D30068; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:11:20 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.118]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 21 May 2004 15:11:19 -0400 Message-ID: <002d01c43f68$40430820$765183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:17:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 May 2004 19:11:19.0679 (UTC) FILETIME=[65E340F0:01C43F67] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Re John Proctor, my daughter who has been doing genealogy found a lot of interesting stuff in historical documents held by the town of Danvers, Ma. Good luck, Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:42 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Colonial House > > > Thank you Catherine for making the point about the instruction books for > living. Possibly were not more how life was lived than Martha Stewart et. > al. books. Also have always wondered about all the books and pampletes and > preaching(just about in every belief system)for females to be "chaste, > silent, and obedient." It would have been an expensive waste of paper, ink, > and printing press to supply all this information and advice to the > "converted", so to speak. Except all the how-tos and recipes for food and > medicine are most instructive to us today. > > To be off-topic, I've been researching the Salem witchcraft episode off and > on for years with the aim of writing a historically correct novel. I've > always been most interested in the real John Proctor family, as opposed to > Arthur Miller's interpretation, as the real family was far more > interesting!As well as Mary Warren who disappeared from surviving history > records at the end of the trials. Also, as part of my research, are there > any wills or family inventories as to what the Salem village families wore > in 1692? Modern history tends to put everyone in the Pilgrim and Puritan > styles of 60-70 years earlier. But someone like Elizabeth Proctor I see > wearing more like a mantua, at least for Sabbath best. How far would a > fairly wealthy family, rural but with ties to the seacost town of Salem(the > Proctors attended the Salem Town meetinghouse, not the one Salem Village? > > Cindy Abel > > > > I have found it very interesting how many of the folks on this list > trace their ancestory back to this time. One branch of my family, the > Lewis', also came over the pond in the early 1620's with one of the > first Methodist colonies in Massachusetts. > > While I wish they would be more accurate I still enjoy the 'House' > series. I'm not sure I would do all that much better than some of the > folks in the series but it would be fun to try. I do kind of wonder > however why the Powers-that-be for these series tend to take books from > this time on 'how life should be lived' so seriously (I am thinking, in > particular, of the book on housekeeping that was used in the 1900 House > series). My impression has always been that these were just one way of > living that *someone* felt needed to be reinforced with written > instructions. If everyone was really living this way, no book would > have been required :). > > The corsets are starting to drive me nuts on Colonial House, why the > heck did they not make them so the straps would stay up!!!! > > Catherine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 15:14:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LJErRM005618 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:14:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJE9NX024006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 13:14:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJE70Y033958; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:14:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJE20Y033903 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:14:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lcj4e.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.76.142] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BRFSz-0000OK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:14:02 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200405211804.i4LI3p0a075364@net.indra.com> References: <200405211804.i4LI3p0a075364@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:13:54 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Simplicity Sale MD area... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi The new Simplicity patterns (OK so All of the SImplicity patterns) are on sale for 99 cents this weekend--I just got 1 out of the 3 copies they had in the Belair Joanns of the CW men's patterns... Just be sure you check the price--it is not in the computer yet! Ta Carol -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 15:23:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LJNiRM005674 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:23:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJMaNX025437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 13:22:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJMW0Y040043; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:22:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJMQ0Y039977 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:22:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lcj4e.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.76.142] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BRFb7-0004nS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:22:26 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200405211804.i4LI3p0a075364@net.indra.com> References: <200405211804.i4LI3p0a075364@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:22:16 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: colonial house X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:04 PM -0600 5/21/04, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >The corsets are starting to drive me nuts on Colonial House, why the >heck did they not make them so the straps would stay up!!!! In the interview with the Washington Times, they mentioned that they loosened the stays fairly early on....bet that had a LOT to do with it! Ta Carol--mystery solved on the weird look to the fit. -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 15:28:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LJS6RM005687 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:28:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJPvNX026108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 13:25:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJPv0Y042324; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:25:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJPi0Y042024 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:25:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BRFe8-000Ego-0W; Fri, 21 May 2004 20:25:32 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:22:55 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tailor's References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Historic Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you have any evidence of either term being used in the 12th century? My dictionary lists "tailor" as "C13", but of course no detail as to which end of the 13th century. There is so much development going on in the 12th century, both in increasingly fitted garments and changes in the technology of textile production, leading to it becoming more of a profession and less part of the housework, I suspect those sort of distinctions were not fixed until a bit later. Jean otsisto wrote >In the 12 century, was the title "tailor" a male designation? > >Ex: Tailor = male sewer > Seamstress + female sewer > >Anyone know? > >De >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 15:28:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LJSdRM005693 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:28:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJPnNX026072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 13:25:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJPk0Y042184; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:25:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJPi0Y042025 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:25:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BRFe8-000Ego-0W; Fri, 21 May 2004 20:25:32 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:22:55 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tailor's References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Historic Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you have any evidence of either term being used in the 12th century? My dictionary lists "tailor" as "C13", but of course no detail as to which end of the 13th century. There is so much development going on in the 12th century, both in increasingly fitted garments and changes in the technology of textile production, leading to it becoming more of a profession and less part of the housework, I suspect those sort of distinctions were not fixed until a bit later. Jean otsisto wrote >In the 12 century, was the title "tailor" a male designation? > >Ex: Tailor = male sewer > Seamstress + female sewer > >Anyone know? > >De >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 15:32:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LJWFRM005714 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:32:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJUYNX026944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 13:30:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJUX0Y045538; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:30:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJUJ0Y045362 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:30:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D30FF1D284 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 14:30:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p251.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.253]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A56FFD3F0 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 14:30:17 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Gores versus gussets Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:30:36 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <40AE5133.E88BDD83@floodcity.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What I have been told and keep as a definition: Gussets: are a square to rectangular piece of material that is of bias cut that is inserted in places to give ease to the garment, such as under the arm. Gores: are triangular, quarter circle or half circle material (not necessarily of bias cut) that is inserted to give the garment flare or space in a garment. De -----Original Message----- yes it is confusing. Sometimes I don't know why one term is used over another. as far as I know, a gore is narrow at one end and wide at the other. a gusset is inserted in the middle of a seam. however, it seems you are saying there is some other criteria, which I would be interested in knowing. I am not a professionally trained seamstress, so I have to learn this stuff as I can. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 15:44:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LJimRM005812 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:44:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJhFNX029042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 13:43:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJhC0Y054725; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:43:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80508.mail.yahoo.com (web80508.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4LJh90Y054616 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:43:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040521194304.16202.qmail@web80508.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.104.228.236] by web80508.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 21 May 2004 12:43:04 PDT Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:43:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405211803.i4LI3p0Z075364@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine wrote: > I have found it very interesting how many of the > folks on this list > trace their ancestory back to this time. One branch > of my family, the > Lewis', also came over the pond in the early 1620's > with one of the > first Methodist colonies in Massachusetts. My father's family came over on the York in 1690 and settled in the New Jersey and Pennsylvania colonies; my mother's family came over in the 1730s and settled in the Pennsylvania colony. I'm curious about Methodist colonies in Massachusetts, especially in the early 1620s, as John Wesley wasn't born until 1703, and was an ordained CoE missionary when he arrived in the Georgia colony in 1736. The Methodist movement is considered to have its roots in the transforming religious experiences of John and Charles Wesley in May 1738, after they had returned to England from the Georgia colony. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 15:57:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LJvlRM005870 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:57:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJttNX001176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 13:55:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LJtq0Y063816; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:55:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14007.mail.yahoo.com (web14007.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4LJtk0Y063733 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:55:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040521195545.81253.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.2.27.21] by web14007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 21 May 2004 20:55:45 BST Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:55:45 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costuming Trivia X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Senor Pedro Alvarez de Toledo ,Virrey de Napoles. Who am I? ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 16:21:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LKL2RM005944 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 16:21:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LKJRNX005450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 14:19:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LKJ60Y081184; Fri, 21 May 2004 14:19:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LKIx0Z081030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 14:19:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-106.sonic.net [209.148.112.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4LKItqi008178 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 13:18:56 -0700 Message-ID: <40AE6542.7080401@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:23:30 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gores versus gussets References: <40AE406C.3080707@lavoltapress.com> <40AE5133.E88BDD83@floodcity.net> In-Reply-To: <40AE5133.E88BDD83@floodcity.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The "criteria" is that language changes over time. What you cite below is modern terminology. Nineteenth-century fashion and sewing terminology often differs from modern terminology, and also for different periods of the 19th century. Nor is it always consistent, and this is true of many terms other than "gores" and "gussets." For that matter modern fashion and sewing terminology is not always consistent. It's just that people are less confused by alternative modern terms because they know them already. It is easier for people working with historic costume if they are aware of differences in terms. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Kitty Felton wrote: >yes it is confusing. Sometimes I don't know why one term is used over >another. as far as I know, a gore is narrow at one end and wide at the >other. a gusset is inserted in the middle of a seam. however, it >seems you are saying there is some other criteria, which I would be >interested in knowing. I am not a professionally trained seamstress, >so I have to learn this stuff as I can. > >Kitty > >Lavolta Press wrote: > > >>The terms "gores" and "gussets" are somewhat confusing when applied to >>corsets, because in original 19th-century terminology what we now would >>call "gussets" are often called "gores." Also somewhat confusing when >>applied to skirts, because in original 19th-century terminology >>rectangular sections are sometimes called "gores," particularly when >>some or all of the other skirt sections are shaped. >> >>As I've said before, 19th-century fashion and sewing terminology is by >>no means consistent, and terms are by no means always used the way we >>now use them. >> >>Fran >>Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming >>http://www.lavoltapress.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 16:29:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LKT4RM005965 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 16:29:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LKSONX007139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 14:28:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LKSN0Y088235; Fri, 21 May 2004 14:28:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LKSG0Y088077 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 14:28:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:28:09 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Beta Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:27:53 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm curious about Methodist colonies in Massachusetts, especially in the early 1620s, as John Wesley wasn't born until 1703, and was an ordained CoE missionary when he arrived in the Georgia colony in 1736. The Methodist movement is considered to have its roots in the transforming religious experiences of John and Charles Wesley in May 1738, after they had returned to England from the Georgia colony. Dawn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ooops, my bad. I know part of the family came over from Kent in the 1620's, and where they settled was a Methodist Colony but I had assummed, obviously incorrectly, that was all at the same time. Obviously I am not the sibling doing the geneology research :). Thanks for the information, it will be interesting to do more research on their reasons for coming over so early. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 16:29:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LKTgRM005968 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 16:29:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LKQ9NX006749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 14:26:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LKQ40Y086597; Fri, 21 May 2004 14:26:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LKQ10Y086543 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 14:26:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA18571 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:25:59 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:25:59 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <002d01c43f68$40430820$765183d1@rmitchellras> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE : OT-Proctor family X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:17 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House Kathleen: Does your daughter have an email address and would be willling to share some info she has found in Danvers? Has she been to Salem and are there any sources of 17th costume history at either Danvers or Salem? I live in Omaha NE and will not be able to get enough time off work to travel to Danvers any time soon. Many thanks! Cindy Abel Re John Proctor, my daughter who has been doing genealogy found a lot of interesting stuff in historical documents held by the town of Danvers, Ma. Good luck, Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 17:24:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LLOsRM006218 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:24:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LLOBNX017173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 15:24:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LLO00Y028691; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:24:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav23.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LLNv0Y028590 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:23:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 21 May 2004 14:23:52 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.66 by bay1-dav23.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:23:52 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.66] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:23:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 May 2004 21:23:52.0546 (UTC) FILETIME=[EA2A7420:01C43F79] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4LLOsRM006218 Status: RO I live in Oswego NY. We have this really great Victorian are home that is now a museum. I with a friend took the tour. Why am I foaming at the mouth? Well did you know Victorian women wore 11 pounds of underwear? Did you know they were so off balanced they kept their elbows on the table? Did you know that they had deformed bodies thanks to corsets? I'm so livid I'm shaking. Bice ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 17:26:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LLQKRM006233 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:26:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LLPiNX017417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 15:25:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LLPh0Y029912; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:25:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LLPC0Y029515 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:25:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1ca.218886b2 (16930) for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:24:56 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1ca.218886b2.2ddfcda8@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:24:56 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/21/2004 1:03:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, elvestoorder@yahoo.com writes: > pendantic. You mean pedantic?? ;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 17:37:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LLbcRM006305 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:37:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LLb1NX019260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 15:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LLb00Y037538; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:37:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LLas0Z037469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:36:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4LLad2x003470 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:36:39 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:36:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40AE7675.4050102@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:36:53 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bice wrote: > Well did you know Victorian women wore 11 pounds of underwear? Did > you know they were so off balanced they kept their elbows on the > table? Did you know that they had deformed bodies thanks to corsets? Time to write a letter with citations to the contrary. I wonder how they danced if they were so off balance! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 17:38:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LLcoRM006310 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:38:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LLcINX019427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 15:38:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LLcG0Y038423; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:38:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LLc60Y038199 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:38:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.5b.4f2bec40 (16930) for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:37:58 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <5b.4f2bec40.2ddfd0b6@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:37:58 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gores versus gussets To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/21/2004 3:31:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, otsisto@socket.net writes: > Gussets: are a square to rectangular piece of material that is of bias cut > that is inserted in places to give ease to the garment, such as under the > arm. > Gores: are triangular, quarter circle or half circle material (not > necessarily of bias cut) that is inserted to give the garment flare or space > in a garment. > > De > Interesting. I always think of gussets as being used to make something fit....like on a bodice. But I also always referred to the football shaped piece set in under the arm as a gusset. Gores I always think of for adding fullness, like at the bottom of a skirt or tunic....but with the grain running more or less down the center of the triangular/trapazoidal piece. As opposed to a piece that runs the same grain as the piece it's being sewn to and is an added piece to complete a garment pattern piece that is bigger than the fabric's width. Or a bias triangular piece to add fullness, which I call a godet. Terms! Yikes! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 17:56:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LLuXRM006437 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:56:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LLocNX021252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 15:50:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LLoZ0Y046812; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:50:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LLoX0Y046732 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:50:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1a2.24952a68 (4362) for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:50:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1a2.24952a68.2ddfd39f@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:50:23 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/21/04 4:25:50 PM Central Daylight Time, wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com writes: I'm so livid I'm shaking. Bice Does the museum have any sort of website that could be used to send some correctional information to whoever writes their tour scripts? I can relate. I tend to see stars every time I hear someone say that Henry VIII was a gross fat man who had 8 wives and killed them all. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 18:01:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LM13RM006466 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 18:01:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LM0HNX022853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 16:00:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LM0F0Y053608; Fri, 21 May 2004 16:00:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LM0C0Y053531 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 16:00:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01BD74264B for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:19:40 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40AE7D1C.7020901@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:05:16 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bice wrote: > I live in Oswego NY. We have this really great Victorian are home that is now a museum. I with a friend took the tour. Why am I foaming at the mouth? > > Well did you know Victorian women wore 11 pounds of underwear? Did you know they were so off balanced they kept their elbows on the table? Did you know that they had deformed bodies thanks to corsets? > If it's anything like the one costume exhibit I saw locally a few months back the little old lady volunteer is working off the single 50 year old costume book that hasn't been stolen from the town library and they just don't have better researchers or sources to use. Time for some gentle education, I think. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 18:22:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LMMXRM007065 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 18:22:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LMK8NX025780 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 16:20:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LMK30Y066857; Fri, 21 May 2004 16:20:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from thrednedlestrete.com (mail02.enterhost.com [69.93.13.234]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LMK00Y066746 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 16:20:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:19:55 -0500 Message-Id: <200405211719.AA24510634@thrednedlestrete.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth X-Mailer: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What would your guestimate be of the actual average weight of Victorian underware, I assume pre crinoline? Lisa ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Bice" Reply-To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:23:07 -0400 >I live in Oswego NY. We have this really great Victorian are home that is now a museum. I with a friend took the tour. Why am I foaming at the mouth? > >Well did you know Victorian women wore 11 pounds of underwear? Did you know they were so off balanced they kept their elbows on the table? Did you know that they had deformed bodies thanks to corsets? > >I'm so livid I'm shaking. > >Bice >============================= >http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ >http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie >============================= >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 18:58:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LMwIRM007257 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 18:58:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LMuPNX000848 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 16:56:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LMuL0Y089569; Fri, 21 May 2004 16:56:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav66.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LMuJ0Y089500 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 16:56:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:56:14 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.29 by bay1-dav66.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:56:13 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.29] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1a2.24952a68.2ddfd39f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:53:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 May 2004 22:56:14.0091 (UTC) FILETIME=[D12F1DB0:01C43F86] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No website. None to speak of anyhow. I'm so damn disgusted. I do have a friend I'm waiting to hear from who is of the local aristocracy and I'm hoping she knows someone who is a director there. They need a class on Victorian clothing. I'm still rapid over this. Granted I don't know *everything* about this era but this era was my thing before I got into medieval era clothing. This man pushing 80 who just spouted out a fount of misinformation pointing to lovely paintings of women on the beach and playing cards citing them leaning on tables because they needed to balance themselves. ARGH!!!!!! ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- Time to write a letter with citations to the contrary. I wonder how they danced if they were so off balance! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth > In a message dated 5/21/04 4:25:50 PM Central Daylight Time, > wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com writes: > I'm so livid I'm shaking. > > Bice > > Does the museum have any sort of website that could be used to send some > correctional information to whoever writes their tour scripts? > > I can relate. I tend to see stars every time I hear someone say that Henry > VIII was a gross fat man who had 8 wives and killed them all. > > -Tiffany > Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. > ******************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 19:08:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LN87RM007789 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 19:08:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LN51NX002067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 17:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LN500Y094574; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:05:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LN4v0Y094496 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:04:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from archaeosoft1 (c-24-16-245-183.client.comcast.net[24.16.245.183]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004052123045001200fj376e>; Fri, 21 May 2004 23:04:50 +0000 Message-ID: <005901c43f88$05019b30$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> From: "Gia" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:04:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO uhh... **blink...blink** (insert incredulous stare) Yes, I would say some serious education would not be too soon...Any one here up to the challenge? It's not my period, but wow! Emer \ Gia __________________ Well did you know Victorian women wore 11 pounds of underwear? Did you know they were so off balanced they kept their elbows on the table? Did you know that they had deformed bodies thanks to corsets? I'm so livid I'm shaking. Bice ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 19:16:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LNGXRM007857 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 19:16:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LNFwNX003386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 17:15:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LNFs0Y000716; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:15:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LNFq0Y000691 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:15:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-93-172.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.172]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4LNFhbF021631 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 18:15:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040521161651.02268ca0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:17:02 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming Trivia In-Reply-To: <20040521195545.81253.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Senor Pedro Alvarez de Toledo ,Virrey de Napoles. > >Who am I? http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=%22Pedro+Alvarez+de+Toledo %22&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D13785d2 d44cad4f2%26clickedItemRank%3D1%26userQuery%3D%2522Pedro%2BAlvarez%2Bde%2BTo ledo%2522%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.campnet.it%252Faziendatu rismo%252Fpozzuoli%252Farticoli2003%252Fottobre_eng.htm%26invocationType%3D- %26fromPage%3DNSCPIndex2%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cam pnet.it%2Faziendaturismo%2Fpozzuoli%2Farticoli2003%2Fottobre_eng.htm CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 19:31:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LNVSRM008029 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 19:31:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LNTdNX005112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 17:29:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LNTa0Y008137; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:29:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LNTX0Z008078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:29:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from acty5029.dialup.dandy.net (enif.dandy.net [209.128.224.51]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i4LNTVni000703 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 19:29:31 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: leigh tartaglio Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:55:45 -0400 X-Sender: mikes@mail.dandy.net X-Originating-Host: acty5029.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.250.29]; Fri, 21 May 2004 23:29:35 GMT X-Mailer: Mailreader.com v2.3.26 (2000-10-5) X-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0, JavaScript: On Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. I am just getting back online after a little bit of computer probs. I was rather disappointed with Colonial House. The minister is worried about the word "crap", but all of his people are running around in their underwear! Be serious! They should all be whipped at the carttail for indecency. They made no attempt at a number of things that would have been regular occurrences in the period. They mostly tried to make it into a reality show without anyone learning a whole lot about the period, except for the immersion they got at Plimoth. No one is trying at all to live the "period life" if you will, but they are trying to force the period world to conform to their modern preconceptions and values, especially the post-60s warm and fuzzy historical rewrties. The eyeglasses are jarring, they should have done something else. One other thing that should raise a firestorm, but in my remembrance, even the late great Janet Arnold wasn't convinced of the universality of wearing boned stays, especially among the working classes, at this period. If it weren't for some of the more interesting bits, I'd turn the whole sad thing off. I have a large event in a few weeks, I can't wait to spend the day talking "Colonial House" with the punters. Oh, Well! Cheers, Mike T. =================================================================== EASY access to your email http://webmail.dandy.net/mr2/nph-mr.cgi =================================================================== _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 19:36:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LNaZRM008059 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 19:36:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LNZmNX005926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 17:35:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LNZm0Y011288; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:35:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LNZk0Y011222 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:35:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from 39jz301 ([69.195.101.238]) by fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040521233537.MDYD392202.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 19:35:37 -0400 Message-ID: <006401c43f8c$56cd6850$ee65c345@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tailor's Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:35:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [69.195.101.238] using ID at Fri, 21 May 2004 19:35:37 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings > Do you have any evidence of either term being used in the 12th century? > My dictionary lists "tailor" as "C13", but of course no detail as to > which end of the 13th century. Definitely by 1264. The accounts of Eleanor, Countess of Leicester include several references to "Hick the Tailor," who made a number of trips to London on her behalf to acquire cloth, as well as repairing and making clothing for her. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 19:41:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4LNfqRM008120 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 19:41:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LNf8NX006621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 17:41:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LNf50Y013941; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:41:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LNf10Y013881 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:41:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from 39jz301 ([69.195.101.238]) by fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040521233843.VARR397914.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 19:38:43 -0400 Message-ID: <007e01c43f8d$13e6d4d0$ee65c345@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tailor's Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:41:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [69.195.101.238] using ID at Fri, 21 May 2004 19:38:43 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > Do you have any evidence of either term being used in the 12th century? > My dictionary lists "tailor" as "C13", but of course no detail as to > which end of the 13th century. Oh, forgot another reference. I did a survey of personal names in Essex documents from 1189-1272 a few years ago, and also recorded some of the personal names. While I don't have the actual source right at hand, the surname or occupational name "le Taillur/Tayllur/Taylor" does appear during this period. No clue as to male or female--but the term certainly exists at this point. The fact that it's used with the masculine "le" may be a marker, although surnames are in flux at this point, moving from being occupational bynames to inherited ones. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 20:14:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M0EHRM008247 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 20:14:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M0CRNX010816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 18:12:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M0CO0Y029717; Fri, 21 May 2004 18:12:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M0CM0Z029666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 18:12:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06952326pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.140.8.214]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23BB115E57 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:12:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Simplicity Sale MD area... Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:23:30 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was at JoAnn's today, and Simplicity was the only pattern company NOT on sale for 99cents or 75% off(Vogue). Where is the sale??? -Megan -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of fastusminimus Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:14 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: Simplicity Sale MD area... Hi The new Simplicity patterns (OK so All of the SImplicity patterns) are on sale for 99 cents this weekend--I just got 1 out of the 3 copies they had in the Belair Joanns of the CW men's patterns... Just be sure you check the price--it is not in the computer yet! Ta Carol -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 21:09:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M19fRM008446 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:09:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M16SNX018260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 19:06:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M16I0Y055469; Fri, 21 May 2004 19:06:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from copper.caltel.com (ns5.caltel.com [205.214.42.66] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4M15w0Y055284 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 19:06:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from willowcreek@caltel.com) Received: (qmail 4849 invoked from network); 22 May 2004 01:05:55 -0000 Received: from max617.caltel.com (HELO caltel.com) (209.101.254.175) by 0 with SMTP; 22 May 2004 01:05:55 -0000 Message-ID: <40AEA7B6.7060805@caltel.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:07:02 -0700 From: Amy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume Trivia (Amy) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Uh.... Zorro? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 21:21:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M1LARM008513 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:21:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M1KVNX019142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 19:20:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M1KU0Y061860; Fri, 21 May 2004 19:20:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M1KO0Y061726 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 19:20:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.211]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4M1K3Qu001926 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:20:06 +1000 Message-ID: <000201c43f9a$886bdbe0$d390d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com><000201c43e4f$c5baaae0$2891d6cb@ewalpole> <40ACB8A8.7000501@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:43:56 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:54 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series > Yes, we did get Edwardian House--it's one of my favorites. I've seen it > two or three times, now--my station occasionally does it as reruns, > along with the Iron Age one, and one done in Canada with homesteaders. > Haven't seen 1900 House or the new one done in Jane Austin's day yet, > though. Local station made a fairly big deal about Pioneer House, > because it was filmed locally (well, relatively locally, Montana's a big > state). > --sue > Well you can expect an offering from Australia called 'outback house' sometime in the future (rather similar to frontier house, it's set during the 19th century expansion of European colonisation towards the centre of the continent), the recruiting process began around February-March, so it will be a while before it hits the TV screens here let alone over there, it certainly will be interesting to see if there are any differences, as there will be a cultural difference but a similar setting. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 21:32:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M1WfRM008585 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:32:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M1W1NX019799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 19:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M1Vx0Y066890; Fri, 21 May 2004 19:32:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M1Vt0Y066838 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 19:31:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.211]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4M1VqFo002677 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:31:52 +1000 Message-ID: <001b01c43f9c$2becbe00$d390d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6b.2a15e09b.2ddf7865@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:29:01 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns > In a message dated 5/21/2004 10:34:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, > basyefelton@floodcity.net writes: > Personally, every corset, regardless of cut, looks better on someone who has > some flesh to move around. Actually I found that really funny about the fashion for corset about a year or 2 ago, the supermodels walking down the catwalk looked dreadful because you can't move around skin and bone.*g* Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 22:22:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M2MJRM008732 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:22:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M2LZNX023126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 20:21:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M2LT0Y089537; Fri, 21 May 2004 20:21:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound3.mail.tds.net (outbound3.mail.tds.net [216.170.230.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M2LQ0Y089504 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 20:21:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bobd2@tellink.net) Received: from host (h69-21-249-146.69-21.unk.tds.net [69.21.249.146]) by outbound3.mail.tds.net (8.12.10/8.12.2) with SMTP id i4M2LHkl015438 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:21:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <00c701c43fa2$ddb9a700$0201a8c0@domain> From: "bobd2" To: References: <200405211957.i4LJv70Z064659@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 22:16:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Rev war costume, need fast help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm glad I know something about this one. I've used the Simplicity 5958 Costume pattern. The vest goes together easily. If your friend has a serger, her life will be much easier. I attach the lining, to each individual piece, on the outside edges (non-seams) Press the snot out of it so that it behaves like a single piece of fabric again. Serge the seam edges. Then stitch together. It looks good, and goes together quickly. It's also easier to alter (yes, the vest looks better and more authentic if it's fitted a little closer then illustrated) Based on the photos I've seen of vests and coats from that time, I don't think the pattern has enough buttonholes and have added 5 more, changing the spacing accordingly. A stiffer material for the fashion layer (and carry it around to the back as well) and a heavy weight for the lining look best to me, but that could be my bias, as it's not based on research. I'm currently making another vest from the pattern for myself this time. And I'm doing enough embroidery on it to make it fear for its life. I'm using a medium weight upholstery brocade and embroidering over the pattern, down the front and along the bottom, with heavier embroidery at the bottom of the front opening. There's a group of more authentic patterns for this, but I've found the armholes, while probably authentic, are seriously binding. Hope this helps her, Bob Dorr > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:38:52 -0500 (CDT) > From: Robin Netherton > Subject: [h-cost] Rev war costume, need fast help > To: Historic Costume List > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > An e-friend of mine in California asked me for advice on something that's > so far out of my period I have no clue what to tell her. So I'm asking you > folks. > > Her message is below, with some further elaboration based on my questions > to her. She needs to be able to adapt materials-on-hand for husband and > child (age 10) on short notice, for a one-shot deal, so accurate kit is > not required, just something that has basically the right look. > > Her message: > > << > My daughter is doing a Revolutionary War reenactment next week at school > and my husband, Brian, is going to be there as a chaperone. They both > need costumes, and my husband wants something special. The school > suggests dark pants, white baggy shirt, long white knee socks, coat/vest > optional. However, Brian has done some research on the pants and think > khaki or other light colored pants would be best. Also, he wants me to > take a pair of pants and make him some breetches. He wants a vest too, > but he says it has to be sewn because modern vests won't work. Plus > they want hats (he's found a web source). > ... > I can sew some, but I'm not sure I could make a vest, say, without a > pattern. But I could do it if I had a pattern. I was hoping I could > take a shirt and then modify that. > > The encampment happens next Thursday, so I don't have a lot of time. > > Rachel is going to go as a soldier. > > Brian has ordered 2 hats, a shirt for him, and socks for him. I thought > that Rachel could wear her tan capri pants. If possible, I could do a > vest for each of them, and modify some khakis to make breeches for Brian. > So those are probably the items that I want advice on. > >> > > I'll forward any suggestions on to her. > > Thanks, folks! > > --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 22:26:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M2QDRM008743 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:26:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M2PbNX023455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 20:25:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M2Pb0Y091484; Fri, 21 May 2004 20:25:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f7.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M2PY0Y091413 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 20:25:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 21 May 2004 19:25:26 -0700 Received: from 129.244.96.81 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 22 May 2004 02:25:25 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.81] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:25:25 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2004 02:25:26.0369 (UTC) FILETIME=[0AECBD10:01C43FA4] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Catching up - was Colonial House series. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm sorry for the delay, my email access it being a bit hinky lately... Let's see -- my ancestors -- if memory serves the 4 were 4 men and 1 woman, 2 convictions, 2 acquittals. Of the convictions, Mary Sanford was hung, and James Wakely escaped to spend the next 20 years trying to divorce his wife (when he was convicted all his property was confiscated, since he didn't die she couldn't remarry). The accquitals were Andrew Sanford and William Meeker. I was under the impression that Goodie Bassett was hung in Stratford in 1651. OTOH, Stratford is in Fairfield County, and I tend to think of is as a separate place from Fairfield proper, but I bet it isn't any more :) My information has Mary Staples being acquitted and her accuser Robert Ludlow being fined 20 Pounds for defamation - since that was -also- a crime; but yes, I misspoke. =================== Just as an amusing aside, according to the Middle English Dictionary, a "Gore" is a an inlet, like a long thin bay, and a triangular insert of material in clothing :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 22:38:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M2cBRM008765 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:38:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M2aGNX023947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 20:36:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M2aF0Y096086; Fri, 21 May 2004 20:36:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M2aC0Y096057 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 20:36:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AC9AB5C00B4; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:36:10 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.103]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 21 May 2004 22:36:10 -0400 Message-ID: <002901c43fa6$65d20440$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40AE406C.3080707@lavoltapress.com><40AE5133.E88BDD83@floodcity.net> <40AE6542.7080401@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gores versus gussets Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 22:42:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2004 02:36:10.0626 (UTC) FILETIME=[8AEE8E20:01C43FA5] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My understanding has been that gussets are enclosed in a seam and that gores are open-ended. I realize that even these definitions will change according to the garment that needs to be 'vented'. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gores versus gussets > The "criteria" is that language changes over time. What you cite below > is modern terminology. Nineteenth-century fashion and sewing > terminology often differs from modern terminology, and also for > different periods of the 19th century. Nor is it always consistent, and > this is true of many terms other than "gores" and "gussets." For that > matter modern fashion and sewing terminology is not always consistent. > It's just that people are less confused by alternative modern terms > because they know them already. It is easier for people working with > historic costume if they are aware of differences in terms. > > Fran > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > Kitty Felton wrote: > > >yes it is confusing. Sometimes I don't know why one term is used over > >another. as far as I know, a gore is narrow at one end and wide at the > >other. a gusset is inserted in the middle of a seam. however, it > >seems you are saying there is some other criteria, which I would be > >interested in knowing. I am not a professionally trained seamstress, > >so I have to learn this stuff as I can. > > > >Kitty > > > >Lavolta Press wrote: > > > > > >>The terms "gores" and "gussets" are somewhat confusing when applied to > >>corsets, because in original 19th-century terminology what we now would > >>call "gussets" are often called "gores." Also somewhat confusing when > >>applied to skirts, because in original 19th-century terminology > >>rectangular sections are sometimes called "gores," particularly when > >>some or all of the other skirt sections are shaped. > >> > >>As I've said before, 19th-century fashion and sewing terminology is by > >>no means consistent, and terms are by no means always used the way we > >>now use them. > >> > >>Fran > >>Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > >>http://www.lavoltapress.com > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>h-costume mailing list > >>h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >> > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 22:43:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M2hVRM008788 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:43:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M2gaNX024228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 20:42:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M2gY0Y098791; Fri, 21 May 2004 20:42:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M2gR0Y098741 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 20:42:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.98] (pm7-098.eos.net [205.133.149.98]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M2gNtc027187 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:42:24 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 22:41:13 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200405211803.i4LI3p0Z075364@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 354 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 5/21/04 2:03 PM, kelly at h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > and Amish > The Amish broke off from the Mennonites though while still in Europe. Hey, that's a show i'd like to see! "Amish House!" I guess you couldn't film it, though. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 22:45:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M2jLRM008794 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:45:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M2iKNX024303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 20:44:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M2iJ0Y099516; Fri, 21 May 2004 20:44:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M2iG0Y099501 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 20:44:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AE80B9100B4; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:44:16 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.103]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 21 May 2004 22:44:15 -0400 Message-ID: <003101c43fa7$871057a0$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE : OT-Proctor family Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 22:50:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2004 02:44:15.0845 (UTC) FILETIME=[AC251950:01C43FA6] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I will ask my daughter what the major sources were re costume and genealogy stuff. I vaguely remember that she had to subscribe to the 'library' or archives to access some of the material. But that it is available on line. Also, the Mormon archives have a lot of stuff on line now, that may be usable for your project. It may cost you a membership, but I think it would be worth it...certainly cheaper that actual travel. kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:25 PM Subject: [h-cost] RE : OT-Proctor family > > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:17 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House > > Kathleen: > > Does your daughter have an email address and would be willling to share some > info she has found in Danvers? Has she been to Salem and are there any > sources of 17th costume history at either Danvers or Salem? > > I live in Omaha NE and will not be able to get enough time off work to > travel to Danvers any time soon. > > Many thanks! > > Cindy Abel > > Re John Proctor, my daughter who has been doing genealogy found a lot of > interesting stuff in historical documents held by the town of Danvers, Ma. > Good luck, > Kathleen > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 23:01:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M31gRM008937 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 23:01:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M315NX025087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 21:01:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M3140Y006758; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:01:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M3110Y006707 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:01:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20040522030056015007irqke>; Sat, 22 May 2004 03:00:56 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:00:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I was working on a degree in Popular Culture Studies, one of our professors (I think the one who was on the board at Williamsburg) just repeated over and over again, "Don't listen to docents. They're very nice, but they are almost always volunteers with no training, and nothing they say can be counted upon." His favorite example was being told that a Federal-period house was built with wide interior doorways to accommodate crinolines, which, of course, were not in style for another 30 years. While I sympathize utterly with your froth, I do find this mantra has allowed me to visit more historic houses without committing assault or having a heart attack. "They're nice, they mean well, they don't know anything. They're nice, they mean well, they don't know anything. They're nice, they mean well..." Lauren > From: "Bice" > I live in Oswego NY. We have this really great Victorian are home that is now > a museum. I with a friend took the tour. Why am I foaming at the mouth? > > Well did you know Victorian women wore 11 pounds of underwear? Did you know > they were so off balanced they kept their elbows on the table? Did you know > that they had deformed bodies thanks to corsets? > > I'm so livid I'm shaking. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 23:02:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M32eRM008940 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 23:02:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M327NX025142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 21:02:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M3260Y007233; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:02:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M31R0Y006917 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:01:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C3B34264A for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:21:00 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40AEC3BD.5060402@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 22:06:37 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Simplicity Sale MD area... References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Megan M. wrote: > I was at JoAnn's today, and Simplicity was the only pattern company NOT on > sale for 99cents or 75% off(Vogue). Where is the sale??? > -Megan According to my sale flyers Butterick and McCall's are 99 cents this weekend at Joann's with Vogue 75% off. McCall's are $1.99 at Hancock's. Memorial Day weekend the sale at Joann's is 99 cent Simplicity. June 3-5 Butterick and McCall's are on sale again at Joann's. Vogue is 75% off. I encourage folks to get on the mailing list for both stores. You can also visit their websites and view the sale flyers online. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 23:17:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M3HPRM008983 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 23:17:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M3GmNX025806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 21:16:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M3Gl0Y013570; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:16:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M3Gj0Y013488 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:16:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20040522031639015007mdmre>; Sat, 22 May 2004 03:16:39 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:15:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Market wallets? From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <40AE0F07.A8789B85@floodcity.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Kitty, Hi, Kathleen, The wallet closes by being twisted in the middle, sort of the way my cousin used to make diapers small enough for her newborn son by twisting the part that went betwixt his teensy legs. The thing I find spiffy about the market wallet is that the opening is just a lengthwise slit; it gets closed in use by the twist and going over the shoulder. My wallet is about 14" wide by about 40" long. Didn't find or use a pattern, but modeled it off of this one: http://www.18cnewenglandlife.org/18cNEL/wallets.htm#Market%20Wallet modified to fit my gear and my height and the size of the piece of hemp canvas I had. As you can see from the picture, the wallet has one long seam, down the middle of one face, and two short ones, across the ends -- an amazingly utilitarian design. I think in original ones, the seam with the slit was probably selvedge, and may have been left unfinished, but the piece of cloth I used had unfinished selvedges, so I hemmed the slit. Actually due to the shape of my fabric, I used the selvedeges for the short ends, so I had to hem the slit anyway. I used flat-fell seams and a heavy, doubled waxed thread; by the end I was wishing for a sailmaker's leather palm. But I wanted something that would look, and with luck actually BE, rugged. Lauren > From: Kitty Felton > > how does it close? where did you find the pattern or description of > how to make it? it sounds similar to some japanese bags I have seen > patterns for. Kitty >From Kathleen/Lloyd Mitchell > Are you making a satchel to take marketing, or referring to the small purse > with rings that will close the ends of the 'miser's purse popular from the > late 1840's. This was a tube of knitted silk; it sometimes incorporated > Steele or ceramic beads. It too had a center slit to be closed by the afro > mentioned rings. > Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 23:34:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M3YNRM009005 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 23:34:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M3XlNX026585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 21:33:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M3Xj0Y020966; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:33:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M3Xe0Y020898 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:33:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.d1.d40b278 (16633) for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 23:33:30 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 23:33:30 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5027 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/21/2004 11:02:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, lauren.walker@comcast.net writes: Don't listen to docents. They're very nice, but they are almost always volunteers with no training, and nothing they say can be counted upon." Ahem!!! Our docents do receive training, and I started as a docent. But still, I sometimes hear my very own docents say things that make me shudder and wonder where in the world they got that from--not from the training, I know. I don't train them myself, but I know the training they get. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 23:58:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M3wCRM009105 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 23:58:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M3vcNX027759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 21:57:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M3va0Y031423; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:57:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail7.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail7.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M3vY0Y031404 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:57:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@cybergal.com) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) by mail7.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4M3vXP1003462 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 03:57:34 GMT Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.49.232]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:57:32 -0500 From: "A.Thurman" To: Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 23:57:27 -0400 Message-ID: <03bb01c43fb0$e651a1c0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Rcpt-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: JoAnn's pattern sales X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've found that different stores/regions have their sales at different times, at least as far as the JoAnn's chain goes. Go to their website and look up the flyers by your store location to be absolutely sure what's on sale when! Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 21 23:59:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M3xeRM009110 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 23:59:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M3x5NX027821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 21:59:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M3wf0Y031888; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:59:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav68.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.203]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M3w80Y031636 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:58:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 21 May 2004 20:58:03 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.48 by bay1-dav68.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 22 May 2004 03:58:03 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.48] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200405211719.AA24510634@thrednedlestrete.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:03:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2004 03:58:03.0130 (UTC) FILETIME=[FB032DA0:01C43FB0] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A guess for this era? Well we are talking 1875 to 1890 for the main theme of this house or so I'd say maybe lbs. if that. Underwear was not as complicated as the average layman would have you think. Yeah some of those bustles could get heavy but they were not an everyday thing. I've never seen a really heavy corset and I have seen a LOT of extant to this era ones. Backless drawers (which he had never even heard of) cut down on potty issues. A chemise possibly a corset cover. The heaviest part to this era was the dress and even then that wasn't daily. Women in this house didn't run around in 50lbs of velvet all day. Wrappers for morning the occasional bombazine afternoon gown and it was upper middle class and they didn't throw parties often so I find it unlikely that there were too many heavy velvet ball gowns. The one woman Harriet who was a divorced daughter in the 1880's with one son had migraines and mental problems. She didn't receive. She could have very likely have kept to very basic clothing. The mother was fashionable and married around 1850 so by the time the 1880's rolled around she probably wasn't as involved in fashion anymore. ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth > What would your guestimate be of the actual average weight of Victorian underware, I assume pre crinoline? > > Lisa > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "Bice" > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:23:07 -0400 > > >I live in Oswego NY. We have this really great Victorian are home that is now a museum. I with a friend took the tour. Why am I foaming at the mouth? > > > >Well did you know Victorian women wore 11 pounds of underwear? Did you know they were so off balanced they kept their elbows on the table? Did you know that they had deformed bodies thanks to corsets? > > > >I'm so livid I'm shaking. > > > >Bice > >============================= > >http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ > >http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie > >============================= > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 00:03:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M438RM009127 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:03:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M42VNX027982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 22:02:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M42S0Y033420; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:02:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav61.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.196]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M42Q0Y033372 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:02:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:02:21 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.48 by bay1-dav61.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 22 May 2004 04:02:21 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.48] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 00:01:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2004 04:02:21.0341 (UTC) FILETIME=[94EB0CD0:01C43FB1] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I tried that. I really did. I kept saying he's old he doesn't know any better he's doing the best he can. Then he made a remark about corsets and reproduction organs and I simply walked out of the room to catch my breath and temper. There were other appalling faux pas that I'm just disturbed over. They take classes through this place!! And this area is a very cliquish sort of place so I doubt I can even get an "in" to even teach a class. As I said before I'm not in the realm of knowledge of some of ladies here but at least I know that compared to this guy I'm a freaking genius. ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lauren Walker" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth > When I was working on a degree in Popular Culture Studies, one of our > professors (I think the one who was on the board at Williamsburg) just > repeated over and over again, "Don't listen to docents. They're very nice, > but they are almost always volunteers with no training, and nothing they say > can be counted upon." His favorite example was being told that a > Federal-period house was built with wide interior doorways to accommodate > crinolines, which, of course, were not in style for another 30 years. > > While I sympathize utterly with your froth, I do find this mantra has > allowed me to visit more historic houses without committing assault or > having a heart attack. "They're nice, they mean well, they don't know > anything. They're nice, they mean well, they don't know anything. They're > nice, they mean well..." > > Lauren > > > > From: "Bice" > > > I live in Oswego NY. We have this really great Victorian are home that is now > > a museum. I with a friend took the tour. Why am I foaming at the mouth? > > > > Well did you know Victorian women wore 11 pounds of underwear? Did you know > > they were so off balanced they kept their elbows on the table? Did you know > > that they had deformed bodies thanks to corsets? > > > > I'm so livid I'm shaking. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 00:16:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M4GcRM009196 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:16:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M4DnNX028477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 22:13:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M4Dg0Y038001; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:13:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M4Dd0Y037974 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:13:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i4M4DcPH029089 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:13:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.213] (tnt-1-277.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.213]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M4DX63029029 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20040521180103.M49845@alfalfapress.com> References: <83.c689f19.2ddf625d@aol.com> <20040521163746.90458.qmail@web20728.mail.yahoo.com> <20040521180103.M49845@alfalfapress.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:43:44 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] article on early medieval embroidery stitches Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 1:01 PM -0500 5/21/04, Althea Turner wrote: >Greetings all, > >I have been looking through my notes for a citation on an article but can't >find it. It was on known embroidery stitches in northern europe 400-800 (ish) > >Does anyone know of such an article/website/book? Am I going crazy and >imagining the reference? *laughs* Any chance this is what you were thinking of? http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/asvembroid.html >Is there a similar article on seam/stitches? My "archaeological sewing" article includes this era, although I don't recall offhand how many specific examples I have from that span. There's a text-only version of if up on Cynthia Virtue's site at the moment, but I expect to have my own site up Real Soon Now (i.e., within a couple months) which will have the version with the figures. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 00:16:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M4GZRM009197 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:16:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M4EjNX028499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 22:14:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M4Ej0Y038394; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:14:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M4Dg0Y038004 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:13:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i4M4DfPH029101 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.213] (tnt-1-277.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.213]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M4DX65029029 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <40AE0F07.A8789B85@floodcity.net> References: <40AE0F07.A8789B85@floodcity.net> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:49:49 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Market wallets? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Lauren Walker wrote: >> >> Hello, >> I'm making an 18th-century style "market wallet" -- a sort of two-ended bag >> that opens through a slit in the middle. I've seen them referred to in the >> early 19th century, too, but has anybody got any idea how far back they go? >> Such a functional design could easily be quite old, but then again, maybe > > not. I suspect you're talking about something purse-sized, but the same general structure on a much larger scale is seen in medieval art -- basically a long tube, closed off square at both ends, with a short lengthwise opening in the middle. My guess is that it originated as a type of saddlebags, although you also see people carrying them over one shoulder. They seem to be associated particularly with field-workers, pilgrims (or other travelers), and beggars. But, as I say, I suspect you're asking about something much smaller, and I don't recall having seen medieval examples of that. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 00:33:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M4XKRM009245 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:33:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M4WiNX029305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 22:32:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M4Wg0Y045449; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:32:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M4Wc0Y045381 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:32:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.36]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4M4WO4J012468 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 14:32:31 +1000 Message-ID: <002d01c43fb5$68c52ec0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <83.c689f19.2ddf625d@aol.com> <1250.198.93.211.56.1085150010.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 14:11:21 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, one more question (for now), for those that have used these patterns what did you use for boning? are the boning channels straight enough to use flat steels? or will I need spiral steel? The general consensus seems to be that they turn out too big, for those that did find them too big did you check your measurements against the pattern envelope, or did you just go with your normal size? I just want to check if their printed measurements are off or whether they are a different size to normal patterns. Thanks Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 00:35:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M4ZKRM009257 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:35:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M4XUNX029345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 22:33:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M4XU0Y045721; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:33:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M4Wc0Y045354 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:32:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.36]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4M4WO4H012468 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 14:32:26 +1000 Message-ID: <002c01c43fb5$652a06a0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1a2.24952a68.2ddfd39f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 12:10:17 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth > No website. None to speak of anyhow. I'm so damn disgusted. I do have a > friend I'm waiting to hear from who is of the local aristocracy and I'm > hoping she knows someone who is a director there. They need a class on > Victorian clothing. I'm still rapid over this. Granted I don't know > *everything* about this era but this era was my thing before I got into > medieval era clothing. This man pushing 80 who just spouted out a fount of > misinformation pointing to lovely paintings of women on the beach and > playing cards citing them leaning on tables because they needed to balance > themselves. ARGH!!!!!! Really isn't that one of the cardinal rules of Victorian table manners, _DON'T_ put your elbows on the table. The whole off balance thing is something new to me, I've heard the 'underwear was heavy and deformed your body' argument but "they couldn't keep their balance" is just so ludicrous I can't even work out how somebody would come up with it. The other 2 are loosely based on fact (there was more underwear than today, it was heavier, and some women did tightlace to the extreme) but the whole, being so off balance they couldn't even sit down without leaning on something is so totally off base I can't even see where you would find it's origin. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 00:56:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M4u2RM009394 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:56:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M4tTNX000503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 22:55:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M4tQ0Y054251; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:55:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M4tN0Y054224 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:55:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i4M4tMPH023328 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:55:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.213] (tnt-1-277.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.213]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M4tJ61023276 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 21:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:50:49 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Market wallets? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:15 AM -0400 5/22/04, Lauren Walker wrote: >Hi, Kitty, Hi, Kathleen, >The wallet closes by being twisted in the middle, sort of the way my cousin >used to make diapers small enough for her newborn son by twisting the part >that went betwixt his teensy legs. The thing I find spiffy about the market >wallet is that the opening is just a lengthwise slit; it gets closed in use >by the twist and going over the shoulder. > >My wallet is about 14" wide by about 40" long. Didn't find or use a pattern, >but modeled it off of this one: > >http://www.18cnewenglandlife.org/18cNEL/wallets.htm#Market%20Wallet > >modified to fit my gear and my height and the size of the piece of hemp >canvas I had. Ah, ok, that _is_ the lineal descendent of the bags I was describing in my previous post. I'm not having any luck finding examples on-line at the moment, but the examples I use as comparative material in my article on shepherds purses are: - scene of reapers from Egerton MS 2019 - scenes of mowers and reapers from the Hours of Henry VIII - travelers in an annunciation scene in frescos at Atri, Italy I've found examples of the style at least as early as the 14th century, and they're fairly common in the 15-16th centuries. (My research on this project doesn't go much beyond the 16th c. because the artifact I'm focusing on doesn't show up much beyond that.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 01:32:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M5W8RM009541 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 01:32:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M5VWNX002762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 May 2004 23:31:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M5VT0Y069205; Fri, 21 May 2004 23:31:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M5VQ0Y069190 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 23:31:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.36]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4M5VOT4016742 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:31:24 +1000 Message-ID: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200405211719.AA24510634@thrednedlestrete.com> Subject: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:28:35 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth > What would your guestimate be of the actual average weight of Victorian underware, I assume pre crinoline? > > Lisa Well I just weighed my Elizabethan underwear (corset, smock and petticoat) and it weighs somewhere between 1 and 2 lbs. (bathroom scales aren't that accurate for small measures) I'd expect Victorian Underwear would be a similar weight, extra petticoats or a steel crinoline would maybe up to double that, but 11 lbs is way too much, that's heavier than all but a few new-born babies! Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 02:03:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M63FRM009862 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 02:03:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M62ZNX004496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 00:02:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M62W0Y081014; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:02:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M62T0Y080967 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:02:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a230.in-tch.com [66.62.107.30]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4M5cTe22821 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 23:38:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AEEDD0.7090605@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 00:06:08 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing slashed material- paned vs slashed References: <005201c43e8a$fc41dbc0$1902a8c0@duncan> <20040520140207.13832.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> <40ACDA61.6020109@in-tch.com> <005201c43e8a$fc41dbc0$1902a8c0@duncan> <4.2.2.20040521061438.01ef3c08@pop.surewest.net> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20040521061438.01ef3c08@pop.surewest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That sounds *really* familiar...not to big, multi-story, with this sort of central opening? (almost like an atrium, but smaller?) Used to be somebody's home, IIRC? --sue Joan Jurancich wrote: > At 10:37 PM 5/20/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >> The one I saw was in Sacramento--I forget the name of the museum, but >> I'm sure there are others on the list who will remember for me. >> And I got to see it *really* close--I was about 6 inches away from it, >> which was like being 6 inches away from the holy grail or something, >> at least for me ! > Was it the Crocker Museum? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 02:09:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M69FRM010714 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 02:09:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M68pNX004755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 00:08:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M68o0Y083647; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:08:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M68l0Y083608 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:08:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m8.in-tch.com [216.166.191.8]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4M5ine25344 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 23:44:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AEEF28.3090908@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 00:11:52 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My guess is, they got limited instruction in how to wear them properly--it looked as if the costumers spent some time fitting the clothing properly, but I do remember at least one back view of one of the adult women, in which the back edges were several inches apart (more so towards the waist than the bust), which indicated to me that it was been worn too loosely. I've never worn stays with shoulder straps on them, but I wonder if something like that could have an effect... --sue Catherine Kinsey wrote: > I have found it very interesting how many of the folks on this list > trace their ancestory back to this time. One branch of my family, the > Lewis', also came over the pond in the early 1620's with one of the > first Methodist colonies in Massachusetts. > > While I wish they would be more accurate I still enjoy the 'House' > series. I'm not sure I would do all that much better than some of the > folks in the series but it would be fun to try. I do kind of wonder > however why the Powers-that-be for these series tend to take books from > this time on 'how life should be lived' so seriously (I am thinking, in > particular, of the book on housekeeping that was used in the 1900 House > series). My impression has always been that these were just one way of > living that *someone* felt needed to be reinforced with written > instructions. If everyone was really living this way, no book would > have been required :). > > The corsets are starting to drive me nuts on Colonial House, why the > heck did they not make them so the straps would stay up!!!! > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 02:15:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M6FORM011397 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 02:15:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M6F0NX005030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 00:15:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M6Ex0Y086085; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:14:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M6Eu0Z086066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:14:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-94.sonic.net [209.148.112.94]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4M6EsIe011891 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 23:14:55 -0700 Message-ID: <40AEF0F1.4080502@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 23:19:29 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) References: <200405211719.AA24510634@thrednedlestrete.com> <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> In-Reply-To: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, some concepts about the body being deformed by corsets, and the excessive weight of underclothing and clothing in general, are derived (whether directly or at some remove) from Victorian publications on dress reform. Whether such concepts were true or not, they had a significant number of adherents. For myself, I find that the mantra "it's none of my business" frees me from any agony over what other people say and wear, whether they are museum docents or not. Fran > > >>What would your guestimate be of the actual average weight of Victorian >> >> >underware, I assume pre crinoline? > > >>Lisa >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 02:22:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M6MhRM011965 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 02:22:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M6KkNX005201 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 00:20:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M6Kj0Y088148; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:20:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M6Kh0Y088123 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:20:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m8.in-tch.com [216.166.191.8]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4M5uie28863 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 23:56:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AEF218.30309@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 00:24:24 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth References: <1a2.24952a68.2ddfd39f@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1a2.24952a68.2ddfd39f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Naw. Just a gross fat man who had 6 wives, and only killed some of them.... --sue (not too fond of the Tudors...d@mned upstarts! ;o) Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/21/04 4:25:50 PM Central Daylight Time, > wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com writes: > I'm so livid I'm shaking. > > Bice > > Does the museum have any sort of website that could be used to send some > correctional information to whoever writes their tour scripts? > > I can relate. I tend to see stars every time I hear someone say that Henry > VIII was a gross fat man who had 8 wives and killed them all. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 02:23:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M6NDRM012009 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 02:23:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M6MeNX005298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 00:22:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M6Md0Y088891; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:22:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M6MZ0Y088859 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:22:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m8.in-tch.com [216.166.191.8]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4M5wee29512 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 23:58:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AEF28B.2080303@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 00:26:19 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth References: <1a2.24952a68.2ddfd39f@aol.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You mean "rabid?" (interesting spoonerism, that!) --sue Bice wrote: > No website. None to speak of anyhow. I'm so damn disgusted. I do have a > friend I'm waiting to hear from who is of the local aristocracy and I'm > hoping she knows someone who is a director there. They need a class on > Victorian clothing. I'm still rapid over this. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 02:32:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M6W6RM012872 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 02:32:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M6VUNX005707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 00:31:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M6VT0Y092329; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:31:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M6VR0Y092289 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:31:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m8.in-tch.com [216.166.191.8]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4M67Oe02169 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:07:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AEF497.60900@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 00:35:03 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) References: <200405211719.AA24510634@thrednedlestrete.com> <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> In-Reply-To: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I used to wear Elizabethan, my unders (shift, steel-boned corset, farthingale and a weird multi-petticoat-on-one-waistband thing) were about 12 lbs. 25-30 lbs. for the whole outfit. Most of the unders weight was the boning in the corset, and the petticoats which weighed almost 10 lbs. all by themselves. So, obviously, mileage varies! --sue Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > Well I just weighed my Elizabethan underwear (corset, smock and petticoat) > and it weighs somewhere between 1 and 2 lbs. (bathroom scales aren't that > accurate for small measures) I'd expect Victorian Underwear would be a > similar weight, extra petticoats or a steel crinoline would maybe up to > double that, but 11 lbs is way too much, that's heavier than all but a few > new-born babies! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 02:49:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M6ntRM015362 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 02:49:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M6mBNX006374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 00:48:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M6m90Y099594; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:48:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M6m40Y099566 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 00:48:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F6B628EFD for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 01:48:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p479.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.225]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A7E85C440 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 01:48:02 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tailor's Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 01:48:03 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jean, I seem to be getting double emails from you. De -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Jean Waddie Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:23 PM To: Historical Costume Cc: Historic Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tailor's Do you have any evidence of either term being used in the 12th century? My dictionary lists "tailor" as "C13", but of course no detail as to which end of the 13th century. There is so much development going on in the 12th century, both in increasingly fitted garments and changes in the technology of textile production, leading to it becoming more of a profession and less part of the housework, I suspect those sort of distinctions were not fixed until a bit later. Jean otsisto wrote >In the 12 century, was the title "tailor" a male designation? > >Ex: Tailor = male sewer > Seamstress + female sewer > >Anyone know? > >De >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 03:33:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M7XVRM028272 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 03:33:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M7StNX007792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 01:28:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M7Sh0Y015174; Sat, 22 May 2004 01:28:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M7Sg0Y015166 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 01:28:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63695280F7 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 02:28:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p479.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.225]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 298A5C440 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 02:28:41 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 02:28:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- > What would your guestimate be of the actual average weight of Victorian underware, I assume pre crinoline? > > Lisa Well I just weighed my Elizabethan underwear (corset, smock and petticoat) and it weighs somewhere between 1 and 2 lbs. (bathroom scales aren't that accurate for small measures) I'd expect Victorian Underwear would be a similar weight, extra petticoats or a steel crinoline would maybe up to double that, but 11 lbs is way too much, that's heavier than all but a few new-born babies! Elizabeth Whether it is 10lbs. or 15lbs., It comes down to "Ladies, do you find yourself off balanced when you wear you under garments"? Maybe they had their corsets to tight and had to lean for support cause they could barely breath. :P De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 03:40:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4M7ebRM030179 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 03:40:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M7caNX008164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 01:38:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M7cY0Y018883; Sat, 22 May 2004 01:38:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao01.cox.net (lakermmtao01.cox.net [68.230.240.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4M7cV0Y018845 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 01:38:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.96.201.18]) by lakermmtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with ESMTP id <20040522073825.QEWQ26450.lakermmtao01.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 03:38:25 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] article on early medieval embroidery stitches Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 03:37:54 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c43fcf$b92f9520$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <20040521180103.M49845@alfalfapress.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Althea~! Perhaps this is the one you are thinking of? http://www.42nd-dimension.com/NFPS/nfps_stitches.html Pax, ::Linda:: You can't always judge by appearances: the early bird may have been up all night. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Althea Turner Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:01 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] article on early medieval embroidery stitches Greetings all, I have been looking through my notes for a citation on an article but can't find it. It was on known embroidery stitches in northern europe 400-800 (ish) Does anyone know of such an article/website/book? Am I going crazy and imagining the reference? *laughs* Is there a similar article on seam/stitches? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 09:33:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MDXoRM004891 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:33:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MDWvNX021958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 07:32:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MDWn0Y050003; Sat, 22 May 2004 07:32:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4MDWk0Z049955 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 07:32:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SAVSMTP 3.1.0.29) with SMTP id M2004052209323709471 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:32:37 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id i4MDWX8Q019984 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00b801c44001$458cb210$47a810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gores versus gussets Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:32:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have seen and used an oval gusset -- same purpose as the square/rectangle, but with the corners softened to form an oval. Kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:30 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Gores versus gussets > What I have been told and keep as a definition: > Gussets: are a square to rectangular piece of material that is of bias cut > that is inserted in places to give ease to the garment, such as under the > arm. > Gores: are triangular, quarter circle or half circle material (not > necessarily of bias cut) that is inserted to give the garment flare or space > in a garment. > > De > -----Original Message----- > yes it is confusing. Sometimes I don't know why one term is used over > another. as far as I know, a gore is narrow at one end and wide at the > other. a gusset is inserted in the middle of a seam. however, it > seems you are saying there is some other criteria, which I would be > interested in knowing. I am not a professionally trained seamstress, > so I have to learn this stuff as I can. > > Kitty > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 09:48:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MDmJRM004982 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:48:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MDljNX022735 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 07:47:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MDli0Y055852; Sat, 22 May 2004 07:47:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MDlg0Y055818 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 07:47:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.128.90]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BA7481ECC for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 06:47:39 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 06:47:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) Message-ID: <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <40AEF0F1.4080502@lavoltapress.com> References: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Actually, some concepts about the body being deformed by corsets, and > the excessive weight of underclothing and clothing in general, are > derived (whether directly or at some remove) from Victorian > publications on dress reform. Whether such concepts were true or > not, they had a significant number of adherents. And some of the concepts are from xrays taken of the women (when xrays were still pretty new) and from autopsies. I had a medical book from the time period who showed drawings of the autopsies and I had another one from around the turn of the century which showed xrays. The more wasp waisted the corset was, the more it tended to "squish" things in odd directions. They also tended to make the women breath differently than men (which probably contributed to some of those women being more prone to the "vapors" and passing out.) The medical books describe the "mechanism of breathing" very differently for men and women. It certainly hampered their understanding of physiology (which was not well understood at the time so they were doing a lot of investigation.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 10:42:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MEgHRM005264 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:42:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MEfgNX025549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 08:41:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MEfe0Y078110; Sat, 22 May 2004 08:41:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MEfc0Y078078 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 08:41:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004052214413201300135gue>; Sat, 22 May 2004 14:41:32 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 22:40:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Market wallets? From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heather, Thanks very much! I only need it to creep back to 13th to be useful to my more amusing medieval persona. It seems like such an obvious and utilitarian style that it would be around earlier, but I had no background for it. Thanks again, Lauren > From: Heather Rose Jones > At 11:15 AM -0400 5/22/04, Lauren Walker wrote: > > Ah, ok, that _is_ the lineal descendent of the bags I was describing > in my previous post. I'm not having any luck finding examples > on-line at the moment, but the examples I use as comparative material > in my article on shepherds purses are: > > - scene of reapers from Egerton MS 2019 > - scenes of mowers and reapers from the Hours of Henry VIII > - travelers in an annunciation scene in frescos at Atri, Italy > > I've found examples of the style at least as early as the 14th > century, and they're fairly common in the 15-16th centuries. (My > research on this project doesn't go much beyond the 16th c. because > the artifact I'm focusing on doesn't show up much beyond that.) > > Heather > -- > ***** > Heather Rose Jones > hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu > ***** > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 10:46:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MEkqRM005298 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:46:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MEkMNX025762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 08:46:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MEkL0Y080101; Sat, 22 May 2004 08:46:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MEkJ0Y080061 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 08:46:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20040522144614013000pbo2e>; Sat, 22 May 2004 14:46:14 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 22:45:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Friend of mine says: "The more you know, the less you can enjoy." IF you don't think you have a chance to get in with these folks anyway, DO send a really snotty letter to them! I grew up in Syracuse, so I have this feeling I know what kind of infuriating they are... and won't you feel better if you put it all in a tidy, footnoted epistle and send it off? And do share with the list what you end up saying! For you can always be in with us, instead, and those who want to learn (like me) are ALWAYS more fun than the wilfully ignorant! Do battle for the sake of The Correct Information! (Sorry -- I have this awful problem in life because I am torn all the time between being "nice" and serving The Information, so I'm starting to regret having counseled you to let it slide.) Anyway, take care, and at least enjoy the support and solidarity of the likeminded, whatever you choose! Lauren > From: "Bice" > > I tried that. I really did. I kept saying he's old he doesn't know any > better he's doing the best he can. Then he made a remark about corsets and > reproduction organs and I simply walked out of the room to catch my breath > and temper. There were other appalling faux pas that I'm just disturbed > over. They take classes through this place!! And this area is a very > cliquish sort of place so I doubt I can even get an "in" to even teach a > class. As I said before I'm not in the realm of knowledge of some of ladies > here but at least I know that compared to this guy I'm a freaking genius. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 10:55:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MEtdRM005329 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:55:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MEt2NX026244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 08:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MEt20Y083678; Sat, 22 May 2004 08:55:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav61.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.196]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MErv0Y083133 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 08:53:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 22 May 2004 07:53:52 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.62 by bay1-dav61.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 22 May 2004 14:53:52 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.62] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1a2.24952a68.2ddfd39f@aol.com> <40AEF28B.2080303@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:53:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2004 14:53:52.0382 (UTC) FILETIME=[98FE89E0:01C4400C] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1074; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah well I'm a past master of them. Yes rabid with rapid movement towards the truck. ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 2:26 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth > You mean "rabid?" > (interesting spoonerism, that!) > --sue > > Bice wrote: > > > No website. None to speak of anyhow. I'm so damn disgusted. I do have a > > friend I'm waiting to hear from who is of the local aristocracy and I'm > > hoping she knows someone who is a director there. They need a class on > > Victorian clothing. I'm still rapid over this. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 10:55:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MEtuRM005332 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:55:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MEs0NX026171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 08:54:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MErx0Y083181; Sat, 22 May 2004 08:53:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav13.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MErt0Y083118 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 08:53:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 22 May 2004 07:53:49 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.62 by bay1-dav13.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 22 May 2004 14:53:49 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.62] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1a2.24952a68.2ddfd39f@aol.com> <002c01c43fb5$652a06a0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:53:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2004 14:53:49.0974 (UTC) FILETIME=[978F1B60:01C4400C] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The owner of the home was a prolific art collector and the docent cited a painting of four young ladies in pastels and bustles playing cards and one was leaning on a table to view her cards. ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:10 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bice" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth > > > > No website. None to speak of anyhow. I'm so damn disgusted. I do have a > > friend I'm waiting to hear from who is of the local aristocracy and I'm > > hoping she knows someone who is a director there. They need a class on > > Victorian clothing. I'm still rapid over this. Granted I don't know > > *everything* about this era but this era was my thing before I got into > > medieval era clothing. This man pushing 80 who just spouted out a fount of > > misinformation pointing to lovely paintings of women on the beach and > > playing cards citing them leaning on tables because they needed to balance > > themselves. ARGH!!!!!! > Really isn't that one of the cardinal rules of Victorian table manners, > _DON'T_ put your elbows on the table. The whole off balance thing is > something new to me, I've heard the 'underwear was heavy and deformed your > body' argument but "they couldn't keep their balance" is just so ludicrous I > can't even work out how somebody would come up with it. The other 2 are > loosely based on fact (there was more underwear than today, it was heavier, > and some women did tightlace to the extreme) but the whole, being so off > balance they couldn't even sit down without leaning on something is so > totally off base I can't even see where you would find it's origin. > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole > Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia > ewalpole@austar.net.au > > People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun > is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if > there is light from within. > Elizabeth Kubler-Ross > > The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added > to the ages of other women. > Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 10:57:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MEvHRM005336 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:57:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MEuiNX026380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 08:56:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MEuh0Y084396; Sat, 22 May 2004 08:56:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav25.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MEud0Y084351 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 08:56:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 22 May 2004 07:56:33 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.62 by bay1-dav25.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 22 May 2004 14:56:33 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.62] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:55:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2004 14:56:33.0957 (UTC) FILETIME=[F94CED50:01C4400C] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dead on!! That was "one" of his reasonings!! ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 3:28 AM Subject: RE: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) > Whether it is 10lbs. or 15lbs., It comes down to "Ladies, do you find > yourself off balanced when you wear you under garments"? > > Maybe they had their corsets to tight and had to lean for support cause they > could barely breath. :P > > De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 11:05:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MF5RRM005366 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:05:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MF4fNX026955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 09:04:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MF4f0Y087786; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:04:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from thrednedlestrete.com (mail02.enterhost.com [69.93.13.234]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MF4c0Y087733 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:04:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:04:31 -0500 Message-Id: <200405221004.AA95944794@thrednedlestrete.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth X-Mailer: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I did quite a bit of work for a small museum that only stayed open as many hours as it did due to the service of volunteers. Many of the volunteers were nearing retirement age and the laws regarding pensions in Australia at the time were if you were over 53 (or some age close to retirement) you could get government benefits if you did community service X amount of hours per week. The volunteers we got in this catagory did their best, and the museum did their best to educate them (an ongoing endevour) to the best of thier own knowledge. The museum was able to be open 6 days a week instead of 4 with their help. Perhaps a gentle letter of correction might be more appreciated than a snotty one, or write a snotty one and and gentle one just to get it out of your system, but sent the gentle on. Ahh to live in a perfect world!!!! Lisa Sinervo ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Lauren Walker Reply-To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 22:45:30 -0400 >Friend of mine says: "The more you know, the less you can enjoy." IF you >don't think you have a chance to get in with these folks anyway, DO send a >really snotty letter to them! I grew up in Syracuse, so I have this feeling >I know what kind of infuriating they are... and won't you feel better if you >put it all in a tidy, footnoted epistle and send it off? And do share with >the list what you end up saying! For you can always be in with us, instead, >and those who want to learn (like me) are ALWAYS more fun than the wilfully >ignorant! Do battle for the sake of The Correct Information! > >(Sorry -- I have this awful problem in life because I am torn all the time >between being "nice" and serving The Information, so I'm starting to regret >having counseled you to let it slide.) Anyway, take care, and at least enjoy >the support and solidarity of the likeminded, whatever you choose! >Lauren > > >> From: "Bice" > >> >> I tried that. I really did. I kept saying he's old he doesn't know any >> better he's doing the best he can. Then he made a remark about corsets and >> reproduction organs and I simply walked out of the room to catch my breath >> and temper. There were other appalling faux pas that I'm just disturbed >> over. They take classes through this place!! And this area is a very >> cliquish sort of place so I doubt I can even get an "in" to even teach a >> class. As I said before I'm not in the realm of knowledge of some of ladies >> here but at least I know that compared to this guy I'm a freaking genius. >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 11:35:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MFZqRM005596 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:35:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MFZHNX028480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 09:35:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MFZF0Y000993; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:35:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MFZC0Y000919 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:35:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.6b.2a2d693f (4012) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:35:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <6b.2a2d693f.2de0cd26@aol.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:35:02 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/22/04 10:05:47 AM Central Daylight Time, Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com writes: The volunteers we got in this catagory did their best, and the museum did their best to educate them (an ongoing endevour) to the best of thier own knowledge. The museum was able to be open 6 days a week instead of 4 with their help. Perhaps a gentle letter of correction might be more appreciated than a snotty one, or write a snotty one and and gentle one just to get it out of your system, but sent the gentle on. I *totally* agree with this. Perhaps, if you have time, you could even offer to provide some actual, well-researched tidbits of information that the tour guides could use, to replace their misinformation. As hard as it is to stomach, we also have to recall that the target audience of a place like that is often tourists who really don't know any different from what the guides tell them, and who expect to hear things that are sensational and shocking about how weird those people "back then" were. I would compare it to going to any renaissance faire and seeing the same utterly bizarre (historically speaking) anachronisms acted out year after year, location after location. There's simply a way that the public expects things to be, regardless of what actually *was*, and that's what they get. It's frustrating. And your general person on the street would probably tell you with an air of complete confidence, that women during Victorian times were deformed from their corsets and blah blah blah. One that annoys me is the idea that all women at the time were wasp waisted and petite Winona Ryder clones. A study of any good collection of 19th century fashion will show a widely varied range of sizes, with many of them being for more buxom women. Obviously the overall silhouette of their figures would (generally speaking) be different from ours simply through the training of their bodies to corsetry, but they were not all minute and wilting by any means. Perhaps we could help come up with a list of neat, interesting, factual tidbits that the original poster could include in the letter as suggestions for the museum? -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 11:46:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MFk1RM005713 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:46:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MFi0NX029000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 09:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MFhx0Y004942; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:43:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MFhu0Y004898 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:43:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.fb.577feb6e (24895) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:43:45 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:43:45 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/22/2004 12:33:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au writes: > The general consensus seems to be that > they turn out too big, for those that did find them too big did you check > your measurements against the pattern envelope, or did you just go with your > normal size? Perhaps the corset pattern is the measurements for the size of the gown....y'know both are like size 10 measurements. When in reality the corset should be about 2" smaller and should not lace completely shut. So the corset seems too big. [Well, because it is! even though it's like a size 10] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 11:47:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MFlARM005719 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:47:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MFj6NX029067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 09:45:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MFj50Y005422; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:45:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav9.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.113]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MFj20Y005365 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:45:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 22 May 2004 08:44:57 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.62 by bay1-dav9.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:44:57 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.62] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200405221004.AA95944794@thrednedlestrete.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:43:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2004 15:44:57.0463 (UTC) FILETIME=[BBECC870:01C44013] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well they are without a doubt getting a letter of education. Maybe my paper from college on Victorian clothing including the artistic movement. Snotty? I'll try not to be but I'm often snotty without trying. I'd like to see maybe some re-education. ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth > I did quite a bit of work for a small museum that only stayed open as many hours as it did due to the service of volunteers. Many of the volunteers were nearing retirement age and the laws regarding pensions in Australia at the time were if you were over 53 (or some age close to retirement) you could get government benefits if you did community service X amount of hours per week. > > The volunteers we got in this catagory did their best, and the museum did their best to educate them (an ongoing endevour) to the best of thier own knowledge. The museum was able to be open 6 days a week instead of 4 with their help. Perhaps a gentle letter of correction might be more appreciated than a snotty one, or write a snotty one and and gentle one just to get it out of your system, but sent the gentle on. Ahh to live in a perfect world!!!! > > Lisa Sinervo > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: Lauren Walker > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 22:45:30 -0400 > > >Friend of mine says: "The more you know, the less you can enjoy." IF you > >don't think you have a chance to get in with these folks anyway, DO send a > >really snotty letter to them! I grew up in Syracuse, so I have this feeling > >I know what kind of infuriating they are... and won't you feel better if you > >put it all in a tidy, footnoted epistle and send it off? And do share with > >the list what you end up saying! For you can always be in with us, instead, > >and those who want to learn (like me) are ALWAYS more fun than the wilfully > >ignorant! Do battle for the sake of The Correct Information! > > > >(Sorry -- I have this awful problem in life because I am torn all the time > >between being "nice" and serving The Information, so I'm starting to regret > >having counseled you to let it slide.) Anyway, take care, and at least enjoy > >the support and solidarity of the likeminded, whatever you choose! > >Lauren > > > > > >> From: "Bice" > > > >> > >> I tried that. I really did. I kept saying he's old he doesn't know any > >> better he's doing the best he can. Then he made a remark about corsets and > >> reproduction organs and I simply walked out of the room to catch my breath > >> and temper. There were other appalling faux pas that I'm just disturbed > >> over. They take classes through this place!! And this area is a very > >> cliquish sort of place so I doubt I can even get an "in" to even teach a > >> class. As I said before I'm not in the realm of knowledge of some of ladies > >> here but at least I know that compared to this guy I'm a freaking genius. > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 11:52:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MFqbRM005753 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:52:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MFnjNX029376 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 09:49:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MFng0Y007939; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:49:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav41.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MFne0Y007855 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:49:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 22 May 2004 08:48:12 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.62 by bay1-dav41.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:48:12 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.62] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6b.2a2d693f.2de0cd26@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:48:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2004 15:48:12.0801 (UTC) FILETIME=[305AFF10:01C44014] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The thing is there are some tidbits right there!! The daughter of the house Harriet was divorced in the 1880's she was also mentally ill (I think it had to do with her husband's girlfriend however) now for a woman in Oswego NY in NYS period to divorce is so rare. Up until very recently the only grounds a women could get a divorce on here was adultery!! There's a nice little bit for you! And it's not like they hide it because the museum pamphlets play it up! And if I had to hear his explanation of how 6 year old girls had ribs removed by their mother (a practice continuing today according to him) in order to have a smaller waist....omg the more I think the angrier I get. ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- > I *totally* agree with this. Perhaps, if you have time, you could even offer > to provide some actual, well-researched tidbits of information that the tour > guides could use, to replace their misinformation. > > As hard as it is to stomach, we also have to recall that the target audience > of a place like that is often tourists who really don't know any different > from what the guides tell them, and who expect to hear things that are > sensational and shocking about how weird those people "back then" were. I would compare > it to going to any renaissance faire and seeing the same utterly bizarre > (historically speaking) anachronisms acted out year after year, location after > location. > > There's simply a way that the public expects things to be, regardless of what > actually *was*, and that's what they get. It's frustrating. And your > general person on the street would probably tell you with an air of complete > confidence, that women during Victorian times were deformed from their corsets and > blah blah blah. > > One that annoys me is the idea that all women at the time were wasp waisted > and petite Winona Ryder clones. A study of any good collection of 19th century > fashion will show a widely varied range of sizes, with many of them being for > more buxom women. Obviously the overall silhouette of their figures would > (generally speaking) be different from ours simply through the training of their > bodies to corsetry, but they were not all minute and wilting by any means. > > Perhaps we could help come up with a list of neat, interesting, factual > tidbits that the original poster could include in the letter as suggestions for the > museum? > > -Tiffany _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 11:54:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MFsSRM005759 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:54:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MFqdNX029457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 09:52:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MFqc0Y009230; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:52:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f17.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MFqZ0Y009173 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:52:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 22 May 2004 08:52:28 -0700 Received: from 129.244.96.65 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:52:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.65] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:52:27 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2004 15:52:28.0019 (UTC) FILETIME=[C87A2C30:01C44014] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Tailor's X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Tailor = male sewer >Seamstress + female sewer OED - Tailor 1. a. ‘One whose business is to make clothes’ (J.); a maker of the outer garments of men, also sometimes those of women, esp. riding-habits, walking costumes, etc. See also MERCHANT-TAILOR. (Although historically the tailor is the cutter, in the trade the ‘tailor’ is the man who sews or makes up what the ‘cutter’ has shaped.) 1297 R. GLOUC. (Rolls) 6391 A robe he let him ssape uerst of blod red scarlet there the ssarpe stones bi the stret is tailors were..the tailors corue so moni peces uor is robe ne ssolde pow3e. OED - Seamstress, Sempstress A woman who seams or sews; a needlewoman whose occupation is plain sewing as distinguished from dress or mantle-making, decorative embroidery, etc. 1644 HOWELL Twelve Treat. (1661) 47 A great masse of money and plate was brought into the Guild-hall, the Semstresse brought in her silver Thimble,..the Cook his Spoons. However, OED Seamster, Sempster One who sews; one whose occupation is sewing, esp. the making and mending of garments; a tailor, seamstress. Originally a designation of a woman, but in OE. already applicable to a man. Now only applied to one of the male sex, seamstress being commonly used for a female sewer. c995 in Kemble Cod. Diplom. VI. 131 Ane crencestræn, and ane semestran. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN Premium! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 12:19:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MGJTRM005886 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:19:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGHfNX000940 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 10:17:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGHZ0Y019982; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:17:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGHX0Y019958 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:17:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from khanson@kc.rr.com) Received: from karen (CPE-24-31-232-81.kc.rr.com [24.31.232.81]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i4MGHV9W029235 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:17:31 -0500 (CDT) From: "Talia" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:18:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <6b.2a2d693f.2de0cd26@aol.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Better yet, get a group together and all show up in accurate period clothing, right down to your drawers and corsets. Educate by example? Talia > Perhaps we could help come up with a list of neat, interesting, factual > tidbits that the original poster could include in the letter as > suggestions for the > museum? > > -Tiffany _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 12:25:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MGPgRM005918 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:25:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGOuNX001381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 10:24:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGOs0Y023111; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:24:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGOp0Z023096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:24:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-177.sonic.net [209.148.112.177]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4MGOmkb013024 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:24:50 -0700 Message-ID: <40AF7FE4.3060805@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:29:24 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah, we now get down to the real motive--the fun of being superior, getting together with a crowd of like-minded people, and putting others down publicly. This has nothing to do with "education." Fran Lauren Walker wrote: >Friend of mine says: "The more you know, the less you can enjoy." IF you >don't think you have a chance to get in with these folks anyway, DO send a >really snotty letter to them! I grew up in Syracuse, so I have this feeling >I know what kind of infuriating they are... and won't you feel better if you >put it all in a tidy, footnoted epistle and send it off? And do share with >the list what you end up saying! For you can always be in with us, instead, >and those who want to learn (like me) are ALWAYS more fun than the wilfully >ignorant! Do battle for the sake of The Correct Information! > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 12:26:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MGQGRM005923 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:26:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGNQNX001285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 10:23:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGNP0Y022498; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:23:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGNN0Y022435 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:23:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m177.in-tch.com [216.166.191.177]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4MFxMe25745 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:59:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AF7F57.1070701@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:27:03 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nope. As heavy as it was (and in my case, may have been a case of overkill with the petticoats), I was always quite well balanced. Well, the clothing was . That's actually one of the reasons that I was able to move and live in my Elizabethan clothing, because it *was* well-balanced, and wasn't, say, all hanging from my shoulders. Clothing heavier (and longer, and more full-skirted) than my usual jeans-and-tee-shirt sometimes require a different kind of attention to detail, and small changes in movement and posture, but they're not deforming. If I get wobbly, it's me, forgetting what I've got on and where I am, not the clothing. I'd imagine that someone who grew up wearing styles from a certain time, and who wore it all the time (and not just on long weekends ;o) would have sort of a built-in knack for moving/living in that type of clothing. --sue, who's worn her share of painful corsets, but that was actually my fault, for construction problems, and not the corsets! otsisto wrote: > Whether it is 10lbs. or 15lbs., It comes down to "Ladies, do you find > yourself off balanced when you wear you under garments"? > > Maybe they had their corsets to tight and had to lean for support cause they > could barely breath. :P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 12:32:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MGWLRM005958 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:32:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGVjNX001854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 10:31:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGVh0Y026084; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:31:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGVf0Y026010 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:31:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.157.35c8aa06 (4012) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:31:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <157.35c8aa06.2de0da66@aol.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 12:31:34 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/22/04 11:25:47 AM Central Daylight Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: Ah, we now get down to the real motive--the fun of being superior, getting together with a crowd of like-minded people, and putting others down publicly. This has nothing to do with "education." Fran I think this is a bit unfair. The original poster (sorry, can't remember her name) has done nothing to publicly put the tour guide down; she came to a group of people who would understand her frustration, and vented. We all have our pet peeves and irritations in this hobby, the things that push our buttons. I think she's gotten some good input from several different viewpoints, and we do not know yet what she will ultimately end up doing; so it seems premature to judge her intentions or the outcome of the entire situation. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 12:35:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MGZKRM005969 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:35:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGYeNX002021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 10:34:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGYU0Y027240; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:34:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGY90Y027055 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:34:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0348.dialsprint.net ([63.186.145.94]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BRZRn-0004cL-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:34:07 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 12:34:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catching up - was Colonial House series. From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i4MGY90Y027055 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 5/21/04 10:25 PM, Marc Carlson at marccarlson20@hotmail.com wrote: > Let's see -- my ancestors -- if memory serves the 4 were 4 men and 1 woman, > 2 convictions, 2 acquittals. Of the convictions, Mary Sanford was hung, and > James Wakely escaped to spend the next 20 years trying to divorce his wife > (when he was convicted all his property was confiscated, since he didn't die > she couldn't remarry). Love takes interesting forms sometimes. A good man. > > I was under the impression that Goodie Bassett was hung in Stratford in > 1651. OTOH, Stratford is in Fairfield County, and I tend to think of is as > a separate place from Fairfield proper, but I bet it isn't any more :) Stratford and Fairfield were separate settlements but abutted. They no longer abut: Bridgeport, P.T. Barnum's town, thrust itself between late in the nineteenth c. Goody Knapp worked for the Staples family, and one reason for the witchcraft charge against Knapp was Bassett's assertion about the other witch in Fairfield. Since my consort and I have been working off and on for years on the Staples story, we tend to think of these three women as inextricably linked and so we link the towns as well. Sorry--my dates are loose--the project's been "off" more than "on" for the last five or six years, and I'm not sure at the moment where we've got our notes, since we're currently in the middle of a very slow move from one house to another. I may have had the date wrong for Knapp. Bassett was hanged a year or so before Knapp, and Staples was accused shortly after Knapp was hanged--I believe the Ludlowe slander trial was a year later (maybe a bit longer) in New Haven and there was no trial of Mary at that time. Our research benefited hugely from that slander trial, by the way, because the records of the Knapp trial are nonexistent--either they were among papers Ludlowe absconded with or they were burned when the British burned Fairfield in the Revolution. But some of the testimony in Staples referred to accusations and events in Knapp, and also made clear the various family alliances in what was evidently an ongoing political struggle between Roger Ludlowe and Mary Staples' husband (whom I want at the moment to call Thomas but that may not be right so I'll just say "husband"). According to our reading, one thing that helped Staples and her female offspring in the end-of-century trial was the embarrassing end of the Salem trials--when their witch court came to an end, the charges in Fairfield seem also to have been dropped. Mary Staples had been released by then, at the intercession of her friend Gould, but daughter and grand-daughter got out only when the prosecution decided to stop. > My information has Mary Staples being acquitted and her accuser Robert > Ludlow being fined 20 Pounds for defamation - since that was -also- a crime; > but yes, I misspoke. Yes, Roger Ludlowe lost, but he had flown the coop by then. He evidently took with him a pile of Fairfield colony records (see above). BTW, modern Fairfield dutifully named a high school after him, as our neighbor Westport named one for the Staples family. Ruth Anne > > =================== > Just as an amusing aside, according to the Middle English Dictionary, a > "Gore" is a an inlet, like a long thin bay, and a triangular insert of > material in clothing :) > > Marc > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 12:36:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MGaMRM005974 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:36:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGZZNX002093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 10:35:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGZY0Y027709; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:35:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGYK0Y027066 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:34:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0140.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.80.141]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id F08BE3195B2 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 18:34:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40AF8102.6060505@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 18:34:10 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns References: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For me, I always have to make Simplicity patterns two sizes smaller than what the mesurements tell on the envelope But I forgot while making my corset :-( . AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 5/22/2004 12:33:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, >ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au writes: > > > >>The general consensus seems to be that >>they turn out too big, for those that did find them too big did you check >>your measurements against the pattern envelope, or did you just go with your >>normal size? >> >> > >Perhaps the corset pattern is the measurements for the size of the >gown....y'know both are like size 10 measurements. When in reality the corset should be >about 2" smaller and should not lace completely shut. So the corset seems too >big. [Well, because it is! even though it's like a size 10] >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 12:40:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MGePRM005996 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:40:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGcYNX002360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 10:38:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGcW0Y028998; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:38:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGcT0Y028907 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:38:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0140.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.80.141]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22BDC319457 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 18:38:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40AF8202.6010706@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 18:38:26 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns References: <83.c689f19.2ddf625d@aol.com> <1250.198.93.211.56.1085150010.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> <002d01c43fb5$68c52ec0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I used metal and plastik boning because I didn't had enough metal. But I rememder there is one boning channel at the sides that didn't work with the metal boning. It wasn't strait enough and it twisted. I think in the end I left them out. I think metal boning and a wooden busk wil work best, but you have to change the chanels at the sides. Greetings, Deredere Elizabeth Walpole wrote: >Hi, >one more question (for now), for those that have used these patterns what >did you use for boning? are the boning channels straight enough to use flat >steels? or will I need spiral steel? The general consensus seems to be that >they turn out too big, for those that did find them too big did you check >your measurements against the pattern envelope, or did you just go with your >normal size? I just want to check if their printed measurements are off or >whether they are a different size to normal patterns. >Thanks >Elizabeth >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- >Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole >Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia > ewalpole@austar.net.au > >People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun >is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if >there is light from within. >Elizabeth Kubler-Ross > >The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added >to the ages of other women. >Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 12:44:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MGicRM006013 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:44:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGfqNX002695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 10:41:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGfp0Y030684; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:41:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from thrednedlestrete.com (mail02.enterhost.com [69.93.13.234]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGfm0Y030618 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:41:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:41:42 -0500 Message-Id: <200405221141.AA49545318@thrednedlestrete.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) X-Mailer: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think a study of the changing weight of underwear through the ages might be quite a fascinating undertaking.......... Lisa ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Sue Clemenger Reply-To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:27:03 -0600 >Nope. As heavy as it was (and in my case, may have been a case of >overkill with the petticoats), I was always quite well balanced. Well, >the clothing was . That's actually one of the reasons that I was >able to move and live in my Elizabethan clothing, because it *was* >well-balanced, and wasn't, say, all hanging from my shoulders. Clothing >heavier (and longer, and more full-skirted) than my usual >jeans-and-tee-shirt sometimes require a different kind of attention to >detail, and small changes in movement and posture, but they're not >deforming. If I get wobbly, it's me, forgetting what I've got on and >where I am, not the clothing. I'd imagine that someone who grew up >wearing styles from a certain time, and who wore it all the time (and >not just on long weekends ;o) would have sort of a built-in knack for >moving/living in that type of clothing. >--sue, who's worn her share of painful corsets, but that was actually my >fault, for construction problems, and not the corsets! > >otsisto wrote: > >> Whether it is 10lbs. or 15lbs., It comes down to "Ladies, do you find >> yourself off balanced when you wear you under garments"? >> >> Maybe they had their corsets to tight and had to lean for support cause they >> could barely breath. :P > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 12:55:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MGtlRM006065 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:55:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGrQNX003478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 10:53:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGrO0Y036037; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:53:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGrH0Z035994 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:53:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-177.sonic.net [209.148.112.177]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4MGrECn017745 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:53:16 -0700 Message-ID: <40AF868F.2010305@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:57:51 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) References: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost> In-Reply-To: <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also, I think the concept of "this is what my reproduction clothes weigh/feel like to wear" is not an entirely valid or complete evidence of what people's clothes were like or felt like in any historic period. Victorian corsets were put on females whose bones were still growing, when bones are far easier to reshape, and sometimes with the express purpose of ensuring a small waist/fashionable figure in adulthood. Furthermore, I believe such reshaping requires pretty constant wearing of the corset, at least during the day. (Such reshaping of bones by a device is still often done, in the form of dental braces.) Putting on the corset as an adult for occasional weekend and/or evening events would not, I think, reshape the bones. It should also be remembered that many historic reenactment events take place either indoors in buildings with central heating or outdoors in warm weather. In other words, in situations where it is unnecessary to wear heavy clothing for warmth, except perhaps a walk to a heated car. Getting back to reform dress, I don't think it would have had any adherents to speak of if women (and the doctors who advocated it) felt that its claims that corsets could deform the figure and that heavy garments impeded the wearer, were completely untrue. I also suspect there were degrees of adherence to reform principles. Many women considered highly unconventional outfits like bloomers (as day wear, forms of them did catch on for exercise wear) to be extreme. On the other hand, changes like lacing less tightly, wearing less underclothing, suspending petticoat weight from the shoulders (which I would find uncomfortable, but it was one reform idea), and wearing wool next to the skin (which I wouldn't care for, but it was considered healthful for a time), changes like this were less public and would not have labeled the wearer as eccentric. Fran http://www.lavoltapress.com >And some of the concepts are from xrays taken of the women (when >xrays were still pretty new) and from autopsies. I had a medical book >from the time period who showed drawings of the autopsies and I had >another one from around the turn of the century which showed xrays. >The more wasp waisted the corset was, the more it tended to "squish" >things in odd directions. > >They also tended to make the women breath differently than men (which >probably contributed to some of those women being more prone to the >"vapors" and passing out.) The medical books describe the "mechanism >of breathing" very differently for men and women. It certainly >hampered their understanding of physiology (which was not well >understood at the time so they were doing a lot of investigation.) > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 12:58:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MGwoRM006079 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:58:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGv3NX003662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 10:57:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGv20Y037717; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:57:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MGv00Z037696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:57:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-177.sonic.net [209.148.112.177]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4MGuv6t018307 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 09:56:59 -0700 Message-ID: <40AF876E.5080708@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:01:34 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth References: <157.35c8aa06.2de0da66@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <157.35c8aa06.2de0da66@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not judging what she has or has not actually done, but the practice of "let's get together and run down people who are more ignorant than we are." I personally am not a like-minded person in this respect. Fran Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 5/22/04 11:25:47 AM Central Daylight Time, >fran@lavoltapress.com writes: >Ah, we now get down to the real motive--the fun of being superior, >getting together with a crowd of like-minded people, and putting others >down publicly. This has nothing to do with "education." > >Fran > > >I think this is a bit unfair. The original poster (sorry, can't remember her >name) has done nothing to publicly put the tour guide down; she came to a >group of people who would understand her frustration, and vented. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 13:07:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MH7VRM006107 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:07:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MH6RNX004169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 11:06:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MH6Q0Y041890; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:06:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MH6O0Y041838 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:06:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1e3.210a8647 (4012) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:06:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1e3.210a8647.2de0e285@aol.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 13:06:13 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/22/04 11:57:54 AM Central Daylight Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: I'm not judging what she has or has not actually done, but the practice of "let's get together and run down people who are more ignorant than we are." I personally am not a like-minded person in this respect. Fran I guess I just don't see where this has happened here. If we were talking about walking up to someone on the street and saying, "give me a list of 5 facts regarding Victorian era customs" and they stumbled through it or gave misinformation, then I think we'd be unjustified in feeling concerned about their lack of veracity. But since the tour guides in a historical museum are putting forth their statements as fact, and since the average tour participant will most likely take the statements at face value (and assume that the tour guide has done his or her homework), I think it's fair for us to expect a higher level of education and truth from them; and to be concerned by such perpetuating of ignorance. I would not advocate intentionally trying to be "snotty" (although to give credit, I think the person who used that term was being facetious) to anyone for any reason, but I do not feel that it is out of line to be upset about blatant misinforming, or to try to figure out what action, if any, is appropriate to express such concern. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 13:18:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MHISRM006152 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:18:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MHHqNX004814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 11:17:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MHHn0Y046754; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:17:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MHHl0Z046735 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:17:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-177.sonic.net [209.148.112.177]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4MHHj3j009667 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:17:46 -0700 Message-ID: <40AF8C4D.5000709@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:22:21 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth References: <1e3.210a8647.2de0e285@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1e3.210a8647.2de0e285@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I guess I just don't see where this has happened here. If we were talking >about walking up to someone on the street and saying, "give me a list of 5 facts >regarding Victorian era customs" and they stumbled through it or gave >misinformation, then I think we'd be unjustified in feeling concerned about their >lack of veracity. > > Why? I'm not at all concerned--even though I try to get my facts correct as much as possible. The actions of some docents in some museum I am unconnected with are simply not my business. >But since the tour guides in a historical museum are putting forth their >statements as fact > And as I've been trying to point out, some of tour guides' statements are not without basis. > and since the average tour participant will most likely take >the statements at face value > Why? There are an enormous number of sources of information publicly available, and most modern people are by no means naive about the fact that some information they receive is incorrect. That's assuming they're even interested enough in the subject to care, and that a museum tour is anything more than a pleasant afternoon whose details they will soon forget. >( >I would not advocate intentionally trying to be "snotty" (although to give >credit, I think the person who used that term was being facetious) to anyone for >any reason, but I do not feel that it is out of line to be upset about >blatant misinforming, or to try to figure out what action, if any, is appropriate to >express such concern. > > Well, I do. Other people and institutions run things their way, and it is not everyone else's business to supervise them all. Fran > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 13:19:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MHJaRM006159 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:19:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MHIuNX004909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 11:18:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MHIu0Y047281; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:18:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav61.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.196]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MHIc0Y047093 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:18:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:18:33 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.10 by bay1-dav61.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 22 May 2004 17:18:33 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.10] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1e3.210a8647.2de0e285@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 13:18:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2004 17:18:33.0728 (UTC) FILETIME=[CF7AD000:01C44020] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am more concerned about the info being given to children and BOCES students. It wasn't simply the clothing it was that he didn't know who Eastlake the company who designed the furniture was. Had no clue about Japonesque and it's influences. Called the house Ren Revival when it is in fact Italianate. And various other mistake I *know* he didn't learn at the hands of some of the wonderfully smart people there who I know from my grandfather's auction. And I'm sorry Fran that you see an ulterior motive to my being so upset and the information being given out by someone who should know better. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth > In a message dated 5/22/04 11:57:54 AM Central Daylight Time, > fran@lavoltapress.com writes: > I'm not judging what she has or has not actually done, but the practice > of "let's get together and run down people who are more ignorant than we > are." I personally am not a like-minded person in this respect. > > Fran > > > I guess I just don't see where this has happened here. If we were talking > about walking up to someone on the street and saying, "give me a list of 5 facts > regarding Victorian era customs" and they stumbled through it or gave > misinformation, then I think we'd be unjustified in feeling concerned about their > lack of veracity. > > But since the tour guides in a historical museum are putting forth their > statements as fact, and since the average tour participant will most likely take > the statements at face value (and assume that the tour guide has done his or > her homework), I think it's fair for us to expect a higher level of education > and truth from them; and to be concerned by such perpetuating of ignorance. > > I would not advocate intentionally trying to be "snotty" (although to give > credit, I think the person who used that term was being facetious) to anyone for > any reason, but I do not feel that it is out of line to be upset about > blatant misinforming, or to try to figure out what action, if any, is appropriate to > express such concern. > > -Tiffany _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 13:24:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MHOCRM006184 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:24:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MHNcNX005236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 11:23:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MHNc0Y049459; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:23:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MHNY0Z049431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:23:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-177.sonic.net [209.148.112.177]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4MHNVTT021885 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:23:33 -0700 Message-ID: <40AF8DA7.4050401@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:28:07 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) References: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost> <40AF868F.2010305@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <40AF868F.2010305@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I should add that measuring waist size in surviving garments is not necessarily any indication as to whether the wearers' bones have been deformed. Waist size is affected by several things--bone structure, muscle tone, and the amount of fat around the waist. A woman whose bone structure had been altered by corsetry, who had a small waist as a young adult, but who later gained weight and/or whose figure was altered by successive pregancies, might have a significantly larger waist in later years. But I believe her bone structure would be about the same as when she was younger. Fran > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 13:32:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MHW9RM006210 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:32:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MHVPNX005689 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 11:31:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MHVN0Y052979; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:31:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MHVL0Z052965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:31:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-177.sonic.net [209.148.112.177]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4MHVJur011550 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:31:20 -0700 Message-ID: <40AF8F7B.5070506@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:35:55 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth References: <1e3.210a8647.2de0e285@aol.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd suggest that you write an article or articles on these topics and have it/them published in a newsletter or magazine, and/or posted on a website. And let everyone know the information there. That way you can disseminate what you believe to be correct information without criticizing anyone. As for children, they're probably the ones least likely to retain factual information as opposed to a hazy impression. Fran Bice wrote: >I am more concerned about the info being given to children and BOCES >students. It wasn't simply the clothing it was that he didn't know who >Eastlake the company who designed the furniture was. Had no clue about >Japonesque and it's influences. Called the house Ren Revival when it is in >fact Italianate. And various other mistake I *know* he didn't learn at the >hands of some of the wonderfully smart people there who I know from my >grandfather's auction. And I'm sorry Fran that you see an ulterior motive to >my being so upset and the information being given out by someone who should >know better. > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 13:34:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MHYsRM006222 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:34:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MHYLNX005858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 11:34:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MHYK0Y054287; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:34:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MHYH0Y054252 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:34:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01253 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:35:55 -0500 Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 12:35:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) In-Reply-To: <40AF8DA7.4050401@lavoltapress.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lavolta Press wrote: > A woman whose bone structure had been altered by corsetry, who had a > small waist as a young adult, but who later gained weight and/or whose > figure was altered by successive pregancies, might have a > significantly larger waist in later years. But I believe her bone > structure would be about the same as when she was younger. Point of information: Pregnancy does indeed change bone structure, if by that you mean positioning/placement of the bones. My ribcage, feet, and pelvis will never again be as small as they were pre-pregnancy, no matter how much weight I lose. The degree of change varies with the individual, of course. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 13:43:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MHhLRM006256 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:43:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MHfUNX006353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 11:41:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MHfS0Y057583; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:41:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MHfP0Z057567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:41:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-177.sonic.net [209.148.112.177]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4MHfNRt013009 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 10:41:24 -0700 Message-ID: <40AF91D7.3090705@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:45:59 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you think a compressed ribcage would enlarge to a woman's natural uncompressed size? I have been told that pregnancy can also alter the woman's fat distribution, even if she gets back to the same weight as before the pregnancy. Fran Robin Netherton wrote: >On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lavolta Press wrote: > > > >>A woman whose bone structure had been altered by corsetry, who had a >>small waist as a young adult, but who later gained weight and/or whose >>figure was altered by successive pregancies, might have a >>significantly larger waist in later years. But I believe her bone >>structure would be about the same as when she was younger. >> >> > >Point of information: Pregnancy does indeed change bone structure, if by >that you mean positioning/placement of the bones. My ribcage, feet, and >pelvis will never again be as small as they were pre-pregnancy, no matter >how much weight I lose. The degree of change varies with the individual, >of course. > >--Robin > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 14:21:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MILRRM006424 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 14:21:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MIJUNX008393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 12:19:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MIJS0Y074596; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:19:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MIJP0Y074577 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:19:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m177.in-tch.com [216.166.191.177]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4MHtUe08634 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:55:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AF9A8D.7050706@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 12:23:09 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) References: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost> <40AF868F.2010305@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <40AF868F.2010305@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is reminding me of one of the Louisa May Alcott books ("Eight Cousins?"), in which the pre-adolescent heroine is given much less fashionably restrictive clothing by her new guardian. It's been decades since I've read the book, and I'm not at all versed in much of 19th c. anything, but I seem to recall that she (the heroine) wasn't corseted, either, or had a more healthy corset, or something.... Looking back on it, I also wonder if perhaps there wasn't some classism as a subtext, since Our Heroine also spent time learning to do "healthy" domestic chores like baking bread (more of a "middle class" thing than an "upper class" thing). I'd be interested to hear more about this from folks who know more about reform dress and the philosophies behind it. Heck, I don't even know if Alcott was a part of that movement (shame on me...I think a trip to the library's in order today!) --sue Fran wrote: > Getting back to reform dress, I don't think it would have had any > adherents to speak of if women (and the doctors who advocated it) felt > that its claims that corsets could deform the figure and that heavy > garments impeded the wearer, were completely untrue. I also suspect > there were degrees of adherence to reform principles. Many women > considered highly unconventional outfits like bloomers (as day wear, > forms of them did catch on for exercise wear) to be extreme. On the > other hand, changes like lacing less tightly, wearing less > underclothing, suspending petticoat weight from the shoulders (which I > would find uncomfortable, but it was one reform idea), and wearing wool > next to the skin (which I wouldn't care for, but it was considered > healthful for a time), changes like this were less public and would not > have labeled the wearer as eccentric. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 14:25:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MIPrRM006448 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 14:25:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MIODNX008654 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 12:24:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MIOD0Y076586; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:24:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MIOA0Y076541 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:24:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m177.in-tch.com [216.166.191.177]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4MI0Ee10384 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:00:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40AF9BAA.8010201@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 12:27:54 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) References: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost> <40AF868F.2010305@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <40AF868F.2010305@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, I agree, definitely! We grew up with different clothes and ways of moving, and the whole bit. And I have no doubt that were I to make new 16th c. clothing (which I actually haven't worn in years), that my construction methods and materials would be significantly different from those I used 11 years ago. I'd be using linens, for one, and probably reeds for the pair of bodies, and either rope or willow for the farthingale. It would definitely be lighter! Some of us reenactors also live in very different climates (outside of any artificial heating or cooling aids) from the culture/time we recreate. You can end up with some pretty strange wardrobes! ;o) --sue Lavolta Press wrote: > Also, I think the concept of "this is what my reproduction clothes > weigh/feel like to wear" is not an entirely valid or complete evidence > of what people's clothes were like or felt like in any historic period. > Victorian corsets were put on females whose bones were still growing, > when bones are far easier to reshape, and sometimes with the express > purpose of ensuring a small waist/fashionable figure in adulthood. > Furthermore, I believe such reshaping requires pretty constant wearing > of the corset, at least during the day. (Such reshaping of bones by a > device is still often done, in the form of dental braces.) Putting on > the corset as an adult for occasional weekend and/or evening events > would not, I think, reshape the bones. > > It should also be remembered that many historic reenactment events take > place either indoors in buildings with central heating or outdoors in > warm weather. In other words, in situations where it is unnecessary to > wear heavy clothing for warmth, except perhaps a walk to a heated car. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 14:43:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MIhGRM006511 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 14:43:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MIfXNX009772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 12:41:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MIfU0Y084415; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:41:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MIfS0Z084383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:41:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-182.sonic.net [209.148.112.182]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4MIfOWe021673 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:41:26 -0700 Message-ID: <40AF9FE8.3050806@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:46:00 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) References: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost> <40AF868F.2010305@lavoltapress.com> <40AF9BAA.8010201@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <40AF9BAA.8010201@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Even in terms of actual antique clothing, dealers buy and sell over a wide variety of geographic areas. But what they buy to sell in a local store tends to be appropriate for a local climate (and appeal to the local market in other ways as well). When I used to buy from approval lots, unless I was specific about my wants the clothes I received from places like North Dakota were significantly different from what was sold here in the San Francisco Bay Area. Fran http://www.lavoltapress.com Sue Clemenger wrote: > Oh, I agree, definitely! We grew up with different clothes and ways of > moving, and the whole bit. > > Lavolta Press wrote: > >> Also, I think the concept of "this is what my reproduction clothes >> weigh/feel like to wear" is not an entirely valid or complete >> evidence of what people's clothes were like or felt like in any >> historic period. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 14:48:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MImlRM006521 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 14:48:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MIm9NX010173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 12:48:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MIm90Y087479; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:48:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MIm60Z087446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:48:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-182.sonic.net [209.148.112.182]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4MIlufN022499 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 11:48:05 -0700 Message-ID: <40AFA16F.8040608@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:52:31 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) References: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost> <40AF868F.2010305@lavoltapress.com> <40AF9A8D.7050706@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <40AF9A8D.7050706@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm going from memory here, but I think the book you refer to was "Eight Cousins." I think the orphan Rose's guardian was a doctor who did not believe in corsets for health reasons, and who resisted the advice of a female relative, a matron who advised him that if Rose did not wear corsets she would start "growing" or "developing"--something on that order. I do not know about Alcott's connection with dress reform but I think she did use her children's books to advocate various ideas about health, dress, and upbringing. Mind you, I have read none of her books since childhood. What have you read about Victorian corset wearing during pregnancy? What I have from memory is complaints from doctors that women at least sometimes wore corsets of a type and tightness that the thought impeded the growth of the fetus. Fran Sue Clemenger wrote: > This is reminding me of one of the Louisa May Alcott books ("Eight > Cousins?"), in which the pre-adolescent heroine is given much less > fashionably restrictive clothing by her new guardian. It's been > decades since I've read the book, and I'm not at all versed in much of > 19th c. anything, but I seem to recall that she (the heroine) wasn't > corseted, either, or had a more healthy corset, or something.... > Looking back on it, I also wonder if perhaps there wasn't some > classism as a subtext, since Our Heroine also spent time learning to > do "healthy" domestic chores like baking bread (more of a "middle > class" thing than an "upper class" thing). > I'd be interested to hear more about this from folks who know more > about reform dress and the philosophies behind it. Heck, I don't even > know if Alcott was a part of that movement (shame on me...I think a > trip to the library's in order today!) > --sue > > Fran wrote: > >> Getting back to reform dress, I don't think it would have had any >> adherents to speak of if women (and the doctors who advocated it) >> felt that its claims that corsets could deform the figure and that >> heavy garments impeded the wearer, were completely untrue. I also >> suspect there were degrees of adherence to reform principles. Many >> women considered highly unconventional outfits like bloomers (as day >> wear, forms of them did catch on for exercise wear) to be extreme. >> On the other hand, changes like lacing less tightly, wearing less >> underclothing, suspending petticoat weight from the shoulders (which >> I would find uncomfortable, but it was one reform idea), and wearing >> wool next to the skin (which I wouldn't care for, but it was >> considered healthful for a time), changes like this were less public >> and would not have labeled the wearer as eccentric. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 15:07:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MJ7URM006601 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:07:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MJ6sNX011200 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 13:06:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MJ6q0Y095657; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:06:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MJ6n0Y095625 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:06:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01734 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 14:08:28 -0500 Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 14:08:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) In-Reply-To: <40AF91D7.3090705@lavoltapress.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lavolta Press wrote: > Do you think a compressed ribcage would enlarge to a woman's natural > uncompressed size? I have no idea if a compressed ribcage would enlarge to "natural uncompressed size" in a nonpregnant woman who abandons the corsets after a given number of years corseted. If you're asking about pregnant women, I would expect that a formerly compressed ribcage that is freed from corsets during pregnancy would certainly expand from the effects of pregnancy alone, though whether it would achieve the same size and shape as it would have without the earlier compression, I couldn't guess. It's important to note that "natural uncompressed size" after pregnancy would certainly be different than "the size she would have been if she had not been corseted for years *and* had not become pregnant." Pregnancy itself is responsible for a number of changes in ribcage size and shape, so the post-pregnant figure will be different. (The mechanism, BTW, isn't simply pressure from the exapansion of the uterus. During pregnancy, the body releases certain hormones that "relax" the joints throughout the body. This allows not only for ribcage expansion during pregnancy, but also pelvic expansion at birth. And it has effects on other parts of the body, noticeably the feet.) ISTR that Victorian women wore different underpinnings after a certain point in pregnancy to accommodate expansion, but I have not studied this detail, and I have no idea if this vaguely remembered tidbit is true or what sort of acommodations were made. > I have been told that pregnancy can also alter the woman's fat > distribution, even if she gets back to the same weight as before the > pregnancy. Yes, particularly in the breasts, and nursing adds to the changes. Most women post a net loss in breast size after weaning (compared to pre-pregnancy size); some of us gain (I went up a cup size with each pregnancy, after weaning, compared to my pre-pregnancy size, even after I lost all my pregnancy weight). This has to do with the original proportions of ducts/glands vs. fat in the breasts; the proportions change during pregnancy and nursing, as these stages promote duct growth and diminish fat. So the direction of change is a matter of whether your original size consisted mostly of fat or of ductal/glandular tissue, as these tissues end up in different proportions afterward. I happened to have been duct-heavy to start (something noted on my mammograms) so I didn't have much fat to lose; the additional duct growth during nursing just made them bigger. A woman who starts with a lot of fat in her breasts will probably lose more in fat than she gains in ducts, and end up smaller after it's all over. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 15:15:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MJF0RM006660 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:15:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MJDDNX011587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 13:13:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MJDC0Y098671; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:13:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20721.mail.yahoo.com (web20721.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4MJCw0Y098507 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:13:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040522191256.48631.qmail@web20721.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.237.35.231] by web20721.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 22 May 2004 12:12:56 PDT Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 12:12:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > And some of the concepts are from xrays taken of the > women (when > xrays were still pretty new) and from autopsies. I > had a medical book > from the time period who showed drawings of the > autopsies and I had > another one from around the turn of the century > which showed xrays. > The more wasp waisted the corset was, the more it > tended to "squish" > things in odd directions. > > Kat > Have you seen the X-rays? I have seen some dress reformers' redrawings, but never the originals they purported to copy. I'd love a citation. Pictures of 'professional beauties' of the 1870' & 80's sometimes had some pretty heavy retouching of the waists to look narrower. Ann in CT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 15:39:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MJdNRM006763 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:39:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MJbTNX012775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 13:37:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MJbJ0Y009379; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:37:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MJbE0Y009332 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:37:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f69.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.105]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DCCB147FE4E for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:37:11 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <006001c44034$3cbef0c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 21:37:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] foaming at the mouth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. I have read your topic with interrest. In judging others or disagree in a matter that you think you are more knoledged in than others i would like to tell you a little story. Here in Denmark we have a lady i shall not name her, wich is running one of our museums with many costumes. She often is asked things in television and the like. One day i read in her book about the portrait i have on my second homepage, the white dress at the entering site. She claimed that this dress was a type of dress called a Brunswick dress. I was shocked when i read this, i have always known that this dress is a francaise dress. Until one day i went to the museum and studyed the painting very carefully. The painting is rather big so i could se many details. And guess what! She actually was right. For all my life i had always thoaght this was a robe a la francaise, but now i saw it i had to eat this back again. It was clearly seen at her right shoulder, that there was a hood in the back of this dress. Well for a long time i did not trust this woman in her books because when she could make such a silly mistake, how would all the other things whe told the public be to trust. What i want to tell you with this email is, that our buisiness is very very difficult to make any facts. What seems to be this, could very well be that..... And it is so easy to fall over a person who is not as knolledged as yourself. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 15:50:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MJoYRM006801 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:50:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MJnwNX013490 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 13:49:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MJnu0Y015040; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:49:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MJnr0Y015006 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:49:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 1AC355CC923; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:49:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0044.floodcity.net [198.93.211.44]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AF725CCA0D for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:49:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40AFAE47.8DC04445@floodcity.net> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:47:19 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Market wallets? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO you know I swear that I have seen something like this in the japanese stuff I have been reading. I have a friend who is half japanese and I was reading different pages about patterns for garments and bags and the historical use of them and these really date. it wouldn't be in the same area of the world, but I think this is interesting. I BELIEVE the japanese bags were not slit though, but double folded sort of like double fold tape so that the contents were tucked under the folds. Kitty Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > At 11:15 AM -0400 5/22/04, Lauren Walker wrote: > >Hi, Kitty, Hi, Kathleen, > >The wallet closes by being twisted in the middle, sort of the way my cousin > >used to make diapers small enough for her newborn son by twisting the part > >that went betwixt his teensy legs. The thing I find spiffy about the market > >wallet is that the opening is just a lengthwise slit; it gets closed in use > >by the twist and going over the shoulder. > > > >My wallet is about 14" wide by about 40" long. Didn't find or use a pattern, > >but modeled it off of this one: > > > >http://www.18cnewenglandlife.org/18cNEL/wallets.htm#Market%20Wallet > > > >modified to fit my gear and my height and the size of the piece of hemp > >canvas I had. > > Ah, ok, that _is_ the lineal descendent of the bags I was describing > in my previous post. I'm not having any luck finding examples > on-line at the moment, but the examples I use as comparative material > in my article on shepherds purses are: > > - scene of reapers from Egerton MS 2019 > - scenes of mowers and reapers from the Hours of Henry VIII > - travelers in an annunciation scene in frescos at Atri, Italy > > I've found examples of the style at least as early as the 14th > century, and they're fairly common in the 15-16th centuries. (My > research on this project doesn't go much beyond the 16th c. because > the artifact I'm focusing on doesn't show up much beyond that.) > > Heather > -- > ***** > Heather Rose Jones > hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu > ***** > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 15:52:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MJqnRM006820 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:52:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MJoqNX013526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 13:50:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MJoq0Y015523; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:50:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MJnr0Y015005 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:49:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 18E7E5CC921; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:49:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0044.floodcity.net [198.93.211.44]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AF725CCA0D for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:49:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40AFAE47.8DC04445@floodcity.net> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:47:19 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Market wallets? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO you know I swear that I have seen something like this in the japanese stuff I have been reading. I have a friend who is half japanese and I was reading different pages about patterns for garments and bags and the historical use of them and these really date. it wouldn't be in the same area of the world, but I think this is interesting. I BELIEVE the japanese bags were not slit though, but double folded sort of like double fold tape so that the contents were tucked under the folds. Kitty Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > At 11:15 AM -0400 5/22/04, Lauren Walker wrote: > >Hi, Kitty, Hi, Kathleen, > >The wallet closes by being twisted in the middle, sort of the way my cousin > >used to make diapers small enough for her newborn son by twisting the part > >that went betwixt his teensy legs. The thing I find spiffy about the market > >wallet is that the opening is just a lengthwise slit; it gets closed in use > >by the twist and going over the shoulder. > > > >My wallet is about 14" wide by about 40" long. Didn't find or use a pattern, > >but modeled it off of this one: > > > >http://www.18cnewenglandlife.org/18cNEL/wallets.htm#Market%20Wallet > > > >modified to fit my gear and my height and the size of the piece of hemp > >canvas I had. > > Ah, ok, that _is_ the lineal descendent of the bags I was describing > in my previous post. I'm not having any luck finding examples > on-line at the moment, but the examples I use as comparative material > in my article on shepherds purses are: > > - scene of reapers from Egerton MS 2019 > - scenes of mowers and reapers from the Hours of Henry VIII > - travelers in an annunciation scene in frescos at Atri, Italy > > I've found examples of the style at least as early as the 14th > century, and they're fairly common in the 15-16th centuries. (My > research on this project doesn't go much beyond the 16th c. because > the artifact I'm focusing on doesn't show up much beyond that.) > > Heather > -- > ***** > Heather Rose Jones > hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu > ***** > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 16:07:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MK7uRM006854 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 16:07:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MK7LNX014242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 14:07:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MK7J0Y023154; Sat, 22 May 2004 14:07:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MK7H0Z023130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 14:07:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-220.sonic.net [209.148.112.220]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4MK7ESm013196 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:07:16 -0700 Message-ID: <40AFB407.50608@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 13:11:51 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear References: <20040522191256.48631.qmail@web20721.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040522191256.48631.qmail@web20721.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is no reason to assume all redrawings are automatically incorrect--this is similar to the reenactorism that "all secondary sources are incorrect," which professional historians do not assert by any means. Frasn >Have you seen the X-rays? > >I have seen some dress reformers' redrawings, but >never the originals they purported to copy. > >I'd love a citation. > > >Pictures of 'professional beauties' of the 1870' & >80's sometimes had some pretty heavy retouching of the >waists to look narrower. > >Ann in CT > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year >http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 17:01:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ML19RM007035 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 17:01:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MKxHNX017639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 14:59:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MKxD0Y046598; Sat, 22 May 2004 14:59:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav7.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MKxB0Y046536 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 14:59:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:59:04 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav7.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:59:04 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006001c44034$3cbef0c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] foaming at the mouth Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 16:59:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2004 20:59:04.0403 (UTC) FILETIME=[9D939A30:01C4403F] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What i want to tell you with this email is, that our buisiness is very very > difficult to make any facts. What seems to be this, could very well be > that..... Thank you Bjarne. I think we need to keep this in mind when we deal with other "knowledgeable" people. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 17:03:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ML3qRM007041 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 17:03:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ML3DNX017922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 15:03:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ML3D0Y048387; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:03:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav21.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.125]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ML3B0Y048338 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:03:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 22 May 2004 14:03:10 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav21.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:03:10 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040522191256.48631.qmail@web20721.mail.yahoo.com> <40AFB407.50608@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 17:03:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2004 21:03:10.0131 (UTC) FILETIME=[300AB830:01C44040] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No, but if they were in books *against* corsetry, I'd consider the possiblilty that *maybe* the author *might* have redrawn it a bit more exagerated than it would have been. I'd be curious to compare this with redrawings found in books that were *for* corsetting. Also, the fact that the bones (or organs, for that matter) were displaced is not an indication that the woman was in pain or unhealthy. I agree that there is no reason to assume that all redrawings are automatically incorrect, but I never, ever trust them without seeing the original (or a similar primary source that says the same thing), because I've seen too many faulty ones. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear > There is no reason to assume all redrawings are automatically > incorrect--this is similar to the reenactorism that "all secondary > sources are incorrect," which professional historians do not assert by > any means. > > Frasn > > >Have you seen the X-rays? > > > >I have seen some dress reformers' redrawings, but > >never the originals they purported to copy. > > > >I'd love a citation. > > > > > >Pictures of 'professional beauties' of the 1870' & > >80's sometimes had some pretty heavy retouching of the > >waists to look narrower. > > > >Ann in CT > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year > >http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 17:38:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MLcFRM007168 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 17:38:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MLbQNX019687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 15:37:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MLbO0Y063752; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:37:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MLbM0Z063732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:37:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-234.sonic.net [209.148.112.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4MLbJIs024754 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 14:37:21 -0700 Message-ID: <40AFC924.3070906@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 14:41:56 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear References: <20040522191256.48631.qmail@web20721.mail.yahoo.com> <40AFB407.50608@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Also, the fact that the bones (or organs, for that matter) were displaced is >not an indication that the woman was in pain or unhealthy. > > Then one might ask why some women--a minority, perhaps, but there was a real and long-lasting movement--chose to wear reform garments, and advocate them to others. Surely they knew how comfortable and/or healthy they personally felt? >I agree that there is no reason to assume that all redrawings are >automatically incorrect, but I never, ever trust them without seeing the >original (or a similar primary source that says the same thing), because >I've seen too many faulty ones. > > > > > Have you ever seen original X-rays of Victorian women's torsos, whether with deformed ribcages or not? For that matter, are the originals of most redrawn or photographed art and artifacts readily available to you, or likely to be? For modern analyses of dress reform, I'd suggest Patricia Cunnington's _Reforming Women's Fashion, 1850-1920_ and Stella Mary Newton's _Health, Art, and Reason: Dress Reformers of the 19th Century_. Fran _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 17:45:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MLjORM007196 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 17:45:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MLgUNX019949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 15:42:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MLgT0Y066102; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:42:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MLgS0Y066068 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 15:42:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 255945CC8B9; Sat, 22 May 2004 17:42:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0056.floodcity.net [198.93.211.56]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C70CE5CC77A for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 17:42:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40AFC8B7.EAFFC831@floodcity.net> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 17:40:07 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <200405221141.AA49545318@thrednedlestrete.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO it seems to me I read somewhere that it was considered indecent (in some place at some time in the last 200 years or so which is my main interest) to wear less than 3 petticoats and six or eight was not unheard of. also, if a petticoat was made of wool, for winter warmth, it would weigh considerably more than a cotton or linen one, wouldn't it? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 18:59:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4MMxjRM007691 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 18:59:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MMvoNX023899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 16:57:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MMvb0Y098852; Sat, 22 May 2004 16:57:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4MMva0Y098842 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 16:57:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2inil1e.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.84.46] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BRfQt-0002Jn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 22 May 2004 18:57:35 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200405220317.i4M3Ha0a013936@net.indra.com> References: <200405220317.i4M3Ha0a013936@net.indra.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 18:35:18 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Joann's Sale X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:17 PM -0600 5/21/04, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >I was at JoAnn's today, and Simplicity was the only pattern company NOT on >sale for 99cents or 75% off(Vogue). Where is the sale??? >-Megan Uh In MD, I had to ask for the 99 cent price...maybe the new sales help was being *too* nice??? Ta Carol -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 20:08:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N08ZRM008143 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:08:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N07wNX028262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 18:07:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N07t0Y029826; Sat, 22 May 2004 18:07:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N07q0Y029768 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 18:07:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1e5.210d7b05 (3890) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:07:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1e5.210d7b05.2de1454c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:07:40 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/22/04 4:38:25 PM Central Daylight Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: Then one might ask why some women--a minority, perhaps, but there was a real and long-lasting movement--chose to wear reform garments, and advocate them to others. Surely they knew how comfortable and/or healthy they personally felt? There's a difference between being uncomfortable, and being in pain. I don't wear corsets often enough to be able to say that I find them extremely comfortable, but they do not cause me actual pain when I wear them. They are far enough from my personal comfort zone (I'm a tank tops and workout pants kinda girl) that I don't wear them unless I am in garb that requires one to achieve the correct appearance. I'm know there were proponents of reform garb who were concerned about the overall health of women, but I imagine there were also women who simply really liked the freedom and elevated comfort of reform garments. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 20:13:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N0DpRM008154 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:13:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N0C3NX028463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 18:12:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N0C20Y031705; Sat, 22 May 2004 18:12:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N0Bf0Y031525 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 18:11:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 29EFC5CC6F9; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:11:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0180.floodcity.net [198.93.211.180]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA4D85CC899 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40AFEBBA.69A15734@floodcity.net> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:09:30 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost> <40AF868F.2010305@lavoltapress.com> <40AF9BAA.8010201@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] questions grow the more I read X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO While discussing the weight of underwear Sue Clemenger wrote: > > Oh, I agree, definitely! We grew up with different clothes and ways of > moving, and the whole bit. And I have no doubt that were I to make new > 16th c. clothing (which I actually haven't worn in years), that my > construction methods and materials would be significantly different from > those I used 11 years ago. I'd be using linens, for one, and probably > reeds for the pair of bodies, and either rope or willow for the > farthingale. It would definitely be lighter! To which I ask.... so what would be appropriate for an middle/late 19th century costume? Did the middle class still wear linen, or was it cotton? where did linsey/woolsy come in, was it over and done with by then? did women wear it or did only men? Would she wear cotton dresses or wool, Linen or silk? and from there I go on to inquire... do I understand your terminology right? is a crinoline a peticoat with netting attached to it to give the skirt over it poof? and what era was this crinoline worn? I know at some point that lots of petticoats gave the shape to the skirts, when were hoops introduced and where did the crinoline fit in? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 20:26:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N0QSRM008183 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:26:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N0PuNX029358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 18:25:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N0Pr0Y037915; Sat, 22 May 2004 18:25:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N0Pp0Y037862 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 18:25:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1db.22363399 (3890) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:25:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1db.22363399.2de14985@aol.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:25:41 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Louisa May Alcott X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/22/04 1:21:15 PM Central Daylight Time, mooncat@in-tch.com writes: I'd be interested to hear more about this from folks who know more about reform dress and the philosophies behind it. Heck, I don't even know if Alcott was a part of that movement (shame on me...I think a trip to the library's in order today!) --sue http://www.louisamayalcott.org/ I LOVE this site, you might find it interesting as well. It has a virtual tour of Orchard House, and links to some really fascinating biographical information on Louisa May Alcott. I had always kind of assumed that she was more or less Jo, but her story is both far more interesting and in some ways more tragic. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 20:47:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N0ljRM008298 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:47:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N0lANX000410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 18:47:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N0l80Y046589; Sat, 22 May 2004 18:47:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N0l50Z046568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 18:47:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-247.sonic.net [209.148.112.247]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4N0l3H4018657 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 17:47:04 -0700 Message-ID: <40AFF59B.30208@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 17:51:39 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear References: <1e5.210d7b05.2de1454c@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1e5.210d7b05.2de1454c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >There's a difference between being uncomfortable, and being in pain. I don't >wear corsets often enough to be able to say that I find them extremely >comfortable, but they do not cause me actual pain when I wear them. They are far >enough from my personal comfort zone (I'm a tank tops and workout pants kinda >girl) that I don't wear them unless I am in garb that requires one to achieve >the correct appearance. > > Yes, but here you're judging 19th-century corset wearing by your own experience, which is not necessarily a valid guide. >I'm know there were proponents of reform garb who were concerned about the >overall health of women, but I imagine there were also women who simply really >liked the freedom and elevated comfort of reform garments. > > > > Is what you "imagine" about 19th-century corset wearing any more valid than what anyone else may "imagine"? Chat is fine, it's just no basis to use to "correct" anyone else with a different opinion. Fran _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 20:57:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N0vaRM008429 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:57:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N0v2NX000885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 18:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N0v10Y050652; Sat, 22 May 2004 18:57:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail7.mdx.safepages.com (mail7.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N0v00Y050615 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 18:57:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A9DEE4A98 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 00:56:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail7.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail7.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 39184-02 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 00:56:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id ED7A7E4B23; Sun, 23 May 2004 00:56:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust132.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.132]) by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E6C85E4B23 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 00:56:47 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <02b101c44061$0ce5f920$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40AFAE47.8DC04445@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Market wallets? Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:58:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've seen similar 19thC American Indian wallets (the double folded sort), though I can't remember at the moment which tribe. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty Felton" . . . > same area of the world, but I think this is interesting. I BELIEVE the > japanese bags were not slit though, but double folded sort of like > double fold tape so that the contents were tucked under the folds. > Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 21:13:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N1DaRM008478 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:13:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N19uNX001688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 19:09:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N19r0Y055931; Sat, 22 May 2004 19:09:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N19j0Y055853 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 19:09:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.130.97]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 805D981F06 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 18:09:44 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 18:09:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear Message-ID: <40AF9767.31994.C8B4757@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20040522191256.48631.qmail@web20721.mail.yahoo.com> References: <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Have you seen the X-rays? Yes, I have. They were in a medical book. > I have seen some dress reformers' redrawings, but > never the originals they purported to copy. These were not in dress reformer's redrawings or a costume book. They were in medical books of the time. The drawings were not done to sensationalize anything but just to show what was "normal" in women. The more recent of the two books actually had tipped in "photographs" of the xrays. (The first xray was taken around 1896 but these were a decade or so later.) The other were medical illustrations done by surgeons for teaching purposes. If I had found these in a costume book or a book meant for the lay public, then I would have as much scepticism as you have. But the fact is that they were in a medical book (similar to what modern medicine has like Harrison's, Cecil's or Nelson's.) I no longer have the books so I can't give you a citation. They had to be discarded after a storage room was flooded and the books ruined. I now have others which are older, but they are all early pediatric books. (So if you want to know how pediatric diseases were treated and general care of children in 1875, that I can still give you citations on.) However, I have seen modern xrays of corsetted people as well. (Doctors show the weirdest things at CME conferences.) If you are truly interested, you might try going to some of the medical schools where they have medical books of historic interest. They would probably be in the rare book section at this point. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 21:56:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N1uBRM008583 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:56:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N1tYNX004116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 19:55:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N1tT0Y075435; Sat, 22 May 2004 19:55:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N1tR0Z075420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 19:55:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-247.sonic.net [209.148.112.247]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4N1tOEQ028167 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 18:55:25 -0700 Message-ID: <40B005A0.4020404@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:00:00 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear References: <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost> <40AF9767.31994.C8B4757@localhost> In-Reply-To: <40AF9767.31994.C8B4757@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >These were not in dress reformer's redrawings or a costume book. They >were in medical books of the time. The drawings were not done to >sensationalize anything but just to show what was "normal" in women. \ > > By "normal," did they mean women whose bodies had not been altered by corsetry? Fran _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 22:03:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N23MRM008602 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:03:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N22jNX004457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 20:02:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N22Z0Y078706; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:02:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav3.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N22T0Y078560 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:02:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 22 May 2004 19:02:21 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav3.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 23 May 2004 02:02:20 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200405221141.AA49545318@thrednedlestrete.com> <40AFC8B7.EAFFC831@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 22:03:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2004 02:02:21.0183 (UTC) FILETIME=[FBB3E0F0:01C44069] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, linen is much heavier than wool, for the same thickness of fabric. I think even cotton is heavier than wool. Wool used in garmets would probably have been pretty thin, so it wouldn't have weighted more than the same thing made of cotton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty Felton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 5:40 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear > it seems to me I read somewhere that it was considered indecent (in some > place at some time in the last 200 years or so which is my main > interest) to wear less than 3 petticoats and six or eight was not > unheard of. also, if a petticoat was made of wool, for winter warmth, > it would weigh considerably more than a cotton or linen one, wouldn't > it? > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 22:11:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N2BQRM008623 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:11:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2AnNX004874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 20:10:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2Ah0Y081962; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:10:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav2.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2Af0Y081925 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:10:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 22 May 2004 19:10:36 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav2.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 23 May 2004 02:10:35 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040522191256.48631.qmail@web20721.mail.yahoo.com> <40AFB407.50608@lavoltapress.com> <40AFC924.3070906@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 22:11:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2004 02:10:36.0139 (UTC) FILETIME=[22B82BB0:01C4406B] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >Also, the fact that the bones (or organs, for that matter) were displaced is > >not an indication that the woman was in pain or unhealthy. > > > Then one might ask why some women--a minority, perhaps, but there was a > real and long-lasting movement--chose to wear reform garments, and > advocate them to others. Surely they knew how comfortable and/or > healthy they personally felt? Yes, but we can't know that. Again, organ or bone displacement can not be equated with discomfort and/or illness. You could make the hypothesis that women who chose to wear reform garments never came to the point where their bones were deformed. I'm not saying that those garments didn't cause pain or illness. They did, to some women at least (and the fact that I don't think it was generalized really doesn't matter in this conversation). I'm just saying that the only thing you can say by looking at a deformed X-ray is "that woman had deformed bones" or "that women's organs were displaced". There is no real basis for you to say "that woman was in pain" or "that woman was ill". If you look at an X-ray of a pregnant woman, you'll see that her bones and organs are very far from their normal place. She's not ill because of it. Granted, that's natural displacement, while that caused by a corset isn't. But the fact that the organs or bones are displaced doesn't indicate illness or discomfort. (Even if a pregnancy IS uncomfortable... to some extent :-) > >I agree that there is no reason to assume that all redrawings are > >automatically incorrect, but I never, ever trust them without seeing the > >original (or a similar primary source that says the same thing), because > >I've seen too many faulty ones. > Have you ever seen original X-rays of Victorian women's torsos, whether > with deformed ribcages or not? For that matter, are the originals of > most redrawn or photographed art and artifacts readily available to you, > or likely to be? That's not the point. The point is, I might do research with secondary sources, but I'll never trust them. You can, if you wish. I don't. And this conversation is starting to run around in circles... so I'll stop now. > For modern analyses of dress reform, I'd suggest Patricia Cunnington's > _Reforming Women's Fashion, 1850-1920_ and Stella Mary Newton's _Health, > Art, and Reason: Dress Reformers of the 19th Century_. Sorry, but I'm not really interested in this period. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 22:14:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N2EmRM008632 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:14:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2D0NX004947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 20:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2Cw0Y082822; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:12:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav4.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2Ct0Y082778 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:12:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 22 May 2004 19:12:49 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav4.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 23 May 2004 02:12:49 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost><40AF868F.2010305@lavoltapress.com> <40AF9A8D.7050706@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 22:13:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2004 02:12:49.0719 (UTC) FILETIME=[7256DC70:01C4406B] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > fashionably restrictive clothing by her new guardian. It's been decades > since I've read the book, and I'm not at all versed in much of 19th c. > anything, but I seem to recall that she (the heroine) wasn't corseted, > either, or had a more healthy corset, or something.... The supposed "health corsets" were, in fact, the (in)famous S-bend corsets. They were "supposed" to be more healthy, but I believe the're actually worse... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 22:18:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N2IURM008642 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:18:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2HuNX005153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 20:17:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2Ht0Y084868; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:17:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav28.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2Hq0Y084814 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:17:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 22 May 2004 19:17:46 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav28.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 23 May 2004 02:17:46 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost><40AF9767.31994.C8B4757@localhost> <40B005A0.4020404@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 22:18:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2004 02:17:46.0905 (UTC) FILETIME=[2379D890:01C4406C] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >These were not in dress reformer's redrawings or a costume book. They > >were in medical books of the time. The drawings were not done to > >sensationalize anything but just to show what was "normal" in women. \ > > > > > By "normal," did they mean women whose bodies had not been altered by > corsetry? > I think just about everyone wore corsets. Corset-wearing was normal. Some medical texts even advocate corset wearing by saying something around the lines of "women wouldn't be able to walk upright without them". Breathing was thought to occur differently in men and women because women wore corsets. By "normal", you mean just that, a "normal" woman of the time, wearing a corset, of course. Someone not wearing a corset would have to be mentally or physically ill, or pregnant, so that wouldn't count as someone "normal". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 22:21:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N2LpRM008651 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:21:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2KnNX005259 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 20:20:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2Km0Y086099; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:20:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fallback-mx4.atl.registeredsite.com (fallback-mx4.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2Kk0Y086091 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:20:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@cybergal.com) Received: from mail2.atl.registeredsite.com (mail2.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.76]) by fallback-mx4.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4N1vOFK001752 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 01:57:24 GMT Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) by mail2.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4N1urHX027340 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 01:56:54 GMT Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.51.41]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:56:52 -0500 From: "A.Thurman" To: Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 21:56:45 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c44069$352530b0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been reading the story of Bice's frustration with ill-informed docents, and the subsequent debate re: whether claims of deformation by corsetry have any basis in fact, how to enlighten uninformed museum personnel, etc. Here's my rough take: 1) While I don't think that Victorian undergarments were grossly disfiguring, threw the wearer off balance, or that ribs were removed to get/retain the fashionable hourglass (I think Valerie Steele's "The Corset" debunked most of the more extreme myths), I do think Fran has a point that corsets worn from childhood onwards are going to have some kind of permanent (even if not extreme) effect on the shape of the body. In adulthood - who knows? (Tangential: I remember reading in the Laura Ingalls "Little House" series that Laura didn't start wearing a corset until 16, and her Ma made her wear it at night to make up time. She hated it and always took it off. Does anyone else remember this? I don't have the book in front of me at the moment). 2) There is new research coming out all the time and I'm sure the museum curators have a hard enough time keeping up, let alone handing the information down to the docents. 3) Definitely send a letter, but a gentle one, not a nasty one. It also irks me that inaccurate information is being distributed under the guise of historical information, but yelling and screaming never converted anyone! Recommend some of the latest research and go back in a couple of years and see what (if anything) happened. 4) The confrontational part of me says - yes, dress up in full Victorian gear and tour the museum, showing your full balance and lack of crushed ribcages ;) Just my $.02 Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 22:29:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N2TQRM008667 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:29:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2SoNX005728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 20:28:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2Sn0Y089534; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:28:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2Sl0Z089515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:28:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-247.sonic.net [209.148.112.247]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4N2SiFF032030 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 19:28:46 -0700 Message-ID: <40B00D71.7040401@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:33:21 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear References: <20040522191256.48631.qmail@web20721.mail.yahoo.com> <40AFB407.50608@lavoltapress.com> <40AFC924.3070906@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >I'm not saying that those garments didn't cause pain or illness. They did, >to some women at least (and the fact that I don't think it was generalized >really doesn't matter in this conversation). I'm just saying that the only >thing you can say by looking at a deformed X-ray is "that woman had deformed >bones" or "that women's organs were displaced". There is no real basis for >you to say "that woman was in pain" or "that woman was ill". > > I am in fact not saying that all Victorian women were "in pain" or "ill." What I am saying is that a long-standing dress reform movement makes it clear that its followers, who often asserted that fashionable clothing was heavy and that corsets were bad for the health felt that were advantages to reform dress, and there is a fair amount of existing literature to this effect. >If you look at an X-ray of a pregnant woman, you'll see that her bones and >organs are very far from their normal place. She's not ill because of it. >Granted, that's natural displacement, while that caused by a corset isn't. >But the fact that the organs or bones are displaced doesn't indicate illness >or discomfort. (Even if a pregnancy IS uncomfortable... to some extent :-) > > I don't see that this is a basis to say that Victorian women who claimed that fashionable dress was uncomfortable or that it affected their health were mistaken or lying. Surely they were in the best position to know how they felt? >That's not the point. The point is, I might do research with secondary >sources, but I'll never trust them. You can, if you wish. I don't. > > There is a level of analysis between total trust and total distrust of anything. I would never say "All secondary (or primary) sources are reliable (or unreliable). I would never say "All information in this one source is reliable (or unreliable)." It is far too simplistic to throw everything into the same basket. It is also simplistic to think there is any way to avoid analysis of information. But just because you analyze a source does not mean you are superior to it. Fran > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 22:31:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N2VLRM008685 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:31:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2UoNX005803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 20:30:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2Un0Y090402; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:30:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2Ul0Z090374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:30:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-247.sonic.net [209.148.112.247]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4N2Ui75013701 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 19:30:46 -0700 Message-ID: <40B00DE9.5020207@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:35:21 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear References: <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost><40AF9767.31994.C8B4757@localhost> <40B005A0.4020404@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO But corset wearing is by no means identical to tight lacing. I would assume that a long period of tight lacing is far more likely to modify the body permanently. Fran >I think just about everyone wore corsets. Corset-wearing was normal. Some >medical texts even advocate corset wearing by saying something around the >lines of "women wouldn't be able to walk upright without them". Breathing >was thought to occur differently in men and women because women wore >corsets. By "normal", you mean just that, a "normal" woman of the time, >wearing a corset, of course. Someone not wearing a corset would have to be >mentally or physically ill, or pregnant, so that wouldn't count as someone >"normal". > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 22:32:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N2WVRM008692 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:32:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2VtNX005893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 20:31:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2Vr0Y090825; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:31:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2Vg0Z090765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:31:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-247.sonic.net [209.148.112.247]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4N2Ve4W013785 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 19:31:41 -0700 Message-ID: <40B00E21.1010205@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:36:17 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) References: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost><40AF868F.2010305@lavoltapress.com> <40AF9A8D.7050706@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There were many other types of corsets and alternative corsets that were supposed to be conducive to health in one way or another. Fran http://www.lavoltapress.com >The supposed "health corsets" were, in fact, the (in)famous S-bend corsets. >They were "supposed" to be more healthy, but I believe the're actually >worse... >_______________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 22:57:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N2vVRM008796 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:57:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2uhNX007183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 20:56:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2uf0Y001175; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:56:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N2ue0Y001143 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:56:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A2E41C100068; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:56:36 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.115]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 22 May 2004 22:56:35 -0400 Message-ID: <003b01c44072$6c5b7900$735183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole><40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost> <40AF868F.2010305@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 23:02:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2004 02:56:36.0087 (UTC) FILETIME=[8FC6D070:01C44071] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ..."unconventional...bloomers" I was surprised to see the number of these costumes that appear in Severa's photos from the 19th C.It might appear that some women did embrace that particular oddity with some pride when they had their photos taken, in a period when other women were conventional indeed. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:57 PM Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) > Also, I think the concept of "this is what my reproduction clothes > weigh/feel like to wear" is not an entirely valid or complete evidence > of what people's clothes were like or felt like in any historic period. > Victorian corsets were put on females whose bones were still growing, > when bones are far easier to reshape, and sometimes with the express > purpose of ensuring a small waist/fashionable figure in adulthood. > Furthermore, I believe such reshaping requires pretty constant wearing > of the corset, at least during the day. (Such reshaping of bones by a > device is still often done, in the form of dental braces.) Putting on > the corset as an adult for occasional weekend and/or evening events > would not, I think, reshape the bones. > > It should also be remembered that many historic reenactment events take > place either indoors in buildings with central heating or outdoors in > warm weather. In other words, in situations where it is unnecessary to > wear heavy clothing for warmth, except perhaps a walk to a heated car. > > Getting back to reform dress, I don't think it would have had any > adherents to speak of if women (and the doctors who advocated it) felt > that its claims that corsets could deform the figure and that heavy > garments impeded the wearer, were completely untrue. I also suspect > there were degrees of adherence to reform principles. Many women > considered highly unconventional outfits like bloomers (as day wear, > forms of them did catch on for exercise wear) to be extreme. On the > other hand, changes like lacing less tightly, wearing less > underclothing, suspending petticoat weight from the shoulders (which I > would find uncomfortable, but it was one reform idea), and wearing wool > next to the skin (which I wouldn't care for, but it was considered > healthful for a time), changes like this were less public and would not > have labeled the wearer as eccentric. > > Fran > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > >And some of the concepts are from xrays taken of the women (when > >xrays were still pretty new) and from autopsies. I had a medical book > >from the time period who showed drawings of the autopsies and I had > >another one from around the turn of the century which showed xrays. > >The more wasp waisted the corset was, the more it tended to "squish" > >things in odd directions. > > > >They also tended to make the women breath differently than men (which > >probably contributed to some of those women being more prone to the > >"vapors" and passing out.) The medical books describe the "mechanism > >of breathing" very differently for men and women. It certainly > >hampered their understanding of physiology (which was not well > >understood at the time so they were doing a lot of investigation.) > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 23:09:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N39CRM008821 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 23:09:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N37LNX007626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 21:07:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N37K0Y005289; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:07:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N37H0Y005273 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:07:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A5651C550068; Sat, 22 May 2004 23:07:17 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.115]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 22 May 2004 23:07:16 -0400 Message-ID: <004501c44073$ea61a120$735183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1e3.210a8647.2de0e285@aol.com> <40AF8C4D.5000709@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 23:13:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2004 03:07:17.0064 (UTC) FILETIME=[0DD42480:01C44073] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Why do I get the idea that we are still making the same kinds of judgements and voicing similar disatisfactions as on the subject of the 'Colonial House'? I guess some of us find our entertainment, or make it in diverse ways. Afterall, that is part of being human. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth > I guess I just don't see where this has happened here. If we were talking > > >about walking up to someone on the street and saying, "give me a list of 5 facts > >regarding Victorian era customs" and they stumbled through it or gave > >misinformation, then I think we'd be unjustified in feeling concerned about their > >lack of veracity. > > > > > Why? I'm not at all concerned--even though I try to get my facts > correct as much as possible. The actions of some docents in some museum > I am unconnected with are simply not my business. > > >But since the tour guides in a historical museum are putting forth their > >statements as fact > > > And as I've been trying to point out, some of tour guides' statements > are not without basis. > > > and since the average tour participant will most likely take > >the statements at face value > > > Why? There are an enormous number of sources of information publicly > available, and most modern people are by no means naive about the fact > that some information they receive is incorrect. That's assuming > they're even interested enough in the subject to care, and that a museum > tour is anything more than a pleasant afternoon whose details they will > soon forget. > > >( > >I would not advocate intentionally trying to be "snotty" (although to give > >credit, I think the person who used that term was being facetious) to anyone for > >any reason, but I do not feel that it is out of line to be upset about > >blatant misinforming, or to try to figure out what action, if any, is appropriate to > >express such concern. > > > > > > Well, I do. Other people and institutions run things their way, and it > is not everyone else's business to supervise them all. > > Fran > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 23:12:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N3CARM008828 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 23:12:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N3ALNX007746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 21:10:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N3AK0Y006512; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:10:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N3AG0Y006484 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:10:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A6181C6F0068; Sat, 22 May 2004 23:10:16 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.115]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 22 May 2004 23:10:15 -0400 Message-ID: <004b01c44074$5523a580$735183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1e3.210a8647.2de0e285@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 23:16:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2004 03:10:16.0128 (UTC) FILETIME=[788F2400:01C44073] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maybe you could work harder at becoming one of the 'in' crowd where you might have opportunity to help them update their interpretation. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth > I am more concerned about the info being given to children and BOCES > students. It wasn't simply the clothing it was that he didn't know who > Eastlake the company who designed the furniture was. Had no clue about > Japonesque and it's influences. Called the house Ren Revival when it is in > fact Italianate. And various other mistake I *know* he didn't learn at the > hands of some of the wonderfully smart people there who I know from my > grandfather's auction. And I'm sorry Fran that you see an ulterior motive to > my being so upset and the information being given out by someone who should > know better. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 1:06 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth > > > > In a message dated 5/22/04 11:57:54 AM Central Daylight Time, > > fran@lavoltapress.com writes: > > I'm not judging what she has or has not actually done, but the practice > > of "let's get together and run down people who are more ignorant than we > > are." I personally am not a like-minded person in this respect. > > > > Fran > > > > > > I guess I just don't see where this has happened here. If we were talking > > about walking up to someone on the street and saying, "give me a list of 5 > facts > > regarding Victorian era customs" and they stumbled through it or gave > > misinformation, then I think we'd be unjustified in feeling concerned > about their > > lack of veracity. > > > > But since the tour guides in a historical museum are putting forth their > > statements as fact, and since the average tour participant will most > likely take > > the statements at face value (and assume that the tour guide has done his > or > > her homework), I think it's fair for us to expect a higher level of > education > > and truth from them; and to be concerned by such perpetuating of > ignorance. > > > > I would not advocate intentionally trying to be "snotty" (although to give > > credit, I think the person who used that term was being facetious) to > anyone for > > any reason, but I do not feel that it is out of line to be upset about > > blatant misinforming, or to try to figure out what action, if any, is > appropriate to > > express such concern. > > > > -Tiffany > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 23:23:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N3NxRM008863 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 23:23:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N3NPNX008204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 21:23:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N3NM0Y011743; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:23:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N3NI0Y011709 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:23:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.130.97]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13C9A3274A for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:23:16 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:23:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear Message-ID: <40AFB6B1.18731.D058048@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > By "normal," did they mean women whose bodies had not been altered > > by corsetry? No, normal because that's what you'd see on a routine basis in your practice. > I think just about everyone wore corsets. Corset-wearing was normal. > Some medical texts even advocate corset wearing by saying something > around the lines of "women wouldn't be able to walk upright without > them". Breathing was thought to occur differently in men and women > because women wore corsets. By "normal", you mean just that, a > "normal" woman of the time, wearing a corset, of course. Someone not > wearing a corset would have to be mentally or physically ill, or > pregnant, so that wouldn't count as someone "normal". Exactly. The medical books I've seen didn't say "oh, this is so wrong." It was more like "this is what real people you see in your practice are like, so you need to know this is what to expect." But I want to emphasize that this has nothing to do with "tight lacing". This is just everyday normal wear, as opposed to people trying to have the smallest waist or other extreme. It was more to "keep the back straight" and other things felt to be "healthy." Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 23:28:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N3SaRM008879 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 23:28:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N3QjNX008377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 21:26:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N3Qh0Y013122; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:26:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N3Qf0Y013102 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:26:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A9F01CDA0068; Sat, 22 May 2004 23:26:40 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.115]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 22 May 2004 23:26:40 -0400 Message-ID: <008c01c44076$9fde96a0$735183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost><40AF9767.31994.C8B4757@localhost><40B005A0.4020404@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 23:32:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2004 03:26:40.0493 (UTC) FILETIME=[C34951D0:01C44075] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So what about the men who did wear corsets ? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear > > > >These were not in dress reformer's redrawings or a costume book. They > > >were in medical books of the time. The drawings were not done to > > >sensationalize anything but just to show what was "normal" in women. \ > > > > > > > > By "normal," did they mean women whose bodies had not been altered by > > corsetry? > > > > I think just about everyone wore corsets. Corset-wearing was normal. Some > medical texts even advocate corset wearing by saying something around the > lines of "women wouldn't be able to walk upright without them". Breathing > was thought to occur differently in men and women because women wore > corsets. By "normal", you mean just that, a "normal" woman of the time, > wearing a corset, of course. Someone not wearing a corset would have to be > mentally or physically ill, or pregnant, so that wouldn't count as someone > "normal". > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 23:34:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N3Y5RM008917 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 23:34:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N3WFNX008667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 21:32:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N3WF0Y015202; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:32:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N3WD0Z015192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:32:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-247.sonic.net [209.148.112.247]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4N3WB2W020702 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 20:32:12 -0700 Message-ID: <40B01C4F.1010209@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:36:47 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear References: <40AFB6B1.18731.D058048@localhost> In-Reply-To: <40AFB6B1.18731.D058048@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So if there were women whose skeletons had been deformed by tight lacing, that is not what these books were trying to show? Such deformity might have been sometimes seen, but that is not what was chosen as an example in these books? Fran >The medical books I've seen didn't say "oh, this is so wrong." It was >more like "this is what real people you see in your practice are >like, so you need to know this is what to expect." > >But I want to emphasize that this has nothing to do with "tight >lacing". This is just everyday normal wear, as opposed to people >trying to have the smallest waist or other extreme. It was more to >"keep the back straight" and other things felt to be "healthy." > >Kat > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 23:35:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N3ZqRM008927 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 23:35:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N3Y4NX008760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 21:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N3Y30Y015905; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:34:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N3Y00Y015878 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:34:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id ABA71D0F0068; Sat, 22 May 2004 23:33:59 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.115]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 22 May 2004 23:33:59 -0400 Message-ID: <009401c44077$a59c8240$735183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000a01c44069$352530b0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 23:40:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2004 03:33:59.0587 (UTC) FILETIME=[C901BF30:01C44076] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ..."museum curators have a hard time keeping up"...In this area, there are a number of historical houses that fall short of being museums. The director and volunteer staff are holding 'open house' in order to maintain the property because of it's Historical value. Under these circumstances, it is very difficult to maintain true control over the rough script that is available to the guides. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.Thurman" To: Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:56 PM Subject: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate > I've been reading the story of Bice's frustration with ill-informed docents, > and the subsequent debate re: whether claims of deformation by corsetry have > any basis in fact, how to enlighten uninformed museum personnel, etc. Here's > my rough take: > > 1) While I don't think that Victorian undergarments were grossly > disfiguring, threw the wearer off balance, or that ribs were removed to > get/retain the fashionable hourglass (I think Valerie Steele's "The Corset" > debunked most of the more extreme myths), I do think Fran has a point that > corsets worn from childhood onwards are going to have some kind of permanent > (even if not extreme) effect on the shape of the body. In adulthood - who > knows? (Tangential: I remember reading in the Laura Ingalls "Little House" > series that Laura didn't start wearing a corset until 16, and her Ma made > her wear it at night to make up time. She hated it and always took it off. > Does anyone else remember this? I don't have the book in front of me at the > moment). > > 2) There is new research coming out all the time and I'm sure the museum > curators have a hard enough time keeping up, let alone handing the > information down to the docents. > > 3) Definitely send a letter, but a gentle one, not a nasty one. It also irks > me that inaccurate information is being distributed under the guise of > historical information, but yelling and screaming never converted anyone! > Recommend some of the latest research and go back in a couple of years and > see what (if anything) happened. > > 4) The confrontational part of me says - yes, dress up in full Victorian > gear and tour the museum, showing your full balance and lack of crushed > ribcages ;) > > Just my $.02 > > Allison T. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 22 23:57:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N3vnRM008973 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 23:57:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N3tkNX009898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 21:55:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N3th0Y025321; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:55:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N3td0Y025218 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:55:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.183]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4N3tQpQ008968 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 13:55:27 +1000 Message-ID: <003101c44079$6466dda0$b790d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost><40AF868F.2010305@lavoltapress.com> <40AF8DA7.4050401@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Corsetry and changes to the body (was Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth)) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 13:52:31 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually I found an article on the effects corsetry has on the body, it's very pro corsetry (as is the whole site) but it gives you a good idea of exactly what happens in situations of long term tightlacing check it out at http://www.staylace.com/medicaladvice/med_cthb.htm Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 00:01:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N41dRM009001 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 00:01:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N417NX010203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 22:01:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N4150Y027621; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:01:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N4120Y027586 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:01:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04269 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 23:02:42 -0500 Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 23:02:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear In-Reply-To: <40B01C4F.1010209@lavoltapress.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lavolta Press wrote: > So if there were women whose skeletons had been deformed by tight > lacing, that is not what these books were trying to show? Such > deformity might have been sometimes seen, but that is not what was > chosen as an example in these books? I can't speak for Kat, but my understanding is that the body structures that the medical books showed as "normal" examples -- because that's what was commonly seen in the women these doctors examined -- may be what we would call "deformed" today. And it may be that reformers at the time were also calling these examples "deformed," but that doctors did not consider these examples to be deformities, because they didn't have a non-deformed basis of comparison. My experience in writing on medical history is that the doctors who created a lot of the definitions for "normal" in medicine in the 19th and early 20th centuries were basing their assessments on limited populations that were not necessarily representative of all humans. This is something that modern medicine has had to deal with -- the norms that were defined based on white European subgroups don't reflect the reality of a multicultural population. Exactly which subgroups were used for the baseline would depend on what was being studied. I believe Freud based a lot of his initial work on what he heard from upper-class urban German women coming to him for talk therapy. Many initial studies of internal organs, bone structure, growth, etc. were based on cadaver research, done on bodies of paupers who couldn't afford burial (and thus tended to be malnourished or diseased). Disease research has often been based on outbreaks in particular communities, which might reflect a certain race, ethnicity, or class level. Drug studies, until fairly recently, were routinely done on men -- often white men -- without much regard for the fact that many drugs behave differently in women or members of other races. And so on. So things that would have been considered "normal" by the doctors who defined the term would not necessarily be "normal" in a larger sense, or considered "normal" today. If all the women in a typical 19th century urban middle-class practice had used corsets from girlhood and had all experienced some degree of skeletal reshaping, then the doctors treating them would have considered that "normal," and the books would have shown their X-rays for reference on women's body structures without any indication that this was the result of some deforming influence. Kat can confirm whether I understood her point correctly... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 00:18:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N4I9RM009080 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 00:18:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N4HRNX010942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 22:17:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N4HP0Y034330; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:17:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts8.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.166]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N4HM0Y034306 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:17:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.70.4.120]) by simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040523041720.PAFC15930.simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 00:17:20 -0400 Message-ID: <00b501c4407c$e44d2580$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost><40AF868F.2010305@lavoltapress.com><40AF8DA7.4050401@lavoltapress.com> <003101c44079$6466dda0$b790d6cb@ewalpole> Subject: Re: Corsetry and changes to the body (was Re: Weight of underwear (wasRe: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth)) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 00:17:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We really haven't changed the conversation much over the years, these days however the discussion is about underwire bras vs non underwire, sports bras, or no bras at all... Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 00:50:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N4oARM009155 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 00:50:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N4nZNX012235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 22:49:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N4nW0Y047818; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:49:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N4nP0Y047751 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:49:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.130.97]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D33C56E564 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:49:23 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 21:49:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear Message-ID: <40AFCAE4.22137.D5465AB@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <40B01C4F.1010209@lavoltapress.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > So things that would have been considered "normal" by the doctors who > defined the term would not necessarily be "normal" in a larger sense, > or considered "normal" today. If all the women in a typical 19th > century urban middle-class practice had used corsets from girlhood and > had all experienced some degree of skeletal reshaping, then the > doctors treating them would have considered that "normal," and the > books would have shown their X-rays for reference on women's body > structures without any indication that this was the result of some > deforming influence. > > Kat can confirm whether I understood her point correctly... > > -Robin You got it. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 00:51:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N4p2RM009161 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 00:51:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N4oUNX012265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 22:50:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N4oU0Y048215; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:50:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N4nN0Y047745 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:49:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.130.97]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A8B66E58C for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 21:49:22 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 21:49:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear Message-ID: <40AFCAE4.31617.D5467AF@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <40B01C4F.1010209@lavoltapress.com> References: <40AFB6B1.18731.D058048@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I said: > >The medical books I've seen didn't say "oh, this is so wrong." It was > > more like "this is what real people you see in your practice are > >like, so you need to know this is what to expect." > > > >But I want to emphasize that this has nothing to do with "tight > >lacing". This is just everyday normal wear, as opposed to people > >trying to have the smallest waist or other extreme. It was more to > >"keep the back straight" and other things felt to be "healthy." Fran asked: > So if there were women whose skeletons had been deformed by tight > lacing, that is not what these books were trying to show? Such > deformity might have been sometimes seen, but that is not what was > chosen as an example in these books? The lacing doesn't have to be all that tight to cause shaping of the body and changes in the internal structures. As Aubrey pointed out, pregnancy causes shifts of a similar sort (albeit in a different direction.) The books weren't saying "this is what corseted women look like". They were saying "this is what a *woman* looks like" and comparing it to the male anatomy of the same area. Looking back with the knowledge we have now, it is pretty silly to think that this might be considered "normal" but keep in mind that it was considered "normal" to wear a corset. They didn't have a separate drawing to show what an uncorseted woman looked like. And the discussions of the mechanics of breathing were even considered different, even well into the 20th century. This was something they told us about during a discussion of the normal mechanics of breathing when I was in medical school (in the 70s. I don't know if they bother with history much now, but in those days we usually had quite a bit of history as an introduction.) They were discussing the 19th C "research" had impacted our knowledge in the present day. (And emphasizing how our current knowledge may someday be displaced by new methods of research.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 01:18:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N5IJRM009228 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 01:18:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N5GSNX013454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 23:16:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N5GL0Y059175; Sat, 22 May 2004 23:16:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N5GJ0Y059165 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 23:16:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id A02805CC8E7; Sun, 23 May 2004 01:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0195.floodcity.net [198.93.211.195]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1433D5CC7C0 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 01:16:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B0331C.450D8612@floodcity.net> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 01:14:04 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You know, all this talk of deformities and Nomality misses one point, that some women didn't lace tightly, due to the same things we have today. some women would rather be fashionable than healthy, i.e. be able to breathe easily, perform well and be competent, some would rather be healthy than fashionable. there were tomboys back then, even as now, and that woman would have worn her corsets barely tight enough to stay on if that were more comfortable because she didn't CARE about fashion or opinion. I grant you there would have been fewer of them with the courage to do so, but I can't be convinced that rebels didn't exist. today some women will wear stilettos for every day of her adult life and some will wear earth shoes, and there's every other person in between. so I'm sure there WERE examples of Uncompressed bodies. any person who corseted but didn't tightlace would have had a body which was uncompressed, undeformed. It is inconcievable that a working woman for instance could wash clothes or floors with tight lacing. because of these women, it is certain that evidence of proper female anatomy was available for the doctor who wanted to know. and something else is really bugging me. someone stated that just because the bones were deformed and the organs misplaced didn't mean that the person was in pain or unhealthy. that is like saying that the chinese women whose feet were wrapped from babyhood to maintain the tiny foot were not unhealthy just because they couldn't walk, or just because they didn't suffer pain as long as they remained in one place. organs which are missplaced can cause malfunctions, bones which are deformed fail in their function of protecting the organs, or fail in supporting the diaphram, fail in aiding proper breathing, and prevent that person from functioning fully. this does not say that that person had an evident disease, it says that that person was almost certainly hampered in some ways. a woman who cared more for her sillhoette, her tiny waiste or her delicate constitution (some considered it an asset) than comfort would have laced tightly for fashions sake, just as women have bowed before fashion from time immemorial in one way or another. OThers who cared more for comfort or her ability to function fully would have laced no more tightly than she had to to maintain her version of propriety. just as there are fifty differing opinions on that point on this list, there were a thousand back then based on station in life, duties and obligations and degree of vanity and insecurity in the particular woman. surely this is something you can acknowledge in women of other ages and eras just as it is something you can acknowledge in today's world, in this list, and viceversa. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 01:29:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N5T4RM009282 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 01:29:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N5RKNX014024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 May 2004 23:27:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N5RJ0Y063723; Sat, 22 May 2004 23:27:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N5RH0Y063700 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 23:27:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B9171D0A5 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 00:27:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p184.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.186]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C529BD46E for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 00:27:15 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Tailor's Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 00:27:18 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So from what I can understand from this, someone refered to as a tailor in the 12th cent. could have been male or female and then gradually became a reference to a male sewer? De -----Original Message----- >Tailor = male sewer >Seamstress + female sewer OED - Tailor 1. a. ‘One whose business is to make clothes’ (J.); a maker of the outer garments of men, also sometimes those of women, esp. riding-habits, walking costumes, etc. See also MERCHANT-TAILOR. (Although historically the tailor is the cutter, in the trade the ‘tailor’ is the man who sews or makes up what the ‘cutter’ has shaped.) 1297 R. GLOUC. (Rolls) 6391 A robe he let him ssape uerst of blod red scarlet there the ssarpe stones bi the stret is tailors were..the tailors corue so moni peces uor is robe ne ssolde pow3e. OED - Seamstress, Sempstress A woman who seams or sews; a needlewoman whose occupation is plain sewing as distinguished from dress or mantle-making, decorative embroidery, etc. 1644 HOWELL Twelve Treat. (1661) 47 A great masse of money and plate was brought into the Guild-hall, the Semstresse brought in her silver Thimble,..the Cook his Spoons. However, OED Seamster, Sempster One who sews; one whose occupation is sewing, esp. the making and mending of garments; a tailor, seamstress. Originally a designation of a woman, but in OE. already applicable to a man. Now only applied to one of the male sex, seamstress being commonly used for a female sewer. c995 in Kemble Cod. Diplom. VI. 131 Ane crencestræn, and ane semestran. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN Premium! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 02:08:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4N68PRM009387 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 02:08:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N62eNX015406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 00:02:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N62c0Y078178; Sun, 23 May 2004 00:02:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4N62X0Y078155 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 00:02:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A80A21D27A for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 01:02:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p184.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.186]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B324D3F3 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 01:02:32 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 01:02:35 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <40AF8C4D.5000709@lavoltapress.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It is the museum's duty and not the docents to make sure that info spewed out by the docent is up to date and as accurate as possible. It is the docents duty to learn their lines and be as informed as possible and not adlib where knowledge is lacking. If an error has been found it should be brought to the attention of the museum so that they may evaluate and correct the error. As for "details they will soon forget", people do remember. It may be shelved into the back of their memory for a while but something will come up and they may recite the little bit of misinformation that they heard from that docent. I remember years ago that a friend had visited a house museum and there were 1800 shoe hooks (the thingies that pulled the buttons of shoes through the buttonholes) They were labeled as berry pickers and the shpeal was that high class ladies would have berry picking tea parties and would use these hooks to pick the berries so that they would not stain their white gloves. I have other stories of museum misinformation embellishments that I can understand the frustration felt by the original poster. De -----Original Message----- I guess I just don't see where this has happened here. If we were talking _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 08:47:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NClmRM023373 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 08:47:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NCfvNX007381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 06:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NCfi0Y060448; Sun, 23 May 2004 06:41:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NCfg0Y060401 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 06:41:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.89.b9cccf5 (18403) for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 08:41:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <89.b9cccf5.2de1f5ff@aol.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 08:41:35 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/22/04 7:48:10 PM Central Daylight Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: Yes, but here you're judging 19th-century corset wearing by your own experience, which is not necessarily a valid guide. No, I wasn't judging anything. If you could stop putting your own spin onto what other people are saying for a moment, perhaps you would not feel the need to be correcting everyone constantly. I was simply stating what my own personal experience has been. "Is what you "imagine" about 19th-century corset wearing any more valid than what anyone else may "imagine"? Chat is fine, it's just no basis to use to "correct" anyone else with a different opinion." First, I would love it if you could show me *anywhere* that I have *ever* said that my opinion is more or less valid than anyone else's. All I have done here from the get-go is "chat," I have "corrected" no one. I simply expressed a different opinion from yours on the subject of the museum tour guide, and due to that, you seem to have decided to respond to every post I make and correct ME. Personally, I see that as being guilty of the same thing that you are trying to accuse me of, but ::shrug:: ... I'm sure you'll correct me again. In any case, I have absolutely no interest in this kind of pettiness, so I'll be moving forward. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 09:03:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ND3URM023439 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 09:03:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NCw0NX007963 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 06:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NCvx0Y067758; Sun, 23 May 2004 06:57:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NCvu0Y067690 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 06:57:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1a3.24b33bd9 (18403) for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 08:57:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1a3.24b33bd9.2de1f9cc@aol.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 08:57:48 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/23/04 1:05:02 AM Central Daylight Time, otsisto@socket.net writes: As for "details they will soon forget", people do remember. It may be shelved into the back of their memory for a while but something will come up and they may recite the little bit of misinformation that they heard from that docent. I totally agree. I mean, where did the man's misinformation come from in the first place? Probably from something that he heard or read, and decided to add into his tour. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 09:14:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NDEIRM023477 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 09:14:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ND9tNX008600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 07:09:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ND9s0Y073311; Sun, 23 May 2004 07:09:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ND9p0Y073292 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 07:09:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A29E42CE0082; Sun, 23 May 2004 09:09:50 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.118]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sun, 23 May 2004 09:09:50 -0400 Message-ID: <002101c440c8$16b1bb80$765183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE : OT-Proctor family Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 09:15:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2004 13:09:50.0669 (UTC) FILETIME=[3B0E77D0:01C440C7] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Salem has a number of museums and libraries (public and private) as well as a group of historic homes accessible to the visitor. Danvers? But again, library and other holdings of public records. These New England towns have been interested for years in the matter of ancestry and preservation of documents and other material of a historical content. Another source is to research some of the more prominent Names that managed to traverse generations, Like the Lowells (Lowele), Cabot, Wentworth, Adam,Warren, and such. Picked up a book on the Lowells yesterday by Catherine Drinker Bowen that is documented and "chatty". Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:25 PM Subject: [h-cost] RE : OT-Proctor family > > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:17 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House > > Kathleen: > > Does your daughter have an email address and would be willling to share some > info she has found in Danvers? Has she been to Salem and are there any > sources of 17th costume history at either Danvers or Salem? > > I live in Omaha NE and will not be able to get enough time off work to > travel to Danvers any time soon. > > Many thanks! > > Cindy Abel > > Re John Proctor, my daughter who has been doing genealogy found a lot of > interesting stuff in historical documents held by the town of Danvers, Ma. > Good luck, > Kathleen > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 10:33:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NEXwRM023844 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 10:33:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NEOONX011576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 08:24:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NEOG0Y009382; Sun, 23 May 2004 08:24:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.primushost.com (smtp1.primushost.com [209.58.220.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NEOD0Z009305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 08:24:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1BRttV-0000N3-BL; Sun, 23 May 2004 10:24:05 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 1BRttS-0002UM-00; Sun, 23 May 2004 10:24:02 -0400 Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 10:24:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you know anyone that can show up and take a tour in correct late 19th century period dress? Katy On Sat, 22 May 2004, Bice wrote: >I tried that. I really did. I kept saying he's old he doesn't know any >better he's doing the best he can. Then he made a remark about corsets and >reproduction organs and I simply walked out of the room to catch my breath >and temper. There were other appalling faux pas that I'm just disturbed >over. They take classes through this place!! And this area is a very >cliquish sort of place so I doubt I can even get an "in" to even teach a >class. As I said before I'm not in the realm of knowledge of some of ladies >here but at least I know that compared to this guy I'm a freaking genius. >============================= >http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ >http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie >============================= >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Lauren Walker" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 11:00 AM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth > > >> When I was working on a degree in Popular Culture Studies, one of our >> professors (I think the one who was on the board at Williamsburg) just >> repeated over and over again, "Don't listen to docents. They're very nice, >> but they are almost always volunteers with no training, and nothing they >say >> can be counted upon." His favorite example was being told that a >> Federal-period house was built with wide interior doorways to accommodate >> crinolines, which, of course, were not in style for another 30 years. >> >> While I sympathize utterly with your froth, I do find this mantra has >> allowed me to visit more historic houses without committing assault or >> having a heart attack. "They're nice, they mean well, they don't know >> anything. They're nice, they mean well, they don't know anything. They're >> nice, they mean well..." >> >> Lauren >> >> >> > From: "Bice" >> >> > I live in Oswego NY. We have this really great Victorian are home that >is now >> > a museum. I with a friend took the tour. Why am I foaming at the mouth? >> > >> > Well did you know Victorian women wore 11 pounds of underwear? Did you >know >> > they were so off balanced they kept their elbows on the table? Did you >know >> > that they had deformed bodies thanks to corsets? >> > >> > I'm so livid I'm shaking. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 11:49:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NFnYRM024344 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 11:49:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NFicNX015705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 09:44:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NFiE0Y048516; Sun, 23 May 2004 09:44:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NFi30Y048408 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 09:44:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.128.160]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF30382734 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 08:43:59 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 08:43:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear Message-ID: <40B0644C.27134.4584EF@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <40B0331C.450D8612@floodcity.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > You know, all this talk of deformities and Nomality misses one point, > that some women didn't lace tightly, due to the same things we have > today. some women would rather be fashionable than healthy, i.e. be > able to breathe easily, perform well and be competent, some would > rather be healthy than fashionable. there were tomboys back then, > even as now, and that woman would have worn her corsets barely tight > enough to stay on if that were more comfortable because she didn't > CARE about fashion or opinion. I grant you there would have been > fewer of them with the courage to do so, but I can't be convinced that > rebels didn't exist. today some women will wear stilettos for every > day of her adult life and some will wear earth shoes, and there's > every other person in between. so I'm sure there WERE examples of > Uncompressed bodies. any person who corseted but didn't tightlace > would have had a body which was uncompressed, undeformed. It is > inconcievable that a working woman for instance could wash clothes or > floors with tight lacing. > > because of these women, it is certain that evidence of proper female > anatomy was available for the doctor who wanted to know. You are assuming that women would be similar to women today. But that isn't necessarily the case. We do know that women were not always corseted, because we know about the "reformers". But they were considered outside the realm of normal for their time (and often were ostracized as well.) However, even the lower classes were corsetted (although they probably had more problems with it because they often had to "make do" with corsets which were not made for them and so didn't fit as well.) And actually, you can do anything in a corset that you can without a corset (as long as it isn't tight laced like some of the fetishers do.) I think that most women thing that " It is inconcievable that a working woman for instance could wash clothes or floors with tight lacing." because they couldn't do it. But if you've worn a corset for most of your life, you can do a lot more things than a modern woman can conceive. And it really doesn't take "tight lacing" to get changes in the rib cage, as long as it is done since you were fairly young. This is extremely different than what would happen to one of us who laces for just a special weekend. > and something else is really bugging me. someone stated that just > because the bones were deformed and the organs misplaced didn't mean > that the person was in pain or unhealthy. that is like saying that > the chinese women whose feet were wrapped from babyhood to maintain > the tiny foot were not unhealthy just because they couldn't walk, or > just because they didn't suffer pain as long as they remained in one > place. You have just used an *extreme* example. Women who had their feet bound *usually* had major foot problems, even if they just sat still. But it was something that the lower classes didn't do. Wearing corsets isn't like that. Since you can do anything in a corset that you can do out of one and since it was something that the lower class women did too, it's not the same kind of thing at all. Many costumers make the mistake of assuming that just because something is true for their time, that a woman of the past would feel the same way. Unfortunately, that just isn't true. Cultural pressures can change the way a person feels. And until the culture changes, some things that we would find "inconceivable" are definitely more than conceivable. Why do you think it was such a shocking thing in the 60s to "burn the bra"? Cultures were changing and people were trying to break out of those cultural norms. Many women found it "inconceivable" that anyone could go without a bra. People at the time actually thought that it was "unhealthy" to go without a bra. Cooper's droop was something considered "unhealthy" and women without bras would "obviously" get Cooper's droop. In fact, "Cooper's droop" was started as a medical thing. It was felt that the strands of tissue which support the breast (called "Cooper's ligaments") would "abnormally" stretch and cause problems if the breast is not properly supported. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 12:02:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NG2wRM024433 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 12:02:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NG2HNX016766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 10:02:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NG2E0Y057605; Sun, 23 May 2004 10:02:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20724.mail.yahoo.com (web20724.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4NG2C0Y057588 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 10:02:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040523160212.84138.qmail@web20724.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.237.35.84] by web20724.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 23 May 2004 09:02:12 PDT Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 09:02:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <40AFB407.50608@lavoltapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Since the pictures to which I refer could be put into ascii art thus: Natural & good waist: :) happy face at top ) ( uncompressed waist Bad, Evil & Nasty corseted waist: :( frowny face \/ ridiculous compressed waist OK, my drawings aren't exactly to scale; I, too, am exaggerating to show what I think is wrong with them. I think, in the nineteenth century original, that the redrawings are worthless as a source of how women's bodies were actually reshaped by their corsets. Propaganda frequently is unreliable & I believe the original, as well as my ascii caricature, would qualify. Ann in CT --- Lavolta Press wrote: > There is no reason to assume all redrawings are > automatically > incorrect--this is similar to the reenactorism that > "all secondary > sources are incorrect," which professional > historians do not assert by > any means. > > Fran > > >Have you seen the X-rays? > > > >I have seen some dress reformers' redrawings, but > >never the originals they purported to copy. > > > >I'd love a citation. > > > > > >Ann in CT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 12:42:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NGgURM024719 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 12:42:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NGfsNX019019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 10:41:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NGfr0Y078056; Sun, 23 May 2004 10:41:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NGeV0Y077336 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 10:40:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i4NGeShi023815 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 09:40:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.213] (tnt-1-256.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.192]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NGeP8u023803 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 09:40:26 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 09:28:19 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Tailor's Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i4NGeV0Y077336 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:27 AM -0500 5/23/04, otsisto wrote: >So from what I can understand from this, someone refered to as a tailor in >the 12th cent. could have been male or female and then gradually became a >reference to a male sewer? In Gustav Fransson's "Middle-English Surnames of Occupation", under "tailor", two of his examples are for women, although from two centuries after your point of interest: Alic[ia] la Tayllour 1333 Matild[a] Taliour 1329 Note that one difficulty in interpreting occupational surnames is that the entire family of someone in an occupation may bear a surname referring to that occupation. So it can't be ruled out that "Alicia la Tayllour" was so called because she was married to, or the daughter of, "Richard le Tayllour". (This isn't entirely sexist -- the migration of originally feminine terms like baxster and brewster to gender-neutral use probably took the same path, combined with the tendency of occupations to be "family businesses".) Heather >De > >-----Original Message----- > >>Tailor = male sewer >>Seamstress + female sewer > >OED - Tailor >1. a. ‘One whose business is to make clothes’ (J.); a maker of the outer >garments of men, also sometimes those of women, esp. riding-habits, walking >costumes, etc. See also MERCHANT-TAILOR. (Although historically the tailor >is the cutter, in the trade the ‘tailor’ is the man who sews or makes up >what the ‘cutter’ has shaped.) 1297 R. GLOUC. (Rolls) 6391 A robe he let >him ssape uerst of blod red scarlet there the ssarpe stones bi the stret is >tailors were..the tailors corue so moni peces uor is robe ne ssolde pow3e. > >OED - Seamstress, Sempstress >A woman who seams or sews; a needlewoman whose occupation is plain sewing as >distinguished from dress or mantle-making, decorative embroidery, etc. 1644 >HOWELL Twelve Treat. (1661) 47 A great masse of money and plate was brought >into the Guild-hall, the Semstresse brought in her silver Thimble,..the Cook >his Spoons. > >However, > >OED Seamster, Sempster >One who sews; one whose occupation is sewing, esp. the making and mending of >garments; a tailor, seamstress. >Originally a designation of a woman, but in OE. already applicable to a man. >Now only applied to one of the male sex, seamstress being commonly used for >a female sewer. >c995 in Kemble Cod. Diplom. VI. 131 Ane crencestræn, and ane semestran. > >Marc > >_________________________________________________________________ >Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN >Premium! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/ > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 12:42:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NGgrRM024725 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 12:42:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NGelNX018967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 10:40:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NGeb0Y077406; Sun, 23 May 2004 10:40:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NGeV0Y077343 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 10:40:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i4NGeUhi023827 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 09:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.213] (tnt-1-256.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.192]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NGeP8w023803 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 09:40:29 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1a3.24b33bd9.2de1f9cc@aol.com> References: <1a3.24b33bd9.2de1f9cc@aol.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 09:32:58 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 8:57 AM -0400 5/23/04, Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 5/23/04 1:05:02 AM Central Daylight Time, >otsisto@socket.net writes: >As for "details they will soon forget", people do remember. It may be >shelved into the back of their memory for a while but something will come up >and they may recite the little bit of misinformation that they heard from >that docent. > > >I totally agree. I mean, where did the man's misinformation come from in the >first place? Probably from something that he heard or read, and decided to >add into his tour. Keep in mind that it _may_ have come from some helpful museum-attendee who told him historic "facts" with great confidence (or even possibly who berated him for the inaccuracy of his spiel and explained to him "how it really was"). In other words, when correcting a museum docent's information, one needs to keep in mind how easily the same "correction" process can be used to provide inaccurate (or simply debated) information. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 12:48:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NGm8RM024761 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 12:48:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NGlXNX019252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 10:47:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NGlW0Y080829; Sun, 23 May 2004 10:47:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NGlS0Z080792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 10:47:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-103.sonic.net [209.148.112.103]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4NGlQ3L020455 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 09:47:27 -0700 Message-ID: <40B0D6B2.1080201@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 09:52:02 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear References: <40B0331C.450D8612@floodcity.net> In-Reply-To: <40B0331C.450D8612@floodcity.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >You know, all this talk of deformities and Nomality misses one point, >that some women didn't lace tightly, due to the same things we have >today. > I said at least once that there is a difference between corsetry and tight lacing. >today some women will wear stilettos for every day of her adult life and >some will wear earth shoes, and there's every other person in between. > > I have read that most modern American women have feet that are deformed to some extent from what those feet would have looked like if the woman had gone barefoot or worn low sandals all her life. Even if said women have avoided the extremes of fashion, such as high stiletto heels with super-pointed toes. In modern books I've seen revolting (to me) photos of badly deformed and possibly dysfuctional modern feet, things like one toe pushed under another (from wearing overly narrow shoes). While I've never seen a modern person barefoot (or in sandals) who looked this bad, most of the bare female feet I've seen did not look entirely "natural." I'd include my own feet in this category, even though they are perfectly functional and no more deformed than what seems to be the modern average. The Victorian ideal of small feet also led numerous women into wearing shoes that were too small and thereby deformed the foot. >so I'm sure there WERE examples of Uncompressed bodies. any person who >corseted but didn't tightlace would have had a body which was >uncompressed, undeformed. It is inconcievable that a working woman for >instance could wash clothes or floors with tight lacing. > > I myself never said there were NO examples of umcompressed bodies. >someone stated that just >because the bones were deformed and the organs misplaced didn't mean >that the person was in pain or unhealthy. that is like saying that the >chinese women whose feet were wrapped from babyhood to maintain the tiny >foot were not unhealthy just because they couldn't walk, or just because >they didn't suffer pain as long as they remained in one place. > I know I've said that personal modern experience is not an entire guideline, but--for a couple years I had a job that required me to dress in relatively high fashion. While I avoided the most extreme shoes I saw in stores, I did often wear pointy-toed shoes with 2 1/2 in. heels (which for me is high) and which were narrow, though not actual stilettoes. I worked about 50 hours a week at this job (granted, it was a desk job, I was a senior editor for a book publisher, so I didn't stand all day). But I commuted in my work shoes instead of taking the sensible course I saw many other women take--they used running shoes to run for the bus and only put on their fancy shoes at work. I didn't feel like dealing with extra pairs of shoes and anyway, my work shoes didn't bug me. I walked over a mile to the bus stop in them every day. When I left the job for one that required more casual dress I quit wearing my high heels. After a couple years, when I was clearing out my closet, I tried on all those shoes. They were so uncomfortable I couldn't believe I'd worn them for 20 minutes let alone 50 hours a week. I immediately tossed them all into the Goodwill bag. My feet hadn't changed. It's just that when I wore my fancy shoes I believed they were necessary and I was so used to the discomfort I didn't notice it. It's probably just as well for my feet that I quit wearing them. > organs >which are missplaced can cause malfunctions, bones which are deformed >fail in their function of protecting the organs, or fail in supporting >the diaphram, fail in aiding proper breathing, and prevent that person >from functioning fully. this does not say that that person had an >evident disease, it says that that person was almost certainly hampered >in some ways. > Hmm. . . I'm not a doctor by any means. But I suspect malfunctioning bones and organs tend to be bad for the health, at least in the long run. > >just as there are fifty differing opinions on that point on this list, >there were a thousand back then based on station in life, duties and >obligations and degree of vanity and insecurity in the particular >woman. surely this is something you can acknowledge in women of other >ages and eras just as it is something you can acknowledge in today's >world, in this list, and viceversa. > > > I don't think anyone on this list has insisted that all Victorian women either dressed in exactly the same way, or had exactly the same health problems or lack thereof. Fran _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 13:01:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NH1JRM024893 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 13:01:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NH0TNX020149 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 11:00:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NH0Q0Y087564; Sun, 23 May 2004 11:00:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NH0M0Z087509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 11:00:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-103.sonic.net [209.148.112.103]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4NH0Im4003738 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 10:00:19 -0700 Message-ID: <40B0D9B7.9020706@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 10:04:55 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear References: <40B0644C.27134.4584EF@localhost> In-Reply-To: <40B0644C.27134.4584EF@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I tried going brasless (for some months, perhaps a year) in the 1970s when I was in high school, in an urban but relatively conservative area. It not infrequently led males in the street, total strangers, to stare rudely and make lewd comments, even propositions; in short to treat me like an "easy woman." It was like, if I stepped outside what they felt my role should be they were entitled to say anything they wanted, to me and to each other. Note that I have never been large-busted or generally voluptuous, nor did I go in for plunging necklines or other revealing clothes. Many women did not want to put up with such treatment regardless of how uncomfortable they may have found their bras, and even if they were not worried about drooping breasts. Fran >Why do you think it was such a shocking thing in the 60s to "burn the >bra"? Cultures were changing and people were trying to break out of >those cultural norms. Many women found it "inconceivable" that anyone >could go without a bra. People at the time actually thought that it >was "unhealthy" to go without a bra. Cooper's droop was something >considered "unhealthy" and women without bras would "obviously" get >Cooper's droop. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 13:08:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NH80RM024934 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 13:08:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NH7HNX020535 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 11:07:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NH7F0Y091073; Sun, 23 May 2004 11:07:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NH730Y090966 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 11:07:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20i2.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.66] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BRwR6-0000qg-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 23 May 2004 10:06:56 -0700 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20040523090159.02205018@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 09:05:51 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200405221801.i4MI160Z066390@net.indra.com> References: <200405221801.i4MI160Z066390@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 361 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >----------------------------- > >Message: 8 >Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:35:55 -0700 >From: Lavolta Press >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth >To: Historical Costume >Message-ID: <40AF8F7B.5070506@lavoltapress.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >I'd suggest that you write an article or articles on these topics and >have it/them published in a newsletter or magazine, and/or posted on a >website. And let everyone know the information there. That way you can >disseminate what you believe to be correct information without >criticizing anyone. > >As for children, they're probably the ones least likely to retain >factual information as opposed to a hazy impression. > >Fran I would disagree, Fran. Children are precisely the one's most likely to remember any information (correct or incorrect) they are given. I remember what I was like as a child. And my nephews are the same. Years after they have been to a museum or similar venue, they can spout off, often verbatim, what they saw, heard, read and were told. If the subject interests them in the slightest, they'll remember it. And, unfortunately, if its the first bit of information they received on the subject, they'll resist any contrary opinions. Pierre "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 13:11:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NHB0RM024942 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 13:11:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NH99NX020654 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 11:09:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NH990Y092090; Sun, 23 May 2004 11:09:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NH980Z092078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 11:09:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-103.sonic.net [209.148.112.103]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4NH97Pr004763 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 10:09:07 -0700 Message-ID: <40B0DBC7.2010002@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 10:13:43 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear References: <20040523160212.84138.qmail@web20724.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040523160212.84138.qmail@web20724.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What's the difference between evidence presented by a doctor in good faith, to promote health, and propaganda? There is also another question to be asked. Many people on this list do not _want_ to believe that corsets could have, in the past, ever have been bad for the health. Wanting to believe something does not make it either true or untrue. But if you want to believe something, it is important to ask _why_ you want to believe it, and consider how your desire may affect whatever evidence you find. Fran >Propaganda frequently is unreliable & I believe the >original, as well as my ascii caricature, would >qualify. > >Ann in CT > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 13:27:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NHRIRM024985 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 13:27:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NHQXNX021727 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 11:26:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NHQU0Y001184; Sun, 23 May 2004 11:26:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NHQS0Z001167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 11:26:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-103.sonic.net [209.148.112.103]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4NHQQMM007165 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 10:26:27 -0700 Message-ID: <40B0DFD7.6050002@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 10:31:03 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear References: <89.b9cccf5.2de1f5ff@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <89.b9cccf5.2de1f5ff@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have disagreed with your opinions no more often than you have disagreed with mine. I'm sorry if you see any kind of debate as petty or personal. I did not mean it that way. I have nothing against you whatever. Fran >All I have done >here from the get-go is "chat," I have "corrected" no one. I simply expressed >a different opinion from yours on the subject of the museum tour guide, and >due to that, you seem to have decided to respond to every post I make and >correct ME. Personally, I see that as being guilty of the same thing that you are >trying to accuse me of, but ::shrug:: ... I'm sure you'll correct me again. > >In any case, I have absolutely no interest in this kind of pettiness, so I'll >be moving forward. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 13:36:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NHa7RM025015 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 13:36:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NHYHNX022237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 11:34:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NHYG0Y004966; Sun, 23 May 2004 11:34:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NHYF0Y004934 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 11:34:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BRwrT-000BDw-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 23 May 2004 18:34:11 +0100 Message-ID: <95$p4yAv78rAJwfA@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 23:06:39 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tailor's References: <007e01c43f8d$13e6d4d0$ee65c345@39jz301> In-Reply-To: <007e01c43f8d$13e6d4d0$ee65c345@39jz301> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Susan Carroll-Clark wrote >Greetings-- > >> Do you have any evidence of either term being used in the 12th century? >> My dictionary lists "tailor" as "C13", but of course no detail as to >> which end of the 13th century. > >Oh, forgot another reference. I did a survey of personal names in Essex >documents from 1189-1272 a few years ago, and also recorded some of the >personal names. While I don't have the actual source right at hand, the >surname or occupational name "le Taillur/Tayllur/Taylor" does appear during >this period. No clue as to male or female--but the term certainly exists at >this point. The fact that it's used with the masculine "le" may be a >marker, although surnames are in flux at this point, moving from being >occupational bynames to inherited ones. > >Susan > Susan, Is this a source you could dig out? Given that your survey was over nearly a century, and the other reference you had was near the end of that period, it would be interesting to know how early you found the name. (my group only do up to 1215) Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 14:27:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NIRcRM025176 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 14:27:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NIQwNX024909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 12:26:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NIQs0Y030710; Sun, 23 May 2004 12:26:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NIQq0Y030682 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 12:26:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kerowyn@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.74.208.dial1.stlouis1.level3.net ([4.245.74.208] helo=Dan) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BRxgQ-00087m-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 23 May 2004 14:26:51 -0400 Message-ID: <011d01c440f4$20698280$d04af504@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <83.c689f19.2ddf625d@aol.com><1250.198.93.211.56.1085150010.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> <002d01c43fb5$68c52ec0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 13:31:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend of mine made up one of these a few years ago, and yes she did have to do some resizing. I think because these patterns use modern sizing and a for proper fit with a corset you don't want to match the measurements exactly. Snow fallen on snow, and this evening, the full moon of November Basho ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns > Hi, > one more question (for now), for those that have used these patterns what > did you use for boning? are the boning channels straight enough to use flat > steels? or will I need spiral steel? The general consensus seems to be that > they turn out too big, for those that did find them too big did you check > your measurements against the pattern envelope, or did you just go with your > normal size? I just want to check if their printed measurements are off or > whether they are a different size to normal patterns. > Thanks > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole > Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia > ewalpole@austar.net.au > > People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun > is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if > there is light from within. > Elizabeth Kubler-Ross > > The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added > to the ages of other women. > Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 15:34:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NJYLRM025379 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 15:34:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NJWCNX027993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 13:32:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NJW10Y061792; Sun, 23 May 2004 13:32:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f16.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NJW00Y061718 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 13:32:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 23 May 2004 12:31:54 -0700 Received: from 129.244.96.24 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:31:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.24] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:31:54 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2004 19:31:54.0892 (UTC) FILETIME=[9AF54CC0:01C440FC] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Tailor's X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "otsisto" >So from what I can understand from this, someone refered to as a tailor in >the 12th cent. could have been male or female and then gradually became a >reference to a male sewer? I think the quotes in question say nothing about the gender of a tailor. The term "sempster" was originally a woman, which then came to refer to either gender, then only men, with the women taking up the term "semptress" by 1644. Marc > >Tailor = male sewer > >Seamstress + female sewer > >OED - Tailor >1. a. ‘One whose business is to make clothes’ (J.); a maker of the outer >garments of men, also sometimes those of women, esp. riding-habits, walking >costumes, etc. See also MERCHANT-TAILOR. (Although historically the tailor >is the cutter, in the trade the ‘tailor’ is the man who sews or makes up >what the ‘cutter’ has shaped.) 1297 R. GLOUC. (Rolls) 6391 A robe he let >him ssape uerst of blod red scarlet there the ssarpe stones bi the stret is >tailors were..the tailors corue so moni peces uor is robe ne ssolde pow3e. > >OED - Seamstress, Sempstress >A woman who seams or sews; a needlewoman whose occupation is plain sewing >as >distinguished from dress or mantle-making, decorative embroidery, etc. >1644 >HOWELL Twelve Treat. (1661) 47 A great masse of money and plate was brought >into the Guild-hall, the Semstresse brought in her silver Thimble,..the >Cook >his Spoons. > >However, > >OED Seamster, Sempster >One who sews; one whose occupation is sewing, esp. the making and mending >of >garments; a tailor, seamstress. >Originally a designation of a woman, but in OE. already applicable to a >man. >Now only applied to one of the male sex, seamstress being commonly used for >a female sewer. >c995 in Kemble Cod. Diplom. VI. 131 Ane crencestræn, and ane semestran. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 15:39:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NJdDRM025427 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 15:39:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NJbGNX028258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 13:37:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NJbF0Y064162; Sun, 23 May 2004 13:37:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav70.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NJbE0Y064114 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 13:37:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 23 May 2004 12:37:09 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.67 by bay1-dav70.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:37:09 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.67] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000a01c44069$352530b0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> <009401c44077$a59c8240$735183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:33:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2004 19:37:09.0270 (UTC) FILETIME=[56579360:01C440FD] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes a letter is going I just have to pull my thoughts together on the issue. Although I don't feel that I'm really the one qualified for this I may be the only one willing in the area. And yes in full outfit and on the doorstep is a definite possibility. I was 12 when I got my first corset and it's only been in the last two years that I stopped wearing one. (re:my email addy I am also on Stalyace (LISA member too)) Laura was 14 at her first corset. I'm a huge Laura junkie and have done two substantial papers on her including her possible dresses and the lack of male children with her her mother and her daughter Rose and possible blood typing complications for the involved boy babies that died early in life. ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" (Tangential: I remember reading in the Laura Ingalls "Little House" > > series that Laura didn't start wearing a corset until 16, and her Ma made > > her wear it at night to make up time. She hated it and always took it off. > > Does anyone else remember this? I don't have the book in front of me at > the > > moment). > > 3) Definitely send a letter, but a gentle one, not a nasty one. It also > irks > > me that inaccurate information is being distributed under the guise of > > historical information, but yelling and screaming never converted anyone! > > Recommend some of the latest research and go back in a couple of years and > > see what (if anything) happened. > > > > 4) The confrontational part of me says - yes, dress up in full Victorian > > gear and tour the museum, showing your full balance and lack of crushed > > ribcages ;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 16:23:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NKNtRM025592 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 16:23:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NKNNNX000935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 14:23:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NKNL0Y086334; Sun, 23 May 2004 14:23:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tmailb1.svr.pol.co.uk (tmailb1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.168.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NKN90Y086212 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 14:23:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hbgd103@soton.ac.uk) Received: from modem-302.pipeline.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.25.209.46] helo=soton.ac.uk) by tmailb1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1BRzUn-0007Lr-4r for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:22:57 +0100 Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:13:54 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Hilary Davidson To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <89.b9cccf5.2de1f5ff@aol.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Corsetry and changes to the body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is an interesting site concerning a modern woman's use of everyday tight laced corsets at the following link http://www.sylphide.de/estart.htm I wonder what effect this is having on her internal organs, as she even sleeps with a 19" waist. It does show the process of a body becoming accustomed to the lacing, consciously looking at the process in a way that perhaps the Victorians wouldn't have done so explicitly. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 16:29:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NKTQRM025600 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 16:29:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NKSoNX001319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 14:28:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NKSm0Y089054; Sun, 23 May 2004 14:28:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NKSk0Y089023 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 14:28:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA3B81D1FE for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 15:28:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p445.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.191]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5F0D7D409 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 15:28:43 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:28:48 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- Keep in mind that it _may_ have come from some helpful museum-attendee who told him historic "facts" with great confidence (or even possibly who berated him for the inaccuracy of his spiel and explained to him "how it really was"). In other words, when correcting a museum docent's information, one needs to keep in mind how easily the same "correction" process can be used to provide inaccurate (or simply debated) information. Heather -- This is good possibility which is why a person presents their case to the ones in charge not the docent. A letter w/"this is what so and such docent said and here is my documentation to the contrary. The people in charge, they should go over youy docs and choose whether they will integrate the new info or keep as is (their prerogative). Giving the name of the docent will help, in case the docent is ad-libbing or deviating from the script (it may be that only one docent is passing on "possible" misinformation) and the museum heads can correct this if they know the source. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 16:44:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NKiJRM025645 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 16:44:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NKhiNX002723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 14:43:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NKhf0Y096891; Sun, 23 May 2004 14:43:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NKhd0Y096839 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 14:43:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from 39jz301 ([69.195.101.238]) by fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040523204145.ZDZP456352.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 16:41:45 -0400 Message-ID: <002801c44106$9dadd180$ee65c345@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <007e01c43f8d$13e6d4d0$ee65c345@39jz301> <95$p4yAv78rAJwfA@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tailor's Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 16:43:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [69.195.101.238] using ID at Sun, 23 May 2004 16:41:45 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > Is this a source you could dig out? Given that your survey was over > nearly a century, and the other reference you had was near the end of > that period, it would be interesting to know how early you found the > name. (my group only do up to 1215) R.E.G. Kirk, (ed.) _Feet of Fines for Essex_. (Vol. 1) Colchester: Essex Archaeological Society, 1899-/ What the Feet of Fines is is a collection of legal documents regarding land transfers. A "fine" is the record of a land transaction, and they are called "feet" because there were three records made: One on the left-hand side of the document, one on the right, and one at the bottom (the "foot") The bottom one was the one that was kept by the archive; with the other two copies going to the two parties. There are literally hundreds of transactions in the book. The good thing is, if you can get hold of a copy, there is an index by surname in the back, so you should be able to look up the (le) Taillur - type entries for date. As I said, my concern was doing a statistical survey of given names; I only noted the surnames in passing, so I couldn't tell you right off whether a particular name occurred before a particular date. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 18:42:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NMgRRM026191 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 18:42:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NMe3NX010152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 16:40:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NMds0Y052421; Sun, 23 May 2004 16:39:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav64.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NMdr0Y052381 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 16:39:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 23 May 2004 15:39:48 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.72 by bay1-dav64.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:39:48 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.72] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 18:39:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2004 22:39:48.0515 (UTC) FILETIME=[DA8FA730:01C44116] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well yeah I know of at least 4 others besides myself who live in the area who could more than handle it. The problem is getting them to take the offer. ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 10:24 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth > > Do you know anyone that can show up and take a tour in correct > late 19th century period dress? > > Katy > > On Sat, 22 May 2004, Bice wrote: > > >I tried that. I really did. I kept saying he's old he doesn't know any > >better he's doing the best he can. Then he made a remark about corsets and > >reproduction organs and I simply walked out of the room to catch my breath > >and temper. There were other appalling faux pas that I'm just disturbed > >over. They take classes through this place!! And this area is a very > >cliquish sort of place so I doubt I can even get an "in" to even teach a > >class. As I said before I'm not in the realm of knowledge of some of ladies > >here but at least I know that compared to this guy I'm a freaking genius. > >============================= > >http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ > >http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie > >============================= > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Lauren Walker" > >To: "Historical Costume" > >Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 11:00 AM > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth > > > > > >> When I was working on a degree in Popular Culture Studies, one of our > >> professors (I think the one who was on the board at Williamsburg) just > >> repeated over and over again, "Don't listen to docents. They're very nice, > >> but they are almost always volunteers with no training, and nothing they > >say > >> can be counted upon." His favorite example was being told that a > >> Federal-period house was built with wide interior doorways to accommodate > >> crinolines, which, of course, were not in style for another 30 years. > >> > >> While I sympathize utterly with your froth, I do find this mantra has > >> allowed me to visit more historic houses without committing assault or > >> having a heart attack. "They're nice, they mean well, they don't know > >> anything. They're nice, they mean well, they don't know anything. They're > >> nice, they mean well..." > >> > >> Lauren > >> > >> > >> > From: "Bice" > >> > >> > I live in Oswego NY. We have this really great Victorian are home that > >is now > >> > a museum. I with a friend took the tour. Why am I foaming at the mouth? > >> > > >> > Well did you know Victorian women wore 11 pounds of underwear? Did you > >know > >> > they were so off balanced they kept their elbows on the table? Did you > >know > >> > that they had deformed bodies thanks to corsets? > >> > > >> > I'm so livid I'm shaking. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 19:10:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4NN9xRM026295 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:09:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NN83NX011922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 17:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NN800Y064886; Sun, 23 May 2004 17:08:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav52.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4NN7w0Y064833 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 17:07:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 23 May 2004 16:07:52 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.72 by bay1-dav52.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 23 May 2004 23:07:52 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.72] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> <40AEF78C.26900.A1AD733@localhost><40AF868F.2010305@lavoltapress.com> <40AF9BAA.8010201@in-tch.com> <40AFEBBA.69A15734@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] questions grow the more I read Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 19:03:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2004 23:07:52.0843 (UTC) FILETIME=[C67FB5B0:01C4411A] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From lower middle to upper middle (the house I had originally posted about was upper middle) Now if by late you mean 1880's on then it depends. Linen dresses were popular. Calicos for wrappers and house dresses. Or for casual wear. Cottons were worn. Both linen and cottons for underthings. Also silks for the trousseau outfit possibly or even special occasion clothing. Linen wool dresses for Sunday wear. Wools and heavy velvets and bombazine for good dresses also. A few good wool dresses for winter wear. Crinolines tended to be earlier and could be made of horsehair. Hoops could be steel and were less weight then 6 or 7 crinolines. But for the later era esp. the 1880's bustles in the forms of what I fondly refer to as "steel ass traps" the collapsed for sitting. Or a pad stuffed with horsehair or other filling depending on taste. For the dresses of the aesthetic movement (my fav era for dresses even means more to me than SCA timeline clothing) I send you to this page: http://www.fashion-era.com/aesthetics.htm B~ ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty Felton" > To which I ask.... > > so what would be appropriate for an middle/late 19th century costume? > Did the middle class still wear linen, or was it cotton? where did > linsey/woolsy come in, was it over and done with by then? did women > wear it or did only men? > > Would she wear cotton dresses or wool, Linen or silk? > > > and from there I go on to inquire... do I understand your terminology > right? is a crinoline a peticoat with netting attached to it to give > the skirt over it poof? and what era was this crinoline worn? I know > at some point that lots of petticoats gave the shape to the skirts, when > were hoops introduced and where did the crinoline fit in? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 20:40:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O0e4RM026649 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 20:40:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O0aeNX017925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 18:36:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O0aa0Y007110; Sun, 23 May 2004 18:36:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.dandy.net (smtp.dandy.net [66.159.110.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O0aX0Z007068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 18:36:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net ([209.128.242.17]) by smtp.dandy.net for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 23 May 2004 20:39:19 -0400 Message-ID: <40B14342.5020809@dandy.net> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 20:35:14 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate References: <000a01c44069$352530b0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> In-Reply-To: <000a01c44069$352530b0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. I don't know if this has any bearing on this conversation, but I have permanent (I assume, since they are in bone) dents from my temples back to my ears from wearing glasses since I was 6. I wore them all day, and took them off at night, but I still have the dents. I assume that what can happen to my skull can happen to other bones. Of course, this is just conjecture, but I can assure you, the dents in my skull aren't. Cheers, Mike T. > I do think Fran has a point that >corsets worn from childhood onwards are going to have some kind of permanent >(even if not extreme) effect on the shape of the body. In adulthood - who >knows? > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 21:03:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O13ZRM026691 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:03:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O11kNX019294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 19:01:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O11g0Y018930; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:01:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.dandy.net (smtp.dandy.net [66.159.110.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O11f0Z018915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:01:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net ([209.128.242.17]) by smtp.dandy.net for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:04:29 -0400 Message-ID: <40B1492C.5020402@dandy.net> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:00:28 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series References: <20040518182042.48773.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> <200405181633.i4IGXr8N071189@net.indra.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20040518150114.00bb4c08@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040518150114.00bb4c08@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. Bridgette, I would fear that the "Simon Factor" would come into play here (the need for the talentless public to see people belittled), and the need to abuse the more well-informed for the amusement of the audience would leave those of us that do it regularly looking the fools. If done fairly and without malice, it would more or less resemble what I do on weekends which, although it reaches a smaller audience, has some controls in place. We have our own competitions amongst our own, no sense getting the TV folks involved (coming off a day of trying to "inform" a film crew about what we would or wouldn't have done while still trying to keep it interesting for 4th Graders for a museum video). Cheers, Mike T. > I still want to see a series like this with two teams. One comprised > of the average Joe's and the other team all "avid recreational > historians" aka ringers. It would be interesting to see how the two > groups approached problems. > Bridgette > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 21:19:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O1JgRM026731 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:19:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1J8NX020054 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 19:19:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1J60Y026395; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:19:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.dandy.net (smtp.dandy.net [66.159.110.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1J40Z026378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:19:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net ([209.128.242.17]) by smtp.dandy.net for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:21:54 -0400 Message-ID: <40B14D41.6030903@dandy.net> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:17:53 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with hat documentation References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Julie, since you haven't told us what the hat is, we have a hard time with it, but since you seem to be referring to knitting, I can tell you that none of the extant hats that I know of from the period before 1700 AD show any evidence of wire stiffening , IIRC. You might want to try the historic knit list. From my experience, stiffening in a felted hat comes from the denseness of the felting rather than any internal support, and, indeed, it would be difficult to put in the wires, if any existed, either before or after felting had been done. One of the major problems that I have seen in documentation is the process of choosing an idea, then trying to document it. It is far better to look at the evidence, locate the frequency or absence thereof, and begin to create an idea from there. This list is full of lovely examples of the same (look at the most recent posting of chemise drawstrings, for example). Please refrain from doing anything that might jeopardise your hat from getting the credit it deserves. Cheers, Mike T. Julie wrote: >Help > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 21:26:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O1Q0RM026742 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:26:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1O6NX020441 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 19:24:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1O50Y028725; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:24:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.dandy.net (smtp.dandy.net [66.159.110.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1O10Z028692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:24:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net ([209.128.242.17]) by smtp.dandy.net for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:26:50 -0400 Message-ID: <40B14E69.2010305@dandy.net> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:22:49 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. Hi, Ron. The only thing I can say to agree with you is to remind everyone that the title to the first "Harry Potter" movie had to be changed from Philosopher's Stone to Sorcerer's Stone in the US because the folks in the know thought us to be such boobs that the word "Philosopher" might turn us off from reading the book/going to the movie. Now you can see why Europe is disgusted with us on so many levels....Sadly, Mike T. Ron Carnegie wrote: > Actually the Canadian "quest" series does use a knowledgeable cast I >believe are by far the more interesting shows. Would the rest of America >agree I don't know. I know the makers of the American ones would not agree. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 21:46:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O1kBRM026876 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:46:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1iHNX021426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 19:44:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1i80Y037922; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:44:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out005.verizon.net (out005pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.143]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1hu0Y037751 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:44:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([141.152.184.12]) by out005.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040524014356.RBGN1603.out005.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 20:43:56 -0500 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:43:52 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <40B14E69.2010305@dandy.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out005.verizon.net from [141.152.184.12] at Sun, 23 May 2004 20:43:52 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The title of the Movie "The Madness of King George" is a similar story. The play was entitled "The Madness of King George III" but when the movie was being released they were afraid that Americans would think the missed the first two parts! Cheers, Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of michael tartaglio > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 8:23 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series > > > Hi, All. Hi, Ron. The only thing I can say to agree with you is to > remind everyone that the title to the first "Harry Potter" movie had to > be changed from Philosopher's Stone to Sorcerer's Stone in the US > because the folks in the know thought us to be such boobs that the word > "Philosopher" might turn us off from reading the book/going to the > movie. Now you can see why Europe is disgusted with us on so many > levels....Sadly, Mike T. > > Ron Carnegie wrote: > > > Actually the Canadian "quest" series does use a knowledgeable cast I > >believe are by far the more interesting shows. Would the rest of America > >agree I don't know. I know the makers of the American ones > would not agree. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 21:50:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O1nxRM026893 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:49:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1mwNX021673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 19:48:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1mv0Y040121; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:48:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.dandy.net (smtp.dandy.net [66.159.110.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1ms0Z040068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:48:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net ([209.128.242.17]) by smtp.dandy.net for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:51:41 -0400 Message-ID: <40B1543C.1070502@dandy.net> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:47:40 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. It is a shame though that no good came of all of the "prime time" stuff. They could have mentioned that there was a sect of people in the 17th Cent. that were avowed nudists, the "Adamites" and that although homosexuality was the case in one episode, there was a young man at the Jamestown colony that passed as a woman and back again, in this case it is believed that he/she was a hermaphrodite, and the punishments and requirements that were placed on that person gave an idea of how such things might have been handled in the early colonies (I believe that the Anglican Church and the Brownists were of one accord in this area). It is true that this is a case of tittilation and not education, sad to say... Cheers, Mike T. PS, please don't misunderstand me, I don't equate transvestitism and homosexuality, nor do I think of hermaphrodites in the same way. Thanks, MJT >In the few minutes of the show I watched, I saw people skinnydipping, >talking about how they couldn't have "great sex" in colonial days, confiding >their homosexuality, and refusing to wear caps because of "feminism." This >may be typical prime time television fare -- but hey, I watch public >television to get away from typical prime time television fare. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 21:51:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O1pMRM026898 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:51:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1odNX021839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 19:50:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1oc0Y041036; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:50:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m03.lax.untd.com (m03.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4O1oY0Y040898 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:50:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa58@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 9q05Lp5l6pU14shT5B1ERunrhJdrR81ggODuE4bW9vSBViH2crrIXw== Received: (from lisa58@juno.com) by m03.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JWCZ96Y5; Sun, 23 May 2004 18:50:14 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:29:05 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) Message-ID: <20040523.214337.-407941.3.lisa58@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-6 From: Lisa A Ashton X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Dangerous Liaisons" is a great movie, with fabulous costumes and makeup. Other of my favorites to sit and dew to are: the A & E version of "Pride and Prejudice", "Shakespeare in Love", and "Dangerous Beauty"--they are all REALLY romantic. Anything from the Bronte books are great too. Has anyone seen the relatively recent version of "Triumph of Love" with Ben Kingsley? Fantastic, esp. the costumes. Yours in costuming, Lisa A. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 21:52:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O1qRRM026905 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:52:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1pwNX021914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 19:51:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1pw0Y041723; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:51:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m03.lax.untd.com (m03.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4O1oY0Y040897 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:50:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa58@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 9q05Lp5l6pU14shT5B1ERunrhJdrR81gOiVyiVzlqSz0OIPDbBu9kg== Received: (from lisa58@juno.com) by m03.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JWCZ96YZ; Sun, 23 May 2004 18:50:14 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:08:45 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives Message-ID: <20040523.214337.-407941.1.lisa58@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-7,12-13 From: Lisa A Ashton X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try Antonia Fraser's book "The Wives of Henry VIII". There are all the famous portraits (in color), plus other less-famous portraits of them, plus it is about the best book I"ve read on the subject. Fraser is amazing. The recent History channel mini-series about Henry VIII and his wives by that British so-called historian was crap, I don't think they even got the costumes right. They certainly didn't get the hair color right! This is one of my favorite time periods, having just completed a historical reproduction of the dress that Mary Tudor is wearing in her famous wedding portrait with Charles Brandon. I believe that there will at some point be photos up on the Costume-Connections website for CC22 in Atlanta this past April, the Historical MAsquerade. Yours in costuming, Lisa A. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 21:59:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O1xRRM026923 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:59:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1viNX022329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 19:57:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1vh0Y044496; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:57:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.dandy.net (smtp.dandy.net [66.159.110.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1vc0Z044464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:57:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net ([209.128.242.17]) by smtp.dandy.net for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:00:26 -0400 Message-ID: <40B15649.1060909@dandy.net> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:56:25 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. I began perusing a book the other day, can't remember the author's name, but the title was "American Jezibel" and the book was a biography of Anne Hutchinson, originally of Mass Bay and later of Roger William's Rhode Island Colony. If Mrs. Vorhees wants to be a rebel, she should try walking a mile in that woman's latchet shoes. She'd never last a minute! She wants good sex? If conception was considered in the 17th Cent. to indicate that a woman was enjoying her nuptual duties, then Anne had that in spades...she bore over 14 children! All of that, plus losing a lot of her kids as well as her first husband to disease, then travelling to the Colony and putting up with their nonsense there. Jeez, what a bunch of crybabies... Cheers, Mike T. > In the part I saw, the Voorhees woman mused about whether or not >she would have stood up for her convictions back in 1628. The obvious answer >is yes -- and her convictions would have been Puritan, or she wouldn't have >been there. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 22:01:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O216RM026935 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:01:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1x4NX022447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 19:59:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1x40Y045218; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:59:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1vm0Y044536 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:57:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BEAF1D3DF for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 20:57:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p319.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.65]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 002DFD409 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 20:57:46 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 20:57:52 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <40B14342.5020809@dandy.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Children's bones are soft. Children in Tae Kwon-Do classes are not allowed to break boards with their hands due to developing bones. I have indentations in my skull from leaning on the door frames when I had to stand in the corner for punishment. So yes, there may be an effect on children's bone structure. But most young women, to my knowledge of the period was not introduced to a corset until maybe after their first period which would identify them as becoming a woman or boob development. De -----Original Message----- Hi, All. I don't know if this has any bearing on this conversation, but I have permanent (I assume, since they are in bone) dents from my temples back to my ears from wearing glasses since I was 6. I wore them all day, and took them off at night, but I still have the dents. I assume that what can happen to my skull can happen to other bones. Of course, this is just conjecture, but I can assure you, the dents in my skull aren't. Cheers, Mike T. > I do think Fran has a point that >corsets worn from childhood onwards are going to have some kind of permanent >(even if not extreme) effect on the shape of the body. In adulthood - who >knows? > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 22:18:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O2IbRM026965 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:18:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O2I0NX023502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 20:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O2Hw0Y054362; Sun, 23 May 2004 20:17:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O2Ht0Z054333 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 20:17:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-185.sonic.net [209.148.112.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4O2HrTw001173 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:17:54 -0700 Message-ID: <40B15C66.9030106@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 19:22:30 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Costume movies (for stitching to of course) References: <20040523.214337.-407941.3.lisa58@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20040523.214337.-407941.3.lisa58@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Has anyone seen the relatively recent version of "Triumph >of Love" with Ben Kingsley? Fantastic, esp. the costumes. > > Yes, it's great--except for the two scenes where the filmmakers could not resist getting coy and showing modern spectators in metal folding chairs. But there's not enough of that to spoil the film. An even better film set in the 18th century is "The Clandestine Marriage." It's hilarious. Fran _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 22:21:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O2KxRM026972 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:21:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O2JQNX023595 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 20:19:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O2JP0Y055058; Sun, 23 May 2004 20:19:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O2JO0Y054987 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 20:19:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE5B44264A for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:39:02 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40B15CF4.7070503@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:24:52 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] the red dress in 'Van Helsing' X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Speaking of costume flicks, has anyone seen this movie, and what do you think of the red dress from the masque sequence? http://www.outnow.ch/Media/Img/2004/VanHelsing/movie.1/29.jpg http://www.outnow.ch/Media/Img/2004/VanHelsing/movie.1/07.jpg http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0338526/Ss/0338526/2299-K924-20A.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0338526 I'm wondering if it was based on something real, or if it is fantasy. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 22:33:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O2XRRM027002 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:33:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O2WiNX024426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 20:32:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O2Wf0Y061498; Sun, 23 May 2004 20:32:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O2We0Y061480 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 20:32:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kerowyn@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.244.24.210.dial1.stlouis1.level3.net ([4.244.24.210] helo=Dan) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BS5GZ-0002Ji-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:32:39 -0400 Message-ID: <024001c44137$fe37e820$d04af504@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:37:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4O2XRRM027002 Status: RO Showtime just aired the new production, (Patrick Stewart, Glenn Close) tonight. Has anyone else watched it? What's the opinion of the clothing, too hollywood? Or, somewhere in between. Genie Snow fallen on snow, and this evening, the full moon of November Basho _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 22:44:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O2iERM027045 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:44:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O2hfNX025305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 20:43:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O2hc0Y066611; Sun, 23 May 2004 20:43:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O2hT0Y066543 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 20:43:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@grendal.rain.com) Received: from KATHOUSE (unknown [67.136.138.7]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8B736AF41 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:43:28 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 19:43:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate Message-ID: <40B0FEDD.623.2A14C80@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <40B14342.5020809@dandy.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Children's bones are soft. Children in Tae Kwon-Do classes are not > allowed to break boards with their hands due to developing bones. I > have indentations in my skull from leaning on the door frames when I > had to stand in the corner for punishment. So yes, there may be an > effect on children's bone structure. But most young women, to my > knowledge of the period was not introduced to a corset until maybe > after their first period which would identify them as becoming a woman > or boob development. It really depends on the bone being discussed. Even adults will remodel their bones based on pressure. For example, I broke my nose when I was in the 4th grade and it left a definite bump there. However, after I started wearing glasses (at 18 years of age), the way that the glasses rested on my nose remodeled that area where the bones were broken so that the bump completely remodeled. It has to do several factors. Some has to do with cells called osteoclasts and osteoblasts which we all have. They are just faster working in children, which is why a child's broken bone will knit in 3 weeks to the point where a similar break in an adult will take 6 weeks or longer. (And in the very young, it has to do with whether the cartilage has been replaced by bone yet.) And a child's bone is over all a bit softer than an adult. That's why they tend to get what's called "greenstick" breaks (where it bends but doesn't break completely) where an adult will have the relatively more brittle bone shatter instead. Teenagers are still developing their bone structure too. That's why scoliosis braces will work. They help straighten the bones in the spine. And the bodies will change and remodel a lot more than was thought in the past. They used to tell us pediatricians that we didn't need to measure heads past 1 year of age because the head didn't change significantly after that age. Now they are telling us to continue to measure till at least 2 years of age, because the heads will continue to grow more than they used to think they did. Human bodies are very interesting in the way they work. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 22:53:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O2rmRM027072 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:53:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1rFNX022045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 19:53:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1rF0Y042405; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:53:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail9.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail9.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O1p10Y041287 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:51:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@cybergal.com) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) by mail9.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4O1ostU030995 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 01:50:57 GMT Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.51.41]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Sun, 23 May 2004 20:50:39 -0500 From: "A.Thurman" To: Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:50:25 -0400 Message-ID: <004401c44131$7c098c60$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Laura Ingalls (was Victorian Corset Debate) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bice wrote: Laura was 14 at her first corset. I'm a huge Laura junkie and have done two substantial papers on her including her possible dresses and the lack of male children with her her mother and her daughter Rose and possible blood typing complications for the involved boy babies that died early in life. Do you happen to have a copy of the paper you did on her dresses? Even at an early age I was kind of intrigued by her descriptions - like when she and her sister got each other's hair ribbons one Sunday, or her brown poplin dress that she was so proud of when Almanzo first saw it :) Also, I did always wonder about the lack of male children in the family - what do you think the illness was? Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 22:56:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O2uJRM027084 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:56:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O2thNX026085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 20:55:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O2tf0Y072042; Sun, 23 May 2004 20:55:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out009.verizon.net (out009pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.131]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O2tc0Y072004 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 20:55:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp ([4.33.44.216]) by out009.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040524025537.DGX29216.out009.verizon.net@brandyscomp> for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:55:37 -0500 Message-ID: <015f01c4413a$9b64f550$d82c2104@brandyscomp> From: "Brandy Deming" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40B15CF4.7070503@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the red dress in 'Van Helsing' Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 19:55:43 -0700 Organization: Better Times for Small Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out009.verizon.net from [4.33.44.216] at Sun, 23 May 2004 21:55:37 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think it's gorgeous, wonder if its based on a real dress. b ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 7:24 PM Subject: [h-cost] the red dress in 'Van Helsing' > Speaking of costume flicks, has anyone seen this movie, and what do you > think of the red dress from the masque sequence? > > http://www.outnow.ch/Media/Img/2004/VanHelsing/movie.1/29.jpg > > http://www.outnow.ch/Media/Img/2004/VanHelsing/movie.1/07.jpg > > http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0338526/Ss/0338526/2299-K924-20A.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0338526 > > > I'm wondering if it was based on something real, or if it is fantasy. > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 23:01:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O31PRM027108 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 23:01:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O30dNX026411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 21:00:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O30c0Y074303; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:00:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4O30Y0Y074250 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:00:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-3032); Sun, 23 May 2004 19:58:49 -0700 Received: from unknown (66.205.128.60) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Sun, 23 May 2004 19:58:48 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040523195935.01ef4518@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 20:00:26 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] the red dress in 'Van Helsing' In-Reply-To: <40B15CF4.7070503@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-71 ip=66.205.128.60 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:24 PM 5/23/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Speaking of costume flicks, has anyone seen this movie, and what do you >think of the red dress from the masque sequence? > >http://www.outnow.ch/Media/Img/2004/VanHelsing/movie.1/29.jpg > >http://www.outnow.ch/Media/Img/2004/VanHelsing/movie.1/07.jpg > >http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0338526/Ss/0338526/2299-K924-20A.jpg?path=ga >llery&path_key=0338526 > >I'm wondering if it was based on something real, or if it is fantasy. > >Dawn What time period is this supposed to be? Joan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 23:05:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O356RM027117 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 23:05:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O338NX026626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 21:03:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O3360Y075494; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:03:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:k2mkZrwpdicjDAYSuMM88sTzGAlmgnaM@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O3330Y075447 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:03:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from mail.ntw.net (IDENT:BETRIv34v0kdMwB85I66vKfC4r4aZgi7@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i4O32SD27037 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:02:28 -0600 Received: from 129.19.132.43 (SquirrelMail authenticated user sylvia) by mail.ntw.net with HTTP; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:02:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <2471.129.19.132.43.1085367748.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20040523195935.01ef4518@pop.surewest.net> References: <40B15CF4.7070503@reddawn.net> <4.2.2.20040523195935.01ef4518@pop.surewest.net> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:02:28 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] the red dress in 'Van Helsing' From: sylvia@ntw.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Havent seen the movie but the dress looks 1870s or 1880s, doesnt it? Sylrog At 09:24 PM 5/23/2004 -0500, you wrote: >>Speaking of costume flicks, has anyone seen this movie, and what do you >>think of the red dress from the masque sequence? >> >>http://www.outnow.ch/Media/Img/2004/VanHelsing/movie.1/29.jpg >> >>http://www.outnow.ch/Media/Img/2004/VanHelsing/movie.1/07.jpg >> >>http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0338526/Ss/0338526/2299-K924-20A.jpg?path=ga >>llery&path_key=0338526 >> >>I'm wondering if it was based on something real, or if it is fantasy. >> >>Dawn > > > > What time period is this supposed to be? > > Joan > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 23:11:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O3BXRM027138 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 23:11:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O3AuNX027112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 21:10:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O3Au0Y079235; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:10:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts6.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O3As0Y079169 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:10:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.136.70]) by simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040524031045.XZJS19011.simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 23:10:45 -0400 Message-ID: <006f01c4413c$be2a4160$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.2.2.20040523195935.01ef4518@pop.surewest.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the red dress in 'Van Helsing' Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 23:10:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > >I'm wondering if it was based on something real, or if it is fantasy. > > > >Dawn > > > > What time period is this supposed to be? > > Joan > In theory it's the same time period as set in Stokers book Dracula, but this particular movie is based on a Japanese Manga/Anime cartoon. Sheridan (still amused by the gas powered repeating crossbow; my husbands comment upon seeing it was, "but if it's gas powered, why does it still have a bowstring?") :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 23:51:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O3peRM027271 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 23:51:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O3oxNX029401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 21:50:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O3ov0Y098329; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:50:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O3oo0Y098258 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:50:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-93-172.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.172]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4O3m4J8015538 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 20:49:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040523204221.020e1b70@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 20:43:53 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate In-Reply-To: <000a01c44069$352530b0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >4) The confrontational part of me says - yes, dress up in full Victorian >gear and tour the museum, showing your full balance and lack of crushed >ribcages ;) My corseted waist these days is near 40". And I amazed the folks at the Hyde Street Pier living history day by reaching over and touching my toes while wearing mine - a c1901 straight-front. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 23 23:53:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O3r2RM027276 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 23:53:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O3qWNX029505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 21:52:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O3qV0Y099129; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:52:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O3pC0Y098485 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:51:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-93-172.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.172]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4O3m4JA015538 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 20:49:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040523204943.02082280@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 20:52:15 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] the red dress in 'Van Helsing' In-Reply-To: <40B15CF4.7070503@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Speaking of costume flicks, has anyone seen this movie, and what do you >think of the red dress from the masque sequence? > >http://www.outnow.ch/Media/Img/2004/VanHelsing/movie.1/29.jpg > >http://www.outnow.ch/Media/Img/2004/VanHelsing/movie.1/07.jpg > >http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0338526/Ss/0338526/2299-K924-20A.jpg?path=gal >lery&path_key=0338526 > > >I'm wondering if it was based on something real, or if it is fantasy. Dopubtless it's designed to look "old timey", but it looks a lot more like modern corset-bodice dresses than it does like anything historical. My best guess is Steam-Punk 1880s-ish. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 00:17:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O4HERM029479 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 00:17:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O4GdNX000982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 22:16:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O4Ga0Y011416; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:16:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O4GV0Y011307 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:16:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Appin1@aol.com) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.8b.ba71c85 (2168) for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 00:16:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: <8b.ba71c85.2de2d117@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 00:16:23 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6806 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4O4HERM029479 Status: RO At the Mütter Museum in Philadelphia (a medical museum attached to the College of Physicians of Philadelphia), there is a skeleton of a Victorian-era female. The ribs are indeed deformed. While this may be an aberration, nonetheless, it does give some credence to the story of corsets deforming the body. I used the work at the College and have seen the skeleton. Kathleen Norvell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 00:24:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O4O2RM029888 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 00:24:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O4NRNX001323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 22:23:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O4NO0Y014703; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:23:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lycos.com (www1.mail.lycos.com [209.202.220.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4O4NL0Y014577 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:23:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katie_lewis@mailcity.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Mon, 24 May 2004 04:22:57 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 00:22:57 -0400 From: "Katie Lewis" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] nursing garb portrait X-Sender-Ip: 129.219.100.165 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --------- Original Message --------- DATE: Sat, 15 May 2004 12:05:11 From: "Wendy" To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: >Hope this rings some bells. Any other suggestions >would also be welcome. I tend to focus on late 14th->early 15thC French and late 16th-early17thC Dutch, >but I'm flexible. Actually, your regular garb may work just fine. My son is a year old and is now is the process of weaning, so I've been experimenting with nursing garb. I don't know if I have the *right* answers, but this is what I figured out. I should also say that I'm normally a B cup, when nursing I got up to a D and am now a C, what I have to say may not work for larger busted women. I had assumed that I would need something that laced up the front and a chemise with nursing slits. So I made a kirtle based on the gathered kirtle in _The Well Dressed Peasant_ modified to lace up the front, which I wore with a loose gown because my persona is English. This actually worked pretty well, although Thomas was not always happy with the time it took me to unlace the front of my kirtle. Then I made my third kirtle and decided to have the top end *at* the top of my bustline rather than a couple of inches above it, which is what one sees in portraits. I discovered that when wearing this with a high necked chemise with a slit down the front it was actually easier to lift my breast out over the top of the neckline and nurse instead of unlacing the front. A week after I discovered this I stumbled upon a painting by Brueghal titled "The Visit to the Wetnurse" where the wetnurse was doing the same thing. This, I belive is why kirtles of the 15th century do not seem to have visible front lacing, since the relatively low neckline makes it possible to nurse without unlacing the front of the gown. As a total side note, does anyone else think that the servant making the pancakes in Artensen's "The Pancake bakery" looks pregnant? -Katie --- It's horrible! That's me as a vampire? I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay. > >Years ago I came across a couple portaits, Western Europe 15thC-ish, that showed the woman wearing a gown that had laced slits over the breasts to allow for nursing. > >Now that I'm going to be needing a gown that allows for nursing in the near future, I can't find them. > > > >Thanks, Wendy >Happy Spring >(Manitoba just got hit with 40cm of snow, yeah us) > > >_______________________________________________ >No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. >Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ____________________________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 00:37:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O4bIRM029915 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 00:37:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O4akNX001877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 22:36:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O4ai0Y020703; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:36:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from obsidian.spiritone.com (obsidian.spiritone.com [216.99.193.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O4ag0Z020671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:36:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by obsidian.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4O4acsx029197 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 21:36:39 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:42:03 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <4.1.20040523204221.020e1b70@mail.frys.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been watching this debate with an certain interest. I intend to make myself both a Victorian corset and a new Elizabethan to wear to work as well as for events. I managed to really wrench my back during my last business trip (Next time I'll look smilingly at the man in the next seat and ask if he wouldn't feel safer if he put my computer bag into the overhead for me since I nearly dropped it on my last seat mate!). I have found that a Tudor corset with tabs acts beautifully as a back brace! Regina > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 8:44 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate > > > >4) The confrontational part of me says - yes, dress up in full Victorian > >gear and tour the museum, showing your full balance and lack of crushed > >ribcages ;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 00:55:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O4tHRM030184 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 00:55:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O4rPNX002710 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 22:53:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O4rJ0Y027843; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:53:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O4rG0Y027811 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:53:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Appin1@aol.com) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1dd.2253a8d7 (2168) for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 00:53:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: <1dd.2253a8d7.2de2d9b2@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 00:53:06 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6806 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I finally got a chance to watch the first four episodes straight through. Here are a few thoughts. It was interesting to see that the woman who decided that she wouldn't wear a coif was the lay minister's wife! It was also interesting to see that later, when the "governor's" family came back, she had her head covered. And did anyone notice that (as far as the series showed), only Mistress Voohrees was punished for missing Sunday service, while her son and husband (who also was a Council member) were not? As a 17th century reenactor, I had to laugh at the fact that the"governor's" collar kept slipping around and that nobody had the sense to pin it to his shirt collar band. Also, we really don't know whether the lower class women wore stays all the time, if at all. I asked Janet Arnold about that when she gave a presentation on 17th century undergarments, and she said that we just don't know; that there isn't enough evidence or extant examples. Stays were expensive (the only extant 17th century stays are obviously from nobility or upper class women), and since that was the case, would they be worn all the time? If stays were considered "underwear," as they were in the 18th century, shouldn't they be covered? I would consider a woman who went outside without something on over her stays a woman of loose morals in a 17th century context. Didn't the costumers or the people at Plimouth Plantation tell them that when they went for training? I suspect that the reason the straps kept falling off the shoulders was that the stays weren't custom made for the participants, but were gotten "off the rack." Since one set of stays didn't even close in the back, I'd bet that's the case. As far as I know, the women should have pinned their hair up inside the coifs, to keep it clean and out of the food. Since members of the costuming staff referred to the women's main garment as either a "blouse" or "shirt," I'd take anything else they had to say with a sack of salt. They apparently don't know the proper terminology, and they apparently didn't tell the women why they should cover their heads (and pin up their hair). Didn't those guys know how to fish? If they weren't given muskets and taught to hunt game, at least they could have supplemented the diet with fresh fish. I also think someone needed to find out what plants in the forest were edible too. Maybe I've been watching too much Survivor, but what I saw mainly was a lack of common sense and initiative on the part of the "settlers." Off the soapbox now. Kathleen Norvell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 00:59:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O4x8RM030262 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 00:59:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O4wRNX002898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 22:58:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O4wQ0Y029911; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:58:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O4wM0Y029861 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:58:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Appin1@aol.com) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.149.2a14d7e1 (2168) for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 00:58:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: <149.2a14d7e1.2de2dae4@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 00:58:12 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] the red dress in 'Van Helsing' To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6806 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Since the movie shows the EIffel Tower as being half built, and the dates of construction were between January 26, 1887 to March 31, 1889, presumably the story takes place around 1888. Since none of the other costumes in the film had anything to do with historical accuracy, and were pretty cringe-inducing, I'd bet the farm that the red dress didn't either. It looks like a Vera Wang interpretation. Kathleen Norvell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 01:24:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O5OKRM030857 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 01:24:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O5NeNX003947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 23:23:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O5NZ0Y040912; Sun, 23 May 2004 23:23:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav67.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.202]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O5NX0Y040874 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 23:23:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:23:28 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.99 by bay1-dav67.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 24 May 2004 05:23:27 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.99] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004401c44131$7c098c60$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Laura Ingalls (was Victorian Corset Debate) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 01:23:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 May 2004 05:23:28.0066 (UTC) FILETIME=[3E89DA20:01C4414F] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4O5OKRM030857 Status: RO I'll see if I can find the paper. It was written for school (college) about 12 (when I was about 19) years back and I know I saved my more important papers someplace. I chalked up to a possible blood typing problem in the case of Laura and Rose and in the case of Freddy simply "failure to thrive" because of "Ma's" illness at the same time. Also Almanzo had diphtheria and then a stroke which in those days could have shut off any future relations he and Laura might have had in efforts to produce more offspring. You can find some images of Laura and her family at: http://www.liwms.com/ this is the site of Laura Ingalls Wilder memorial society and imho the best site out there for images.) Also although I find his theories slightly off center the book Ghost in the Little House by William Holtz has some interesting theories and stories. As for clothing because Laura married in 1885 in the west I had to make some theories of my own when coming up with clothing. Believe it or not DeSmet at this time was fairly fashionable and while fashion was slow to reach the area I don't feel there were too many delays. Godey's Lady's book was in circulation and the town had a tailor a dressmaker and a milliner.I did hunt the web to find some examples that would be acceptable to my thoughts on her clothing. The black dress she married in could have looked very close to the one seen here: http://www.truenorth.net.au/userdir/adira/1885photob.JPG With no insets and a plainer collar. Laura also wore a bustle. She didn't care for a large one and in the book she tapes the straps in the front which would have given the gown only a slight bustle in the back. The dress shown here has the smaller bustle but a very unfashionable skirt. http://www.truenorth.net.au/userdir/adira/1883photoa.jpg Laura in fact had a polonaise dress which I feel could have been similar to the pattern by past patterns. Seen here: http://www.longago.com/P904.jpg she was very proud of the polonaise and was pleased she looked so pretty in it. (remember that sensation as a teen yourself?) I have an inkling that the brown poplin was along these lines. The pink sprigged dress was most likely a plain skirt and bodice as she called it her "work dress" B~ ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.Thurman" To: Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 9:50 PM Subject: [h-cost] Laura Ingalls (was Victorian Corset Debate) > Bice wrote: > > Laura was 14 at her first corset. I'm a huge Laura junkie and have done two > substantial papers on her including her possible dresses and the lack of > male children with her her mother and her daughter Rose and possible blood > typing complications for the involved boy babies that died early in life. > > Do you happen to have a copy of the paper you did on her dresses? Even at an > early age I was kind of intrigued by her descriptions - like when she and > her sister got each other's hair ribbons one Sunday, or her brown poplin > dress that she was so proud of when Almanzo first saw it :) > > Also, I did always wonder about the lack of male children in the family - > what do you think the illness was? > > Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 01:27:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O5RSRM030967 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 01:27:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O5QoNX004083 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 23:26:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O5Qo0Y042142; Sun, 23 May 2004 23:26:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav66.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O5Qm0Y042093 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 23:26:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:26:43 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.99 by bay1-dav66.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 24 May 2004 05:26:42 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.99] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.1.20040523204221.020e1b70@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 01:26:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 May 2004 05:26:43.0091 (UTC) FILETIME=[B2C84E30:01C4414F] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *G* I'm with you. My corsetted (not tight-laced that's different measurements) is 40" as well. I can bend jump up and down etc. Also see a book called The Happy Valley The Elegant Eighties in Upstate NY by Pauline Dakin Taft by Syracuse University Press for women in bustles playing tennis and jumping over the net!! ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate > >4) The confrontational part of me says - yes, dress up in full Victorian > >gear and tour the museum, showing your full balance and lack of crushed > >ribcages ;) > > My corseted waist these days is near 40". And I amazed the folks at the > Hyde Street Pier living history day by reaching over and touching my toes > while wearing mine - a c1901 straight-front. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 01:41:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O5fdRM031526 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 01:41:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O5f1NX004652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 23 May 2004 23:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O5f00Y047816; Sun, 23 May 2004 23:41:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O5ex0Y047802 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 23:40:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-93-172.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.172]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4O5eBtj011944 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:40:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040523223538.025d3940@mail.frys.com> Message-Id: <4.1.20040523223538.025d3940@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 22:36:14 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate In-Reply-To: <8b.ba71c85.2de2d117@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i4O5ex0Y047802 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >At the Mütter Museum in Philadelphia (a medical museum attached to the >College of Physicians of Philadelphia), there is a skeleton of a Victorian-era >female. The ribs are indeed deformed. While this may be an aberration, >nonetheless, >it does give some credence to the story of corsets deforming the body. I used >the work at the College and have seen the skeleton. And shoes from the 1950s deformed the feet. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 03:05:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O75ARM027174 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 03:05:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O74LNX009103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 01:04:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O74F0Y084964; Mon, 24 May 2004 01:04:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O74D0Y084923 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 01:04:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Rampant_Peacock@comcast.net) Received: from molly (c-67-170-26-145.client.comcast.net[67.170.26.145]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004052407040801400g2l5ie>; Mon, 24 May 2004 07:04:08 +0000 From: "Molly Boone" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 00:04:08 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm with both of you I love a well fitted Elizabethan corset. Being a larger than DD bust, a corset or a good bodice are the only things that give my shoulders a break from bra straps and my lower back a break from the counterbalance stress. Corseted my waist is somewhere between 30 and 35 inches depending on my current weight. I try not to take my waist down more than about 4 inches simply for comfort. At 4 inches I can still sing, dance, breathe deeply, bend and move comfortably. In fact a lot of things are easier for me to do because my chest isn't getting in the way. I've made 1 civil war era corset that well I had problems with but will be redone (made it to big) and had similar happiness with it. Now I will admit I don't wear one as often as I use to and I'm always careful about lacing. The only time I've ever had a problem was when I was rushed into it. Typical knee in the back and yank on the strings tightening that compressed the waist but nothing else and I about passed out. I give private classes to clients who order them from me anyone who wants to know how now because I never want that done to me or to anyone else again. Molly -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Bice Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 10:27 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate *G* I'm with you. My corsetted (not tight-laced that's different measurements) is 40" as well. I can bend jump up and down etc. Also see a book called The Happy Valley The Elegant Eighties in Upstate NY by Pauline Dakin Taft by Syracuse University Press for women in bustles playing tennis and jumping over the net!! ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate > >4) The confrontational part of me says - yes, dress up in full Victorian > >gear and tour the museum, showing your full balance and lack of crushed > >ribcages ;) > > My corseted waist these days is near 40". And I amazed the folks at the > Hyde Street Pier living history day by reaching over and touching my toes > while wearing mine - a c1901 straight-front. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 03:45:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4O7jQRM027560 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 03:45:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O7irNX010609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 01:44:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O7iq0Y001774; Mon, 24 May 2004 01:44:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (thunder.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4O7io0Y001699 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 01:44:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (dialup-a2-501.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.249.247]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 596D542504 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 17:44:38 +1000 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:47:22 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <000f01c43ed6$5c6590a0$b090d6cb@ewalpole> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>>>>store has a 3 for the price of 1 deal on Simplicity patterns so I thought I'd buy the civil war underwear patterns but I'm not sure which corset pattern to take as one of my free patterns, there's 2 different styles, Niether. Both are rubbish. Spend your money on ice cream (Aldi's Havana Lane creamy chocolate), -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 06:49:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OAnhRM032322 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 06:49:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OAkoNX019028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 04:46:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OAkf0Y074694; Mon, 24 May 2004 04:46:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OAkY0Y074547 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 04:46:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i4OAkFT13225.; Mon, 24 May 2004 11:46:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 24 May 2004 11:46:15 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:46:01 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crinoline, was Questions grow the more I read Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm no Victorian expert, but since no-one seems to have answered this... A crinoline was a stiffened petticoat worn in the mid-19th century to give the skirts a dome shape without the need for multiple layers. I believe they were originally stiffened with horsehair ("crin" in French) but later used hoops. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> basyefelton@floodcity.net 23/05/2004 01:09:30 >>> wrote: and from there I go on to inquire... do I understand your terminology right? is a crinoline a peticoat with netting attached to it to give the skirt over it poof? and what era was this crinoline worn? I know at some point that lots of petticoats gave the shape to the skirts, when were hoops introduced and where did the crinoline fit in? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 07:30:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OBUGRM001007 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 07:30:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OBTeNX021534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 05:29:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OBTc0Y093805; Mon, 24 May 2004 05:29:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail5.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail5.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OBTa0Y093789 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 05:29:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@cybergal.com) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) by mail5.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4OBTZGb010781 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 11:29:35 GMT Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.51.41]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Mon, 24 May 2004 06:29:34 -0500 From: "A.Thurman" To: Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 07:29:29 -0400 Message-ID: <004c01c44182$617618e0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Van Helsing red dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know that the original Dracula novel was first published around 1888, but I think it's safe to say that all of the costumes in this film give only a passing nod to historical accuracy! Having said this, they look GREAT, and I'm of half a mind to make some of Kate Beckinsale's costumes one of these days! I didn't know the movie was based on manga - what's the name of the original series? Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 08:16:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OCGcRM002545 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 08:16:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OCDONX024212 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 06:13:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OCDL0Y013180; Mon, 24 May 2004 06:13:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OCDJ0Y013147 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 06:13:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id BE4535CC982; Mon, 24 May 2004 08:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (webmail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.62]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E7FA45CC8B0 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 08:13:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 198.93.212.86 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Mon, 24 May 2004 08:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3157.198.93.212.86.1085400795.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crinoline, was Questions grow the more I read From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.212.86 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok, thanks, that helps a bit. it wasn't just starched then, it had something sewn in. was it ALL horsehair or did it have bands like the hoops? or was it just one row at the bottom? My granddaughter loves the bell shaped skirts in her costume, she's 8. she keeps twirling and doing a quick curtsy to make her skirt bell and wants me to make her something to make her skirts bell out all the time, I guess she feels that is pretty, or just feels feminine in it when it is big, it's hard for an 8 year old to recognize just what it is they like about something. LOL I don't think I want to do hoops for her, it sounds like it would be to awkward for sitting down in church, but both she and her 4 year old sister are wanting something extra. Kitty > I'm no Victorian expert, but since no-one seems to have answered this... > A crinoline was a stiffened petticoat worn in the mid-19th century to > give the skirts a dome shape without the need for multiple layers. I > believe they were originally stiffened with horsehair ("crin" in French) > but later used hoops. > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > >>>> basyefelton@floodcity.net 23/05/2004 01:09:30 >>> > wrote: > and from there I go on to inquire... do I understand your terminology > right? is a crinoline a peticoat with netting attached to it to give > the skirt over it poof? and what era was this crinoline worn? I know > at some point that lots of petticoats gave the shape to the skirts, when > were hoops introduced and where did the crinoline fit in? > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 08:45:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OCjbRM003695 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 08:45:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OCj5NX026132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 06:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OCj30Y027180; Mon, 24 May 2004 06:45:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from thrednedlestrete.com (mail02.enterhost.com [69.93.13.234]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OCix0Y027097 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 06:45:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 07:44:53 -0500 Message-Id: <200405240744.AA149422192@thrednedlestrete.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Drawstring chemise X-Mailer: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A nice image of a ribbon used to hold a chemise together can be found at http://www.artformgallery.com/images2/vecchio/03_fl.jpg It's Palma Vecchio's Flora 1480-1528 Lisa - always a day late and a dollar short on these conversations it seems......oh well ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "otsisto" Reply-To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:32:40 -0500 >The bow which is a double loop and not a singular is not going into a casing >though it could be perceived as doing so. The loop is caught up in the >ruffle and gap/seam opening. >This is not an example of drawstring chemise. > >There are portraits that show several ties on a camicia. These ties have >been surmised as how the camicia was adjusted instead of a draw-string. >There is a portrait that I can't find right now that have the ties between >all of the panels. Usually, the camicia is made of 7" wide linen panels. > >De > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 09:50:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ODo5RM003974 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 09:50:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ODnUNX000860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 07:49:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ODnL0Y060112; Mon, 24 May 2004 07:49:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ODnI0Y060063 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 07:49:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14366 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 08:51:04 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:51:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Exhibit catalog from NYC X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I posted last fall about an exhibit this spring in NYC; here's the associated catalog: Janet Coxe-Reanick, Splendors of the Renaissance: Princely Attire in Italy: Reconstructions of Historic Costumes from King Studio, Italy by Fausto Fornisari (KIng Stuidio Editions, 2004). Caveat: A friend of mine saw the exhibit and had "concerns" about how the reconstructions were made. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 10:00:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OE0pRM004077 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 10:00:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ODvRNX001419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 07:57:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ODvO0Y064552; Mon, 24 May 2004 07:57:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ODvL0Y064469 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 07:57:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.c0.d7dd147 (4222) for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 09:57:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:57:12 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] the red dress in 'Van Helsing' To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/23/04 9:21:08 PM Central Daylight Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: Speaking of costume flicks, has anyone seen this movie, and what do you think of the red dress from the masque sequence? I was extremely disappointed by the costuming in this movie. There were so many opportunities to do really gorgeous things, and it seems they went the bizarre, Halloween-costume route every time. Dracula's wives could have been done up in some spectacular garb, but their outfits ran from utterly forgettable to just plain ugly. Kate Beckinsale's character basically wore the exact same outfit through the whole movie (black leather-like bondage corset complete with buckles, Elizabethan-era embroidered chemise, men's pirate pants, and a bolero jacket which would have been 35 years out of style at the time) ... you'd think someone from a prominent family could afford a daily change of clothing. Of course, I also thought her acting in this particular film held all the depth and interest of watching a particularly untalented sixth grader read the phone book, so perhaps the mono-costumic thing was appropriate. And the ballgown - blech. Hated the orange-y red color, hated the modern cut and design, hated the feathers sticking up on the shoulders, hated the way the rhinestone applique made it look like they got bored after putting the first one on and decided not to finish it. The entire masquerade ball scene was horrid to me. Perhaps this is more a fault of the directing than the costumer, but it is a visual assault of color and texture that resembles an exploding crayon factory. The eye is so splintered not knowing what on earth to look at, that you end up trying to look at everything and seeing absolutely nothing. If you think of ballroom scenes in other films ("GWTW," Kenneth Branaugh's "Hamlet," "Age of Innocence"), it IS possible to do a scene in a crowded ballroom where the blend of color, light and costuming is harmonious and pleasing to the eye; and you can even look directly at a costume or two as they float by, and grin in appreciation. But this film reminded me of the ballroom scene in "Man in the Iron Mask" ... I just wanted to close my eyes until it was over. I'm not an anime fan by any means, so perhaps there's just rules to anime that I am not aware of, such as having main characters in the same, recognizeable outfit from start to finish. However, it seems to me that if you're going to make a big budget Hollywood production, it might not be a bad idea to bend a few of the anime rules to actually turn out a really good movie. And I feel that there are ways that they could have given the Anna character an outfit that she could kick butt in, but make it at least *remotely* resemble the time period of the movie itself in silhouette, fabrics and cut, if not appropriateness. I don't know, maybe the costumer was trying to demonstrate how the family had spanned all these centuries. It didn't work. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 10:04:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OE4kRM004094 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 10:04:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OE3XNX001907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 08:03:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OE3W0Y068327; Mon, 24 May 2004 08:03:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14004.mail.yahoo.com (web14004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4OE3U0Y068298 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 08:03:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040524140329.34999.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.2.27.21] by web14004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:03:29 BST Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:03:29 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Costume Trivia (Amy) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <40AEA7B6.7060805@caltel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Pedro Alvarez de Toledo was the father of Eleonora de Toledo, whose dresses we all love so well. --- Amy wrote: > Uh.... Zorro? > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 10:37:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OEbSRM004441 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 10:37:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OEadNX005497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 08:36:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OEaZ0Y090258; Mon, 24 May 2004 08:36:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OEaV0Y090167 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 08:36:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from archaeosoft1 (c-24-16-245-183.client.comcast.net[24.16.245.183]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004052414362401200fh1hpe>; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:36:24 +0000 Message-ID: <003b01c4419c$7eb96780$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> From: "Gia" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200405240744.AA149422192@thrednedlestrete.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Drawstring chemise Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 07:36:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dont' worry about beeing 'late'. The picture link you provided is the best and clearest I've seen for that image. Thank you for posting it! Emer \ Gia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:44 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Drawstring chemise > A nice image of a ribbon used to hold a chemise together can be found at http://www.artformgallery.com/images2/vecchio/03_fl.jpg > > It's Palma Vecchio's Flora 1480-1528 > > Lisa - always a day late and a dollar short on these conversations it seems......oh well > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 10:47:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OEllRM004720 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 10:47:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OEkxNX006929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 08:46:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OEkv0Y003784; Mon, 24 May 2004 08:46:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4OEkp0Y003696 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 08:46:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from unicorn@surewest.net) Received: (s3-2894); Mon, 24 May 2004 07:44:41 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO Cyhiraeth) (69.4.130.33) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Mon, 24 May 2004 07:44:40 -0700 Message-ID: <005a01c4419d$e13b0930$0a00a8c0@Cyhiraeth> From: "Joan Broneske" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] the red dress in 'Van Helsing' Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 07:46:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-71 ip=69.4.130.33 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't seen the movie yet, but intend to. I was under the impression that it was mainly "fantasy", loosely based on the traditional "monsters" of Dracula, Frankenstein and the Wolfman, that it combined "cliche" aspects from those types of movies. Perhaps it isn't set in any real "specific" time period, but just kind of a "generic" time period. Her dress appears "around" 1880, but the Dracula character wears something that almost resembles 18th century. I don't think there is supposed to be any real consistancy to time period. His crossbow looks very Jules Verne-like to me, and her main outfit looks like a some sort of post-modern, Slavic-ethnic, pirate punk ;-) . /' // . // |\//7 /' " \ . . . | ( \ '._ | '._ ' '. ' / \'-'_---. ) ) . :.' | \ | . . . . ' . | | | \^ /_-': / / | | '\ .' / /| | \\ | \ \( ) // / \ | | // / L! ! // / Joan Broneske [_] L[_| unicorn@surewest.net "You always can tell who has the real power, when you know who you cannot offend" S.A.M. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:57 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] the red dress in 'Van Helsing' > In a message dated 5/23/04 9:21:08 PM Central Daylight Time, dawn@reddawn.net > writes: > Speaking of costume flicks, has anyone seen this movie, and what do you > think of the red dress from the masque sequence? > > > I was extremely disappointed by the costuming in this movie. There were so > many opportunities to do really gorgeous things, and it seems they went the > bizarre, Halloween-costume route every time. Dracula's wives could have been > done up in some spectacular garb, but their outfits ran from utterly forgettable > to just plain ugly. > > Kate Beckinsale's character basically wore the exact same outfit through the > whole movie (black leather-like bondage corset complete with buckles, > Elizabethan-era embroidered chemise, men's pirate pants, and a bolero jacket which > would have been 35 years out of style at the time) ... you'd think someone from a > prominent family could afford a daily change of clothing. Of course, I also > thought her acting in this particular film held all the depth and interest of > watching a particularly untalented sixth grader read the phone book, so > perhaps the mono-costumic thing was appropriate. > > And the ballgown - blech. Hated the orange-y red color, hated the modern cut > and design, hated the feathers sticking up on the shoulders, hated the way > the rhinestone applique made it look like they got bored after putting the first > one on and decided not to finish it. > > The entire masquerade ball scene was horrid to me. Perhaps this is more a > fault of the directing than the costumer, but it is a visual assault of color > and texture that resembles an exploding crayon factory. The eye is so > splintered not knowing what on earth to look at, that you end up trying to look at > everything and seeing absolutely nothing. > > If you think of ballroom scenes in other films ("GWTW," Kenneth Branaugh's > "Hamlet," "Age of Innocence"), it IS possible to do a scene in a crowded > ballroom where the blend of color, light and costuming is harmonious and pleasing to > the eye; and you can even look directly at a costume or two as they float by, > and grin in appreciation. But this film reminded me of the ballroom scene in > "Man in the Iron Mask" ... I just wanted to close my eyes until it was over. > > I'm not an anime fan by any means, so perhaps there's just rules to anime > that I am not aware of, such as having main characters in the same, recognizeable > outfit from start to finish. However, it seems to me that if you're going to > make a big budget Hollywood production, it might not be a bad idea to bend a > few of the anime rules to actually turn out a really good movie. And I feel > that there are ways that they could have given the Anna character an outfit > that she could kick butt in, but make it at least *remotely* resemble the time > period of the movie itself in silhouette, fabrics and cut, if not > appropriateness. I don't know, maybe the costumer was trying to demonstrate how the family > had spanned all these centuries. It didn't work. > > -Tiffany > Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. > ******************************* > Reflections*of*Worth > http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 10:57:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OEuxRM004759 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 10:56:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OEuCNX007917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 08:56:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OEuA0Y012688; Mon, 24 May 2004 08:56:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OEtx0Y012554 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 08:56:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.169] (pm5-169.eos.net [205.133.149.169]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OEtruT010903 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 10:55:53 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:54:42 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200405240125.i4O1PQ0Z029487@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: philosopher's stone X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mike T wrote: > Hi, All. Hi, Ron. The only thing I can say to agree with you is to > remind everyone that the title to the first "Harry Potter" movie had to > be changed from Philosopher's Stone to Sorcerer's Stone in the US > because the folks in the know thought us to be such boobs that the word > "Philosopher" might turn us off from reading the book/going to the > movie. Now you can see why Europe is disgusted with us on so many > levels....Sadly, Mike T. Yes, but . . . the question should be whether or not the folks at Scholastic (who changed the title of the book, long before there was a movie) were correct. By the time the movie came on the scene, the book had sold millions of copies with that title, so there's no real reason to have reverted to the original (largely unknown in the US) title. In earlier books, editors changed a lot of "Britishisms" to "Americanisms," and of course made the infamous title change. But the fifth book retained most British slang because (according to the article I read) so many Americans were buying Canadian and British copies to get the "real thing." I think based on this evidence, and the thousands if not millions of buyers it's based on, the original decision against "philosopher's stone" was incorrect. After all, it was simply based on a guess. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 11:10:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OFA3RM005443 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 11:10:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OF6aNX009205 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 09:06:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OF6W0Y021529; Mon, 24 May 2004 09:06:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4OF6U0Y021481 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 09:06:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 21442 invoked from network); 24 May 2004 15:06:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 24 May 2004 15:06:38 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Mon, 24 May 2004 08:06:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1073.24.4.69.40.1085411187.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <024001c44137$fe37e820$d04af504@Dan> References: <024001c44137$fe37e820$d04af504@Dan> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:06:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Showtime just aired the new production, (Patrick Stewart, Glenn Close) > tonight. Has anyone else watched it? What's the opinion of the clothing, > too hollywood? Or, somewhere in between. > Yeah, I wanted to watch it and I don't get Showtime! Grrrrr..... I would have to say, though, that Patrick Stewart and Glenn Close sound like pretty good replacements for Peter O'Toole and Katherine Hepburn. Diana Habra www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 11:13:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OFDIRM005448 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 11:13:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OFB4NX009784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 09:11:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OFB40Y024976; Mon, 24 May 2004 09:11:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OFB10Y024896 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 09:11:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from archaeosoft1 (c-24-16-245-183.client.comcast.net[24.16.245.183]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004052415105501200fla7le>; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:10:55 +0000 Message-ID: <005001c441a1$5197a7d0$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> From: "Gia" To: "Historical Costume" References: <024001c44137$fe37e820$d04af504@Dan> <1073.24.4.69.40.1085411187.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:10:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, goodness yes! Patrick Stewart is one of my *favorite* actors. He's *so* versatile an actor (and handsome, too). I remember the episode where Q transport them all to the sherwood forest and they are all in fun costumes. Of course, *they* weren't too happy *LOL*! Emer \ Gia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter > > > Showtime just aired the new production, (Patrick Stewart, Glenn Close) > > tonight. Has anyone else watched it? What's the opinion of the clothing, > > too hollywood? Or, somewhere in between. > > > > Yeah, I wanted to watch it and I don't get Showtime! Grrrrr..... > > I would have to say, though, that Patrick Stewart and Glenn Close sound > like pretty good replacements for Peter O'Toole and Katherine Hepburn. > > Diana Habra > www.RenaissanceFabrics.net > "Everything for the Costumer" > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 11:19:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OFJqRM005492 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 11:19:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OFHsNX010430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 09:17:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OFHK0Y029661; Mon, 24 May 2004 09:17:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net (starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OFHF0Y029601 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 09:17:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.57.8.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.57.8] helo=HELENPINTO) by starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BSHCN-0000i4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 24 May 2004 08:17:13 -0700 Message-ID: <012901c441a2$29f3fde0$08399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.1.20040523223538.025d3940@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate AND SHOES Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:05:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef87cc802f677dec428e13b0fb2408922a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO CarolynKayta wrote: > And shoes from the 1950s deformed the feet. My mother's feet came to points from wearing spike heels that jammed her toes into the points; so did the feet of all my other female relatives. The big toe was sort of curled under the next one on one side and the three little toes did the same thing on the other. I am still grateful (although not at the time) that she managed to somehow find size 9 maryjanes and other ugly (not fashionable) shoes for me to wear; my toes go straight across. On the other hand, I only get to buy fashion shoes in the odd years (like the last two) when broader toes are in style. I prefer Tevas, trainers, and "sensible" shoes, but when I have to, I've got this one pair of low-heeled black pumps that have gotten occasional use for nearly twenty years. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 11:32:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OFW3RM005577 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 11:32:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OFTqNX011761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 09:29:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OFTp0Y039399; Mon, 24 May 2004 09:29:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out014.verizon.net (out014pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OFTe0Y039251 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 09:29:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp ([4.33.44.216]) by out014.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040524152939.MBVN5247.out014.verizon.net@brandyscomp> for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 10:29:39 -0500 Message-ID: <01ce01c441a3$f36e8e00$d82c2104@brandyscomp> From: "Brandy Deming" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: philosopher's stone Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:29:48 -0700 Organization: Better Times for Small Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out014.verizon.net from [4.33.44.216] at Mon, 24 May 2004 10:29:39 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another reason may be Israel Regardes (? spelling) metaphysics book called the Philosopher's Stone. They may have wanted to separate Harry Potter as much as possible from the metaphysical community. Or we could all just be stupid Americans, who knows. B ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 7:54 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: philosopher's stone > Mike T wrote: > > > Hi, All. Hi, Ron. The only thing I can say to agree with you is to > > remind everyone that the title to the first "Harry Potter" movie had to > > be changed from Philosopher's Stone to Sorcerer's Stone in the US > > because the folks in the know thought us to be such boobs that the word > > "Philosopher" might turn us off from reading the book/going to the > > movie. Now you can see why Europe is disgusted with us on so many > > levels....Sadly, Mike T. > > Yes, but . . . the question should be whether or not the folks at Scholastic > (who changed the title of the book, long before there was a movie) were > correct. By the time the movie came on the scene, the book had sold millions > of copies with that title, so there's no real reason to have reverted to the > original (largely unknown in the US) title. > > In earlier books, editors changed a lot of "Britishisms" to "Americanisms," > and of course made the infamous title change. But the fifth book retained > most British slang because (according to the article I read) so many > Americans were buying Canadian and British copies to get the "real thing." > > I think based on this evidence, and the thousands if not millions of buyers > it's based on, the original decision against "philosopher's stone" was > incorrect. After all, it was simply based on a guess. > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 11:57:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OFvvRM005766 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 11:57:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OFtqNX015025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 09:55:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OFtn0Y061287; Mon, 24 May 2004 09:55:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80502.mail.yahoo.com (web80502.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4OFrX0Y059063 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 09:53:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040524155323.33408.qmail@web80502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.104.228.236] by web80502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 24 May 2004 08:53:23 PDT Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:53:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: foaming at the mouth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ahh, docents...can't live with the little dears, but you really can't live without the little dears. 8-D I've worked with docents for a number of years, and ran training programs for docents, and I'm still amazed by some of the information they sometimes give forth. One of the funniest was when I was on a house tour and listened to a very earnest young docent describe the upstairs bathing room of a mid-19th century mansion as a tiny room for the maid. I waited until I had a chance to speak with her privately and asked her where she had gotten her information, and her answer was, "Oh, in training they told us it was a bath room (meaning a bathing room), but it couldn't be because it doesn't have a toilet in it." I spent a couple of minutes explaining how bodily functions and ablutions were taken care of in the 19th century, and the look on her face was worth the trouble--it was priceless! ;-) Normally, I try to avoid the guided house tours (unless I can prevail upon the manager or a senior person to let me look in areas not open to the public). By the by, many of the smaller restoration projects and museums would not be able to function without the efforts of unpaid volunteers, who seem willing to take on any task from handling correspondence to stripping wallpaper and scrubbing floors, to leading tours. My hat's off to them, in spite of their sometimes "interesting" history. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 12:42:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OGg0RM005964 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 12:42:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OGe7NX020874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 10:40:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OGe20Y099567; Mon, 24 May 2004 10:40:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OGdr0Y099378 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 10:39:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.d9.b4ca51f (16633) for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 12:39:44 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:39:44 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/24/2004 11:08:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, dch@inreach.com writes: > I would have to say, though, that Patrick Stewart and Glenn Close sound > like pretty good replacements for Peter O'Toole and Katherine Hepburn. > > I hate "Lion in Winter"...regardless of who's in it. What a stupid dated play. ZZZZZZ.... There....I said it! :-P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 12:44:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OGiQRM005991 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 12:44:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OGhVNX021393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 10:43:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OGhC0Y002473; Mon, 24 May 2004 10:43:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OGeb0Y000154 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 10:40:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.13.2c7aa424 (16633) for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 12:40:19 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <13.2c7aa424.2de37f73@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:40:19 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/24/2004 11:12:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, gia_gavino@comcast.net writes: > Oh, goodness yes! Patrick Stewart is one of my *favorite* actors Now this I can agree with. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 13:20:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OHKTRM006195 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:20:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OHHENX025836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 11:17:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OHHA0Y031790; Mon, 24 May 2004 11:17:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts12.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OHH60Y031649 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 11:17:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.136.200]) by simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040524171659.COCJ15788.simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:16:59 -0400 Message-ID: <002301c441b2$ed1866c0$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004c01c44182$617618e0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Van Helsing red dress Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:16:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.Thurman" To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 7:29 AM Subject: [h-cost] Van Helsing red dress > I know that the original Dracula novel was first published around 1888, but > I think it's safe to say that all of the costumes in this film give only a > passing nod to historical accuracy! Having said this, they look GREAT, and > I'm of half a mind to make some of Kate Beckinsale's costumes one of these > days! > > I didn't know the movie was based on manga - what's the name of the original > series? > > Allison T. Van Helsing :-) I recently found a copy on DVD at my local video store. Which means it should be pretty easy to find where you are, the selection out here is terrible. I do know I have seen bits of the show before, in the 80's. I should go back and pick it up, the price was pretty reasonable, and I havent had my Japanimation fix this month yet... Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 13:33:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OHXoRM006302 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:33:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OHRqNX027001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 11:27:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OHQl0Y039533; Mon, 24 May 2004 11:26:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50404.mail.yahoo.com (web50404.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4OHP60Y038165 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 11:25:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040524172459.56672.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.123.52.19] by web50404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 24 May 2004 10:24:59 PDT Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:24:59 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <13.2c7aa424.2de37f73@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Patrick Stweart could read the dictionary to me---and no matter how good OR bad his costumning--I would be an *esctaticly* happy woman:) Albra AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 5/24/2004 11:12:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, gia_gavino@comcast.net writes: > Oh, goodness yes! Patrick Stewart is one of my *favorite* actors Now this I can agree with. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 13:44:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OHimRM006359 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:44:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OHhqNX029019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 11:43:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OHhn0Y054036; Mon, 24 May 2004 11:43:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.43.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OHhj0Y053892 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 11:43:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 24 May 2004 10:43:39 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.222 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 24 May 2004 17:43:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.222] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:43:39 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 May 2004 17:43:39.0324 (UTC) FILETIME=[A5B607C0:01C441B6] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Troy - I have an idea. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've noticed that I haven't seen much said so far about "Troy" - probably for the obvious reason that this list deals with historical costuming, and most of what was on there was, um, not. Would it be possible to try to discuss it and look at the things that were done correctly? As I told my wife, it's not the Illiad, but it was nice to see how much of the Illiad they actually managed to stick in there :) For example, with the combat, I was delighted by the fact that the fight choreographer had obviously spent some time looking at the vase paintings :) With the armor --it's pretty clear that while the armor was inspired by histoprical armor forms from Greece (it should be noted that putting the folks in the Trojan War into kit modeled on classical greek forms is pretty much the same as sticking Arthurian folks into Plate armor - it makes sense from the standpoint of telling the myth, but probably doesn't reflect what might have actually been worn. OTOH, since I don't think that Arthur or Troy are more than myths layered over god knows what, dressing them in the "correct" clothes is pretty anachronistic too :) ) . However from those classical forms, they sort of wandered off into what looks cool. Even so, I think the armor looked pretty nifty - lots of attention to detail. Now (and didn't you know it was coming) the footwear. All things considered, based on what I saw on screen, I was pretty happy with it. Admittedly we have zero (0) examples of Grecian era footwear, but we have lots of pictures and statues. Which means that we have some theories about how they were done. From what I could see of the shoes and boots, it looks to me like the costumers actually took those into consideration (and of course then wandered off into what-looks-cool land, but don't think I'm being critical there :) ). Very nicely done, all in all. As for the rest of the costuming... It did an excellent and interesting job of describing the various characters with visual suggestions (for example, making Agamemnon look like an oriental potentate) All in all, I had a good time with it. Marc _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 14:13:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OIDgRM006475 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:13:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OI8vNX001812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 12:08:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OI8p0Y073906; Mon, 24 May 2004 12:08:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from myway.com (nn7.excitenetwork.com [207.159.120.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OI7s0Y073071 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 12:07:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emmajean@myway.com) Received: by mprdmxin.myway.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 30A1E3A4B; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:07:43 -0400 (EDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Received: from [142.161.156.105] by mprdmailfe1.nwk.myway.com via HTTP; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:07:43 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 58fcc30e0c8a70c69ac35e06eb7eb749 From: "Wendy" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: emmajean@myway.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="MYWAYBOUNDARY_000__1aee0d8d3bf891f03b5c167c78ddb927"; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20040524180743.30A1E3A4B@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:07:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] thanks re: nursing portraits X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --MYWAYBOUNDARY_000__1aee0d8d3bf891f03b5c167c78ddb927 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Unfortunately I couldn't find the image on the Swedish Museum site, but I was able to webcrawl for nursing madonnas and I found some great images. One I found was a beautiful example of what Katie suggested. Unfortunately there was no information on the image. Thanks, Now I need time to make the dress. Wendy www.hecate.ca/emma/ "It (the Eiffel Tower) looked very different from the Statue of Liberty, but what did that matter? What was the good of having the statue without the liberty?" Josephine Baker _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com --MYWAYBOUNDARY_000__1aee0d8d3bf891f03b5c167c78ddb927 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --MYWAYBOUNDARY_000__1aee0d8d3bf891f03b5c167c78ddb927-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 14:16:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OIG5RM006482 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:16:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OIDxNX002460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 12:14:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OIDu0Y077997; Mon, 24 May 2004 12:13:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OIDr0Y077882 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 12:13:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from archaeosoft1 (c-24-16-245-183.client.comcast.net[24.16.245.183]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004052418134701400g9bkne>; Mon, 24 May 2004 18:13:47 +0000 Message-ID: <009b01c441ba$ddf91e70$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> From: "Gia" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040524172459.56672.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:13:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Especially on some pillows on in front of a nice fire, a couple of bottles of champagne and our favorite foods at our elbows... (off day dreaming...) Emer \ Gia ----- Original Message ----- From: "KATHRYN WOLTERS" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:24 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter > Patrick Stweart could read the dictionary to me---and no matter how good OR bad his costumning--I would be an *esctaticly* happy woman:) > Albra > > AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/24/2004 11:12:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, > gia_gavino@comcast.net writes: > > > Oh, goodness yes! Patrick Stewart is one of my *favorite* actors > > Now this I can agree with. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 14:33:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OIXhRM006579 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:33:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OIWiNX004565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 12:32:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OIWN0Y093511; Mon, 24 May 2004 12:32:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts12.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OIWC0Y093309 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 12:32:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.136.200]) by simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040524183203.DETQ15788.simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:32:03 -0400 Message-ID: <004a01c441bd$64df59c0$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005a01c4419d$e13b0930$0a00a8c0@Cyhiraeth> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the red dress in 'Van Helsing' Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:31:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Broneske" Subject: Re: [h-cost] the red dress in 'Van Helsing' > I haven't seen the movie yet, but intend to. I was under the impression > that it was mainly "fantasy", loosely based on the traditional "monsters" of > Dracula, Frankenstein and the Wolfman, that it combined "cliche" aspects > from those types of movies. Perhaps it isn't set in any real "specific" > time period, but just kind of a "generic" time period. Her dress appears > "around" 1880, but the Dracula character wears something that almost > resembles 18th century. I don't think there is supposed to be any real > consistancy to time period. > > His crossbow looks very Jules Verne-like to me, and her main outfit looks > like a some sort of post-modern, Slavic-ethnic, pirate punk ;-) > I have to say I loved her embroidered shirts (there really were only two) but I have always been into 'hippie' chic. :-) Go on a cheap night or a half-price matinee, and leave your brain at the door. We went not expecting a brilliant challenging movie, we went looking for cheezy goodness, and we had a good time. :-) I am however a fan of B movies, so can apprecciate a bad movie, provided it entertains me. This one did. I suspect the actors did this movie merely to help them fund their lifestyle. 'Hmm, the significant other wants a new pool, and I would like a new car... sure I'll do this show!' After all, its an action movie based on Japanese Manga based on a series of monster movies based on a variety of books. How good could it be? :-) Sheridan PS: nice to see the actors from LOTR are still getting work. (Faramir, is that you?) ;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 14:38:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OIcqRM006617 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:38:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OIbnNX005279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 12:37:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OIbl0Y098267; Mon, 24 May 2004 12:37:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.83.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OIb50Y097634 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 12:37:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EE5A4842C for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:37:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 06151-08 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:36:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 913F248435 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <064901c441be$02c1bf20$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040524172459.56672.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> <009b01c441ba$ddf91e70$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:36:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I personally think James Earl Jones has the most beautiful speaking voice I have ever heard.. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gia" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter > Especially on some pillows on in front of a nice fire, a couple of bottles > of champagne and our favorite foods at our elbows... (off day dreaming...) > > Emer \ Gia > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "KATHRYN WOLTERS" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:24 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter > > > > Patrick Stweart could read the dictionary to me---and no matter how good > OR bad his costumning--I would be an *esctaticly* happy woman:) > > Albra > > > > AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/24/2004 11:12:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > gia_gavino@comcast.net writes: > > > > > Oh, goodness yes! Patrick Stewart is one of my *favorite* actors > > > > Now this I can agree with. > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 14:40:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OIevRM006629 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:40:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OIe0NX005502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 12:40:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OIdx0Y000255; Mon, 24 May 2004 12:39:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50705.mail.yahoo.com (web50705.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4OIdY0Y099768 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 12:39:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20040524183927.76560.qmail@web50705.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.49.146.76] by web50705.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:39:27 EDT Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:39:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405240312.i4O3CK0Y079913@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:the red dress in 'Van Helsing' X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I could only get one of the links to work, but from what I could see, yeah, this could be based roughly on something real (well, as real as the fashion plates of Harper's Bazar can be). _Victorian Fashions & Costumes from Harper's Bazar:1867-1898_ Page 189, figure 'h' - "embroidered surah dress" or, even possibly the dress on the front page, which is defined as an Evening Toilette. Granted, a scaled down variety in terms of its' detailing and the missing undergarments, but I can see a paralell. I think the term "Modern Interpretation" can be applied here. Kathy Subject: [h-cost] the red dress in 'Van Helsing' Speaking of costume flicks, has anyone seen this movie, and what do you think of the red dress from the masque sequence? http://www.outnow.ch/Media/Img/2004/VanHelsing/movie.1/29.jpg http://www.outnow.ch/Media/Img/2004/VanHelsing/movie.1/07.jpg http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0338526/Ss/0338526/2299-K924-20A.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0338526 I'm wondering if it was based on something real, or if it is fantasy. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 14:42:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OIgIRM006640 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:42:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OIfWNX005638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 12:41:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OIfW0Y001579; Mon, 24 May 2004 12:41:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41312.mail.yahoo.com (web41312.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4OIfU0Y001490 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 12:41:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aureliarufinia@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040524184124.69647.qmail@web41312.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [38.232.116.38] by web41312.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 24 May 2004 11:41:24 PDT Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:41:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Aurelia Rufinia To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405241802.i4OI2R0a068523@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Troy - I have an idea. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, the womens' costumes *were* better that _Gladiator_. That doesn't take a lot, really. I'm extemely certain that the ocstume designer used Thomas Hope's _Costumes of the Greeks and Romans_, whihc means he actually did use a source. The promotional stuff also says that he made museum guards nervous getting too close to bas-reliefs and the like. It wasn't great, but they got the _feel_ of ANcient Greece, sort of. There were a number of glaring errors, but I promised the person I watch _Troy_ with that I would not get snarky *during* the movie. Aurelia >> I've noticed that I haven't seen much said so far about "Troy" - probably for the obvious reason that this list deals with historical costuming, and most of what was on there was, um, not. Would it be possible to try to discuss it and look at the things that were done correctly? As I told my wife, it's not the Illiad, but it was nice to see how much of the Illiad they actually managed to stick in there :) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 15:27:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OJRdRM007033 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:27:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OJR8NX010534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 13:27:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OJQ40Y036978; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:26:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80512.mail.yahoo.com (web80512.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4OJPu0Y036853 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:25:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040524192550.1507.qmail@web80512.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.104.228.236] by web80512.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 24 May 2004 12:25:49 PDT Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:25:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405241533.i4OFXZ0Z042292@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Lion in Winter X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Diana wrote: > > Yeah, I wanted to watch it and I don't get > Showtime! Grrrrr..... > > > > I would have to say, though, that Patrick Stewart > and Glenn Close sound > > like pretty good replacements for Peter O'Toole > and Katherine Hepburn. I haven't seen it either (we have HBO), but I did see a couple of stills in yesterday's papers and Glenn Close looked splendid--same regal bearing as Kate Hepburn. My guess is Showtime will make it available on DVD shortly. Perhaps I'm simply emerging from under the mountain of papers, but "Girl with a Pearl Earring" has been released on DVD and is available at Costco (definitely the place to buy DVDs cheap). Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 15:30:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OJU1RM007043 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:30:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OJT2NX010838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 13:29:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OJT00Y039492; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:29:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OJQb0Y037273 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:26:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.15c.355e2f4f (4459) for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:26:25 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <15c.355e2f4f.2de3a661@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:26:25 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/24/2004 2:39:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, goofy1@suscom.net writes: > I personally think James Earl Jones has the most beautiful speaking voice I > have ever heard.. > Indeed. And in the female dept..... Remember Joan Greenwood? ["Kind Hearts and Coronets", "Little Dorrit"] What a voice! How about Tammy Grimes? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 15:32:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OJWhRM007065 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:32:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OJW2NX011268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 13:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OJW00Y042016; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:32:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OJUY0Y040778 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:30:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BSL9a-000Nnd-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 24 May 2004 20:30:30 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:29:24 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tailor's References: <007e01c43f8d$13e6d4d0$ee65c345@39jz301> <95$p4yAv78rAJwfA@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> <002801c44106$9dadd180$ee65c345@39jz301> In-Reply-To: <002801c44106$9dadd180$ee65c345@39jz301> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the reference, anyway. Jean Susan Carroll-Clark wrote >Greetings-- > >> Is this a source you could dig out? Given that your survey was over >> nearly a century, and the other reference you had was near the end of >> that period, it would be interesting to know how early you found the >> name. (my group only do up to 1215) > >R.E.G. Kirk, (ed.) _Feet of Fines for Essex_. (Vol. 1) Colchester: Essex >Archaeological Society, 1899-/ > >What the Feet of Fines is is a collection of legal documents regarding land >transfers. A "fine" is the record of a land transaction, and they are >called "feet" because there were three records made: One on the left-hand >side of the document, one on the right, and one at the bottom (the "foot") >The bottom one was the one that was kept by the archive; with the other two >copies going to the two parties. There are literally hundreds of >transactions in the book. The good thing is, if you can get hold of a copy, >there is an index by surname in the back, so you should be able to look up >the (le) Taillur - type entries for date. As I said, my concern was doing a >statistical survey of given names; I only noted the surnames in passing, so >I couldn't tell you right off whether a particular name occurred before a >particular date. > >Susan > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 15:33:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OJXERM007070 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:33:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OJVJNX011136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 13:31:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OJVH0Y041433; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:31:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OJSw0Y039391 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:28:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.145.2a644797 (4459) for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:28:49 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <145.2a644797.2de3a6ef@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:28:47 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Troy - I have an idea. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/24/2004 2:42:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, aureliarufinia@yahoo.com writes: > I'm extemely certain that the ocstume designer used > Thomas Hope's _Costumes of the Greeks and Romans_, > whihc means he actually did use a source. The > promotional stuff also says that he made museum guards > nervous getting too close to bas-reliefs and the like. > That's Bob Ringwood. I like his stuff. He did the Batman Movies, David Lynch's "Dune", and is the art director for "The Draughtsman's Contract". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 15:36:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OJaVRM007088 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:36:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OJZgNX011756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 13:35:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OJZf0Y045036; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:35:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OJWK0Y042280 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:32:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BSLBK-000O5J-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 24 May 2004 20:32:18 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:32:15 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Tailor's References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The suffix "-ster" always indicated a woman - brewer/brewster, weaver/webster etc. I guess that distinction died out and people forgot it, and then added the "-ess" bit again to indicate female - like those places called "hill-hill-hill" in three different languages. Jean Marc Carlson wrote >>From: "otsisto" >>So from what I can understand from this, someone refered to as a tailor in >>the 12th cent. could have been male or female and then gradually became a >>reference to a male sewer? > >I think the quotes in question say nothing about the gender of a tailor. > >The term "sempster" was originally a woman, which then came to refer to >either gender, then only men, with the women taking up the term >"semptress" by 1644. > >Marc > >> >Tailor = male sewer >> >Seamstress + female sewer >> >>OED - Tailor >>1. a. ‘One whose business is to make clothes’ (J.); a maker of the outer >>garments of men, also sometimes those of women, esp. riding-habits, walking >>costumes, etc. See also MERCHANT-TAILOR. (Although historically the tailor >>is the cutter, in the trade the ‘tailor’ is the man who sews or makes up >>what the ‘cutter’ has shaped.) 1297 R. GLOUC. (Rolls) 6391 A robe he let >>him ssape uerst of blod red scarlet there the ssarpe stones bi the stret is >>tailors were..the tailors corue so moni peces uor is robe ne ssolde pow3e. >> >>OED - Seamstress, Sempstress >>A woman who seams or sews; a needlewoman whose occupation is plain >>sewing as >>distinguished from dress or mantle-making, decorative embroidery, etc. >>1644 >>HOWELL Twelve Treat. (1661) 47 A great masse of money and plate was brought >>into the Guild-hall, the Semstresse brought in her silver >>Thimble,..the Cook >>his Spoons. >> >>However, >> >>OED Seamster, Sempster >>One who sews; one whose occupation is sewing, esp. the making and >>mending of >>garments; a tailor, seamstress. >>Originally a designation of a woman, but in OE. already applicable to >>a man. >>Now only applied to one of the male sex, seamstress being commonly used for >>a female sewer. >>c995 in Kemble Cod. Diplom. VI. 131 Ane crencestræn, and ane semestran. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today >- it's FREE! >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 15:42:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OJggRM007121 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:42:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OJg0NX012534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 13:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OJfx0Y051362; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:41:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OJfh0Z051121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:41:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4OJfJ2x031061 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:41:19 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B24FF1.1000506@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:41:37 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Lion in Winter References: <20040524192550.1507.qmail@web80512.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040524192550.1507.qmail@web80512.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO After a bit of searching, I finally found an in-costume photo online: http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/owlive/img/may04/close0523_big.jpg IMDB doesn't have photos yet, and most of the other places I checked only had the movie title/art/poster. -- Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 16:11:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OKBLRM007293 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 16:11:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OK8RNX015259 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 14:08:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OK820Y072389; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:08:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.connectnet.com (cn7.connectnet.com [207.110.3.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4OK7x0Y072335 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:07:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@cts.com) Received: (qmail 22176 invoked from network); 24 May 2004 20:07:55 -0000 Received: from cts-san216120004237.cts.com (HELO Julie) (216.120.4.237) by cn7.connectnet.com with SMTP; 24 May 2004 20:07:55 -0000 From: "Julie" To: Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:08:13 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <200405241533.i4OFXZ0a042292@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Van Helsing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have to agree with most of what you say about the costumes from this film. The one exception I have is the "Elizabethan-era embroidered chemise". This was a blouse in a style with embroidery patterns typical of the Transylvania area. In fact there is an exporter there currently who carries blouses just like it. It was called Carpathia or something similar. I stumbled over them looking for more authentic garb. Julie > >Kate Beckinsale's character basically wore the exact same outfit >through the >whole movie (black leather-like bondage corset complete with buckles, >Elizabethan-era embroidered chemise, men's pirate pants, and a >bolero jacket which >would have been 35 years out of style at the time) ... you'd think >someone from a >prominent family could afford a daily change of clothing. Of >course, I also >thought her acting in this particular film held all the depth and >interest of >watching a particularly untalented sixth grader read the phone book, so >perhaps the mono-costumic thing was appropriate. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 16:11:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OKBbRM007298 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 16:11:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OKAwNX015516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 14:10:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OKAv0Y074837; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:10:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50407.mail.yahoo.com (web50407.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4OK8Q0Y072592 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:08:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040524200805.21967.qmail@web50407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.123.52.19] by web50407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:08:05 PDT Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:08:05 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <064901c441be$02c1bf20$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, he would be a close decond to Patrick for me---BOTH sexy voiced men , as far as I'm concerned:) Albra (dreaming of having them BOTH to read to me in front of that nice cozy fire---*sigh*) Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: I personally think James Earl Jones has the most beautiful speaking voice I have ever heard.. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gia" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter > Especially on some pillows on in front of a nice fire, a couple of bottles > of champagne and our favorite foods at our elbows... (off day dreaming...) > > Emer \ Gia > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "KATHRYN WOLTERS" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:24 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter > > > > Patrick Stweart could read the dictionary to me---and no matter how good > OR bad his costumning--I would be an *esctaticly* happy woman:) > > Albra > > > > AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/24/2004 11:12:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > gia_gavino@comcast.net writes: > > > > > Oh, goodness yes! Patrick Stewart is one of my *favorite* actors > > > > Now this I can agree with. > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 16:30:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OKUsRM007441 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 16:30:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OKTjNX017565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 14:29:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OKTg0Y090069; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:29:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxv2.wvu.edu (mxv2.wvu.edu [157.182.140.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OKTU0Y089820 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:29:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from khoover@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu (wvugw01.wvu.edu [157.182.215.110]) by mxv2.wvu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OKTNDU022655 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 16:29:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from khoover@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 24 May 2004 16:29:23 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:28:51 -0400 From: "Kathy Hoover" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Van Helsing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julie, Do you remember the address of the site with the blouse with Carpatian embroidery? I just Froogled it and came up empty. Thanks, Kathy Hoover >>> jtknits@cts.com 5/24/2004 4:08:13 PM >>> I have to agree with most of what you say about the costumes from this film. The one exception I have is the "Elizabethan-era embroidered chemise". This was a blouse in a style with embroidery patterns typical of the Transylvania area. In fact there is an exporter there currently who carries blouses just like it. It was called Carpathia or something similar. I stumbled over them looking for more authentic garb. Julie > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 16:34:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OKYrRM007476 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 16:34:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OKY4NX018276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 14:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OKY10Y093930; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:34:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OKXw0Y093889 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:33:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D39FD28A5F for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:33:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p438.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.184]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B73DC424 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:33:56 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:34:04 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <1dd.2253a8d7.2de2d9b2@aol.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- And did anyone notice that (as far as the series showed), only Mistress Voohrees was punished for missing Sunday service, while her son and husband (who also was a Council member) were not? _________________ Interesting. From what I understand, about this time with the church and laws, the husband is responsible for the actions of his wife. If he and his family were not in church, the husband would have been the one brought before the Council. The wife would be brought in if she was the instigator in not attending church. This way of rules/law may not have been practiced in all the colonies. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 16:55:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OKt5RM007591 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 16:55:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OKpkNX020258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 14:51:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OKpi0Y008691; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:51:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f44.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OKpV0Y008353 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:51:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 24 May 2004 13:51:24 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 24 May 2004 20:51:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:51:23 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 May 2004 20:51:24.0241 (UTC) FILETIME=[E01FF410:01C441D0] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Tailor's X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Jean Waddie >The suffix "-ster" always indicated a woman - brewer/brewster, >weaver/webster etc. I guess that distinction died out and people forgot >it, and then added the "-ess" bit again to indicate female - like those >places called "hill-hill-hill" in three different languages. Has anyone mentioned that to the Teamsters? :) The OED's description of this process is interesteing and a lot longer, but does not differ from yours to any great degree. The entry also suggests Sartor as a possible alternative as well, although it's considerably later than the 12th century that's been under discussion. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 16:55:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OKt9RM007594 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 16:55:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OKsENX020536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 14:54:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OKsC0Y010805; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:54:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OKrZ0Y010245 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:53:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7B0829101 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:53:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p438.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.184]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 76150C495 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:53:33 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Tailor's Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:53:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i4OKrZ0Y010245 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO But it still comes down to whether Tailor was unisexed of gender specific in the 1100s. So far, the only sex identification is "le" for male and "la"(?)for female. It appears that tailor is French in origin. Thank you all for the information. De -----Original Message----- The suffix "-ster" always indicated a woman - brewer/brewster, weaver/webster etc. I guess that distinction died out and people forgot it, and then added the "-ess" bit again to indicate female - like those places called "hill-hill-hill" in three different languages. Jean Marc Carlson wrote >>From: "otsisto" >>So from what I can understand from this, someone refered to as a tailor in >>the 12th cent. could have been male or female and then gradually became a >>reference to a male sewer? > >I think the quotes in question say nothing about the gender of a tailor. > >The term "sempster" was originally a woman, which then came to refer to >either gender, then only men, with the women taking up the term >"semptress" by 1644. > >Marc > >> >Tailor = male sewer >> >Seamstress + female sewer >> >>OED - Tailor >>1. a. ‘One whose business is to make clothes’ (J.); a maker of the outer >>garments of men, also sometimes those of women, esp. riding-habits, walking >>costumes, etc. See also MERCHANT-TAILOR. (Although historically the tailor >>is the cutter, in the trade the ‘tailor’ is the man who sews or makes up >>what the ‘cutter’ has shaped.) 1297 R. GLOUC. (Rolls) 6391 A robe he let >>him ssape uerst of blod red scarlet there the ssarpe stones bi the stret is >>tailors were..the tailors corue so moni peces uor is robe ne ssolde pow3e. >> >>OED - Seamstress, Sempstress >>A woman who seams or sews; a needlewoman whose occupation is plain >>sewing as >>distinguished from dress or mantle-making, decorative embroidery, etc. >>1644 >>HOWELL Twelve Treat. (1661) 47 A great masse of money and plate was brought >>into the Guild-hall, the Semstresse brought in her silver >>Thimble,..the Cook >>his Spoons. >> >>However, >> >>OED Seamster, Sempster >>One who sews; one whose occupation is sewing, esp. the making and >>mending of >>garments; a tailor, seamstress. >>Originally a designation of a woman, but in OE. already applicable to >>a man. >>Now only applied to one of the male sex, seamstress being commonly used for >>a female sewer. >>c995 in Kemble Cod. Diplom. VI. 131 Ane crencestræn, and ane semestran. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today >- it's FREE! >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 17:20:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OLKGRM007716 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 17:20:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OLIkNX023317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 15:18:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OLIh0Y030843; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:18:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OLIf0Y030803 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:18:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E76DB27CF5 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 16:18:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p438.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.184]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8D24CC419 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 16:18:38 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:18:46 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] FW: [standing_stones] Garb question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know what he's talking about but don't know the name either. Also, I can not find the site I had on how to make one of these. De -----Original Message----- Hi all, I'm trying to put together a late pd. German look, but I don't know what the actual name for the garb I want is. It is refered to as the "German man dress" it's like a vest with a pleated skirt. Does anyone know the actual name of this beast? I know if you do one poorly it winds up looking like a sun dress. Thanks for your help Kylan ADVERTISEMENT ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 17:49:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OLnpRM007858 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 17:49:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OLmvNX026480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 15:48:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OLmnf3055334; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:48:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OLmkf3055272 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:48:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-206-244.cvip.net [129.8.206.244]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B6285A27 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040524143725.02d46270@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:48:47 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: [standing_stones] Garb question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi De, It's called a waffenrock. I made one last year for a client at the request of a mutual friend. The friend did the skirt with organ pleats, and I did the "doublet" and slashed sleeves part. It was interesting and a challenge. More info on all costumes Ren German can be found at the GermanRenCostume yahoogroup. (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GermanRenCostume/). Organ pleats info came from a handout written by Julie Adams, and it doesn't have an Internet url on it. However, the GermanRenCostume files area has a pattern for "bases", which is the common term for the military skirt that is part of the waffenrock. The group also has other files and the people there are helpful with costuming questions. hth, Kimiko At 04:18 PM 5/24/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I know what he's talking about but don't know the name either. >Also, I can not find the site I had on how to make one of these. > >De >-----Original Message----- >Hi all, > >I'm trying to put together a late pd. German look, but I don't know >what the actual name for the garb I want is. It is refered to as >the "German man dress" it's like a vest with a pleated skirt. Does >anyone know the actual name of this beast? I know if you do one >poorly it winds up looking like a sun dress. > >Thanks for your help > >Kylan Kimiko Small Owner & Creator of DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 17:52:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OLqGRM007865 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 17:52:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OLpYNX026751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 15:51:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OLpWf3057423; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:51:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OLpRf3057372 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 15:51:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-206-244.cvip.net [129.8.206.244]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1738862EEF for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 14:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040524145028.00b0fa70@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:51:37 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Lion in Winter In-Reply-To: <40B24FF1.1000506@thibault.org> References: <20040524192550.1507.qmail@web80512.mail.yahoo.com> <20040524192550.1507.qmail@web80512.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:41 PM 5/24/2004 -0400, you wrote: >After a bit of searching, I finally found an in-costume photo online: > >http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/owlive/img/may04/close0523_big.jpg > >IMDB doesn't have photos yet, and most of the other places I checked only >had the movie title/art/poster. > >-- >Cynthia Virtue Try the SHO.com website. It has several photos, starting here http://www.sho.com/site/schedules/product_page.do?episodeid=117924&include=01photos.inc&seriesid=0 I Tivo'd it, so we get to watch it tonight. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner & Creator of DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 18:19:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OMJERM008045 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 18:19:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OMHJNX029267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 16:17:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OMHFf3077262; Mon, 24 May 2004 16:17:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OMGwf3077027 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 16:16:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8E0828EEA for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 17:16:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p438.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.184]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 99262C5EC for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 17:16:56 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Drawstring chemise Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:17:05 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <003b01c4419c$7eb96780$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oooh new picture to copy! It's not a drawstring chemise but what I would call laced. Thank you, De -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Gia Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:36 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Drawstring chemise Dont' worry about beeing 'late'. The picture link you provided is the best and clearest I've seen for that image. Thank you for posting it! Emer \ Gia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:44 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Drawstring chemise > A nice image of a ribbon used to hold a chemise together can be found at http://www.artformgallery.com/images2/vecchio/03_fl.jpg > > It's Palma Vecchio's Flora 1480-1528 > > Lisa - always a day late and a dollar short on these conversations it seems......oh well > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 18:31:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4OMVLRM008095 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 18:31:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OMUgNX000642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 16:30:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OMUcf3086837; Mon, 24 May 2004 16:30:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4OMUaf3086817 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 16:30:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFC8C29265 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 17:30:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p438.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.184]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B3158C495 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 17:30:35 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:30:44 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040524143725.02d46270@64.87.54.245> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Garb question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you. I had found not to long back a site that showed their interpretation of the garment. I guess if I find it back I find it back. Thank you again, much appreciated. De -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Kimiko Small Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:49 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: [standing_stones] Garb question Hi De, It's called a waffenrock. I made one last year for a client at the request of a mutual friend. The friend did the skirt with organ pleats, and I did the "doublet" and slashed sleeves part. It was interesting and a challenge. More info on all costumes Ren German can be found at the GermanRenCostume yahoogroup. (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GermanRenCostume/). Organ pleats info came from a handout written by Julie Adams, and it doesn't have an Internet url on it. However, the GermanRenCostume files area has a pattern for "bases", which is the common term for the military skirt that is part of the waffenrock. The group also has other files and the people there are helpful with costuming questions. hth, Kimiko At 04:18 PM 5/24/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I know what he's talking about but don't know the name either. >Also, I can not find the site I had on how to make one of these. > >De >-----Original Message----- >Hi all, > >I'm trying to put together a late pd. German look, but I don't know >what the actual name for the garb I want is. It is refered to as >the "German man dress" it's like a vest with a pleated skirt. Does >anyone know the actual name of this beast? I know if you do one >poorly it winds up looking like a sun dress. > >Thanks for your help > >Kylan Kimiko Small Owner & Creator of DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 19:06:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ON6rRM008352 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 19:06:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ON4jNX003944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 17:04:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ON4ef3009926; Mon, 24 May 2004 17:04:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from thrednedlestrete.com (mail02.enterhost.com [69.93.13.234]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ON4cf3009817 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 17:04:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:04:26 -0500 Message-Id: <200405241804.AA34472114@thrednedlestrete.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Drawstring chemise X-Mailer: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't think it's a drawstring chemise either, but I did have to look at the left side ribbon more than once to make sure. For a moment it did look like it might be coming from a tunnel, so perhas the other portrait in question has a similar illusion. Lisa Sinervo ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "otsisto" Reply-To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:17:05 -0500 >Oooh new picture to copy! >It's not a drawstring chemise but what I would call laced. > >Thank you, >De > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 19:30:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ONUwRM008469 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 19:30:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ONUKNX006005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 17:30:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ONUGf3026081; Mon, 24 May 2004 17:30:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta1.sucs.soton.ac.uk (mta1.sucs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.128.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ONUDf3026033 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 17:30:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hbgd103@soton.ac.uk) Received: from yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk (yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.128.19]) by mta1.sucs.soton.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ONTuaF021160 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 00:29:56 +0100 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA32617 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 May 2004 00:29:56 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: yew.sucs.soton.ac.uk: nobody set sender to hbgd103@soton.ac.uk using -f To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the red dress in 'Van Helsing' Message-ID: <1085441396.40b285741fe7c@webmail.soton.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 00:29:56 +0100 (BST) From: Hilary Davidson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6 X-Originating-IP: 62.25.131.133 X-ISS-MailScanner: Believed to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The costume designer is Gabriella Pescucci, who won the Oscar fro Age of Innocence, and usually knows her stuff. However, the 'stuff' for this film seems to be quite tongue-in- cheek (I laughed throughout), so I'm sure they weren't looking for strict accuracy! It reminded me of the one Winona Ryder wears in 'Bram Stoker's Dracula', and since VH seemed to reference every other vampire/monster movie made, it may have been an homage. Because tight pants, leather corsets and heeled knee high boots aren't really appropriate late nineteenth century Romanian women's wear either ;) File it with 'historically referenced fantasy' re: actors from LOTR - three Australians in the leads in a non-Australian film! Brilliant. Loved Richard Roxburgh as Dracula (the duke from Moulin Rouge, in which 'Faramir' also appears, heavily made up, as Aubrey ). Hammier than a pig farm. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 19:48:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4ONmLRM008568 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 19:48:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ONljNX007303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 17:47:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ONlgf3035837; Mon, 24 May 2004 17:47:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.228]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4ONlff3035824 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 17:47:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.21.180.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.180] helo=HELENPINTO) by mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BSPAS-0000Pj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 24 May 2004 16:47:41 -0700 Message-ID: <023b01c441e9$7f3b88d0$b4159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040524184124.69647.qmail@web41312.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Troy - I have an idea. Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:47:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef36b3e940475cc501d8195014ac471c18350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was prepared to dislike it; I actually enjoyed it. I saw it on a very big screen, and it was close enough to really see the weaving. Those ikat bands on the edge of Priam's robe were incredible. (Non-costume-related: The individual combats were seriously cool.) -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 21:31:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4P1VdRM009256 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 21:31:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P1UtNX014048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 19:30:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P1Ukf3008676; Mon, 24 May 2004 19:30:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P1Uif4008637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 19:30:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4P1Ue4d015324 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 18:30:41 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: philosopher's stone Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:36:03 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In earlier books, editors changed a lot of "Briticisms" to > "Americanisms," > and of course made the infamous title change. But the fifth book retained > most British slang because (according to the article I read) so many > Americans were buying Canadian and British copies to get the "real thing." I bought 2 copies of each book. One from Amazon.com, and one from Amazon.uk. I think someone's idiot nephew needed a job and they gave him the "translations" to do. I personally grew up reading the books by Enid Blyton with British kids and stories. I've never had any problem telling a windscreen from a windshield. I must admit that the kids taking "rugs" along on camping trips threw me until I realized she meant blankets, but it didn't bollix up the story any. Same with the Narnia and E. Nesbitt, Lloyd Alexander and all the other books I have read and loved and give copies to my nieces and nephews, now my Great nieces. Regina > > I think based on this evidence, and the thousands if not millions > of buyers > it's based on, the original decision against "philosopher's stone" was > incorrect. After all, it was simply based on a guess. > Yes. Personally, I think the whole hoorah about changing the name of the first book had more to do with the contempt that the publisher had for the American public's intelligence, than is actually the case. We will never have any evidence that American children would have been devastated by Philosopher or Sorcerer. We just know that the accusation has been made, and the fact that the publisher changed the names is taken as proof positive that they are slobbering idiots as compared to their British counterparts. (Wonder how many of them knew about the Philosopher's Stone before the book title came out? Wonder how many still know what it was supposed to be in medieval literature? Bet most think Rowling made it all up out of her head.) Regina > Gail Finke > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 21:44:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4P1iIRM009289 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 21:44:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P1gRNX014780 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 19:42:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P1gOf3014623; Mon, 24 May 2004 19:42:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes2.whowhere.com [209.202.220.219]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4P1gMf3014564 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 19:42:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Tue, 25 May 2004 01:42:10 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 01:42:10 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Lion in Winter X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.66 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had heard about and wanted to see it but I just discovered that the showtime link won't work in the UK. Anyone know if it is going to air over here? Cheers, Danielle --------- Original Message --------- >At 03:41 PM 5/24/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Try the SHO.com website. It has several photos, starting here >http://www.sho.com/site/schedules/product_page.do?episodeid=117924&include=01photos.inc&seriesid=0 > >I Tivo'd it, so we get to watch it tonight. > >Kimiko Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 21:46:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4P1kQRM009301 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 21:46:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P1jnNX015128 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 19:45:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P1jmf3016401; Mon, 24 May 2004 19:45:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes2.whowhere.com [209.202.220.219]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4P1jjf3016351 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 19:45:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Tue, 25 May 2004 01:45:25 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 01:45:25 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: RE: [h-cost] Drawstring chemise X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.66 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, That was the one that came to mind for me as well, and I just realized I never saw my post referring to it come through on the list. : ) Cheers, Danielle >A nice image of a ribbon used to hold a chemise together can be found at http://www.artformgallery.com/images2/vecchio/03_fl.jpg > >It's Palma Vecchio's Flora 1480-1528 > >Lisa - always a day late and a dollar short on these conversations it seems......oh well > > >---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >From: "otsisto" >Reply-To: Historical Costume >Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:32:40 -0500 > >>The bow which is a double loop and not a singular is not going into a casing >>though it could be perceived as doing so. The loop is caught up in the >>ruffle and gap/seam opening. >>This is not an example of drawstring chemise. >> >>There are portraits that show several ties on a camicia. These ties have >>been surmised as how the camicia was adjusted instead of a draw-string. >>There is a portrait that I can't find right now that have the ties between >>all of the panels. Usually, the camicia is made of 7" wide linen panels. >> >>De >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 22:07:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4P27VRM009380 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 22:07:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P25dNX016479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 20:05:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P25af3025980; Mon, 24 May 2004 20:05:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes2.whowhere.com [209.202.220.219]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4P25Zf3025921 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 20:05:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Tue, 25 May 2004 02:05:10 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 02:05:10 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Troy - I have an idea. X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.65 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: "Marc Carlson" >For example, with the combat, I was delighted by the fact that the fight >choreographer had obviously spent some time looking at the vase paintings :) > With the armor --it's pretty clear that while the armor was inspired by >histoprical armor forms from Greece (it should be noted that putting the >folks in the Trojan War into kit modeled on classical greek forms is pretty >much the same as sticking Arthurian folks into Plate armor - it makes sense >from the standpoint of telling the myth, but probably doesn't reflect what >might have actually been worn. OTOH, since I don't think that Arthur or >Troy are more than myths layered over god knows what, dressing them in the >"correct" clothes is pretty anachronistic too :) ) . However from those >classical forms, they sort of wandered off into what looks cool. Even so, I >think the armor looked pretty nifty - lots of attention to detail. >Now (and didn't you know it was coming) the footwear. All things >considered, based on what I saw on screen, I was pretty happy with it. >Admittedly we have zero (0) examples of Grecian era footwear, but we have >lots of pictures and statues. Which means that we have some theories about >how they were done. From what I could see of the shoes and boots, it looks >to me like the costumers actually took those into consideration (and of >course then wandered off into what-looks-cool land, but don't think I'm >being critical there :) ). Very nicely done, all in all. > >As for the rest of the costuming... It did an excellent and interesting >job of describing the various characters with visual suggestions (for >example, making Agamemnon look like an oriental potentate) > >All in all, I had a good time with it. > >Marc I haven't seen the movie yet but have seen trailers and posters and I'm glad to see your observations suggest that I am probably going in the right direction with my thoughts on the matter. I took a class on art and the Trojan war (we read the Illiad during of course) and I was pleased that the movie includes both main types of shields displayed in Greek art about the Trojan war. I was curious for those who have seen it, did they use any of the Greek costuming conventions such as leggings or trousers on the Trojans to show their foreigness? Oh, Marc, on the subject of footwear - were you aware of thesis (Can't remember the woman's name) which was done using the stylistic analysis of Greek footwear in sculpture? Some of the findings turned the entire Greek art community on its head. A sculpture which had been attributed to Praxitales (sp?) was proved that it had to have been a much later copy since the style of the figure's footwear didn't come into use until at least a hundered years after Praxitales was dead. Cheers, Danielle Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 22:53:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4P2rNRM009832 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 22:53:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P2pXNX019452 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 20:51:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P2pVf3048569; Mon, 24 May 2004 20:51:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P2pRf3048482 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 20:51:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m153.in-tch.com [216.166.191.153]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4P2RNe09464 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 20:27:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40B2B55D.2000205@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:54:21 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate References: <4.1.20040523204221.020e1b70@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've never worn anything but a basic 16th c. corset, and while it certainly supports the girls a LOT better than any modern bra I've ever tried, I was never able to bend over in it--probably had something to do with all that metal. If I ever get around to making my 1760-ish middle class (colonial) outfit, which I want to do just for fun, I plan on trying half-boned stays. Dunno if I'd ever be svelt enough to wear anything Victorian or Edwardian.... --sue Bice wrote: > *G* I'm with you. My corsetted (not tight-laced that's different > measurements) is 40" as well. I can bend jump up and down etc. Also see a > book called The Happy Valley The Elegant Eighties in Upstate NY by Pauline > Dakin Taft by Syracuse University Press for women in bustles playing tennis > and jumping over the net!! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 11:43 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate > > > >>>4) The confrontational part of me says - yes, dress up in full Victorian >>>gear and tour the museum, showing your full balance and lack of crushed >>>ribcages ;) >> >>My corseted waist these days is near 40". And I amazed the folks at the >>Hyde Street Pier living history day by reaching over and touching my toes >>while wearing mine - a c1901 straight-front. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 23:39:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4P3d7RM010067 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 23:39:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P3cTNX022511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 21:38:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P3cRf3071353; Mon, 24 May 2004 21:38:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav29.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P3cOf3071293 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 21:38:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 24 May 2004 20:38:19 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.51 by bay1-dav29.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 25 May 2004 03:38:19 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.51] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.1.20040523204221.020e1b70@mail.frys.com> <40B2B55D.2000205@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 23:38:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 May 2004 03:38:19.0635 (UTC) FILETIME=[B8D56C30:01C44209] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Edwardian women were *not* svelte. In fact it was the curvier the better. Most of my corsets are s-curve Edwardian's or V-shaped post CW. ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:54 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate > I've never worn anything but a basic 16th c. corset, and while it > certainly supports the girls a LOT better than any modern bra I've ever > tried, I was never able to bend over in it--probably had something to do > with all that metal. > If I ever get around to making my 1760-ish middle class (colonial) > outfit, which I want to do just for fun, I plan on trying half-boned stays. > Dunno if I'd ever be svelt enough to wear anything Victorian or > Edwardian.... > --sue > > Bice wrote: > > *G* I'm with you. My corsetted (not tight-laced that's different > > measurements) is 40" as well. I can bend jump up and down etc. Also see a > > book called The Happy Valley The Elegant Eighties in Upstate NY by Pauline > > Dakin Taft by Syracuse University Press for women in bustles playing tennis > > and jumping over the net!! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 11:43 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate > > > > > > > >>>4) The confrontational part of me says - yes, dress up in full Victorian > >>>gear and tour the museum, showing your full balance and lack of crushed > >>>ribcages ;) > >> > >>My corseted waist these days is near 40". And I amazed the folks at the > >>Hyde Street Pier living history day by reaching over and touching my toes > >>while wearing mine - a c1901 straight-front. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 24 23:43:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4P3hwRM010071 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 23:43:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P3g8NX022733 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 21:42:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P3fqf3073014; Mon, 24 May 2004 21:41:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m03.lax.untd.com (m03.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4P3fef3072834 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 21:41:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa58@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 9q05Lp5l6pU14shT5B1ERqgggVO/27V794AcOb2YhfYLDobTm0MM6g== Received: (from lisa58@juno.com) by m03.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JWFSYN9B; Mon, 24 May 2004 20:40:26 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 23:06:35 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Message-ID: <20040524.232941.-8837.5.lisa58@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5 From: Lisa A Ashton X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You guys are so cool! I wrote my Masters thesis about the Salem witch trials, and some of this conversation seems to be beinging napping memory cells back to life... So far I haven't really liked any of the movies or TV recreations of the times/trials...there was far more to it than people seem to think. Yours in costuming, Lisa A. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 00:09:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4P494RM010150 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 00:09:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P48PNX024535 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 22:08:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P48Lf3085452; Mon, 24 May 2004 22:08:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts6.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P48Jf3085400 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 22:08:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.136.200]) by simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040525040812.JLLU19011.simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 00:08:12 -0400 Message-ID: <00df01c4420d$dc785c20$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 00:07:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Yet another bodice question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's another bodice question for those of you who know what you are doing far better than I. :-) I have loved this painting ever since I first found it: http://costume.dm.net/gallery/1569.html Now for the dangerous part. :-) I just found today some gorgeous orange fabric *and* some embroidered fabric that resembles her shirt. (my resolve to not buy any more fabric until I finish at least a couple of other projects is rapidly crumbling) My question is: would the young lady be wearing just a corset beneath her bodice, or would her bodice be boned as well? If you look closely at the picture, you can see the lacing of her shirt/partlet through the gap in her bodice, but you can't tell if there is a corset there. ( which could be explained by her wearing her shirt/partlet over it) Also, the bodice itself seems to be somewhat stiff, as it looks like it stands away from her bustline. Up to this point I have only dabbled my toes into the later period garments, (usually I do Near Eastern and early period clothing) I have yet to properly finish a full gown for fear of Getting It Wrong. This dress seems to want to get itself made, and I need all the help I can get. :-) Thanks all! Sheridan *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Thought For The Day: There is a very fine line between 'Hobby' and 'Mental Illness' _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 00:56:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4P4uuRM010291 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 00:56:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P4uKNX027418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 22:56:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P4u4f3008243; Mon, 24 May 2004 22:56:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P4u2f3008220 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 22:56:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 323ED5CC6BC; Tue, 25 May 2004 00:56:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0230.floodcity.net [198.93.211.230]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FC8E5CC07E for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 00:56:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B2D153.5C0E2421@floodcity.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 00:53:39 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate References: <4.1.20040523204221.020e1b70@mail.frys.com> <40B2B55D.2000205@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bice wrote: > > Edwardian women were *not* svelte. In fact it was the curvier the better. > Most of my corsets are s-curve Edwardian's or V-shaped post CW. is the S-curve another name for the flat front Edwardian corset with the exagerated backward sway? Now that one I could see throwing a person off balance. LOL Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 01:28:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4P5SYRM010379 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 01:28:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P5PTNX028779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 May 2004 23:25:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P5PRf3020567; Mon, 24 May 2004 23:25:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P5PPf3020556 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 23:25:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-206-244.cvip.net [129.8.206.244]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED89451D58 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 22:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040524220430.02d55490@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:25:38 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yet another bodice question In-Reply-To: <00df01c4420d$dc785c20$cb6afea9@sherry> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello Sheridan, I too loved that dress and portrait, and it was the basis for my first "nobles" dress I made. That was several years ago, and I still wear my dress at court. Totally different color and trim however. My first recommendation is to get the book Period Costume for Stage & Screen: Patterns for Women's Dress 1500-1800 by Jean Hunnisett, Janette Haslam (Illustrator) Seeing at Amazon the amazing price for a used copy, try to ILL it if possible. There Jean has the pattern for the dress and notes on it, including how to make it up. She has it hook and eye down the front, or it can be laced up the back. It also has the front boned, but I also wear a full corset underneath as I am rather ample. But my bodice does stand away from my upper area as well, but I cut it a bit too high to be proper. I think the page itself explains the bit under the bodice being seen as part of the partlet worn over the chemise and corset, and under the bodice. Whether the sleeves are attached separately or are a part of the partlet is unclear. I would suggest doing whatever is best for your weather situation and whatever material you use as the base of the sleeves. I also have seen a replica of this dress made and worn by a lady in a S. CA group called St. Augustine's. Jennifer Fleury is her name. I have not seen her this year, so I am not sure how to contact her. Hello Jennifer, you still here??? Well, I found a photo of her in the dress she wears. http://guildofstaugustine.org/lady%20warwick%20fcc%2002.jpg Anyway, hope that helps. Kimiko PS I love your sig line. Consider me mentally ill as well on costumes. Kimiko Small Owner & Creator of DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 02:06:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4P66hRM012824 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 02:06:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P661NX001166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 00:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P65vf3039436; Tue, 25 May 2004 00:05:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav63.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.198]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P65uf3039399 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 00:05:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 24 May 2004 23:05:51 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.51 by bay1-dav63.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 25 May 2004 06:05:51 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.51] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.1.20040523204221.020e1b70@mail.frys.com><40B2B55D.2000205@in-tch.com> <40B2D153.5C0E2421@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 01:29:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 May 2004 06:05:51.0247 (UTC) FILETIME=[54CE39F0:01C4421E] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well that's my corset of preference. And it really doesn't throw anyone off balance. It does have a decided sway backed look but it isn't a physical thing it's simply a "look" It seems to have given ride to the later "debutante's slouch" ============================= http://kristalori.com or http://swapking.com/hats/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty Felton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:53 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate > Bice wrote: > > > > Edwardian women were *not* svelte. In fact it was the curvier the better. > > Most of my corsets are s-curve Edwardian's or V-shaped post CW. > > is the S-curve another name for the flat front Edwardian corset with the > exagerated backward sway? Now that one I could see throwing a person > off balance. LOL Kitty > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 02:40:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4P6eORM027361 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 02:40:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P6cUNX002579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 00:38:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P6cQf3052814; Tue, 25 May 2004 00:38:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P6cMf3052758 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 00:38:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from pcez.com (www-data@dns1.pcez.com [209.102.124.11]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id XAA10415 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 23:40:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host www-data@dns1.pcez.com [209.102.124.11] claimed to be pcez.com From: "roscelin" To: Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 06:38:23 GMT X-Mailer: DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 2.3b, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <40b2e9df.14db.0@pcez.com> X-User-Info: 209.102.126.105 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Seed Pearls X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings one and all, Can anyone tell me where a good source for seed pearls would be? I need them for my beaded embroidery and for garb. Thanks for any assistance. Roscelin ------------------- http://www.pcez.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 02:49:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4P6nNRM031321 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 02:49:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P6mqNX003153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 00:48:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P6mpf3057534; Tue, 25 May 2004 00:48:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts12.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P6mmf3057449 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 00:48:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.136.200]) by simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040525064842.JRBH15788.simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 02:48:42 -0400 Message-ID: <00f001c44224$43689600$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 02:34:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Colour in the late 1800's X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Snooping about the internet, looking for something else entirely, I stumbled across this site: http://www.rickrack.com/antqfab.html Here is a very solid argument against the old saw that in the 'old days' people only had drab colors to choose from... Sheridan ------------------------------------------------- consciousness: that annoying time between naps. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 03:40:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4P7eERM004325 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 03:40:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P7dVNX005343 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 01:39:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P7dSf3078448; Tue, 25 May 2004 01:39:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P7dQf3078434 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 01:39:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-93-172.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.172]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4P7dKrp004008 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 00:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040525002613.02392f00@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 00:34:56 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colour in the late 1800's In-Reply-To: <00f001c44224$43689600$cb6afea9@sherry> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Snooping about the internet, looking for something else entirely, I stumbled >across this site: > > http://www.rickrack.com/antqfab.html > >Here is a very solid argument against the old saw that in the 'old days' >people only had drab colors to choose from... Thank you so much for this. I am forwarding it to the Ranger in charge of the living history program I had so much trouble with - the one who told me that bright colors were very expensive and therefore uncommon. In addition, I am reminding her that the fabrics on the site are only cotton, and in an 1880s silk crazy quilt the same colors would be even brighter. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 05:07:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4P97NRM005217 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 05:07:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P96hNX008877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 03:06:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P96Xf3012805; Tue, 25 May 2004 03:06:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P96Sf3012689 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 03:06:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.28]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4P95vRC030446 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:06:02 +1000 Message-ID: <000201c44237$2377ba20$1c91d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040523.214337.-407941.1.lisa58@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:23:17 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa A Ashton" To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives This is one of my favorite time periods, having just completed a > historical reproduction of the dress that Mary Tudor is wearing in her > famous wedding portrait with Charles Brandon. I believe that there will > at some point be photos up on the Costume-Connections website for CC22 in > Atlanta this past April, the Historical MAsquerade. > > Yours in costuming, Lisa A. Whew! with all those Pearls on the sleeves? I'm impressed! It wouldn't be my choice as that's one of the reasons I chose the earlier half of the 16th century, because unlike the Elizabethans they were rather more modest in their decoration letting the pretty fabrics speak for themselves, rather than overwhelming them with pearls & jewels (and sewing on those jewels is too much work for my taste). but I'm always happy to see others do these things. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 05:08:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4P98YRM005221 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 05:08:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P97vNX008934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 03:07:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P97vf3013364; Tue, 25 May 2004 03:07:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4P96lf3012907 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 03:06:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.28]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4P95vRI030446 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:06:44 +1000 Message-ID: <000501c44237$355f77a0$1c91d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40B0644C.27134.4584EF@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:24:20 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:43 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Weight of underwear > and something else is really bugging me. someone stated that just > > because the bones were deformed and the organs misplaced didn't mean > > that the person was in pain or unhealthy. that is like saying that > > the Chinese women whose feet were wrapped from babyhood to maintain > > the tiny foot were not unhealthy just because they couldn't walk, or > > just because they didn't suffer pain as long as they remained in one > > place. > > You have just used an *extreme* example. Women who had their feet > bound *usually* had major foot problems, even if they just sat still. > But it was something that the lower classes didn't do. Wearing > corsets isn't like that. Since you can do anything in a corset that > you can do out of one and since it was something that the lower class > women did too, it's not the same kind of thing at all. Kat > I have to agree here, I think a better analogy for body changes during corsetry would be dental braces, they gradually modify the shape of your bones over time through constant pressure. Like corsets they can cause pain when they are tightened further than your body has become accustomed to, and can inhibit your use of the area involved (several friends got by on just liquids for 24 hours after their braces were tightened because chewing was too painful) but soon your body takes this new level of pressure as normal and begins to adapt. Chinese footbinding involves sudden reshaping of bones by snapping the bones in the foot folding the toes under and binding the foot in that position (although this was the extreme and many other methods worked to gradually move the toes under and towards the heel through progressively tighter bindings and shoes). The process of footbinding also commonly resulted in things like inflammation and ulceration, damaged nerves were less common and an occasional case of gangrene or paralysis were not unheard of, I haven't heard accounts of these sorts of complications even for the most extreme tightlacers. The female body is designed to have internal organs moved about for the sake of pregnancy (many women's floating ribs will also move during pregnancy) and therefore adapts to corsetry relatively easily, feet are not designed to change shape at all, especially not to the extent of footbinding they are also not designed to take any weight (especially not your whole weight) on the top bony part. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 08:25:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PCPwRM006248 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 08:25:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PCOJNX017922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 06:24:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PCOCf3097772; Tue, 25 May 2004 06:24:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (thunder.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PCO9f3097671 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 06:24:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (dialup-a2-184.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.248.184]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 93C8D42542 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:23:57 +1000 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Troy - I have an idea. Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 22:26:41 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You know, if you are watching a movie, TV show or play and counting stitches, glaring at fabrics or grimmacing at cuts, you are missing the point. The object of an historical costume design is to evoke the feel of the age and the emotion of the characters, not to present a text book for other costumers. How many people on this list have thrown up at the thought of the costuming of Gone with the Wind, Master & Commander, Sinbad the Sailor or a thousand other movies? They are all crap from an historically correct point of view but when was that ever the point? A dialogue about what was "correct" in Troy is a great idea but don't brush aside the rest of it without acknowledging why those "faults" were there, -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 08:36:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PCanRM006279 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 08:36:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PCaENX018398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 06:36:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PCaDf3003463; Tue, 25 May 2004 06:36:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PCaAf3003435 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 06:36:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu (vcs077.vet.cornell.edu [128.253.111.77]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i4PCa8YR014820 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 08:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040525082931.00b8b008@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:36:11 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: RE: [h-cost] Troy - I have an idea. In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey there... excellent points, however there are also a few things to the contrary to consider. I watch a movie to be entertained - not to count stitches ; > but because I am an educated viewer in respect to costume and clothing, and some cultural points when the movie "misses the mark" it is jarring - and sometimes jarring enough to distract me from the story of the movie. That really is an irritant, and spoils the experience. Not entirely, but the atmosphere that the movie is trying to create is popped like a balloon. So I do enjoy it when researchers, costumers, set designers and directors put in the effort to create authenticity as well as atmosphere. Those are the movies I will go back to view again. Bridgette >You know, if you are watching a movie, TV show or play and counting >stitches, glaring at fabrics or grimmacing at cuts, you are missing the >point. > >The object of an historical costume design is to evoke the feel of the age >and the emotion of the characters, not to present a text book for other >costumers. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 08:57:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PCvbRM006367 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 08:57:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PCv2NX019378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 06:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PCuxf3013408; Tue, 25 May 2004 06:57:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PCuvf3013371 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 06:56:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A29727BD00B6; Tue, 25 May 2004 08:56:55 -0400 Received: from rmitchellras ([209.131.81.111]) by cleveland.washjeff.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 25 May 2004 08:56:54 -0400 Message-ID: <002c01c44258$a19d1c80$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40b2e9df.14db.0@pcez.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seed Pearls Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:03:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 May 2004 12:56:54.0999 (UTC) FILETIME=[C18C1E70:01C44257] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fire Mountain Gems should be able to provide you with almost any size. The present size of seed pearls available seems to start at #2; from time to time, they carry really tinyones. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "roscelin" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:38 AM Subject: [h-cost] Seed Pearls > Greetings one and all, > > Can anyone tell me where a good source for seed pearls would be? > I need them for my beaded embroidery and for garb. > Thanks for any assistance. > > Roscelin > > ------------------- > http://www.pcez.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 09:00:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PD0URM006383 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 09:00:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PCwWNX019449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 06:58:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PCwWf3014152; Tue, 25 May 2004 06:58:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PCwVf3013978 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 06:58:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i4PCwBT06566.; Tue, 25 May 2004 13:58:11 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 25 May 2004 13:58:10 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:57:59 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Troy - I have an idea. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> stilskin@netspace.net.au 5/25/04 1:26:41 PM >>> wrote: >You know, if you are watching a movie, TV show or play and counting >stitches, glaring at fabrics or grimmacing at cuts, you are missing the >point. I agree; unless something is obviously wrong, I'm usually too busy following the story to notice. >How many people on this list have thrown up at the thought of the >costuming of Gone with the Wind, Master & Commander, Sinbad the >Sailor or a thousand other movies? They are all crap from an historically >correct point of view but when was that ever the point? What's your objection to "Master and Commander"? It won a BAFTA award for costumes, and they are supposed to have gone to immense trouble to get the right fabrics etc. My only quibble is that while the ship was being repaired the officers would have been wearing old clothes instead of uniform, but I suppose that was done to make it obvious who was who. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 09:00:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PD0ZRM006386 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 09:00:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PCxsNX019552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 06:59:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PCxqf3014847; Tue, 25 May 2004 06:59:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PCxlf3014758 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 06:59:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1e9.213df6a6 (4468) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 08:59:37 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1e9.213df6a6.2de49d39@aol.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:59:37 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Troy - I have an idea. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/25/2004 8:25:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, stilskin@netspace.net.au writes: > They are all crap from an historically correct point of view > but when was that ever the point? > Uh....no they are not. Many films may not be super accurate, but they have respect for the period. Even GWTW. For me it's the designs and how they relate to character and the total art direction. That's why something like "Excalibur" has IMHO great costumes even thought the armor is fantasy as well as the gowns....but they fit in with the concept and look great......but something like "Bram Stoker's Dracula" sux even though the costumes are indeed beautiful but are a mess concept-wise and show little respect or understanding of the correct period. Of course this is what you are saying, but the films you state do not have crappy costumes. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 09:07:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PD7RRM006423 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 09:07:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PD6nNX019931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 07:06:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PD6nf3018310; Tue, 25 May 2004 07:06:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PD6kf4018273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 07:06:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4PD6O2x002965 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 09:06:24 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 25 May 2004 09:06:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B344E4.8020705@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:06:44 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Troy - I have an idea. References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Christopher Ballis wrote: > You know, if you are watching a movie, TV show or play and counting > stitches, glaring at fabrics or grimmacing at cuts, you are missing the > point. The point is different for everyone who watches it. Some folks probably watch costume dramas for the cleavage. At any rate, we've discussed the issue of theatrics vs. accuracy pretty much every time a historical movie comes out. Which has been regularly in the past year, so I'd be surprised if there's much new ground to be covered in that philosophical debate. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 09:36:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PDaORM006655 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 09:36:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PDZSNX021896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 07:35:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PDYtf3032942; Tue, 25 May 2004 07:35:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PDWqf3031725 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 07:33:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 25 May 2004 08:32:44 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Beta Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:32:27 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Lion in Winter DVD X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Checked with the DH who works for a wholesale video warehouse; the Stewart/Close version of Lion in Winter will be released on DVD on July 20th. He very thoughtfully brought me home a screener (advanced copy with a lot of ads and very few of the extras) but have I had a chance to watch it yet? Nooooooo. And then last night's episode of Colonial House got interrupted by a trip to the basement because of tornado sirens. Fortunately we didn't loose power and the vcr kept right on taping :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 09:48:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PDmDRM010964 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 09:48:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PDkCNX022793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 07:46:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PDkAf3039311; Tue, 25 May 2004 07:46:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts7.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.165]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PDk8f3039275 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 07:46:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.136.200]) by simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040525134604.KYRC11651.simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 09:46:04 -0400 Message-ID: <011301c4425e$8b6c34e0$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lion in Winter DVD Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:45:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:32 AM Subject: [h-cost] Lion in Winter DVD > Checked with the DH who works for a wholesale video warehouse; the > Stewart/Close version of Lion in Winter will be released on DVD on July > 20th. He very thoughtfully brought me home a screener (advanced copy > with a lot of ads and very few of the extras) but have I had a chance to > watch it yet? Nooooooo. > > And then last night's episode of Colonial House got interrupted by a > trip to the basement because of tornado sirens. Fortunately we didn't > loose power and the vcr kept right on taping :). > > Catherine Tornado? Wow, isn't this early in the year for that kind of nasty weather? Where do you live? Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 09:56:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PDu0RM011067 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 09:56:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PDtMNX023296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 07:55:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PDtKf3044463; Tue, 25 May 2004 07:55:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PDtIf3044442 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 07:55:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i4PDtHT11632.; Tue, 25 May 2004 14:55:17 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 25 May 2004 14:55:16 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:55:13 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crinoline, was Questions grow the more I read Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm surprised none of the list's Victorian enthusiasts has jumped in on this one. It's not my period at all, but a Google search on "Crinoline" brings up some likely-looking sites. >>> basyefelton@floodcity.net 5/24/04 1:13:15 PM >>> Ok, thanks, that helps a bit. it wasn't just starched then, it had something sewn in. was it ALL horsehair or did it have bands like the hoops? or was it just one row at the bottom? Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 10:55:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PEtgRM011454 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 10:55:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PEt3NX028328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 08:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PEswf3083874; Tue, 25 May 2004 08:54:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PEsvf3083829 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 08:54:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA18640 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 09:54:54 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:54:54 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I watched the two hours last night and it is inevitable that if you take a group of hand-picked applicants out of 10,000 or so wanna-bes(pick 'em deliberately for the proper 21st c. PC ness, plus how little they know of the time, plus their reasons for their wanting to do it, and add in they have to be reasonably photogenic w/o makeup for the camera and edit for a less than 8 hrs total to get the most dramatic impact)and you are not going to get real time-time travellers, you are going to get Colonial or whatever House Survivor. Anyhow, it is great fun for us watching that are not as clueless as the participants which is why we won't ever get picked. If anything, it is a graphic display of why Puritans and others had to make such laws to keep everyone in line because it was their survival at stake. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 10:58:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PEwJRM011491 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 10:58:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PEuTNX028523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 08:56:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PEuTf3084920; Tue, 25 May 2004 08:56:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts5.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PEtef3084332 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 08:55:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.136.200]) by simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040525145536.LTFK28433.simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 10:55:36 -0400 Message-ID: <012501c44268$41081fe0$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.1.20040525002613.02392f00@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colour in the late 1800's Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:54:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wrote: > >Snooping about the internet, looking for something else entirely, I stumbled > >across this site: > > > > http://www.rickrack.com/antqfab.html > > > >Here is a very solid argument against the old saw that in the 'old days' > >people only had drab colors to choose from... > CarolynKayta Barrows wrote: > Thank you so much for this. I am forwarding it to the Ranger in charge of > the living history program I had so much trouble with - the one who told me > that bright colors were very expensive and therefore uncommon. In > addition, I am reminding her that the fabrics on the site are only cotton, > and in an 1880s silk crazy quilt the same colors would be even brighter. > You're welcome! Take a look at the Grain bag/Flour sack section on this website, I was soooo excited to see patterns that I remember both of my Grandmothers having around the house while I was growing up, especially the border print bags. My Mom or my Aunt had a skirt made from one of these, we had pillowcases and tea towels too. :-) Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 11:03:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PF3SRM011579 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 11:03:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PF2nNX029843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 09:02:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PF2lf3089459; Tue, 25 May 2004 09:02:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4PF2gf3089341 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 09:02:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OtOetRGL7/HiGr2b5K62FGM= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JWGZYF3Z; Tue, 25 May 2004 08:01:54 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:39:19 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seed Pearls Message-ID: <20040525.080146.1476.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,8-13,15-49 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, Roselin! What Kathleen said. :-) You can order a copy of their catalog on-line--they also have an on-line catalog, but it's not as much fun, or as safe to drool on as the paper one. I think the addy is www.firemountaingems.com, but if that doesn't work, try a Google search under Fire Mountain Gems. My catalog got here in 4 days. I understand from other local customers that they ship promptly, have good prices, and give terrific service. What gorgeous thing are you up to now? Arlys On Tue, 25 May 2004 09:03:09 -0400 "Lloyd Mitchell" writes: > Fire Mountain Gems should be able to provide you with almost any > size. The > present size of seed pearls available seems to start at #2; from > time to > time, they carry really tinyones. > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "roscelin" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:38 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Seed Pearls > > > > Greetings one and all, > > > > Can anyone tell me where a good source for seed pearls would be? > > I need them for my beaded embroidery and for garb. > > Thanks for any assistance. > > > > Roscelin > > > > ------------------- > > http://www.pcez.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 11:37:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PFb5RM012339 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 11:37:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PFaFNX003343 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 09:36:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PFa1f3015808; Tue, 25 May 2004 09:36:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out003.verizon.net (out003pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PFZwf3015748 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 09:35:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pandoraf@verizon.net) Received: from outgoing.verizon.net ([192.168.1.1]) by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040525153553.ZITV6671.out003.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 10:35:53 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.12 (webedge20-101-197-20030912) From: To: Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 8:35:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [192.168.1.1] at Tue, 25 May 2004 10:35:53 -0500 Message-Id: <20040525153553.ZITV6671.out003.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A history of the clog X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This article gives not citations/references, but I thought it was interesting enough to share with the list. is mise le meas, Pandora Fitzpatrick Everett, WA > Date: 2004/05/24 Mon PM 07:09:21 PDT > To: Slighe > Subject: [slighe] A history of the clog > portion of an article on clogs Inverness Courier, Oct. 17, 1911, p. 3d. "The modern clog owes its existence to the Flemish weavers, who were induced to come to Lancashire by Edward III, acting on the advice of his wife, Philippa, who was alive to the importance of developing the cotton and woollen trades in this country. One of the baits held out to the Flemish was that they would have the opportunity of mating with the Lancashire Witches, who were renowned for their beauty. Such towns as Manchester, Bolton, and Rochdale were soon occupied by the Flemish weavers. Their sabots were made of wood, and lined with lambskin in order to protect the top of the foot. These wooden clogs were considered clumsy and uncomfortable by the native weavers, who sought to improve them. The wooden sole was maintained, and its durability increased by a thin rim of iron. The tops were made of leather, which, owing to its plastic nature, is far more comfortable than wood. But the clog is not a stereotyped article of attire. It can boast various shapes and patterns,! and offers as much variety as any other form of footwear. The ordinary workaday clog is an unassuming article, but there are other patterns which challenge attention. The clogs with the brass toe caps and clips shed a glow down the street when caught by the sun. Then there is the 'dressy' clog beloved of the sporting collier. The leather work boasts a fanciful design, the overflowing tag is like-wise ornamented and the leather thong is tied in a neglige' manner, which completes the sporting effect. The vanity of the female portion of the community is catered for by slender and shapely clogs, devoid of any suggestion of crudity and ugliness which often attaches to this type of footwear. In order to wear clogs with comfort one must pass through a novitiate. When first adopted they have an unpleasant tendency to chafe severely the toes and heels. But this drawback is soon overcome, and one is constrained to admit that clogs are excellent in many respects. They are very economical, for their durability is remarkable, and they are no trouble to keep clean. In fact they are always polished in a manner that would warm the heart of the most pessimistic boot-polish vendor. They are not the slightest trouble to put on or take off, and this is an important consideration when very early rising is one of the first rules of life. In wet weather clogs are more serviceable than boots for keeping out the damp. On the other hand in snow or frosty weather, though comfortably warm, they are very apt to run away with one. But even this disadvantage, is turned to good account, for clogs may be made to serve as skates. The wearer simply bends his ankles like the ordinary skate! r, thus presenting to the ice only the iron rims, which are smooth and highly polished by constant friction." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 12:30:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PGU2RM012589 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:30:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PGS1NX008723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 10:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PGRuf3071934; Tue, 25 May 2004 10:27:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f36.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PGRtf3071821 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 10:27:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 25 May 2004 09:27:47 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:27:46 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:27:46 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 May 2004 16:27:47.0208 (UTC) FILETIME=[36DA0080:01C44275] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Troy - I have an idea X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" >I haven't seen the movie yet but have seen trailers and posters and I'm >glad to see your >observations suggest that I am probably going in the >right direction with my thoughts on the >matter. I took a class on art and the Trojan war (we read the Illiad during >of course) and I was >pleased that the movie includes both main types of >shields displayed in Greek art about the Trojan >war. I was curious for >those who have seen it, did they use any of the Greek costuming > >conventions such as leggings or trousers on the Trojans to show their >foreigness? I don;t recall seeing trousers on the Trojans, but honestly I was looking at other thing... :) >Oh, Marc, on the subject of footwear - were you aware of thesis (Can't >remember the woman's >name) which was done using the stylistic analysis of >Greek footwear in sculpture?... That would be: Dohan, K. E." Hypodemata, the Study of Greek Footwear and Its Chronological Value." PhD, Bryn Mawr College1982. I hadn;trealized it was that influential - it's an excellent read btw. I don't know enough about the subject to be harshly critical of her conclusions, but for the most part it all holds together well, Righ tnow I'm trying to work my way though Reid, Patricia. Embodied identity as Process: Performativity through Footwear in Mid-Medieval (AD 800-1200) Norhtern Europe.. U of London, 2000. Also very good, if a little heavy on the Academese. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN Premium! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 12:30:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PGUlRM012595 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:30:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PGU6NX008917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 10:30:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PGU4f3073695; Tue, 25 May 2004 10:30:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PGSaf3072423 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 10:28:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.195.2a3502d4 (4402) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:28:27 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <195.2a3502d4.2de4ce2b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:28:27 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lion in Winter DVD To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/25/2004 9:47:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca writes: > Tornado? Wow, isn't this early in the year for that kind of nasty weather? > Where do you live? > Don't you watch the news? [Well, actually I can understand if you don't] The weather has been hammering the central states. And spring is tornado season. Actually it's tornado season all year. I just hope no one was [is, will be] killed! Albert "I live in NC and we have them here too" Cat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 12:47:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PGlpRM012679 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:47:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PGjMNX010613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 10:45:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PGj3f3086141; Tue, 25 May 2004 10:45:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts12.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PGiPf3085677 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 10:44:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.136.200]) by simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040525164419.OUAO15788.simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:44:19 -0400 Message-ID: <013f01c44277$6eb95e40$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <195.2a3502d4.2de4ce2b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lion in Winter DVD Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:43:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In a message dated 5/25/2004 9:47:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, > shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca writes: > > > Tornado? Wow, isn't this early in the year for that kind of nasty weather? > > Where do you live? > > > > Don't you watch the news? [Well, actually I can understand if you don't] > > The weather has been hammering the central states. And spring is tornado > season. Actually it's tornado season all year. > > I just hope no one was [is, will be] killed! > > Albert "I live in NC and we have them here too" Cat Gotcha! No haven't been catching the news at all lately. :-p I grew up in the Canadian prairies, tornado season for us was/is usually July/August, which is the hottest time of year there. I occasionally forget its actually warmer much earler most other places. (especially this year) :-) Take care and keep your radio/tv on. Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 12:49:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PGn8RM012689 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:49:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PGmTNX011101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 10:48:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PGmRf3089121; Tue, 25 May 2004 10:48:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80504.mail.yahoo.com (web80504.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4PGlIf3087980 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 10:47:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040525164709.97918.qmail@web80504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.104.228.236] by web80504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 25 May 2004 09:47:09 PDT Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:47:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405250909.i4P993f4013775@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Color in the late 1800s X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sheridan wrote: > Snooping about the internet, looking for something > else entirely, I stumbled > across this site: > > http://www.rickrack.com/antqfab.html > > Here is a very solid argument against the old saw > that in the 'old days' > people only had drab colors to choose from... Oh, now this is interesting...I recognize some of those "vintage" cottons from fat quarters I've purchased for my mother (she's a quilter) at Hancock's JoAnn's and Stone Mtn. and Daughter. In fact, I believe I used one of the prints (FB753) for a dress for one of my niece's American Girl dolls, and I got the fabric at my local Hancock's for about $2.99/yd. There is a vogue among quilters right now to incorporate vintage-style quilting cottons into quilt-top designs, and this vendor may be capitalizing on that. There is a very good book on printed cottons that has clear photographs of provenanced fabrics; unfortunately, it's at home and I'm at work, but I'll post the pertinent data later this afternoon/evening when I get back there. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 12:58:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PGwQRM012796 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:58:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PGuMNX011865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 10:56:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PGuIf3095725; Tue, 25 May 2004 10:56:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fed1rmmtao08.cox.net (fed1rmmtao08.cox.net [68.230.241.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PGuGf3095591 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 10:56:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mudsleidi@cox.net) Received: from smtp.west.cox.net ([172.18.180.53]) by fed1rmmtao08.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with SMTP id <20040525165502.BQDZ20159.fed1rmmtao08.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:55:02 -0400 From: To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:54:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20040525165502.BQDZ20159.fed1rmmtao08.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] test X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry for taking up bandwidth, just checking to see if my posts are making it to the list... Heidi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 13:10:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PHAaRM012889 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 13:10:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PH9pNX013210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 11:09:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PH9lf3007366; Tue, 25 May 2004 11:09:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PH95f3006859 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 11:09:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 185CA1D066 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:09:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p089.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.91]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1C89DD4B0 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:09:03 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:09:13 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- If anything, it is a graphic display of why Puritans and others had to make such laws to keep everyone in line because it was their survival at stake. Cindy Abel ___________________ >From my understanding, many of the laws were not made for survival's sake. Many were made for religion's sake. At least in the Puritan colonial towns. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 13:19:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PHJoRM012952 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 13:19:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PHI0NX014223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 11:18:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PHHuf3014411; Tue, 25 May 2004 11:17:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PHHrf3014378 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 11:17:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04CE618F06 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:12:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p089.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.91]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id F3AD9D4AA for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:12:34 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Troy - I have an idea Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:12:45 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- >From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" >those who have seen it, did they use any of the Greek costuming > >conventions such as leggings or trousers on the Trojans to show their >foreigness? Greek had the trousers? I only remember the Roman horsemen in later period and Phrygians having the trousers that early. Guess I need to go back to the books. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 13:22:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PHMcRM012967 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 13:22:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PHKjNX014504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 11:20:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PHKff3016607; Tue, 25 May 2004 11:20:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f28.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PHIqf3015113 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 11:18:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 25 May 2004 10:18:46 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.222 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:18:46 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.222] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:18:46 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 May 2004 17:18:46.0671 (UTC) FILETIME=[566F01F0:01C4427C] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: A history of the clog X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: >Subject: [h-cost] A history of the clog > > To: Slighe > > Subject: [slighe] A history of the clog >portion of an article on clogs >Inverness Courier, Oct. 17, 1911, p. 3d. > "The modern clog owes its existence to the Flemish weavers... I am speechless... Marc _________________________________________________________________ Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 13:35:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PHZURM013009 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 13:35:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PHYhNX016130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 11:34:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PHYFf3028059; Tue, 25 May 2004 11:34:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PHWBf3026055 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 11:32:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.35.202]) by smail3.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 21661205 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 10:19:18 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:32:13 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c4427e$37a836e0$6401a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <20040525164709.97918.qmail@web80504.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Antique fabrics X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn-- I recognize that fabric, too, and others on the web site. It doesn't mean she isn't selling old fabrics, though, since lots of companies print reproductions just for quilters. Why anyone would want the old fabric when you can get newer AND cheaper, I don't know... > Kim > http://www.rickrack.com/antqfab.html Oh, now this is interesting...I recognize some of those "vintage" cottons from fat quarters I've purchased for my mother (she's a quilter) at Hancock's JoAnn's and Stone Mtn. and Daughter. In fact, I believe I used one of the prints (FB753) for a dress for one of my niece's American Girl dolls, and I got the fabric at my local Hancock's for about $2.99/yd. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 13:58:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PHwrRM013102 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 13:58:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PHw0NX018719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 11:58:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PHvwf3048198; Tue, 25 May 2004 11:57:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PHknf3038571 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 11:46:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f3c.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.60]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8E32447FEFA for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:46:41 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001101c44280$457ddca0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:46:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] waistband for skirts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Just wanted to ask some of you renaissance reenactors. When you have a seperate skirt and bodice and your skirt is going to have a curved waistline (lower in the front and back than the hips) do you sometimes make shaped waistbands? Bjarne who is considering doing that to the danish court dress. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 14:04:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PI4WRM013131 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 14:04:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PI2jNX019288 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 12:02:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PI2if3052288; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:02:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PI1cf3051340 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:01:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.63.2c852bfb (24895) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 14:01:28 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <63.2c852bfb.2de4e3f6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:01:26 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Troy - I have an idea To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/25/2004 1:19:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, otsisto@socket.net writes: > Greek had the trousers? I once had a history teacher tell us the women in ancient Greece wore pants. This confused me and I did a little research. [This was decades ago so don't ask me where this came from] Apparently, the Persians wore pants and the Greeks, who looked down on everyone, thought the Persians as effeminate and sissies [don't ask me why]. It seems that Bacchus is sometimes depicted in Persian pants....being the party animal Bacchus was and apparently "light on his feet". So Pants were effeminate. So my teacher deduced that the women in Greece wore pants....uh...I guess. Save us all from school! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 14:09:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PI9DRM013153 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 14:09:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PI8RNX019846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 12:08:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PI8Qf3056836; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:08:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PI8Mf3056782 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:08:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA26857 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 13:08:20 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: colonial house Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:08:20 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Puritans(and most other religious belief systems)probably saw religion/societal survival as one and the same as there was no separation of "church" and state. Laws on proper dress were those that the Puritains brought from England and certainly really weren't much different than England's. Seeing "Colonial House" really brings it home while such laws were necessary--silks, satins, lace and velvet weren't practical wear even for the Sabbath if you really couldn't afford them anyway. And note where Colonial House got it pretty right--the only person in then expensive black is the new "CEO"--although why he wasn't furnished an "everyday" suit is beyond me. Cindy Abel >From my understanding, many of the laws were not made for survival's sake. Many were made for religion's sake. At least in the Puritan colonial towns. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 14:19:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PIJWRM013203 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 14:19:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PIHVNX020849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 12:17:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PIHSf3064246; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:17:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PIHPf3064115 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:17:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 25 May 2004 13:17:16 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Beta Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:16:59 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tornados X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just hope no one was [is, will be] killed! Albert "I live in NC and we have them here too" Cat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am on the Kansas side of the greater Kansas City area. We were lucky with this storm, although I believe there was a fatality along this same front in Illinois. May-July tends to be our worst tornado weather and about 3 weeks ago was the 1 year anniversary of an F4 in this area. Worst problems this year have been the flash flooding from all the rain. And despite the Wizard of Oz, Oklahoma has had it a lot worse than we have the last several years. Obligatory costume content; we tend to take shelter in my sewing room in the basement as it has a tv for watching the weather reports, we can shut the cats in with us (and since they don't normally get to go into the sewing room they are usually distracted enough to entertain themselves through the watch) and the door to the *real* storm shelter (stone room under the stone front porch) is in the sewing room so if we get a serious report of a twister coming our way we can duck in there. I also figure flying fabric debris is better than some other types of debris :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 14:23:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PINWRM013222 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 14:23:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PIMLNX021355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 12:22:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PIMEf3068104; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:22:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14002.mail.yahoo.com (web14002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4PIMAf3068038 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:22:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040525182208.71042.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.2.27.21] by web14002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:22:08 BST Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:22:08 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <63.2c852bfb.2de4e3f6@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Troy Movie- Greek trousers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, the ancient Greeks did quite a bit of trading with the coastal Celt-Iberians as did the Phoenicians. There are some examples of pottery showing men in skin tight trousers marked with stripes or checks.So I don't think Greeks wore trousers, but they knew people who did. But I haven't seen the movie yet, so I couldn't say if anyone had trousers in the movie. Catalina --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/25/2004 1:19:00 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > otsisto@socket.net writes: > > > Greek had the trousers? > ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 14:29:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PISwRM013240 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 14:29:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PISKNX021964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 12:28:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PIS2f3072932; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:28:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PIRaf3072621 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:27:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i4PIRZT02066.; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:27:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:27:35 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:27:06 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Troy - I have an idea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think Danielle is implying that the Greeks portrayed the *Trojans* as wearing trousers. >>> otsisto@socket.net 5/25/04 6:12:45 PM >>> -----Original Message----- >From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" >those who have seen it, did they use any of the Greek costuming > >conventions such as leggings or trousers on the Trojans to show their >foreigness? Greek had the trousers? I only remember the Roman horsemen in later period and Phrygians having the trousers that early. Guess I need to go back to the books. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 15:06:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PJ6RRM013463 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:06:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PJ5eNX025708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 13:05:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PJ5Sf3003671; Tue, 25 May 2004 13:05:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PJ5Qf3003641 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 13:05:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 22D2D5CC878; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:05:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0296.floodcity.net [198.93.212.42]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1370D5CC0B2 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:05:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B39860.F64EF70@floodcity.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:02:56 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Antique fabrics References: <000001c4427e$37a836e0$6401a8c0@kimathlon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know some people like to keep files books of old fabrics for dating and "provenance" purposes. I can't imagine it would be worth while sewing with old fabrics, since even a 20 year old cotton is to old to wear well, but maybe it is for collecting. Kitty kim baird wrote: > > Dawn-- > > I recognize that fabric, too, and others on the web site. It doesn't > mean she isn't selling old fabrics, though, since lots of companies > print reproductions just for quilters. > > Why anyone would want the old fabric when you can get newer AND cheaper, > I don't know... > > > > Kim > > http://www.rickrack.com/antqfab.html > Oh, now this is interesting...I recognize some of > those "vintage" cottons from fat quarters I've > purchased for my mother (she's a quilter) at Hancock's > JoAnn's and Stone Mtn. and Daughter. In fact, I > believe I used one of the prints (FB753) for a dress > for one of my niece's American Girl dolls, and I got > the fabric at my local Hancock's for about $2.99/yd. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 15:26:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PJQjRM013569 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:26:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PJPmNX027812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 13:25:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PJPif3020779; Tue, 25 May 2004 13:25:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PJPff3020673 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 13:25:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7E3A4264A for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 14:45:26 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40B39ECB.2090107@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:30:19 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Antique fabrics References: <000001c4427e$37a836e0$6401a8c0@kimathlon> <40B39860.F64EF70@floodcity.net> In-Reply-To: <40B39860.F64EF70@floodcity.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I know some people like to keep files books of old fabrics for dating > and "provenance" purposes. I can't imagine it would be worth while > sewing with old fabrics, since even a 20 year old cotton is to old to > wear well, but maybe it is for collecting. Kitty > >> >>Why anyone would want the old fabric when you can get newer AND cheaper, >>I don't know... If you are doing restoration then original fabrics are highly desireable for repairs. I once knew a quilter who made quite a bit of money repairing and restoring antique quilts, she was always looking for any kind of old scraps that she would be able to use. The new fabric may look the same but it may have a different chemical content in the dye or the fiber treatment which causes it to handle differently and age differently than the older fabrics. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 15:34:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PJYmRM013598 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:34:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PJXLNX028581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 13:33:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PJXJf3026829; Tue, 25 May 2004 13:33:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PJXEf3026729 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 13:33:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F6B24264A for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 14:52:59 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40B3A090.6020806@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:37:52 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tornadoes and Colonial House (was: Lion in Winter DVD) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Kinsey wrote: > > And then last night's episode of Colonial House got interrupted by a > trip to the basement because of tornado sirens. Fortunately we didn't > loose power and the vcr kept right on taping :). Lucky you. On my side of town I spent a lot of time listening to "due to severe weather we are experiencing technical difficulties, please stand by", or having the volume drowned out by sirens which are pretty close to us. According to the radar I was tracking there were two storm cells with rotation that passed directly over our house. Whee. As far as I know they never developed into tornadoes. Colonial House: was anyone else glad to get a better look at all the doublets now that the cast has dressed up for the Company Man? Anyone want to comment on the "indian" costumes? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 16:14:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PKElRM013925 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:14:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PKE1NX003548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 14:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PKDvf3061010; Tue, 25 May 2004 14:13:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PKDpf3060942 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 14:13:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-93-172.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.172]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4PKDaVh009751 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 13:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040525130801.02296a40@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:09:15 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Antique fabrics In-Reply-To: <000001c4427e$37a836e0$6401a8c0@kimathlon> References: <20040525164709.97918.qmail@web80504.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I recognize that fabric, too, and others on the web site. It doesn't >mean she isn't selling old fabrics, though, since lots of companies >print reproductions just for quilters. > >Why anyone would want the old fabric when you can get newer AND cheaper, >I don't know... It's the same reason doll makers rip up antique garments (curse, swear) to clothe their dolls - lack of imagination and lack of resources. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 16:45:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PKjeRM014090 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:45:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PKhmNX006790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 14:43:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PKhjf3086027; Tue, 25 May 2004 14:43:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PKhXf3085915 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 14:43:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 14BFD5CC791; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (webmail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.62]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DF2B55CC729 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:43:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 198.93.211.25 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1610.198.93.211.25.1085517805.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Antique fabrics From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.211.25 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.08 [en] (Win98; I) In-Reply-To: <40B39ECB.2090107@reddawn.net> References: <000001c4427e$37a836e0$6401a8c0@kimathlon> <40B39860.F64EF70@floodcity.net> <40B39ECB.2090107@reddawn.net> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >> I know some people like to keep files books of old fabrics for dating >> and "provenance" purposes. I can't imagine it would be worth while >> sewing with old fabrics, since even a 20 year old cotton is to old to >> wear well, but maybe it is for collecting. Kitty >> > > If you are doing restoration then original fabrics are highly desireable > for repairs. I once knew a quilter who made quite a bit of money > repairing and restoring antique quilts, she was always looking for any > kind of old scraps that she would be able to use. The new fabric may > look the same but it may have a different chemical content in the dye or > > the fiber treatment which causes it to handle differently and age > differently than the older fabrics. > > > Dawn Ooops, I knew that. sorry. and don't forget the Biblical maxim, don't put new patches on old fabric for it will make the hole bigger. Use old patches on old fabric. so how do I go about finding old fabric to match a Sunbonnet sue quilt that was made for my hubby before he was born, (get it? the friend who made it was certain he would be a girl) LOL Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 16:49:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PKn0RM014102 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:49:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PKmGNX007399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 14:48:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PKmFf3089906; Tue, 25 May 2004 14:48:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PKlNf3088957 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 14:47:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id D53875CC791; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:47:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (webmail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.62]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B05185CC742 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:47:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 198.93.211.25 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1618.198.93.211.25.1085518046.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Antique fabrics From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.211.25 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.08 [en] (Win98; I) X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>I recognize that fabric, too, and others on the web site. It doesn't >> mean she isn't selling old fabrics, though, since lots of companies >> print reproductions just for quilters. >> >>Why anyone would want the old fabric when you can get newer AND >> cheaper, I don't know... > > It's the same reason doll makers rip up antique garments (curse, swear) > to clothe their dolls - lack of imagination and lack of resources. > > Well, lets be fair and admit that sometimes a person in need of income can get a better return on the doll clothed in antique fabric than on the antique garment as a whole. which is a sad but true fact of life. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 17:03:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PL3oRM014129 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:03:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PL1SNX008925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 15:01:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PL1Of3001017; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:01:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fed1rmmtao05.cox.net (fed1rmmtao05.cox.net [68.230.241.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PL1Jf3000850 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:01:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mudsleidi@cox.net) Received: from smtp.west.cox.net ([172.18.180.53]) by fed1rmmtao05.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with SMTP id <20040525165510.BTHV20553.fed1rmmtao05.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:55:10 -0400 From: To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:51:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20040525165510.BTHV20553.fed1rmmtao05.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] test X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry for taking up bandwidth, just checking to see if my posts are making it to the list... Heidi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 17:09:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PL9qRM014145 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:09:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PL9ENX009767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 15:09:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PL9Bf3007348; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:09:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PL98f3007304 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:09:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-91-94.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.91.94]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4PL8lVd002735 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 14:09:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040525140905.01ce2820@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:09:19 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Antique fabrics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>>Why anyone would want the old fabric when you can get newer AND >>> cheaper, I don't know... >> >> It's the same reason doll makers rip up antique garments (curse, swear) >> to clothe their dolls - lack of imagination and lack of resources. > >Well, lets be fair and admit that sometimes a person in need of income can >get a better return on the doll clothed in antique fabric than on the >antique garment as a whole. which is a sad but true fact of life. Kitty I've was homeless and living out of my truck for a while, but I've never been that poor or hungry. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 17:23:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PLNDRM014205 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:23:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PLLGNX010968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 15:21:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PLLDf3017096; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:21:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PLKgf3016715 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:20:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F96A3D80 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:20:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p450.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.196]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 10610D4B2 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:20:40 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:20:51 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <195.2a3502d4.2de4ce2b@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT weather was: Lion in Winter DVD X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yesterday a tornado touched down in Linn, MO which is north of me. We got hit pretty hard last night through this morning into the afternoon with thunderstorms. My back yard is lowest in the neighborhood so now I have a bog working it's way towards a Florida style swamp. :P We're suppose to get a break Wed. and it starts up again Thurs. to Sat. Well as they say, we live in the state of misery, right next to the state of ill noise. :) De -----Original Message----- In a message dated 5/25/2004 9:47:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca writes: > Tornado? Wow, isn't this early in the year for that kind of nasty weather? > Where do you live? > Don't you watch the news? [Well, actually I can understand if you don't] The weather has been hammering the central states. And spring is tornado season. Actually it's tornado season all year. I just hope no one was [is, will be] killed! Albert "I live in NC and we have them here too" Cat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 17:32:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PLW5RM014241 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:32:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PLV5NX011966 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 15:31:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PLV4f3025264; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:31:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PLUtf3025138 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:30:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43B604264A for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:50:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40B3BC27.3050107@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:35:35 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Antique fabrics References: <000001c4427e$37a836e0$6401a8c0@kimathlon> <40B39860.F64EF70@floodcity.net> <40B39ECB.2090107@reddawn.net> <1610.198.93.211.25.1085517805.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> In-Reply-To: <1610.198.93.211.25.1085517805.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO basyefelton@floodcity.net wrote: > Ooops, I knew that. sorry. and don't forget the Biblical maxim, don't > put new patches on old fabric for it will make the hole bigger. Use old > patches on old fabric. so how do I go about finding old fabric to match > a Sunbonnet sue quilt that was made for my hubby before he was born, (get > it? the friend who made it was certain he would be a girl) > Look in thrift shops, flea markets, and junk shops for incomplete quilt blocks. You will find them at quilt shows, and I would bet on Ebay. Those blocks never had a chance to be quilts, and their best use right now is in preserving the quilts that did get finished. You may not find the exact fabric, but you can make repairs with one that is similar in color. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 17:36:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PLaIRM014255 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:36:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PLZiNX012525 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 15:35:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PLZhf3029162; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:35:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PLZZf3029066 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:35:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA24940 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:35:33 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:35:33 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <40B3A090.6020806@reddawn.net> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Colonial House(Tornados and Hurricanes) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am in Omaha NE, but it kind of irks me that about the only time this state makes national news, it is when a tornado strikes or there is some kind of multi-murder or child/wife abuse case. It does make people think all we have are tornados to keep life exciting. On Colonial House, because the participants were set down in Maine, I'm glad they didn't experience hurricanes that can and do strike the East Coast. I do think that the people were shorted on wardrobe from what I've seen onscreen--wouldn't there have been more shifts and shirts provided? Some of the single and married men seem to have worn the same shirt throughout. Yesterday evening's installments of CH also gave the impression that the new governor and his wife certainly enjoyed their new status and the governor/lay preacher did considerable standing about and pouting when the company "CEO" kind of took over things. I wonder if this was more staged for the cameras as I can't believe that the training at Plimouth Plantation didn't include training in hunting down edible roots, nuts, and berries as well as clam digging, fishing, and perhaps setting snares and traps for smaller wildlife since firearms of the day were very inaccurate and airbourne food sources weren't as abundant in 2003 as they were in 1628 where one could just aim at the sky when flocks of birds were in flight and be almost sure to bring down something for dinner. And where did the 20 yds(wasn't fabric measured in ells then)of good red wool come from? Were the colonists supposed to use it for trade, did they have it all along, or did it come with the second group of settlers or Jack, the "CEO"? I would have been too tempted to turn it into clothing or blankets. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 17:56:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PLuFRM014365 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:56:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PLtWNX014436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 15:55:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PLtTf3044598; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:55:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PLtOf4044548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:55:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-244.sonic.net [209.148.112.244]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4PLtKnK022548 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 14:55:22 -0700 Message-ID: <40B3C1DE.1090008@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:59:58 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Antique fabrics References: <4.1.20040525140905.01ce2820@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.1.20040525140905.01ce2820@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I usually use antique fabrics to restore antique clothes--replace waistbands etc. I get a better match that way and less stress on the original fabric. I have a fair amount of antique and vintage material from bags of scraps the original owners never got around to using, most of which was bought at estate auctions. Should I ever need more, this kind of thing turns up often on ebay. Thoug, I'd bid for a bag lot rather than individually listed little bits of stuff, also often seen on ebay. I almost always use antique lace, lengths of embroidery, and embroidered fabric to trim reproduction garments. You can get antique and vintage trims that just aren't available any more, or at least are very hard to find. If you want something like handmade bobbin lace (and don't have time or skills to make it, and want something different from a very small selection imported from third-world countries) antique trimming is a great way to go. You can also get lace collars and cuffs, shaped flounces for ballgown necklines, eyelet petticoat flounces, lingerie yokes, and things like shaped "tablier" trimmings (the last from the turn of the century). You can buy hand-crocheted and tatted trimmings from the mid 20th century that look older. There is quite a lot of trimming available that has already been taken off old garments, either by original owners who planned to recycle it someday or by vintage dealers from otherwise unrestorable garments. Often lace survives much better than the silk it was sewn to. When I used to buy estate auction box lots I took the good trim off all the garments with rotten fabric. Though I wouldn't buy a single garment just for the trim--it's usually more economical to just buy the trim. There is even a surprising amount of never-used trim available. I don't usually cut up garments, but I do cut up hand-embroidered tablecloths and other linens for clothes if the patterns are small enough for a human body and distributed in a usable way. A lot of very nice ones were home-embroidered (or in some cases, imported) in the mid 20th century, but look great for Victorian and Edwardian clothes. Again, quite a lot of this stuff is sold on ebay. I sometimes baste on lace trim, and always fancy collars and cuffs. Then I can take them off for separate hand washing and put on different ones when I feel like it. When I use vintage hand-embroidered fabric or machine sew lace to modern fabric, and the garment is washable, I hand wash the whole garment. Fran Grimble Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 18:01:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PM12RM014383 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:01:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PM0PNX014961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 16:00:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PM0Nf3048498; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:00:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from dr-nick.w3.org (dr-nick.w3.org [18.29.1.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PM0Gf4048420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:00:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jeanine@woollycat.net) Received: from [18.23.10.130] (helo=woollycat.net) by dr-nick.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.31) id 1BSjy3-0000IB-KU for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:00:15 -0400 Message-ID: <40B3C2EF.2010006@woollycat.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 18:04:31 -0400 From: Jeanine Swick User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Carpatina blouses X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The web site is: www.carpatina.com Hope this helps you. They are located in Nashua, NH. Jeanine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 18:04:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PM48RM014390 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:04:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PM2CNX015188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 16:02:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PM2Af3049939; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:02:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PM1Of3049337 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:01:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 613EA1D0A1 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:01:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p450.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.196]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1EF04D4AA for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:01:23 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Seed Pearls Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:01:34 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <40b2e9df.14db.0@pcez.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Shipwreck beads http://www.shipwreckbeads.com look under "natural materials" Have not dealt with these people so I can not say how good they are. Fire Mountain Gems and beads http://www.firemountaingems.com or call 1(800)355-2137 for free catalog. Their pretty good at getting your order to you. Beads Forever, LLC http://www.beadsforever.com/product_pages/pearl_fresh_water_00.htm Wholesalers http://www.modebeads.com/ http://www.nationalsupply.com http://ballybead.com Have not dealt with these people but I thought you might want to comparison shop. De Who was ten when she started beading. -----Original Message----- Greetings one and all, Can anyone tell me where a good source for seed pearls would be? I need them for my beaded embroidery and for garb. Thanks for any assistance. Roscelin ------------------- http://www.pcez.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 18:13:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PMDkRM014484 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:13:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PMBtNX016429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 16:11:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PMBbf3057816; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:11:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PMBSf3057689 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:11:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0787C1CE63 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:11:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p450.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.196]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E1ECBD3D1 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:11:26 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tornadoes and Colonial House (was: Lion in Winter DVD) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:11:38 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <40B3A090.6020806@reddawn.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- Catherine Kinsey wrote: Anyone want to comment on the "indian" costumes? Dawn Okay, now I'm starting to wish I could get this. I would love to see their rendition of native garments. By the way if you are ever at a powwow, especially west of the Mississippi the dance outfits are referred to as outfits, garments, clothing or garb, never costumes. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 18:18:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PMIqRM014517 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:18:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PMGpNX016891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 16:16:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PMGmf3062068; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:16:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PMGif3061997 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:16:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF4E818ED1 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:16:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p450.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.196]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B3B3CD3D1 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:16:42 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Troy - I have an idea. Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:16:54 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <1e9.213df6a6.2de49d39@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- > They are all crap from an historically correct point of view > but when was that ever the point? > Uh....no they are not. Many films may not be super accurate, but they have respect for the period. Even GWTW. _______________________ The director of GWTW wanted as authentic as possible with the costumes. The Violet dress is based on a fashion plate of the era as well as the fabric print is from that time period. Though they did have to paint the violet bunches on themselves since they couldn't get the actual printed fabric. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 18:31:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PMVIRM014584 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:31:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PMTPNX018327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 16:29:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PMTJf3072097; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:29:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80508.mail.yahoo.com (web80508.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4PMTFf3072000 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:29:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040525222910.65675.qmail@web80508.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.104.228.236] by web80508.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:29:10 PDT Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:29:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405252137.i4PLbRf4030568@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Antique fabrics X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kitty wrote: <> LOL. I have a quilt like that--it was made by my great-grandmother in 1930 for her first grandchild, in lovely shades of lavender,. Needless to say, my dad never used it. My mother has "Sunbonnet Sue" right now, as she just copied it for my niece, but in shades of pink (my niece's favorite color). Contact your local quilt guild to find out the proper way to have repairs made to your quilt. Those ladies (and gentlemen) are a mountain of information, and love seeing quilts with a story. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 18:42:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PMgTRM014675 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:42:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PMfsNX019425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 16:41:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PMfRf3081055; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:41:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf15.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf15.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.215]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PMfBf3080861 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:41:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joedr@charter.net) Received: from charter.net (66.169.191.177.ts46v-16.otnh2.ftwrth.tx.charter.com [66.169.191.177]) by mxsf15.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4PMedSN085042 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B3CB68.49D5EE73@charter.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:40:40 -0500 From: Joe Robertson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Brat Construction X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Anyone have information on brat construction from the early 16th century? I am looking for references to materials, shape, size and decoration. The fellow (or lady) wearing it will be upper classed gaelic speaking Scots. What I've seen so far points to rectangular, fringed and multicolored wool. Also, any possibility they might have lined it on one side with something else, perhaps contrasting in color? I have thought about trying that, once I get the brat's dimensions right. Joe _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 19:31:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PNVlRM014988 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:31:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PNSBNX023085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 17:28:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PNS5f3012123; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:28:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from whowhere.com (in02-fes2.whowhere.com [209.202.220.219]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4PNS0f3012057 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:28:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@eudoramail.com) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by whowhere.com; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:27:45 -0000 To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:27:45 0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Troy - I have an idea X-Sender-Ip: 130.88.96.65 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you. That is exactly what I was saying. It was one of the symbols used to represent someone foreign to the Greeks, since they didn't wear them. For example, Trojans or Persians, or even Amazons sometimes. Cheers, Danielle --------- Original Message --------- DATE: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:27:06 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Cc: >I think Danielle is implying that the Greeks portrayed the *Trojans* as >wearing trousers. > >>>> otsisto@socket.net 5/25/04 6:12:45 PM >>> > > >-----Original Message----- > >>From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" > >>those who have seen it, did they use any of the Greek costuming >> >conventions such as leggings or trousers on the Trojans to show >their >>foreigness? > >Greek had the trousers? I only remember the Roman horsemen in later >period >and Phrygians having the trousers that early. Guess I need to go back >to the >books. > >De > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >______________________________________________________________________ >This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. >For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email >______________________________________________________________________ > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 19:38:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4PNcjRM015059 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:38:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PNaYNX023685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 17:36:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PNaVf3017236; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:36:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PNaTf3017223 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:36:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 8263E5CC791; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (webmail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.62]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5A3755CC71F for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 198.93.213.9 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:36:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1708.198.93.213.9.1085528192.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:36:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Antique fabrics From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.213.9 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.08 [en] (Win98; I) In-Reply-To: <4.1.20040525140905.01ce2820@mail.frys.com> References: <4.1.20040525140905.01ce2820@mail.frys.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>>>Why anyone would want the old fabric when you can get newer AND >>>> cheaper, I don't know... >>> >>> It's the same reason doll makers rip up antique garments (curse, >>> swear) to clothe their dolls - lack of imagination and lack of >>> resources. >> >>Well, lets be fair and admit that sometimes a person in need of income >> can get a better return on the doll clothed in antique fabric than on >> the antique garment as a whole. which is a sad but true fact of life. >> Kitty > > I've was homeless and living out of my truck for a while, but I've never > been that poor or hungry. > yes, isn't it sad that everyone doesn't have the same priorities as we do. LOL I guess I'm just saying that it isn't possible to rescue everything, and it isn't possible to judge what motivates another person. One person values the dolls and wants them to have clothes from their own era, someone else values the old clothes themselves and doesn't want to see them cut up. and then there is my husband who would use an old item of clothing as a grease rag while he repairs an antique engine and gets it running like a top. I wish I could do it all sometimes. just off the top of my head, having talked with people who take other old things and remake them. some of them will not cut up something in good repair, (old quilts come to mind) but WOULD go ahead and cut up a nearly worn quilt with a large stain and no provenance. you might ask the person doing doll clothes what she bases her choices on, you might find her more likeminded than you think. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 20:00:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q00JRM015204 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:00:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PNxfNX025386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 17:59:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PNxcf3030674; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:59:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.dandy.net (smtp.dandy.net [66.159.110.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4PNxZf4030626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:59:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net ([209.128.242.30]) by smtp.dandy.net for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:02:23 -0400 Message-ID: <40B3DD99.6020309@dandy.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:58:17 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <12e.42250772.2dde19a7@cs.com> <001701c43e79$f46d1150$ee65c345@39jz301> <40ACDD56.2020005@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <40ACDD56.2020005@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Brownists and Anabaptists and Adamites, oh my! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. I know, an Anabaptist playing a Brownist! BTW, There are a number of historians that believe that the Mayflower wasn't "blown" off course, but deliberately sailed quite north of the area originally allowed for settlement (most of the Eastern Seaboard of the US still being called "Virginia" at the time) so that their charters and agreements (and subsequently, their governance, or the convenience thereof) were altered. This accounts for the need for the "Mayflower Compact", since, if they had remained in the area already designated for them, they would have remained under the control of the Crown. Obligatory clothing content: I was glad to see that the new fellow (the factor from the Company) was well dressed, his breeches and doublet didn't gap (he had points or hooks, perhaps?), and that he didn't bend to the culture of the group to appear slovenly (he even went clamming in his doublet and breeches) and still managed to remain basically cleanly. I notice that he was also ready to work, and when he did, he stripped to his shirt but still retained his band (it appeared attached to his shirt, perhaps not the best idea) and dressed properly afterward. Also, before leaving, the Governor appeared to have a very nice pair of knitted hose. At least from what I have seen, the quality of the clothing construction and patterns are correct. There is one issue, however. The men's breeches seem to have a gusset and tiestrings at the back center top seam. I know here in the US, the clothing merchants use those gussets to allow fit so that they don't have to make so many different size waists. You never (hardly) see this when someone is wearing a coat/doublet, but it isn't something that I have even seen on either an extant pair of breeches or a painting/engraving. Has anyone ever seen such a thing, or is it a modern reenactorism? Cheers, Mike T. Sue Clemenger wrote: > Is anyone besides me getting a twisted giggle out of the idea of a > *Baptist* minister portraying a Puritan? Or is that too obscure a > historical bit? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 20:09:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q09TRM015236 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:09:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q08uNX025930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 18:08:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q08of3036019; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:08:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q08mf3035955 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:08:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.103.46a90301 (18251) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:08:36 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <103.46a90301.2de53a04@aol.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:08:36 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Troy - I have an idea To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/25/2004 7:28:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, dannw@eudoramail.com writes: > Thank you. That is exactly what I was saying. It was one of the symbols > used to represent someone foreign to the Greeks, since they didn't wear them. > For example, Trojans or Persians, or even Amazons sometimes. > > But having just come back from seeing "Troy"....no one wears trousers. The costumes are lovely and full of fun details. The film is sorta OK. The actual Horse sequence....from it's discovery to the sacking.... is the best part. Brad is actually quite good though he doesn't look the part to me. Sean Bean as Odysseus was my favorite character. Maybe he'll do the sequel: "Troy II: the Odyssey".....because they killed everyone else off! Who needs Clytemnestra? Aeneas is in it for about 2 tenths of a second so maybe it will be "Troy II: Carthage". And then there's the previews. "Arthur.....the truth behind the myth" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! You should see what they are wearing! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 20:23:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q0NhRM015348 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:23:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0NCNX026927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 18:23:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0N9f3044091; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:23:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0N7f4044076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:23:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0RBfc005070 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:27:11 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i4Q0R9Jf005064 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:27:09 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Troy - I have an idea Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:27:09 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <63.2c852bfb.2de4e3f6@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <63.2c852bfb.2de4e3f6@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405252027.09456.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 25 May 2004 02:01 pm, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/25/2004 1:19:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, [snip] > I once had a history teacher tell us the women in ancient Greece wore > pants. > > This confused me and I did a little research. [This was decades ago so > don't ask me where this came from] Apparently, the Persians wore pants and > the Greeks, who looked down on everyone, thought the Persians as effeminate > and sissies [don't ask me why]. It seems that Bacchus is sometimes depicted > in Persian pants....being the party animal Bacchus was and apparently > "light on his feet". So Pants were effeminate. So my teacher deduced that > the women in Greece wore pants....uh...I guess. Can't think of any place else she got the idea--I've never seen any ancient Greek art depicting women--or men, for that matter--in anything pant-like. > -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 20:33:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q0XERM015403 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:33:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0WZNX027662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 18:32:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0WXf3049298; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:32:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0WUf4049275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:32:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0aYfc005790 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:36:35 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i4Q0aQmQ005784 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:36:26 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Troy - I have an idea. Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:36:25 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <20040524184124.69647.qmail@web41312.mail.yahoo.com> <023b01c441e9$7f3b88d0$b4159b04@HELENPINTO> In-Reply-To: <023b01c441e9$7f3b88d0$b4159b04@HELENPINTO> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405252036.25684.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 24 May 2004 07:47 pm, Helen Pinto wrote: > I was prepared to dislike it; I actually enjoyed it. I saw it on a very > big screen, and it was close enough to really see the weaving. Those ikat > bands on the edge of Priam's robe were incredible. (Non-costume-related: > The individual combats were seriously cool.) The fighting scenes *were* cool. The casting was, in my judgment, excellent. Though I was a bit annoyed at the vast extent to which they costumed both Trojans and Greeks from the local Indian bazaar.... -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 20:42:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q0gLRM015454 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:42:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0fjNX028292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 18:41:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0fhf3054007; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:41:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0fef4053990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:41:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0jhfc006482 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:45:43 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i4Q0jeuJ006474 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:45:40 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:45:40 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <6b.2a2d693f.2de0cd26@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <6b.2a2d693f.2de0cd26@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405252045.40254.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 22 May 2004 11:35 am, Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/22/04 10:05:47 AM Central Daylight Time, > Lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com writes: [snip] > One that annoys me is the idea that all women at the time were wasp waisted > and petite Winona Ryder clones. A study of any good collection of 19th > century fashion will show a widely varied range of sizes, with many of them > being for more buxom women. Obviously the overall silhouette of their > figures would (generally speaking) be different from ours simply through > the training of their bodies to corsetry, but they were not all minute and > wilting by any means. Heck, a survey of 19th c. garments being sold on the Internet could tell a person that. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 20:49:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q0n9RM015480 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:49:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0mXNX028711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 18:48:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0mWf3057589; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:48:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.ttlc.net (mail.ttlc.net [66.94.32.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0mTf3057554 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:48:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from DrJksnSgy@ttlc.net) Received: from ttlc.net [140.186.41.179] by mail.ttlc.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.07) id A95D76140124; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:48:29 -0400 Message-ID: <40B3E958.1090401@ttlc.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:48:24 -0400 From: Dot + Lee Fisher User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A different view of Colonial house , NH Man goes Colonial: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO New Hampshire Public Radio just ran an interview of one of the particapants on "Colonial House" . It shows a very different and a behind the scenes view of the program. It can be heard at New Hampshire Public Radio You seem to need to click on the current interview of "The Front Porch" then . NH Man goes Colonial: . The interviews appear to say on the website for 2 weeks. Good luck bringing it up. Last January I heard from an archiologist who was called in in the making of the show. He wasn't indicating that the show would be great, but he said that when he went in at the end to evaluate how the group did, that he felt he had walked into the 17th century. This was at the end of the annual talk on the dig the Historic society does on a 17th century site. Dot _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 20:52:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q0qHRM015492 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:52:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0pXNX028917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 18:51:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0pSf3059145; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:51:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound3.mail.tds.net (outbound3.mail.tds.net [216.170.230.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0p7f3058922 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:51:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bobd2@tellink.net) Received: from host (h69-21-248-108.69-21.unk.tds.net [69.21.248.108]) by outbound3.mail.tds.net (8.12.10/8.12.2) with SMTP id i4Q0ovoR026370 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:51:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <002101c442bb$5b6cefc0$0201a8c0@domain> From: "bobd2" To: References: <200405250143.i4P1hcf4015258@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:49:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:Garb question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a more than vague memory that it's called a waffenrok (wafenrok, waffennruck? I'm really not sure of the spelling) I remember a site that had pictures of the DH in it, and yes it looks marvelously masculine and truly wonderful. The earlier version did look vaguely like a sundress. Bob Dorr (emerging, slightly, from lurking mode) > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:18:46 -0500 > From: "otsisto" > Subject: [h-cost] FW: [standing_stones] Garb question > To: "Historic Costume" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I know what he's talking about but don't know the name either. > Also, I can not find the site I had on how to make one of these. > > De > -----Original Message----- > Hi all, > > I'm trying to put together a late pd. German look, but I don't know > what the actual name for the garb I want is. It is refered to as > the "German man dress" it's like a vest with a pleated skirt. Does > anyone know the actual name of this beast? I know if you do one > poorly it winds up looking like a sun dress. > > Thanks for your help > > Kylan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 20:54:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q0sBRM015499 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:54:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0rdNX029025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 18:53:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0rcf3060482; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:53:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0qdf4059884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:52:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4Q0qG2x008322 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:52:16 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B3EA56.7050301@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:52:38 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <103.46a90301.2de53a04@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <103.46a90301.2de53a04@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy - I have an idea X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > And then there's the previews. "Arthur.....the truth behind the myth" > > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! You should see what they are wearing! http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/kingarthur.html -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "The mind games, the isolation, the accusations about being unfaithful, the obsessive keeping track, preventing the other person from getting a job... We're in an abusive relationship with the Bush Administration!" -- Sparrow to Stuart, DTWOF _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 20:55:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q0tCRM015503 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:55:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0rTNX029008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 18:53:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0rSf3060370; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:53:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound3.mail.tds.net (outbound3.mail.tds.net [216.170.230.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0qcf3059875 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:52:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bobd2@tellink.net) Received: from host (h69-21-248-108.69-21.unk.tds.net [69.21.248.108]) by outbound3.mail.tds.net (8.12.10/8.12.2) with SMTP id i4Q0qZoR026899 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:52:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <002501c442bb$948554a0$0201a8c0@domain> From: "bobd2" To: References: <200405250143.i4P1hcf4015258@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:51:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 373 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just saw the response to the Waffenrock question that had much more detail. Sorry about that, I really need to read the whole digest before posting. Bob Dorr _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 20:59:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q0x6RM015519 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:59:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0wZNX029358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 18:58:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0wNf3062890; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:58:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q0wJf4062853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:58:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q12Nfc007665 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:02:23 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i4Q12L7n007663 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:02:21 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Troy - I have an idea. Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:02:21 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405252102.21243.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 24 May 2004 10:05 pm, Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: [snip] > I haven't seen the movie yet but have seen trailers and posters and I'm > glad to see your observations suggest that I am probably going in the right > direction with my thoughts on the matter. I took a class on art and the > Trojan war (we read the Illiad during of course) and I was pleased that the > movie includes both main types of shields displayed in Greek art about the > Trojan war. The shields were good and the swords and helmet styles not bad. > I was curious for those who have seen it, did they use any of > the Greek costuming conventions such as leggings or trousers on the Trojans > to show their foreigness? They didn't use trousers (thanks by the way--I was not aware that the Greeks showed Trojans in trousers in their art, and I was in fact curious about what the Trojans really wore). What they *did* do was establish a kind of color code. Most of the Trojans were shown in shades of indigo blue or white, and the ranking Greeks (when they weren't in armor) were shown in dark reddish colors. -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 21:02:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q12GRM015572 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:02:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q10UNX029457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 19:00:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q10Sf3064022; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:00:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4Q10Qf3063974 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:00:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from unicorn@surewest.net) Received: (s3-8813); Tue, 25 May 2004 17:58:40 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO Cyhiraeth) (69.4.130.33) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Tue, 25 May 2004 17:58:39 -0700 Message-ID: <000901c442bc$d11a1990$0a00a8c0@Cyhiraeth> From: "Joan Broneske" To: "Historical Costume" References: <103.46a90301.2de53a04@aol.com> <40B3EA56.7050301@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy - I have an idea Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 18:00:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-72 ip=69.4.130.33 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Since when does Guenevere run around in bondage leather? . /' // . // |\//7 /' " \ . . . | ( \ '._ | '._ ' '. ' / \'-'_---. ) ) . :.' | \ | . . . . ' . | | | \^ /_-': / / | | '\ .' / /| | \\ | \ \( ) // / \ | | // / L! ! // / Joan Broneske [_] L[_| unicorn@surewest.net "You always can tell who has the real power, when you know who you cannot offend" S.A.M. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 5:52 PM Subject: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy - I have an idea > AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > And then there's the previews. "Arthur.....the truth behind the myth" > > > > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! You should see what they are wearing! > > http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/kingarthur.html > > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > "The mind games, the isolation, the accusations about being unfaithful, > the obsessive keeping track, preventing the other person from getting a > job... We're in an abusive relationship with the Bush Administration!" > -- Sparrow to Stuart, DTWOF > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 21:10:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q1A9RM015627 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:10:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q18vNX029978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 19:08:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q18uf3068805; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:08:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q18pf3068714 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:08:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.12d.4201f725 (3924) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:08:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <12d.4201f725.2de5481a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:08:42 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy - I have an idea To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/25/04 8:00:50 PM Central Daylight Time, unicorn@surewest.net writes: Since when does Guenevere run around in bondage leather? I guess I'm just a freak when it comes to judging the quality of costuming in "period" films LOL. I am okay with films that have fantasy-based rather than reality-based costuming, as long as the costuming is *good*! Since I haven't seen King Arthur yet, I don't know how I'll ultimately end up feeling about it. But, for example, the costumes in "Mists of Avalon" ... very fantasy oriented, but they blended excellently with the movie itself, and they were just beautiful. The stuff in Van Helsing was just - IMHO - ugly, and therefore had no excuse for being LOL. It can be period accurate and not pretty to our modern eyes, or complete fantasy and beautiful, or period accurate AND beautiful ... but not fake and ugly! -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 21:10:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q1AfRM015630 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:10:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q15KNX029757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 19:05:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q15If3066685; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:05:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q15Df4066643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:05:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q19Jfc007876 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:09:19 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i4Q19JqJ007874 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:09:19 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:09:19 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <200405211719.AA24510634@thrednedlestrete.com> <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> In-Reply-To: <006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405252109.19603.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 22 May 2004 01:28 am, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: [snip] > Well I just weighed my Elizabethan underwear (corset, smock and petticoat) > and it weighs somewhere between 1 and 2 lbs. (bathroom scales aren't that > accurate for small measures) I'd expect Victorian Underwear would be a > similar weight, extra petticoats or a steel crinoline would maybe up to > double that, but 11 lbs is way too much, that's heavier than all but a few > new-born babies! Perhaps they meant to say that 11 lbs was the weight of all the clothes a woman wore--not just the underwear? -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 21:16:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q1GGRM015642 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:16:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1F7NX000457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 19:15:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1F1f3071975; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:15:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1Exf4071939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:14:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1J5fc007943 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:19:05 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i4Q1J56G007941 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:19:05 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:19:04 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <40B14342.5020809@dandy.net> <40B0FEDD.623.2A14C80@localhost> In-Reply-To: <40B0FEDD.623.2A14C80@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405252119.04883.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 23 May 2004 10:43 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > Children's bones are soft. Children in Tae Kwon-Do classes are not > > allowed to break boards with their hands due to developing bones. Excuse me....but it's not correct that children studying tae kwon do are not permitted to break boards with their hands. I studied tae kwan do for over 10 years (earned a black belt). The grandmaster who ran our school loved to teach children, and boasted of having earned his first degree black belt by the time he was 7. Anyway, at our school kids as young as 7 (there were a few who were younger, but I don't remember offhand whether I saw the younger ones break boards) did board breaks all the time. Granted, they used smaller boards. But they did hand breaks--in fact they were started out with hand breaks--and I never saw a child injured in the course of breaking a board. -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 21:18:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q1I2RM015645 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:18:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1GxNX000631 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 19:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1Gvf3072920; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:16:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound3.mail.tds.net (outbound3.mail.tds.net [216.170.230.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1Grf3072895 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:16:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bobd2@tellink.net) Received: from host (h69-21-248-108.69-21.unk.tds.net [69.21.248.108]) by outbound3.mail.tds.net (8.12.10/8.12.2) with SMTP id i4Q1GooR005238 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:16:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <003f01c442be$f65065a0$0201a8c0@domain> From: "bobd2" To: References: <200405260042.i4Q0gEf4054276@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:15:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 378 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also there's South Pacific Beads, in Vermont (naturally enough) http://www.beading.com/Default.asp There's a reason the owner calls me "PearlBoy" look for the Rice Krispies (that's what he calls them, in the mail catalogs) They're delightful, small, and a royal pain in the neck to get a needle through, but they look simply lovely added to anything. Also the mishapen large ones are perfect for doing rose shapes with pearls. Bob Dorr--horrifyingly inspired to cover something... anything... in pearls, tonight. > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:01:34 -0500 > From: "otsisto" > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Seed Pearls > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Shipwreck beads > http://www.shipwreckbeads.com > look under "natural materials" > Have not dealt with these people so I can not say how good they are. > > Fire Mountain Gems and beads > http://www.firemountaingems.com > or call 1(800)355-2137 for free catalog. Their pretty good at getting your > order to you. > > Beads Forever, LLC > http://www.beadsforever.com/product_pages/pearl_fresh_water_00.htm > Wholesalers > > http://www.modebeads.com/ > http://www.nationalsupply.com > http://ballybead.com > Have not dealt with these people but I thought you might want to comparison > shop. > > De > Who was ten when she started beading. > > -----Original Message----- > Greetings one and all, > > Can anyone tell me where a good source for seed pearls would be? > I need them for my beaded embroidery and for garb. > Thanks for any assistance. > > Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 21:19:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q1JHRM015654 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:19:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1IkNX000850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 19:18:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1Ikf3073996; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:18:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1Iff4073958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:18:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1Mkfc007996 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:22:47 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i4Q1MkxY007994 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:22:46 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Van Helsing Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:22:46 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405252122.46674.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 24 May 2004 04:28 pm, Kathy Hoover wrote: > Julie, > Do you remember the address of the site with the blouse with Carpatian > embroidery? I just Froogled it and came up empty. If it's the site I'm thinking of, Julie got the name slightly wrong. The site I'm thinking of called Carpatina and the URL is http://www.carpatina.com/ -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 21:24:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q1OZRM015671 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:24:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1NqNX001182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 19:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1Nnf3076509; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:23:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1Nkf3076450 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:23:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from 39jz301 ([69.195.101.32]) by fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040526012218.JPXZ63200.fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:22:18 -0400 Message-ID: <00ab01c442c0$137fc070$2065c345@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <103.46a90301.2de53a04@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Troy - I have an idea Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:23:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [69.195.101.32] using ID at Tue, 25 May 2004 21:22:18 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > The film is sorta OK. I quite enjoyed it. I liked the fact that they didn't completely change all the characters to suit Hollywood (despite them having to find a girlfriend for Achilles and have him die at the wrong time). > The actual Horse sequence....from it's discovery to the > sacking.... is the best part. Brad is actually quite good though he doesn't > look the part to me. Brad Pitt just annoys me, but he does do a good Achilles. He sulks in his tent very well. >Sean Bean as Odysseus was my favorite character. Yep. Liked Hector a lot, too. I got a kick out of the fact that Orlando Bloom ends up using a skill we've seen him use in another epic movie to great effect :-) > And then there's the previews. "Arthur.....the truth behind the myth" > > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! You should see what they are wearing! You mean "King Arthur does Gladiator?" Oh, and Guinevere as a blue-painted warrior chick. Still--at least it's not the same-old same-old... Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 21:26:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q1QpRM015681 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:26:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1P7NX001247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 19:25:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1P6f3077174; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:25:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1OUf3076804 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:24:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from 39jz301 ([69.195.101.32]) by fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040526012307.JQFB63200.fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:23:07 -0400 Message-ID: <00b301c442c0$30516050$2065c345@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040524184124.69647.qmail@web41312.mail.yahoo.com><023b01c441e9$7f3b88d0$b4159b04@HELENPINTO> <200405252036.25684.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Troy - I have an idea. Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:24:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [69.195.101.32] using ID at Tue, 25 May 2004 21:23:07 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > The fighting scenes *were* cool. The casting was, in my judgment, excellent. > Though I was a bit annoyed at the vast extent to which they costumed both > Trojans and Greeks from the local Indian bazaar.... In fact, I own one of Helen's pairs of earrings... Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 21:26:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q1QsRM015684 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:26:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1QMNX001378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 19:26:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1QLf3077887; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:26:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f33.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1P5f3077134 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:25:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:25:04 -0700 Received: from 129.244.96.45 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 26 May 2004 01:25:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.45] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:25:03 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 May 2004 01:25:04.0038 (UTC) FILETIME=[457FE460:01C442C0] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Tornadoes and Colonial House X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "otsisto" >Catherine Kinsey wrote: >>Anyone want to comment on the "indian" costumes? >Okay, now I'm starting to wish I could get this. I would love to see their >rendition of native garments. It's not -their- rendition. My impression has been that the Passamaquoddy (the local tribe) seemed to have come up with their own clothes. And I would be greatly surprised if the Wampanoag who came to visit took any advice on their traditional clothing :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 21:28:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q1SGRM015689 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:28:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1RjNX001526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 19:27:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1Rif3078761; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:27:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out005.verizon.net (out005pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.143]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1RXf3078654 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:27:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pandoraf@verizon.net) Received: from GAIDHEALACH ([4.62.16.122]) by out005.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040526012731.NVHK1603.out005.verizon.net@GAIDHEALACH> for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:27:31 -0500 From: "Pandora Nic 'Ille Phadraig" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Brat Construction Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 18:31:18 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <40B3CB68.49D5EE73@charter.net> X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out005.verizon.net from [4.62.16.122] at Tue, 25 May 2004 20:27:31 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Joe, your description is about as accurate as anyone knows on this, I think. www.medievalscotland.org (Sharon Krossa) and www.reconstructinghistory.com (Kass McGann) are the best resources I can think of. is mise le meas, Pandora Fitzpatrick Everett, WA www.slighe.com -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Joe Robertson Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:41 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Brat Construction Anyone have information on brat construction from the early 16th century? I am looking for references to materials, shape, size and decoration. The fellow (or lady) wearing it will be upper classed gaelic speaking Scots. What I've seen so far points to rectangular, fringed and multicolored wool. Also, any possibility they might have lined it on one side with something else, perhaps contrasting in color? I have thought about trying that, once I get the brat's dimensions right. Joe _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 21:45:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q1jWRM015727 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:45:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1hUNX002675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 19:43:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1hRf3087449; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:43:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1hNf3087419 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:43:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m114.in-tch.com [216.166.191.114]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4Q1JQe27215 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:19:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40B3F6FA.90001@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:46:34 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter References: <20040524172459.56672.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> <009b01c441ba$ddf91e70$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> In-Reply-To: <009b01c441ba$ddf91e70$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah. *sigh* --sue Gia wrote: > Especially on some pillows on in front of a nice fire, a couple of bottles > of champagne and our favorite foods at our elbows... (off day dreaming...) > > Emer \ Gia > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "KATHRYN WOLTERS" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:24 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter > > > >>Patrick Stweart could read the dictionary to me---and no matter how good > > OR bad his costumning--I would be an *esctaticly* happy woman:) > >>Albra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 21:46:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q1kdRM015737 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:46:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1k4NX002939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 19:46:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1k3f3088810; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:46:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1k0f3088800 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:46:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m114.in-tch.com [216.166.191.114]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4Q1M3e28375 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:22:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40B3F7A2.9010002@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:49:22 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter References: <20040524172459.56672.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> <009b01c441ba$ddf91e70$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> <064901c441be$02c1bf20$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> In-Reply-To: <064901c441be$02c1bf20$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah. *double sigh* --sue, imagining Stewart and Jones *both* reading the dictionary to me, and completely unable to come up with OCC [obligatory costume content].... *sigh* Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > I personally think James Earl Jones has the most beautiful speaking voice I > have ever heard.. > > Dianne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gia" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:13 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter > > > >>Especially on some pillows on in front of a nice fire, a couple of bottles >>of champagne and our favorite foods at our elbows... (off day > > dreaming...) > >>Emer \ Gia >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "KATHRYN WOLTERS" >>To: "Historical Costume" >>Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:24 AM >>Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter >> >> >> >>>Patrick Stweart could read the dictionary to me---and no matter how good >> >>OR bad his costumning--I would be an *esctaticly* happy woman:) >> >>>Albra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 21:51:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q1pWRM015783 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:51:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1ovNX003350 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 19:50:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1ouf3091411; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:50:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (thunder.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1obf3091141 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:50:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (dialup-a2-271.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.249.17]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 2B829426D5 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 11:50:25 +1000 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:53:09 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040525082931.00b8b008@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Troys & Troys ideas X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For my money (okay, I got in for free), it's a good movie with a consistent look and well-paced action. I am lucky enough to live in Melbourne where there is a large collection of Greek pottery - sorta like a 3D version of Thomas Hope - and could see where much of the styling for the film came from. On an off-costume topic, the thing I found disappointing about Troy was the dropping of the gods from the story. It was always the gods' interference in the affairs of men that propelled these myths. I understand that the film makers decided that it would be too hard to bring such an element to this film. By putting it into the too-hard basket, they reduced the motivations of the characters, especially Paris and Helen not to mention that heel Achilles! A couple of days back, Bridgette mentioned how inaccurate costuming can be jarring for the informed viewer of a costume drama. Let me slip sideways and tell a little story of jarring Trojan tragedies: Around 15 years ago, musician Jon English with David Mackay recorded Paris, an opera telling of the Trojan war. It is a great recording, used an all-star international cast, high quality packaging and was clearly a labour of love. The idea was to release the recording to finance a stage production. Warner Brothers blew the promotion and only 7,000 copies were sold. There have been several near-misses in staging the opera: I believe a successful reading of it has been done in Boston; A big-budget Melbourne company had the choice of Paris or Hello Dolly. They chose Hello Dolly and lost 3 million bucks - what a shame they did not waste the money on Paris! Earlier this year, Paris was at last performed. The rights were given to an amateur company as a way of getting a workshopping of the show as well as some marketing visuals. Jeeze, talk about jarring! The sound and the acting was fine, the singing good and the concepts as strong as ever. However, the horse looked like Meccanno on speed; the nobles looked like they were draped in eiderdowns; and the warriors looked like they were wearing second-hand linoleum (they were). The hair of the chorus was everywhere from gay kitsch to straggly student, and what the hell Hector was doing with an afro and Elvis sideburns is anyone's guess! So, don't youse go giving any more guff about the wrongs of the movie Troy! -C. PS: If you want to find the CD of Paris, it can be purchased online now that the authors have bought it back. I don't know the address but a search on Paris, Jon English, David Mackay may help. If you have the original release, get this one anyway seeing it contains the scenes the record company could not fit on the original CDs, cassettes and vinyl. It's worth it if only to hear Demis Roussos ad-lib, "It's all Greek to me!" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 21:52:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q1qTRM015787 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:52:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1oiNX003327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 19:50:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1ohf3091243; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:50:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (thunder.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1obf3091130 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:50:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (dialup-a2-271.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.249.17]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id E066B4272A for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 11:50:26 +1000 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:53:13 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Wooden horse of Master & Commander X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>>What's your objection to "Master and Commander"? It won a BAFTA award for costumes, and they are supposed to have gone to immense trouble to get the right fabrics etc. My only quibble is that while the ship was being repaired the officers would have been wearing old clothes instead of uniform --- In several scenes, full dress, day and other uniforms were being worn at the wrong times for the activities, agreed. The real problem with the uniforms was that the researchers never thought to consult a calendar. Generally, the uniforms were 1805 regulation styles. As I recall, the movie was set in April, 1805. The ship would have been a sea for at least two to three months to get to the where and when they were. At a time when communication could take years, the researchers had it in their minds that a lugubrious organisation like the Royal Navy could roll out new uniforms that quickly? Or that the new uniform designs were ratified so early in the year? Or that the officers could afford the money or time to have their new uniforms made so swiftly? The reality is that personnel would be wearing a miss-mash of styles for several years, -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 21:54:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q1svRM015794 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:54:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1rCNX003503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 19:53:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1rBf3092534; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:53:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (thunder.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q1oef3091102 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:50:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (dialup-a2-271.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.249.17]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 00E31426AD for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 11:50:28 +1000 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Troy - I have an idea. Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:53:14 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <1e9.213df6a6.2de49d39@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>>Of course this is what you are saying, but the films you state do not have crappy costumes. ---No, I did not. I said that they were crap from a point of view of historical accuracy. You might also note that I mentioned it was the evokation of the period and character that was more important than the accuracy, -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 22:01:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q21pRM015822 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:01:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q21HNX003989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 20:01:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q21Ff3096747; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:01:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf18.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf18.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.218]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q21Af3096655 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:01:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joedr@charter.net) Received: from charter.net (66.169.191.177.ts46v-16.otnh2.ftwrth.tx.charter.com [66.169.191.177]) by mxsf18.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4Q1wvus027440 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:58:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B3F9E2.AE930A11@charter.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:58:58 -0500 From: Joe Robertson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Brat Construction References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks much! I am considering something rather long and wide, rectangular, and deep fringed on all sides. I am trying to find a tartan in a non recognizable sett that is in older or subdued colors. I also might use lightweight 10 ounce wool and line it with a contrasting wool of the same weight on the inside. I did find reference to Queen Mary's highland mantles in a writing recently, and she's not too far after my period (her pop was my monarch). She apparently owned three of them, solid colored, and they were lined. Interesting, eh? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 22:08:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q28JRM015841 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:08:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q27aNX004489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 20:07:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q27Yf3000462; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:07:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q27Uf3000374 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:07:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m114.in-tch.com [216.166.191.114]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4Q1hRe07403 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:43:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40B3FC86.8080006@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:10:14 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistband for skirts References: <001101c44280$457ddca0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001101c44280$457ddca0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Never made one with it curved in back (actually can't think of any extant ones that are, either), at least in the 16th c. I only ever made a couple of gowns with bodices with a definite "point" in front. One was a separate bodice, skirt (standard waistband), and the other was a combined bodice-and-skirt, with the skirt cartridge pleated onto the bodice. On that one, I did curve the front part of the skirt's top a bit--got the idea from Hunnisett, IIRC. --sue, who's sure your dress will turn out beautifully, no matter how you end up doing it! Bjarne Drews wrote: > Hi, > Just wanted to ask some of you renaissance reenactors. When you have a > seperate skirt and bodice and your skirt is going to have a curved waistline > (lower in the front and back than the hips) do you sometimes make shaped > waistbands? > Bjarne who is considering doing that to the danish court dress. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 22:23:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q2NYRM015889 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:23:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q2MqNX005465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 20:22:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q2Mmf3008751; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:22:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q2Mkf3008667 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:22:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDA2A4264A for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:42:32 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40B4008F.4010702@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:27:27 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy - I have an idea References: <103.46a90301.2de53a04@aol.com> <40B3EA56.7050301@thibault.org> <000901c442bc$d11a1990$0a00a8c0@Cyhiraeth> In-Reply-To: <000901c442bc$d11a1990$0a00a8c0@Cyhiraeth> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Joan Broneske wrote: > Since when does Guenevere run around in bondage leather? > > . . . >>AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >> >>>And then there's the previews. "Arthur.....the truth behind the myth" >>> >>>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! You should see what they are > > wearing! > >>http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/kingarthur.html At least she isn't blonde again. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 22:27:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q2RERM015907 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:27:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q2PJNX005587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 20:25:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q2PHf3010030; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:25:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80507.mail.yahoo.com (web80507.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4Q2PGf3009970 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:25:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040526022509.80159.qmail@web80507.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.202.175.150] by web80507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:25:09 PDT Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:25:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Antique fabrics--resource book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As promised earlier, here's the information on the book I have on historic print fabrics: Meller, Susan & Joost Elffers. TEXTILE DESIGNS: Two Hundred Years of European and American Patterns for Printed Fabrics Organized by Motif, Style, Color, Layout, and Period 1,823 Illustrations in Color. New York: Harry N. Abrams, Inc., Publishers, 1991. ISBN 0-8109-3853-7. Each color illustration includes the country of origin, the approximate date, the type of printing (block-, copperplate-, roller-, or screen-printing), how the textile was used (apparel, apparel yard goods, home furnishing, home furnishing yard goods), and the scale of the illustration to the original textile. In some cases, the original design gouaches have been reproduced; these are indicated in the captions. The textiles presented are from 1790 to 1990. All in all, a very useful book for those doing 19th and 20th C. costuming. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 22:47:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q2lvRM016003 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:47:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q2lNNX006699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 20:47:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q2lKf3021467; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:47:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80508.mail.yahoo.com (web80508.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4Q2lIf3021376 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:47:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040526024712.10055.qmail@web80508.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.202.175.150] by web80508.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:47:12 PDT Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:47:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Notions Sale at Hancock's this weekend X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hancock's is once again putting all their sewing and quilting notions priced $19.99 and less on sale for 50% off. The sale begins Saturday, 5/29, and runs through Monday, 5/31. If you live near and/or shop at Hancock's, this is a good one. I went last year and was the first one in the door on Saturday morning; a good thing, because by the time I finished my shopping (about 90 minutes later), they were almost cleaned out of basic notions like sewing machine needles, serger thread cones, and expensive sewing tools like soapstone fabric markers. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 22:53:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q2r4RM016063 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:53:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q2pVNX006906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 20:51:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q2pUf3023541; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:51:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q2pRf3023522 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:51:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i4Q2pRhi022578 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.124] (tnt-1-37.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.229]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q2pO8u022506 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 19:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <63.2c852bfb.2de4e3f6@aol.com> References: <63.2c852bfb.2de4e3f6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:19:48 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Troy - I have an idea Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 2:01 PM -0400 5/25/04, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 5/25/2004 1:19:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, >otsisto@socket.net writes: > >> Greek had the trousers? > >I once had a history teacher tell us the women in ancient Greece wore pants. > >This confused me and I did a little research. [This was decades ago so don't >ask me where this came from] Apparently, the Persians wore pants and the >Greeks, who looked down on everyone, thought the Persians as >effeminate and sissies >[don't ask me why]. It seems that Bacchus is sometimes depicted in Persian >pants....being the party animal Bacchus was and apparently "light on >his feet". >So Pants were effeminate. So my teacher deduced that the women in Greece wore >pants....uh...I guess. I believe that Amazons were also depicted in Greek art wearing trousers. That might have contributed to the conclusion if she was only looking at the pictures and not at the context. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 22:53:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q2rJRM016066 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:53:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q2qoNX007015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 20:52:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q2qlf3024292; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:52:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q2pUf3023516 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:51:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26576 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:53:20 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:53:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT weather was: Lion in Winter DVD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 25 May 2004, otsisto wrote: > Yesterday a tornado touched down in Linn, MO which is north of me. We > got hit pretty hard last night through this morning into the afternoon > with thunderstorms. My back yard is lowest in the neighborhood so now > I have a bog working it's way towards a Florida style swamp. :P We're > suppose to get a break Wed. and it starts up again Thurs. to Sat. Well > as they say, we live in the state of misery, right next to the state > of ill noise. :) I'm a bit east of you in Misery -- I mean, Missouri -- and by the time those storms got here, they were dumping marble-sized hail. The hailstones (and the leaves they brought down) clogged a drain behind our house, leading the water to back up into our basement. I spent the afternoon shifting boxes out of harm's way ... in the dark, because the power was out. (My 10-year-old held the flashlight, and we both went squitch squitch over the cold wet carpet, barefoot). I am happy to report that the fabric stash was on the dry side of the basement, and appears to have escaped; the damp is still creeping through the carpet, but I've moved everything up and over and am keeping close watch. My husband's office took most of the brunt. Now my worry is mildew. There was a waterfall and a pond in the back yard (a landscaping surprise!), and the house has so many new leaves stuck to the outside walls it looks like patterned wallpaper. My nasturtiums were hacked to pieces. The garage has an inch of standing water. Still, after seeing the downed trees (some on roofs and houses) a few roads over, we feel lucky. And even that is nothing compared to what's been happening in Nebraska and Iowa. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 23:02:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q32WRM016106 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:02:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q31wNX007551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 21:01:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q31uf3028929; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:01:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q31qf3028887 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:01:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26641 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:03:44 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 22:03:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 378 In-Reply-To: <003f01c442be$f65065a0$0201a8c0@domain> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 25 May 2004, bobd2 wrote: > Also there's South Pacific Beads, in Vermont (naturally enough) > http://www.beading.com/Default.asp South Pacific's catalog is a fun read just on its own. I haven't ordered from him yet, but I am looking forward to getting my hands on some of his new gemstones, yum. He does seem to have an excellent pearl selection. > > Fire Mountain Gems and beads > > http://www.firemountaingems.com > > or call 1(800)355-2137 for free catalog. Their pretty good at getting your > > order to you. ...and unlike most companies, will take returns without pre-approval, not time limit, no stocking fees. I just got some nice rice pearls from them, and they have an excellent selection of silk thread fine enough to string them (which is hard to find most places; I don't use Kevlar). > > http://www.nationalsupply.com These people are local to me, and I do a lot of my bead shopping there. (They sell wholesale over the counter out of their office, which is well hidden but worth the trip.) Excellent pearl selection, but it varies from one week to the next. Don't rely only on the website; call and see what they happen to have at the moment. Mornings on weekdays are the best time (least busy, meaning they'll have more patience to talk with you). I have no idea what their return policy is, as they don't take returns on face-to-face transactions (but then, we can see what we're getting). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 23:05:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q35CRM016111 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:05:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q34cNX007692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 21:04:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q34bf3030269; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:04:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q346f3030003 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:04:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 7E7DE5CC87E; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (webmail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.62]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 52EA85CC045 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 198.93.213.53 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3705.198.93.213.53.1085540650.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistband for skirts From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.213.53 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) In-Reply-To: <40B3FC86.8080006@in-tch.com> References: <001101c44280$457ddca0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <40B3FC86.8080006@in-tch.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To clarify, are you saying that you are cutting the hip higher and the front and back lower? in other words, this is the standard way to cut a modern straight skirt and you are using this method for your skirt? this method is how we get a straight hem when our hips tend to pull up on the hemline by taking up more room than out butt or stomach does. the only time you need a shaped waistband in this case is if you are using a faced fitted waistline, (which is actually no waistband, but a facing shaped exactly like the top of the skirt so the skirt can lay directly on the waist) or if you find your average flat waistband is very uncomfortable (because of a very hight hip for instance). a shaped waistband for most waists would be wasted effort, you generally want the flat waistband to keep the skirt in place, so it isn't sagging. if your bodice is shaped, it goes over the skirt and you never know the skirt follows the natural waist. I had a skirt once with a Very wide waistband seven or eight inches. it wasn't even shaped, it was basically a rectangle attached to the skirt. now according to the pics we were seeing, a very wide waistband on a victorian corseted figure should be fitted to the figure, but probably wouldn't if it was a standard inch to inch and a half waistband. Hope this helps, fitting is one thing I have LOTS of experience in. LOL Kitty > > Bjarne Drews wrote: > >> Hi, >> Just wanted to ask some of you renaissance reenactors. When you have a >> seperate skirt and bodice and your skirt is going to have a curved >> waistline (lower in the front and back than the hips) do you sometimes >> make shaped waistbands? >> Bjarne who is considering doing that to the danish court dress. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 23:05:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q35DRM016112 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:05:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q33NNX007627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 21:03:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q33Mf3029674; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:03:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q31xf4028957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:02:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q365fc008418 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:06:05 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i4Q365Au008416 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:06:05 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House series Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:06:05 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <40B14E69.2010305@dandy.net> In-Reply-To: <40B14E69.2010305@dandy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405252306.05232.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 23 May 2004 09:22 pm, michael tartaglio wrote: > Hi, All. Hi, Ron. The only thing I can say to agree with you is to > remind everyone that the title to the first "Harry Potter" movie had to > be changed from Philosopher's Stone to Sorcerer's Stone in the US > because the folks in the know thought us to be such boobs that the word > "Philosopher" might turn us off from reading the book/going to the > movie. Now you can see why Europe is disgusted with us on so many > levels.... But they turned out to be wrong! The Potter books have a huge following in America. The statement you cite shows only that the "folks in the know" thought Americans were ignorant "boobs." -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 23:05:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q35IRM016117 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:05:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q34iNX007714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 21:04:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q34if3030331; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:04:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.228]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q34If3030123 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:04:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.21.130.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.130] helo=HELENPINTO) by mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BSoiH-0004Jm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 May 2004 20:04:18 -0700 Message-ID: <018d01c442ce$1f6fe6e0$82159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <63.2c852bfb.2de4e3f6@aol.com> <200405252027.09456.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Troy - I have an idea Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:04:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9efd7d3d6cfa319b19a0fa0d278e9d8af54350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cathy wrote: > Can't think of any place else she got the idea--I've never seen any ancient > Greek art depicting women--or men, for that matter--in anything pant-like. > Look at second figure from the left on the pot in the third image on the page below. Amazons were frequently depicted wearing trousers and long-sleeved tunics (looking much like Scythians). http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis/HST210/Oct14/Default.htm -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 23:07:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q37jRM016122 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:07:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q37BNX007891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 21:07:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q37Af3031565; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:07:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fed1rmmtao02.cox.net (fed1rmmtao02.cox.net [68.230.241.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q36ff3031254 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:06:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mudsleidi@cox.net) Received: from zorro.cox.net ([68.7.135.77]) by fed1rmmtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with ESMTP id <20040526030634.DZZP304.fed1rmmtao02.cox.net@zorro.cox.net> for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:06:34 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20040525195651.01dd0890@pop.west.cox.net> X-Sender: mudsleidi@pop.west.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:06:48 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heidi Fox Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Questions about 1530s German dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello folks, I will be constructing a gown in this style http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/c/cranach/lucas_e/9/04judith.html for a friend. I have some questions about the bodice and skirt construction: In some portraits from the same era, the white area of the torso is obviously the chemise (or made to look this way), and in other portraits (such as the one above), the white area is smooth as if there were a stomacher (for lack of a better word) under the lacing. Is the band across the breasts (is this a plastron?) attached to the bodice or is it worn underneath, and if so, how was it kept smooth beneath the bodice? Is the bodice separate from the skirt or attached? Is the pleated front of the skirt simply attached to a narrow waistband (that can't be seen in the portraits)? Thanks in advance for any help! Heidi (ironically, new to German costume) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 23:10:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q3ARRM016134 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:10:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q38MNX007980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 21:08:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q38Lf3032119; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:08:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q38Cf3032017 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:08:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB5BB28F99 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:08:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t2p061.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.216.63]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6BA17C5F8 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:08:11 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Tornadoes and Colonial House Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 22:08:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If it's the Aquina tribe of Wampanoag then the outfits are not rendition but original and would NOT be happy if they were told or given a rendition of their clothing. The Mashpee Wampanoags are not as in your face about their tradition as the Aquina. The Wampanoags were a confederation. I have the privilege of knowing a descendant of Massasoit's daughter who lives on the same side of town as I. Also, in the next town I have a friend who is a descendant of Pocahontas's sister. Rosie's pictures of when she was a teen looks like Pocahontas. De -----Original Message----- >From: "otsisto" >Catherine Kinsey wrote: >>Anyone want to comment on the "indian" costumes? >Okay, now I'm starting to wish I could get this. I would love to see their >rendition of native garments. It's not -their- rendition. My impression has been that the Passamaquoddy (the local tribe) seemed to have come up with their own clothes. And I would be greatly surprised if the Wampanoag who came to visit took any advice on their traditional clothing :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 23:24:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q3OGRM016219 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:24:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3NaNX009112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 21:23:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3NXf3040355; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:23:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3NUf3040323 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:23:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1305C29030 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:23:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t2p061.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.216.63]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E9614C419 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:23:28 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] The Victorian corset debate Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 22:23:40 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <200405252119.04883.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You are right. I should not have generalized. As there are different schools of TKD there are different teaching methods and rules. Our school follows what we have been told by Pediatricians about bone development in children and therefore do not allow children under the age of 15 to break boards with their hands. Also, you have to be 12 1/2 years old to become a black belt because we feel that there is more to being a black belt then knowing patterns and breaking things. There is a maturity that we feel that most 7 year olds do not have. Also to be a black belt you are expected to be able to instruct and have patience with lower rank students. But that is our school. De -----Original Message----- On Sunday 23 May 2004 10:43 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > Children's bones are soft. Children in Tae Kwon-Do classes are not > > allowed to break boards with their hands due to developing bones. Excuse me....but it's not correct that children studying tae kwon do are not permitted to break boards with their hands. I studied tae kwan do for over 10 years (earned a black belt). The grandmaster who ran our school loved to teach children, and boasted of having earned his first degree black belt by the time he was 7. Anyway, at our school kids as young as 7 (there were a few who were younger, but I don't remember offhand whether I saw the younger ones break boards) did board breaks all the time. Granted, they used smaller boards. But they did hand breaks--in fact they were started out with hand breaks--and I never saw a child injured in the course of breaking a board. -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 23:25:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q3PVRM016223 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:25:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3P2NX009210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 21:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3P2f3041212; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:25:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3P1f3041123 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:25:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.d1.d958b44 (4116) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:24:53 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:24:53 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy - I have an idea To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/25/2004 9:09:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com writes: > guess I'm just a freak when it comes to judging the quality of costuming in > > "period" films LOL. I am okay with films that have fantasy-based rather > than > reality-based costuming, as long as the costuming is *good*! Oh I agree. But "Arthur" bills itself as the true story behind the myth. Yeah....right. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 23:31:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q3VURM016234 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:31:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3UsNX009601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 21:30:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3Uqf3044340; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:30:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3Uof3044247 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:30:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.147.2a9dee52 (4116) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:30:40 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <147.2a9dee52.2de56960@aol.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:30:40 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Troys & Troys ideas To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/25/2004 9:51:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, stilskin@netspace.net.au writes: > On an off-costume topic, the thing I found disappointing about Troy was the > dropping of the gods from the story. I totally agree. Just takes a lot of the fun out of it. I much prefer the beauty contest between Hera, Aphrodite and Athena to the soap opera scenes with Paris and Helen. And where's one of the best classical characters ever....Casandra???? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 23:36:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q3a3RM016252 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:36:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3YCNX009778 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 21:34:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3YBf3045999; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:34:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3Y9f4045975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:34:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3cGfc008655 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:38:16 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i4Q3cFZ2008653 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:38:15 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Troy - I have an idea. Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:38:15 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <20040524184124.69647.qmail@web41312.mail.yahoo.com> <200405252036.25684.cathy@thyrsus.com> <00b301c442c0$30516050$2065c345@39jz301> In-Reply-To: <00b301c442c0$30516050$2065c345@39jz301> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405252338.15660.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 25 May 2004 09:24 pm, Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > Greetings-- > > > The fighting scenes *were* cool. The casting was, in my judgment, > > excellent. > > > Though I was a bit annoyed at the vast extent to which they costumed both > > Trojans and Greeks from the local Indian bazaar.... > > In fact, I own one of Helen's pairs of earrings... No doubt, since Toronto has, I'm told, a really great Indian market area. :-) Which I missed, due to bad planning, when I visited Toronto for the World Science Fiction Convention last fall. Just in case I get another opportunity to visit, which subway stop is closest to the Indian market area? Thanks in advance for any help. -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 23:37:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q3bFRM016257 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:37:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3ZTNX009832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 21:35:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3ZSf3046595; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:35:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3YGf3045997 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:34:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.78.57e9d751 (4116) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:34:08 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <78.57e9d751.2de56a30@aol.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:34:08 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Troy - I have an idea. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/25/2004 9:53:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, stilskin@netspace.net.au writes: > Of course this is what you are saying, but the films you state do not > have > crappy costumes. > > ---No, I did not. I said that they were crap from a point of view of > historical accuracy. You might also note that I mentioned it was the > evokation of the period and character that was more important than the > accuracy, > Huh....I agreed with you on that....when I said "Of course this is what you are saying". And the films you mention are not crap even from an historical perspective. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 25 23:58:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q3wvRM016294 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:58:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3uuNX011065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 21:56:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3upf3056945; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:56:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out014.verizon.net (out014pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q3uof3056925 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 21:56:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp ([4.33.44.216]) by out014.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040526035649.GZWR5247.out014.verizon.net@brandyscomp> for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:56:49 -0500 Message-ID: <022e01c442d5$843f6170$d82c2104@brandyscomp> From: "Brandy Deming" To: "Historical Costume" References: <103.46a90301.2de53a04@aol.com> <40B3EA56.7050301@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy - I have an idea Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:57:06 -0700 Organization: Better Times for Small Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out014.verizon.net from [4.33.44.216] at Tue, 25 May 2004 22:56:49 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OMG!!! That is something else... what is she supposed to be? or was the real costume designer sick that day? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 5:52 PM Subject: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy - I have an idea > AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > And then there's the previews. "Arthur.....the truth behind the myth" > > > > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! You should see what they are wearing! > > http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/kingarthur.html > > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du Pré Argent > > "The mind games, the isolation, the accusations about being unfaithful, > the obsessive keeping track, preventing the other person from getting a > job... We're in an abusive relationship with the Bush Administration!" > -- Sparrow to Stuart, DTWOF > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 00:04:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q44ZRM016347 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 00:04:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q441NX011534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 22:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q440f3060578; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:04:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out003.verizon.net (out003pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q43xf3060548 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:03:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jauncourt@verizon.net) Received: from verizon.net ([4.12.168.105]) by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040526040358.HNUP6671.out003.verizon.net@verizon.net> for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:03:58 -0500 Message-ID: <40B41730.1090708@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:04:00 -0500 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-CA; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en, en-ca MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns References: <200405241048.i4OAma0Z075422@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [4.12.168.105] at Tue, 25 May 2004 23:03:58 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > From: "Christopher Ballis" wrote: > >thought I'd buy the civil war underwear patterns but I'm not sure which > >corset pattern to take as one of my free patterns, there's 2 different > >styles, > > Niether. Both are rubbish. Spend your money on ice cream (Aldi's Havana Lane > creamy chocolate), I beg to differ. Having made several corsets from diagrams of originals (from both _Corsets and Crinolines_ and _Waisted Efforts_), at least one of the Simplicity 1860's era corsets is, in fact, a period design 'translated', if you will, for modern seamstresses. The shaped corset (9769) is what was called a French stay or sport corset (for 'sportswear' or summer wear, such corsets were sometimes made of one layer with applied casings). The cut is identical to a corset I made 10 years ago from a diagram in _Corsets and Crinolines_ , only the sizing is different. ALso, it should be noted that teh designer had no control over how the pattern graders sized the corset - it is actually patterned aobut 2 sizes larger than it should be, but once that is accounted for, you can get a very creditable result and a period silhouette. It looks simialr to Past Patterns #'s 703 (sans skirt support) and 213. Design 5726 looks to be a similar cut. I have not tested it or even looked at, however. If I were to pick one, I'd pick 9769. Design 7215, the gusseted stays, I have seen but not tested. It's a very period design, and looks comparable to Past Patterns #'s 708 and the shorter stay in 002. It is by the same designer as 9769, so I expect it is as well researched and patterned. This style is definitely more suited to buxom bustlines, but it is harder to assemble. Just because it's from a "Big Three" company doesn't mean it's garbage. Maura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 00:06:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q46YRM016351 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 00:06:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q460NX011653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 22:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q45wf3061554; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:05:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q45uf4061523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:05:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q4A2fc008848 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 00:10:02 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i4Q4A19M008845 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 May 2004 00:10:01 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Troy - I have an idea Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 00:10:00 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <63.2c852bfb.2de4e3f6@aol.com> <200405252027.09456.cathy@thyrsus.com> <018d01c442ce$1f6fe6e0$82159b04@HELENPINTO> In-Reply-To: <018d01c442ce$1f6fe6e0$82159b04@HELENPINTO> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405260010.00814.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 25 May 2004 11:04 pm, Helen Pinto wrote: > Cathy wrote: > > Can't think of any place else she got the idea--I've never seen any > > ancient > > > Greek art depicting women--or men, for that matter--in anything > > pant-like. > > Look at second figure from the left on the pot in the third image on the > page below. Amazons were frequently depicted wearing trousers and > long-sleeved tunics (looking much like Scythians). > http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis/HST210/Oct14/Default.htm Forgive me for not being clear. I meant that I never saw *Greek* men or women depicted in pants. The Amazons *weren't* Greek! As you pointed out, the Amazons are dressed pretty much like Scythians on that amphora. -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 00:28:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q4SXRM016394 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 00:28:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q4QjNX013109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 22:26:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q4Q7f3072288; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:26:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q4Pvf3072074 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:26:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10DD14264A for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:45:43 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40B41D6D.60300@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:30:37 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy References: <103.46a90301.2de53a04@aol.com> <40B3EA56.7050301@thibault.org> <022e01c442d5$843f6170$d82c2104@brandyscomp> In-Reply-To: <022e01c442d5$843f6170$d82c2104@brandyscomp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Brandy Deming wrote: > OMG!!! That is something else... what is she supposed to be? or was the real > costume designer sick that day? > > I would guess, from the blue face paint and spiral designs that she is supposed to be a Celtic warrior-princess type character. I predict a lot more blue face paint at Ren-fest this fall. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 01:14:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q5EZRM016561 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 01:14:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q5DxNX015812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 May 2004 23:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q5Dtf3096052; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:13:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q5Drf3096030 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 23:13:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-91-94.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.91.94]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4Q5Dorn022618 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 22:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040525212032.00cc42a0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:21:49 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Antique fabrics In-Reply-To: <1708.198.93.213.9.1085528192.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.ne t> References: <4.1.20040525140905.01ce2820@mail.frys.com> <4.1.20040525140905.01ce2820@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO you might ask the person doing doll clothes what she >bases her choices on, you might find her more likeminded than you think. I hang around with lots of dollmakers these days, and they aren't on that point. I go into denial about this, because I otherwise like the people, and change the subject. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 02:44:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q6iDRM001773 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 02:44:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q6hUNX020419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 00:43:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q6hQf3040397; Wed, 26 May 2004 00:43:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shockwave.systems.pipex.net (shockwave.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q6hLf3040318 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 00:43:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by shockwave.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 013B01C000C0 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:43:16 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <005801c442ec$aa94a580$97725651@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: "Historical Costume" References: <63.2c852bfb.2de4e3f6@aol.com><200405252027.09456.cathy@thyrsus.com><018d01c442ce$1f6fe6e0$82159b04@HELENPINTO> <200405260010.00814.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Troy - I have an idea Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:42:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The only illustration I can find to hand in a hurry is of an early 5th century Attic red-figure cup in the Louvre (G115). It shows the duel between Ajax and Hektor at Troy, with Athene supporting Ajax and Apollo supporting Hektor. Ajax has a complicated outfit, including lots of armour and what looks like two kilts - one shorter than the other - with handkerchief points and lots of narrow pleats. Hektor the Trojan is completely naked, except for a Greek-style helmet, sword and round shield, and his scabbard - which is hung from a long strap over one shoulder. This very narrow strap seems to have a couple of short tassels hanging at either side where it crosses his abdomen. Nothing else at all. So - who played Ajax in the film? Was he dressed as this Greek cup imagines him? Would the audience have wanted to see that? Linda Walton, (in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K., who thinks she may have to get round to seeing this film after all . . .). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 03:03:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q73LRM010305 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 03:03:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q72eNX021497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 01:02:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q72bf3050091; Wed, 26 May 2004 01:02:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q72Xf3050027 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 01:02:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Rampant_Peacock@comcast.net) Received: from molly (c-67-170-26-145.client.comcast.net[67.170.26.145]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20040526070226011009edpbe>; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:02:26 +0000 From: "Molly Boone" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] waistband for skirts Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 00:02:25 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <3705.198.93.213.53.1085540650.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've never shaped a waistband either. On everything I do where the skirt is separate the skirt goes on after hoop but before bodice so the way the skirt waistband is shaped doesn't matter. Even when I have seen cartridge pleated Elizabethan skirts they are not shaped, the pleats are just a shelf that springs out from under the bodice edges. My only caution, Bjarne, is my period of focus is the 1580's UK and I believe the gown you are working on is later period. Molly -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of basyefelton@floodcity.net Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:04 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistband for skirts To clarify, are you saying that you are cutting the hip higher and the front and back lower? in other words, this is the standard way to cut a modern straight skirt and you are using this method for your skirt? this method is how we get a straight hem when our hips tend to pull up on the hemline by taking up more room than out butt or stomach does. the only time you need a shaped waistband in this case is if you are using a faced fitted waistline, (which is actually no waistband, but a facing shaped exactly like the top of the skirt so the skirt can lay directly on the waist) or if you find your average flat waistband is very uncomfortable (because of a very hight hip for instance). a shaped waistband for most waists would be wasted effort, you generally want the flat waistband to keep the skirt in place, so it isn't sagging. if your bodice is shaped, it goes over the skirt and you never know the skirt follows the natural waist. I had a skirt once with a Very wide waistband seven or eight inches. it wasn't even shaped, it was basically a rectangle attached to the skirt. now according to the pics we were seeing, a very wide waistband on a victorian corseted figure should be fitted to the figure, but probably wouldn't if it was a standard inch to inch and a half waistband. Hope this helps, fitting is one thing I have LOTS of experience in. LOL Kitty > > Bjarne Drews wrote: > >> Hi, >> Just wanted to ask some of you renaissance reenactors. When you have a >> seperate skirt and bodice and your skirt is going to have a curved >> waistline (lower in the front and back than the hips) do you sometimes >> make shaped waistbands? >> Bjarne who is considering doing that to the danish court dress. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 03:09:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q79VRM010363 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 03:09:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q77hNX021799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 01:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q77gf3052253; Wed, 26 May 2004 01:07:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q77ff3052231 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 01:07:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-206-244.cvip.net [129.8.206.244]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6213A2E1B2 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 00:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040526000509.02d55928@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 00:07:26 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Tornadoes and Colonial House In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:08 PM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: >If it's the Aquina tribe of Wampanoag then the outfits are not rendition but >original and would NOT be happy if they were told or given a rendition of >their clothing. The Mashpee Wampanoags are not as in your face about their >tradition as the Aquina. The Wampanoags were a confederation. >I have the privilege of knowing a descendant of Massasoit's daughter who >lives on the same side of town as I. Also, in the next town I have a friend >who is a descendant of Pocahontas's sister. Rosie's pictures of when she was >a teen looks like Pocahontas. >De It was the Mashpee, as I read under the name titles. I rather liked the Elder, Ramona. She was very wise, far sighted, and in modern terms... she rocked! Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 03:36:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q7a2RM010443 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 03:36:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q7ZPNX023138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 01:35:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q7Y8f3063866; Wed, 26 May 2004 01:34:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q7Y3f3063800 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 01:34:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Rampant_Peacock@comcast.net) Received: from molly (c-67-170-26-145.client.comcast.net[67.170.26.145]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20040526073355011009f4mde>; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:33:56 +0000 From: "Molly Boone" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 00:33:55 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <40B41D6D.60300@reddawn.net> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd say they actually base Guenevere on the Celtic Princess she was supposed to have been depending on the legends you have read. From what I know women were fighters and leaders as much as the men so at least she won't be the pansy-assed maiden in distress (You must pay the rest, but I can't pay the rent) type. Take it to far? Possible considering the top and vast quantities of spirit gun they had to have used to keep it in place. But I personally will reserve judgment until I have seen it. Molly -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:31 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy Brandy Deming wrote: > OMG!!! That is something else... what is she supposed to be? or was the real > costume designer sick that day? > > I would guess, from the blue face paint and spiral designs that she is supposed to be a Celtic warrior-princess type character. I predict a lot more blue face paint at Ren-fest this fall. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 04:37:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q8bXRM011143 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 04:37:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q8b1NX026243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 02:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q8Zmf3088839; Wed, 26 May 2004 02:35:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q8Zjf3088808 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 02:35:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i4Q8ZiT22859.; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:35:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:35:44 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:35:11 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wooden horse of Master & Commander Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> stilskin@netspace.net.au 26/05/2004 02:53:13 >>> >>>What's your objection to "Master and Commander"? My only >>>quibble is that while the ship was being repaired the officers would >>>have been wearing old clothes instead of uniform >Generally, the uniforms were 1805 regulation styles. >The reality is that personnel would be wearing a miss-mash of styles >for several years, I respect your expert knowledge, but I would consider that to be a quibble too. It hardly justifies such a sweeping condemnation! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 05:17:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4Q9HMRM011307 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 05:17:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q9GjNX029494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 03:16:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q9FWf3006903; Wed, 26 May 2004 03:15:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mwinf0902.wanadoo.fr (smtp9.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4Q9FUf3006857 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 03:15:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from liara@wanadoo.fr) Received: from mathilde (AMontsouris-151-1-7-138.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr [82.123.129.138]) by mwinf0902.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 683A718000E9 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 11:15:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00a401c44302$092b6150$8a817b52@mathilde> From: "Liara" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:15:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually that is what's bothering me, coming from a movie who claims its "historical accuracy" : the scenario apparently makes no difference between Picts and Britons... Which is a good excuse to dress everybody with strips of leather and paint all of them in blue ;) But then again, if it comes to a good movie in the end... At least, Guenievre may have an interesting role, for once ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Molly Boone" > I'd say they actually base Guenevere on the Celtic Princess she was supposed > to have been depending on the legends you have read. From what I know women > were fighters and leaders as much as the men so at least she won't be the > pansy-assed maiden in distress (You must pay the rest, but I can't pay the > rent) type. Take it to far? Possible considering the top and vast quantities > of spirit gun they had to have used to keep it in place. But I personally > will reserve judgment until I have seen it. > > Molly > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 06:27:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QAR3RM011689 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 06:27:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QAQQNX003306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 04:26:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QAQMf3037648; Wed, 26 May 2004 04:26:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web02-imail.rogers.com (web02-imail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.76]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QAQBf3037453 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 04:26:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from 39jz301 ([69.195.101.32]) by web02-imail.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040526102522.NETG114179.web02-imail.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 06:25:22 -0400 Message-ID: <005a01c4430b$dc52ed60$2065c345@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040524184124.69647.qmail@web41312.mail.yahoo.com><200405252036.25684.cathy@thyrsus.com><00b301c442c0$30516050$2065c345@39jz301> <200405252338.15660.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Troy - I have an idea. Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 06:26:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at web02-imail.rogers.com from [69.195.101.32] using ID at Wed, 26 May 2004 06:25:22 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > Which I missed, due to bad planning, when I visited Toronto for the World > Science Fiction Convention last fall. Just in case I get another opportunity > to visit, which subway stop is closest to the Indian market area? Thanks in > advance for any help. It's not particularly close to any subway stop, but you can get there by going to Coxwell station on the Bloor subway line and taking a bus south to Gerrard St. That will put you at the east end of Little India. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 07:24:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QBOpRM012024 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:24:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QBOINX006482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 05:24:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QBOBf3066223; Wed, 26 May 2004 05:24:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QBO5f3066148 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 05:24:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB8F1B26F8 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:23:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 31457-03 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:23:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 17BC51B26F0 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:23:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009501c44313$ec56fd20$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040524172459.56672.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> <009b01c441ba$ddf91e70$b7f51018@archaeosoft1><064901c441be$02c1bf20$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> <40B3F7A2.9010002@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:23:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter > Yeah. > *double sigh* > --sue, imagining Stewart and Jones *both* reading the dictionary to me, > and completely unable to come up with OCC [obligatory costume content].... > *sigh* > How about a lovely, soft, silky negligee and peignoir, as in the old 30's movies? Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 08:40:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QCeoRM012425 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 08:40:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QCZKNX010374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 06:35:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QCZHf3098687; Wed, 26 May 2004 06:35:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QCZFf3098652 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 06:35:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.d8.b770673 (3924) for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 08:35:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:35:08 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/25/04 11:27:06 PM Central Daylight Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: I predict a lot more blue face paint at Ren-fest this fall. Not to mention chain mail bikinis, God help us. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 08:42:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QCgnRM012438 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 08:42:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QCf1NX010763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 06:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QCewf3001671; Wed, 26 May 2004 06:40:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QCetf3001589 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 06:40:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.163.30182db9 (3924) for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 08:40:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <163.30182db9.2de5ea51@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:40:49 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/26/04 4:17:22 AM Central Daylight Time, liara@wanadoo.fr writes: Actually that is what's bothering me, coming from a movie who claims its "historical accuracy" : the scenario apparently makes no difference between Picts and Britons... Which is a good excuse to dress everybody with strips of leather and paint all of them in blue ;) LOL ... this brought to mind another example of a good movie with bizarre costuming, Braveheart. The costuming is on the hilarious side, but it was at least beautiful to look at, and it didn't ultimately interfere with my enjoyment of the movie, any of the 462 times or so that I've watched it. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 09:05:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QD5bRM012524 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:05:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QD55NX012324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 07:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QD53f3013770; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:05:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QD51f3013699 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:05:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1cc.21dfd9b6 (4446) for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:04:53 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1cc.21dfd9b6.2de5eff5@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:04:53 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Troy - I have an idea To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/26/2004 2:44:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com writes: > So - who played Ajax in the film? Was he dressed as this Greek cup > imagines > him? Would the audience have wanted to see that? > Oh yes! They would have. The film is definitely long haired hunks in short skirts. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 09:08:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QD8bRM012532 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:08:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QD6UNX012407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 07:06:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QD6Uf3014630; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:06:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QD5of3014133 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:05:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.144.2a78eab0 (4446) for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:05:41 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <144.2a78eab0.2de5f025@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:05:41 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/26/2004 3:36:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rampant_Peacock@comcast.net writes: > But I personally > will reserve judgment until I have seen it. > That's more than fair minded of you. The promo was enough for me. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 09:12:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QDC0RM012537 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:12:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QDA1NX012655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 07:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QDA0f3016517; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:10:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QD9wf3016454 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:09:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m168.in-tch.com [216.166.191.168]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4QCjwe16218 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 06:45:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40B497C0.5080205@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:12:32 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy - I have an idea References: <103.46a90301.2de53a04@aol.com> <40B3EA56.7050301@thibault.org> <022e01c442d5$843f6170$d82c2104@brandyscomp> In-Reply-To: <022e01c442d5$843f6170$d82c2104@brandyscomp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Arthur? in plate mail, and Guinivere in Gor-bondage stuff! Eeegad! If this was tongue-in-cheek, that would be one thing, but it sounds like they think they're taking themselves seriously! Jaysus! --sue, who thinks she'll wait for "88 cent Tuesday" at the local video rental place Brandy Deming wrote: > OMG!!! That is something else... what is she supposed to be? or was the real > costume designer sick that day? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cynthia Virtue" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 5:52 PM > Subject: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy - I have an idea > > > >>AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >> >>>And then there's the previews. "Arthur.....the truth behind the myth" >>> >>>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! You should see what they are > > wearing! > >>http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/kingarthur.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 09:18:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QDIdRM012552 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:18:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QDI5NX013275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 07:18:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QDI2f3021003; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:18:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QDI0f3020957 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:18:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m168.in-tch.com [216.166.191.168]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4QCrwe19732 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 06:53:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40B499B2.7040206@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:20:50 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistband for skirts References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd have to double-check to make sure, but I recall that the majority of the skirts from complete (extant)gowns (as opposed to an underskirt) in Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620_ have shaped upper edges. ISTR one child's dress that does not. Don't remember any waistbands, though, shaped or not (on the skirts...men's clothing being a different topic). --sue Molly Boone wrote: > I've never shaped a waistband either. On everything I do where the skirt is > separate the skirt goes on after hoop but before bodice so the way the skirt > waistband is shaped doesn't matter. Even when I have seen cartridge pleated > Elizabethan skirts they are not shaped, the pleats are just a shelf that > springs out from under the bodice edges. > > My only caution, Bjarne, is my period of focus is the 1580's UK and I > believe the gown you are working on is later period. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 09:26:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QDQ2RM012582 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:26:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QDO9NX013699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 07:24:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QDO7f3024470; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:24:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QDO5f3024453 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:24:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m168.in-tch.com [216.166.191.168]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4QD08e22378 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:00:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40B49B22.30609@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:26:58 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter References: <20040524172459.56672.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> <009b01c441ba$ddf91e70$b7f51018@archaeosoft1><064901c441be$02c1bf20$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> <40B3F7A2.9010002@in-tch.com> <009501c44313$ec56fd20$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> In-Reply-To: <009501c44313$ec56fd20$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Stewart and Jones, or on me? --sue, feeling very silly (oh, duh...costume content! ...yeah, that would work....) Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sue Clemenger" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:49 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter > > > >>Yeah. >>*double sigh* >>--sue, imagining Stewart and Jones *both* reading the dictionary to me, >>and completely unable to come up with OCC [obligatory costume content].... >>*sigh* >> > > > > How about a lovely, soft, silky negligee and peignoir, as in the old 30's > movies? > > Dianne > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 09:44:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QDibRM012692 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:44:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QDhvNX015056 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 07:43:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QDhrf3035174; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:43:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (cumulus.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QDhpf3035061 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:43:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (dialup-a1-218.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.246.218]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 01E296C490 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 23:43:39 +1000 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Wooden horse of Master & Commander Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:46:24 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> but I would consider that to be a quibble too. It hardly justifies such a sweeping condemnation! --- But the ship was manned by all those quibbles (oh, and Rusty's cuff lace was wrong, too), -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 09:55:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QDt5RM012839 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:55:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QDsMNX015734 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 07:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QDsKf3041433; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:54:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QDsFf3041363 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:54:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id DB37B5CC534; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (webmail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.62]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8BCEB5CC055 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 198.93.212.26 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3518.198.93.212.26.1085579655.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.212.26 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) In-Reply-To: <40B41730.1090708@verizon.net> References: <200405241048.i4OAma0Z075422@net.indra.com> <40B41730.1090708@verizon.net> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO now you've brought up a question that has been in my mind for quite a while. when looking at the vintage patterns at past patterns or Amazon Drygoods, someone please tell me what is a skirt support? Maura below states that a certain pattern is identical to a vintage style pattern, "minus the skirt support" now I want to find out what that is, please. thanks, Kitty >> From: "Christopher Ballis" wrote: > >> >thought I'd buy the civil war underwear patterns but I'm not sure >> which corset pattern to take as one of my free patterns, there's 2 >> different styles, >> >> Niether. Both are rubbish. Spend your money on ice cream (Aldi's >> Havana Lane creamy chocolate), > > I beg to differ. Having made several corsets from diagrams of originals > (from both _Corsets and Crinolines_ and _Waisted Efforts_), at least one > of the Simplicity 1860's era corsets is, in fact, a period design > 'translated', if you will, for modern seamstresses. > > The shaped corset (9769) is what was called a French stay or sport > corset (for 'sportswear' or summer wear, such corsets were sometimes > made of one layer with applied casings). The cut is identical to a > corset I made 10 years ago from a diagram in _Corsets and Crinolines_ , > only the sizing is different. ALso, it should be noted that teh designer > had no control over how the pattern graders sized the corset - it is > actually patterned aobut 2 sizes larger than it should be, but once that > is accounted for, you can get a very creditable result and a period > silhouette. It looks simialr to Past Patterns #'s 703 (sans skirt > support) and 213. > > Design 5726 looks to be a similar cut. I have not tested it or even > looked at, however. If I were to pick one, I'd pick 9769. > > Design 7215, the gusseted stays, I have seen but not tested. It's a very > period design, and looks comparable to Past Patterns #'s 708 and the > shorter stay in 002. It is by the same designer as 9769, so I expect it > is as well researched and patterned. This style is definitely more > suited to buxom bustlines, but it is harder to assemble. > > Just because it's from a "Big Three" company doesn't mean it's garbage. > > Maura > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 10:00:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QE0bRM012866 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 10:00:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QDwhNX016066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 07:58:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QDwhf3044333; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:58:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QDwef3044279 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 07:58:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bef1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.241]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 0EE225EE02B for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 15:58:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001301c44329$9502df10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:58:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] waistbands X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I posted this for another list: lumieres as well. Some person claimed that cartridge pleating was not 18th century, but i dont know where he has his documentation from. I posted this for you to se. The second portrait clearly shows that cartridge pleating was used to make the fabric go over the hoop in the sides. The last drawing shows how i would make the shaped waistband. This way i could get the skirt to fit the bodice very closely, and that is my aim. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/waistband Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 10:10:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QEA3RM012904 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 10:10:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QE8DNX016925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 08:08:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QE8Bf3050638; Wed, 26 May 2004 08:08:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QE87f3050595 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 08:08:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bef1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.241]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 13DDF2628B6 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 16:08:03 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <007401c4432a$e7cc7480$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200405241048.i4OAma0Z075422@net.indra.com><40B41730.1090708@verizon.net> <3518.198.93.212.26.1085579655.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:08:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. This support would be a crinoline cage. Hooped petticoat. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:54 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns > now you've brought up a question that has been in my mind for quite a > while. when looking at the vintage patterns at past patterns or Amazon > Drygoods, someone please tell me what is a skirt support? Maura below > states that a certain pattern is identical to a vintage style pattern, > "minus the skirt support" now I want to find out what that is, please. > thanks, Kitty > > >> From: "Christopher Ballis" wrote: > > > >> >thought I'd buy the civil war underwear patterns but I'm not sure > >> which corset pattern to take as one of my free patterns, there's 2 > >> different styles, > >> > >> Niether. Both are rubbish. Spend your money on ice cream (Aldi's > >> Havana Lane creamy chocolate), > > > > I beg to differ. Having made several corsets from diagrams of originals > > (from both _Corsets and Crinolines_ and _Waisted Efforts_), at least one > > of the Simplicity 1860's era corsets is, in fact, a period design > > 'translated', if you will, for modern seamstresses. > > > > The shaped corset (9769) is what was called a French stay or sport > > corset (for 'sportswear' or summer wear, such corsets were sometimes > > made of one layer with applied casings). The cut is identical to a > > corset I made 10 years ago from a diagram in _Corsets and Crinolines_ , > > only the sizing is different. ALso, it should be noted that teh designer > > had no control over how the pattern graders sized the corset - it is > > actually patterned aobut 2 sizes larger than it should be, but once that > > is accounted for, you can get a very creditable result and a period > > silhouette. It looks simialr to Past Patterns #'s 703 (sans skirt > > support) and 213. > > > > Design 5726 looks to be a similar cut. I have not tested it or even > > looked at, however. If I were to pick one, I'd pick 9769. > > > > Design 7215, the gusseted stays, I have seen but not tested. It's a very > > period design, and looks comparable to Past Patterns #'s 708 and the > > shorter stay in 002. It is by the same designer as 9769, so I expect it > > is as well researched and patterned. This style is definitely more > > suited to buxom bustlines, but it is harder to assemble. > > > > Just because it's from a "Big Three" company doesn't mean it's garbage. > > > > Maura > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 10:19:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QEJWRM012931 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 10:19:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QEHcNX017719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 08:17:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QEHZf3056760; Wed, 26 May 2004 08:17:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts7.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.165]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QEHXf3056666 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 08:17:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.136.200]) by simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040526141727.LLD11651.simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 10:17:27 -0400 Message-ID: <025c01c4432b$f88a89a0$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <103.46a90301.2de53a04@aol.com> <40B3EA56.7050301@thibault.org><022e01c442d5$843f6170$d82c2104@brandyscomp> <40B497C0.5080205@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy - I have an idea Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:15:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I will definitely be going, if only to listen to my husband sizzle beside me. :-) This is his time period, and he'll be watching the armor choices/fighting like a hawk. Should make for an interesting discussion in the car after... Sheridan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy - I have an idea > Arthur? in plate mail, and Guinivere in Gor-bondage stuff! Eeegad! > If this was tongue-in-cheek, that would be one thing, but it sounds like > they think they're taking themselves seriously! Jaysus! > --sue, who thinks she'll wait for "88 cent Tuesday" at the local video > rental place > > Brandy Deming wrote: > > OMG!!! That is something else... what is she supposed to be? or was the real > > costume designer sick that day? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Cynthia Virtue" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 5:52 PM > > Subject: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy - I have an idea > > > > > > > >>AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > >> > >>>And then there's the previews. "Arthur.....the truth behind the myth" > >>> > >>>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! You should see what they are > > > > wearing! > > > >>http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/kingarthur.html > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 10:29:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QETqRM013041 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 10:29:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QERwNX018672 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 08:27:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QERof3063492; Wed, 26 May 2004 08:27:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QERjf4063450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 08:27:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4QERL2x012760 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 10:27:21 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 26 May 2004 10:27:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B4A961.9030907@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:27:45 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur movie References: <103.46a90301.2de53a04@aol.com> <40B3EA56.7050301@thibault.org><022e01c442d5$843f6170$d82c2104@brandyscomp> <40B497C0.5080205@in-tch.com> <025c01c4432b$f88a89a0$cb6afea9@sherry> In-Reply-To: <025c01c4432b$f88a89a0$cb6afea9@sherry> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'll probably go see it. The evidence for King Arthur is so scant, that I consider the stories as we now know them to be a work of fantasy that's been in development for 1600 years. So I'm ok with fantasy costuming for it. That said, if you're a warrior princess, you need a sturdy outfit that you don't slip out of easily. Xena's outfit was sexy, but it stayed on! This one seems far less practical. And let's not talk about sunburn. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 10:43:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QEhIRM013131 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 10:43:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QEgdNX020240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 08:42:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QEgaf3074442; Wed, 26 May 2004 08:42:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.NET [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QEgVf3074383 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 08:42:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0326.dialsprint.net ([63.186.145.72]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BSzbw-0003kd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 May 2004 10:42:29 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:43:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy - I have an idea From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <022e01c442d5$843f6170$d82c2104@brandyscomp> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i4QEgVf3074383 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, since the website claims the film tells the Arthur story "with attention to realism," OBVIOUSLY she's supposed to be real! Just another support for that book that claimed the gods were actually visitors from another planet--was it Chariots of the Gods?--so, apparently, were the "people" of the Arthur legend! At any rate, if she's real she's from someplace other than earth. --a "real" wet dream, maybe? I'm glad somebody has access to the "truth" behind myth. I thought only Joseph Campbell could claim that.... --Tongue-firmly-in-cheek posting from Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer on 5/25/04 11:57 PM, Brandy Deming at queenscorner@verizon.net wrote: > OMG!!! That is something else... what is she supposed to be? or was the real > costume designer sick that day? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cynthia Virtue" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 5:52 PM > Subject: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy - I have an idea > > >> AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >>> And then there's the previews. "Arthur.....the truth behind the myth" >>> >>> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! You should see what they are > wearing! >> >> http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/kingarthur.html >> >> >> -- >> Cynthia Virtue and/or >> Cynthia du Pré Argent >> >> "The mind games, the isolation, the accusations about being unfaithful, >> the obsessive keeping track, preventing the other person from getting a >> job... We're in an abusive relationship with the Bush Administration!" >> -- Sparrow to Stuart, DTWOF >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 11:08:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QF8gRM013344 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 11:08:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QF83NX022792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 09:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QF7xf3093506; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:07:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav38.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.95]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QF7Pf3093081 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:07:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 26 May 2004 08:07:21 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.97 by bay1-dav38.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 26 May 2004 15:07:21 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.97] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200405211719.AA24510634@thrednedlestrete.com><006801c43fbd$a1dcfdc0$2490d6cb@ewalpole> <200405252109.19603.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: Weight of underwear (was Re: [h-cost] Foaming at the mouth) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:06:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 May 2004 15:07:21.0714 (UTC) FILETIME=[250BCD20:01C44333] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO NO. He said UNDERWEAR was 11lbs. I'm sure if he threw in the dress weight it would have gone up to 35lbs. If he meant something else he should have said it. Not adlibbed if he wasn't sure. B~ ============================= http://kristalori.com Book Sale! http://www.livejournal.com/users/jaie/100006.html ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" > Perhaps they meant to say that 11 lbs was the weight of all the clothes a > woman wore--not just the underwear? > > -- > Cathy Raymond _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 11:09:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QF9FRM013349 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 11:09:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QF8YNX022874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 09:08:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QF8Xf3094049; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:08:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QF7Kf3093077 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:07:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 59C585CC787; Wed, 26 May 2004 11:07:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0305.floodcity.net [198.93.212.51]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B01CF5CC7E5 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 11:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B4B216.368EC785@floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:04:54 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Antique fabrics References: <4.1.20040525140905.01ce2820@mail.frys.com> <4.1.20040525140905.01ce2820@mail.frys.com> <4.1.20040525212032.00cc42a0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO LOL, yeah, I've done that sometimes. good idea. Kitty Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > you might ask the person doing doll clothes what she > >bases her choices on, you might find her more likeminded than you think. > > I hang around with lots of dollmakers these days, and they aren't on that > point. I go into denial about this, because I otherwise like the people, > and change the subject. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 11:27:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QFR3RM013456 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 11:27:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QFQ2NX024819 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 09:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QFQ0f3008136; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:26:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80511.mail.yahoo.com (web80511.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4QFPwf3008050 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:25:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040526152552.38800.qmail@web80511.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.104.228.236] by web80511.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 May 2004 08:25:52 PDT Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:25:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405260703.i4Q72uf4050240@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Questions about 1530s German dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heidi wrote: I will be constructing a gown in this style http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/c/cranach/lucas_e/9/04judith.html for a friend. I have some questions about the bodice and skirt construction: In some portraits from the same era, the white area of the torso is obviously the chemise (or made to look this way), and in other portraits (such as the one above), the white area is smooth as if there were a stomacher (for lack of a better word) under the lacing. Is the band across the breasts (is this a plastron?) attached to the bodice or is it worn underneath, and if so, how was it kept smooth beneath the bodice? Is the bodice separate from the skirt or attached? Is the pleated front of the skirt simply attached to a narrow waistband (that can't be seen in the portraits)? Thanks in advance for any help! Hi Heidi-- In order of your questions, firstly the entire "thing" under the lacing is the plastron, and includes the breastband. In most of the Cranach-style dresses I've seen/built, the plastron is permanently attached on one side, hooks under the trim on the other side, and then the laces go over that to help hold the dress closed and properly fit. The dress is, of course, worn over a chemise (frequently not very visible on Cranach's paintings). The plastron itself is not necessarily smooth; the plastron on one friend's dress is backed with undyed fustian (to help give support) but the outer layer is very fine linen that has very fine, smocking-style pleats in it. The bodice and skirt are built separately, then attached almost all the way around, and the very narrow waistband is hidden under the front of the bodice and the plastron when the gown is worn. I've always seen these dresses made with a side-opening skirt to accomodate this type of construction. The skirts that Cranach paints are organ-pleated, but I've seen many Cranach-style dresses constructed with cartridge pleats, padded cartridge pleats, and a host of other styles of pleating. For TONS of information on this particular style of dress, the best place to go is the GermanRenCostume list at Yahoo: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GermanRenCostume/ A number of people on this list are also on that list, and in their message archives you can find encyclopedic information on every aspect of German Renaissance costume. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 11:30:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QFU7RM013469 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 11:30:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QFSGNX025058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 09:28:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QFSEf3009884; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:28:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QFSAf3009848 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:28:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 79B5C5CCA29; Wed, 26 May 2004 11:28:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0305.floodcity.net [198.93.212.51]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 870395CC7A0 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 11:28:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B4B6DF.7D24ACF@floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:25:19 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns References: <200405241048.i4OAma0Z075422@net.indra.com><40B41730.1090708@verizon.net> <3518.198.93.212.26.1085579655.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> <007401c4432a$e7cc7480$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh my so many different terms to learn. how funny. thanks. Kitty Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hi. > This support would be a crinoline cage. Hooped petticoat. > > Bjarne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:54 PM > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns > > > now you've brought up a question that has been in my mind for quite a > > while. when looking at the vintage patterns at past patterns or Amazon > > Drygoods, someone please tell me what is a skirt support? Maura below > > states that a certain pattern is identical to a vintage style pattern, > > "minus the skirt support" now I want to find out what that is, please. > > thanks, Kitty > > > > >> From: "Christopher Ballis" wrote: > > > > > >> >thought I'd buy the civil war underwear patterns but I'm not sure > > >> which corset pattern to take as one of my free patterns, there's 2 > > >> different styles, > > >> > > >> Niether. Both are rubbish. Spend your money on ice cream (Aldi's > > >> Havana Lane creamy chocolate), > > > > > > I beg to differ. Having made several corsets from diagrams of originals > > > (from both _Corsets and Crinolines_ and _Waisted Efforts_), at least one > > > of the Simplicity 1860's era corsets is, in fact, a period design > > > 'translated', if you will, for modern seamstresses. > > > > > > The shaped corset (9769) is what was called a French stay or sport > > > corset (for 'sportswear' or summer wear, such corsets were sometimes > > > made of one layer with applied casings). The cut is identical to a > > > corset I made 10 years ago from a diagram in _Corsets and Crinolines_ , > > > only the sizing is different. ALso, it should be noted that teh designer > > > had no control over how the pattern graders sized the corset - it is > > > actually patterned aobut 2 sizes larger than it should be, but once that > > > is accounted for, you can get a very creditable result and a period > > > silhouette. It looks simialr to Past Patterns #'s 703 (sans skirt > > > support) and 213. > > > > > > Design 5726 looks to be a similar cut. I have not tested it or even > > > looked at, however. If I were to pick one, I'd pick 9769. > > > > > > Design 7215, the gusseted stays, I have seen but not tested. It's a very > > > period design, and looks comparable to Past Patterns #'s 708 and the > > > shorter stay in 002. It is by the same designer as 9769, so I expect it > > > is as well researched and patterned. This style is definitely more > > > suited to buxom bustlines, but it is harder to assemble. > > > > > > Just because it's from a "Big Three" company doesn't mean it's garbage. > > > > > > Maura > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 11:53:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QFr7RM013549 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 11:53:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QFqVNX027719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 09:52:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QFqRf3028815; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:52:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QFqPf3028720 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 09:52:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from archaeosoft1 (c-24-16-245-183.client.comcast.net[24.16.245.183]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20040526155219011009ka0qe>; Wed, 26 May 2004 15:52:19 +0000 Message-ID: <006c01c44339$6f06a5c0$b7f51018@archaeosoft1> From: "Gia" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040524172459.56672.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> <009b01c441ba$ddf91e70$b7f51018@archaeosoft1><064901c441be$02c1bf20$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6><40B3F7A2.9010002@in-tch.com> <009501c44313$ec56fd20$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:52:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh Dianne! What a lovely idea! A lovely bias cut negligee, out of a soft plum silk satin, with a matching peignoir. No lace...a svelt, classic line, with itty bitty shoulder straps that fall and drape ever so coyly.... The pillows would be black and white silk velvet and silk satin, on a lovely *very good* faux fur bearskin rug. The fireplace would be a classic for the period, art nouveau (spelling?). *sigh* Emer \ Gia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:23 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lion In Winter > How about a lovely, soft, silky negligee and peignoir, as in the old 30's > movies? > > Dianne > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 12:13:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QGD6RM013641 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 12:13:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QGCDNX029567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 10:12:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QGB7f3042932; Wed, 26 May 2004 10:11:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QGA3f3042127 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 10:10:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id B58125CCA36; Wed, 26 May 2004 12:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0305.floodcity.net [198.93.212.51]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6715CCA0A for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 12:10:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B4C097.14697071@floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:06:47 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistbands References: <001301c44329$9502df10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO it looks like you want your skirt to ride on the hips in back and on the pelvis in front? are you going to use hooks and eyes to keep it together with the bodice? Might I suggest that you instead create a yoke which comes to the waist and dips in the front so that you have less likelihood of gapeing if you raise your arms. I think it would be more comfortable since it would give the weight of the skirt more support. to create the yoke, you would make a fitted skirt at the waiste and hip (like a straight skirt) with a matching facing, no waistband, and the skirt itself would be gathered onto it. it would take a lot of fiddling to get the skirt shaped right to match the dip in the lower edge of the yoke, but it would be easier than what you have drawn, since it would be more stable and not so likely to slip around on you. Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hi, > I posted this for another list: lumieres as well. Some person claimed that > cartridge pleating was not 18th century, but i dont know where he has his > documentation from. > I posted this for you to se. The second portrait clearly shows that > cartridge pleating was used to make the fabric go over the hoop in the > sides. > The last drawing shows how i would make the shaped waistband. This way i > could get the skirt to fit the bodice very closely, and that is my aim. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/waistband > > Bjarne > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 14:16:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QIGHRM015482 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 14:16:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QIEFNX014158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 12:14:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QIE2f3048423; Wed, 26 May 2004 12:14:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QIDvf3048231 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 12:14:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bef1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.241]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1C4CC47FE61 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 20:13:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000b01c4434d$31632360$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001301c44329$9502df10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <40B4C097.14697071@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistbands Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 20:13:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Kitty. Yes i thoaght about doing something like that. I intended to make some sewed buttonhole bars just over where the tabs starts on the bodice, and then i would sew on some hooks to the skirt so that it keeps the curves at the hips and that it wont slit down. The big question is how did they do it back in 18th century. I keep on reading that the courtdress was split up in bodice and skirt, and the example of Sophia Magdalenas wedding dress and her coronation dress is seperate bodice and skirt. But sometimes i wonder if some examples could have ben made up with sewed on skirt to the bodice. At least at the hips! This is very difficult matter! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty Felton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistbands > it looks like you want your skirt to ride on the hips in back and on the > pelvis in front? are you going to use hooks and eyes to keep it > together with the bodice? > > Might I suggest that you instead create a yoke which comes to the waist > and dips in the front so that you have less likelihood of gapeing if you > raise your arms. I think it would be more comfortable since it would > give the weight of the skirt more support. > to create the yoke, you would make a fitted skirt at the waiste and hip > (like a straight skirt) with a matching facing, no waistband, and the > skirt itself would be gathered onto it. it would take a lot of > fiddling to get the skirt shaped right to match the dip in the lower > edge of the yoke, but it would be easier than what you have drawn, since > it would be more stable and not so likely to slip around on you. > > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I posted this for another list: lumieres as well. Some person claimed that > > cartridge pleating was not 18th century, but i dont know where he has his > > documentation from. > > I posted this for you to se. The second portrait clearly shows that > > cartridge pleating was used to make the fabric go over the hoop in the > > sides. > > The last drawing shows how i would make the shaped waistband. This way i > > could get the skirt to fit the bodice very closely, and that is my aim. > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/waistband > > > > Bjarne > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 14:43:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QIhnRM015700 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 14:43:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QIfvNX016802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 12:41:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QIfsf3070803; Wed, 26 May 2004 12:41:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QIfJf3070387 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 12:41:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bef1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.241]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 588A047FE92 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 20:41:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c44351$0981a5c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 20:41:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] waistbands for skirts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry for being a pestilense with this, but if you take a look at this portrait: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/es1eng.htm You clearly sees a thin waistband round the bodice! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 14:47:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QIlSRM015712 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 14:47:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QIknNX017231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 12:46:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QIkmf3074623; Wed, 26 May 2004 12:46:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QIkjf3074544 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 12:46:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1e8.2174c54c (4459) for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 14:46:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1e8.2174c54c.2de6400f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:46:39 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistbands for skirts To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/26/04 1:42:49 PM Central Daylight Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: Sorry for being a pestilense with this, but if you take a look at this portrait: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/es1eng.htm You clearly sees a thin waistband round the bodice! Bjarne What I see in that portrait looks more like piping around the bottom edge of the bodice, but that's JMO. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 14:54:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QIsYRM015759 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 14:54:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QIqWNX017775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 12:52:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QIqTf3079172; Wed, 26 May 2004 12:52:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QIqQf3079114 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 12:52:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bef1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.241]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9FAF85EE081 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 20:52:23 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000501c44352$96be4e10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1e8.2174c54c.2de6400f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistbands for skirts Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 20:52:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Interresting you say that, on Sophia Magdalenas wedding dress bodice there is a silk cord round the waist. So this would perhaps be a common thing to do. And guess what. All my considerations are solved, because i tryed to meassure round my bodice at the place where i want the skirt to go, guess what? It is the smallest meassure precisely where the skirt is going!!!!!! So all my troubbles are over. The skirt wont slit down from the hips, simply because the bodice is broader beneath the skirt line................ Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistbands for skirts > In a message dated 5/26/04 1:42:49 PM Central Daylight Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > Sorry for being a pestilense with this, but if you take a look at this > portrait: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/es1eng.htm > You clearly sees a thin waistband round the bodice! > > Bjarne > > > What I see in that portrait looks more like piping around the bottom edge of > the bodice, but that's JMO. > > -Tiffany > Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. > ******************************* > Reflections*of*Worth > http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 15:49:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QJnbRM016045 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 15:49:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QJmbNX024015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 13:48:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QJmSf3025205; Wed, 26 May 2004 13:48:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net (invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.254]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QJmOf3025147 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 13:48:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from madlystitching@earthlink.net) Received: from 209-165-57-075.jps.net ([209.165.57.75] helo=stephen) by invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BT4Nz-0003HV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 May 2004 12:48:24 -0700 Message-ID: <001101c44359$d6a98240$4b39a5d1@stephen> From: "Stephen Bergdahl" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT weather was: Lion in Winter DVD Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:44:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-ELNK-Trace: 08dba192340bde6e1a6ab3b9b70940f894f5150ab1c16ac08bb5361f5afbff604d99278c9d339bc11bc33693fea923a2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So I don't suppose this is the time to complain that it's only been in the high 70's with cool breezes. Which is on the cool side for here in California. Stephen Bergdahl "They moved the Oscars to Sunday, it'll still end on Monday." Billy Crystal. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT weather was: Lion in Winter DVD > > On Tue, 25 May 2004, otsisto wrote: > > > Yesterday a tornado touched down in Linn, MO which is north of me. We > > got hit pretty hard last night through this morning into the afternoon > > with thunderstorms. My back yard is lowest in the neighborhood so now > > I have a bog working it's way towards a Florida style swamp. :P We're > > suppose to get a break Wed. and it starts up again Thurs. to Sat. Well > > as they say, we live in the state of misery, right next to the state > > of ill noise. :) > > I'm a bit east of you in Misery -- I mean, Missouri -- and by the time > those storms got here, they were dumping marble-sized hail. The hailstones > (and the leaves they brought down) clogged a drain behind our house, > leading the water to back up into our basement. I spent the afternoon > shifting boxes out of harm's way ... in the dark, because the power was > out. (My 10-year-old held the flashlight, and we both went squitch squitch > over the cold wet carpet, barefoot). > > I am happy to report that the fabric stash was on the dry side of the > basement, and appears to have escaped; the damp is still creeping through > the carpet, but I've moved everything up and over and am keeping close > watch. My husband's office took most of the brunt. Now my worry is mildew. > > There was a waterfall and a pond in the back yard (a landscaping > surprise!), and the house has so many new leaves stuck to the outside > walls it looks like patterned wallpaper. My nasturtiums were hacked to > pieces. The garage has an inch of standing water. Still, after seeing > the downed trees (some on roofs and houses) a few roads over, we feel > lucky. And even that is nothing compared to what's been happening in > Nebraska and Iowa. > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 17:21:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QLLQRM016511 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 17:21:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QLJUNX003491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 15:19:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QLJJf3096228; Wed, 26 May 2004 15:19:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QLJGf3096184 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 15:19:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id D3B875CC846; Wed, 26 May 2004 17:19:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (webmail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.62]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 520C05CCA2B for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 17:19:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 198.93.211.159 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Wed, 26 May 2004 17:19:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1600.198.93.211.159.1085606356.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:19:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistbands From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.211.159 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.08 [en] (Win98; I) In-Reply-To: <000b01c4434d$31632360$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <001301c44329$9502df10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <40B4C097.14697071@floodcity.net> <000b01c4434d$31632360$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, I see. yeah, you would think that the state clothing would have been preserved, given our love of museums and stuff wouldn't you? I always wonder what ever happened to all that fabric and elegant stuff, you would think it would never wear out. I hope you figure it out. Kitty > Dear Kitty. > Yes i thoaght about doing something like that. I intended to make some > sewed buttonhole bars just over where the tabs starts on the bodice, and > then i would sew on some hooks to the skirt so that it keeps the curves > at the hips and that it wont slit down. > The big question is how did they do it back in 18th century. I keep on > reading that the courtdress was split up in bodice and skirt, and the > example of Sophia Magdalenas wedding dress and her coronation dress is > seperate bodice and skirt. But sometimes i wonder if some examples could > have ben made up with sewed on skirt to the bodice. At least at the > hips! > > This is very difficult matter! > > Bjarne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kitty Felton" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:06 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistbands > > >> it looks like you want your skirt to ride on the hips in back and on >> the pelvis in front? are you going to use hooks and eyes to keep it >> together with the bodice? >> >> Might I suggest that you instead create a yoke which comes to the >> waist and dips in the front so that you have less likelihood of >> gapeing if you raise your arms. I think it would be more comfortable >> since it would give the weight of the skirt more support. >> to create the yoke, you would make a fitted skirt at the waiste and >> hip (like a straight skirt) with a matching facing, no waistband, and >> the skirt itself would be gathered onto it. it would take a lot of >> fiddling to get the skirt shaped right to match the dip in the lower >> edge of the yoke, but it would be easier than what you have drawn, >> since it would be more stable and not so likely to slip around on you. >> >> >> Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >> > >> > Hi, >> > I posted this for another list: lumieres as well. Some person >> claimed > that >> > cartridge pleating was not 18th century, but i dont know where he >> has > his >> > documentation from. >> > I posted this for you to se. The second portrait clearly shows that >> cartridge pleating was used to make the fabric go over the hoop in >> the sides. >> > The last drawing shows how i would make the shaped waistband. This >> way i could get the skirt to fit the bodice very closely, and that >> is my aim. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/waistband >> > >> > Bjarne >> > >> > Leif og Bjarne Drews >> > www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> > >> > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > h-costume mailing list >> > h-costume@mail.indra.com >> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 17:56:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QLuPRM016711 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 17:56:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QLtkNX007300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 15:55:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QLtgf3025187; Wed, 26 May 2004 15:55:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f40.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QLtef3025113 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 15:55:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 26 May 2004 14:55:35 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 26 May 2004 21:55:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:55:35 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 May 2004 21:55:35.0710 (UTC) FILETIME=[2C9AFBE0:01C4436C] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Briseis: Troy - I have an idea X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" >I quite enjoyed it. I liked the fact that they didn't completely change all >the characters to suit Hollywood (despite them having to find a girlfriend >for Achilles and have him die at the wrong time). They -changed- the character of Briseis considerably, but they didn't have to look really very hard to "find" her. The whole bickering back and forth between Achilles and Agamemnon over her is generally in the story. I'm pretty sure that he died after the death of Hector, which comes at the end of the Illiad :) Heck he was even shot by Paris :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 18:11:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QMB8RM016814 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 18:11:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QMAFNX008769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 16:10:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QMACf3035759; Wed, 26 May 2004 16:10:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav12.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QM9vf3035497 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 16:10:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 26 May 2004 15:09:50 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav12.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 26 May 2004 22:09:49 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy - I have an idea Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:10:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 May 2004 22:09:50.0109 (UTC) FILETIME=[29DDECD0:01C4436E] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Oh I agree. But "Arthur" bills itself as the true story behind the myth. Which true story? The one written by that English historian trying to make English history descend from the Greeks and Romans? That was before the Arthurian legend we know of, and AFAIK he didn't base his history on any serious fact, and everything else since was based on that supposed "history of the English people" or whatever it was called. There IS no true story behind the myth. Only theories of what might have been the inspirations of the guy who wrote the history of England somewhere in the 10th? 12th? century... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 18:17:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QMHnRM016850 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 18:17:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QMHENX009400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 16:17:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QMHCf3040832; Wed, 26 May 2004 16:17:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QMGcf3040404 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 16:16:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from 39jz301 ([69.195.101.32]) by fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040526221627.RKNL392202.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 18:16:27 -0400 Message-ID: <008c01c4436f$1cfd4e10$2065c345@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Briseis: Troy - I have an idea Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:16:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [69.195.101.32] using ID at Wed, 26 May 2004 18:16:27 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > They -changed- the character of Briseis considerably, but they didn't have > to look really very hard to "find" her. The whole bickering back and forth > between Achilles and Agamemnon over her is generally in the story. Yep, she's in there. Not so much as a love interest, though, which is where the girlfriend part comes in. The deep bonds of affection involving Achilles in the Iliad involve Patroclus. I was happy to see they at least had him in there and that they were obviously close, and that Patroclus did die wearing Achilles' armour. > I'm pretty sure that he died after the death of Hector, which comes at the > end of the Illiad :) Heck he was even shot by Paris :) But of course, the horse episode is not in the Illiad. I think Achilles is gone by the time Troy is finally taken. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 18:25:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QMPhRM016871 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 18:25:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QMP6NX010105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 16:25:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QMP3f3046180; Wed, 26 May 2004 16:25:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QMOxf3046101 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 16:24:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA11307 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 17:24:56 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] King Arthur Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:24:56 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I believe the story is only "true" as far as being set in the 5th-6th century where there are one or two candidates that may have been the original leaders of the time that evolved into the legend of King Arthur. I remember reading recently in Entertainment Weekly that the director had to coax the costume designer into designing at least one costume for Guineuer that showed off the actresses midriff--Got to give those 12-13 year-old boys that are supposed to be the biggest sector of the movie-going public eye candy, I suppose as authentic 5th-6th century Brit costume recreations wouldn't be putting those production values up onscreen and it never has been. Alas, not too many "costume dramas" up on the big screen this summer to critique--and Vanity Fair and Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow(30's-inspired costumes)won't be out til Sep. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 19:13:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QNDURM017105 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 19:13:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QNCGNX014591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 17:12:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QNCDf3079639; Wed, 26 May 2004 17:12:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QNCAf3079609 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 17:12:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB01528EC8 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 18:12:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p125.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.127]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id EDC70C419 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 18:12:07 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:12:22 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- I predict a lot more blue face paint at Ren-fest this fall. Not to mention chain mail bikinis, God help us. -Tiffany Probably leather strip bikinis and macronaed to look like leather bikinis. :) De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 19:24:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QNOBRM017138 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 19:24:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QNMQNX015952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 17:22:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QNMPf3086178; Wed, 26 May 2004 17:22:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QNMKf3086087 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 17:22:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id 6.3e.3f854d8d (4246) for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 19:22:11 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <3e.3f854d8d.2de680a2@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:22:10 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4QNOBRM017138 Status: RO In a message dated 5/26/2004 7:12:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, otsisto@socket.net writes: > I predict a lot more blue face paint at Ren-fest this fall. > > > Not to mention chain mail bikinis, God help us. > > -Tiffany > > Probably leather strip bikinis and macronaed to look like leather bikinis. > :) > I envision a couple of years from now this "CLEARANCE CLOTHING: prices slashed!" booth with dozens of leather macramé bikinis... and red beaded "Jump" dresses... and "Gandolf the Grey" robes.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 19:38:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QNc2RM017205 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 19:38:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QNaeNX018336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 17:36:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QNaaf3094396; Wed, 26 May 2004 17:36:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QNaYf3094355 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 17:36:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.111] (pm7-111.eos.net [205.133.149.111]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4QNaP57000473 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 19:36:30 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:35:10 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200405260703.i4Q72uf4050240@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 381 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 5/26/04 Albert Cat wrote: > Oh I agree. But "Arthur" bills itself as the true story behind the myth. > > Yeah....right. When a movie bills itself as the "true story behind the myth," I rank it right up with movies of books that use the author's name, ie: "Bram Stoker's Dracula." You just know the movie will have no relation to either. On a funny note . . . did you know that the comedy movie "Mafia" was originall called "Jane Austin's Mafia"? All the Jane Austin movies were in vogue, and of course the name was hilarious, but the Hollywood types thought people wouldn't get it. Oh well. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 20:12:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4R0CrRM017328 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 20:12:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R0AvNX023212 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 18:10:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R0Asf3013495; Wed, 26 May 2004 18:10:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R0Aqf3013471 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 18:10:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.148] (pm5-148.eos.net [205.133.149.148]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4R0Ao56009830 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 20:10:50 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 20:09:34 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200405261400.i4QE0Hf4045366@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 382 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >>> >>>> And then there's the previews. "Arthur.....the truth behind the myth" >>>> >>>> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! You should see what they are >> >> wearing! >> >>> http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/kingarthur.html > > I couldn't hold out any longer. I looked. Yipes! I guess the "strappy" look was in that year for armor. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 20:14:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4R0EARM017336 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 20:14:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R0DcNX023975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 18:13:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R0Dbf3014912; Wed, 26 May 2004 18:13:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R0Cnf4014484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 18:12:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4R0T5rp030677 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 20:29:06 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040526171122.07d480b8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:12:46 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance In-Reply-To: <20040526152552.38800.qmail@web80511.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200405260703.i4Q72uf4050240@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pleating X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What's the difference between organ-pleating and cartridge-pleating. I thought that they were the same. Katie > The skirts that Cranach paints are organ-pleated, but I've seen many > Cranach-style dresses constructed with cartridge pleats, padded cartridge > pleats, and a host of other styles of pleating. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 20:17:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4R0HqRM017345 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 20:17:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R0HNNX024241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 18:17:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R0HKf3016775; Wed, 26 May 2004 18:17:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R0HIf4016747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 18:17:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4R0XYrp032009 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 20:33:35 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040526171319.07f249d0@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:17:15 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistband for skirts In-Reply-To: <3705.198.93.213.53.1085540650.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.n et> References: <40B3FC86.8080006@in-tch.com> <001101c44280$457ddca0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <40B3FC86.8080006@in-tch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wouldn't this result in something much like a yoked skirt? It seems to me that if one built something similar to a yoked skirt, fit to the waistline but with the pleating beginning further down, one wouldn't have extra fabric bunching up under the lower part of the bodice, giving a slimmer shape. Or am I not seeing this correctly? I'm certainly not suggesting that it would be period. Katie >I had a skirt once with a Very wide waistband seven or eight >inches. it wasn't even shaped, it was basically a rectangle attached to >the skirt. now according to the pics we were seeing, a very wide >waistband on a victorian corseted figure should be fitted to the figure, >but probably wouldn't if it was a standard inch to inch and a half >waistband. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 20:46:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4R0kBRM017410 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 20:46:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R0jRNX026470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 18:45:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R0jIf3032008; Wed, 26 May 2004 18:45:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R0jEf3031983 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 18:45:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from karoleesmiley@earthlink.net) Received: from h-68-164-84-201.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.164.84.201] helo=earthlink.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BT91F-00029J-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 May 2004 17:45:13 -0700 Message-ID: <40B53A18.8050603@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:45:12 -0700 From: Karolee Smiley User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Troy - I have an idea References: <63.2c852bfb.2de4e3f6@aol.com><200405252027.09456.cathy@thyrsus.com><018d01c442ce$1f6fe6e0$82159b04@HELENPINTO> <200405260010.00814.cathy@thyrsus.com> <005801c442ec$aa94a580$97725651@bella> In-Reply-To: <005801c442ec$aa94a580$97725651@bella> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Something to consider: Most Greek artwork depicting the Trojan War are from the classic era. The Trojan war is bronze age. The fashion was completely different, more minoan in style. I can dig up my class notes if anyone wants more info. I did several reaserach projects in college on bronze age greece (but that was... 15+ years ago) Karolee Smiley Linda Walton wrote: >The only illustration I can find to hand in a hurry is of an early 5th >century Attic red-figure cup in the Louvre (G115). It shows the duel >between Ajax and Hektor at Troy, with Athene supporting Ajax and Apollo >supporting Hektor. > >Ajax has a complicated outfit, including lots of armour and what looks like >two kilts - one shorter than the other - with handkerchief points and lots >of narrow pleats. Hektor the Trojan is completely naked, except for a >Greek-style helmet, sword and round shield, and his scabbard - which is hung >from a long strap over one shoulder. This very narrow strap seems to have a >couple of short tassels hanging at either side where it crosses his abdomen. >Nothing else at all. > >So - who played Ajax in the film? Was he dressed as this Greek cup imagines >him? Would the audience have wanted to see that? > >Linda Walton, >(in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K., >who thinks she may have to get round to seeing this film after all . . .). > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 21:27:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4R1RYRM017643 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 21:27:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R1QwNX029139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 19:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R1Quf3053059; Wed, 26 May 2004 19:26:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail1.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.75]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R1Qkf3052922 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 19:26:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@cybergal.com) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) by mail1.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4R1QjIY005251 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 01:26:45 GMT Received: from ctrlalt ([69.140.51.41]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Wed, 26 May 2004 20:26:43 -0500 From: "A.Thurman" To: Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 21:26:31 -0400 Message-ID: <011601c44389$a4ad2e10$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] More 1930s costume movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok, so no one is keen on the costumes in "King Arthur" (except maybe the aforementioned 12 year old boys) - But can anyone speak to whether the over-the-top 1920s-30s costumes in "Bright Young Things" or "De-Lovely" were correct - or indeed, can anyone speak to whether the movies are any good at all? I've only recently seen the trailers and thought they were new, but IMDB gives the impression that they're both already out - and somehow skipped my local theater entirely :( Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 22:32:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4R2WmRM018406 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 22:32:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R2UtNX003407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 20:30:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R2Upf3085116; Wed, 26 May 2004 20:30:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4R2Unf3085092 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 20:30:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2004 02:30:49 -0000 Message-ID: <027201c44392$7e0ca2a0$91e67643@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040523.214337.-407941.1.lisa58@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:29:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks so much Lisa. I think this may help me find the info for my friend's daughter. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa A Ashton" To: Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 9:08 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein's portraits of Henry VIII wives > Try Antonia Fraser's book "The Wives of Henry VIII". There are all the > famous portraits (in color), plus other less-famous portraits of them, > plus it is about the best book I"ve read on the subject. Fraser is > amazing. The recent History channel mini-series about Henry VIII and his > wives by that British so-called historian was crap, I don't think they > even got the costumes right. They certainly didn't get the hair color > right! > > This is one of my favorite time periods, having just completed a > historical reproduction of the dress that Mary Tudor is wearing in her > famous wedding portrait with Charles Brandon. I believe that there will > at some point be photos up on the Costume-Connections website for CC22 in > Atlanta this past April, the Historical MAsquerade. > > Yours in costuming, Lisa A. > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 22:57:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4R2vkRM018502 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 22:57:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R2twNX004847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 20:55:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R2tvf3096566; Wed, 26 May 2004 20:55:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R2ttf3096511 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 20:55:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from 39jz301 ([69.195.101.32]) by fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040527025550.TRRD392202.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 22:55:50 -0400 Message-ID: <003f01c44396$21827650$2065c345@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <63.2c852bfb.2de4e3f6@aol.com><200405252027.09456.cathy@thyrsus.com><018d01c442ce$1f6fe6e0$82159b04@HELENPINTO> <200405260010.00814.cathy@thyrsus.com><005801c442ec$aa94a580$97725651@bella> <40B53A18.8050603@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Troy - I have an idea Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 22:55:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [69.195.101.32] using ID at Wed, 26 May 2004 22:55:50 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > Most Greek artwork depicting the Trojan War are from the classic era. > The Trojan war is bronze age. The fashion was completely different, > more minoan in style. Of course, Homer was writing much closer to the classical period than he was to the Bronze Age. I suspect he probably described clothing and armor in the terms he was familiar with. Dark ages Greece. Now there's a REAL "dark age" for you.... Susan fondly remembering my Bronze Age Greece class as an undergrad _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 23:18:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4R3HxRM018584 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 23:18:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R3G7NX005947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 21:16:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R3G5f3006180; Wed, 26 May 2004 21:16:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R3G4f3006146 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 21:16:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id DDD0E5CC3DA; Wed, 26 May 2004 23:16:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0060.floodcity.net [198.93.211.60]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 792845CC795 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 23:16:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B55CE7.166E10BD@floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:13:43 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistband for skirts References: <40B3FC86.8080006@in-tch.com> <001101c44280$457ddca0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <40B3FC86.8080006@in-tch.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040526171319.07f249d0@mail.katiesorchids.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO LOL, what I had was a waistband that went from the waist clear up to my bosom. Don't ask me, I was 15 at the time and it was a hand me down. if I didn't have a long waist, it would have come up to my armpits, I guess. Remember a skirt usually comes up to the waist and the waistband isn't centered on the waist, it comes down TO the waist to meet the skirt. if it was below the waist and was fitted it would be a yoke, if a narrow band that lay on the hip, I suppose it would be a hip band. Katie Pleasance wrote: > > Wouldn't this result in something much like a yoked skirt? It seems to me > that if one built something similar to a yoked skirt, fit to the waistline > but with the pleating beginning further down, one wouldn't have extra > fabric bunching up under the lower part of the bodice, giving a slimmer > shape. Or am I not seeing this correctly? I'm certainly not suggesting that > it would be period. > > Katie > > >I had a skirt once with a Very wide waistband seven or eight > >inches. it wasn't even shaped, it was basically a rectangle attached to > >the skirt. now according to the pics we were seeing, a very wide > >waistband on a victorian corseted figure should be fitted to the figure, > >but probably wouldn't if it was a standard inch to inch and a half > >waistband. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 26 23:55:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4R3tBRM018812 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 23:55:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R3mHNX007699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 21:48:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R3m8f3021842; Wed, 26 May 2004 21:48:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R3m6f3021796 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 21:48:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20nn.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.247] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BTBsE-0005jo-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 26 May 2004 20:48:06 -0700 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20040526161930.02205008@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:21:09 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200405260042.i4Q0gEf4054276@net.indra.com> References: <200405260042.i4Q0gEf4054276@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tornados X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As of Saturday night the town of Hallam, NE isn't anymore. (about 25 miles SW of us, population about 300) Also, a rural school district near there lost most of its infrastructure - high, middle, and elementary school buildings, a greenhouse, and the bus barn full of buses. School had let out for the year the day before, but they probably won't be able to complete repairs before next year starts. On a happier note, while a horse barn in the area was destroyed, the 24 purebred Arabians inside escaped with only minor injuries, save one with a broken leg. Just goes to show how unpredictable tornadoes are. Pierre and Sandy "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 00:41:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4R4fmRM019381 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 00:41:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R4fBNX011431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 22:41:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R4f8f3047296; Wed, 26 May 2004 22:41:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R4f5f3047278 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 22:41:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C401CDCE for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 23:41:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p059.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.61]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6DCE4D3F3 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 23:41:04 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT weather was: Lion in Winter DVD Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:41:19 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My husband told me about the Linn tornado and said north. We are actually north of Linn. Today was suppose to be a day of no rain, so much for that hope. Rained on and off. At least it didn't down pour and flood the basement again. We normally have a dehumidifier running so that helps. I spray the carpet with Lysol or Clorox spray and periodically shopvac that area to dry it faster. I spray shampoo the rug when it is very damp to dry. My fabric is up and out of reach. De -----Original Message----- On Tue, 25 May 2004, otsisto wrote: > Yesterday a tornado touched down in Linn, MO which is north of me. We > got hit pretty hard last night through this morning into the afternoon > with thunderstorms. My back yard is lowest in the neighborhood so now > I have a bog working it's way towards a Florida style swamp. :P We're > suppose to get a break Wed. and it starts up again Thurs. to Sat. Well > as they say, we live in the state of misery, right next to the state > of ill noise. :) I'm a bit east of you in Misery -- I mean, Missouri -- and by the time those storms got here, they were dumping marble-sized hail. The hailstones (and the leaves they brought down) clogged a drain behind our house, leading the water to back up into our basement. I spent the afternoon shifting boxes out of harm's way ... in the dark, because the power was out. (My 10-year-old held the flashlight, and we both went squitch squitch over the cold wet carpet, barefoot). I am happy to report that the fabric stash was on the dry side of the basement, and appears to have escaped; the damp is still creeping through the carpet, but I've moved everything up and over and am keeping close watch. My husband's office took most of the brunt. Now my worry is mildew. There was a waterfall and a pond in the back yard (a landscaping surprise!), and the house has so many new leaves stuck to the outside walls it looks like patterned wallpaper. My nasturtiums were hacked to pieces. The garage has an inch of standing water. Still, after seeing the downed trees (some on roofs and houses) a few roads over, we feel lucky. And even that is nothing compared to what's been happening in Nebraska and Iowa. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 00:52:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4R4qDRM019629 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 00:52:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R4pVNX012102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 May 2004 22:51:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R4pUf3052068; Wed, 26 May 2004 22:51:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R4pRf3052047 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 22:51:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBA541CE72 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 23:51:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p059.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.61]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C752D3F0 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 23:51:26 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] King Arthur was: RE: Troy Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:51:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3e.3f854d8d.2de680a2@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO LOL! De -----Original Message----- I envision a couple of years from now this "CLEARANCE CLOTHING: prices slashed!" booth with dozens of leather macramé bikinis... and red beaded "Jump" dresses... and "Gandolf the Grey" robes.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 02:29:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4R6TNRM001104 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 02:29:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R6NVNX017382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 00:23:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R6NRf3092955; Thu, 27 May 2004 00:23:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.connectnet.com (cn7.connectnet.com [207.110.3.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4R6NOf3092915 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 00:23:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@cts.com) Received: (qmail 12894 invoked from network); 27 May 2004 06:23:19 -0000 Received: from cts-san21612000499.cts.com (HELO Julie) (216.120.4.99) by cn7.connectnet.com with SMTP; 27 May 2004 06:23:19 -0000 From: "Julie" To: Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:23:38 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <200405261400.i4QE0Hf5045366@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] King Arthur X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >In a message dated 5/25/04 11:27:06 PM Central Daylight Time, >dawn@reddawn.net writes: >I predict a lot more blue face paint at Ren-fest this fall. > > >Not to mention chain mail bikinis, God help us. > >-Tiffany Our most recent faire, in addition to chain mail bikinis, had a couple of gals wearing one whole rabbit skin. Most of it went into the bottom with a couple of poofs for the top...and she was skinny with a little belly. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 02:43:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4R6hJRM007401 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 02:43:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R6fSNX018402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 00:41:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R6fRf3001524; Thu, 27 May 2004 00:41:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtaw4.prodigy.net (mtaw4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R6fPf3001514 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 00:41:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-91-94.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.91.94]) by mtaw4.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4R6fMrp001350 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 23:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20040526234146.01b89f00@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:42:44 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur In-Reply-To: References: <200405261400.i4QE0Hf5045366@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Our most recent faire, in addition to chain mail bikinis, had a couple of >gals wearing one whole rabbit skin. Most of it went into the bottom with a >couple of poofs for the top...and she was skinny with a little belly. We used to call this the "two frightened squirrels" school of barbarian costuming. But at least some breeds of bunny are on the large side. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 04:42:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4R8gFRM018664 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 04:42:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R8dPNX025559 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 02:39:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R8dGf3053418; Thu, 27 May 2004 02:39:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R8dCf3053325 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 02:39:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.248]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4R8ctNZ024781 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 18:38:57 +1000 Message-ID: <000c01c443c5$a91720a0$f890d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb question Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:43:27 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:30 AM Subject: [h-cost] Garb question > Thank you. > I had found not to long back a site that showed their interpretation of the > garment. I guess if I find it back I find it back. > Thank you again, much appreciated. > De > If you want a pattern for a men's Waffenrock Kass McGann (www.reconstructinghistory.com click on the patterns section) is planning on releasing a commercial pattern for this sometime very soon (IIRC it's in her coming soon section and is due to be released May 2004, *g* which means it shouldn't be too long) I'm very tempted by her pattern for the Effigy corset but first I've got to pay my mum back for my last SCA related mail order from the USA. If you're interested in authenticity Kass is a good person to go to she is a fabulous resource on all things textile related and I presume her patterns reflect her levels of expertise and interest in authenticity (I'm not affiliated, not even a customer, I just share a yahoogroup and have seen her level of expertise in answering questions from the group). If you're not interested in buying a pattern I've been told the German Ren costuming yahoogroup is a good resource, hopefully somebody else can give you their address as I've found searching Yahoo for a particular group to be next to useless. HTH Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 04:42:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4R8gcRM018678 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 04:42:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R8eZNX025600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 02:40:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R8eXf3053983; Thu, 27 May 2004 02:40:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R8dEf3053337 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 02:39:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.248]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4R8ctNb024781 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 18:39:01 +1000 Message-ID: <000d01c443c5$aa7f3c20$f890d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00df01c4420d$dc785c20$cb6afea9@sherry> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yet another bodice question Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 22:05:58 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:07 PM Subject: [h-cost] Yet another bodice question > Here's another bodice question for those of you who know what you are doing > far better than I. :-) > > I have loved this painting ever since I first found it: > http://costume.dm.net/gallery/1569.html > > Now for the dangerous part. :-) I just found today some gorgeous orange > fabric *and* some embroidered fabric that resembles her shirt. (my resolve > to not buy any more fabric until I finish at least a couple of other > projects is rapidly crumbling) > > My question is: would the young lady be wearing just a corset beneath her > bodice, or would her bodice be boned as well? If you look closely at the > picture, you can see the lacing of her shirt/partlet through the gap in her > bodice, but you can't tell if there is a corset there. ( which could be > explained by her wearing her shirt/partlet over it) Also, the bodice itself > seems to be somewhat stiff, as it looks like it stands away from her > bustline. A lady in my Barony who was recently Laureled for her research into Venetian costume (which has front lacing with something that looks like a gathered chemise showing through the gap) suggests that there may be two chemises worn. One is essentially a tube shape (possibly with gores below the waist for movement) with thin shoulder straps and no sleeves. The seccond chemise is the classic Italian gathered chemise you see in all those paintings recently discussed over whether they were drawstring or not and is worn over the corset. She has an article on her Venetian underwear here http://members.optusnet.com.au/oonaghsown/gruesome_truth.htm This is of course just one opinion on how it was done, we certainly have evidence for faked puffs of chemise in other places so there's no reason to believe this could not also have been the case here. Any way back onto the topic of English fashions in this picture you can clearly see another chemise (or possibly the corset) the decorative partlet/shirt is open from the ruff to a bit lower than her bodice in that gap you can see a horizontal line a bit above the top of the bodice It could be something else but I'm guessing it's probably a square necked chemise. The bodice does look like it has boning (at least along the front opening), but there's almost certainly a corset underneath there as well. > > Up to this point I have only dabbled my toes into the later period garments, > (usually I do Near Eastern and early period clothing) I have yet to properly > finish a full gown for fear of Getting It Wrong. This dress seems to want to > get itself made, and I need all the help I can get. :-) > Sheridan If you make a mock up of the fitted parts in cheap fabric first, there's not much that can go wrong, and even less that can't be fixed. If you're really woried buy a little extra and even if you do something like forget to add seam allowances you've got a bit left over to patch it up with. I felt the same way about 16th century garb until I gave up worrying and did it, then I found out it's not as hard as I thought. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 05:00:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4R90ERM019081 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 05:00:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R8xgNX026844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 02:59:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R8xff3061565; Thu, 27 May 2004 02:59:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R8xbf3061489 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 02:59:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.248]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4R8xXfi027387 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 18:59:34 +1000 Message-ID: <002201c443c8$89352c20$f890d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200405241048.i4OAma0Z075422@net.indra.com> <40B41730.1090708@verizon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 18:56:42 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maura Folsom" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 2:04 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Simplicity's corset patterns Design 7215, the gusseted stays, I have seen but not tested. It's a very > period design, and looks comparable to Past Patterns #'s 708 and the > shorter stay in 002. It is by the same designer as 9769, so I expect it > is as well researched and patterned. This style is definitely more > suited to buxom bustlines, but it is harder to assemble. > Just because it's from a "Big Three" company doesn't mean it's garbage. > Maura Yep I just bought this one (7215) and it definitely has a strong resemblance to the corset design in a 1830s book called the workman's guide. My apologies if I got the title or date wrong, but I'm trying to remember a reference in Norah Waugh's Corsets and Crinolines and I don't have it with me. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 05:27:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4R9R5RM019710 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 05:27:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R9PBNX028915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 03:25:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4R9P8f3071790; Thu, 27 May 2004 03:25:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20726.mail.yahoo.com (web20726.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4R9P5f3071772 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 03:25:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freyalynn@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040527092505.9898.qmail@web20726.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [195.92.168.165] by web20726.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 May 2004 02:25:05 PDT Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 02:25:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Freyalynn Close-Hainsworth To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405270841.i4R8fif5054546@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Troy X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The various stories and poems that were organised/collated by a poet or poets called Homer at some point around the 6thC BC were part of a remarkably well preserved collection of oral tales from the Bronze Age. One particular thing that leaps to mind (I, too, did Bronze Age Greece as part of my archaelogy degree) was they Homer makes specific reference to "boars' tusks helmets". Nothing resembling a helmet shaped or made of boars' tusks has been found connected to Classical Greece, but there has been found, in a Bronze Age site on mainland Greece, the remains of a helmet made of split boars' tusks. And of course, Pylos, the palace of King Nestor, no longer existed as a building or a kingdom by the Classical era. The Bronze Age costumes probably resembled Minoan more than anything, and bare breasts all through the film would have bumped the certificate right up. But Homer and his audience probably regarded the Trojan War as historical legend or legendary history, bearing in mind that the Achaeans of the Bronze Age had been a different race of people, and had been invaded and superceded by the Dorians who became the Classical Greeks. Myth is not history,much as we'd like it to be. When you think how the plays of Shakespear have costumed Caesar, Troilus, Theseus et al, we can only sit back and regard any film costumers' take with detachment, pausing only to be grateful at the odd nod towards 'authenticity'. Freyalyn --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 07:57:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RBvERM020522 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 07:57:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RBuONX006054 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 05:56:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RBuFf3033153; Thu, 27 May 2004 05:56:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RBuEf3033140 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 05:56:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B62D1CDCC for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 06:56:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p347.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.93]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DFF21D4B0 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 06:56:12 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Yet another bodice question Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 06:56:28 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <000d01c443c5$aa7f3c20$f890d6cb@ewalpole> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- Any way back onto the topic of English fashions in this picture you can clearly see another chemise (or possibly the corset) the decorative partlet/shirt is open from the ruff to a bit lower than her bodice in that gap you can see a horizontal line a bit above the top of the bodice It could be something else but I'm guessing it's probably a square necked chemise. The bodice does look like it has boning (at least along the front opening), but there's almost certainly a corset underneath there as well. ------------ My theory is that she has a partlett and detachable sleeves with the floral pattern and that the line seen is the chemise. She would have a corset but I do not believe she has boning in the bodice. It is hard to tell what is seen in the bodice gap. My two cents De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 08:24:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RCOeRM020781 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 08:24:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RCO7NX007600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 06:24:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RCO6f3045538; Thu, 27 May 2004 06:24:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RCO5f3045496 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 06:24:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from 39jz301 ([69.195.101.32]) by fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20040527122240.YSZR63200.fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@39jz301> for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 08:22:40 -0400 Message-ID: <003f01c443e5$80bb3220$2065c345@39jz301> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040527092505.9898.qmail@web20726.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Troy Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:24:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [69.195.101.32] using ID at Thu, 27 May 2004 08:22:40 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > The various stories and poems that were organised/collated by a poet or poets called Homer at some point around the 6thC BC were part of a remarkably well preserved collection of oral tales from the Bronze Age. > > One particular thing that leaps to mind (I, too, did Bronze Age Greece as part of my archaelogy degree) was they Homer makes specific reference to "boars' tusks helmets". Nothing resembling a helmet shaped or made of boars' tusks has been found connected to Classical Greece, but there has been found, in a Bronze Age site on mainland Greece, the remains of a helmet made of split boars' tusks. And of course, Pylos, the palace of King Nestor, no longer existed as a building or a kingdom by the Classical era.> The thing you have to keep in mind with all tales that circulated orally is that they do tend to pick up some details along the way that aren't necessarily true to the original period, but that other details might survive. For instance, the boars' tusks helmets may have survived because they were considered an important detail. Place-names are another good example. To figure out everything completely, you need to compare the legend with the archaeology. On the topic of the clothing--I'm curious: How sure are we that the bare-breasted Minoan fashions were the common mode of clothing for everyone? I seem to remember a debate about whether they were ceremonial-type clothing for certain religious figures and the bull jumpers, or something everyone wore. Anyone know? On a related note for Bronze Age fans--one of the best depictions I've ever seen of a Bronze Age Greek building is in _Time Bandits_. I remember just about falling out of my chair that someone had actually researched the things and put one in the movie. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 09:16:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RDG7RM020992 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:16:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RDFGNX011286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 07:15:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RDEFf3069259; Thu, 27 May 2004 07:14:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RDDCf3068542 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 07:13:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a242.in-tch.com [66.62.107.42]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4RCnAe03015 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 06:49:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40B5EA23.2080409@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 07:16:19 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yet another bodice question References: <00df01c4420d$dc785c20$cb6afea9@sherry> <000d01c443c5$aa7f3c20$f890d6cb@ewalpole> In-Reply-To: <000d01c443c5$aa7f3c20$f890d6cb@ewalpole> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What's she basing *that* on? The Bohemian Bath Babes? Or just expediency? Is there a sleeveless shift out there I'm not aware of? :o) I'm also a bit confused by your reference to the "classic Italian gather chemise," since the ones we've been talking about recently don't have that high neckline/collar going on. I've always wanted to do this gown myself, although I've always thought of the fabric as red, not orange. I'd figured the two-shift arrangement probably comprised a basic-square necked shift with narrow (tube) sleeves, and a decorative partlet or shift, with the embroidery, fancier sleeves and high-necked collar. Always figured the puffs on the shoulder rolls had to be faked, especially since they're plain white and have no sign of embroidery. --sue, who thinks she'll actually do the gown in blues, with the embroidered flowers as columbines..... Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > A lady in my Barony who was recently Laureled for her research into Venetian > costume (which has front lacing with something that looks like a gathered > chemise showing through the gap) suggests that there may be two chemises > worn. One is essentially a tube shape (possibly with gores below the waist > for movement) with thin shoulder straps and no sleeves. The seccond chemise > is the classic Italian gathered chemise you see in all those paintings > recently discussed over whether they were drawstring or not and is worn over > the corset. She has an article on her Venetian underwear here > http://members.optusnet.com.au/oonaghsown/gruesome_truth.htm This is of > course just one opinion on how it was done, we certainly have evidence for > faked puffs of chemise in other places so there's no reason to believe this > could not also have been the case here. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 09:26:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RDQjRM021040 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:26:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RDQBNX012232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 07:26:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RDP0f3075778; Thu, 27 May 2004 07:25:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4RDOwf3075709 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 07:24:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCvBN8Gi1qCZs/ZwmdPVefFu/KBK2LSQooQ== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JWMY76P8; Thu, 27 May 2004 06:24:50 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:13:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Troy Message-ID: <20040527.081311.-152299849.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-9 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm very amused by the knowledge that there are a bunch of us closet Mycenean aficionados on the list. I, too, love Bronze Age Greece. One of my favorite wastes of my parents' hard earned money in college was the course I took on 'Greek Sanctuaries' which examined the development of Greek religious architecture from the first identifiable temple building in the Neolithic all the way thru the Acropolis. A minor in Cultural Anthropology made the prefect excuse to study any number of really useless topics! Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 09:33:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RDX9RM021053 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:33:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RDWbNX012734 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 07:32:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RDWZf3079649; Thu, 27 May 2004 07:32:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web14003.mail.yahoo.com (web14003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4RDWRf3079538 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 07:32:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyforbeys@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040527133227.5114.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.2.27.21] by web14003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:32:27 BST Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:32:27 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Catalina=20Saravia=20Quicedo?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] administrative help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How do I get changed to digest mode? I'm going to be away from my computer for a week. Catalina ===== Catalina Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 09:50:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RDoDRM021167 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:50:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RDnUNX013959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 07:49:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RDnSf3089145; Thu, 27 May 2004 07:49:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RDnQf3089056 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 07:49:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.54.2a9e0c74 (3890) for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:49:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <54.2a9e0c74.2de74bdd@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:49:17 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yet another bodice question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/27/04 8:15:39 AM Central Daylight Time, mooncat@in-tch.com writes: Is there a sleeveless shift out there I'm not aware of? :o) I gotta say that after viewing the page at http://members.optusnet.com.au/oonaghsown/gruesome_truth.htm I'm a little on the questioning side regarding some of the conclusions she came to as well. For example, the plate that she uses as evidence for her spaghetti strap chemise is, in my opinion, neither of a sleeveless chemise, nor is it from the period that she is attempting to recreate. It looks to me to be 14th or early 15th century at the very latest, judging by the clothes of both the people in the drawing. And what the lady is wearing looks to me to be a chemise or underdress with long, fitted sleeves (note the cuffs at her wrists), with a very standard surcoat over it. The next picture on the page, which is supposed to support the idea of an underskirt, I would also interpret differently. The lady on the right appears to me to be wearing a chemise with a corset over it, and no dress at all; and the tealy-turquoise drape seen peeking from under her doesn't necessarily look like it's attached to her at all. It could be simply draping that was added by the artist for color; I don't see anything that would indicate to me that it is conclusively (or, frankly, even possibly) an underskirt worn by the subject. I'm not saying that underskirts were not worn, but I think this particular painting is not a good example of it. Her costumes are lovely, and she's done an excellent job of reproducing the look and styles in the portraits. However, I definitely think that it is not indicative that anyone wore sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 10:22:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4REM8RM021372 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:22:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4REJkNX016504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 08:19:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4REJgf3008078; Thu, 27 May 2004 08:19:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4REJbf4008052 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 08:19:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eliz@net.indra.com) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id i4REJbxZ008050 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 27 May 2004 08:19:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eliz) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:19:37 -0600 From: Elizabeth Lear To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] administrative help Message-ID: <20040527141937.GA4093@net.indra.com> References: <20040527133227.5114.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040527133227.5114.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you go to the web site listed at the bottom of each list message: http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume you can access all admin functions. Go to the very last box on the bottom, where it says "To change your subscription (set options like digest and delivery modes, get a reminder of your password, or unsubscribe), enter your subscription email address:" Enter your email address, and hit 'edit options'. You will then see a new page which shows you your personal configurations, and allows you to unsubscribe, change to or from digest, set yourself 'no mail', and other options. You must enter your password for these to take effect, so there's a box at the top to have the password mailed to you if you need it. ...eliz -- "It seemed so clear to me - once I'd wised up to the idea that life is not a straight road with no exit ramps - that life presented opportunities all along the way for a person to change directions." - Alice Steinbach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 10:30:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4REUVRM021401 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:30:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RD6uNX010722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 07:06:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RD6rf3065584; Thu, 27 May 2004 07:06:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RD6of3065512 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 07:06:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1da.22a46f4b (3890) for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:06:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1da.22a46f4b.2de741de@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:06:38 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/27/04 1:24:26 AM Central Daylight Time, jtknits@cts.com writes: Our most recent faire, in addition to chain mail bikinis, had a couple of gals wearing one whole rabbit skin. Rabbit fur as a costume has always baffled me. Seems as though the shedding would make it quite miserable and itchy. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 10:31:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4REVeRM021409 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:31:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4REUhNX017476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 08:30:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4REUdf3015406; Thu, 27 May 2004 08:30:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4REUbf3015275 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 08:30:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-135-62.client.comcast.net [24.21.135.62]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i4REUQ925525 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:30:26 -0400 Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 07:33:59 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Troy Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20040527092505.9898.qmail@web20726.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, Working on a paper for school, I came across this article: Alden, Maureen. "Ancient Greek Dress." Costume ( 2003): 37: 1-16 It has an extensive list of garment definitions from ancient writings. Althea On Thursday, May 27, 2004, at 02:25 AM, Freyalynn Close-Hainsworth wrote: > > The various stories and poems that were organised/collated by a poet > or poets called Homer at some point around the 6thC BC were part of a > remarkably well preserved collection of oral tales from the Bronze > Age. > > One particular thing that leaps to mind (I, too, did Bronze Age Greece > as part of my archaelogy degree) was they Homer makes specific > reference to "boars' tusks helmets". Nothing resembling a helmet > shaped or made of boars' tusks has been found connected to Classical > Greece, but there has been found, in a Bronze Age site on mainland > Greece, the remains of a helmet made of split boars' tusks. And of > course, Pylos, the palace of King Nestor, no longer existed as a > building or a kingdom by the Classical era. > > The Bronze Age costumes probably resembled Minoan more than anything, > and bare breasts all through the film would have bumped the > certificate right up. > > But Homer and his audience probably regarded the Trojan War as > historical legend or legendary history, bearing in mind that the > Achaeans of the Bronze Age had been a different race of people, and > had been invaded and superceded by the Dorians who became the > Classical Greeks. > > Myth is not history,much as we'd like it to be. When you think how > the plays of Shakespear have costumed Caesar, Troilus, Theseus et al, > we can only sit back and regard any film costumers' take with > detachment, pausing only to be grateful at the odd nod towards > 'authenticity'. > > Freyalyn > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Public Relations Manager Sauron/Voldemort 2004 Bush/Cheney - Bringing Bigotry back to the Constitution. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 10:51:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4REpLRM021485 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:51:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4REodNX019270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 08:50:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4REobf3029339; Thu, 27 May 2004 08:50:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4REoVf3029197 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 08:50:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0140.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.80.141]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7115BEA60 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:50:23 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40B60030.5060705@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:50:24 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yet another bodice question References: <54.2a9e0c74.2de74bdd@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't think they did wear a seperate corset at all. If you look at paintings of that time with front closure you can see that the edges are very thick like the bodice is made of more stiffened layers. That wil work as a corset. So there is no need of a sleevles chemise. Greetings, Deredere Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 5/27/04 8:15:39 AM Central Daylight Time, >mooncat@in-tch.com writes: >Is there a sleeveless shift out there I'm not aware of? :o) > > >I gotta say that after viewing the page at >http://members.optusnet.com.au/oonaghsown/gruesome_truth.htm > >I'm a little on the questioning side regarding some of the conclusions she >came to as well. > >For example, the plate that she uses as evidence for her spaghetti strap >chemise is, in my opinion, neither of a sleeveless chemise, nor is it from the >period that she is attempting to recreate. It looks to me to be 14th or early >15th century at the very latest, judging by the clothes of both the people in >the drawing. And what the lady is wearing looks to me to be a chemise or >underdress with long, fitted sleeves (note the cuffs at her wrists), with a very >standard surcoat over it. > >The next picture on the page, which is supposed to support the idea of an >underskirt, I would also interpret differently. The lady on the right appears to >me to be wearing a chemise with a corset over it, and no dress at all; and >the tealy-turquoise drape seen peeking from under her doesn't necessarily look >like it's attached to her at all. It could be simply draping that was added by >the artist for color; I don't see anything that would indicate to me that it >is conclusively (or, frankly, even possibly) an underskirt worn by the >subject. I'm not saying that underskirts were not worn, but I think this particular >painting is not a good example of it. > >Her costumes are lovely, and she's done an excellent job of reproducing the >look and styles in the portraits. However, I definitely think that it is not >indicative that anyone wore sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period. > >-Tiffany >Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. >******************************* >Reflections*of*Worth >http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 11:12:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RFCTRM021556 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 11:12:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RFA0NX021284 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 09:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RF9qf3043642; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:09:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RF9nf3043603 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:09:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu (vcs077.vet.cornell.edu [128.253.111.77]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i4RF9mLp002581 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 11:09:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040527110719.01de0b30@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:09:51 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: <40B60030.5060705@kabelfoon.nl> References: <54.2a9e0c74.2de74bdd@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey there Tiffany... I cannot comment of the specific time period that this lady is recreating, but I can point to at least 3 italian and 4 german resources that do show sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period. If you like I'll scrounge them up. Bridgette >> However, I definitely think that it is not indicative that anyone wore >> sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 11:22:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RFMARM021611 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 11:22:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RFJSNX022250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 09:19:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RFJPf3051025; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:19:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lioness.futureautomation.com (c-24-17-82-194.client.comcast.net [24.17.82.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RFJMf4050923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:19:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from colleen.mcdonald@comcast.net) Received: from cognospc (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lioness.futureautomation.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id i4RELjiP025189 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 07:21:46 -0700 Message-ID: <01bb01c443fd$fbe08a00$1b03010a@mackie.com> From: "Colleen McDonald" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:19:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4RFMARM021611 Status: RO Hey there Tiffany... I cannot comment of the specific time period that this lady is recreating, but I can point to at least 3 italian and 4 german resources that do show sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period. If you like I'll scrounge them up. Bridgette>> I'm not Tiffany, but I'd be interested in seeing what you have located. So far, the ones that I know of are the chemise shown in Kohler's book, the Bohemian Bath house Babes, and there is an Italian painting of one that I can't remember the name of, but it is in Padua and dated to 1376. Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 11:29:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RFTLRM021641 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 11:29:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RFSkNX023312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 09:28:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RFSff3058337; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:28:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com ([212.17.54.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RFRjf3057457 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:28:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lstrid@mglarc.com) Received: by oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:26:05 +0100 Message-ID: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E75A635B@oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com> From: Lena Strid To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:26:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Adding my interest to the group. There are also a late 14th cent. wall painting of Isolde in a castle near Bolzano, in northern Italy, and an Austrian mid 15th cent. playing card with a female potter. >From what I've gathered, it seems as if this is a rather regional fashion. All sources I've seen are from central europe. I haven't seen any images from French or English sources. Colleen, you wouldn't have a reference to the Padua painting? Is it online somewhere? /Lena -----Original Message----- From: Colleen McDonald [mailto:colleen.mcdonald@comcast.net] Sent: 27 May 2004 16:19 To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period Hey there Tiffany... I cannot comment of the specific time period that this lady is recreating, but I can point to at least 3 italian and 4 german resources that do show sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period. If you like I'll scrounge them up. Bridgette>> I'm not Tiffany, but I'd be interested in seeing what you have located. So far, the ones that I know of are the chemise shown in Kohler's book, the Bohemian Bath house Babes, and there is an Italian painting of one that I can't remember the name of, but it is in Padua and dated to 1376. Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ================================================= Margaret Gowen & Co. Ltd. Archaeological Consultants & Project Managers 2 Killiney View Tel: 01-2300433 Albert Road Lower Fax: 01-2300865 Glenageary e-mail: archaeology@mglarc.com Co. Dublin website: http://www.mglarc.com ================================================= CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is private and confidential and may contain legally privileged information. If you are not named above as an addressee it may be unlawful for you to read, copy, distribute, disclose or otherwise use the information in this email. If you are not the intended recipient of this email please contact our systems administrator. Thank you. NOTE Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its associated companies unless otherwise specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 11:36:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RFaERM021656 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 11:36:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RFYJNX023910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 09:34:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RFYGf3062627; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:34:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.NET [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RFYDf3062588 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:34:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net ([192.168.167.47]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BTMtZ-0002Zy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 27 May 2004 11:34:13 -0400 Message-ID: <26454764.1085672052756.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:34:12 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>In a message dated 5/25/04 11:27:06 PM Central Daylight Time, >>dawn@reddawn.net writes: >>I predict a lot more blue face paint at Ren-fest this fall. >> >>Not to mention chain mail bikinis, God help us. >> > >Our most recent faire, in addition to chain mail bikinis, had a couple of >gals wearing one whole rabbit skin. Most of it went into the bottom with a >couple of poofs for the top...and she was skinny with a little belly. I do hope that was one skin _each_ and not one for the two of them.... When I see such people at faire, I always hope that they have remembered to put on enough sunscreen. Otherwise they are likely to wind up with sunburns in a lot of very uncomfortable places.... ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 11:36:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RFabRM021659 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 11:36:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RFZwNX024085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 09:35:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RFZvf3063820; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:35:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lioness.futureautomation.com (c-24-17-82-194.client.comcast.net [24.17.82.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RFZof4063687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:35:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from colleen.mcdonald@comcast.net) Received: from cognospc (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lioness.futureautomation.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id i4REcCiP025760 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 07:38:13 -0700 Message-ID: <01f301c44400$48252860$1b03010a@mackie.com> From: "Colleen McDonald" To: "Historical Costume" References: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E75A635B@oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:35:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO << Colleen, you wouldn't have a reference to the Padua painting? Is it online > somewhere? > /Lena>> I'm at work, so I don't have any of the information here and I don't remember where I saw it at. Could have been online or in a book - it was after the exact period I was looking for, so I didn't register much in the way of details. I'm doing good to remember the place and the year. (It's been a rough week and the brain's a bit over-taxed.) Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 12:00:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RG06RM021786 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:00:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RFxSNX026640 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 09:59:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RFxOf3082186; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:59:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RFxHf4082099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:59:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4RGFJrp015548 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:15:36 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040527084030.026c7890@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:58:33 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistband for skirts In-Reply-To: <40B55CE7.166E10BD@floodcity.net> References: <40B3FC86.8080006@in-tch.com> <001101c44280$457ddca0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <40B3FC86.8080006@in-tch.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040526171319.07f249d0@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the vocabulary lesson. Although I have made yoked skirts and skirts with narrow waistbands, I've never made a skirt with a wide waistband that has it's bottom at the waistline. My natural waist is right at the bottom of the rib cage and for me a waistband that ended at the waist would have to climb out and over that rib cage in order to go upwards. This would not be stable and the waistband would just fall back down to the natural waist. I guess my rib cage is too big at the bottom . (I once knew a girl who's rib cage flared out at the bottom. She wore AAAAA shoes with an AAAAAAA heel! I guess my fitting problems aren't so bad after all .) Katie At 11:13 PM 5/26/2004 -0400, you wrote: >LOL, what I had was a waistband that went from the waist clear up to my >bosom. Don't ask me, I was 15 at the time and it was a hand me down. >if I didn't have a long waist, it would have come up to my armpits, I >guess. > Remember a skirt usually comes up to the waist and the waistband > isn't >centered on the waist, it comes down TO the waist to meet the skirt. >if it was below the waist and was fitted it would be a yoke, if a narrow >band that lay on the hip, I suppose it would be a hip band. > > >Katie Pleasance wrote: > > Wouldn't this result in something much like a yoked skirt? It seems to me > > that if one built something similar to a yoked skirt, fit to the waistline > > but with the pleating beginning further down, one wouldn't have extra > > fabric bunching up under the lower part of the bodice, giving a slimmer > > shape. Or am I not seeing this correctly? I'm certainly not suggesting that > > it would be period. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 12:03:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RG3KRM021807 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:03:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RG2gNX026953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 10:02:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RG2ef3084712; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:02:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RG2cf3084580 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:02:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f4e.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.78]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E968F26286E for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 18:02:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000f01c44404$08b25780$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 18:02:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] pannier/hoop petticoat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear list. Almost finished the pannier frame for my courtdress. It needs the last finishing touches. The hoops bones are not steel, but Wissners artificial whaleboning. The cut of the pannier is my own and it is very steady and stabil. It can take considerable weight. So when you make your pannier cut good, it actually only needs light boning like Wissners. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/estrup2.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 12:05:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RG5kRM021836 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:05:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RG58NX027206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 10:05:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RG56f3086588; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:05:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RG51f4086551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:05:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4RGL0rp017152 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:21:21 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040527090234.025e8558@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:04:24 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance In-Reply-To: <26454764.1085672052756.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earth link.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] chain mail bikinis X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maybe we could look upon the sunburn as righteous punishment for inappropriate apparel? Katie, who sometimes has evil thoughts ... > >Our most recent faire, in addition to chain mail bikinis, had a couple of > >gals wearing one whole rabbit skin. Most of it went into the bottom with a > >couple of poofs for the top...and she was skinny with a little belly. > >When I see such people at faire, I always hope that they have remembered >to put on enough sunscreen. Otherwise they are likely to wind up with >sunburns in a lot of very uncomfortable places.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 12:09:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RG9wRM021861 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:09:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RG8iNX027518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 10:08:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RG8ef3089668; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:08:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RG8af3089559 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:08:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.54.2aa0f3fb (2168) for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:08:22 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <54.2aa0f3fb.2de76c75@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 12:08:21 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Troy To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/27/2004 8:24:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, nicolaa@rogers.com writes: > Bronze Age Greek building is in _Time Bandits_. One of my favorite depictions of ancient Greece. Costumewise too [James Acheson was the designer] even though I know it's not accurate. But it is completely convincing IMHO. And there was COLOR! Not a lot of white. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 12:18:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RGIVRM021888 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:18:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RGGTNX028421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 10:16:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RGGPf3096138; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:16:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cornell.edu (cornell.edu [132.236.56.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RGGNf3096096 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:16:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by cornell.edu (8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11720 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:16:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040527115141.00b6e300@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 12:16:21 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040527110719.01de0b30@postoffice8.mail.cornell .edu> References: <40B60030.5060705@kabelfoon.nl> <54.2a9e0c74.2de74bdd@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Digging up what I can from work.... Guisto's "Birth of the Virgin" http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=easyweb.easynet.co.uk/giorgio.vasari/giusto/giusto18.jpg&imgrefurl=http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/giorgio.vasari/giusto/pic18.htm&h=836&w=678&sz=171&tbnid=Y2DQ4lgsxcIJ:&tbnh=141&tbnw=115&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgiusto%2B%2522birth%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG The Carmelite Potter (female) http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=home.bawue.de/~wmwerner/essling/pict/karmel11.jpg&imgrefurl=http://home.bawue.de/~wmwerner/essling/english/karmel05.html&h=200&w=190&sz=24&tbnid=bVLmVG8tRBgJ:&tbnh=98&tbnw=94&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcarmelite%2Bpotter%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG Well didn't find many of the ones I know of by a long shot... but here's two to get started with. -Bridgette _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 12:24:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RGO2RM021917 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:24:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RGNLNX029152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 10:23:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RGNKf3002051; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:23:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-dav18.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.244.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RGNHf3001917 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:23:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:23:10 -0700 Received: from 166.102.108.88 by bay1-dav18.bay1.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:23:10 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.108.88] X-Originating-Email: [wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: wantstobecorsetted1@hotmail.com From: "Bice" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040527090234.025e8558@mail.katiesorchids.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] chain mail bikinis Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 12:23:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 May 2004 16:23:10.0903 (UTC) FILETIME=[E6FCB470:01C44406] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I actually have a "Irish" blessing for these young ladies who ruin my faires with these "outfits" I'll tell you off list because it's fairly naughty. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Pleasance" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:04 PM Subject: [h-cost] chain mail bikinis > Maybe we could look upon the sunburn as righteous punishment for > inappropriate apparel? > > Katie, who sometimes has evil thoughts ... > > > > >Our most recent faire, in addition to chain mail bikinis, had a couple of > > >gals wearing one whole rabbit skin. Most of it went into the bottom with a > > >couple of poofs for the top...and she was skinny with a little belly. > > > >When I see such people at faire, I always hope that they have remembered > >to put on enough sunscreen. Otherwise they are likely to wind up with > >sunburns in a lot of very uncomfortable places.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 12:27:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RGR1RM021935 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:27:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RGQLNX029436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 10:26:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RGQJf3004630; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:26:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RGQHf3004542 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:26:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0140.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.80.141]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 270ABBEC66 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 18:26:12 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40B616A4.2000005@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 18:26:12 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] pannier/hoop petticoat References: <000f01c44404$08b25780$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, That looks very well. The corset too! Here are my little hips :-) . http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Jurksupport/Jurksupport.html I need to get in and out of a car so this would work better for me I think. Today I cut the pieces of fabrick of the robe a la francaise. Tomorrow I wil start putting it together. And make some pictures with my new digital camera I got for my birthday. Greetings, Deredere Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Dear list. >Almost finished the pannier frame for my courtdress. It needs the last >finishing touches. The hoops bones are not steel, but Wissners artificial >whaleboning. The cut of the pannier is my own and it is very steady and >stabil. It can take considerable weight. So when you make your pannier cut >good, it actually only needs light boning like Wissners. >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/estrup2.htm >Bjarne > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 12:51:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RGp9RM022076 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:51:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RGoQNX002212 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 10:50:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RGoLf3023901; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:50:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80501.mail.yahoo.com (web80501.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4RGoIf3023742 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 10:50:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040527165012.27566.qmail@web80501.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.104.228.236] by web80501.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 May 2004 09:50:12 PDT Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:50:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405271522.i4RFLtf4052924@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I cannot comment of the specific time period that this lady is recreating, but I can point to at least 3 italian and 4 german resources that do show sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period. If you like I'll scrounge them up. I'd also be interested in checking them out. Could you please post them to the list? Thanks! Dawn (now off to check the translation of the Textilier Hausrat) Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 13:31:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RHVARM022240 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 13:31:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RHUXNX006073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 11:30:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RHUSf3055589; Thu, 27 May 2004 11:30:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RHURf3055490 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 11:30:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1a9.24a7f806 (4402) for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 13:30:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1a9.24a7f806.2de77fac@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:30:20 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/27/04 10:10:39 AM Central Daylight Time, ms154@cornell.edu writes: but I can point to at least 3 italian and 4 german resources that do show sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period. If you like I'll scrounge them up. Bridgette That's fine, I'm not saying that they didn't exist, I'm saying that this particular plate does not, in my opinion, give evidence of their existence. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 13:39:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RHd7RM022295 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 13:39:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RHcWNX006952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 11:38:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RHcTf3062227; Thu, 27 May 2004 11:38:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RHcQf3062135 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 11:38:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.36.593a4799 (4402) for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 13:38:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <36.593a4799.2de78187@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:38:15 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/27/04 11:16:58 AM Central Daylight Time, ms154@cornell.edu writes: Digging up what I can from work.... Not to be nitpicky, but the first one is from the mid to late 14th century, and the webpage that I was remarking upon was about re-creating an authentic 16th century ensemble. Also, I think that it can be a little iffy to use paintings which are meant to be allegorical, as costuming evidence; in many instances the clothing depicted tends to be more from the artist's imagination than from reality. Also, in both of these examples (which are both Medieval, not Renaissance), the sleeveless items are worn by women who are currently engaged in a specific employment; a midwife and a woman making pottery. I would submit that this does not necessarily represent what a high-ranking woman would have worn under her daily clothing. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 14:16:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RIGKRM022421 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:16:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RIB9NX010533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 12:11:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RIAxf3088087; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:10:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail2.mdx.safepages.com (mail2.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RIAvf3088043 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:10:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1387A1D11D2 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 18:10:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail2.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail2.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 65969-09 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 18:10:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 10EEB1D1204; Thu, 27 May 2004 18:10:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust242.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.242]) by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A7A3D1D1215 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 18:10:46 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <012701c44416$25f29280$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <54.2a9e0c74.2de74bdd@aol.com> <40B60030.5060705@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] bodice question, 16thC corsets Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:12:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not really ready to post about this, as I'm sort of writing an article on it and haven't finished it, but I've come to the (depressing, for me) conclusion that corsets--as a separate foundation garment, rather than as stiffening of an outer garment--weren't known in north/western* Europe anywhere NEAR as early as we generally think. Tudor corset? Ain't no such thing. More like mid-late Elizabethan. 1569 is too early by at least a decade: the practice of using even a busk (which predated the use of a corset) was new in _1579_ in France, according to Henry Estienne. Queen Elizabeth's 1583 'payer of bodyes of blake vellat' wasn't boned; it was 'lyned with canvas, styffenid with buckram'. An earlier (late 1570s) 'peire of bodies' of hers was simply made of 'sweete lether' and was apparently not stiffened in any way, beyond simply being leather. ...And so on. Stiffen the bodice by means of interlining. Don't bone it, and don't wear a separate corset beneath it. *(read: excluding Spain and Italy. They were a few years ahead, but I have yet to pin down exactly how far ahead, as the idea of a _separate_ stiffened foundation garment for the torso is not the same thing as the idea of a garment stiffened at the torso. For example, to which category do I send the vasquine? And how rigid must the stiffening be before you can call it a corset--was Eleanor de Medici's c1560 velvet bodice stiff _enough_? etc.) -E (please don't tempt me to debate now, I have to finish & sell a bunch of stuff in the next ~3 weeks so I can go buy out Jomar when I go through PA on my way to NH for PorcFest! =} So I'm trying to stay off email, but it's not working. I'll save any emails, and post more about this after that if anyone is interested.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 14:19:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RIJYRM022437 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:19:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RIJ0NX011288 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 12:19:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RIIvf3094134; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:18:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RIItf3094050 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:18:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 1077718 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 27 May 2004 11:18:49 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:18:49 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] bodice question, 16thC corsets From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <012701c44416$25f29280$0400a8c0@compaqub> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 5/27/04 11:12 AM, "E House" wrote: > > > -E > (please don't tempt me to debate now, I have to finish & sell a bunch of > stuff in the next ~3 weeks so I can go buy out Jomar when I go through PA on > my way to NH for PorcFest! =} So I'm trying to stay off email, but it's not > working. I'll save any emails, and post more about this after that if anyone > is interested.) > I'd be willing to bet we're interested. And please include your sources. Thanks, LynnD Although as a generously formed woman, I may just stick with my corset. Elizabeth seems not to have much flesh to whip into the correct silhouette. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 14:45:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RIjXRM022572 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:45:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RIhTNX013480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 12:43:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RIhRf3013334; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:43:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RIggf3012671 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:42:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from MaddNancy@aol.com) Received: from MaddNancy@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.12c.42d00818 (4254) for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:42:33 -0400 (EDT) From: MaddNancy@aol.com Message-ID: <12c.42d00818.2de79099@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:42:33 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5110 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period; corsets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I happen to agree with a lot of Mistress Oonagh's conclusions as they go along with the research that I have done and with the way I make and wear my clothes. Finding concrete evidence for clothing in this period is difficult. I had not seen the woodcut with the sleeveless chemise before I saw her website. My interpretation of it was that it was a woman wearing a sleeveless chemise, which would have been very embarrassing to be wearing in public without anything over it, and that her hands were bound with rope. In addition to woodcut and the other depictions already mentioned, there is also the Carpaccio painting The Healing of the Madman c. 1496 (http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/c/carpacci/2/index.html) that shows what appears to be a sleeveless chemise hanging out to dry with other laundry (it's the garment closest to the building. The period I do is late 15th to early 16th century Florentine which does not have the rigid shaping shown in the paintings on the website we're discussing (mid to late 16th century Venetian). When I first started making Italian Renaissance dresses I put boning in them as I am rather well-endowed. A friend then showed me her dresses, which weren't boned, however she wears a simple corselet - no bones or rope, just fabric. The work done by it is sufficient to modify the silhouette to the desired shape without a great deal of strain on the outer dress. She also wears a shift under her corselet so that she doesn't have to wash it after each wearing. Although I line and interline my dresses, by themselves they do not give me the shape that I'm after. My current project is an interpretation of la Donna Veluta by Raphael (the one with the chemise that we had been discussing - http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/r/raphael/5roma/3/index.html) which has the interlining padstitched to the bodice. Even with the added structure of the padstitching I anticipate that I will still need the corselet. She and another friend also introduced me to wearing a petticoat with my clothes. This simple addition also makes a big difference when trying to achieve the right look. The skirts stand out as they do in the paintings. Although I think there are better pictures to show petticoats than the one on the website (look at http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/florentine/flor6.html), to me it definitely shows a woman wearing a dress with a petticoat. Since adopting this way of dressing I have been much more pleased with the resulting silhouette. While I don't think that every woman dressed this way every day, I do believe that this is one way of interpreting this time period in a manner that can be justified by the art left to us. Nancy Stengel Ulmer (Maddalena Salutati in the SCA) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 14:47:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RIlKRM022581 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:47:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RIkiNX013751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 12:46:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RIkhf3015757; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:46:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RIkef3015713 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:46:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f4e.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.78]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6E65547FE7B for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 20:46:37 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002501c4441a$f90a3250$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 20:46:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear list. Today i had an aha experience. And a bad one, because this is something i should have known a long long time ago. I studyed Nancy Bradfields book, all the 18th century dresses where you can se how the skirt is attached to the bodice. Would you belive me if i tell you, that i never noticed that tecknique before. To my defence i must tell you that when i studyed at the art school for 4 years, all my teachers only was teaching modern sewing teckniques. They had no clues what soever about cutting and sewing historical garments. I have always made the pleats and then sandwich them betwen the bodice outer and linning. This is all wrong! The skirt is folded and then sewed to the edge of the bodice, pleats hang free!!!! I am so ashamed because now i have sewing 18th century dresses for many years, and i never noticed this! Boy dont know what to say :-( Someone told me cartridge pleating was out of the question for 18th century, and now i belive it! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 15:25:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RJPLRM022829 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:25:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RJK1NX016902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 13:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RJImf3079594; Thu, 27 May 2004 13:18:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f19.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RJIgf3079492 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 13:18:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:18:33 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 May 2004 19:18:33 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:18:33 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 May 2004 19:18:33.0308 (UTC) FILETIME=[66D449C0:01C4441F] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Briseis: Troy - I have an idea X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" >Yep, she's in there. Not so much as a love interest, though, which is >where >the girlfriend part comes in. The deep bonds of affection involving >Achilles in the Iliad involve Patroclus. I was happy to see they at least >had him in there and that they were obviously close, and that Patroclus did >die wearing Achilles' armour. Although the whole sulking thing is over her. But yes, there is that whole *cough* mentoring relationship with Patroclus... > > I'm pretty sure that he died after the death of Hector, which comes at >the > > end of the Illiad :) Heck he was even shot by Paris :) >But of course, the horse episode is not in the Illiad. I think Achilles is >gone by the time Troy is finally taken. I don't remember which sequel the death of Achilles is in, or for that matter, the Horse. I always find it interesting how much is assumed to have been in the Illiad that was actuallyin the Oddysey, the Aneid, or whatnot. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Learn to simplify your finances and your life in Streamline Your Life from MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0405streamline.armx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 15:40:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RJeURM022915 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:40:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RJdgNX019128 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 13:39:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RJdQf3095791; Thu, 27 May 2004 13:39:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RJdJf4095689 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 13:39:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4RJt1rp013525 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:55:32 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040527123603.02645268@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 12:38:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Briseis: Troy - I have an idea X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The horse dies? How dreadful! Katie, running for cover again ... >I don't remember which sequel the death of Achilles is in, or for that >matter, the Horse. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 15:46:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RJkrRM022935 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:46:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RJjwNX019768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 13:45:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RJjJVV000678; Thu, 27 May 2004 13:45:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RJjGVV000611 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 13:45:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id ECA905CCA4F; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:45:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0383.floodcity.net [198.93.212.129]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98C575CCA93 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B6448C.F20F9AFB@floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:42:04 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] King Arthur References: <26454764.1085672052756.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I see those silly costumes on TV I sure wish that someone would use a little sense. any woman caught wearing such a silly amount of clothing in any period in history would have been kept under lock and key by the first guy who knocked her on the head and could keep ahold of her til he got her home. it isn't only silly from that point of view though. can you imagine someone stupid enough to go backwoods camping in a string bikini? she would be cut to ribbons by the brush and not at all cute and sexy looking. Kitty > >>dawn@reddawn.net writes: > >>I predict a lot more blue face paint at Ren-fest this fall. > >> > >>Not to mention chain mail bikinis, God help us. > >> > > > >Our most recent faire, in addition to chain mail bikinis, had a couple of > >gals wearing one whole rabbit skin. Most of it went into the bottom with a > >couple of poofs for the top...and she was skinny with a little belly. > > I do hope that was one skin _each_ and not one for the two of them.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 15:50:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RJoVRM022955 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:50:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RJmINX020146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 13:48:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RJmFVV003178; Thu, 27 May 2004 13:48:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RJjGVV000612 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 13:45:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 747AC5CCA91; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0383.floodcity.net [198.93.212.129]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B4B45CCA78 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:45:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B644B8.3941ABB1@floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:42:48 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistband for skirts References: <40B3FC86.8080006@in-tch.com> <001101c44280$457ddca0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <40B3FC86.8080006@in-tch.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040526171319.07f249d0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040527084030.026c7890@mail.katiesorchids.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Katie Pleasance wrote: > > Thanks for the vocabulary lesson. ooops, that wasn't my intention. just to include all pertinent info, since it is hard to know who all is reading this and interested but not sure what others are talking about. > > Although I have made yoked skirts and skirts with narrow waistbands, I've > never made a skirt with a wide waistband that has it's bottom at the > waistline. My natural waist is right at the bottom of the rib cage and for > me a waistband that ended at the waist would have to climb out and over > that rib cage in order to go upwards. This would not be stable and the > waistband would just fall back down to the natural waist. I guess my rib > cage is too big at the bottom . (I once knew a girl who's rib cage > flared out at the bottom. She wore AAAAA shoes with an AAAAAAA heel! I > guess my fitting problems aren't so bad after all .) > > Katie re: positioning of waistbands, I am probably basing it on my experience, being as *I* am and always have been hippy. my high hip is an inch or so below my waist. I thought it was something I had read, but maybe I just thought it was right from experience. However, I guess if I were talking about the side of my body, I would have to say my ribcage also comes down to my waist, only in front is there a gap. and now that you mention it... at the side, an elastic waistband does tend to sort of fold there and the middle sits on my waist. I wonder if it would do this with a firm waistband as well... something to pay attention to in future. however, since I am now so fluffy that things that shouldn't touch do touch at the side, perhaps I am not the best test person. hmmm, maybe I should make myself another skirt like that one I had as girl... that wide waistband would certainly hold the fluff in position wouldn't it? almost like waist shaper. and a set of over the shoulder straps would keep it from rolling down. which I believe it had, come to think of it. thanks for the input, Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 16:06:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RK5xRM023060 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:05:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RK49NX021931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 14:04:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RK45VV016357; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:04:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RK41VW016273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:04:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104077.uvm.edu [132.198.104.77]) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RK3w91012456 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:03:58 -0400 Message-ID: <40B649B6.3060901@uvm.edu> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:04:06 -0400 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <40B3FC86.8080006@in-tch.com> <001101c44280$457ddca0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <40B3FC86.8080006@in-tch.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040526171319.07f249d0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040527084030.026c7890@mail.katiesorchids.com> <40B644B8.3941ABB1@floodcity.net> In-Reply-To: <40B644B8.3941ABB1@floodcity.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] First time Regency X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm leaping ahead a few centuries from my normal interests and undertaking a Regency gown. Or, to be more specific, an American gown circa 1812 or slightly earlier, for a "War of 1812" event this fall. I've collected a bunch of links, images, and have the Arnold and Waugh books, but, of course, wanted to ask the members here for advice. So: - I want to start with underthings. Any advice about corset making. Things to do, not to do, "gotcha's" etc.? - layers? shift, corset, petticoat, pantalets? - any recommendations about how "real life" American clothing would differ from the English fashion plates or how up-to-date a fairly well-off and fashionable American woman would dress in 1812? - any "dead give aways' about design (ex.: sleeves in 1812 would look like this, but by 1815 would not; the bodice in pre-1812 gowns would be shaped like such-and-such but not like that, etc.) - special advice for a gown for a woman of, ahem, mature years (49) - should I be looking at day dresses or outdoor wear (many of the events will be outdoors, some inside, one dancing event, but that's during the day as well) - fabric advice? I usually spend months looking at and collecting images before even starting to think about sewing, but this time the timeline is a bit shorter, so any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Oh yes, and I want to go for as authentic as possible. Looking weird is OK--no need to make concessions for 21st century standards of beauty. Thanks!! - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 16:25:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RKPYRM023189 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:25:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RKOlNX023827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 14:24:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RKOcVV038073; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:24:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RKNhVV033815 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:23:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.84.2a940bae (3940) for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:23:32 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <84.2a940bae.2de7a844@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:23:32 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] First time Regency To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5027 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/27/2004 4:05:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, hope.greenberg@uvm.edu writes: any recommendations about how "real life" American clothing would differ from the English fashion plates or how up-to-date a fairly well-off and fashionable American woman would dress in 1812? Americans were pretty up to date, fashion wise. We had a debate on the 1812 civilian list, but my personal theory is that Americans were more influenced by French than English fashion--but, of course, toned down from the extremes of the early century. One great thing about Regency is that the ladies knew about mixing, matching, and accessorizing. So you can make a gown with scoop neck and short sleeves, but make undersleeves (originals would tie on, but I find that very uncomfortable, so I baste mine on) and chemisette (great pattern in J.A.) to change the look to be appropriate for daywear. The Lady of Distinction in "The Mirror of Graces" (reprinted by R.L. Shep as "Regency Etiquette) wrote that a lady was always covered to her wrists and neck for daytime. This may not have been universal, based on genre paintings of the period, but is, I think, a safely appropriate look for a matron. If it will be cool enough to need a wrap, you can add a shawl or spencer. One of the biggest mistakes I see interpreters of this period making is the wrong fabric choice--please, no little flower print unless you are sure it is an accurate repro of period fabrics. In general, you can't go wrong with a cotton, linen, or cotton/linen blend in a solid color like medium blue or one of the various gold tones. White dresses were still very popular, but other colors were worn and would, perhaps, be just as suitable for a woman of that "certain age." I'm not meaning to imply there weren't other colors, too, but these, I think, are safe choices. Pantalets were not in general usage yet, so you want shift, corset, and petticoat. Corsets were in transition. I'm still not convinced we know very well what corsets of this period looked like, but there are a couple of patterns available. Sorry I'm away from home, but I'm sure someone else can weigh in here. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 16:38:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RKcjRM023260 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:38:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RKatNX024996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 14:36:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RKaqVV058224; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:36:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RKZIVW056551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:35:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4RKp0rp030061 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:51:37 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040527131800.0261ae30@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:34:06 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistband for skirts In-Reply-To: <40B644B8.3941ABB1@floodcity.net> References: <40B3FC86.8080006@in-tch.com> <001101c44280$457ddca0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <40B3FC86.8080006@in-tch.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040526171319.07f249d0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040527084030.026c7890@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO M'Lady, there was no sarcasm involved. I'm new / old to sewing ... 30+ years ago I drafted my own patterns from scratch in order to get clothes to fit a too-tall girl with too much up top and not enough bottom. There were no pattern programs in those days. Heck, personal computers had just been invented! But, I did no sewing since then until recently when I retired. So ***much*** is different. The modern machines can do magic. Things like fusible interface make life easier (I use it to reinforce pattern tissue). My new Viking will even do the embroidery for me as soon as I figure out how to use the embroidery features . Words change meanings, too. Because I have so short a gap between my rib-cage and pelvis (high-hip), I cannot wear wide belts without gouging something and my waist-bands always fold along the bend-over line. So I started making wide waistbands with a crease built-in so that they would fold where I wanted them to. Maybe it's because my hips are so narrow. Yeah, I once heard *snake-hips* used as a compliment. I could have smacked the speaker! If I had been a tom-boy, maybe I would not have minded, but I always liked pretty clothes too much and pretty clothes attractively emphasize a woman's bottom padding as well as her top padding. Viva J.Lo! > > Thanks for the vocabulary lesson. > >ooops, that wasn't my intention. just to include all pertinent info, >since it is hard to know who all is reading this and interested but not >sure what others are talking about. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 16:41:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RKfPRM023278 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:41:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RKenNX025433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 14:40:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RKekVV061487; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:40:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RKe2VV060905 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:40:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 8FC175CCA37; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:40:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0383.floodcity.net [198.93.212.129]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C0F5CCA2E for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:40:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B65190.C2FE8216@floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:37:36 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands References: <002501c4441a$f90a3250$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO this is interesting. how does it work? are you saying that raw edges of fabric hang out on the outside? are the pleats on the outside or is the bodice on the outside? or don't they overlap at all? or is the top of the skirt hemmed before pleating?, is the bodice finished on the edge before it has the pleats added onto it? cartridge pleating looks so elegant. when did it fall out of favor? Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Dear list. > Today i had an aha experience. And a bad one, because this is something i > should have known a long long time ago. > I studyed Nancy Bradfields book, all the 18th century dresses where you can > se how the skirt is attached to the bodice. Would you belive me if i tell > you, that i never noticed that tecknique before. > To my defence i must tell you that when i studyed at the art school for 4 > years, all my teachers only was teaching modern sewing teckniques. They had > no clues what soever about cutting and sewing historical garments. > I have always made the pleats and then sandwich them betwen the bodice outer > and linning. > This is all wrong! The skirt is folded and then sewed to the edge of the > bodice, pleats hang free!!!! > I am so ashamed because now i have sewing 18th century dresses for many > years, and i never noticed this! > Boy dont know what to say :-( > Someone told me cartridge pleating was out of the question for 18th century, > and now i belive it! > > Bjarne > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 16:52:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RKqrRM023319 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:52:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RKowNX026424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 14:50:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RKouVV070117; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:50:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RKoYVV069797 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:50:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from LDownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 1078412 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 27 May 2004 13:50:25 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:50:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <40B65190.C2FE8216@floodcity.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I absolutely cannot talk about the 17-18th Centuries, but I've read that the ladies' journals somewhere between 1855-60 started to call cartridge pleating "old-fashioned" and knife-pleats or box pleats were replacing them. This is a time when gored skirts were becoming more popular also. The first time I read that was in a book that quoted contemporary writings, but I don't have my library here at work. Sorry for the incomplete reference. (Maybe Cut of Women's Clothing? Something large and heavy-ish I seem to remember.) Could cartridge pleats gone out of fashion after centuries only to come back again? LynnD On 5/27/04 1:37 PM, "Kitty Felton" wrote: > this is interesting. how does it work? are you saying that raw edges > of fabric hang out on the outside? are the pleats on the outside or is > the bodice on the outside? or don't they overlap at all? or is the > top of the skirt hemmed before pleating?, is the bodice finished on the > edge before it has the pleats added onto it? > > cartridge pleating looks so elegant. when did it fall out of favor? > > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >> >> Dear list. >> Today i had an aha experience. And a bad one, because this is something i >> should have known a long long time ago. >> I studyed Nancy Bradfields book, all the 18th century dresses where you can >> se how the skirt is attached to the bodice. Would you belive me if i tell >> you, that i never noticed that tecknique before. >> To my defence i must tell you that when i studyed at the art school for 4 >> years, all my teachers only was teaching modern sewing teckniques. They had >> no clues what soever about cutting and sewing historical garments. >> I have always made the pleats and then sandwich them betwen the bodice outer >> and linning. >> This is all wrong! The skirt is folded and then sewed to the edge of the >> bodice, pleats hang free!!!! >> I am so ashamed because now i have sewing 18th century dresses for many >> years, and i never noticed this! >> Boy dont know what to say :-( >> Someone told me cartridge pleating was out of the question for 18th century, >> and now i belive it! >> >> Bjarne >> >> Leif og Bjarne Drews >> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> >> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 17:01:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RL1JRM023361 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 17:01:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RL0lNX027527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 15:00:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RL0fVV079009; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:00:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out008.verizon.net (out008pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RL0dVV078975 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:00:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pandoraf@verizon.net) Received: from outgoing.verizon.net ([192.168.1.2]) by out008.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040527210038.NJVP27801.out008.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:00:38 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.12 (webedge20-101-197-20030912) From: To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:00:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out008.verizon.net from [192.168.1.2] at Thu, 27 May 2004 16:00:38 -0500 Message-Id: <20040527210038.NJVP27801.out008.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO basically you finish your bodice as if you were not going to attach a skirt, so that the bottom edge is finished. then you gather and pleat the skirt and sew it on the outside so that the cartridge pleats make the skirt stick out - here are two great tutorials on cartridge pleats: http://costume.dm.net/cartpleat/index.html http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/17thc/cartridge.html > > From: Kitty Felton > Date: 2004/05/27 Thu PM 01:37:36 PDT > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands > > this is interesting. how does it work? is mise le meas, Pandora Fitzpatrick Everett, WA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 17:09:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RL9gRM023393 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 17:09:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RL7dNX028101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 15:07:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RL6ZVV083584; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:06:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RL1QVW079607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:01:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4RL0t2x023090 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 17:00:55 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 27 May 2004 17:00:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B65720.5070401@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 17:01:20 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating diagrammed References: <002501c4441a$f90a3250$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <002501c4441a$f90a3250$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Someone asked what it's like; sorry, I can't find the specific email. Here's a description with drawings; I think the "rolled pleats" are what are also called "organ pipe pleats" by some: http://costume.dm.net/pleats/ Be sure to follow the link to the longer section on cartridge pleats. cv -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent "The mind games, the isolation, the accusations about being unfaithful, the obsessive keeping track, preventing the other person from getting a job... We're in an abusive relationship with the Bush Administration!" -- Sparrow to Stuart, DTWOF _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 17:22:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RLM2RM023468 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 17:22:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RLJiNX029494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 15:19:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RLItVV093830; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:18:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts6.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RLHZVV092721 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:17:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.136.85]) by simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040527211730.EREL28020.simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 17:17:30 -0400 Message-ID: <00ad01c44430$10c0b440$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040527210038.NJVP27801.out008.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 17:15:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all! Speaking of cartridge pleating, what would everyone's opinion on this gown be: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1531/1darmst3.jpg Cartridge pleat or other? I know someone else mentioned it earlier, but I do not know if it was answered: What are organ pleats? Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 17:28:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RLSQRM023491 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 17:28:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RLRqNX000577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 15:27:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RLRnVV002123; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:27:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80513.mail.yahoo.com (web80513.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4RLPGVV099385 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:25:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040527212510.75930.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.104.228.236] by web80513.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:25:10 PDT Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:25:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405272057.i4RKuJVW074576@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: bodice question, 16thC corsets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO E House wrote: I'm not really ready to post about this, as I'm sort of writing an article on it and haven't finished it, but I've come to the (depressing, for me) conclusion that corsets--as a separate foundation garment, rather than as stiffening of an outer garment--weren't known in north/western* Europe anywhere NEAR as early as we generally think. Tudor corset? Ain't no such thing. More like mid-late Elizabethan. 1569 is too early by at least a decade: the practice of using even a busk (which predated the use of a corset) was new in _1579_ in France, according to Henry Estienne. Um, according to Jutta Zander-Seidel (author of the "Textiler Hausrat"), Margarethe Clatz left "1 old white corset (mutter) over a shirt/chemise" as part of her probated inventory in 1550. Margarethe Rieter left no less than 8, both old and new, that were worn either over or under chemises/shirts. Were they boned as are later corsets? Zander-Seidel doesn't say. She does state, however, that it appears from the probate inventories that patrician and noble women in Germany were interested in the proper fit of the popular Spanish-style clothes, and had underpinnings that would give them the required support. This information is from the wonderful English translation that Katherine Barich has been working on of the "Textiler Hausrat." The original information (in German) can be found on pp. 94-95. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 17:31:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RLVCRM023504 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 17:31:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RLRWNX000503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 15:27:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RLRTVV001798; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:27:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RLLnVV096540 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:21:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 489623D68 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:21:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p036.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.38]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E4F5ED4AA for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:21:43 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] bodice question, 16thC corsets Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:22:01 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <012701c44416$25f29280$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO With some of the early - mid 16th cent. Italian dresses that are open in the front I have always thought that there wasn't a corset but a stiffened bodice. As I was understand it about the culture, they were going through a sort of "natural" phase also the area was warm. I just couldn't think of what would stiffen it..and then the duh moment...buckram. This of coarse is conjecture from many portraits. De -----Original Message----- I'm not really ready to post about this, as I'm sort of writing an article on it and haven't finished it, but I've come to the (depressing, for me) conclusion that corsets--as a separate foundation garment, rather than as stiffening of an outer garment--weren't known in north/western* Europe anywhere NEAR as early as we generally think. Tudor corset? Ain't no such thing. More like mid-late Elizabethan. 1569 is too early by at least a decade: the practice of using even a busk (which predated the use of a corset) was new in _1579_ in France, according to Henry Estienne. Queen Elizabeth's 1583 'payer of bodyes of blake vellat' wasn't boned; it was 'lyned with canvas, styffenid with buckram'. An earlier (late 1570s) 'peire of bodies' of hers was simply made of 'sweete lether' and was apparently not stiffened in any way, beyond simply being leather. ...And so on. Stiffen the bodice by means of interlining. Don't bone it, and don't wear a separate corset beneath it. *(read: excluding Spain and Italy. They were a few years ahead, but I have yet to pin down exactly how far ahead, as the idea of a _separate_ stiffened foundation garment for the torso is not the same thing as the idea of a garment stiffened at the torso. For example, to which category do I send the vasquine? And how rigid must the stiffening be before you can call it a corset--was Eleanor de Medici's c1560 velvet bodice stiff _enough_? etc.) -E (please don't tempt me to debate now, I have to finish & sell a bunch of stuff in the next ~3 weeks so I can go buy out Jomar when I go through PA on my way to NH for PorcFest! =} So I'm trying to stay off email, but it's not working. I'll save any emails, and post more about this after that if anyone is interested.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 17:42:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RLg9RM023551 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 17:42:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RLfYNX002110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 15:41:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RLfWVV014070; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:41:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RLaxVV009831 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:37:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFE701C9D5 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:36:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p036.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.38]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id ADF25D4B1 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:36:55 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] King Arthur Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:37:13 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <26454764.1085672052756.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net> X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: .indra.com 1044; bulk Body=1 Fuz1=many Fuz2=83 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- >>In a message dated 5/25/04 11:27:06 PM Central Daylight Time, >>dawn@reddawn.net writes: >>I predict a lot more blue face paint at Ren-fest this fall. >> >>Not to mention chain mail bikinis, God help us. >> > >Our most recent faire, in addition to chain mail bikinis, had a couple of >gals wearing one whole rabbit skin. Most of it went into the bottom with a >couple of poofs for the top...and she was skinny with a little belly. I do hope that was one skin _each_ and not one for the two of them.... When I see such people at faire, I always hope that they have remembered to put on enough sunscreen. Otherwise they are likely to wind up with sunburns in a lot of very uncomfortable places.... --------------------- If they get sunburned there they ain't got lining and if they ain't got lining they will probably have pain from something else if thy aren't wearing the mini links but the standard links that are not riveted. (Talk about a hair pulling incident) De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 19:40:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RNerRM023880 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 19:40:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RNd4NX013721 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 17:39:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RNcmVV005885; Thu, 27 May 2004 17:38:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RNciVW005839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 17:38:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4RNcH2x024259 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 19:38:17 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 27 May 2004 19:38:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B67C03.2040106@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 19:38:43 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands References: <20040527210038.NJVP27801.out008.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> <00ad01c44430$10c0b440$cb6afea9@sherry> In-Reply-To: <00ad01c44430$10c0b440$cb6afea9@sherry> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Shane & Sheridan wrote: > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1531/1darmst3.jpg > > Cartridge pleat or other? Plain gathers, I'd guess, in fairly light fabric, but it's not my era. If it were pleats, there should be more regularity still showing by the time it clears her arm, I think. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 19:43:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4RNhGRM023895 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 19:43:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RNgRNX014007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 17:42:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RNgPVV008251; Thu, 27 May 2004 17:42:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RNgKVV008198 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 17:42:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 47E1A5CC03C; Thu, 27 May 2004 19:42:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0500.floodcity.net [198.93.212.246]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5034F5CCA25 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 19:42:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B67C47.8DF700AD@floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 19:39:51 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistband for skirts References: <40B3FC86.8080006@in-tch.com> <001101c44280$457ddca0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <40B3FC86.8080006@in-tch.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040526171319.07f249d0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040527084030.026c7890@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040527131800.0261ae30@mail.katiesorchids.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh hey sounds like you had the perfect figure for the sixties, remember Twiggy? I however, had the perfect figure for the fourties or fifties, ten or twenty years to late. My mom bought me shorts sets for Chubbys, and they fit snug in the hip and rattled around an extra 3 or 4 inches in the waist. With a short rise as well, it took me 20 years to learn to fit pants to that figure. Now I wear only skirts. well, the DGrandbaby cut his finger exploring a coke can and it won't quit bleeding, trip to the ER I guess. he crawls on the floor so it's bound to get nasty if we don't do anything, I'm afraid. thanks for the note, it sure makes it interesting to read your notes when I know something about you. Kitty Katie Pleasance wrote: Maybe it's > because my hips are so narrow. Yeah, I once heard *snake-hips* used as a > compliment. I could have smacked the speaker! If I had been a tom-boy, > maybe I would not have minded, but I always liked pretty clothes too much > and pretty clothes attractively emphasize a woman's bottom padding as well > as her top padding. Viva J.Lo! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 20:02:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4S02BRM023967 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 20:02:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S005NX015242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 18:00:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S001VV029666; Thu, 27 May 2004 18:00:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4RNxwVV029617 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 17:59:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id A6DAB5CC03F; Thu, 27 May 2004 20:00:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0500.floodcity.net [198.93.212.246]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C14B05CCA4C for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 19:59:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B68028.E9F9CC1@floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 19:56:24 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands References: <20040527210038.NJVP27801.out008.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO to all, Cynthia, Pandora and Lynn, and anyone else who sent pages, this is so great, thanks. this helps me visualize it so well, though I guess I will have to give up this idea if it wasn't even popular during my era of interest. I've seen it on TV and just love how it looks, but one thing at a time and it probably isn't the best choice for a well padded person to aspire to unless they are doing something specific like a ball I guess. that's the reason I am aiming for such a specific look, cause I think it would look best on me. LOL Kitty pandoraf@verizon.net wrote: > > basically you finish your bodice as if you were not going to attach a skirt, so that the bottom edge is finished. > > then you gather and pleat the skirt and sew it on the outside so that the cartridge pleats make the skirt stick out - here are two great tutorials on cartridge pleats: http://costume.dm.net/cartpleat/index.html > http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/17thc/cartridge.html > > > > > From: Kitty Felton > > Date: 2004/05/27 Thu PM 01:37:36 PDT > > To: Historical Costume > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands > > > > this is interesting. how does it work? > > is mise le meas, > Pandora Fitzpatrick > Everett, WA > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 20:09:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4S09fRM023988 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 20:09:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S090NX015956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 18:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S08wVV034334; Thu, 27 May 2004 18:08:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S08tVW034302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 18:08:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4S08S2x024691 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 20:08:28 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 27 May 2004 20:08:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B68316.4060108@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 20:08:54 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands References: <20040527210038.NJVP27801.out008.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> <40B68028.E9F9CC1@floodcity.net> In-Reply-To: <40B68028.E9F9CC1@floodcity.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kitty Felton wrote: > it probably isn't the best choice for a well padded > person to aspire to unless they are doing something specific like a ball > I guess. A well-executed gown in the proper style for whatevery historical period you like, will look good on any size person. Sure, if you're a size 24, you won't look like a slender woman, but you can look queenly or elegant or fashionable no matter what size you are, if you make the right choices. And I always say that although I'm a size 24, my persona is a size 12. :) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 20:46:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4S0kiRM024123 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 20:46:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S0jmNX018734 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 18:45:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S0jiVV056120; Thu, 27 May 2004 18:45:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S0jgVV056001 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 18:45:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.184]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4S0jQxC001410 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 10:45:26 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c4444d$143366a0$b890d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40B499B2.7040206@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistband for skirts Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 22:24:26 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistband for skirts > I'd have to double-check to make sure, but I recall that the majority of > the skirts from complete (extant)gowns (as opposed to an underskirt) in > Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620_ have shaped upper edges. ISTR > one child's dress that does not. > Don't remember any waistbands, though, shaped or not (on the > skirts...men's clothing being a different topic). > --sue I don't see a need for a separate waistband my skirts are all sewn to the bodice as I have yet to see any evidence that waistbands were used (except for petticoats) and this shaping of the skirts to match the bodice is just one of the pieces of evidence that skirts probably were attached directly to the bodice. now I know I've seen a really good summary of the argument against waistbands I've just got to find it. I have a feeling it's at www.sempstress.org I'll have a look and let you know if I'm wrong. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 21:20:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4S1KeRM024253 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 21:20:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S1IXNX020718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 19:18:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S1IUVV068969; Thu, 27 May 2004 19:18:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.connectnet.com (cn7.connectnet.com [207.110.3.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4S1ISVV068927 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 19:18:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@cts.com) Received: (qmail 18036 invoked from network); 28 May 2004 01:18:22 -0000 Received: from cts-san216120004219.cts.com (HELO Julie) (216.120.4.219) by cn7.connectnet.com with SMTP; 28 May 2004 01:18:22 -0000 From: "Julie" To: Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 18:18:38 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <200405271801.i4RI1df5080701@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] King Arthur X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes - one skin each . But you know what the kicker is here?!! Both are in my group! I hope they didn't identify themselves as members of the group... And about sunscreen - one is a red head, the other a blonde. I hope so too. >> >>Our most recent faire, in addition to chain mail bikinis, had a couple of >>gals wearing one whole rabbit skin. Most of it went into the >bottom with a >>couple of poofs for the top...and she was skinny with a little belly. > >I do hope that was one skin _each_ and not one for the two of them.... > >When I see such people at faire, I always hope that they have >remembered to put on enough sunscreen. Otherwise they are likely >to wind up with sunburns in a lot of very uncomfortable places.... > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 22:06:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4S26FRM024408 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 22:06:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S25dNX024106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 20:05:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S25XVV097140; Thu, 27 May 2004 20:05:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S25VVV097065 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 20:05:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m28.in-tch.com [216.166.191.28]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4S1fP402802 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 19:41:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40B69F1B.7000906@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 20:08:27 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yet another bodice question References: <54.2a9e0c74.2de74bdd@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <54.2a9e0c74.2de74bdd@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd like to know more about that first "source" (the woman on the horse). I could see that as either a woman with some sort of darker-colored gown and lighter colored sleeves (which may or may not belong to some sort of undergown), OR as a woman in a sleeveless gown with her hands tied together at the wrists, and there's a distinct air of mummery or mocking or something to the depiction. In the second example, it's just a bit washed out, I think--it's definitely a dress, albeit, a light-colored one. The colored drape certainly could be an underskirt, although I'd first thought of it as a skirt attached to a bodice for an underdress, a la Eleanor. That wouldn't work, though, with some of those Venetian styles in which it really looks like the shift is visible under the partly-open front lacings of the gown. Hmmm.... I think, however, that she's got a great sense of humor, and certainly gets the "look" right! --sue, who's never dared a Venetian, herself! Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/27/04 8:15:39 AM Central Daylight Time, > mooncat@in-tch.com writes: > Is there a sleeveless shift out there I'm not aware of? :o) > > > I gotta say that after viewing the page at > http://members.optusnet.com.au/oonaghsown/gruesome_truth.htm > > I'm a little on the questioning side regarding some of the conclusions she > came to as well. > > For example, the plate that she uses as evidence for her spaghetti strap > chemise is, in my opinion, neither of a sleeveless chemise, nor is it from the > period that she is attempting to recreate. It looks to me to be 14th or early > 15th century at the very latest, judging by the clothes of both the people in > the drawing. And what the lady is wearing looks to me to be a chemise or > underdress with long, fitted sleeves (note the cuffs at her wrists), with a very > standard surcoat over it. > > The next picture on the page, which is supposed to support the idea of an > underskirt, I would also interpret differently. The lady on the right appears to > me to be wearing a chemise with a corset over it, and no dress at all; and > the tealy-turquoise drape seen peeking from under her doesn't necessarily look > like it's attached to her at all. It could be simply draping that was added by > the artist for color; I don't see anything that would indicate to me that it > is conclusively (or, frankly, even possibly) an underskirt worn by the > subject. I'm not saying that underskirts were not worn, but I think this particular > painting is not a good example of it. > > Her costumes are lovely, and she's done an excellent job of reproducing the > look and styles in the portraits. However, I definitely think that it is not > indicative that anyone wore sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 27 22:19:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4S2JQRM024479 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 22:19:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S2IrNX024900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 20:18:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S2IqVV003654; Thu, 27 May 2004 20:18:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S2IoVV003639 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 20:18:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m28.in-tch.com [216.166.191.28]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i4S1sq408006 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 19:54:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <40B6A247.6030807@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 20:21:59 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period References: <54.2a9e0c74.2de74bdd@aol.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20040527110719.01de0b30@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040527110719.01de0b30@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not Tiffany, but I'd love to see them! --sue M Stewart wrote: > > Hey there Tiffany... I cannot comment of the specific time period that > this lady is recreating, but I can point to at least 3 italian and 4 > german resources that do show sleeveless or tank-style chemises > in-period. If you like I'll scrounge them up. > Bridgette > >>> However, I definitely think that it is not indicative that anyone >>> wore sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 01:35:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4S5ZlRM025518 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 01:35:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S5XoNX006499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 May 2004 23:33:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S5XeVV093024; Thu, 27 May 2004 23:33:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S5XcVV093007 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 23:33:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hrjones@socrates.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i4S5Xbhi013286 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 22:33:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.124] (tnt-1-124.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.60]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4S5XZ8u013216 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 22:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01bb01c443fd$fbe08a00$1b03010a@mackie.com> References: <01bb01c443fd$fbe08a00$1b03010a@mackie.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 22:25:36 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: RE: [h-cost] sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 8:19 AM -0700 5/27/04, Colleen McDonald wrote: >Hey there Tiffany... I cannot comment of the specific time period >that this lady is recreating, but I can point to at least 3 italian >and 4 > >german resources that do show sleeveless or tank-style chemises >in-period. If you like I'll scrounge them up. > >Bridgette>> > >I'm not Tiffany, but I'd be interested in seeing what you have >located. So far, the ones that I know of are the chemise shown in >Kohler's book, the Bohemian Bath house Babes, and there is an >Italian painting of one that I can't remember the name of, but it is >in Padua and dated to 1376. In Olga Sronkova's "Gothic Women's Fashion" there's at least one painting of a woman in childbed wearing a "spaghetti-strap chemise" similar in style to the bathhouse babes. (The book also has a good selection of bathhouse babes.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 02:02:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4S62SRM026051 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 02:02:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S61pNX007933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 00:01:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S61pVV004848; Fri, 28 May 2004 00:01:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S61WVV004661 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 00:01:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.89]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4S61F8P012990 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 16:01:19 +1000 Message-ID: <000101c44479$34ed1220$5990d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:08:26 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Downward" To: "h costume" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 6:50 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands > Could cartridge pleats gone out of fashion after centuries only to come back > again? > > LynnD Absolutely, plenty of things will fall out of favour and then be re-invented or rediscovered a long time later. In the case of Cartridge pleating, so far as I've been told it seems to have largely disappeared from fashionable clothing between the 17th and 19th centuries. I recall hearing something about regional peasant costuming somewhere featuring cartridge pleating but I'm not sure, also as cartridge pleating takes up so much fabric I don't know how economical it would be for your average Joe in the fields. ordinary gathering remained so it wasn't hard to re-invent cartridge pleating base on that, but on the whole cartridge pleating disappeared. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 02:03:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4S63MRM026226 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 02:03:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S61bNX007917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 00:01:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S61ZVV004764; Fri, 28 May 2004 00:01:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S61VVV004648 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 00:01:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.89]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4S61F8N012990 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 16:01:16 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c44479$33ae2980$5990d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00df01c4420d$dc785c20$cb6afea9@sherry><000d01c443c5$aa7f3c20$f890d6cb@ewalpole> <40B5EA23.2080409@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yet another bodice question Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:46:09 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:16 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yet another bodice question > What's she basing *that* on? The Bohemian Bath Babes? Or just > expediency? Is there a sleeveless shift out there I'm not aware of? :o) > I'm also a bit confused by your reference to the "classic Italian gather > chemise," since the ones we've been talking about recently don't have > that high neckline/collar going on. Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear, I diverted off into Venetian costuming for a bit as that's what the article I pointed to was about then I got back onto the topic of the English later. When talked about the Italian gathered chemises I was talking about the chemises worn by Mistress Oonagh (whose website I pointed you to) Not the English portrait the original post was about. Because Oonagh does Italian she wears a wide necked gathered camica not the English high necked style we see in the portrait that sparked this discussion. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 04:16:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4S8G0RM019905 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 04:16:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S8FQNX013725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 02:15:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S8DtVV061771; Fri, 28 May 2004 02:14:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S8DXVV061387 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 02:13:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i4S8D7T06532.; Fri, 28 May 2004 09:13:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 28 May 2004 09:13:06 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:12:46 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Briseis: Troy - I have an idea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> marccarlson20@hotmail.com 27/05/2004 20:18:33 >>> wrote: >I don't remember which sequel the death of Achilles is in, or for that >matter, the Horse. >I always find it interesting how much is assumed to have been in the >Illiad that was actuallyin the Oddysey, the Aneid, or whatnot. Can't speak for the Greek books, but the Horse is in the Aeneid Book 2. I studied it for Latin O-level, more years ago than I care to remember. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 04:22:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4S8MRRM019995 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 04:22:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S8LsNX014038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 02:21:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4S8LrVV065451; Fri, 28 May 2004 02:21:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20721.mail.yahoo.com (web20721.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4S8LpVV065413 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 02:21:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freyalynn@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040528082149.85725.qmail@web20721.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [195.92.168.164] by web20721.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 May 2004 01:21:49 PDT Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 01:21:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Freyalynn Close-Hainsworth To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405271522.i4RFLtf5052924@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 'Time Bandits' X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Susan, I too fell off my chair when I saw that bit in Time Bandits. A perfectly acceptable and fun piece of fantasy, and suddenly a tremendously authentic bit of research right bang in the middle. And I loved the way that in that short piece of film you got a strong sense both of the religious and being in the point where matriarchy was giving way to patriarchy. And it wasn't glossed up at all - the clothes weren't 'shiny' and the people weren't 'perfect'. And didn't Sean Connery make a wonderful Agamemnon-figure. I wasn't the slightest bit impressed with the Robin Hood sequences in the same movie. Freyalyn, surprising voluble for this list! h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: On a related note for Bronze Age fans--one of the best depictions I've ever seen of a Bronze Age Greek building is in _Time Bandits_. I remember just about falling out of my chair that someone had actually researched the things and put one in the movie. Susan --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 08:59:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SCx6RM021370 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 08:59:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SCwPNX025454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 06:58:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SCwFVV080726; Fri, 28 May 2004 06:58:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SCwDVV080706 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 06:58:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0HYF00ASYDD0WB@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 May 2004 08:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:58:57 -0400 From: "J.A.Urbik" In-reply-to: <20040528082149.85725.qmail@web20721.mail.yahoo.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <40B73791.1090107@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) References: <20040528082149.85725.qmail@web20721.mail.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fitted Cotehardie Web Pages X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heya all A while ago there were several long discussions on coteharies. Several people also posed some intrested sites with step by step picture dicrections for draping on on a body.... anyone happen to rember the address of those sites? Jordana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 09:06:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SD6fRM021403 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 09:06:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SD63NX025851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 07:06:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SD62VV084329; Fri, 28 May 2004 07:06:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (thunder.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SD5kVV083994 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 07:05:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (dialup-a2-472.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.249.218]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 08CF1427BE for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 23:05:37 +1000 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:08:25 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <78.57e9d751.2de56a30@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Troy re-read X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO accuracy, > Huh....I agreed with you on that....when I said "Of course this is what you are saying". Apols, I did not read it that way, -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 09:08:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SD81RM021412 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 09:08:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SD5qNX025818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 07:05:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SD5pVV084207; Fri, 28 May 2004 07:05:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (thunder.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SD5kVV083998 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 07:05:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (dialup-a2-472.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.249.218]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C68C427F3 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 23:05:38 +1000 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] King Arthur Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:08:27 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Not to mention chain mail bikinis, God help us. Don't you go knocking chain maille bikinis, they have paid my rent more than once (making, not wearing). You know, I remember a few years back there was an announcement for a movie going into production called Arturus Rex which aimed to do a realistic looking version of the story. Around the same time, that thing with Connery went into production and pop went the imputus for Arturus Rex. We can never win, can we? -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 09:09:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SD9bRM021423 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 09:09:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SD8WNX025951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 07:08:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SD8VVV085547; Fri, 28 May 2004 07:08:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SD7sVV085244 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 07:07:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu (vcs077.vet.cornell.edu [128.253.111.77]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i4SD7rnC004955 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 09:07:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040528090154.01c2cfa0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:07:56 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] compilation of sleeveless /tank chemise resources X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi folks... just dropping all of these into one email. As I look over it I say cool... Most of the ones I know of are here... but there is one more from a German Codex that I can't seem to put my fingers on... from Colleen: the chemise shown in Kohler's book, the Bohemian Bath house Babes, and there is an Italian painting of one that I can't remember the name of, but it is in Padua and dated to 1376. from Lena: There are also a late 14th cent. wall painting of Isolde in a castle near Bolzano, in northern Italy, and an Austrian mid 15th cent. playing card with a female potter. from Bridgette: Guisto's "Birth of the Virgin", The Carmelite Potter (female) from Heather: In Olga Sronkova's "Gothic Women's Fashion" there's at least one painting of a woman in childbed wearing a "spaghetti-strap chemise" similar in style to the bathhouse babes. (The book also has a good selection of bathhouse babes.) Dang as a group... we know a good bit... too bad we don't have a central repository to store it all... Bridgette _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 09:14:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SDE4RM021468 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 09:14:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SDDVNX026276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 07:13:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SDDTVV087881; Fri, 28 May 2004 07:13:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (cumulus.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SDDRVV087862 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 07:13:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (dialup-a2-472.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.249.218]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 69C366B722 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 23:13:25 +1000 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Briseis: Troy - I have an idea Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:16:13 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> Achilles I'm pretty sure that he died after the death of Hector, which comes at the end of the Illiad :) Heck he was even shot by Paris :) --- In a nutshell: Patroclus frocks up as Achilles and is killed by Hector, Achilles kills Hector and takes him for a drag, Paris kills Achilles by firing an arrow into his...well, you work it out, -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 09:52:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SDqkRM021740 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 09:52:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SDoqNX028416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 07:50:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SDonVV007184; Fri, 28 May 2004 07:50:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20729.mail.yahoo.com (web20729.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.119]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4SDolVV007151 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 07:50:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040528135047.37127.qmail@web20729.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.60.172.50] by web20729.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 May 2004 06:50:47 PDT Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 06:50:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bodice question, 16thC corsets To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20040527212510.75930.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Dawn Jacobson wrote: > Um, according to Jutta Zander-Seidel (author of the > "Textiler Hausrat"), Margarethe Clatz left "1 old > white corset (mutter) over a shirt/chemise" as part > of her probated inventory in 1550. Margarethe Rieter > left no less than 8, both old and new, that were > worn either over or under chemises/shirts. Were they > boned as are later corsets? Zander-Seidel doesn't > say. She does state, however, that it appears from > the probate inventories that patrician and noble > women in Germany were interested in the proper fit > of the popular Spanish-style clothes, and had > underpinnings that would give them the required > support. > Dawn > But does 'corset', in this context, mean separate stiffened garment? There were garments called 'corsets' in the mid-14th century, too, but it's been a while since anyone believed that they were body shaping garments. What they actually were is up in the air, though I suspect some sort of 'body' garment, as opposed to hosen, just from the name. Obviously, the term has changed significantly from the fourteenth century to the sixteenth, but I don't know when. Ann in CT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 09:53:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SDrDRM021758 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 09:53:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SDqdNX028593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 07:52:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SDqdVV008299; Fri, 28 May 2004 07:52:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20205.mail.yahoo.com (web20205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4SDotVV007230 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 07:50:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040528135055.59149.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 May 2004 06:50:55 PDT Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 06:50:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Kessler Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <00ad01c44430$10c0b440$cb6afea9@sherry> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I love what she's got on her head! What is that? And what is the full picture this is a detail from? It looks like those could be sprigs of rosemary at the top of her head, and I was just reading last night in a "Martha Stewart Weddings" magazine about how rosemary "used to be" a symbol of fidelity, and good for brides to wear. They had a couple of pictures of 1940s-ish weddings, and some vague reference which I'm only vaguely remembering, about how the association went back to medieval times. Anyway, it looks like there's a man beside her, and is he holding her hands or are all those fingers hers? Oh I see, some of the things I thought were fingers seem to be rosary beads. Anyway, has anyone else heard of this "rosemary for brides" idea? -Angela --- Shane & Sheridan wrote: > Hi all! > > Speaking of cartridge pleating, what would > everyone's opinion on this gown > be: > > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1531/1darmst3.jpg > > Cartridge pleat or other? > > I know someone else mentioned it earlier, but I do > not know if it was > answered: > What are organ pleats? > > > Sheridan > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 10:00:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SE0vRM021807 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 10:00:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SE0QNX029035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 08:00:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SE0NVV012412; Fri, 28 May 2004 08:00:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com ([212.17.54.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SE0JVV012283 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 08:00:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lstrid@mglarc.com) Received: by oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Fri, 28 May 2004 14:58:37 +0100 Message-ID: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E75A6366@oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com> From: Lena Strid To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: Spam: [h-cost] Fitted Cotehardie Web Pages Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 14:58:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http:www.cottesimple.com? There may be more. /Lena -----Original Message----- From: J.A.Urbik [mailto:jaurbik@optonline.net] Sent: 28 May 2004 13:59 To: Historical Costume Subject: Spam: [h-cost] Fitted Cotehardie Web Pages Heya all A while ago there were several long discussions on coteharies. Several people also posed some intrested sites with step by step picture dicrections for draping on on a body.... anyone happen to rember the address of those sites? Jordana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ================================================= Margaret Gowen & Co. Ltd. Archaeological Consultants & Project Managers 2 Killiney View Tel: 01-2300433 Albert Road Lower Fax: 01-2300865 Glenageary e-mail: archaeology@mglarc.com Co. Dublin website: http://www.mglarc.com ================================================= CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is private and confidential and may contain legally privileged information. If you are not named above as an addressee it may be unlawful for you to read, copy, distribute, disclose or otherwise use the information in this email. If you are not the intended recipient of this email please contact our systems administrator. Thank you. NOTE Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its associated companies unless otherwise specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 10:02:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SE2aRM021817 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 10:02:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SE28NX029138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 08:02:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SE28VV013402; Fri, 28 May 2004 08:02:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com ([212.17.54.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SE25VV013333 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 08:02:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lstrid@mglarc.com) Received: by oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Fri, 28 May 2004 15:00:27 +0100 Message-ID: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E75A6367@oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com> From: Lena Strid To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] compilation of sleeveless /tank chemise resources Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:00:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO FYI: Bridgette's Carmelite potter and my playing card potter is the same image. /Lena -----Original Message----- From: M Stewart [mailto:ms154@cornell.edu] Sent: 28 May 2004 14:08 To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] compilation of sleeveless /tank chemise resources Hi folks... just dropping all of these into one email. As I look over it I say cool... Most of the ones I know of are here... but there is one more from a German Codex that I can't seem to put my fingers on... from Colleen: the chemise shown in Kohler's book, the Bohemian Bath house Babes, and there is an Italian painting of one that I can't remember the name of, but it is in Padua and dated to 1376. from Lena: There are also a late 14th cent. wall painting of Isolde in a castle near Bolzano, in northern Italy, and an Austrian mid 15th cent. playing card with a female potter. from Bridgette: Guisto's "Birth of the Virgin", The Carmelite Potter (female) from Heather: In Olga Sronkova's "Gothic Women's Fashion" there's at least one painting of a woman in childbed wearing a "spaghetti-strap chemise" similar in style to the bathhouse babes. (The book also has a good selection of bathhouse babes.) Dang as a group... we know a good bit... too bad we don't have a central repository to store it all... Bridgette _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ================================================= Margaret Gowen & Co. Ltd. Archaeological Consultants & Project Managers 2 Killiney View Tel: 01-2300433 Albert Road Lower Fax: 01-2300865 Glenageary e-mail: archaeology@mglarc.com Co. Dublin website: http://www.mglarc.com ================================================= CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is private and confidential and may contain legally privileged information. If you are not named above as an addressee it may be unlawful for you to read, copy, distribute, disclose or otherwise use the information in this email. If you are not the intended recipient of this email please contact our systems administrator. Thank you. NOTE Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its associated companies unless otherwise specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 10:24:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SEODRM021888 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 10:24:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SENeNX000837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 08:23:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SENbVV026461; Fri, 28 May 2004 08:23:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20724.mail.yahoo.com (web20724.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4SENVVV026407 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 08:23:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040528142331.94055.qmail@web20724.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.60.172.50] by web20724.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 May 2004 07:23:30 PDT Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 07:23:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] First time Regency To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <40B649B6.3060901@uvm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Hope Greenberg wrote: > undertaking a Regency gown. Or, to be more specific, > an American gown circa 1812 or slightly earlier, > for a "War of 1812" event this fall. > I've collected a bunch of links, images, and have > the Arnold and Waugh books, but, of course, wanted > to ask the members here for advice. > > So: > - I want to start with underthings. Any advice > about corset making. If you choose to start with the Mantua Maker's corsets, please be aware that it has no room for hips. A friend of mine was very happy recently, when she realized that slashing the corsets & inserting godets as her figure demanded can make a well-fitting corsets. And this friend has not much butt, though more than the designer. I am quite hip-heavy myself and tried the Mantua Maker Regency corset--the steels on either side buckled under the pressure the first time I tried to lace it on for fitting. It hadn't even been laced up snugly yet. Curves are not forbidden in the time period http://www.pemberley.com/ has a caricature of women of various body types being corseted at: http://www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/ppbrokil.html (or go to "site map", "Jane Austen Information", "Illustration & clothing") about 15% of the way down the page. So there is evidence for boldly slashing & inserting godets as necessary. > - Hope Ann in CT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 10:44:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SEicRM022005 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 10:44:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SEhqNX002497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 08:43:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SEhlVV040002; Fri, 28 May 2004 08:43:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail4.mdx.safepages.com (mail4.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SEhiVV039947 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 08:43:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00E8B27A48 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 14:43:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail4.mdx.safepages.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail4.mdx.safepages.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07218-05 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 14:43:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id B852227A45; Fri, 28 May 2004 14:43:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust13.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.13]) by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8E00627A41 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 14:43:40 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <017901c444c2$61b36ef0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040528135047.37127.qmail@web20729.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] bodices, 16thC corsets, 14thC-15thC corsets Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:45:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.safepages.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't have access to Textiler Hausrat--I'd be interested in seeing the original German phrase. At the moment, without specific mention of the means of stiffening used, I see no reason to classify this garment as the sort of thing we think of when we say 'corset,' because of the terminology problem. (Not that I don't deeply appreciate her translation efforts--my German is getting better, but very slowly! =}) The earliest use of the word corset to signify the garment we're talking about that I've found is 1611, in a French-English dictionary. 'Corsets and Crinolines' has a passage that mentions it in 1577, but based on the modern spelling, I'm pretty sure it was a later (late 18thC/19thC?) translation of that passage, which was not originally written in English. The actual French term mentioned in the passage is 'corps piqué,' which means 'quilted body'--yet another of the many NON-corset corset-like things used before boning became common, though there's some indication that this variation was worn with a busk. Which brings us back to the question of "How much stiffening is enough to call it a corset?" For the 18thC folk here, this is the equivalent of asking, "Can boneless jumps or a quilted waistcoat be called a pair of stays?" You know, I've been trying to figure out exactly what that earlier usage of corset meant. I don't have much to back it up, but I think perhaps what it meant (when used for a female) was what we call now a self-supporting cote, one that shapes and supports the body through its cut alone (and perhaps a garment that kept the belly in, for a man). It makes sense in the context and the date range, and it also makes sense in the later context of being co-opted for the new garment, which served basically the same purpose, just in a different way. Opinions? And btw, all the historical mentions of unboned but stiffened separate payre of bodice brings up an unpleasant notion: those wench-wear bodices aren't too far out in terms of accuracy, if they're the unboned sort! Scary, huh? (But at least the way they're generally worn almost certainly ain't.) Er, I mean, I'm staying off email! Yeah! That's the ticket... -E ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann Catelli" > But does 'corset', in this context, mean separate > stiffened garment? > > There were garments called 'corsets' in the mid-14th > century, too, but it's been a while since anyone > believed that they were body shaping garments. > What they actually were is up in the air, though I > suspect some sort of 'body' garment, as opposed to > hosen, just from the name. > > Obviously, the term has changed significantly from the > fourteenth century to the sixteenth, but I don't know > when. > > Ann in CT _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 11:57:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SFvgRM022346 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 11:57:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SFtsNX009045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 09:55:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SFtnVV091044; Fri, 28 May 2004 09:55:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts12.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SFsnVV090303 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 09:54:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.70.5.232]) by simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040528155443.NTVO7199.simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 11:54:43 -0400 Message-ID: <002501c444cc$1a1ad600$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040528135055.59149.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:54:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This picture is a detail from the Darmstadt Madonna. Here's the whole thing: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1531/1darmst.jpg The hat/headdress she's wearing is great! I'm still trying to figure out *what* the heck the thing actually is, and how to make one to wear. I thought the 'salad' in the top was fun. :-) I think the 'salad'is just carnations, both the flowers and leaves, but a combination of carnations and rosemary would smell lovely. I have fabric for this dress that I bought a couple of years ago, but I think it may be too heavy to just gather up, I may have to pleat it. Or I could just go and buy something lighter, a linen or a linen blend of some sort. I'd definitely have to wait for a sale for that though... Sheridan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela Kessler" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:50 AM Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands > I love what she's got on her head! What is that? And > what is the full picture this is a detail from? It > looks like those could be sprigs of rosemary at the > top of her head, and I was just reading last night in > a "Martha Stewart Weddings" magazine about how > rosemary "used to be" a symbol of fidelity, and good > for brides to wear. They had a couple of pictures of > 1940s-ish weddings, and some vague reference which I'm > only vaguely remembering, about how the association > went back to medieval times. Anyway, it looks like > there's a man beside her, and is he holding her hands > or are all those fingers hers? Oh I see, some of the > things I thought were fingers seem to be rosary beads. > Anyway, has anyone else heard of this "rosemary for > brides" idea? > > -Angela > > > --- Shane & Sheridan > wrote: > > Hi all! > > > > Speaking of cartridge pleating, what would > > everyone's opinion on this gown > > be: > > > > > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1531/1darmst3.jpg > > > > Cartridge pleat or other? > > > > I know someone else mentioned it earlier, but I do > > not know if it was > > answered: > > What are organ pleats? > > > > > > Sheridan > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 12:00:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SG05RM022359 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 12:00:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SFw8NX009265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 09:58:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SFw8VV092779; Fri, 28 May 2004 09:58:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.connectnet.com (cn7.connectnet.com [207.110.3.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4SFw6VV092716 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 09:58:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@cts.com) Received: (qmail 6456 invoked from network); 28 May 2004 15:58:02 -0000 Received: from cts-san21612000430.cts.com (HELO Julie) (216.120.4.30) by cn7.connectnet.com with SMTP; 28 May 2004 15:58:02 -0000 From: "Julie" To: Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:58:16 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200405281402.i4SE2SVX013618@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] central repository? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all. I'm new to this list. I'm on gobs of Yahoo lists and they have a files and photos section for doing just that. Does Indra not have something similar? You're so right that this group knows a lot and it would be wonderful to have a central repository. I know Marc Carlson's on this list. In our group his site is one that we accept without question for documentation . Do others on the group have sites along those lines? A link list would be invaluable. Thanks Julie, former newbie but coming up fast... >Dang as a group... we know a good bit... too bad we don't have a central >repository to store it all... >Bridgette > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 12:25:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SGPWRM022434 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 12:25:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SGNdNX011896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 10:23:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SGNVVV012946; Fri, 28 May 2004 10:23:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net (audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SGNTVV012917 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 10:23:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.21.62.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.62] helo=HELENPINTO) by audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BTk8n-0004cR-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 May 2004 09:23:29 -0700 Message-ID: <00cd01c444d0$1a77c640$3e159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040528082149.85725.qmail@web20721.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 'Time Bandits' Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:23:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef71180231cea43bf7146cc634ceba745e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Susan wrote: > On a related note for Bronze Age fans--one of the best depictions I've ever > seen of a Bronze Age Greek building is in _Time Bandits_. I remember just > about falling out of my chair that someone had actually researched the > things and put one in the movie. Mine too. It just took my breath away the first time I saw it. I catch it whenever it's on for that part and any of the bits with Ultimate Evil. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 12:34:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SGYuRM022518 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 12:34:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SGYKNX012898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 10:34:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SGYHVV021200; Fri, 28 May 2004 10:34:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.NET [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SGYGVV021172 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 10:34:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0003.dialsprint.net ([63.186.144.3]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BTkJD-0001KV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 May 2004 12:34:15 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:34:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000101c44479$34ed1220$5990d6cb@ewalpole> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on the whole cartridge pleating disappeared. > Elizabeth Except, of course, in academic regalia, the body and sleeves of the robe at the shoulder yoke (attached differently--sandwiched between the yoke and the lining. Bjarne, is this what you meant by the way you used to do cartridge pleats?) I'm looking lovingly at my gown as I type. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 12:39:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SGdoRM022556 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 12:39:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SGaDNX013092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 10:36:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SGaBVV022569; Fri, 28 May 2004 10:36:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SGYgVV021409 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 10:34:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 087784264C for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 11:54:38 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40B76B54.1050209@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:39:48 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands References: <20040528135055.59149.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> <002501c444cc$1a1ad600$cb6afea9@sherry> In-Reply-To: <002501c444cc$1a1ad600$cb6afea9@sherry> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Shane & Sheridan wrote: > This picture is a detail from the Darmstadt Madonna. Here's the whole thing: > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1531/1darmst.jpg > > The hat/headdress she's wearing is great! I'm still trying to figure out > *what* the heck the thing actually is, and how to make one to wear. I > thought the 'salad' in the top was fun. :-) I think the 'salad'is just > carnations, both the flowers and leaves, but a combination of carnations and > rosemary would smell lovely. Here's the sketch that was done prepatory to the painting: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/2drawing/1530/09meyer.jpg It shows Anna Meyer at about age 13, I think. Several years later she was engaged and the painting touched up to reflect her 'adult' status. According to the book I have, her headcovering is a "chaplet, a headdress that girls wore to church from their 15th year." Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 13:01:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SH1uRM022677 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 13:01:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SH0wNX015447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 11:00:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SH0tVV041203; Fri, 28 May 2004 11:00:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net (audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SH0mVV041155 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 11:00:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.21.62.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.62] helo=HELENPINTO) by audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BTkit-0000f9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 May 2004 10:00:47 -0700 Message-ID: <013b01c444d5$48e2c340$3e159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040528135055.59149.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:00:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9efccf95bb879c26487250a83c03b6f1df1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Angela wrote: > I love what she's got on her head! What is that? And > what is the full picture this is a detail from? > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1531/1darmst3.jpg It's the "Darmstadt Madonna" by Hans Holbein the Younger; you can find the whole painting on Web Gallery of Art: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/welcome.html Look up Holbein. She's one of the donors (Ana Meyer, daughter of Jakob, who appears in the lower left). Behind her are his two wives, who you can see when you call up the whole. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 13:26:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SHQpRM022832 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 13:26:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SHOmNX017549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 11:24:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SHOkVV059073; Fri, 28 May 2004 11:24:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net (audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SHOeVV059021 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 11:24:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.21.62.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.62] helo=HELENPINTO) by audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BTl60-0001Tl-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 May 2004 10:24:40 -0700 Message-ID: <019001c444d8$a69565d0$3e159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040528135055.59149.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> <002501c444cc$1a1ad600$cb6afea9@sherry> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:24:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef37b6212145ce2bbc176e34f0ff6cb830350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sheridan wrote: > The hat/headdress she's wearing is great! I'm still trying to figure out > *what* the heck the thing actually is, and how to make one to wear. According to the attached article, Holbein did a sketch of Anna Meyer with her hair down, then a few years later, when he completed the painting, since she was engaged, he put her hair up in bands and aged her a bit. It's plausible. Just take two bands, closed to make a loop. The larger one goes on under the hair like a headband, then loop the braids over it and catch them under a second, smaller one. It's open for the rosemary and carnations, and it's got that crease in the front that a flat cylinder would get when it's fit around a more oval head. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 13:30:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SHUKRM022848 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 13:30:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SHRUNX017842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 11:27:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SHRQVV061178; Fri, 28 May 2004 11:27:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80513.mail.yahoo.com (web80513.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4SHRNVV061068 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 11:27:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040528172717.58589.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.104.228.236] by web80513.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 May 2004 10:27:17 PDT Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:27:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405281402.i4SE2SVW013618@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: bodice question, 16thC corsets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ann wrote: But does 'corset', in this context, mean separate stiffened garment? There were garments called 'corsets' in the mid-14th century, too, but it's been a while since anyone believed that they were body shaping garments. What they actually were is up in the air, though I suspect some sort of 'body' garment, as opposed to hosen, just from the name. Obviously, the term has changed significantly from the fourteenth century to the sixteenth, but I don't know when. Ann in CT Just to make things easier, I've copied the translation Katherine Barich did of this section of the _Textiler_Hausrat_: Unlike the “Brüstlein” and the “Leiblein” (outer bodices) in the inventories, the linen underclothing known as a Mieder (corset) was worn both above and beneath the shirt/chemise (Hemd). In 1550 Margarethe Clatz left “1 old white corset (mutter) over a shirt/chemise”. (196) The Patrician Margarethe Rieter possessed an unusually large number of eight corsets (Miedern) “new and old, over and under the shirt/chemise (Hemet).” (197) At least according to the material the corsets demonstrable in the Nurnberg sources differed from the aforementioned bodices in the probates of the princely and noble. Maria Jacobaa Fugger left behind in 1588 2 corsets (untermieder) made of Macheier (wool, possibly mohair) and Sendal (Zendeldort). (198) 22 year old Pflazgrafin (countess) Sabina von Neuburg, desceased in 1598 wore under her burial clothes and underdress (unterrock) a now preserved light brown corset of moiré silk. (Illustration 81) (199) Whether the extant corset of the Pfalzgrafin in the Bavarian National Museum in Munich, and the pieces mentioned in the Nurnberg inventories are parallel can not be determined based on the available sources. But the notable number of 8 corsets in the clothing index of Margarethe Rieter alone probably reference a fashionable leadership role of the city dwelling upper class, here in regard to the close proper fit of the upper body clothing in the style of Spanish fashion. Footnotes: 194 See page 73. 195 From GNM HG 4063 196 StaN, LI5, fol. 41v-42r. 197 GNM, K-A (see footnote 10). 198 Karen Stolleis: The Clothing of Maria Jacobaa Fugger (156201588). In: Documenta Textilia. Writing for Sigrid Muller- Christensen. Munich 1981, page 357 – 370, especially 363-364. 199 Munich, Bavarian National Museum, Inventory Number T 4111. – Karen Stolleis: The Clothing of the Lauinger Count’s Vault. Forschungsheft 3, edited by the Bavarian National Museum, Munich, 1977, catalog #3. Illustrations: 81 Corset (untermieder) of 22 year old Pfalzgräfin Dorothea Sabina von Neuburg (died 1598). For those unfamiliar with the _TH_, it's an in-depth study of 16th and 17th C. Nurnberg costume, as documented through the probate inventories and wills filed during that period. IIRC, it was published some time in the late 1970s or early 1980s; a friend of mine brought a copy back from Germany after her honeymoon there in the mid-1980s. As useful as the book is (it's considered to be nearly indispensible for Renaissance German costuming), there are no plans to republish it or translate it to English; Katherine Barich has been (with the permission of the author) working on a personal translation for the past 2 years. The translated portions can be found in the "Files" section of the GermanRenCostume list at Yahoo: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GermanRenCostume/ For those researching waffenrocks, there are also jpegs of the pages from Milia Davenport's _History_of_Costume_ and Blanche Payne's _History_of_Costume_ covering construction of the bases in the collection of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC. Payne also included (a la Janet Arnold) a gridded pattern of the bases that can be used for construction purposes. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 14:06:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SI6FRM023203 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 14:06:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SI5DNX021449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 12:05:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SI59VV089402; Fri, 28 May 2004 12:05:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SI3mVV088175 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 12:04:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BTlhn-0001Ua-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 May 2004 19:03:43 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:02:55 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] chain mail bikinis References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040527090234.025e8558@mail.katiesorchids.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040527090234.025e8558@mail.katiesorchids.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-DCC-SdV-Metrics: net.indra.com 1179; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Absolutely! As someone who burns very easily, I love having an excuse to spend all my outdoor time covered from neck to wrist to ankle, and my hair covered to protect it too! I just get very freckled on my hands, and pink on the end of my nose. Jean In message <5.2.0.9.0.20040527090234.025e8558@mail.katiesorchids.com>, Katie Pleasance writes >Maybe we could look upon the sunburn as righteous punishment for >inappropriate apparel? > >Katie, who sometimes has evil thoughts ... > > >> >Our most recent faire, in addition to chain mail bikinis, had a couple of >> >gals wearing one whole rabbit skin. Most of it went into the bottom with a >> >couple of poofs for the top...and she was skinny with a little belly. >> >>When I see such people at faire, I always hope that they have >>remembered to put on enough sunscreen. Otherwise they are likely to >>wind up with sunburns in a lot of very uncomfortable places.... > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 14:06:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SI6jRM023211 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 14:06:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SI6FNX021554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 12:06:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SI6DVV090190; Fri, 28 May 2004 12:06:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SI3mVV088174 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 12:04:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BTlhn-0001UZ-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 May 2004 19:03:43 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:00:27 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands References: <00ad01c44430$10c0b440$cb6afea9@sherry> <20040528135055.59149.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040528135055.59149.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-DCC-SdV-Metrics: net.indra.com 1179; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The full thing is the Darmstadt Madonna - see it here http://gallery.euroweb.hu/index1.html Click on the "i" for who everybody is - the donor and his two wives, this figure is his daughter. I think her hair is just bound with two bands of trim, plus the red stuff and the "rosemary". The white bits that seemed to be standing up are her mother's collar, and I think the bit going backwards from her shoulder and the bit apparently hanging down from her back are also part of her mother's clothing. Jean Angela Kessler wrote >I love what she's got on her head! What is that? And >what is the full picture this is a detail from? It >looks like those could be sprigs of rosemary at the >top of her head, and I was just reading last night in >a "Martha Stewart Weddings" magazine about how >rosemary "used to be" a symbol of fidelity, and good >for brides to wear. They had a couple of pictures of >1940s-ish weddings, and some vague reference which I'm >only vaguely remembering, about how the association >went back to medieval times. Anyway, it looks like >there's a man beside her, and is he holding her hands >or are all those fingers hers? Oh I see, some of the >things I thought were fingers seem to be rosary beads. > Anyway, has anyone else heard of this "rosemary for >brides" idea? > >-Angela > > >--- Shane & Sheridan >wrote: >> Hi all! >> >> Speaking of cartridge pleating, what would >> everyone's opinion on this gown >> be: >> >> >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1531/1darmst3.jpg >> >> Cartridge pleat or other? >> >> I know someone else mentioned it earlier, but I do >> not know if it was >> answered: >> What are organ pleats? >> >> >> Sheridan >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com/ >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 14:51:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SIpqRM023556 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 14:51:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SImmNX025264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 12:48:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SImjVV020808; Fri, 28 May 2004 12:48:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SImcVV020635 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 12:48:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f2b.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.43]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id BE7465EE06F for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 20:48:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003d01c444e4$6962c750$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:48:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I know how to make real cartidge pleats and put them to a waistband. I did this for the baroque dress for Nicole Kipar. The pleats i made in 18th century was knife pleats, but put into the linning. Skirt is pleated first, then folded and then sewed on to the edge of bodice - this is the way i should have done! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "ruthanne baumgartner" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands > on the whole cartridge pleating disappeared. > > Elizabeth > > Except, of course, in academic regalia, the body and sleeves of the robe at > the shoulder yoke (attached differently--sandwiched between the yoke and the > lining. Bjarne, is this what you meant by the way you used to do cartridge > pleats?) I'm looking lovingly at my gown as I type. > > --Ruth Anne Baumgartner > scholar gypsy and amateur costumer > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 15:25:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SJPdRM023733 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 15:25:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SJN2NX028361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 13:23:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SJMrVV045522; Fri, 28 May 2004 13:22:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SJMnVV045453 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 13:22:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA09632 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 14:22:46 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 14:22:46 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] clothing and sunburn X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I guess we have Coco Chanel to credit/blame for being the lender in making suntanning fashionable among those who did not have to labor outside and could afford to be sun-protected from head to toe.(Of course, she smoked too and looked even older than she was was she died) Our grandmothers/greatgrandmothers were correct in persisting that suntanning was aging--they knew something we've ignored until recently. Although I'm a brunette, I burn easily, and refuse to do the tanning salon or artificial tan--my hands look enough older than the rest of me as it is. Rather strange that fashion still advocates a year-around tanned look as healthy as well as wearing as few clothes as possible. And, of course, fashion magazines have to promote tanning and anything that ages the skin on one page and products and proceedures that are supposed to reverse said aging on the next. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 17:26:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SLQQRM024592 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 17:26:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SLOQNX012390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 15:24:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SLOBVV038971; Fri, 28 May 2004 15:24:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav23.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SLO8VV038750 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 15:24:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 28 May 2004 14:24:03 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav23.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:24:03 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002501c4441a$f90a3250$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <40B65190.C2FE8216@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:25:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 May 2004 21:24:03.0528 (UTC) FILETIME=[199A6C80:01C444FA] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > this is interesting. how does it work? Like this http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_cartridgepleating.htm > are you saying that raw edges > of fabric hang out on the outside? are the pleats on the outside or is > the bodice on the outside? The outermost region of the upper edge of the pleat is attached to the lower edge of the bodice. It's so hard to explain with words! I hope the picture is clear enough so you can see. > or don't they overlap at all? They don't overlap, they're butted. > or is the > top of the skirt hemmed before pleating? Yes. >, is the bodice finished on the > edge before it has the pleats added onto it? Yes. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 17:33:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SLXaRM024630 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 17:33:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SLX3NX013851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 15:33:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SLWxVV047322; Fri, 28 May 2004 15:32:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav2.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SLWvVV047227 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 15:32:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 28 May 2004 14:32:52 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav2.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:32:52 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040528135055.59149.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:34:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 May 2004 21:32:52.0155 (UTC) FILETIME=[54B080B0:01C444FB] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Anyway, has anyone else heard of this "rosemary for > brides" idea? Why do you say she's a bride? Do you have the title of the painting (I might have missed a post...). > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1531/1darmst3.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 17:51:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SLpJRM024751 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 17:51:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SLnENX016606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 15:49:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SLnAVV059708; Fri, 28 May 2004 15:49:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20208.mail.yahoo.com (web20208.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4SLn7VV059656 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 15:49:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ivyharpdotcom@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040528214906.13239.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.162.250.83] by web20208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 May 2004 14:49:06 PDT Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 14:49:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Kessler Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No, now that I have seen the full painting, it doesn't look at all like she's a bride. My reasoning was more in the other direction, that if brides wore rosemary, and she was wearing rosemary, she might be a bride (which would have been interesting in that it would be one example of a bride in a white dress). I still don't know whether to give much credence to the idea that brides wore rosemary, though. -Angela --- Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > Anyway, has anyone else heard of this "rosemary > for > > brides" idea? > > Why do you say she's a bride? Do you have the title > of the painting (I might > have missed a post...). > > > > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1531/1darmst3.jpg > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 19:45:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4SNj0RM025213 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 19:45:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SNiQNX029134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 17:44:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SNiLVV030344; Fri, 28 May 2004 17:44:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net (starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4SNiJVV030323 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 17:44:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.57.23.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.57.23] helo=HELENPINTO) by starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BTr1P-0007xl-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 May 2004 16:44:19 -0700 Message-ID: <00d401c4450d$aeae81e0$17399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040528214906.13239.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 19:44:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef6f559f759c164499f4d54542c97fc398350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Angela wrote: > No, now that I have seen the full painting, it doesn't > look at all like she's a bride. The Darmstadt Madonna is a donor painting. On the left below the Madonna is Jakob Meyer and his two sons (deceased). On the right are both of his wives, Magdalena Baer (the first) and Dorothea Kannengiesser (the second) and his surviving daughter, Anna Meyer. The painting was completed after she was engaged, but before her marriage. Her sketch, which was done a couple of years earlier, had her hair down and loose. When the painting was completed, Holbein painted it with it up, more appropriate to her new status. She's not a bride yet. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 20:26:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4T0QvRM025430 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 20:26:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T0MaNX001638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 18:22:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T0M9VV049525; Fri, 28 May 2004 18:22:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T0M7VV049499 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 18:22:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 8C8545CC8C2; Fri, 28 May 2004 20:22:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0363.floodcity.net [198.93.212.109]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6512D5CC67B for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 20:22:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B7D71E.F06341A1@floodcity.net> Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:19:42 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] donor painting? References: <20040528214906.13239.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> <00d401c4450d$aeae81e0$17399b04@HELENPINTO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Helen Pinto wrote: > > The Darmstadt Madonna is a donor painting. what's a donor painting? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 21:16:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4T1GZRM025643 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:16:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T1FgNX004259 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 19:15:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T1FYVV074424; Fri, 28 May 2004 19:15:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net (starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T1FWVV074406 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 19:15:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.57.197.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.57.197] helo=HELENPINTO) by starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BTsRf-00043r-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 May 2004 18:15:32 -0700 Message-ID: <015601c4451a$669b3350$17399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040528214906.13239.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com><00d401c4450d$aeae81e0$17399b04@HELENPINTO> <40B7D71E.F06341A1@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] donor painting? Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 21:15:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef21b6aca7a2f99483243d453b4b3b731f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO These are those religious paintings where the person who commissions the work (often a triptych to be hung behind the altar in a church) has him or herself painted in. The donor could be a single person, a husband and wife, or the whole family. You donate, but everyone knows you did it. Lots of artists did these works, like Memling, Massys, Bosch, Ghirlandaio, van Eyck, Durer, el Greco, Lippi, and van der Weyden. There are famous triptychs and paintings by all of them; some almost specialized in them. (There's money in those commissions.) The donor or donors usually appear off to the sides or at the bottom, or in the case of a triptych, in the side panels; although there's an "Adoration of the Magi" by Grien, where the donor, the Archbishop of Magdeburg, had himself painted into the centre panel, right there with the three Wise Men. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 21:55:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4T1ttRM025838 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:55:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T1s2NX006140 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 19:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T1rxVV091659; Fri, 28 May 2004 19:53:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T1rsVV091619 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 19:53:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA1E528AB5 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 20:53:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p028.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.30]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8D4AAC495 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 20:53:52 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Yet another bodice question Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:54:13 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <40B69F1B.7000906@in-tch.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- --sue, who's never dared a Venetian, herself! This is good as I have heard it is not wise to dare a Venetian, you never know what they'll do. :) De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 22:11:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4T2AxRM025923 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 22:10:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T29CNX006929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 20:09:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T29AVV098519; Fri, 28 May 2004 20:09:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.dandy.net (smtp.dandy.net [66.159.110.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T298VW098488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 20:09:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net ([209.128.249.111]) by smtp.dandy.net for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 May 2004 22:11:59 -0400 Message-ID: <40B7F0BD.1060406@dandy.net> Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:09:01 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House(Tornados and Hurricanes) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. Just a comment on the firearms thingie. I wouldn't say they were "very" inaccurate, but as you note, the birds were abundant. We also have a modern conception of fair play when hunting which comes from modern sporting rules. In 1628, you could load with goose shot and just go down to the local pond and shotgun quite a few birds as they were sitting in the water. No bother to wait until they took flight, why make your job harder? Deer and turkey are a bit different to hunt. Most of the colonists and all of the Naturals wanted better firearms, from both the ignition standpoint and the bore (firelock instead of matchlock, and rifled if you could get them, but that was pretty high quality) The lack of match makes it easier to hunt, because the game doesn't smell the smoke. Effective range for a smoothbore piece (depending on the marksman) is about 60-80yds, certainly a joke if you compare modern firearms. Obligatory Costume content : does anyone know when, where and why we have the image of "The Pilgrims" wearing buckles on their hats and shoes, big buckled belts, 1660s style collars and "blunderbusses" (coach guns), when they are supposed to be from the 1620s? I assume Victorianism, but any real details? Is there one particular artist to blame? Mike T. > since firearms of the day were very inaccurate and >airbourne food sources weren't as abundant in 2003 as they were in 1628 >where one could just aim at the sky when flocks of birds were in flight and >be almost sure to bring down something for dinner. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 22:39:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4T2dARM026088 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 22:39:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T2bXNX008386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 20:37:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T2ZkVV010137; Fri, 28 May 2004 20:35:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (cumulus.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T2ZgVV010060 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 20:35:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (dialup-a2-165.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.248.165]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id EF06E6C283 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 12:35:30 +1000 (EST) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] central repository? Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 12:38:19 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> this group knows a lot and it would be wonderful to have a central repository. ----- It's a great idea but may cause more harm than good. Do you want to go to the supermarket and buy your meat wrapped in plastic on a foam tray or do you want to buy exactly what you want from a knowledgeable butcher? The problem with pre-arranged archives of information is that they too easily become law without question regardless of origin or research. The great thing about a list like this is that comments can be inspected, corrected, updated and reviewed with speed and ease by experts in various fields. The on-going forum nature of this list keeps discussion alive and can throw in jogs-of-memory (all the side notes and lingering memories that came up during the recent Troy posts are a good example). The other value here is the direct contact with people rather than through a pre-set screen sponsored by LavaLife. As I explained to a group of student costumers who had the recent mis-fortune to have me speak to them, costuming can be a solitary pursuit: costumers scramble away at their work and pop their heads up every three months for a quick look around before getting onto the next project. It is nice to know there are others out there hammering their thumbs and catching their fingers under size 18 machine needles, -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 22:39:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4T2dRRM026091 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 22:39:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T2cnNX008437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 20:38:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T2cmVV011360; Fri, 28 May 2004 20:38:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T2biVV010838 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 20:37:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F14828D89 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:37:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p287.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.33]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C278AC495 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:37:42 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 21:38:04 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20040528214906.13239.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Anne Meyer and Rosemary X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- No, now that I have seen the full painting, it doesn't look at all like she's a bride. My reasoning was more in the other direction, that if brides wore rosemary, and she was wearing rosemary, she might be a bride (which would have been interesting in that it would be one example of a bride in a white dress). I still don't know whether to give much credence to the idea that brides wore rosemary, though. -Angela I have noted that when books show the Anne Meyer most will say she is wearing her wedding dress. Though I would think that being that she was in her "Sunday best" she probably got married in that dress. As for the Rosemary, it was a custom in many of the northern regions of Europe and perhaps elsewhere that a sprig of rosemary should be in the bridal bouquet so that after the wedding the sprig would be planted in the front of the house. If the sprig grew and flourished then it was said that the woman was in charge of the household and if it died the man was in charge. So goes the folktale I had read. Also, rosemary is a symbol of remembrance/memory. I am more incline to think it is the latter then the former for her holding the rosemary. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 22:53:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4T2rPRM026124 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 22:53:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T2qoNX009115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 20:52:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T2qlVV017320; Fri, 28 May 2004 20:52:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T2qiVV017264 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 20:52:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 04A135CC0F2; Fri, 28 May 2004 22:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0363.floodcity.net [198.93.212.109]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 429235CC12B for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 22:51:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B7F9D7.70E46DBB@floodcity.net> Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:47:51 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] donor painting? References: <20040528214906.13239.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com><00d401c4450d$aeae81e0$17399b04@HELENPINTO> <40B7D71E.F06341A1@floodcity.net> <015601c4451a$669b3350$17399b04@HELENPINTO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO thanks, that's interesting. I don't remember hearing about this before. Kitty Helen Pinto wrote: > > These are those religious paintings where the person who commissions the > work (often a triptych to be hung behind the altar in a church) has him or > herself painted in. The donor could be a single person, a husband and wife, > or the whole family. You donate, but everyone knows you did it. > Lots of artists did these works, like Memling, Massys, Bosch, Ghirlandaio, > van Eyck, Durer, el Greco, Lippi, and van der Weyden. There are famous > triptychs and paintings by all of them; some almost specialized in them. > (There's money in those commissions.) The donor or donors usually appear > off to the sides or at the bottom, or in the case of a triptych, in the side > panels; although there's an "Adoration of the Magi" by Grien, where the > donor, the Archbishop of Magdeburg, had himself painted into the centre > panel, right there with the three Wise Men. > -Helen/Aidan > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 22:56:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4T2uKRM026141 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 22:56:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T2tfNX009343 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 20:55:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T2tcVV018578; Fri, 28 May 2004 20:55:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T2tZVV018565 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 20:55:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 105245CC11D; Fri, 28 May 2004 22:55:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0363.floodcity.net [198.93.212.109]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD7415CC0D9 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 22:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B7FB18.94FEF3BC@floodcity.net> Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:53:12 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] (Colonial House) birding, 2003 - 1620 References: <40B7F0BD.1060406@dandy.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO don't forget the stories about the turkey. they just walked up and caught them. it didn't take long for a lot of settlers to catch themselves a flock of them and many domesticated them. > > since firearms of the day were very inaccurate and > >airbourne food sources weren't as abundant in 2003 as they were in 1628 > >where one could just aim at the sky when flocks of birds were in flight and > >be almost sure to bring down something for dinner. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 23:06:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4T36BRM026223 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 23:06:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T33ANX009704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 21:03:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T339VV021868; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:03:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.dandy.net (smtp.dandy.net [66.159.110.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T335VW021838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:03:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net ([209.128.249.111]) by smtp.dandy.net for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 May 2004 23:05:58 -0400 Message-ID: <40B7FD65.1060803@dandy.net> Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:03:01 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A different view of Colonial house , NH Man goes Colonial: References: <40B3E958.1090401@ttlc.net> In-Reply-To: <40B3E958.1090401@ttlc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. Dot, thanks for the link. I just listened to the interview of Jack Lecza, the "Cape Merchant" from "Colonial House" . I knew I liked the guy! He has a good background, and sounds like he is about 1 step away from being a reenactor...it also answered my question about why he looked so squared away, his doublet and breeches were tied in. It's a shame that he didn't go to Plimoth for training, they could have taught him an easy way to use the "facilities" without spending all that time unlacing his breeches from his doublet. That is why I use hooks and eyes (but I'm tied in in my 15th Cent. stuff, so I feel for him). Thanks again, Mike T. > New Hampshire Public Radio just ran an interview of one of the > particapants on "Colonial House" . It shows a very different and a > behind the scenes view of the program. It can be heard at New > Hampshire Public Radio _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 23:15:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4T3FCRM026307 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 23:15:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T3BbNX010279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 21:11:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T3BYVV026484; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:11:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net (starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T3BWVV026464 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:11:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.57.163.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.57.163] helo=HELENPINTO) by starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BTuFw-0004xM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 May 2004 20:11:32 -0700 Message-ID: <004301c4452a$a120f090$a3399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040528214906.13239.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com><00d401c4450d$aeae81e0$17399b04@HELENPINTO><40B7D71E.F06341A1@floodcity.net><015601c4451a$669b3350$17399b04@HELENPINTO> <40B7F9D7.70E46DBB@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] donor painting? Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:11:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef3c0514e8a6dfa2b108077041f3ab9772350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know of a couple as early as the 13th c. and it persisted at least through the 17th c. Caravaggio even painted a couple. Originally, it was the nobility, but by the late 15th c., they were being commissioned by the wealthy burgesses in the cities. It was a perfect combination of piety and conspicuous consumption. And the best part was that all your neighbors had to look at your portrait every Sunday during Mass. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 23:21:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4T3LLRM026334 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 23:21:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T3JrNX010849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 21:19:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T3JqVV030472; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:19:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.dandy.net (smtp.dandy.net [66.159.110.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T3JnVW030410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:19:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net ([209.128.249.111]) by smtp.dandy.net for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 28 May 2004 23:22:39 -0400 Message-ID: <40B8014E.1050402@dandy.net> Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:19:42 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Tornadoes and Colonial House References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. From what I saw, I can't speak for the Passamaquoddy, but I'm pretty sure that Ramona and the folks from Plimoth (actually, the adjacent Wampanoag village, part of the site) are wearing fairly accurate renditions. They aren't anything like my local folks (Lenape) who have had so much Plains influence while living in Oklahoma that they don't really know what they once wore (even though there are illustrations, albeit done by Europeans). That is a touchy subject amongst some tribal groups, as they won't go near anything that has the taint of "Europeanism". They are more comfortable with wearing something Native American, although not theirs, than in following anyone elses guidelines, but the folks that work at Plimoth are not in the same mindset. They have used European references to guide them. The one young man is actually wearing a carved stone around his neck, types of which have been found on sites dating to that period. I am no expert in this area, and indeed, neither were the "colonists". If the Wampanoag hadn't introduced themselves as such, I wonder whether the "colonists" wouldn't have mistaken them for Passamaquoddy and made a large mistake? Mike T. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 23:24:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4T3OsRM026350 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 23:24:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T3OLNX011081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 21:24:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T3OLVV032469; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:24:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T3OIVV032450 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:24:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9302528E12 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 22:24:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t2p120.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.216.122]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5E83FC495 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 22:24:17 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:24:38 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Flashy X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am sorting through my fabric and getting rid of some and repacking others with patterns. I came across some yardages of metallic plaid, cotton with colored Mylar shot through. Then suddenly a warped concept came over me. "Lets make Ren faire kilts and use the thin gilded vinyl for a jerkin with the shimmery gold sheer for the shirt". Wahahahahah (maniacal laughter) hahahahahah. :) De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 23:32:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4T3WhRM026383 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 23:32:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T3W2NX011564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 21:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T3W1VV035873; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:32:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T3VxVV035821 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:31:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Rampant_Peacock@comcast.net) Received: from molly (c-67-170-26-145.client.comcast.net[67.170.26.145]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20040529033153014007plqde>; Sat, 29 May 2004 03:31:53 +0000 From: "Molly Boone" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] central repository? Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:31:54 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----snip----- costuming can be a solitary pursuit: costumers scramble away at their work and pop their heads up every three months for a quick look around before getting onto the next project. It is nice to know there are others out there hammering their thumbs and catching their fingers under size 18 machine needles, -C. **** How terribly true and OUCH. I haven't gotten hit by a machine needle, but I've been smacked pretty hard but the little arm that holds the needle a couple of times Molly _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 28 23:41:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4T3fRRM026402 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 23:41:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T3eYNX011965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 21:40:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T3eWVV039747; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:40:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T3eUVV039728 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:40:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EA3628F0C for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 22:40:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t2p120.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.216.122]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DFF1DC5CC for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 22:40:28 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:40:50 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <40B8014E.1050402@dandy.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Colonial House and NAs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- Hi, All. From what I saw, I can't speak for the Passamaquoddy, but I'm pretty sure that Ramona and the folks from Plimoth (actually, the adjacent Wampanoag village, part of the site) are wearing fairly accurate renditions. They aren't anything like my local folks (Lenape) who have had so much Plains influence while living in Oklahoma that they don't really know what they once wore (even though there are illustrations, albeit done by Europeans). That is a touchy subject amongst some tribal groups, as they won't go near anything that has the taint of "Europeanism". They are more comfortable with wearing something Native American, although not theirs, than in following anyone elses guidelines, but the folks that work at Plimoth are not in the same mindset. They have used European references to guide them. The one young man is actually wearing a carved stone around his neck, types of which have been found on sites dating to that period. I am no expert in this area, and indeed, neither were the "colonists". If the Wampanoag hadn't introduced themselves as such, I wonder whether the "colonists" wouldn't have mistaken them for Passamaquoddy and made a large mistake? Mike T. > I would not doubt it. There are many non NAs in the Midwest who think that NAs only exist west of the Mississippi. My heritage is northeastern but in the area that I am in there are many N.Cherokee. A person of N. Cherokee decent chewed me out at a powwow and called me a wannabe because my dress was to his eyes a poor rendition of a Cherokee tear dress. After he finished I calmly replied that he was correct that it was not a Cherokee tear dress and that it was a more modern version from an 1890s KC picture of a Mohawk dress and that I am not Cherokee and therefore did not feel like I should wear the Cherokee tear dress. I guess I need to check up on the Mashpee and see if they were finally recognized. Five years ago only the Aquina was recognized and the Mashpee was still trying. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 29 00:31:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4T4VvRM026633 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 00:31:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T4T1NX014465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 22:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T4ShVV059449; Fri, 28 May 2004 22:28:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f29.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T4SfVV059394 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 22:28:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 28 May 2004 21:28:36 -0700 Received: from 129.244.96.52 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 May 2004 04:28:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.52] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:28:36 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 May 2004 04:28:36.0703 (UTC) FILETIME=[68CC76F0:01C44535] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Colonial House (Tornados and Hurricanes) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: michael tartaglio >Hi, All. Just a comment on the firearms thingie. I wouldn't say they >were "very" inaccurate ... Effective range for a smoothbore piece >(depending on the >marksman) is about 60-80yds, certainly a joke if you compare modern >firearms. I believe that if you CAN'T hit a specific target at 80 yards with a modern firearm with a bit of practice you should put it down and never look back. Just because a sewing machine makes sewing a seam faster and easier doesn't mean that hand sewing is not effective :) >Obligatory Costume content : does anyone know when, where and >why we have the image of "The Pilgrims" wearing buckles on their hats >and shoes, big buckled belts, 1660s style collars and "blunderbusses" >(coach guns), when they are supposed to be from the 1620s? I assume >Victorianism, but any real details? Is there one particular artist to >blame? Mike T. Well, heck, everyone knows that the hat buckles were spares for their shoes :) Offhand, no, but looking at the paintings in my copy of James and Patricia Deetz _The Times of their lives: Love, Life and Death in the Plymouth Colony_; I'd have to say it was probably a gradual development. Just looking at the hat buckles, they aren't in the few paintings shown painted before "The First Thanksgivng", Henry Botkin, ca.1920. So the may have been developed after the satirical painting "The Landing of the Pilgrim Fathers", ca. 1885. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 29 01:12:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4T5CrRM026771 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 01:12:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T5B0NX016220 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 May 2004 23:11:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T5AwVV075979; Fri, 28 May 2004 23:10:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out012.verizon.net (out012pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4T5AtVV075961 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 23:10:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp ([4.33.46.109]) by out012.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040529051054.JLNV2198.out012.verizon.net@brandyscomp> for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 00:10:54 -0500 Message-ID: <016501c4453b$54e9c510$6d2e2104@brandyscomp> From: "Brandy Deming" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flashy Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:10:55 -0700 Organization: Better Times for Small Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out012.verizon.net from [4.33.46.109] at Sat, 29 May 2004 00:10:54 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's sick and wrong.... sound like something I would do >:P ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 8:24 PM Subject: [h-cost] Flashy > I am sorting through my fabric and getting rid of some and repacking others > with patterns. > I came across some yardages of metallic plaid, cotton with colored Mylar > shot through. Then suddenly a warped concept came over me. "Lets make Ren > faire kilts and use the thin gilded vinyl for a jerkin with the shimmery > gold sheer for the shirt". > Wahahahahah (maniacal laughter) hahahahahah. > :) > De > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 29 07:41:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4TBfgRM022127 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 07:41:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TBevNX000733 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 29 May 2004 05:40:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TBedVV023313; Sat, 29 May 2004 05:40:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TBebVV023291 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 05:40:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2193D1B282D for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 07:40:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 19863-04 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 07:40:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C3E11B2840 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 07:40:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <02ae01c44571$ba3ac050$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] central repository? Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 07:40:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > **** > How terribly true and OUCH. I haven't gotten hit by a machine needle, but > I've been smacked pretty hard but the little arm that holds the needle a > couple of times > > Molly Me too! Been smacked right in the middle of my forehead I don't know HOW many times, leaning in close to see what I'm doing better. As for hammering the thumb..well, not my thumb, but I currently have a lovely little bruise on my left index fingernail. Dratted grommets. And a sore spot on the bottom of same finger, where a thorn on my rosebush jabbed me, but that's not costume related. :-) Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 29 07:42:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4TBgiRM022131 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 07:42:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TBgENX000789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 29 May 2004 05:42:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TBgCVV023981; Sat, 29 May 2004 05:42:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TBfqVV023816 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 05:41:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 267DB1B2868 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 07:41:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (userweb.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 19883-06 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 07:41:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 769091B2864 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 07:41:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <02be01c44571$e82004d0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flashy Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 07:41:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:24 PM Subject: [h-cost] Flashy > I am sorting through my fabric and getting rid of some and repacking others > with patterns. > I came across some yardages of metallic plaid, cotton with colored Mylar > shot through. Then suddenly a warped concept came over me. "Lets make Ren > faire kilts and use the thin gilded vinyl for a jerkin with the shimmery > gold sheer for the shirt". > Wahahahahah (maniacal laughter) hahahahahah. That's pure evil, that is. Dianne > :) > De > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 29 10:25:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4TEPjRM022850 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 10:25:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TEOLNX007470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 29 May 2004 08:24:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TEOIVV086932; Sat, 29 May 2004 08:24:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TEOFVV086882 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 08:24:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.ae.59134161 (24895) for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 10:24:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 10:24:05 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] clothing and sunburn To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/28/04 2:24:41 PM Central Daylight Time, brujne@creighton.edu writes: Rather strange that fashion still advocates a year-around tanned look as healthy as well as wearing as few clothes as possible. This is odd, but I have been recently encouraged to see the number of celebrities who are using the mist-on type of tanning, and are open about the fact that this is what they are doing. To me, that's sort of the best of both worlds - you can get a nice "glowing" look when you want one, but stay healthy. I have "Indian skin" (according to my grandmother from whom my Native American heritage comes) so I tend to get quite brown after a very small amount of time in the sun, regardless of what I do! -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 29 10:42:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4TEg4RM023026 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 10:42:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TEfONX008279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 29 May 2004 08:41:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TEfCVV094188; Sat, 29 May 2004 08:41:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TEfAVV094171 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 08:41:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.175] (pm5-175.eos.net [205.133.149.175]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4TEf656007252 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 10:41:06 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 10:39:51 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200405290253.i4T2r0VW017434@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver running MimeDefang and SPAMAssassin X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: clothing and sunburn X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, I think we have the Bohemians to thank for suntanning. They were a movement in the late 1800s, I think -- or maybe it was the early 1900s. Anyway, they lived like gypsies and got sun tans on purpose. Lots of intellectuals liked to hang around and camp with them for weekends, etc. They would come back with suntans, which they could show off to their fashionably pale friends as evidence of their brush with the wild side. The Bohemians wore peasant clothes and scarves and flashy jewelry, let their hair down (the women), had reputedly loose morals, were very artsy, and lived on very little money (which they scorned). Sort of like hippies, who were actually throw-backs to the Bohemians. I read a very good book on them, but I don't remember the title. It was probably "The Bohemians," come to think of it. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 29 14:21:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4TILqRM024130 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 14:21:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TIKwNX019855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 29 May 2004 12:20:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TIKUVV091925; Sat, 29 May 2004 12:20:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TIKSVW091895 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 12:20:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4TIKM98015225 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 11:20:25 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Flashy Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 11:25:43 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <02be01c44571$e82004d0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know that plaid. I have about 10 yards of it that I want to make up for a Victorian-Elizabethan Christmas. Hmmm... A Scottish Maharani in full sari? Byzantine Glitz? Regina > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "otsisto" > To: "Historic Costume" > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:24 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Flashy > > > > I am sorting through my fabric and getting rid of some and repacking > others > > with patterns. > > I came across some yardages of metallic plaid, cotton with colored Mylar > > shot through. Then suddenly a warped concept came over me. > "Lets make Ren > > faire kilts and use the thin gilded vinyl for a jerkin with the shimmery > > gold sheer for the shirt". > > Wahahahahah (maniacal laughter) hahahahahah. > > That's pure evil, that is. > > Dianne > > :) > > De > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 29 14:31:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4TIVhRM024192 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 14:31:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TIUWNX020457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 29 May 2004 12:30:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TIUUVV096868; Sat, 29 May 2004 12:30:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from citrine.spiritone.com (citrine.spiritone.com [216.99.193.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TIUSVW096846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 12:30:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by citrine.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4TIUR96021036 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 11:30:28 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] clothing and sunburn Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 11:35:48 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I remember when the first chemical "tanners" came out. I bought a bottle of it and the first day it looked fine. The second day I looked like I needed to be in the hospital with jaundice combined with leprosy! The "tan" came off on everything, including the sheets And it faded to a terrible yellow brown! Now they have to hope that the chemicals in the stuff doesn't cause some reaction 10 years down the road like steroids or bonamine. Regina > > This is odd, but I have been recently encouraged to see the number of > celebrities who are using the mist-on type of tanning, and are > open about the fact > that this is what they are doing. To me, that's sort of the best > of both worlds > - you can get a nice "glowing" look when you want one, but stay healthy. > > I have "Indian skin" (according to my grandmother from whom my Native > American heritage comes) so I tend to get quite brown after a > very small amount of > time in the sun, regardless of what I do! > > -Tiffany > Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 29 15:57:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4TJvZRM024567 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 15:57:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TJt2NX025109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 29 May 2004 13:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TJsrVV033809; Sat, 29 May 2004 13:54:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TJsaVV033690 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 13:54:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04EDA1D20F for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 14:54:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p145.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.147]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D4CAED3EE for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 14:54:33 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Flashy Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:54:57 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <016501c4453b$54e9c510$6d2e2104@brandyscomp> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO heheheh one of the major pattern companies just came out with a kilt pattern hehehehe Now what would I use for a sporran? hehehe more gilded vinyl! HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA (maniacal laugh) Spray paint the shoes metallic gold HAHAHAHAHA (more maniacal laughter) HAHAHAHA De -----Original Message----- That's sick and wrong.... sound like something I would do >:P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 29 16:38:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4TKcERM024736 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 16:38:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TKbdNX027628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 29 May 2004 14:37:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TKbbVV052102; Sat, 29 May 2004 14:37:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TKbZVV052088 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 14:37:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 391601D0B6 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 15:37:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p145.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.147]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3063FD3FF for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 15:37:34 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] clothing and sunburn Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 15:37:57 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am not nay saying your Grandmother just a note. Some people who seem to have that "wonderful NA skin" have sometimes found that they had Basque in them or Greek or some dark skinned European in their lineage. This is why I keep an open mind with my heritage as I have French in my lineage and therefore could have Basque. (Note: My family was said to have had as a family profession waaaay back, guillotine operators :)) De -----Original Message----- I have "Indian skin" (according to my grandmother from whom my Native American heritage comes) so I tend to get quite brown after a very small amount of time in the sun, regardless of what I do! -Tiffany _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 29 17:21:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4TLL4RM024928 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 17:21:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TLJBNX029832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 29 May 2004 15:19:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TLIxVV081452; Sat, 29 May 2004 15:18:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TLIuVV081394 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 15:18:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1d2.224a770f (4394) for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 17:18:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1d2.224a770f.2dea5836@aol.com> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 17:18:46 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] clothing and sunburn To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/29/04 3:39:25 PM Central Daylight Time, otsisto@socket.net writes: Some people who seem to have that "wonderful NA skin" have sometimes found that they had Basque in them or Greek or some dark skinned European in their lineage. I'm sure this is true, but I actually have an awesome framed chalk portrait of my Mescalero Apache great-great-grandmother, and pretty accurate records of our lineage back to the early to mid 1800's. I come from a long line of people who were into history, fortunately LOL. My mother and I both look very Native American in many ways; the bloodline has been strong in the women in our family. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 29 17:22:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4TLMiRM024938 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 17:22:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TLKxNX029907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 29 May 2004 15:20:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TLKpVV082269; Sat, 29 May 2004 15:20:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TLJ4VV081476 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 15:19:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from perronnelle@earthlink.net) Received: from user-12hc6s3.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.27.131] helo=earthlink.net) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BUBEN-0004Bk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 29 May 2004 14:19:03 -0700 Message-ID: <40B8FE56.1090109@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 16:19:18 -0500 From: Charlene Charette User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Puritans and buckles X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is from the Colonial "myth conceptions" quiz: Contrary to popular belief, early English colonists during the 1620s and 1630s did not usually wear black suits or skirts with white collars and cuffs. Black cloth was expensive and hard to obtain, so colonists wore black clothing only on Sundays or for other special occasions (if they had any at all). Colonists commonly wore colors such as brown, gray, green, beige, red, blue, and purple. Early colonists did not wear buckles on their shoes, hats, or clothes. Illustrators in the nineteenth century, three hundred years later, depicted the colonists with buckles on their hats and shoes because at that time, buckles were considered old-fashioned. Buckles did came in to fashion late in the seventeenth century and early in the eighteenth century ... over 70 years after the first permanent colonies in New England. But thinking that the Pilgrims and their contemporaries wore black and white outfits adorned with buckles is like thinking that most people in 2003 dress the way people did in the early 1930s ... it simply isn't true. --Charlene -- A tranquil woman can go on sewing longer than an angry man can go on fuming. -- George Bernard Shaw _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 29 17:26:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4TLQARM024959 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 17:26:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TLONNX000227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 29 May 2004 15:24:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TLOEVV083966; Sat, 29 May 2004 15:24:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TLLQVV082598 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 15:21:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com) Received: from Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id 6.1e6.218f6a9c (4394) for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 17:21:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffsewsstuff@aol.com Message-ID: <1e6.218f6a9c.2dea58ce@aol.com> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 17:21:18 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] clothing and sunburn To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5028 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/29/04 1:32:03 PM Central Daylight Time, wandap@hevanet.com writes: I remember when the first chemical "tanners" came out. I bought a bottle of it and the first day it looked fine. The second day I looked like I needed to be in the hospital with jaundice combined with leprosy! The "tan" came off on everything, including the sheets And it faded to a terrible yellow brown! Oh, gosh, no not that stuff LOL. They have mist-on tans now at the tanning salon, where they take basically an airbrush and spray the tan on you evenly and professionally. It lasts 2-3 weeks or so, and *generally* doesn't come off on clothing, although I've heard from friends that have done it, both that it doesn't and that it can. But it's a very natural look. -Tiffany Non vestimentum virum ornat, sed vir vestimentum. ******************************* Reflections*of*Worth http://stores.ebay.com/Reflections-of-Worth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 29 18:06:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4TM6rRM025138 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 18:06:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TM6MNX002156 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 29 May 2004 16:06:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TM6KVV002389; Sat, 29 May 2004 16:06:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-4.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-4.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TM6IVV002321 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 16:06:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from Jupiter.plumbnet (d14-69-189-68.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.68.189]) by pop-4.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i4TM6B425866 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 17:06:11 -0500 From: Michelle Plumb To: H-Costume List Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 18:06:21 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405291806.21204.mplumb@wideopenwest.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Has Joanne Fabrics really sunk this low? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well all, I've heard your reports about how Joanne Fabrics only hire part-timers who know little or nothing about sewing, and today confirmed it. I was taking advantage of the 99 cent Simplicity pattern sale, and the checkout girl asked, "Do you sew your own clothes?", in wonderment. I replied yes, and she said, "That's cool". Hubby found it funny, but I thought it was too sad to be funny. Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 29 18:15:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4TMFgRM025159 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 18:15:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TMFBNX002578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 29 May 2004 16:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TMFBVV005886; Sat, 29 May 2004 16:15:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4TMF9VV005872 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 16:15:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 218065CC428; Sat, 29 May 2004 18:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from floodcity.net (dialup-0001.floodcity.net [198.93.211.1]) by mail.floodcity.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE5A55CC406 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 18:14:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40B90A73.73C33427@floodcity.net> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 18:10:59 -0400 From: Kitty Felton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Has Joanne Fabrics really sunk this low? References: <200405291806.21204.mplumb@wideopenwest.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I guess we're lucky around here. When I go into the Joanne's in Johnstown, PA, I can count on every employee in there knowing SOMETHING about what they sell, one may sew clothing, one quilts and one might do crafts but they all know about some part it. Kitty Michelle Plumb wrote: > > Well all, I've heard your reports about how Joanne Fabrics only hire > part-timers who know little or nothing about sewing, and today confirmed it. > > I was taking advantage of the 99 cent Simplicity pattern sale, and the > checkout girl asked, "Do you sew your own clothes?", in wonderment. I > replied yes, and she said, "That's cool". > > Hubby found it funny, but I thought it was too sad to be funny. > Michelle > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 29 21:22:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4U1MVRM025989 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 21:22:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4U1KbNX013116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 29 May 2004 19:20:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4U1KRVV082356; Sat, 29 May 2004 19:20:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4U1KPVV082336 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 19:20:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2004 01:20:25 -0000 Message-ID: <003201c445e4$035eeff0$91e67643@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flashy Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 18:18:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Who do you think you are, TEDDY? bwah ha ha ha..... Seriously I do theatrical costuming, I'm about to do Pippin. You folks who do "authentic" medieval better close your eyes... Let's see, we've got a tye dyed hennin and wimple set, leather strappy armor ala "Arthur" the movie, and some sheer black net for "leggings." Your outfit sounds normal to me... SCARY angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 8:24 PM Subject: [h-cost] Flashy > I am sorting through my fabric and getting rid of some and repacking others > with patterns. > I came across some yardages of metallic plaid, cotton with colored Mylar > shot through. Then suddenly a warped concept came over me. "Lets make Ren > faire kilts and use the thin gilded vinyl for a jerkin with the shimmery > gold sheer for the shirt". > Wahahahahah (maniacal laughter) hahahahahah. > :) > De > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 29 21:56:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4U1uLRM026248 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 21:56:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4U1sVNX015215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 29 May 2004 19:54:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4U1sUVV095952; Sat, 29 May 2004 19:54:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay11-dav18.bay11.hotmail.com [64.4.38.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4U1sSVV095893 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 19:54:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 29 May 2004 18:54:20 -0700 Received: from 4.10.36.229 by bay11-dav18.bay11.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 30 May 2004 01:54:20 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.10.36.229] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <01bb01c443fd$fbe08a00$1b03010a@mackie.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sleeveless or tank-style chemises in-period Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 21:54:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 29 May 2004 21:54:23 -0400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 May 2004 01:54:20.0917 (UTC) FILETIME=[06555A50:01C445E9] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i4U1uLRM026248 Status: RO An illuminator from 15th century Germany known as "Martinus Opifex" did a lovely illustration of a couple about to get into bed where she is wearing a sleeveless chemise. It is about mid-calf, somewhat fitted at the waist. The top has a few gathers or pleats that are finished off by a band and attached straps. Unfortunately Google can't seem to find hardly any pictures by this artist, let alone the one I want. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 29 22:13:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4U2DiRM026318 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 22:13:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4U2BpNX015979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 29 May 2004 20:11:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4U2BoVV002730; Sat, 29 May 2004 20:11:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4U2BkVV002609 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 20:11:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.23]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4U2BT3b008866 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 12:11:33 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c445eb$6fc180c0$1790d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 20:31:12 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "ruthanne baumgartner" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 2:34 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands > on the whole cartridge pleating disappeared. > > Elizabeth > > Except, of course, in academic regalia, the body and sleeves of the robe at > the shoulder yoke (attached differently--sandwiched between the yoke and the > lining. Bjarne, is this what you meant by the way you used to do cartridge > pleats?) I'm looking lovingly at my gown as I type. > > --Ruth Anne Baumgartner > scholar gypsy and amateur costumer I don't understand how they can be cartridge pleats and be sewn between two layers of fabric, if you sew it between layers of fabric then they have to be flattened and therefore are not cartridge pleats but box pleats (or possibly knife pleats if you push the pleat to the side rather than squashing it down in the middle) because it's been squashed flat, cartridge pleats can't be squashed flat or they're not cartridge pleats anymore. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 30 01:35:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4U5ZcRM026892 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 01:35:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4U5XCNX025701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 29 May 2004 23:33:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4U5WsVV082124; Sat, 29 May 2004 23:32:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out001.verizon.net (out001pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4U5WrVV082109 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 23:32:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp ([4.33.46.114]) by out001.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040530053252.LBBA1464.out001.verizon.net@brandyscomp> for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 00:32:52 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c44607$8ebfdaf0$722e2104@brandyscomp> From: "Brandy Deming" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200405291806.21204.mplumb@wideopenwest.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Has Joanne Fabrics really sunk this low? Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 22:32:53 -0700 Organization: Better Times for Small Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out001.verizon.net from [4.33.46.114] at Sun, 30 May 2004 00:32:52 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO what do you expect for minimum wage and no benefits? B ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle Plumb" To: "H-Costume List" Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 3:06 PM Subject: [h-cost] Has Joanne Fabrics really sunk this low? > Well all, I've heard your reports about how Joanne Fabrics only hire > part-timers who know little or nothing about sewing, and today confirmed it. > > I was taking advantage of the 99 cent Simplicity pattern sale, and the > checkout girl asked, "Do you sew your own clothes?", in wonderment. I > replied yes, and she said, "That's cool". > > Hubby found it funny, but I thought it was too sad to be funny. > Michelle > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 30 09:16:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4UDGsRM008690 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 09:16:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UDDoNX014103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 30 May 2004 07:13:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UDDeVV049790; Sun, 30 May 2004 07:13:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UDDcVV049779 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 07:13:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from afmmurphy@earthlink.net) Received: from 0-1pool112-70.nas6.somerville1.ma.us.da.qwest.net ([63.159.112.70] helo=earthlink.net) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BUQ89-0004br-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 30 May 2004 06:13:38 -0700 Message-ID: <40B9DE03.703@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 09:13:39 -0400 From: AF Murphy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Van Helsing References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes. I haven't seen the movie, but the poster caught my eye and I stopped and stared... Those blouses were being worn by women in the villages when I was in Romania 30 years ago. I saw them from the bus, carrying water from wells, walking down the street... Quite lovely. The patterns are always red. I bought one, of course... *G* Still have it. Now, seeing it worn under a leather bodice/corset/thing was a bit startling... *G* Anne catching up on posts Julie wrote: > I have to agree with most of what you say about the costumes from this film. > The one exception I have is the "Elizabethan-era embroidered chemise". This > was a blouse in a style with embroidery patterns typical of the Transylvania > area. In fact there is an exporter there currently who carries blouses just > like it. It was called Carpathia or something similar. I stumbled over > them looking for more authentic garb. > Julie > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 30 11:05:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4UF5ZRM009075 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 11:05:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UF4pNX019329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 30 May 2004 09:04:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UF4jVV093734; Sun, 30 May 2004 09:04:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UF4gVV093689 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 09:04:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from mail.ntw.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i4UF3xD30937 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 09:03:59 -0600 Received: from 129.19.132.153 (SquirrelMail authenticated user sylvia) by mail.ntw.net with HTTP; Sun, 30 May 2004 09:03:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <1156.129.19.132.153.1085929439.squirrel@mail.ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <000701c44607$8ebfdaf0$722e2104@brandyscomp> References: <200405291806.21204.mplumb@wideopenwest.com> <000701c44607$8ebfdaf0$722e2104@brandyscomp> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 09:03:59 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Has Joanne Fabrics really sunk this low? From: sylvia@ntw.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here here! I work part time at Joanns and am probably the most knowledgeable employee there, having sewn for over 40 years. I figure I should be making 4 times what they pay me, but I get the same as the college student with no sewing experience at all. Sylrog> what do you expect for minimum wage and no benefits? > > B > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michelle Plumb" > To: "H-Costume List" > Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 3:06 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Has Joanne Fabrics really sunk this low? > > >> Well all, I've heard your reports about how Joanne Fabrics only hire >> part-timers who know little or nothing about sewing, and today confirmed > it. >> >> I was taking advantage of the 99 cent Simplicity pattern sale, and the >> checkout girl asked, "Do you sew your own clothes?", in wonderment. I >> replied yes, and she said, "That's cool". >> >> Hubby found it funny, but I thought it was too sad to be funny. >> Michelle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 30 12:41:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4UGf2RM010031 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 12:41:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UGeDNX024626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 30 May 2004 10:40:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UGdWVV033733; Sun, 30 May 2004 10:39:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.ettu.net (rrcs-west-65-26-169-212.biz.rr.com [65.26.169.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UGdUVV033673 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 10:39:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.ettu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08C9A4264A for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 11:59:38 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <40BA0F8B.1090502@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 11:44:59 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Has Joanne Fabrics really sunk this low? References: <200405291806.21204.mplumb@wideopenwest.com> <000701c44607$8ebfdaf0$722e2104@brandyscomp> In-Reply-To: <000701c44607$8ebfdaf0$722e2104@brandyscomp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Brandy Deming wrote: > what do you expect for minimum wage and no benefits? > > > >>Well all, I've heard your reports about how Joanne Fabrics only hire >>part-timers who know little or nothing about sewing, and today confirmed > > it. > Having gone through the application process there, I can tell you that the company's primary focus for employees (at least during the screening of applicants) is on customer service. They seem to really prefer people who are happy, friendly, and helpful over people with a lot of sewing knowledge. There was an extensive "psych profile" type test that I went through last year when I applied. My sewing experience didn't seem to factor into the application. I don't remember what the benefits were like, but most retail operations like to work people for 30-35 hours, just short of full-time, so they don't have to provide a full package. I have applied for jobs at high-end couture fabric shops and been treated just as 'badly'. One potential employer told me he had girls offering to work free just to get the experience, so why should he pay me more than minimum wage. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 30 13:10:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4UHAIRM010779 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 13:10:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UH9gNX026294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 30 May 2004 11:09:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UH9dVV045853; Sun, 30 May 2004 11:09:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from netkauai-1.dns-netkauai.com (ns1.dns-netkauai.com [66.206.11.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UH9bVW045817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 11:09:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa@darklord.com) Received: from adsl-68-122-8-15.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net ([68.122.8.15] helo=darklord.com) by netkauai-1.dns-netkauai.com with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BUToS-0003wQ-6U for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 30 May 2004 07:09:32 -1000 Message-ID: <40BA1547.3000004@darklord.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:09:27 -0700 From: Lisa VandenBerghe User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - netkauai-1.dns-netkauai.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - darklord.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: organ pleats X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jennifer Thompson explains organ pleats and has photos on her website Festive_Attyre. Here's a link - scroll down to where it says "skirt - part 2". -Lisa http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/waffenrock/page1.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 30 13:35:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4UHZZRM010946 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 13:35:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UHZ0NX027748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 30 May 2004 11:35:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UHYvVV056477; Sun, 30 May 2004 11:34:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80510.mail.yahoo.com (web80510.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4UHYuVV056430 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 11:34:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040530173449.57319.qmail@web80510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.202.175.150] by web80510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 May 2004 10:34:49 PDT Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:34:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405301506.i4UF5tVW094169@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Elizabeth Walpole wrote: I don't understand how they can be cartridge pleats and be sewn between two layers of fabric, if you sew it between layers of fabric then they have to be flattened and therefore are not cartridge pleats but box pleats (or possibly knife pleats if you push the pleat to the side rather than squashing it down in the middle) because it's been squashed flat, cartridge pleats can't be squashed flat or they're not cartridge pleats anymore. Elizabeth Ooh, ooh, I know the answer to this one (because I just had to mend a student's graduation gown for her--it's a hand-me-down from an older brother). The top of a graduation gown IS "cartridge pleated," AND "sandwiched between two layers." The sleeve cap (a gigantic thing) is cartridge pleated just like the top of a cartridge-pleated skirt. The "fashion fabric" part of the yoke is then stitched to the top of each pleat. The "lining fabric" part of the yoke is stitched to the bottom of each pleat, creating a sandwich with the pleats as the filling. I think the key is that the yoke pieces are not stitched to the very edge of the pleats, but about 1/8" in. _______________________ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ _______________________ Interestingly, it says on the diploma from the State of California that I'm accorded the rights and privileges accorded to the holder of a Bachelor of Arts, and the wearing of the black gown with pleated sleeves (and the mortarboard cap) is one of them. However, the one time when it should be necessary to wear it (a high school commencement), our administration only allows the administration to exercise the "rights and privileges." Guess it would give the lowly teachers thoughts above their station. Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 30 13:39:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4UHdkRM010967 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 13:39:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UHbxNX027951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 30 May 2004 11:37:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UHbwVV057634; Sun, 30 May 2004 11:37:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UHbuVV057615 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 11:37:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0470.dialsprint.net ([63.186.145.216]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BUUFu-00070h-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 30 May 2004 13:37:55 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:38:38 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000001c445eb$6fc180c0$1790d6cb@ewalpole> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Take a look: they're cartridge pleats. One thing that makes the sandwiching possible is that they aren't very deep pleats; another is that the sandwich isn't really flat. I've made far too many box pleats (the first kind I learned, age 11) to mistake one for the other. The cartridge pleats on regalia (and traditional clerical robes at least in the Prot churches) are a distinguishing element. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner on 5/29/04 6:31 AM, Elizabeth Walpole at ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ruthanne baumgartner" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 2:34 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands > > >> on the whole cartridge pleating disappeared. >>> Elizabeth >> >> Except, of course, in academic regalia, the body and sleeves of the robe > at >> the shoulder yoke (attached differently--sandwiched between the yoke and > the >> lining. Bjarne, is this what you meant by the way you used to do cartridge >> pleats?) I'm looking lovingly at my gown as I type. >> >> --Ruth Anne Baumgartner >> scholar gypsy and amateur costumer > > I don't understand how they can be cartridge pleats and be sewn between two > layers of fabric, if you sew it between layers of fabric then they have to > be flattened and therefore are not cartridge pleats but box pleats (or > possibly knife pleats if you push the pleat to the side rather than > squashing it down in the middle) because it's been squashed flat, cartridge > pleats can't be squashed flat or they're not cartridge pleats anymore. > Elizabeth > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole > Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia > ewalpole@austar.net.au > > People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun > is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if > there is light from within. > Elizabeth Kubler-Ross > > The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added > to the ages of other women. > Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 30 13:44:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4UHi8RM010979 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 13:44:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UHhbNX028253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 30 May 2004 11:43:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UHhYVV060052; Sun, 30 May 2004 11:43:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UHhXVV060040 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 11:43:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0470.dialsprint.net ([63.186.145.216]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BUULM-0008PW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 30 May 2004 13:43:32 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:44:16 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: clothing and sunburn From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A sociology prof of mine claimed that fashions for both paleness and suntans among women of the upper classes were marks of leisure: paleness showed that one didn't have to toil in the fields for a living; and then later, once the majority of the work force moved into factories and offices, tans meant one didn't have to toil indoors for a living but could loll about in the sun (he didn't explain how the rich would then be differentiated from the farm laborers, but maybe the all-over tan--as opposed to overall lines, ha ha?--would signify the loller?). I have never attempted to verify his comments, but sounds plausible, no? at least along the same lines as the fat-burgher theory, look-at-me-I-can-afford-to-stuff-myself. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer on 5/29/04 10:39 AM, Gail & Scott Finke at gailscott@eos.net wrote: > > Actually, I think we have the Bohemians to thank for suntanning. They were a > movement in the late 1800s, I think -- or maybe it was the early 1900s. > Anyway, they lived like gypsies and got sun tans on purpose. Lots of > intellectuals liked to hang around and camp with them for weekends, etc. > They would come back with suntans, which they could show off to their > fashionably pale friends as evidence of their brush with the wild side. The > Bohemians wore peasant clothes and scarves and flashy jewelry, let their > hair down (the women), had reputedly loose morals, were very artsy, and > lived on very little money (which they scorned). Sort of like hippies, who > were actually throw-backs to the Bohemians. I read a very good book on them, > but I don't remember the title. It was probably "The Bohemians," come to > think of it. > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 30 15:36:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4UJaJRM011498 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 15:36:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UJZhNX003472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 30 May 2004 13:35:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UJZdVV007183; Sun, 30 May 2004 13:35:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UJZcVW007172 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 13:35:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-87.sonic.net [209.148.112.87]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4UJZZkm020022 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 12:35:37 -0700 Message-ID: <40BA38A0.7060803@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 12:40:16 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands References: <20040530173449.57319.qmail@web80510.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040530173449.57319.qmail@web80510.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I often sandwich cartridge pleats on Victorian skirts, and have often seen this on original skirts and sleeves. If you shove the skirt top between the turned-under seam allowances of the waistband, and hand whipstitch the pleats to the band on both the inside and the outside, the pleats don't flatten at all. The band has to be long enough for the extra amount the bulk of the pleats will take up. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > >The top of a graduation gown IS "cartridge pleated," AND "sandwiched between two layers." The sleeve cap (a gigantic thing) is cartridge pleated just like the top of a cartridge-pleated skirt. The "fashion fabric" part of the yoke is then stitched to the top of each pleat. The "lining fabric" part of the yoke is stitched to the bottom of each pleat, creating a sandwich with the pleats as the filling. I think the key is that the yoke pieces are not stitched to the very edge of the pleats, but about 1/8" in. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 30 15:56:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4UJuRRM011576 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 15:56:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UJtoNX004471 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 30 May 2004 13:55:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UJthVV015157; Sun, 30 May 2004 13:55:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.NET [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UJtfVV015146 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 13:55:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0166.dialsprint.net ([63.186.144.166]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BUWPD-0007x2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 30 May 2004 15:55:40 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 15:56:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: cartridge pleating and skirt waistbands From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <40BA38A0.7060803@lavoltapress.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've taken another look at the graduation gown. On the outside the pleats (top of pleat) are stitched to the yoke quite close to the beginning of the pleat; on the lining side the pleats are stitched to the lining (bottom of pleat) where the pleat ends: that is, the yoke lining is a deeper piece than the yoke proper. Since the pleats are about 1-1/2" long, that means the lining extends 1-1/2" into the actual sleeve (or into the body of the gown). (yoke) _____________ (pleats) - - - - - - -------(unpleated fabric) (lining)________________________ (does that illustration make any sense? it's looking along the yoke edge. Looking perpendicular to the yoke edge, yoke, pleats, and lining look like this.... ________ /\/\/\/\ ________ but then you lose the picture of how the yoke and lining extend on the pleat.) --Ruth Anne Baumgartner on 5/30/04 3:40 PM, Lavolta Press at fran@lavoltapress.com wrote: > I often sandwich cartridge pleats on Victorian skirts, and have often > seen this on original skirts and sleeves. If you shove the skirt top > between the turned-under seam allowances of the waistband, and hand > whipstitch the pleats to the band on both the inside and the outside, > the pleats don't flatten at all. The band has to be long enough for the > extra amount the bulk of the pleats will take up. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > >> >> The top of a graduation gown IS "cartridge pleated," AND "sandwiched between >> two layers." The sleeve cap (a gigantic thing) is cartridge pleated just like >> the top of a cartridge-pleated skirt. The "fashion fabric" part of the yoke >> is then stitched to the top of each pleat. The "lining fabric" part of the >> yoke is stitched to the bottom of each pleat, creating a sandwich with the >> pleats as the filling. I think the key is that the yoke pieces are not >> stitched to the very edge of the pleats, but about 1/8" in. >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 30 16:00:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4UK0gRM011597 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 16:00:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UJwtNX004591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 30 May 2004 13:58:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UJwtVV016304; Sun, 30 May 2004 13:58:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UJwqVW016280 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 13:58:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4UJxuHN005244 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 16:00:02 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040530125559.00b774f8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 12:58:43 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: clothing and sunburn In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I spent part of my childhood on farms in Minnesota. *Nobody* would confuse the tan lines of the farmers and their families with those acquired by wearing skimpy clothes while lolling in the sun . I assume that the situation is the same today as it was 50 years ago, except that the smart farmers today use sunscreen. Katie At 01:44 PM 5/30/2004 -0400, you wrote: >A sociology prof of mine claimed that fashions for both paleness and suntans >among women of the upper classes were marks of leisure: paleness showed that >one didn't have to toil in the fields for a living; and then later, once the >majority of the work force moved into factories and offices, tans meant one >didn't have to toil indoors for a living but could loll about in the sun (he >didn't explain how the rich would then be differentiated from the farm >laborers, but maybe the all-over tan--as opposed to overall lines, ha >ha?--would signify the loller?). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 30 19:08:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4UN8lRM012428 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 19:08:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UN61NX012836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 30 May 2004 17:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UN5hVV092516; Sun, 30 May 2004 17:05:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4UN5cVV092473 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 17:05:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF23728B7F for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 18:05:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p380.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.126]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 64FAAC49C for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 18:05:37 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: clothing and sunburn Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 18:06:04 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040530125559.00b774f8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is now a new medical recommendation for people. People seem to be low on Vitamin D so it is recommended to get in the sun for about 2 minutes without sunscreen. This is recommended for those who tend to stay indoors a lot. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 30 22:42:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4V2gnRM013100 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 22:42:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4V2epNX023928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 30 May 2004 20:40:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4V2eTVV001497; Sun, 30 May 2004 20:40:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.dandy.net (smtp.dandy.net [66.159.110.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4V2eRVW001465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 20:40:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net ([209.128.250.184]) by smtp.dandy.net for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 30 May 2004 22:43:20 -0400 Message-ID: <40BA9B14.90704@dandy.net> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:40:20 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Tornadoes and Colonial House References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040526000509.02d55928@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040526000509.02d55928@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. I have met Ramona on a few occasions, and she and some other folks came down a few years ago to an event we were doing. We had a long discussion about European and Native herbal medicine (I do a program as a 17th cent. Barber-Surgeon and my wife as a Midwife). She is one tough lady, but someone you can respect even with her very strong beliefs. She has a fount of knowledge about the period, even regarding the Europeans, and is a regular contact for archaeologists when they discover her people's sites, for a number of reasons. This, among other of my reasons, is why I suspect that they had their act together regarding the Wampanoag clothing. Mike T. > > > It was the Mashpee, as I read under the name titles. I rather liked > the Elder, Ramona. She was very wise, far sighted, and in modern > terms... she rocked! > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 02:48:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4V6m4RM002287 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 02:48:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4V6gUNX005218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 00:42:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4V6gHVV096093; Mon, 31 May 2004 00:42:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4V6gEVV095995 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 00:42:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.233]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i4V6fujX018402 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 16:42:00 +1000 Message-ID: <000101c446da$61c48360$e990d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200405291806.21204.mplumb@wideopenwest.com> <40B90A73.73C33427@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Has Joanne Fabrics really sunk this low? Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:13:45 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Well all, I've heard your reports about how Joanne Fabrics only hire > > part-timers who know little or nothing about sewing, and today confirmed it. > > > > I was taking advantage of the 99 cent Simplicity pattern sale, and the > > checkout girl asked, "Do you sew your own clothes?", in wonderment. I > > replied yes, and she said, "That's cool". > > > > Hubby found it funny, but I thought it was too sad to be funny. > > Michelle I don't get it, I mean what did she think people went into a fabric store for? That's not just lack of knowledge about fabrics etc, that's a complete lack of intelligence. Then again maybe she was just having one of those blonde days, or she had just encountered a huge block of quilters/ craft types and was relieved to find somebody who did something different. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added to the ages of other women. Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 07:16:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4VBGkRM009299 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 07:16:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VBElNX015044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 05:14:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VBEbVV091314; Mon, 31 May 2004 05:14:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.70]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VBEDVV091026 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 05:14:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0HYK00K4OSI1ER@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 31 May 2004 07:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 07:13:59 -0400 From: "J.A.Urbik" Subject: Re: Spam: [h-cost] Fitted Cotehardie Web Pages In-reply-to: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E75A6366@oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <40BB1377.3080007@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) References: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E75A6366@oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, this was the page that i am looking for. I have found a new friend who moved here a few months ago from New Zeland and used to have a several buisnesses doing tailoring and draperies so i have actually found a sucker...uhm...helper, who knows enough about sewing and the lines that i am looking for to pin the frecking pattern on me. I had previously looked at the site and said WAY cool, but i can't do it. But now i can....te-he, te-he, te-he! Jordana By the way, abnyone who wrote to me about the whale--it is still under tons of sand, we are lookig at sometime over summer digging it up(with a crew) and butchering it for the bone stuchtre for the school. If the baleen is still good( which the whale people say it should be... i will divvy out my share then.) Lena Strid wrote: > http:www.cottesimple.com? There may be more. > > /Lena > > -----Original Message----- > From: J.A.Urbik [mailto:jaurbik@optonline.net] > Sent: 28 May 2004 13:59 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Spam: [h-cost] Fitted Cotehardie Web Pages > > > Heya all > > A while ago there were several long discussions on coteharies. Several > people also posed some intrested sites with step by step picture > dicrections for draping on on a body.... anyone happen to rember the > address of those sites? > > Jordana > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > ================================================= > Margaret Gowen & Co. Ltd. > Archaeological Consultants & Project Managers > 2 Killiney View Tel: 01-2300433 > Albert Road Lower Fax: 01-2300865 > Glenageary e-mail: archaeology@mglarc.com > Co. Dublin website: http://www.mglarc.com > ================================================= > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > This email is private and confidential and may contain > legally privileged information. If you are not named > above as an addressee it may be unlawful for you to > read, copy, distribute, disclose or otherwise use the > information in this email. If you are not the intended > recipient of this email please contact our systems > administrator. Thank you. > > NOTE > Any views or opinions presented are solely those of > the author and do not necessarily represent those of > the company or its associated companies unless > otherwise specifically stated. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 10:33:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4VEXaRM010233 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 10:33:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VEWtNX022541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 08:32:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VEWkVV062836; Mon, 31 May 2004 08:32:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.NET [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VEWiVV062826 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 08:32:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0066.dialsprint.net ([63.186.144.66]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BUnqF-00026S-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 31 May 2004 10:32:43 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 10:33:26 -0400 From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040530125559.00b774f8@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Request for emergency assistance X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To this knowledgeable and helpful list: I've been preparing to direct The Merry Wives of Windsor in July, and everything for sets and costumes was in place. And then only 4 of the expected 20 males showed up at auditions. We have had to change the play and, considering the talent available to us and our previous experience with Restoration comedy, have chosen Moliere's TARTUFFE. What's scary about this is that the scheduled opening date is July 2. Two years ago I did a production of The Country Wife and believe many of those costumes can be adapted for Tartuffe. But our set design was very particular to The Country Wife--its various locations, the set-changing limitations of our stage, our teensy budget ($1700 is this theater's budget for a whole production, can you believe). Moliere liked a fancy stage, and so would we, especially as we will present all our action in one setting. What my set designer would really appreciate is a painting of an upper-bourgeois interior--drawing room, preferably, or some other public domestic room. It can have people in it if necessary ;}. And what I, as both director and costumes mistress, would appreciate is a few images of male and female French petits-bourgeoises in day dress. I've found an appropriate Bailiff and Royal Police Officer, so my fears for those two specific costumes are allayed. I'd do my own research if I had more time, but this is really a breathless situation, and Tartuffe will be my first French play (in English translation of course--I'm in Connecticut community theater!--but we really want a French feel) so I don't have research already done into French styles of this period. Ah--what period! 1662 was Moliere's first version; 1669 was the triumphant 5-act production. So 1660s. If anyone can point me to some good illustrations/paintings I would be enormously grateful and hugely relieved. Thanks in advance! Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 11:30:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4VFU8RM010502 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 11:30:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VFSHNX025306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 09:28:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VFSDVV084823; Mon, 31 May 2004 09:28:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41309.mail.yahoo.com (web41309.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4VFSBVV084779 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 09:28:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aureliarufinia@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040531152806.35328.qmail@web41309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [165.121.145.191] by web41309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 31 May 2004 08:28:06 PDT Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 08:28:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Aurelia Rufinia To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405301801.i4UI1SVX067809@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Has Joanne Fabrics really sunk this low? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Speaking as a former full-time, they-sorta-tossed-me-a-bone as far as benifits go assistant manager... JoAnn Fabrics treats their full-time people like crap. I did work 40 hours a week, and had to work for six months before I got benefits, and the benefits weren't that good. As it was, my benefits came into force a few months later. (My store mamanger was a moron.) I was also paid just over minimum wage, and they couldn't seem to understand why I couldn't afford to drive a car. I sew (historical and non), I learned to quilt and could BS my way through several other crafts. My manager did ask about sewing and crafting skill ion ther interview. She cared about it. The corporate end doesn't give a rats behind about anything other than money. Which is why I don't feel bad at all about giving them only a few days notice when I got another job. Aurelia > > Having gone through the application process there, I > can tell you that > the company's primary focus for employees (at least > during the screening > of applicants) is on customer service. They seem to > really prefer people > who are happy, friendly, and helpful over people > with a lot of sewing > knowledge. There was an extensive "psych profile" > type test that I went > through last year when I applied. My sewing > experience didn't seem to > factor into the application. > > I don't remember what the benefits were like, but > most retail operations > like to work people for 30-35 hours, just short of > full-time, so they > don't have to provide a full package. > > I have applied for jobs at high-end couture fabric > shops and been > treated just as 'badly'. One potential employer told > me he had girls > offering to work free just to get the experience, so > why should he pay > me more than minimum wage. > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 11:34:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4VFYdRM010524 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 11:34:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VFY6NX025583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 09:34:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VFY3VV087629; Mon, 31 May 2004 09:34:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts6.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VFY1VV087560 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 09:34:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.70.5.110]) by simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040531153354.SOFC28020.simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 11:33:54 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c44724$b2e0fae0$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Request for emergency assistance Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 11:33:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here is one site I know of with a variety of pictures: http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/index.shtml Hope that helps, Sheridan ----- Original Message ----- From: "ruthanne baumgartner" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 10:33 AM Subject: [h-cost] Request for emergency assistance > To this knowledgeable and helpful list: > > I've been preparing to direct The Merry Wives of Windsor in July, and > everything for sets and costumes was in place. > > And then only 4 of the expected 20 males showed up at auditions. > > We have had to change the play and, considering the talent available to us > and our previous experience with Restoration comedy, have chosen Moliere's > TARTUFFE. > > What's scary about this is that the scheduled opening date is July 2. > > Two years ago I did a production of The Country Wife and believe many of > those costumes can be adapted for Tartuffe. > > But our set design was very particular to The Country Wife--its various > locations, the set-changing limitations of our stage, our teensy budget > ($1700 is this theater's budget for a whole production, can you believe). > > Moliere liked a fancy stage, and so would we, especially as we will present > all our action in one setting. > > What my set designer would really appreciate is a painting of an > upper-bourgeois interior--drawing room, preferably, or some other public > domestic room. It can have people in it if necessary ;}. > > And what I, as both director and costumes mistress, would appreciate is a > few images of male and female French petits-bourgeoises in day dress. I've > found an appropriate Bailiff and Royal Police Officer, so my fears for those > two specific costumes are allayed. > > I'd do my own research if I had more time, but this is really a breathless > situation, and Tartuffe will be my first French play (in English translation > of course--I'm in Connecticut community theater!--but we really want a > French feel) so I don't have research already done into French styles of > this period. > > Ah--what period! 1662 was Moliere's first version; 1669 was the triumphant > 5-act production. So 1660s. > > If anyone can point me to some good illustrations/paintings I would be > enormously grateful and hugely relieved. > > Thanks in advance! > > Ruth Anne Baumgartner > scholar gypsy and amateur costumer > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 11:39:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4VFdIRM010544 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 11:39:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VFckNX025784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 09:38:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VFchVV089959; Mon, 31 May 2004 09:38:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VFcfVV089868 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 09:38:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be95.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.149]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A97045EE055 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 17:38:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002801c44725$595d5f30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: clothing and sunburn Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:38:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes i read that two. And all the muslin women who goes with weals all the time also has need for extra Vitamin D. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 1:06 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: clothing and sunburn > There is now a new medical recommendation for people. People seem to be low > on Vitamin D so it is recommended to get in the sun for about 2 minutes > without sunscreen. This is recommended for those who tend to stay indoors a > lot. > > De > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 11:47:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4VFlKRM010581 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 11:47:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VFkgNX026482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 09:46:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VFkfVV093692; Mon, 31 May 2004 09:46:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.dandy.net (smtp.dandy.net [66.159.110.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VFkcVW093658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 09:46:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net ([209.128.242.37]) by smtp.dandy.net for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 31 May 2004 11:49:31 -0400 Message-ID: <40BB5357.30301@dandy.net> Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 11:46:31 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Request for emergency assistance References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. Ruthanne, the book that you might want to take a look at is "Seventeenth Century Interior Decoration in England, France and Holland" by Peter Thornton 1978 Yale University Press ISBN 0-300-02776-1 Images of petits-bourgoises can be found in "Les petits metiers a Paris au XVIIe siecle" by Charlotte Lacour-Veyranne for the Musee Carnavalet (Paris Musees) 1997 ISBN 2-87900-356-3 ISSN 1258-0716-95 F I got my copy of the interior decoration book from the Phila. Museum of Art gift shop, and my copy of the costume book from Fred Struthers Book on Cloth in California (fsbks@mcn.org or call him 707-964-8662, it is in his current catalog as #399 pg 19 cost $26) ruthanne baumgartner wrote: >To this knowledgeable and helpful list: > >I've been preparing to direct The Merry Wives of Windsor in July, and >everything for sets and costumes was in place. > >And then only 4 of the expected 20 males showed up at auditions. > >We have had to change the play and, considering the talent available to us >and our previous experience with Restoration comedy, have chosen Moliere's >TARTUFFE. > >What's scary about this is that the scheduled opening date is July 2. > >Two years ago I did a production of The Country Wife and believe many of >those costumes can be adapted for Tartuffe. > >But our set design was very particular to The Country Wife--its various >locations, the set-changing limitations of our stage, our teensy budget >($1700 is this theater's budget for a whole production, can you believe). > >Moliere liked a fancy stage, and so would we, especially as we will present >all our action in one setting. > >What my set designer would really appreciate is a painting of an >upper-bourgeois interior--drawing room, preferably, or some other public >domestic room. It can have people in it if necessary ;}. > >And what I, as both director and costumes mistress, would appreciate is a >few images of male and female French petits-bourgeoises in day dress. I've >found an appropriate Bailiff and Royal Police Officer, so my fears for those >two specific costumes are allayed. > >I'd do my own research if I had more time, but this is really a breathless >situation, and Tartuffe will be my first French play (in English translation >of course--I'm in Connecticut community theater!--but we really want a >French feel) so I don't have research already done into French styles of >this period. > >Ah--what period! 1662 was Moliere's first version; 1669 was the triumphant >5-act production. So 1660s. > >If anyone can point me to some good illustrations/paintings I would be >enormously grateful and hugely relieved. > >Thanks in advance! > >Ruth Anne Baumgartner >scholar gypsy and amateur costumer > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 11:50:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4VFofRM010614 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 11:50:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VFmtNX026624 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 09:48:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VFmrVV094764; Mon, 31 May 2004 09:48:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VFlgVV094205 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 09:47:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be95.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.149]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E6EF947FE70 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 17:47:41 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <005b01c44726$a5260c40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Request for emergency assistance Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:47:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Ruth, I can see why you are nervous about this when you are opening july 2.nd I would suggest you to look on Kipars L'age D'or wich has wonderfull resources from the period of Molliere. I envy you a little, because this is one of my favourite periods. http://www.kipar.org/resources/index.html Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "ruthanne baumgartner" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 4:33 PM Subject: [h-cost] Request for emergency assistance > To this knowledgeable and helpful list: > > I've been preparing to direct The Merry Wives of Windsor in July, and > everything for sets and costumes was in place. > > And then only 4 of the expected 20 males showed up at auditions. > > We have had to change the play and, considering the talent available to us > and our previous experience with Restoration comedy, have chosen Moliere's > TARTUFFE. > > What's scary about this is that the scheduled opening date is July 2. > > Two years ago I did a production of The Country Wife and believe many of > those costumes can be adapted for Tartuffe. > > But our set design was very particular to The Country Wife--its various > locations, the set-changing limitations of our stage, our teensy budget > ($1700 is this theater's budget for a whole production, can you believe). > > Moliere liked a fancy stage, and so would we, especially as we will present > all our action in one setting. > > What my set designer would really appreciate is a painting of an > upper-bourgeois interior--drawing room, preferably, or some other public > domestic room. It can have people in it if necessary ;}. > > And what I, as both director and costumes mistress, would appreciate is a > few images of male and female French petits-bourgeoises in day dress. I've > found an appropriate Bailiff and Royal Police Officer, so my fears for those > two specific costumes are allayed. > > I'd do my own research if I had more time, but this is really a breathless > situation, and Tartuffe will be my first French play (in English translation > of course--I'm in Connecticut community theater!--but we really want a > French feel) so I don't have research already done into French styles of > this period. > > Ah--what period! 1662 was Moliere's first version; 1669 was the triumphant > 5-act production. So 1660s. > > If anyone can point me to some good illustrations/paintings I would be > enormously grateful and hugely relieved. > > Thanks in advance! > > Ruth Anne Baumgartner > scholar gypsy and amateur costumer > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 11:51:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4VFpXRM010621 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 11:51:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VFnlNX026698 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 09:49:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VFnlVV095188; Mon, 31 May 2004 09:49:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.NET [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VFnhVV095166 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 09:49:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kerowyn@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.79.192.dial1.stlouis1.level3.net ([4.245.79.192] helo=Dan) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BUp2k-0005Wh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 31 May 2004 11:49:43 -0400 Message-ID: <02d801c44727$842488e0$c04ff504@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.1.20040518002000.02092e30@mail.frys.com> <40AA2930.70903@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] brown and red repro fabrics on clearance Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 10:54:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In St Louis, it's been on sale for $1 off the regulare price. This weekend with the holiday sale it a % off plus 20% off your total sale. Snow fallen on snow, and this evening, the full moon of November Basho ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] brown and red repro fabrics on clearance > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > > How long is the sale? Or is it just discounted? > > It's on clearance, which around here means until it is sold. At a dollar > a yard I don't expect it to stay around too long, maybe a few weeks. > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 12:19:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4VGJ5RM010777 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 12:19:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VGIVNX028446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 10:18:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VGISVV008868; Mon, 31 May 2004 10:18:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VGIRVV008790 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 10:18:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0140.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.80.141]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29FD23192C5 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 18:18:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40BB5ACD.6050309@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 18:18:21 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Work in progres Robe a la Francaise X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I am working on my Robe a la Francaise. Unfortionally I think I made the sleeves at least one inch to short :-( . And I am not totally happy with the hips. Not sure what is wrong. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Robealafrancaise/Robe.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 13:48:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4VHmMRM011217 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 13:48:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VGs0NX000563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 10:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VGrIVV026174; Mon, 31 May 2004 10:53:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VGrGVV026162 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 10:53:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kerowyn@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.244.24.209.dial1.stlouis1.level3.net ([4.244.24.209] helo=Dan) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BUq2F-0000Vx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 31 May 2004 12:53:16 -0400 Message-ID: <003101c44730$65276760$d118f404@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200405291806.21204.mplumb@wideopenwest.com><000701c44607$8ebfdaf0$722e2104@brandyscomp> <40BA0F8B.1090502@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Has Joanne Fabrics really sunk this low? Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 11:57:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hancock's is just as bad. I work at our local store part-time for the past 7 years.(eeek) The manager's a good guy and he' been with them over twenty five. Yes, customer service is an issue, but, the average? customer likes to have someone with a minimum of knowledge available for those how do I do this kind of question. Sometimes the first question a customer ask is, do you sew? We have highschool/college students and a few older ladies, mayself included. The owners/company seem to think we work there for the love of it. For myself its a second job amd it helps pay for my fabric addiction. Okay, back top lurking now. Genie Snow fallen on snow, and this evening, the full moon of November Basho ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Has Joanne Fabrics really sunk this low? > Brandy Deming wrote: > > > what do you expect for minimum wage and no benefits? > > > > > > > >>Well all, I've heard your reports about how Joanne Fabrics only hire > >>part-timers who know little or nothing about sewing, and today confirmed > > > > it. > > > > Having gone through the application process there, I can tell you that > the company's primary focus for employees (at least during the screening > of applicants) is on customer service. They seem to really prefer people > who are happy, friendly, and helpful over people with a lot of sewing > knowledge. There was an extensive "psych profile" type test that I went > through last year when I applied. My sewing experience didn't seem to > factor into the application. > > I don't remember what the benefits were like, but most retail operations > like to work people for 30-35 hours, just short of full-time, so they > don't have to provide a full package. > > I have applied for jobs at high-end couture fabric shops and been > treated just as 'badly'. One potential employer told me he had girls > offering to work free just to get the experience, so why should he pay > me more than minimum wage. > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 13:56:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4VHugRM011316 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 13:56:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VHu3NX004553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 11:56:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VHtiVV055647; Mon, 31 May 2004 11:55:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from obsidian.spiritone.com (obsidian.spiritone.com [216.99.193.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VHtfVW055607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 11:55:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by obsidian.spiritone.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4VHtc2Q002015 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 10:55:39 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Has Joanne Fabrics really sunk this low? Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 11:00:54 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <000101c446da$61c48360$e990d6cb@ewalpole> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Considering that the main thrust of the JoAnns in this area is crafts and "stuff" to make dust catchers with, I'm not as surprised as I might be. The fabric they carry seems to cater to the quilting and "costuming" crowd. The idea that you would spend money and Make clothing you could wear every day may be a new one for her. Much of my mundane wear is cheaper than I can make it - if you take my time at my current work rate into account. Of course that doesn't really quite work because I've just spent 6 hours shortening hems on pants and sleeves so that the "ready made" will actually fit! Do they do Home Economics and sewing any more? Regina > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Elizabeth Walpole > Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 8:14 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Has Joanne Fabrics really sunk this low? > > > > > Well all, I've heard your reports about how Joanne Fabrics only hire > > > part-timers who know little or nothing about sewing, and > today confirmed > it. > > > > > > I was taking advantage of the 99 cent Simplicity pattern sale, and the > > > checkout girl asked, "Do you sew your own clothes?", in wonderment. I > > > replied yes, and she said, "That's cool". > > > > > > Hubby found it funny, but I thought it was too sad to be funny. > > > Michelle > > I don't get it, I mean what did she think people went into a fabric store > for? That's not just lack of knowledge about fabrics etc, that's > a complete > lack of intelligence. Then again maybe she was just having one of those > blonde days, or she had just encountered a huge block of quilters/ craft > types and was relieved to find somebody who did something different. > Elizabeth > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 14:20:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4VIKDRM011443 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 14:20:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VIINNX006028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 12:18:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VIILVV067000; Mon, 31 May 2004 12:18:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VIIHVV066929 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 12:18:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be95.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.149]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 78C4226288D for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 20:18:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002901c4473b$af8bbdf0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <40BB5ACD.6050309@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Work in progres Robe a la Francaise Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 20:18:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Deredere i think you made your bodice much two short. This is why the pleats dont correspondent with your pocket hoops. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 6:18 PM Subject: [h-cost] Work in progres Robe a la Francaise > Hi, > > I am working on my Robe a la Francaise. > Unfortionally I think I made the sleeves at least one inch to short :-( . > And I am not totally happy with the hips. > Not sure what is wrong. > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Robealafrancaise/Robe.html > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 14:47:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4VIl9RM011576 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 14:47:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VIjVNX007612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 12:45:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VIjSVV080808; Mon, 31 May 2004 12:45:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.primushost.com (smtp1.primushost.com [209.58.220.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VIjPVW080752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 12:45:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1BUrmg-0001Xl-76; Mon, 31 May 2004 14:45:18 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 1BUrWe-0005fk-00; Mon, 31 May 2004 14:28:44 -0400 Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 14:28:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200405252122.46674.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Van Helsing red dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is a print for sale on ebay from 1889 that has a red evening dress that reminds me a lot of the Van Helsing red dress. Just change the bird on the shoulder to red sticky-uppy feathers.... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10167&item=3726861721&rd=1 Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 15:21:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4VJL5RM011787 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 15:21:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VJI0NX010036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 13:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VJHrVV097028; Mon, 31 May 2004 13:17:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.dandy.net (smtp.dandy.net [66.159.110.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VJHqVW096962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 13:17:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from dandy.net ([209.128.248.16]) by smtp.dandy.net for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 31 May 2004 15:20:43 -0400 Message-ID: <40BB84D6.9040900@dandy.net> Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 15:17:42 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bodice question, 16thC corsets References: <20040527212510.75930.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040527212510.75930.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. Heck, in Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince there is a mention of a "corset", but I'm guessing that it is more a translation problem from Medieval French, where perhaps the author or translator didn't have a comparible word, so they went with "corset". I'll find the cite when I get my copy back (it is on loan *grumble-grumble*). Once again, we might be dealing with the difference between a modern (19th Cent+) usage of a word versus the use in the period in question. This is in no way meant to doubt that there was the creation of a foundation garment or parts of the foundation of an extant garment that evolved into the "corset" or "paire of bodies". Just my two cents. If anyone else can find the cite, IIRC it was in the first third of the book. Cheers, Mike T. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 15:48:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4VJmYRM011901 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 15:48:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VJltNX011667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 13:47:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VJlqVV011106; Mon, 31 May 2004 13:47:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VJloVV011074 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 13:47:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from pcez.com (www-data@dns1.pcez.com [209.102.124.11]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id MAA25093 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 12:49:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host www-data@dns1.pcez.com [209.102.124.11] claimed to be pcez.com From: "roscelin" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 19:47:51 GMT X-Mailer: DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 2.3b, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <40bb8be7.1e41.0@pcez.com> X-User-Info: 209.102.126.93 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Looking for... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings one and all, Could someone give me Robin's webpage about the Gothic Fitted dress? My other hard-drive crashed and I lost all of my bookmarks and webpages. Thanks! Roscelin ------------------- http://www.pcez.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 17:16:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4VLGaRM012323 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 17:16:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VLETNX016981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 15:14:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VLEJVV053854; Mon, 31 May 2004 15:14:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VLEGVV053732 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 15:14:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0140.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.80.141]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3F8FBFC8E for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 23:14:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40BBA01E.2090809@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 23:14:06 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Work in progres Robe a la Francaise References: <40BB5ACD.6050309@kabelfoon.nl> <002901c4473b$af8bbdf0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mmmm.. I am affraid your right since the sleeves are also too short.. I forget that I am taller than average.. I probably have to make new front bodice pieces.. and new sleeves. Thanks! Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hi, >Deredere i think you made your bodice much two short. >This is why the pleats dont correspondent with your pocket hoops. > >Bjarne > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Deredere Galbraith" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 6:18 PM >Subject: [h-cost] Work in progres Robe a la Francaise > > > > >>Hi, >> >>I am working on my Robe a la Francaise. >>Unfortionally I think I made the sleeves at least one inch to short :-( . >>And I am not totally happy with the hips. >>Not sure what is wrong. >>http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Robealafrancaise/Robe.html >> >>Greetings, >> Deredere >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 17:41:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4VLfhRM012482 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 17:41:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VLeINX018570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 15:40:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4VLeHVV066936; Mon, 31 May 2004 15:40:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web80504.mail.yahoo.com (web80504.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i4VLdGVV066291 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 15:39:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dme_maud@pacbell.net) Message-ID: <20040531213856.19291.qmail@web80504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.202.175.150] by web80504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 31 May 2004 14:38:56 PDT Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 14:38:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Jacobson To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200405311801.i4VI19VW058549@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Has JoAnn's really sunk this low? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In California, not much, and in Vallejo, not at all. Correction: as little as possible. The "Home Ec" teacher at the high school I teach at teaches only cooking, and the school doesn't even own any sewing machines any more. The only high school that had sewing machines had a Home Ec teacher that hated sewing and hated teaching it, so I don't think it's offered any more. This has had an effect on our local community college--they no longer offer a Fashion Design and Merchandising major, as not enough students signed up to make the program viable. There's only 1 high school in all of Solano County that teaches costume design (and it's in Vacaville). Dawn Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 31 22:09:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i5129DRM014407 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 22:09:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i5127SNX002867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 20:07:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i5127HVV089659; Mon, 31 May 2004 20:07:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i5127EVW089607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 20:07:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@minx.thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i512Bhfc007990 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 22:11:43 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i512BhZY007988 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 31 May 2004 22:11:43 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Has Joanne Fabrics really sunk this low? Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 22:11:42 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <200405291806.21204.mplumb@wideopenwest.com> <40B90A73.73C33427@floodcity.net> <000101c446da$61c48360$e990d6cb@ewalpole> In-Reply-To: <000101c446da$61c48360$e990d6cb@ewalpole> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405312211.42671.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 29 May 2004 11:13 pm, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > > > Well all, I've heard your reports about how Joanne Fabrics only hire > > > part-timers who know little or nothing about sewing, and today > > > confirmed > > it. > > > > I was taking advantage of the 99 cent Simplicity pattern sale, and the > > > checkout girl asked, "Do you sew your own clothes?", in wonderment. I > > > replied yes, and she said, "That's cool". > > > > > > Hubby found it funny, but I thought it was too sad to be funny. Don't assume she's a moron. A lot of the Jo-Ann's stuff in my area is geared to quilters. As Elizabeth suggested, she may have been surprised to see somebody buying fabric for clothing rather than a quilt. -- Cathy Raymond "A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies." -Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 1 01:17:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i515HfRM014972 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2004 01:17:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i515EwNX013690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 31 May 2004 23:14:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i515ElVV076661; Mon, 31 May 2004 23:14:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i515EhVV076618 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 23:14:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05691 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2004 00:17:01 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 00:17:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for... In-Reply-To: <40bb8be7.1e41.0@pcez.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 31 May 2004, roscelin wrote: > Could someone give me Robin's webpage about the Gothic Fitted > dress? My other hard-drive crashed and I lost all of my bookmarks and > webpages. Thanks! Hi, Roscelin. (Yes, I've been quiet the last week or so -- doing an art show the last four days, and coping with a basement flood before that.) My not-quite-a-webpage is at: http://www.netherton.net/robin ...where you'll find a FAQ I've used as a workshop handout, and also a collection of posts to h-cost on the GFD. These aren't instructions, but they're reasonable guidance to someone who already has some basic knowledge and a sense of the look they're aming for. This page may also be useful to the person who posted looking for cotehardie fitting instructions. Tasha's page at cottesimple is indeed the one with the pictures, but she also links back to my information, from which she developed much of her initial understanding of the style. I should also note that although Tasha has on her site an attempt at a GFD using my preferred variation (with a straight-front seam), it was her first try at that method and she didn't have as much success with that as with her own method (which she'd done many times before). I know that some people have come away from her comparison of the two methods believing that it showed that Tasha's curved-front seam was "better," but Tasha will be the first to tell you that it only showed that she was more experienced with her own method! The two approaches actually involve slightly different ways of addressing the rest of the body, something that can't be handled by just by changing the front seam alone. I fully expect that each individual who works on this fashion will develop a slightly different method that works for him/her, even when working from the same basic concepts. The difference between Tasha's and my approaches are minor, as we agree on the basic concepts, and the product is very similar. Here are the differences in our approaches I can remember offhand: -- I prefer the straight-front seam to minimize distortion on the lacing edge, to provide more elevation for the bust, and to increase support and stability for large-busted women. (I do use a curve on very small-busted women, to create additional protrusion, but it's not the same curve Tasha uses, and it has a different effect.) -- I do my fittings over a chemise, the way the dress will be worn. -- I work in incremental steps, by pinning on the body, removing the dress, averaging the pinned seams to eliminate torque and to even out the pieces side-to-side, and then sewing truer seams while the dress is off the body. Then repeat as needed until the right degree of fit is reached. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 1 07:59:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i51BxFRM009976 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2004 07:59:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i51BuaNX010102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jun 2004 05:56:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i51BuWVV054992; Tue, 1 Jun 2004 05:56:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i51BXRVV040702 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2004 05:33:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0HYM003J3O3P2D@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 Jun 2004 07:33:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 07:34:12 -0400 From: "J.A.Urbik" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for... In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <40BC69B4.7070002@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) References: X-DCC-SINECTIS-Metrics: net.indra.com 1114; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank your for your posts. I always find anything you say, like many others on this list, helpful and useful. On looking over your stuff, I found that I have a question. You mention fitting the dress on over a "properly fitted chemise". By that would the chemise that I wear under my flemish market women dress (made from Margo Anderson's Patterns for Elizabethan Dress) be the appropriate type of chemise? It is basically a close fitting t-tunic. Robin Netherton wrote: > On Mon, 31 May 2004, roscelin wrote: > > >> Could someone give me Robin's webpage about the Gothic Fitted >>dress? My other hard-drive crashed and I lost all of my bookmarks and >>webpages. Thanks! > > > Hi, Roscelin. (Yes, I've been quiet the last week or so -- doing an art > show the last four days, and coping with a basement flood before that.) > > My not-quite-a-webpage is at: > > http://www.netherton.net/robin > > ...where you'll find a FAQ I've used as a workshop handout, and also a > collection of posts to h-cost on the GFD. > > These aren't instructions, but they're reasonable guidance to someone who > already has some basic knowledge and a sense of the look they're aming > for. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 1 09:03:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i51D3cRM010185 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:03:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i51D1jNX013324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jun 2004 07:01:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i51D1gVV082557; Tue, 1 Jun 2004 07:01:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i51D1dVV082247 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2004 07:01:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i51D10T04553.; Tue, 1 Jun 2004 14:01:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 01 Jun 2004 14:01:00 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 14:00:47 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: clothing and sunburn Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, that's the version I've always heard. Before the advent of cheap package holidays, if a Northern European had a suntan it meant they were rich and leisured enough to spend a few weeks on the Mediterranean. >>> ruthanneb@mindspring.com 5/30/04 6:44:16 PM >>> A sociology prof of mine claimed that fashions for both paleness and suntans among women of the upper classes were marks of leisure: paleness showed that one didn't have to toil in the fields for a living; and then later, once the majority of the work force moved into factories and offices, tans meant one didn't have to toil indoors for a living but could loll about in the sun (he didn't explain how the rich would then be differentiated from the farm laborers, but maybe the all-over tan--as opposed to overall lines, ha ha?--would signify the loller?). Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 1 09:09:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i51D93RM010217 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:09:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i51D7DNX013576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Jun 2004 07:07:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i51D7BVV085037; Tue, 1 Jun 2004 07:07:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i51D77VV084990 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2004 07:07:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com) Received: from acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com ([81.109.62.241]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040516185601.BBZW8668.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@acer-zncxxrqauo.ntlworld.com> for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 19:56:01 +0100 Message-Id: <6.0.0.14.0.20040516195344.02458438@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.14 (Beta) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:56:19 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynne Connolly Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Proposal In-Reply-To: <01c901c43476$003e88a0$97725651@bella> References: <6.0.0.14.0.20040506161750.02375d78@pop.ntlworld.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-5FA66933; boundary="=======232010F3=======" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040503, clamav-milter version 0.70u X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======232010F3======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-5FA66933; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just thought I'd show you what I do with all my costume info! The dolls are doll's house size, men 6 inches and women about 5 1/2 inches. Here's the results of the workshop I attended yesterday. I dressed the man doll, a handsome fellow, I hope you'll agree! http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/The%20Proposal.htm Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT The latest Richard and Rose adventure, HARLEY STREET, is here! http://www.novelbooksinc.com/>Novelbooks Inc. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lynneconnolly/ --=======232010F3======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======232010F3=======--